Skip to content

Pith 430: Lying for Christ

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/14

Lying for Christ: Missional work to those without options is coercion; it’s a lie of compassion for conversion.

See “Coercion”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 428: Christian ‘Love’

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/14

Christian ‘Love’: It’s not their love, but the impotence of their love preventing book burnings, torture, and crucifixions.

See “History”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 427: Mental Age

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/14

Mental Age: Correlation between education and cognitive ability exists; & the former and mental age.

See “Education estimates mental age”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 426: Horse People

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

Horse People: Why are so many alcoholics, heavy drinkers, drug misusers, and/or religious literalists?

See “Unfortunate Connected Dots”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 425: Time

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

Time: Arrow of Time as objectively invariant and thermodynamical; time as subjective and conditionally variant.

See “Birelation”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 424: White Feminism

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

White Feminism: Undermining, exploiting women of colour’s efforts, centring only their voices; upper-class politics.

See “Betrayal”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 423: Atheism

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

Atheism: A natural consequence of the study of world religions; Agnosticism comes from scientific method, naturally.

See “Naturalism”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 422: Cool breeze

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

Cool breeze: I want to sip the Spring Sunshine, touch the wind, sense Nature’s rhythms; an eternal hand-to-hand off.

See “Cyclicality”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 421: Christianity

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

Christianity: The primary vehicle of modern period colonialism; therefore, a political system and tool of the oppressors.

See “Heritage”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 420: Informational Cosmos

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

Informational Cosmos: Unary base data, multinary generativity; a qualitative n-dimensional experiential manifold in recursion.

See “Us”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 419: Autosoteriology

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

Autosoteriology: If the saving is supernatural, then it’s outside Nature; so, outside claims of the real.

See “Thus, we’re on our own”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 418: Christianity as Nihilism

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

Christianity as Nihilism: A rejection of the natural in favour of phantasy and fantasies; humanity’s decadent declination.

See “Dream”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 417: Grand Scheme

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

Grand Scheme: The Grand Scheme is there is no grand scheme; no Heaven, no Hell, no Saviour, mere cosmogenic indifferentism.

See “Null”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 416: Blue

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

Blue: Hearts don’t sing only the colour blue; they paint all sorts of melodies.

See “Sing along a song in time on time”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 415: A Sapphire Symphony on Ice

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

A Sapphire Symphony on Ice: Bubble puffs seasoned emerald glow; green grime slime settles under an invisible ocean.

See “Springtime”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 414: White Women’s Tears

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

White Women’s Tears: Historic vehicles for violence against people of colour; is there a demarcation between then and now?

See “No”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 413: Bellow Below

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

Bellow Below: Rationed ratiocination, bubbly underflow of feelings in words; emotions roar in letters’ cobblestone cracks.

See “Growth”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 412: Auditory Identity

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

Auditory Identity: Memory, silence, sound, silence; old voices in mind as unctions, newer interpellated by hushes.

See “In my ear, Dear”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 411: Sunset, Beckoning

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

Sunset, Beckoning: A sweet birdsong for the morning of Spring and dirge for the mourning of Winter; cycles and cycles.

See “Spectrum”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 410: Soft & Hard

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

Soft & Hard: The soft bend & flex, & the hard stand & break; the soft pulse & sway, & the hard stand & break.

See “Soft’s Superiority”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 409: Synchronism

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

Synchronism: Time in time on temporal layover overlayed temporarily; space on space on spatial overplayed play over eternity.

See “SIM”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 408: Three Decades, Silenced

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

Three Decades, Silenced: What it is, to know 30 years of volume in chasm, void; what is in memoriam?

See “In now from past for future”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 407: Honest in Goodness

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

Honest in Goodness: Acts of magnanimity, of charity, best served hidden, unbidden; Good pursued in quiet action.

See “Honest to goodness”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 406: Hopi in Navajo

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

Hopi in Navajo: States on Native American; decimation & erasion, regeneration; colonial land politics to mental counter-politics.

See “B”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 405: Raw

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

Raw: My sight is clear as flowing spring water, twinkling as cloudless night stars; I bring succour in deliverance.

See “Redemption”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 404: Redemption

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

Redemption: I see the way you look at me; because I am your redemption, again, my curse is sight, but not to say anything.

See “Pierce”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 403: Developmental Cognitive Neuroscience

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

Developmental Cognitive Neuroscience: A view of life in process; a systematic analysis of humanity’s quintessentiality.

See “Diamond”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 402: Antipodean

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

Antipodean: Bromides of banalities, trite tropes, on death and life; or not, what sits between antipodes: Life and Death?

See “Mortal”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 401: What Matters

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

What matters: What matters to me now; making sure, I’ve forgiven everyone who has ever hurt me.

See “Virtues”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 400: Librarians

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

Librarians: My single greatest superheroes; my saviours, saints, mystics, sages, gurus, prophets, and muses.

See “Heroes, unsung”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 399: Love and Understanding

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

Love and Understanding: Da Vinci was right; to love something, or hate it, you must first understand it.

See “Yet, you don’t know me”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 398: Show Jumping Life

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

Show Jumping Life: Adolescent socio-politics plus 18th Century British imperial elitism; a metre-sixty in full colour.

See “Why!!!!!”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 397: God and Authority

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

God and Authority: If God cares not for earthly authority, why are you trying to impose on others, coarsely?

See “Universalism”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 396: Specified Atheism

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

Specified Atheism: It can be considered truism for numerous mythologies and gods with modern science; Arc of History.

See “Malevolence”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 395: Life is mostly suffering

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

Life is mostly suffering: The question is what we should do with this fact in our conduct; nothing lasts forever.

See “Life’s troubles”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 394: Sear

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

Sear: My memory comes sealed since, seared on, concealed ’cause of, bound to, on through, directed by, Day One.

See “My curse: Sight”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 393: Soul

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

Soul: Both immaterial and not, if Cosmos is data, if bodied, if time is, it’s an accretive-dissipative data process embodied.

See “I-We”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 392: Jesus Christ

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

Jesus Christ: The only true Christian died on a cross-sect of wood and nail; the rest are frauds.

See “Christianity is modified Judaism”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 391: The Soft Men and the Hard Men

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

The Soft Men and the Hard Men: Do you know the chief difference; answer: health span and lifespan.

See “All in the socialization process”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 390: Interacting, processing

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

Interacting, processing: Dao, interacting — to embody, animate; De, processing — to intake, percipient agent.

See “Cosmos Self-such”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 389: Affectation, Fake

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

Affectation, Fake: Inasmuch as a character is forced, then it is fake; ergo, most Canadians are, more or less, affected.

See “Dao de”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 388: Striding recondite

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

Striding recondite: The best tales tend to fair the worst in clear apprehension; those most mimicking life itself.

See “Didactic Lessons”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 387: Highly Intelligent and Educated Women

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

Highly Intelligent and Educated Women: They make better friends and better partners, by far, in personal experience.

See “Every Metric”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 386: My introduction to equestrianism

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

My introduction to equestrianism: “I got a man fired, so don’t get on my bad side”.

See “Yes, women too”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 385: Caged Bird Singing

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

Caged Bird Singing: The caged bird sings because it dreams, & to escape its own inner voice.

See “Dreamers”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 384: Slant

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

Slant: There is no up and down in spacetime, only in, out, and around; the universe without Cartesian limits.

See “Astronomical bodies”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 383: God and Spirits

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

God and Spirits: The Theity used Man to create alcohol to humble proud men, by revealing their True Self upon imbibement.

See “Possessed”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 382: Language

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

Language: Clarity is the goal, not always crispness of the concept; some ideas are amorphous by nature, others precise.

See “Selection”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 381: Yee-Haw

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

Yee-haw: The hee-haw holy day of Easter; a cowboy’s resurrected Saviour absolution.

See “Langley and Jesus”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 380: A symmetry

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

A symmetry: What is mathematical is geometric is informational is computational is mathematical, is; unary isomorphs.

See “Facetism”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 379: I’ve devoted my life

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

I’ve devoted my life: I’ve committed the entirety of my life to works outlasting it; an interlude.

See “Between eternities”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 378: Alloplastic Defenses

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/05/12

Alloplastic Defenses: Ego-syntonic reaction; an attempt to alter the external rather than character.

See “Defense mechanisms”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Prohibition of Preaching in Buses in Tanzania

Publisher: In-Sight Publishing

Publisher Founding: September 1, 2014

Location: Fort Langley, Township of Langley, British Columbia, Canada

Journal: African Freethinker

Journal Founding: November 1, 2018

Frequency: Once (1) per year

Review Status: Non-Peer-Reviewed

Access: Electronic/Digital & Open Access

Fees: None (Free)

Volume Numbering: 1

Issue Numbering: 1

Web Domain: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com 

Individual Publication Date: May 10, 2023

Issue Publication Date: TBD

Author(s): Isakwisa Amanyisye Lucas Mwakalonge

Author(s) Bio: Lucas is Assistant Editor African Freethinker/in-sightjournal.com (Tanzania), an Advocate of the High Court of Tanzania, a Notary Public Officer and Commissioner for Oaths. Researcher and Writer in Constitutional Law, International Human Rights Law, Information and Communications Technology Law.Also, a Freethinker activist in Tanzania. (E-mail: isamwaka01@gmail.com).

Word Count: 1,550

Image Credit(s): Isakwisa Amanyisye Lucas Mwakalonge

Keywords: born again, choice, Christian, church, government, Isakwisa Amanyisye Lucas Mwakalonge, motor vehicle, preaching, religion, Tanzania, Transport Licensing Act.

*Please see the footnotes and bibliography after the article.*

Prohibition of Preaching in Buses in Tanzania

Isakwisa Amanyisye Lucas Mwakalonge.

Dar es salaam, Tanzania – East Africa.

It is indeed an ambiguity as to whether Tanzania is a secular state as it is enshrined in the constitution or it is a religious state?  This habit of pretending to be a non-religious state but with a lot of double standards of favoring religionism, while the status of secularism is strangled and be left to suffocate every day is growing so fast. Still for the sake of this discussion the essential theme is going to be in the law which is responsible in regulating matters of public transport in the cities and inter-cities which is the Transport Licensing Act, Chapter 317. with its two issued regulations.

In 2017 the government of Tanzania reached a decision to ban all kinds of preaching including the religious ones, business undertakings, political activities or any kind of provisions of entertainments in urban public service vehicles. This was done through the Transport Licensing Act, Cap, 317 under the Transport Licensing (Public Service Vehicles) Regulations, 2017.Specifically Regulation 25(b) (iii). this part of regulation stated this…

No person does business, preaches, conducts political activities or provides entertainment which is contrary to regulation 23(2) (c) in the urban public service vehicle

The Transport Licensing (Public Service Vehicles) Regulations, 2017, defined Public Service Vehicle as a motor vehicle which carries or is intended to carry passengers for hire or reward, whether used or construed solely for that purpose or not, while the term “passenger” is defined as any person who is travelling in a vehicle with valid bus ticket and includes a child. While Regulation, 23(2) (c) stated this…

The entertainment provided in a public service vehicle in the course of a journey comply with norms and culture of Tanzania and with low volume,”

Very unfortunate these cited regulations did not define the term “preaches” but the Cambridge International Dictionary of English, 1995. defines the term preach as speak in church especially a priest in a church or to give a religious speech. Also, the dictionary continues to define the term preach as to try to persuade other people to believe in a particular belief or follow a particular way of life. Thus, a straight meaning of the term preaches is someone’s attempt to persuade somebody to believe something in which the preacher himself or herself believes.

This legal restriction described under regulation 25(b) (iii) got established with an intention of ending a practice of preaching religious sermons and shouting by prayers in buses and other public transport vehicles, which was incontrovertibly becoming a pandemonium that was growing very quick. For instance in urban public service vehicles in the cities like  Dar es salaam  there are a lot of religious preachers especially Christian evangelists, they are also known as  the born again ones mostly are from Pentecostal and Lutheran churches, scrambling among themselves boarding in buses as if they are real  passengers, they wait till the bus starts moving, then they start by introducing their names and their faith…then they start preaching gospel of Jesus Christ by shouting and screaming in buses, they talk news of receiving Jesus as the savior, they conduct prayers  to youths who are desperate looking for jobs since the unemployment rate is high in the nation, pray for success in business, praying for those who are hunting for marriage and husbands to marry them, pray for those who are barren, casting demons and pray for protection from all satanic bondage and  against witches, praying for blessings in general, preaches about heaven and hell. Then at the end when the busses are about to reach the  main station, they ask passengers to contribute tithes to them, mostly they prefer collecting cash to other offerings, but sometimes they also accept other precious gifts which are offered to them, they normally insist that they deserve getting those donations since they are the servants of the living god, after that  then  they quickly get out of the bus, looking for another bus, it is an activity of the whole day and all days of the week, it is like a self-styled employment to them. This became chaos, genuine passengers could no longer enjoy the quietness they used to enjoy before this peril emerged in the urban public service vehicles.

I  got a chance to speak to one of the senior Pastor of Lutheran church who is also a senior lecturer of Christian theology in Tanzania, I asked him why such habit of preaching in public transports in cities was growing so fast? and what was the position of the church on that, he said that he was happy about the  situation of people preaching Christ in urban public services vehicles, he further added that this is part of the Christian ambitions of preaching Christ to the whole world…he said this is what they call a motor vehicle evangelism. It is a new way of spreading Christianity and Christ news to the public.

 In preventing an increase of those unorganized religious preaches in urban public services vehicles the government was pushed to regulate the situation, that is why the state introduced the Transport Licensing (Public Service Vehicles) Regulations,2017. Particularly regulation 25(b) (iii), to abolish these dishonest preaches in public transports, and it was a big relief. Though some people tried to oppose the law with an argument  that, preaching religion in urban public services vehicles loudly, it is part of utilization of  Constitutional rights of freedom of expression which is provided in article 18 of the Constitution of the United Republic of Tanzania,1977, the article reads as follows “every person has a freedom of opinion and expression of his ideas” and enjoying a right of freedom of belief which is  in article 19(1),the article states that Every person has the right to the freedom of conscience, faith and choice in matters of religion, including the freedom to change his religion or faith.”  

Nevertheless, these rights are to be enjoyed subject to obedience of other laws which regulates the modus operandi of enjoying those rights. For instance article 30(1) of the same Constitution, maintains that human rights and freedom which is enshrined in the constitution should not be enjoyed by a person to the extent of causing interference to freedom of other persons or interfere public interest, while article 30(2)a, provides that while enjoying the rights of freedom of conscience, faith and religion as a human and constitutional right then there must be an ensuring measures that…the rights and freedoms of other people or of the interests of the public are not prejudiced by the wrongful exercise of the freedoms and rights of individuals.” Thus article 30(1), and (2)a, of the constitution provides some observations that need be adhered so as to avoid the abuse of the rights of freedom of expression and freedom of some one’s beliefs. These Christian evangelists preachers who shouts in urban public service vehicles cause inconveniences to genuine passengers.

A big surprise was in the year 2020, when the government officially brought the Transport Licensing (Public Service Vehicles) Regulations,2020. (Government Notice No.76 Published on.7/2/2020) made under section 45 of the Transport Licensing Act, Chapter 317.These new regulations revoked the 2017 regulations and have completely removed the part which stated that…

No person does business, preaches, conducts political activities or provides entertainment which is contrary to regulation 23(2) (c) in the urban public service vehicle

This is a legal dilemma, an act of removing the part which restricts unorganized preaching in public transport in cities it is an intolerable decision, it is as if the state is trying to buy cheap popularity from Pentecostal Christians, while forgetting that the state authorities are frustrating the constitutional commitment that Tanzania is a secular state. Why these double standards are being played by the state authorities? Just a piece of advice to the authorities… let that prohibition of preaching in public transport section be brought back in these 2020 regulations, because its removal was an unconstitutional action. These religious influences to state affairs must stop instant. 

It is an undisputable fact that the Transport Licensing (Public Service Vehicles) Regulations, 2017, Regulation 25(b)(iii), was part of government’s efforts to make sure that while  a person is enjoying  constitutional rights of freedom of opinion and expression of ideas and the right to freedom of conscience, faith and choice in matters of religion, including the freedom to change his religion or faith, then these rights are to be utilized  without denying passengers in urban public service vehicles the right to be left free out of noise pollution caused by these unauthorized Christian evangelists who shouts in urban public services vehicles very emotional contrary to the laws. Yet regardless of the presence of those 2017 regulation, still illegal evangelism went on in urban public service vehicles till the moment and bus drivers, conductors and a number of passengers entertains this habit, while law enforcers and responsible authorities were so lenient to enforce the law.it is advised that these religious preaching are to be carried out in their legalized places. Preaching, screaming and shouting in public service vehicles must stop because they cause inconveniences to genuine passengers. 

Bibliography

None

Footnotes

None

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License.

Based on work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen, or the author(s), and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors copyright their material, as well, and may disseminate for their independent purposes.



Governments and Growth

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Publisher: In-Sight Publishing

Publisher Founding: April 1, 2014

Web Domain: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com 

Location: Fort Langley, Township of Langley, British Columbia, Canada

Journal: In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Journal Founding: August 2, 2012

Frequency: Three (3) Times Per Year

Review Status: Non-Peer-Reviewed

Access: Electronic/Digital & Open Access

Fees: None (Free)

Volume Numbering: 11

Issue Numbering: 3

Section: B

Theme Type: Idea

Theme Premise: “Outliers and Outsiders”

Theme Part: 27

Formal Sub-Theme: None.

Individual Publication Date: May 8, 2023

Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2023

Author(s): Sam Vaknin

Author(s) Bio: Sam Vaknin is the author of Malignant Self-love: Narcissism Revisited as well as many other books and ebooks about topics in psychology, relationships, philosophy, economics, international affairs, and award-winning short fiction. He is former Visiting Professor of Psychology, Southern Federal University, Rostov-on-Don, Russia and Professor of Finance and Psychology in SIAS-CIAPS (Commonwealth for International Advanced and Professional Studies). He was the Editor-in-Chief of Global Politician and served as a columnist for Central Europe Review, PopMatters, eBookWeb, and Bellaonline, and as a United Press International (UPI) Senior Business Correspondent. He was the editor of mental health and Central East Europe categories in The Open Directory and Suite101. His YouTube channels garnered 20,000,000 views and 85,000 subscribers. Visit Sam’s Web site: http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com.

Word Count: 3,151

Image Credit: Sam Vaknin

International Standard Serial Number (ISSN): 2369-6885

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citations, after the publication.*

Keywords: capital, financial markets, government, growth, post-Keynsian, private sector, Sam Vaknin, tax.

Governments and Growth

It is a maxim of current economic orthodoxy that governments compete with the private sector on a limited pool of savings. It is considered equally self-evident that the private sector is better, more competent, and more efficient at allocating scarce economic resources and thus at preventing waste. It is therefore thought economically sound to reduce the size of government – i.e., minimize its tax intake and its public borrowing – in order to free resources for the private sector to allocate productively and efficiently.

Yet, both dogmas are far from being universally applicable.

The assumption underlying the first conjecture is that government obligations and corporate lending are perfect substitutes. In other words, once deprived of treasury notes, bills, and bonds – a rational investor is expected to divert her savings to buying stocks or corporate bonds.

It is further anticipated that financial intermediaries – pension funds, banks, mutual funds – will tread similarly. If unable to invest the savings of their depositors in scarce risk-free – i.e., government – securities – they will likely alter their investment preferences and buy equity and debt issued by firms.

Yet, this is expressly untrue. Bond buyers and stock investors are two distinct crowds. Their risk aversion is different. Their investment preferences are disparate. Some of them – e.g., pension funds – are constrained by law as to the composition of their investment portfolios. Once government debt has turned scarce or expensive, bond investors tend to resort to cash. That cash – not equity or corporate debt – is the veritable substitute for risk-free securities is a basic tenet of modern investment portfolio theory.

Moreover, the “perfect substitute” hypothesis assumes the existence of efficient markets and frictionless transmission mechanisms. But this is a conveniently idealized picture which has little to do with grubby reality. Switching from one kind of investment to another incurs – often prohibitive – transaction costs. In many countries, financial intermediaries are dysfunctional or corrupt or both. They are unable to efficiently convert savings to investments – or are wary of doing so.

Furthermore, very few capital and financial markets are closed, self-contained, or self-sufficient units. Governments can and do borrow from foreigners. Most rich world countries – with the exception of Japan – tap “foreign people’s money” for their public borrowing needs. When the US government borrows more, it crowds out the private sector in Japan – not in the USA.

It is universally agreed that governments have at least two critical economic roles. The first is to provide a “level playing field” for all economic players. It is supposed to foster competition, enforce the rule of law and, in particular, property rights, encourage free trade, avoid distorting fiscal incentives and disincentives, and so on. Its second role is to cope with market failures and the provision of public goods. It is expected to step in when markets fail to deliver goods and services, when asset bubbles inflate, or when economic resources are blatantly misallocated.

Yet, there is a third role. In our post-Keynesian world, it is a heresy. It flies in the face of the “Washington Consensus” propagated by the Bretton-Woods institutions and by development banks the world over. It is the government’s obligation to foster growth.

In most countries of the world – definitely in Africa, the Middle East, the bulk of Latin America, central and eastern Europe, and central and east Asia – savings do not translate to investments, either in the form of corporate debt or in the form of corporate equity.

In most countries of the world, institutions do not function, the rule of law and properly rights are not upheld, the banking system is dysfunctional and clogged by bad debts. Rusty monetary transmission mechanisms render monetary policy impotent.

In most countries of the world, there is no entrepreneurial and thriving private sector and the economy is at the mercy of external shocks and fickle business cycles. Only the state can counter these economically detrimental vicissitudes. Often, the sole engine of growth and the exclusive automatic stabilizer is public spending. Not all types of public expenditures have the desired effect. Witness Japan’s pork barrel spending on “infrastructure projects”. But development-related and consumption-enhancing spending is usually beneficial.

To say, in most countries of the world, that “public borrowing is crowding out the private sector” is wrong. It assumes the existence of a formal private sector which can tap the credit and capital markets through functioning financial intermediaries, notably banks and stock exchanges.

Yet, this mental picture is a figment of economic imagination. The bulk of the private sector in these countries is informal. In many of them, there are no credit or capital markets to speak of. The government doesn’t borrow from savers through the marketplace – but internationally, often from multilaterals.

Outlandish default rates result in vertiginously high real interest rates. Inter-corporate lending, barter, and cash transactions substitute for bank credit, corporate bonds, or equity flotations. As a result, the private sector’s financial leverage is minuscule. In the rich West $1 in equity generates $3-5 in debt for a total investment of $4-6. In the developing world, $1 of tax-evaded equity generates nothing. The state has to pick up the slack.

Growth and employment are public goods and developing countries are in a perpetual state of systemic and multiple market failures. Rather than lend to businesses or households – banks thrive on arbitrage. Investment horizons are limited. Should the state refrain from stepping in to fill up the gap – these countries are doomed to inexorable decline.

In times of global crisis, these observations pertain to rich and developed countries as well. Market failures signify corruption and inefficiency in the private sector. Such misconduct and misallocation of economic resources is usually thought to be the domain of the public sector, but actually it goes on everywhere in the economy.

Wealth destruction by privately-owned firms is typical of economies with absent, lenient, or lax regulation and often exceeds anything the public administration does. Corruption, driven by avarice and fear, is common among entrepreneurs as much as among civil servants. It is a myth to believe otherwise. Wherever there is money, human psychology is in operation and with it economic malaise. Hence the need for governmental micromanagement of the private sector at all times. Self-regulation is a costly and self-deceiving urban legend.

Another engine of state involvement is provided by the thrift paradox. When the economy goes sour, rational individuals and households save more and spend less. The aggregate outcome of their newfound thrift is recessionary: decreasing consumption translates into declining corporate profitability and rising unemployment. These effects are especially pronounced when financial transmission mechanisms (banks and other financial institutions) are gummed up: frozen in fear and distrust, they do not lend money, even though deposits (and their own capital base) are ever growing.

It is true that, by diversifying risk away, via the use of derivatives and other financial instruments, asset markets no longer affect the real economy as they used to. They have become, in a sense, “gated communities”, separated from Main Street by “risk barriers”. But, these developments do not pertain to retail banks and when markets are illiquid and counterparty risk rampant, options and swaps are pretty useless.

The only way to effectively cancel out this demonetization of the national economy (this “bleeding”) is through enhanced government spending. Where fearful citizens save, their government should spend on infrastructure, health, education, and information technology. The state’s negative savings should offset multiplying private savings. In extremis, the state should nationalize the financial sector for a limited period of time (as Israel has done in 1983 and Sweden, a decade later).

A Note on GDP (Gross Domestic Product)

GDP figures are not an exact science. All over the world, GDP numbers are politicized and subject to heavy manipulation. There are at least 3 known methodologies to calculate GDP and, for each of these methodologies, there are two alternative formulas which take into account completely different economic sets of data.

Still: there are good proxies to GDP. For instance: the consumption of electricity in the residential (household) sector and in the industrial sector, adjusted for the size of the informal economy, for the change in personal incomes (including private credit), and for shifts in weather patterns (as measured by a multiannual time series of average temperatures). Macedonia’s energy consumption has been growing by almost 4% annually for a few years now. This means that the economy is either stagnant or slightly contracting – but definitely not growing, as the government would have us believe.

Other proxies: money velocity; wage statistics (especially the wages of urban unskilled workers); crude death rate; infant mortality; and even the amount of mail sent per capita. Fluctuations in purchasing power (PPP) reflect the relative strengths of currencies, but also changes in GDP. All these measures indicate that Macedonia’s economy is experiencing either weak growth or no growth at all.

Describing the apparent doctoring of GDP figures in Greece, Diane Coyle, in her book “GDP: A Brief but Affectionate History” says:

“The pattern of GDP or other economic variables has a particular statistical fingerprint that is hard to falsify. These series of statistics are not random. Specifically, the first digit is not a 1 (or any other digit up

to 9) one time in every nine, as would be the case with random statistics. Instead, the figures are far more likely to start with a 1: the first digit will be a 1 six times more often than it will be a 9, over two times more often than it will be a 3, and so on. The fingerprint pattern is known as Benford’s Law. Dr. Charlie Eppes, the mathematical genius played by David Krumholtz in the crime drama  Numb3rs, uses it to solve a series of burglaries in one 2006 episode, ‘The Running Man.’ Greek  GDP statistics did not have the Benford’s Law fingerprint.”

The formula to calculate GDP is this:

GDP (Gross Domestic Product) =

Consumption + investment + government expenditure + net exports (exports minus imports) =

Wages + rents + interest + profits + non-income charges + net foreign factor  income earned

But the GDP figure is vulnerable to “creative accounting”:

1. The weight of certain items, sectors, or activities is reduced or increased in order to influence GDP components, such as industrial production. Developing countries often alter the way critical components of GDP like industrial production are tallied.

2. Goods in inventory are included in GDP although not yet sold. Thus, rising inventories, a telltale sign of economic ill-health, actually increases the GDP!

3. If goods produced are financed with credits and loans, GDP will be artificially HIGH (inflated).

4. In some countries, PLANS and INTENTIONS to invest are counted, recorded, and booked as actual investments. This practice is frowned upon (and landed quite a few corporate managers in the goal), but is still widespread in the shoddier and shadier corners of the globe.

5. GDP figures should be adjusted for inflation (real GDP as opposed to nominal GDP). To achieve that, the calculation of the GDP deflator is critical. But the GDP deflator is a highly subjective figure, prone, in developing countries, to reflecting the government’s political needs and predilections.

6. What currency exchange rates were used? By selecting the right “points in time”, GDP figures can go up and down by up to 2%!

7. Healthcare expenditures, agricultural subsidies, government aid to catastrophe-stricken areas form a part of the GDP. Thus, for instance, by increasing healthcare costs, the government can manipulate GDP figures.

8. Net exports in many developing countries are negative (in other words, they maintain a trade deficit). How can the GDP grow at all in these places? Even if consumption and investment are strongly up – government expenditures are usually down (at the behest of multilateral financial institutions) and net exports are down. It is not possible for GDP to grow vigorously in a country with a sizable and ballooning trade deficit.

9. The projections of most international, objective analysts and international economic organizations usually tend to converge on a GDP growth figure that is often lower than the government’s but in line with the long-term trend. These figures are far better indicators of the true state of the economy. Statistics Bureaus in developing countries are often under the government’s thumb and run by political appointees.

Note:  Why Recessions Happen and How to Counter Them

The fate of modern economies is determined by four types of demand: the demand for consumer goods; the demand for investment goods; the demand for money; and the demand for assets, which represent the expected utility of money (deferred money).

Periods of economic boom are characterized by a heightened demand for goods, both consumer and investment; a rising demand for assets; and low demand for actual money (low savings, low capitalization, high leverage).

Investment booms foster excesses (for instance: excess capacity) that, invariably lead to investment busts. But, economy-wide recessions are not triggered exclusively and merely by investment busts. They are the outcomes of a shift in sentiment: a rising demand for money at the expense of the demand for goods and assets.

In other words, a recession is brought about when people start to rid themselves of assets (and, in the process, deleverage); when they consume and lend less and save more; and when they invest less and hire fewer workers. A newfound predilection for cash and cash-equivalents is a surefire sign of impending and imminent economic collapse.

This etiology indicates the cure: reflation. Printing money and increasing the money supply are bound to have inflationary effects. Inflation ought to reduce the public’s appetite for a depreciating currency and push individuals, firms, and banks to invest in goods and assets and reboot the economy. Government funds can also be used directly to consume and invest, although the impact of such interventions is far from certain.

A crisis of growth in 2010-2?

The sovereign debt crisis of 2010-2 emanated from the realization that lower growth rates throughout the industrialized West were insufficient to guarantee the repayment of debts accumulated by governments. The proceeds of the credits and loans assumed by public sectors throughout Europe and in the USA were ploughed into successive futile attempts to stimulate ailing economies and avert banking crises and panics.

But this second leg of the global Great Recession is less about stalling growth than about the perception and measurement of growth. As labour-intensive industries increasingly adopted information- and automation-driven manufacturing, outsourcing and offshoring, the anemic recovery that attended the 2008-9 conflagration in the industrialized West was rendered jobless. Corporations sit on hoarded cash piles, driven by enhanced profitability and productivity even as workers languish in unemployment lines. Globalized labor and skills markets coupled with technological substitution for human employment dented consumption and this, in turn, adversely affected investments. These classical twin engines of every recovery since the Second World War have thus been somewhat decommissioned. Bouts of fiscal and monetary profligacy failed to resuscitate moribund financial transmission mechanisms.

But this is also a crisis of national accounting. The traditional ways of measuring growth simply fail to capture technological progress; the massive increase in purchasing power as it applies to consumer goods and products; and a discernible improvement in externalities such as the environment. Critical factors such as vastly improved health, an increased life expectancy (and, therefore, an extended economic horizon), public goods, or even changes in the quality of life remain unreflected in the way that countries measure their output and adjust it.

Indeed, current methodologies of quantifying GDP and NDP take a dim view of the precipitous and predictable drop in the prices of consumer goods, for instance. The same computing power costs now one fifth what it used to cost only three years ago. But this means that its contribution to the country’s GDP is down by c. 81% over the same period of time (assuming 6% inflation in these three years)! In other words: technological (and productivity) improvements translate into economic contraction in the way we currently gauge our economies.

Infrastructure and Development

“The relationship between infrastructure investment and economic development has been long recognized, going back to Adam Smith. Transportation infrastructure, in particular, is necessary to enable specialization and trade that lead to the development of economies of scale and important productivity gains. The effect of infrastructure on development has been extensively studied, showing its direct effect on GDP as an input in the production function (energy, water) and its indirect effects on development by increasing a system’s overall productivity through increased agglomeration economies. Infrastructure investments enable firms to maximize agglomeration gains from urbanization economies across industries and localization economies within an industry. Without these investments, the congestion, barriers to industrialization, and cost of communication resulting from insufficient infrastructure limit the economic gains associated with the transition from a rural to an urban society, and the lack of sufficient serviced land contributes to informal urbanization.

“Since 1988, China has framed urbanization as one of its top priorities to absorb surplus rural labor and ensure economic growth. Massive urbanization is occurring along with infrastructure development, but without the emergence of a large informal [shantytown] sector … Urbanization in China resembles the open-city model characterized by the emergence of new cities in opposition to a primate model in which most of the urban growth occurs in one or a few main existing cities. The value created through development is captured by local governments and is their main source of revenue. This puts them in competition with each other to attract growth, encouraging a race to development that has resulted in the expansion of a large number of cities.

“In addition, urbanization in China is occurring in the context of a fiscally decentralized system despite China being a very centralized country. The situation shares some of the characteristics of the model developed by Tiebout, in which the authority given to local communities to control land use and employ taxing powers to finance the provision of local services results in local governments acting as efficient service providers that compete for growth and invest in infrastructure and public services to attract residents by offering more attractive tax and services levels.

“In contrast, India has a federal system, which implies a certain level of decentralization, but local governments have no real fiscal autonomy and generally depend on central government funding to finance public investments, resulting in a severe infrastructure shortage. There is a clear contrast in the share of public revenue and expenditure that takes place at the local level in India and China.

“The decentralization of local taxation, development rights control, and services provision in China has had a strong impact on local outcomes, even if municipal governments do not have real autonomy from the central government (Weingast 2009). While determined by the central government, the incentives for local officials to promote growth have created a system in which local governments compete for development in order to receive benefits from urban expansion through increased revenue, in particular by monetizing land assets and career advancement for local officials.”

Bibliography

“Slums: How Informal Real Estate Markets Work”, Eugenie L. Birch, Shahana Chattaraj, and Susan M. Wachter (eds.), University of Pennsylvania Press, 2016, pp.  6-11

Footnotes

None

Citations

American Medical Association (AMA 11th Edition): Vaknin S. Government and Growth. May 2023; 11(3). http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/government-growth

American Psychological Association (APA 7th Edition): Vaknin, S. (2023, May 8). Government and Growth. In-Sight Publishing. 11(3). http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/government-growth.

Brazilian National Standards (ABNT): VAKNIN, S. Government and Growth. In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, Fort Langley, v. 11, n. 3, 2023.

Chicago/Turabian, Author-Date (17th Edition): Vaknin, Sam. 2023. “Government and Growth.” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal 11, no. 3 (Summer). http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/government-growth.

Chicago/Turabian, Notes & Bibliography (17th Edition): Vaknin, S “Government and Growth.” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal 11, no. 3 (May 2023). http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/government-growth.

Harvard: Vaknin, S. (2023) ‘Government and GrowthIn-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, 11(3). <http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/government-growth>.

Harvard (Australian): Vaknin, S 2023, ‘Government and GrowthIn-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vol. 11, no. 3, <http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/government-growth>.

Modern Language Association (MLA, 9th Edition): Vaknin, S. “Government and Growth.” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vo.11, no. 3, 2023, http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/government-growth.

Vancouver/ICMJE: Sam V. Government and Growth [Internet]. 2023 May; 11(3). Available from: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/government-growth

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License.

Based on work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen, or the author(s), and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors copyright their material, as well, and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

The Greenhorn Chronicles 43: L.J. Tidball on Great Riders, SafeSport, and George & Dianne Tidball (4)

Publisher: In-Sight Publishing

Publisher Founding: January 1, 2014

Web Domain: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com 

Location: Fort Langley, Township of Langley, British Columbia, Canada

Journal: In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Journal Founding: August 2, 2012

Frequency: Three (3) Times Per Year

Review Status: Non-Peer-Reviewed

Access: Electronic/Digital & Open Access

Fees: None (Free)

Volume Numbering: 11

Issue Numbering: 2

Section: E

Theme Type: Idea

Theme Premise: “Outliers and Outsiders”

Theme Part: 27

Formal Sub-Theme: “The Greenhorn Chronicles”

Individual Publication Date: May 1, 2023

Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2023

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Interviewer(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Interviewee(s): L.J. Tidball

Word Count: 2,576

Image Credits: Quinn Saunders

International Standard Serial Number (ISSN): 2369-6885

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citations, after the interview.*

*Interview conducted December 26, 2022.*

Abstract

Laura Jane “L.J.” Tidball has been the Manager of Thunderbird Show Stables, an elite hunter and jumper facility, for 20 years. She is a shareholder and contributing partner to Thunderbird Show Park, which has been voted in the top 3 equestrian show facilities in North America. For Show Park, she has been important in advising on top level equine footing, site development plans for capital improvement, and competitor scheduling for National and FEI competitions. She has been competing at the Grand Prix level since 16-years-old. Since winning the Equine Canada medal (1994) and competing on the British Columbia Young Riders’ team (1996), L.J. pursued equestrianism as a career with a fervent passion. Tidball shows multiple mounts of Thunderbird Show Stables and its clients in the hunter and the jumper rings. Through work from the pony hunters onwards with the assistance of Olympian Laura Balisky and Laura’s husband, Brent, L.J. has achieved many years of success in equitation, and the hunters and the jumpers. In 2005, she returned from a successful European tour to operate Thunderbird on a professional basis. She has been awarded the 2014 Leading BCHJA 2014 rider in the FEI World Cup West Coast League Rankings and the 2014 BCHJA Leading Trainer of the Year. In her spare time, her hobbies include baking, skiing, and snowboarding. Tidball discusses: watching great riders; when riders hit their sweet spot; the organizations; SafeSport; training; post-secondary education; supply and demand for horses; routines and breaking habits a bit; the family history in the Olympics, the Keg, McDonald’s, and Thunderbird Show Park; George Tidball and Dianne Tidball; George and Dianne’s relationship; George as a UBC dropout and top of his class are Harvard; identifying talent in show jumpers; and final thoughts.

Keywords: Brent Balisky, Dianne Tidball, Eric Lamaze, George Tidball, Kimberley Martens, L.J. Tidball, Laura Balisky, SafeSport, The Greenhorn Chronicles.

The Greenhorn Chronicles 43: L.J. Tidball on Great Riders, SafeSport, and George & Dianne Tidball (4)

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Kimberley Martens in Holland noted that it, similarly, was a real pleasure to watch Eric on Hickstead. In the sense that, he had a really good feel and grace in riding. As someone with a lifetime in this sport at a high level, can you put into more precise words watching someone like Tiffany Foster, Eric Lamaze, etc., at that level?

L.J. Tidball: They make it look easy. When you watch somebody who is great at something, it doesn’t look hard. When somebody watches Eric win the gold medal. They would, probably, be sitting on their couches as somebody who has never ridden horse and say, “Oh! I could do that.” It shouldn’t look erratic or forced. If it looks like you’re hooking them in the mouth or kicking them with the spurs, to me, that is probably not the best in the world. When it is seamless and the smallest aid is making the biggest difference, that, to me, is the grace and the partnership that you see in people at the top. When it looks easy, they’re doing it right. 

Jacobsen: When do most riders hit their stride? Is there a range?

Tidball: I think, it is, at least, 18. Riding is such a hard sport. There are so many levels that you have to achieve to be able to jump the 1.60m height. I think it is rare somebody under the age of 18 is doing it. We really peak, in my opinion, around 30. Then you have enough knowledge. You have jumped enough courses. You have jumped against enough people and ridden enough horses.  It’s a sport of longevity. It is not a sport of aging out and then it’s done. It takes time. It is such a technical sport. You have to have done enough to know what you’re getting yourself into. 

Jacobsen: There are the organizations in the country’s provinces and the national federation. How is the support from these organizations and the federation for the younger riders and for riders from Canada?

Tidball: I think our federation does the best they can with the resources they have. Canada is an odd country. There is not a lot of money to support our athletes, whether a soccer player, show jumper, or ice skater. The funding is not very high. We get the podium funding when we have medalled, which, my understanding, has run out now – from when Eric won the medal, there is a timeline. There is only so much Canada has to give back to its athletes. It is really hard. There is some B.C. athlete assistance, which you can apply for. But that got hard during Covid. I had been in Florida, I applied and they turned me down due to Covid. [Laughing] It is tough. I look at countries like the United States. There is so much more funding than for us. I don’t know if there is a way to change that or to compete with it. I don’t know the intricacies of their financial statements. So, I really can’t get into it. But do I think it would be nice if there was more funding or more support? Absolutely.

Jacobsen: About 2016/17, there was a North American cultural moment, some European, of mostly men in mostly prominent positions with the MeToo movement and the TimesUp movement. These were bringing to light conduct of men in power. There was some justice, marginal in other cases, for victims. I am aware of SafeSport and allegations that have been made to some individuals. Do you think some of these outgrowths of things happening earlier in general culture have been filtered into equestrian culture?

Tidball: I think any governing body of any sport needs to have something in place to protect athletes that are being abused and mistreated. I think that is 1,000% something that we stand up for in Canada. Our governing body, my understanding, is that they come to you. You get to provide documentation. Then it goes to a committee for review. Then it comes back. In the States, my understanding is you’re guilty until proven innocent. I think in our society if an accusation gets put there and if it is not true, it is very hard to come back from that. Nobody will want to put their child in a barn where there was a known accusation. Even though, it was proven to be false. I think what we do in Canada is appropriate. We need to protect our athletes. I think it is a very real thing. I think at this point emotions are very high surrounding it. People are new enough to it. They are talking about it. It is going to bring awareness to it. As coaches, we need to be appropriate how we coach. There are tons of courses out there that you can take to help you as a coach to know what the best ways are of training and explaining yourself.

Jacobsen: Related to that question, oddly enough, when I reached to a lot of Canadian riders, a lot of y’all are on Instagram and Facebook, which brings me back to the previous question about social media and the response about being a coach. Does this era of social media and being a little on egg shells, in terms of they’re how walking, make coaching a little more difficult at times? 

Tidball: Like I said in the beginning, I think riding is fantastic sport because no matter what. When you walk into a ring with a horse, the outcome will be very obvious to you. You will either succeed or fail. If you want longevity in the sport, when you fail, you will work harder to do things right. As coaches, we have to present a set of skills to the riders. We have to give them the tools to succeed. It comes down to an individual person’s drive. When I send kids or adults into the ring and something doesn’t go right, when they come out, they will ask for more skills. Which I can help them with, so the situation can get better next time, it is not the harsh words of encouragement. Coaching has become softer. It doesn’t mean that you cannot get the same thing accomplished. 

Jacobsen: Brent in some prior interviews has noted post-secondary education can be quite useful for riders and trainers in the sport. You went to the University of San Diego. Do you think, for up and coming riding, that post-secondary education is an asset?

Tidball: I think education is always an asset. We have so many opportunities nowadays with the amount ot technology out there. Anything is able to be learned if you are willing to put in a little effort into it. Post-secondary education is amazing. To me, the best part about that is it gives you a better worldview. It is very easy in our equestrian sport to get into a bubble and to live only in that bubble. You don’t realize there is anything outside of it. We spend most weeks of the year riding, showing, competing, especially when you get to that top level. My mom went to Cambodia for Just World International. She loved what they were doing. That is a charity Thunderbird Show Park is still a part of; there are so many facets of life that we, as riders, can get involved in if we try. 

For my post-secondary education, I don’t know how much of that I have retained. I know the reading that I do on the weekly helps me have a better worldview and understanding of our economic situation and what is going on in the world. I think that that’s all a part if you are going to be involved in this business.

Jacobsen: A common issue – not every rider, but a number of riders – raised has been financial barriers to something as simple as a purchasing price of a horse. Mac Cone called it simple supply and demand. When a certain amount of horses are born every year, way more people want to buy, it raises the price artificially for the best horses. How is that conversation had within the community? What are some other barriers to entry at the top end of the sport?

Tidball: I think no matter what elite level sport. It is always expensive. Whether a car racing team or a sailing team, or the top tennis players in the world, I look at what their coaching and costs of travel are. It is similar no matter what you get to doing. The purchasing price of the animals adds to it, and horses definitely cost more than tennis racquets [Laughing]. I think purchasing prices of horses have gone up, and up, and up. You breed 100 horses and only 1 of them could make it to the top level. That horse becomes quite expensive. The average horse jumping 1.20m and under I think those are still within a normal range. When you are looking to purchase something at a national team level, I think those are elite athletes. When you look at how much you pay an NHL player, per year, well that’s kind of the same as buying a top horse.  You are buying an NHL player or an NBA player. The purchase prices are high for sure. 

Jacobsen: You are mentioning how personality-wise. You stick to your routines. Brent pushes you out of those 5%. I have noted certain superstitions or things that might be in some in the community. Do you note any superstitions? 

Tidball: I have a tendency to become very superstitious. I refuse to allow myself. When I begin to think a riding jacket is lucky or a show shirt is lucky, I will force myself to wear something else. I can’t allow myself to go down that tunnel being like, “Those are my lucky socks. What happen when those get a hole in them? My day is ruined.” I definitely have the ability to do that and to go down that rabbit hole that I force myself not to. 

Jacobsen: Is this common in the industry in your experience?

Tidball: Yes, absolutely, it is because we want to do well so badly. Like I said, even if something worked, I am the round ped in the round hole. If I morning flatted my horse, and getting ready for that class a certain way helped me, I will, probably, repeat the same steps. It is pretty easy to take it to the next level. “I wore those socks that day.” “I had that show jacket on.” “My necklace that my grandmother gave me.” Whatever gives you a boost, I think it is a dangerous avenue if you go down it too much and can plague you. I try not to make it a thing for me. 

Jacobsen: Another aspect, I forgot to ask. We talked about the Olympic team family history, the Keg, McDonald’s, and Show Park family history. What about before that? I believe there is some information around Shanghai. 

Tidball: My grandmother was born in Shanghai. She rode a little bit while she was there. It was when it was still under British rule. Her father worked for Lever Brother’s. She travelled back and forth to boarding schools in England as a young woman. During the war, my great-grandfather ended up in a prisoner of war camp in Shanghai. My grandmother, her sister, and my great-grandmother, fled and went to San Francisco. My grandmother’s sister had asthma. It got worse with it being so damp. So, they moved to the Interior and bought some land on Okanagan Lake, which turned out to one day become Sandy Beach Lodge & Resort. They had a vacation spot there, a hotel. So, that’s how that came to fruition. That’s how she met my grandfather. He was stripping the logs for the hotel. 

Jacobsen: [Laughing] How did that relationship develop in the earlier days for him?

Tidball: I think my great-grandparents hated him, pretty sure. He was not highly educated. He was working for a living. He wanted to be a pro baseball player.

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Tidball: He was the ultimate twinkle in his eye bad boy. She was the beautiful, perfect, English rose. They made it work. They set on their own and they accomplished a lot of things. 

Jacobsen: What about their partnership was not a driver, but a major factor in being so persistent and successful?

Tidball: I think my grandfather was a dreamer. He, definitely, could always see the bigger picture or have these amazing ideas of what he wanted to do. My grandmother had dedication and work ethic. She could keep the wheels turning and make things happen. She was the woman behind the man. She made sure that he didn’t just have a dream and forget about it. She made sure the dream was to go and get it. That he pushed until he got it. I think that is what they instilled in us our whole lives too. You can have the dream, but you have to work really hard to get there. She instilled that work ethic in him. 

Jacobsen: Did the mentorship and training under Milton Friedman provide a framework for him to look at economics and business mindset?

Tidball: Absolutely, he was reading journals and financials. He was so business smart. He could look at one thing and understand it, where it would take most of us weeks of reading and researching to figure out what they were talking about. He could pick it up in a snap. He was incredibly brilliant that way. 

Jacobsen: He was originally a dropout at UBC. Then he became the top of his class at Harvard.

Tidball: Yes, like I said, he had my grandmother behind him and she gave him drive. She pushed him [Laughing]. He was incredibly intelligent. At Harvard, he was surrounded by teachers who inspired him to work harder. When you are inspired and respect that people that you are working for, you tend to be inspired. As a company, if you can inspire people to do their best, that’s a good thing. As a coach, I hope from the bottom of my heart that I can inspire the kids and the adults that I coach to be their best.

Jacobsen: How do you identify early talent in show jumpers?

Tidball: Athletic ability is important, but I think it is mostly about practice. The more opportunities to practice, the better that you will be. Even if there is talent, if you don’t practice, you want to get to the top. Everything is so technical nowadays. If you don’t have the skills to back it up, you won’t make it, even if you are talented.

Jacobsen: Any final feelings or thoughts in conclusion based on the conversation today?

Tidball: In talking today, it reminded me how much I love the sport that I am in. How many dreams I still have, I think that’s pretty cool. I am 45-years-old and can still have dreams as to what I want to achieve as an athlete. I remind myself how lucky I am. This is my passion and the path I chose. It is unique. It is pretty special. 

Jacobsen: Thank you for the opportunity and your time, L.J. 

Tidball: You’re very welcome, Scott.

Bibliography

None

Footnotes

None

American Psychological Association (APA 7th Edition): Jacobsen, S. (2023, May 1). The Greenhorn Chronicles 43: L.J. Tidball on Great Riders, SafeSport, and George & Dianne Tidball (4). In-Sight Publishing. 11(3). http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/tidball-4.

Brazilian National Standards (ABNT): JACOBSEN, S. D. The Greenhorn Chronicles 43: L.J. Tidball on Great Riders, SafeSport, and George & Dianne Tidball (4). In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, Fort Langley, v. 11, n. 3, 2023.

Chicago/Turabian, Author-Date (17th Edition): Jacobsen, Scott. 2023. “The Greenhorn Chronicles 43: L.J. Tidball on Great Riders, SafeSport, and George & Dianne Tidball (4).In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal 11, no. 3 (Spring). http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/tidball-4.

Chicago/Turabian, Notes & Bibliography (17th Edition): Jacobsen, Scott The Greenhorn Chronicles 43: L.J. Tidball on Great Riders, SafeSport, and George & Dianne Tidball (4).In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal 11, no. 3 (May 2023). http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/tidball-4.

Harvard: Jacobsen, S. (2023) ‘The Greenhorn Chronicles 43: L.J. Tidball on Great Riders, SafeSport, and George & Dianne Tidball (4), In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, 11(3). <http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/tidball-4>.

Harvard (Australian): Jacobsen, S 2023, ‘The Greenhorn Chronicles 43: L.J. Tidball on Great Riders, SafeSport, and George & Dianne Tidball (4), In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vol. 11, no. 3, <http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/tidball-4>.

Modern Language Association (MLA, 9th Edition): Jacobsen, Scott. “The Greenhorn Chronicles 43: L.J. Tidball on Great Riders, SafeSport, and George & Dianne Tidball (4).” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vo.11, no. 3, 2023, http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/tidball-4.

Vancouver/ICMJE: Jacobsen S. The Greenhorn Chronicles 43: L.J. Tidball on Great Riders, SafeSport, and George & Dianne Tidball (4) [Internet]. 2023 May; 11(3). Available from: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/tidball-4

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License.

Based on work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen, or the author(s), and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors copyright their material, as well, and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

The Greenhorn Chronicles 42: L.J. Tidball on Business, the Global South and East, Injuries, and International Competition (3)

Publisher: In-Sight Publishing

Publisher Founding: January 1, 2014

Web Domain: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com 

Location: Fort Langley, Township of Langley, British Columbia, Canada

Journal: In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Journal Founding: August 2, 2012

Frequency: Three (3) Times Per Year

Review Status: Non-Peer-Reviewed

Access: Electronic/Digital & Open Access

Fees: None (Free)

Volume Numbering: 11

Issue Numbering: 2

Section: E

Theme Type: Idea

Theme Premise: “Outliers and Outsiders”

Theme Part: 27

Formal Sub-Theme: “The Greenhorn Chronicles”

Individual Publication Date: April 22, 2023

Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2023

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Interviewer(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Interviewee(s): L.J. Tidball

Word Count: 1,267

Image Credits: Quinn Saunders

International Standard Serial Number (ISSN): 2369-6885

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citations, after the interview.*

*Interview conducted December 26, 2022.*

Abstract

Laura Jane “L.J.” Tidball has been the Manager of Thunderbird Show Stables, an elite hunter and jumper facility, for 20 years. She is a shareholder and contributing partner to Thunderbird Show Park, which has been voted in the top 3 equestrian show facilities in North America. For Show Park, she has been important in advising on top level equine footing, site development plans for capital improvement, and competitor scheduling for National and FEI competitions. She has been competing at the Grand Prix level since 16-years-old. Since winning the Equine Canada medal (1994) and competing on the British Columbia Young Riders’ team (1996), L.J. pursued equestrianism as a career with a fervent passion. Tidball shows multiple mounts of Thunderbird Show Stables and its clients in the hunter and the jumper rings. Through work from the pony hunters onwards with the assistance of Olympian Laura Balisky and Laura’s husband, Brent, L.J. has achieved many years of success in equitation, and the hunters and the jumpers. In 2005, she returned from a successful European tour to operate Thunderbird on a professional basis. She has been awarded the 2014 Leading BCHJA 2014 rider in the FEI World Cup West Coast League Rankings and the 2014 BCHJA Leading Trainer of the Year. In her spare time, her hobbies include baking, skiing, and snowboarding. Tidball discusses: equitation and hunters; the global South and East; Major League and The Longines Global Champion Tour; injuries; and Ian Millar and Eric Lamaze.

Keywords: Brent Balisky, Canada, Eric Lamaze, equitation, FEI, Global Champions Tour, hunters, Ian Millar, Jan Tops, Keann White, L.J. Tidball, Laura Balisky, Mac Cone, Major League Show Jumping, North America.

The Greenhorn Chronicles 42: L.J. Tidball on Business, the global South and East, Injuries, and International Competition (3)

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Mac Cone noted Canada focuses more on equitation and hunters for training. Why?

L.J. Tidball: Hunters and equitation are a great way to raise your skill level. Hunter courses are simpler in the sense that there’s usually only eight jumps in a course. So, if you were just beginning in our sport, hunters are a good way to begin. There’s also the judged component in the hunters and equitation. I find some people thrive on trying to achieve that perfect score. In North America, hunters and equitation have their own niche. In the equitation where you were being judged on your position, I think it teaches you how to leave out a stride in a line, how to make an inside turn, and to do it with a skill set. It is one thing that we do a little differently in North America than in Europe. Not everybody comes into our sport with a goal of jumping to metre 60, it gives a place with the hunters and the equitation for our clientele to have more than one area to accelerate. I think the hunters and equitation are a great place to improve your skills. We teach everyone from beginners all the way up to the FEI level in our barn. There’s a place for everyone and like I said it’s a business at the end of the day and we want our business to be inclusive. In Europe, there are just jumpers. I think both ways work. 

Jacobsen: Western Europe and North America tend to be the most prominent on the stage, internationally. How are the global South and East, themselves, coming into the sport? 

Tidball: We were in Morocco in 2019. They, Egypt, Saudi Arabia & UAE have all been excelling on the show jumping scene in recent years. The Longines Global Champion Tour, has added to the ability of more people to get into the FEI divisions, in Europe, it is very hard to get into any FEI show, unless, you have enough ranking points. The Longines Global Champion Tour and the Major League Show Jumping, as well, allows people to get onto a team and to get to the 5* shows, get those ranking points, and have that practice. Without the ability to compete at that high level, it is hard to excel at the world stage. The creation of those tours supports the Southern, Eastern, and European and North American communities. 

Jacobsen: Who brought Major League and The Longines Global Champion Tour into the system?

Tidball: Major League Show Jumping was Keean White, who is a Canadian. He rode on the Canadian team. The Longines Global Champion Tour was founded by Jan Tops. With the idea in mind, giving an avenue for people who want to get to the top of the sport to have a set of shows, that is really at a high level. They are well put on. They are technical and at the high-end of the sport.

Jacobsen: Many of the top riders in Canada have had their injuries. You have had your own. What were they? How did you cope with that recovery period to get to full performance level again?

Tidball: Yes, I got flipped over on and broke something like 23 bones. My ribs, my pelvis in a few places, my collar bone, I had rods and screws through a bunch of me. It was a hard period for me. It was hard. It was hard mentally to overcome what had happened; I had a horse in Mexico. I was supposed to leave the next day to jump on a Canadian Nations Cup team. My horse was already there. I was stuck in a hospital bed. It was tough. It was a hard road for me, mentally and physically. That was in 2019. I would say just now. I am at about 90% of my strength, especially my left leg. My muscles on the inside of my left leg didn’t work for a while. I don’t think I’ll ever be as strong as I was to be perfectly honest. I have come to terms with that. I would say the hardest part is mentally allowing myself the grace to put that to the side and to not fixate on it, and to admit: I was scared. It was scary. I was in Morocco in October. I had fallen off and injured myself in April. I was competing on the Canadian team again in October. It didn’t take long to get back to where I was. Now, would I have gotten on a young horse, where something might have gone wrong at some point? Absolutely not. My horse, I trusted really well. I felt I could carry on with that. There was a triple combination in Morocco, which was the same one I got flipped over on. It was a young horse I was riding, not my experienced horse I had in Morocco. I saw double as I was riding up to it. It, obviously, was still affecting me. It took a long time and a lot of rounds, and a lot of triple combinations. A lot of those triple combinations were the ones that scared me. Until, I got to the point where it doesn’t cross my mind anymore. I am thankful for that. If fear and uncertainty top the list when walking into a show ring, you are not giving your horse, your partner, the right impression when you compete.

Jacobsen: Ian Millar set a record for the Olympics. He attended 10, which is more than any Olympian in any sport ever. What explains the longevity?

Tidball: I know Ian is incredibly dedicated to himself, what he put in his body, how he worked out, and how he trained. I think he is incredibly intelligent. He is a brilliant man. He worked things out with horses, a little like I said about Brent (Balisky). He could think outside the box. He always found a way to get things done. He brought the best out of the horses. I truly believe that he is an exceptional athlete. He inspires me all the time. 

Jacobsen: Ian has stepped down. Another athlete, prominent on the international stage, stepped back, but not down: Eric Lamaze. In 2008, in Beijing, the team won silver. Individually, he won gold. What did he represent to the sport at that time? How does the Chef d’Equipe position provide a nice transition for someone having to step back [Ed. The position has changed since the time of the interview again with a further stepping back, in a sense, for Lamaze.]?

Tidball: At the time, when Eric won those medals, he was, obviously, one of the biggest figures, in my mind, of our sport. We were jumping up and down. I remember watching him win the gold medal. We stopped at the horse show. We were at the edge of our seat watching. It was an incredible day to be a Canadian show jumping fan! Knowing him, knowing how hard he worked to get to where he was, knowing his background and upbringing…

Jacobsen: …he came from nothing. 

Tidball:  He came from nothing. It was inspiring. He is, probably, one of the most talented riders that any of us will ever see ride a horse. He just had ability that oozed out of him. For sure, there is a level of respect for that that will last a lifetime. He had an incredible partner in Hickstead. It was the horse of a lifetime for him. He made everything work for him. 

Citations

American Medical Association (AMA 11th Edition): Jacobsen S. The Greenhorn Chronicles 42: L.J. Tidball on Business, the Global South and East, Injuries, and International Competition (3). April 2023; 11(2). http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/tidball-3

American Psychological Association (APA 7th Edition): Jacobsen, S. (2023, April 22). The Greenhorn Chronicles 42: L.J. Tidball on Business, the Global South and East, Injuries, and International Competition (3). In-Sight Publishing. 11(2). http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/tidball-3.

Brazilian National Standards (ABNT): JACOBSEN, S. D. The Greenhorn Chronicles 42: L.J. Tidball on Business, the Global South and East, Injuries, and International Competition (3). In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, Fort Langley, v. 11, n. 2, 2023.

Chicago/Turabian, Author-Date (17th Edition): Jacobsen, Scott. 2023. “The Greenhorn Chronicles 42: L.J. Tidball on Business, the Global South and East, Injuries, and International Competition (3).In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal 11, no. 2 (Spring). http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/tidball-3.

Chicago/Turabian, Notes & Bibliography (17th Edition): Jacobsen, Scott The Greenhorn Chronicles 42: L.J. Tidball on Business, the Global South and East, Injuries, and International Competition (3).In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal 11, no. 2 (April 2023). http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/tidball-3.

Harvard: Jacobsen, S. (2023) ‘The Greenhorn Chronicles 42: L.J. Tidball on Business, the Global South and East, Injuries, and International Competition (3), In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, 11(2). <http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/tidball-3>.

Harvard (Australian): Jacobsen, S 2023, ‘The Greenhorn Chronicles 42: L.J. Tidball on Business, the Global South and East, Injuries, and International Competition (3), In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vol. 11, no. 2, <http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/tidball-3>.

Modern Language Association (MLA, 9th Edition): Jacobsen, Scott. “The Greenhorn Chronicles 42: L.J. Tidball on Business, the Global South and East, Injuries, and International Competition (3).” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vo.11, no. 2, 2023, http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/tidball-3.

Vancouver/ICMJE: Jacobsen S. The Greenhorn Chronicles 42: L.J. Tidball on Business, the Global South and East, Injuries, and International Competition (3) [Internet]. 2023 Apr; 11(2). Available from: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/tidball-3

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License.

Based on work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen, or the author(s), and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors copyright their material, as well, and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

The Serious Narcissist

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Publisher: In-Sight Publishing

Publisher Founding: April 1, 2014

Web Domain: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com 

Location: Fort Langley, Township of Langley, British Columbia, Canada

Journal: In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Journal Founding: August 2, 2012

Frequency: Three (3) Times Per Year

Review Status: Non-Peer-Reviewed

Access: Electronic/Digital & Open Access

Fees: None (Free)

Volume Numbering: 11

Issue Numbering: 2

Section: B

Theme Type: Idea

Theme Premise: “Outliers and Outsiders”

Theme Part: 27

Formal Sub-Theme: None.

Individual Publication Date: April 8, 2023

Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2023

Author(s): Sam Vaknin

Author(s) Bio: Sam Vaknin is the author of Malignant Self-love: Narcissism Revisited as well as many other books and ebooks about topics in psychology, relationships, philosophy, economics, international affairs, and award-winning short fiction. He is former Visiting Professor of Psychology, Southern Federal University, Rostov-on-Don, Russia and Professor of Finance and Psychology in SIAS-CIAPS (Centre for International Advanced and Professional Studies). He was the Editor-in-Chief of Global Politician and served as a columnist for Central Europe Review, PopMatters, eBookWeb, and Bellaonline, and as a United Press International (UPI) Senior Business Correspondent. He was the editor of mental health and Central East Europe categories in The Open Directory and Suite101. His YouTube channels garnered 20,000,000 views and 85,000 subscribers. Visit Sam’s Web site: http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com.

Word Count: 823

Image Credit: None

International Standard Serial Number (ISSN): 2369-6885

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citations, after the publication.*

Keywords: gelotophobic, God, ideas of reference, inflated sense of self-import, Narcissistic Supply, Sam Vaknin, sense of humour, Serious Narcissist.

The Serious Narcissist

The narcissist is self-important: he takes himself seriously and believes that he is unique and that his life is of cosmic significance.

The narcissist cracks jokes at other people’s expense, but is incapable of self-deprecation, except in the form of false modesty.

Question:

Do narcissists have an exceptional sense of humour?

Answer:

I am sure that some of them do. In this, they are no different than healthier specimen of the human species. The narcissist, though, rarely engages in self-directed, self-deprecating humour. If he does, feigning self-effacing modesty, he expects to be contradicted, rebuked and rebuffed by his listeners (“Come on, you are actually quite handsome!”), or to be commended or admired for his courage or for his wit and intellectual acerbity (“I envy your ability to laugh at yourself!”).

The narcissist is prone to ideas of reference (the delusional conviction that he is the butt of opprobrium and mockery behind his back), which makes him react with consternation, indignation and even rage to humour and laughter (some narcissists are gelotophobic.)

As everything else in a narcissist’s life, his sense of humour is deployed in the interminable pursuit of Narcissistic Supply.

The absence of Narcissistic Supply (or the impending threat of such an absence) is, indeed, a serious matter. It is the narcissistic equivalent of mental death. If prolonged and unmitigated, such absence can lead to the real thing: physical death, a result of suicide, or of a psychosomatic deterioration of the narcissist’s health.

Yet, to obtain Narcissistic Supply, one must be taken seriously and to be taken seriously one must be the first to take oneself seriously. Hence the gravity with which the narcissist contemplates himself. This lack of levity and of perspective and proportion characterise the narcissist and set him apart.

The narcissist firmly believes that he is unique and that he has a mission to fulfil, a destined life. The narcissist’s biography is part of Mankind’s legacy, spun by a cosmic plot which constantly thickens. Such a life deserves only the most serious consideration.

Moreover, every particle of the narcissist’s existence, every action or inaction, every utterance, creation, or composition, indeed every thought, are bathed in this universal significance. The narcissist treads the ideal paths of glory, of achievement, of perfection, or of brilliance. It is all part of a design, a pattern, a plot, which inexorably lead the narcissist on to the fulfilment of his task.

The narcissist may subscribe to a religion, to a belief, or to an ideology in his effort to understand the source of this ubiquitous conviction of uniqueness. He may attribute his sense of direction to God, to history, to society, to culture, to a calling, to his profession, to a value system. But he always does so with a straight face and with deadly seriousness.

And because, to the narcissist, the part is a reflection of the whole – he tends to generalise, to resort to stereotypes, to induct (to learn about the whole from the detail), to exaggerate, finally to pathologically lie to himself and to others. This self-importance, this belief in a grand design, in an all embracing and all-pervasive pattern – make him an easy prey to all manner of logical fallacies and con artistry. Despite his avowed and proudly expressed rationality the narcissist is besieged by superstition and prejudice. Above all, he is a captive of the false conviction that his uniqueness destines him to fulfil a mission of cosmic significance.

All these make the narcissist a volatile person. Not merely mercurial – but fluctuating, histrionic, unreliable, and disproportional. That which has cosmic implications calls for cosmic reactions. A person with an inflated sense of self-import, reacts with exaggeration to threats, greatly inflated by his imagination and by his personal mythology.

On the narcissist’s cosmic scale, the daily vagaries of life, the mundane, the routine are not important, even damagingly distracting. This is the source of his feeling of exceptional entitlement. Surely, engaged as he is in benefiting humanity through the exercise of his unique faculties – the narcissist deserves special treatment!

This is the source of his violent swings between opposite behaviour patterns and between devaluation and idealisation of others. To the narcissist, every minor development is nothing less than a portentous omen, every adversity is a conspiracy to upset his progress, every setback an apocalyptic calamity, every irritation the cause for outlandish outbursts of rage.

He is a man of the extremes and only of the extremes. He may learn to efficiently suppress or hide his feelings or reactions – but never for long. In the most inappropriate and inopportune moment, you can count on the narcissist to explode, like a wrongly wound time bomb. And in between eruptions, the narcissistic volcano daydreams, indulges in delusions, plans his victories over an increasingly hostile and alienated environment. Gradually, the narcissist becomes paranoid, aloof, detached and dissociative.

In such a setting, you must admit, there is not much room for a sense of humour.

Bibliography

None

Footnotes

None

Citations

American Medical Association (AMA 11th Edition): Vaknin S. The Serious Narcissist. April 2023; 11(2). http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/serious-narcissist

American Psychological Association (APA 7th Edition): Vaknin, S. (2023, April 8). The Serious Narcissist. In-Sight Publishing. 11(2). http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/serious-narcissist.

Brazilian National Standards (ABNT): VAKNIN, S. The Serious Narcissist. In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, Fort Langley, v. 11, n. 2, 2023.

Chicago/Turabian, Author-Date (17th Edition): Vaknin, Sam. 2023. “The Serious Narcissist.” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal 11, no. 2 (Spring). http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/serious-narcissist.

Chicago/Turabian, Notes & Bibliography (17th Edition): Vaknin, S The Serious Narcissist.” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal 11, no. 2 (April 2023). http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/serious-narcissist.

Harvard: Vaknin, S. (2023) ‘The Serious NarcissistIn-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, 11(1). <http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/serious-narcissist>.

Harvard (Australian): Vaknin, S 2023, ‘The Serious NarcissistIn-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vol. 11, no. 2, <http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/serious-narcissist>.

Modern Language Association (MLA, 9th Edition): Vaknin, S. “The Serious Narcissist.” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vo.11, no. 2, 2023, http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/serious-narcissist.

Vancouver/ICMJE: Sam V. The Serious Narcissist [Internet]. 2023 Apr; 11(2). Available from: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/serious-narcissist

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License.

Based on work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen, or the author(s), and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors copyright their material, as well, and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Human decency moves civilization forward

Publisher: In-Sight Publishing

Publisher Founding: April 1, 2014

Web Domain: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com 

Location: Fort Langley, Township of Langley, British Columbia, Canada

Journal: In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Journal Founding: August 2, 2012

Frequency: Three (3) Times Per Year

Review Status: Non-Peer-Reviewed

Access: Electronic/Digital & Open Access

Fees: None (Free)

Volume Numbering: 11

Issue Numbering: 2

Section: B

Theme Type: Idea

Theme Premise: “Outliers and Outsiders”

Theme Part: 27

Formal Sub-Theme: None.

Individual Publication Date: April 8, 2023

Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2023

Author(s): James Haught

Author(s) Bio: James A. Haught was the longtime editor at the Charleston Gazette and has been the editor emeritus since 2015. He also is a senior editor of Free Inquiry magazine and was writer-in-residence for the United Coalition of Reason.

Word Count: 580

Image Credit: None

International Standard Serial Number (ISSN): 2369-6885

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citations, after the publication.*

Keywords: Abraham Lincoln, British, Christmas Eve, Cold War, decency, democracy, German, humanism, New England, Russians, Soviet Union, Steven Pinker.

Human decency moves civilization forward

You must remember the semi-comic Cold War film classic, “The Russians Are Coming, the Russians Are Coming.”

To recap its story: A deadly Soviet Union nuclear submarine suffers engine trouble and is forced to surface in a little New England fishing village. After some awkward dealings, villagers with shotguns and rifles march to the waterfront. Soviet sailors line the deck with machine guns. Weapons aimed, they face each other in a tense standoff.

Suddenly, a little boy, watching the drama from a church belfry, falls and is caught tangled in a rope, suspended high above the ground, screeching. Abruptly, both sides put down their guns and rush to rescue the child. Sailors form a human pyramid and untangle him. Everyone then joins in a hugging, back-slapping celebration. U.S. warplanes arrive to destroy the stranded sub, but villagers shield it with their fishing boats and escort it safely back to sea.

The movie has a deep meaning: Human decency — the urge to save a child — is stronger than political conflicts and military hostilities.

An episode similar to the film’s story occurred in real life on Christmas Eve, 1914, when British and German soldiers paused their hideous trench warfare on the Western Front for a spontaneous truce. They sang carols to each other, shouted holiday greetings, then got out of their bunkers to meet in no man’s land, where they traded small gifts and cordialities. Afterward, commanders had difficulty forcing the men to resume shooting each other.

Actually, human decency is the lifeblood of civilization. Abraham Lincoln poetically called it “the better angels of our nature.” The desire to help each other keeps humanity surviving and thriving.

Philosophers call this humanism: a craving to reduce slaughter and make life better for everyone. It’s the driving force of social advancement. Every government program that reduces poverty, improves health, prevents violence, upgrades nutrition, guarantees human rights, betters education, secures housing, assures equality, cures disease, enforces fairness, among other things, is a step in the process.

And decency slowly is winning. Several scholars have written books outlining progress that has elevated personal living conditions.

For example, Harvard psychologist Steven Pinker asserts that rampant killing was 1,000 times worse in medieval times than today. In The Better Angels of Our Nature: Why Violence Has Declined, he notes that international warfare has virtually vanished in the 21st century — and that murder, rape, genocide, torture, wife-beating, lynching, gay-bashing, dueling, racial attacks and even cruelty to animals are vastly less than in the past.

“The decline of violence may be the most significant and least-appreciated development in the history of our species,” he writes. “It is easy to forget how dangerous life used to be, how deeply brutality was once woven into the fabric of daily existence.”

Today’s instant flashing of lurid news scenes, especially over the past some days, makes it appear that terrible behavior is everywhere — but it’s misleading. All statistics show a clear decline in savagery. Humanity is kinder and fairer than before.

These improvements arise from the best human urges. Intelligent democracy makes it possible for kindly instincts — the humane empathy locked in everyone’s inner mind — to prevail.

As long as supposed enemies drop their guns to rescue a dangling child, there’s hope that decency can outweigh the world’s ugliness, and civilization can keep on improving. We need to keep that in mind during our current troubling times.

This column is adapted and updated from a piece first published on Sept. 21, 2016, in Counterpunch.

None

Footnotes

None

Citations

American Medical Association (AMA 11th Edition): Haught J. Human decency moves civilization forward. April 2023; 11(2). http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/decency

American Psychological Association (APA 7th Edition): Haught, J. (2023, April 8). Human decency moves civilization forward. In-Sight Publishing. 11(2). http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/decency.

Brazilian National Standards (ABNT): HAUGHT, J. Human decency moves civilization forward. In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, Fort Langley, v. 11, n. 2, 2023.

Chicago/Turabian, Author-Date (17th Edition): Haught, James. 2023. “Human decency moves civilization forward.” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal 11, no. 2 (Spring). http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/decency.

Chicago/Turabian, Notes & Bibliography (17th Edition): Haught, J Human decency moves civilization forward.” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal 11, no. 2 (April 2023). http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/decency.

Harvard: Haught, J. (2023) ‘Human decency moves civilization forwardIn-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, 11(1). <http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/decency>.

Harvard (Australian): Haught, J 2023, ‘Human decency moves civilization forwardIn-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vol. 11, no. 2, <http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/decency>.

Modern Language Association (MLA, 9th Edition): Haught, James. “Human decency moves civilization forward.” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vo.11, no. 2, 2023, http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/decency.

Vancouver/ICMJE: James H. Human decency moves civilization forward [Internet]. 2023 Apr; 11(2). Available from: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/decency

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License.

Based on work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen, or the author(s), and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors copyright their material, as well, and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

James Baldwin was brilliant on religion, too

Publisher: In-Sight Publishing

Publisher Founding: April 1, 2014

Web Domain: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com 

Location: Fort Langley, Township of Langley, British Columbia, Canada

Journal: In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Journal Founding: August 2, 2012

Frequency: Three (3) Times Per Year

Review Status: Non-Peer-Reviewed

Access: Electronic/Digital & Open Access

Fees: None (Free)

Volume Numbering: 11

Issue Numbering: 2

Section: B

Theme Type: Idea

Theme Premise: “Outliers and Outsiders”

Theme Part: 27

Formal Sub-Theme: None.

Individual Publication Date: April 8, 2023

Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2023

Author(s): James Haught

Author(s) Bio: James A. Haught was the longtime editor at the Charleston Gazette and has been the editor emeritus since 2015. He also is a senior editor of Free Inquiry magazine and was writer-in-residence for the United Coalition of Reason.

Word Count: 469

Image Credit: None

International Standard Serial Number (ISSN): 2369-6885

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citations, after the publication.*

Keywords: Adam and Eve, Billy Graham, Charles Templeton, COVID-19, cruelties of nature, Epicurus, evangelical, James Haught, logic, Mark Twain, prayers, religion, theodicy.

James Baldwin was brilliant on religion, too

James Baldwin is being frequently remembered and quoted during the racial unrest gripping our country. However, here’s something few people know: Baldwin was a popular Pentecostal preacher in Harlem at age 14 — but at 17 he renounced religion as a sham.

Years later, he described his boyhood transformation in an essay titled “Down at the Cross,” first published in The New Yorker, then reprinted in his civil-rights book, The Fire Next Time.

He told of growing up amid the bitter hopelessness of the black ghetto, watching jobless men drink and fight, resenting tyrannical treatment by his preacher stepfather, wishing for escape. The misery around him “helped to hurl me into the church,” he wrote. He soon became a junior minister at the Fireside Pentecostal Assembly, and turned out to be “a much bigger drawing card than my father.”

“That was the most frightening time of my life, and quite the most dishonest, and the resulting hysteria lent great passion to my sermons — for a while,” he said. Considering all the evils of Harlem street life, “it was my good luck — perhaps — that I found myself in the church racket instead of some other, and surrendered to a spiritual seduction long before I came to any carnal knowledge.”

The “fire and excitement” of Pentecostalism were captivating, Baldwin wrote — but he sensed subconsciously that it was bogus, and by 17 suffered “the slow crumbling of my faith.” It happened “when I began to read again … I began, fatally, with Dostoyevsky.”

He continued handing out gospel tracts, but knew they were “impossible to believe.” “I was forced, reluctantly, to realize that the bible itself had been written by men,” he noted. As for the claim that the bible writers were divinely inspired, he said he “knew by now, alas, far more about divine inspiration than I dared admit, for I knew how I worked myself up into my own visions.”

Baldwin wrote that he might have remained in the church if “there was any loving kindness to be found in the haven I represented.” But he finally concluded that “there was no love in the church. It was a mask for hatred and self-hatred and despair.” So his religion ended.

Years later, he visited Nation of Islam leader Elijah Muhammad and decided that Muhammad’s “revelations” about Satan creating “white devils” were just as irrational as Christian beliefs. When Muhammad asked about his faith, Baldwin replied: “I left the church 20 years ago, and I haven’t joined anything since.”

“And what are you now?” Muhammad queried.

“I? Now? Nothing,” the great writer replied.

We can profit from Baldwin’s insights on religion as much as his observations about race.

The column is adapted and updated from a piece first published in the Fall 2000 issue of Free Inquiry.

Bibliography

None

Footnotes

None

Citations

American Medical Association (AMA 11th Edition): Haught J. James Baldwin was brilliant on religion, too. April 2023; 11(2). http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/baldwin

American Psychological Association (APA 7th Edition): Haught, J. (2023, April 8). James Baldwin was brilliant on religion, too. In-Sight Publishing. 11(2). http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/baldwin.

Brazilian National Standards (ABNT): HAUGHT, J. James Baldwin was brilliant on religion, too. In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, Fort Langley, v. 11, n. 2, 2023.

Chicago/Turabian, Author-Date (17th Edition): Haught, James. 2023. “James Baldwin was brilliant on religion, too.” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal 11, no. 2 (Spring). http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/baldwin.

Chicago/Turabian, Notes & Bibliography (17th Edition): Haught, J James Baldwin was brilliant on religion, too.” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal 11, no. 2 (April 2023). http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/baldwin.

Harvard: Haught, J. (2023) ‘James Baldwin was brilliant on religion, tooIn-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, 11(1). <http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/baldwin>.

Harvard (Australian): Haught, J 2023, ‘James Baldwin was brilliant on religion, tooIn-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vol. 11, no. 2, <http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/baldwin>.

Modern Language Association (MLA, 9th Edition): Haught, James. “James Baldwin was brilliant on religion, too.” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vo.11, no. 2, 2023, http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/baldwin.

Vancouver/ICMJE: James H. James Baldwin was brilliant on religion, too [Internet]. 2023 Apr; 11(2). Available from: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/baldwin

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License.

Based on work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen, or the author(s), and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors copyright their material, as well, and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Logic disproves all-merciful God

Publisher: In-Sight Publishing

Publisher Founding: April 1, 2014

Web Domain: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com 

Location: Fort Langley, Township of Langley, British Columbia, Canada

Journal: In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Journal Founding: August 2, 2012

Frequency: Three (3) Times Per Year

Review Status: Non-Peer-Reviewed

Access: Electronic/Digital & Open Access

Fees: None (Free)

Volume Numbering: 11

Issue Numbering: 2

Section: B

Theme Type: Idea

Theme Premise: “Outliers and Outsiders”

Theme Part: 27

Formal Sub-Theme: None.

Individual Publication Date: April 8, 2023

Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2023

Author(s): James Haught

Author(s) Bio: James A. Haught was the longtime editor at the Charleston Gazette and has been the editor emeritus since 2015. He also is a senior editor of Free Inquiry magazine and was writer-in-residence for the United Coalition of Reason.

Word Count: 678

Image Credit: None

International Standard Serial Number (ISSN): 2369-6885

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citations, after the publication.*

Keywords: Adam and Eve, Billy Graham, Charles Templeton, COVID-19, cruelties of nature, Epicurus, evangelical, James Haught, logic, Mark Twain, prayers, religion, theodicy.

Logic disproves all-merciful God

Reason — logical thinking by intelligent minds — proves that the compassionate, all-powerful god of religion cannot exist, especially with the current planetary scourge.

Simple logic clinches it. Why is an alleged god letting countless people die? If the god cannot save them, he isn’t all-powerful. If he could, but doesn’t want to save them, he’s heartless, not all-loving. He’s a monster.

The same logical conclusion applies to tsunamis, hurricanes, tornados, earthquakes, plagues, epidemics, famines, floods and other horrors that have killed multitudes even before this pandemic. If a god could stop the tragedies, but won’t, he’s evil.

And this logic also pertains to cruelties of nature. Why would a loving god design hawks to tear rabbits apart or cobras to kill children? Only a fiend would devise a system of ruthless predator-killers.

Reason cannot disprove the existence of an evil god, but it wipes out the benevolent father-creator claimed by most churches. The only intelligent conclusion is that such a loving god cannot exist.

The first known thinker to see this obvious truth was Epicurus (341-270 B.C.). Subsequent philosophers called it “the problem of evil.” For 2,500 years, priests and theologians have squirmed and tried to offer explanations.

Some have said “we cannot know the mind of God” — but they have claimed to know the mind of God on all other topics. Other theologians have contended that hideous suffering serves a higher purpose, leading to some “greater good” — but that attempted explanation is absurd on its face. Still others have argued that today’s horrors occur because Adam and Eve committed Original Sin by eating fruit in the Garden of Eden. That’s infantile. Does anyone really think that an ancient couple biting an apple produces today’s cancers, typhoons and snakebites?

So many failing explanations have been concocted that this field of excuse-making is labeled “theodicy.” (I think it should be called “the-idiocy.”)

A few religious figures have seen through this nonsense. Charles Templeton was a dynamic Canadian evangelist who teamed up with Billy Graham in evangelical crusades. But Templeton also was highly intelligent and began to doubt supernatural dogmas. He finally renounced religion and wrote a book titled Farewell to God: My Reasons for Rejecting the Christian Faith. Regarding the problem of evil, he wrote:

All life is predicated on death. Every carnivorous creature must kill and devour another creature. It has no option. Why does God’s grand design require creatures with teeth designed to crush spines or rend flesh, claws fashioned to seize and tear, venom to paralyze, mouths to suck blood, coils to constrict and smother — even expandable jaws so that prey may be swallowed whole and alive? Nature is, in Tennyson’s vivid phrase, “red in tooth and claw,” and life is a carnival of blood. How could a loving and omnipotent God create such horrors?

The freethinking Mark Twain had a similar observation, albeit in his unique style. In Letters from the Earth, he put it this way:

The spider kills the fly, and eats it; the bird kills the spider and eats it; the wildcat kills the goose; the — well, they all kill each other. It is murder all along the line. Here are countless multitudes of creatures, and they all kill, kill, kill, they are all murderers.

Who could worship a god who devised such cruelty? A creator of that sort would be repulsive, disgusting, contemptible. Instead of praying to such a monster, thinking people have concluded that nature and evolution – survival of the fittest – has produced deadly carnivores, and there’s no magical creator to do it.

Similarly, there’s no heavenly protector to save people afflicted with COVID-19. Trusting medical science is the only hope. And it’s futile to pray for relief. Such prayers are like phone calls that reach nobody — the other end of the line is vacant.

Atheism is rooted in scientific logic. And logic proves beyond question — more so in our present global situation— that a supernatural, all-merciful, all-powerful father-creator cannot exist.

The column is adapted and updated from a piece first published in the November 2017 United Coalition of Reason newsletter.

Bibliography

None

Footnotes

None

Citations

American Medical Association (AMA 11th Edition): Haught J. Logic disproves all-merciful God. April 2023; 11(2). http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/all-merciful

American Psychological Association (APA 7th Edition): Haught, J. (2023, April 8). Logic disproves all-merciful God. In-Sight Publishing. 11(2). http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/all-merciful.

Brazilian National Standards (ABNT): HAUGHT, J. Logic disproves all-merciful God. In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, Fort Langley, v. 11, n. 2, 2023.

Chicago/Turabian, Author-Date (17th Edition): Haught, James. 2023. “Logic disproves all-merciful God.” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal 11, no. 2 (Spring). http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/all-merciful.

Chicago/Turabian, Notes & Bibliography (17th Edition): Haught, J Logic disproves all-merciful God.” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal 11, no. 2 (April 2023). http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/all-merciful.

Harvard: Haught, J. (2023) ‘Logic disproves all-merciful GodIn-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, 11(1). <http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/all-merciful>.

Harvard (Australian): Haught, J 2023, ‘Logic disproves all-merciful GodIn-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vol. 11, no. 2, <http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/all-merciful>.

Modern Language Association (MLA, 9th Edition): Haught, James. “Logic disproves all-merciful God.” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vo.11, no. 2, 2023, http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/all-merciful.

Vancouver/ICMJE: James H. Logic disproves all-merciful God [Internet]. 2023 Apr; 11(2). Available from: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/all-merciful

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License.

Based on work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen, or the author(s), and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors copyright their material, as well, and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Where do beliefs come from?

Publisher: In-Sight Publishing

Publisher Founding: April 1, 2014

Web Domain: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com 

Location: Fort Langley, Township of Langley, British Columbia, Canada

Journal: In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Journal Founding: August 2, 2012

Frequency: Three (3) Times Per Year

Review Status: Non-Peer-Reviewed

Access: Electronic/Digital & Open Access

Fees: None (Free)

Volume Numbering: 11

Issue Numbering: 2

Section: B

Theme Type: Idea

Theme Premise: “Outliers and Outsiders”

Theme Part: 27

Formal Sub-Theme: None.

Individual Publication Date: April 8, 2023

Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2023

Author(s): James Haught

Author(s) Bio: James A. Haught was the longtime editor at the Charleston Gazette and has been the editor emeritus since 2015. He also is a senior editor of Free Inquiry magazine and was writer-in-residence for the United Coalition of Reason.

Word Count: 729

Image Credit: None

International Standard Serial Number (ISSN): 2369-6885

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citations, after the publication.*

Keywords: Americans, bias reinforcement, Catholics, James Haught, Oral Roberts, Virgin Mary, volitionalism, William James.

Where do beliefs come from?

Suppose a miracle is reported — say, another Virgin Mary sighting by Catholics, or the 900-foot Jesus seen by evangelist Oral Roberts. Some Americans will embrace this news joyfully as evidence of the holy, while others will be skeptical.

Here’s my question: What causes some people to believe such reports and others to doubt them? What is different inside the minds of the two groups? What makes believers and doubters? I really don’t know — and neither do any of the believers or doubters, I suspect.

This quandary applies to more than religion. It covers all human belief systems: What causes some people to be political conservatives and others liberals? What creates rebels and conformists, puritans and playboys, social reformers and traditionalists, militarists and pacifists, gun-lovers and gun-haters, environmentalists and industry-boosters, death penalty advocates and foes?

A little over a half-century ago, why did some Americans support racial segregation and some integration? A century before that, why did some clergymen uphold slavery and others denounce it?

Nearly everyone has a “worldview” encompassing such issues — but does anyone know how he or she acquired it? Where do beliefs come from? Over the years, I put this question to various psychologists, but I never got a response I could understand.

If you ask, say, a conservative why he’s conservative, you’ll probably get an answer something like: “Because I’m intelligent and can see the obvious correctness of that position.” And a liberal would say exactly the same. Neither really knows why.

Odd “agendas” of beliefs exist. Protestant fundamentalists usually want to censor sexy movies, ban abortion, impose the death penalty, punish gays, allow pistol-carrying, ban marijuana, curtail sex education, reduce welfare, outlaw go-go girls, require prayer in schools, and similar things. But why is there a link between sexual taboos, executions and welfare? Offhand, the subjects don’t seem related.

Conversely, secular liberals generally back an opposite agenda on all those subjects. And Catholics often are switch-hitters, opposing sex while embracing share-the-wealth efforts. How are these outlooks implanted?

In psychology, there’s a factor called “bias reinforcement.” It means that people with certain inclinations constantly look for evidence to back their views, and shrug off opposing evidence. Does that help explain beliefs? Do we condition ourselves, like Pavlov’s dog, to give knee-jerk reactions to stimuli? Also, some new research implies that beliefs may be partly genetic, locked into our DNA.

More than a century ago, in a lecture titled “The Will to Believe,” famed philosopher-novelist-psychologist William James told Ivy League students that people believe what they want to believe — what their personal orientations draw them to accept — and that this human instinct is desirable. This is called “volitionalism” by scholars. But it really doesn’t explain anything. For example, it doesn’t clarify why evangelist Jerry Falwell was drawn to believe the word-for-word truth of the bible, but renowned astronomer Carl Sagan was drawn to reject it.

In some cases, circumstantial causes of beliefs are visible. For example, women traditionally held nurturing roles while men went forth to conquer. So women tend to be “liberal,” supporting school lunches, health care, welfare and such, while men are inclined to militarism. Blacks have been cheated in America for so long that they naturally see society from an underdog view. Growing up in a working-class family, or in poverty — instead of being born to wealth and privilege — undoubtedly inclines many to embrace labor union beliefs and egalitarian causes. But there are exceptions to all these patterns. And other belief roots are too unfathomable for such simplistic explanations.

The beliefs of our society as a whole have evolved, too. When I was young in the 1950s, gays were put in prison, and it also was a crime to look at a “girlie” magazine, buy a lottery ticket, marry someone of a different race, have sex out of wedlock, and other sundry things. Today, the beliefs behind those laws seem as antiquated as powdered wigs.

In the end, I’m still mostly unable to deduce why people are religious believers or skeptics, political conservatives or liberals, moral puritans or fun-seekers, military hawks or doves, and all the rest. Yet these are powerful psychological forces that shape the very nature of our society, and its internal conflicts.

Where do beliefs come from? It is a puzzlement.

The column is adapted and updated from a piece first published in the February-March 2014 issue of Free Inquiry.

Bibliography

None

Footnotes

None

Citations

American Medical Association (AMA 11th Edition): Haught J. Where do beliefs come from?. April 2023; 11(2). http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/beliefs

American Psychological Association (APA 7th Edition): Haught, J. (2023, April 8). Where do beliefs come from?. In-Sight Publishing. 11(2). http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/beliefs.

Brazilian National Standards (ABNT): HAUGHT, J. Where do beliefs come from?. In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, Fort Langley, v. 11, n. 2, 2023.

Chicago/Turabian, Author-Date (17th Edition): Haught, James. 2023. “Where do beliefs come from?.” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal 11, no. 2 (Spring). http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/beliefs.

Chicago/Turabian, Notes & Bibliography (17th Edition): Haught, J Where do beliefs come from?.” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal 11, no. 2 (April 2023). http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/beliefs.

Harvard: Haught, J. (2023) ‘Where do beliefs come from?In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, 11(1). <http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/beliefs>.

Harvard (Australian): Haught, J 2023, ‘Where do beliefs come from?In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vol. 11, no. 2, <http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/beliefs>.

Modern Language Association (MLA, 9th Edition): Haught, James. “Where do beliefs come from?.” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vo.11, no. 2, 2023, http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/beliefs.

Vancouver/ICMJE: James H. Where do beliefs come from? [Internet]. 2023 Apr; 11(2). Available from: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/beliefs

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License.

Based on work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen, or the author(s), and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors copyright their material, as well, and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

There’s little honesty in theology

Publisher: In-Sight Publishing

Publisher Founding: April 1, 2014

Web Domain: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com 

Location: Fort Langley, Township of Langley, British Columbia, Canada

Journal: In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Journal Founding: August 2, 2012

Frequency: Three (3) Times Per Year

Review Status: Non-Peer-Reviewed

Access: Electronic/Digital & Open Access

Fees: None (Free)

Volume Numbering: 11

Issue Numbering: 2

Section: B

Theme Type: Idea

Theme Premise: “Outliers and Outsiders”

Theme Part: 27

Formal Sub-Theme: None.

Individual Publication Date: April 8, 2023

Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2023

Author(s): James Haught

Author(s) Bio: James A. Haught was the longtime editor at the Charleston Gazette and has been the editor emeritus since 2015. He also is a senior editor of Free Inquiry magazine and was writer-in-residence for the United Coalition of Reason.

Word Count: 895

Image Credit: None

International Standard Serial Number (ISSN): 2369-6885

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citations, after the publication.*

Keywords: Ambrose Bierce, Darwin, Episcopal Bishop James Pike, God, James Haught, Jesus, John F. Haught, miracles, National House of Bishops, theology, Thomas Jefferson.

There’s little honesty in theology

My far-flung family is quite diverse.

John F. Haught is a renowned Catholic theologian who has produced a flood of erudite books. A Haught woman in the Southwest wrote several lurid sex novels. And I’ve churned out a string of skeptic-agnostic books and magazine essays. I once sent both of my relatives a joint note saying that our collective writing “shows there are holy Haughts, heathen Haughts and horny Haughts.” Neither answered.

John Haught is highly esteemed as a pinnacle of “sophisticated” theology, a penetrating thinker who probes the divine through abstruse logic beyond the grasp of average folks. His writings carry weight in the most prestigious journals. But when I try to follow his messages, they seem goofy.

He has attempted, for instance, to prove that survival-of-the-fittest evolution presents a “grand drama” orchestrated by God. All the ruthless slaughter of prey by predators, all the mass starvation of desperate victims who lose their food supply, even the extinction of 99 percent of all species that ever lived — are part of “an evolutionary drama that has been aroused, though not coercively driven, by a God of infinite love,” he wrote in the Washington Post. He added: “Darwin’s ragged portrait of life is not so distressing after all. Theologically understood, biological evolution is part of an immense cosmic journey into the incomprehensible mystery of God.”

Got that? God is incomprehensible — yet theology is sure his “infinite love” spawned nature’s slaughterhouse of foxes ripping rabbits apart, sharks gashing seals, pythons suffocating pigs and the rest of the “grand drama of life.”

What evidence supports this peculiar conclusion? None — just trust theology.

That’s why I’ve decided that there is no such thing as sophisticated theology. At bottom, the issue is simple: Either supernatural spirits exist, or they don’t. Either heavens, hells, gods, devils, saviors, miracles and the rest are real, or they’re concoctions of the human imagination.

It boils down to honesty. A truthful person shouldn’t claim to know things he or she doesn’t know. Theologians are in the business of declaring “truths” that nobody possibly can prove. They do so without evidence. In contrast, an honest individual admits: I don’t know.

Years ago, as a young newspaper reporter, I encountered theology when I covered the heresy trial of Episcopal Bishop James Pike of California. Actually, it was a pre-trial. Heresy charges had been lodged against him because he doubted concepts such as the miraculous Virgin Birth, the miraculous Incarnation of God into Jesus and the mystical Trinity. The National House of Bishops met at Wheeling, W.Va., in 1966 to weigh the charges. During the session, Pike mostly hung out with us newshounds, making wisecracks — not debating holy gobbledygook with fellow bishops. In the end, the church waffled. Pike was censured and charges were sidelined without a heresy inquisition. I guess the bishops didn’t want to be laughingstocks in a replay of something akin to the 1925 Scopes monkey trial.

Around America, lofty universities pay handsome salaries to theologians who publish grand treatises on the nature of God — although they have no more proof than did the Aztec priests who said the sun would vanish if they stopped sacrificing human victims to an invisible feathered serpent.

One big-time university theologian came from my city of Charleston, W.Va. Thomas Jonathan Jackson Altizer — named for his ancestor, General Thomas “Stonewall” Jackson, who fought for slavery in the Civil War — caused a ruckus when he spawned “God is dead” theology.

Altizer wrote some things that seemed logical to me: “Every man today who is open to experience knows that God is absent,” he said in The Gospel of Christian Atheism. That’s true enough. God seems absent, as far as any rational observer can tell. However, Altizer concocted a bizarre scenario: God formerly existed and created the universe, he said — but God decided to terminate himself by entering into Jesus, then dying on a cross and ceasing to exist. Hence, God is dead.

This peculiar theology caused a storm in the 1960s. Fundamentalists raged. Time magazine wrote cover stories. Altizer received Christian hate mail and death threats. He retired in Pennsylvania, occasionally giving theology lectures, and finally died in 2018.

His theology is interesting — like that of the Aztecs and their invisible feathered serpent. But they both have little to do with reality.

Thomas Jefferson refused to let theology be taught at his new University of Virginia. He considered theological assertions to be “unintelligible abstractions . . . absolutely beyond the comprehension of the human mind.” He ridiculed the Trinity concept “that three are one, and one is three; and yet that the one is not three, and the three are not one.”

Ambrose Bierce wrote: “Theology is a thing of unreason altogether, an edifice of assumption and dreams, a superstructure without a substructure.” And legendary newspaperman H.L. Mencken opined: “There is no possibility whatsoever of reconciling science and theology, at least in Christendom. Either Jesus rose from the dead or he didn’t. If he did, then Christianity becomes plausible; if he did not, then it is sheer nonsense.”

Of course, like every human phenomenon, religion should be studied by sociologists and psychologists. But theology itself consists of assertions about spirits. I can’t imagine why universities consider it a worthy field of scholarship.

The column is adapted and updated from a piece first published in the February-March 2014 issue of Free Inquiry.

Bibliography

None

Footnotes

None

Citations

American Medical Association (AMA 11th Edition): Haught J. There’s little honesty in theology. April 2023; 11(2). http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/theology-honesty

American Psychological Association (APA 7th Edition): Haught, J. (2023, April 8). There’s little honesty in theology. In-Sight Publishing. 11(2). http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/theology-honesty.

Brazilian National Standards (ABNT): HAUGHT, J. There’s little honesty in theology. In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, Fort Langley, v. 11, n. 2, 2023.

Chicago/Turabian, Author-Date (17th Edition): Haught, James. 2023. “There’s little honesty in theology.” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal 11, no. 2 (Spring). http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/theology-honesty.

Chicago/Turabian, Notes & Bibliography (17th Edition): Haught, J There’s little honesty in theology.” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal 11, no. 2 (April 2023). http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/theology-honesty.

Harvard: Haught, J. (2023) ‘There’s little honesty in theologyIn-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, 11(1). <http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/theology-honesty>.

Harvard (Australian): Haught, J 2023, ‘There’s little honesty in theologyIn-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vol. 11, no. 2, <http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/theology-honesty>.

Modern Language Association (MLA, 9th Edition): Haught, James. “There’s little honesty in theology.” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vo.11, no. 2, 2023, http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/theology-honesty.

Vancouver/ICMJE: James H. There’s little honesty in theology [Internet]. 2023 Apr; 11(2). Available from: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/theology-honesty

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License.

Based on work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen, or the author(s), and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors copyright their material, as well, and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

The goofier the tale, the more it’s swallowed

Publisher: In-Sight Publishing

Publisher Founding: April 1, 2014

Web Domain: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com 

Location: Fort Langley, Township of Langley, British Columbia, Canada

Journal: In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Journal Founding: August 2, 2012

Frequency: Three (3) Times Per Year

Review Status: Non-Peer-Reviewed

Access: Electronic/Digital & Open Access

Fees: None (Free)

Volume Numbering: 11

Issue Numbering: 2

Section: B

Theme Type: Idea

Theme Premise: “Outliers and Outsiders”

Theme Part: 27

Formal Sub-Theme: None.

Individual Publication Date: April 8, 2023

Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2023

Author(s): James Haught

Author(s) Bio: James A. Haught was the longtime editor at the Charleston Gazette and has been the editor emeritus since 2015. He also is a senior editor of Free Inquiry magazine and was writer-in-residence for the United Coalition of Reason.

Word Count: 609

Image Credit: None

International Standard Serial Number (ISSN): 2369-6885

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citations, after the publication.*

Keywords: Aum Shinrikyo, James Haught, Mothman, Richard Gere, The Mothman Prophecies, West Virginia.

The goofier the tale, the more it’s swallowed

When the Richard Gere-starring “The Mothman Prophecies” was released some years ago, it made me think about the eagerness of certain people to believe nutty things, especially since it claimed to deal with supposed happenings that I reported on back in the day.

In the 1960s, I wrote newspaper articles on the Mothman craze in my home state of West Virginia. After witnesses reported a “man-size” bird with a 10-foot wingspan and glowing red eyes, I figured they had seen a huge crane in the night and gotten overexcited. But the Mothman tale was unstoppable. Ardent fans didn’t want an ornithological explanation. Speculation grew.

Flying saucer buffs — who flock to such bizarre happenings like, uh, moths to a flame — held a worldwide “Congress of Scientific Ufologists” at a Charleston, W.Va., hotel in June 1969. Sponsors said a Philadelphia mystic who communicated with “space intelligences” foresaw a wave of West Virginia UFO appearances during the session. But none occurred.

The Mothman craze was similar to the much-publicized Braxton County Monster uproar during the same era — but I won’t bore you with the 584th retelling of the Braxton sighting.

The reason for my focus on such dingaling topics is because someone sent me a book titled The Abduction Enigma. It says matter-of-factly that “between 3 million and 6 million Americans have been abducted” onto UFOs by space aliens who then experimented on them. A website offered to perform “alien implant removal and deactivation” for victims.

I’ll place a wager: If you concocted the most preposterous claim imaginable — say, that Mothman reappeared and told you to start a cult worshipping him — I’ll bet some followers would join your movement and give you money. The record contains plenty of corroboration for my claim. For example:

  • Heaven’s Gate commune members believed that if they “shed their containers” (committed suicide), they would be transported magically to a UFO behind the Hale-Bopp comet. So they engaged in ritual suicide.
  • Followers of Japan’s infamous Aum Shinrikyo (“Supreme Truth”) sect worshipped their guru so fervently that they kissed his big toe, paid $2,000 each for a drink of his bathwater and paid $10,000 to sip his blood. At his command, they planted nerve gas in Tokyo’s subway that killed more than a dozen commuters.
  • Science fiction writer L. Ron Hubbard declared that planet Earth was an alien colony 75 million years ago, and troublemakers were exterminated by nuclear blasts. Their spirits, called “thetans,” became the souls of all humans. This assertion turned into Scientology, a moneymaking religion that has attracted such Hollywood stars as Tom Cruise and John Travolta.
  • Americans spend a huge amount each year on calls to psychic hotlines.

What does it mean that certain earnest, trusting people are eager to believe astounding things — so much that they’ll part with their money or even their lives? It’s baffling.

Back when Mothman and the Braxton creature were hot topics, my cousin and I — young renegades — hatched a scheme. We had some brilliant reflectors that had been pried from those old-time wooden guardrails along roads. We plotted to hide among roadside trees at night, step into the glare of approaching headlights, run away — and then wait for hysterical news reports about the glowing-eyed monster prowling West Virginia.

We never did it, but I still relish the memory of our youthful scheming. If we had pulled it off, eager believers today probably would be recalling the mysterious visitor with gleaming eyes who haunted West Virginia, then vanished. Who knows? Maybe it would have been a blockbuster follow-up to “The Mothman Prophecies.”

The column is adapted and updated from a nationally syndicated piece in the April 25, 2002, Charleston Gazette.

Bibliography

None

Footnotes

None

Citations

American Medical Association (AMA 11th Edition): Haught J. The goofier the tale, the more it’s swallowed. April 2023; 11(2). http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/tale

American Psychological Association (APA 7th Edition): Haught, J. (2023, April 8). The goofier the tale, the more it’s swallowed. In-Sight Publishing. 11(2). http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/tale.

Brazilian National Standards (ABNT): HAUGHT, J. The goofier the tale, the more it’s swallowed. In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, Fort Langley, v. 11, n. 2, 2023.

Chicago/Turabian, Author-Date (17th Edition): Haught, James. 2023. “The goofier the tale, the more it’s swallowed.” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal 11, no. 2 (Spring). http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/tale.

Chicago/Turabian, Notes & Bibliography (17th Edition): Haught, J The goofier the tale, the more it’s swallowed.” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal 11, no. 2 (April 2023). http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/tale.

Harvard: Haught, J. (2023) ‘The goofier the tale, the more it’s swallowedIn-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, 11(1). <http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/tale>.

Harvard (Australian): Haught, J 2023, ‘The goofier the tale, the more it’s swallowedIn-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vol. 11, no. 2, <http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/tale>.

Modern Language Association (MLA, 9th Edition): Haught, James. “The goofier the tale, the more it’s swallowed.” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vo.11, no. 2, 2023, http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/tale.

Vancouver/ICMJE: James H. The goofier the tale, the more it’s swallowed [Internet]. 2023 Apr; 11(2). Available from: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/tale

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License.

Based on work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen, or the author(s), and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors copyright their material, as well, and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Is Humanism Compatible with Indigeneity?

Publisher: In-Sight Publishing

Publisher Founding: March 1, 2014

Web Domain: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com 

Location: Fort Langley, Township of Langley, British Columbia, Canada

Journal: In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Journal Founding: August 2, 2012

Frequency: Three (3) Times Per Year

Review Status: Non-Peer-Reviewed

Access: Electronic/Digital & Open Access

Fees: None (Free)

Volume Numbering: 11

Issue Numbering: 2

Section: B

Theme Type: Idea

Theme Premise: “Outliers and Outsiders”

Theme Part: 27

Formal Sub-Theme: None.

Individual Publication Date: April 8, 2023

Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2023

Author(s): Dr. Lloyd Hawkeye Robertson

Author(s) Bio: Dr. Lloyd Hawkeye Robertson is a Registered Doctoral Psychologist with expertise in Counselling Psychology, Educational Psychology, and Human Resource Development. He earned qualifications in Social Work too. Duly note, he has five postsecondary degrees, of which 3 are undergraduate level. He is the President of the New Enlightenment Project. His research interests include memes as applied to self-knowledge, the evolution of religion and spirituality, the aboriginal self’s structure, residential school syndrome, prior learning recognition and assessment, and the treatment of attention deficit disorder and suicide ideation. In addition, he works in anxiety and trauma, addictions, and psycho-educational assessment, and relationship, family, and group counselling.

Word Count: 3,739

Image Credit: None

International Standard Serial Number (ISSN): 2369-6885

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citations, after the publication.*

Keywords: aboriginal, Amerindians, Bill Mussel, Brave Heart, Canadian, Chris DiCarlo, Christian, Christianity, Dakota Sioux, Edwin Denig, Enlightenment, Enlightenment, Francis Widdowson, George Catlin, Great Spirit, Humanism, Indigeneity, indigenous, Inuit, Keith Goulet, Lloyd Hawkeye Robertson, Metis, Mother Earth, Native Spirituality, New Enlightenment Project, Saulteaux, Secular humanism, Steven Pinker, The Evolved Self, Wokism.

Is Humanism Compatible with Indigeneity?

Lloyd Hawkeye Robertson, President

New Enlightenment Project: A Canadian Humanist Initiative

In this essay I argue that humanism is perfectly compatible with aboriginality; however, its compatibility with “indigeneity” will depend on the meaning assigned to the word. Connotative meaning not only impacts on the immediate message, it can influence the trajectory of thought, making definition necessary at the beginning of meaningful discourse. The term, “humanism,” involves the belief that science, reason and compassion can lead to material and spiritual progress. As defined by the late Carl Sagan (1996) the word “spiritual” exists within the realm of science conveying our ability to “grasp the intricacy, beauty and subtlety of life” that includes a “sense of elation and humility combined” (p. 29).

This humanist belief system flows from the Enlightenment that began in 17th Century Europe. In The Evolved Self  (Robertson, 2020), I suggest this Enlightenment honoured the individualism that was already inherent in having a self that was capable of taking oneself as an object in remembered past events and imagined future ones. I argued that this skill had been in existence for at least 3 millennia and that organized religions evolved to put constraints or limitations on the self in the interest of preserving collectivist societies. The question posited in the title to this article then becomes, “Is the humanist rejection of supernatural explanations in favour of scientific and rational understandings compatible with cultures aboriginal or indigenous to the Americas?”

The connotative power of words was impressed on me in 1982 when I chaired a committee reporting to the Regina Public School Board on the education provided aboriginal students. Naming our committee proved to be more controversial than our examination of text books or teacher training. The descendents of those who signed treaties with the Canadian government insisted the word “Indian” be in our name arguing, “It was Indians who signed the treaties, and we should honour to treaties and be known as Indians.” Emphasizing our commonality, the Metis, who were recognized as an aboriginal people in Canada’s constitution that year, argued that the more inclusive word “native” should be used. This resulted in the somewhat confusing name: “The Indian and Native Committee on Education for the Regina Public School Board.”

The term “aboriginal,” means “original inhabitants” and its use is controversial when used to describe descendents of multiple migrations. For example, are the descendants of the Clovis peoples who settled most of the American supercontinent more aboriginal than the Dene who appeared around 15,000 years later? Can we call the Inuit, whose ancestry can be traced to the Siberian Birnirk people and who replaced the now extinct Paleo-Eskimo people in the Arctic about 1,000 years ago aboriginal while denying the term to the Norse who were simultaneously migrating from the other direction (Raff et al., 2015; Raghavan et al., 2014)?  In accordance with modern usage, this essay refers to all peoples who inhabited the Americas before the 16th Century European migration by the adjective “aboriginal” or by the proper nouns Amerindian, Inuit and Metis.

Those who originally peopled the Americas were explorers and adventurers. They established empires in Central and South America, but in North America sovereign clan based bands of 100 to 1000 people were the norm. They were not particularly adept conservationists and during their watch woolly mammoths, giant mastodons, ground sloths, glyptodonts, bear-sized beavers, saber-toothed tigers, American lions, cheetahs, camels, and horses all went extinct (Shermer, 2004). Like humans everywhere else on the planet, Amerindians and later the Inuit and Metis made war. War was the cause of death of 30 to 35 percent of the aboriginal populations in northern British Columba from 1,500 BCE to 500 CE (Shermer, 2004). While women and children were often taken as captives following war, there is documentation of entire populations being murdered (Denig, 1856/1961; Widdowson & Howard, 2008).

Humanists often trace religious precepts to notions of supernatural agency developed by pre-historic hunters and gatherers. Equating the animism practised by aboriginal peoples with the religious dogmatism that served to constrain science is an over-reach. Animism, of course, flowed from our evolved ability to attribute motives to others. In filling a very human need to answer the question “why” the agency we attribute to other humans was often attributed to lakes, mountains, weather systems and other species by Neolithic peoples. It would be logically consistent to assert that these animate forces would have wants and needs that could be appeased by human intervention. “If everyone “knows” that a person needs to make a sacrifice to the sentient spirit of a lake to ensure a safe journey across, then one makes the sacrifice” (Robertson, 2014, p. 31).   Such beliefs are not religiously held if held tentatively subject to new evidence.  In this example, such new evidence could be provided by the repeated successful crossings of people who did not make the prescribed sacrifice. Traditional aboriginal beliefs were more pragmatic than religious.

While I was on the staff of the Saskatchewan Indian Federated College during the 1980s,  a Dakota Sioux elder used to say “Dem Crees, we taught them everything they know.” Historically, he had a point. During the 18th century the Cree, armed with Hudson Bay rifles, drove the Sioux out of the northern Great Plains; but they adopted many of the cultural practices of the Sioux such as powwows, sun dances, horse dances and the heyoka.  They did not convert to the religion of the Sioux in a religious sense, but they chose practices that had worked for the peoples already present. George Catlin, a U.S. American artist who married a Plains Cree woman at the beginning of the 18th century and joined her band described these pragmatists as a nation of atheists. Edwin Denig, who married an Assiniboine woman at the beginning of the 19th century and joined her band was surprised that they had no belief in a creator god and that they asserted that life began when the sun’s rays impregnated the ground (Denig, 1856/1961). This understanding can be used to teach the theory of evolution since life began in earth’s primordial shallow seas warmed by the sun’s rays and continues to be plant based to this day. So where did the idea begin that there is a Creator-god to whom we could pray?

There are creators in some aboriginal mythologies. Saulteaux elders have shared that while their Anishinaabe tradition included a great spirit that spirit was not a creator. Creation of plants and animals was left to four lesser spirits who acted in the spirit of the great one, and they suggested it would be disrespectful to pray to the Great Spirit. In 1871 Wanapum tribal leader and shaman, Smohalla, declared:

It is good for man and woman to be together on the earth…. We do not know how the earth was made, nor do we say who made it.  The earth was peopled and their hearts are good, and my mind is that it is as it ought to be.  The world was peopled by whites and Indians and they should all grow as one flesh. (Bell, 2011)

Smohalla’s words suggest humility and mental flexibility – necessary qualities for the development of knowledge. I have suggested that the traditional stone medicine wheels that dot the Great Plains demonstrate a similar flexibility (Robertson, 2021). The circle can be taken to represent holism but the contents vary. Few of the estimated 343 wheels were divided into four. One in southern Alberta has 26 spokes. Many have no spokes at all with some featuring parallel lines and others featuring petro forms both inside and outside the circle. The number of variations suggests flexibility in thought and representation. Such flexibility allows for new evidence based approaches to life’s challenges. Medicine wheels can be constructed to represent the intersection of two or more variables. They can also be used to illustrate a variety of concepts not necessarily based on the number four which in itself has no magical power.

Secular humanism is a philosophical and ethical stance that emphasizes the value and agency of human beings, with an emphasis on critical thinking and evidence. It is relevant to aboriginal peoples in several ways: 1) A humanist perspective emphasizes individual agency leading to people taking control of their own lives, communities, and cultural heritage; 2) Humanism values diversity and respect for different cultures, beliefs, and lifestyles; and 3) Evidence-based decision-making as embraced by humanism can be seen as important for aboriginal communities in making decisions about their future and addressing social, economic, and environmental challenges. Respect for all cultures involves accepting that people can benefit from the knowledge science and reason creates, and they can enrich their cultures accordingly. While it would be tempting to declare, “Yes, humanism and aboriginality are compatible with each other,” such a position ignores a significant challenge mounted by people who call this approach “assimilation.”

During the first decade of this century I presented at six annual conferences of the Native Mental Health Association of Canada on such topics as the use of prior learning and assessment in building the aboriginal self, the self in family and community, residential school syndrome, attention deficit disorder, youth suicide, and building community. Other presenters focused on “The Medicine Wheel” which they assumed was a circle with four basic quadrants: mental, emotional, spiritual and physical. These presenters often attacked the “Bering Strait Theory” that holds that humans, perhaps as early as 20,000 years ago migrated to the Americas from Asia. As with Christian literalists who attack the theory of evolution, these presenters defined the word “theory” to be a guess. They declared that there is a thing called “western science” that holds the individual to be completely separate from the object of investigation; and they asserted that these “scientists” believe they are infallible, exact and accurate, unbiased, objective and impartial. Humanists will recognize the strawman created here as the actual opposite of science which holds that human beings are subjective and we need to find means to reduce our subjectivity to advance knowledge.

At mid-decade, Bill Mussel, president of the Native Mental Health Association of Canada, began talking circle discussions with presenters and members of the association as to whether the preferred term to be used with Amerindian, Inuit and Metis peoples should be “aboriginal” or “indigenous.”  Mussel said he liked both terms but preferred “indigenous” because it implies a people who are rooted in the land. From the Latin indigena, the word refers to a plant or animal that lives, grows, originates or is naturally occurring to a particular area. Those who asserted that there is such a thing as “western science” contrasted it with “indigenous knowledge” which was rooted in North America. The implications of this particular word usage were demonstrated at an Ontario university while these discussions were being held.

In 2005 philosopher Chris DiCarlo suggested to a graduate class at Wilfrid Laurier University that given our common human origins in East Africa any racist philosophy is untenable. When a student complained that DiCarlo was being “insensitive” to the aboriginal teaching that a creator placed aboriginal people to the American continents, he suggested a class debate on the subject. The debate did not happen and he was made to appear before a disciplinary committee for being disrespectful of  this “indigenous knowledge” (DiCarlo, 2005; Kaill, 2005). His teaching contract was not renewed.  Conversely, many aboriginal elders end their prayers with the phrase “All my relations.” This phrase denotes the unity of all living things and can be taken to support the theory of evolution and the united ancestry of the human race.

In discussing the DiCarlo example, Cree/Metis elder and historian, Keith Goulet, said there is a spectrum of views associated with aboriginal or indigenous spirituality similar to the spectrum that exists within the sects of Christianity. I have previously referred to the more “fundamentalist” indigenous spirituality on this spectrum as Native Spirituality (Robertson, 2014) in describing how it was used to discipline an elder support worker in a northern Cree community.

While the Plains Cree of the 19th Century adopted many of the practises of Siouxian culture, the Cree who remained in the boreal forest did not. In the 1990s I assisted one such community battling the problem of youth suicide (Robertson, 2015). With the assistance of community elders, we were successful. This community had voluntarily become Anglican in the mid-19th Century, and the elders identified as Anglican. For the band’s health department, located some 80 kilometres away, this was “problematic.” The department conducted workshops and sponsored cultural gatherings promoting “Native Spirituality,” but the elders appeared unmoved. They recognized that historically their people had not always been Christian, but they said many of the practices promoted by the “traditionalists,” including powwows and sun dances, had never been part of the Woodland Cree culture, and the efforts to convert them to this new Native Spirituality were felt to be oppressive. The local elder support worker was threatened with disciplinary action for failing to promote Native Spirituality with sufficient vigor, and this led to legal action.

The band health staff did not view their efforts to be one of oppression but one of healing.

Brave Heart (2003), a Lakota Sioux, popularized the notion that all Amerindian peoples suffer from historic trauma irrespective of their actual history. This trauma is “awakened” using audiovisual materials and role play, so that a “cathartic working-through necessary for healing” (p. 11) can commence using prayer, smudging, pipe ceremonies, sweat lodge ceremonies and medicine wheel teachings.  One participant in a workshop on Prior Learning Assessment and Recognition that was sponsored by the local community college did not perceive this approach as healing stating:

Our provincial Department of Higher Education and Manpower has no more business teaching Native Spirituality—with the intent of conversion—than it has teaching Tibetan Buddhism…. Imagine what towering indignation would have been engendered had (the PLAR instructor) been a Catholic and she had asked us to burn incense, to partake in Holy Sacraments, to confess our sins, and tied problem-solving to the four points of the Cross. (Robertson, 2011, pp. 99-100)

In the mind of this participant smudging, the burning of sweet grass often used in a cleansing ceremony, was like the burning of incense in the Catholic tradition. The pipe ceremony was thought of as like holy sacraments. The presumption that all participants suffer from trauma from which they need to publically confess was felt to be like the concept of original sin. The use of the four part reified medicine wheel seemed to have a similar function to the Catholic cross. The parallels between Christianity and Native Spirituality are not accidental.

Earlier in this article I quoted Smohalla as saying in 1871 that he did not know who created Earth, but that it was good that all races work together. By 1875 he was a changed prophet. He had climbed a mountain in what is now Washington State and received a new vision that led him to predict a day of redemption when people of European descent would be removed from the American continents leaving indigenous people to resume their pre-ordained way of life. At that time the spirits of the deceased who were true to their aboriginal ways would return to their bodies in a great resurrection. Smohalla, who was the first recorded aboriginal leader to use the concept of Mother Earth (Gill, 1991), told his followers to not farm as that was like taking a knife to her bosom. They were also to not participate in mining as that was chipping away at her bones. He was not the first aboriginal prophet to preach a messianic religion.

Wovoka, became a 19th century Paiute shaman after being adopted and raised by Christian missionaries. He taught that by living piously and by performing a type of round dance called “the ghost dance” the Europeans would disappear from the Americas, the buffalo would return, and the way of life of people aboriginal to North America would be restored. Wovoka performed levitation and bullet stopping tricks to convince onlookers of the power of his magic. As the new religion spread northward his Lakota Sioux disciples came to believe the ghost shirts worn by dancers would stop the bullets of the white men (Robertson, 2014). The dream of Smohalla and Wovoka to rid North America of Europeans did not materialize, but many of the teachings were codified and exported to other aboriginal peoples where they continued to evolve protected by a smoldering sense of entitlement.

The modern medicine wheel, often known as “The Medicine Wheel,” is divided into quadrants representing physical, emotional, mental and spiritual selves. The four quadrants  are said to be symbolically representative of the “four” races of the earth: red and yellow; black and white, but many readers will recognize that the order and colours of these so-called races come from a Christian children’s song “Jesus Loves the Little Children.” It is said that this medicine wheel divides the stages of life into four: childhood, adolescence, adult and old age; but adolescence was unknown to Neolithic societies having been invented by European civilization with the advent of the industrial revolution.   This medicine wheel is said to count the four seasons failing to note that the Woodland Cree had six.  Widdowson and Howard (2013) questioned whether the concept itself could be used to advance critical thinking, the dissemination of abstract ideas, or the organization of complex information into constituent parts:

While it appears that the Medicine Wheel . . . offers a more systematic pedagogical technique (as compared to concrete conceptualizations in hunter-gatherer societies), this turns out to be a mirage. The “constituent parts” that emerge from the “breaking down of complex situations” are arbitrarily constructed, the only basis for which is a spiritual belief about the significance of the number four. (p. 294)

The Medicine Wheel critiqued by Widdowson and Howard had non-aboriginal origins. The word “mental” has no direct translation in any Algonquian language native to Canada. For example, the Cree word/phrase Kiskwew (literally, “s/he is crazy”) is used to represent the term in northern Saskatchewan to the angst of practicing mental health workers. It can be inferred that whoever first added the word mental to the Medicine Wheel was thinking in a European language, and we need to consider the possibility that it was influenced by the New Age Movement that in the mid-20th century embraced and promoted a Native Spirituality with non-aboriginal pipe carriers. While Native Spirituality is situated on the spectrum of aboriginal spiritualities referenced by Elder Goulet, more traditional spiritualities described here were local to the band, tribe or nation. In contrast, Native Spirituality can be considered to be linked to pan-Indianism where indigineity is viewed to be universal.

My daughter and I attended a powwow on the Kahnawake reserve near Montreal in 2002, and we recognized all but one of the drum songs and dances as being from the northern plains. We attended a family reunion on the Ashcroft reserve in western British Columbia. The drum songs at the honor feast were again plains culture except for one traditional hand drum number. The export of plains culture goes beyond songs and dances. In his study of two bands in Nova Scotia, Poliandri (2011) noted that what is understood as Mi’kmaq spirituality as practiced by traditionalists often involves the beliefs and ceremonies of the Sioux and Blackfoot. While the older spiritualities may be practiced in local communities, the pan-Indian Native Spirituality is recognized by universities and the general public. I have often had students tell me they learned to be aboriginal by attending university. I want to tell them that it is likely their home communities never had aspects of culture taught at university, and in any case their traditional beliefs and practices were not held religiously, that is for all time and place.

At the beginning of the millennium Steven Pinker (2003) noted that a proto-religious movement had coalesced around three myths: the blank slate, the ghost in the machine, and the noble savage. The blank slate is the notion that we are created by culture and thus are infinitely malleable dependent on cultural change with a particular emphasis on how words are used. The ghost in the machine myth supposes some essence prior to birth that, for example, might determine that doctors made a mistake in naming an infant with a penis a boy.  The noble savage myth supposes that pre-colonization civilizations and indigenous knowledge were inherently superior but that this “better world” was destroyed during the process of colonization. Humanists will recognize the parallels with fundamentalist Christianity in 1) being “born again” as a new person, 2) having an essence or soul that defines a true self, and 3) needing salvation from original sin. This new religious movement that includes but transcends Native Spirituality is, as yet, without an official name but is often referred to as “Wokism.”

In 1493 a Papal Bull proclaimed that America was unoccupied and that any aboriginal people found had no right of ownership and could be taken as slaves. Although this original “Doctrine of Discovery” was, in effect, modified by subsequent Papal Bulls, humanism was founded on the idea that no religious order should be able to make such pronouncements and that humans are self-determined knowledge producers in their own right. This is compatible with the traditional aboriginal stance of being humble in one’s beliefs that are dependent on evidence and context. While humanism is compatible with more traditional aboriginalities, it would find those who proclaim superior moral authority based on authority “rooted” in the land to be “problematic.”

In summation, the Enlightenment is a technology that allows for knowledge creation and should thus be available to all cultures ensuring their progressive advancement by the people who constitute those cultures. Humanism is an ethical and moral stance that grew out of the European Enlightenment that recognizes the worth and value of all people. Traditional aboriginal cultures practiced animism, and while supernatural beliefs are incompatible with humanism such beliefs were not traditionally religiously held thus allowing for an indigenization of the tools of the Enlightenment. A new religious movement is evolving that romanticizes a fundamentalistic form of indigeniety, and this has the effect of keeping the tools of the Enlightenment from peoples aboriginal to the Americas.

Acknowledgement: The author conveys his thanks to Francis Widdowson who critiqued an earlier draft of the is article and to Keith Goulet who contributed his knowledge through a series of two interviews.

Bibliography

Bell, D. D. (2011). The bottomless pit becomes the arch-nemisis Ridged Valley Reflections. http://justbetweentheridges.wordpress.com/2011/08/

Brave Heart, M. Y. (2003). The historical trauma response among natives and its relationship with substance abuse: A Lakota illustration. Journal of Psychoactive Drugs, 35(1), 7-13.

Denig, E. T. (1856/1961). Five Indian Tribes of the Upper Missouri. University of Oklahoma Press. (Five Indian Tribes of the Upper Missouri)

DiCarlo, C. (2005, June 25). The importance of being ignorant: Critical thinking and the relations of natural systems Humanism Now Conference, Ottawa, ON.

Gill, S. D. (1991). Mother Earth: An American story. University of Chicago Press.

Kaill, D. (2005). We are all African. Humanist Perspectives, 154, 5-7.

Pinker, S. (2003). A biological understanding of human nature. In J. Brockman (Ed.), The new humanists: Science at the edge (pp. 33-51). Barnes & Noble.

Poliandri, S. (2011). First Nations Identity and Reserve Live: the Mi’kmaq of Novia Scotia. University of Nebraska Press.

Raff, J. A., Rzhetskaya, M., Tackney, J., & Hayes, M. G. (2015). Mitochondrial diversity of I ñupiat people from the A laskan N orth S lope provides evidence for the origins of the Paleo‐and Neo‐E skimo peoples. American Journal of Physical Anthropology, 157(4), 603-614.

Raghavan, M., DeGiorgio, M., Albrechtsen, A., Moltke, I., Skoglund, P., Korneliussen, T. S., Grønnow, B., Appelt, M., Gulløv, H. C., & Friesen, T. M. (2014). The genetic prehistory of the New World Arctic. Science, 345(6200), 1255832.

Robertson, L. H. (2011). An application of PLAR to the development of the aboriginal self: One college’s experience. International Review of Research in Open and Distance Learning, 12(1), 96-108.

Robertson, L. H. (2014). Native Spirituality: The making of a new religion. Humanist Perspectives, 47(1)(1), 16-23.

Robertson, L. H. (2015). The trauma of colonization: A psycho-historical analysis of one aboriginal community in the North American “North-West” Interamerican Journal of Psychology, 49(3), 317-332.

Robertson, L. H. (2020). The Evolved Self: Mapping an understanding of who we are. University of Ottawa Press.

Robertson, L. H. (2021). The Medicine Wheel Revisited: Reflections on Indigenization in Counseling and Education. SAGE Open, 11(2), 1-11. https://doi.org/10.1177/21582440211015202

Sagan, C. (1996). Demon haunted world: Science as a candle in the dark. Ballantine Books.

Shermer, M. (2004). The science of good and evil: Why people cheat, gossip, care, share, and follow the golden rule. Henry Holt and Company.

Widdowson, F., & Howard, A. (2008). Disrobing the Aboriginal Industry: The deception behind indigenous cultural preservation. MiGill-Queen’s University Press.

Footnotes

None

Citations

American Medical Association (AMA 11th Edition): Robertson L. Is Humanism Compatible with Indigeneity?. April 2023; 11(2). http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/illusion-inequalities

American Psychological Association (APA 7th Edition): Robertson, L. (2023, April 8). Is Humanism Compatible with Indigeneity?. In-Sight Publishing. 11(2). http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/illusion-inequalities.

Brazilian National Standards (ABNT): ROBERTSON, L. Is Humanism Compatible with Indigeneity?. In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, Fort Langley, v. 11, n. 2, 2023.

Chicago/Turabian, Author-Date (17th Edition): Robertson, Lloyd. 2023. “Is Humanism Compatible with Indigeneity?.” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal 11, no. 2 (Spring). http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/illusion-inequalities.

Chicago/Turabian, Notes & Bibliography (17th Edition): Robertson, L Is Humanism Compatible with Indigeneity?.” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal 11, no. 2 (April 2023). http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/illusion-inequalities.

Harvard: Robertson, L. (2023) ‘Is Humanism Compatible with Indigeneity?In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, 11(1). <http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/illusion-inequalities>.

Harvard (Australian): Robertson, L 2023, ‘Is Humanism Compatible with Indigeneity?In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vol. 11, no. 2, <http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/illusion-inequalities>.

Modern Language Association (MLA, 9th Edition): Robertson, Lloyd. “Is Humanism Compatible with Indigeneity?.” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vo.11, no. 2, 2023, http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/illusion-inequalities.

Vancouver/ICMJE: Lloyd R. Is Humanism Compatible with Indigeneity? [Internet]. 2023 Apr; 11(2). Available from: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/illusion-inequalities

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License.

Based on work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen, or the author(s), and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors copyright their material, as well, and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Claus Volko, M.D. on High-I.Q. Societies: Member, World Genius Directory (6)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/07/22

Abstract

Claus Volko is an Austrian computer and medical scientist who has conducted research on the treatment of cancer and severe mental disorders by conversion of stress hormones into immunity hormones. This research gave birth to a new scientific paradigm which he called “symbiont conversion theory”: methods to convert cells exhibiting parasitic behaviour to cells that act as symbionts. In 2013 Volko, obtained an IQ score of 172 on the Equally Normed Numerical Derivation Test. He is also the founder and president of Prudentia High IQ Society, a society for people with an IQ of 140 or higher, preferably academics. He discusses: high IQ societies; Mensa in Austria; current size of Prudentia; journal publications; the Facebook group; membership size and demographics; Facebook; “only positive aspects” to high-IQ societies; the failures; more realistic purposes; the tests of Ivan Ivec; other societies than Mensa; Henning Ludvigsen; Kostantino Pataridis; hardly anyone drank at the Mensa meetings; logics; the journal; the new society; members from Europe, Asia, and North America; books; television, movies, or music of interest; interesting discoveries in medicine; a paradigm shift; and favourite issue of the society journal.

Keywords: Claus Volko, Facebook, fuzzy logic, Henning Ludvigsen, High IQ societies, Ivan Ivec, Jungian Personality Theory, Kostantino Pataridis, Mensa International, Metaphysics, Prudentia, Symbiont Conversion Theory, Vienna.

Conversation with Claus Volko, M.D. on High-I.Q. Societies: Member, World Genius Directory (6)

*Please see the references, footnotes, and citations, after the interview, respectively.*

*Interview conducted in late 2020. The delay is personal idiocy, not his.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Why are most “high IQ societies are not much more than websites with member lists”?

Claus Volko, M.D.[1],[2]*: Mostly because they are international organizations that have members in a large number of countries but not many members in a single country. So there are no real-life, face-to-face meetings.

Jacobsen: How is Mensa in Austria able to host monthly meetings in Vienna?

Volko: There are about 200 members living in Vienna.

Jacobsen: What is the current size of Prudentia?

Volko: Right now we have 46 members.

Jacobsen: The journal publications seem short in the first analysis. Why short for some of these first issues of the journal?

Volko: I decided to publish a new issue of the journal whenever I had new material to publish instead of keeping collecting material until a certain amount would have been gathered.

Jacobsen: What happens on the Facebook group?

Volko: Not much yet. Mostly introducing new members.

Jacobsen: What is the membership size and demographics now?

Volko: There are members from Europe, Asia and North America.

Jacobsen: Why is Facebook the social medium for the high-IQ individuals?

Volko: Well, most people have a Facebook account. So why should they not use it.

Jacobsen: In regards to “only positive aspects” to high-IQ societies, what are the positive aspects of societies like Prudentia and Mensa International? 

Volko: Prudentia has a nice journal with some highly interesting articles, e.g. on Symbiont Conversion Theory and on the Synthesis of Metaphysics and Jungian Personality Theory.

Jacobsen: If, in theory, they could perform such a function apart from the postsecondary institutional environment and the long-term existence of the societies. Why the failures to do it? Also, is this reasonable with the fact that most “high IQ societies are not much more than websites with member lists”?

Volko: High IQ societies need to publish more educational and scientific articles.

Jacobsen: Following from the previous question, why not simply have the more straightforward notion of the evidenced existence of social communities for the highly intelligence alongside academia as a more concrete and realistic contributor to the needs of society? One can point to the failures of academia. However, its benefits would seem to far outweigh its costs and the high-IQ societies appear, as you noted, “not much more than websites with member lists.” As well, what other more realistic purposes could high-IQ societies perform in the early 21st century, even the middle 21st century?

Volko: Basically high IQ societies are a means of getting to know people. It does not matter which society one belongs to, people connect with each other via Facebook and talk.

Jacobsen: Why the tests of Ivan Ivec?

Volko: They are pretty well-made and have decent norms.

Jacobsen: Are there any other societies than Mensa providing real in-person meetings?

Volko: Intertel has annual gatherings, as far as I know.

Jacobsen: What are some examples of the works of Henning Ludvigsen exemplfiying his talent?

Volko: He has made a lot of great drawings, e.g. title pictures of some issues of Hugi Magazine.

Jacobsen: What are some examples of the works of Kostantino Pataridis exemplfiying his talent?

Volko: His best work in my opinion is “Happiness is around the bend”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQngoCBvq3Q.

Jacobsen: Why do you think hardly anyone drank at the Mensa meetings? Did you ever drink akin to fellow high school students in high school?

Volko: I don’t often drink, only when others around me drink too. I think Mensa members are proud of their intelligence and know that alcohol may harm their intellect, so they avoid it.

Jacobsen: Are there logics in which the assigning of values “true” and “false” simply fail?

Volko: There are also multi-valued logics such as fuzzy logic where a probability that the value is true is assigned to it.

Jacobsen: What topics would you hope to explore in the journal as the society membership grows?

Volko: I would like to explore topics related to all of science and philosophy. Prudentia is a high IQ society that is primarily for academics and people with interest in science and philosophy. The journal is supposed to give these people a platform where they can present their own original ideas.

Jacobsen: How big do you hope to grow the new society? That is, what would be your highest hopes?

Volko: More important than the number of members is their activity. I would like to have a group of members who regularly contribute to the journal. If I manage to gather such a group, Prudentia has been a success.

Jacobsen: Of those members from Europe, Asia, and North America, are most from Europe?

Volko: Yes, currently most of our members are from Europe.

Jacobsen: Have you been reading any books as of late?

Volko: Admittedly, no. Due to Corona the bookshops are closed and I haven’t read any of the books I have at home in recent days. But I would like to read the textbooks on introductory math and physics for university students which I purchased some time ago soon.

Jacobsen: Any interesting television, movies, or music of interest to you?

Volko: I regularly watch an Austrian television programme in which the participants tell each other jokes. In addition, I enjoy watching quiz programmes. My favourite movies are the Bourne saga, the Mission Impossible saga, the Divergent trilogy and the Indiana Jones movies.

Jacobsen: What are some interesting discoveries in medicine alongside Symbiont Conversion Theory?

Volko: Recently a new DNA shape has been discovered, and artificial intelligence has been applied to discover 3D protein foldings.

Jacobsen: Do you think philosophy, science, or theology are due for a paradigm shift? If so, why so? If not, why not? This can be outside of the earlier professional propositions by you.

Volko: I am not sure about this and I have no idea whether anybody is able to assess this at all. My view is that every person has a different opinion and that there is not a uniform scientific paradigm.

Jacobsen: What is your favourite issue of the society journal so far?

Volko: I like the second and the third issue very much because of their original scientific contents. Also, “The Synthesis of Metaphysics and Jungian Personality Theory” is a very good article, in my opinion (I know that I am praising myself here, as I am the author, but I would be of the same view if any other person had written the article).

Footnotes

[1] Member, World Genius Directory; Member, Nobel Society; Member, Prometheus 2.0 Society; Advisor; GIGA Society.

[2] Individual Publication Date: July 22, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/volko-6; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Matthew Scillitani on Mild and Severe Reactions to Score Reports, Recognition, Rick Rosner, and Personality Factors: Member, Giga Society (8)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/07/22

Abstract

Matthew Scillitani, member of the Glia Society and Giga Society, is a software developer living in Cary, North Carolina. He is of Italian and British lineage, and is fluent in English and Dutch (reading and writing). He earned his bachelor’s degree in psychology at East Carolina University. As of 2022, he’s pursuing a second bachelor’s degree in computer science. He previously worked as a research psychologist, data analyst, writer, editor, web developer, and software engineer. You may contact him via e-mail at mattscil@gmail.com. He discusses: I.Q.; Psychometric Qrosswords; minor recognition; the communication with other members; conversations evolve with similarly mentally talented people; feedback to members presenting ideas; interview with Rick Rosner; the feeling or the click of solving a hard problem on a high-range test; genius get mistaken for stupidity; testing geniuses; charisma; self-confidence; Computer Science; a stable and happy situation regarding income; and impressive limitations in ordinary people.

Keywords: Giga Society, Matthew Scillitani, personality factors, Psychometric Qrosswords, Rick Rosner.

Conversation with Matthew Scillitani on Mild and Severe Reactions to Score Reports, Recognition, Rick Rosner, and Personality Factors: Member, Giga Society (8)

*Please see the references, footnotes, and citations, after the interview, respectively.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Paul loves crushing people’s self-inflated notions of their I.Q. In that, they assume having a higher intelligence quotient than in reality. You know the phrase, “A Megalomaniac’s Waterloo.” He’s funny. What is a typical reaction of someone who takes one, or even multiple, tests by Paul and fails to enter the Giga Society, even the Glia Society, as far as you know?

Matthew Scillitani[1],[2]*: I think most test-takers don’t believe they’ll qualify for the Giga Society so it’s not a huge blow to their egos when they don’t get in. I do know of many people who haven’t been able to qualify for the Glia Society and it’s crushed them though. It’s not uncommon for someone to think they’ll score 150 or 160 and score in the 120s or 130s and then post on social media or in a forum that Paul doesn’t grade fairly or that I.Q. tests don’t matter anyway. Some more serious reactions were from candidates e-mailing me to say that they considered suicide after seeing their score report.

Jacobsen: When did you realize, “I got it,’ regarding Psychometric Qrosswords? In that, you nailed the test. You must’ve had a sense of doing well on it, before receiving the score.

Scillitani: When I filled in my last answer I felt that they were probably all right but wasn’t totally confident I’d qualify for Giga. It happens often that one thinks they have every answer right and ends up totally off and misses half or more answers so I only really knew when I saw the score report. That was an exciting moment.

Jacobsen: Was the pursuit of the minor recognition worth the requisite effort?

Scillitani: Hmm, well, that was really a secondary or tertiary goal but I would say it was worth it. Some readers will roll their eyes and scoff at my wanting recognition for an inborn quality as opposed to an achievement but I’ll remind everyone that even when one does great things they rarely get recognition for it in their lifetime anyway, so I’ll take any positive recognition I can get. A great example of this is that, at every job I’ve worked to date, I’ve optimized and revolutionized whatever task I was given and have never received a raise, promotion, or even a pat on the back. The opposite, actually. Many times co-workers or even managers have stolen my ideas or work because it was better than anything they could come up with themselves.

Jacobsen: In those conversations on “STEM, politics, religion, and so forth,” what is the first thing noticed in the communication with other members?

Scillitani: That every member has something interesting to say and is largely polite and respectful. It’s amazing how few arguments and insults there are in discussions with Glia members, even when many of them are involved.

Jacobsen: How do those conversations evolve with similarly mentally talented people?

Scillitani: I wouldn’t know since It’s very hard to find a group of people whose I.Q.s are all at or above 147 outside of an I.Q. society. I’ve spoken one-on-one with smart people outside of I.Q. societies but personal conversations often go differently than ones in a group.

Jacobsen: How do members of the Glia Society give feedback to members presenting ideas for it?

Scillitani: When a member presents an idea to the group it usually goes quite well. If it is uninteresting then a member or two will comment on it in an objective way and then we’ll move on to another topic. If it’s interesting then it may trigger discussion with a handful of members and could even evolve into a group phone call that lasts for hours.

Jacobsen: Where was this interview with Rick Rosner published?

Scillitani: This interview was done by Errol Morris from the TV series, First Person. I believe the interview took place in 2001 but I didn’t watch it until 2016. I’ve also read some of Rosner’s interviews done by you as well.

Jacobsen: What is the feeling or the click of solving a hard problem on a high-range test?

Scillitani: It feels amazing. When the problem is hard and takes say, an hour or two, there’s a euphoric feeling and a wonderful dopamine rush. For extremely hard problems that take weeks or months it’s a kind of ‘jump out of your chair’ excitement that one rarely gets. I imagine it’s what winning the lottery feels like.

Jacobsen: How does genius get mistaken for stupidity, even for immaturity?

Scillitani: Intelligence is taken for stupidity in the presence of unintelligent people. Very few people know or can admit that they’re idiots so when they hear something they don’t understand, especially when the speaker isn’t considered an authority or expert on the subject, they can’t believe it’s their own lack of intelligence. They’d prefer to believe it’s the intelligent speaker who must be the moron. As for being taken as immature, I imagine that is related more to Asperger Syndrome, regardless of whether the person a genius or not. Most people see their rigidity, perceived abrasiveness, and lack of understanding social cues as immaturity.

Jacobsen: Why are testing geniuses, to find them, necessary for the advancement of humankind? Why is advancement of humankind the value, the direction for moral effort? What does the advancement of humankind look like to you?

Scillitani: Geniuses are the ones making all the breakthroughs, inventing all the useful gadgets, discovering how the universe works, and so forth, so they’re really the ones who are paving the way for mankind. As for the value in advancing mankind, aside from being one of our functions as a species, it’s just interesting. We’re on a big rock in space and we’re really smart, what else can we do but be curious about how it all works?

I’d like to see more focus on discovery, especially in Earth’s oceans, and in outer space; medical advancements capable of prolonging our lifespans; and for for big changes to happen in the political sphere.

Jacobsen: Why are so few geniuses “charismatic”?

Scillitani: This is probably because most of them have Asperger Syndrome or schizophrenia. Both of these disorders can make a person appear quirky, eccentric, hostile, and/or unpredictable and anti-social. Nikola Tesla was one of the few charismatic geniuses that almost certainly also had Asperger Syndrome but I can’t think of any others off the top of my head.

Jacobsen: Is self-confidence an important factor in improving performance in professional pursuits for the high-I.Q.?

Scillitani: Being self-confident is important for improving performance in almost every profession for anyone, regardless of their I.Q. If we don’t think we can achieve something then we’re dooming ourselves to mediocrity. I’m not suggesting everyone should believe in themselves or anything, but that if it is realistic for one to have the requisite abilities to do something, even if it’s rare, they should pursue it if they wish to.

Jacobsen: Why pursue Computer Science now?

Scillitani: It’s more interesting than business/advertising and there’s less political involvement than in psychology. Several times I considered dropping out of school while I was working towards my degree in psychology because of how pervasive politics are in that pseudo-science. So many researchers fabricate data or withhold data if it doesn’t align with their political beliefs and I wanted nothing to do with people like that. There’s a reason psychologists often say, “everybody lies [many times] everyday”!

Jacobsen: What would a stable and happy situation regarding income and a day job be for you?

Scillitani: Working alone and doing hard but slow tasks would be nice. I don’t like having to grind menial tasks all day or work in teams so I’m hoping I’ll be more independent as a computer scientist than an advertiser. As for income, I’ll take as much as I can get!

Jacobsen: When you realize the rather impressive limitations in ordinary people to form coherent thoughts, how does this impact the further extension of coherent thoughts into a worldview? In that, people, generally, aren’t coherent in a moment, so aren’t in general views. Does this explain a lot of ordinary human life to you?

Scillitani: Well, it’s taught me that most people don’t actually have their own worldview in the first place. Even when someone appears somewhat intelligent it’s usually that they’ve found a genuinely smart person, absorbed as much knowledge from them as they could, and then taken that person’s worldview as their own. I don’t believe that adults whose I.Q.s are below ~120 (about 1 in 10) are capable of processing information with any level of depth beyond simple “A –> B”, Pavlov’s Dog type thinking.

Also, yes, this does very well explain a lot about ordinary human life to me. I used to think that most people had willfully poor impulse control, were lazy, refused to think ahead, and so forth but now I know it’s that they *can’t* control their impulses on their own, *can’t* understand personal responsibility, and *can’t* think things through. That is a very depressing but unfortunate truth and most intelligent people can’t believe that’s how it is. The smarter someone is the more likely they think, “intelligence doesn’t matter much, it’s all about work ethic” or “anyone could do what I just did, we’re not so different.” That’s probably the most wrong they’ve ever been about anything in their lives though.

Footnotes

[1] Member, Giga Society; Member, Glia Society. Bachelor’s Degree, Psychology, East Carolina University.

[2] Individual Publication Date: July 22, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/scillitani-8; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Entemake Aman (阿曼) on the Chinese in Education: Member, OlympIQ Society (4)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/07/22

Abstract

Entemake Aman (阿曼) claims an IQ of 180 (SD15) with membership in OlympIQ. With this, he claims one to be of the people with highest IQ in the world. He was born in Xinjiang, China. He believes IQ is innate and genius refers to people with IQ above 160 (SD15). Einstein’s IQ is estimated at 160. Aman thinks genius needs to be cultivated from an early age, and that he needs to make achievements in the fields he is interested in, such as physics, mathematics, computer and philosophy, and should work hard to give full play to his talent. He discusses: online games; TikTok; other projects; the older generations of Chinese; focus on I.Q.; an I.Q. between 120 and 130; an antipathy with British Mensa; Wayne Zhang; the cheating into OlympIQ; Wang Peng; Peng’s book on Mensa; Tsinghua University; Peking University; University of Science and Technology of China; best educated minds in China; Chinese education; the U.S.; thinking rather than memorization; liberal arts in China; the subjects covered in liberal arts education in China; top universities in the U.S. reject the Chinese college entrance examination; young Chinese dream about money; first grade and high school; Chinese with super-high-I.Q.s; Chinese professional society; innovative and imaginative thinkers; and key senior high schools.

Keywords: China, Chinese education, Entemake Aman, high school, liberal arts, OlympIQ, Peking University, TikTok, Tsinghua University, university, Wang Peng.

Conversation with Entemake Aman (阿曼) on the Chinese in Education: Member, OlympIQ Society (4)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: What are the most prominent online games for young Chinese?

Entemake Aman (阿曼)[1],[2]*: PUBG and League of Legends.

Jacobsen: Why is TikTok so popular for the youth of China?

Aman: Tiktok can send video content according to people’s interests. You can also make money by becoming an online celebrity through Tiktok.

Jacobsen: What are some of the other projects ongoing now?

Aman: Young people also like to chat with others through wechat and watch others’ wechat circle of friends.

Jacobsen: Why are the older generations of Chinese focused on chess, playing cards, and entertainment equipment?

Aman: These are the recreational games for the elderly. When they were young, they did not have mobile phones and computers. When they were old, they were still used to the entertainment items they used to play when they were young.

Jacobsen: Is focus on I.Q. more of a young person thing than an older person thing in China?

Aman: In China’s high IQ circles, we haven’t seen any elderly people with IQ above 160. On the contrary, there are many elderly people in Mega society. In China, young people pay more attention to high IQ. Their age is generally between 15 and 50.

Jacobsen: Why is an I.Q. between 120 and 130 the range for those can study well and perform well in the Chinese academic system?

Aman: In China, there are two courses in physics and mathematics. The full score requires an IQ between 120 and 130 (sd15). But full marks require special efforts and good teachers. Chemistry, biology, Chinese and English require the ability to recite knowledge and apply knowledge. So many times, people with an IQ of more than 140 (sd15) may not achieve good results even if they work hard.

Jacobsen: Is there an antipathy with British Mensa and the former chairman of Mensa in China, or is this simply a bureaucratic decision to not repeat the same mistakes from before by British Mensa?

Aman: I heard that the former chairman of Mensa spent money from Mensa China. There may also be bureaucratic reasons.

Jacobsen: Why is Wayne Zhang so low-key?

Aman: This may be his charm. His photos also look like a mature man.

Jacobsen: How is the cheating into OlympIQ know without evidence to support the claims? Who got sloppy?

Aman: A lot of circumstantial evidence. And I am 100% sure that there are many people cheating in China. By chatting with these people, we can also judge their thinking ability. Anyway, China’s slse48 and slseii scores are very abnormal. This is also the reason why Giga society no longer recognizes slse48.

Jacobsen: What makes Wang Peng known in the Chinese high-I.Q. circles?

Aman: Because he was in 2009, slse48 got 30 points. He is also a Mensa member. He has published a book about Mensa. He also married a Mensa Chinese member.

Jacobsen: What was the focus on Peng’s book on Mensa? What were the contents? Is there a publicly accessible link to it?

Aman: This is a book published from 2010 to 2011. Its name is Mensa Road, which can be found through Taobao app. I wonder if Amazon can find it. This book popularizes the high IQ Association and carries an IQ test (which can measure people with IQ below 145sd15). There are some IQ questions.

Jacobsen: What makes Peking University great?

Aman: The mathematics and physics majors of Peking University are especially strong! In China, many IMO gold medal winners go to Peking University to study.

Jacobsen: Why do some of the best educated minds in China leave for the United States – sometimes for life?

Aman: Because American education is the first in the world.

Jacobsen: Was your own experience with Chinese education more positive than negative or more negative than positive?

Aman: More negative than positive.

Jacobsen: With time to mature from childhood, does the U.S. seem to have an education focused on “interest, talent and happiness”? Which means, has your opinion changed or stayed the same?

Aman: I think American education is more suitable for genius, and Chinese education is more suitable for ordinary people. This is also the view of Yang Zhenning, the Nobel Prize in physics, in an interview.

Jacobsen: Do you think those with an I.Q. above 130 tend to be more focused on thinking rather than memorization? In other words, they process concepts in mind rather than commit them to memory and then recite them in the test.

Aman: Memory and IQ are two different abilities. My memory is at the average level, but my IQ is 180 (sd15). People with IQ over 130 (sd15) have more innovative thinking and imagination. Too many recitation tests will limit their talent!

Jacobsen: Why are liberal arts in China more focused on recitation?

Aman: Exam oriented education is to select people who work harder. After graduation from University, they choose careers such as lawyers and accountants that need to recite a lot of books!

Jacobsen: What are the subjects covered in liberal arts education in China?

Aman: High school courses were politics, history, geography, mathematics (simpler than science), Chinese and English.

China’s education pays more attention to scores. Students usually have more homework and exams, and they have relatively little free time to allocate. They also do not encourage and tap students’ Extracurricular potential. The classroom atmosphere will be more serious. It always focuses on learning more, reciting more, practicing more and taking more exams to cultivate students’ absorption of knowledge. Generally, you just need to study hard. You don’t need to prepare any specific materials and pay attention to the application time. You just need to follow the steps of teachers and students to study the exam in a regular way. The educational goal of American education does not attach much importance to the learning of “basic knowledge”, but attaches great importance to the cultivation of students’ creativity. It is not enough for children who can only learn. The most popular students in the United States are those who have excellent performance in the field of sports and have their own skills. They may only get upper middle grades, but they often get the best resources, or even priority admission places.

Jacobsen: Why do most of the top universities in the U.S. reject the Chinese college entrance examination?

Aman: In the United States, performance is not the only criterion. They pay more attention to your personal abilities and characteristics. So you know, it takes a long time to find your interest and prove your strength. We should find what we are interested in and good at in different extracurricular activities, and then practice to hone our skills, and then participate in various professional competitions to prove our strength. In the United States, most of this training method began from junior high school.

Jacobsen: Do many young Chinese dream about money more than anything else?

Aman: Money can solve 99% of the problems. Many students may not go to college because of their hobbies, but to find a good job to make money!

Jacobsen: How does the first grade (age 6 to 7) differ from high school (age 15 to 18)?

Aman: High school students aged 15 to 18 work harder, while those aged 5 to 7 study mathematics and Chinese. Learn how to write, simple arithmetic, etc. But from my own experience, every morning and afternoon, pupils aged 5 to 7 also have to learn.

Jacobsen: Even though, these Chinese with super-high-I.Q.s went to ordinary universities. How did they leverage their mental talents, regardless?

Aman: These 15 talents with IQ over 170 (sd15) have no chance to show their talents and choose their favorite majors. Their school is very ordinary (the University ranks after 800 in the world). They may accomplish nothing in their life. This is also the reason why there are few Nobel prizes in China.

Jacobsen: Are there benefits in Chinese professional society for the recitation and focus on memorized information?

Aman: Reciting knowledge can help us get good grades in the exam.

Jacobsen: Are more innovative and imaginative thinkers with I.Q.s over 140 (S.D. 150 prone to conformity and rejection by Chinese society?

Aman: They also need this knowledge to be thinkers. From my own experience, few people around me pay attention to the field of high IQ. No one is excluded, of course, because there are few opportunities to show the talents of thinkers.

Jacobsen: How many students, from these key senior high schools, participate in the physics competitions and mathematics competitions?

Aman:  Although I have an IQ of 180 (sd15), I didn’t go to a key high school. Even in a key high school, the number is relatively small.

Footnotes

[1] Member, OlympIQ Society; Member, Mensa International.

[2] Individual Publication Date: July 22, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/aman-4; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Veronica Palladino, M.D. on Family, Molise, Naturalness, Women, and Religious Faith: Member, Glia Society (2)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/07/15

Abstract

Veronica Palladino, M.D., is a Medical Doctor, Co-Champion of the LexIQ Contest, an author of four books, and a member of a number of High-I.Q. societies. She discusses: the main teachings; family a physical and social nourishment; the parts of nature and types of ancient traditions one can find in Molise; an acceptance one’s true self and nature; a medical doctor; I.Q. scores; individuals self-promoting at various levels; the friend; a genius; the factors involved in genius; the uniqueness of each genius; strength; determination; creativity; originality; innovation; the medical system in Italy; reasonable working hours; the idea of neurodiversity; religious faith and science; science; patients will die; physicians translate innovations in science into ethical practice; Italy working towards integration ethics and politics with “environmentalism”; ultimate moral decision-making; and the principles of Catholicism.

Keywords: Catholicism, environmentalism, family, genius, Italy, Molise, moral decision-making, neurodiversity, patients, religious faith, science, Veronica Palladino.

Conversation with Veronica Palladino, M.D. on Family, Molise, Naturalness, Women, and Religious Faith: Member, Glia Society (2)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: What were the main teachings provided by your father to your sister and you?

Veronica Palladino[1],[2]*: My dad’s teachings were very pragmatic. Few words and many facts. It doesn’t matter what you tell but what you do with passion and dedication. My father was a tireless worker, a strong and determined man. He said: “Do not cry but fight every moment of life”.

Jacobsen: Is family a physical and social nourishment and renewal, or more of a distant memory to recall for strength and revival, or both?

Palladino: According to me family is nourishment and renewal. When family is healthy it is a source of strength. It is a propellant towards infinite potential but when it is sick it generates traumas and torments from which it is difficult to heal. Every day there is a news case that remembers it. Therefore governments must invest in the well-being and social integration of families.

Jacobsen: What are some of the parts of nature and types of ancient traditions one can find in Molise?

Palladino: Molise shows a rich heritage of traditional festivals that highlight ancient and religious values and a deep cultural identity. There are the WWF Nature Reserve Guardiaregia-Campochiaro, the oasis The Mortine, the LIPU reserve Casacalenda, the Matese, the botanical garden Capracotta, the reserve Collemeluccio.
Lucky people may have the chance to see wild animals as the brown bears, deers, chamois, wolves.

Jacobsen: How does a naturalness, an acceptance one’s true self and nature, lead to a more fulfilling life, knowing “that I am what I am, simply”?

Palladino: The pursuit of self knowledge, key element in Socrates philosophy is: γνώθι σαυτόν. It is inscribed over the portico at Apollo’s Temple at Delphi. It is the fundamental undertakings of psychology. Everybody has a hidden part of the Universe’s truth inside the mind.

Jacobsen: As a medical doctor, what were the inspirations for each text: “Il diario del Martedì, Un mondo altro, La Morte delle Afroditi bionde and Persone e lacrime”? Because I like the combination of M.D. plus writer. I may, or may not, be biased towards writers, dear Veronica.

Palladino: Il diario del Martedì is a research about being who you want to be. Un mondo altro is a novel based on fantasy, love of literature and personal growth. La Morte delle Afroditi bionde is a book that centers on a series of mysterious murders. What it looks like is not. Finally Persone e lacrime is a collection of poems. Poems are particles of oxygen that caress my lungs and ignite my synapses.

Jacobsen: What happens when the I.Q. scores are taken too seriously?

Palladino: I.Q. tests are good ways to improve thinking, mental power and ability but tests are not scientifically validated parameters for definition of intelligence. It is only a start point of orientation.

Jacobsen: Of those individuals self-promoting at various levels, most are men in the high-I.Q. communities. Why?

Palladino: I do not know why but women’s IQ scores are extraordinary. I know brilliant and precious women’s minds. I hope greater consideration of their skill and professional ability will be the prevalent situation in the future.

Women (My poem for women)

Wicked fibers

Intertwine in the pulsating core of the world.

Kaleidoscopic faces and cutouts of figures they result

From algorithms

Apparently indecipherable.

Bigots, puritans, prostitutes, rebels,

guilty, wagtails, nightingales, innocents.

Beauty crashes into the minds eager

To possess her and imprison her but not it bends,

advances and expands in

sincere heart that gives passion and rejects servility.

Strength is not sapped

By humiliations

Of the mephitic crapula.

Women, spirits drunk with

Burning emotion.

Women, lovable profile e vibrant with existence.

Women pure and abundant

Source of new

Life.

Jacobsen: Was the friend discovered as similarly gifted when testing around 20?

Palladino: No, but it was a good experience.

Jacobsen: Do you consider yourself a genius?

Palladino: Absolutely no. I love knowledge but there is nothing of a genius in me.

Jacobsen: In some manner, are the factors involved in genius in interaction with the wider world too manifold to make precise or even generic predictions about who, when, and what will be recognized as such, e.g., a person of genius, a period of genius, or a discovery or creation of genius? Terence Tao seems like a person who was known since a young age for prodigious mathematical talents and who, unlike others who went off the tracks, became highly successful.

Palladino: There must be a time, a place, an urgency, a convergence of factors that affect the birth of genius. Literary genius is a multi-layered aptitude that consists of many unique cognitive, affective, perceptual, motivational, interpersonal, and state-dependent attributes, including the challenging of orthodox thinking, fertility of ideas, compulsive discipline and hard work, tolerance of ambiguity, innocence of perception, immersion in the present moment, intellectual diversity, an internal locus of evaluation, and sensitivity to nuances.

Jacobsen: Maybe, the uniqueness of each genius, e.g., “Bohr, Leibniz, Goethe, Bach, Ramanujan, Wittgenstein, Aeschylus,” makes comparison or ranking necessarily moot. I don’t know. While, at the same time, do you think common themes might mark them? Something educational in an attempt at drawing threads through times and cultures, and minds. Cooijmans likes to point to a particular creative capacity in factors, for example.

Palladino: Creativity is a common factor to genial talents certainly. A genius is a curious, stubborn, reckless discoverer of diversity.

Jacobsen: Which genius best exemplifies strength to you?

Palladino: Rosalind Franklin.

Jacobsen: Which genius best exemplifies determination to you?

Palladino: Marie Curie.

Jacobsen: Which genius best exemplifies creativity to you?

Palladino: Leonardo da Vinci.

Jacobsen: Which genius best exemplifies originality to you?

Palladino: Rita Levi Montalcini.

Jacobsen: Which genius best exemplifies innovation to you?

Palladino: Barbara McClintock.

Jacobsen: How is the medical system in Italy compared to other Western European nations? How is this compared to societies with much different values and preferences, e.g., the United States?

Palladino: The medical culture provided by the Italian study system is undoubtedly valid and comprehensive of all important aspects but there are problems relating to job’s organization so young doctors decide to work abroad sometimes.

Jacobsen: Do you have reasonable working hours as a resident to balance writing endeavours and medicine?

Palladino: Unfortunately I don’t have much time to combine my two natures and I have stopped writing novels.

Jacobsen: How helpful is the idea of neurodiversity to place a positive emphasis on differences in aptitudes and outputs of someone’s neurology?

Palladino: Neurodiversity is a power inside every person, a light of special trait that opens every own path. Lack of awareness, and lack of appropriate infrastructure (such as office setup or staffing structures) can cause exclusion of people with neurodevelopmental differences. Understanding and embracing neurodiversity in communities, schools, healthcare settings, and workplaces can improve inclusivity for all people. It is important for all of us to foster an environment that is conducive to neurodiversity, and to recognize and emphasize each person’s individual strengths and talents while also providing support for their differences and needs.

Jacobsen: This ineffable quality, is this more an intuitive sense of the Divine rather than a rational enquiry into the state of nature? This seems like a common theme amongst highly intelligent individuals who adhere to a belief in transcendental sentiments and structures beyond the senses and analytical, when I discourse with them. Something incredibly profound, personal, and rock bottom true. An instinct of something that can’t not be; where, God simply, purely, exists as ontic universality, as the ground of Being, of Good, of Love, of Justice, of Beauty, of a means by which reality coheres and in which reality remains inhered with – God, of all that is, was, and will be, to them.

Palladino: Religious faith and science cannot be merged. They are two wonderful dimensions, parallel but not confusing.

Jacobsen: When does our science simply not have the answers that matter to us?

Palladino: Until a new genius will find the right answers.

Jacobsen: How do you cope with knowing some unknown number of patients will die with you, around you?

Palladino: “Everyone must leave something behind when he dies, my grandfather said. A child or a book or a painting or a house or a wall built of a pair of shoes made. Or a garden planted. Something your hand touches some way so your soul has somewhere to go when you die, and when people look at that tree or that flower you planted, you’re there.”~ Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451. Death is the last point of life and we have to accept it.

Nothing is lost, nothing is created, everything is transformed E+S⇄ ES→ E+P

Jacobsen: How do physicians translate innovations in science into ethical practice mentioned in commentary of Weinstein and Stehr?

Palladino: Innovative practice occurs when a clinician provides something new, untested, or nonstandard in the course of clinical care. Weinstein, Jay and Nico Stehr wrote “The power of knowledge: race science, race policy, and the Holocaust,”Social Epistemology” The authors take a comparative and historical perspective and refer to well-known theoretical frameworks, These cases cover a number of countries and different time periods. They see a close link between ‘knowledge producers’ and political decision-makers, but show that the effectiveness of the policies varies dramatically.

Jacobsen: Is Italy working towards integration ethics and politics with “environmentalism”? What obligations and responsibilities come with the rights and privileges of human beings living in society and living in nature as part of Nature?

Palladino: The key environmental legislation is the Environmental Consolidated Act (Norme in materia ambientale or Codice dell’Ambiente) (Legislative Decree no 152/2006). The state has exclusive competence in environmental regulation (Italian Constitution). The principal national authority is the Ministry of Ecological Transition (Ministero della Transizione Ecologica) (MET) (formerly the Ministry of the Environment and Protection of Land and Sea (Ministero dell’Ambiente e della Tutela del Territorio e del Mare) (Law Decree no 22/2021 converted into law no 55/2021.The regime pays particular attention to projects and activities that: 1Could directly impact the environment. 2 Affect the quality of life and conservation of species and natural habitats. 3Affect the biodiversity of the environment.

Nature is around and inside people. Nature is our mouths, our lungs, our eyes. We can not kill ourselves.

Jacobsen: Sometimes, even often, there can be statements and proposals by the Roman Catholic hierarchy, while, simultaneously, by and large, an ignoring of these by the laity. It may be different in Italian society than, for example, Canadian society. However, these differences can create confusion about the investment of authority within the minds of the hierarchs and the various cultures of the laity. With values inclusive of “life and dignity of the human person, solidarity, subsidiarity and respect,” is it the conscience of the individual believer, various hierarchs of the Church, or something else, in which the authority for ultimate moral decision-making must be held to account within Catholicism?

Palladino: Each doctrine has interpretative differences especially considering the cultural, environmental and social aspects that characterize nations, however the founding pillars of Catholicism always remain the same. The foundations or pillars of an authentic Catholic life are summarized in the traditional four pillars of Catholic catechisms: faith, liturgy/sacraments, life in Christ, and prayer.

Jacobsen: You spoke of the principles of Catholicism. What about the doctrines and warnings in Catholicism, e.g., belief in the Devil in the former and warnings against association with/involvement in freemasonry? Do these come into personal consideration for personal living, too?

Palladino: Faith must be a reason of improvement, growth and resolution. Honesty, sincerity, humility, acceptance of one’s limits, kindness and fairness are the principles I follow. Freemasonry is a distorted concept of cohesion and I disagree.

Footnotes

[1] Medical Doctor; Co-Champion, LexIQ Contest; Full Member, CHIN; Member, Leviathan;Member, The One Society; Member, Hochste IQ Society; Member, Profundus Society; Member, Synaptiq Society; Member, WGD; Member, Gifted High IQ Network; Prospective Member, Sidis Society; Full Member of other High-I.Q. Societies; Author: “Il diario del Martedì” (2008), “Un mondo altro” (2009), “La Morte delle Afroditi bionde” (2019) and “Persone e lacrime” (poems) (2018).

[2] Individual Publication Date: July 15, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/palladino-2; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Chinese High-I.Q. Group Discussion 1: Fengzhi Wu (邬冯值), Craft Xia, and Tianxi Yu (余天曦) on China and Its Culture

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/07/08

Abstract

Fengzhi Wu (邬冯值) is the Founder & President of God’s Power Society & The Chosen One High IQ Society and the author of the Mystery Intelligence Test. Craft Xia is the Founder of CHIN. Tianxi Yu (余天曦) is a Member of God’s Power Society. They discuss: China; Chinese civilization; the historical context of education in Chinese society; the foundational Chinese philosophies; modern Chinese civilization; and the high-I.Q. community changed over time in China.

Keywords: Buddhism, CHIN, China, Chinese, Confucianism, Confucius, Craft Xia, culture, Fengzhi Wu, Flynn effect, God’s Power Society, Legalism, Ming Dynasties, Mohism, Mystery Intelligence Test, Shenghan, Tianxi Yu, Taoism, The Core Socialist Values, Wang Fuzhi, Yellow River Valley, Zen.

Chinese High-I.Q. Group Discussion 1: Fengzhi Wu (邬冯值), Craft Xia, and Tianxi Yu (余天曦) on China and Its Culture

*Please see the references, footnotes, and citations, after the interview, respectively.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Let’s start on the purpose of this group discussion, the idea is a Chinese high-I.Q. community discussion because, as far as I can tell, the voices coming out in the high-I.Q. communities tend to emphasize North American and Western European with an emphasis on particular cultural outputs. Chinese culture has a long legacy of invention, art, etc. Its modern rise will continue to ripple in a multipolar world, so rounding out the perspective in this globalized context makes sense to me. Hence, the idea of getting some wider range of individuals. China has the largest footprint in most ways, clearly, amongst East Asian nation-states: China, Hong Kong, Japan, Macau, Mongolia, North Korea, South Korea, and Taiwan. So, here we are, with three members of the high-I.Q. communities coming out of China, Fengzhi Wu, Craft Xia, and Tianxi Yu, what does China mean to you?

Fengzhi Wu (邬冯值)[1]*: I grew up in China and have always been proud to be Chinese, as well as admire the people, history, and culture of this country. I am optimistic about the future of my country and future generations.

Craft Xia[2]*: China is my motherland and the country where I have a sense of belonging. At the same time, it also plays a guiding role in my ideological and cultural concepts.

Tianxi Yu (余天曦)[3],[4]*: China to me is my homeland, the place where I was born. Of course, Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macau are also part of China.

Jacobsen: The Yellow River Valley appears to be the origin of Chinese civilization, which means a beginning around 5,000 B.C.E. Although, formal written records and dynasties began much later, e.g., the Xia dynasty (2070–1600 B.C.), then the Shang dynasty (1600–1046 B.C.), and so on. What seem like the attributes of Chinese culture leading to this extensive history and consistent civilizational existence? Most civilizations do not last this long.

Wu: I believe that one of the reasons Chinese culture has survived for over five millennia is through inheritance, which includes blood inheritance, value inheritance, and philosophical inheritance. Blood inheritance means that the Chinese valued family ties and blood relations, which extended to relationships with friends, the community, and eventually the country. Traditional Chinese values and philosophy are highly respected by people in China. Chinese culture holds a wealth of spiritual values that have not changed over time and can still benefit people today. There is harmony, benevolence, righteousness, courtesy, wisdom, honesty, loyalty, and filial piety. Even though we are now heavily influenced by globalization and modernization, the Chinese continue to value traditional culture and keep preserving it, while also attempting to assemble traditional culture and new culture in “harmony.”

Xia: East Asia, the birthplace of the Chinese nation, has an excellent agricultural environment, a geographical space with great development potential, and is relatively closed without losing access to foreign exchanges, which are the objective conditions for the sustainable development of the Chinese nation.

Egypt and the two river basins, which are almost open environments, are close to the African continent, the birthplace of human beings. Groups of humans continue to pass by them, and other civilizations developed along the Mediterranean can easily attack them.

The geographical environment of ancient India, located in South Asia, is also relatively closed, but a small Khyber Pass, which opens to the west, has allowed the continuous influx of external conquerors to conquer India again and again.

The geographical environment gave the early Chinese civilization sufficient time to develop. The cultural core brewed on this basis allowed us not to be wiped out and eroded by foreign nations (foreign cultures) when science and technology and force were weak. The continuous development of Chinese civilization for five thousand years is the result of the joint cooperation of objective geographical factors and subjective cultural factors.

Yu: China’s unique geography is an important reason why its civilization was not invaded by other civilizations. Other ancient civilizations were built on relatively homogeneous water systems and plains, and geographically lacked natural barriers to protect their cultures, which fractured once foreign cultures invaded.

Jacobsen: What has been the historical context of education in Chinese society? Its importance and emphasis with the society.

Wu: The traditional education context in China is to provide equitable and high-quality education. Chinese students are well-known for having extensive theoretical knowledge. In recent years, the government and society have worked hard to ensure that students develop holistically in cognition, body, emotion, and morality. As a result, people with a Chinese educational background now not only have solid theoretical knowledge but also innovative thinking and practical ability, which help to achieve themselves and even create values for our country and society. As far as I know, Chinese education has always followed the principle of teaching students based on their aptitude. It is encouraging that nowadays more and more parents and teachers are trying to build learning on students’ strengths and interests.

Xia: Social education in China can be divided into three stages.

The first stage: the difficult exploration stage (1949-1980)

As early as in the base area period, the Communist Party of China paid more attention to social education. After the founding of new China, the government began to carry out literacy and literacy education and cultural education for workers, farmers and other groups, which not only effectively improved the cultural quality of the masses, but also gave an unprecedented collective life and collective concept to China’s grass-roots society, which has been in the family or clan standard for a long time and lacks “collective consciousness”. Social education is gradually showing the characteristics of openness and socialization.

The second stage: wave rising stage (1980-2000)

As China shifted from a planned economy to a market economy, social education in China developed rapidly in the 1990s, and local education departments also issued policies one after another.

Stage III: stable development stage (since 2000)

From the background of modern Chinese society and history of “being a new people” and “arousing the people”, China’s social education has established a new pattern of diversified education development. The theme of education highlights the popularization and inclusiveness, the education service platform is stronger, the policies and basic organizations of social education have been established, and everything is prosperous.

Yu: Imperial examination system. The fastest way to complete the screening of the state apparatus.

Jacobsen: What are considered – within Chinese culture – the foundational Chinese philosophies?

Wu: In ancient China, the main philosophies were Confucianism, Taoism, Mohism, Legalism, and Buddhism, particularly Confucianism, Buddhism, and Taoism, which continued to influence the Chinese even throughout the East Asian region. The book of Changes and Lao Zhuang are central to the Chinese people’s worldview, and Confucius and Mencius’s theories represent the ethical social outlook of the Chinese. Buddhists, on the other hand, promote the idealism of common causes and help each other with Confucianism and Taoism.

Xia: The thoughts of Confucianism and Taoism basically run through the development of the whole history of Chinese philosophy, and they are in a state of one after another. After Buddhism was introduced into China in the Han Dynasty, after the late Eastern Han Dynasty, the development of Sinicization in the two Jin and southern and Northern Dynasties formed a tripartite confrontation with Confucianism and Taoism, and even prevailed over Confucianism and Taoism for a time. At the end of the development of Buddhism, Zen has the greatest influence and the most successful localization in China. In a sense, Zen is the result of the integration of Confucianism, Buddhism and Taoism. At the same time, Zen is also the source of Taoism in song and Ming Dynasties. In the song and Ming Dynasties, in addition to the struggle between Neo Confucianism and psychology in the main line, there was also the criticism of “Qi based theory” materialism on Taoism. Finally, Wang Fuzhi summarized the ideological achievements of his predecessors, reaching the peak of ancient Chinese philosophy.

Yu: Confucianism.

Jacobsen: What values guide modern Chinese civilization?

Wu: I believe the most important values guiding modern Chinese are known as The Core Socialist Values, which include national values, social values, and individual values. National values include “prosperity”, “democracy”, “civilization” and “harmony”; Social values include “freedom”, “equality”, “justice” and the “rule of law”; And personal values include “patriotism”, “dedication”, “honesty” and “friendship”.

Xia: Prosperity, democracy, civilization, harmony, freedom, equality, justice, rule of law, patriotism, professionalism, integrity, and friendliness. Its specific content mainly includes the guiding ideology of Marxism and the common ideal of socialism with Chinese characteristics.

Yu: “Socialist core values,” lol.

Jacobsen: How has the high-I.Q. community changed over time in China?

Wu: Since the invention of intelligence tests about 100 years ago, human IQ test results have been steadily increasing; this phenomenon is called the Flynn effect. For example, a person with an average IQ today might be considered a genius in 1919. As far as I know, the high IQ community in China has remained virtually unchanged over time. It could be because intelligence tests have only recently become popular among Chinese people, the time is too short to get many people to participate in the tests, resulting in insufficient statistical data. By the way, it’s ironic that children in China are only sent to the hospital for an “intelligence test” if their parents suspect them of having “ADHD.”

Xia: The earliest is the hundreds of people in Mensa China and some online communities in China more than a decade ago. Then after the establishment of Shenghan club, China’s intellectual community began to grow rapidly, including club organizations such as GFIS, which gradually appeared in the public eye and interacted with variety TV programs.

Yu: It was Mensa China and Shenghan that started this organization, and then GFIS emerged to formalize the Chinese high IQ community. My next step is to have some high IQ societies to lead the high IQ community in China, can be accepted by the country and become more elite, not just an “interest group”.

Footnotes

[1] Fengzhi Wu (邬冯值) is the Founder & President of the God’s Power Society & The Chosen One High IQ Society, the Author of the Mystery Intelligence Test, and a Member of Nano Society,  EsoterIQ Society, 6G High IQ Society, GIGA Society (formerly Giga Society 190, and earlier United Giga Society), The Core IQ Society, The POINT Society, NOUS High IQ Society, Sidis Society, and Relic Society (遗迹).

[2] Craft Xia is the Founder is the Founder of CHIN.

[3] Tianxi Yu (余天曦) is a Member of God’s Power, CatholIQ, Chinese Genius Directory, EsoterIQ Society, Nano Society, and World Genius Directory, and GIGA Society (formerly Giga Society 190, and earlier United Giga Society).

[2] Individual Publication Date: July 8, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/chinese-1; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Scott Durgin on Patriarchal Institutions, Roman Catholicism, and the United States’ Freedoms: Member, Giga Society (3)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/07/08

Abstract

Scott Durgin is a Member of the Giga Society. He discusses: laws and policies enacted through sociopolitical attitudes; other post-colonial states; Protestants and Roman Catholics; women’s bodies; Dominionists; magical thinking; free expression and religious freedom; the right in American society; and closet Christians and cultural Christians.

Keywords: Carl Sagan, Catholic Church, Neil deGrasse Tyson, post-colonial states, Scott Durgin, SCOTUS.

Conversation with Scott Durgin on Patriarchal Institutions, Roman Catholicism, and the United States’ Freedoms: Member, Giga Society (3)

*Please see the references, footnotes, and citations, after the interview, respectively.*

*One interpolated addition on July 4, 2022, explicitly noted in the text.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Critical thinking arises in a number of educational contexts. What is “critical thinking” in the context of learning?

Scott Durgin[1],[2]*: I don’t think it’s possible to define critical thinking without going on for pages and pages. Critical thinking “in the context of learning” would not be too far different than the definition of critical thinking itself. What I could do is identify what I think are the cognitive skills or mental abilities involved in critical thinking. I’m sure most of this has been written elsewhere but at least four or five skills come to mind

  1. Interpretation
  2. Evaluation or examination.
  3. Analysis
  4. Inference and
  5. Self regulation, possibly the most important.

These particular skill sets must be coupled with a healthy sense of curiosity…to question without fear…to use REASON as the ultimate pathway to exercise critical thinking and arrive at the truth. That curiosity would force one to observe as many things as possible, to engage others, to read very deeply into many things, but also very broadly. Above all things to grow, so that one’s skills and capabilities improve with time. This seems to be a most relevant way to tie critical thinking to learning.

Jacobsen: How does critical thinking work in the real world, i.e., outside the confines of the academic system?

Durgin: Good question. I can honestly say that my abilities at critical thinking did not mature until after I had already learned how to learn. And learning how to learn cannot be done thoroughly without an academic experience: to change, modify, evolve and revolutionize one’s thinking.

Jacobsen: What is Carl Sagan’s legacy?

Durgin: Heroically and elegantly bringing scientific thinking to a popular audience.

Jacobsen: Why promote The Demon Haunted World above other texts on critical thinking and a scientific, skeptical mindset?

Durgin: Because this one book, read thoroughly perhaps twice perhaps 10 times, is all that is necessary to understand the basics of reason and critical thinking.

Jacobsen: Sagan is dead. Who took on the legacy of him, the mantle?

Durgin: I can’t say that for sure. I can tell you that I like a great many thinkers in the field. Neil deGrasse Tyson is probably my favorite. Just boundless energy, incisively argumentative and affably entertaining. Bill Nye, excellent individual. Richard Dawkins Christopher Hitchens many others.

Jacobsen: Neil deGrasse Tyson has an amazing personal history, individual story, with Carl Sagan, as a youngster. How has Sagan, through his legacy, created a buttress against pseudoscience, religious fundamentalism, and the irrational?

Durgin: It’s actually not much of a buttress with people who are on the wrong side of science and politics and religion. In the United States we spend a pittance of public money on science and education compared to what we spend on other things. We live in a country where most religious people believe it is their duty to stop others from doing things that the religious people dislike.  They are clueless as to how the Constitution automatically stops them. They basically plug their ears, drag their small dicks into their huge monster trucks and just drive over anybody who tries to educate them.

Jacobsen: How did the Roman Catholic Church love Hitler?

Durgin: How did they not? The papacy basically trained all their followers to be abjectly terrified of Bolshevism Marxism and communism. How this ramped up after World War II with the Dulles brothers in this country and many others is remarkable. Fascism, which the church is very much akin to living as a philosophy, was completely ignored. Hitler had free reign mostly. The only reason why the papacy and the Catholic Church feared and opposed Hitler was because he began shutting down certain areas of the Catholic Church. When it came to slaughtering Jews, Freemasons, protestants, orthodox Christians and Serbs; the Catholic Church adopted a deafening silence. Their concordat with Hitler occurred only months after Hitler gained significant power in 1933. He of course gained ultimate power by 1934 when Hindenburg died. Pope Pius the 12th literally kept secret Hitler’s plans to invade Poland who ironically had a shit ton of Catholics in that country. The pope likely agonized over the decision knowing what Hitler was going to do but unable to inform even his followers. He knew however that the survival of the supremacy of the Catholic Church was more important than a few tens of thousands of Catholics dying.

Jacobsen: How did the Roman Catholic Church love Stalin?

Durgin: They didn’t love Stalin but they were certainly able to tolerate him…he killed more Jews than Hitler and simply by being an autocrat (as stated before) allowed the church a piece of mind. Who cares about Stalin when they were very few Catholics in the country?

Jacobsen: What about Mussolini, Franco, Perron, etc.?

Durgin: Again same argument. Details are unnecessary here; the fact that they are Autocrats, authoritarians, dictators means that international and sovereign states like the Catholic Church have any easy time with diplomacy. Deal with one man and you help steer the course of the entire country. Mussolini was a really special kind of ignoramus. Utter fascist patriarchal fuckstick of a dictator.

Jacobsen: Why focus on the small hierarchy, the elites, rather than the priests or laity? I interviewed Fr. George Coyne, at one time, and was supposed to do a second interview prior to his death (who went into surgery and, presumably, never came out alive, which became an important lesson left for me; his last great gift to me). He was somewhat liberal minded as a Christian and oriented towards a scientifically educated perspective, particularly astrophysics.

Durgin: The hierarchy is the problem. Just a few hundred backward thinking men set atop the organization (did I mention the holy see is a sovereign state?). They are the problem, so I adopt a similar approach to dealing with an issue as the Catholic Church does. It clearly has worked for them over 1500 years. Anybody attempting to deal with a serpent or dragon focuses on the head. Only stands to reason.

Jacobsen: How does a majoritarian rule buffer against Holy See intrusion in political affairs?

Durgin: When the government is owned by the people (all the people not just some), whose law is codified in a constitution it doesn’t matter if 99% of the people in the country are converted to Catholicism. Including the senators and representatives and the justices. The constitution is not a religious document. A constitutional “majoritarian” democratic republic is protected by the Constitution, because eliminating all religious opponents does not change the fact that the Constitution protects all religions. The constitution is our law; not what the president says or what congressmen say or what judges say…there can be no authoritarian in a country where the constitution is the law. So no matter how many heads of state the Vatican attempts to have assassinated, it doesn’t change the Constitution. This likely pisses them off to no end which is why they have taken decades upon decades in an attempt to infiltrate the Supreme Court, which they appear to be successfully doing.

Jacobsen: With the American example, what are the clearcut examples of the Roman Catholic Church, and its empowered representatives in institutional positions of power in the United States of America, attempting to undermine American democracy?

Durgin: Five Supreme Court justices who seem to think that the constitution does not grant freedoms unless they are specifically called out in the constitution. Which is a ridiculously ignorant way of looking at it. If all the freedoms that we have needed to be enumerated in the constitution it would be 10 miles thick. This is why Madison and Jefferson and others took more than 30 years to perfect certain ideas like a separation of church and state. But somehow justices Alito, Gorsuch and Kavanaugh, the flip-flopping bone-headed Clarence Thomas, and the newly seated, starry eyed ignorant Amy Coney Barrett are completely ignorant of this fact when they allow a woman’s right to (reproductive) freedom to fall back on a bunch of Bible Belt, ignorantly run states, who are hell-bent on pretending they’re protecting a fetus while they stomp all over the fundamental right the woman has in the first place. How’s that for an opinion. Richard Dawkins believes that this latest decision by Scotus is nothing more than an attempt to allow religion to once again control the freedoms of Americans. I tend to agree. I am especially disappointed in John Roberts.

*Beginning of Addition: 4th July 2022*

This recent uber-focus on Roe v. Wade decision completely obscured my awareness of an equally devastating Scotus decision a few days earlier. This involves church state separation, against which the Catholic Church has been resisting, fighting, complaining, obstructing, seething, spitting and farting and twisting in their seats for decades.

Some clever Jesuits (who have obviously been pushing the five Scotus conservatives) have been effective at allowing to proliferate an inferior and surreptitiously deceptive interpretation of what church state separation means.

Nearly the entire motivation for Jefferson and Madison to spend 30 fucking years evolving and perfecting the precept of church state separation was to prevent emboldening the Catholic Church from imagining they could dominate civil life because they have a majority of people in the country who are Catholic.

The reality is public funds CANNOT BE USED to support or endorse a particular religious organization. Not on my constitutional watch. Public funds meaning government funds, like subsidies for schools etc.

The only way for every religion in the country to be protected is to make sure that ALL FORMS OF GOVERNMENT REMAIN RELIGIOUSLY NEUTRAL. There should be no argument here. But this falls on purposely deaf ears with John Roberts, Samuel Alito, Neil Gorsuch, Brett Kavanaugh and the starry eyed naïve ignorant Amy Coney Barrett, not to mention Hammerhead Clarence Thomas. John Roberts cleverly obfuscated the issue when he opined on the case in the state of Maine: “there is nothing neutral here in what Maine is doing” (paraphrased, not exact quote), as if to suggest that the church state separation concept is supposed to mean general neutrality**, when it is not! It means RELIGIOUS neutrality, thus 365+ different religions must be represented and supported if public money is going to be used. The public consists of ALL RELIGIONS including no religion, and therefore public money must be either

  1. Supporting/ endorsing every single religion on the face of the earth or
  2. Endorsing none.

The impracticality of the former is obvious. Eleanor Roosevelt fought Cardinal Spellman on this in the 1940s. Spellman lost, thank god. Move on. Government must stay out of funding particular religious organizations. The Bill of Rights demand it. Freedom demands it. Public funds do not belong supporting a religious school. This is also why we cannot have Jesus’s words on state property, because state property is PUBLIC property. Public property (government property) may not endorse any one religion, this is ninth grade civics every one should know. Religion is a private matter. This is the essence of the separation of church and state. It protects minorities from being overrun by religious majorities who believe it is their duty to convert the entire world. This country was founded to stop that nonsense. In fact it was founded in the bloody wake of the Catholic Church exercising for CENTURIES what it believed to be its “divine” authority to convert the world, by killing, raping, burning, marginalizing, exorcising every person who expressed religious beliefs other than Catholic beliefs.

The church needed to be stopped and they’ve been PISSED OFF ever since. Too bad. They don’t like religion being a private matter of opinion, equal to all others. Again, too bad. This is a free country where people are free to worship however they want and no one would feel free or be free if public money or official funds supported Hindu schools or Muslim schools any more than Christian schools.

Now this country is upside down because of ignorance and outright malice spewing forth from five conservative justices who are ANGRY this country is moving forward – PROGRESSING – and they are attempting to swing the country backward by 100 years or more because they are uncomfortable with their Christian majority WANING. And somehow they believe that because there is a Christian majority citizenry that religious freedom doesn’t work.

Third time: Too bad.

We need everybody in this country to forcibly stop this politically and clearly religiously biased gang within the supreme court from deciding on any other important rule of law. The gang of 5 plus Roberts is now an utter waste of public trust. Period.

** Roberts is deftly claiming that public funds should be granted to both religious and non-religious schools (pretending that this means “neutral”) thus completely evading the central issue of religious neutrality. PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS MUST BE RELIGIOUSLY NEUTRAL.

Roberts can now get on with either forced retirement or recusal for this wanton ignorance or wanton deception. Pick one.

*End of Addition: 4th July 2022*

Jacobsen: I’ve interviewed a number of prominent African-American freethinkers in the United States – real leaders – about their involvement in combatting Christian supremacy in the United States, particularly apt for them in consideration of the white supremacist orientation of history and patterns of aspects of Christianity, including Roman Catholicism. Christian European-Americans’ construction of institutions for the maintenance of authority over African-Americans in general. Those legacy European-Americans with autocratic Christianity in their minds who may buy into “Great Replacement Theory” and such, so as to express their sense of unipolar focus on “white” myths, Christian theology, and truly grounded in fear of the “Other.” Those who unknowingly proclaim lies boldly, belying individuals cowered into a corner and lashing out in terror. What is the association – not the core or the only, obviously – between white supremacy, i.e., laws and policies enacted through sociopolitical attitudes, and Roman Catholicism in the United States?

Durgin: Privileged, domineering, white patriarchal bigotry. These people knowingly and willingly want to take the United States back to the 1950s. Pretty clear.

Jacobsen: Following from the previous question, how does this look in other post-colonial states with a majority, or near majority, Christian identifying population, i.e., New Zealand, Australia, Canada, and South Africa?

Durgin: If they have a constitution that separates church and state then they should not be having a problem. Unfortunately the interpretation of separation of church and state is 100% lost on a lot of religious people in this country. I do not know how tightly religious freedom is coupled to the law of the land in other countries.

Jacobsen: How are Protestants and Roman Catholics, ideologically, converging on making Christian an official identity of nationality in the United States now?

Durgin: The next 10 years will answer this question. We are now in an era where only 10 years will almost exactly parallel how Hitler came to power in Germany. My opinion.

Jacobsen: I’ve made some observations as to women’s bodies as the true point of battleground for the fundamentalist Christians in the United States of America. To me, it seems as though the aim is the restriction of women’s choices about their destinies starting with reproduction. With Roe v Wade as a news item, recently, what makes this particularly poignant about attempts at intrusion of Roman Catholic dogma about when life starts, women’s bodies, and legislation focusing on these items impactful on women’s bodies, so fates?

Durgin: What makes this particularly poignant is that they are succeeding.

Jacobsen: You used the term Dominionists. A religious ideology, Dominionism, founded on Genesis 1:28 (KJV). A passage about dominion over the Earth by earthly, Christian forces. This transcendentally awful (im)moral basis for American centralized theonomy makes for open declarations, based on religious scripture, of the merger of religion and state rather than the separation of religious institutions and states. It means, in essence, a declaration for theocratic globalism, which means theocratic autocracy (as in singular domineering control) rather than democratic multicultural universalism (or the basis of most respected international human rights and associated organizations and institutions). Who are the main framers of Dominionist theology in America? Why is America an apparent central focus on these individuals now?

Durgin: I don’t know. What I highly suspect is that the 2030s will see a stupendous push on the part of the right wing in many countries to co-opt both the meaning and the implementation of the building of the so-called “third temple” in Jerusalem. Easter of 2034 will be the beginning of it if not a little before. October 2041 will likely be its culmination. I honestly don’t know how the intervening years will play out because I do believe there are genuinely naïve and beneficial forces who will be involved in building such a temple; but the right wing will have none of this (unless it is 100% Christian, by God!), so if the right wing January 6 fascists build up like Hitler did, between now and 2030, they may have the ability to co-opt the effort.

Jacobsen: Also, back to critical thinking, these institutions remain built on magical thinking over centuries molded into institutions used for social influence, political power, and legislative entrenchment. How is the magical thinking without challenge a basis for the snowball effects, as with the Roman Catholic Church, over decades in countries and over centuries in spheres of influence?

Durgin: Not sure how to answer that, but if this country spent more money on science and education in the public sphere, we would be much better off and unlikely to fall into a hole. The entire public needs to be vested in scientific thinking, scientific methods and scientific conclusions, which means there needs to be a tenfold increase in spending on education, science, mathematics and perhaps constitutional freedom and the three masonic pillars (at least politically in this country): 1. The emancipation of women. 2. Limits on state power. 3. Separation of church and state. Those three things are anathema to the Catholic Church.

Jacobsen: When I interviewed some members of The Satanic Temple, two noted Evangelical Christians in the United States, if they don’t get precisely what they want 100% of the time, then they cry, as you note, “Victim.” Roman Catholics, based on the statement by you, make the same play as victims. The irony: individuals who deplore victim-ology or victimhood in other ideologies enacting the same, as in a pervasive projection of their own psychology, rather than an identification of a necessary cultural reality. Akin to cancel culture proclamations, with temporary, at times, actualizations in some professionals, they forget the centuries of history of real cancel culture in Christianity with book burning, book banning, torture, murders, and the like, in the name of Jesus Christ and the Kingdom of God as proclaimed by Christianity. The most pervasive, long-lasting, cruel, violent, and vicious cancel culture has come from religious fundamentalists with the mastery of torture and destruction of free expression. Again, it seems a simple act of projection. Even if admitted, it becomes softened, as in, ‘It happened a long time ago,’ as if light acceptance of ubiquitous history means absolution of the crimes in the name of Christianity. In many ways, in further irony, their purported fears and decline could be seen theologically as an inverse ROI, or return on investment, of all the imprecations (e.g., imprecatory prayers) against others not them. (Why not get the message? Their God is punching them in the face and kicking them in the nuts, constantly.) How are American rights to free expression and religious freedom a counter to this history of Christian imposition?

Durgin: Projection is exactly right. But…In this country the Constitution guarantees that every individual is a sovereign regarding his/her choice of worship, belief in God or an afterlife and his/her autonomous freedom to exercise such beliefs, as long as he/she does not attempt to remove the sovereignty of another citizen.

Jacobsen: Why are some individuals who support Trump bound to the idea of a stolen election and the era of the 1950s? Why the attempts to make a “safe space” for them through the entire nation rather than simply their longstanding “safe spaces” in churches, in cathedrals, in Klan meetings for some, or in whole universities with Christian private postsecondary institutions? Not a distant reality in Canada here, in micro, 5 minutes down the road is Trinity Western University. Its administrators and brand-marketers declare the institution an “arm of the church,” in full as a mission statement:

The mission of Trinity Western University, as an arm of the Church, is to develop godly Christian leaders: positive, goal-oriented university graduates with thoroughly Christian minds; growing disciples of Jesus Christ who glorify God through fulfilling the Great Commission, serving God and people in the various marketplaces of life.

While, at the same time, on tax-breaks for land used by the university, attempting to get funding from the government (though a private Evangelical Christian religious institution), harbouring a community covenant openly discriminatory against LGBTI+ individuals, and lead for decades by a president who resigned in the 2000s around the time of a sexual misconduct claim against him, one woman, at one job (who I worked with), who worked with him excused the claim by saying, “He was lonely.” (Nice.) Fundamentalist Evangelicals and Roman Catholic Christians with a literalist orientation seem socio-politically aligned. Is the fight in some parts of Canada akin to the right in American society, though more pervasive in the American example?

Durgin: I don’t know. But it is a very simple thing to realize that for decades upon decades in this country we teach women when they are girls of 5 to 6 years old that when a boy teases or pushes or torments or otherwise attacks them (admittedly sometimes in a not very harmful way physically) what do we teach that little girl? We tell her “Oh he likes you”. This is the beginning of women tolerating men’s bad behavior and it is the beginning of men dominating women and women actually allowing it. We ACTUALLY TEACH five-year-old girls that boys mistreating them means “He likes you”. Just sit back and THINK about that and you have your answer as to why we are in this conundrum today. Many girls of course want boys to like them so the lesson is they should start tolerating their bad behavior. Until this is stamped out with all eviscerating justice and blunt force the world will continue to wallow in patriarchal ignorance.

Jacobsen: There are figures within Canadian society who amount to closet Christians and cultural Christians acting as apologists for Christian doctrines and sociopolitical concerns without open, public stipulation as such, e.g., Dr. Jordan Peterson. We could see this from more than a decade ago in his media presence. He seemed surprised by the catapult to prominence at the start and oriented more clearly to it. Now, he embraces the minor fame and Christian orientation with absurdist comedy not intended as such, presenting ‘arguments’ of the Bible as “meta-true” in some moments. I see this as a defensive move. Canadian Christianity on the defensive and individuals highly sympathetic to its more regressive doctrines acting more surreptitiously to influence culture. Indeed, Peterson has noted it’s more effective to promote Christianity indirectly rather than directly; his motives are clear, though arguments remain jumbled – see: Nathan Robinson’s “The Intellectual We Deserve” – and emotional life seems highly labile (fake at times and real at others) – see: random, assorted crying and breakdown bouts & pouts.

Durgin: lol no time. 24 June 8:37 pm.

Footnotes

[1] Member, Giga Society.

[2] Individual Publication Date: July 8, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/durgin-3; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Clelia Albano on Family, Democratic Values, Religion and Skepticism, Dawkins, Gadamer, Wikipedian, and Cosmopolitan Weltanschauung Cosmic: Member, Capabilis (2)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/07/08

Abstract

Clelia Albano is from Italy. She’s a teacher of Italian and Latin, painter and poet writing in Italian and English. She is a member of Capabilis and USIA. She has two collections of poetry, In Assenza di Naufragi, that was a finalist for the National Literary Contest “Il Mio Esordio 2018,” selected by the International Festival of Poetry of Genova, and “Come Tutte Le Cose di Questo Mondo”, a prosimetrum. She’s been published also in English on the American anthology “Winter” and by the literary magazine “The Night Heron Barks”. She loves reading, learning languages and editing for Wikipedia, which she has done since 2012. She was a finalist with “Come Tutte Le Cose di Questo Mondo” for the “Premio Internazionale Mario Luzi” 2020. She discusses: Latin and Greek in Naples; WWII; a sense of the importance of democracy; independence of the feminine side; earliest inklings of skepticism over religion; grotesque sides of religious faith; paint; poetry written in youth; aspects of the mind; linguistic codes; expansive memory; geniuses; perceptions of geniuses; main aspects of church corruption criticized by Dante; inspirations for writing the books; paintings; a Wikipedian; highly manipulative; the attraction of supernatural entities; scientists like Dawkins; an automaton; Gadamer’s presentation of Art in Truth and Method (1960); a democratic socialist; and cosmopolitan weltanschauung cosmic.

Keywords: Clelia Albano, cosmopolitan weltanschauung cosmic, Dante, Dawkins, Gadamer, geniuses, Italy, Naples, Wikipedian, WWII.

Conversation with Clelia Albano on Family, Democratic Values, Religion and Skepticism, Dawkins, Gadamer, Wikipedian, and Cosmopolitan Weltanschauung Cosmic: Member, Capabilis (2)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: How did your father get into teaching Latin and Greek in Naples?

Clelia Albano[1],[2]*: My father was from Naples. He grew up and received his education there.

He attended the Classic Lyceum where Greek and Latin are the basic curricular subjects and given his attitude towards humanities and ancient languages he earned the degree in Ancient literatures and languages at the hometown University “Federico II”.

Jacobsen: What are some of the remarkable stories of family, ancestors and relatives, in association with WWII?

Albano: Apart from historical recounts, I was told by my father and my grandmother about one of the worst issues brought by the war: the scarcity of food. The family had to adapt the diet to a flour made from chestnuts and to other poor food.

This was an experience that in the following years gave the food a centrality almost religious in my father’s family. To be nourished in a proper way was considered a priority by my relatives and by my daddy, the first prescription to keep oneself healthy and alive. I was influenced by this idea.

Jacobsen: How have these stories helped develop a sense of the importance of democracy?

Albano: As I told you in our previous interview, I was raised according to democratic values developed and strengthened by my paternal family particularly as a reaction to the social, cultural and individual repression under Fascism.

Jacobsen: How have you incorporated this independence of the feminine side into your own narrative and life path?

Albano: By following and expressing my attitudes, my preferences, beliefs, regardless of cliché, conventions and the others’ judgements.

Jacobsen: What were the earliest inklings of skepticism over religion?

Albano: Well, I clearly remember that, especially in my teens, I got upset with the incoherent behaviour of some believers. Beside this I have something to say about religion that will surprise you. In the last months I have been caught by a desire for faith and for praying. Maybe the seeds of faith to which I was raised never abandoned me. Of course there are things I am still skeptical about, but I know inside of me that often I have suffered the loss of this religious vocabulary that unavoidably knock on the door of my lexical repertory at Christmas time or at Easter, or when I am in despair and I realize that the words in my possession lack of spiritual energy. Because I think we are our words, we are what we say and my idea is that even spirituality, the good and the evil are made of words. Once I read a remarkable scientific study on the human brain and the DNA sequences. I read something that amazed me because I had thought a lot of times that words might change the human brain’s map. This would be explicative of both the healing process and the development of a disease. When I stopped to believe in transcendence I never excluded the idea of mystery in our lives. Thus, before the influence of prayers and their healing power in several cases, I was open to the possibility that they have an effectual power. In the above mentioned study, the researchers had found that if we speak words of sorrow, anger, or we semantically express the wish to die, in sum if we speak words against ourselves, we might cause some changes in our DNA, since each sequence is very similar to the linguistic code. In other words it would be like replacing the healthy words of the DNA with sick and deadly words. So when we make a negative wish and we desire to die we run the risk that it comes true. That’s why I think that prayers might have some influence.

Jacobsen: What were those grotesque sides of religious faith to your father?

Albano: By grotesque I meant the combination of religion and superstition together, which gives flesh to rituals and objects where it is hard to distinguish the threshold between devotion and talismanic gestures. However there is also an awesome side of this combination.

In Naples it is still present this way of interpreting and living faith; so you will find in several contexts, amulets along with pictures of Jesus.

My father had a rational conception of faith and he thought that religion is the opposite of superstition.

Jacobsen: What kinds of things did you paint?

Albano: I painted mainly African subjects.

Jacobsen: What themes were common in the poetry written in youth if any?

Albano: More or less the contemplation of the world, the desire to be elsewhere in the far sides of the world, the oneiric side of life.

Jacobsen: What aspects of the mind cannot be measured?

Albano: creativity and inspiration. Another aspect is dreaming. Although there’s a Freudian part of me that tends to interpret dreams according to psychoanalytic symbology, the other side of me rejects the positivist conviction that the oneiric dimension can be dissected and notomized by Freudian schemes.

Jacobsen: How are “reality, life and experiences… linguistic codes”?

Albano: Sorry for repeating myself. They are made of words. That’s what I think. Also “God” is a word. Is there something we can think about without giving it a name?

Jacobsen: When you came across individuals comfortable amongst the extraordinary, what was the intuitive, innate reaction in you, as the normal reaction was, more commonly, astonishment with the, for example, more expansive memory?

Albano: Well, on the one hand my reaction was of admiration. On the other hand, I tried and I still try to learn from them. By observing their approach to life, science and technology, by observing their idea of faith, for example. As I told you before I have felt the urge to speak and think like a believer once again in my life. In the groups I am a member of, High IQ groups, I happened to find very gifted people who are believers. Particularly I was struck by the words of the creator of several High IQ Sites, tests, creator of GENIUS High IQ Networks, a Mensan and awarded as one of the most intelligent men in the world, who has faith in God. Somehow I felt comfortable with that side of me that even when rejected religion never got entirely skeptical.

Jacobsen: Why are geniuses, fundamentally, perceived as a “threat” or as “dangerous”?

Albano: Because generally they bring changes and discoveries that subvert the ordinary. Some people live in the dreads of progress. They feel more comfortable with held beliefs.

Jacobsen: Are these perceptions of geniuses generally legitimate or illegitimate?

Albano: In my humble opinion they are legitimate for the reasons I just have illustrated. There is also a conspicuous portion of the population who is enthusiastic about progress. But I think, in addition, that there are progressivists who trust scientific and philosophical knowledge, and by contrast, disagree with certain scientific projects for they involve social and ecological risks. Just to take but one example, the idea of colonising other planets sounds as a form of neo-colonialism to many progressive people, because both the financial investments for those enterprises and the plan to build up cities on extra-terrestrial environments involve the risks of polluting them.

Jacobsen: What were the main aspects of church corruption criticized by Dante? How did he go about doing it?

Albano: At the time of Dante, the Church had lost the role of spiritual guide. The main reason was that most of the ecclesiastical officials conducted a mundane life, exerted a political power on the believers; they did act against the Christian principles. There were Popes and archbishops who didn’t disdain to have concubines and to have children, disrespecting the vote of chastity. They betrayed the vote of poverty by accumulating money, richness and commodities of every sort. The Church of Saint Peter, held both the temporal and the spiritual powers; the abuses it perpetrated, emerged particularly during the civil battles between the Communes when the supporters of the Pope on the one side and the supporters of the imperator on the other, formed respectively the factions of Guelfs and Ghibellines. Dante, who had a profound devotion and who dreamt of a pure Christianity based on a religion that took care only of souls, denounced in the Comedy what was in contrast with the predicament of Jesus.

Jacobsen: What were the inspirations for writing the books?

Albano: The books I published are collections of poems I wrote in different times of my life. Each poem came from a particular and unique inspiration.

Jacobsen: What are paintings focused on thematically now?

Albano: Unfortunately, it’s ages. I don’t paint. I’m focused more on poetry and the lack of time made its part.

Jacobsen: What kind of edits and additions have you been making as a Wikipedian?

Albano: I have created articles for Wikipedia in English and in Italian, mostly biographic. Generally, I work on literary and artistic contents, but also on contents related to public figures in the field of whistle-blowing, hackers and human rights advocacy.

I have translated into Italian English Wikipedia entries on painters that were not on Wikipedia It. I have integrated several entries. I am particularly proud of the creation of the wiki bio of a contemporary artist, New York based, who is now exhibited at the Guggenheim.

Jacobsen: What immediately strikes you about individuals who are highly intelligent, highly creative, or both, while being, in other aspects of their lives ‘misogynistic, racist, and sadistic’?

Albano: They are highly manipulative. At the beginning they are fascinating because of the way they talk, the way they capture your attention. They use all the tricks to reach the goal. You can find that they write books about human rights, papers against discrimination, tons of words to condemn domestic violence, poems to celebrate women and on the other hand they gradually reveal to not practice what they preach. I mean that if you pay attention you will catch their missteps. I have experienced that.

Jacobsen: What was the attraction of supernatural entities hypothesized by adults and authorities as a youth?

Albano: When I was a child at the end of the 70s early 80s, the TV and cinema main subject was the extra-terrestrial world. I remember that knowledge and science were focused on planet earth and on space. I was given as a gift a book by David Attenborough, “Life on Earth: A Natural History” and on the other side there was this huge interest in life on the other planets, life on Mars, et cetera. The idea of an E T. somewhere, ready to get in touch with me excited my fantasy for a certain time.

Jacobsen: Regarding “scientists like Dawkins,” what is the fear induced there? Is this a common sentiment?

Albano: In my previous interview I said that I don’t like the so-called new atheists because I refuse the idea we are only chemistry. I fear that a human being might end up like a predictable text.

Jacobsen: How is an automaton, though Carbon-formed and naturally evolved, view of human beings “creepy”? Can you expand on this, please?

Albano: Yes, I will try to expand. Well, the idea that we are determined only by our DNA would mean that we are predestined to be good or evil and that everything we do is not the consequence of a conscious decision but of a series of actions embedded by default in our cerebral circuits. It would make education, knowledge, religion, philosophy, all that mankind created, meaningless. This view of a human being is scary to me.

Jacobsen: With Gadamer’s presentation of Art in Truth and Method (1960) as the “transmission for meanings across time,” in some way, this circumnavigates the issues, pointed out by you, of siloing of disciplines and the fragmentation of knowledge seen in other disciplines than Art. Even though, art created by individuals across time can be interpreted in multiple ways with various depths of analysis to yield commonality of values or ethics. Can codification and trans-codification remain at risk of interpretation to ‘common’ values without benefit to human beings in general – or values seen across time with more degenerative effects on individuals and societies, e.g., artistic works interpreted across time through a reference frame of nihilistic ethics (or nihilistic anti-morality/non-morality)? Although, at the same time, these could be interpreted in more Christian Existentialist in some lenses or humanistic in frames. In that, it’s not a big risk, but it can be one. Who gets the interpretive authority in the end, in other words?

Albano: Of course there might be the risk of misinterpretation or even the risk of manipulative interpretations. This question is very important because you touch on an essential point which is ethics. We know that in the Middle Age they interpreted pagan authors from the Latin world or the Greek world through the lens of the Christian religion. In doing so they subverted the real meaning of works of literature, philosophy and so forth. There is the opposite risk, though. Also atheism or political regimes, dictatorships, in history, have deliberately misinterpreted works of art and literature. The risk is avoided if interpretation entails an hermeneutics free from prejudices – pre-judices in the gadamerian sense -. The second relevant point of your question is “who gets the interpretative authority”. In my humble opinion it is wrong to refer to a single one authority because I don’t share the view according to which only one cultural canon is established as valid, putting all the others beneath. This happens with the so-called Western Canon, for example. Once I read “The Western Canon ”, written by Harold Bloom. I must admit that I assimilated many intriguing concepts, but there was something utterly disturbing in Bloom’s contempt towards multiculturalism. We can’t ignore that also on the opposite side of the earth, Asia, Middle-East, Iran that previously was that magnificent empire of Persia, art, literature, philosophy, flourished. They produced myths, religions, archetypal figures fraught with meaning. They had writers and philosophers, who range amongst the greatest in human history. So, why do we talk only about the Western Canon? Where is the Eastern Canon or the Multicultural Canon?

Jacobsen: What society most resembles a democratic socialist one to you?

Albano: In the actual world no one. Democratic socialism is yet to come.

Jacobsen: As a cosmopolitan weltanschauung cosmic, with only this one life to live, what are your plans for this one life with the “bonds of affection, empathy [and] progress” to fill the void for you?

Albano: I will surprise you once again. As I have said above I feel this need of spirituality but don’t expect me to say that I have now a religious vision of the afterlife. I know it sounds contradictory. The fact is that I don’t exclude another dimension after we pass away. Where it will be and what aspect it has, I can’t imagine. Maybe when we die we are transformed into energy and, who knows, maybe this energy goes somewhere even here in this world…

Jacobsen: Thank you for the opportunity and your time, Clelia.

Albano: Thanks back, dear Scott. Your interviews are amazing. I really appreciate this opportunity you give.

Footnotes

[1] Italian & Latin Teacher; Painter; Poet, Member, Capabilis; Member, USIA.

[2] Individual Publication Date: July 15, 2022: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/albano-2; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Craft Xia on Life, Work, and Views: Founder, CHIN (1)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/07/08

Abstract

Craft Xia is the Founder of CHIN. He discusses: growing up; extended self; family background; youth with friends; education; purpose of intelligence tests; high intelligence; extreme reactions to geniuses; greatest geniuses; genius and a profoundly gifted person; necessities for genius or the definition of genius; work experiences and jobs held; job path; myths of the gifted; God; science; tests taken and scores earned; range of the scores; ethical philosophy; political philosophy; metaphysics; worldview; meaning in life; source of meaning; afterlife; life; and love.

Keywords: ancient Chinese, books, CHIN, Chinese people, computer skills, Craft Xia, family, graphic design, high IQ, James Clerk Maxwell, LSHR Light, Nietzsche, Religion, Steven Weinberg, Strict Logic Sequences Examination – Form II, Strict Logic Spatial Examination 48, Xinjiang.

Conversation with Craft Xia on Life, Work, and Views: Founder, CHIN (1)

*Please see the references, footnotes, and citations, after the interview, respectively.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: When you were growing up, what were some of the prominent family stories being told over time?

Craft Xia: In my childhood memory, the prominent family stories I heard of were all read from books, such as Three Moves by Mencius’ Mother, Kong Rong Giving Away Bigger Pears, and so on. These were also touched in school education. It is no different from what ordinary Chinese children are exposed to.

Jacobsen: Have these stories helped provide a sense of an extended self or a sense of the family legacy?

Xia: These ancient Chinese family stories and the family stories of some world celebrities are part of the education most people receive in their childhood, and are mainly used to guide the construction of values and morality. In this regard, my family did not give me too much help. The education and information I came into contact with in my childhood mainly came from school. From then on, I did get some sense of self extension, but it was not a family legacy.

Jacobsen: What was the family background, e.g., geography, culture, language, and religion or lack thereof?

Xia: My family is a single parent family, my parents’ education level is average. I was born in Xinjiang Province in Northwest China. There are many Gobi deserts and snow mountains in Xinjiang. I am a Han nationality. There are many Muslims in Xinjiang, but my family, including me, has no religious beliefs.

Jacobsen: How was the experience with peers and schoolmates as a child and an adolescent?

Xia: I got along well with my peers in my childhood and adolescence, probably because I was gentle and friendly. I usually made a good impression on others.

Jacobsen: What have been some professional certifications, qualifications, and trainings earned by you?

Xia: I have a professional certificate in computer skills and a certificate in graphic design.

Jacobsen: What is the purpose of intelligence tests to you?

Xia: When I first came into contact with the intelligence test, I thought it was a test of cognitive ability and cognitive model. Now I take it more as an interest. I think its purpose is in general applications, such as the identification of people with intellectual disabilities, and the identification of people with good logical ability and cognitive ability.

Jacobsen: When was high intelligence discovered for you?

Xia: When I was a junior high school student.

Jacobsen: When you think of the ways in which the geniuses of the past have either been mocked, vilified, and condemned if not killed, or praised, flattered, platformed, and revered, what seems like the reason for the extreme reactions to and treatment of geniuses? Many alive today seem camera shy – many, not all.

Xia: Generally speaking, from a social point of view, geniuses refer to people with extremely outstanding abilities, who can have a great impact on the creation and distribution of social interests. However, the acts of geniuses will inevitably produce beneficiaries and people whose interests are damaged. Those who benefit from them flatter them, while those whose interests are damaged slander them. For example, Copernicus’ discovery violated the interests of the church, Royal rife’s research and invention touched the interests of the U.S. medical industry at that time. Jealousy and other issues are essentially disputes of interests. I think not only geniuses, but also people with great influence will be subjected to such extreme reactions and treatment.

Jacobsen: Who seems like the greatest geniuses in history to you?

Xia: James Clerk Maxwell.

Jacobsen: What differentiates a genius from a profoundly intelligent person?

Xia: In my opinion, genius is a talent that is far beyond ordinary people in a certain field and can not be crossed with ordinary efforts. However, people with high IQ are people who have higher cognitive and logical abilities than ordinary people, but do not necessarily have super talents in some specific aspects. They often can see the essence of things better than ordinary people.

Jacobsen: Is profound intelligence necessary for genius?

Xia: I don’t think it’s necessary.

Jacobsen: What have been some work experiences and jobs held by you?

Xia: I have worked as a programmer and designer, as well as in the blockchain industry

Jacobsen: Why pursue this particular job path?

Xia: I majored in software engineering in college, but also because of some of my personal interests

Jacobsen: What are some of the more important aspects of the idea of the gifted and geniuses? Those myths that pervade the cultures of the world. What are those myths? What truths dispel them?

Xia: The genius understood by the western world is generally extremely sensitive in the fields of physical mathematics and other natural sciences, but more sensitive in the field of psychological art. In the eyes of the Chinese people, the judgment standard of genius is generally based on the number of achievements, and these achievements are obtained in a very short time. Schopenhauer has interpreted genius in this way. Only those people with the highest spiritual endowment, which we call “genius”, can enter such a state: they are fully devoted to artistic creation or scientific research, and are completely occupied by them. Therefore, the whole life is closely intertwined with these things, so that they lose interest in anything else.

Many people think that genius is highly related to physics, mathematics and other disciplines. In fact, every field has its own genius, but its influence on society is different.

The history of many ethnic groups begins with myth. I think myth is that primitive people in the past explained some natural phenomena that they could not explain according to their own understanding. However, there were no words or other recordable things at that time, so they had to rely on language to pass down such things. They use stories or poems that are easier to remember and tell, so they are easier to pass down. In the process of narration, it is inevitable to add some exaggerated rhetorical devices, so the present myth is slowly formed.

With the more and more profound understanding of the material world, especially the great emancipation of social and humanistic thoughts in modern history, the war has also promoted the blending of civilizations in various regions, just like a violent chemical reaction. In such an environment, a group of great geniuses have been born. They come with the truth and greatly promoted the process of human civilization.

Jacobsen: Any thoughts on the God concept or gods idea and philosophy, theology, and religion?

Xia: Steven Weinberg once said: With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil — that takes religion.

I think religion is declining. According to the 2010 survey, the proportion of people who believe in God in the 27 EU countries has dropped to 51%. Moreover, the more developed European countries are, the lower the proportion of believers is, and the higher the proportion of atheists is. Maybe because I was born in China, Chinese people generally do not believe in religion. If the environment is suitable, I think I may also believe in religion.

The religious people in ancient society suffered from an ontologicalnostalgia. They always longed deeply to live in the sacred and to be infiltrated by the power of the real existence represented by the sacred. The prevalence of nihilism today is due to the cultural stripping of sacredness

I like Plato’s words about philosophy: It (Philosophy) is a science that not only looks for what it is, but also why it is.

Jacobsen: How much does science play into the worldview for you?

Xia: I think that in the process of gradually enriching my knowledge of the world, science basically constitutes my world outlook. Science has eliminated many of my doubts, but it has also brought some ultimate problems about the material world and some more thinking about the essence.

Jacobsen: What have been some of the tests taken and scores earned (with standard deviations) for you?

Xia: If you mean IQ test, I have done some high-range tests

Strict Logic Spatial Examination 48, 31/48 (IQ 179.4 SD15)

Strict Logic Sequences Examination – Form II, 24/30 (IQ 177.8 SD15)

LSHR Light, (IQ 170 SD15)

Jacobsen: What ethical philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Xia: Ethics is a bottom line and the maximum value allowed by the values formed in the historical development of mankind.

I think it can arouse our natural love for virtue and enhance our hatred for evil; Through its fair and detailed comments, it helps to correct and clarify our natural feelings about the appropriateness of behavior, and by providing careful and thoughtful consideration, we can make more correct behavior than we might think when we lack such guidance. Such ethics is meaningful.

Ethics is easy to decorate with eloquence, so if possible, it can give new importance to the extremely trivial norms of responsibility.

Jacobsen: What social philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Xia: From Nietzsche’s criticism, he tried to expose the tricks of thousands of rights, and finally came to the conclusion that the essence of society is control.

In my opinion, Nietzsche inspired all kinds of critical theories that now dominate. He believes that criticism is the continuous deconstruction of society. When people deconstruct sociological, historical and literary criticism, they hold extremely clear views: control over women, control over former colonies, control over sexual minorities, hegemonic control over orthodox culture, hegemonic control over cultural industries… Such lists can be extended indefinitely.

I think the critical function of sociology is very meaningful. Although sociologists only provide reference opinions, they cannot change social phenomena. Because he is not the one who cuts the cake and controls the material resources.

Jacobsen: What political philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Xia: The knowledge of interest distribution is politics. The significance of political existence is to provide benefit distribution and solutions to benefit disputes between different classes, groups and individuals in human society. Man is an animal living in meaning. From a political point of view, meaning is given by the order of ought to be, but ought to also evolve. The driving force of evolution is the tension between ought to be and reality. When people ask questions, they actually encounter a mismatch between what they should expect and what they really are, which constitutes a problem, so they ask questions from this point of view. Political philosophy itself is to give a kind of natural expectation on political issues. It also constitutes an unconscious question meaning framework when people ask questions about political issues. When we ask questions, we will use a series of concepts in this question meaning framework.

In the construction of political ought to be, a good and feasible political philosophy not only gives a kind of expression of value, but also shows a kind of legitimate narration.

Jacobsen: What metaphysics makes some sense to you, even the most workable sense to you?

Xia: Truth, in form, is a kind of assertion; In terms of content, it is people’s conceptual reflection of the stable, inevitable and repeatable characteristics and connections in things and phenomena. Unlike the truth of science and common sense, metaphysics often studies absolute and unconditional truth. Metaphysics does not study concrete and sensible things, but abstract and overall things, and does not study objects that people can grasp and perceive. However, the scope of research is boundless and the content is unlimited, and people cannot observe and perceive objects at all, such as nature, material, spirit, etc.

I am a pragmatist. I think that due to human cognitive mode, metaphysics’ summary of the essential laws of the world cannot be verified, is transcendental, and usually has the characteristics of integrity. It has no clear derivation path and cannot be inherited. So how can we continue to study it?

But the research and inquiry of metaphysics is very necessary. I think metaphysics should determine a reliable research path and express its laws in clear language as much as possible

Jacobsen: What worldview-encompassing philosophical system makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Xia: I think it’s objective materialism.

Jacobsen: What provides meaning in life for you?

Xia: As an animal’s natural instinct, and the fetter with others.

Jacobsen: Is meaning externally derived, internally generated, both, or something else?

Xia: I think that only when things are interrelated can they reflect meaning. Human beings constantly understand and grasp the nature and laws of the object, and abstract meaning from it, which is both externally derived and internally generated.

Jacobsen: Do you believe in an afterlife? If so, why, and what form? If not, why not?

Xia: I have seen some reports about people recalling their memories of previous lives before. Some of them seem very real, but I can’t understand what carrier carries their memories. Is it the soul? These supernatural topics are of great interest to me, but beyond my understanding. I personally believe that there is an afterlife, but I can’t imagine the specific mechanism.

Jacobsen: What do you make of the mystery and transience of life?

Xia: Limited life seems to be a form of evolution, and reproduction and inheritance are more endless eternal life. The mystery of life lies in the moment when it was first born. We know that the essence of life is the orderly accumulation and release of energy, but the coincidence when it was first born from the inorganic world still remains mysterious to mankind. It’s like a script arranged by the universe.

Jacobsen: What is love to you?

Xia: Unconditional and absolute trust and dedication.

Footnotes

[1] Founder, CHIN.

[2] Individual Publication Date: July 8, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/xia-1; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Intercontinental High-I.Q. Forum 1: Tor Arne Jørgensen, Hindemburg Melão Jr., Tim Roberts, Rick Rosner, David Udbjørg, Garth Zietsman, and Tianxi Yu (余天曦) on the State of the High-I.Q.

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/07/01

Abstract

Tor Arne Jørgensen is a member of 50+ high-I.Q. societies. Hindemburg Melão Jr. founded the Sigma Society and the Sigma Test. Tim Roberts is the Founder/Administrator of Unsolved Problems. Rick Rosner is a member of the Mega Society and the Giga Society. David Udbjørg was the Founder of High IQ Society for Humanity. Garth Zietsman is a member of the Mega Society. Tianxi Yu (余天曦) is a member of God’s Power. They discuss: state of the high-I.Q.; other regions’ high-I.Q. communities; the issues in the high-I.Q. communities; the positive aspects of the high-I.Q. communities; and the newest projects and upcoming developments in the high-I.Q. communities.

Keywords: Africa, Asia, David Udbjørg, Europe, Garth Zietsman, Hindemburg Melão Jr., I.Q., Latin America, North America, Oceania, Rick Rosner, Tianxi Yu, Tim Roberts, Tor Arne Jørgensen.

Intercontinental High-I.Q. Forum 1: Tor Arne Jørgensen, Hindemburg Melão Jr., Tim Roberts, Rick Rosner, David Udbjørg, Garth Zietsman, and Tianxi Yu (余天曦) on the State of the High-I.Q.

*Please see the references, footnotes, and citations, after the interview, respectively.*

*After internal discussion by, and with, the group, two representatives for Africa this round.*

*Interviews completed throughout June, 2022.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: This first session will set a tone about the high-I.Q. communities around the world to some degree. Obviously, there are limitations in conducting a group discussion such as this. Regardless, it’s a start. A previous attempt focused, mainly, on North America and Europe with participants and observers in 2020:

This will depart from structure with an elimination of observers and strictly limit to participants, and consider an international focus with individuals consenting to representation. This does not mean carrying some proverbial regional flag by the individual. Yet, their experience within this region of the world does permit an experiential perspective richer than other participants, so legitimizes it to some modest level. Everyone is aware of the ground rules. Fundamentally, and most importantly, this exists as an experiment as an educational group discussion. So, let’s begin, what is the state of the high-I.Q. in your region of the world?

Tor Arne Jørgensen[1]* (Europe): Initially, my experience as to the present-day status within the high IQ community, is marked by a steady flow of positive mindfulness and forward-thinking. Also, to add, the creativeness whereas new innovative initiatives are significant protruded exponentially, through the willfulness of a unified and resolute commitment towards a more global awareness of what the high IQ community is all about. This done by way of informative directives addressed by and for the average percipient both inside and outside of the high IQ community.

Hindemburg Melão Jr.[2]* (Latin America): Low activity.

Tim Roberts[3]* (Oceania): Almost non-existent in any meaningful sense.  So, I shall pad with answering an alternative, primary-school, geography-based question instead.  What the hell is Oceania, the region I’m purported to represent?  Well, basically, it’s Australia, and New Zealand, and literally thousands of small islands in the Pacific.  It’s the largest, but second-least populated (after Antarctica), of all the continents.  That much may be widely known.  But it is generally not known that the islands include Hawaii.  So, Hawaii, while part of the US, is actually in Oceania.  Any high-IQ individuals in Hawaii would, I am sure, self-identify as being from the US, rather than from the continent of Oceania….thus making their identification rather problematical.

Rick Rosner[4]* (North America): Disclaimer is, everybody else has the good manners to submit written answers. You’re doing me the favour of letting me talk the answers to you and transcribing. So, my answers are going to sound a little stupider than everybody else’s.

So, for the vast majority of Americans, I.Q. is something that just doesn’t occupy even the tiniest sliver of concern or awareness. Nobody gives a crap. Although, there are some fringe people who are way into it. But you can see that the fall of aptitude testing, in the abandonment of the S.A.T., as a necessary component of your college application package. People don’t buy it. There are plenty of other ways to get the measure of a person besides giving them a test that is supposed to gauge their mental acuity.

David Udbjørg[5]* (Africa): It’s an honor to participate in these discussions, and I am especially honored that my long-time friend Melaõ, finds that my thoughts on Africa might be of value to the discussion.

I lived for almost eight years in South Africa. During this time, I only had little interaction with people from the local or international intelligence community, and hence, I don’t have anything to offer in this direction.

To have perspectives from all continents, and not, as is the case with most IQ societies, mostly from an American point of view, is indeed very appealing to me.

I was hoping that the questions would go in a different direction than towards the state of intelligence in Africa, and maybe more in line with what I was once fought for through the organization High IQ for Humanity.

High IQ for Humanity (HIQH) dates back to the early zero’s and was an attempt to have the High IQ World come together and create something besides just having high level conversations on bulletin boards. HIQH had two main issues they wanted to follow, the first, and to me the most important, was to create an organization that would be able to find and support highly intelligent children in developing countries, and the second topic was to inform about the dangers of brain drain from the developing countries. We formed the legal base for the organization, and got registered as an NGO in a handful of countries. All efforts were unpaid and on spare time.

Our daily lives took off in all directions, we didn’t have the time needed, and the efforts slowly fizzled out without new people taking over. The organization was closed down in 2005.

We didn’t manage to do any sort of impact; we didn’t manage to raise any financing. Part of the reason for not getting financing, was that many people found it directly offensive only to focus on the children with high intelligence, and not the rest. The best thing, which came out of it, was that we, who worked on the project, found a lot of good and long lasting highly intelligent friends, and Melaõ is certainly one of them. Melaõ, thanks for your support then, and now again.

I am extremely happy that Garth Zeitsman, is joining us, he will be so much better to answer the questions at hand, as he has been deeply embedded in the intelligence community in South Africa, and hence knows the current state, seen from this particular angle, but also from living in South Africa and being a statistician, he will be able to contribute in so many ways.

Even though I feel like the cat sneaking along the walls in the saloons of The League of Exceptional Gentlemen, the odd one out, I have a few comments and questions to add from the shadows. They will not relate to the posed questions, but are thought of, based on my extensive traveling and confrontations with all sorts of cultures, which people in general do not have the opportunity or the will to meet.

I have spent a lot of time talking with people living and working on garbage dumps in Africa, and I have visited quite a few indigenous tribes, both in Africa, but also in South East Asia.

I wonder what the level of intelligence is in these populations, those who live on the flipside of the modern World, those who often have to balance their traditions and the surrounding modern society. Is there a fair and doable way to measure their intelligence and other cognitive skills?

It is claimed that people from the African continent have a lesser average intelligence, than on any other continent. I find it hard to believe, could it be that the context of the testing is faulty? Could it be that the tests are not suitable for all cultures, even though some are Culture Fair? Some of you probably have an idea about how tests are performed in Africa, to reach these results? It seems that we are trying to fit everyone to the testing systems, and not design the tests for specific targets. A Cinderella approach, so to speak.

If we want to test the intelligence of people and be able to compare the results afterwards, the subjects must have a somewhat similar background, which includes daily mental challenges, life stability, nourishments etc.

It could be interesting to have a testing system, particularly authored for measuring and comparing intelligence, at low social levels, for instance, among street children in Dhaka, Bangladesh on the one side and street children in New Delhi, India on the other. Maybe the children from poor areas in the US and Brazil could also be part of the evaluation.

Measuring the intelligence of adults living off garbage in Sao Paulo in comparison with those working on the landfill sites in Pretoria, South Africa? Would also be interesting in fact, we would be able to come up with many similar pairings across social levels, cultures, nations, continents. If it is possible to make these kinds of testing pairs across the social spectrum, we might be able to get a more precise idea about the actual level of intelligence in each region.

It would be equally interesting to do testing among various kinds of indigenous tribes, who are still living their ancestral lifestyle; it could for instance be the SAN in Kalahari and the Dani tribe in the highland of West Papua or the Baduy tribe in West Java. Each of these cultures is struggling to maintain their cultures, and some of them are more successful than others.

I hope the above might bring some new thoughts to the discussions ahead.

Garth Zietsman[6]* (Africa): From its origins in the 70s Mensa SA increased membership up until mid 2000 and then declined.  The reasons are 2 fold.  Firstly since the end of Apartheid and the beginning of ANC government there has been an increase in emigration from SA and I have to say Mensa has been disproportionately affected.  The second reason has been a random change in the quality and popularity of leadership – which hopefully will change in the future.  Some local regions are vibrant while others are rapidly declining.  About a decade ago I was instrumental in starting a new local region – which unfortunately folded after a few years.  This was in a heavily Afrikaaner area and apparently Mensa is seen as more of an English thing.  Another new area – which has become the best local Mensa in SA – is in a very English biased area of the Cape Province.  Mensa SA has endeavored to find members among non-white groups but there has been a profound lack of interest from that quarter.  That said we do have non-white members – especially from the Asian (both Southern and Eastern) and mixed race communities.  Most of our black members are not local but immigrants from other African countries (mostly Zimbabwe.)

I once calculated that we were reaching only 1-2% of our potential membership at our peak so there is still plenty of room to grow.

Tianxi Yu (余天曦)[7],[8]* (Asia): The Asian region is mainly represented by the Chinese and Japanese communities, and I will elaborate on each of them in four parts: social environment, societies’ situation, tests’ style, and main people. Since I know China better, I prefer to elaborate in a way that China is the main focus and Japan is the supplement. a) Social environment: China is not tolerant of people with high IQ, although the whole world is, but China is more demanding. I have heard that Mensa members in some countries enjoy some benefits because of their Mensa status, but in China, presenting a high-IQ association may be exchanged for more tasks, even contempt. There is another interesting phenomenon, I have carefully observed the Japanese and international well-known associations, people with high IQ tend to be highly educated, I have done a statistic before, the most educated people in China tend to have an IQ of only 130~140, within the group of IQ 170 or above, there are few people with higher education; b) Societies’ situation: The development of the world’s intellectual communities can be described as a shift from a corporate system (Mensa) to an alliance system (WIN). The intellectual community in the Chinese region developed later, but followed this same route, from Shenghan to GFIS. But with the establishment of God’s power, it may enter the third stage – the elite system: the social elite who have both high IQ scores as the leader. Although the current intellectual community inside, high IQ people are often not less educated, but none of them use their ability as an attraction to make members want to become better. In a positive society, the leader has a leadership role to the group, and the kind of leadership used also determines the attributes of the society. With intellectual leadership, members will just indulge in doing IQ test, with achievement leadership, members will use their intellect to change the world and will become more useful to the world. This decision is based on the current situation of the Chinese society and the social situation. The Japanese association is led by Mensa Japan, and the local association Metiq also does a better job; c) Tests’ style: Chinese tests are mainly in the form of numerical tests, with a more innovative style and deeper ideas (such as Death Numbers and MIT), and the amount of spatial tests is relatively little, but there are also very innovative works (such as CAT and CAT2). Japanese tests feel more traditional to me, and the ideas and styles are closer to the traditional LS and SLSE, etc. However, I was impressed by a author called Takuma Oishi, which is very artistic, but he is reluctant to call it a “test” and intentionally avoids IQ estimation; d) Main people: The main people of the Chinese intellectual community are more difficult to define because of the unification and the establishment of a new hegemony have not yet been completed, and now should be me and Fengzhi Wu (IQ ranking: http://www.chinahighiq.com/col.jsp?id=105 ). The main person in Japan is Naoki Kouda (IQ ranking: https://kanji-love.wixsite.com/metiq/score-list).

Jacobsen: From the internal perspective of members of your region, how do other regions’ high-I.Q. communities look to you?

Jørgensen (Europe): I would want to think, that those continents beyond our own, talking about; Latin America, Oceania; North America, Africa, and Asia, do consider us as an active part as to the whole. Considering that the high IQ community by reference to Europe’s involvement is to be perceived as a collectively active unit, which in turn provides a lot of return, not only narrative to the European members per se, but also in a global member perspective.

I feel the need to mention some of the most honorable and famous names that contribute both by and for the high IQ communities and their respective countries that have their base of origin in Europe, people such as: Domagoj Kutle, Evangelos Katsioulis, Iakovos Koukas, the Chairman of Mensa International Bjørn Lilljeqvist, also to add Norway’s own brilliant and creative intellectuals like; Erik Hæreid, Glenn Alden, Arne Andre Gangvik, Olav Hoel Dørum and lastly but humble so, myself.

Here one could include many more contributors to the above list of names, which in total means that The High IQ community is flourishing more now today than ever before. Will also permit myself, by presenting my absolute admiration to all of you who are both mentioned here in this context and to you who are not mentioned here, by proclaiming a profound and heartfelt thank you for all your efforts and hard work within the high IQ society!!

Melão Jr. (Latin America): I believe that Mensa USA and Mensa UK are large, active and well-organized groups. The groups created by Iakovos and Evangelos, which try to unify several different societies, seem to me to be very promising ideas. The good organization and the large number of participants are two attributes that I consider positive and important.

Roberts (Oceania): Very much more populated, certainly.  I suspect, without any real evidence, that the great bulk of activity takes place in North America and Europe.  However, on Jason Betts’ World Genius Directory, thirteen high-IQ individuals (“geniuses”) are identifiable as being from Oceania: Tim Roberts, Peter Rodgers, Paul Moroz, Jason Betts, Zeljko Zahtila, Anthony Lawson, Anthony Xu, Wayne Cooper, Ivan Zelich, Stephen Murray, Kristi Beams, and Ian Ajzenszmidt, all from Australia, and Richard Sheen, from New Zealand.

Rosner (North America): I’d assume Europe is pretty much like America. Everyone is pretty much over it. Asia, especially East Asia, countries like Taiwan and South Korea still, I think, has a certain amount of testing mania. Where, people feel they have to get tested if they want to apply to American colleges. It is a high stakes thing. I assume it is fading somewhat as more and more U.S. colleges abandon aptitude testing. But I would think that it is holding on longer and longer in East Asian countries.

Udbjørg (Africa): [See first response.]

Zietsman (Africa): The only other high IQ regions we are aware of to any significant degree are the USA and UK.  We think the UK way of doing things is a bit disappointing, i.e., they tend to just have informal socials whereas in SA we have formal meetings with an expert speaker before we go off and socialize.  I understand the US is much more varied in how they conduct things.  Other regions – mostly the USA – have societies with above Mensa level qualifications.  There are probably less than 10 SA members of the ISPE or 999, Prometheus/Mega and only 1 (the late Philip Bateman – multiple world Creativity Champion) was particularly active in any of these.

Yu (Asia): I know very little about other regions.

Jacobsen: What are the issues in the high-I.Q. communities in your region of the world?

Jørgensen (Europe): I will hereby take use of this opportunity, to point out the consequent notation in the pressing sense for a strong brothering bond between all high IQ societies for an overall value base that has a common goal of improving of our common future endeavors.

What is meant by this, is referred to what Mensa International must do by breaking down many of its preconceived notions and ill views towards what the High IQ communities represents regarding its core values. I have on previous occasions, talked about a “fraternization” of all societies for the collective strengthening and the common good.

Mensa Norway and its International big brother Mensa International referenced to its recognized reputation, must in my view change, at least in some way, its now dogmatic attitudes towards the high IQ societies by a more general acceptance as previous mentioned, i.e., a more mutual beneficial understanding and acceptance per se. Today, the individual high IQ societies do not have their unifying imprint as regards of a general acceptance of each other.

This is for me what should be addressed in the future and drastically changed. Now in order for this to take place, the most recognized and overall respected society presidents outside of Mensa, should then assemble a comprehensive and jointly accepted system that will enable for the possibility of opening the door ajar. This done in the hope of mutual reconcilement of what Mensa International legislations bestows upon them, which in turn can enable a general acceptance through unification of all the high IQ societies.

A carefully select panel should be elected, that in turn can organize the development through careful and prudent planning for what may turn this idea into a reliable and thus possible implementation towards an overall unified community that again will serve back to its members interests on a global scale. When a desire for a national constitution by the new nation’s founding fathers is put into motion and whereby community nations prosperity is then established, then we may bring upon a general acceptance between Mensa International and the rest of high IQ community. What is of absolute certainty, is that if we all sit on our asses, then nothing will ever happen. By starting a global revolution, where we within the high IQ community can now produce a general acceptance externally to the general population on an equal footing with Mensa International then the mission is clear for me, let make this a reality by any means possible.

Melão Jr. (Latin America): I see that Mensa chapters in some countries interact harmoniously with other groups, promoting some joint activities. Unfortunately, Mensa Brasil is different. For example: in 2000 and 2001, friends from Finland, Belgium, USA published the Sigma Test in ComMensal, Mensalainen, Gift of Fire, Papyrus etc., while Mensa Brasil tried to hide the existence of Sigma Society and Sigma Test from its members. These boycott attempts are pernicious and petty, such conduct should bring shame on serious and reputable members of high IQ societies. I estimate that at that time perhaps 80% of Mensa Brasil members were unaware of the existence of other high-IQ societies (currently perhaps 50% still do not). A similar problem is also observed in the overwhelming majority of youtubers who claim to be “scientific dissemination” act exactly like this.

Another problem is that the focus of high-IQ societies, in my view, should be on bringing smart people together to solve scientific, technological, social, educational, environmental and other problems to make the world a better place. However, what I observe are vain people, with Dunning-Kruger syndrome , vying for who has the bigger ego. I am also vain and I have an inflated ego, but life is more than that and the potential of the smartest people should be better directed and better used. This isn’t a problem unique to my region, but I think it’s more serious in my region. Solving puzzles can be fun, but there are people dying in war, disease and starvation. I enjoy solving and creating puzzles, but I also try to work on relevant real-world problems. When David created the High IQ Society for Humanity, I thought it was an excellent project and absolutely necessary. In my interview, I commented on the plight of exceptionally gifted children who are not properly engaged in compatible activities in the US. This type of problem is much more frequent and more serious in my region. The absence of efficient mechanisms to identify and support talented children and young people is one of the most serious problems.

Another problem that is present not only in my region, but in the world, is the way “outsiders” view high-IQ societies and their members. Universities like Harvard or Cambridge are basically high IQ societies that receive financial support from the government and private companies, these institutions work for the common good, they are respected, admired, sponsored, joining them is a goal pursued by outsiders, who strive to get in. These universities bring together high-IQ people and use entrance exams that are strongly correlated with IQ tests. So they can be classified as high IQ societies or “hybrid high IQ societies”. In 2000, Kevin Langdon “declassified” Sigma Society as a “ pure high IQ Society” because some criteria for admission are not based solely on IQ tests, but also accept Chess ratings, medals in Mathematics Olympiads, etc. However Mega Society also used, for some time, the real-world problem solving criterion as a criterion for admission, Prometheus had discussions by the psychometric committee about accepting scores in the Think game Fast as criteria for admission and other results that are not exclusively IQ tests, and all societies that adopt SAT, GRE, ACT as criteria are accepting exams that are not, strictly speaking, IQ tests. In addition, several universities accept SAT, GRE, ACT, which makes the classification of an entity as a “high IQ society” something not as well defined as it was at the time when only Mensa existed and the only criterion was clinical tests. . In fact, the clinical tests themselves vary more from each other (weaker correlation) than SAT and GRE compared to some of the major clinical tests. Therefore, the classification “clinical trial” is more a matter of nomenclature than true statistical similarity. In this context, a well-trained neural network would objectively classify universities as high-IQ societies.

The crux of this is: why do people on the outside respect, value, and desire to enter universities, and virtually all potentially qualified people (or at least the overwhelming majority of them) are interested and striving to enter universities, while only a very small fraction of the people who qualify for high IQ societies are interested in participating? There are 160,000,000 people potentially eligible for Mensa, Sigma, High Potential Society, etc., yet only less than 150,000 are affiliated with one of these entities. I believe this is a fundamental issue that needs to be discussed and needs to be better understood, to try to eliminate the problems that make high-IQ societies not attractive, respected or valued by the general population. Correctly enumerating these problems in order of importance and planning efficient and feasible solutions seems to me to be one of the main objectives, if not the main one, of high-IQ societies for a short, medium and long term future. I don’t think the objective should be to “imitate” the universities, but to try to complement and harmonize with the objectives of the universities. In this sense, I see two important and low-cost preliminary paths:

  1. To perform the role of monitoring and evaluating the quality of professionals, entities, etc., issuing quality seals, rankings of competence, etc.
  2. Acting in the connection between highly qualified professionals and companies, and/or between talented entrepreneurs and investors.

Universities themselves also play these two roles, but not their main focus, and the criteria they use are not always the most appropriate. So there is a serious gap there that could and should be filled, and high-IQ societies may be equipped for that. As a result, high IQ societies can earn the respect and admiration of the community, gain greater visibility and attract the interest of notable members, large numbers of other members, investors/sponsors, the media, etc.

Roberts (Oceania): I’m not aware of any groups based in Oceania that are not international by nature, rather than being locally-focused.  Limited numbers and huge distances restrict any face-to-face meetings.  If there are any online meetings, I regret, I have not been invited (which could be for many reasons, of course – but seriously, I doubt their existence).

Rosner (North America): The issues for high-I.Q. people based on me and the people I met is how to get a fucking girlfriend. Movies of the ’80s about high school tended to follow the formula that there’s a sensitive, smart, nice guy who just wants to get a girlfriend, but the girl or girls that he wants are all hooked up with thuggish high school athletes. But by the end, somebody has realized the worth of the sensitive guy and became his girlfriend. I think this was the formula for Revenge of the Nerds.

There was another movie called Lucas that broke the formula. A girl, who had her jock boyfriend, began to value Lucas. This on the spectrum-ish awkward kid. She valued him. She wasn’t going to hook up with him. She was going to hook up with her jock boyfriend, who was going to prove himself by not being a dick to Lucas. The dynamic was the same. That’s how I felt in the ’70s and ’80s. Can’t somebody be my girlfriend? I have all this shit going for me. I am smart, sensitive, and funny. Eventually, I did the work to get a girlfriend. It involved a lot of stuff that wasn’t dependent on focusing on my I.Q.

I would say that in organizations like Mensa. There’s a certain incel factor and has been, and was, 50 years before the word incel came to exist, which is short for involuntary celibate. Guys who lean on their I.Q. as a point of pride, probably, lack the social cues and social skills to do really well with girls.

Udbjørg (Africa): [See first response.]

Zietsman (Africa): The biggest current issue is with the financial management and general administration of Mensa.  We used to be a lot more observant of best practice than we are now.

We also had many problems around testing.  Firstly international Mensa phased out the Ravens because of the Flynn Effect – although I did raise our cut-off to keep it at the 2% level – and then replaced it with a similar German test that had a woefully inadequate ceiling.  Secondly, one particular former National Chairman wants to do away with our verbal test on the grounds that it is biased, even though the non-verbal test is at least as biased.  Thirdly, this same person ended our practice of telling people their estimated IQ, or even keeping records of actual scores, claiming that lots of people don’t want to know their IQ and that knowledge of differences within Mensa are divisive.  I’m pretty sure that the “lots of people” is just her.  In other words I think we have a problem with decent tests and issues around testing (and that there are more attacks coming.)

We also had fights over an online discussion forum, e.g., over whether it is limited to paid up members and just how pro free speech it was. Basically politics.

Yu (Asia): a) a late start (Shenghan was founded in 2012.6), resulting in the absence of much infrastructure, and the association’s connection with its members staying only in online chat groups and certificates; b) an absence in the world intellectual community, without Mensa China, and probably not in the future, it is difficult for tests by Chinese authors to circulate internationally, despite the very high quality of their questions (Mahir Wu, Junlong Li, Fengzhi Wu, etc.); c) there is no standardized and stable system, no recognition in Chinese society, no outside support, and these high IQs cannot be recognized, supported and guaranteed through the community; d) the leading association (Shenghan, GFIS) does not play a role in developing the IQ community, and Shenghan is very dedicated in charging fees, and has been charging for 10 years, enriching millions of RMB. GFIS is relatively free of frivolous fees, and although it has made many attempts at positive publicity (self-promotion, TV programs), they have all failed, ultimately due to the lack of capacity of the president; e) the phenomenon of climbing in IQ scores is more serious in Asia, and it is a disaster area for cheating, where people will do anything to get high scores; f) the community has become less active, with fewer activities than before. There are barriers and divisions between different associations, which are not conducive to unification.

Comparatively speaking, the Japanese high IQ community is doing the best in the Asian region, in line with international standards (the World Intellectual Forum is very active and well known), with good organization and social support (https://www.hiqa.or.jp/), but there is a lack of good authors and tests. I think each country’s IQ community should give priority to promoting their own country’s excellent work, if they do not embrace their own country’s IQ community tests, then who else will?

Jacobsen: What are the positive aspects of the high-I.Q. communities in your region of the world?

Jørgensen (Europe): As mentioned earlier, Europe’s high IQ community is a highly active one, with innovative initiatives constantly being implemented by the intent for pure blissfulness for its communities’ members. Detailed laid out as follows, whereby; the steady creation of new and existing high range IQ-tests is being added to the various test sites, furthered by the establishment of new high IQ communities with a more various and exiting content for even the most delicate of pallets. Finally, the publication of community social engaging articles followed up by YouTube streams purposely laid out for the distributing of information of high intelligence assets for all its community members.

Melão Jr. (Latin America): Compared to other regions, I don’t think there is anything particularly positive about South America. We have some positives that are also typical of high IQ societies in all other regions, we have some problems that are perhaps also common in Africa (perhaps more severe there), and we have the language disadvantage compared to South Africa. , as only a small fraction of the best books and best scientific channels are available in Portuguese. Most people in all non -English- speaking countries in the world learn English as a second language, this has a growing need and maybe it will continue to be so, but maybe this paradigm will change in the coming decades, with the growth of China, India. Maybe this change won’t happen, because the English language has already established itself as a very strong tradition and maybe a few decades won’t change that, even if China surpasses the US or even if there was an economic collapse of the US, as happened with the USSR in 1991. And this is very unlikely over a 50-year time horizon, because the US has an important advantage that no other country has ever had: the dollar is used as an international reserve currency, and this gives the US excessive power in cases like the 2008 subprime crisis, in which the US should have “broken” as in the 1929 crisis and gone through 5 to 10 years of recovery, however they “patched” the problem simply by printing money. No other country in the world would have a similar resource available. If the USSR of 1991 had a similar power, even with all the management mistakes made, they wouldn’t have broken either. This immunity from punishment for serious errors can pose a very great danger, in addition to promoting unfair competition. Even if China manages to produce more, better and cheaper than the US, they would still need to overcome other barriers. So maybe the world language will still be English for more than a century, maybe several centuries. And countries where a large part of the population is not fluent in English, access to cutting-edge knowledge and good quality knowledge is severely hampered. The rapid evolution of automatic translation systems should greatly alleviate this problem in just 10 years, but the path these translation systems are taking fails at critical points for high-level translations, which require rigor and accuracy in detail. Translations are fine for typical communication if the person orders food over the Internet and doesn’t know the language, but in a complex debate or rigorous formal logical demonstration, automatic traction is contaminated with many imprecise details.

Another problem is abusive import fees, abusive taxes, etc. When taxes are high, but the money raised is reverted to the benefit of the population, although it can generate a feeling of injustice in some people who produced more than they received, there is a relief to know that other people who need it more are receiving support from the State to prevent them from lacking the minimum resources for a dignified and healthy life. The problem is when a significant fraction of those taxes are diverted into the pockets of politicians. This has been a common problem in South America and Africa. A car in Brazil costs ~3x more than the same car in the US, but the per capita income in Brazil is 1/7 of the per capita income in the US. So you pay ~20x more. When one considers that the Gini index in Brazil is around 50, this is particularly serious, because as income distribution is very unequal, only a small part of the population has access to basic technological resources. It is completely absurd, because in addition to the country not producing essential items with acceptable quality, it also makes importation difficult, leaving a large part of the population trapped in Prehistory, eventually reaching the Middle Ages. Only a small fraction of the population has access to contemporary technology, contemporary medical treatments, etc. This applies to many technology products. If you try to import by buying on eBay or Amazon, for example, an import tax of 60% + IMCS + COFINS + IPI + other taxes is applied, in cascade, which are applied to the value of the product + the value of shipping. In 2016 I paid 2.8 times the advertised price for a Celestron 102 GT telescope and in 2019 I paid 4.4 times for a Meade 10” LX 200 (due to higher freight by weight). In addition to not having good quality products produced in the region, there is a lot of bureaucracy and a lot of financial abuse to import products from other countries, including scientific and educational products.

In some Latin American countries, some of these problems do not exist, or they do exist, but they are not so serious. In Paraguay, import taxes are lower. In Uruguay, Chile, Argentina there is a more cultural environment than in Brazil. But on average in South America, the situation is similar or worse than in Brazil. These scientific, educational, economic and cultural problems contaminate all other sectors, and high-IQ societies are not immune. The waste of young talent that occurs in these regions is regrettable. In 2004, I had a dramatic conversation with Edmilson Motta, who was training Brazil’s representatives for the International Mathematical Olympiads, about a boy named Renato Francisco Lopes Mello, who was champion of the Brazilian Mathematical Olympiad. He lived in a very poor region, in a city called Lagoa do Carro, and we were trying to find a solution so that he could stay studying in São Paulo, but we couldn’t. He must have had an IQ of over 170, maybe over 180. Even without training and with access to little material, he had some impressive results. It would be important that there were mechanisms for people like him to receive support from the government so that he and his family could move to urban centers where they could have access to good training, under the guidance of trained educators. I believe that other regions are also affected by similar problems, but in the poorest and least developed countries this problem is more serious. In the USA, the Hollingworth Institute has an interesting theoretical proposal, but in practice it seems that the scope is not very large and the number of children who receive it is small. Perhaps China is the country that has been treating this issue with the greatest seriousness and competence in recent decades, and achieving compatible results.

I ended up using the question where I should talk about advantages to point out more disadvantages, but this is inevitable, as efforts to try to identify some advantage would produce biased results, distorting reality.

Roberts (Oceania): There are zero such communities, so far as I am aware…

Rosner (North America): My friend, Chris Cole, used ultra-high-I.Q. tests as a talent search to find smart people who may have been overlooked. I was one of those people. He helped me along. He has helped other people along to successful lives that they may not have otherwise had. That seems like a reasonable use of I.Q. But we’re probably kind of past that window of just taking an I.Q. test and somebody discovering you.

Although, I think we’re entering a similar window given that the internet and your devices and the world of machine learning is increasingly able to build a profile of you based on the droppings you leave via your activities and social media postings. I would expect some people to get recruited based on their social media presence or their presence across not just social media, but use of other apps and stuff.

I know of several people who got hired to write for late night comedy shows and T.V. comedies based on their tweets. When God shuts the I.Q. window, she opens up the post a lot of shit window, and, maybe, somebody will notice.

Udbjørg (Africa): [See first response.]

Zietsman (Africa): Just having a convenient way of meeting, talking to, and socializing with, other high IQ people is a major plus.  The formal meeting with speaker aspect of Mensa SA is also a positive in my view.  It keeps us abreast of things and also helps market Mensa.

Yu (Asia): a) What makes me happier about the Chinese community is the high level of support for domestic authors, and these authors live up to expectations, and are among the international leaders in terms of question quality, scale and data, especially in numerical tests, which I have not yet seen any country’s authors to match; b) The youth of the Asian intellectual community is also an advantage compared to the European and American intellectual communities. The average age of the members of the European and American communities is generally older, which is related to their earlier development, while the youthfulness of the members of the Asian community also provides more possibilities for the intellectual community; c) the quality of tests in the Asian intellectual community is generally high, I have previously analyzed well-known tests, such as SLSE, Ivan’s, there are more loopholes in their tests, and in the past well-known authors, such as Coojimans, Betts, these authors with high recognition, the items are also more subjective, tending to screen for high IQs that meet their own criteria, rather than objectively screening for high IQs in particula. But in today’s Asian community, Japan and China both have what I consider to be very talented authors whose items are not only rigorous, but also have their own ideas and creativity, which is very rare. The future also needs more deep thinking tests as the main recognition criteria, these tests mainly win in the depth of thinking, not by piling up logic to increase the difficulty; d) Asian community members have a stronger sense of belonging, allowing more lonely people to come together.

Jacobsen: What are the newest projects and upcoming developments in the high-I.Q. communities in your region of the world?

Jørgensen (Europe): I will make the following statement by a fervent hope; that a continuation of these interviews will be extended further with reference to me and you (Scott Jacobsen), in the same format as to the previous individual/group interviews. Furthermore, I will try to expand my promotional initiatives by a more hands-on interactive interview setting and hopefully with your help, establish these interviews into a book format someday soon, fingers crossed. What I also feel obligated to add, is as my previous stated desire proclaimed, the dire need for a unified consolidation between general the high IQ community and Mensa International community.

Melão Jr. (Latin America): I recently founded the Immortal Society, a group that aims to bring together intellectual exponents interested in solving the problem of death. https://www.sigmasociety.net/homeimmortal.

Roberts (Oceania): None that I am aware of.  It may appear from my answers that I am totally ignorant of any happenings in Oceania, or that they are non-existent.  Both of these alternatives are possible, of course.

Rosner (North America): I don’t know. I would assume not much. I would assume some societies like Mensa are scrambling to stay relevant. I haven’t read of any projects. Every once in a while, you’ll read about the youngest person to ever qualify for Mensa, which is a stab at getting some PR having found a 3-year-old who can test well. I’m not aware of any big push. There is the push by Mega, the Mega Society, to come up with a test that could measure up to the Mega level and wouldn’t be a fucking ordeal to take because the original Mega Test. I spent 100-110 hours on it. That’s a bad recruitment tool because nobody is going to spend that much time.

There is a push within Mega to come up with a test that takes less time and also can’t be cheated on because it gives each person taking the test a different set of problems. The problems are similar in principle, but they have variables messed around with. So, knowing the answer to one version of a test problem won’t necessarily help you figure out the answer to your version of the problem, the people working on this have been working on this for more than a decade with some results.

But I don’t know if they will have the widespread exposure that the Mega Test got when it was published in Omni Magazine and more than 4,000 people took the test via Omni.

Udbjørg (Africa): [See first response.]

Zietsman (Africa): I can’t really answer this now because I have been relatively uninvolved for a number of years.  I hope there are some good plans afoot but I rather suspect that we can expect further negative moves from the current leadership.

None that I am aware of.  It may appear from my answers that I am totally ignorant of any happenings in Oceania, or that they are non-existent.  Both of these alternatives are possible, of course.

Yu (Asia): The Chinese intellectual community may lead to a big reform, God’s power (GSP) will welcome Chen-Ning Yang’s joining in 6.20, this step is the first step of the Chinese intellectual community to elite system, later there will be more people with high social influence to join GSP, we will make the Chinese intellectual community and society highly connected, for example, we intend to use the name of GSP to publish papers in international journals, etc., so that GSP can become an elite group, leading high IQ people to give full play to their talents, and more to promote social development. For example, we intend to publish papers in international journals under the name of GSP and so on, so that GSP can become an elite group, leading people with high IQ to give full play to their talents and promote social development more.

Footnotes

[1] Tor Arne Jørgensen is a member of 50+ high IQ societies, including World Genius Directory, NOUS High IQ Society, 6N High IQ Society just to name a few. Tor Arne was also in 2019, nominated for the World Genius Directory 2019 Genius of the Year – Europe. He is also the designer of the high range test site; www.toriqtests.com.

[2] Hindemburg Melão Jr. is the author of solutions to scientific and mathematical problems that have remained unsolved for decades or centuries, including improvements on works by 5 Nobel laureates, holder of a world record in longest announced checkmate in blindfold simultaneous chess games, registered in the Guinness Book 1998, author of the Sigma Test Extended and founder of some high IQ societies.

[3] Tim Roberts self-describes in “A Brief and Almost True Biography” as follows: I was definitely born lower-middle class.  Britain was (and probably still is) so stratified that one’s status could be easily classified.  You were only working class if you lived in Scotland or Wales, or in the north of England, or had a really physical job like dustbin-man.  You were only middle class if you lived in the south, had a decent-sized house, probably with a mortgage, and at work you had to use your brain, at least a little. My mother was at the upper end of lower-middle class, my father at the lower. After suffering through the first twenty years of my life because of various deleterious genetically-acquired traits, which resulted in my being very small and very sickly, and a regular visitor to hospitals, I became almost normal in my 20s, and found work in the computer industry.  I was never very good, but demand in those days was so high for anyone who knew what a computer was that I turned freelance, specializing in large IBM mainframe operating systems, and could often choose from a range of job opportunities. As far away as possible sounded good, so I went to Australia, where I met my wife, and have lived all the latter half of my life. Being inherently lazy, I discovered academia, and spent 30 years as a lecturer, at three different universities.  Whether I actually managed to teach anyone anything is a matter of some debate.  The maxim “publish or perish” ruled, so I spent an inordinate amount of time writing crap papers on online education, which required almost no effort. My thoughts, however, were always centred on such pretentious topics as quantum theory and consciousness and the nature of reality.  These remain my over-riding interest today, some five years after retirement. I have a reliance on steroids and Shiraz, and possess an IQ the size of a small planet, because I am quite good at solving puzzles of no importance, but I have no useful real-world skills whatsoever.  I used to know a few things, but I have forgotten most of them.”

[4] Rick G. Rosner, according to some semi-reputable sources gathered in a listing here,  may have among America’s, North America’s, and the world’s highest measured IQs at or above 190 (S.D. 15)/196 (S.D. 16) based on several high range test performances created by Christopher HardingJason BettsPaul Cooijmans, and Ronald Hoeflin. He earned 12 years of college credit in less than a year and graduated with the equivalent of 8 majors. He has received 8 Writers Guild Awards and Emmy nominations, and was titled 2013 North American Genius of the Year by The World Genius Directory with the main “Genius” listing here. He has written for Remote ControlCrank YankersThe Man ShowThe EmmysThe Grammys, and Jimmy Kimmel Live!. He worked as a bouncer, a nude art model, a roller-skating waiter, and a stripper. In a television commercialDomino’s Pizza named him the “World’s Smartest Man.” The commercial was taken off the air after Subway sandwiches issued a cease-and-desist. He was named “Best Bouncer” in the Denver Area, Colorado, by Westwood Magazine. Rosner spent much of the late Disco Era as an undercover high school student. In addition, he spent 25 years as a bar bouncer and American fake ID-catcher, and 25+ years as a stripper, and nearly 30 years as a writer for more than 2,500 hours of network television. Errol Morris featured Rosner in the interview series entitled First Person, where some of this history was covered by Morris. He came in second, or lost, on Jeopardy!, sued Who Wants to Be a Millionaire? over a flawed question and lost the lawsuit. He won one game and lost one game on Are You Smarter Than a Drunk Person? (He was drunk). Finally, he spent 37+ years working on a time-invariant variation of the Big Bang Theory. Currently, Rosner sits tweeting in a bathrobe (winter) or a towel (summer). He lives in Los AngelesCalifornia with his wife, dog, and goldfish. He and his wife have a daughter. You can send him money or questions at LanceVersusRick@Gmail.Com, or a direct message via Twitter, or find him on LinkedIn, or see him on YouTube.

[5] David Udbjørg, self-described as follows, “Danish/American, Norwegian in my childhood. Married, 4 kids, and a similar amount of grandkids. Master in Architecture from The Royal Academy of Fine Arts in Copenhagen. Lived in seven countries, worked in 30+ and traveled, what equals 36 times around the globe. Fairly OK with Scandinavian languages, English, German and French, other languages less so. Worked, with architecture, sustainability, energy efficiency, 3D visualizations and auto destructible syringes, competition design and lots of other things. Currently, working as an Architect at the Danish Ministry of Foreign Affairs, taking good care of the Danish embassies around the World. Made a few inventions; a foot operated pointing device and an auto destructible syringe (none of them went into productions). I have stared many different projects, where the most important ones are co-instigator of ‘Architects Without Borders’, still in action, Instigator of a public contemporary art gallery, which has been running for 40 + years and ‘High IQ for Humanity’ (HIQH), which is now defunct. As an artist, I have exhibited in several countries, but mostly in Denmark. I make paintings, both portraits and contemporary. Stained glass, bronze, furniture’s, deconstructions and mixed medias, as well. I have written a couple of books and composed a few pieces of music. I am board member, at the Art club of the Danish Ministry of Foreign affairs, and I like to consider myself a skilled photographer and videographer. I have sold my work to ‘Un Explained’ and ‘Ancient Aliens’ and I have been features on CNN ‘Inside Africa’ with my visits to garbage dumps in Africa. As an adventurer, I am mostly focusing on indigenous tribes, garbage dumps, ship breaking places, funerals, medicine men and oracles, but I also like to visit schools and kindergartens in developing countries, occasionally I visit volcanos and caves as well.  I’m one of the very few Scandinavian members of ‘Los Angeles Adventurers Club’.”

[6] Garth Zietsman is a member of the Mega Society with experience in Africa, particularly South Africa.

[7] Tianxi Yu (余天曦) is a Member of God’s Power, CatholIQ, Chinese Genius Directory, EsoterIQ Society, Nano Society, and World Genius Directory.

[8] Individual Publication Date: July 1, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/iq-forum-1; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Schooling the Young 2: Tor Arne Jorgensen on Non-Intellectual Qualities

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/07/01

Abstract

Tor Arne Jørgensen is a member of 50+ high IQ societies, including World Genius Directory, NOUS High IQ Society, 6N High IQ Society just to name a few. Tor Arne was also in 2019, nominated for the World Genius Directory 2019 Genius of the Year – Europe. He is also the designer of the high range test site; www.toriqtests.com. He discusses: education; a new cohort of students; build a rapport; identifying the more astute students; teaching; teachers get good or stay bad at teaching young students; the most difficult; encourage good behaviour; and deal with highly difficult students.

Keywords: character, education, normalization, schooling, the young, Tor Arne Jorgensen.

Schooling the Young 2: Tor Arne Jorgensen on Non-Intellectual Qualities

*Please see the references, footnotes, and citations, after the interview, respectively.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Non-intellectual aptitudes may serve the generic student throughout the lifespan more than any other form of education. Intellectual gifts are one aspect. There are numerous proposals for them. However, as with any teacher, you’ll work with a wide variety of students. Boundaries, compassion, friendship, forgiveness, self-efficacy, even learning to grieve, will serve them in life more and fit under the heading “Education” more than anything else. An education directed toward character rather than intellect: Character counts. A simple act of forgiving wrongs against you, setting boundaries from those who wronged you, and moving forward with self-efficacy, will provide a richer sense of an actualized life than knowing the names and locations of all the capitals and cities in the world, which will, more often than not, be forgotten and can be looked up. Similarly, the ability properly to know grief: Death. An inevitability of life’s end, of those around oneself and of oneself. Grief will come; knowledge of how to grieve loss can help in a similar manner to forgiveness, boundaries, and moving forward. Or humour, of one’s idiocy and of others’, too, whether in misunderstandings and no second chances for clarification, or the everyday stuff and keeping oneself together, or, unfortunately, the occasional intellectual and life catastrophe, they happen. Humour contextualizes. We’ve all experienced these things. I’m laughing at myself building an IKEA bookshelf today, for example. How do you educate the character of students?

Tor Arne Jorgensen: Building one’s character must then be statute to be the parent’s primary fundamental function, in which the functional aesthetically charismatic of one’s characters are being transferred as for the premises through equalization. The schools of today have sad but true, become the subject of a dualistic transformation, whereby both prosocial behavior change, and now academic enrichment go hand in hand. What can then be said about the handling of the fostering a character, is in the awareness of the self. This proof can only be triggered in the state it allows itself to exist.

The basis for this is formulated of: Who am I, who do I want to appear as, what do I want in life, who are my friends, and am I real? When these formulations are being answered and accepted as absolute values, then the true character of the self is visualized. Not an easy task for any teacher alone, but made possible with the collaboration with primary institutions, this is where the real work is done, only by the extension of the primary institutions.

Jacobsen: Do you humanize yourself in the process of education? Bring yourself to the metaphorical ground, not become artificially relatable – so corny, but to be real with students – but not gritty.

Jorgensen: Being viewed upon as genuine through one’s actions, is seen as an absolute core value for me in the pursuit for mutual understanding and respect. False facades whipped up by false idols are to be regarded with pure contempt, as they are only destructive cowering’s of both social / professional bearing fundamentals.

Jacobsen: What values seem most pertinent to the life of a young person in the classroom with them?

Jorgensen: Friendship, affirming old ones and connecting new ones.

Jacobsen: Some students can be excluded for developmental delays or particular disabilities. How do you work within this context with students and the student with delays or disabilities? Obviously, it’s more sensitive and a more effortful process.

Jorgensen: The challenges that will then follow these types of students, will then be first associated with a test regime, which then again decides whether or not to introduce various measures regarding the need for special education, whereby specific teaching arrangements are adapted to their level of learning. There are 2 ways this is done mainly. Either these students in the classroom are on an equal footing with the other normally functioning students, or group compositions with equal students are used in group rooms with a special educator.

When using a normal class function, an individual training plan is prepared for the student or students that this may apply to, and then becomes the leading factor for what type of teaching aids that will then be used in accordance with the original facilitated plan and have the approval of the school’s special education coordinator. This is a standard procedure, where after a review of each completed term. New assessments are being reevaluated as to customize a new training material, and lastly at the last term is over a final report is written to see if the plan that was originally set up worked as intended or not, which is then brought with further in the teaching process for the student or students to whom this may then apply.

Jacobsen: Different students will have different life difficulties, potentially, as with developmental delays and disabilities. Do you find yourself emphasizing some values more than others with these students and other students in relation with them (and vice versa)?

Jorgensen: No will not say that the way for me is to normalize as far as possible, their schooling with special students in mind, and the rest of the students. A most normal, is clearly preferable for all parties, it avoids unwanted visibility and possibility for stigma.

Footnotes

[1] Tor Arne Jørgensen is a member of 50+ high IQ societies.

[2] Individual Publication Date: July 1, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/teaching-2; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Bob Williams on Schizotypy, Creativity, Genius, Johnson and Bouchard, PFIT and BA10, Wai, Benbow, Lubinsky, Rex Jung, and Arthur Jensen: Retired Nuclear Physicist (5)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/07/01

Abstract

Bob Williams is a Member of the Triple Nine Society, Mensa International, and the International Society for Philosophical Enquiry. He discusses: schizotypal traits; schizotypal personality traits and temperament; the prominent tests of creativity; impulsively nonconformist and prone to divergent thought; measuring creativity; creativity over the lifespan; BigC (true genius); Johnson and Bouchard; negative correlation between very high levels of creativity and very high levels of intelligence in brain efficiency; PFIT; Wai, Lubinsky, and Benbow; Rex Jung; Arthur Jensen; original creative insights into a unified work; developmental cascade effects; drugs; true genius tend to isolation; true genius tend towards no progeny; high intelligence or high creativity; cold hard truths; countries leaders.

Keywords: Arthur Jensen, Benbow, Bob Williams, Bouchard, creativity, genius, intelligence, I.Q., Johnson, Lubinski, PFIT, Rex Jung, schizotypy, Wai.

Conversation with Bob Williams on Schizotypy, Creativity, Genius, Johnson and Bouchard, PFIT and BA10, Wai, Benbow, Lubinsky, Rex Jung, and Arthur Jensen: Retired Nuclear Physicist (5)

*Please see the references, footnotes, and citations, after the interview, respectively.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: With schizotypal traits and temperament as an association with creativity, is it possible to parse schizotypal traits into the individual traits to associate with some common, accepted definitions of creativity?

Bob Williams[1],[2]*: Schizotypy is associated with verbal and artistic creativity. There are presumably some who have, nonetheless, shown a more technical form of creativity. John Nash, comes to mind. The form of schizophrenia known as Introvertive Anhedonia is negatively associated with creativity. The commonly found association between schizotypy and creativity is that there is a reduced latent inhibition.

Measuring and predicting outcomes relating to creativity is more difficult than doing those things relative to intelligence, because intelligence is a very general trait that is well understood structurally (as in a hierarchical factor analysis). The thing that schizophrenia and intelligence have in common is that they are both additive polygenic traits and, therefore, can be measured via polygenic scores. The best material I have seen on the genetics of traits is Robert Plomin Blueprint: How DNA Makes Us Who We Are, Penguin Books Ltd., 2018. Plomin mentioned that today schizophrenia, like autism, is treated as a spectrum. In this book, Plomin commented: “In several diverse populations the researchers found that people with high polygenic scores for schizophrenia were more likely to be in creative professions.”

It is my understanding that the ratio of highly creative people with schizophrenia to noncreative people with schizophrenia is small. Even so there is a clear link.

Jacobsen: Following from the previous question, if we do so, what do particular parsed aspects of schizotypal personality traits and temperament tell us about their association or correlation with creativity?

Williams: As I mentioned in the first answer, most important link is a lowered inhibitory function. This particular trait is discussed repeatedly in The Cambridge Handbook of the Neuroscience of Creativity (2018) Rex E. Jung (Editor), Oshin Vartanian (Editor). But, if you ask a psychologist about the traits associated with schizophrenia, he will probably list other behaviors, such as hallucinations, disorganized thinking, extremely disorganized or abnormal motor behavior, thought and movement disorders, etc.

This is a related, side topic: In the book referenced above, Kyaga mentioned that people majoring in technical fields, more often than others, had siblings with autism. This suggests a path from a spectrum behavior that involves shared genes that lead to elevated ability in those who share the genes, but where the spectrum disorder prevents it from showing up in the affected (autistic) person. There may be a similar finding relative to creativity and schizophrenia. In fact there may be good studies of such a relationship, but I have either not seen them or have forgotten the source.

I think the best way to describe the relationships between schizophrenia and creativity is to note that among true geniuses, elevated levels of schizophrenia are helpful or even essential. But if one observes the presence of schizophrenia in an individual, there is not the same high probability (the presence of high creativity). To me, the zones between the elevated levels of psychosis and neurosis (per Hans Eysenck) and elevated standing on the schizophrenia spectrum seem to be either overlapping or identical.

Jacobsen: Do any of the prominent tests of creativity truly measure creativity? Are these reliable and valid, or simply leaving more questions unanswered?

Williams: The answer to that question strikes me as depending on the perspective of the observer. In the most basic sense, the tests of creativity consist of tests of remote association, fluency, divergent thinking, etc., which are not direct measures of creativity. From the perspective of a researcher who wants a wide range of abilities shown (low to high ability), the Torrance Tests of Creative Thinking (and similar tests) produces this kind of measurement. This is where the issue of artistic creativity and scientific creativity can be seen. A test, such as the TTCT will produce similar results for people in science or in arts, so the researcher may be quite happy with the results as measuring “creativity,” even when the kinds of creativity are very different.

Although some researchers argue that intelligence is a factor in creativity, the more important factor is personality, as measured by the Big Five. The most important of these five is Openness to experience and Conscientiousness (a negative indicator).

For the record, a few of the other tests that are used for measuring creativity:

Divergent Thinking (a general category)

Remote Associations Test (a general category)

Creative Personality Scale

Creative Achievement Questionnaire (CAQ; a selfreport)

Jacobsen: If someone is impulsively nonconformist and prone to divergent thought patterns, do these necessarily imply a higher creativity?

Williams: I think the answer is “not.” As with other behavioral relationships, there is a statistically higher probability of the cooccurrence of nonconformity and creativity, but I doubt that this is a necessary pair. Sometimes we see the unusual behavior and tend to generalize it, while we simultaneously ignore normal behavior paired with creativity (or another variable). When ability increases to the point of astonishing achievement (creativity), I expect that the odds of seeing very unusual behaviors increases to the point that there is at least some present. It is difficult to reach a confident conclusion about such trait correlations without proper statistical studies to show how strong an effect is and how it may vary between groups and life conditions. Most educated people are familiar with a lot of the names of artistic and scientific geniuses, but may not know the details of their lives.

Another aspect of behaviors is that, if we look closely at individuals we would consider to be not extreme, everyday folks, we would still find lots of unusual behaviors, including some that might happen more often among highly creative people. My take on Plomin’s comments about spectrums of traits is that these apply to many of the things we observe in both exceptional and “normal” people.

Jacobsen: If experts are measuring creativity or proposing measurements for creativity within the human population, technically, these could be scaled for comparison, not necessarily a Gaussian curve or something like this, but this seems like a natural consequence. Some people score higher on a creativity measurement than others, whether quantitative or qualitative, so would count as more creative. Yet, the question arises about lifespan effects. In that, some aspects of creativity may decline over time, remain stagnant, or may increase over time. In principle, is ranking creativity a prospect before us?

Williams: Any test that has some validity in measuring creativity will produce a distribution. The exact shape of the distribution may vary as a function of how the test is designed and the population to which it is applied. I have never seen a creativity distribution curve, such as the ones that are commonly shown in intelligence literature. If we think about the likely output of a biographical list of honors received for creative work, I would expect that it would show a near zero value for most people and only show positive results for people who are obviously creative. In the sense that we can see creativity, it mirrors intelligence in the sense that it is not hard to identify someone who is shockingly brilliant or who is obviously retarded. Tests are not needed and even middle level effects (above or below average) are obvious enough that our observations are unlikely to vary much from measurements. In the case of creativity, I think someone can easily see brilliant composition and see that most people show much less ability.

Jacobsen: What happens to creativity over the lifespan?

Williams: Age effects presumably show up in various categories of creativity. It certainly happens in scientific creativity. As for artistic creativity, I am less confident that it is a strong effect. It is easy enough to recall conductors who continued to perform with little decline in quality, up to near the end of their lives. I can think of some classical music performers who did much the same. The things that the brain has to do to create art are certainly different than the things it has to do to write and solve equations that describe the physical universe. We see that Nobel Prizes (in science) are overwhelmingly given for work that was done early in life. Einstein’s Miracle Year (1905) included four profound papers that changed physics; he was 26 years old.

Jacobsen: Who does Piffer count as BigC (true genius)? What are his examples of ProC via professions and creative people in them?

Williams: I recall a mention of a few true geniuses in a paper that was probably Piffer, but I don’t know if I still have it or not. The ProC category includes both the arts and the sciences. Most people are more familiar with the true geniuses in the arts and sciences. ProC, as I understand his meaning, is a category that is not about genius, but about people who are able to have successful careers that are based on their high levels of creativity. The names of these people will be known to many of their career peers, but not to the general public. Those who are widely known are usually those who were closely covered by the news media (various reasons, often unrelated to their actual creative output).

Jacobsen: Akin to Johnson and Bouchard’s work showing the top 5 g loadings, does a similar factorization exist for creativity within measurements of creativity? This is a helpful representation of an advancement on the research of g, as 1) a factor in life and 2) a consistently measurable phenomenon in global information processing within the remit of the human nervous system.

Williams: As we discussed in an earlier set, Piffer has argued that a general factor is unlikely. Researchers have done principal components analysis and factor analysis relating to creativity, but I have not seen claims that they have found and shown expert agreement that there is a general factor. These have clusters of related traits that might define a factor that is common to the clustered components. Certainly, there is little mention of a general factor in the creativity literature. There is more support for a general factor of personality (Rushton was writing about this near the end of his life.), but papers on personality are not focused on a general factor of personality in the same way as is common in intelligence research.

Intelligence is powerfully related to quality of life and achievement. At low IQ, life outcomes can be harsh, but this doesn’t happen for low creativity. A person with very little creative ability may still have a happy and productive life, unless that lack of creativity is the direct result of low intelligence. Creativity matters when it is high enough to sustain a livelihood or to produce an eminent artist, engineer, or scientist (as we previously discussed). Below the Pro-C level creativity is much less important at the individual level.

Relating to Johnson and Bouchard’s work, I learned something from Wendy Johnson that I had previously overlooked. The loading of a given factor is dependent on the structure of the test from which it was extracted. For example, if there are more or fewer test items that relate to a given broad ability, that broad ability will show a higher or lower g loading. This explains some of the differences that are reported for the g loadings of various factors. In their work, Johnson and Bouchard used the largest battery of tests that has ever been reported and extracted a structure of intelligence that is probably the most true to nature that exists. The reason I was discussing this with Wendy was that I was curious about the high g loading of the Pedigrees test. Bouchard mentioned the test multiple times as the highest g loading of any test. I later discussed it with him and learned how the test works and that it dates back to the relatively early days of intelligence test development.

Jacobsen: Could there be a negative correlation between very high levels of creativity and very high levels of intelligence in brain efficiency? Where, a highly intelligent brain uses less energy than a less intelligent one to come to a more parsimonious answer to a problem. Whereas, a highly creative person may require more resources burned in their brain to construct more elaborate novel constructs. If so, this would imply a disjunction between high intelligence and high creativity. Unless, a highly intelligent brain with high creativity, somehow, does require less energy than a highly intelligent and less creative person, but still would need less to get a creative result than an unintelligent person with high creativity.

Williams: That’s an interesting thought. I don’t think there are any studies of glucose metabolism as a function of creative output. I think the problem lies in the nature of the end product. In the case of intelligence, Haier’s work shows that more efficient brains are more intelligent. This initial hypothesis has turned out to be a general condition in which various measures of brain efficiency show that high efficiency (in networks, tissue integrity, etc.) is an indication of high intelligence. These observations necessarily apply to narrow tests, such as doing a puzzle, and not to complex end results, such as designing a rocket engine or writing artificial intelligence software. Such tasks happen over long time periods. But we can relate the lab experiment (efficiency measurement) to the very long task because the task is strongly related to a latent trait (g). Without efficiency measurements (they may exist, but I haven’t seen them) for creativity, we have the relationship between established creative ability and multiple end products, but the efficiency part is missing. A number of relatively recent papers have argued that there is a connection between intelligence and creativity, which may provide an indirect link to brain efficiency.

My impression is that some creative people work very fast and some plod along with lots of revisions, but both manage to reach finished works that meet the face value of high level creativity. I once watched a film of Picasso painting and was amazed at the speed with which he created a painting, but he would then overpaint it multiple times (also quickly). We occasionally read about symphonies and novels that were produced over long spans of time and those (Mozart) that were done quickly. It is not obvious that brain efficiency is a factor in these, but it may account for such differences. Curiously, Jensen described how Beethoven started the composition of a symphony from a simple structure, then went over it repeatedly, making changes that increased its complexity and appeal, until the final version was achieved. This is similar to what Picasso was doing, except that Picasso did not add complexity but simply changed the impact of the painting repeatedly, until he had a result that suited his intent.

The efficiency hypothesis may, in fact, be reversed for creative output. It is the inefficient brain that is likely to bring in more remote associations because of low tissue integrity, less efficient networks, and low inhibition. These are probably going to cause increased glucose uptake rates in the brain.

Jacobsen: With the PFIT network as important for intelligence and problem solving, could there be a generic partially diffuse network rather than a singular structure (a lobe, etc.) responsible for much of the conscious problem solving determined as intelligence or I.Q., where much of the rest of the brain is devoted to sensing, motor skills, and feeling? Something like a diffuse network functioning outward from BA10 for conscious discrimination and associational matrix problem solving making sense of the data fed through BA10 through a field of conscious thought.

Williams: Network study is a big thing now that researchers have tools to study white matter tracts (diffusion tensor imaging in particular). The network that I have seen mentioned repeatedly, in connection with creativity, is the default mode network. It clearly plays a role in creativity. Some studies have focused on the interplay between networks, suggesting rapid switching from one network to another, in much the same way as early computers used task switching when they did not have preemptive multitasking. My guess is that, with increasing study and improved imaging tools, there will be models based on networks, switching, and interplay. These presumably will also involve creative task execution. Given the central role of BA10 in intelligence, I would assume that it is also central to creative processing and performs the same integration function.

Jacobsen: How important are Wai, Lubinsky, and Benbow, currently, to the higher study of intelligence?

Williams: They have a near monopoly on the topic. Most intelligence research is focused on the middle of the IQ spectrum. Julian Stanley started the Study of Mathematically Precocious Youth when Camilla Benbow was working with him (probably a student). SMPY became a longitudinal study that had 5 cohort groups. Benbow inherited ownership of the ongoing study from him and it continues today as the most productive study of very bright individuals. It has been ongoing for about 50 years, so there are data for important life outcomes. One of the most significant findings of the study is that there is a large difference within the top 1% of intelligence, favoring increasing intelligence. Among the variables that increase with increasing intelligence are the number of doctorates, peer reviewed publications, STEM publications, STEM doctorates, income, and STEM tenure.

Jacobsen: How does Rex Jung see the different forms of creativity scientific and artistic emergent from a single source in creativity, so fundamentally the same?

Williams: When I asked him if he thought that artistic creativity and scientific creativity are the same, he said “yes.” I think this was based on the two things he used as primary markers: the alternative uses test and the Creative Achievement Questionnaire. With those two items, the difference (scientific/artistic) is presumably not evident.

Jacobsen: How did Arthur Jensen see intelligence as more integral to scientific creativity than artistic creativity, so, in a sense different from Jung, something more fundamental to scientific endeavours than artistic?

Williams: As I recall, Jensen believed that intelligence was not a significant factor in artistic creativity, but was probably a significant factor in scientific creativity. My perspective on this is that the depth of knowledge of a scientific discipline is strongly correlated with intelligence and that knowledge is an essential ingredient in manipulating scientific ideas. Creativity in science is often seen in the formation of an unlikely hypothesis, followed by the task of validating it from experiments and mathematical models. If we compare that to the creativity of an artist, we see that art demands idea generation that makes a subjective impression on the viewer. This is quite different from the scientific product that is supported by testing, replication, modeling, etc. In science, there is nothing subjective about getting something right; there is a subjective zing to seeing the brilliance of new insight.

Jacobsen: Based on your speculation, how would individual flashes of creativity integrated over time with non-creative activity provide a basis for comprehension of creativity regarding output? In this sense, intelligent integrative activity would be necessary, not for creativity but, for unifying the original creative insights into a unified work.

Williams: As a speculation, I would say “yes.” In any case, “intelligent integrative activity” would be necessary for combining the “multiple flashes of creativity.” This idea would be an interesting one for someone to pursue as a study. I doubt that it has been done and imagine that it would at least be possible, using an approach such as interviews, self-reports, etc.

Jacobsen: What about developmental cascade effects? Where, a singular large change in a brain network or structure in early life alters overall brain structure and processing through development into full maturity leading to a much more novel neurology compared to the general population. I would assume this happening in dysfunctional ways more than functional ways as a matter of the law of averages.

Williams: It certainly makes sense that this would turn out badly most of the time. One way that such developmental issues can be observed is via fluctuating anisotropy (FA). This is commonly used in biological sciences as an indicator of developmental instability. It is simply a measure of nonsymmetry, based on bones in the wrists, ankles, etc. The idea is to measure where there is little fat. More FA means lower IQ (and other issues). The correlation with IQ varies widely from about zero to 0.40. One reason for the range of correlations is that head size is a confound. There is a similar relationship between facial symmetry and IQ. Various studies have found that people can guess IQ from photographs of faces. And one study showed that childhood environmental factors are associated with SES. These generally support the notion of early developmental problems having longterm impact on the individual.

Jacobsen: Are there drugs, prescription or not, that, in fact, increase creativity for the duration of efficacy in the body?

Williams: Yes. One of the well known factors is alcohol. I even recall a study of creativity among people who were evaluated when they were drunk. In The Cambridge Handbook of the Neuroscience of Creativity there are discussions of particularly strong drinking problems among writers. This book also discusses clinical drugs that have some impact (positive and negative) on creativity. These generally fall into categories of dopaminergic drugs, sedatives, serotonin reuptake inhibitors, antidepressants, moodstabolizing drugs, and the often mentioned recreational drugs (remember the 60s). This category is an example of an inverted U distribution, where more of the drug is initially beneficial, but a point is reached when the impact of the drug (on creativity) declines because the individual becomes impaired.

Jacobsen: Why does true genius tend to isolation?

Williams: Various researchers have written about the personalities of true genius. These rare creative people typically suffer from nasty dispositions. Jensen: “In many creative geniuses, this potential for actual psychosis is usually buffered and held in check by certain other traits, such as a high degree of ego strength. That psychoticism is a constellation of characteristics that persons may show to varying degrees; such persons may be aggressive, cold, egocentric, impersonal, impulsive, antisocial, unempathic, toughminded, and creative. This is not a charming picture of genius, perhaps, but a reading of the biographies of some of the most famous geniuses attests to its veracity.” [Benbow, C. P., & Lubinski, D. J. (Eds.). (1996). Intellectual talent: Psychometric and social issues. Johns Hopkins University Press.]

Jacobsen: Why does true genius tend towards no progeny?

Williams: The personality traits of true geniuses (discussed above) do not bode well for a social life and may be at least part of the explanation for why they often do not marry. There is a well established negative correlation between IQ and fertility rate (measured relative to women) which has been argued in the literature as the cause of a slow but real decline in mean IQ in developed nations. In the case of geniuses, this is presumably a factor.

Jacobsen: If you could pick only one high intelligence or high creativity, which would you choose?

Williams: For me, the answer is simple: intelligence. The reason is simply that the baggage that accompanies high creativity is not appealing. In general, higher intelligence leads to mostly desirable life outcomes, while high creativity often does not.

Jacobsen: What are the cold hard truths known about intelligence research and about theoretical constructs proposed to explain intelligence now?

Williams: I love this question as it hits directly at the things that are widely not understood, even by bright, educated people.

Mother Nature did not create brains according to a PC project plan. Instead, she opted to make intelligence hugely important and did not compensate people who happen to fall at the low end of the spectrum. I think a good way to view intelligence is by a list of correlates. There is at least one positive correlate that does not imply a desirable outcome: myopia, correlated at about r = 0.20 to 0.25 (given by both Jensen and Storfer). It is not the result of “nearwork.” Jensen: “Children in classes for the intellectually gifted (IQ > 130), for example, show an incidence of myopia three to five times greater than the incidence among pupils in regular classes.” [from The g Factor]

Otherwise, positive correlations are beneficial, while negative correlations are not. The “cold hard truth” of this is that life is increasingly more favorable at higher and higher levels of intelligence and is increasingly more difficult at lower and lower levels. I made the list below a couple of years ago, to illustrate the unfair nature of the IQ spectrum:

positive (+) correlation with intelligence

income

longevity

general health

life satisfaction

body symmetry

vital capacity

grip strength

educational achievement (grades, years completed, difficulty of major)

SES (a product of intelligence, not a cause of it)

speed of mental functions, including response to a stimulus and sensitivity to a short stimulus

memory

learning rate

number of interests (held with competence)

job performance

brain efficiency (relative to glucose uptake rate)

sperm quality

negative (-) correlation with intelligence

smoking

HIV infection

crime

time incarcerated

school dropout

teen pregnancy

fertility rate

illegitimate births

unemployment

At the national level, mean national IQ correlates positively with per capita GDP, economic growth, economic freedom, rule of law, democratization, adult literacy, savings, national test scores on science and math, enrollment in higher education, life expectancy, and negatively with HIV infection, unemployment, violent crime, poverty, % agricultural economy, corruption, fertility rate, polygyny, and religiosity.

The correlates I listed range from moderate to small, but are important because small effects can coexist and are usually small because of the presence of large amounts of noise. When very large groups are considered, noise tends to cancel out, which is why national level comparisons typically have high correlations. An examination of the lists reveals that several factors relate to physical wellbeing. This is frequently discussed in the literature as relating to an overarching fitness factor that encompasses physical health, mental health, intelligence, and physical robustness.

These correlates are all the more cold and hard, when we consider that intelligence is determined at the moment of conception [Using DNA to predict intelligence; Sophie von Stumm, Robert Plomin; Intelligence 86 (2021) 101530.]; the environmental impacts are negative (lower intelligence); and the range of intelligence is huge. Group differences in mean IQ (or g) account for group differences the factors I listed for national outcomes.

Jacobsen: What countries leaders take these seriously without ideological commitments to distort them?

Williams: Some years ago, a friend loaned me a book about Indonesia. There was a fair amount of discussion in it about the highly diverse population and the realistic understanding of how intelligence was a factor that differed between the internal groups. I unfortunately cannot recall the title of the book and am not sure if it was discussing the time Sukarno was president. I think that was the case.

Otherwise China is very much aware of the importance of intelligence and in conducting intelligence research on a large scale. This huge effort is discussed in Haier, R. J. (2017). The Neuroscience of Intelligence, Cambridge University Press. Western nations have gone in the wokePC direction of denial and counter productive policies. I don’t see a path towards rational, factual thinking (about this issue) in the West.

Footnotes

[1] Retired Nuclear Physicist.

[2] Individual Publication Date: July 1, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/williams-5; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Luis Ortiz on Family, Intelligence Scores, and Views: Member, Glia Society (1)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/07/01

Abstract

Luis Ortiz is a Member of the Glia Society. He discusses: growing up; an extended self;’ the family background; peers and schoolmates; the purpose of intelligence tests; high intelligence discovered; geniuses; the greatest geniuses in history; a genius from a profoundly intelligent person; some work experiences and educational certifications; the idea of the gifted and geniuses; some social and political views; the God concept; science; some of the tests taken and scores earned; the range of the scores; and ethical philosophy.

Keywords: family, Glia Society, intelligence, I.Q., Luis Ortiz, self.

Conversation with Luis Ortiz on Family, Intelligence Scores, and Views: Member, Glia Society (1)

*Please see the references, footnotes, and citations, after the interview, respectively.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: When you were growing up, what were some of the prominent family stories being told over time?

Luis Ortiz[1],[2]*: Nothing interesting. I only remember anecdotes about myself only. For instance, when I was about two years old. It had recently been Christmas and in the living room of the place where I was living at the time there was a Christmas tree with the lights disconnected. I remember getting up in the middle of the night to go to the Christmas tree and plug it in. My parents mention that they were scared because at some point in the night they woke up and realized the tree was on and thought maybe someone had broken in. When they checked, it turned out to be me looking at the tree.

I remember this fact myself but somewhat vaguely.

Jacobsen: Have these stories helped provide a sense of an extended self or a sense of the family legacy?

Ortiz: No.

Jacobsen: What was the family background, e.g., geography, culture, language, and religion or lack thereof?

Ortiz: I come from a Catholic family that was very religious back then when I was a child. Nowadays they are not so religious anymore but they are still very spiritual. Regarding the geographical origins I do not know many details. I only know that part of the family is of Spanish origin. This is quite common in Mexico, actually. I guess it is still remarkable because I can tell that the phenotype of my family, in terms of appearance and personality, tends to differ a lot from the typical one here in Mexico.

Jacobsen: How was the experience with peers and schoolmates as a child and an adolescent?

Ortiz: Bad, I would add. I recall being a somewhat eccentric child but still remarkably normal for the first 5 years of my life. In primary school, around 6 years old, things started to get bad. I recall feeling extremely bored. I never payed attention. The vast majority of time it was me playing with my school utensils. Strangely, this habit lasted until about the age of 9 years, and I recall getting bullied for that. I recall people making fun of me because I was an eccentric child talking alone while playing with whatever was within my reach. I remember this myself. Everything was more or less normal and when I entered to primary school, some months thereafter I began to feel school so boring and decided to distract myself doing other things.

I had to receive attention from a psychologist from that school because I suddenly became from normal to a bad student. The psychologist in question succeeded in helping me improve my performance, but then my mother decided to just move out from the city I was living in back then and I got transferred. From there on, none of the schools I went (yes, there were more transfers) had any psychologist and never went to see any despite the obvious abnormalities. My performance declined so badly that I repeated third grade and almost fourth. But this is irrelevant to the point of the question.

Even though I made some friends I was alone most of the time. And the fact that I transferred many times did not helped.

Basically, during my childhood, my experience consisted of some loneliness in school, being occasionally accompanied by one friend. I tried to play soccer with other kids in order to be more “normal” and incorporate but I was too bad for that. I guess it was my lack of practice, the fact that soccer is a mainstream sport practiced almost daily for years by almost anyone going to school, and some lack of talent from me.

I remember there was a mate in a Christian school I went who liked to feign being possessed by the devil. He boasted so much about being evil itself and being the son of satan. Curiously, this kid was actually a Christian. He was joking, obviously, but the way in which he did so was far unusual. I do not remember any other religious Christian being anywhere close to reassemble that.

Around my teenage years I stabilized more towards normality but still was very abnormal and could not fit as expected. These were terrible years for me. I had problems with my family and had to transfer many times again from one school to another. I lost contact with the few friends I made like 3 times.

In sum, my general experience is characterized by being someone abnormal with a small group of friends and occasionally trying to fit in with normies. Nowadays I am surprised by the fact that it took me years to realise how different I was from normies and the obvious fact that I was never going to fit.

I could go on but I guess this is enough to show that it was a bad experience generally speaking. This left me some deep psychological wounds, because whenever I see references on memes and jokes about usual school situations, or anything related, I tend to feel uncomfortable and furious. I developed a deep hatred towards school, the way in which basic education is taught here and some behaviours displayed by mexican teens.

I confess I would love to have a regular school experience or something better, like the stuff you see on movies, TV shows and anime series, but I guess I was too abnormal for that. Not to mention the problems with my parents and the fact that mexicans really need something like 15 additional I.Q. points.

Jacobsen: What is the purpose of intelligence tests to you?

Ortiz: They are useful tools for assessing people’s intellectual potential. Although imperfect, they are still informative and useful for detecting high I.Q.’s. If someone is intelligent enough to deserve special education, it should be mandatory to receive it. Forcing highly intelligent people to pass through the regular curriculum could bring severe problems. I suspect that was a strong reason behind my failure at school, besides my deviant personality.

As for high range I.Q. tests, I think they are entertaining and challenging. I enjoy the feeling that comes when a solution to a hard and tough problem comes. They also help people in gaining insight into their aptitude profile.

Jacobsen: When was high intelligence discovered for you?

Ortiz: Around 11 years old. I never suspected that I was intelligent before that. Actually it was the opposite. I had the idea that I was a little bit mentally retarded. This was because I never fitted in in school and spent most of my free time playing videogames, watching t.v., playing alone, surfing the web and so on. It never occurred to me that I could be an intelligent individual mainly because I never gave myself the opportunity to manifest my potential, and neither school nor my family did so, I was a problematic child and never fitted in well in school. Because of this, my self-esteem got a little bit undermined. Actually, at some point I recall feeling totally useless. So I thought I was simply not suited for anything related using the brain.

I recall surfing through Youtube until finding, by accident, a video which showed a comparison between the sizes of different planets and stars. For some reason I liked that video and watched it many times. After that I found a documentary about the sun and found it interesting. I watched many documentaries eventually. At some point I watched so many documentaries that I became very well articulated and informed about many arcane subjects which no one cared, then changed my mind about my capacity. Something bizarre about this is the fact that my high intelligence was so obvious that everyone was very well aware of it, but no one did absolutely anything. This is when my psychological wounds emerge again, whenever I see those prodigy children on the media sometimes I can not avoid feeling bad for never receiving any proper education and attention (prodigy children are recognized because they often receive proper attention early in their lives). Rather, I got forced to pass through regular school with its obvious shortcomings.

Jacobsen: When you think of the ways in which the geniuses of the past have either been mocked, vilified, and condemned if not killed, or praised, flattered, platformed, and revered, what seems like the reason for the extreme reactions to and treatment of geniuses? Many alive today seem camera shy – many, not all.

Ortiz: A genius, in my view, is a highly creative person, a person who makes outstanding contributions to a given field. Someone who brings up new brilliant ideas and fundamental changes in a discipline, someone who makes actual advances. It is hard for me to define what constitutes actual advances but at least they are not hard to recognise, specially in the case of exact sciences. Creativity, by its very nature of bringing something new, often breaks down the usual beliefs, old ideas and dogmas, that people hold. Therefore it tends to offend vested interests and people who like to believe in lies, the irrational and often unprincipled; at the same time, tends to gain respect from those more predisposed towards accepting and appreciating real advance. Hence, a genius, being a supreme manifestation of creativity, will tend raise extreme reactions.

Paul Cooijmans mentioned that creativity is the expression of awareness. This does make sense to me. Being creative requires both inner drive and novel insights. Only an aware brain would arrive at novel ideas and have the self-drive required to develop these ideas. Edward Dutton and Bruce G. Charlton in their book “The Genius Famine” mention that genius is an Endogenous personality, a combination of innate high ability, inner motivation and intuitive thinking. They put some emphasis on the fact that Endogenous personality is an inner oriented, self driven kind of person. I receive the impression that this is the result of something special happening inside the head of a person with creative potential. It could be that extreme reactions are the result of people perceiving something unusual regarding the individual in question.

Jacobsen: Who seem like the greatest geniuses in history to you?

Ortiz: I would mention anyone who is considered a scientific genius and who has achieved extraordinary feats in advancing science, philosophy and arts. Beyond that, it is hard to identify who would undoubtedly qualify as genius as already defined here. To name some examples include Isaac Newton, Christiaan Huygens and Galileo Galilei.

Jacobsen: What differentiates a genius from a profoundly intelligent person?

Ortiz: A profoundly intelligent person is someone with a very high I.Q., say, something like being three standard deviations above the mean (145 points; the top 0.135% of the population). While having a high I.Q. is a necessary condition for the outstanding creative achievements that characterizes a genius, it is not sufficient. Therefore, the main difference lies in personality and the way in which genius is predisposed to see and perceive the world. A profoundly intelligent person may be very well creative or just normal, whereas a genius is a very rare kind of individual whose personality comprises some traits which are very rare to find strongly expressed in the very same individual. I refer the reader to Cooijmans’ articles about genius, Edward Dutton’s book “The Genius Famine”, Hans Eysenck’s “Genius. The natural history of creativity”, and Arthur Jensen’s (this appears in the book Intellectual Talent: Psychometric and Social Issues) “Giftedness and Genius: Important Differences”.

The latter provides a good illustration of what is a genius and what is a profoundly intelligent person. It draws a distinction by describing the case of Ramanujan and Hardy.

Jacobsen: What have been some work experiences and educational certifications for you?

Ortiz: Menial and uninteresting jobs only. No remarkable credentials for the moment. I only finished what is the equivalent of high school here.

Jacobsen: What are some of the more important aspects of the idea of the gifted and geniuses? Those myths that pervade the cultures of the world. What are those myths? What truths dispel them?

Ortiz: One important aspect is the distinction already made here between intellectual capacity and potential for creative achievement.

“Genius” is used in a lightly way often. People showing talent, prodigy childs and profoundly intelligent people in general are sometimes labeled as geniuses. I would not put in doubt the value of these kinds of people, but I think “genius” should be reserved for something more elevated. Supremely creative people, of course.

As for using the word gifted, I refer the reader to Cooijmans’ article “Reasons to avoid the term “gifted””. It is helpful in providing an understanding of the importance of an accurate employment of words, not just in regards to high intelligence.

Jacobsen: What are some social and political views for you? Why hold them?

Ortiz: I am not decided yet on this matter. But, for the moment, I would mention that classical liberalism seems attractive to me. Classical marxism, in contrast, and anything deriving from it, seems terribly loathsome.

But leaving that aside. I strongly support some specific measures. For instance, Cooijmans’ idea of vote weighting based on intelligence; Wim Rietdijk’s idea of interviewing with lie detectors relevant politicians, journalists, business people, etc. Interviews with very specific and straightforward questions: “what is your actual interest? Are you working for someone else? Do you have an interest in destroying our current democratic society?”. A reason to support this is to make it hard for bad and incompetent people to ascend and occupy any position of power and significance in society, and easier for naturally competent, good, intelligent people with a genuine interest in advancing society.

Also I think eugenics is vastly important. Intelligence and good character are among the pillars of civilization. Without these things a successful society in perpetual advance is not possible. Since these things are mostly genetic, some measures should be taken to make them abound. There should exist policies encouraging intelligent and good natured people to procreate more, and procreation from criminals should be banned completely. Unfortunately, it has become heresy to talk about eugenics in this way. This is so sad. Without it, societies are condemned to rise and fall endlessly with the constant risk of losing everything with every decay. Not to mention the constant threat of natural disasters with the potential to end life as we know it. Without a powerful civilization able to survive or counter these disasters, humanity is at risk of disappearing forever leaving little or no trace. For these reasons, and more, I think eugenics is among humanity’s most powerful weapons against life’s cruelties.

Jacobsen: Any thoughts on the God concept or gods idea and philosophy, theology, and religion?

Ortiz: I think this matter is very complicated. First, on the concept of god: I am skeptical about the existence of any god or “superior intelligence”. I suppose god must have a mind or a kind of awareness not dissimilar from the kind of awareness we have. Otherwise probably there would not exist the need to call it god. I do not see any “mind” acting out there. I see structure in the universe of course, and minds are complicated structures themselves, but it must be reminded that not all structures are minds!

It could be said that god is acting from some kind of unconditioned reality, but how the heck am I supposed to believe that? I wonder. I care about the real world and its natural causes among things and phenomena, not about supernatural unverifiable things. The rejection of only existing natural causes and events introduces supernatural causes to the world. That is to say that there are things for which there cannot exist any logical explanation working in terms of our world. Any observed potential supernatural phenomenon should be seen as natural because it is acting in our world of natural causes and effects, and as such, constitutes a cause or an effect itself that comes from somewhere. Seeing potential supernatural causes in the world and not giving them any proper explanation, or not seeking one if there is not any available, is a matter of faith, of reasoning errors. You are renouncing, partly at least, to rationality as a medium to derive explanations about the empirical datum and make sense of the world.

As for religion, I am not the kind of atheist who despises religion. I believe people should be left free to choose their religion, as far as it concerns something not dangerous, or choose whether they should be spiritual or not. I do not think it is necessarily bad. Religion often provides people an ethical framework, a meaning of life and the satisfaction of accomplishing an elevated end, of existing for something greater. Provides a sense of leading a meaningful life.

Most humans are unable to make sense of the world logically. They employ supernatural causes in their vision of the world as a consequence. They also need a meaning of life. Religion is what provides these things, a meaning for life and a (crude) model of the world, to them. It is what naturally follows given their limitations, both intellectual and in regards to life’s cruelty.

Jacobsen: How much does science play into the worldview for you?

Ortiz: It is fundamentally important as it helps to grow knowledge about real world. It helps to provide some understanding about the real physical world and myself. I am not competent enough to evaluate scientific theories and models at a technical level yet but I am working on that. I strive to be a polymath proficient in many areas.

Jacobsen: What have been some of the tests taken and scores earned (with standard deviations) for you?

Ortiz: Below are some scores expressed on a scale with the standard deviation being equal to 15, next to the name of the test:

PIGS 2, 155;

Numina4D, 154;

INRC 2018, 146;

Cogitatus Logicae 30, 156;

These are some performances on tests which I consider good. Also, I consider them strongly representative of at least my non-verbal ability. I am planning to take verbal tests on the future to get a better picture.

Jacobsen: What is the range of the scores for you? The scores earned on alternative intelligence tests tend to produce a wide smattering of data points rather than clusters, typically.

Ortiz: About 80 points. My lowest score ever is about 80, if I recall correctly. It was on a test which I decided to finish prematurely. My highest is 164.

Yes, such enormous difference between the lowest and highest score is possible, and perhaps common. The tests are not perfect and always capture something else besides general ability. And even if they could capture the whole of general ability only, people vary in their mental ability across lifetime. You will not perform equally well on a test when old and decaying than when younger and at your peak of general ability. Sometimes I.Q.’s, as is often the case in mainstream psychology, express people’s performance relative to other people of the same age and sex. Even then, people develop and decay at different rates, so again there are no reasons to expect scoring the same even on a hypothetical test measuring general intelligence only, unless abandoning such comparisons and using some absolute scale of intelligence.

Jacobsen: What ethical philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Ortiz: I am not decided about this, too. I work intuitively, as I am aware that both strong reasoning ability and interest in being a good person provide almost instantly and naturally what is needed in order to act ethically. Being ethical is easy when you actually care about it and have high intelligence. I think it is possible to develop universal and objective ethics, and have some access to them. But that requires high intelligence. And as far as I know, I have both an interest on being a good person and a high intelligence.

I normally try to think if what I will do will cause any harm or if there will be any negative consequences. Of course, “negativity” is judged based upon the specific situation and its context. One important thing to keep in mind is the existence of awareness and suffering. A distinction between good and evil makes sense because of these things. Good people act in such a way that perpetuates awareness’ existence and avoids adding as much as possible to the total suffering in the universe.

Something I noticed many people do is putting too much emphasis on protecting others’ feelings. I do not like this. Life is full of uncomfortable situations. Life is essentially, and in part, uncomfortable. Sometimes it is necessary to tell people the most uncomfortable things. Indeed, it is quite usual to get involved in uncomfortable situations with people whom you appreciate.

Actually, I hate this kind of approach. Why should I be forced to consider others’ feelings constantly? It is annoying and to some extent constraining. If people lack any maturity to take whatever I am saying, that is not my problem. It could be argued that my logic could be used to intentionally seek any harm to others’ feelings and then excusing oneself with not doing anything bad. But I am merely arguing that putting too much emphasis on others’ feelings is annoying, unnecessary, something I would not do. Obviously, I would not try to freely annoy people unless they deserve it.

Footnotes

[1] Member, Glia Society.

[2] Individual Publication Date: July 1, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/ortiz-1; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Justin Duplantis and Matthew Scillitani on I.Q. and the Young: Lifetime Member, Triple Nine Society; Member, Giga Society (1)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/07/01

Abstract

Justin Duplantis is a Lifetime Member of Triple Nine Society. Matthew Scillitani is a member of The Glia Society and The Giga Society. They discuss: the education of the young and the role of education; the importance of parents; Boris Sidis; mental illnesses; individuals who have higher I.Q.s and struggle with mental illness; and highest I.Q. scores.

Keywords: Giga Society, Glia Society, Justin Duplantis, Matthew Scillitani, Triple Nine Society.

Justin Duplantis and Matthew Scillitani on I.Q. and the Young: Lifetime Member, Triple Nine Society; Member, Giga Society (1)

*Please see the references, footnotes, and citations, after the interview, respectively.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: You both have overlapping interests in education and psychology, respectively. High intelligence, as measured by I.Q. tests, has been established as mostly hereditary. Recent studies seem to indicate 80% or more genetic contribution to the expression of I.Q. as a metric of intelligence, which seems staggering based on the general poor levels of definite knowledge in psychology. This one seems more so than others. If so, so if taking an evidence-based approach with the most updated scientific findings, what does this mean for the education of the young and the role of education in assistance to the gifted and talented?

Justin Duplantis: It comes down to predisposition. If there is a likelihood that gifted parents will have gifted offspring, there should be ownership taken to pursue this and ensure their children are properly educated.

Matt Scillitani: This result provides some evidence for just how wasted our resources are on mentally handicapped children. If intelligence is 80% or more genetic then there is little point in dedicating so much attention to intellectually disabled kids since there won’t be much improvement anyway. My suggestion is to change the IEP to focus on the smartest rather than the most disabled children and to minimize the resources given to the children in an IEP today.

Jacobsen: What does this mean for the importance of parents and providing a program of enrichment, whether structured advanced guidance or free-roaming with plentiful resources for the kid?

Duplantis: As you referenced through providing various outlets, it is important to understand that there is no one size fits all solution for the education of any group of children and gifted youth are no different. It is about encouraging them to pursue their areas of interest and providing them the proper resources to enable that pursuit.

Scillitani: Schools should probably be well structured and not free-roaming. We can’t trust that children will act in their own best interest and actually learn any material if they’re in a laissez-faire learning environment. Parents should also have little or no voice in how schools are run, by the way. Just because they have a kid doesn’t mean they know anything about child psychology or education. It was always absurd to me how the school system allowed parents to waste so much of their time and have such strong (and ignorant) voices.

Jacobsen: Bill Sidis is, often, pointed out as either a failure, a social outcast, a genius, or a self-isolating intellectual. Whether the myth can be entirely separated from the mythos, he was smart. He was separated from wider society. Was Boris Sidis’ highly structured education appropriate, or not? Would maintaining contact with same-age peers be advisable?

Duplantis: What a loaded question. As indicated above, there is no generalization that can be made, rather assessments need to be individualized. Whilst some children would flourish among their peers, others would feel intellectually stunted. As a child, I enjoyed playing games with my great-grandmother and her friends, rather than going to friend’s house. The intellectual stimulation and adult conversation was refreshing and a dynamic shift from school.

Scillitani: This is a very sad story of how a brilliant young man’s future can be ruined by too ambitious parents and teachers. Of course his education was not appropriate since it stole his childhood and put him under crippling life-long stress. At the very least he should have had some classes with children his age.

Jacobsen: You two may have different opinions on this one. It has been a while, and opinions change. Nonetheless, how much do mental illnesses affect individuals with giftedness compared to the general population?

Duplantis: I suppose it depends upon what one defines as mental illness. There are certain afflictions, if you will, that are more prevalent in the high IQ community. The individuals have to face the feelings of solitude brought on by characteristics of high IQ as well as those of their given afflictions.

Scillitani: Intelligent people tend to handle psychiatric illness better and are diagnosed less often than in the general population. It’s usually that if two people have the same psychiatric illness the smarter of them will have less expression of that illness than the dumber of the two. Severe psychiatric illness combined with intelligence can also sometimes produce genius but such does not happen with a psychiatrically ill idiot. Every genius has a touch of madness as they say.

Jacobsen: What seems to happen with individuals who have higher I.Q.s and struggle with mental illness, psychiatric diagnoses?

Duplantis: Although much is similar, the variance comes in the ability to rationalize not taking medication. Due to the high intellect, they are often able to persuade themselves and others that they are able to handle their govern afflictions free from the oppression of prescribed medications.

Scillitani: It is hard for them. It’s harder for someone who’s not so smart but there is a whole different kind of struggle when you’re intelligent and have a psychiatric disorder. The smart person with depression, anxiety, autism, or whatever is usually going to find it much harder to get help because (1) they’re used to solving problems on their own and (2) they usually know more about themselves than any mental health professional ever could, so why even bother? The therapist will also find it hard to relate with the brilliant patient since it’s much easier to empathize with someone at or beneath yourself than it is to empathize with someone above. Therapists, counselors, and clinical psychologists know what it’s like to make dumb decisions, everyone does, but they can’t understand how we think, and that’s a big issue when you’re trying to help someone change their patterns of thinking and behavior.

Jacobsen: Also, people, may be curious if they don’t know. What were the highest I.Q. scores earned by the two of you? What were the tests (even test plus statistical methodology for extrapolation) used for acquisition of such a high score? T.N.S. and the Giga Society are difficult to enter.

Duplantis: MAT – 548 – just shy of 6SD.

Scillitani: From highest to lowest: Psychometric Qrosswords (190+ 15 S.D.), The Marathon Test – Verbal (176 15 S.D.), Rhyming Riddles (173+ 15 S.D.), Addagrams (173 15 S.D.), The Marathon Test – Numerical (167+ 15 S.D.), The Marathon Test (166 I.Q. 15 S.D.), A Relaxing Test (165 15 S.D.), Splice (164+ 15 S.D.), Dicing with death (162 S.D. 15), and The Piper’s Test (161 15 S.D.) are my ten highest scores to date I believe. I may have a few more 170+ scores but I can’t remember at the moment. I’ve also taken some “mainstream” tests like the W.A.I.S. and have maxed them out since they don’t have very high ceilings. My lowest score of all time was on one of Paul Cooijmans’ Netherlandic tests where I scored 123. I later taught myself Dutch and took another Netherlandic test where I scored 158 to redeem myself though. As for the norming method used in these high-range tests, it’s most often simply “anchoring” one’s scores on other I.Q. tests to their raw score on the object test.

Footnotes

[1] Justin Duplantis works in computational biology and will complete his MBA specializing in data analytics this month. A lifetime member of the Triple Nine Society, he served as an Executive Committee member and Editor of their journal, Vidya. He is a father of two profoundly gifted boys, whom joined him in Mensa membership at the ages of two and three. Justin has interests in high IQ communities, intelligence, and intelligence research, as measured by IQ tests. Beyond that, he is a former professional billiards player and is currently playing in Israel in the Israeli Elite Hockey League (IEHL).

[2] Matthew Scillitani, member of The Glia Society and The Giga Society, is a web developer and SEO specialist living in North Carolina. He is of Italian and British lineage, and is predominantly English-speaking. He earned his bachelor’s degree in psychology at East Carolina University, with a focus on neurobiology and a minor in business marketing. He’s previously worked as a research psychologist, data analyst, and writer, publishing over three hundred papers on topics such as nutrition, fitness, psychology, neuroscience, free will, and Greek history. You may contact him via e-mail at mattscil@gmail.com.

[3] Individual Publication Date: July 15, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/duplantis-scillitani-1; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

The Greenhorn Chronicles 12: Erynn Ballard on Canadian Equestrianism

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/06/22

Abstract

Canadian Show Jumping Team veteran Erynn Ballard is one of the top-ranked female show jumping athletes in the world. Her career began with great success in the hunter, jumper, and equitation rings as a junior rider, including becoming only the second Canadian to ever win the ASPCA Maclay National Championships in 1998. One year later, Ballard won the individual gold medal at the 1999 North American Young Riders’ Championship. In 2006, Ballard made her Nations’ Cup debut at the Spruce Meadows ‘Masters’ tournament and helped Canada win for the first time in the event’s history. That same year, she was named ‘Equestrian of the Year’ by her National Federation. Since then, she has accumulated numerous wins at the five-star level. Renowned for her impressive catch-riding abilities, Ballard currently rides for Ilan Ferder Stables, an internationally-respected training and sales operation. She discusses: becoming interested in equestrianism; highly accomplished in several platforms and earning awards in the industry; earliest articles; Maclay Finals; competition; great mentors; influence; a uniform training style; repetition and feel; picking a horse for the body build; Europe; the change; socioeconomic issues of haves and have-nots; career highlights post-Maclay; Canada; sit-down discussions; competitions, events, or speaking engagements; not really doing anything differently; riding; pragmatism and realism; endurance; working; an internal halt once; and career choices.

Keywords: 2024 Paris Olympics, ASPCA Maclay National Championships, Canada, Canadian, equestrianism, Erynn Ballard, Europe, FEI, Geneva, Grand Prix, horse, Kim Kirton, Leslie Reid, Milton, Nations Cup, North America, Ocala, Palm Beach, Pan Am Games, Spruce Meadows, U25.

The Greenhorn Chronicles 12: Erynn Ballard on Canadian Equestrianism

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citations after the interview.*

*Interview conducted January 10, 2022.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Let’s start from the beginning, naturally, what were some of the earlier experiences for you, which stood out in terms of becoming interested in equestrianism?

Erynn Ballard[1],[2],[3]: I have been doing it for so long. I don’t know if there is one thing that stood out over another. It was my parents’ business. Before I turned 5, we lived in town, in a small house. Around my 5th birthday, we moved to the farm where I grew up. That was probably the turning point, which was living on the farm with the horses.

I grew up in Milton. It wasn’t until 2005 when my parents moved up North. The farm that we owned was right on the 401. So, it was time to sell the land, then we moved North.

Jacobsen: Obviously, you’re the number 1 ranked equestrian in Canada [Ed. At the time of the interview, now, one of the top-ranked women equestrians in the world]. You’re highly accomplished in several platforms and earning awards in the industry. Was this precocity with horses noted early? Or were you an ordinary rider who worked very hard, or some combination of the two?

Ballard: I don’t know. I don’t know how you become good. I was always good. I won from a very early stage, but I don’t know if people noticed me, at the time. Certainly, I never felt like I was any sort of prodigy. I was just a kid who liked to ride horses and won a lot of classes.

Jacobsen: What were the earliest articles written about you when you started becoming noticed? Do you recall any of those?

Ballard: Probably, the biggest most notable win was when I won Maclay Finals. I was 17 and just turned 18. It is a big equitation final in the U.S. That would have given me, for sure, the most publicity. It is one of the biggest accomplishments you can have as a junior.

Jacobsen: How many juniors take part in that competition in particular?

Ballard: You have to compete at the regionals before you go to the Finals. That year, it was at the Gardens, maybe 185. I don’t know – around there.

Jacobsen: All these ~185 have gone through their own filtration to train, go through competitions, to compete at the ASPCA Maclay Finals. So, when you’re getting trained early on and winning competitions, who do you mark as great mentors for you, trainers?

Ballard: I grew up with my parents. When I was quite young, I went on the road. When I was 10- or 11-years-old, I went on the road to ride ponies with Kim Kirton, who is a trainer in Canada. Then I went into equitation to do it properly in the United States. Missy Clark was my trainer. Still, to this day, those two people are very influential in my life.

Jacobsen: What would you attribute each individual’s influence on you? What particular quality stands out to you?

Ballard: For both of those people, they teach a very individual style. They let each rider be their own selves. Some trainers, you can see. You can pick out that rider rides with that person because they pick up a characteristic of that stable. Missy, certainly, each of her riders; she works on their own strengths. She focuses on those. You become less uniform and more individual if that makes sense.

Jacobsen: Are there areas in which a uniform training style is beneficial?

Ballard: I’m sure. Maybe, people with less natural feel excel in a more uniform training environment, where everything is done the same way. You work solely on repetition. Basically, any good trainer works on repetition, but specific to body type. How you sit on a horse, the first time you sit on a horse; it will be the way you look on the horse, for the most part, for the rest of your life.

I am lucky for this sport. I have a shorter upper body, longer legs, and longer arms. So, it is easier for me to sit in the center of a horse. Missy would work on my individual style as far as how I physically looked on the horse rather than conforming me to a different position. That’s where you have to work on repetition for training, but how you sit on a horse for the first day is how you’re always going to sit on the horse because it’s your place of balance.

Some people with shorter legs and longer upper bodies may have a harder time staying in balance. They can become heavier at the top. People with shorter arms may have a harder time if they are riding lower with a low horse because they may be restricted in their ability to bend their elbows to go with the horse’s balance. They may get stuck because their arm doesn’t give them the freedom to go with the balance.

So, when you’re working on training, and when you’re working with kids developing, you have to focus on their physical build. You have to focus on a horse suitable for them, suitable for their physical build. Then you can focus on their abilities.

Jacobsen: You mentioned repetition and feel. What is the importance of repetition regardless of the training style in equestrianism, generally? What is the importance of feel? I have heard this term a lot as a greenhorn.

Ballard: Feel, you can’t teach. It would be comparable to a golf swing. You can’t teach somebody feel. That’s where repetition comes into place. Feel, you would have to associate that with pure natural ability. Some people have more. Some people have less. You include the repetition. So, maybe, those with less understand how to work a horse’s movements.

So, take, for example, I work on a pole line. Two poles on the ground, not even a jump, every time, I walk my own 22 steps. I do that so every single horse that I ride; I know how they make what should be 5 strides in between those 2 poles feel good. Then I can make 6 strides feel good. The repetition of doing that, making me understand the horse’s stride, also helps with the feel. A feel for 5. A feel for 6.

What do I need to do to make it do 5 strides? What do I need to do to shorten it to make it do 6 strides? So, when I do it, I am, specifically thinking, “What do I need to make the horse do to make it feel good?” When the kids are doing it, the horse should already know how to do it. So, I’m teaching them how to feel how 5 feels good and how 6 feels good.

If I change the distance, if I make it 25 steps or 27 steps, you can still do 5 or 6 strides in between those two poles, but it is not consistent. The repetition of keeping it the same every single time, for me, when I am training a horse or when a kid is doing the same exercise; I am trying through exercise to teach them feel.

Jacobsen: The idea of picking a horse for the body build. I’m intuiting picking the horse with the psychology of the person, so understanding the psychology of the horse as part of the feel. Is that part of the feel?

Ballard: Horses have independent thoughts. That’s a problem. We can’t always control them. So, when I pick a horse for a kid, I do think their body types have to be suitable. If a person has shorter legs, I don’t want to put them on a very wide horse. The shorter their legs are, the wider the horse is, the less comfortably their legs will sit on that horse’s body. In a shorter person, I need to create more length. So, it would be more suitable to put them on a normal-bodied horse. So, from their hips, they have the ability to make their legs longer rather than wider if that makes sense.

If a person has short arms, I don’t want to put them on a horse that has a very long neck. Because like I said earlier, otherwise, they don’t have the ability to bend their elbows. Then they get stuck. If they get stuck, a term we’d use is “hanging” on the horse’s mouth. They can’t take or give. They get stuck there. I do think in order to make a good match; their body types have to match.

They have to suit each other. You have to look at each other together and say, “Those two look good.” If you look at a kid on a horse, and from the get-go it looks awkward, then it will probably feel awkward. It is up to the trainer and up to the person as well. They have to say, “I don’t feel that comfortable on this horse. He is too big (or too small) for me.” If the horse has a shorter front end, and if it is a taller person, they will not feel comfortable because they will be looking over its ears.

The taller person needs a horse out in front of it to control their upper body and help them with their balance. So, I’d say, “That’s education.” It is a feel for training and for finding a horse for somebody.

The psychology of it; we don’t have that much control over the thought of horses. I’ve picked out horses for someone before. In that trial, with a horse, you have two or three times to try it.

Say, from the first day to the third day, the horse is jumping higher and giving more air, and looking more careful. You’re thinking, “Wow! I’m doing a great job.” However, what that horse, actually, told me, I didn’t know. The horse was jumping higher and with more care because he was scared. That fear turned into a bad match. So, sometimes, we pick a horse that doesn’t work. It isn’t necessarily our fault.

That horse couldn’t tell us, “What you see is not what I’m thinking.” For the most part, if a horse goes well, for a rider, then you should be able to manage it in a program. I am always, when I sell a horse to a kid, there to ride it. If the kid makes a mistake, or a horse is green or makes a mistake, I have the ability to get on it and fix it. Even myself, the horse’s I jump in the biggest classes; Ilan (Ferder) trains them. He is bigger and stronger.

He instructs them. Then he puts me on them for the final result. It is the same for the kids. We ride them. The professionals ride them. The bigger, the stronger, person manages the horse. The owner should be able to produce the horse. The better the owner gets, the more they are able to do on their horse. The one thing with equestrianism or horse riding, there is no one way better than another.

There are books on horsemanship, but there are no books on individual styles in training. Each rider picks a person that they want to ride with because they believe in them. Each person that they pick to ride with has their own style and their own program; that’s what makes everyone a little different.

Jacobsen: How is this kind of upbringing, thinking about training, and suitability of a horse to a rider, different from Europe? I’m told in some conversations, though early in the series, granted, about the difference between the Western European and North American mindset about training and selection of rider to horse. It is a little bit different. Is this something that you note as someone more experienced in the field?

Ballard: In the last 20 years, Europe has, definitely, caught up to the North American style of riding. They, certainly, have an edge on the buying, selling, breeding, and the development. So, at your highest level, when you’re talking about the best 100 riders in the world, I don’t think there’s much difference between your European training and North American style training, maybe below that.

The startup, our education is much more sophisticated with the pony-hunters and the equitation, and the customer service. A long time ago in Europe, there weren’t customers. Even individual riders had their own barns, they weren’t involved in a specific training program. Now, even in Europe, the biggest trainers, the biggest dealers, they all have people who work under them as trainers. They have developed our style of training the amateurs, the 1.20, the 1.30, the FEI children.

Even in South America, the best are the best; and it is comparable around the world. North America has a little edge on development. Everyone is developing very fast.

Jacobsen: What convinced them in the last 20 years to make the change (the Europeans)?

Ballard: They saw our success.

Jacobsen: [Laughing] Fair enough.

Ballard: Especially with the amateurs buying expensive horses, the U25 has opened a market for sales. The Europeans always had the horses. It was always the Americans going to Europe to buy the expensive horses. Now, it is hard to go to buy the expensive horses because they are keeping them for their own U25 riders. So, they learned from us.

Jacobsen: Do these socioeconomic issues of haves and have-nots, increasing income disparity, wealth disparity, in many countries in the world, impact this sport from the bottom level and up, as a follow-up to that question?

Ballard: There are a lot of people who gain from it. A lot of professionals and dealers who gain from it, who can sell horses more expensive, who are able to have more opportunities because we are working with wealthier clients. Does it make it harder for the average, middle-class family to keep up? Yes. But I think the world always works itself out and always finds a balance. You take Palm Beach and Ocala. Palm Beach is the best of the best.

It is the most expensive. I could go on and on, and on. In Ocala, they have the World Equestrian Centre, which is – literally – the best facility ever made in all of the world. That man offers free stalls. So, you get to go to Ocala and show at the best facility that has ever existed at, maybe, a 1/3rd of the cost of Palm Beach.

You are gaining opportunity. Maybe, you are not riding against the best people in the whole world, but he is offering ridiculous amounts of prize money, beautiful stables. People can go there as a source of income because the overhead, for once in your lifetime, is less than the money offered in prize money. So, that is giving a huge opportunity to people that, maybe, can’t be here. Maybe, if they win enough there, and if they get seen, and if they are in the spotlight, then they have the chance to go work for somebody or to come to Palm Beach for a week and show off what they have.

There is always a way. I am not really a believer in the idea that if you don’t have the means, then you don’t have the chance. I think there’s always a way. You may have to work harder than some other people. But if you want it bad enough, then you are going to do the work anyways.

Jacobsen: What would you consider some of your career highlights post-Maclay?

Ballard: I mean, so many, but the biggest ones would be winning the Nations Cup in Spruce Meadows twice. For a Canadian team, it has only won the Nations Cup there three times. I was on the first winning team; I was on the third winning team. I was double clear in the Nations Cup in Lima for Canada at Pan Am Games. I got to show in Geneva two weeks ago.

I didn’t have my best results [in Geneva], but it is one of the hardest shows to get into. I had the opportunity to show. Sometimes, it is not always based on results, but on opportunities. At the moment, I am the second highest ranked female rider in the entire world. That’s massive. Every year gets better than the last. On Friday, I won the last Grand Prix in 2021. On Sunday, I won the first Grand Prix of 2022.

In three days…

Jacobsen: …[Laughing] feeling pretty good.

Ballard: [Laughing] that’s pretty cool. Not major classes, but to put that on your resume or to talk about, “I won two Grand Prixes in three days and in two different years.”

Jacobsen: I asked some of the young ladies who I work with, some of whom compete. I said, “Is Erynn Ballard a big thing in your industry?” They paused, and then said, “Yeah.” So… [Laughing].

Ballard: [Laughing].

Jacobsen: Even bigger!

Ballard: Your background is not horses.

Jacobsen: 3 months into it, maybe, I’m working 7 days a week. Basically, landscaping, gardening, basic stable hand work, anything they need. There’s always work to do. I transitioned out of restaurants because it was supporting the independent journalism. I was thinking, “I’m working ~91hrs/week in restaurants. I want to see what it was like working with horses.”

I sent some resumes out. In a week or two, I was transitioned into working at a stable. So, taking a step back, if I am doing these interviews with the small ranches to trail rides to those who do dressage to those who do hunting or jumping, the whole range of equestrianism starting with Canada. I am sending emails out. In some of the preliminary conversations and interviews, including your own, people are in this industry as a lifestyle.

100%, they are in this as a lifestyle. Or if they aren’t, they weren’t intending it as such. It was a foot in the door phenomenon. They slowly ended up sinking into the industry. Now, they’re here. Reflecting on it more, I am getting more information from different perspectives in the industry.

The issues of those running farms or stables. The issues of land cost, property costs rising; and this causing an issue for some being able to survive. For instance, Leslie Reid sold her property who was a big name in dressage.

Is this something on your radar or something who you have conversations with in Canada about some areas of Canada having rising property prices or bylaw restrictions preventing the full flourishing of the sport in their area of Canada?

Ballard: I think the sport in Canada is not in a great way. I think Ontario is struggling without having The Royal and the creation of this Silver Series. I have done an interview about it before. I think the Silver Series offers more for less. As far as showing at the same venues, it costs you less money. Ontario survived for so long with the idea of The Royal.

Without The Royal, people are looking at different ways to spend their money. They may not be looking to buy a second horse or a better horse. I think the Ontario circuit is struggling. I am a little lucky because my parents own a farm. They have the farm in Tottenham. I am not there anymore because I am here full-time, at least while I have this job. This job could last forever. You never know with a job.

I hope it lasts forever. However, you don’t know. Have there been conversations if their upkeep of the farm is worth having? I don’t know the ultimate answer. We are fortunate. We have a beautiful farm. We can run a business off it. I don’t know what the long-term is for ourselves, personally, or for the long-term of the industry in Ontario.

Without me as a full-time presence out there, will the business be enough to balance the overhead? There’s a lot of businesses in Ontario doing quite well because they have nice properties and the locations. The Silver Series is making offers for lower-level stables to do more. So, in a way, there’s growth, but I don’t know if it is the growth that we are looking for to be stronger.

For a while now, the West Coast has had a stronger presence as far as the higher level of the sport. That’s probably because of what Thunderbird has; they’re so close to Washington state and offer the U.S. ratings. So, pre-Covid, I know it was a huge show for Americans to go to; the West Coast has Spruce Meadows, where Vancouver does quite well in the Hunters and Equitation because of their proximity to the U.S.

Spruce Meadows is Spruce Meadows. It is the coolest place to show and everyone wants to go there. I think the West Coast is stronger than the East Coast. I think Ontario is suffering.

Jacobsen: Do the higher ranked performers in hunter and jumper ever have sit-down discussions and meals to discuss these issues?

Ballard: Not really, we’re quite a diverse group of people. We have our own strengths and weaknesses. I am not afraid to talk. People have asked my opinion. If they ask me my opinion, I’ll give it. But some people don’t want to hear it.

The supporters of Silver Series don’t want to hear that, I think; it is doing more harm than good to the highest level of the sport. They’ll come at me with disbelief, which is fine. Maybe, I’m wrong. But I do know there is a gap with what the Silver Series is creating. It is an industry. It is a business. That, I don’t take away from it. It is thriving. I don’t see them taking those riders and turning them into U25 riders and 5-star riders, and riders for Canada.

I see it like being in a club, like a camp. I’ve said many times. Ontario, when it was The Royal, especially, it was an exclusive riding camp. You went to x amount of horse shows a summer to go to The Royal. The way that the layout is in Toronto. Very few people have to pay hotels. They live in Toronto and the shows are quite close and their stables are quite close. They keep the overhead quite low. They know how much it will cost from April to November.

If they have the ability, they go to Florida from December to April, and then go back to camp for the Summer.

Jacobsen: Looking at 2022, what competitions, events, or speaking engagements if you have them, are you looking forward to?

Ballard: Right now, if you’re talking about high performance, we’re working backwards from the 2024 Paris Olympics. So, Paris is the ultimate goal in three years. The easiest way to qualify for Paris is to get a result at the World Championships this year. So, working backwards from Paris, we need to be good enough at the World Championships this year, so we can take some pressure off ourselves at the Pan Ams to qualify for the Olympics this year, and then build for the next two years for Paris.

So, this is probably the most important year moving forward, in terms of high performance. Past that, I simply really like showing. I am looking for more experience in Europe if that comes my way. Right now, I am an employee. I have a great job, but, at the same time, I have to do what I’m told. I don’t necessarily not get to go to pretty cool places. So, I don’t have any complaints.

Jacobsen: Hypothetical, in some future, if you had the freedom to not have to do what you’re told, and only had to do what you wanted to tell yourself to do, what would you do?

Ballard: I’m not really sure if I would do anything differently.

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Ballard: I believe you have to go where you are the strongest. You make a plan, accordingly, for the horses that you have with you. If you don’t have the best horses in your string, you don’t go to Spruce Meadows. You stay where you’re competitive. If you have a 1.45m horse, you jump 1.45m. You win at 1.45m. If you have a 1.45m horse, and try to jump 1.55m, and if you’re not making your result, you can’t be mad.

You signed up to not be good. I think that that’s something hard in our sport as far as wherever I go I want to feel like I have the chance to win. I never want to go in over my head. Even going to Geneva, I didn’t have my best horse show, but I had my best horses. My best horses in 5-star, in Mexico, in Spruce Meadows, in Sacramento.

So, I went with my best horses and didn’t have my best show, and that happens too. But I would never go to the biggest show of my life without my best horses. I’d pick another show. There are so many. There are five horse shows every single week. So, you have to make smart choices. Five years from now, it depends on the horses.

If I’m going to not have Grand Prix horses, then I go back to riding hunters. Then I want to ride the best hunters. I want to go to Derby Finals and want to be champion in The Royal in the hunters. The thing about me, I like riding so much. It doesn’t matter where I ride. But wherever I go, I don’t want to lose.

Jacobsen: What’s the feeling of love while you’re riding? Can you add more tone to it?

Ballard: I just don’t think there’s anything else I would do. You meet a lot of people in this sport who are good at riding or, ten years later, as you said, fell into this. Maybe, they are unhappy. Trust me, there are plenty of people. If you talk to everybody, everybody in the whole world, there would be more people who feel like they have to ride or have to be in the industry, because there’s nothing else they can do, rather than people who feel lucky to be in the industry.

There will be a group of people who are lying if they tell you; that they feel lucky to do it every single day. Because not everybody does, but I do.

Jacobsen: My sense of you is two things. One is a pragmatism. Another is a realism. Where you don’t go to a competition ill-equipped, ill-prepared, or with the wrong expectations, the expectations seem accurate and proportional to the reality of the situation. It’s not pessimistic. It’s not pollyannish. Have you noticed other riders who make it – so to speak – who have a different outlook, or are most, at this very high level of competitiveness, pragmatic and realist?

Ballard: I don’t know, actually. I don’t know. That would be up to you, to talk to enough people.

Jacobsen: [Laughing] When I finish with Canada, I will move to other areas to see about the findings. It’s interesting. I am learning along as I do this series. It is very educational. 

Ballard: Also, if you’re only talking to people about horses, then you also have to have a passion for horses. It is not something you can understand if you don’t like them. It’s so foreign to a normal 9-5 job. Because it is a lifestyle. If you didn’t have a sense of the passion people get when they’re around horses, then you wouldn’t enjoy this. Equally, there are people who start out with a passion and get burned out, or get stuck.

They thought that they really wanted to do this. Maybe, they didn’t, but they don’t know what else they can do. They got in over their head. It cost too much money. It is a hard industry to make money, very hard, because the overhead is so high. You make $25,000 a month. But it costs you $35,000 to get to the end of the month.

If you’re talking about a boarding stable, what is the right way to do it. How do you charge enough? So that, at the end of the month, you are not losing money. Where are you making your money? Where do you gain to make it worth your while? When does the lifestyle [Laughing] part kick in? There’s not many Canadians who have the opportunity that I do.

So, I think that that, maybe, is something. I have seen both sides of it. I won my first Nations Cup at Spruce Meadows when I was 25. I didn’t ride on another team for 10 years. I stayed home, made a business, rode hunters, and taught riding lessons. That’s all I could do. That’s all the opportunity I had. I couldn’t go to the horse shows because my horses weren’t good enough.

So, practice what you’re good at and work on the opportunity given to you, it is not a job for the faint at heart. It is not for someone who doesn’t work 24 hours a day.

Jacobsen: Every person who I met who competes and works in the stables, or as a full-time in the stables, have all been incredibly impressive in their own ways. Some have tragic personal histories and have overcome them. The work ethic is there.

Ballard: People are drawn to horses, maybe, if they aren’t good with people.

Jacobsen: That’s an interesting hypothesis, maybe.

Ballard: A connection with the horse that they can’t have with the person. The turnover in my life, as far as clients who ride with me – and people who work for me, is very high, very. Grooms come and go, there’s students, young kids, even riders. A lot of girls ride until they turn 15 or 16. Then they have a choice to make. Are they going to keep riding, to go skiing, to go hang out with boys, to go to university? At the younger age, it is mostly girls.

If a teenager sticks through that stage, maybe, they’re not that social. They don’t love going to the parties on the weekend. Or they struggle with being in a school, in girl gangs. They like horses. They hang out with horses. Then they create a friend group, which they didn’t think they could have in school because they have a common interest with other kids in horses. Maybe, they don’t want to go to university.

They have to work for a living, so they become a groom. Maybe, they want to go to law school, but they don’t have enough money. So, they groom on the weekends. The turnover of people who work in the industry versus me is high, because not everyone is a lifer.

Jacobsen: What do you attribute the endurance to?

Ballard: Mine?

Jacobsen: Yes!

Ballard: I think I’m a crazy person. I just have more energy than most people.

Jacobsen: How many hours a week are you working?

Ballard: Oh! I don’t even want to count!

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Ballard: October, November, December, all of October, all of November, first two weeks of December, I was never in the same place for more than one week.

Jacobsen: That’s a lot.

Ballard: I was back in Florida for a week at a time before I went somewhere else. For three months, basically, I was never in one place for more than a week. By the time I came home from Geneva, I had 7 suitcases packed. I sent one home from California. I sent one home from Vegas. I sent this one with the horses. My garage was an explosion of suitcases.

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Ballard: I unpacked every suitcase, but one. I don’t know where all these clothes are going to go. We are gypsies. We live on the road. I went from California to Geneva. I had a bathing suit and the Lululemon puffy jacket that went to my ankles. You never know where you’re going to be. You take your passport with you everywhere.

Because, at a moment’s notice, you can go to Europe and not expect to, “You need to try a horse.” We are high energy people in general.  We don’t need the structure of 9-5 and weekends off. We thrive on this crazy lifestyle. We get to see the world. But yes, most of us are a little bit crazy.

Jacobsen: In spite of the endurance and the affirmation of doing it, whatever “it” is at the time, what moments in your career have you ever felt a halt internally, almost as if, ‘I can’t do this,” or a feeling of “I don’t have enough in me”?

Ballard: I think just the summer I got hurt, which was 2013. I broke my collar bone and my shoulder joint. I shattered my scapula. I was out for 16 weeks. There was a minute, where I was walking around; I was teaching riding lessons. I was going to the horse shows. It is the only time in my life where I hadn’t.

There was a minute. I was like, “I don’t need to ride to make money. I don’t need ever need to get back on a horse to make money. I can teach. I can give clinics. But I don’t have to do that. If I don’t do that, then I won’t ever be hurt like this again.” That lasted a minute until I got back on a horse again. Then it was over.

I think, any time you’re hurt. You’re down anyways. I came back from that stronger than ever. I came back from the injury. Two years later, I was on a team. I hadn’t been on a team in 10 years. Maybe, it was the reset that I needed to figure out what I wanted to do for the rest of my life. I don’t feel that, not yet, anyways.

Jacobsen: When you were a kid, as many Canadian kids do, they write careers that they wanted when they were younger, what they thought they wanted to pursue in the maturity of a child’s mind. Do you recall what those career choices would have been for you?

Ballard: I don’t think there was ever a question.

Jacobsen: Why did you focus on jumping, by the way?

Ballard: That’s the sport that my grandpa was captain of the Canadian team. So, I guess, it is in my blood.

Footnotes

[1] Canadian Show Jumping Veteran.

[2] Individual Publication Date: June 22, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/ballard-1; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2022: https://in-sightpublishing.com/insight-issues/.

[3] Image Credit: Jump Media.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

The Greenhorn Chronicles 11: Kailin Howard on Horse Ownership and Care

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/06/22

Abstract

Kailin Howard is a horse owner and assistant trainer at Reaching Strides Equestrian Centre. She discusses: horses; first horse; factors to consider when buying a first horse; get a horse to learn the basics; earliest dreams; the importance of the social activity; build rapport with a client and with clientele; important lessons; bottom-up care; the industry; the stewardship of Nadine Bollig; student-teacher relationship; the competitions; horse trainer for a living; and involved with equestrianism.

Keywords: equestrianism, equine, horses, Kailin Howard, Nova Scotia, Reaching Strides Equestrian Centre, trainer.

The Greenhorn Chronicles 11: Kailin Howard on Horse Ownership and Care

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citations after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: How did you get interested in horses?

Kailin Howard[1],[2]*: I’ve loved horses for as long as I can remember. They were my favourite animal as a child and even as an adult I get that excited feeling when I drive by a field and see them grazing. The little girl inside me still goes “Look, horses!” My parents made my dreams come true when I was 8 and put me in lessons and I’ve been hooked ever since. I’m 29 now and the dream is still very much alive.

Jacobsen: When did you purchase your first horse?

Howard: I bought my first horses when I was 21. I had been leasing and showing one of my coach’s horses for a few years at that point and he was the horse I had always wanted. I ended up purchasing him and his pasture companion, a miniature, as a package.

Jacobsen: What are the factors to consider when buying a first horse compared to a second, third, etc., horse? Things like financials, age, quality, breed, pedigree, etc.

Howard: Some major things to consider are just the environment you are providing. Do I have adequate shelter, food, water, and space for them to move? Horses are also a herd animal; they don’t thrive when they are alone. So, when buying that first horse, you also have to consider the fact that you’ll need companionship for it. Or will you board it at a facility? A huge issue we’re having in Nova Scotia right now is that there is a major vet and farrier shortage. So, is there access to emergency medical care? Can my horse get regular trimmings? Finances are, of course, a big consideration; horses are not a cheap animal to have. The older they get the more care they’ll obviously need so in the long term; can you support that horse through every stage of its life and through the problems those stages may have? Pedigree is absolutely something great to search through if you have access to that information. Medical histories, neurological issues you may encounter, all better to know that ahead of purchasing. Picking the right horse for you and where you are at or want to be is crucial. For example, I wouldn’t purchase a horse trained for show jumping to be my cattle penning horse. Get the horse that’s suited to your level of horsemanship. Consult with your coach, trainer, vet, farrier. Use the resources available to you and get those professional opinions.

Jacobsen: How do you get a horse to learn the basics of what a rider needs them to do?

Howard: The basics in getting a horse to understand what I need them to do for me always starts on the ground. Horses rely a lot on body language and reading energy. They’re a flight animal, so training them to go against those natural instincts is not started by throwing a saddle on and climbing up. They react to pressures and a feeling, they’re extremely intuitive. You’ve likely heard the term “horse whispering,” which is both comical and kind of accurate. You can say “go to the right” all day and a horse is not going to move, so you have to communicate with a language they understand, which sort of looks like you’re ‘whispering’ to them. I use a series of exercises on the ground to get them to understand the give and take of pressure, so that when I get to the saddle and I ask them to go to the right with my body; they have an idea of what it is I’m asking them to do. That’s very summarized! Training some takes longer than others, even the basics, can vary greatly from horse to horse.

Jacobsen: What were your earliest dreams with horses as an early equestrian?

Howard: Just being around these animals was enough for me, I never had specific dreams in mind. I was just obsessed with all thing’s horses. My biggest goals once I started riding were mainly jumping related. I thought the older girls were so cool and had no fear when they were doing a course and I wanted to be able to do what they did. They were always riding multiple or different horses as well and I remember wanting that confidence and that knowledge to adjust to each horse just like them.

Jacobsen: What is the importance of the social activity and aspect of equestrianism? I notice this with women equestrians, trainers and clientele. When tacking up, just small chit-chatter is huge, it’s not only a hobby or preparation for competition. It’s a social club.

Howard: It really is! My closest friends are all horse people. The equestrian world in Nova Scotia is fairly small, so everyone pretty well knows everyone; and it’s not hard to get connected to others if you start asking around. You’ve got friends near and far so when we meet up at shows or events it could be the first time you’ve seen that person in years; and it’s like you talked to them yesterday. It’s very timeless in that sense. It’s also a great way to bounce ideas around business wise or for your own personal equestrian journey. Horse people are a different breed; it doesn’t really matter what might necessarily be going on in your personal lives, when equestrians get together you all have a huge common interest that connects you, regardless of even what discipline you are in. We also can’t seem to stop talking about horses. You throw a couple horse people in a room and they’re going to be going on and on for the next few hours.

Jacobsen: How do you build rapport with a client and with clientele as an assistant trainer?

Howard: Staying open, honest and friendly to questions, concerns or any discussions they may want to bring up. Having just as much patience to the learning experience with the clients as we do the animals, a lot of the clients I’ve met over the last few years need to learn the questions I’m asking the horse just as much as the horse does. We don’t believe in just training the horse, but the clients as well.  We can teach the horse how to carry the rider or work on whatever the issue may be but if the client doesn’t understand how to ask the question, how does the horse know how to answer? Like having all the power tools you need to build a house, but no idea how to use them. If the horse has all the answers, but the rider isn’t asking them correctly then that leads to frustration; and you could be taking more steps back than you did forward. Which then leads to an upset client, it comes back on the trainer. Having the client be a part of the training process is critical in my opinion, it sets both horse and rider up for a more successful relationship in the future.

Jacobsen: What are some of the more important lessons taught by the more senior trainers?

Howard: To have patience no matter how you’re feeling. Your feelings don’t matter, you have to leave them outside the ring. Horses can feel your emotions by reading your energy and body language. If you’re already frustrated or anxious, the horse thinks they have a reason to feel the same thing, they mimic us. They look to us for security; this comes back to the herd mentality. If I’m worked up, then they think they should be as well. The old saying goes, “If you act like you have all day, it will take 5 minutes. If you act like you have 5 minutes, it will take all day”. All horses have a learning curve, just like people do. One horse might catch on faster to what it is I’m asking than another horse will, and where one is better at math, the other is better at science, you know? You also may need to ask the question differently, because that horse doesn’t understand even though the last 10 horses did. And just when you think you know it all or you’ve seen it all, a horse comes along to remind you that you haven’t. Stay humble! The learning never stops, there is always something new to learn or a different method to acquire.

Jacobsen: For those who don’t know, what is the bottom-up care required for taking care of a horse? I’ve most consistently heard of equestrianism as a “lifestyle.” In that, one must live this day-in, day-out to properly care for the horse(s) and maintain standards as a rider.

Howard: There is more maintenance in taking care of horses than people realize but there are 3 basic things they need. Food, water, shelter. Some horses are what we call more easy keepers than others. Some just have that more fit physique no matter how much they eat and others just breathe on grass and they’ll be on the thicker side. Having good hay or forage is the most important, horses are grazers, so they eat constantly, having access to forage 24/7 is the most ideal to prevent health issues, such as ulcers and colic. That’s also considering a horse is getting exercise as well, because eating too much can also create health issues. You may need to supply a grain regiment if the quality of your forage isn’t fantastic because they’ll be lacking on a lot of nutrients and vitamins. Access to lots of fresh water, helps keep their guts moving and processing that food, so they don’t colic. Finally shelter, horses are tough, but they need that shelter to get a reprieve from the elements. Depending on the climate of your location they may need to be blanketed if they don’t grow the best coat. It’s more desired to let the horse live as naturally as possible, but human intervention over the last 100 years has changed that and some horses are just not built for that ‘natural’ way of life. They need their feet trimmed around every 6-8 weeks, some grow a better foot than others, so depending on that and the level of exercise they are getting; they may need to be trimmed less or more often and some may need shoes. Medical checkups every year for teeth and vaccinations. This is all just the base essentials that they need.  The tip of the horse care iceberg.

Jacobsen: How does the industry look to you, at the moment?

Howard: The horse world can be sort of “cliquey”, there are a lot of equestrians that think their equestrian lifestyle is the one and only lifestyle, but I find that’s slowly changing. The world is getting bigger and there are more options for equestrians in NS to choose from. As in what kind of relationship or discipline they want to embark on, people are becoming more open to trying different things. I’m hopeful for what’s to come in the future in that aspect. Something I’m seeing a lot of unfortunately are people buying horses with almost none or very little prior horse experience. It sounds like a lovely dream to own a horse, but it’s not just a matter of giving them food and water every day. You could have a horse that is harder to handle and end up getting seriously hurt. You panic, sell the horse, and the next person gets hurt or the horse gets hurt, or that horse gets shuffled around for the next 10 years and has a very erratic life. It’s a story I’ve seen too many times over the last couple years: Getting a horse is not like getting a dog. They NEED training and if you don’t have any, then you need training too. That’s such a no brainer for me. To not only keep people safe, but to keep the horses safe as well.

Jacobsen: Also, how did you come under the stewardship of Nadine Bollig?

Howard: I’ve known Nadine since I was 11, when I started taking lessons at her stable just outside Antigonish. When I became a more advanced student, I rode a few ‘green’ horses for her to help them further along with their training, mostly putting some miles on them. I also worked for her as a farm hand from age 16-20. When she relocated to her new place about 10 years ago, I ended up buying my show horse from her and we stayed in contact even though at the time I couldn’t be a full time student or employee anymore. In 2020 she asked me if I wanted some part time work putting some exercise rides on a couple horses for her and now here we are!

Jacobsen: How has your student-teacher relationship evolved over time?

Howard: We work really well together. I’ve known her for so long and she’s been a friend to me for years; we really balance each other out and we pride ourselves on being honest with each other. Over the last year, we’ve been reinventing the business plan and the goal is providing a facility for what we’re calling horse lessons as opposed to just riding lessons. Helping people build relationships with horses whether that’s something they want to do in the saddle or just on the ground. Nadine’s biggest passion is training and when I started riding those greenies for her at 15, I found a passion for it as well. It’s come full circle, the horses taught me and now I’m teaching them. It’s very rewarding! Nadine has been passing all of her knowledge onto me ever since I was little and we’re also gaining some new skills together, she’s given me this opportunity to learn more and she has pushed me to really believe in my abilities, so I’m very grateful for her.

Jacobsen: What have been some of the competitions you’ve taken part?

Howard: I’ve been showing since I was 12, mostly competing in local shows and fairs. I’ve done a few higher-level jumping competitions, but nothing seriously on the circuit. Mainly hunter/jumper shows. I have a healthy fear of jumping, but also a love for it. It’s quite addicting holding on for dear life on the back of a 1500 lb animal running at obstacles.

Jacobsen: How do you intend to become a long-term horse trainer for a living?

Howard: Living in rural Nova Scotia and trying to live the dream of an equestrian takes a lot of balance. It’s not easy. Stables are far in between, and every facility offers something different. Training and looking after horses is my dream job and I still have that, but living where I live you have to have a job that supports the dream job. Nadine’s given me that chance by letting me become a part of her business, letting me work with a few of her clients and helping me build up my skills and methods. She wants to see me succeed and she’s very supportive. She’s always thinking of the horses and if there’s another trainer out there available to the horses and the people who need them than she’s happy to help me on my journey. I’m also always open to learning, you have to be, I think, to be a reputable horse trainer. There’s ALWAYS something new to learn. I hope one day, further down the road, to open my own little barn and facility where others can come to learn.

Jacobsen: How can people get involved with equestrianism or with you?

Howard: Research a stable that has a program that works for you. Ask around, find out what different barns offer and decide based on your level and what you want to learn. Be honest about what you know and what you want to learn, even if you’re starting from scratch, there’s no shame in it! Everyone starts somewhere. If it’s something you really want, the enthusiasm is very appreciated. I operate mainly out of Reaching Strides, but I have travelled locally to help people with small issues out of their own backyards. I’m not an expert by any means, but I have a strong intuition. I’ve worked with many, many different horsey personalities, so I have confidence in my own skills and if I don’t know the answer; I’m not shy to admit it, and I’ll work on it and get back to you.

Jacobsen: Thank you for the opportunity and your time, Kailin.

Howard: Thank you for the opportunity, Scott!

Footnotes

[1] Horse Owner, Assistant Trainer, Reaching Strides Equestrian Centre.

[2] Individual Publication Date: June 22, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/howard; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2022: https://in-sightpublishing.com/insight-issues/.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Actuarial Sciences 1: Erik Haereid, M.Sc., on Actuarial Sciences and Actuaries (1)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/06/22

Abstract

Erik Haereid, born in 1963, grew up in Oslo, Norway. He studied mathematics, statistics and actuarial science at the University of Oslo in the 1980s and 90s, and is educated as an actuary. He has worked over thirty years as an actuary, in several insurance companies, as actuarial consultant, middle manager and broker. In addition, he has worked as an academic director (insurance) in a business school (BI). Now, he runs his own actuarial consulting company with two other actuaries. He is a former member of Mensa, and is a member of some high IQ societies (e.g., Olympiq, Glia, Generiq, VeNuS and WGD). He discusses: Actuarial Sciences; an actuary; the risks calculated by an actuary; a governmental or an individual basis; the requirements for becoming an actuary; the requirements for maintaining certification as an actuary; organizations; and the reputation of Actuarial Sciences.

Keywords: Actuarial Sciences, actuary, Erik Haereid, mathematics, statistics.

Actuarial Sciences 1: Erik Haereid, M.Sc., on Actuarial Sciences and Actuaries (1)

*Please see the references, footnotes, and citations, after the interview, respectively.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: You are the only person who I know with an expertise in Actuarial Sciences, except a distant family member, apparently, if I remember vaguely correctly. Anyhow, I reached out to do an educational series on this because I like working you. You’re knowledgeable and give solid responses to questions. You think about things. So, first session, is boiler plate stuff, defining terms in an accessible manner: What are Actuarial Sciences?

Erik Haereid[1],[2]*: As you say, I don’t like one or two sentence answers if I have more on my mind. Actuarial science could be defined by a few words, because the essence is mathematics and theoretical statistics on an M.Sc.-level, with additional education into insurance-related mathematics, relevant probability theories, some economics and finance theory, and computer science. The latter two is “new”; I didn’t study finance theories or computer science when I did this in the 1980’s. Before the 1980’s there were, at least in Norway, more economics and insurance business-related topics included in the education. The actuaries’ task or aim was not only to know about the fundamental math behind the many calculations of premiums and reserves, but also to manage to drive an insurance company as consultants and executives. Since this seemed to be a too big task for one education and profession, one focused educationally on the foundation of the insurance business; learn how to assess the right premiums and reserves.

I have to add that in many countries, actuarial sciences are also connected to the asset-side, creating statistical models that maximizes pension funds and other types of investments. Traditionally, and especially in my country Norway, actuarial science has primarily been about the liability-side of the business. Since actuarial science is about analyzing risks, actuaries are also used in other types of businesses than the insurance business, e.g., in general risk management.

So, actuarial science is primarily about insurance engineering. It’s the evolution of different mathematical methods used to create the best possible premiums and reserves. It’s also about stability; no one wants the premiums to deviate too much from a standard. It’s about trust. It’s about setting the premiums as right, i.e., low, as possible to meet the customers need. And it’s about sharing risks; dividing the insured into decent and political accepted groups, which both are acceptable for the people but also subject for optimal mathematical structures. E.g., it’s both political accepted and mathematical possible to divide cars into “expensive, new ones” and “not so expensive, old ones”, and people concerning life insurances into “people with low risk for death” and “people with high risk for death”. A 52 year old accepts that a 25 year old pays less for his life insurance. And because of enough data (experience) and good mathematical structures we can draw a life table with good estimates of probability for death, for each age.

The challenge has not only been finding the best mathematical methods, but to satisfy dramatic changes into certain risks (e.g., that people live much longer now than only a few decades ago) and establishing new risk factors where one so far has operated with assumptions (e.g., making interest rates stochastic within the insurance products).

For example, the old saving products (pensions, annuities and the like) contained some kind of death risk in the annuity. E.g., if you saved money to your pension, and died before you got some or all your savings, the insurance company kept the money or some of it (other saving products were the other way around; you got more than your savings if one died, and for that you paid a higher premium). This was a part of the product; in return the insured paid less premium. Most people didn’t accept this reverse insurance business, and wanted the bereaved to get exactly the savings if the insured died. But this is not insurance; this is bank without any economic risk if death. To label it “pension”, you have to include some kind of economic risk that you as an insured want to share with others. Then the insurance business constructed products that was close to bank savings, but had a small (but big enough for the authorities) internal risk factor that qualified them as “pensions” or the like; not a clean bank product.

If you don’t have any clue about the risk, you will for sure raise the premiums to an unacceptable level for the customers, avoiding bankruptcy. But then you don’t have a business; then people would create some sort of self-insurance. Insured events are in their nature random, or stochastic, which is a more common used word in probability theory, which is the basis of actuarial science. Its purpose is to find procedures for setting the optimal probability for an event you don’t know where, when and if will occur, and through that give it a value. Remember, insurance is usually (excludes annuities and saving products) about paying money which you hope you don’t get back.

Jacobsen: What is an actuary?

Haereid: An actuary is an insurance engineer; a person that have studied actuarial science and has some qualifications (usually nearby a Master of Science); an expert in building and use the mathematical framework to assess risks.

Actuaries are traditionally involved in the liability-side of the insurance business, ensuring that the single premiums and the total reserves are enough to fulfill the insurance unit’s obligations towards the insured. It’s basically two types of actuaries (two branches); actuaries that specializes in life insurance, annuities, pensions and so on (persons) and those whose discipline is casualty insurance (non-life).

My impression is that actuaries traditionally are more involved in the total insurance business in countries like UK and USA, than in Norway and many other countries, where specialization is more common. I think this has to do with the specific culture. In USA, the actuary profession is seen as one of the most important and desirable ones, while in Norway most people don’t know what an actuary is.

Jacobsen: What are the risks calculated by an actuary, often? Those most concerning or pertinent to the public with an interest in determining risk.

Haereid: There are different kinds of insurance-related risks, depending of which country you live in and what kind of insurance company you use. There are several risk classes and risk types, and one can read about these elsewhere. I will mention a few types, that may be of public interest.

Usually, the risks are as mentioned divided into two segments; life and non-life risks. Life risks, or person-related risks if you want, are typically death, disability, health-related risks, injuries, survival. Non-life risks are everything else; insured things or actions; property like buildings, vehicles, ships and so on, and actions like job-related mistakes (e.g., advices, consultant services, lawyers etc.) with economic consequences. A risk is linked to what kind of damage the life/thing is exposed to, the cost, and the probability behind that occurrence. Obviously, we always talk about a stochastic, uncertain future event. But the layman can use empirical data to say something about any such risk; you don’t have to use complex methods to say something about the risk for car damage or house fire. There is a lot of information on the Internet that would give everyone some ideas about risks. Life tables are probably possible to find and download (I haven’t checked) from different countries and segments of people (like men/women). Then you can say something about the risk part of the premium you pay to your life insurance.

E.g., risk as to car accidents and repair costs. There are several factors and aspects into account, like the model of the car (which steers parameters like how expensive the parts of the car are, and who drive that model (e.g., young risk-taking men drives certain types of cars; in my youth Golf GTI!), where the car is driven (in rural or urban areas), what it is used for (in business or to domestic use) and so on. As to buildings it’s risk factors like location (is it more or less danger for natural catastrophes like wind, water, avalanches and earth quakes), and fire (how are the buildings secured as to electricity and fire), costs (size, material, where and when and so on). You may also take into concern who lives there or uses it, how many and what type of use of the building and so on.

In insurances connected to one’s life, it’s relevant with risks like death, survival and health (e.g., disability). Life tables (death-probabilities) are usually divided into sex and age (risk classes); a woman has less probability dying than a man, and since it’s uncontroversial dividing premiums between men and woman, women pay less for their death insurance than men. The same with age; old people accept that they pay higher premiums for death benefits than young people. You could obviously divide the risks into more and smaller groups and classes, within decent statistical models, but of political and other reasons, one usually doesn’t. E.g., dividing into professions and lifestyles would be mathematically right (it’s clearly a statistical difference in risks for death (like it is for accidents and disability) between certain professions and lifestyles, as showed, e.g., in the movie Along Came Polly).

The risk I am most involved in is risk for survival. That’s the most obscure and amusing one, because it turns the business upside down. Normally you pay a premium in case of an unexpected event where you receive some money. Here you get a discount because the insurance company keep your savings in case of an event (death). It’s about annuities and pensions, and especially important as to lifelong payments (longevity insurances). People live longer, and this is a risk concerning pension payments. In Norway, in the insurance business, we strengthened the premiums and risk formulas in 2013, adapted to the fact that people live much longer now. The social security system “Folketrygden” (Norway) has gone through severe changes the last few decades, taking into account that people live longer.

In pensions related to employees and work, most companies (worldwide) go, and have gone from, Defined Benefit Pension plans (DBP) to Defined Contribution Pension plans (DCP); to ensure that the company (employer) has cash to fulfill their obligations towards the employees. As to pensions, it’s a huge challenge that we live much longer now than before.

Jacobsen: Are actuaries more often used on a governmental or an individual basis?

Haereid: Most on an individual basis.

Outside the private sector, actuaries are used in developing social security programs and pension schemes for the public, in institutions that supervises the insurance business, they are employed in special governmental institutions like the Financial Supervisory Authority of Norway (Finanstilsynet) and the Norwegian Public Service Fund (Statens Pensjonskasse). In UK you have institutions like the Government Actuary’s Department, and in USA the Social Security Administration, where actuaries are involved.

But most actuaries are employed in the insurance business; in insurance companies or as actuary consultants (as I am).

Jacobsen: What are the requirements for becoming an actuary, e.g., educational attainment/qualifications, formalized tests for certification, etc.?

Haereid: In my and some other countries the basic are mathematics, theoretical statistics (probability theory) and insurance-related mathematics on an M.Sc.-level (in some other countries you need less math and statistics (on a bachelor-level), but more diverse topics like computer science and finance-related mathematics and economics). In addition, there are some economics, financial economics and computer science. The education is comprehensive, and differs some between countries.

In Norway, the education is at universities. Before the 1980’s (when I studied), it was less math and probability theory, and more practical disciplines like economics and business administration. In my time, in the 1980’s, there was primarily mathematics, theoretical statistics and insurance-related mathematics. I have a M.Sc. in math/statistics from the University in Oslo. I didn’t know much about practical insurance before I learned it in my first jobs. But I knew something about how one created the insurance premiums and reserves.

Jacobsen: In Norway, and other countries if applicable, what are the requirements for maintaining certification as an actuary?

Haereid: There are some loose requirements about evolving educationally within topics like computer programming and finance mathematics, but one doesn’t lose one’s actuary title if one drops further education late in life and career; in Norway. (I am not sure about other countries’ practice.) One just loses work opportunities. Old actuaries, like me, fit into other parts of the actuarial realm. We know a lot, which younger actuaries don’t. We have some skills both as to our education and experience through a lot of years, that young actuaries need and don’t get through education or limited practice.

Jacobsen: In Norway, and other countries if applicable, what organizations coordinate, regulate, and standardize, the national and local actuaries, e.g., punish frauds, update community on standards, etc.?

Haereid: The local national actuary associations (e.g., The Norwegian Society of Actuaries; Den Norske Aktuarforening) make guidelines and standards that actuaries should follow. You also have global actuary umbrella associations, like AAE (the Actuarial Association of Europe) and IAA (the International Actuarial Association), which set global standards.

Beyond these there are some variations between countries as to standards, regulations, punishment procedures and so on. In Norway, the overall finance business is supervised by the Financial Supervisory Authority (Finanstilsynet). There are strict rules of what to do and not, including how the mathematical framework shall look like, and that the actuaries fulfill their obligations. E.g., in the early 1990’s I contributed to the mathematical groundwork for a new pension product in Norway, created by the insurance company I then worked for. It was based on old framework, but a lot of the structure was new. Then we had to get acceptance from the Financial Supervisory Authority to sell the new product with its mathematical framework.

If the political environment wants to change any laws concerning insurances, the actuaries are involved both as a consultative body (mainly through the national actuary association) and as contributors to mathematical structures.

Jacobsen: I’m told Actuarial Sciences are highly difficult. A lot of people can’t take the cognitive demands. Is this true? Whether so or not, why is this the reputation of Actuarial Sciences?

Haereid: You have to have the cognitive ability to understand mathematics and statistics up to a certain level (M.Sc.), but you don’t have to have any high IQ beyond that. If you have a dyscalculia but hold a 130 or 150 IQ, you can’t be an actuary, but maybe a genius in other areas.

The reputation is kind of a romantic perception; insurance is quite aware in most adult’s heads. People talk and think about it a lot. Everyone have ideas about sharing risk, and that there has to be some principles behind the procedures that evolves into what they pay. Because people know something about this, they tend to admire or respect even more those who knows this area fully. Maybe it’s something like that. It’s the same as when students look up to their professors, but the professors’ children don’t. It awakes the curiosity about what is on the other side of the mountains you see in front of you, but not about what you don’t see behind you. And because it’s quite difficult and one need time to evolve this kind of knowledge, and it’s not possible to explain in a simple way to the laymen, people tend to admire it even more. Another reason could be that most actuaries emphasize their theoretical background when they work and deal with ordinary employees and customers in the insurance realm, in the sense that actuaries seem like boring and dry human types, and that this is expressed by actuaries as an identification they get some positive from. Most actuaries are less boring and theoretical than most people think, but the actuaries themselves don’t want to reveal this “normal” trait!

Footnotes

[1] Member, World Genius Directory. Actuary.

[2] Individual Publication Date: June 22, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/actuarial-sciences-1; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Olav Hoel Dørum on Philosophies, Love, Life, and Meaning: Former Ombudsman, Mensa Norway (2)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/06/22

Abstract

Olav Hoel Dørum was the Ombudsman for Mensa Norway. He discusses: social philosophy; economic philosophy; political philosophy; metaphysics; worldview-encompassing philosophical system; meaning in life; meaning externally derived; an afterlife; the mystery and transience of life; and love.

Keywords: economics, life, love, Mensa Norway, metaphysics, Norwegian, Olav Hoel Dørum, philosophy.

Conversation with Olav Hoel Dørum on Philosophies, Love, Life, and Meaning: Former Ombudsman, Mensa Norway (2)

*Please see the references, footnotes, and citations, after the interview, respectively.*

*Interview conducted January 2, 2021.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: What social philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Olav Hoel Dørum[1],[2]*: Since this is the first question I will explain how I understand these topics so the reader has a reference throughout the interview. Various directions in philosophy, economy and political ideologies each represents a complete set of instructions on how to relate to the world. While many have elements highly valuable for different cultures and states, each model is in itself insufficient as humans are too diverse in personality, intelligence and motives to fit in to the often narrow and homogenous mindset and behavior described in the various thought systems.

Almost every philosophy, economical theory and political ideologies are self-referring, meaning that the concept of wrong exists as a contrast to other thought systems. There is no such thing as a defined saturation point in which we have enough capitalism or communism to use those as examples. The only way to validate an idea is to have an external criterion with measurable properties such as longevity, health care, stability and progress – even if this is limited and a somewhat subjective perception of what constitutes a good life. Handling complexity such as moral contradictions requires a level of academic discipline which often is too demanding. People are generally not good at simultaneously holding multiple ideas and values. My focus is on what type of people a mindset produces, rather than the moral and ethical foundation of that mindset. Even when there are no logical incompatibilities one value usually ends up as dominant.

To answer the first question, I would look to the East-Asian cultures which are more organized and collective in nature. They score lower on the both press freedom- and individual choice index, but it does not mean that the society feels unsafe or limiting for the individual. Interesting enough, there are reports suggesting that the perceived social pressure is higher in Norway than in Japan, which sounds contradicting since we have more focus on individual rights. It is easier to implement policies that are for the common good in a culturally and socially homogeneous population. Their culture is more resilient to change, which impedes progress in example LGBT-rights. But as a whole, their work ethic, social conscience, structure and reaction to crisis is admirable.

Jacobsen: What economic philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Dørum: Since income is moderately to strongly related to mental and physical health, including decision-making abilities, we should offer social programs and other benefits to those worse off – offering a predictable and available safety net. Most of the studies are correlation studies, so we cannot say if the variables are a result of a common underlying factor. We know intelligence and personality accounts for a significant proportion of economic success, but the cause is irrelevant in this matter. Poverty, including relative poverty which is a perception rather than objective criteria for wealth, is connected to crime. Income differences could lead to more political instability, segregation and lack of trust in a culturally diverse country. Hence, the social democratic platform seems the most reasonable. I do not advocate socialism, which is governmental controlled means of production, but capitalism with social programs known as “welfare capitalism”. The culture must come first, then the economic model. When a new economic model is introduced, there will be a gradually transition until it comes at a halt and the result will inevitably be a corruption of the ideal. After the fall of the Soviet Union, Russian capitalism became oligarchy. In America, capitalism has grown into corporatism. A political ideology alone is not enough.

Jacobsen: What political philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Dørum: Distribution of power through democracy. I do not argue from an enlightened mass, but solely as a preventative measure against the centralization of power. It’s tempting to see the advantages of the Chinese one-party-state, but they are also a highly advanced dictatorship. John Rawls idea of “Justice as fairness” is inspiring, but goes too far in his pursuit of inequality by disruption the distribution of wealth in such a way that we get a bloated bureaucracy and a too slow growing economy. To build a society we all would like to live in if we in advance do not know who we will be, is an excellent mantra. Most people seem to approach such questions with the assumption that their success would be within reach with a different set of abilities.

Jacobsen: What metaphysics makes some sense to you, even the most workable sense to you?

Dørum: I have a weak spot for Immanuel Kant. Kant argues that our cognition has two components, one sensory and one of the rational mind. True cognition is only possible by combining these two. It sounds like the diplomatic middle road doesn’t it, but it’s not hard to find branches that put too much emphasis on, or relies on, the concept of free will – such as laissez-faire capitalism and objectivism. The concept of not having free will is foreign for many of us. I like the part of Hume’s thinking that unites freedom, moral responsibility and soft determinism. Philosophical systems that speak highly of free often disregards, or do not seem to understand, how perception is shaped by ideology. Even our ability to tell colors apart, time perception and simple numerical understanding (multitudes and magnitudes) are influenced by language, three abilities we assume are determined by biology and not language. There is no conflict between lack of free will and responsibility, just as an action often leads to a predictable effect. Choose your environmental input and parents with care.

Jacobsen: What worldview-encompassing philosophical system makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Dørum: I’m so boring it’s unbelievable, humanism. Most animals that form packs seem to have a sense of fairness. Our amygdala, a cluster of nerves, which is a part of the limbic system – responds quite similar to psychological and physical threats. Sense of vulnerability, even purely philosophical, can trigger a fight, flight or freeze response. We get a more harmonic and stable world that way if people’s sense of safety is kept intact.

Jacobsen: What provides meaning in life for you?

Dørum: There is a Norwegian poem called “Livsveven” (The loom of life) by an anonymous writer. “Not until the loom has stilled, and the shuttle has come to a halt, will God pull the drapes aside, and let us see. That the dark threads so as well as the bright ribbons, together formed the patterned in our Masters mighty hand”. It is difficult to translate the poem in such a way that it recreates the feelings I get when I read it in Norwegian. I get filled with a warm darkness that fills me with peace. My answer would be “depth and dimension”. With age, I can appreciate the difficulties I have gone through, and the painful experiences I have had. I do not know if a more streamlined life would be a happier one. I now feel a deeper contentment. I have a job I love, well established and an active social life. To come to the point where you no longer fear death too much.

Jacobsen: Is meaning externally derived, internally generated, both, or something else?

Dørum: Internally generated. If someone has found a meaning with life it seems like they either have genes that promotes development of a certain mindset, or that they have, unknowingly or deliberate, practiced some form of cognitive therapy or metacognition. Most people do as they are genetically instructed and socially encouraged to do, be reasonably successful, socially accepted and find a partner. It doesn’t seem to give them any form of meaning.

Jacobsen: Do you believe in an afterlife? If so, why, and what form? If not, why not?

Dørum: I do not believe in an afterlife. There is no reason why our consciousness would somehow be transferred when the biological processes are terminated. Maybe in a parallel universe as a copy, but nothing religious.

Jacobsen: What do you make of the mystery and transience of life?

Dørum: Life as we define it are chemical reactions and neural activity. Our perception of time is adjusted to our biological life span. One day we might reach and average lifespan of 120-140 years and that would seem normal, or centuries using various technology to keep our consciousness intact. I am sure our perception and understanding of time will adjust accordingly. If anything, I would say our current time span is highly convenient. It’s long enough for humans to achieve ground-breaking discoveries, while not so long that social and political changes stagnates.

Jacobsen: What is love to you? 

Dørum:  A rare and deep emotional connection with another person. Usually a form of completion and with the desire to form a partnership. It’s a part of our emotional spectre. Some people rarely feel love, and some may never have truly experienced it.

Footnotes

[1] Former Ombudsman, Mensa Norway.

[2] Individual Publication Date: July 22, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/dorum-2; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

The Greenhorn Chronicles 8: Rachael Dent-Flynn on Flar Equine Experience

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/06/15

Abstract

Rachael Dent-Flynn is the Owner/Lead Facilitator of Flar Equine Experience. Flar Equine Experience facilitates life skills and relationships alongside horses. Dent-Flynn’s background is having a lived experience of trauma, coming out into the LGBTQ2+ community, & PTSD from volunteer firefighting. Knowing the lack of effective affordable resources for her own mental health journey, she wanted to be able to offer a healing experience that could help someone along their journeys. She discusses: experiences and training; horsemanship in Nova Scotia; Owner and Senior Facilitator of Flar Equine Experience; tasks and responsibilities; horse industry in Nova Scotia; resources; a mental health service; facilitate life skills and relationships; anxiety, depression, PTSD, impatience, and building trusting relationships; working on the aforementioned personal difficulties; people become involved in the horse industry in Nova Scotia; equine therapy; assisting veterans; statistics on veterans in Nova Scotia; clinical research and popular feedback; narratives coming to Flar Equine Experience; meaningful narratives; and support and/or become involved in Flar Equine Experience.

Keywords: Equine Assisted Learning Facilitator, Equine Assisted Personal Development Coach, Flar Equine Experience, Nova Scotia, Rachael Dent-Flynn.

The Greenhorn Chronicles 8: Rachael Dent-Flynn on Flar Equine Experience

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citations after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: What sorts of experiences and training were part of becoming a more mature and experienced equestrian?

Rachael Dent-Flynn[1],[2]: I got certified as an Equine Assisted Learning Facilitator & Equine Assisted Personal Development Coach; however, with horses, I’m always learning & growing as new methods are presented.

Jacobsen: How prominent is horsemanship in Nova Scotia? Most of Canadian equestrianism seems centralized in British Columbia, Alberta, and Ontario.

Dent-Flynn: It’s way behind the other provinces you’ve mentioned…however for no other reason than education and awareness of the effectiveness on mental health being in the presence of horses.

Jacobsen: You are the Owner and Senior Facilitator of Flar Equine Experience. Did you create it, too?

Dent-Flynn: Yes.

Jacobsen: What are the tasks and responsibilities involved with the ownership and senior facilitation work of Flar Equine Experience?

Dent-Flynn: Absolutely everything from horse care, welfare, and maintenance to running all the programs/sessions and then all the business side of things.

Jacobsen: Flar Equine Experience is based in Hubley, NS. What is the state of the horse industry in Nova Scotia?

Dent-Flynn: It’s in need of provincial or federal recognition just like the other provinces. We have enough organizations doing it all for the right reasons, and for the best life for the horses and humans alike.

Jacobsen: What resources exist in Hubley to help with the maintenance, even growth, of Flar Equine Experience?

Dent-Flynn: Not many at all.

Jacobsen: On social media, Facebook specifically, it is listed as a mental health service. Why focus on mental health as the equine-based service of Flar Equine Experience?

Dent-Flynn: Absolutely, because now more than ever everyone needs to know the true empowering effectiveness skills you can gain from being in the presence of the horse that can then transfer into your own challenges in struggling away from the arena.

Jacobsen: You facilitate life skills and relationships at Flar Equine Experience. How is this done, in a rather unique way?

Dent-Flynn: Yes, we sure do, through objectively driven skill based structured obstacles that you & your horse will navigate through together.

Jacobsen: If we can talk about it, please, the horses have helped with your anxiety, depression, PTSD, impatience, and building trusting relationships. How do animals speak to this for you?

Dent-Flynn: They have a natural ability to have us look within in the present moments as we navigate through the obstacles in the arena. While doing so, it brings all these challenges to the forefront where I couldn’t hide or bullshit my way through it or shut down and try and avoid it. So, in those instant moments, I had to recognize what was going on with me, name it, and then navigate differently through the obstacles with the horses. When I did that, it was both successful for my own confidence of doing it with a 1,200lb animal, but it was instant validation from the horse’s willingness to be right alongside me! Holy shit, totally empowering, and for me, that was my break-awake because years of talk therapy never provided that opportunity or feeling.

Jacobsen: How have horses, particularly, helped with working on the aforementioned personal difficulties?

Dent-Flynn: The skills learned alongside in the arena while navigating through challenges with a 1200lb teacher are able to be gained in a safe, non-judgemental, healing environment….which in turn transfers into challenging situations away from the arena, where I caught myself taking a second to breath, remembering how I dealt with it in the arena, and then navigating through it differently in daily life situations to live a more positive, confident overall better life.

Jacobsen: How can people become involved in the horse industry in Nova Scotia?

Dent-Flynn: Many ways, volunteering is always amazing, can never have too many hands helping around the barn. Fundraising for local equine organizations as we aren’t funded currently, get the word out there by word of mouth and lastly is education and awareness of all the places doing phenomenal healing with horses.

Jacobsen: What is equine therapy?

Dent-Flynn: Simply, it is experiential learning providing life skills and personal development opportunities alongside horses that transfers into all other avenues of daily life.

Jacobsen: How does Flar Equine Experience apply this to assisting veterans?

Dent-Flynn: Call, email, social media or drop by!

Jacobsen: What are the statistics on veterans in Nova Scotia?

Dent-Flynn: 1,300 are war service veterans, 385,000 are Canadian Armed Forces, regular & primary veterans.

Jacobsen: What has been the clinical research and popular feedback on equine therapy from veterans coming into and out of Flar Equine Experience?

Dent-Flynn: That they have never felt so safe, not judged & that they can still be hyper vigilant, but it’s in a different more positive way & they have something to continuously look forward to.

Jacobsen: Veterans remain an interesting portion of Canada. Both honoured and venerated, though neglected and impoverished in numerous ways. We honour them with ceremonies and days of celebration. We venerate them with medals and words of affirmation. We neglect them with lack of various resources. We impoverish them with lies about honour and dignity in, in truth, having them as hired killers for the State, who have PTSD, damaged bodies and minds, and tensions on their social and familial ties in the midst of service – even after service. How do you navigate these various narratives coming to Flar Equine Experience?

Dent-Flynn: We couldn’t agree more & we love this question because we are doing everything we can at FLAR to be the “catcher” of those who feel they have been failed by everyone else. This is a common theme to this day and many times the first session conversation. However, the beauty of the horses that ends up most times in the vet becoming very emotional is that the horses can’t lie (they aren’t made up to) and they don’t judge, which instantly is overwhelmingly positive because most haven’t felt that supported directly or indirectly in many, many years.

Jacobsen: What are the more meaningful narratives of success coming out of equine therapy through Flar Equine Experience for you?

Dent-Flynn: When individuals can feel totally confident in articulating their once seen as weak challenged stories of struggles into telling their journey in hopes to help someone else not feel alone in their struggles.

Jacobsen: How can people support and/or become involved in Flar Equine Experience?

Dent-Flynn: Many ways, share all the social media things, volunteer, help fundraisers or find sponsors, help with marketing & promotions for awareness and keep the conversations going!

Jacobsen: Thank you for the opportunity and your time, Rachael.

Dent-Flynn: Thank you so much.

Footnotes

[1] Owner/Lead Facilitator, Flar Equine Experience

[2] Individual Publication Date: June 15, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/dent-flynn; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2022: https://in-sightpublishing.com/insight-issues/.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Hindemburg Melão Jr. and Tor Arne Jørgensen on A.I., I.Q., and the Future: Founder, Sigma Society; 2019 Genius of the Year – Europe, World Genius Directory (1)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/06/15

Abstract

Hindemburg Melão Jr. founded the Sigma Society and the Sigma Test. Tor Arne Jørgensen is a member of 50+ high-I.Q. societies. They discuss: high-level IQ; Elon Musk; a multiplanetary race; NASA and SpaceX; the next 100 years; AI; the future prospects of man; genius; and the basis of AI.

Keywords: A.I., Elon Musk, Hindemburg Melão Jr., I.Q., Leonardo da Vinci, NASA, Sigma Society, Sigma Test, SpaceX, Tor Arne Jørgensen.

Hindemburg Melão Jr. and Tor Arne Jørgensen on A.I., I.Q., and the Future: Founder, Sigma Society; 2019 Genius of the Year – Europe, World Genius Directory (1)

*Please see the references, footnotes, and citations, after the interview, respectively.*

*Updated June 17, 2022.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Can high-level IQ tests be legitimized to the same extent as professional supervised tests?

Hindemburg Melão Jr.[1]*: I think this question was partially answered in the preamble to the interview, but there are a few details I would like to add.

International Mathematical Olympiads use relatively primitive methods of assessment compared to psychometric methods, but the content of the questions is sufficiently difficult for the levels at which they are intended to assess. The types of problems are not the same as what a mathematician would need to solve, but they do share some necessary cognitive processes. Under these conditions, scores proved to be good predictors of intellectual production in the future, including for important awards such as the Fields Medal. The charts below summarize this situation:

Source: https://ramanujan.xyz/read-our-imo-research/

Psychometric tests use sophisticated standardization methods, much superior to those used in the IMO, and have good construct validity up to 2 standard deviations above the mean, and an adequate level of difficulty up to 2 standard deviations above the mean. But for higher levels the construct validity and the difficulty level are not adequate. As a result, Terman’s studies showed good predictions for academic and professional/financial production, but failed at the highest levels, even showing a negative correlation.

This suggests that while the quality of standardization is important, it is less important than the quality of items in terms of “appropriate difficulty” and “appropriate construct validity” at the levels at which it is intended to be measured.

So for the 70 to 130 range, clinical tests are actually better than hrIQts because they use larger samples and the standardization methods are generally more sophisticated. However, for scores above 130, hrIQts better meet the questions about level of difficulty and construct validity, which are apparently more important criteria for predicting remarkable results in real-world problems.

In addition, some hrIQts are standardized with higher quality than clinical tests, although this is not the most important issue, it can be a differentiator.

Tor Arne Jørgensen[2],[3]*: Not in the state of being accepted as reliable as the test base in most cases does not reach what is viewed as acceptable. Most High range tests vary from low 20 attempts to high 300-400 attempts in most cases per test, whereby the professional test is based on 6000-20000 attempts per test. Some of course have a larger test base but not many, so the outcome will not be nuanced enough to be validated as real. Furthermore, it is not a team of professional test developers with a psychological background who develop these high range tests, they are thus of debatable value to estimate.

It should be added that even amateur designed logic tests, hit quite close to the certified tests in most cases in my experience, where deviations of around 2-3 IQ points have been found regarding my own tests, and it must be said that I am not a certified phycologist by any means, but from the 400 attempts I have had on my own high range tests, then the results is quite clear as norm go…

Jacobsen: Is Elon Musk the Leonardo Da Vinci of today?

Melão Jr.: Musk is very smart and very creative, his IQ is somewhere close to 155 (σ =16) and his creativity level is perhaps equivalent to something like 180.

In Leonardo’s case, if his IQ were put on the same scale, it would be close to 250 to 260 (σ =16, T). Obviously this is only possible because the true distribution of the scores is not normal, otherwise in a historical population of 100 billion the maximum possible rarity would be 10^-11, corresponding to 207.3 (σ =16). To better understand how the determination of scores should be done, I suggest reading this article: https://www.sigmasociety.net/escalasqi

Some people are especially skilled at figuring out what questions need to be asked to solve important problems. Other people are especially skilled at finding answers. Leonardo was exceptional at both, asking the “right” questions and finding efficient and creative answers, perhaps 9 to 10 standard deviations above the mean (in a dense-tailed distribution, as noted above). Musk is very good at asking important questions (perhaps 5 standard deviations above average), but (for now) he needs his army of geniuses to find the answers Leonardo found on his own. Musk is also very good at solving problems (perhaps 3 to 4 standard deviations above average) and has a huge net worth, which boosts his production by outsourcing the work of many others.

Musk’s financial resources, he would probably have built working helicopters in the 15th century, but with animal traction (it would be unlikely to invent an engine at that stage in which the Technology was), and many other things even more extraordinary than what he did, actually did.

On the other hand, in a short time Musk “will be able” to implant computer prostheses in the brain and will surpass Leonardo. It might, but it probably won’t anytime soon, because it won’t be safe at first, it will need to be tested on monkeys, then human volunteers, etc.

Jørgensen: Comparing these two people is not easy by any means as they on both parts are quite unique in any sense, whereas they are driven by a regiment of absolutes. Your inherent qualities are what have helped to shape their outcome into the history books. Brilliant to be woad, where qualities of both the creative and logic-based intellect are above the norm as to the general population. To look at these two individuals as fortified settlers, paving the way forward for innovation and development through quantum leaps for humanity in all its rejuvenation of renewal. Intellectually, these two guys are not so different in the bare nature and their continuous strives towards future innovations, one more hopelessly lost and barred by his contemporaries regards to Leonardo Da Vinci, even more so than the later Elon Musk. Leonardo’s, in some way desperate attempt at fame and fortune trapped by the ancients’ dogmas and frigates in his heyday.

Leonardo Da Vinci an intellect of contemporary currents, intentionally shaped for the individual’s right to be recognized as real and genuine. A man whose brilliance is still increasing in his hardening, is to be regarded as Elon Musk’s superior as to both intellect and creative output. Elon Musk is brilliant in all his glory, but still he is not to be painted with the same statuettes as Leonardo. That said, only time will tell who will be viewed with the greatest influence of these two exemplified giants perceived by utopian framework conditions by and for the artistic innovation and common enrichment of utilitarianism.

Jacobsen: We can certainly see ourselves as a multiplanetary race in the near or distant future, and is that something we want to be then?

Melão Jr.: The technology necessary for terraforming planets or other astronomical objects should be achieved in a short time, perhaps it is already available, although it has not yet been applied. But the time it takes to make another star habitable depends a lot on how big the differences between that star are compared to Earth, in addition to the size of the star, the star’s evolution rate, etc. We still don’t know whether the most promising venture would be terraforming Venus, Mars or the Moon. I would bet on the Moon for the short term and Venus for the long term, but there is still not enough data to decide. Alternatives like Europa, Titan or Enceladus are very cold, perhaps this is more difficult to resolve.

No Solar System object, other than Earth, appears to be sufficiently suited for the development and/or maintenance of complex life as they are now. Perhaps extremophiles like tardigraphs can live on Mars, without the need for major changes to the planet. However, to colonize Mars with humans it would be necessary to solve some very difficult problems:

  1. Mars’ magnetic field is very tenuous, insufficient to deflect lethal radiation. To increase the intensity of this magnetic field naturally and without needing a continuous supply that consumes energy, Mars would need a rotating metallic core of a certain size. It would be an incredibly difficult engineering process to change that and far removed from our current technology.
  2. The atmosphere of Mars has 0.6% of the pressure of the Earth’s atmosphere and is composed of 95% CO 2, with only 2.8% nitrogen and 0.2% oxygen. Earth’s atmospheric pressure at the top of Mount Everest is about 30% of the pressure at sea level, and breathing is already very difficult at the top of Everest, with high risks of nose and ear bleeds. So it would need to increase 100 to 200 times the total mass of gases on Mars and increase 10,000 to 15,000 times the mass of oxygen. How to do this? Musk commented on the possibility of generating more gases in the atmosphere of Mars through nuclear explosions, a completely speculative hunch, to “test and see what happens”. I think it’s a reasonable guess, despite not being supported by anything concrete. Perhaps an interesting alternative to this strategy is to develop genetically edited plants to transform soil nutrients into oxygen. Simply changing CO 2 from the atmosphere to O 2 would not solve it because there is not enough CO It would need to increase the atmospheric mass a lot, in addition to the change in composition, and even then it would be complicated because as the gravitational acceleration on the surface of Mars is 0.37 times that of Earth, so if the density of the air were equal to that of Earth, the pressure would be 0.37, just slightly higher than the pressure at the top of Everest. If I increased the pressure 2.5 to 3 times to make it equal to Earth’s, then I would need to investigate the health effects of having 3x the air density.

There are several other negatives, but less serious than the first two. Mars’ orbital eccentricity is 0.0934, while Earth’s is 0.0167. As a result, the range of thermal variation on Mars is vastly greater. On Earth, the seasons of the year are predominantly determined by the inclination of the axis of rotation, but in the case of Mars the predominant factor would be the variation in the distance from the Sun, which would also be added to the variations related to the inclination of the axis. It would not be a prohibitive range of variation for life, but it would create serious problems for humans. The photos below show the variation in the size of the South polar ice cap in just 2 days. Nothing similar happens in Antarctica (not to the same extent). This sublimated ice cap material is added to the atmosphere, substantially increasing the average total pressure. Weather stations on Mars would be much more marked than on Earth, not only with much greater temperature variations, but also with changes in CO 2 concentrations in the air, relative humidity, etc. And it would be useless to try to “fix” this in the ice caps, because it is a process related to the temperature variations inherent to orbital motion and axial tilt.

Despite these difficult points to resolve, Mars has several positives: the length of the day is very similar to Earth’s day, so it would not require much adaptation. In the cases of the Moon and particularly Venus, day length could be a big problem. The fact that Mars’ albedo is much lower than Earth’s contributes a little to its not being so cold, even though it is 50% farther from the Sun than Earth.

Venus has a very tenuous magnetosphere as well, but this is largely due to its very low rotation speed. Accelerating its rotation would be less difficult than introducing a giant metallic core to Mars, but it would still be immeasurably difficult and would require a much higher level of propulsive energy production than we currently have. When such technology is available, connecting suitable thrusters and with sufficient fuel, this process of accelerating rotation could take a few thousand years. Solar energy itself could serve as a complementary fuel source for the thrusters. At the same time, it would be possible to drain or condense part of the atmosphere. The components of the atmosphere are not very “friendly”, but H 2 SO 4 includes H 2 and O 4, which can produce water, oxygen and ozone. The amount of nitrogen is 3 times greater than on Earth, so I would just need to figure out how to produce the proper chemical reactions. Perhaps in 10,000 to 100,000 years it will be possible to make Venus habitable, with an atmosphere similar to ours, a 24-hour day, a sufficient magnetic field. The current albedo of Venus is 0.76, while that of Earth is 0.39, so although Venus is closer to the Sun, as it absorbs less light, its temperature could be maintained at a level similar to that of Earth, at least in the regions of higher latitudes. When the atmosphere is changed, the albedo must also change, but it must be possible to reasonably control this parameter in order to leave the appropriate temperature. The length of the day time doesn’t seem to me to be an issue in itself, but modifying this would be useful for the magnetic capo reason. In the case of Mars, whose mass is 1/8 that of Venus, it might also be possible to shorten the day from 24 hours to 6 minutes, in which case perhaps Mars’ magnetic field would also reach a level suitable for deflecting harmful radiation, but it would produce many other problems, because the flattening of the planet caused by the pseudo-centrifugal force would be 250 times greater, that is, the planet would be elongated more than an egg, changing several fundamental parameters at the equator and poles, and it may not even be possible to maintain balance hydrostatic effect of an object with these dynamic characteristics, the lithosphere might rupture, or melt due to the heating caused by friction with the magma of the lower layer, the Coriolis effect would be very intense and there would be hurricanes all the time in high latitudes, not to mention the difficulty that it would be to live on a planet where the sun rises and if it could every 3 minutes, the tidal effects would also have a very short cycle etc. So, although the mass of Venus is much greater than that of Mars, it seems more plausible to me to reduce a rotation from 243 days to 1 day, as in Venus, than to reduce a rotation from 1 day to 0.004 days, as in Mars. Both would likely increase the magnetic field by increasing the rotation speed of the core, but the side effects on Mars would be catastrophic.

Anyway, these terraforming processes I believe will only serve as “experiments”, because there will be no advantage in moving to Venus, Moon or Mars. It will be important to use these astronomical objects as “laboratories” to learn how to terraform other astronomical objects, as there will be many unforeseen issues that will need to be resolved during this process, and the first attempts will be very likely to fail. Thus, for a few million years there will be an opportunity for learning, correcting errors, etc. and then apply the process to terraform some exoplanet to meet the real need to leave the Solar System before the Sun leaves the main sequence. If you were to learn how to do it only when necessary to switch to another system, and failed in the attempt, it would be disastrous. That’s why it’s important to test on neighboring planets first, although the objective is not to occupy them, per se. Although the sun is predicted to take 5 billion years to run out of its hydrogen fuel, along this process there will be several major changes in a few hundred million years, both in size and in temperature and luminosity. A 10% increase or decrease in brightness would be a very serious problem. The current model of evolution for G2-V class astronomical objects like the Sun predicts that in 1 billion years the Sun’s luminosity will be about 9% greater than today, so we won’t have several billion years to move into a star system. more stable, maybe around a red dwarf or something. It’s also debatable whether a red dwarf would be an option, because if our main energy source is starlight, with a Dyson sphere or something, maybe a red dwarf wouldn’t be able to meet our energy demand. Another problem is that the current model of evolution is based on many hypotheses that may be wrong or inaccurate. Recently, the Sun’s metallicity was found to be about 43% higher than previously thought, which has several implications for the pace of evolution and how long it will take before we need to move due to the overheating of our region. If there are other parameters revised, the 1 billion-year timeframe can be reduced to a few hundred million (or extended, if we’re lucky).

Perhaps the planets and other astronomical objects within the Solar System are used for tourism, or for the escape of some “privileged” people in case a war renders Earth uninhabitable, although it is probably less difficult to “fix” the Earth after a nuclear war than to make another planet welcoming enough. Even after a devastating nuclear war, Earth would hardly be as inhospitable as Mars, for example. If in the next decades or centuries weapons even more destructive than the current ones emerge, and if they are used, then perhaps they will be able to make Earth more uninhabitable than other planets, in which case migration would be an alternative for some. It is also important to consider that future inhabitants of the Earth may have different needs than the current ones, perhaps the brains will be preserved, but the rest of the body may be replaced by something more versatile, which can withstand higher and lower temperatures and other more hostile conditions, keeping the brain thermally insulated so that it does not suffer damage, with adequate protections also for radiation, etc. Or simply swapping the brain for a homologous structure that is more robust to adverse weather conditions.

It is also likely that “humans” will not move to just one planet, but to several, as the terraforming tests will not work every time, so we will need a reasonable sample of trials to have a good chance that at least some tests “work”. And once the new planets are available for occupation, they are likely to be occupied. It is also possible that genetic and prosthetic changes are made to make humans, animals and plants adapted to other astronomical objects, rather than just altering the astronomical objects to adapt to us. This should make the whole process faster and promote a better harmonization and integration of beings with the planets on which they will live, since some planetary and stellar parameters will probably be very difficult to adjust, such as the amount of UVB rays emitted by the star, necessary for the synthesis of vitamin D, which is currently important for our immune system, but if we happen to inhabit a planet around a red dwarf, the UVB emission will be much lower. In short, it is a question that could be written in a book about it, because it is very complex. But this is an outline of some possibilities.

Jørgensen: The future as a multiplanetary race is for me an inevitable scenario that one cannot get away from.

But it must be said to what extent we as humans would be able to look at ourselves as a human being in today’s biological sense. This with reference to some of what is being referred to by Mr Melao, about being able to adapt to the planetary conditions that you will encounter. What does one mean by this, well that we as humans are more easily served by transformation our structural set-up by order to adapt to what we may face of climatic challenges, etc., on the planet on which we visualize being able to build our new societies upon. If we as a human species are to ensure our continued existence, then it will not be in our current capsules, but in an alternate state trough adapted evolution, whereby the human biology must interphase with technological innovation, thus resulting as a preformation of a bionic entity.

This adaptation is far more realistic compared to the alternative method by way of terraforming new planets to alter the climatic environment to suite us as humans. So, to the question “do we want to be a multiplanetary species?” Yes, I believe so with all my heart, to not prevent the demise of our very existence is unfadeable to me. We as humans are still in our infancy state, our story has not been told and certainly not being lived in full yet. No, there is too much to be lost if we do not consider ourselves as preservable into this alternate state as an multiplanetary race in the future to come. We must ensure survival through conformance towards preservation of the biological galactical imprint by all cause.

What I think about our own planet becoming smaller and smaller is in the sense of feeling that the earth is becoming more and more narrower, due to the simplification of travel methods and a normalization of the fact that everyone is now in one sense or another a globetrotter, with reference to a global traveler. Hundreds of years ago, the earth was a huge place that could take several months to travel from one corner of the world to another, later it took weeks, then days, and now hours. Our planet is not big enough nor exciting enough that we are now just starting to feel the ever-growing urge to move beyond our own palatial comforts to other more worldly endeavors beyond, out there somewhere beyond the heavenly stars.

If one is to put the human existence in the following perspective:

Man, and its existence do not extend over a very long time.

Our total existence in relation to a single human being has so far reached the age of 14-15 years, in the sense that our race of homo sapiens is now as I see it in the stage of a normal teenager. In the very early stages, thousands of years ago we were pondering about the world and all its content with stat at point in time, the marvelous and confusing grandeur, we began to explore our nearby surroundings as on a par with a baby exploring his own crib. Then as time went on, we humans evolve further and forward in time to a few hundred years ago, we could explore not only our nearby areas, but also explore across borders and continents during several weeks on expeditions.

This again can be seen as a young child at the age of 7-8, who is now moving away from the safe surroundings of the house and exploring his immediate environment.

Forward in time again, to the age where we were introduced to general aviation, which meant that we could now travel anywhere in the world within days and finally hours in the present time. This can be compared to the teenagers who again travel further, beyond now on much longer journeys across national borders etc.

The meaning of this is that we are now soon ready to take the next step towards the age of majority to move out of our safe surroundings, as human urge to move further out away from our own planet towards something new and unknown. I firmly believe that we are still in an early stage of our total existence and have about three quarters and a bit again to live, in the relation to the normal human life expectancy of around eighty years+.

Jacobsen: What could be the reason why NASA did not intend to reduce rampant spending and did like SpaceX and reuse the rockets in the same way as when SpaceX does today?

Melão Jr.: I haven’t followed the evolution of this, so maybe my answer doesn’t make sense. But I think that NASA didn’t have the technology for that, nor was it interested in using part of the budget to try to develop this technology. If they used money for that and couldn’t solve the rocket reuse problem, the money would be lost. SpaceX took the gamble and it worked. After SpaceX has solved the problem and the technology is now available, NASA doesn’t have to risk the venture until it learns how to do it. Just repeat what SpaceX has already shown to work. So my guess is that maybe that’s the main reason or at least one of the reasons.

Jørgensen: The basis for NASA lack of reusability or the mere thought about it by imprudent intent, as to not make it its task to take upon this type of innovation of thereby speculative content is not yet clear to me. What is certain, is that now everyone sees what SpaceX has successfully managed, and in a shared note of what Blue Origin has also done to some degree with reference to SpaceX technology advances regarding concept of reusability and space travel. This must make NASAs executive leaders think back and grimly reconsider its previous fallacies of galloping spending costs and their taxpayer’s later mistrust in return. At one point, it seems that NASA was about to give up all hope of looking towards other planets in the faintest of possibility as to human space travel and the hope of colonizing other nearby systems.

Fortunately for us all, we are now led by Elon Musk’s brilliancy and persistency, so now the hope burns brighter the ever before, a beacon to be behold.

But back to the insane approach of the galloping costs for NASA’s space program. The US state’s belief in what one would assume to be the most competent people in the relativity of space odyssey and its particularities, must then also be governed by the most competent economists by spending such astronomical sums as NASA seizes from the US state’s budgets each year. It is conceivable that one must get a type of divine revelation of a new ingenious shooting star, with which can reignite those most impertinent innovations beyond that oneself is unable to imagine in order to rekindle that all important flame within us all.

A type of remnant of a gone by era whereby a new state of mind initiatives that only the most brilliant intellectuals can enable us to understand in a never-ending alternate state such as Elon Musk has now installed and by with which we the benefactors can thus reap the benefits of taking all those educational lessons with us for further study within the field of notation.

Jacobsen: Can we expect that in the next 100 years we humans will encounter new extraterrestrials races?

Melão Jr.: I’m assuming the question is about living extraterrestrials or that at some point were already alive (fossilized, for example) and whose ancestors are also extraterrestrials. Otherwise the answer would be easy, because if a couple of humans go to a lunar base and they have a child there, the child will be a selenite (or lunarian), or something, or a martian if it’s on a base on Mars, and that should happen in less time, of 100 years. But I imagine you would like to rule out this type of extraterrestrial. So if we’re talking about extraterrestrials whose ancestors have also been extraterrestrials for over 100 years, the probability goes down, but it’s still likely, in my opinion. Objects like Oumuamua probably pass through the Solar System frequently, but are rarely detected because there are no monitoring programs for this. When a systematic project is developed to study objects of this type, then our range in a few decades will be much greater than the current one, reaching far beyond the objects of the Solar System, not because we will be able to go to other astronomical objects in such a short time, but because we will better take advantage of opportunities to study interstellar objects that pass in our vicinity, but which are not currently being studied with due attention.

The answer to this question will also depend a lot on some semantic and etymological details, related to the classification of an organism as “living”. Our current concept of life is very limited, to the point that if we found living organisms with certain properties very different from those we know, we might not recognize them as “living”. The evolution of the concept of “life” should play an important role in this process, expanding the scope of this concept and making it more inclusive. Robots, for example, may be considered “alive” if they meet certain criteria.

In reaction to communicating with intelligent life, in projects like SETI, I think it’s less likely, because our current technology based on radio signals didn’t exist 100 years ago and should become obsolete in 100 years, so it’s very unlikely that alien civilizations are precisely at a stage compatible with ours. Another problem is that the signal strength, even if it is very collimated, would not have a very long range (10 kpc, for example). More advanced communication technologies are more likely to use something like quantum tunneling or some other faster method, and not only would there be no loss in signal strength, this would extend the range to the entire universe and allow for delay-free responses. I’m not saying that this technology will necessarily come from tunneling, but from something equivalent in terms of speed, preservation of “cleanliness” (no noise) and signal strength. But I don’t know if in 100 years it will be available. Maybe so, but I think less than 50% probability.

Jørgensen: As I think it will just be an inevitable fact to be behold in the near to far future, as to the possibility of interaction of new planetary species, the answer is yes. I find myself puzzling as to when this will happen, not if it ever will happen. But it should be noted as to what state, shape or form this alien encounter will be presented in…

Jacobsen: What can we humans expect from AI, according to health, war, space travel etc… in the near future?

Melão Jr.: It depends on some factors. If there are enough investments from now on, in 10 to 15 years we could have some people immortal, or at least have some people with the aging process dramatically slowed down and then stopped, while advances continue to later reverse this process and arrive at immortality. and then resuscitation. The strategy for this already exists, but to be put into practice it would need computational resources and a qualified team dedicating time to it.

Some of the important recent technological leaps have encountered barriers that the researchers involved are failing to overcome. AlphaZero was able to go up from -3000 (negative 3000) rating to 3500 rating with 9 hours of training, learning more in those 9 hours than all of humanity combined has been able to learn about chess in over 500 years. However, AlphaZero’s evolution curve bumped into an asymptotic limit and if it kept training for 100 years it wouldn’t be able to climb from 3500 to 3900, maybe not even 3800 or 3700. This effect also happens with Shogi, Gô, Atari games and probably almost all board games and other types of problems if addressed by this solution strategy.

If you use more processing power, yes, it can reach 4000, but in terms of improving heuristics, it has stagnated. A similar problem happens with Lc0 and StockFish. Stockfish shows no real improvement since version 13, the difference from version 15 to 13 is 4 points, while the uncertainty in the measurement is 17 points.

Source: https://ccrl.chessdom.com/ccrl/4040/rating_list_all.html

Demis Hassabis’ idea for using reinforcement deep learning the way he did was important in getting to this stage, but there is no prospect of moving forward until the issues that make the next step possible are resolved. In the case of AlphaZero I don’t know exactly what they did other than what they make available on the site, but in the case of Lc0 there is more public information and the system itself is available to be tested extensively, and there are many errors in Lc0 and optimization details inadequate that need improvement, and I suppose there are a lot of similar problems in the case of AlphaZero, maybe not quite the same problems as Lc0, but just as serious, certainly.

Jørgensen: If one looks at what we today experience regarding artificial intelligence, then for me it will be regarded towards optimism, this based on the extensive help that one can now receive in so many ways. Going forward, when a self-perception will be duly important for AI and its denotative constructs, can then quickly be turned witnessed by genuine concern of the unknown. One even hopes that the help that we all enjoy and know today for example by what Google Search, Google Translate, Google Maps etc., does for each of us every day all around the world. So, the way forward I hope, will address the preconception of securing humanity further for a common coexistence, with the fusing of our biological matter with the technological artificial intelligence into a higher form for symbiotic existential awareness, as an all-important first step to further human advances in the hope of preservation of our existential survival.

Regards to the topic of warfare, we see a lot of it today, with self-searching missile systems, drones etc. The soldiers of the future will in such a sense be superfluous, as rocket installations and long-distance warfare will deal with virtually all enemy installations and personnel. Small pockets of elite soldiers that we have today, where I want to highlight the Telemark Battalion, Norway’s elite soldiers, which soon will be equipped, I mean with improved performance over what is viewed as a normal top performance effect for humans in battle. A similar state of what the movie franchise ” The Universal Soldier”, displayed which many of us enjoyed in the early 90’s. This is form me the first obviously step to take for the advancement of elite forces in the near future. 

To the point of space travel, we humans must adapt to long and very challenging space travel over long distances in the not too far future. Whereby challenges as for example, muscle loss, room sickness, and all the other biological challenges that we humans must deal with, where our human weaknesses emerge so all too well, will need to be limited at all costs if a long-distance space travel is to be successful.

As mentioned earlier, a changed outcome for our own part is essential for our survival in the future, we cannot solely rely on having to terra form new potential habitable planets, the time is not on our side for that. We are currently experts in adaptation regarding out surroundings come what may, so this is the way to go in the future of space travel. Furthermore, we need to find ways to travel faster than light, or to discover wormholes that can be exploited if possible.

If we are talking about long space travel, it is not enough to live for 80+ years as we do now, we extend our life expectancy to at least 200-300 hundred years or more with our current rocket speed limit slingshot through space in order to reach a potential planetary star systems that can house us in the future. The alternative is as mentioned earlier, to exceed the current light speed by many warps. In summary, if AI does not wipe us out and thus their need for self-preservation ceases, we must also cease our troublesome self-perception by and for the preservation of the biological origin over to a pre amt understanding by the transferable biological input- transference by morphonology technological output, resulting in an alternate state of existence to ensure the species’ survival.

Jacobsen: What are the future prospects of man according to AI and its non-extended properties in all faults, where emphasis is placed on: extinction of the species man or coexistence?

Melão Jr.: Depends on what will be considered “human”. In Asimov’s book/film “Bicentennial Man”, robots added more and more human parts, until they became practically human. But it’s more likely that the path followed in the real world is the other way around, and humans put more and more inorganic parts, until you get to a point where maybe only the brain remains, and maybe later the brain too is replaced by something equivalent, but with very different structure.

Jørgensen: The prospects for man, are for me in the hope of a formative symbiosis, where a common perception of ours and their values ​​is united. But one sees clearly that this will probably not become a reality, if we humans today live in the present and are unable by the large amount to see beyond the horizon against the dangers that threaten if we continue the course we are now on today. My frustration is based on the following notion, if the interest as to the importance of the intellect is the same size as that of our head, and that the interest in the physiological ramifications correspond from the neck down, then the intellect will always lose ground for the physiological manifestations.

This is simplified, so that the people who can answer the challenges of the future are in my opinion in a weathering state of despair according to the general verification thereof. It can almost be states that; “are we humans worth saving or not?” This is probably where one can to a certain extent consider that all life is worth saving, but still, where do we draw the line for the preservability by species diversity. If we are to be able to answer the challenges of the future, then from what I see a deviation on the intelligence scale must be increased upwards at all levels.

For me, this is probably to be regarded as a type of Darwinian way of thinking, whereas the strong will prevail in the battle for ones right to exist and the weak will most likely perish, at least when it comes to one’s cognitive state. The technological challenges do not allow for those with limited cognitive abilities in the future, sad but true.

We are soon doomed to lose our current alpha role in society, and when this will happen, then only those with the best ability to adapt and shows willfulness through morphologically changing their original biological imprint towards a higher state of biotechnological self enhancement. In other words, the most selective adaptational individuals will have the best chances of securing one’s spawn further and the weakly will fall away, this can be seen as a necessity for the very continuation of our species survival in a hopefully subordinate role with AI as the new alpha.

Jacobsen: Does the term “genius” disappear according to what capabilities AI might possess?

Melão Jr.: The concept of “genius” should not be formulated to apply exclusively to humans. This concept can be subdivided in the taxonomic hierarchy by species, by genus, by family, etc. and may include new groups of organisms such as robots or organic and inorganic aliens, even the concept of “organic” could be reconsidered to include silicon beings, depending on the properties of the beings that eventually fall into this group.

One can use the concept of “human genius”, as well as “human giant”, or chimpanzee genius, giant chimpanzee, depending on the level of rarity or the amount of standard deviations away from the mean, or some similar criterion.

Within each animal, plant, mineral, monera, etc. and other alien life forms and inorganic beings, beings may “accept” some attributes that have a coherent meaning within their respective category, but not accept other attributes. For example: giant rocks, albino elephants, genius humans, triboluminescent fish . But not genius rocks or lepton bunnies or yellow scream, because some categories don’t accept certain concepts. They could admit as metaphors or poetic licenses, but the meanings would be analogies with some losses, distortions and damage to the rigor of the meanings. “Genius stones” would not establish an intelligible idea. I could try to force the “genius” attribute to stone, but that would start to have a consistency that is too fragile for proper analysis. It would be more advisable to “filter” the attributes that each category of entities could receive, to maintain some logical rigor in the analysis.

In this case, among all classes of organisms that accept the attribute “intelligence”, it would also be possible to apply quantifiers of relative intensity of intelligence, such as “genius”. The application of these attributes within the same species would be easier, because generally the distribution of a variable within the same species is similar to a Gaussian, or after a few transformations (logarithm of the variable, for example) it becomes similar to a Gaussian. A genius dog would be one with an intelligence 3 (or 4 or 5) standard deviations above the mean. Within the “dogs” group there is a smooth curve of intensity levels for variables such as height, running speed or intelligence.

When considering different species mixed together, the distribution form can no longer be normal, it can even be very different from a normal one and strongly asymmetric, with some discontinuities or with some deep reductions in frequency in the intervals that separate two species, moreover, in instead of taking the form of a normal, it may take the form of a distribution in which the smallest organisms are much more numerous than the largest. But the concept of level of rarity would still be applicable whatever the distribution of the variable of interest, so that it would still be possible to apply the attribute “genius” to a group of categories of beings, as long as the beings of these categories accepted the attribute “intelligence”. I am simplifying things, to describe the idea, but naturally the meaning of “genius” would not need to be based exclusively on “intelligence”. To get the point across, let’s assume that “genius” is simply a quantifier of intelligence.

By approaching the question in this way, perhaps mammals contained all the geniuses in existence. Or maybe the macroscopic animals contained all the jinn. It would depend a lot on what the criterion for conceptualizing “genius” would be. If it were for rarity within the population of individuals, whether individuals would be weighted by size, mass, by some other criterion, whether rarity would be stratified by species, etc. It would also depend on the cut-off point to determine at what rarity level the “genius” rating would start to apply, whether 1 in 1,000, or 1 in 1,000,000 or something else.

Analyzing an example: if we were to consider the distribution of all individuals of all species mixed together, without any weighting, then as the number of microorganisms is much greater than that of large organisms, if the number of microorganisms is 10^12 times greater than the number of insects and even larger beings, then insects could already be classified as “geniuses” because they would be at the top of 1 in 1,000,000 of the most intelligent beings in the general population, since the general population would be mostly of microorganisms. If the criterion were different and considered the average intelligence by species and stratified by species, on a planet with 10 million species, if the criterion for “genius” were 1 in 1 million, then probably some great apes and some great cetaceans would be classified as geniuses. Although humans are significantly above other primates, it would be a little more difficult to establish a statistical criterion along this path that would make it possible to “surgically” separate humans from other animals, including because there are some gorillas and chimpanzees that are more intelligent than some humans.

In this context, inorganic beings such as AIs that are smarter than humans, or almost as smart as humans or gorillas or dolphins, would also receive this classification of “geniuses”. If the criteria were based on rarity, there wouldn’t be much difference on an ordinal scale between a robot and a human, because they would both be near the top, the robot first in the world and humans second. While robots could be many orders of magnitude smarter than humans, the criterion based on rarity would not do much to create a special class for robots. This is a situation in which the standardization method I described in 2000 would be successfully applied, because it would make it possible to measure the extent to which robots are smarter than humans, rather than simply measuring species rarity levels.

In the current scenario, for example, humans are 1st and perhaps chimpanzees or gorillas are 2nd, and the proportion is relatively small of members of the species that are 1st to members of the species that are 2nd. Perhaps the average intelligence of humans is 100 times the average of chimpanzees, just 2 orders of magnitude. It is not much, there is even an intersection between the distributions of intellectual levels of humans and other great primates. In the case of AIs , perhaps the ratio to humans is something like 10^6 or 10^9, so even the smartest humans wouldn’t come close to the intellectual level of average intelligence machines, or even faulty machines. Perhaps, in the beginning, we preserved some intellectual attributes in which we could still excel, but it would be a matter of time before the machines were surpassing us in practically all relevant aspects.

If the criterion were based on proportion of intellectual potential, rather than levels of rarity, it would be easier and more logical to separate the intellectual level of robots and humans, as well as separating humans and other animals, although often not. there is a well-defined interface and the levels intersect.

Therefore the term genius would continue to be applicable, both within specific species and in groups of species and groups of intelligent entities. But instead of the term “genius” it might be necessary to use “human genius” to distinguish from “genius” among all species . Subdivisions could also be created at higher and lower levels. Human-scale “deep genius” or “universal genius” tests would be relatively little for AI systems, and an average AI level could be too high for any human to achieve. In the case of hybrid humans there would also be categories according to the breadth of the connection and the preserved proportion of humanity. In Asimov’s book/film “Bicentennial Man” he thinks that robots would want to become humans, but it is much more likely that humans want to become robots, which would be “dangerous” in many ways, because maybe the feeling, the emotion, some attributes that we consider essentially human and animals, may not be relevant to robots and will gradually become extinct. I wouldn’t know to what extent this could be bad. In science fiction robots evolve in the sense of developing feelings, but perhaps the real path of evolution is in the sense that humans are progressively deprived of organic parts associated with feelings.

Jacobsen: Does the term “genius” disappear according to what capabilities AI might possess?

Jorgensen: I will start by proclaiming the following statement of “never”, and here is why I think so. The term genius, better known as to the “creative intellect”, whereby the creative mind is put in focus as to the human creativeness. The innovative marvel that embraces our intellectual experience centers, proclaimed by peritonitis of amazement of what the human mind is capable of producing. This is what I want to statuette here forth, and not to move beyond what is meant to form the basis of the question formulation initially, the magical intellect.

The term “genius” for the intended purpose will here for me, not only remain, but also be reinforced, as it can easily be surpassed not in the short term but in the long term in terms of human intellectual maxims. Following protrude as to what one should then focus on, hereby understood as focus on the individual’s intellectual creativity, as many great innovators was far ahead of their own time, have given us mere mortals a glimpse into the future, duly noted, and as in most cases not in their own lifetimes, but after their passing. Then, when the final revelations come to light, then everyone can rediscover these geniuses again as a prompt renaissance seance, thus presenting the opportunity to be immortalized ones again for all future prosperity.

This goes for; Leonardo Da Vinci, Michelangelo, Raphael, and many more brilliant intellectual diamonds not only in the West, but for the rest of the world as well … Their inventions, their unbridled drive, courage, unstoppable perseverance to proclaim their worth in the past, present and, yes, promptly stated for all eternity. The unambiguity abilities of these innovators and their approach as to how the world works, or rather, to see what infinite possibilities the world has to offer far beyond us mere mortals, is for me the most beautiful human marvel of all the worlds creations.

In today’s world, most of the material we all use every day is being produced by an assembly line process controlled by machines. Machines account for almost everything that is being made today, everything from textiles, cars, food, electronics, heavy industry, shipping materials etc. What is being hand-made which was almost everything back 100-150 years ago, is now to be viewed as very exclusive and precious more now than ever before. In the future, this effect, as I see it, will only increase in its exclusivity, especially when it comes to what the human imaginative innovations, bespoke and perfected with the extra little distinctiveness. And it is the distinctiveness that will become so much more of a valuable commodity, the handcraft that only a human can create with his faults and shortcomings, far beyond of what any machine could ever create, machine production is without sense of feel, a gentle touch, delicacy, emotions, just lifeless production without any notion of self-pride…

A.I will be able to create beautiful architectural structures, cars, textiles etc. but put a little bluntly, AI for me represents; “quantity”, and for the human genius it represents; “quality.” Which one would you like…? AI will be amazing in many ways, possibly far beyond what we can ever truly understand, but it will never be able to replace those most special human qualities. We as humans are unique in every way just as our fingerprints are, no two are alike, on an equal footing with all living beings, we are not mass-produced.

Not that this is necessarily the case with AI, but I see that I am also a bit hesitant about cloning as well, as even here the uniqueness is diluted to a certain degree. Genius will for me remain unchanged and most likely only reinforced further ahead in the future, as we will only even more, hold on to the fundamental values ​​of being that very special person, where you are you and no one else has your particular qualities, whereas your extraordinary abilities cannot be recreated by any higher intelligent being, not now, not ever…

Jacobsen: What will be the basis of AI’s very existence, will it see its own usefulness and will try to develop and preserve it, but then for what purpose?

Melão Jr.: The path leading carbon-based beings to develop consciousness was very different from the path being followed by silicon systems. The first organisms arose spontaneously and they did not consciously think or struggle to survive or multiply. It was random behavior, among other random behaviors, that ended up favoring some alternatives and making populations of entities with certain characteristics more numerous than others. Therefore, from the moment that life appears, it tends to multiply and evolve. In the course of this process, consciousness, pain, hunger, fear, greed, loyalty, love, friendship, empathy, and other extremely complex chemical processes that produce certain reactions to certain stimuli, reactions that previously pass through a very complicated process between the moment the organism receives the stimulus and reacts to it, leading us to what we are today, as well as other animals, plants, fungi, bacteria, etc. to what they are today. The reaction of removing the hand from the fire when feeling pain or the process of choosing a partner with wider hips to procreate were modeled throughout this process as factors that increased our likelihood of producing more offspring for the next generation. There are many factors, and they were not consciously planned. In the case of robots, we are trying to recreate this in a simplified way and in a very different way, in which we want to prevent them from becoming competitive with us.

In an article in which I show that Moravec’s paradox is actually a pseudo-paradox, I comment on the example of the car, the way it moves faster than other animals, but using different structures, different strategy and taking advantage of laws different physiques. In chess machines play better than humans, but they don’t “think” in a similar way. Before AlphaZero, machines thought very differently, but they were able to solve the same problems much better than we could, in different ways. We understood many concepts and tried to apply these concepts in relatively complex decision processes to choose the best bids, while the programs did not understand any concepts, they just did a lot of calculations and used appropriate heuristics to prune the tree of possibilities and prevent the forks from branching. a number much higher than they could calculate. But with AlphaZero this situation changed very radically and he really started to simulate the “understanding” of strategic concepts, and he went far beyond humans in this, because he understands the concepts more and better, he discovered many concepts that we still don’t understand.

Chess programs prior to AlphaZero only received a simplified algorithmic description of a few concepts, a small part of the concepts that we knew and considered most relevant, and compensated for the lack of strategic “knowledge” with immense calculation capacity and good heuristics. to prune variants that did not deserve to be explored in depth. But AlphaZero plays like a human, he even calculates worse than humans in situations with long variants that have few ramifications, and this is impressive, because a human calculates 1 or 2 throws per second, while AlphaZero calculates 30,000 throws per second. Even so, humans calculate further than Alpha Zero in some positions. Of course, despite this Alpha Zero plays much better, but that’s not a major novelty. Since 2007 and maybe since 2003, programs have played better than humans, but never have they shown to “understand” the game better than humans and calculate worse than humans. Perhaps I should comment a little more on why Deep Blue’s victory in 1997 could not be interpreted as the watershed of when machines surpassed humans in chess, but that would be a bit extensive. I will just say that Deep Blue wasn’t that strong, won by “luck” (and with a few other suspicions) and was removed from the scene so that no one would find out what really happened. It’s different from when Deep Junior and Deep Fritz tied with Kasparov and Kramnik in 2000 and 2003, and finally when Rybka emerged in 2005-2007, the supremacy of machines became unquestionable.

While AlphaZero’s 30,000 throws per second is far less than StockFish’s 3,000,000,000 throws per second, it’s far more than humans’ 2 throws per second, yet humans still calculate better than AlphaZero in some cases, while AlphaZero “understands ” concepts are much better than humans. In a way, it’s as if AlphaZero is more human than humans, in some ways. AlphaZero followed a path in which he himself evolved for this, without human intervention, without learning anything from humans, similar to living carbon beings. So this seems to be a promising path, in some ways. Of course, the analogy is neither broad nor perfect, AlphaZero is probably more complex than a microorganism, so it started its evolution at a different point. In addition, there are many other differences, and some human “guidance” on how he should evolve, although there are no interventions in the content he learns and how he discovers knowledge and how he selects the most useful knowledge, there is a broad prior structure created by humans about the criteria and structure that it should adopt to learn, while microorganisms did not have this, there was much greater “freedom” to test anything that worked, and in this process some reactions such as “fear” or “hunger” ended up emerging. as “useful”, but for AlphaZero it would not be in the still specialized context in which it operates.

Then we come to the car situation. A human moves very differently from a horse, a flea, a snake, a bird or a fish, but all animals have a certain similarity in the process of moving that is very different from using wheels. Perhaps the snake is more different from other animals, but it also moves very differently from a being that uses wheels. Although these animals are different from each other, they are all very different from the car, and a car like a Bugatti can beat all animals at speed (on a proper track). Nature never produced an animal that developed wheels, because it was something “planned” to adapt to a situation whose properties were understood by the wheel designer and there was not much need to do billions of random tests to find a good fit. Another important point is that the ground has been adjusted to harmonize with the wheels. No other animal does this very ostentatiously. Beavers can build small dams, and other animals can build other structures that affect the environment, such as corals or bees, but humans do this in a much deeper and “planned” way. The beaver doesn’t think about how to build the dams, he simply follows his instinct like factory pre-installed software. It is different from humans, who look at a mountain, want to make a road through it, and analyze whether it is better to drill a hole in the mountain, go over it, go on one side or go down and follow another path without changing the landscape. Also, humans can use many different methods to drill through the mountain and can create new technologies for it, while beavers will follow the same method as their ancestors did.

So the way humans interact with the environment is much more complex, and humans are able to continually optimize and improve their methods, rather than relying on random evolutionary changes that cause the next generations to be born with mutations that lead them to test different strategies for dig holes in mountains. Thus, humans can plan wheels and flat lanes that match better than legs on paths with uneven topologies. In addition, the use of fuels, engines, various devices that improve the process of locomotion of a car evolve very differently from the natural evolution of animals. Leonardo Da Vinci’s idea of using propellers instead of wings was also very interesting, although he was probably based on Archimedes’ screw. Before him, and after him, for centuries and millennia people wanted to fly imitating birds, using wings. But Leonardo understood that this was not the case and showed that this may not be the most promising path, or at least there may be one or more alternative paths to consider.

So the way machines are evolving under our guidance may never produce something like consciousness, because they do exclusively what we would like them to do to meet specific needs and solve specific problems, or broader problems, but with well-defined limits. However, when machines begin to have “freedom” to evolve by themselves, as happened with AlphaGo, AlphaZero, MuZero, Lc0 etc., the directions that things can take are out of our control and maybe they choose paths that lead to formation of characteristics such as fear, selfishness, ambition, revolt, etc. As the training of these machines can be very fast, and in 10 hours a machine can develop a “personality”, it becomes dangerous that this escapes our control and that psychopathic, human-killing machines are created, or simply that they feel wronged by the way humans make use of them. At the current stage, MuZero is still far from creating a personality of his own during evolution in his training, but with 1 or 2 innovative leaps in the evolutionary process, this could already become a reality. I am using “evolution” and “training” mixed together, but they are quite different and can and should be combined, with the difference that in the Darwinian model of Evolution organisms do not transmit characters acquired during life, but for machines this can be configured according to our will, a form of Neo Lamarckism.

So the formation of consciousness will depend a lot on the path taken in the evolutionary process, on strategic interruptions in this process to test how they are developing, etc. Even so, it is dangerous, because machines can “pretend” that they are evolving along a certain path, so that they can proceed without interruption. So I think that if humanity doesn’t self-destruct in a war or there’s no shortage of energy to continue technological advances, or some other impediment, probably machines, sooner or later, will develop consciousness, although maybe it’s a very different kind of consciousness from ours. Perhaps they understand that they exist, perhaps they “want” to remain active (alive) and fight for it, perhaps they are competitive with some machines and allied with others, in addition to the possibility of all being connected in a single central and there is no difference between individuality and collective, while they are connected. Perhaps before all this happens, we are already well integrated with them, with more than 50% of the human body replaced by mechanical/electronic parts and we are part of these connections. Perhaps they use our brains as a complement to process their consciousness.

Jørgensen: Every creation of varying degrees of intelligent designation can have its experience of the importance of preserving the survival of one’s species. We as humans are cognitively minded in the preservation, by and for the future preservation of our species. Can the same be said for the survival of the various animal diversity? Is species diversity of lower cognitive perception, whereas the transfer of latent instincts can then be seen as elements of safeguarding the species’ right to further existence? Which then further brings me, to what can be said about artificial intelligence and if it will only be viewed as a mere reinforcing factor for future consolidation of species diversity’s right to self-preservation over one’s species brethren.

The distance can well be duly noted, as to be amplified as the distance from animals to humans is of a certain preconception of the biological separation, a “us and them.” This is thought by the undersigned to be amplified according to our own biological imprint, as well as cognitive perception to be weathered even more according to an upgraded bionic entity, whereby the degree of inclination is tended towards full technological function regarding both the physiological and cognitive statute. For me, the distance will be perceived as increasing, and those who are seen as subordinates will then again be regarded as non-important elements for species diversity conservation in the future.

The weak fall away and perish and the strong will survive.

AI, for me, will have all these qualities in the more distant future as we as humans will not be considered important enough to be preserved. I sadly feel that we humans have outplayed our most important thus dominant role in the big picture.

But what about AI and its role, when “it” perceives themselves with their extremely exalted cognitive state, will they make the necessary calculations for the decision either or according to cessation due to lack of view on the preservation of one’s own species. An unavoidable fact, is that we humans need a reason to exist, a secure anchor point to be able to behold the meaning of life if you will, it can be within, religion, politics, environment, etc. But the fact that we all need a reason to get up in the morning cannot be discussed away, let alone with AI, and their reason for “getting up in the morning”, if I may allow me to put it like that, what will be their reason for getting up in the morning?

I must admit that this is of course only speculative formatives to be considered purely as a hypothetically presentation, but still … It is conceivable that of what imprints that man has installed in AI’s connotative state, can be considered as a sufficient basis for preservation beyond what one can speculate here.

If the reason can be revealed for a future whereby only technological mechanical objects are present, the biological diversity will be weathered, as their existential merits will for me cease to exist. By what is a machine to do with forests, flowers, animals, insects etc. but to see them as simple and pointless obstructions…

I in a moment of utopistic hope, that, to take concise notes, then change one’s biological structural in the search for something more imminent and substantially bearing. If AI wants to experience nature’s fantastic seasonal manifestations that we all as humans experience and adore, AI will look at this blue planet as something worth to be preserved, but realistically, it does not necessarily meet AI and its own ideals of beautiful nor necessary and important life functions for innovative and vital incentives by and for conservation of the species.

I find myself concluding the following notion, by not finding a fully enlighten obvious answer as to “the meaning of life” for AI, hopefully this answer will be presented by some of you that reads this…

Footnotes

[1] Hindemburg Melão Jr. is the author of solutions to scientific and mathematical problems that have remained unsolved for decades or centuries, including improvements on works by 5 Nobel laureates, holder of a world record in longest announced checkmate in blindfold simultaneous chess games, registered in the Guinness Book 1998, author of the Sigma Test Extended and founder of some high IQ societies.

[2] Tor Arne Jørgensen is a member of 50+ high IQ societies, including World Genius Directory, NOUS High IQ Society, 6N High IQ Society just to name a few. Tor Arne was also in 2019, nominated for the World Genius Directory 2019 Genius of the Year – Europe. He is also the designer of the high range test site; www.toriqtests.com.

[3] Individual Publication Date: June 15, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/melao-jorgensen-1; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Schooling the Young 1: Tor Arne Jorgensen on the Educational Basics

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/06/15

Abstract

Tor Arne Jørgensen is a member of 50+ high IQ societies, including World Genius Directory, NOUS High IQ Society, 6N High IQ Society just to name a few. He has several IQ scores above 160+ sd15 among high range tests like Gift/Gene Verbal, Gift/Gene Numerical of Iakovos Koukas and Lexiq of Soulios. Tor Arne was also in 2019, nominated for the World Genius Directory 2019 Genius of the Year – Europe. He is the only Norwegian to ever have achieved this honor. He has also been a contributor to the Genius Journal Logicon, in addition to being the creator of toriqtests.com, where he is the designer of now eleven HR-tests of both verbal/numerical variant. His further interests are related to intelligence, creativity, education developing regarding gifted students. Tor Arne has an bachelor`s degree in history and a degree in Practical education, he works as a teacher within the following subjects: History, Religion, and Social Studies. He discusses: education; a new cohort of students; build a rapport; identifying the more astute students; teaching; teachers get good or stay bad at teaching young students; the most difficult; encourage good behaviour; and deal with highly difficult students.

Keywords: education, schooling, the young, Tor Arne Jorgensen.

Schooling the Young 1: Tor Arne Jorgensen on the Educational Basics

*Please see the references, footnotes, and citations, after the interview, respectively.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Education is a fundamental aspect of the long-term health of a society. You happen to work with the next generations in teaching. You have two kids. I wanted to explore a bit of the background in education within this context. “How?” in general. “How to do it properly?” in particular. We have touched a bit upon these things in parts of interviews at times. Although, I would like to cover some more of this. So, let’s cover some of the groundwork, what is your fundamental stance on educating the next generation of Norwegians?

Tor Arne Jorgensen[1],[2]*: My basis for educating or explaining the future, as well as proclaiming the bearing generation and then whether or not their imprint as to what extent is influenced by the scholastic institutions can hopefully here be valued in some sense. The broad discrepancies of the like-minded kind of today’s academic institutions are to be considered an offspring’s fallacy and should according to what I now proclaim hereby end in their current state of form. The way forward is rather to embrace in the notion of change through adaption away from today’s obsolete form, towards a more fluid state inclined towards structural changes at the pace that will be considered viable by tomorrows standards. Thus, leading in accordance above and beyond today technologically advances not only limited to one own country but in a conglutinating state on a global scale.

Today’s schools are so mind-bogglingly far behind that it’s an embarrassment to be behold, the Norwegian academic institutions specifically directed toward the primary and secondary schools must start listening to what’s going on out there on the international scene, by reforming themselves towards the more pruned; intellectually, innovative, and creative people in any way possible in the near too far future. When schools find themselves relying solely on highly educated academics, who have completed the formation of a failed and obsolete system that again will only pass on the same shipwreck system to the next generation, what then will this result in…? If one bothers to gaze in the direction with regards to most brilliant innovators of our time, men like; Elon Musk, Bill Gates, and previous Steve Jobs etc. then the same thing is said repeatedly, “you must hire innovators who see the world differently.” Their brilliant minds that were, and still are today reinvent an entirely new systems that are directly adapted to the ongoing developing societies, find themselves thrusting forward in quantum leaps, but not so much by the educational institutions, why is that…?

What is explicitly clear to me, is the need for a completely new mindset by and of tomorrow’s educational institutions. A clear comparison is according to space travel, NASA was about to throw in the towel, their overpriced misuse and chuck away mentality was completely disconnected, until for example Elon Musk came along and reinvented a completely new way of thinking in terms of cost savings toward a competitive space industry, today space travel is at full speed ahead with the right kind of innovator at the helm. So, look I say, at those with innate talent far beyond what an everyday academic can comprehend.

Today’s schools in Norway and beyond are putting all their eggs in the wrong basket, I can only hope that the institutional directories will one day wake up and maybe just maybe look outwards at the real people who can actually get the educational direction on the right course again, and not keep their current course straight into the iceberg.

Jacobsen: When you get a new cohort of students, how do you introduce yourself?

Jorgensen: The introduction process is relatively simple, as one emphasizes what is expected of oneself and what is to be expected of the students in return. That is, what can the students expect from me according to academic content, further, what a class leader commits to, as well as social understandings. Who I am privately for the sake of what I do and my abilities in that sense does not matter in any sense. The students, on their part, present at the request forwarded by me about their expectations of me as a teacher, regarding both academic and social.

Jacobsen: How long does it, typically, take to build a rapport with them?

Jorgensen: This process of uncovering any structural intrigues, class compositions etc. Is a time-consuming task, where one must look at each individual student and their roles in the class society. Who are “the shakers and movers”, and who are not? What type of pupil characteristics goes together and who does not, who is comes forth as rootless and who creates group affiliation from within for the sake of calm structural balance. The social aspect is probably what must be continuously worked on to be adjusted throughout the school year by order to meet the best possible academic benefit for all students.

Jacobsen: We have talked about identifying the more astute students. Those who are intelligent and disengaged, or intelligent and motivated. The former, maybe, needing a bit more of a prod. Let’s cover that again, here, so it’s in one place, thematically appropriate too. How do you identify them? In Norway, there’s a culture of negation of arrogance, which can be healthy in a lot of ways.

Jorgensen: The process by which identification in the innate state of natural brilliance of the intellectual supreme being has several well-known and thus recognizable trademarks, and as there are a lot of these trademarks to be identified as such, I will just name a few of them in this brief section. Short summarized as; evasive, restlessness, and reflective characteristics of what is deemed above normal relative to age level of that particular student as well as the innate metacognitive affiliations are decided factors for me valued as unavoidable and inalienable characteristics of higher characteristics within the field of the student-based intelligentsia.

Jacobsen: Why, of all professions, choose teaching? It’s underpaid, lacks as much respect as medical doctor, and requires significant patience in working with the young.

Jorgensen: If my mindset had been in this direction, then my choice of profession would never have fallen onto the teaching profession.

Yes, there is a lot of distress that is not taken care of according to most things within my field of work. That said, there are many more rights that in turn outweighs the wrongs.

I am not an idealist in the sense of being blinded by utopian silliness, nor am I a capitalist go doer as this surly fall on its own unreasonableness.

My wish is to work with people where a possible outcome in the end, is to be able to see that one has brought through the academic line a person who can and will become a meaningful individual for a future oriented society in the most positive sense. That one is able to see that one’s own efforts has led to an improved condition for our surroundings, an all-purpose environment improvement to benefit us all in the long run. Lastly, to direct the future generation to be the bearers of society after our own turn is done, to pass the torch on in the faith that all will be ok…

Jacobsen: How do teachers get good or stay bad at teaching young students?

Jorgensen: In the quest for appliance by “get good”, the answer is simple. You must develop yourself both professionally and emotionally. Being aware of the aspect of the developing society that surrounds us, is now more crucial than ever before. The teachers who prove able to see that this adaptation as an undeniable imperative, will then be the mainstay for the teachers who see this as their absolute obligation.

Those teachers who in some way seems to be unable to reinvent themselves or adapt themselves and are thereby stuck in their rudimentary traditional structures, where upon there is no room for innovative initiatives, nor any attempts of adaptation towards society’s normative, fall at the risk of becoming permanently passive in their learning initiatives regarding the students’ weathering of academic requirements for the proper competence.

Jacobsen: What ages for teaching can be the most difficult?

Jorgensen: All ages can bring with them their own uniquely challenging qualities, but what usually presents itself is in terms of general challenges across the entire emotional scale of your average student, is probably thus most promptly disposed around the age of 12-16 years.

Jacobsen: How do you encourage good behaviour in students?

Jorgensen: Through some simple positive directed concepts listed as follow: Accountability, self-perception, self-esteem, social acceptance, general recognition, and finally overall acknowledgement as to how they the students want their general environment to view them as…Here the main focus is positive input into every category listed above, this is done to give the students the proper initiative for a focused based and innated direction toward a meaningful adult productive existent that is beneficial for the whole community.

Jacobsen: Also, how do you deal with highly difficult students?

Jorgensen: By confirmation and acceptance. These students need to be understood and supported, put forward through a secure social framework, only then can one to a certain extent expect professional competence development. But the theme around challenging students is never easy, some you can help, and others you cannot.

All Norwegian schools have a support system that helps them if the schools themselves should deem it as an aperitive incentives by fear of falling short regarding their original contract obligations.

Footnotes

[1] Tor Arne Jørgensen is a member of 50+ high IQ societies.

[2] Individual Publication Date: June 15, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/teaching-1; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Hindemburg Melão Jr. on Gratitude and Clarifications, and Life, Views, and Work: Founder, Sigma Society (1)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/06/08

Abstract

Hindemburg Melão Jr. (January 15, 1972) was born in São Paulo, Brazil. He founded the most, or one of the most, selective high-I.Q. societies, the Sigma Society and is the Creator of the Sigma Test Extended. He is a philosopher, chess analyst, and an astrophotographer. He published hundreds of articles on chess, finance, philosophy, science, and more.  He discusses: an extensive preamble of gratitude and clarifications to the interview; growing up; extended self; family background; youth with friends; education; purpose of intelligence tests; high intelligence; extreme reactions to geniuses; greatest geniuses; genius and a profoundly gifted person; necessities for genius or the definition of genius; work experiences and jobs held; job path; myths of the gifted; God; science; tests taken and scores earned; range of the scores; ethical philosophy; political philosophy; metaphysics; worldview; meaning in life; source of meaning; afterlife; life; and love.

Keywords: Albert Frank, AlphaZero, American Biographical Institute, artificial intelligence, Bahá’í Faith, Baran Yonter, Catholic, Cattell, Chris Harding, Christopher Michael Langan, Deus VULT, Domagoj Kutle, Galois, Galton, Garth Zietsman, Gauss, George Zweig, Grady Towers, Guinness Book of World Records, Guilherme Marques dos Santos Silva, Hindemburg Melão Jr., hrIQt, intelligence, Intertel, Isaac Newton, ISIS Test, ISPE, Jimmy Rogers, Kardecism, Keith Raniere, Kevin Langdon, Kim Ung-Yong, Langdon Adult Intelligence Test, life, Marilyn vos Savant, Martial Arts, Mega Society, Mega Test, Murray Gell-Mann, MuZero, native Indian, Neumann, Nobel Prize, Pars Society, Pascal, Paul Cooijmans, Paulo Reginaldo Pascholati, Petri Widsten, pIQ, Prometheus Society, Richard Lynn, Rick Rosner, rIQ, Ronald Hoeflin, science, Sigma Society, Sigma Test Extended, Stanford-Binet, Titan Test, TNS, views, work.

Conversation with Hindemburg Melão Jr. on Gratitude and Clarifications, and Life, Views, and Work: Founder, Sigma Society (1)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

*English version at the top. Portuguese version at the bottom.*

First of all, I want to thank my girlfriend Tamara, for her patience in reading this text and helping me to cut long unnecessary snippets, Tor for the kindness of referring me for this interview and you for accepting this nomination and for your kind help with the translation review.

As much as possible, I tried to synthesize and simplify, but whenever it was necessary to decide between the shortest and the most correct answer, I chose the one that seemed to me the most correct. As a result, I ended up going longer than I would have liked and branching out some answers for details that apparently lose link to the question, but are actually indirectly connected by two, three, or more nodes, so that if those snippets were removed , there would be gaps that would compromise coherence.

Before presenting the answers, it is necessary to make some important clarifications: when the question is simple, it is enough to give a short answer so that the interpretation is univocal, but for complex questions, before answering it is necessary to conceptualize some of the terms used, to minimize the differences. between the message to be transmitted and the interpretation that will be made of it. A question like “Why, in chess, aren’t all doubled pawns weaknesses?” There is no way to answer in a way that gives a correct idea in just 1 or 2 paragraphs, not even if the answer was simplified and summarized. To try to provide a reasonably correct and complete idea, at least 20 pages are needed, with several examples commented. In this interview, some questions involve similar situations.

This kind of difficulty is inherent in any question involving IQ, because the concept currently disseminated has some flaws that need to be properly revised, and some of these revisions are not trivial, requiring a considerable amount of preliminary clarification to ensure that the interpretation of the answer is sufficiently accurate and reliable.

Outside of high IQ societies, it is common for people to confuse scales with different standard deviations. James Woods’ SAT score 1579 is often converted to 180, while Bill Gates’ 1590 score is converted to 154 (sometimes 160), and both appear on the same list as if Woods’ IQ was higher than Gates’, although it is the opposite. This kind of primary error has all but been eradicated in high-IQ societies, but there are still systematic errors being ostensibly repeated, some of which are large and serious. These errors cause a lot of confusion and make it difficult to correctly interpret fundamental questions. I am not referring to individual mistakes, made by a few people, but to “institutionalized” mistakes, universally accepted as if they were right and made by practically everyone.

In 2000, I solved a central problem in Psychometrics that had been dragging on since the 1950s, when Thurstone and Gardner realized the importance of standardizing cognitive tests in order to produce proportion-scale scores. Bob Seitz of Mega Society referred to this problem as “The Holy Grail of Psychometry”. After investigating this issue and resolving it, I published an article describing my method and showing how tests should be standardized. I also reviewed the Mega Test and Titan Test standards using this method. In 2003, I applied the same method to Sigma Test and published another, more detailed article, describing the entire standardization process step-by-step and explaining the reasons why this procedure is superior to the methods used. Among the chronic problems that are solved naturally with the application of this method, one of the most important is the correction in the calculations of percentiles and rarity levels. This is a systematic error that has been made since 1905. I will comment on this question in a little more detail in answering questions dealing with this topic.

There are two other mistakes that are made systematically, although the solutions to them are already known but are not applied, in part because these problems are not well understood: the problem of construct validity and the problem of the adequacy of the level of difficulty of the questions. to the level of intelligence that is intended to be measured. In a way, these problems are connected, because tests generally have good construct validity for a given range of skill levels, but not for the entire range in which the test is intended to measure, so the results turn out to be reasonably accurate and reliable for people whose scores are within the validity range, but begin to show serious distortions outside this range. A classic example to illustrate this problem is the Stanford-Binet V. The cognitive processes required to solve the BLS questions may be appropriate for correctly measuring intelligence in the range of 60 to 140, but begin to be less appropriate between 140 and 150 , so scores above 150 are already predominantly representing a latent trait that is not what was intended to be measured. This completely compromises the validity of this type of instrument for measurement above 150, and puts in doubt the extent to which scores between 140 and 150 are actually reflecting the intellectual level.

To better organize the information, before proceeding I will mention 3 important mistakes that are systematically made by professional psychometrists and in high IQ societies:

  1. The way in which tests are standardized, both clinical tests and high range IQ tests (hrIQts) – either through the use of Item Response Theory or Classical Test Theory – produces distortions in the scale, and the way in which the percentiles are calculated leads to results that are very far from reality. This distortion in the scale has already been pointed out since the 1950s, by Thurstone, and had already been noticed (although not described) by Binet himself in 1905. A good method for normalizing intelligence tests should produce scores on a scale of proportion, but IQ scores are presented on an ordinal scale ( https://www.questionpro.com/blog/nominal-ordinal-interval-ratio/ ). In addition, errors in the calculations of rarity levels present very large distortions in the highest scores, reaching more than 3 orders of magnitude. This is because the calculations start from the incorrect assumption that the distribution of IQs is Gaussian throughout. The morphology of the distribution is in fact very similar to that of a Gaussian in the range -2σ to +2σ, but it starts to break down outside this range. This fact cannot be overlooked when calculating percentiles. The way the calculations are currently done by psychometricians and in high-IQ communities, results are far from correct. Therefore, when talking about the 99.9999% percentile or IQ 176 (σ=16), the meanings are very different, although they are used as if they were the same thing. The correct rarity for IQ=176 is not 1 in 983,000, but 1 in 24,500. And this does not happen because the standard deviation is greater. The standard deviation is the same (16 in this example), but the right tail is denser than in a normal distribution, making higher scores more abundant than would be expected if the distribution were exactly Gaussian. This is a problem related to the morphology of the true distribution, which does not fit the theoretical model of normal distribution. In fact, it doesn’t fit any of the 100+ distributions tested well, including the more versatile ones like the 3-parameter Weibull distribution.
  2. Another problem is that the difficulty level of the most difficult questions of each test is not compatible with the nominal ceiling of the test. As a consequence, such a test proves to be inappropriate for the range of IQs it should measure. The test works properly within a certain range, in which it contains questions of compatible difficulty, but fails to function outside that range. This is much more serious in clinical trials, where the ceiling of difficulty rarely exceeds 135 to 140, but the nominal ceiling can reach more than 200 (Stanford-Binet V, for example). Above 140, clinical tests measure how fast you can solve elementary problems, which is not necessarily an appropriate metric for representing intelligence at the highest levels. In hrIQt cases, in the “difficulty” question, questions are usually appropriate up to about 170 or 180, but not much higher. Here it would be necessary to open a long parenthesis to discuss the meaning of these scores, because up to 130 or a little above, the theoretical rarity is almost equal to the true rarity, but for 140, 150 and above, the theoretical rarity becomes more and more distant. of true rarity. So when we talk about 180 of IQ (σ=16), it is not enough to inform the standard deviation. In addition, it is necessary to inform if we are talking about the score measured in a test or if it is a true percentile converted into IQ. If the distribution of IQs were exactly Gaussian across their spectrum, then an IQ of 180 (σ=16) should correspond to a rarity level of 1 in 3,500,000, but the true rarity of 180 scores is around 1 in 48,000. Later I mention a link in which I describe how to get to that 1 in 48,000 rarity level.
  3. Another problem is related to construct validity, that is, whether what the test is measuring is in fact what it is intended to measure. The best clinical tests (WAIS and SB) are very good at this criterion for the range of 70 to 130, because this topic has been widely debated among good psychometricians for decades and some good criteria have been established to assess (albeit subjectively) whether the items are measuring what they should be measuring (intelligence, in this case, or the g factor). However, outside this range of 70 to 130, the measured variable becomes increasingly different from what was intended to be measured. In hrIQts the range is a little longer, it reaches around 160, some tests reach 170 or even 180.

In addition to these 3 issues that are seen in virtually all clinical trials and all hrIQts, there are also some individual issues, which are more basic and only affect some specific tests, such as inflated norm, template errors, misstatements, etc. I will not deal with those, because they are already well known and easy to identify and correct.

It is important not to confuse construct validity with difficulty level adequacy. A very elementary issue, with a very short time frame to resolve, may have adequate difficulty to measure at the 1 in 10 million rarity level, because although it is inherently easy, as the time frame is reduced, it ends up being difficult to resolve within that time frame. In such cases, the difficulty may be appropriate for measuring something at very high levels of rarity, but this latent trait being measured is not what it should be measuring. Furthermore, the fact that a test has construct validity in a given interval does not imply that it will necessarily have validity at levels far above or far below that interval. This is one of the most common mistakes, because validating an intelligence test for 98% of the population does not guarantee that it will continue to correctly measure intelligence at the level of the highest 1% or 0.1% of scores. Validation needs to be careful at all intervals at which the test is intended to be able to measure correctly.

There are also some more subtle issues. The Raven Standard Progressive Matrices, for example, have been used by Mensa in several countries for decades, but are inadequate to correctly measure above 120, perhaps even above 115. The reason is that the test consists of 60 questions, but only 1 or 2 of these questions (the most difficult ones) are useful to discriminate at the level of 133, which is where Mensa intends to select. So it is as if only 2 of the 60 questions were used, and a sample with only 2 elements cannot be considered statistically valid. In fact, the cut-off at 133 is not exactly determined by 1 or 2 questions, but these 2 questions account for over 90% of the test’s discriminating power at this cut-off level.

For these reasons, if there is a sincere interest in IQ questions getting answers that are representative of reality, these three problems need to be fixed:

  1. Unfounded extrapolation of construct validity;
  2. Inadequacy of the difficulty of the items for the intellectual level that the test intends to measure;
  3. Adoption of incorrect hypotheses about the shape of the distribution of scores at the highest levels, based on the shape in the region close to the central tendency.

In addition to these, there are other points that need to be clarified. There is a widespread myth that clinically applied tests are “better” (more reliable, more accurate, more reliable) than hrIQts. In some cases, they really are. But not at all. For scores below 130, supervised tests are standardized based on larger, unselected samples. This constitutes a real advantage of clinical trials compared to hrIQts. Another advantage is that good psychometricians know a greater number of statistical techniques, so in the range from 70 to 130, the best supervised tests usually produce more reliable scores. However, above 130, and especially above 140, supervised tests present several problems, starting with the inadequate ceiling of difficulty. The most difficult WAIS questions, for example, are too easy for them to measure intelligence above 135. Another problem is that the construct validity of supervised tests is designed for the range of 70 to 130, not applying as well outside of that range.

I made a simulated example to show what the construct variable problem consists of:

The blue line represents the latent trait [*] that we would like to measure (intelligence or g-factor or something). The red circles represent the scores obtained in the test converted into IQ. In the range between 0 and 120, the measured scores are very good representations of the latent trait, because the points are distributed closely close to the blue line, indicating a strong correlation between the variable we would like to measure and the variable we are actually measuring. [*https://dictionary.apa.org/latent-trait-theory, https://www.jstor.org/stable/1434009%5D

From 120 onwards, and especially from 130 onwards, the red circles begin to move further and further away from the blue line, indicating that the correlation between the variable we would like to measure and the variable that is actually being measured becomes more and more weak, so what we are measuring is becoming less and less representative of what we would like to measure. If you consider the entire range from 0 to 200, or even from 70 to 200, the correlation still looks strong, but that’s only because the range 70 to 120 is contained within the range 70 to 200, and as in the range 70 to 120 the correlation is strong, this improves the average correlation of the entire range from 70 to 200, but when considering exclusively the correlation between 130 and 200, it is noticed that the correlation is weak in this region and becomes weaker for the scores taller. Therefore, for scores above 130, what matters is not the global correlation, but the local correlation.

On IQ tests like the Stanford-Binet, for example, some very fast people with a true IQ of 150 can score 190 or more as a consequence of the problem described above. The opposite effect can also happen, and people with a true IQ of 190, if they are very slow, can score 150, 140 or even less. The size of errors can reach really high levels, both for more than correct and for less than correct, which is why construct validity [*] is an extremely important issue. [*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Construct_validity]

A test that has good construct validity should behave like the one shown in the graph below, in which the red circles remain close to the blue line throughout the entire spectrum within which it is intended to measure:

Of course, if the sample has a normal distribution, the data will be distributed approximately like an ellipse, not like a line that was represented above, but for didactic purposes this example needs to be like this to be visually clearer the increase in the amplitude of the dispersion of the measures in relative to the latent trait we would like to measure. It is also worth emphasizing that, in the real world, situations like the one in the graph above practically do not exist, because the alignment is too good. But it is desirable that the measured scores be able to provide good representations for the latent trait within as wide a range as possible.

In supervised IQ tests, used in clinics, disparities usually start to become serious from 130 and especially from 140, that is, what the test measures above 140 is no longer a good representation of Intelligence. In the cases of the best hrIQts, the scores remain reasonably good representations of the latent trait up to IQ 160 or so.

A test may have questions of an appropriate difficulty level, but what the questions are measuring may not be intelligence. Or it may happen that the measured variable is intelligence, but only within a specific range (as in the first graph). Some puzzles for children, for example, can be effective in correctly measuring the mental age range of 8 to 16 years, or 50 to 100 IQ on an adult scale, but if you use these same puzzles to try to measure the Adult IQs above 160 or 170, the result will be disastrous, because the ability to quickly solve these puzzles cannot be interpreted as a good representation of intelligence at this level. Therefore, the type of problem needs to be compatible with the intellectual level that is intended to be measured.

Generally, the smartest people are also quicker to solve basic questions, but the fact that they solve simple questions quickly does not offer a good guarantee that the person will also be able to solve more complex, deep questions that require creativity. In addition, the fact that a person is able to solve complex, deep questions that require creativity does not provide a good guarantee that he will be able to quickly solve basic questions. As the tests used in clinics exclusively include basic questions, the effect shown in Graph 1 ends up being very frequent.

This issue is discussed in more detail in the introductory text of Sigma Test Extended.

It is also necessary to standardize the meanings of some terms that I will use in the answers:

rIQ = rarity IQ, or IQ (σ=16 G), or rIQ (σ=16 G)

pIQ = Potential IQ, or IQ (σ=16 T), or pIQ (σ=16 T)

Detailed explanations can be found at https://www.sigmasociety.net/escalasqi . Here I will give a brief explanation: rIQ is the value that the IQ would have converted from the true rarity. This is not IQ measured on IQ tests or hrIQts. The measured IQ is the pIQ, whose distribution is non-Gaussian, the distribution has a dense tail, so the pIQ scores are more abundant than predicted based on the normality assumption of the distribution. This has nothing to do with the standard deviation being larger. The standard deviation is the same. The shape of the distribution is different, concentrating more cases in the right tail and less in the central region. In regions close to the central tendency, pIQ is almost equal to rIQ and remains so until about 130. From then on, pIQ becomes greater than rIQ. Some examples:

rIQ 100 is equivalent to pIQ 100.00

rIQ 130 is equivalent to pIQ 130.87

rIQ 150 is equivalent to pIQ 156.59

rIQ 180 is equivalent to pIQ 204.93

(A complete table is available on the Sigma Test Extended page)

The difference between pIQ and rIQ increases as rIQ increases, because the proportion at which the actual tail density becomes greater than the theoretical density increases as the IQ moves away from the mean.

When comparing estimated IQs based on rarity with IQs measured in tests, it is critical to put both on the same scale. For example, let’s say Newton is considered the smartest person in history and let’s say the number of people ever born is 100 billion. Then Newton’s IQ estimated based on rarity and based on the assumption that the distribution of scores is normal would be rIQ=207.3 (σ=16, G). But the actual distribution of scores is not normal, so you cannot compare that 207.3 with a score of 207 measured in a test, because they are on different scales. Both may have the same standard deviation (16 in this case), but the shape of the distribution is different and this cannot be neglected because the distortion produced is gigantic.

Newton’s rIQ would be 207.3 but his pIQ would be 261.8. To repeat: both scores have a standard deviation of 16, both rIQ and pIQ. This process should not be confused with changing scales with different standard deviations. The standard deviations are the same, but the shape of the curve is different. I’m repeating this several times because I’ve seen people confuse this just a paragraph after it’s been cleared up.

This adjustment is necessary to correct the distortions of the norms and to allow the correct calculation of rarities from the scores measured in the tests, or the inverse process of calculating the IQ from the rarity level.

Thus, the person with the highest rIQ (σ=16 G) in a population of 7.9 billion has rIQ 201.2, which is equivalent to pIQ (σ=16 T) 247.8. The scores 201.2 (σ=16 G) and 247.8 (σ=16 T) are equivalent, as 0 o C and 32 o F. The use of the term rIQ is equivalent to the use of the term IQ (σ=16 G), while the use of the term pIQ is equivalent to the use of the term (σ=16 T). I can also eventually use rIQ (σ=16 G) or pIQ (σ=16 T).

So tests can (and do) produce scores above 200 with a standard deviation of 15 or 16, but the correct calculation of rarity levels or percentiles should not be performed the way it has been done for decades. The percentile and rarity calculations are wrong, as I’ve demonstrated since my 2000 papers on this. I’m not referring to tests with inflated standards. Of course, this problem becomes more serious when the norms are inflated, but even when the norms have been calculated properly, as in the cases of the Mega Test or Titan Test norm, both the Hoeflin version and the Grady Towers version both provide incorrect values for the percentiles. The IQ scores are very close to the “correct” values, which would be the values adjusted to a well-standardized range scale. The problem is not with the measured IQs, but with the percentiles calculated based on the incorrect assumption that these scores are normally distributed. This topic will be analyzed again at other times, in more detail, when the topics covered require it. For now, this introduction should be enough to clear up much of the confusion that occurs with the indiscriminate use of the term “IQ”, without making the correct distinction between pIQ and rIQ.

When Chris Harding was registered in the 1966 Guinness Book with an IQ of 197, based on his Stanford-Binet results, this was a relatively primary and serious error because it incurs all 3 problematic items I cited above: SB does not include questions difficult enough to correctly measure above 135; the cognitive processes required in the solutions are not appropriate for IQs above 150; the calculated rarity level is incorrect.

In 1966, the world population was 3.41 billion people, and the theoretical level of rarity for scores 197, assuming the distribution of scores was a Gaussian with a mean of 100 and a standard deviation of 16, was 1 in 1.49 billion. So it seemed plausible that a person with that score could be proclaimed the smartest person in the world, or at least the person with the highest IQ in the world. However, a correct analysis of the situation reveals that the SB score of 197 does not indicate a rarity level of 1 in 1,490,000,000, but 1 in 870,000 (about 2000 times more abundant). Also, the variable measured at the rarity level of 1 in 870,000 is not intelligence. At this juncture, the most that could be said on the basis of a SB score of 197 is that the person showed consistent evidence of having an intellectual level above 135 IQ, and as their nominal score was well above 135, there is a good chance that their The correct IQ is greater than 150, perhaps greater than 160, but it would be necessary to prescribe a complementary exam, with more difficult questions and with appropriate construct validity, to investigate the real intellectual level of this person, since scores above 135 are outside the range at which the test is able to measure correctly.

In the following years, several other people began to emerge claiming the same record, with scores of 196-197. This continued until 1978, when the situation worsened, first with Kim Ung-Yong scoring 210, then Marilyn vos Savant scoring 230, corrected to 228, then corrected to 218, and finally Keith Raniere , in 1989, scoring 242. All based on clinical tests that are not suitable for correctly measuring above 135.

A similar problem happened to Langan in the Mega Test. The difficulty level of the Mega Test questions is suitable for correctly measuring up to about pIQ 194, equivalent to about rIQ 177, which corresponds to a rarity level of 1 in 1,340,000. This is the realistic rarity level corresponding to the Mega Test ceiling. In 2000 I had calculated a ceiling of pIQ 186 for the Mega Test, equivalent to rIQ 169, hence a rarity level of 1 in 124,000, but I was basing it on the sample of 520 tests available on Miyaguchi’s website. However, this sample is not representative of the set of more than 4,000 people examined with the Mega Test. This sample is stratified by 10 out of 10 (10 people with each IQ when possible). That is why there is a concentration of high scores above the “correct”, causing the difficulty of the items, especially the most difficult items (which is determined by the proportion between errors and hits) to end up being lower than the correct one, since there are more people with higher scores, there will be a higher percentage of hits than if the entire sample had been considered. Another factor is that even considering all the more than 4,000 people evaluated by the Mega Test, there is a self-selection that produces a higher concentration of people with high scores than that observed among the general population. With these two complementary adjustments, I redid my calculations for this standard and arrived at the numbers I cited above.

Therefore, with a raw score of 47/48, obtained by Langan on his second attempt, the corresponding rIQ is 176, equivalent to pIQ 192, that is, a rarity level of approximately 1 in 983,000. The actual rarity level of Mega Society is around 1 in 62,000 and Prometheus 1 in 8,000. In the cases of ISPE, TNS, etc., as they are in a range where the distortions are smaller, the true rarity is also closer to the theoretical rarity. 1 in 600. And in the case of Intertel and Mensa, they are practically unaffected. The theoretical percentile 98.04% for pIQ 133 score is equivalent to rIQ 131.8, therefore percentile 97.66%.

There are two other points I would like to comment on in this introductory text, before proceeding: on the meaning of “intelligence” and on the meaning of “certificate”, but the text has become too long and it is perhaps better to remove it, as well as other parts of some answers. Anyway, I’ve saved the full text in a separate file, in case it has any additional use or to be used on another occasion.

Having made these clarifications, we can now begin the answers.

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: When you were growing up, what were some of the prominent family stories being told over time?

Hindemburg Melão Jr.: I’m not very interested in stories.

Jacobsen: Did these stories help give a sense of an extended self or a sense of family legacy?

Melão Jr.: My grandparents were very poor, my father only studied until the second year of elementary school (2nd year). He was exceptionally intelligent, creative, had hypermnesia and a wide range of intellectual and kinesthetic talents. This allowed him to lift himself out of extreme poverty and provide a satisfying environment for his children, but not much else. My parents’ legacy is almost exclusively genetic.

Jacobsen: What was the family background, eg geography, culture, language and religion or lack thereof?

Melão Jr.: My maternal great-grandfather was a native Indian of Brazil, my paternal great-grandfather was Portuguese. My family was Catholic at the time I was born, but later they converted to Kardecism, preserving some Catholic habits. I became an atheist at approximately 11 years old, then an agnostic at 17 and a deist at 27. I was interested in the Bahá’í Faith for some time, but did not participate in any activities. I am writing a book dealing with Science and Religion, in which I cover some of these topics in more detail.

Jacobsen: How was the experience with peers and schoolmates as a child and teenager?

Melão Jr.: It was reasonably quiet, I had no problems with bullying that could be associated with discrimination on cognitive grounds. I was bullied for other reasons, because I had my eyebrows together, but nothing that caused me great embarrassment, even because I had been practicing martial arts since I was 7 years old, so if I thought they were crossing the line, I reacted in a different way. energetically and that kept them from bothering me again

My problems were with some teachers more than colleagues, because I had the incorrect view that teachers couldn’t make mistakes in their discipline, but in the real world it’s very different from that. Virtually every teacher made several mistakes every day, and I used to point out the most serious mistakes. Most of them reacted positively to it, some were grateful for the corrections and revised it immediately, but others did not accept this type of correction, especially when it came from a 7 or 8 year old. A remarkable episode occurred in a Geography class, when I was 9 years old, and the teacher asked the students to calculate the size of the Brazilian coast. When I started to perform the task, I realized that it didn’t make sense, because the measurement would depend on the level of detail of the map, so there was no possible answer. So I explained the problem to her, but she didn’t understand my explanation. She thought I was referring to the map being on a different scale than its actual size. So I explained again, but it didn’t help, she still didn’t understand, got angry and ended up acting oppressive, ordering me to shut up, and continued to “teach” incorrectly. It was a very unpleasant episode. Usually the errors that I identified were errors of the professors, but in this case it was much more serious, because it was an institutionalized error and accepted as if it was correct by the “authorities” in that discipline, it was wrong in the book and probably in all other books, being incorrectly taught to all students. In fact, this remains wrong to this day, 40 years later, in virtually every source on the subject, including Wikipedia, Encyclopedia Britannica, IBGE, Cia World Factbook, US Bureau of Labor Statistics, etc. The problem is not that the measurement number is wrong. The problem is that the question does not make sense because there is no “length” of the coastline, there is no possible answer with dimension 1, because the perimeter has a dimension greater than 1 and less than 2. Although it was unpleasant, it was also a problem. event that I remember with pride, for having deduced one of the fundamentals of Fractal Geometry, impromptu, at the age of 9.

Jacobsen: What are some of the certifications, qualifications and professional training you have obtained?

Melão Jr.: The primary purpose of certifications should be to certify that a certain person or entity fulfills requirements that would not be easily verifiable by a person from the general population. For example, an uneducated person would find it difficult to correctly assess whether a doctor is capable of treating their health, or to decide whether it would be better to receive treatment from an allopathic method or from a healer. That is why there are regulatory bodies, made up of experienced and supposedly competent specialists, which establish norms that theoretically should be necessary and sufficient to distinguish between qualified and unqualified professionals, protecting the less educated population against the provision of unsatisfactory or even unsatisfactory services and products. harmful. This is nice in theory, but in practice it doesn’t work so well, and the certification industry ends up serving other purposes, including market reserve, nepotism, the cult of vanity and egolatry.

Certificates often do not fulfill the function for which they were created, either approving insufficiently skilled people/entities , or failing to approve overqualified people. For this reason, it would be more important and fairer to examine actual achievements, competences and merits, rather than examining certifications that would recognize these merits, because merits have intrinsic value, while certifications are mere appearances that they sometimes try to represent. the merits, but they don’t always get it right.

There is even a large industry for trading fraudulent certificates, and little enforcement over it. The American Biographical Institute (ABI) is famous for selling worthless certifications, and has been operating since 1967. There are many similar bodies that specialize in printing beautiful certificates, promoting certification ceremonies, and so on. Usually people who consume these products are naive victims, but it is also possible that some people buy these certificates knowing what they mean (or don’t mean).

Wikipedia has the following description for the ABI:

“The American Biographical Institute (ABI) was a paid-inclusion vanity biographical reference directory publisher based in Raleigh, North Carolina which had been publishing biographies since 1967. It generated revenue from sales of fraudulent certificates and books. Each year the company awarded hundreds of “Man of the Year” or “Woman of the Year” awards at between $195 and $295 each.”

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Biographical_Institute

There are currently several PO Box universities handing out Ph.D. Like water. I watched some statements from people who bought these titles, the vast majority of these people really believed they had some value and were excited, happy and proud to receive the title. But maybe not everyone is naive and some understand that these titles don’t represent something real, but use it for obscure purposes. There is a member of mensa brasil who has more than 50 academic titles from a PO Box university, founded in 2021, but on the “institution” website he claims to have been founded in 2006. I find it funny, and at the same time sad, that journalists who publish the articles about this do not suspect that a 40-year-old person, who only had 1 B.Sc. by 2020, it suddenly had more than 50 academic degrees in 2022, including several Ph.Ds. and postdocs. In addition to the certificates purchased, this person also claims that TNS is the most exclusive high-IQ society in the world, he uses his IQ with a standard deviation of 24 to compare with a fictitious “IQ” of 160 attributed to Einstein, among other things, and journalists publish everything without checking.

There are also people who buy these certificates, knowing they are worthless, with no intention of making dishonest use, perhaps as a table decoration or something. For example, Chris Harding is a customer of ABI, he has acquired several titles from that company, as he declares in his profile on the OlympIQ Society. Harding has some real merits, because even though the SB doesn’t correctly rate above 140, it is recognized that this test assesses some sort of skill mixed with intelligence, and few people achieve Harding’s score on this exam. So while some certificates are purchased from him, others are based on real merit and issued by serious institutions, such as those related to his IQ records and his affiliations to high-IQ societies. However, even reputable certificates, which try to represent true merits, often attest to something that is not a good representation of reality. As I mentioned at the beginning, the SB score of 197 or 196 could not be interpreted the way it was, and the official reports and certificates issued are saying something that represents a collective belief, but very different from concrete reality.

Harding is very smart, but not based on the score he got in the SB, but based on his various opinions on different subjects. His real merits are in his essence, in his actions, in his thoughts, not in pieces of paper.

From the moment a person channels his thoughts and actions to produce something concrete, he begins to share his essence with the world, disseminating knowledge and wisdom, or disseminating futility and misinformation, depending on the quality of what he shares. And the perception that other people have of what she shared will depend not only on the quality of what she externalized, but also on the sensitivity and insight of the person receiving the information. If a brilliant person disseminates knowledge of a very high level among a very futile audience, the value of that knowledge will not be recognized and he will have no certifications, no awards, nor any recognition, while other people who are disseminating vulgar and shallow knowledge, compatible with the public that receives it and issues the certifications, that person will be acclaimed and glorified.

People are not rewarded or certified because their achievements are great, but because their achievements are perceived as great by the members of the committees responsible for the approval of awards and certifications. In addition, there are a number of other political, social, racial, etc. biases that interfere with the decisions of committee members, making certifications and awards even more inconsistent with the objective they should have.

This effect occurs, for example, in some Cooijmans tests, where the test does not measure IQ, but rather how similar the person’s IQ is compared to the Cooijmans IQ. If the person has the same IQ as Cooijmans, he will have a maximum score. If she has an IQ much higher or much lower than Cooijmans’ IQ, her score will be low. In the question about IQ tests, I comment in more detail on this problem.

I will cite a few striking examples, some quite well known, but they are worth recalling. I believe that one of the most tragic and striking is that of Galileo, who instead of being rewarded for his remarkable contributions to the understanding of the Universe, he was severely punished. In fact, his daughter Celeste ended up being punished in his place. In more recent times, one of the cases that I find very sad is that of George Zweig, who developed his Theory of Aces at the same time that Murray Gell-Mann developed the Theory of Quarks. Both were essentially the same, however the journal to which Zweig submitted his paper refused to publish it, while Gell-Mann’s paper won him the Nobel Prize in Physics. There are at least 45 known cases of controversial Nobel prizes, of people who received undeserving or deserved it but did not. The world’s most respected award is desecrated by dozens of injustices, perhaps hundreds if you consider the ones that have not been discovered. Even Einstein is one of the biggest victims, since he deserved to have received 5 Nobel prizes, however he received only 1, for racial, xenophobic, Nazi reasons etc.

I believe that now I can answer this question by dividing it into two parts:

  1. Awards and certifications.
  2. Merits so far not recognized.

I have few certificates. When I was young, I was in the habit of putting trophies and medals in Chess, Martial Arts, Arts Education, etc. on a shelf, but during one of the changes of address, one of my trophies broke. Initially I was sad, because they were important to me. But as I thought more about the “disaster,” I realized that they really didn’t matter. What really mattered were the merits that led me to win those awards, as well as some merits that were not awarded. There were also cases in which I had no merit, but had been awarded due to some fateful fate. That doesn’t mean I’m not a vain person. I am, but I’ve learned that most of the time you get nothing or almost nothing for something valuable, while other times you get more than what’s fair for something of little or even worthless. Unfortunately, the world rewards appearances much more than essence.

One of my few certificates is the world record holder for longest announced mate in simultaneous blind chess, recorded in the 1998 Guinness Book. Perhaps some people are not familiar with the meaning of “blind chess” and “announced mate ”. This video helps to understand the dynamics of a blind simultaneous: https://youtu.be/LUo89Cl9FPY . It’s an old, low quality video, but to exemplify the mechanism of the event, I think it’s appropriate:

I will give a brief description: in a simultaneous, one person (simultanist) plays at the same time against several opponents (simultaneously), each of which has its own board. It is different from a consultation game, where several players can consult each other on a single board and decide on the best move by voting. In a simulcast, each simulcast has its own board and each game follows its own course.

In this case, as it is a blind simultaneous, the simultanist does not have visual access to any of the boards, nor to the pieces, nor to the summaries, nor to any type of record of moves or positions. At no time may the simultanist look at any of the boards, nor request any information that helps him to remember the positions of the pieces, nor any specific piece, nor that helps him to remember the order of the moves, nor any other type of information that can in some way help with the matches. The position of each of the pieces on each of the boards is registered exclusively in the simultanist’s memory and these positions are mentally updated with each move. In addition, at each move the simultanist needs to make the calculations of the variants and sub-variants necessary to make his decisions about the move to be executed, taking care not to confuse the memories of the calculated variants with the memories of the variants actually played, among others. care.

The game develops as follows: the simultanist stands with his back to the boards and communicates his moves to an assistant (speaker), who executes each simultanist move on the respective board. Then, the simultaneous player on that board executes his answer on the board and the speaker verbally communicates to the simultaneous player which move was executed by that simultaneous player. Then the speaker moves to the next board, where again the simultaneous player declares his move and this is executed on that board by the speaker, etc.

There are easier (or less difficult) versions, in which the player can blindly access a list with all the moves noted, as in Melody Amber’s tournaments, in which, in addition to being individual games, instead of simultaneous , competitors can also see an empty board, which facilitates calculations and reduces the risk of forgetting the position of a piece. But under the strictest rules, as in my 1997 Guinness record, it was not allowed to have access to the move history, nor to see an empty board, nor any other similar kind of aid. It is equivalent to being blindfolded all the time, from start to finish of the event.

That record set in 1997 was a blind simultaneous to 9 boards, in one of which I announced mate in 12 moves. The average rating of my opponents was estimated at around 1400. I got 7 wins, 1 draw and 1 loss.

Previous record holders were: Joseph Henry Blackburne (mate in 8 moves in a 10-board blind match in the year 1877), Samuel Rosenthal (mate in 8 moves in a 4-board blind match in the year 1885) and Garry Kasparov (mate in 8 moves in a blind simultaneous to 8 boards, in the year 1985). There was also an event in 1899, in which Harry Nelson Pillsbury announced mate at 8 in a 10-board blind simultaneous, but there was a miscount. Following the sequence dictated by Pillsbury, mate took place in 7 moves.

In the case of Kasparov, there are some details that need to be clarified: he played a blind simul against the 8 best computers of the time, including the world champion Mephisto Amsterdam 68000 RISC 12MHz. The average rating of these machines was about 1500 and the best reached 1800. The best computer in the world in 1985 was precisely the Mephisto Amsterdam, whose rating published by the manufacturer was 2265, but later measured by SSDF in 1827 (based on 1020 matches). In the match against Mephisto Amsterdam, Kasparov played a beautiful combination with an 8-moves mate streak, but there is no record of him having announced the mate. In any case, as he sacrificed a Rook and two pieces at the start of the combination, it is clear that he correctly calculated the entire sequence.

In 2005, Rede Globo did a report for the program “Fantástico” celebrating 100 years of IQ tests, and I was nominated as the person with the highest IQ in Brazil, at the level of 1 in 200 million. This is an example of “recognition” that I’m not sure was correctly assigned. In the question about IQ, I discuss this subject in more detail.

Recently, my friend Domagoj Kutle honored me with a kind invitation to publish in his excellent magazine Deus VULT, and requested that I also send a short biography. My girlfriend Tamara kindly helped me craft this material, including some of my accomplishments. I think this would fit here, so I’ll paste the text:

Melao mini-bio, by Tamara Rodrigues:

Hindemburg Melao Jr. was born in Brazil, in a family with few resources, and only attended school until the 11th grade, having learned almost completely as self-taught.

In 1998 he was registered in the Guinness Book as the holder of the world record for longest announced checkmate in blindfold simultaneous chess games.

Between 2006 and 2010 he developed an artificial intelligence system to trade in the Financial Market; in 2015, his friend and partner Joao A.L.J. incorporated a hedge fund to use this system and started to be registered in fund rankings (BarclayHedge, IASG and Preqin), winning 21 international high performance awards.

In 2007, Melao solved a problem that had been unsatisfactorily solved for 22 years, by creating an index to measure performance adjusted at risk that was more accurate, more predictive and conceptually better founded than the traditional indexes of William Sharpe (Nobel prize 1990) and Franco Modigliani (Nobel 1985).

In 2003 he solved a 160+ year old problem by proposing a new formula for calculating BMI, superior to the traditional one and superior to the formula proposed in 2013 by Nick Trefethen, Chief of the Dept. of Numerical Analysis at the University of Oxford, Leslie Fox Prize(1985), FRS prize, (2005), IMA Gold Medal (2010). Trefethen’s 2013 formula is an incomplete version of Melao’s 2003 formula.

In 2000 Melao developed the first method for standardization of intelligence tests that produces scores in scale of ratio and in 2003 he applied this method in the Sigma Test norm (he also calculated new norms for Mega and Titan tests using the same method), thereby solving a problem of Psychometry that exists more than 90 years ago and was pointed by Thurstone and Gardner as a central question of Psychometry more than 45 years ago.

In 2002 Melao found the best solution to a problem that has existed for more than 520 years and had been attacked for more than 65 years, the Shannon Number, which was only matched in 2014 by Stefan Steinerberger, professor of mathematics at Yale University.

In 2015 Melao showed that the method recommended by the Nobel Prize in Economics Harry Markowitz, for portfolio optimization, has some flaws, and proposed some improvements that make this method more efficient and safer.

In 2021 Melao pointed out flaws in the recommendation of the 2003 Nobel Prize in Economics, Clive Granger, regarding the use of the concept of cointegration, and presented a more adequate solution to the same problem.

In 2022, Melao solved a problem that had been open for 16 years, in which he established a method for calculating chess ratings based on the quality of the moves. Also presented an improved version of the Elo system, applying both methods to calculate the ratings of more than 100,000 players between years 1475 and 2021, the results were published in a book, along with the description of the two methods.

At 9 years old Melao deduced one of the fundamentals of Fractal Geometry and at 13 he developed a method to calculate logarithms. At age 19 he developed a method for calculating factorials of decimal numbers without using Calculus.

Also at the age of 19 (1991) he developed an invisibility machine project, which in 1993 he inscribe in a contest of ficction Literature (although the project is consistent with Scientific Method), but did not win. In 2003 Susumu Tachi, Emeritus Professor at the University of Tokyo and guest Professor at MIT, created (independently) a simplified version of this project and built a prototype.

In 2020 Hindemburg presented a study showing that Jupiter’s Great Red Spot cannot be 350+ years old, as was believed. The correct age is around 144 years old.

In 2000 Melao had a chess theoretical novelty elected one of the 10 most important in the world by the Sahovski Informator jury, the world champion Anand was one of the judges and Anand’s vote was that this novelty should be the 8th most important.

In 2004 Baran Yonter, founder of Pars Society (IQ>180, σ=16), estimated that Melao IQ should be above 200 (σ=16).

In 2005 the production of the program “Fantástico”, from Globo (second-largest commercial TV network in the world), made a special report on intelligence, celebrating the centenary of the creation of IQ tests, and Melao was nominated as the person with the highest IQ in Brazil, with a rarity level of 1 in 200 million.

In 2009 Melao was nominated by Albert Frank to participate in a John Hallenborg project with people whose IQ is at the rarity level above 1 in 1 million.

In 2000 Melao updated and extended his “Alpha Tests” that he had created in 1991, added new questions, and created the Sigma Test.

In 2022 he extended the Sigma Test by creating the extended version.

Melao is author of more than 1700 articles on Science, Statistics, Psychometrics, Econometrics, Chess, Mathematics, Astronomy, Physics, Cognitive Science, Ethics, Philosophy of Science, History of Science, Education etc.

Detailed bio of Melao (documents, videos, interviews, articles, reports etc.) at: https://www.sigmasociety.net/hm

Although I practiced Martial Arts for several years (maybe ~11 years if you add up all active periods), I didn’t get any certification, because the time was distributed among many different disciplines and I didn’t reach black belt in any of them. But I reached a reasonable technical level. For handguns, maybe I’m in the 99.9% percentile and in the specific case of nunchaku, maybe 99.999%. This is a video from 2016, I was already kind of old and rusty https://youtu.be/jCw–5H34x4 . On the same channel there are also videos with other weapons (sword, tonfa, kama, sam-tien-kuan, etc.).

In 2020 I was invited to a group of the 26 best planetary astrophotographers in Brazil. Although there is no certificate for it, I was very happy because it is one of my favorite hobbies. I would like to take this opportunity to thank my friend Vinícius Martins, who taught me almost everything I know about planetary image processing, I believe that in a short time he will be one of the 5 best astrophotographers in the world, he combines 3 fundamental extraordinary talent, an immense love for this activity and a deep knowledge that is constantly expanded and updated.

Among the certifications that I do not have, one of the most interesting is the CFA, granted to investment managers. It is interesting because between 2006 and 2010 I developed an artificial intelligence system to operate in the Financial Market that between 2015 and 2020, when it was used by a European fund, won 21 international high performance awards in the Barclay’s Hedge, Preqin and IASG rankings, being also the second best investment system in the world between 2011 and 2016. However, I was banned by the CVM from providing management services because I do not have the CFA certificate. In 2014, a petition was made to request that the CVM (Brazilian Capital Markets Regulator) issue me a certificate on an extraordinary basis. The claim was based on the wording of CVM Instruction 306 and on the fact that my system had accumulated more than double the profit of the fund that occupied the first place (ahead of 282 other funds, all managed by certified managers) in the ranking of the InfoMoney, the largest ranking of funds in Brazil. Among the people who signed the petition on my behalf were several university professors, several professional managers, and several members of high-IQ societies, including Dany Provost of Giga Society. However, the claim was not accepted and I still do not have this certificate. By the way, the two most famous managers in the world, Warren Buffett and George Soros, also don’t have a manager certificate, so I’m in good company. Buffett solved this problem by incorporating a company that buys other companies, rather than running a fund. Soros solved the problem by putting his friend Jimmy Rogers as gestures (Jimmy had the necessary certification), I solved the problem by trading licenses to use my system, with a volume limit of application for each license and a renewal period.

Among the certifications I don’t have, I can also include CNH, although I drive outside the law (I’m practically a gangster). I stopped going to school in the 5th grade, then I went back a few times, due to pressure from my parents. I would come back, I would continue enrolled for a few months, I would run out of patience, I would stop again, my parents would pressure me to come back, I would come back again, etc. I finished high school (11th grade) and entered the Physics faculty, but I didn’t like the course and I stopped for good after 2 months. In the first week of class, I reviewed the Physics I textbook and pointed out over 200 errors, sent my comments to the author, with an introductory note trying to be tactful so he wouldn’t be offended, but he never responded. I also pointed out two serious conceptual errors in the methods used in the Physics laboratory, which should impact the results of the experiments; one of them, on the crumpled paper balls, is the same “experiment” carried out in the Mathematics Department at Yale University, where they also make the same mistake. In that case, Prof. Dr. Paulo Reginaldo Pascholati had an honorable conduct, he received my criticisms with humility, he did some experiments to investigate whether the error I indicated was justified, he found that I was right and, in the next class, he publicly admitted the error. I found his conduct exemplary in this regard, however the handout was not corrected and they continued to do the experiment incorrectly.

Anyway, I decided that university was a waste of time and it would be more productive to study on my own, but it’s not that simple, and this decision proved questionable on some occasions. The distance from the academic career has some positive aspects, some negative ones. One of the positive aspects is that I can select my own curriculum, go at my own pace, and delve as deep into each topic as I want. One of the negative aspects is that it becomes more difficult to have access to satisfactory bibliography and even more difficult to publish in indexed journals. In doing so, I practically ostracized myself.

Therefore, certificates are useful, but it is important to understand the limitations and distortions they may present, so as not to run the risk of dealing with them in a bureaucratic way, to the point of being placed above the real capacity verified empirically on a continuous basis. Certificates reflect the opinions of people or institutions that are often not qualified enough to make correct assessments on the merits and to decide impartially. In the example of the CFA, certifications are literally distributed based on excessively condescending criteria, which are far from sufficient to select qualified people to exercise the role of manager, which is why more than 95% of certified managers generate losses for their clients. Perhaps this effect is more noticeable in the Capital Markets than in any other activity, but it also frequently occurs in Journalism, Advertising, Administration, etc., where some people without training in these disciplines may eventually be more qualified than certified people, but for protect the less competent, laws are created that prevent companies from hiring the most competent, using certificates as an instrument of discrimination and apology for mediocrity.

I wrote an extended version of this answer, in which I discuss some failures in the education system in Brazil and in the world, justifying why I moved away from academic life. I also point out and analyze the mistakes made by Richard Lynn in his study of IQs in different countries and explain why it would not be correct to try to justify the educational problem in Brazil based on the supposedly low average IQ of the population, as well as revise the estimate for the IQ average for some countries, including Equatorial Guinea, Israel and Brazil. The text was 10 A4 pages, so I thought it best to put it as an appendix.

Jacobsen: What is the purpose of intelligence tests for you?

Melão Jr.: the most important attribute of living beings is intelligence. Without intelligence there would be no Ethics, Laws, Science or Art. In order to correctly delegate the most important tasks to the most qualified people, it is necessary to correctly identify and rank people according to their abilities. That is why correctly measuring intelligence and using the results as a criterion for assigning positions and tasks, according to the level of competence, is extremely important, but unfortunately this is not what happens. There are two big problems:

  1. The first is that the world is dominated by nepotism;
  2. The second is that there are no appropriate intelligence tests to correctly measure at the highest levels.

In the late 19th century, the first tests by Galton and Cattell failed to satisfactorily measure intelligence, but it was an interesting attempt. The hypothesis that the speed of reflexes, visual acuity, auditory acuity, etc. could be relevant indicative of the intellectual level proved to be inadequate. In 1904, Binet and Otis managed to solve this problem by using questions that required the combined use of various cognitive skills – rather than trying to measure primary aptitudes, as Galton did – but Binet’s tests only measured correctly up to about 140. Terman’s attempts in 1921 to use Binet’s tests to select future geniuses failed. Among the 1528 children selected with an IQ above 135 (more than 70 with an IQ above 177), none won a Nobel or any similar prize, while two of the unselected children won Nobel prizes. The test worked very well until about 130, the selected children published more books, more articles, had a higher average income than the children in the other group, but at the higher levels, the test failed and missed some of the brightest children. The results of this study had an extremely deleterious effect, undermining the credibility of IQ tests in the eyes of the general public and in the eyes of many intellectual exponents from scientific, technological, cultural and educational fields, so it would be important to clarify the limits of until point these tests can measure correctly, so that unrealistic expectations are not created and so that they are not applied incorrectly outside these limits.

In 1973, Kevin Langdon created the LAIT (Langdon Adult Intelligence Test) and with that he managed to raise the difficulty level to close to 170 and the construct validity to 150; In 1985, Ronald Hoeflin took another important step forward with the Mega Test, raising the difficulty level to about pIQ 190 and construct validity to 170, and these contributions broadened the horizons of application of intelligence tests, which previously worked well until the approximate level of 1 in 100, while the new tests started working up to 1 in 100,000. On the other hand, from the 1990s onwards, some fantasy tests began to appear with nominal ceilings that reached 250, although the real ceiling of difficulty did not reach 180 and the ceiling of construct validity was around 150, as the ISIS Test by Paul Cooijmans. Some of these fantasy tests keep popping up to this day, and this exacerbates the prejudice many people have against IQ tests, because if a person has refined critical thinking and a skeptical attitude, he realizes that there are inconsistencies in results like Feynman’s ( 123) and Rosner (193, 196, 198 etc.). Both are very intelligent, and the problems that Feynman solved are more difficult than the problems that Rosner solved, which could be interpreted as indicating that Feynman was more intelligent, so how is it possible for a serious standardized system of evaluation to assign 190+ to Rosner and 123 for Feynman? Something is obviously not right about this, and people often don’t identify exactly where the error is, so they generally conclude that all IQ tests don’t work, or they don’t even know that there is more than one type of IQ test. IQ That’s why clarifying the range in which each type of test works contributes to combating this type of prejudice. If Feynman’s true IQ, based on the difficulty, complexity, and depth of the problems he solved on quantum electrodynamics, superfluids, etc. were put on the same scale that Rosner’s IQ is represented, Feynman’s correct IQ would be close to 235. And to explain this number above 200, I would first have to show that the distribution of scores is not Gaussian, etc. etc. Then that apparent initial inconsistency would disappear and everything would become clearer and more logical. The same is true for Einstein’s fictitious IQ of 160, whose correct value, if placed on the same scale as the scores measured by the tests, would be close to 250.

In 2000, the Sigma Test brought solutions to the 3 problems cited in the introductory text, with the main focus on construct validity, using questions based on real-world problems that require a combination of convergent and divergent thinking at different levels of difficulty, complexity and depth, consistent with the IQ levels to be measured. More recently, the Sigma Test Extended raised the ceiling on difficulty to about pIQ 225 and construct validity to about 210. However, in a population of 7.9 billion, the smartest adult person in the world must have an rIQ of around 210. 201, equivalent to about pIQ 245, thus far outside the limits that STE can measure. Nevertheless, for some of the smartest 100 or 200 people alive, STE could provide reliable measures of real intelligence, with good construct validity at this level, in addition to offering a stimulating intellectual challenge. This would fix some urban legends disseminated in various sources, such as that the average IQ of Nobel laureates in Science is “only” 154. With the use of a properly standardized test, with an appropriate difficulty level and good construct validity, the The average IQ of Nobel Prize winners in Science should be between 170 and 190. With the use of appropriate tests it is possible to correctly reposition the scores, both up and down. This would also overcome some prejudices against IQ tests, because one of the reasons for rejection is precisely due to the bizarre results for Feynman (123), Fischer (123*), Kasparov (123, 135), Shockley (<135), Alvarez ( <135), Feynman’s sister (124), etc., because that takes away the credibility of the tests, as these scores are far more likely to be wrong than these people having IQs below the 1 in a thousand level, when in fact they should be above 1 in 1 million (and Feynman close to 1 in 1 billion). When we can show that tests are able to measure correctly even at very high levels and provide realistic results, consistent with the achievements of these people in real-world problems, we can restore credibility to intelligence tests as serious and reliable instruments capable of to perform one of the most important functions, which is precisely to make early predictions of genius. [*Although many sources mention an IQ of 187, 181, or 180 for Fischer, his 1958 reports show a score of 123]

So while there are no tests capable of correctly measuring at the level needed to pinpoint the smartest person alive, or rank the 10 smartest, there has been substantial progress since Binet’s first tests, and if Terman were alive today and developing the same study from 1921, but starting in 2000, and if he used the STE instead of the SB, most likely the smartest children would all (or almost all) be selected in his group, and the subsequent results would have been confirmatory even at the highest levels, corroborating the thesis he defended, that it is possible to predict genius early, but not with the tests that existed at that time. The thesis itself was correct, as was Leonardo Da Vinci’s helicopter, but the technology still needed to advance a little further for the thesis to have the necessary subsidies to be tested properly.

Jacobsen: When was high intelligence discovered for you?

Melão Jr.: I find it difficult to determine this precisely. The first time I was examined in a clinic, I was 3 years old, but at 6 months of age I was able to speak reasonably fluently, so there was some earlier evidence.

Jacobsen: When you think about the ways in which the geniuses of the past were mocked, vilified and condemned, if not killed, or praised, flattered, plagiarized and revered, what seems to be the reason for the extreme reactions and treatment of geniuses? Many alive today seem camera-shy – many, not all.

Melão Jr.: I don’t think it’s a problem of the past. It is still present in many primitive cultures, such as in Brazil and in several African countries. The vast majority of the population adopts a posture of hostility, envy and boycott not only against geniuses, but against anyone who may be having any kind of success. Recently my girlfriend showed me a video of Ozires Silva, who was Minister of Infrastructure and president of Petrobras. He comments that during a dinner attended by some members of the Nobel committee (link to the video: https://youtu.be/m3u-E5XdzZ4 ) he asked why they thought Brazil had no Nobel laureates, since several Latin American countries with lower population and lower GDP even had more than one Nobel Prize. One of the committee members commented “you Brazilians are hero destroyers”. Unfortunately, this is a fact that is still present in our daily lives.

At the time I got to know high IQ communities, 1999, some famous names were William James Sidis, Marilyn vos Savant, Chris Langan, Rick Rosner, Grady Towers etc. Langan was a security guard at a nightclub, Rosner was a nudist model and also worked for a time as a security guard, Grady Towers was a security guard at a park and died a tragic and untimely death in 2000. Sidis spent the last decades of his life in underemployment and collecting license plates. Marilyn was a columnist for a magazine and got a reasonable standard of living out of it, as well as good prestige and recognition outside of high-IQ communities, as well as a lot of hateful envious. With the exception of Marilyn, the other people I mentioned earned minimum wage and still spent part of their time without a job, while many people are hired to fill positions that they are not even qualified, earning small fortunes as well as prestige and recognition.

This situation is very sad. Although Langan was not the smartest man in the Americas, as he claimed in 2000, or in world history, as he began to claim some time later, he is arguably a much smarter and more competent person than 99% of Ph. Ds. in any area and more than 99.9% of the CEOs of companies. He may not have had such a vast culture and expertise needed to solve major scientific problems, but he certainly would have given better administrative and political solutions than any president the US has ever had. I don’t know if he would be the best president, because being a great president isn’t just about solving problems. He would also need to have sensitivity, empathy, kindness, honesty and other attributes. But generally many people have these attributes at the required level. What they usually lack is precisely intelligence. I’m not saying that Langan or Rosner should be presidents. But, pondering the positives and negatives, I would bet on them as better presidents than the average of recent presidents.

Persecution and oppression can sometimes happen silently, and this is often even worse because it is harder to detect and combat. How is it possible that a person with Langan’s intellectual potential was not discovered by a large company that hired him for a millionaire salary so that he would solve internal problems in a way that generates more profit for the company than other less competent people working in the same role? There are grotesque errors in this. The vast majority of companies are contaminated by mobs of incompetents and cheats, who instead of hiring and promoting based on merit, do almost exactly the opposite, because they feel threatened by those who are more competent than themselves. This is a complete disaster not only for the companies they work for, but for the entire harmony of civilization. In Norway, Sweden, Holland, Finland, Switzerland, Denmark, etc. these problems are very rare, but in brazil this is a constant that sinks the country. In the USA, the problem may not be as serious as it is in Brazil, but when we look at the cases of Langan and Rosner, it is clear that there are serious flaws in the performance of the headhunters, failing to hire some of the most qualified people in the country, who started to most of their lives in sub-professional activities. I have cited the examples of Langan and Rosner, but the same is true of a large number of people with far above average IQs, who are working in incompatible activities, with incomes far below what they deserve, producing less than they should, while people very less capable are in high positions, making absurd mistakes and sinking companies or even sinking entire nations. My girlfriend is an environmental engineer and exceptionally smart, she worked at a large company where she solved problems that saved tens of thousands of dollars monthly by cutting waste, as well as contributing to reducing pollution. One of the solutions involving the replacement of a pipeline generated savings of a few million. If she were placed in a higher position, where her performance had greater reach, it could save the company tens or hundreds of millions. However, she was invited to participate in a corruption scheme, she refused, the person who made the invitation was afraid that she would denounce them and fired her.

In “The Republic”, Plato commented on the importance of kings being philosophers and philosophers being kings. This seems to me the most natural, substituting “philosophers” for “competent” which is usually almost synonymous with “intelligent”. And replacing “kings” with an equivalent modern meaning, which can be CEOs of big companies, mayors, governors and presidents. In the US there are several mechanisms to discover and mentor talented children and young people, there are several specialized programs. According to Eunice Maria Lima Soriano de Alencar, in the 1970s there were over 1200 educational programs for gifted children in the US. How is it possible that these programs “missed” Langan and Rosner? How could a respected entity like Hollingworth Institute not discover them? It’s not possible that they didn’t excel at school. In Brazil I would think this is normal, Brazil lets almost all the great talents go down the drain. But in the US I find it surprising that this has happened. There are records that Langan scored perfect on the SAT and received scholarships at two universities, but it appears that he lost his scholarship because he was late one day because his car broke down. This is pretty ridiculous. Even if he missed every class, he would probably learn more and better than 99% of his classmates who were present in every class. The universities did not award scholarships in recognition of his genius, but as a “handout”, with restrictive conditions to withdraw the handout if he did not meet certain criteria.

This waste of great talent is one of the main reasons that leads a country to ruin. China is catching up and surpassing the US in large part because China has invested more seriously and more heavily in special education for gifted children, while the US is making gross mistakes like this, letting great minds like Langan, Rosner, Towers are wasted on jobs like nightclub or park security, while less-skilled people lead big companies, govern cities and states.

Nepotism is not an exclusively family phenomenon. It is much broader, leading to the placement of underqualified people in positions that should be filled by others with more merit. There is no optimization in the delegation of positions, responsibilities, tasks, incentives, awards, etc. And this lack of optimization is obviously penalized. Competitors who optimize this best take the lead.

In Brazil the situation is much more serious, because there are no such programs. There were a few isolated initiatives, which reached a few dozen children, but they did not last long.

Intelligence tests are extremely important to be used in these talent discovery processes. Although the tests have several flaws, it is better that they are applied as far as possible, with errors and patches, than if they were not applied and this calamity was perpetuated. Some of the tech giants create their own tests to select their collaborators, usually these tests are not as good as the hrIQts, but at least they demonstrate that they understand the need for it. Although they are patching up the problem badly, at least they are trying to do something to identify young talents and engage them in relevant projects, in which they can contribute to the development of Science, Technology and the common good, so these companies do better than the government in this regard.

Jacobsen: Who seems like the greatest geniuses in history to you?

Melão Jr.: Leonardo, Newton, Aristotle, Gauss, Ramanujan, Archimedes, Euler and Einstein.

It is difficult to judge the cases of Hawking, Galois, Faraday, Al-Hazen and others, because Hawking had to face extreme hardships, it is difficult to know what the magnitude of his legacy would have been had he not fallen ill . It is possible that Hawking is one of the 5 or 10 smartest people in history, although his effective work is not one of the 100 most expressive, as it is not a fair representation of his potential, as he unfortunately did not have the opportunity to “compete” in equal conditions with other great geniuses. Galois was born in a very privileged situation culturally, intellectually and economically, but unfortunately he died very young. This does not mean that he would have produced much more if he had lived to be 90 or 100, because looking at the lives of other great mathematicians and scientists, most of the most important work they did was before the age of 25, eventually between 25 and 30. In addition, there are many cases of people who produced almost everything they could before the age of 20, then showed no advance or accumulation of production (Paul Morphy, for example, or Arthur Rubin). So Galois’ remarkable precocity does not necessarily indicate that he would have produced more than Gauss or Euler had he lived much longer. But even if he had not reached Euler’s level, it is likely that he would have left a monumental legacy. Faraday – like Edison, Leonardo and me – did not receive a formal education, which could be interpreted as a disadvantage, although perhaps it is not. Academic life can get in the way, in many cases, it is difficult to judge with certainty. To find out whether people with IQs above a certain level would have an advantage or a disadvantage studying as self-taught, it would be necessary to carry out experiments with several pairs of twins with an IQ in the desired range, in which one of each pair of twins would be forced to pursue a career in academia and education. another forced not to follow. There would be several problems in running such an experiment, because twins are rare and twins with IQs above a certain level may simply not be an example case, and the study would require a sample of at least a few dozen. Another problem is the ethical issue, of forcing a person to attend the unit and forcing another not to attend. This is especially serious in the case of monozygotic twins, because both would likely have similar preferences, and one of them would have to be “sacrificed” in this situation, forced to do something different than they would like.

At the time I got to know the high-IQ communities, there was a lot of talk about Sidis as the greatest genius in history, a genius wronged and misunderstood. There’s some truth to that, but there’s also a lot of exaggeration and distortion. Sidis is an unusual case and very difficult to judge, because his story is mixed with legends and fantasies. My first contact with Sidis’ “story” was through an article by Grady Towers in 1999, which he later modified in 2000. I now know that there was a lot of incorrect information in that text, but at the time I believed what was there, and I even considered the possibility that Sidis really was the smartest person in history. I now see Sidis as a victim of his parents, a forced prodigy with maybe 180 to 200 IQ, who could have been a good researcher and led a pleasant, productive life, but has been turned into a circus attraction. The 250-300 IQ that for years has been attributed to him appears to have been his sister’s invention, the 54 languages he was claimed to speak have been reduced to 52, then 40, then 26, and currently it appears he is considered to have perhaps spoken of fact 15 to 20 languages. The legend about him being able to learn 1 language in 1 day seems to be simply false. He didn’t get a Ph.D. Cum Laude at Harvard at 16, but rather a B.Sc., which is still an impressive accomplishment, but not quite. About 12% of Yale students graduate Cum Laude, Magna Cum Laude or Summa Cum Laude. In some years (like 1988) these percentages can increase quite a lot, reaching more than 30%. I don’t know the percentages at Harvard, but I suppose it’s not that different. So it is indeed expressive, but not as impressive as would be expected by someone with a supposed 250-300 IQ.

His sister’s tendency to exaggerate just about everything ends up increasing skepticism about which claims about him are true. The fact is that he did not leave a scientific or mathematical legacy that justifies the overestimation that is usually made of him. His ideas about black holes were preceded by more than 100 years by Laplace and Michell, his ideas about Evolution had already been better developed by Darwin and Wallace, in fact, Sidis’ approach is much more superficial than Darwin and Wallace’s. , being more similar to that of Anaximander and Aristotle. However, the question remains about the level of intellectual production that he could have reached if he had not withdrawn from academic life, or even withdrawn from academic life, but producing Science and Mathematics outside the university.

In terms of precocity, Gauss, Galois, Neumann and Pascal seem to me more remarkable than Sidis, not least because Gauss was a natural prodigy, while Sidis was a mixture of natural prodigy and forced prodigy. Galois, Pascal, Neumann were also natural and forced prodigies, but not as forced as Sidis. This pressure to which Sidis was subjected may have harmed him and provoked the outcome that this telenovela ended up having. I find it difficult to assess.

So if I had been asked this question in 2000, maybe I would have done a less critical and more superficial analysis and singled out Sidis as the greatest genius. Currently I would have doubts even if he would have a very high score in the hrIQts, maybe he would reach 190 in some tests, but in others he would not exceed 180. As far as intellectual production is concerned, the records do not show anything so extraordinary.

Jacobsen: What differentiates a genius from a deeply intelligent person?

Melão Jr.: The concept of “genius” is usually used to indicate exceptional ability in different scientific, artistic, sports, cultural areas, etc. In this context, one of the main differences would be the level of specificity, as the genius could indicate a remarkable talent in any area of activity (Music, Football, Ballet, etc.), including activities in which high-level intelligence is not required. In contrast to this, the profoundly intelligent person would have his talent exclusively linked to activities in which notability requires a very high intellectual level (physics, mathematics, literature, chess, etc.).

But this concept is inappropriate, in my opinion, because with the development of machines that outperform the best humans in different modalities, it becomes important not to mix “smart” machines with other machines. It might seem acceptable to say that Usain Bolt is a track and field genius, but it would be strange to say that a Bugatti Chiron is a genius, even though what the Chiron does exceptionally is the same as Usain Bolt does. It is therefore necessary to determine objective classification criteria that are equally applicable to all organic and inorganic entities, without discrimination, a criterion that works well and does not produce bizarre classifications. It would be unreasonable to say “ah, Chiron is a car, so criteria don’t apply to it”. That would be shallow and incorrect discrimination, because in a few decades there will be cars capable of talking about philosophy and demonstrating mathematical theorems, including hybrids that are part human and part cars, and if one of the criteria for being considered genius is “it can’t be a car”, there would be a serious inconsistency. A serious and fair criterion needs to be well planned, it cannot be a naive guess that does not contemplate possible exceptions.

Talents for intellectual modalities, when they reach a certain level of excellence (something like 5 standard deviations above average) can be considered “geniuses”, but for activities in which the intellectual level does not play an important role (Boxing, Football, Athletics etc. ), I believe that the correct term should be chosen more carefully, to avoid that non-intellectual machines are incorrectly classified as “geniuses” (a fast car being classified as a “genius” because it is fast seems to me to be an etymological error, but if this car is could perform intellectual tasks, the situation would change). In some circumstances, machines need to be recognized as geniuses, otherwise there will be serious inconsistencies in the syntax of the language, based solely on prejudice against machines. AlphaZero or MuZero, for example, in my opinion they (especially MuZero) are in a “grey zone” that is difficult to assess. MuZero can learn by himself to play Chess, Go, Shogui, Atari games, and reach very high level, superior to the best humans in the world in some of these games, which are recognized as intellectual games. So an attempt to adjust the criteria post facto, with the sole purpose of disqualifying MuZero as a genius, would seem to me to be a sign of unfair discrimination. Even because, the next generations of MuZero tend to present better and better what we understand as “general intelligence”, and at some point there will be no way to avoid recognizing that some machines also need to be classified as “intelligent”.

The question is whether MuZero would be better classified as “idiot savant” or “genius”. In my opinion, “genius” would be better, because idiot savants are usually not very creative and don’t excel in activities that require deep, sophisticated problem solving. They are very good at memorizing and repeating, whether mental calculations or playing songs, but I don’t know of any idiot savant who has excelled as a chess player or as a scientist. Perhaps it would be possible to reformulate the meanings of genius and idiot savant so that MuZero would be better classified as a savant, without compromising the essence of these meanings. A proper classification could not “push” Bobby Fischer or Kasparov into the savants group, for example. The classification would need to be careful, so as not to create inconsistencies with the sole objective of removing MuZero from the group of geniuses, nor presenting other types of arbitrariness.

In some other pursuits where there is no need for exceptional intellect, with an IQ of close to 120 being sufficient together with exceptional talent in a particular area, I believe the term “genius” should not be applicable. Mike Tyson or Usain Bolt don’t need much more than 120 IQ, and some vehicles without any trace of intelligence, who don’t think, can beat Bolt in the sport he excelled in, so excellence in that sport perhaps shouldn’t be seen as ” genius”.

In some cases it is more difficult to assess whether or not the term “genius” is applicable. Artificial Intelligence Systems like AIWA, which specializes in composing music, and does it at a very high level, in my view, shouldn’t be classified as “genius” either, in which case great human composers shouldn’t be classified as ” geniuses” based solely on their talent for songwriting. If this talent for songwriting was accompanied by an intellectual level commensurate with the intellectual criterion of genius, then the classification as “genius” would apply on that basis. The same would be true for boxers, farmers or professionals in any field, who would not be classified as “geniuses” based on their talents for their most prominent activities, but on their intelligence.

In this sense, there could be latent geniuses and effective geniuses. The latent genius would be in the intellectual potential to produce relevant contributions to expand the horizons of knowledge, revolutionize scientific paradigms, etc. While the effective genius would be the one who concretely does these things. A profoundly intelligent person, who has not made outstanding contributions, could be a latent genius, having the constant opportunity to become an effective genius, from the moment he uses his potential for scientific development, or for innovations in mathematics or science. in some important field of knowledge.

Some people consider the fundamental difference between a genius and a profoundly intelligent person to be creativity, but creativity is one of the components of intelligence. People often confuse logical reasoning (which is also one of the components of intelligence) with intelligence itself. But intelligent behavior is a broad combination of many cognitive processes, including memory and creativity.

The difference between “genius” and “deeply intelligent” is more quantitative and is associated with the proportions in which certain attributes are present. Creativity appears in the genius as a fundamental element, but not because the genius is creative and the profoundly intelligent person is not (both are), or even because the genius is always more creative (although he usually is). In the set of attributes, considering logical reasoning, creativity, working memory, long-term memory, etc., the genius has and uses this set of latent traits in solving novel problems with greater efficiency. As creativity is usually one of the most important requirements for this, it ends up being natural to associate genius with creativity.

Jacobsen: Is deep intelligence necessary for genius?

Melão Jr.: For the concept of genius I described, yes. In the previous answer I ended up answering this one.

Jacobsen: What were some work experiences and jobs you’ve had?

Melão Jr.: Since 2006 I have been working on the development of artificial intelligence systems to operate in the Financial Market. I am currently interested in solving the problem of prolonging life indefinitely, preserving memory and identity in inorganic devices that have a proper communication interface with the brain, resuscitating people, restoring severely damaged bodies, and other minor problems that are subsets of these and pre -requirements for these.

Jacobsen: Why pursue this particular work path?

Melão Jr.: The development of automatic systems to operate in the Financial Market is an intellectually challenging activity and offers a reasonably fair monetary reward, although the absence of a business network imposes many obstacles. The level of difficulty, complexity and depth of the problems that need to be solved to make consistent long-term profits from long-short trading is extremely high. There are some easy ways to earn 3% a year or a little more by practicing Index Buy & Hold or Blue Chips, where the gain is small but very easy. But if one wants to strive to earn profits close to 30% a year or above, the challenge is extraordinarily difficult and few people in the world actually manage to do so. As part of that work, I’ve made some interesting advances in Econometrics and Risk Management. In 2007, I solved a problem that had been unsatisfactorily resolved for 22 years by creating an index to measure risk-adjusted performance that was more accurate, more predictive, and conceptually better informed than traditional William Sharpe Nobel 1990) and Franco Modigliani (Nobel 1985). In 2015 I showed that the method recommended by the Nobel Prize in Economics Harry Markowitz, for portfolio optimization, has some flaws, and I proposed some improvements that make this method more efficient and safe. In 2021, I pointed out flaws in the recommendation of the 2003 Nobel Prize in Economics, Clive Granger, regarding the use of the concept of cointegration, and presented a more adequate solution for the same problem. Among other contributions in processes of optimization of genetic algorithms, ranking and selection of genotypes, pattern recognition, etc.

Jacobsen: What are some of the most important aspects of the gifted and genius idea? These myths that permeate the cultures of the world. What are these myths? What truths dispel them?

Melão Jr.: There seem to be different myths among different intellectual strata. For the majority of the population, with an IQ below 130, it seems that they think of the genius as a crazy, reclusive, antisocial, physically fragile person, and every physical and psychological flaw they can imagine, as a morbid need to push down. the person for not tolerating the fact that he excels at something and has little advantage in almost everything. Many movies, books and magazines try to reinforce this stereotype. But there are other incorrect ideas that are pervasive in other IQ bands. At the 130 to 180 level, for example, there seems to be an overestimation of results on IQ tests, without a correct understanding of the limits of the extent to which these tests produce accurate and reliable scores.

Another myth is related to the rarity level. People who have no concept of Psychometrics (almost all outside of high IQ societies) think that gifted people are very rare, something like 1 in a million or even rarer. They are also generally unaware of the difference between “gifted” and “genius”, including some who think gifted is smarter than genius.

Jacobsen: Any thoughts on the concept of God or the idea of gods and philosophy, theology and religion?

Melão Jr.: My family was Catholic. I became an atheist at age 11 after studying some religions. In a transition process that lasted a few years between the ages of 17 and 25, I ended up becoming agnostic. I became interested in the Bahá’í Faith at the age of 27 and at 28 I became a deist and wrote an article in which I present serious scientific arguments for the existence of God. I say “serious arguments” because all the pseudoscientific arguments I know of on the subject are desperate attempts to “prove” an a priori belief. It is different from an impartial analysis that leads to a conclusion that had not served as an initial motivation. I’m still a deist, I even founded my own religion, and I’m writing a book on the subject.

Jacobsen: How much does science influence your worldview?

Melão Jr.: Science is the only way we know of through which adequate models can be developed to represent sentient reality, functional models, capable of making generalizations and predictions, in which the results obtained are reasonably in accordance with the predictions, without predictions depend on luck for chance hits. Science is essential in the process of acquiring knowledge and technological development. On the other hand, it is important to understand the limitations of Science, as a body of disciplines that offers us a valuable method, but that is not immune to failures. The great differential of Science is not in the knowledge it produces, but in the method that allows it to correct itself and to do this constantly, updating itself, refining itself, expanding itself, etc., so that all the Scientific knowledge, even if it is fundamentally incorrect, has some practical use and works reasonably well within the limits set by Measurement Theory. Ptolemy’s cosmological model, for example, even though it was fundamentally wrong, allowed for very accurate predictions. Sometimes scientific theories may not structurally accurately represent natural phenomena, but even if the theoretical explanations are not the most correct, they work. Knowledge obtained through other means, such as philosophy, religion or popular culture, is generally less likely to “work”, and even when they do work, it is difficult to regulate the parameters that determine their functioning, due to the absence of an underlying theory that be organized by a mathematical model.

Jacobsen: What were some of the tests performed and scores obtained (with standard deviations) for you?

Melão Jr.: There is no simple answer to this question. In fact, among all the questions in this interview, this is perhaps the most difficult, because in addition to giving a correct answer, I need to try to be diplomatic so I don’t seem too arrogant. My girlfriend has asked me dozens of times what my IQ is, Tor has asked me this at least 5 times, and I usually shy away from the subject because it takes time to explain everything. But I’ll answer it here and when other people ask me again, I’ll provide the link to that answer, including because in previous questions and in the introductory text I commented a little about clinical trials, hrIQts, estimates and comparisons. With that, I believe it will be possible to express my opinion on this topic in a reasonably complete and accurate way in less than 50 pages, taking advantage of the previous answers as prerequisites.

I was examined for the first time at 3 years of age, and I even got to the tests for 9 years, because they were not above 9 years old for children who could not read. I don’t know what the tests are called, but the standard deviation was probably 24. There are several complex points that need to be examined about this, because the evolution of intelligence as a function of age is not linear, as in Stern’s simplified formula, the deviation default is not 24 in all age groups under 16, most very young children examined are forced prodigies that parents tried to teach a lot since they were born but it was not like that in my case, my father went out to work before When I woke up and came back after I was asleep, my mom worked most of the day, so none of them even had time to spend much time with me, let alone train me like a forced prodigy. Other points to consider are that intellectual development does not end at age 16 (nor 17 or 18 or 19), nor does it reach the limit at a fixed age for all people, nor does it remain stable when reaching a certain age. Therefore the interpretation that the mental age of 9 years to 3 years corresponds to an IQ ratio of 300 is grossly incorrect and naive. Even after converting the scale with standard deviation from 24 to 16, reaching 233, it is still incorrect. The evolution curve of intelligence as a function of age also varies from one person to another. Therefore, it is not reasonable to use tests applied in childhood as a basis to try to estimate what the adult IQ will be. There are several cases of IQs measured in childhood that prove to be very far from correct in adulthood, although some may “get it right”, as in the case of Terrence Tao, who had an IQ measured at 230 and, luckily, really had an IQ. his is close to it. In my case, it is also possible that the measured IQ came close to the correct value “luckily”, but the tests used, the method used, etc. are not appropriate.

Another detail is that I don’t know if I would continue to solve typical tasks for children over 10 years old, but it is possible that I would, but the precocity in solving typical tasks for older children says almost nothing, or says very little, about the intellectual level that will be reached in adulthood, because the skills measured do not provide useful information for this type of prognosis. The type of skill that would indicate a very high intellectual level (200+) in adulthood is not related to the same type of task that an 8, 9 or 10 year old, or even 20 year old child could perform, but with the problem solving that indicated traits of creativity and deep thinking for that age. The event in Geography class at age 9, for example, was a much more relevant indicator than the test result at age 3, not only because at age 9 he had already reached greater maturity and was closer to the potential he would have as an adult. , but also, and mainly, because the type of problem involved was more closely related to the cognitive processes needed by genius adults.

As I mentioned in the introductory text, in other answers, in some articles and in some forums, IQ tests and hrIQts have problems in construct validity, errors in the calculation of the norm, and inadequacy of the level of difficulty. I already had a very bad experience with Paul Cooijmans in 2001 and I don’t plan on wasting time on it again. Cooijmans’ Space, Time & Hyperspace (STH) proposed measuring IQ up to 207 (σ=16), although the real difficulty of the hardest questions on this test is not much higher than 170. But that’s not the main problem. STH contains several primary errors that completely invalidate the test and the norm, although many people consider it to be one of the “best” hrIQts. In 2001 I wrote to Cooijmans about this and pointed out one such mistake to him, but he refused to talk about it and did not admit his mistake. I don’t have the patience to deal with people who act like him. I’ll describe exactly what the problem is using an example:

The general wording for all STH questions was as follows:

a : b :: c : d

Meaning: “a” is to “b” as “c” is to “d”.

Given “a, b, c” determine “d”.

The statement, along with the test, can be accessed at https://web.archive.org/web/20040812113534/http://www.gliasociety.org/

Here’s a print of what’s in the link above:

Question 10 is:

The general statement says that there is a relationship from the 1st figure to the 2nd figure that must be discovered and then that same relationship must be applied to the 3rd figure to produce the 4th figure. This is the only general statement for all questions in this test, presented at the beginning of the test, and it works like this in questions 1 through 9, but not so in question 10 or 16 other questions out of the 28 that make up this test.

He wanted question 10 to discover the relationship of the 1st figure to the 3rd figure and then that same relationship to be applied to the 2nd figure to produce the 4th figure! But at no time did he ask for this in the statement. What the statement asks for is exactly what I described above. If the person answers exactly what the utterance is asking for, the person loses 1 point!

There are several other issues in STH with this same basic logic error. In this surreal situation, if the person hits all 28 questions exactly in accordance with what the test statement asks for, the person will receive only 11 correct answers and score 135 instead of 205 by the current norm, or 140 instead of 207 by the norm. old.

As Cooijmans did not agree to talk about it, I talked (at the time) with 3 other people able to give an opinion: Petri Widsten, Albert Frank and Guilherme Marques dos Santos Silva.

Petri Widsten scored highest on the Sigma Test, STH and was champion in several logic and IQ contests, including http://www.worldiqchallenge.com/rankings.html , where Petri scored nearly twice the raw score of Rick Rosner. Petri quickly agreed with me on this, even to the detriment of his own answers, because he had answered what he thought Cooijmans would like to receive as an answer, not what would be the most correct answer. Every time I think about this subject, I get stressed, because Cooijmans is a very stubborn person. I don’t think Cooijmans is stupid or dishonest; I think he’s smart and he tries to do what he believes is right, but his stubbornness is greater than his intelligence.

Albert Frank was a professor of logic and mathematics at the University of Brussels, a veteran champion of chess in Belgium. Albert also agreed with me and made some comments on Formal Logic that categorize the type of mistake made by Cooijmans.

Guilherme Marques dos Santos Silva is a member of Sigma V and was champion in the IQ contest “Ludomind International Contest IV”, he also agreed with me and “gave up” to finish doing the STH after he saw this absurd error. He said there were few questions left to finish, but due to the serious bias in the correction, he had no interest in proceeding.

In addition to the people I talked to back then, I also recently talked to Tianxi Yu about this kind of issue. Yu scores 196, σ=15 on Death Numbers, which is considered a serious test with a deflated norm. He commented that he has already found bugs in several tests, and he has posted an extensive and detailed public critique of this in a group, citing the various types of bugs that bother him. There are several points where I disagree with Yu’s opinions, but in terms of testing, our opinions are very similar.

As soon as I had my first contact with high IQ societies and discovered Miyaguchi’s website (1999), I became interested in taking the Power Test, which I consider one of the best in terms of construct validity and with an adequate level of difficulty. At the time I was 27 years old and with a different opinion than I do now, I had three goals with the Power Test: one was fun, another was to beat Rick Rosner’s IQ~193 record, and the third was to get into Mega Society. At that time, the standard calculated by Garth Zietsman for the Power Test was used, with a ceiling of 197, but before I finished solving all the questions, the Power Test was no longer accepted in Mega Society and the ceiling was “revised” to 180. So I completely lost interest.

Garth Zietsman is a competent statistician and the norm he calculated , probably using Item Response Theory, is consistent and very well grounded. If the same items used in Mega, Titan, and Ultra were in Power, then the individual difficulties of those items were maintained and determined the norm for Power. So when the Power Test ceiling was changed to 180, it was a mistake. The more than 4,000 applications of Meta, Titan and Ultra, which served as the basis for the norm calculated by Zietsman, were simply disregarded, and a new norm was calculated based on a few dozen people. The correct procedure would be to add the new data (about the results of each item answered by the people examined with the Power) to the item bank that contained the Mega, Titan and Ultra questions, recalibrate the parameters of difficulty, discriminating power and casual accuracy (if applicable) of each item, then review the norms of the 4 Hoeflin tests that shared those items. Thus, the difficulty levels would be preserved equally in all tests, maintaining a unified scale.

But the way it was done, the Power norm was skewed downwards relative to the other three Hoeflin tests. To better clarify the problem, I will cite an example: in the Power Test the question about the Moebius tape is being treated statistically as if it had parameter b = +2.81, that is, 50% of people with IQ 145 (σ=16) should get this issue right. However, the same question about the Moebius tape, when applied in another of the Hoeflin tests, is being treated statistically as if it had a parameter b = 3.88, that is, 50% of people with IQ 162 (σ=16) must get this right. question. This is a serious inconsistency, because either the question has a difficulty of 2.81 on all tests in which it is used, or 3.88 on all tests. The question cannot have difficulty 3.88 on some tests and 2.81 on others. Zietsman’s norming is consistent in this regard, so the Power roof produces a norm on the same scale as the Mega, Titan, and Ultra norms.

One of the reasons that caused this reduction in the Power ceiling is because some people had already taken one or more of the other Hoeflin tests in which the Power items were present, so the probability of hitting those items on the second try was higher, increasing even more on the third and fourth attempts. But the correct way to deal with this would be to adjust all the norms of all the tests that contained those items, depending on the number of times those items had already been solved by the person examined, with norms customized for each person, or based on how many and which of the three other tests the person had already solved (an equation for this could easily be determined using cluster analysis, for example).

It could also simply look at the scores of people who had taken more than one test (or the same test more than once) and the effect that had on the probability of getting each repeated item right on the second, third, or fourth test that contained the same item. While this global adjustment to the itemset was not as accurate and refined as analyzing this effect on each individual item, as I suggested above, this would already help to improve the norms across all 4 tests, rather than distorting the Power norm in relative to everyone else.

Anyway, there is a worrying amount of errors in the hrIQts, both in the calculations of the norms and in the answers accepted as correct, among other problems. That’s why Sigma Test has always adopted a policy of transparency, being open to debates, if the person had a score above 180 in any test and they believed that some of their answers were right and they thought they received an incorrect evaluation, they could contest the correction of a question she chose. If she was right, she could challenge the correction of one more question, and so on, until her challenge was unfounded. The Moon Test and Sigma Test Extended have a similar transparency policy, but the minimum score on other tests to have this right to challenge is 190 on both the Moon Test and Sigma Test Extended. This allows reviewing any errors, as well as allowing the person being examined the opportunity to defend what they believe is right, in the event that they feel they deserved more points than they received. In my opinion, all tests should adopt a similar policy.

If there were any tests with appropriate characteristics, I would consider doing another test, even though I am older and dumber. Basically it should be a test with good construct validity at the highest levels, appropriate ceiling, and appropriate difficulty. In addition, it should have a formal “grievance” system that allows contesting the result. Without that, I see no reason to waste time on these things. An hrIQt can easily take up to 50 hours and if it’s a really hard test, with the right level of difficulty, it can take over 500 hours. It is time that could be spent on more interesting and productive activities. So unless the test brings together a number of notable virtues that justify the effort, I wouldn’t be interested. In fact, there is a test that, in my opinion, meets these requirements, but I cannot solve it because I am the author. This reminds me of a topic that was discussed a few weeks ago in a group:

In fact, some problems I’ve already solved are more difficult than the more difficult problems in Sigma Test Extended. So there are some useful clues in that.

Some people have already estimated my IQ and made some comparisons. In 2004, Pars Society founder (IQ>180), Baran Yonter, estimated my IQ to be over 200 (σ=16, G), this is equivalent to over 240 pIQ (σ=16, T). I thought he was being nice, but in 2005, when I was nominated for the production of the Globo TV show “Fantástico” as the smartest person in Brazil, I discovered that other people had similar opinions to Baran about me. I was flattered by the nominations, but I don’t know if I’m really the smartest person in Brazil and I told the journalist that, but he insisted, and as I had been the most nominated, and also for the sake of vanity, I ended up accepting to do the article, whose video is available on my page and my channel.

It is necessary to make an important caveat regarding the correct determination of the most intelligent person in Brazil, because there is a Brazilian who won a Fields medal (Artur Ávila) and there is a Brazilian who made fundamental contributions to the development of paraconsistent logics (Newton da Costa), both are very smart people, but with different profiles than mine, so it would be difficult to make a proper comparison to know for sure who is the smartest in Brazil, because each of them is deeply specialized in a very specific area, while my talents and achievements span a wide variety of different areas. As a result of greater specialization, the level of depth they have reached is greater, but this greater depth does not reflect greater depth of reasoning, but greater depth of knowledge. Also, I only studied until the 11th grade, while they did PhDs and postdocs with excellent advisors, which puts me in a “running with legs tied” situation compared to people who run on horseback. The people who worked on the same problems I worked on were equipped with more sophisticated mathematical tools, access to much more powerful computers, access to a vast, high-quality bibliography, received much more prolonged, intensive formal training under the guidance of experienced scientists, while all my “training” was self-administered, with virtually no bibliographic resources and modest computational resources. I often had to create my own statistical tools before using them to solve problems, and later I found that there were ready-made tools for the same purposes. During the development of my system to operate in the Financial Market, situations like this were repeated many times.

A detail that is important to clarify: I commented (in the appendix) that the average quality of education in Brazil is terrible, so what would be my disadvantage for not having attended this terrible environment? And the answer is simple: many of the best Brazilian academics will study at the best research centers and universities in Europe, the USA, Canada, Australia, Japan, etc. Also, there are a few really good researchers in Brazil, and when a young talent receives guidance from a first-rate researcher, it makes a huge difference. So there is a substantial advantage in Artur and Newton da Costa’s opportunities compared to my situation, because they had access to many more resources, in addition to the advantages in mentoring and training.

As for other people who have worked on the same problems as me, and I solved those problems before them or better than them or both, almost all of them are from other countries: Nick Trefethen is Head of Dep. in Numerical Calculus at Oxford University and collects some international Mathematics prizes (Leslie Fox Prize 1985, FRS Prize 2005, IMA Gold Medal 2010), Susumu Tachi is Professor Emeritus at the University of Tokyo and Guest Professor at MIT, Stefan Steinerberger is Professor of Mathematics at Yale, William Sharpe is a professor at the University of California and a Nobel Prize in Economics in 1990, Franco Modigliani is a Professor at the University of Rome and a Nobel Prize in Economics in 1985, Clive Granger was a professor at the University of Nottingham and a Nobel Prize in Economics in 2003, among others. So the people who worked on some of the problems that I solved constitute a “heavy competition”, in addition to having access to more resources, more advisors, etc. relevant before them, perhaps represents some merit to me, I have no false modesty in admitting it.

The fact is that the correct determination of the smartest person in a country is not something so simple, it is not a game of egos and vanities. There needs to be a real basis for this. For example, I think Petri Widsten has excellent chances of being the smartest person in Finland, not only because of his excellent result in the Sigma Test, but also because his doctoral thesis, besides being very innovative, was awarded as the best thesis. of the country in the 2002-2003 biennium and he won several logic contests. The aggregate of these results, and other minor details such as him being fluent in more than 10 languages, suggest a real intellectual level with rarity above 1 in 5 million, which is the population of Finland. However, there are other very smart people in Finland, like Rauno Lindström or Bengt Holmström. Although Finland is a culturally more homogeneous country, so that there is not as great a difference in opportunities as in my case, even so, the comparison is still difficult, so it would not be wise to categorically state that a certain person (Petri or Rauno or another) is the smartest in Finland. The most appropriate would be to assign a probability to each one. Petri would have around a 95% probability of being the smartest person in Finland, Maybe Rauno 2%, Bengt 1% and someone among other people 5 million people 2%. In the case of Brazil, my advantage would be much smaller than Petri’s in relation to the other strong candidates.

In 2005, friend Alexandre Prata Maluf, a member of Sigma V, Pars Society and OlympIQ Society, estimated that my IQ should be similar or slightly above that of Marilyn Vos Savant. I think he meant it as a compliment, because Marilyn is an icon in high-IQ societies, but I didn’t like the comparison, because it’s not a fair comparison. The real-world problems I’ve solved are much more difficult than the problems she’s solved. I don’t exclude the possibility that she might have an IQ similar to mine, but she would need to prove it with concrete results, solving problems with a compatible degree of difficulty.

I recently learned that in 2018, in a private group, my name had been mentioned in a post titled “Name the top 5 people (alive) with the highest measured IQs in the world today! Name, IQ and Test.” I found it surprising that I was quoted, because since 2006 I had been away from high IQ societies and only returned a few months ago, in February 2022, yet Rasmus Waldna from Sweden very kindly remembered me and suggested my name, and his nomination received more likes than the names of Terence Tao, Chris Hirata, Rick Rosner, Marilyn and Langan. The names of friends Tor and Iakovos were also indicated. I understand that it was an informal topic, and people’s positive reactions may have been influenced by factors extrinsic to intellectual capacity, some people may have liked it out of sympathy, for example, or because they like my hair, but I was still happy with the memory and recognition, and also happy to see some friends on this list.

In 2001, David Spencer compared me to Leonardo Da Vinci and Pascal. In 2016 my friend Joao Antonio LJ compared me to Newton and Galileo, and the way he wrote and the context in which it was said, I found it a touching and sincere compliment. In 2017, I was again compared to Leonardo (by Aurius). In 2020, Empiricus magazine published an article by Bruno Mérola on risk management, in which the author compared my Melao Index with the Sharpe index (1990 Nobel), and in the analysis he did, he presented facts and arguments demonstrating that my index is higher than the Sharpe index. In fact, my index is also superior to that of Modigliani (Nobel 1985), Sortino and all the others, but in the article he only mentioned the Sharpe index because it is the most used in the world, because it is more traditional and better known, and cited mine for being the most efficient. In 2021 I was compared to Feynman and again to Leonardo, in an interesting situation, where the person (Francisco) did a reasonably detailed analysis of the comparison to justify his opinion. In 2021, I was again cited as possibly the smartest person in Brazil by Luca Fujii, one of the greatest precocious talents in Brazilian Mathematics, but as he is still very young, he has not yet manifested all his intellectual brilliance and that is why he is not yet so famous, but it will be soon. Luca is a person with many moral virtues, as well as intellectual ones, just like Joao Antonio LJ, so I feel really honored that these people have high opinions about me, and also because I know they don’t say that just to please me, but based on deep criteria, very well-founded and well-considered criteria. Joao has read over 1000 of my articles, Luca has read my two books and has surely read hundreds of my articles. So, in addition to being exceptionally skilled, they were also knowledgeable about what they were talking about.

Anyway, I think the real world problems I’ve solved, the people who have tried to solve the same problems and the awards these people have won and other problems they’ve solved, the opinions of some exponents of high IQ societies about me maybe answer a little about my IQ, certainly more and better than a standardized test could tell.

Jacobsen: What ethical philosophy makes any sense, even the most viable sense to you?

Melão Jr.: I know of no author who represents my views on any subject sufficiently accurately and completely. There are always details where disagreements occur. In my book on the existence of God, one of the chapters deals with Ethics, in which I set out my views on this. There are some articles in which I discuss issues related to Ethics, this is one of them: https://www.saturnov.org/liberdadeedireitos

Jacobsen: What political philosophy makes any sense, even the most viable sense to you?

Melão Jr.: There is a Polish proverb that says “In capitalism, man betrays man. In socialism, the opposite occurs. In theory, almost all political systems try to be reasonably good, with different priorities, but each aiming, in its own way, at noble and lofty goals, although utopian and superficial in basic points, so when they are implemented in practice, it becomes clear that human vicissitudes corrupt any system, because theoretical systems do not make adequate predictions about how to deal with real humans. I believe that in the not too distant future, if we do not destroy each other by war, the political leadership of the planet will be “in the hands” of intelligent machines, and there will be a system much more logical and fair than any system that currently exists. It will be far from a perfect system, but it will be vastly superior to anything we know of, as these systems will be able to analyze much more complex and profound interactions of human relationships between large groups and how those relationships evolve over the long term in much the same way. that the best chess programs far surpass the quality of analysis of humans, “seeing” much more accurately and deeper and making more accurate predictions than any human. The problem is that there is a high risk that we will be enslaved by machines, or something, or there will be a symbiotic union between humans and machines, or parasitic, it is difficult to predict, it will depend on some decisions we make in the coming years and decades.

Jacobsen: What metaphysics makes any sense to you, even the most viable sense to you?

Melão Jr.: The theory of the multiverse is on the threshold between Physics and Metaphysics. The word “multiverse” is an inadequate construction, but the meaning is plausible and even probable.

Jacobsen: What comprehensive philosophical system of worldview makes any sense, even the most viable sense to you?

Melão Jr.: What I describe in the book I cited above, in which I present arguments that seem conclusive about the existence of God, and I address other philosophical and scientific topics.

Jacobsen: What gives you meaning in life?

Melão Jr.: I don’t think there needs to be something that gives meaning to life beyond itself. Life has an intrinsic meaning. But I can say that protecting my mother and providing the best possible for her was something that gave me joy. She passed away in 2016. I didn’t eat properly and didn’t sleep properly for a few months. I had already researched cryogenics and knew that this technology does not offer realistic prospects of bringing a person back to life, because the membranes of trillions of cells are ruptured in heat shock, leaving the cytoplasm to leak out, a process that is unlikely to be reversed. I started to think of a way to resuscitate her, but I find it very difficult that the resurrected person could have restored the exact same personality and memories, so it wouldn’t be the same person. If her memories and personality had been stored entirely on an HDD or SSD, or some device with similar properties, then perhaps it would be possible to restore the same person, in a genuine process of resuscitation. The joy of living was gone with her death. In 2018 I met my girlfriend Tamara who has been living with me ever since and I can say she has been my joy of living, my life would be very small and discolored if it wasn’t for her. It is an honor for the human species that there are people deeply committed to doing what is right and fair, like her, who elevate human dignity to a level close to perfection.

Jacobsen: Is meaning externally derived, internally generated, both, or something else?

Melão Jr.: In deduction the meaning is attributed, ultimately, arbitrarily. One determines what a triangle is and that will be a triangle. In finite induction, meaning is inferred from the analysis of the amplitude of variation of properties observed in entities of the same class compared to the dispersion of the same properties observed in entities of different classes.

The evolution of the concept of “planet”, for example, illustrates well how this happens. The Greeks classified the Moon, Sun, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn as planets. Not all Greeks, actually. Aristarchus, Seleucus, Ecphantus (assuming that Ecphantus actually existed) and Philolaus did not adopt the same criteria. With Copernicus, the Sun was no longer considered a planet, while the Earth was classified as a planet, because the criterion of the Greeks was that the planets moved. When Uranus was discovered in 1781, it also came to be classified as a planet, because its general properties fit this class of objects better, and the same happened when Ceres was discovered in 1801. However, shortly afterward, Pallas was discovered, Vesta, Juno and other objects with orbits very similar to those of Ceres, all much smaller than the other planets and sharing almost the same orbit. Within a few years there were more than 10 objects with these characteristics , which led to reconsidering whether the criteria used to classify planets were appropriate. Then came the concept of “planetoid” later modified to “asteroid” to include this class of objects. At the time Pluto (1930) was discovered, as it was far outside the asteroid zone and its size was originally estimated to be similar to that of Earth, it was classified as a planet. In a few years it was found to be much smaller than previously thought. The first estimates from 1931 assigned Pluto 13,100 km in diameter, then 6084.8 km, then 5760 km, then 3000 km, 2700 km, 2548 km, 2300 km, 2390 km and the latest data indicate about 2376.6 km . So, at the time it was discovered, it was plausible that it was classified as a “planet”, but when it was found that it was much smaller and less massive, the situation changed. This issue is discussed in more detail in my book on the subject. When other trans-Neptunian objects were discovered, it started to be considered that perhaps Pluto would be better classified as one of those objects, rather than being considered a planet. The terrestrial planets (Mercury, Venus, Earth and Mars) had a rocky surface, average density approximately between 4 and 5.5 times that of water, diameter approximately between 5,000 and 13,000 km, while Jovian planets (Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune) they had a fluid “surface”, average density approximately between 0.7 and 1.7 times that of water, diameter approximately between 50,000 and 140,000 km. But Pluto was far outside these two groups, its density 1.9 was similar to that of the Jovians, but its size was smaller than that of the tellurics. It was not known if the surface was rocky, but in principle it was believed that it was. When Eris was discovered – whose mass is similar to Pluto and maybe a little larger – they finally decided to promote a debate about it and reconsider the criteria for classifying planets. In 2006, the IAU decided to create a new class of objects, the “dwarf planets”, and Pluto entered that category.

I skipped some important events, such as Galileo and Simons’ discovery of the 4 large satellites of Jupiter, which were initially considered “planets” because the concept of a “satellite” didn’t exist until Kepler suggested it. Galileo sometimes referred to these objects as “small stars”, as it was not really known what stars were, although Giordano Bruno already had a promising hunch.

The meaning of “planet” was and continues to be determined by comparison with other objects that show different levels of similarity. In cases where there are large numbers of objects to compare, such as the taxonomy of animals, classifications can be made at many hierarchical levels, with different levels of similarity, and meanings are assigned according to properties common to all elements. of the same class, while trying to select criteria that allow distinguishing from elements of other classes. In classifications of dogs and cats, for example, it is not useful to consider the fact that they have 2 eyes, a tail and a snout, because this does not help to distinguish one species from the other. Average size would help if the size spread were narrower, but as different dog breeds vary over a very wide range, this criterion wouldn’t help much either. In these cases, more subtle and specific criteria, such as facial morphology, tooth morphology and number of teeth, turn out to be more useful. The size of the snout can help, but the number of teeth has a similar meaning, as it is related to the size of the snout, with the advantage of being more objective and quantitative.

Anyway, these are the two main ways of determining meanings. One is arbitrary, it allows one to impose what characteristics the entity must have. The other tries to discover which characteristics are common to all entities of the same class and, at the same time, are different from the characteristics of entities of similar classes, in order to make it possible to distinguish between entities of one class or another. These meanings are often incomplete, uncertain and subject to revision as new discoveries are made about other entities whose characteristics are borderline in a given class, leading to broadening, narrowing or reconfiguring the criteria to include or exclude the new entity in one of the classes. known, or, more rarely, create a new class inaugurated by that entity.

Jacobsen: Do you believe in life after death? If yes, why and in what way? If not, why not?

Melão Jr.: The concept of “death” is a disconnection, which for now we don’t know how to reconnect, but soon it will be possible in different ways. This is one of the topics analyzed in more detail in my book. The concept of “soul” also needs to be examined in detail to answer this, and the size of the answer would be immense.

Jacobsen: What do you think of the mystery and transience of life?

Melão Jr.: I don’t think it’s transitory. It has been for now, but that should soon change.

Jacobsen: What is love to you?

Melão Jr.: It is a desperate attempt to invent a word to represent an indescribable feeling.

Appendix: Educational System in Brazil and Richard Lynn’s study on IQs in different countries

The education system is usually bad all over the world, but in Brazil it is much worse than the average of countries with similar GDPs. I estimate that Brazilian education is one of the worst in the world. University of Ulster Professor Emeritus Richard Lynn offers a simplistic explanation for this in his article “IQ and Wealth of Nations”. It does not deal with Education. It deals with Economics, but the argument he uses to justify differences in income would be equally (and better) applied to Education, as long as the argument is valid. But the argument starts from a false premise. There are many errors in Lynn’s work. The central idea he defends is right, but quantitatively he forces exaggerated results. The thesis he defends – that there are ethnic and regional differences – is correct, but the differences are not as big as he wants to make it out to be. According to Lynn, the average IQ in Equatorial Guinea is 56. If this were right, the country would be expected to be a large tribe of nomads, they would not have mastered the technique of producing fire, they would not have built plows, spears, etc. But there is an urban civilization there. In addition, people with an IQ below 60 have a hard time learning to read and write, even though they live in countries with extensive infrastructure and literacy incentives. If more than 91% of the population of Equatorial Guinea can read (assuming this information is not made up), even in an environment with less incentive to learn, it would be very difficult to explain how this population with an average IQ of 56 is predominantly literate. Lynn tries to spread his neo-Nazi beliefs and uses this scientific research to try to gain credibility for his views. The average IQ of Ashkenazi Jews is around 114, the highest average in the world, but Lynn was able to manipulate the data from her meta-analysis so that the average IQ for the state of Israel was 94.

In the case of Brazil, Lynn’s results indicated an average IQ of 87 and, in a more recent review, they indicate 83.38. If this were correct, it would be a good explanation for the low quality of Brazilian scientific production and the terrible quality of teaching. But the real problems that predominate in Brazil are a combination of student laziness, teacher laziness, low leveling in classes and bad “pedagogical” methodology.

A more serious analysis of the situation shows that the average Brazilian’s real IQ is not as low as Lynn’s studies suggest. Many people turn in IQ quizzes without answering, or they “guess” all the alternatives, or they answer some and “kick” the others.

In a post of mine on the profile of our friend Iakovos Koukas, I made a reasonably detailed comment about this, which I also reproduced in the IQ Olympiad group and reproduced here again:

There are indeed cognitive differences based on ethnicity, just as there are in relation to average height, average penis size, average concentration of melanin under the skin, etc., but the cognitive differences are much smaller than what he tries to “sell”.

On the one hand, there is the problem of naive egalism, defended by some pseudo-ideological groups, and this finds no support in the facts. At the opposite extreme, there are groups of people like Richard Lynn, Tatu Vanhanen and Charles Murray who try to exacerbate racial differences and use them to justify the misery of some peoples. Both the radical eugenicists and the radical egalitarians are wrong, but between one extreme and the other there are some truths.

Just as there are marked cognitive differences between species, there are differences between ethnicities, but less marked because the range of genetic variation within the same species is smaller. Pretending that these differences do not exist is a mistake, because the correct knowledge about the particularities of each ethnicity helps to make more accurate diagnoses of several diseases whose symptoms are not the same in all ethnic groups, the adequate time of exposure to the Sun for the synthesis of vitamin D is not the same, and many characteristics that would be interpreted as “healthy” in some ethnicities are not in others, so the correct use of this information helps to more effectively interpret the results of blood counts, analyze bone, dermatological and other anomalies. muscle. Knowing the physiological, cognitive and behavioral differences of each ethnicity is important; the problem is to use these differences for the purpose of tyrannizing, oppressing or diminishing the merits of a people, this is unethical and unscientific, and Lynn ostensibly tries to do this.

In the case of Brazil, there seems to be a distortion close to 10 to 15 points in the numbers presented by Lynn, so the correct average Brazilian IQ should be around 95, a little below average, but not so much as to justify the bad results. of Brazil in Science. The real problems seem to be laziness and other items I mentioned above. There are recent studies that question whether apparently lazy behavior should be classified exactly as “laziness” or not, but I won’t go into that discussion either so as not to make this text even longer.

In the 1950s and 1960s, Richard Feynman was in Brazil a few times and made severe criticisms of the Brazilian education system, he did some impromptu social experiments and showed that Brazilian doctoral students often did not understand the basics of what they were doing, they acted mechanically , without the slightest idea about the fundamentals. Brazilians wrote some nice words in relation to Feynman’s criticism, saying that they intended to improve something, but the current situation is perhaps even worse than it was when Feynman was in our country. In addition to the shameful situation of education in Brazil, there are still other problems in this episode, because Brazilian “educators” showed surprise and perplexity with the problems pointed out by Feynman, as if they were in a house on fire, but they were not seeing that the fire was devouring. everything, until a neighbor comes in and shows them the fire. So they thank you, look shocked, make a speech of mea culpa, but do nothing concrete about the fire, which is still devastating … It ‘s unbelievable that they weren’t seeing the fire before the neighbor pointed it out to them and unbelievable that they continue without taking any action after the problem was pointed out.

Although scientists and educators have not mobilized to try to solve the problem, some Brazilian exponents of Mathematics, who had some experiences in Europe and the United States, decided to try to reproduce a small oasis, bringing to Brazil some of what they had experienced in developed countries. In 1952, IMPA (Institute of Pure and Applied Mathematics) was founded. At that time, Brazil was in Group I of the IMU (International Mathematical Union), the lowest level. For 70 years, IMPA has been the only place in Brazil where there has been a sincere attempt to identify and support some outstanding talent, trying to escape the bureaucracy and inefficiency of the Educational System. But IMPA is only 1 institution located in Rio de Janeiro. Brazil is a large country, with 8,500,000 km^2, so people who live far from RJ are often unable to enjoy what IMPA offers. Therefore, IMPA’s reach is still small. With the popularization of the Internet, this has improved, but the number of beneficiaries is still very limited, including because there is relatively little publicity about IMPA events, most schools do not enroll their students in OBM (Brazilian Mathematics Olympiad), most of the students do not even know that OBM exists. There are some professors spread across Brazil linked to IMPA, who try to contribute to the identification of talents, but it is a difficult process, they do not receive incentives from the government or companies. Even with these obstacles, between 1952 and 2015 IMPA raised Brazil from Group 1 to Group 5 (the highest), which only 11 countries are part of: Germany, Brazil, Canada, China, USA, France, Israel, Italy , Japan, UK and Russia.

I don’t know what the criteria for being included in Group 5 of the UMC are, but I suppose it’s a combination of merit and politics, perhaps more merit than politics. I say that there is a bit of politics because there are countries with two Fields medals or two Abel awards, but they are not part of this group, such as Australia, Belgium, Iran and Sweden, while Brazil has only 1 Fields medal. Of course, these awards should not be the only criterion, but they are very reasonable indications of the cream of mathematics produced in each country. There are also several countries with 1 Fields medal and a longer mathematical tradition, which are also not in Group 5. Perhaps the criterion takes into account the pace of growth, and in this regard Brazil is perhaps, along with China and India, one of the fastest growing in the production of high-level Mathematics.

The fact is that if the average Brazilian IQ were really as low as Richard Lynn claims, and the main problem in Brazil was really the low average IQ of the population, then IMPA actions would not have been able to substantially modify the quality and quantity. of high-level mathematical production. If the problem were low IQ, the solution would come from other actions, such as nutritional improvements, for example. IMPA actions did not change the average IQ of the population; they only changed the efficiency in the identification of talents that already existed in the country, and after the identification, opportunities and incentives began to be offered to these talents.

The numbers pointed out by Lynn, that the average Brazilian IQ would be 87, are inconsistent with the results achieved by IMPA. Even with a population of 213 million, it would be difficult for some of these people to reach the world top with rarity close to 1 in 300 million if Brazil was 1 standard deviation below the average, even because IMPA cannot extend its benefits to more than 1% to 5% of the most talented population. Of course, other hypotheses would apply, such as a higher standard deviation in the IQ distribution among the Brazilian population or a more platykurtic distribution. But generally what you see in groups with a smaller mean height is a narrower rather than a wider standard deviation. This happens with virtually all variables. The standard deviation in diameter for larger screws is wider than for smaller screws. In other words, the percentage standard deviation is usually maintained, so it would be strange for a population with a lower IQ to have a higher standard deviation. Furthermore, it would be an ad hoc adjustment to try to salvage a theory that has other problems, making it more plausible to pass Occam’s razor and accept that Lynn is wrong about this. The average Brazilian’s correct IQ is substantially higher than he says, just like the IQs of most other non-Aryan peoples he tries to push down are also higher than the numbers he presents.

Examining the facts objectively, what the data suggests is that the average Brazilian IQ is probably much closer to 95 than to 87. A little below average, but not as low as Lynn suggests.

The IMPA results also show that perhaps laziness is a reflection of the poor education system. If laziness were a widespread problem in the country, the solutions implemented by IMPA would not have been enough to solve it either; other complementary measures would be necessary. Perhaps laziness is a striking problem that affects more than 99% of the population, but about 1% could not be labeled as “lazy”, but as a victim of a very bad education system. As more than 99% of intellectual production comes from that 1%, we have a huge problem there, and a complete lack of attention to this problem, because politicians are not very concerned about making great efforts to win 1% of votes, since with less effort they can get more votes by pretending to please a less demanding, easier to deceive and much more numerous audience.

One of the big problems is that the 99% of the population are also harmed, but they don’t see this themselves and don’t demand from the government measures that can contribute to long-term improvements, measures that are good and fair for all. Each just wants the government to adopt measures with immediate results that benefit their own navels. In this way, the problem tends to perpetuate itself, as it has for decades.

Many Brazilian academics often complain about the lack of funds and attribute the low scientific production to this. Others do worse, pretending that there is good quality scientific production in Brazil, despite the lack of funds. But what the concrete facts show is that really very poor countries, in which most of the population lives in poverty, such as Ethiopia, Nigeria, Congo, Kenya, Ghana, etc. had citizens Nobel laureates, while in Brazil there has never been a Nobel laureate. Furthermore, when Einstein developed his major works, for which he deserved 3 Nobel prizes (and 2 more for later works), he was not receiving any funding for his research, not even in previous years. Therefore, although the lack of resources imposes severe limitations, it cannot be considered an absolute impediment, much less be used as a pretext in a situation like this. Great works were carried out practically without money, as was much of Newton’s work during 1665.

[Here, perhaps, a small caveat fits, because as I mentioned in the part about awards and merits, it is possible that some Brazilians have performed works with merit to receive a Nobel, but were not laureates for political, bureaucratic reasons, etc. My work on Econometrics and Risk Management, for example, is more expressive than most of the work of Nobel laureates in Economics in recent decades. The discovery of the π meson, although predominantly an operational work, had a Brazilian as the protagonist (César Lattes), but as the team leader was Celil Powell, Lattes only had a B.Sc. and at the time (1950) the award was only given to the head of the team, Lattes ended up not receiving the award, although he was perhaps primarily responsible for this work and was the main author of the article. After the detection of π mesons in cosmic rays (1947), Lattes was one of the few in the world with the necessary knowledge to identify the signatures left by these particles on the emulsion plates, so he was invited to collaborate at CERN (1948) and verify if they were also able to produce π mesons, as the energy needed for this was easily exceeded by the particle accelerator used, so they were probably already producing pions for a long time (since 1946), but they didn’t know exactly what to look for in the chambers bubble as being signatures of the π mesons. Lattes went to CERN and made the identifications. Again the work was distinguished with the Nobel and again Lattes was excluded from the award. In all, Lattes was nominated 7 times for the Nobel, but was never awarded. Oswaldo Cruz was also nominated for the Nobel Prize in Medicine, but was not awarded. Perhaps Machado de Assis would also have merit for a Nobel Prize in Literature. So, although there are 0 Brazilian Nobel laureates, maybe some have merit for that. There is a detailed text in which I analyze the case of Lattes, without the usual exaggerations and nationalist distortions of most articles about him, but at the same time acknowledging the merits he had that were not properly recognized.]

On the one hand, the low scientific production reflects the lack of funds, on the other hand, the lack of funds reflects the low scientific production, because if there really was scientific and technological production of good quality, large national and international companies would be interested in funding this research. , as they would profit from it. If private companies do not invest in Brazilian science, it is because such “investment” does not generate an expectation of profit, because the level of production is below what could justify some serious interest from entrepreneurs. I usually use the term “donation” for Brazilian science instead of “Investment”, because the meaning of “investment” is different. What Brazilian researchers demand is basically this: donation.

It is important to make it clear that I am not against funding Brazilian science, whether in the form of investment or donation. If I were against it, it would be stupid. I am against the bad management of the budget allocated to Science, combined with the terrible educational system and the complete lack of incentive for intellectual production. Intellectual production is not writing 50,000 useless papers to pretend that it is being produced and continue “sucking” on the grants of “research” funding agencies. Real intellectual production is serious effort to solve real and important problems. Therefore, instead of whining about lack of funds, the correct procedure would be a complete reformulation of the clowning that takes place in Brazilian Education and in Brazilian “scientific” research, they would need to start producing real, with high quality, as happens at IMPA , and then present substantial facts and consistent arguments to claim investments. Without it, the tearful speech to ask for donation is fragile. Certainly a crowd of unproductive researchers will stone me for this comment, but the few serious researchers will agree with me, although they may not have the courage to publicly acknowledge the position they defend, lest they be lynched by their colleagues.

Perhaps there are less than 1% of serious researchers in Brazil, among which I had the opportunity to meet some, such as Renato P. dos Santos, Roberto Venegeroles, André Gambaro, José Paulo Dieguez, Luis Anunciação, Antonio Piza, André Asevedo Nepomuceno, Herbert Kimura, Cristóvão Jacques, George Matsas, Doris Fontes among others. But unfortunately they represent a small fraction, and they do not always openly admit the disastrous situation in which Brazilian science finds itself, because the pressure is great for them to pretend to believe in the staging of which most of the others are part. When the person takes a fair position on this and tells forbidden truths, he begins to be cowardly boycotted on all sides, so it is understandable that many prefer to remain silent, avoiding manifesting, or simply pretending to agree with the fantasy. that try to propagate the situation of Science and Education in Brazil. Many criticized Copernicus because of the preface to his book Revolutionibus, for not having faced the dominant beliefs openly, but when analyzing the problems faced by Galileo, it is clear that the defense of the truth that goes against the interests of certain groups can be very onerous . And it would be naive to believe that the entities that dominate the world today (media, companies, universities, politicians, etc.) are more scrupulous than the medieval ecclesiastics were. There are certainly some entities that are more reputable and more sincerely committed to defending what is right and fair, but they are exceptions, unfortunately. “Ironically” the same people who are outraged by the persecution of Galileo are the people who today practice the same type of abuse, injustice and persecution.

This is a delicate situation, because if the immense majority builds a hoax and pretends that it is real, it becomes difficult for a small minority to restore the truth. For example: Roberto de Andrade Martins is a serious researcher, with post-docs in Cambridge and Oxford, with good knowledge and good understanding of Physics, Logic and Epistemology. He is completely rejected by his colleagues and by those who call themselves “scientific” disseminators, because Roberto tells undesirable truths. Roberto has never been invited to the major channels of scientific dissemination in Brazil, although he is by far more qualified than the overwhelming majority of those invited to these channels. This happens because in these channels, the most “commercial”, more “charismatic” figures are preferred in the eyes of those who pretend to be interested in Science, instead of serious scientists who tell forbidden truths about the tragic reality of science in the country and education in the country. country. YouTubers who call themselves “scientific promoters” in Brazil have to choose between truth and popularity, and almost always prefer the second option. In this way, they are dragging a farce that at some point will cause the country’s collapse, as happened with the former USSR in 1991, or with the Lehman Brothers bank in 2008. They were sweeping the dirt under the rug, until a point where the situation became untenable and the shack collapsed. There are a few serious scientific disseminators in Brazil, but these generally reach a much smaller, more enlightened audience that already sees the problem without it being necessary for someone to show them. The public that would really need to be informed remains “armored”, to serve no one’s interests, since no one will profit from the sinking of the nation. Chomsky once declared that “the purpose of the media is not to report what happens, but to shape public opinion in accordance with the will of the dominant corporate power.” In this case it is worse, because they are not shaping public opinion according to anyone’s will. They are just acting stupidly for everyone’s harm.

Hypocrisy is another terrible problem that affects a large number of Brazilian academics and pseudo science disseminators. When a foreigner comes to Brazil and says that Brazilian science is a joke, as Feynman did, he stomps and spits on Brazilian science, Brazilian academics certainly don’t like it, they are embarrassed, but even so they applaud the alpha male, like sycophantic primates. But when another Brazilian points out the same problem, they growl and rant at the heretic and try to keep him from talking about it.

There are a few more complications that cannot be overlooked: most cutting-edge science has no immediate application and can take decades or centuries to produce any return for the investor. The director of the Department of Mathematical Physics at USP, Ph.D. from MIT and Post Doctoral from MIT, Antonio Fernando Ribeiro de Toledo Piza, who in 1994 wanted to meet me in order to talk to me about a work I developed at age 19, about a method for calculating fractional factorials, in the middle of the conversation he mentioned an occasion in which Faraday was asked what the discoveries he had made about electricity and magnetism were for. Faraday responded with another question: “What good is a child who has just been born?” This phrase expresses a complex problem in the treatment of science as an “investment”, because the current human life expectancy is too short for some investments in science to be seen as attractive to private investors. These are investments that will only bring a return in 50 years, 100 years or more, for the following generations, for our children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, it is a tree that we will have the cost and work of planting, fertilizing, cultivating, protecting, but they are our grandchildren who will reap the rewards. For this reason, even in countries where science is prolific, it may not be attractive to private investors, whose time horizon for which they are willing to wait for results is usually shorter.

Having made this important caveat, it is necessary to emphasize that this discourse would be fallacious if used to try to save the terrible reputation of Brazilian science. What is produced in Brazil can rarely even be called “Science”. Data tabulation and descriptive reports are made about the task. To use Faraday’s argument I cited her above, in defense of investment in Science, it would first be necessary for Brazil to start producing real Science.

Real science involves innovation, paradigm shift, real improvement, critical, in-depth analysis that goes beyond the obvious and adds some new and useful knowledge to the legacy of humanity. In Brazil this is rarely done. In fact, this is rarely done in the world, but the level of scarcity of innovations is worse in Brazil than in other countries with a similar economic situation or with a similar HDI.

When I say “paradigm break” it doesn’t have to be something as grandiose as a new cosmological system or a unification theory. It could be something basic, like adding a little boron to photographic emulsion plates to preserve the records of π mesons all the way down from the mountains, as César Lattes did, or solving a homomorphic encryption problem that was open for 15 years, as he did Joao Antonio LJ, or develop a new educational system that allows teaching 1-year content in 40 days to a child who had below-average grades and after those 40 days the child starts to have the best grades in school, as Tamara PC did Rodrigues, or revise the BMI formula, as I did. They are small contributions, but they reveal scientific facts still unknown, or correct knowledge that has been incorrectly repeated for a long time, or in some way contribute to broadening the horizons of knowledge or to redirecting knowledge to a path closer to the truth. It is not a complete deconstruction and reconstruction of knowledge, as Newton did, but it is a brick added to the right place, or removed from the wrong place and repositioned in the right place. This is the minimum that would be expected of a scientist, but most of the time this minimum is not met, and Ph.D. they are distributed almost like a ritual, in which the candidate only has to show that he knows how to write and knows how to interpret a little of what is on some graphs – with several misinterpretations, by the way. Depending on the discipline, it is enough to show that you can write, you don’t even need to know how to read a chart. After performing the ritual, the person receives the Ph.D. label. and begins to receive money to continue with this nonsense, pretending to be producing Science.

The vast majority of doctoral theses and scientific articles do not present anything innovative. These titles are awarded to inflate egos and satisfy people’s vanity, but they are not associated with any intellectual merit or original scientific production. A person does elementary research, purely mechanical, to corroborate some results on which there are already hundreds of other similar studies, and receives a Ph.D. therefore, and the State pays these people to pretend that they are producing something relevant and they call it “Brazilian science”, but the correct name, at best, would be “data tabulation” and “descriptive reports”. I say “at best” because there are usually several blunders in these procedures, which makes the situation even more vexing.

The central problem is that there is no culture of producing innovations. It just repeats itself endlessly. There is no incentive for innovation, there is no charge for innovation, no reward for innovation and, worst of all, there are even penalties for innovation. In 1998, a friend (Patrícia EC), who was completing her doctorate at USP, found that some experimental data on dwarf galaxy morphology was inconsistent with expectations. Instead of her advisor helping her try to understand what could be causing it, he told her to redo the measurements because she must have made a mistake in the measurements or calculations. Up to this point, I agree with him, because these mistakes are often the most common. She redid and obtained results statistically equivalent to the first measurements. At this point the yellow alert turns red and her advisor should have paid more attention to the case. However, he told her to redo it again! This is complete nonsense. It’s unscientific. It is to destroy “evidence” that could contribute to expanding, revising, improving what was known until then. This is the level at which the so-called “Brazilian science” sect finds itself. If any discovery is contrary to established dogmas, it needs to be adjusted in some way until it conforms to the dogmas. In addition to the fact that there are no incentives for discoveries, when there is any indication that something new may be ahead, we try to erase the traces of the possible discovery! People are trained not to produce, not to innovate, not to discover!

Part of the education problem in the country is not the fault of teachers, students and researchers. They just dance to the music. But a big part of the problem is their fault, because they determine the music that should play. In addition, they can refuse to dance to the music, they can put on headphones with better music, and they can create their own center of excellence, as in the case of IMPA.

The academic community’s resistance to admitting these facts exacerbates the situation, because instead of trying to fix the problems, they pretend the problems don’t exist, sweep the dirt under the rug, and move on as if everything is fine. Recently, the president of Brazil made a brutal cut in funds destined for “science”. It is a delicate situation, because the problem of scientific unproductivity is not resolved in this way. The budget cut only exacerbates the situation. It is bad to allocate money to a sector that does not generate satisfactory results, but being a fundamental sector, the correct procedure is to restore that sector and ensure that it works as it should, instead of killing it, taking away its bread and water. It would need to exchange bread and water for a richer diet, increase investment in science and simultaneously reformulate the criteria for granting scholarships, granting funds, reducing the bureaucracy of importing books and scientific and technological products, promoting exchanges with qualified researchers, creating prizes for real merit related to excellence in the original production of relevant works, rather than the political front awards, among many other changes from basic education to the titles of professors emeritus.

In the 1970s, China, India and Thailand were much poorer and less developed countries than Brazil, but they made massive investments in identifying talented children and offered differentiated conditions to encourage these children. Thailand stopped the project. China and India did. In less than two decades, they began to reap the rewards, after one generation, these children became highly skilled teachers, who provided the next generation with an even more exquisite education, and today China is on its way to becoming the greatest economic power, cultural, scientific and technological world, and India follows closely. There was a serious and profound overhaul of the education system so that they could get to where they are now. Instead of pretending they were doing science, they admitted the unproductiveness and low quality of what they produced, and started to fix what was wrong. One of the great problems in Brazil is precisely this inability to admit mistakes.


Portuguese Version

Entrevista para Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Preâmbulo:

Em primeiro lugar eu quero agradecer à minha namorada Tamara, pela paciência de ler esse texto e me ajudar a cortar longos trechos desnecessários, a Tor pela gentileza de me indicar para essa entrevista e a você (Scott) por aceitar essa indicação e por sua amável ajuda com a revisão da tradução.

Na medida do possível, procurei sintetizar e simplificar, mas sempre que foi necessário decidir entre a resposta mais curta e a mais correta, optei por aquela que me parecia a mais correta. Como resultado, acabei me estendendo mais do que gostaria e ramificando algumas respostas por detalhes que aparentemente perdem o vínculo com a pergunta, mas que, na verdade, estão indiretamente conectados por dois, três ou mais nós, de modo que se esses trechos fossem removidos, ficariam lacunas que comprometeriam a coerência.

Antes de apresentar as respostas é necessário fazer alguns esclarecimentos importantes: quando a pergunta é simples, basta dar uma resposta curta para que a interpretação seja unívoca, mas para questões complexas, antes de responder é necessário conceituar alguns dos termos utilizados, para minimizar as diferenças entre a mensagem a ser transmitida e a interpretação que dela será feita. Uma questão do tipo “Por que, no Xadrez, nem todos os Peões dobrados são debilidades?” Não há como responder de modo a proporcionar uma ideia correta em apenas 1 ou 2 parágrafos, nem mesmo se a resposta fosse simplificada e resumida. Para tentar proporcionar uma ideia razoavelmente correta e completa, são necessárias pelo menos 20 páginas, com vários exemplos comentados. Nessa entrevista, algumas perguntas envolvem situações semelhantes.

Esse tipo de dificuldade é inerente a qualquer pergunta envolvendo QI, porque o conceito atualmente disseminado apresenta algumas falhas que precisam ser devidamente revisadas, e algumas dessas revisões não são triviais, exigindo um volume considerável de esclarecimentos preliminares para garantir que a interpretação da resposta seja suficientemente acurada e fidedigna.

Fora das sociedades de alto QI é comum que façam confusão entre escalas com desvios padrão diferentes. O escore 1579 de James Woods no SAT é frequentemente convertido em 180, enquanto o escore 1590 de Bill Gates é convertido em 154 (às vezes 160), e ambos aparecem na mesma lista como se o QI de Woods fosse maior que o de Gates, embora seja o contrário. Esse tipo de erro primário foi praticamente erradicado nas sociedades de alto QI, mas ainda há erros sistemáticos sendo repetidos ostensivamente, alguns dos quais são grandes e graves. Esses erros provocam muitas confusões e dificultam a correta interpretação de questões fundamentais. Eu não me refiro a erros individuais, cometidos por algumas pessoas, mas sim a erros “institucionalizados”, universalmente aceitos como se fossem corretos e cometidos por praticamente todas as pessoas.

Em 2000, resolvi um problema central da Psicometria que vinha se arrastando desde os anos 1950, quando Thurstone e Gardner perceberam a importância de padronizar testes cognitivos de modo a produzir escores em escala de proporção. Bob Seitz, da Mega Society, referiu-se a esse problema como “O Santo Graal da Psicometria”. Depois de investigar esse problema e resolvê-lo, publiquei um artigo descrevendo meu método e mostrando como os testes deveriam ser normatizados. Também revisei as normas do Mega Test e Titan Test utilizando esse método. Em 2003, apliquei o mesmo método ao Sigma Test e publiquei outro artigo, mais detalhado, descrevendo passo-a-passo todo o processo de normatização e explicando os motivos pelos quais esse procedimento é superior aos métodos utilizados. Entre os problemas crônicos que são solucionados de forma natural com a aplicação desse método, um dos mais importantes é a correção nos cálculos dos percentis e dos níveis de raridade. Esse é um erro sistemático que vem sendo cometido desde 1905. Comentarei essa questão com um pouco mais de detalhes ao responder a questões que tratam desse tema.

Há dois outros erros que são cometidos sistematicamente, embora as soluções para eles já sejam conhecidas, mas não são aplicadas, em parte porque esses problemas não são bem compreendidos: o problema de validade de constructo e o problema da adequação do nível de dificuldade das questões ao nível de inteligência que se pretende medir. De certo modo, esses problemas estão conectados, porque geralmente os testes apresentam boa validade de constructo para determinado intervalo de níveis de habilidade, mas não para todo o intervalo no qual o teste pretende medir, assim os resultados acabam se mostrando razoavelmente acurados e fidedignos para pessoas cujos escores estejam dentro do intervalo de validade, mas começam a apresentar sérias distorções fora desse intervalo. Um exemplo clássico para ilustrar esse problema é o Stanford-Binet V. Os processos cognitivos exigidos para solucionar as questões do SBV podem ser apropriados para medir corretamente a inteligência no intervalo de 60 a 140, mas começam a se mostrar menos apropriados entre 140 a 150, por isso os escores acima de 150 já estão representando predominantemente um traço latente que não é o que se pretendia medir. Isso compromete inteira a validade desse tipo de instrumento para a aferição acima de 150, e coloca em dúvida em que medida os escores entre 140 e 150 estão de fato refletindo o nível intelectual.

Para organizar melhor as informações, antes de prosseguir citarei 3 erros importantes que são cometidos sistematicamente pelos psicometristas profissionais e nas sociedades de alto QI:

  1. A maneira como os testes são padronizados, tanto os testes clínicos quanto os high range IQ tests (hrIQts) – seja pelo uso de Teoria de Resposta ao Item, seja pela Teoria Clássica dos Testes –, produz distorções na escala, e a maneira como os percentis são calculados conduz a resultados muito distantes da realidade. Essa distorção na escala já foi apontada desde os anos 1950, por Thurstone, e já havia sido notada (embora não tivesse sido descrita) pelo próprio Binet em 1905. Um bom método para normatização de testes de inteligência deveria produzir escores numa escala de proporção, mas os escores de QI se apresentam numa escala ordinal (https://www.questionpro.com/blog/nominal-ordinal-interval-ratio/). Além disso, os erros nos cálculos dos níveis de raridade apresentam distorções muito grandes nos escores mais altos, chegando a mais de 3 ordens de grandeza. Isso acontece porque os cálculos partem da hipótese incorreta de que a distribuição dos QIs é gaussiana em toda sua extensão. A morfologia da distribuição é de fato muito semelhante à de uma gaussiana no intervalo -2σ a +2σ, mas começa a degringolar fora desse intervalo. Esse fato não pode ser negligenciado quando se calcula os percentis. Da maneira como os cálculos são feitos atualmente pelos psicometristas e nas comunidades de alto QI, chega-se a resultados muito distantes dos corretos. Por isso, quando se fala em percentil 99,9999% ou QI 176 (σ=16), os significados são muito diferentes, embora sejam usados como se fossem a mesma coisa. A raridade correta para o QI=176 não é 1 em 983.000, mas sim 1 em 24.500. E isso não acontece porque o desvio padrão seja maior. O desvio padrão é o mesmo (16 nesse exemplo), porém a cauda direita é mais densa do que numa distribuição normal, tornando os escores mais altos mais abundantes do que seria esperado se a distribuição fosse exatamente gaussiana. Trata-se de um problema relacionado à morfologia da distribuição verdadeira, que não se ajusta ao modelo teórico de distribuição normal. Na verdade, não se ajusta bem a nenhuma das mais de 100 distribuições testadas, inclusive as mais versáteis, como a distribuição de Weibull com 3 parâmetros.
  2. Outro problema é que o nível de dificuldade das questões mais difíceis de cada teste não é compatível com o teto nominal do teste. Como consequência, tal teste mostra-se inapropriado para o intervalo de QIs que deveria medir. O teste funciona adequadamente dentro de certo intervalo, no qual contenha questões com dificuldade compatível, mas deixa de funcionar fora desse intervalo. Isso é muito mais grave nos testes clínicos, cujo teto de dificuldade raramente ultrapassa 135 a 140, mas o teto nominal pode chegar a mais de 200 (Stanford-Binet V, por exemplo). Acima de 140, os testes clínicos medem a rapidez para resolver problemas elementares, que não é necessariamente uma métrica apropriada para representar a inteligência nos níveis mais altos. Nos casos de hrIQt, no quesito “dificuldade”, as questões geralmente são apropriadas até cerca de 170 ou 180, mas não muito acima disso. Aqui seria necessário abrir um extenso parêntesis para discutir o significado desses escores, porque até 130 ou um pouco acima, a raridade teórica é quase igual à raridade verdadeira, mas para 140, 150 e acima, a raridade teórica vai se tornando cada vez mais distante da raridade verdadeira. Então quando falamos em 180 de QI (σ=16), não basta informar o desvio padrão. Além disso é necessário informar se estamos falando do escore medido em um teste ou se é um percentil verdadeiro convertido em QI. Se a distribuição dos QIs fosse exatamente gaussiana em todo o seu espectro, então um QI 180 (σ=16) deveria corresponder ao nível de raridade de 1 em 3.500.000, mas a raridade verdadeira de escores 180 fica em torno de 1 em 48.000. Mais adiante, menciono link no qual descrevo como chegar a esse nível de raridade de 1 em 48.000.
  3. Outro problema está relacionado à validade de constructo, isto é, se aquilo que o teste está medindo é de fato aquilo que se pretende medir. Os melhores testes clínicos (WAIS e SB) são muito bons nesse critério para o intervalo de 70 a 130, porque esse tema tem sido amplamente debatido entre bons psicometristas ao longo de décadas e se conseguiu estabelecer alguns bons critérios para avaliar (ainda que subjetivamente) se os itens estão medindo o que deveriam medir (a inteligência, nesse caso, ou o fator g). Entretanto, fora desse intervalo de 70 a 130, a variável medida vai se tornando cada vez mais destoante daquilo que se pretendia medir. Nos hrIQts o alcance é um pouco maior, chega a cerca de 160, alguns testes chegam 170 ou até 180.

Além desses 3 problemas que são observados em praticamente todos os testes clínicos e todos os hrIQts, há também alguns problemas individuais, que são mais básicos e afetam apenas alguns testes específicos, como norma inflada, erros no gabarito, erros nos enunciados etc. Não tratarei desses, porque já são bastante conhecidos e fáceis de identificar e corrigir.

É importante não confundir a validade de constructo com a adequação do nível de dificuldade. Uma questão muito elementar, com um prazo muito curto para ser resolvida, pode ter dificuldade adequada para medir no nível de raridade 1 em 10 milhões, porque embora seja intrinsecamente fácil, como o prazo é reduzido, acaba se tornando difícil resolver dentro daquele prazo. Em casos assim, a dificuldade pode ser apropriada para medir alguma coisa em níveis muito altos de raridade, mas esse traço latente que está sendo medido não é o que deveria ser medido. Além disso, o fato de um teste ter validade de construto num determinado intervalo não implica que terá necessariamente validade em níveis muito acima ou muito abaixo daquele intervalo. Esse é um dos erros mais comuns, porque ao validar um teste de inteligência para 98% da população, isso não garante que ele continue medindo corretamente a inteligência no nível dos 1% ou 0,1% de escores mais altos. A validação precisa ser cuidadosa em todos os intervalos nos quais se pretende que o teste seja capaz de medir corretamente.

Há também alguns problemas mais sutis. O Raven Standard Progressive Matrices, por exemplo, tem sido utilizado pela Mensa em vários países durante décadas, mas é inadequado para medir corretamente acima de 120, talvez até acima de 115. O motivo é que o teste é constituído por 60 questões, mas apenas 1 ou 2 dessas questões (as mais difíceis) são úteis para discriminar no nível de 133, que é onde a Mensa pretende selecionar. Então é como se fossem utilizadas apenas 2 das 60 questões, e uma amostra com apenas 2 elementos não pode ser considerada válida estatisticamente. Na verdade, o corte em 133 não é determinado exatamente por 1 ou 2 questões, mas estas 2 questões respondem por mais de 90% do poder discriminante do teste nesse nível de corte.

Por essas razões, se há interesse sincero em que perguntas sobre QI recebam respostas representativas da realidade, esses três problemas precisam ser corrigidos:

  1. Extrapolação infundada da validade de constructo;
  2. Inadequação da dificuldade dos itens para o nível intelectual que o teste pretende medir;
  3. Adoção de hipóteses incorretas sobre a forma da distribuição dos escores nos níveis mais altos, com base na forma na região próxima à tendência central.

Além desses, há outros pontos que precisam ser esclarecidos. Há um mito amplamente disseminado de que testes aplicados em clínicas são “melhores” (mais confiáveis, mais acurados, mais fidedignos) do que hrIQts. Em alguns casos, realmente são. Mas não em todos. Para escores abaixo de 130, como os testes supervisionados são normatizados com base em amostras maiores e não-seletas, isso constitui uma vantagem real dos testes clínicos em comparação aos hrIQts. Outra vantagem é que os bons psicometristas conhecem maior número de técnicas estatísticas, por isso na faixa de 70 a 130 geralmente os melhores testes supervisionados produzem escores mais fidedignos. Porém acima de 130 e, principalmente, acima de 140, os testes supervisionados apresentam vários problemas, a começar pelo teto inadequado de dificuldade. As questões mais difíceis do WAIS, por exemplo, são excessivamente fáceis para que possam medir a inteligência acima de 135. Outro problema é que a validade de constructo dos testes supervisionados é planejada para o intervalo de 70 a 130, não se aplicando tão bem fora desse intervalo.

Fiz um exemplo simulado para mostrar em que consiste o problema da variável de constructo:

1.png

A linha azul representa o traço latente[*] que gostaríamos de medir (inteligência ou fator g ou algo assim). Os círculos vermelhos representam os escores obtidos no teste convertidos em QI. No intervalo entre 0 e 120, os escores medidos são representações muito boas do traço latente, porque os pontos se distribuem estreitamente perto da linha azul, indicando forte correlação entre a variável que gostaríamos de medir e a variável que estamos realmente medindo. [* https://dictionary.apa.org/latent-trait-theory, https://www.jstor.org/stable/1434009]

A partir de 120, e principalmente a partir de 130, os círculos vermelhos começam a se afastar cada vez mais da linha azul, indicando que a correlação entre a variável que gostaríamos de medir e a variável que está sendo realmente medida se torna cada vez mais fraca, portanto aquilo que estamos medindo está cada vez sendo menos representativo do que gostaríamos de medir. Se considerar o intervalo inteiro de 0 a 200, ou mesmo de 70 a 200, a correlação ainda parece forte, mas isso só acontece porque o intervalo de 70 a 120 está contido dentro do intervalo de 70 a 200, e como no intervalo 70 a 120 a correlação é forte, isso melhora a correlação média do intervalo inteiro de 70 a 200, mas quando se considera exclusivamente a correlação entre 130 e 200, percebe-se que a correlação é fraca nessa região e vai se tornando mais fraca para os escores mais altos. Por isso para escores acima de 130 o que importa não é a correlação global, mas sim a correlação local.

Em testes de QI como o Stanford-Binet, por exemplo, algumas pessoas muito rápidas com QI verdadeiro 150 podem obter escore 190 ou mais, como consequência do problema descrito acima. Também pode acontecer o efeito oposto, e pessoas com QI verdadeiro 190, se forem muito lentas, podem ter escore 150, 140 ou até menos. O tamanho dos erros pode chegar a níveis realmente muito altos, tanto para mais que o correto quanto para menos que o correto, por isso é que a validade de constructo[*] é um quesito extremamente importante. [* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Construct_validity]

Um teste que tenha boa validade de constructo deve apresentar comportamento como o do gráfico abaixo, em que os círculos vermelhos permanecem próximos à linha azul ao longo de todo espectro dentro do qual se pretende medir:

2.png

Naturalmente, se a amostra tiver distribuição normal, os dados se distribuirão aproximadamente como uma elipse, não como uma linha que foi representada acima, mas para fins didáticos esse exemplo precisa ser assim para ficar visualmente mais claro o aumento na amplitude da dispersão das medidas em relação ao traço latente que gostaríamos de medir.  Também convém enfatizar que, no mundo real, situações como a do gráfico acima praticamente não existem, porque o alinhamento está excessivamente bom. Mas é desejável que os escores medidos sejam capazes de oferecer boas representações para o traço latente dentro de um intervalo tão largo quanto possível.

Nos testes de QI supervisionados, utilizados em clínicas, geralmente as disparidades começam a se tornar graves a partir de 130 e principalmente a partir de 140, ou seja, aquilo que o teste mede acima de 140 deixa de ser uma boa representação da Inteligência. Nos casos dos melhores hrIQts, os escores continuam sendo representações razoavelmente boas do traço latente até QI 160 ou um pouco mais.

Um teste pode ter questões com nível de dificuldade apropriado, mas aquilo que as questões estão medindo pode não ser a inteligência. Ou pode acontecer de que a variável medida seja a inteligência, mas apenas num intervalo específico (como no primeiro gráfico). Alguns quebra-cabeças para crianças, por exemplo, podem ser eficientes para medir corretamente no intervalo entre idade mental de 8 a 16 anos, ou 50 a 100 de QI numa escala para adultos, mas se utilizar esses mesmos quebra-cabeças para tentar medir os QIs de adultos acima de 160 ou 170, o resultado será desastroso, porque a habilidade para resolver rapidamente esses quebra-cabeças não pode ser interpretada como uma boa representação da inteligência nesse nível. Por isso o tipo de problema precisa ser compatível com o nível intelectual que se pretende medir.

Geralmente as pessoas mais inteligentes também são mais rápidas para resolver questões básicas, mas o fato de resolver rapidamente questões simples não oferece uma boa garantia de que a pessoa também será capaz de resolver questões mais complexas, profundas e que exijam criatividade. Além disso, o fato de a pessoa ser capaz de resolver questões complexas, profundas e que exigem criatividade não oferece boa garantia de que ela será capaz de resolver rapidamente questões básicas. Como os testes utilizados em clínicas incluem exclusivamente questões básicas, o efeito apresentado no gráfico 1 acaba sendo muito frequente.

Essa questão é analisada com mais detalhes no texto introdutório do Sigma Test Extended.

Também é necessário padronizar os significados de alguns termos que vou utilizar nas respostas:

rIQ = QI de raridade, ou QI (σ=16 G), ou rIQ (σ=16 G)

pIQ = QI de potencial, ou QI (σ=16 T), ou pIQ (σ=16 T)

Explicações detalhadas podem ser encontradas em https://www.sigmasociety.net/escalasqi. Aqui darei uma explicação resumida: rIQ é o valor que teria o QI convertido a partir da raridade verdadeira. Isso não é o QI medido nos testes de QI nem em hrIQts. O QI medido é o pIQ, cuja distribuição não é gaussiana, a distribuição tem uma cauda densa, por isso os escores de pIQ são mais abundantes do que o previsto com base na hipótese de normalidade da distribuição. Isso não tem relação com o desvio padrão ser maior. O desvio padrão é o mesmo. A forma da distribuição que é diferente, concentrando mais casos na cauda direita e menos na região central. Nas regiões próximas à tendência central, pIQ é quase igual ao rIQ e se mantém assim até cerca de 130. A partir de então, pIQ vai se tornando maior que rIQ. Alguns exemplos:

rIQ 100 equivale a pIQ 100,00

rIQ 130 equivale a pIQ 130,87

rIQ 150 equivale a pIQ 156,59

rIQ 180 equivale a pIQ 204,93

(Uma tabela completa está disponível na página do Sigma Test Extended)

A diferença entre pIQ e rIQ aumenta conforme o rIQ aumenta, porque a proporção em que a densidade real da cauda fica maior que a densidade teórica é cada vez maior à medida que o QI se afasta da média.

Quando se compara QIs estimados com base na raridade com QIs medidos em testes, é fundamental colocar ambos na mesma escala. Por exemplo: digamos que Newton seja considerado a pessoa mais inteligente da História e digamos que o número de pessoas que já nasceram seja 100 bilhões. Então o QI de Newton estimado com base na raridade e com base na hipótese de que a distribuição dos escores é normal seria rIQ=207,3 (σ=16, G). Mas a distribuição real dos escores não é normal, por isso não se pode comparar esse 207,3 com um escore 207 medido num teste, porque estão em escalas diferentes. Ambos podem ter mesmo desvio padrão (16, nesse caso), mas a forma da distribuição é diferente e isso não pode ser negligenciado porque a distorção produzida é gigantesca.

O rIQ de Newton seria 207,3 mas seu pIQ seria 261,8. Repetindo: ambos os escores são com desvio padrão 16, tanto o rIQ quanto o pIQ. Não se deve confundir esse processo com a mudança de escalas com desvios padrão diferentes. Os desvios padrão são iguais, mas a forma da curva é diferente. Eu estou repetindo isso várias vezes porque já vi pessoas confundindo isso apenas um parágrafo depois de isso ter sido esclarecido.

Esse ajuste é necessário para corrigir as distorções das normas e possibilitar o cálculo correto das raridades a partir dos escores medidos nos testes, ou o processo inverso de calcular o QI a partir do nível de raridade.

Desse modo, a pessoa com maior rIQ (σ=16 G) numa população de 7,9 bilhões tem rIQ 201,2 que equivale a pIQ (σ=16 T) 247,8. Os escores 201,2 (σ=16 G) e 247,8 (σ=16 T) são equivalentes, como 0ºC e 32ºF. O uso do termo rIQ equivale ao uso do termo QI (σ=16 G), enquanto o uso do termo pIQ equivale ao uso do termo (σ=16 T). Também posso eventualmente utilizar rIQ (σ=16 G) ou pIQ (σ=16 T).

Por isso os testes podem produzir (e de fato produzem) escores acima de 200 com desvio padrão 15 ou 16, mas o cálculo correto dos níveis de raridade ou dos percentis não deve ser realizado da maneira como tem sido feito há décadas. Os cálculos de percentis e de raridade estão errados, conforme já demonstrei desde meus artigos de 2000 a respeito disso. Eu não estou me referindo a testes com normas infladas. Claro que esse problema se torna mais grave quando as normas estão infladas, mas mesmo quando as normas foram calculadas adequadamente, como nos casos da norma do Mega Test ou do Titan Test, tanto a versão de Hoeflin quanto a versão de Grady Towers, ambas fornecem valores incorretos para os percentis. Os escores de QI estão muito próximos dos valores “corretos”, que seriam os valores ajustados a uma escala de intervalo bem padronizada. O problema não está nos QIs medidos, mas sim nos percentis calculados com base na hipótese incorreta de que esses escores teriam uma distribuição normal. Esse tema voltará a ser analisado outras vezes, com mais detalhes, quando os tópicos abordados exigirem isso. Por enquanto, essa introdução deve ser suficiente para desfazer boa parte das confusões que acontecem com uso indiscriminado do termo “QI”, sem fazer a correta distinção entre pIQ e rIQ.

Quando Chris Harding foi registrado no Guinness Book de 1966 com QI 197, com base em seus resultados no Stanford-Binet, isso foi um erro relativamente primário e grave, porque incorre em todos os 3 itens problemáticos que citei acima: o SB não inclui questões suficientemente difíceis para medir corretamente acima de 135; os processos cognitivos exigidos nas soluções não são apropriados para QIs acima de 150; o nível de raridade calculado é incorreto.

Em 1966, a população mundial era de 3,41 bilhões de pessoas, e o nível teórico de raridade para escores 197, assumindo que a distribuição dos escores fosse uma gaussiana com média 100 e desvio padrão 16, era 1 em 1,49 bilhões. Então parecia ser plausível que uma pessoa com esse escore poderia ser proclamada a mais inteligente do mundo, ou pelo menos a pessoa com maior QI do mundo. Entretanto, uma análise correta da situação revela que o escore 197 no SB não indica nível de raridade de 1 em 1.490.000.000, mas sim 1 em 870.000 (cerca de 2000 vezes mais abundante). Além disso, a variável medida no nível de raridade de 1 em 870.000 não é a inteligência. Nessa conjuntura, o máximo que se poderia afirmar com base num escore 197 no SB é que a pessoa apresentou evidência consistente de possuir nível intelectual acima de 135 de QI, e como seu escore nominal foi muito acima de 135, há boas probabilidades de que seu QI correto seja maior que 150, talvez maior que 160, mas seria necessário prescrever um exame complementar, com questões mais difíceis e com validade constructo apropriada, para investigar qual o nível intelectual real dessa pessoa, já que os escores acima de 135 ficam fora do intervalo no qual o teste é capaz de medir corretamente.

Nos anos seguintes, começaram a surgir várias outras pessoas reivindicando o mesmo recorde, com escores 196-197. Isso prosseguiu até 1978, quando a situação se agravou, primeiramente com Kim Ung-Yong com escore 210, depois Marilyn vos Savant com escore 230, corrigido para 228, depois corrigido para 218, e finalmente Keith Raniere, em 1989, com escore 242. Todos baseados em testes clínicos que não são apropriados para medir corretamente acima de 135.

Um problema similar aconteceu com Langan, no Mega Test. O nível de dificuldade das questões do Mega Test é apropriado para medir corretamente até cerca de pIQ 194, equivalente a cerca de rIQ 177, que corresponde a um nível de raridade de 1 em 1.340.000. Esse é o nível de raridade realista correspondente ao teto do Mega Test. Em 2000 eu havia calculado para o Mega Test um teto de pIQ 186, equivalente a rIQ 169, portanto nível de raridade de 1 em 124.000, mas eu estava me baseando na amostra de 520 testees disponível no site do Miyaguchi. Porém essa amostra não é representativa do conjunto de mais de 4.000 pessoas examinadas com o Mega Test. Essa amostra está estratificada de 10 em 10 (10 pessoas com cada QI, quando possível). Por isso há uma concentração de escores altos acima do “correto”, fazendo com que a dificuldade dos itens, especialmente os itens mais difíceis (que é determinada pela proporção entre os erros e acertos) acabe sendo menor do que a correta, já que havendo mais pessoas com escores mais altos, haverá maior porcentagem de acertadores do que se tivesse sido considerada a amostra inteira. Outro fator é que mesmo considerando todas as mais de 4.000 pessoas avaliadas pelo Mega Test, há uma self-selection que produz uma concentração de pessoas com escores altos maior do que a observada entre a população em geral. Com esses dois ajustes complementares, refiz meus cálculos para essa norma e cheguei aos números que citei acima.

Portanto, com um escore bruto 47/48, obtido por Langan em sua segunda tentativa, o rIQ correspondente é 176, equivalente a pIQ 192, isto é, nível de raridade de aproximadamente 1 em 983.000. O nível de raridade real da Mega Society fica em torno de 1 em 62.000 e da Prometheus 1 em 8.000. Nos casos de ISPE, TNS etc., como estão numa faixa em que as distorções são menores, a raridade verdadeira também fica mais próxima da raridade teórica. 1 em 600. E no caso da Intertel e Mensa, praticamente não são afetadas. O percentil teórico 98,04% para escore pIQ 133 equivale a rIQ 131,8, portanto percentil 97,66%.

Há dois outros pontos que eu gostaria de comentar nesse texto introdutório, antes de prosseguir: sobre o significado de “inteligência” e sobre o significado de “certificado”, mas o texto ficou muito extenso e talvez seja melhor remover, bem como outras partes de algumas respostas. De qualquer modo, salvei o texto integral num arquivo separado, caso tenha alguma utilidade complementar ou para ser utilizado em outra ocasião.

Feitos esses esclarecimentos, agora podemos dar início às respostas.

Entrevista

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Quando você estava crescendo, quais eram algumas das histórias familiares proeminentes sendo contadas ao longo do tempo?

Hindemburg Melão Jr.: não me interesso muito por histórias.

Jacobsen: Essas histórias ajudaram a dar uma noção de um eu estendido ou uma noção do legado da família?

Melão Jr.: meus avós eram muito pobres, meu pai só estudou até o segundo ano do Ensino Fundamental (2º ano). Ele era excepcionalmente inteligente, criativo, tinha hipermnésia e uma grande variedade de talentos intelectuais e sinestésicos. Isso permitiu que ele saísse de uma situação de extrema pobreza e proporcionasse um ambiente satisfatório para os filhos, mas não muito além disso. O legado de meus pais é quase exclusivamente genético.

Jacobsen: Qual era a origem familiar, por exemplo, geografia, cultura, idioma e religião ou a falta dela?

Melão Jr.: meu bisavô materno era índio nativo do Brasil, meu bisavô paterno era português. Minha família era católica na época que nasci, mas posteriormente se converteram ao Kardecismo, preservando alguns hábitos católicos. Eu me tornei ateu, aproximadamente aos 11 anos, depois agnóstico aos 17 e deísta desde os 27. Tive interesse na Fé Bahá’í por algum tempo, mas não cheguei a participar de nenhuma atividade. Estou escrevendo um livro que trata de Ciência e Religião, no qual abordo alguns desses tópicos com mais detalhes.

Jacobsen: Como foi a experiência com colegas e colegas de escola quando criança e adolescente?

Melão Jr.: foi razoavelmente tranquilo, não tive problemas com bullying que pudessem ser associados a alguma discriminação por motivos cognitivos. Sofri bullying por outros motivos, porque eu tinha as sobrancelhas unidas, mas nada que chegasse ao ponto de me causar grandes constrangimentos, mesmo porque eu praticava artes marciais desde os 7 anos, por isso se eu achasse que estavam passando dos limites, eu reagia de forma enérgica e isso evitava que voltassem a me importunar.

Meus problemas foram com alguns professores, mais do que com colegas, porque eu tinha a visão incorreta de que os professores não podiam cometer erros na disciplina deles, mas no mundo real é muito diferente disso. Praticamente todos os professores cometiam vários erros todos os dias, e eu costumava apontar os erros mais graves. A maioria deles reagia positivamente a isso, alguns agradeciam pelas correções e revisavam imediatamente, mas outros não aceitavam esse tipo de correção, especialmente quando vinha de uma criança de 7 ou 8 anos. Um episódio marcante ocorreu numa aula de Geografia, quando eu tinha 9 anos, e a professora solicitou aos alunos que calculassem o tamanho do litoral brasileiro. Quando comecei a executar a tarefa, percebi que aquilo não fazia sentido, porque a medida dependeria do nível de detalhes do mapa, logo não havia uma resposta possível. Então expliquei o problema a ela, mas ela não entendeu minha explicação. Ela achou que eu estivesse me referindo ao fato de o mapa estar numa escala diferente do tamanho real. Então expliquei novamente, mas não adiantou, ela continuou sem entender, ficou irritada e acabou agindo de forma opressiva, ordenando que eu me calasse, e continuou a “ensinar” incorretamente. Foi um episódio muito desagradável. Geralmente os erros que eu identificava eram erros dos professores, mas nesse caso era muito mais grave, porque era um erro institucionalizado e aceito como se fosse correto pelas “autoridades” naquela disciplina, estava errado no livro e provavelmente em todos os outros livros, sendo ensinado incorretamente a todos os alunos. Aliás, isso continua errado até hoje, 40 anos depois, em praticamente todas as fontes sobre o assunto, inclusive na Wikipedia, Enciclopédia Britânica, IBGE, Cia World Factbook, U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics etc. O problema não é que o número da medida esteja errado. O problema é que a pergunta não faz sentido porque não há um “comprimento” do litoral, não existe uma resposta possível com dimensão 1, porque o perímetro tem uma dimensão maior que 1 e menor que 2. Embora tenha sido desagradável, foi também um evento do qual me lembro com orgulho, por ter deduzido um dos fundamentos da Geometria Fractal, de improviso, aos 9 anos.

Jacobsen: Quais foram algumas certificações, qualificações e treinamentos profissionais obtidos por você?

Melão Jr.: a finalidade primordial das certificações deveria ser atestar que determinada pessoa ou determinada entidade cumpre quesitos que não seriam facilmente verificáveis por uma pessoa da população em geral. Por exemplo: uma pessoa sem muita instrução teria dificuldade para avaliar corretamente se um médico está capacitado para tratar da saúde dela, ou decidir se seria melhor receber tratamento de um método alopata ou de um curandeiro. Por isso há entidades reguladoras, constituídas por especialistas experientes e supostamente competentes, que estabelecem normas que teoricamente deveriam ser necessárias e suficientes para distinguir entre profissionais qualificados e não-qualificados, protegendo a população menos esclarecida contra a prestação de serviços e produtos insatisfatórios ou até mesmo nocivos. Isso é bonito na teoria, mas na prática não funciona tão bem, e a indústria das certificações acaba servindo a outros propósitos, entre os quais a reserva de mercado, o nepotismo, o culto à vaidade e egolatria.

Os certificados muitas vezes não cumprem a função para a qual foram criados, ora aprovando pessoas/entidades insuficientemente capacitado, ora deixando de aprovar pessoas sobrequalificadas. Por essa razão, mais importante e mais justo seria examinar as realizações, as competências e os méritos reais, em vez de examinar as certificações que reconheceriam esses méritos, porque os méritos têm valor intrínseco, enquanto as certificações são meras aparências que algumas vezes tentam representar os méritos, mas nem sempre acertam.

Há inclusive uma ampla indústria para comércio de certificados fraudulentos, e pouca fiscalização sobre isso. A American Biographical Institute (ABI) é famosa pela venda de certificações sem valor, e continua atuando desde 1967. Há muitas entidades similares, especializadas na impressão de certificados bonitos, promoção de cerimônias de homologação etc. Geralmente as pessoas que consomem esses produtos são vítimas ingênuas, mas também é possível que algumas pessoas comprem esses certificados cientes de que eles significam (ou não significam).

Na Wikipedia consta a seguinte descrição para a ABI:

“The American Biographical Institute (ABI) was a paid-inclusion vanity biographical reference directory publisher based in Raleigh, North Carolina which had been publishing biographies since 1967. It generated revenue from sales of fraudulent certificates and books. Each year the company awarded hundreds of “Man of the Year” or “Woman of the Year” awards at between $195 and $295 each.” Fonte: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Biographical_Institute

Atualmente há várias universidades de P.O. Box distribuindo títulos de Ph.D. como água. Eu assisti a algumas declarações de pessoas que compraram esses títulos, a grande maioria dessas pessoas realmente acreditava que tinham algum valor e se mostravam emocionadas, felizes e orgulhosas ao receber o título. Mas talvez nem todos sejam ingênuos e alguns compreendam que esses títulos não representam algo real, mas usam isso com finalidades obscuras. Há um membro da mensa brasil que possui mais de 50 títulos acadêmicos por uma universidade de P.O. Box, fundada em 2021, mas no site da “instituição” alega ter sido fundada em 2006. Acho engraçado, e ao mesmo tempo triste, que os jornalistas que publicam as matérias sobre isso não desconfiam que seja estranho uma pessoa de 40 anos, que tinha apenas 1 B.Sc. até 2020, de repente passou a ter mais de 50 títulos acadêmicos em 2022, inclusive vários Ph.Ds. e pós-doutorados. Além dos certificados comprados, essa pessoa também afirma que a TNS é a sociedade de alto QI mais exclusiva do mundo, ele usa o QI dele com desvio padrão 24 para comparar com um “QI” fictício 160 atribuído a Einstein, entre outras coisas, e os jornalistas publicam tudo sem conferir.

Há também pessoas que compram esses certificados, sabendo que não têm valor, sem a intenção de fazer uso desonesto, talvez como um enfeite de mesa ou algo assim. Por exemplo, Chris Harding é cliente da ABI, possui vários títulos adquiridos dessa empresa, conforme ele mesmo declara em seu perfil na OlympIQ Society. Harding tem alguns méritos reais, porque mesmo que o SB não avalie corretamente acima de 140, é reconhecido que esse teste avalia algum tipo de habilidade misturado com inteligência, e poucas pessoas alcançam o escore de Harding nesse exame. Portanto, embora alguns certificados dele sejam comprados, outros são baseados em méritos reais e emitidos por instituições sérias, como os relacionados a seus recordes de QI e suas filiações a sociedades de alto QI. Entretanto, mesmo os certificados idôneos, que tentam representar méritos verdadeiros, muitas vezes atestam algo que não é uma boa representação da realidade. Conforme comentei no início, o escore 197 ou 196 no SB não poderia ser interpretado da maneira como foi, e os laudos oficiais e os certificados emitidos estão dizendo algo que representa uma crença coletiva, mas muito diferente da realidade concreta.

Harding é muito inteligente, mas não com base no escore que ele obteve no SB, e sim com base em várias opiniões dele sobre diferentes assuntos. Os méritos reais dele estão em sua essência, em suas ações, seus pensamentos, não em pedaços de papel.

A partir do momento em que a pessoa canaliza seus pensamentos e suas ações para produzir algo concreto, ela passa a compartilhar com o mundo sua essência, disseminando conhecimento e sabedoria, ou disseminando futilidade e desinformação, dependendo da qualidade daquilo que ela compartilha. E a percepção que as outras pessoas têm sobre aquilo que ela compartilhou dependerá não apenas da qualidade do que ela exteriorizou, mas também da sensibilidade e perspicácia de quem recebe a informação. Se uma pessoa brilhante disseminar conhecimentos de um nível muito elevado entre um público muito fútil, o valor desse conhecimento não será reconhecido e ela não terá certificações, nem prêmios, nem qualquer reconhecimento, enquanto outras pessoas que estejam disseminando conhecimentos vulgares e rasos, compatíveis com o público que o recebe e que emite as certificações, essas pessoas serão aclamadas e glorificadas.

As pessoas não são premiadas ou certificadas por suas realizações serem grandiosas, mas sim por suas realizações serem percebidas como grandiosas pelos membros dos comitês responsáveis pela homologação de prêmios e certificações. Além disso, há uma série de outros vieses de caráter político, social, racial, etc., que interferem nas decisões dos membros dos comitês, tornando as certificações e os prêmios ainda mais destoantes do objetivo que deveriam ter.

Esse efeito ocorre, por exemplo, em alguns testes de Cooijmans, em que o teste não mede o QI, mas sim quão semelhante é o QI da pessoa examinada em comparação ao QI do Cooijmans. Se a pessoa tiver o mesmo QI de Cooijmans, ela terá escore máximo. Se ela tiver QI muito maior ou muito menor que o QI de Cooijmans, o escore dela será baixo. Na questão sobre testes de QI, comento mais detalhadamente esse problema.

Citarei alguns poucos exemplos marcantes, alguns bastante conhecidos, mas vale a pena rememorá-los. Creio que um dos mais trágicos e marcantes seja o de Galileu, que em vez de ser premiado por suas notáveis contribuições à compreensão do Universo, ele foi severamente punido. Aliás, sua filha Celeste acabou sendo punida em lugar dele. Nos tempos mais recentes, um dos casos que acho muito tristes é o de George Zweig, que desenvolveu sua Teoria dos Ases na mesma época em que Murray Gell-Mann desenvolveu a Teoria dos Quarks. Ambas eram essencialmente iguais, entretanto a revista para a qual Zweig enviou seu artigo se recusou a publicá-lo, enquanto o artigo de Gell-Mann lhe rendeu o prêmio Nobel de Física. Há pelo menos 45 casos conhecidos de prêmios Nobel polêmicos, de pessoas que receberam sem merecer ou mereciam, mas não receberam. O prêmio mais respeitado do mundo está profanado por dezenas de injustiças, talvez centenas, se considerar as que não chegaram a ser descobertas. Inclusive Einstein é uma das maiores vítimas, já que merecia ter recebido 5 prêmios Nobel, entretanto recebeu apenas 1, por motivos raciais, xenofóbicos, nazistas etc.

Creio que agora eu possa responder a essa questão, dividindo-a em duas partes:

  1. Prêmios e certificações.
  2. Méritos até o momento não reconhecidos.

Tenho poucos certificados. Quando eu era jovem, tinha o hábito de colocar troféus e medalhas de Xadrez, Artes Marciais, Educação Artística etc. numa estante, mas numa das mudanças de endereço, um de meus troféus quebrou. Inicialmente fiquei triste, porque eram importantes para mim. Mas ao refletir melhor sobre o “desastre”, percebi que na verdade não tinham nenhuma importância. O que realmente importava eram os méritos que me levaram à conquista daqueles prêmios, bem como alguns méritos que não chegaram a ser premiados. Havia também casos nos quais eu não tinha mérito algum, mas havia sido premiado devido a alguma fatalidade da sorte. Isso não significa que eu não seja uma pessoa vaidosa. Eu sou, mas aprendi que na maioria das vezes não se recebe nada ou quase nada por algo valoroso, enquanto outras vezes se recebe mais do que o justo por algo de pouco valor ou até mesmo sem valor. Infelizmente o mundo recompensa muito mais as aparências do que a essência.

Um de meus poucos certificados é o de detentor do recorde mundial de mate anunciado mais longo em simultâneas de Xadrez às cegas, registrado no Guinness Book de 1998. Talvez algumas pessoas não estejam familiarizadas com o significado de “Xadrez às cegas” e “mate anunciado”. Esse vídeo ajuda a entender a dinâmica de uma simultânea às cegas: https://youtu.be/LUo89Cl9FPY. É um vídeo antigo e de baixa qualidade, mas para exemplificar o mecanismo do evento, creio que seja apropriado.

Farei uma descrição resumida: numa simultânea, uma pessoa (simultanista) joga ao mesmo tempo contra vários oponentes (simultaneados), cada um dos quais com seu próprio tabuleiro. É diferente de um jogo em consulta, em que vários jogadores podem se consultar mutuamente num único tabuleiro e decidem sobre o melhor lance por votação. Numa simultânea, cada simultaneado tem seu próprio tabuleiro e cada partida segue seu próprio rumo.

Nesse caso, como se trata de uma simultânea às cegas, o simultanista não tem acesso visual a nenhum dos tabuleiros, nem às peças, nem às súmulas, nem a qualquer tipo de registro dos lances ou das posições. Em nenhum momento o simultanista pode olhar para nenhum dos tabuleiros, nem solicitar qualquer tipo de informação que o ajude a se lembrar das posições das peças, nem de qualquer peça específica, nem que o ajude a se lembrar da ordem dos lances, nem qualquer outro tipo de informação que possa de algum modo auxiliar sobre as partidas. A posição de cada uma das peças em cada um dos tabuleiros fica registrada exclusivamente na memória do simultanista e essas posições são atualizadas mentalmente a cada lance. Além disso, a cada lance o simultanista precisa fazer os cálculos das variantes e sub-variantes necessários para tomar suas decisões sobre o lance a ser executado, tomando cuidado para não confundir as lembranças das variantes calculadas com as lembranças das variantes efetivamente jogadas, entre outros cuidados.

O jogo se desenvolve da seguinte forma: o simultanista permanece de costas para os tabuleiros e comunica seus lances a um assistente (speaker), que executa cada lance do simultanista no respectivo tabuleiro. Em seguida, o simultaneado daquele tabuleiro executa sua resposta sobre o tabuleiro e o speaker comunica verbalmente ao simultanista qual foi o lance executado por aquele simultaneado. Então o speaker passa ao tabuleiro seguinte, onde novamente o simultanista declara seu lance e este é executado nesse tabuleiro pelo speaker etc.

Há versões mais “fáceis” (ou menos difíceis), nas quais o jogador às cegas pode ter acesso a uma lista com todos os lances anotados, como nos torneios de Melody Amber, em que, além de serem jogos individuais, em vez de simultâneos, os competidores podem também visualizar um tabuleiro vazio, o que facilita os cálculos e reduz os riscos de se esquecer da posição de alguma peça. Mas nas regras mais rigorosas, como no meu recorde de 1997 que foi registrado no Guinness, não era permitido ter acesso ao histórico dos lances, nem ver um tabuleiro vazio, nem qualquer outro tipo de auxílio similar. É equivalente a estar todo o tempo com os olhos vendados, do início ao fim do evento.

Esse recorde estabelecido em 1997 foi numa simultânea às cegas a 9 tabuleiros, num dos quais anunciei mate em 12 lances. O rating médio de meus oponentes foi estimado em cerca de 1400. Obtive 7 vitórias, 1 empate e 1 derrota.

Os recordistas anteriores eram: Joseph Henry Blackburne (mate em 8 lances numa simultânea às cegas a 10 tabuleiros, no ano 1877), Samuel Rosenthal (mate em 8 lances numa simultânea às cegas a 4 tabuleiros, no ano 1885) e Garry Kasparov (mate em 8 lances numa simultânea às cegas a 8 tabuleiros, no ano 1985). Houve também um evento em 1899, no qual Harry Nelson Pillsbury anunciou mate em 8 numa simultânea às cegas a 10 tabuleiros, mas houve erro de contagem. Seguindo a sequência ditada por Pillsbury, o mate se produzia em 7 lances.

No caso de Kasparov, há alguns detalhes que precisam ser esclarecidos: ele jogou uma simultânea às cegas contra os 8 melhores computadores da época, inclusive o campeão mundial Mephisto Amsterdam 68000 RISC 12MHz. O rating médio dessas máquinas era cerca de 1500 e os melhores chegavam a 1800. O melhor computador do mundo em 1985 era justamente o Mephisto Amsterdam, cujo rating divulgado pelo fabricante era 2265, mas posteriormente foi medido pela SSDF em 1827 (com base em 1020 partidas). Na partida contra Mephisto Amsterdam, Kasparov jogou uma bela combinação com sequência de mate em 8 lances, mas não há registro sobre ele ter anunciado o mate. De qualquer modo, como ele sacrificou uma Torre e duas peças no início da combinação, está claro que ele calculou corretamente a sequência inteira.

Em 2005, a rede Globo fez uma reportagem para o programa “Fantástico” celebrando os 100 anos dos testes de QI, e fui indicado como a pessoa com QI mais alto do Brasil, no nível de 1 em 200 milhões. Esse é um exemplo de “reconhecimento” que eu não tenho certeza se foi corretamente atribuído. Na pergunta sobre QI, comento esse assunto com mais detalhes.

Recentemente, o amigo Domagoj Kutle me honrou com um amável convite para publicar em sua excelente revista DEUS VULT, e solicitou que eu enviasse também uma pequena biografia. Minha namorada Tamara gentilmente me ajudou a elaborar esse material, incluindo algumas de minhas realizações. Creio que isso se encaixaria aqui, por isso vou colar o texto:

Melao mini-bio, by Tamara Rodrigues:

Hindemburg Melao Jr. was born in Brazil, in a family with few resources, and only attended school until the 11th grade, having learned almost completely as self-taught.

In 1998 he was registered in the Guinness Book as the holder of the world record for longest announced checkmate in blindfold simultaneous chess games. (video)

Between 2006 and 2010 he developed an artificial intelligence system to trade in the Financial Market; in 2015, his friend and partner Joao A.L.J. incorporated a hedge fund to use this system and started to be registered in fund rankings (BarclayHedge, IASG and Preqin), winning 21 international high performance awards.

In 2007, Melao solved a problem that had been unsatisfactorily solved for 22 years, by creating “Melao index”, an index to measure performance adjusted at risk that was more accurate, more predictive and conceptually better founded than the traditional indexes of William Sharpe (Nobel prize 1990) and Franco Modigliani (Nobel 1985). (video)

In 2003 he solved a 160+ year old problem by proposing a new formula for calculating BMI, superior to the traditional one and superior to the formula proposed in 2013 by Nick Trefethen, Chief of the Dept. of Numerical Analysis at the University of Oxford, Leslie Fox Prize(1985), FRS prize, (2005), IMA Gold Medal (2010). Trefethen’s 2013 formula is an incomplete version of Melao’s 2003 formula.

In 2000 Melao developed the first method for standardization of intelligence tests that produces scores in scale of ratio and in 2003 he applied this method in the Sigma Test norm (he also calculated new norms for Mega and Titan tests using the same method), thereby solving a problem of Psychometry that exists more than 90 years ago and was pointed by Thurstone and Gardner as a central question of Psychometry more than 45 years ago.

In 2002 Melao found the best solution to a problem that has existed for more than 520 years and had been attacked for more than 65 years, the Shannon Number, which was only matched in 2014 by Stefan Steinerberger, professor of mathematics at Yale University.

In 2015 Melao showed that the method recommended by the Nobel Prize in Economics Harry Markowitz, for portfolio optimization, has some flaws, and proposed some improvements that make this method more efficient and safer.

In 2021 Melao pointed out flaws in the recommendation of the 2003 Nobel Prize in Economics, Clive Granger, regarding the use of the concept of cointegration, and presented a more adequate solution to the same problem.

In 2022, Melao solved a problem that had been open for 16 years, in which he established a method for calculating chess ratings based on the quality of the moves. Also presented an improved version of the Elo system, applying both methods to calculate the ratings of more than 100,000 players between years 1475 and 2021, the results were published in a book, along with the description of the two methods.

At 9 years old Melao deduced one of the fundamentals of Fractal Geometry and at 13 he developed a method to calculate logarithms. At age 19 he developed a method for calculating factorials of decimal numbers without using Calculus. (more details)

Also at the age of 19 (1991) he developed an invisibility machine project, which in 1993 he inscribe in a contest of ficction Literature (although the project is consistent with Scientific Method), but did not win. In 2003 Susumu Tachi, Emeritus Professor at the University of Tokyo and guest Professor at MIT, created (independently) a simplified version of this project and built a prototype.

In 2020 Hindemburg presented a study showing that Jupiter’s Great Red Spot cannot be 350+ years old, as was believed. The correct age is around 144 years old. (interview)

In 2000 Melao had a chess theoretical novelty elected one of the 10 most important in the world by the Sahovski Informator jury, the world champion Anand was one of the judges and Anand’s vote was that this novelty should be the 8th most important.

In 2004 Baran Yonter, founder of Pars Society (IQ>180, sd=16), estimated that Melao IQ should be above 200 (sd=16).

In 2005 the production of the program “Fantástico”, from Globo (second-largest commercial TV network in the world), made a special report on intelligence, celebrating the centenary of the creation of IQ tests, and Melao was nominated as the person with the highest IQ in Brazil, with a rarity level of 1 in 200 million. (video1, video2)

In 2009 Melao was nominated by Albert Frank to participate in a John Hallenborg project with people whose IQ is at the rarity level above 1 in 1 million.

In 2000 Melao updated and extended his “Alpha Tests” that he had created in 1991, added new questions, and created the Sigma Test.

In 2022 he extended the Sigma Test by creating the extended version.

Melao is author of more than 1700 articles on Science, Statistics, Psychometrics, Econometrics, Chess, Mathematics, Astronomy, Physics, Cognitive Science, Ethics, Philosophy of Science, History of Science, Education etc.

Detailed bio of Melao (documents, videos, interviews, articles, reports etc.) at: https://www.sigmasociety.net/hm

Embora eu tenha praticado Artes Marciais por vários anos (talvez ~11 anos se somar todos os períodos ativos), não cheguei a obter nenhuma certificação, porque o tempo foi distribuído entre muitas modalidades diferentes e não cheguei à faixa preta em nenhuma delas. Mas cheguei a alcançar um nível técnico razoável. Para armas curtas, talvez eu esteja no percentil 99,9% e no caso específico de nunchaku, talvez 99,999%. Esse é um vídeo de 2016, eu já estava meio velho e enferrujado https://youtu.be/jCw–5H34x4. No mesmo canal há também vídeos com outras armas (espada, tonfa, kama, sam-tien-kuan etc.).

Em 2020 fui convidado para um grupo dos 26 melhores astrofotógrafos planetários do Brasil. Embora não haja certificado para isso, fiquei muito feliz porque é um de meus hobbies favoritos. Eu gostaria de aproveitar essa oportunidade para agradecer ao amigo Vinícius Martins, que me ensinou quase tudo que sei sobre processamento de imagens planetárias, creio que em pouco tempo ele será um dos 5 melhores astrofotógrafos do mundo, ele combina 3 elementos fundamentais para isso: um talento extraordinário, um amor imenso por essa atividade e um profundo conhecimento que se amplia e se atualiza constantemente.

Entre as certificações que não possuo, uma das mais interessantes é a de CFA, conferida a gestores de investimentos. É interessante porque entre 2006 e 2010 desenvolvi um sistema de inteligência artificial para operar no Mercado Financeiro que entre 2015 e 2020, quando foi utilizado por um fundo europeu, conquistou 21 prêmios internacionais de alta performance nos rankings da Barclay’s Hedge, Preqin e IASG, sendo também o segundo melhor sistema de investimentos do mundo entre 2011 e 2016. Entretanto, eu fui proibido pela CVM de prestar serviços de gestão porque não possuo o certificado CFA. Em 2014, foi realizado um abaixo-assinado para pleitear que a CVM (entidade reguladora do Mercado de Capitais no Brasil) emitisse para mim um certificado em caráter extraordinário. A reivindicação se apoiava na redação da Instrução 306 da CVM e no fato de que meu sistema tinha acumulado mais que o dobro do lucro do fundo que ocupava o primeiro lugar (à frente de 282 outros fundos, todos administrados por gestores certificados) no ranking da InfoMoney, maior ranking de fundos do Brasil. Entre as pessoas que assinaram a petição em meu favor, houve vários professores universitários, vários gestores profissionais e vários membros de sociedades de alto QI, inclusive Dany Provost de Giga Society. Entretanto, a reivindicação não foi aceita e continuo não possuindo esse certificado. Aliás, os dois gestores mais famosos do mundo, Warren Buffett e George Soros, também não possuem certificado de gestor, então estou em boa companhia. Buffett resolveu esse problema incorporando uma empresa que compra outras empresas, em vez de administrar um fundo. Soros resolveu o problema colocando seu amigo Jimmy Rogers como gestos (Jimmy possuía a certificação necessária), eu resolvi o problema comercializando licenças de uso de meu sistema, com um limite de volume de aplicação para cada licença e um período de renovação.

Entre as certificações que não possuo, posso incluir também CNH, embora eu dirija fora da Lei (sou praticamente um gângster). Eu deixei de ir à escola no 5º ano, depois eu retornei algumas vezes, por pressão de meus pais. Eu voltava, continuava matriculado alguns meses, esgotava minha paciência, parava novamente, meus pais me pressionavam a voltar, eu novamente voltava etc. Cheguei a concluir o ensino médio (11º ano) e entrei na faculdade de Física, mas não gostei do curso e parei definitivamente depois de 2 meses. Na primeira semana de aula, eu revisei o livro de Física I e apontei mais de 200 erros, enviei meus comentários ao autor, com uma nota introdutória tentando ser diplomático, para que ele não se sentisse ofendido, mas ele nunca respondeu. Também apontei dois erros conceituais graves nos métodos utilizados no laboratório de Física, que deveriam impactar nos resultados dos experimentos; um deles, sobre as bolas de papel amassado, é o mesmo “experimento” realizado no Departamento de Matemática da Universidade de Yale, onde também cometem o mesmo erro. Nesse caso, o Prof. Dr. Paulo Reginaldo Pascholati teve uma conduta honrada, recebeu com humildade minhas críticas, fez alguns experimentos para investigar se o erro que eu indicava era procedente, constatou que eu tinha razão e, na aula seguinte, ele assumiu publicamente o erro. Achei a conduta dele exemplar, nesse aspecto, entretanto a apostila não foi corrigida e continuaram a fazer o experimento incorretamente.

Enfim, decidi que universidade era perda de tempo e seria mais produtivo estudar por conta própria, mas não é tão simples assim, e essa decisão se mostrou questionável em algumas ocasiões. O distanciamento da carreira acadêmica tem alguns aspectos positivos, outros negativos. Um dos aspectos positivos é que posso selecionar minha própria grade curricular, seguir meu próprio ritmo e me aprofundar o quanto quiser em cada tópico. Um dos aspectos negativos é que se torna mais difícil ter acesso a bibliografia satisfatória e mais difícil ainda publicar em periódicos indexados. Com isso, praticamente coloquei a mim mesmo numa situação de ostracismo.

Portanto certificados são úteis, mas é importante compreender as limitações e as distorções que podem apresentar, para não correr o risco de tratá-las de forma burocrática, a ponto de serem colocados acima da real capacidade verificada empiricamente de forma contínua. Certificados refletem as opiniões de pessoas ou de instituições que muitas vezes não estão suficientemente qualificadas para fazer avaliações corretas sobre os méritos e para decidir com imparcialidade. No exemplo do CFA, as certificações são literalmente distribuídas com base em critérios excessivamente condescendentes, que nem de longe são suficientes para selecionar as pessoas qualificadas ao exercício da função de gestor, por isso mais de 95% dos gestores certificados geram prejuízos a seus clientes. Talvez esse efeito seja mais notável no Mercado de Capitais do que em qualquer outra atividade, mas também ocorre frequentemente em Jornalismo, Publicidade, Administração etc., em que algumas pessoas sem formação nessas disciplinas eventualmente podem ser mais qualificadas do que pessoas certificadas, mas para proteger os menos competentes, são criadas leis que impedem as empresas de contratar os mais competentes, usando certificados como instrumento de discriminação e de apologia à mediocridade.

Escrevi uma versão extensa dessa resposta, na qual discuto algumas falhas no sistema educacional no Brasil e no mundo, justificando porque me afastei da vida acadêmica. Também aponto e analiso os erros cometidos por Richard Lynn em seu estudo sobre os QIs em diferentes países e explico porquê não seria correto tentar justificada o problema educacional no Brasil com base no suposto baixo QI médio da população, bem como reviso a estimativa para o QI médio de alguns países, inclusive Guiné Equatorial, Israel e Brasil. O texto ficou com 10 páginas A4, por isso achei melhor colocar como um apêndice.

Jacobsen: Qual é o propósito dos testes de inteligência para você?

Melão Jr.: o atributo mais importante dos seres vivos é a inteligência. Sem inteligência não existiria Ética, Leis, Ciência ou Arte. Para delegar corretamente as tarefas mais importantes às pessoas mais qualificadas, é necessário identificar e ranquear corretamente as pessoas de acordo com as habilidades de cada uma. Por isso medir corretamente a inteligência e utilizar os resultados como critério para atribuir cargos e tarefas, conforme o nível de competência, é extremamente importante, mas infelizmente não é o que acontece. Há dois grandes problemas:

  1. O primeiro é que o mundo é dominado pelo nepotismo;
  2. O segundo é que não existem testes de inteligência apropriados para medir corretamente nos níveis mais altos.

No final do século XIX, os primeiros testes de Galton e Cattell não conseguiam medir satisfatoriamente a inteligência, mas foi uma tentativa interessante. A hipótese de que a velocidade dos reflexos, a acuidade visual, a acuidade auditiva etc. poderiam ser indicativos relevantes do nível intelectual se mostrou inadequada. Em 1904, Binet e Otis conseguiram resolver esse problema, utilizando questões que exigiam a o uso combinado de várias habilidades cognitivas – em vez de tentar medir aptidões primárias, como fez Galton –, mas os testes de Binet só mediam corretamente até cerca de 140. As tentativas de Terman, em 1921, de utilizar os testes de Binet para selecionar futuros gênios falharam. Entre as 1528 crianças selecionadas com QI acima de 135 (mais de 70 com QI acima de 177), nenhuma ganhou um Nobel nem qualquer prêmio similar, enquanto duas das crianças não selecionadas ganharam prêmios Nobel. O teste funcionava muito bem até cerca de 130, as crianças selecionadas publicaram mais livros, mais artigos, tiveram maior renda média do que as crianças do outro grupo, porém nos níveis mais elevados, o teste falhou e deixou escapar algumas das crianças mais brilhantes. Os resultados desse estudo tiveram um efeito extremamente deletério, prejudicando a credibilidade nos testes de QI aos olhos do público em geral e aos olhos de muitos expoentes intelectuais de áreas científicas, tecnológicas, culturais e educacionais, por isso seria importante esclarecer os limites de até que ponto esses testes podem medir corretamente, para que não se crie expectativas irreais e para que não sejam aplicados incorretamente fora de desses limites.

Em 1973, Kevin Langdon criou o LAIT (Langdon Adult Intelligence Test) e com isso conseguiu elevar o nível de dificuldade até perto de 170 e a validade de constructo até 150; em 1985, Ronald Hoeflin deu mais um passo importante com o Mega Test, elevando o nível de dificuldade até cerca de pIQ 190 e validade de constructo até 170, e essas contribuições ampliaram os horizontes de aplicação dos testes de inteligência, que antes funcionavam bem até o nível aproximada de 1 em 100, enquanto os novos testes passaram a funcionar até 1 em 100.000. Por outro lado, a partir dos anos 1990, começaram a surgir alguns testes de fantasia com tetos nominais que chegavam a 250, embora o teto real de dificuldade não chegasse a 180 e o teto de validade de construto fique em torno de 150, como o ISIS Test de Paul Cooijmans. Alguns desses testes de fantasia continuam surgindo até hoje e isso agrava o preconceito nutrido por muitas pessoas contra os testes de QI, porque se a pessoa tem um pensamento crítico refinado e uma atitude cética, ela percebe que há inconsistências em resultados como o de Feynman (123) e Rosner (193, 196, 198 etc.). Ambos são muito inteligentes, e os problemas que Feynman resolveu são mais difíceis que os problemas que Rosner resolveu, o que poderia ser interpretado como indicativo de que Feynman fosse mais inteligente, então como é possível que um sistema padronizado sério de avaliação atribua 190+ para Rosner e 123 para Feynman? Alguma coisa obviamente não está certa nisso, e as pessoas geralmente não identificam exatamente onde está o erro, por isso concluem, de forma generalizada, que todos os testes de QI não funcionam, ou sequer elas sabem que existe mais de um tipo de teste de QI. Por isso o esclarecimento sobre qual é o intervalo no qual cada tipo de teste funciona contribui para combater esse tipo de preconceito. Se o QI verdadeiro de Feynman, com base na dificuldade, complexidade e profundidade dos problemas que ele resolveu sobre eletrodinâmica quântica, superfluidos etc. fosse colocado na mesma escala em que é representado o QI de Rosner, o QI correto de Feynman estaria perto de 235. E para explicar esse número acima de 200, teria antes que mostrar que a distribuição dos escores não é gaussiana etc. etc. Então aquela aparente inconsistência inicial desapareceria e tudo ficaria mais claro e mais lógico. O mesmo acontece para o QI fictício de Einstein de 160, cujo valor correto, se colocado na mesma escala dos escores medidos pelos testes, seria perto de 250.

Em 2000, o Sigma Test trouxe soluções aos 3 problemas citados no texto introdutório, tendo como foco principal a validade de constructo, utilizando questões baseadas em problemas do mundo real que exigem uma combinação de pensamento convergente e divergente em diferentes níveis de dificuldade, complexidade e profundidade, compatíveis com os níveis de QI a serem medidos. Mais recentemente, o Sigma Test Extended elevou o teto de dificuldade até cerca de pIQ 225 e de validade de constructo até cerca de 210. Entretanto, numa população com 7,9 bilhões, a pessoa adulta mais inteligente do mundo deve ter rIQ em torno de 201, equivalente a cerca de pIQ 245, portanto bastante fora dos limites que o STE pode medir. Apesar disso, para algumas das 100 ou 200 pessoas mais inteligentes vivas, o STE poderia fornecer medidas fidedignas da inteligência real, com boa validade de constructo nesse patamar, além de oferecer um desafio intelectual estimulante. Isso consertaria algumas lendas urbanas disseminadas em várias fontes, como a de que o QI médio dos ganhadores do Nobel em Ciência é “apenas” 154. Com o uso de um teste adequadamente padronizado, com nível de dificuldade apropriado e boa validade de constructo, o QI médio dos ganhadores do Nobel em Ciência deve ficar entre 170 e 190. Com o uso de testes apropriados é possível reposicionar corretamente os escores, tanto para cima quanto para baixo. Isso também venceria alguns preconceitos contra os testes de QI, porque uma das razões para rejeição se deve justamente aos resultados bizarros para Feynman (123), Fischer (123*), Kasparov (123, 135), Shockley (<135), Alvarez (<135), irmã de Feynman (124) etc., porque isso tira a credibilidade dos testes, já que é muito mais provável que esses escores estejam errados do que essas pessoas terem QI abaixo do nível de 1 em mil, quando na verdade devem estar acima de 1 em 1 milhão (e Feynman perto de 1 em 1 bilhão). Quando podemos mostrar que os testes são capazes de medir corretamente também nos níveis muito altos e fornecer resultados realistas, consistentes com as realizações dessas pessoas em problemas do mundo real, consegue-se restaurar a credibilidade para testes de inteligência como instrumentos sérios e confiáveis, capazes de desempenhar uma das funções mais importantes que é justamente fazer prognósticos precoces de genialidade. [* Embora muitas fontes mencionem o QI 187, 181 ou 180 para Fischer, seus laudos de 1958 mostram um escore 123]

Assim, embora não haja testes capazes de medir corretamente no nível necessário para apontar a pessoa mais inteligente viva, ou ranquear as 10 mais inteligentes, houve um progresso substancial desde os primeiros testes de Binet, e se Terman estivesse vivo hoje e desenvolvesse o mesmo estudo de 1921, mas começando em 2000, e se ele utilizasse o STE em vez do SB, muito provavelmente as crianças mais inteligentes estariam todas (ou quase todas) selecionadas em seu grupo, e os resultados subsequentes teriam sido confirmatórios inclusive nos níveis mais altos, corroborando a tese que ele defendia, de que é possível prever precocemente a genialidade, mas não com os testes que existiam naquela época. A tese, em si, estava correta, assim como o helicóptero de Leonardo Da Vinci, mas a tecnologia ainda precisava avançar um pouco mais para que a tese dispusesse dos subsídios necessários para ser testada adequadamente.

Jacobsen: Quando a alta inteligência foi descoberta para você?

Melão Jr.: Acho difícil determinar isso com precisão. A primeira vez que fui examinado em clínica, tinha 3 anos, mas aos 6 meses de idade eu conversava com razoável fluência, então havia algumas evidências mais precoces.

Jacobsen: Quando você pensa nas maneiras pelas quais os gênios do passado foram ridicularizados, vilipendiados e condenados, se não mortos, ou elogiados, lisonjeados, plagiados e reverenciados, o que parece ser a razão para as reações extremas e o tratamento de gênios? Muitos vivos hoje parecem tímidos diante das câmeras – muitos, nem todos.

Melão Jr.: não creio que seja um problema do passado. Continua presente em muitas culturas primitivas, como no Brasil e em vários países da África. A grande maioria da população adota uma postura de hostilidade, inveja e boicote não apenas contra gênios, mas contra qualquer pessoa que possa estar obtendo algum tipo de sucesso. Recentemente minha namorada me mostrou um vídeo de Ozires Silva, que foi Ministro da Infraestrutura e presidente da Petrobrás. Ele comenta que durante um jantar no qual estavam presentes alguns membros do comitê do Nobel (link par ao vídeo: https://youtu.be/m3u-E5XdzZ4) ele perguntou por que eles achavam que o Brasil não tinha nenhum ganhador do Nobel, já que vários países latino-americanos com menor população e menor PIB tinham inclusive mais de um Nobel. Um dos membros do comitê comentou “vocês, brasileiros, são destruidores de heróis”. Infelizmente isso é um fato que continua presente em nosso cotidiano.

Na época que eu conheci as comunidades de alto QI, 1999, alguns nomes famosos eram William James Sidis, Marilyn vos Savant, Chris Langan, Rick Rosner, Grady Towers etc. Langan era segurança numa boate, Rosner era modelo nudista e também trabalhou algum tempo como segurança, Grady Towers era segurança em um parque e teve uma morte trágica e prematura em 2000. Sidis passou suas últimas décadas de vida em subempregos e colecionando placas de carro. Marilyn foi colunista de uma revista e conseguiu um padrão de vida razoável com isso, bem como um bom prestígio e reconhecimento fora das comunidades de alto QI, e também muitos invejosos odiosos. Com exceção de Marilyn, as outras pessoas que citei ganhavam um salário mínimo e ainda passavam parte do tempo sem emprego, enquanto muitas pessoas são contratadas para ocupar cargos que elas nem sequer estão qualificadas, ganhando pequenas fortunas, além de prestígio e reconhecimento.

Essa situação é muito triste. Embora Langan não fosse o homem mais inteligente das Américas, como ele reivindicava em 2000, ou da história do mundo, como ele começou a reivindicar algum tempo depois, ele é indiscutivelmente uma pessoa muito mais inteligente e mais competente do que 99% dos Ph.Ds. em qualquer área e mais do que 99,9% dos CEOs das empresas. Ele talvez não tivesse uma cultura tão vasta e os conhecimentos especializados necessários para resolver grandes problemas científicos, mas certamente ele daria melhores soluções administrativas e políticas do que qualquer presidente que os EUA já tiveram. Eu não sei se ele seria o melhor presidente, porque ser um excelente presidente não se resume a resolver problemas. Ele precisaria também ter sensibilidade, empatia, bondade, honestidade e outros atributos. Mas geralmente muitas pessoas têm esses atributos no nível necessário. O que normalmente falta a elas é exatamente a inteligência. Eu não estou dizendo que Langan ou Rosner deveriam ser presidentes. Mas, ponderando sobre pontos positivos e negativos, eu apostaria neles como presidentes melhores que a média dos presidentes recentes.

A perseguição e a opressão algumas vezes podem acontecer de maneira silenciosa, e isso costuma ser até pior, porque é mais difícil de detectar e combater. Como é possível que uma pessoa com o potencial intelectual de Langan não tenha sido descoberto por uma grande empresa que o contratasse pagando um salário milionário para que ele resolvesse os problemas internos de modo a gerar mais lucro para a empresa do que outras pessoas menos competentes trabalhando na mesma função? Há erros grotescos nisso. A grande maioria das empresas está contaminada por multidões de incompetentes e trapaceiros, que em vez de contratar e promover com base nos méritos, fazem quase exatamente o contrário, porque se sentem ameaçados por quem é mais competente do que eles. Isso é um completo desastre não só para as empresas nas quais eles trabalham, mas para toda a harmonia da civilização. Na Noruega, na Suécia, na Holanda, na Finlândia, na Suíça, na Dinamarca etc. esses problemas são muito raros, mas no brasil isso é uma constante que afunda o país. Nos EUA talvez o problema não seja tão grave quanto é no brasil, mas quando olhamos para os casos de Langan e Rosner, fica claro que há falhas graves na atuação dos headhunters, deixando de contratar algumas das pessoas mais capacitadas do país, que passaram a maior parte da vida em atividades subprofissionais. Eu citei os exemplos de Langan e Rosner, mas o mesmo vale para um grande número de pessoas com QI muito acima da média, que estão trabalhando em atividades incompatíveis, com rendimentos muito abaixo do que merecem, produzindo menos do que deveriam, enquanto pessoas muito menos capacitadas estão em cargos elevados, cometendo erros absurdos e afundando empresas ou até mesmo afundando nações inteiras. Minha namorada é engenheira ambiental e excepcionalmente inteligente, ela trabalhou numa empresa de grande porte onde ela resolvia problemas que economizavam mensalmente dezenas de milhares de dólares cortando desperdício, além de contribuir para reduzir a poluição. Uma das soluções envolvendo a substituição de um duto gerou uma economia de alguns milhões. Se ela fosse colocada num cargo mais elevado, no qual a atuação dela tivesse maior alcance, poderia poupar dezenas ou centenas de milhões para empresa. Entretanto, ela foi convidada para participar de um esquema de corrupção, ela se recusou, a pessoa que fez o convite ficou com receio de que ela os denunciasse e a demitiu.

Em “A República”, Platão comentava sobre a importância de que os reis fossem filósofos e os filósofos fossem reis. Isso me parece o mais natural, substituindo “filósofos” por “competentes” o que geralmente é quase sinônimo de “inteligentes”. E substituindo “reis” por um significado moderno equivalente, que pode ser CEO de grandes empresas, prefeitos, governadores e presidentes. Nos EUA há vários mecanismos para descobrir e orientar crianças e jovens talentosos, há vários programas especializados. De acordo com Eunice Maria Lima Soriano de Alencar, nos anos 1970 havia mais de 1200 programas educacionais para crianças superdotadas nos EUA. Como é possível que esses programas tenham “deixado escapar” Langan e Rosner? Como uma entidade respeitada como instituto Hollingworth não os descobriu? Não é possível que eles não tenham se destacado na escola. No brasil eu acharia normal isso, o brasil deixa quase todos os grandes talentos escorrerem pelo ralo. Mas nos EUA acho surpreendente que isso tenha acontecido. Há registros de que Langan teve escore perfeito no SAT e recebeu bolsas de estudo em duas universidades, mas parece que ele perdeu a bolsa porque chegou atrasado um dia, porque seu carro quebrou. Isso é bastante ridículo. Mesmo que ele faltasse em todas as aulas, provavelmente ele aprenderia mais e melhor do que 99% dos colegas que estivessem presentes em todas as aulas. As universidades não concederam bolsas como reconhecimento pela genialidade dele, mas como uma “esmola”, com condições restritivas de retirar a esmola se ele não cumprisse determinados critérios.

Esse desperdício de grandes talentos é um dos principais motivos que leva um país à ruína. A China está alcançando e superando os EUA em grande parte porque a China tem investido mais seriamente e mais pesadamente em educação especial de crianças talentosas, enquanto os EUA estão cometendo erros grosseiros como esse, deixando que grandes mentes como a de Langan, Rosner, Towers sejam desperdiçadas em trabalhos como segurança de boate ou de parque, enquanto pessoas menos capacitadas lideram grandes empresas, governam cidades e estados.

O nepotismo não é um fenômeno exclusivamente familiar. É muito mais abrangente, levando à colocação de pessoas subqualificadas em cargos que deveriam ser ocupados por outras com mais méritos. Não há otimização na delegação de cargos, responsabilidades, tarefas, incentivos, prêmios etc. E essa ausência de otimização é obviamente penalizada. Concorrentes que otimizam melhor isso, assumem a liderança.

No Brasil a situação é muito mais grave, porque não existem tais programas. Houve algumas poucas iniciativas isoladas, que chegavam a atender poucas dezenas de crianças, mas que não duraram muito tempo.

Os testes de inteligência são extremamente importantes para serem utilizados nesses processos de descobertas de talentos. Ainda que os testes apresentem várias falhas, é melhor que sejam aplicados na medida do possível, com os erros e remendos, do que se deixassem de ser aplicados e essa calamidade se perpetuasse. Algumas das gigantes de tecnologia criam seus próprios testes para selecionar seus colaboradores, geralmente esses testes não são tão bons quanto os hrIQts, mas pelo menos eles demonstram compreender a necessidade disso. Embora estejam remendando mal o problema, pelo menos estão tentando fazer algo para identificar jovens talentos e engajá-los em projetos relevantes, nos quais possam contribuir para o desenvolvimento da Ciência, da Tecnologia e para o bem comum, portanto essas empresas agem melhor que o governo em relação a isso.

Jacobsen: Quem parece ser os maiores gênios da história para você?

Melão Jr.: Leonardo, Newton, Aristóteles, Gauss, Ramanujan, Arquimedes, Euler e Einstein.

É difícil julgar os casos de Hawking, Galois, Faraday, Al-Hazen e outros, porque Hawking teve que enfrentar dificuldades extremas, é difícil saber qual teria sido a magnitude de seu legado se ele não tivesse adoecido. É possível que Hawking seja uma das 5 ou 10 pessoas mais inteligentes da História, embora sua obra efetiva não seja uma das 100 mais expressivas, por não ser uma representação justa de seu potencial, pois ele infelizmente não teve a oportunidade de “competir” em condições de igualdade com outros grandes gênios. Galois nasceu numa condição muito privilegiada culturalmente, intelectualmente e economicamente, mas infelizmente morreu muito jovem. Isso não significa que ele teria produzido muito mais se tivesse vivido até os 90 ou 100 anos, porque analisando a vida de outros grandes matemáticos e cientistas, a maioria dos trabalhos mais importantes que realizaram foi antes dos 25 anos, eventualmente entre 25 e 30. Além disso, há muitos casos de pessoas que produziram quase tudo que puderam antes dos 20, depois não apresentaram avanço nem acúmulo de produção (Paul Morphy, por exemplo, ou Arthur Rubin). Então a notável precocidade de Galois não indica necessariamente que ele teria produzido mais do que Gauss ou Euler, se tivesse vivido muito mais tempo. Mas mesmo que ele não alcançasse o nível de Euler, é provável que ele teria deixado um legado monumental. Faraday – assim como Edison, Leonardo e eu – não recebeu educação formal, o que pode ser interpretado como uma desvantagem, embora talvez não seja de fato. A vida acadêmica pode atrapalhar, em muitos casos, é difícil julgar com segurança. Para saber se pessoas com QI acima de determinado nível teriam vantagem ou desvantagem estudando como autodidatas, seria necessário realizar experimentos com vários pares de gêmeos com QI no intervalo desejado, em que um entre cada par de gêmeos seria forçado a seguir carreira a acadêmica e o outro forçado a não seguir. Haveria vários problemas para executar tal experimento, porque gêmeos são raros e gêmeos com QI acima de determinado nível talvez simplesmente não exista nenhum caso como exemplo, e o estudo exigiria uma amostra com pelo menos algumas dezenas. Outro problema é a questão ética, de forçar uma pessoa a frequentar a unidade e forçar outra a não frequentar. Isso é especialmente grave no caso de gêmeos monozigóticos, porque provavelmente ambos teriam preferências semelhantes, e algum deles teria que ser “sacrificado” nessa situação, forçado a fazer algo diferente do que gostaria.

Na época em que conheci as comunidades de alto QI, falava-se muito em Sidis como o maior gênio da história, um gênio injustiçado e incompreendido. Há um pouco de verdade nisso, mas também há muitos exageros e distorções. Sidis é um caso incomum e muito difícil de julgar, porque a história dele está misturada com lendas e fantasias. Meu primeiro contato com a “história” de Sidis foi por meio de um artigo de Grady Towers, em 1999, que depois ele modificou em 2000. Hoje sei que havia muitas informações incorretas naquele texto, mas na época eu acreditei no que estava lá, e cheguei a considerar a possibilidade de que Sidis realmente fosse a pessoa mais inteligente da História. Atualmente vejo Sidis como uma vítima de seus pais, um prodígio forçado com talvez 180 a 200 de QI, que poderia ter sido um bom pesquisador e levado uma vida agradável e produtiva, mas foi transformado numa atração circense. O QI 250-300 que durante anos foi atribuído a ele parece ter sido invenção de sua irmã, os 54 idiomas que se afirmava que ele falava foram reduzidos para 52, depois 40, depois 26 e atualmente parece que se considera que ele talvez falasse de fato 15 a 20 idiomas. A lenda sobre ele conseguir aprender 1 idioma em 1 dia parece ser simplesmente falsa. Ele não obteve um Ph.D. Cum Laude em Harvard aos 16 anos, mas sim um B.Sc., o que ainda é uma realização expressiva, mas não tanto. Cerca de 12% dos estudantes de Yale se graduam Cum Laude, Magna Cum Laude ou Summa Cum Laude. Em alguns anos (como 1988) essas porcentagens podem aumentar bastante, chegando a mais de 30%. Eu não sei as porcentagens em Harvard, mas suponho que não seja tão diferente. Então é de fato expressivo, mas não tão impressionante quanto seria esperado por alguém com supostos 250-300 de QI.

A tendência da irmã dele em exagerar quase tudo acaba aumentando o ceticismo sobre quais alegações sobre ele são reais. O fato é que ele não deixou um legado científico nem matemático que justifique a superavaliação que se costuma fazer sobre ele. As ideias dele sobre buracos negros foram precedidas em mais de 100 anos por Laplace e Michell, as ideias dele sobre Evolução já haviam sido mais bem desenvolvidas por Darwin e Wallace, aliás, a abordagem de Sidis é bem mais superficial que a de Darwin e Wallace, sendo mais semelhante à de Anaximandro e Aristóteles. Contudo, permanece a dúvida sobre o nível de produção intelectual que ele poderia ter alcançado se não tivesse se afastado da vida acadêmica, ou, mesmo afastado da vida acadêmica, mas produzindo Ciência e Matemática fora da universidade.

Em termos de precocidade, Gauss, Galois, Neumann e Pascal me parecem mais notáveis que Sidis, inclusive porque Gauss foi um prodígio natural, enquanto Sidis foi uma mistura de prodígio natural e prodígio forçado. Galois, Pascal, Neumann também foram prodígios naturais e forçados, mas não tão forçados quanto Sidis. Essa pressão a que Sidis foi submetido talvez o tenha prejudicado e provocado o desfecho que essa novela acabou tendo. Acho difícil avaliar.

Por isso se essa pergunta me tivesse sido feita em 2000, talvez eu fizesse uma análise menos crítica e mais superficial e apontasse Sidis como o maior gênio. Atualmente eu teria dúvidas inclusive se ele teria escore muito alto nos hrIQts, talvez ele chegasse a 190 em alguns testes, mas em outros não passaria de 180. No que diz respeito à produção intelectual, os registros não mostram nada tão extraordinário.

Jacobsen: O que diferencia um gênio de uma pessoa profundamente inteligente?

Melão Jr.: habitualmente o conceito de “gênio” é utilizado para indicar capacidade excepcional em diferentes áreas científicas, artísticas, esportivas, culturais etc. Nesse contexto, uma das principais diferenças seria o nível de especificidade, pois o gênio poderia indicar um talento notável em qualquer área de atuação (Música, Futebol, Ballet etc.), inclusive atividades nas quais não seja exigida inteligência em alto nível. Em contraste a isso, a pessoa profundamente inteligente teria seu talento ligado exclusivamente a atividades nas quais a notabilidade exija nível intelectual muito elevado (Física, Matemática, Literatura, Xadrez etc.).

Mas esse conceito é inadequado, em minha opinião, porque com o desenvolvimento de máquinas que superam os melhores humanos em diferentes modalidades, torna-se importante não misturar máquinas “inteligentes” com outras máquinas. Poderia parecer aceitável dizer que Usain Bolt é um gênio do atletismo, mas seria estranho dizer que um Bugatti Chiron é um gênio, embora o que o Chiron faz excepcionalmente seja o mesmo que Usain Bolt faz. Por isso é necessário determinar critérios objetivos de classificação que sejam aplicáveis igualmente a todas as entidades orgânicas e inorgânicas, sem discriminação, um critério que funcione bem e não produza classificações bizarras. Não seria razoável dizer “ah, Chiron é um carro, portanto critério não se aplica a ele”. Isso seria uma discriminação rasa e incorreta, porque em poucas décadas haverá carros capazes de conversar sobre Filosofia e demonstrar teoremas matemáticos, inclusive híbridos que sejam parte humanos e parte carros, e se um dos critérios para ser considerado genial for “não pode ser um carro”, haveria uma grave inconsistência. Um critério sério e justo precisa ser bem planejado, não pode ser um palpite ingênuo que não contempla as possíveis exceções.

Os talentos para modalidades intelectuais, quando atingem determinado nível de excelência (algo como 5 desvios padrão acima da média) podem ser considerados “gênios”, mas para atividades nas quais o nível intelectual não desempenha um papel importante (Boxe, Futebol, Atletismo etc.), creio que o termo correto deveria ser escolhido com mais cuidado, para evitar que máquinas não intelectuais sejam incorretamente classificadas como “gênios” (um carro veloz ser classificado como “gênio” por ser veloz me parece um erro etimológico, mas se este carro pudesse realizar tarefas intelectuais, a situação mudaria). Em algumas circunstâncias, as máquinas precisam ser reconhecidas como gênios, caso contrário haverá inconsistências graves na sintaxe do idioma, apoiadas exclusivamente em preconceito contra máquinas. AlphaZero ou MuZero, por exemplo, em minha opinião eles (especialmente MuZero) se encontram numa “zona cinza” de difícil avaliação. MuZero pode aprender sozinho a jogar Xadrez, Go, Shogui, jogos de Atari, e alcançar nível muito alto, superior ao dos melhores humanos do mundo em alguns desses jogos, que são reconhecidos como jogos intelectuais. Por isso uma tentativa de ajuste post facto nos critérios, com o único propósito de desqualificar MuZero como um gênio, isso me pareceria um sinal de discriminação injusta. Mesmo porque, as próximas gerações de MuZero tendem a apresentar cada vez melhor o que entendemos como “inteligência geral”, e em algum momento não haverá como evitar reconhecer que algumas máquinas também precisam ser classificadas como “inteligentes”.

A dúvida é se caberia melhor a MuZero a classificação de “idiot savant” ou de “gênio”. A meu ver, seria melhor “gênio”, porque idiot savants normalmente não são muito criativos e não se sobressaem em atividades que exijam resolver problemas sofisticados e profundos. São muito bons em memorizar e repetir, sejam cálculos mentais ou execuções de músicas, mas não conheço nenhum caso de idiot savant que tenha se destacado como enxadrista ou como cientista. Talvez fosse possível reformular os significados de gênio e de idiot savant de maneira que MuZero ficasse mais bem classificado como savant, sem comprometer a essência desses significados. Uma classificação adequada não poderia “empurrar” Bobby Fischer ou Kasparov para o grupo de savants, por exemplo. A classificação precisaria ser cuidadosa, para não criar inconsistências com o único objetivo de remover MuZero do grupo de gênios, nem apresentar outros tipos de arbitrariedades.

Em algumas outras atividades nas quais não há necessidade de um intelecto excepcional, sendo suficiente QI perto de 120 aliado a um talento excepcional para uma área específica, creio que o termo “gênio” não deveria ser aplicável. Mike Tyson ou Usain Bolt não precisam de muito mais que 120 de QI, e alguns veículos sem qualquer traço de inteligência, que não pensam, podem vencer Bolt na modalidade que ele se notabilizou, então a excelência nessa modalidade talvez não deva ser encarada como “genialidade”.

Em alguns casos é mais difícil avaliar se o termo “gênio” seria ou não aplicável. Sistemas de Inteligência Artificial como AIWA, que é especializada em compor músicas, e faz isso num nível muito alto, a meu ver, também não deveria ser classificado como “gênio”, e nesse caso os grandes compositores humanos também não deveriam ser classificados como “gênios” com base exclusivamente em seu talento para compor. Se esse talento para compor músicas estivesse acompanhado de um nível intelectual compatível com o critério intelectual de genialidade, então a classificação como “gênio” seria aplicável com base nisso. O mesmo valeria para lutadores de Boxe, agricultores ou profissionais de qualquer área, que não seriam classificados como “gênios” com base em seus talentos para suas atividades de maior destaque, mas sim por sua inteligência.

Nessa acepção, poderia haver gênios latentes e gênios efetivos. A genialidade latente estaria no potencial intelectual de produzir contribuições relevantes para ampliar os horizontes do conhecimento, revolucionar os paradigmas científicos, etc. Enquanto o gênio efetivo seria aquele que concretamente faz essas coisas. Uma pessoa profundamente inteligente, que não tenha realizado contribuições notáveis, poderia ser um gênio latente, tendo em aberto a constante oportunidade de se tornar um gênio efetivo, a partir do momento que utiliza seu potencial para o desenvolvimento científico, ou para inovações em matemática ou em algum campo importante do conhecimento.

Algumas pessoas consideram que a diferença fundamental entre um gênio e uma pessoa profundamente inteligente está na criatividade, mas a criatividade é um dos componentes da inteligência. As pessoas muitas vezes confundem o raciocínio lógico (que também é um dos componentes da inteligência) com a própria inteligência. Mas o comportamento inteligente é uma combinação ampla de muitos processos cognitivos, inclusive memória e criatividade.

A diferença entre “gênio” e “profundamente inteligente” é mais quantitativa e está associada às proporções em que estão presentes determinados atributos. A criatividade aparece no gênio como um elemento fundamental, mas não porque o gênio seja criativo e a pessoa profundamente inteligente não seja (ambos são), ou sequer porque o gênio seja sempre mais criativo (embora geralmente seja). No conjunto de atributos, considerando raciocínio lógico, criatividade, memória de trabalho, memória de longo prazo etc., o gênio possui e utiliza esse conjunto de traços latentes na resolução de problemas inéditos com maior eficiência. Como a criatividade geralmente é um dos quesitos mais importantes para isso, acaba sendo natural associar a genialidade à criatividade.

Jacobsen: A inteligência profunda é necessária para o gênio?

Melão Jr.: Para o conceito de gênio que descrevi, sim. Na resposta anterior acabei respondendo a essa.

Jacobsen: Quais foram algumas experiências de trabalho e empregos que você teve?

Melão Jr.: Desde 2006 trabalho no desenvolvimento de sistemas de inteligência artificial para operar no Mercado Financeiro. Atualmente estou interessado em resolver o problema de prolongar a vida indefinidamente, preservar a memória e a identidade em dispositivos inorgânicos que tenham uma interface adequada de comunicação com o cérebro, ressuscitar pessoas, restaurar corpos severamente danificados e outros problemas menores que são subconjuntos desses e pré-requisitos para esses.

Jacobsen: Por que seguir esse caminho de trabalho específico?

Melão Jr.: o desenvolvimento de sistemas automáticos para operar no Mercado Financeiro é uma atividade desafiadora intelectualmente e oferece uma recompensa monetária razoavelmente justa, embora a ausência de uma network empresarial imponha muitos obstáculos. O nível de dificuldade, complexidade e profundidade dos problemas que precisam ser resolvidos para obter lucros consistentes a longo prazo com operações long-short é extremamente elevado. Há algumas maneiras fáceis de ganhar 3% ao ano ou pouco mais, praticando Buy & Hold do índice ou de Blue Chips, em que o ganho é pequeno, mas muito fácil. Porém se a pessoa quiser lutar para obter lucros perto de 30% ao ano ou acima, o desafio é extraordinariamente difícil e poucas pessoas no mundo conseguem isso de fato. Como parte desse trabalho, fiz alguns avanços interessantes em Econometria e Gerenciamento de risco. Em 2007, solucionei um problema que havia sido resolvido de forma insatisfatória durante 22 anos, ao criar um índice para medir o desempenho ajustado ao risco que era mais acurado, mais preditivo e conceitualmente mais bem fundamentado do que os índices tradicionais de William Sharpe (prêmio Nobel 1990) e Franco Modigliani (Nobel 1985). Em 2015 mostrei que o método recomendado pelo Prêmio Nobel de Economia Harry Markowitz, para otimização de portfólio, apresenta algumas falhas, e propus algumas melhorias que tornam esse método mais eficiente e seguro. Em 2021 apontei falhas na recomendação do Prêmio Nobel de Economia de 2003, Clive Granger, quanto ao uso do conceito de cointegração, e apresentou uma solução mais adequada para o mesmo problema. Entre outras contribuições em processos de otimização de algoritmos genéticos, ranqueamento e seleção de genótipos, reconhecimento de padrões etc.

Jacobsen: Quais são alguns dos aspectos mais importantes da ideia de superdotados e gênios? Esses mitos que permeiam as culturas do mundo. Quais são esses mitos? Que verdades os dissipam?

Melão Jr.: parece haver diferentes mitos entre diferentes estratos intelectuais. Para a maior parte da população, com QI abaixo de 130, parece que pensam no gênio como uma pessoa maluca, reclusa, antissocial, fisicamente frágil, e todos os defeitos físicos e psicológicos que eles conseguem imaginar, como uma necessidade mórbida de empurrar para baixo a pessoa por não tolerarem o fato de que ela se sobressai em alguma coisa e ainda por cima ter pequena vantagem em quase tudo. Muitos filmes, livros e revistas tentam reforçar esse estereótipo. Mas há outras ideias incorretas que são disseminadas em outras faixas de QI. No nível de 130 a 180, por exemplo, parece haver uma supervalorização dos resultados em testes de QI, sem uma compreensão correta sobre os limites de até que ponto esses testes produzem escores acurados e fidedignos.

Outro mito está relacionado ao nível de raridade. Pessoas que não tenham noções de Psicometria (quase todas fora das sociedades de alto QI) acham que superdotados são muito raros, algo como 1 em 1 milhão ou até mais raros. Eles geralmente também não têm noção da diferença entre “superdotado” e “gênio”, inclusive alguns acham que superdotado é mais inteligente do que gênio.

Jacobsen: Alguma opinião sobre o conceito de Deus ou a ideia de deuses e filosofia, teologia e religião?

Melão Jr.: minha família era católica. Eu me tornei ateu aos 11 anos, depois de estudar sobre algumas religiões. Num processo de transição que durou alguns anos entre os 17 e 25 anos, acabei me tornando agnóstico. Eu cheguei a me interessar pela Fé Bahá’í aos 27 anos e aos 28 me tornei deísta e escrevi um artigo no qual apresento argumentos científicos sérios sobre a existência de Deus. Digo “argumentos sérios” porque todos os argumentos pseudocientíficos que conheço sobre o assunto são tentativas desesperadas de “provar” uma crença a priori. É diferente de uma análise imparcial que conduz a uma conclusão que não havia servido como motivação inicial. Continuo sendo deísta, cheguei a fundar minha própria religião e estou escrevendo um livro sobre o assunto.

Jacobsen: Quanto a ciência influencia na visão de mundo para você?

Melão Jr.: A Ciência é o único caminho que conhecemos por meio do qual se pode desenvolver modelos adequados para representar a realidade senciente, modelos funcionais, capazes de fazer generalizações e previsões, em que os resultados obtidos são razoavelmente conforme as previsões, sem que as previsões dependam da sorte para acertos casuais. A Ciência é imprescindível no processo de aquisição do conhecimento e desenvolvimento tecnológico. Por outro lado, é importante compreender as limitações da Ciência, como um corpo de disciplinas que nos oferece um método valioso, mas que não está imune a falhas. O grande diferencial da Ciência não está no conhecimento que ela produz, mas sim no método que permite que ela se corrija a si mesma e faça isso constantemente, atualizando-se, refinando-se, ampliando-se etc., de modo que todo o conhecimento científico, mesmo que seja fundamentalmente incorreto, tem alguma utilidade prática e funciona razoavelmente bem dentro dos limites que a Teoria da Medida estabelece. O modelo cosmológico de Ptolomeu, por exemplo, mesmo sendo fundamentalmente errado, permitia fazer previsões muito acuradas. Algumas vezes as teorias científicas podem não representar estruturalmente de forma acurada os fenômenos naturais, mas ainda que as explicações teóricas não sejam as mais corretas, elas funcionam. Os conhecimentos obtidos por outros meios, como a Filosofia, a Religião ou a cultura popular, geralmente têm menor probabilidade de “funcionar”, e mesmo quando funcionam, é difícil regular os parâmetros que determinam seu funcionamento, devido à ausência de uma teoria subjacente que esteja organizada por um modelo matemático.

Jacobsen: Quais foram alguns dos testes realizados e pontuações obtidas (com desvios padrão) para você?

Melão Jr.: não há uma resposta simples a essa pergunta. Aliás, entre todas as perguntas dessa entrevista, talvez essa seja a mais difícil, porque além de dar uma resposta correta, preciso tentar ser diplomático para não parecer muito arrogante. Minha namorada já me perguntou dezenas de vezes qual é o meu QI, Tor já me perguntou isso pelo menos 5 vezes, e eu geralmente me esquivo do assunto, porque é demorado ter que explicar tudo. Mas eu vou responder aqui e quando outras pessoas me perguntarem novamente, eu vou fornecer o link dessa resposta, inclusive porque em questões anteriores e no texto introdutório comentei um pouco sobre testes clínicos, hrIQts, estimativas e comparações. Com isso, creio que será possível expressar minha opinião sobre esse tema de forma razoavelmente completa e acurada em menos de 50 páginas, aproveitando as respostas anteriores como pré-requisitos.

Fui examinado pela primeira vez aos 3 anos de idade, e cheguei até os testes para 9 anos, porque não tinham acima de 9 anos para crianças que não sabiam ler. Eu não sei qual o nome dos testes, mas o desvio padrão provavelmente era 24. Há vários pontos complexos que precisam ser examinados sobre isso, porque a evolução da inteligência em função da idade não é linear, como na fórmula simplificada de Stern, o desvio padrão não é 24 em todas as faixas etárias abaixo de 16 anos, a maioria das crianças muito jovens examinadas são prodígios forçados que os pais tentaram ensinar muita coisa desde que nasceram, mas não foi assim no meu caso, meu pai saía para trabalhar antes de eu acordar e voltava depois que eu já estava dormindo, minha mãe trabalhava quase o dia todo, por isso nenhum deles tinha sequer tempo para ficar muito comigo, quanto menos para me treinar como um prodígio forçado. Outros pontos a considerar são que o desenvolvimento intelectual não termina aos 16 anos (nem 17 ou 18 ou 19), nem chega ao limite numa idade fixa para todas as pessoas, nem permanece estável ao chegar em determinada idade. Portanto a interpretação de que a idade mental de 9 anos aos 3 anos corresponde a um ratio IQ 300 é grosseiramente incorreta e ingênua. Mesmo depois de converter a escala com desvio padrão 24 para 16, chegando a 233, continua incorreta. A curva de evolução da inteligência em função da idade também varia de uma pessoa para outra. Por isso não é razoável tomar como base testes aplicados na infância para tentar estimar qual será o QI em idade adulta. Há vários casos de QIs medidos na infância que se mostram muito distantes dos corretos em idade adulta, embora alguns possam “acertar por sorte”, como no caso de Terrence Tao, que teve o QI medido em 230 e, por sorte, realmente o QI dele está perto disso. No meu caso, é possível que também o QI medido tenha chegado perto do valor correto “por sorte”, mas os testes utilizados, o método utilizado, etc. não são apropriados.

Outro detalhe é que eu não sei se eu continuaria resolvendo as tarefas típicas de crianças com mais de 10 anos, mas é possível que sim, porém a precocidade em resolver tarefas típicas de crianças mais velhas não diz quase nada, ou diz muito pouco, sobre o nível intelectual que será alcançado em idade adulta, porque as habilidades medidas não fornecem informações úteis para esse tipo de prognóstico. O tipo de habilidade que indicaria um nível intelectual muito alto (200+) em idade adulta não tem relação com o mesmo tipo de tarefa que uma criança de 8, 9 ou 10 anos, ou mesmo 20 anos, poderia realizar, mas sim com a solução de problemas que indicassem traços de criatividade e pensamento profundo para aquela idade. O evento na aula de Geografia aos 9 anos, por exemplo, foi um indicativo muito mais relevante do que o resultado do teste aos 3 anos, não apenas porque aos 9 anos já havia alcançado maior maturidade e estava mais perto do potencial que teria quando adulto, mas também, e principalmente, porque o tipo de problema envolvido estava mais estreitamente relacionado aos processos cognitivos necessários a adultos geniais.

Conforme comentei no texto introdutório, em outras respostas, em alguns artigos e em alguns fóruns, os testes de QI e os hrIQts apresentam problemas na validade de constructo, erros no cálculo da norma e inadequação do nível de dificuldade. Eu já tive uma experiência muito ruim com Paul Cooijmans em 2001 e eu não pretendo voltar a perder tempo com isso. O Space, Time & Hyperspace (STH) de Cooijmans propunha medir o QI até 207 (σ=16), embora a dificuldade real das questões mais difíceis desse teste não seja muito maior que 170. Mas isso não é o principal problema. O STH contém vários erros primários que invalidam completamente o teste e a norma, embora muitas pessoas o considerem um dos “melhores” hrIQts. Em 2001 escrevi para Cooijmans sobre isso e apontei a ele um desses erros, mas ele se recusou a conversar a respeito disso e não admitiu o erro dele. Eu não tenho paciência para lidar com pessoas que agem como ele. Vou descrever exatamente qual o problema usando um exemplo:

O enunciado geral para todas as questões do STH era a seguinte:

a : b :: c : d

Significando: “a” está para “b” assim como “c” está para “d”.

Dados “a, b, c” determine “d”.

O enunciado, juntamente com o teste, podem ser acessados em https://web.archive.org/web/20040812113534/http://www.gliasociety.org/

Segue um print do que está no link acima:

3.png

O enunciado geral diz que há uma relação da 1ª figura para a 2ª figura que deve ser descoberta e, em seguida, essa mesma relação deve ser aplicada na 3ª figura para produzir a 4ª figura. Esse é o único enunciado geral para todas as questões desse teste, apresentado no início do teste, e funciona assim nas questões 1 até 9, mas não é assim na questão 10 nem em 16 outras questões entre as 28 que constituem esse teste.

Ele queria que na questão 10 fosse descoberta a relação da 1ª figura para a 3ª figura e, em seguida, essa mesma relação fosse aplicada na 2ª figura para produzir a 4ª figura! Mas em nenhum momento ele pediu isso no enunciado. O que o enunciado pede é exatamente o que descrevi acima. Se a pessoa responde exatamente o que o enunciado está pedindo, a pessoa perde 1 ponto!

Há várias outras questões no STH com esse mesmo erro básico de lógica. Nessa situação surreal, se a pessoa acertar todas as 28 questões exatamente em conformidade com o que pede o enunciado do teste, a pessoa receberá apenas 11 certos e terá escore 135 em vez de 205 pela norma atual, ou 140 em vez de 207 pela norma antiga.

Como Cooijmans não aceitou conversar a respeito disso, eu conversei (na época) com 3 outras pessoas capacitadas para opinar: Petri Widsten, Albert Frank e Guilherme Marques dos Santos Silva.

Petri Widsten teve o escore mais alto no Sigma Test, no STH e foi campeão em vários concursos de lógica e de QI, inclusive http://www.worldiqchallenge.com/rankings.html, onde Petri teve quase o dobro do escore bruto de Rick Rosner. Petri rapidamente concordou comigo sobre isso, inclusive com prejuízo para as próprias respostas dele, porque ele havia respondido o que ele achava que o Cooijmans gostaria de receber como resposta, não o que seria a resposta mais certa. Todas as vezes que me lembro desse assunto, fico estressado, porque Cooijmans é uma pessoa muito teimosa. Eu não acho que Cooijmans seja estúpido ou desonesto; eu acho que ele é inteligente e ele tenta fazer o que ele acredita ser certo, mas a teimosia dele é maior do que a inteligência dele.

Albert Frank foi professor de Lógica e Matemática na Universidade de Bruxelas, campeão veterano de Xadrez na Bélgica. Albert também concordou comigo e fez alguns comentários sobre Lógica formal que categorizam o tipo de erro cometido pelo Cooijmans.

Guilherme Marques dos Santos Silva é membro de Sigma V e foi campeão no concurso de QI “Ludomind International Contest IV”, também concordou comigo e “desistiu” de terminar de fazer o STH depois que viu esse erro absurdo. Ele disse que faltavam poucas questões para terminar, mas devido ao grave viés na correção, não teve interesse em prosseguir.

Além das pessoas com as quais conversei naquela época, também conversei recentemente com Tianxi Yu sobre esse tipo de problema. Yu tem escore 196, σ=15 no Death Numbers, que é considerado um teste sério e com norma desinflada. Ele comentou que já encontrou erros em vários testes, e ele postou uma extensa e detalhada crítica pública sobre isso em um grupo, citando os diversos tipos de erros que o incomodam. Há vários pontos nos quais discordo das opiniões de Yu, mas em relação aos testes, nossas opiniões são muito semelhantes.

Logo que tomei meu primeiro contato com as sociedades de alto QI e conheci o site do Miyaguchi (1999), cheguei a me interessar em fazer o Power Test, que eu considero um dos melhores em termos de validade de constructo e com nível adequado de dificuldade. Na época eu tinha 27 anos e uma opinião diferente da atual, eu tinha três objetivos com o Power Test: um deles era a diversão, outro era bater o recorde de Rick Rosner de QI~193 e o terceiro era entrar em Mega Society. Naquela época era utilizada a norma calculada por Garth Zietsman para o Power Test, com teto 197, mas antes de eu terminar de resolver todas as questões, o Power Test deixou de ser aceito em Mega Society e o teto foi “revisado” para 180. Então eu perdi completamente o interesse.

Garth Zietsman é um estatístico competente e a norma que ele calculou, provavelmente utilizando Teoria de Resposta ao Item, é consistente e muito bem fundamentada. Se os mesmos itens utilizados no Mega, Titan e Ultra estavam no Power, então as dificuldades individuais desses itens foram mantidas e determinavam a norma do Power. Por isso quando o teto do Power Test foi modificado para 180, isso foi um erro. Simplesmente foram desconsideradas as mais de 4.000 aplicações do Meta, Titan e Ultra, que serviram de base para a norma calculado por Zietsman, e foi calculada uma nova norma baseada em poucas dezenas de pessoas. O procedimento correto seria somar os novos dados (sobre os resultados de cada item respondido pelas pessoas examinadas com o Power) ao banco de itens que continha as questões do Mega, Titan e Ultra, calibrar novamente os parâmetros de dificuldade, poder discriminante e acerto casual (se aplicável) de cada item, então revisar as normas dos 4 testes de Hoeflin que compartilhavam aqueles itens. Assim os níveis de dificuldade seriam preservados igualmente em todos os testes, mantendo uma escala unificada.

Mas da maneira como foi feito, a norma do Power ficou distorcida para baixo em relação aos outros três testes de Hoeflin. Para esclarecer melhor o problema, vou citar um exemplo: no Power Test a questão sobre a fita de Moebius está sendo tratada estatisticamente como se tivesse parâmetro b = +2.81, ou seja, 50% das pessoas com QI 145 (σ=16) devem acertar essa questão. Entretanto, a mesma questão sobre a fita de Moebius ao ser aplicada em outro dos testes de Hoeflin está sendo tratada estatisticamente como se tivesse parâmetro b = 3,88 ou seja, 50% das pessoas com QI 162 (σ=16) devem acertar essa questão. Isso é uma inconsistência grave, porque ou a questão tem dificuldade 2,81 em todos os testes nos quais ela é utilizada, ou 3,88 em todos os testes. A questão não pode ter dificuldade 3,88 em alguns testes e 2,81 em outros. A normatização de Zietsman é consistente nesse aspecto, de modo que o teto do Power produz uma norma na mesma escala em que estão as normas do Mega, Titan e Ultra.

Um dos motivos que provocou essa redução no teto do Power é porque algumas pessoas já haviam levado um ou mais dos outros testes de Hoeflin nos quais os itens do Power estavam presentes, por isso a probabilidade de acertar esses itens na segunda tentativa era maior, aumentando ainda mais na terceira e quarta tentativas. Mas a maneira correta de lidar com isso seria ajustando todas as normas de todos os testes que continham aqueles itens, em função do número de vezes que aqueles itens já haviam sido resolvidos pela pessoa examinada, com normas personalizadas para cada pessoa, ou com base em quantos e quais dos três outros testes a pessoa já havia resolvido (uma equação para isso poderia ser facilmente determinada com o uso de análise de clusters, por exemplo).

Também poderia simplesmente verificar os escores de pessoas que haviam feito mais de um teste (ou o mesmo teste mais de uma vez) e o efeito disso sobre a probabilidade de acertar cada item repetido no segundo, terceiro ou quarto teste que continha o mesmo item. Embora esse ajuste global no conjunto de itens não fosse tão acurado e refinado quanto a análise desse efeito sobre cada item individual, como sugeri acima, isso já ajudaria a aprimorar as normas em todos os 4 testes, em vez de distorcer a norma do Power em relação a todos os outros.

Enfim, há uma quantidade preocupante de erros nos hrIQts, tanto nos cálculos das normas quanto nas respostas aceitas como corretas, entre outros problemas. Por isso o Sigma Test sempre adotou uma política de transparência, sendo aberto a debates, se a pessoa tivesse algum escore acima de 180 em qualquer teste e ela acreditasse que alguma resposta dela estava certa e ela achasse que recebeu uma avaliação incorreta, ela podia contestar a correção de uma questão que ela escolhesse. Se ela tivesse razão, ela podia contestar a correção de mais uma questão, e assim por diante, até que a contestação dela fosse improcedente. O Moon Test e o Sigma Test Extended adotam uma política semelhante de transparência, mas o escore mínimo em outros testes para ter esse direito a contestação é 190 tanto no Moon Test quanto no Sigma Test Extended. Isso permite revisar eventuais erros, além de permitir que a pessoa examinada tenha a oportunidade de defender o que ela considera certo, na hipótese de ela achar que merecia mais pontos do que recebeu. Em minha opinião, todos os testes deveriam adotar uma política semelhante.

Se houvesse algum teste com características apropriadas, eu consideraria a possibilidade de fazer outro teste, embora eu esteja mais velho e mais burro. Basicamente deveria ser um teste com boa validade de constructo nos níveis mais altos, teto apropriado e dificuldade apropriada. Além disso, deveria ter um sistema formal de “reclamação” que permitisse contestar o resultado. Sem isso, não vejo razão para perder tempo com essas coisas. Um hrIQt pode facilmente consumir 50 horas e se for um teste realmente difícil, com nível adequado de dificuldade, pode consumir mais de 500 horas. É um tempo que poderia ser aplicado em atividades mais interessantes e produtivas. Por isso, a menos que o teste reúna uma série de virtudes notáveis que justifiquem o esforço, eu não teria interesse. Na verdade, há um teste que, na minha opinião, atende a esses quesitos, mas eu não posso resolver porque eu sou o autor. Isso me faz lembrar de um assunto que foi discutido há poucas semanas num grupo:

4.png

Na verdade, alguns problemas que eu já resolvi são mais difíceis que os problemas mais difíceis do Sigma Test Extented. Então há algumas pistas úteis nisso.

Algumas pessoas já fizeram estimativas de meu QI e já fizeram algumas comparações. Em 2004, o fundador de Pars Society (QI>180), Baran Yonter, estimou meu QI em mais de 200 (σ=16, G), isso é equivalente a mais de 240 pIQ (σ=16, T). Achei que ele estivesse sendo gentil, mas em 2005, quando fui indicado para a produção do programa de TV “Fantástico”, da rede Globo, como a pessoa mais inteligente do Brasil, descobri que outras pessoas tinham opiniões semelhantes à de Baran sobre mim. Eu me senti lisonjeado com as indicações, mas eu não sei se realmente sou a pessoa mais inteligente do Brasil e eu disse isso ao jornalista, mas ele insistiu, e como eu havia sido o mais indicado, e também por uma questão de vaidade, acabei aceitando fazer a matéria, cujo vídeo está disponível em minha página e meu canal.

É necessário fazer uma ressalva importante em relação à correta determinação da pessoa mais inteligente do Brasil, porque há um brasileiro que ganhou uma medalha Fields (Artur Ávila) e há um brasileiro que prestou contribuições fundamentais ao desenvolvimento das lógicas paraconsistentes (Newton da Costa), ambos são pessoas muito inteligentes, mas com perfis diferentes do meu, por isso seria difícil fazer uma comparação adequada para saber com segurança quem é o mais inteligente do Brasil, porque cada um deles é profundamente especializado em uma área muito específica, enquanto meus talentos e realizações se distribuem por uma grande variedade de áreas diferentes. Como resultado da maior especialização, o nível de profundidade que eles alcançaram é maior, mas essa maior profundidade não reflete uma maior profundidade de raciocínio, e sim maior profundidade de conhecimento. Além disso, eu só estudei até o 11º ano, enquanto eles fizeram doutorado e pós-doutorados com excelentes orientadores, o que me coloca numa situação de “correr com as pernas amarradas” em comparação a pessoas que correm montadas em cavalos. As pessoas que trabalharam nos mesmos problemas nos quais eu trabalhei estavam equipadas com ferramentas matemáticas mais sofisticadas, acesso a computadores muito mais potentes, acesso a vasta bibliografia de alta qualidade, receberam treinamento formal muito mais prolongado, intensivo e sob orientação de cientistas experientes, enquanto todo o meu “treinamento” foi auto-administrado, praticamente sem recursos bibliográficos e com modestos recursos computacionais. Muitas vezes precisei criar minhas próprias ferramentas estatísticas antes de usá-las na resolução dos problemas, e depois eu descobria que já existiam ferramentas prontas para as mesmas finalidades. Durante o desenvolvimento de meu sistema para operar no Mercado Financeiro, situações como essa se repetiram muitas vezes.

Um detalhe que é importante esclarecer: eu comentei (no apêndice) que a qualidade média do ensino no Brasil é péssima, então qual seria minha desvantagem por não ter frequentado esse ambiente péssimo? E a resposta é simples: muitos dos melhores acadêmicos brasileiros vão estudar nos melhores centros de pesquisa e universidades da Europa, dos EUA, Canadá, Austrália, Japão etc. Além disso, há alguns poucos pesquisadores realmente bons no Brasil, e quando um jovem talento recebe orientação de um pesquisador de primeira magnitude, isso faz uma diferença muito grande. Portanto há uma vantagem substancial nas oportunidades de Artur e Newton da Costa se comparados com a minha situação, porque eles tiveram acesso a muito mais recursos, além das vantagens em orientação e treinamento.

Em relação às outras pessoas que trabalharam nos mesmos problemas que eu, e eu resolvi esses problemas antes delas ou melhor do que elas ou as duas coisas, quase todos são de outros países: Nick Trefethen é Chefe do Dep. de Cálculo Numérico na Universidade de Oxford e coleciona alguns prêmios internacionais de Matemática (Leslie Fox Prize 1985, FRS Prize 2005, IMA Gold Medal 2010), Susumu Tachi é Professor Emérito na Universidade de Tóquio e Professor Convidado no MIT, Stefan Steinerberger é professor de Matemática em Yale, William Sharpe é professore na Universidade da Califórnia e Nobel de Economia em 1990, Franco Modigliani é Professor na Universidade de Roma e Nobel de Economia em 1985, Clive Granger foi professor na Universidade de Nottingham e Nobel de Economia em 2003, entre outros. Então as pessoas que trabalharam em alguns dos problemas que eu resolvi constituem uma “concorrência de peso”, além de eles terem acesso a mais recursos, mais assessores etc., portanto acho que eu ter realizado trabalhos melhores que os deles, ou ter solucionado problemas relevantes antes deles, talvez represente algum mérito para mim, eu não tenho falsa modéstia em admitir isso.

O fato é que a determinação correta da pessoa mais inteligente de um país não é algo tão simples, não é um jogo de egos e vaidades. É necessário que haja embasamento real para isso. Por exemplo, eu acho que Petri Widsten tem excelentes chances de ser a pessoa mais inteligente da Finlândia, não apenas pelo excelente resultado dele no Sigma Test, mas também porque a tese dele de doutorado, além de muito inovadora, foi premiada como a melhor tese do país no biênio 2002-2003 e ele venceu vários concursos de lógica. O conjunto desses resultados, e outros detalhes menores, como ele ser fluente em mais de 10 idiomas, sugerem um nível intelectual real com raridade acima de 1 em 5 milhões, que é a população da Finlândia. Entretanto há outras pessoas muito inteligentes na Finlândia, como Rauno Lindström ou Bengt Holmström. Embora a Finlândia seja um país culturalmente mais homogêneo, de modo que não há uma diferença de oportunidades tão grande quanto no meu caso, ainda assim a comparação ainda é difícil, por isso não seria prudente afirmar categoricamente que determinada pessoa (Petri ou Rauno ou outro) é a mais inteligente da Finlândia. O mais apropriado seria atribuir uma probabilidade a cada um. Petri teria em torno de 95% de probabilidade de ser a pessoa mais inteligente da Finlândia, Talvez Rauno 2%, Bengt 1% e alguém entre as outras pessoas 5 milhões de pessoas 2%. No caso do Brasil, minha vantagem seria bem menor que a do Petri em relação aos outros fortes candidatos.

Em 2005, o amigo Alexandre Prata Maluf, membro de Sigma V, Pars Society e OlympIQ Society, estimou que meu QI deveria ser semelhante ou pouco acima do da Marilyn Vos Savant. Creio que a intenção dele foi fazer um elogio, porque a Marilyn é um ícone nas sociedades de alto QI, mas não gostei da comparação, porque não é uma comparação justa. Os problemas do mundo real que eu já resolvi são muito mais difíceis do que os problemas que ela resolveu. Não excluo a possibilidade de que ela talvez tenha um QI similar ao meu, mas ela precisaria provar isso com resultados concretos, solucionando problemas com grau de dificuldade compatível.

Recentemente, tomei conhecimento de que em 2018, num grupo privado, meu nome havia sido indicado numa postagem com título “Name the top 5 people (alive) with the highest measured IQs in the world today! Name, IQ and Test.” Achei surpreendente eu ter sido citado, porque desde 2006 eu estava afastado das sociedades de alto QI e só retornei há poucos meses, em fevereiro de 2022, mesmo assim Rasmus Waldna, da Suécia, muito gentilmente se lembrou de mim e sugeriu meu nome, e a indicação dele recebeu mais curtidas do que receberam os nomes de Terence Tao, Chris Hirata, Rick Rosner, Marilyn e Langan. Também foram indicados os nomes dos amigos Tor e Iakovos. Compreendo que foi um tópico informal, e as reações positivas das pessoas podem ter sido influenciadas por fatores extrínsecos à capacidade intelectual, algumas pessoas podem ter curtido por simpatia, por exemplo, ou porque gostam do meu cabelo, mas mesmo assim fiquei feliz com a lembrança e o reconhecimento, e feliz também por ver alguns amigos nessa lista.

Em 2001, David Spencer me comparou a Leonardo Da Vinci e Pascal. Em 2016 o amigo João Antonio L.J. me comparou a Newton e Galileu, e a maneira como ele escreveu e no contexto em que foi dito, achei um elogio comovente e sincero. Em 2017, novamente fui comparado a Leonardo (por Aurius). Em 2020, a revista Empiricus publicou um artigo de Bruno Mérola sobre gerenciamento de risco, no qual o autor comparou meu Melao Index com o índice de Sharpe (Nobel de 1990), e na análise que ele fez, apresentou fatos e argumentos demonstrando que meu índice é superior ao índice de Sharpe. Na verdade, meu índice também é superior ao de Modigliani (Nobel de 1985), Sortino e todos os outros, mas no artigo ele só mencionou o índice de Sharpe por ser o mais utilizado no mundo, por ser mais tradicional e mais conhecido, e citou o meu por ser o mais eficiente. Em 2021 fui comparado a Feynman e novamente a Leonardo, numa situação interessante, em que a pessoa (Francisco) fez uma análise razoavelmente detalhada da comparação para justificar sua opinião. Em 2021, novamente fui citado como possivelmente a pessoa mais inteligente do brasil por Luca Fujii, um dos maiores talentos precoces da Matemática brasileira, mas como ele ainda é muito jovem, não chegou a manifestar todo o seu brilho intelectual e por isso ainda não é tão famoso, mas será em breve. O Luca é uma pessoa com muitas virtudes morais, além de intelectuais, assim como o João Antonio L.J., por isso me sinto realmente honrado que essas pessoas tenham opiniões elevadas a meu respeito, e também porque sei que não dizem isso só para me agradar, mas sim baseados em critérios profundos, critérios muito bem fundamentados e bem ponderados. O João leu mais de 1000 de meus artigos, o Luca leu meus dois livros e seguramente leu centenas de meus artigos. Portanto, além de serem excepcionalmente capacitados, também tinham conhecimento sobre o que estavam falando.

Enfim, acho que os problemas do mundo real que resolvi, as pessoas que tentaram resolver os mesmos problemas e os prêmios que essas pessoas já ganharam e outros problemas que elas já resolveram, as opiniões de alguns expoentes das sociedades de alto QI a meu respeito talvez respondam um pouco sobre meu QI, certamente mais e melhor do que um teste padronizado poderia dizer.

Jacobsen: Que filosofia ética faz algum sentido, mesmo o sentido mais viável para você?

Melão Jr.: Não conheço nenhum autor que represente minhas opiniões sobre qualquer assunto de forma suficientemente acurada e completa. Sempre há detalhes nos quais ocorrem divergências. Em meu livro sobre a existência de Deus, um dos capítulos trata de Ética, no qual exponho minhas opiniões sobre isso. Há alguns artigos nos quais discuto questões relacionadas à Ética, esse é um deles: https://www.saturnov.org/liberdadeedireitos

Jacobsen: Que filosofia política faz algum sentido, até mesmo o sentido mais viável para você?

Melão Jr.: há um provérbio polonês que diz “No capitalismo o homem trai o homem. No socialismo ocorre o contrário”. Em teoria, quase todos os sistemas políticos tentam ser razoavelmente bons, com diferentes prioridades, mas cada um visando, a seu próprio modo, objetivos nobres e elevados, embora utópicos e superficiais em pontos básicos, por isso ao serem instaurados na prática, fica claro que as vicissitudes humanas corrompem qualquer sistema, porque os sistemas teóricos não fazem previsões adequadas sobre como lidar com humanos reais. Creio que num futuro não muito distante, se não nos destruirmos por uma guerra, a liderança política do planeta estará “nas mãos” de máquinas inteligentes, e haverá um sistema muito mais lógico e justo do que qualquer sistema existente atualmente. Estará longe de ser um sistema perfeito, mas será muitíssimo superior a qualquer coisa que conhecemos, pois esses sistemas serão capazes de analisar interações muito mais complexas e profundas das relações humanas entre grandes grupos e como essas relações evoluem a longo prazo, aproximadamente do mesmo modo que os melhores programas de Xadrez superam por larga margem a qualidade de análise dos humanos, “enxergando” de forma muito mais correta e mais profunda e fazendo previsões mais acuradas do que qualquer humano. O problema é que existe um risco elevado de que sejamos escravizados pelas máquinas, ou algo assim, ou haja uma união simbiótica entre humanos máquinas, ou parasitária, é difícil prever, vai depender de algumas decisões que tomarmos nos próximos anos e décadas.

Jacobsen: Que metafísica faz algum sentido para você, mesmo o sentido mais viável para você?

Melão Jr.: a teoria do multiverso está no limiar entre a Física e a Metafísica. A palavra “multiverso” é uma construção inadequada, mas o significado é plausível e até mesmo provável.

Jacobsen: Que sistema filosófico abrangente de visão de mundo faz algum sentido, mesmo o sentido mais viável para você?

Melão Jr.: o que eu descrevo no livro que citei acima, no qual apresento argumentos que me parecem conclusivos sobre a existência de Deus, e abordo outros temas filosóficos e científicos.

Jacobsen: O que dá sentido à vida para você?

Melão Jr.: não acho que haja necessidade de haver algo que dê sentido à vida além dela mesma. A vida tem um sentido intrínseco. Mas posso afirmar que proteger minha mãe e proporcionar o melhor possível a ela era algo que me dava alegria. Ela faleceu em 2016. Fiquei sem me alimentar adequadamente e sem dormir adequadamente durante alguns meses. Eu já havia pesquisado sobre criogenia e sabia que essa tecnologia não oferece perspectivas realistas de trazer a pessoa de volta à vida, porque as membranas de trilhões de células são rompidas com o choque térmico, deixando o citoplasma vazar, um processo com baixa probabilidade de ser revertido. Comecei a pensar numa forma de ressuscitá-la, mas acho muito difícil que a pessoa ressuscitada pudesse ter restaurada exatamente a mesma personalidade e mesmas memórias, portanto não seria a mesma pessoa. Se as memórias e a personalidade dela tivessem sido armazenadas integralmente em um HDD ou SSD, ou algum dispositivo com propriedades similares, então talvez fosse possível restaurar a mesma pessoa, num genuíno processo de ressuscitação. A alegria de viver se foi com a morte dela. Em 2018, conheci minha namorada, Tamara, que está morando comigo desde então e posso dizer que ela tem sido minha alegria de viver, minha vida seria muito pequena e descolorida se não fosse por ela. É uma honra para a espécie humana que existam pessoas profundamente empenhadas em fazer o que é certo e justo, como ela, que elevam a dignidade humana a um patamar próximo da perfeição.

Jacobsen: O significado é derivado externamente, gerado internamente, ambos, ou algo mais?

Melão Jr.: em dedução o significado é atribuído, em última instância, arbitrariamente. A pessoa determina o que é um triângulo e aquilo será um triângulo. Em indução finita, o significado é inferido a partir da análise da amplitude de variação das propriedades observadas em entidades de mesma classe em comparação à dispersão das mesmas propriedades observadas em entidades de classes diferentes.

A evolução no conceito de “planeta”, por exemplo, ilustra bem como isso acontece. Os gregos classificavam a Lua, o Sol, Mercúrio, Vênus, Marte, Júpiter e Saturno como planetas. Nem todos os gregos, na verdade. Aristarco, Seleuco, Ecfanto (supondo que Ecfanto tenha de fato existido) e Filolau não adotavam o mesmo critério. Com Copérnico, o Sol deixava de ser considerado um planeta, enquanto a Terra passava a ser classificada como planeta, porque o critério dos gregos era que os planetas se moviam. Quando foi descoberto Urano, em 1781, também passou a ser classificado como planeta, porque suas propriedades gerais se ajustavam melhor a essa classe de objetos, e o mesmo aconteceu quando foi descoberto Ceres, em 1801. Porém, pouco depois, foram descobertos Palas, Vesta, Juno e outros objetos com órbitas muito semelhantes às de Ceres, todos muito menores que os demais planetas e compartilhando quase mesma órbita. Em poucos anos havia mais de 10 objetos com essas características, o que levou a reconsiderar se os critérios utilizados para classificar os planetas eram apropriados. Então surgiu o conceito de “planetoide” depois modificado para “asteroide” para incluir essa classe de objetos. Na época em que Plutão (1930) foi descoberto, como ele estava muito fora da zona de asteroides e seu tamanho foi originalmente estimado como sendo semelhante ao da Terra, foi classificado como planeta. Em poucos anos se verificou que ele era muito menor do que se pensava. As primeiras estimativas de 1931 atribuíam a Plutão 13.100 km de diâmetro, depois 6084,8 km, depois 5760 km, depois 3000 km, 2700 km, 2548 km, 2300 km, 2390 km e os dados mais recentes indicam cerca de 2376,6 km. Por isso, na época em que foi descoberto, era plausível que fosse classificado como “planeta”, mas ao constatar que era muito menor e menos massivo, a situação mudou. Essa questão é analisada com mais detalhes em meu livro sobre esse tema. Quando foram descobertos outros objetos transnetunianos, já se começou a considerar que talvez Plutão ficasse mais bem classificado como um daqueles objetos, em vez de ser considerado um planeta. Os planetas telúricos (Mercúrio, Vênus, Terra e Marte) tinham superfície rochosa, densidade média aproximadamente entre 4 e 5,5 vezes a da água, diâmetro aproximadamente entre 5.000 e 13.000 km, enquanto planetas jovianos (Júpiter, Saturno, Urano, Netuno) tinham “superfície” fluida, densidade média aproximadamente entre 0,7 e 1,7 vezes a da água, diâmetro aproximadamente entre 50.000 e 140.000 km. Mas Plutão ficava muito fora desses dois grupos, sua densidade 1,9 era semelhante à dos jovianos, mas seu tamanho era menor que o dos telúricos. Não se sabia se a superfície era rochosa, mas em princípio se acreditava que sim. Quando foi descoberto Éris – cuja massa é similar à de Plutão e talvez um pouco maior –, finalmente decidiram promover um debate sobre isso e reconsiderar os critérios para classificação de planetas. Em 2006, a UAI decidiu criar uma nova classe de objetos, os “planetas anões”, e Plutão entrou para essa categoria.

Eu pulei alguns eventos importantes, como a descoberta de Galileu e Simons dos 4 grandes satélites de Júpiter, que foram inicialmente considerados “planetas”, porque não existia o conceito de “satélite” até que Kepler sugeriu isso. Algumas vezes, Galileu se referia a esses objetos como “pequenas estrelas”, já que não se sabia muito bem o que eram as estrelas, embora Giordano Bruno já tivesse um palpite promissor.

O significado de “planeta” foi e continua sendo determinado pela comparação com outros objetos que apresentem diferentes níveis de similaridade. Em casos nos quais há grande números de objetos para comparar, como a taxonomia de animais, pode-se fazer as classificações em muitos níveis hierárquicos, com diferentes níveis de similaridade, e os significados são atribuídos de acordo com as propriedades comuns a todos os elementos da mesma classe, ao mesmo tempo em que se tenta selecionar critérios que permitam distinguir de elementos de outras classes. Nas classificações de cachorros e gatos, por exemplo, não é útil considerar o fato de terem 2 olhos, rabo e focinho, porque isso não ajuda a distinguir uma espécie da outra. Tamanho médio poderia ajudar, se a dispersão nos tamanhos fosse mais estreita, mas como as diferentes raças de cachorro variam numa amplitude muito grande, esse critério também não ajudaria muito. Nesses casos, critérios mais sutis e específicos, como morfologia do rosto, morfologia dos dentes e número de dentes acabam sendo mais úteis. O tamanho do focinho pode ajudar, mas o número de dentes tem significado semelhante, por estar relacionado ao tamanho do focinho, com a vantagem de ser mais objetivo e quantitativo.

Enfim, essas são as duas principais maneiras de determinar os significados. Uma é arbitrária, permite que se imponha quais características a entidade deve ter. A outra tenta descobrir quais característicos são comuns a todas as entidades de uma mesma classe e, ao mesmo tempo, são diferentes das características de entidades de classes semelhantes, de modo a possibilitar a distinção entre entidades de uma classe ou de outra. Esses significados são frequentemente incompletos, incertos e sujeitos a revisões, conforme se faz novas descobertas sobre outras entidades cujas características sejam limítrofes em determinada classe, levando a ampliar, estreitar ou reconfigurar os critérios de modo a incluir ou excluir a nova entidade em uma das classes conhecidas, ou, mais raramente, criar uma nova classe inaugurada por essa entidade.

Jacobsen: Você acredita em vida após a morte? Se sim, por que e de que forma? Se não, por que não?

Melão Jr.: o conceito de “morte” é um desligamento, que por enquanto não sabemos como religar, mas brevemente será possível de diferentes maneiras. Esse é um dos tópicos analisados mais detalhadamente em meu livro. O conceito de “alma” também precisa ser examinado com detalhes, para responder a isso, e o tamanho da resposta seria imensa.

Jacobsen: O que você acha do mistério e da transitoriedade da vida?

Melão Jr.: não acho que seja transitória. Por enquanto tem sido, mas isso deve mudar em breve.

Jacobsen: O que é amor para você?

Melão Jr.: é uma tentativa desesperada de inventar uma palavra para representar um sentimento indescritível.

Apêndice:

Sistema Educacional no Brasil e estudo de Richard Lynn sobre QIs em diferentes países.

O sistema educacional costuma ser ruim no mundo inteiro, mas no Brasil é muito pior do que a média de países com PIB similar ao nosso. Estimo que a educação brasileira seja uma das piores do mundo. O Professor Emérito da Universidade de Ulster Richard Lynn oferece uma explicação simplista para isso em seu artigo “QI e riqueza das nações”. Ele não trata da Educação. Trata da Economia, mas o argumento que ele utiliza para justificar as diferenças de renda seria igualmente (e melhor) aplicado à Educação, desde que o argumento fosse válido. Mas o argumento parte de uma premissa falsa. Há muitos erros no trabalho de Lynn. A ideia central que ele defende está certa, mas quantitativamente ele força resultados exagerados. A tese que ele defende – de que existem diferenças étnicas e regionais – está certa, mas as diferenças não são tão grandes quanto ele quer fazer parecer. De acordo com Lynn, o QI médio em Guiné Equatorial é 56. Se isso estivesse certo, seria esperado que o país fosse uma grande tribo de nômades, eles não teriam dominado a técnica de produzir fogo, não teriam construído arados, lanças etc. Mas existe uma civilização urbana lá. Além disso, pessoas com QI abaixo de 60 têm muita dificuldade para aprender a ler e escrever, mesmo vivendo em países com ampla infraestrutura e incentivo à alfabetização. Se mais de 91% da população de Guiné Equatorial sabe ler (supondo que essa informação não seja maquiada), mesmo num ambiente com menor incentivo ao aprendizado, seria muito difícil explicar como essa população com QI médio 56 é predominantemente alfabetizada. Lynn tenta disseminar as crenças neonazistas dele e usa essas pesquisas científicas para tentar ganhar credibilidade para suas opiniões. O QI médio dos judeus Ashkenazi é cerca de 114, a média mais alta do mundo, mas Lynn conseguiu manipular os dados de sua meta-análise para que o QI médio do estado de Israel ficasse em 94.

No caso do Brasil, os resultados de Lynn indicavam QI médio 87 e em revisão mais recente indicam 83,38. Se isso estivesse certo, seria uma boa explicação para baixa qualidade da produção científica brasileira e a péssima qualidade de ensino. Mas os problemas reais que predominam no Brasil são uma combinação de preguiça dos alunos, preguiça dos professores, nivelamento por baixo nas aulas e péssimo metodologia “pedagógica”.

Uma análise mais séria da situação mostra que o QI real médio do brasileiro não é tão baixo quanto os estudos de Lynn sugerem. Muitas pessoas entregam os questionários dos testes de QI sem responder, ou “chutam” todas as alternativas, ou respondem algumas e “chutam” as demais.

Em uma postagem minha no perfil de nosso amigo Iakovos Koukas, fiz um comentário razoavelmente detalhado sobre isso, o qual também reproduzi no grupo IQ Olympiad e reproduzo novamente a aqui:

5.png
6.png

Realmente existem diferenças cognitivas em função da etnia, assim como existem em relação à altura média, tamanho médio do pênis, concentração média de melanina sob a pele etc., mas as diferenças cognitivas são muito menores do que ele tenta “vender”.

De um lado, existe o problema do igualismo ingênuo, defendido por alguns grupos pseudoideológicos, e isso não encontra nenhum respaldo nos fatos. No extremo oposto, existem os grupos de pessoas como Richard Lynn, Tatu Vanhanen e Charles Murray que tentam exacerbar as diferenças raciais e usá-las para justificar a situação de miséria de alguns povos. Tanto o grupo dos eugenistas radicais quanto o dos igualistaristas radicais estão errados, mas entre um extremo e outro existem algumas verdades.

Assim como há diferenças cognitivas marcantes entre espécies, há diferenças entre etnias, porém menos marcantes porque a amplitude de variação genética dentro de uma mesma espécie é menor. Fingir que essas diferenças não existem é um erro, porque o conhecimento correto sobre as particularidades de cada etnia ajuda a fazer diagnósticos mais acurados de diversas doenças cujos sintomas não são os mesmos em todos grupos étnicos, o tempo adequado de exposição ao Sol para a síntese de vitamina D não é o mesmo, e muitas características que seriam interpretadas como “saudáveis” em algumas etnias não são em outras, por isso o uso correto dessas informações ajuda a interpretar com mais eficácia os resultados de hemogramas, analisar anomalias ósseas, dermatológicas e musculares. Conhecer as diferenças fisiológicas, cognitivas e comportamentais de cada etnia é importante; o problema está em usar essas diferenças com o propósito de tiranizar, oprimir ou diminuir os méritos de um povo, isso é antiético e anticientífico, e Lynn tenta fazer isso de forma ostensiva.

No caso do Brasil, parece haver uma distorção perto de 10 a 15 pontos nos números apresentados por Lynn, então o QI médio correto do brasileiro deve ser cerca de 95, um pouco abaixo da média, mas não tanto a ponto de justificar os péssimos resultados do Brasil em Ciência. Os problemas reais parecem ser a preguiça e outros itens que mencionei acima. Há estudos recentes que questionam se o comportamento aparentemente preguiçoso deveria ser classificado exatamente como “preguiça” ou não, mas não vou entrar também nessa discussão para não tornar esse texto ainda mais longo.

Nos anos 1950 e 1960, Richard Feynman esteve algumas vezes no Brasil e fez críticas severas ao sistema educacional brasileiro, ele fez alguns experimentos sociais de improviso e mostrou que estudantes de doutorado brasileiros muitas vezes não compreendiam o básico sobre o que estavam fazendo, agiam mecanicamente, sem a menor noção sobre os fundamentos. Os brasileiros escreveram algumas palavras bonitas em relação às críticas de Feynman, dizendo que pretendiam melhorar alguma coisa, mas a situação atual é talvez até pior do que era na época em que Feynman esteve em nosso país. Além da situação vergonhosa da educação no Brasil, há ainda outros problemas nesse episódio, porque os “educadores” brasileiros demonstraram surpresa e perplexidade com os problemas apontados por Feynman, como se estivessem numa casa pegando fogo, mas não estivessem enxergando que o fogo estava devorando tudo, até que um vizinho entra e mostra o fogo a eles. Então eles agradecem, mostram-se chocados, fazem um discurso de mea-culpa, mas não fazem nada concreto em relação ao incêndio, que continua devastador… É inacreditável que não estivessem enxergando o fogo antes de o vizinho indicar a eles e é inacreditável que continuem sem tomar qualquer providência depois que o problema foi apontado.

Embora os cientistas e educadores não tenham se mobilizado para tentar resolver o problema, alguns expoentes brasileiros da Matemática, que tinham algumas experiências na Europa e nos Estados Unidos, decidiram tentar reproduzir um pequeno oásis, trazendo para o Brasil um pouco do que haviam experimentado em países desenvolvidos. Em 1952, foi fundado o IMPA (Instituto de Matemática Pura e Aplicada). Naquela época, o Brasil estava no Grupo I da IMU (International Mathematical Union), o nível mais baixo. Ao longo de 70 anos, o IMPA tem sido o único lugar no Brasil onde houve uma tentativa sincera de identificar e apoiar alguns talentos notáveis, tentando escapar da burocracia e da ineficiência do Sistema Educacional. Mas o IMPA é apenas 1 instituição situada no Rio de Janeiro. O Brasil é um país grande, com 8.500.000 km^2, de modo que as pessoas que moram longe do RJ muitas vezes não conseguem desfrutar o que o IMPA oferece. Por isso o alcance do IMPA ainda é pequeno. Com a popularização da Internet isso tem melhorado, mas o número de beneficiados ainda é muito limitado, inclusive porque há relativamente pouca divulgação dos eventos do IMPA, a maioria das escolas não inscreve seus alunos em OBM (Olimpíada Brasileira da Matemática), a maioria dos alunos nem sequer sabe que existe OBM. Há alguns professores espalhados pelo Brasil ligados ao IMPA, que tentam contribuir para a identificação de talentos, mas é um processo difícil, eles não recebem incentivo do governo, nem de empresas. Mesmo com esses obstáculos, entre 1952 e 2015 o IMPA elevou o Brasil do Grupo 1 para o Grupo 5 (o mais alto), do qual fazem parte apenas 11 países: Alemanha, Brasil, Canadá, China, EUA, França, Israel, Itália, Japão, Reino Unido e Rússia.

Não sei quais os critérios para ser incluído no Grupo 5 da IMU, mas suponho que seja uma combinação de mérito e política, talvez mais mérito do que política. Digo que há um pouco de política porque há países com duas medalhas Fields ou dois prêmios Abel, mas não fazem parte desse grupo, como Austrália, Bélgica, Irã e Suécia, enquanto o Brasil tem apenas 1 medalha Fields. Claro que esses prêmios não devem ser o único critério, mas são indicativos bastante razoáveis sobre a nata da matemática que se produz em cada país. Também há vários países com 1 medalha Fields e uma tradição matemática mais longa, que também não estão no Grupo 5. Talvez o critério leve em consideração o ritmo de crescimento, e nesse quesito o Brasil talvez seja, ao lado da China e da Índia, um dos que mais tem crescido na produção de Matemática de alto nível.

O fato é que se QI médio do brasileiro fosse realmente tão baixo quanto alega Richard Lynn, e o problema principal no Brasil fosse realmente o baixo QI médio da população, então as ações do IMPA não teriam sido capazes de modificar substancialmente a qualidade e a quantidade da produção matemática de alto nível. Se o problema fosse baixo QI, a solução viria de outras ações, como melhoras nutricionais, por exemplo. As ações do IMPA não alteraram o QI médio da população; apenas alteraram a eficiência na identificação de talentos que já existiam no país, e após a identificação passou a existir oferta de oportunidade e incentivo a esses talentos.

Os números apontados por Lynn, de que o QI médio do brasileiro seria 87, mostram-se inconsistentes com os resultados alcançados pelo IMPA. Mesmo com uma população de 213 milhões, seria difícil que algumas dessas pessoas chegassem ao topo mundial com raridade perto de 1 em 300 milhões se o Brasil estivesse 1 desvio padrão abaixo da média, mesmo porque o IMPA não consegue estender seus benefícios a mais do que 1% a 5% da população mais talentosa. Claro que outras hipóteses seriam aplicáveis, como um desvio padrão maior na distribuição de QI entre a população brasileira ou uma distribuição mais platicúrtica. Mas geralmente o que se observa em grupos com altura média menor é um desvio padrão mais estreito, em vez de mais largo. Isso acontece com praticamente todas as variáveis. O desvio padrão no diâmetro de parafusos maiores é mais largo do que em parafusos menores. Em outras palavras, o desvio padrão percentual geralmente é mantido, então seria estranho uma população com QI mais baixo ter desvio padrão maior. Além disso, seria um ajuste ad hoc para tentar salvar uma teoria que apresenta outros problemas, sendo mais plausível passar a navalha de Occam e aceitar que Lynn está equivocado sobre isso. O QI médio correto do brasileiro é substancialmente maior do que ele diz, assim como os QIs da maioria dos outros povos não-arianos, que ele tenta empurrar para baixo, também são maiores do que os números que ele apresenta.

Examinando objetivamente os fatos, o que os dados sugerem é que o QI médio do brasileiro provavelmente está bem mais perto de 95 do que de 87. Um pouco abaixo da média, mas não tão abaixo quanto Lynn sugere.

Os resultados do IMPA mostram também que talvez a preguiça seja um reflexo do péssimo sistema educacional. Se a preguiça fosse um problema generalizado no país, as soluções implementadas pelo IMPA também não teriam sido suficientes para resolver isso; seriam necessárias outras medidas complementares. Talvez a preguiça seja um problema marcante que atinge mais de 99% da população, mas cerca de 1% não poderia ser rotulada como “preguiçosa”, mas sim como vítima de um sistema educacional muito ruim. Como mais de 99% da produção intelectual vem desse 1%, temos aí um gigantesco problema, e uma completa falta de atenção sobre esse problema, porque os políticos não estão muito preocupados em empreender grandes esforços para conquistar 1% de votos, já que com menos esforço eles podem conseguir mais votos fingindo agradar a um público menos exigente, mais fácil de ludibriar e muito mais numeroso.

Um dos grandes problemas é que os 99% da população também são prejudicados, mas eles próprios não enxergam isso e não cobram do governo medidas que possam contribuir para melhorias a longo prazo, medidas que sejam boas e justas para todos. Cada um quer apenas que o governo adote medidas com resultados imediatos que beneficiem seus próprios umbigos. Desse modo, o problema tende a se perpetuar, como tem acontecido há décadas.

Muitos acadêmicos brasileiros costumam reclamar de falta de verbas e atribuir a baixa produção científica a isso. Outros fazem pior, fingem que há produção científica de boa qualidade no Brasil, apesar da falta de verba. Mas o que os fatos concretos mostram é que países realmente muito pobres, nos quais a maior parte da população vive na miséria, como Etiópia, Nigéria, Congo, Quênia, Gana etc. tiveram cidadãos laureados com o Nobel, enquanto no Brasil nunca houve um ganhador do Nobel. Além disso, quando Einstein desenvolveu seus principais trabalhos, pelos quais ele merecia 3 prêmios Nobel (e mais 2 por trabalhos posteriores), ele não estava recebendo nenhuma verba para suas pesquisas, nem nos anos anteriores. Portanto, embora a falta de recursos imponha limitações severas, não pode ser considerada um impedimento absoluto e muito menos ser usada como pretexto numa situação como essa. Grandes trabalhos foram realizados praticamente sem verba, como boa parte da obra de Newton, durante em 1665.

[Aqui talvez caiba uma pequena ressalva, porque conforme comentei na parte sobre prêmios e méritos, é possível que alguns brasileiros tenham realizado trabalhos com méritos para receber um Nobel, mas não foram laureados por questões políticas, burocráticas etc. Meus trabalhos sobre Econometria e Gerenciamento de Risco, por exemplo, são mais expressivos do que a maioria dos trabalhos dos laureados com o Nobel de Economia nas últimas décadas. A descoberta do méson π, embora tenha sido predominantemente um trabalho operacional, teve um brasileiro como protagonista (César Lattes), mas como o chefe da equipe era Celil Powell, Lattes tinha apenas um B.Sc. e na época (1950) o prêmio só era concedido ao chefe da equipe, Lattes acabou não recebendo o prêmio, embora tenha sido talvez o principal responsável por esse trabalho e foi o autor principal do artigo. Depois da detecção dos mésons π nos raios cósmicos (1947), Lattes era um dos poucos no mundo com o conhecimento necessário para identificar assinaturas deixadas por essas partículas nas placas de emulsão, por isso ele foi convidado a colaborar no CERN (1948) e verificar se eles também estavam conseguindo produzir mésons π, pois a energia necessária para isso era ultrapassada com folga pelo acelerador de partículas utilizado, portanto eles provavelmente já estavam produzindo pions há muito tempo (desde 1946), mas não sabiam exatamente o que deveriam procurar nas câmaras de bolha como sendo assinaturas dos mésons π. Lattes foi ao CERN e fez as identificações. Novamente o trabalho foi distinguido com o Nobel e novamente Lattes ficou fora da premiação. Ao todo, Lattes foi indicado 7 vezes para o Nobel, mas nunca chegou a ser premiado. Oswaldo Cruz também recebeu indicação ao Nobel de Medicina, mas não foi premiado. Talvez Machado de Assis também tivesse mérito para um Nobel de Literatura. Então, embora haja 0 brasileiros laureados com Nobel, talvez alguns tenham méritos para isso. Há um texto detalhado no qual analiso o caso de Lattes, sem os habituais exageros e distorções nacionalistas da maioria dos artigos sobre ele, mas ao mesmo tempo reconhecimento os méritos que ele teve e que não foram devidamente reconhecidos.]

Por um lado, a baixa produção científica reflete a falta de verba, por outro lado a falta de verba reflete a baixa produção científica, porque se houvesse realmente produção científica e tecnológica de boa qualidade, grandes empresas nacionais e internacionais teriam interesse em financiar essas pesquisas, pois teriam lucro com isso. Se empresas privadas não investem na ciência brasileira é porque tal “investimento” não gera expectativa de lucro, porque o nível de produção fica abaixo do que poderia justificar algum interesse sério dos empresários. Eu costumo usar o termo “doação” para a ciência brasileira em vez de “Investimento”, porque o significado de “investimento” é outro. O que os pesquisadores brasileiros reivindicam é basicamente isso: doação.

É importante deixar claro que não sou contra o financiamento da ciência brasileira, seja na forma de investimento, seja na forma de doação. Se eu fosse contra isso, seria uma estupidez. Eu sou contra a péssima gestão da verba destinada à Ciência, aliada ao péssimo sistema educacional e a completa falta de incentivo à produção intelectual. Produção intelectual não é escrever 50.000 papers inúteis para fingir que se está produzindo e continuar “mamando” nas bolsas das agências fomentadoras de “pesquisa”. Produção intelectual de verdade é se empenhar seriamente para resolver problemas reais e importantes. Por isso, em vez de ficar choramingando por falta de verba, o procedimento correto seria uma reformulação completa na palhaçada que acontece na Educação brasileira e na pesquisa “científica” brasileira, precisariam começar a produzir de verdade, com alta qualidade, como acontece no IMPA, e então apresentar fatos substanciais e argumentos consistentes para reivindicar investimentos. Sem isso, o discurso choroso para pedir doação é frágil. Certamente uma multidão de pesquisadores improdutivos me apedrejará por esse comentário, mas os poucos pesquisadores sérios concordarão comigo, embora talvez eles não tenham coragem de reconhecer publicamente a posição que defendem, para não serem linchados pelos colegas.

Talvez haja menos de 1% de pesquisadores sérios no Brasil, entre os quais tive a oportunidade de conhecer alguns, como Renato P. dos Santos, Roberto Venegeroles, André Gambaro, José Paulo Dieguez, Luis Anunciação, Antonio Piza, André Asevedo Nepomuceno, Herbert Kimura, Cristóvão Jaques, George Matsas, Doris Fontes entre outros. Mas infelizmente representam uma pequena fração, e nem sempre eles admitem abertamente a situação desastrosa em que se encontra a ciência brasileira, pois a pressão é grande para que finjam acreditar na encenação da qual a maioria dos outros faz parte. Quando a pessoa assume uma posição justa em relação a isso e diz verdades proibidas, ela começa a ser covardemente boicotadas por todos os lados, por isso é compreensível que muitos prefiram permanecer em silencia, evitando se manifestar, ou simplesmente fingir que concordam com a fantasia que tentam propagar a situação da Ciência e da Educação no Brasil. Muitos criticaram Copérnico devido ao prefácio de seu livro Revolutionibus, por ele não ter enfrentado de peito aberto as crenças dominantes, mas quando se analisa os problemas enfrentados por Galileu, fica claro que a defesa da verdade que contraria os interesses de determinados grupos pode ser muito oneroso. E seria ingênuo acreditar que as entidades que dominam o mundo atualmente (mídias, empresas, universidades, políticos etc.) sejam mais escrupulosos do que eram os eclesiásticos medievais. Certamente há algumas entidades mais idôneas e mais sinceramente empenhadas na defesa do que é certo e justo, mas são exceções, infelizmente. “Ironicamente” as mesmas pessoas que se mostram indignadas com a perseguição a Galileu são as pessoas que hoje praticam o mesmo tipo de abusos, injustiças e perseguições.

Essa é uma situação delicada, porque se a imensa maioria constrói uma farsa e finge que ela é real, torna-se difícil para que uma pequena minoria restabeleça a verdade. Por exemplo: Roberto de Andrade Martins é um pesquisador sério, com pós-doutorados em Cambridge e Oxford, com bons conhecimentos e boa compreensão de Física, Lógica e Epistemologia. Ele é completamente rechaçado pelos colegas e pelos que se dizem divulgadores “científicos”, porque Roberto diz verdades indesejáveis. Roberto nunca foi convidado para os grandes canais de divulgação científica do Brasil, embora ele seja de longe mais qualificado que a esmagadora maioria dos convidados para esses canais. Isso acontece porque nesses canais prefere-se as figuras mais “comerciais”, mais “carismáticas” aos olhos de quem finge se interessar por Ciência, em vez de cientistas sérios que digam verdades proibidas sobre a realidade trágica da ciência no país e da educação no país. Os youtubers que se dizem “divulgadores científicos” no brasil precisam escolher entre a verdade e a popularidade, e quase sempre preferem a segunda opção. Desse modo, vão arrastando uma farsa que em algum momento provocará o colapso do país, assim como aconteceu com a ex-URSS em 1991, ou com o banco Lehman Brothers em 2008. Foram varrendo a sujeira para baixo do tapete, até que chegou a um ponto em que a situação se torneou insustentável e o barraco caiu. Existem alguns poucos divulgadores científicos sérios no brasil, mas estes geralmente atingem um público muito menor, mais esclarecido e que já enxergam o problema sem que seja necessário que alguém mostre a eles. O público que realmente precisaria ser informado permanece “blindado”, para atender aos interesses de ninguém, já que ninguém lucrará com o naufrágio da nação. Certa vez Chomsky declarou que “o propósito da mídia não é o de informar o que acontece, mas sim moldar a opinião pública de acordo com a vontade do poder corporativo dominante”. Nesse caso é pior, porque não estão moldando a opinião pública de acordo com a vontade de ninguém. Estão apenas agindo estupidamente para o malefício de todos.

A hipocrisia é outro problema terrível que atinge grande número de acadêmicos brasileiros e de pseudo divulgadores da Ciência. Quando um estrangeiro vem ao brasil e diz que a ciência brasileira é uma piada, como fez Feynman, pisa e cospe na ciência brasileira, os acadêmicos brasileiros certamente não gostam, ficam envergonhados, mas mesmo assim eles aplaudem o macho alfa, como primatas bajuladores. Porém quando outro brasileiro aponta o mesmo problema, eles rosnam e vociferam contra o herege e tentam evitar que ele fale sobre isso.

Há mais algumas complicações que não podem ser negligenciadas: a maior parte da Ciência de ponta não tem aplicação imediata e pode levar décadas ou séculos até produzir algum retorno para o investidor. O diretor do departamento de Física Matemática da USP, Ph.D. pelo MIT e Post Doctoral pelo MIT, Antonio Fernando Ribeiro de Toledo Piza, que em 1994 quis me conhecer para conversar comigo sobre um trabalho que desenvolvi aos 19 anos, sobre um método para calcular fatoriais fracionários, no meio da conversa ele citou uma ocasião na qual perguntaram a Faraday para que serviam as descobertas que ele havia feito sobre a eletricidade e o magnetismo. Faraday respondeu com outra pergunta: “para que serve uma criança que acaba de nascer?” Essa frase exprime um problema complexo no tratamento da Ciência como “investimento”, porque a expectativa de vida humana atual é curta demais para que alguns investimentos em Ciência sejam enxergados como atraentes aos investidores particulares. São investimentos que só trarão retorno daqui a 50 anos, 100 anos ou mais, para as gerações seguintes, para nossos filhos, netos, bisnetos, é uma árvore que teremos o custo e o trabalho de plantar, adubar, cultivar, proteger, mas são nossos netos que colherão os frutos. Por esse motivo, mesmo em países nos quais a ciência se mostra prolífica, pode não ser atraente aos olhos dos investidores particulares, cujo horizonte de tempo que estão dispostos a aguardar por resultados costuma ser mais curto.

Feita essa ressalva importante, é necessário enfatizar que esse discurso seria falacioso se utilizado para tentar salvar a péssima reputação da ciência brasileira. O que se produz no brasil raramente pode sequer ser chamado “Ciência”. Faz-se tabulação de dados e relatórios descritivos sobre a tarefa. Para usar o argumento de Faraday a citei acima, em defesa do investimento na Ciência, antes seria necessário que o Brasil começasse a produzir Ciência de verdade.

Ciência de verdade envolve inovação, quebra de paradigma, aprimoramento real, análise crítica, profunda, que ultrapassa o óbvio e agrega algum conhecimento novo e útil ao legado da humanidade. No Brasil raramente se faz isso. Na verdade, no mundo raramente se faz isso, mas o nível de escassez de inovações é pior no Brasil do que em outros países com situação econômica similar ou com IDH similar.

Quando digo “quebra de paradigma” não precisa ser algo tão grandioso quanto um novo sistema cosmológico ou a uma teoria de unificação. Pode ser algo básico, como adicionar um pouco de boro às placas de emulsão fotográfica para preservar os registros dos mésons π até descer das montanhas, como fez César Lattes, ou resolver um problema de criptografia homomórfica que estava em aberto há 15 anos, como fez João Antonio L. J., ou desenvolver um novo sistema educacional que permite ensinar em 40 dias o conteúdo de 1 ano a uma criança que tinha notas abaixo da média e depois desses 40 dias a criança passa a ter as melhores notas da escola, como fez Tamara P. C. Rodrigues, ou revisar a fórmula de IMC, como eu fiz. São contribuições pequenas, mas que revelam fatos científicos ainda desconhecidos, ou corrigem conhecimentos que vinham sendo repetidos incorretamente há muito tempo, ou de algum modo contribuem para ampliar os horizontes do conhecimento ou para redirecionar o conhecimento para um caminho mais próximo da verdade. Não é uma completa desconstrução e reconstrução do conhecimento, como fez Newton, mas é um tijolo adicionado ao lugar certo, ou removido do lugar errado e reposicionado no lugar certo. Isso é o mínimo que seria esperado de um cientista, mas na grande maioria das vezes esse mínimo não é atendido, e os títulos de Ph.D. são distribuídos quase como um ritual, em que basta o candidato mostrar que sabe escrever e sabe interpretar um pouco do que esteja em alguns gráficos – com várias interpretações erradas, diga-se de passagem. Dependendo da disciplina, basta mostrar que sabe escrever, nem precisa saber ler um gráfico. Depois de cumprir o ritual, a pessoa recebe o rótulo de Ph.D. e começa a receber verba para prosseguir com essa palhaçada, fingindo que está produzindo Ciência.

A franca maioria das teses de doutorado e dos artigos científicos não apresenta nada de inovador. São títulos conferidos para inflar os egos e atender à vaidade das pessoas, mas não estão associados a nenhum mérito intelectual nem à produção científica original. A pessoa faz uma pesquisa elementar, puramente mecânica, para corroborar alguns resultados sobre os quais já existem centenas de outros estudos similares, e recebe um Ph.D. por isso, e o Estado paga a essas pessoas para fingir que estão produzindo algo relevante e chamam a isso “ciência brasileira”, mas o nome correto, na melhor das hipóteses, seria “tabulação de dados” e “relatórios descritivos”. Digo “na melhor das hipóteses” porque geralmente há vários erros crassos nesses procedimentos, o que torna a situação ainda mais vexatória.

O problema central é que não existe uma cultura de produzir inovações. Apenas repete-se interminavelmente. Não há incentivo à inovação, não há cobrança de inovações, não à recompensa para inovações e, o pior, há inclusive penalidades para inovações. Em 1998, uma amiga (Patrícia E. C.), que estava concluindo seu doutorado na USP, verificou que alguns dados experimentais sobre a morfologia de galáxia anãs era inconsistente com as expectativas. Em vez de seu orientador ajudá-la a tentar compreender o que poderia estar causando aquilo, ele disse a ela para refazer as medições, porque ela deveria ter errado nas medidas ou nos cálculos. Até esse ponto, concordo com ele, porque esses erros costumam ser os mais comuns. Ela refez e obteve resultados estatisticamente equivalentes aos das primeiras medições. Nesse ponto o alerta amarelo se torna vermelho e o orientador dela deveria ter dado mais atenção ao caso. Entretanto, ele disse para ela refazer outra vez! Isso é um completo absurdo. É anticientífico. É destruir “provas” que poderiam contribuir para ampliar, revisar, aprimorar o que se conhecia até então. Esse é o nível a que se encontra a seita chamada de “ciência brasileira”. Se alguma descoberta se opõe aos dogmas estabelecidos, precisa ser ajustada de alguma maneira até que fique em conformidade com os dogmas. Além de não haver incentivos às descobertas, quando há algum indício de que se pode estar diante a algo novo, tenta-se apagar os vestígios da possível descoberta! As pessoas são adestradas para não produzir, não inovar, não descobrir!

Parte do problema da Educação no país não é culpa dos professores, alunos e pesquisadores. Eles apenas dançam conforme a música. Mas uma grande parte do problema é culpa deles, porque eles determinam a música que deve tocar. Além disso, eles podem se recusar a dançar conforme a música, podem colocar fones de ouvido com músicas melhores e podem criar seu próprio centro de excelência, como no caso do IMPA.

A resistência da comunidade acadêmica em admitir esses fatos agrava a situação, porque em vez de tentar consertar os problemas, fingem que os problemas não existem, varrem a sujeira para baixo do tapete e seguem em frente, como se estivesse tudo bem. Recentemente o presidente do Brasil fez um corte brutal nas verbas destinadas à “ciência”. É uma situação delicada, porque o problema da improdutividade científica não se resolve assim. O corte de verba apenas agrava a situação. É ruim destinar verba a um setor que não gera resultados satisfatórios, mas sendo um setor fundamental, o procedimento correto é restaurar esse setor e assegurar que ele funcione como deveria, em vez de matá-lo, tirando-lhe o pão e a água. Precisaria trocar pão e água por uma dieta mais rica, aumentar o investimento em Ciência e simultaneamente reformular os critérios de concessão de bolsas, concessão de verbas, desburocratizar a importação de livros e de produtos científicos e tecnológicos, promover intercâmbios com pesquisadores capacitados, criar prêmios por mérito real relacionado à excelência na produção original de trabalhos relevantes, em vez dos prêmios políticos de fachada, entre muitas outras mudanças desde a educação de base até os títulos de professores eméritos.

Nos anos 1970, a China, a Índia e a Tailândia eram países muito mais pobres e menos desenvolvidos que o Brasil, mas fizeram investimentos massivos na identificação de crianças talentosas e ofereceram condições diferenciadas de incentivo a essas crianças. A Tailândia interrompeu o projeto. China e Índia mantiveram. Em menos de duas décadas, começaram a colher os frutos disso, depois de uma geração, essas crianças se tornaram professores altamente capacitados, que proporcionaram à geração seguinte uma educação ainda mais primorosa, e hoje a China caminha para se tornar a maior potência econômica, cultural, científica e tecnológica do mundo, e a Índia segue de perto. Houve uma reformulação séria e profunda no sistema de ensino para que pudessem chegar onde estão agora. Em vez de fingir que estavam fazendo Ciência, admitiram a improdutividade e a baixa qualidade do que produziam, e começaram a consertar o que estava errado. Um dos grandes problemas no Brasil é exatamente essa incapacidade de admitir os erros.

Footnotes

[1] Founder, Sigma Society; Creator, Sigma Test Extended.

[2] Individual Publication Date: June 8, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/melao-1; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Tianxi Yu (余天曦) on Research and God’s Power: Member, Chinese Genius Directory (3)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/06/08

Abstract

Tianxi Yu (余天曦) is a Member of God’s Power, CatholIQ, Chinese Genius Directory, EsoterIQ Society, Nano Society, and World Genius Directory. He discusses: balance; supporting the talented and supporting the innately disadvantaged; communication range; professional options; finances; love; redefine the idea of a successful life; women; individuals who flaunt or brag about their I.Q.s; inability to take personal responsibility for one’s destiny tied to the laziness; basic research question; scientific discovery and research; a good lesson to take from individuals seeking 15 minutes; A.I. or other future technologies; infinite funding; blockchain; oxidative stress; deep learning; vanity or the flaunting; mindset to a more positive one; a smart person; wealth gap; collectivistic; fools confrontational about facts; society get better at the bottom; beauty in the world; the shortcomings of the world; ethics; encryption and distributed architecture; human progress; rare Earth metals; spheres of geopolitical influence; longevity research; deep-learning systems; intuitive capacities; balance between showing off and not boasting; God’s Power; Chen Ning Yang; and maintain quality control on membership and on discussions of God’s Power.

Keywords: CatholIQ Society, Chinese Genius Directory, EsoterIQ Society, God’s Power, Nano Society, research, science, Tianxi Yu, World Genius Directory.

Conversation with Tianxi Yu (余天曦) on Research and God’s Power: Member, Chinese Genius Directory (3)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Should there be a balance between the development of the most talented into creative and scientific endeavours, and the devotion to helping individuals on the opposing side of the scale with various levels of mental and physical disabilities? Or should there be a skew of some form of resources devoted to the more talented due to the return on investment in this particular population?

Tianxi Yu (余天曦)[1],[2]*: I think the care for the weak should not be downgraded. The civilization of society is not the position of the strong, but more the posture of the weak. Many people with disabilities also make great contributions to the world.

Jacobsen: What are the considerations in Chinese society regarding supporting the talented and supporting the innately disadvantaged? Those natural variations in mental character?

Yu: Relative subsidies exist.

Jacobsen: Leta Stetter Hollingworth, apparently, proposed a communication range of 30 I.Q. points, unsure of the standard deviation, for effective communication. If true, and many in the high-I.Q. communities seem to accept this, then this would imply a truth to individuals of similar mental talent capable of equal comprehension, while geniuses, to non-geniuses, may appear as idiots, morons, or childlike. Although, simply claiming, “A lot of people believe this,” doesn’t make this more correct or even right in the first place. Regardless, does this seem true to you, as in “only people at the top of the world can understand each other”?

Yu: Yes, people at the relative bottom will never be able to understand the people standing at the top in their lifetime, and at best they can only be jealous and catch the lace. The top is often lonely because only a very small number of people can reach the top, and those who can’t understand are at the bottom for the rest of their lives.

Jacobsen: You have many professional options before you, especially in an international context, having talent, and in an era where personal and professional reinvention are necessities rather than options. What professions, at the moment, appeal to you, even if only temporarily?

Yu: Graduate student? At the moment, I am probably more interested in upgrading my education. but if I have to say a career, trader is more suitable for me at the moment. Although I said before that I like to do research work, but undergraduate degree in research work not many opportunities for promotion, may not even be a researcher for life.

Jacobsen: I remember the focus on the finances for you. It makes sense when not coming from money to want plentiful Yuan. Canadians are the same. If lacking family connections and monies, then they desire lots and lots of dollars. So, if you’ve shifted from financial focus to academic activities, what academic disciplines interest you?

Yu: Blockchain, oxidative stress, deep learning, etc.

Jacobsen: I have read about these trends in China, where the individuals do not want love because love gets mixed with obligations and responsibilities tied to extensive financial burdens over decades. Burdens in numerous areas in life. It shows structural issues in contradiction to individual sensibilities and values. People value love. Whereas, society continues to adjust to globalization, impacts from Covid-19 (and variants), and the wedge of economic inequality. Love fails in this environment. Partnership becomes practical oriented rather than intimacy oriented. Individuals revolt from this, East and West. Does this seem to reflect the issues mentioned about education costs, mortgage costs, and so on?

Yu: Yes, love is originally an act of mutual solicitation, people are self-interested animals, if the cost of love is much higher than the pleasure they can get, people will also give up courting.

Jacobsen: Following from the previous question, what if societies began to redefine the idea of a successful life? Similar to yourself, you shifted from a focus on money to academics.

Yu: I’d love to see that happen, that means we’re moving in a good direction

Jacobsen: Why do women make you weak in the legs?

Yu: Hahaha, that comes from a movie called “Rocky”, I just used that as a tease.

Jacobsen: Is it common among the high-I.Q. communities, more in interpersonal conversation rather than in public, to resent individuals who flaunt or brag about their I.Q.s? Is it similar to individuals who boast about professional associations (or professional associations that they claim to have) or individuals who they know (or claim to know)? Some will claim – and I’ve seen this in public fora – intelligence is simply the most important human trait.

Yu: It is very common, similar to the phenomenon you mentioned. Many people are in reality a loser, nothing professional skills, and the IQ community is the only relatively higher level circle they can access, so it is easy to inspire their vanity.

Jacobsen: Is inability to take personal responsibility for one’s destiny tied to the laziness, lack of motivation, procrastination, and so on? Even the idea, since so smart, people should simply hand them things in life, i.e., entitlement.

Yu: I do think that, for whatever reason, in the end it is the negativity that causes them not to take responsibility for this, and these negative factors are often the result of laziness, procrastination, etc.

Jacobsen: What is the basic research question asked in “Infectious disease risk calculation and storage system based on 3-tier network system”?

Yu: A 3-tier network system proposed for current information security and anonymization to address risk assessment of various infectious diseases.

Jacobsen: With scientific discovery and research as a core interest for you, what 5 streams of research are the most interesting to you? 

Yu: Hard to answer this question… I usually pay attention to the scientific achievements mainly to read what breakthroughs and representative papers inside the latest journals, not according to the direction I am interested in, only reading what I am interested in will make my vision become narrow. If I have to say, life science, magnetic structure, energy, blockchain, materials may be relatively more interested.

Jacobsen: You resent IQ boasters. Individuals who flaunt their IQ, whether real or fake. What seems like a good lesson to take from individuals seeking 15 minutes, or less, of fame?

Yu: Showing off can only look empty inside, just like when you say “you look like a fool” to Einstein, he has no ripples in his heart, but when you say “you look like a fool” to a fool, he will often argue with you.

Jacobsen: Do you think A.I. or other future technologies may narrow the gap between those at the top and those at the bottom?

Yu: No, gap will only get bigger, but the life of the bottom will also get better, but they are less likely to become the upper class.

Jacobsen: If you had infinite funding, so money was not an issue, what would like to do most?

Yu: First go around the world and see its beauty and shortcomings, then try to fill those shortcomings (charity, grants, foundations, etc.), and finally invest the money in disciplines that can make the world better: life sciences, information sciences, interdisciplinary disciplines, etc.

Jacobsen: What aspects of blockchain seem the most interesting to you?

Yu: Encryption technology and distributed architecture. The history of mankind is the history of the pursuit of security, of which cryptography is crucial because it is relatively abstract and therefore easily overlooked. But it is undeniable that it has been closely related to human progress.

Jacobsen: Is oxidative stress a solid foundation of research for longevity?

Yu: Correlation exists, and ROS is strongly associated with longevity. The relationship between oxidative stress and longevity is complex. In general, oxidative stress causes aging, but it has also been found that oxidative stress early in life prolongs lifespan.

Jacobsen: How is deep learning advancing?

Yu: Deep learning is the process of learning the intrinsic laws of sample data so that machines can have the same analytical learning ability as humans. The internal principle is also complex, let’s say a two-layer neural network, the first layer is called the coding layer and the second layer is called the decoding layer, input samples to train the first layer of RBM units and use their output to train the second layer of RBM models, stack the RBM models to improve the model performance by adding layers.

Jacobsen: Are there any controls on the vanity or the flaunting within the communities?

Yu: No, but generally no strength to show off will also be despised by others.

Jacobsen: How might they change their mindset to a more positive one? As they age, those thought and behaviour patterns simply become more fixed.

Yu: I have posted related my reflections on CHIN web and also admonished others not to be too impatient in the usual chat, hoping it would help them. I can reveal a little bit, the only Chinese society I am currently in-God’s Power (the president is Wu), will soon be joined by Chen Ning Yang, and there will be a lot of great people to follow, I hope these people will join to bring more positive influence, so that members can focus more on their own improvement.

Jacobsen: Once a smart person knows of their smarts, you point out an equanimity. Not necessarily an internal calm, a simple self-knowledge, something unable to knock them off their feet, as in the Einstein example. Is the boasting and the look of emptiness inside of showing off more internally developed or externally influenced? Is this lack coming from inside or the pressure to perform coming from outside? 

Yu: I think the internal development of more general flaunting is a manifestation of low self-esteem and emptiness, in the case of not being recognized by the external environment internally affected, thus giving rise to low self-esteem or emptiness.

Jacobsen: If the wealth gap widens, how will this impact the structure of societies?

Yu: The situation is more complicated, in the case of insufficient resources, the gap between the rich and the poor will widen to make the society more unstable; if the resources are sufficient and the people at the bottom can live a very easy life, then the gap between the rich and the poor will not have too much impact on social stability.

Jacobsen: From the last question, how will this change the values of societies, whether individualistic or collectivistic? Although, the terms “individualistic” and “collectivistic” are, in a way, inaccuracies, approximations.

Yu: I hope it is collectivism, the individual can only go to promote the collective, but the result is not how the individual can influence.

Jacobsen: Why are fools confrontational about facts – making a fight where a dialogue or acceptance would be more useful?

Yu: Because they themselves do not know what the other side is talking about, what they say is not thought through, only want to tell others in the momentum he is not to be messed with.

Jacobsen: How will society get better at the bottom?

Yu: Depends on the level of social development and how it is developed.

Jacobsen: What is beauty in the world?

Yu: Beautiful scenery, beautiful people, pleasant acts of kindness, and feeling the care from the community.

Jacobsen: What are the shortcomings of the world?

Yu: Not big enough.

Jacobsen: The disciplines emphasized to make the world better seem devoted more to sciences: “life sciences, information sciences…” Science remains morally neutral, directly, and ethically informative, derivatively. What ethic should guide the findings of science to “make the world better”?

Yu: Philosophy.

Jacobsen: How are encryption and distributed architecture crucial to human progress?

Yu: Removing the traditional credibility so that the people can also enjoy affirmative action, also provides protection in terms of information security and personal safety.

Jacobsen: What factors determine human progress?

Yu: Human curiosity about the unknown.

Jacobsen: This distributed architecture, more or less, can refer to electronic infrastructure in nations, between nations, and orbiting the Earth. Rare Earth metals are crucial to their operation: lanthanum (57), cerium (58), neodymium (60), samarium (62), europium (63), terbium (65), and dysprosium (66). What could future shortages or attempts at monopolization of rare Earth metals by powerful geopolitical players make of global security with more for one group over others?

Yu: Unless we enter a period of extreme war, the impact of rare earth monopoly or not is not significant.

Jacobsen: Lee Kuan Yew spoke of the world of the 21st century as one transitioning from a unipolar world to a multipolar world with spheres of geopolitical influence. Does this seem like the future for 21st century?

Yu: Yes, I think so too.

Jacobsen: Which longevity research seems the most legitimate to you?

Yu: Inhibition of kidney-type glutaminase-dependent glutaminolysis in eliminates senescent cell; Immune drivers that induce aging in the organism’s brain; Prevention of mitochondrial damage or decline in mitochondrial function with age; NAD+ can restore age-related muscle degeneration; Small molecule ISR inhibitors hold promise for rejuvenating the brain…and so on

Jacobsen: As humans have variation in analytical ability, computers have differences in analytical capability. How close are deep-learning systems from achieving average-level human generalized intelligence in analytical domains?

Yu: Soon.

Jacobsen: How might intuitive capacities be built into machines?

Yu: Information between neurons is transmitted by electrical signals, which are detected and interpreted for the purpose of guiding the machine. However, the skull blocks/distorts the electrical signals, making this technique more difficult to implement.

Jacobsen: What is the proper balance between showing off and not boasting?

Yu: Whether it turns others off.

Jacobsen: Why join God’s Power?

Yu: Because I think God’s Power will become the No.1 high IQ society in China.

Jacobsen: How did Chen Ning Yang become part of it (soon)? Did he come to God’s Power? Or was he asked to join it?

Yu: Wu and Yang will have an interview in mid-June, and Yang has also accepted Wu’s invitation.

Jacobsen: How will you maintain quality control on membership and on discussions of God’s Power?

Yu: Lead them to struggle, stimulate their desire to struggle, and make them work harder for reality rather than for IQ scores.

Footnotes

[1] Member, God’s Power; Member, CatholIQ; Member, Chinese Genius Directory; Member, EsoterIQ Society; Member, Nano Society; Member, World Genius Directory.

[2] Individual Publication Date: June 8, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/yu-3; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Justin Duplantis on Updates, Ordinary Education, Boys, Development, Reverse Classroom, and Fatherhood: Lifetime Member, Triple Nine Society (6)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/06/08

Abstract

Justin Duplantis works in computational biology and will complete his MBA specializing in data analytics this month. A lifetime member of the Triple Nine Society, he served as an Executive Committee member and Editor of their journal, Vidya. He is a father of two profoundly gifted boys, whom joined him in Mensa membership at the ages of two and three. Justin has interests in high IQ communities, intelligence, and intelligence research, as measured by IQ tests. Beyond that, he is a former professional billiards player and is currently playing in Israel in the Israeli Elite Hockey League (IEHL). He discusses: the big change in life; ordinary education; boys; the development of the child who hit the ceiling at 150; learning styles; a reverse classroom; the possible deviancies; relationship with executive positions and membership within the Triple Nine Society; developments in thoughts on fatherhood; the Ph.D.; and overall intellectual giftedness, as defined by IQ.

Keywords: Bill Nye, computational biology, data analytics, Justin Duplantis, No Child Left Behind, Triple Nine Society.

Conversation with Justin Duplantis on Updates, Ordinary Education, Boys, Development, Reverse Classroom, and Fatherhood: Lifetime Member, Triple Nine Society (6)

*Please see the references, footnotes, and citations, after the interview, respectively.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Apparently, a lot has changed since the last interview. So, first things first, what has been the big change in life for you?

Justin Duplantis[1],[2]*: So many things… I have diverged from my PhD pursuit and will complete my MBA in Data Analytics in just a few weeks. My son was diagnosed with medulloblastoma and went through nearly a year of treatment at St Jude Childrens Research Center. I am currently in Israel playing hockey in the IEHL.

Jacobsen: We talked about giftedness and humane considerations last time. The idea of ‘human first, and gifted second,’ to paraphrase you. What is the range of intelligence best suited for ordinary education in America now?

Duplantis: One SD on either side should be considered normalized education. The key is the need for even more segmentation than one group below and one group above. At minimum, 3+ SD on either side should have specialized education beyond. Although statistically the population that would fall into these categories would make fielding a class impractical/improbable, the potential for bussing to a regional facility would be the optimal option.

Jacobsen: Boys seem to be failing in numerous areas of education. Are there particular characteristics of asynchronous development amongst gifted boys even further exaggerated within this trend in education?

Duplantis: Speaking from a personal, rather than research-based perspective, males and females are stimulated by different things. This is not meant to be all-encompassing, rather a general rule. Regardless of intellect and age, males tend to be more boisterous and silly. The eye rolling from females begins early and follows us into old age. There are exceptions to every rule, but I am not one. My spouse has become an expert eye roller and her amusement for my dad jokes waned quickly.

Jacobsen: How is the development of the child who hit the ceiling at 150 now?

Duplantis: Both of my sons are in this range. They are now five and six years of age and are homeschooled. After much debate between my wife and I, we determined that was the best option for our family. They are both completing third grade work, at the moment. This puts my eldest a year or so ahead, with my youngest three.

Jacobsen: Is different learning styles a euphemism for excusing poor cognitive performance in general? Or are differing styles of learning a legitimate phenomenon, empirically?

Duplantis: Empirically! Homeschooling our boys has been a welcomed challenge in our home. When teaching concepts, especially mathematics, the way in which a concept is grasped is not necessarily the same for both boys. They are of relatively equivalent intellect, yet their minds work in much different ways.

Jacobsen: What is the proper way to draw a thread and set bounds for the educational pathway for the young? Bill Nye spoke of a reverse classroom, not his idea, probably, where students spend time learning more in their own time rather than more with teachers. I do not know if this will work in conditions with more dependent thinkers rather than more independent students. By “independent,” I do not mean bold morons who think without acting; I mean individuals who think things through more methodically prior to making decisions for themselves or before integration of information into their knowledge networks.

Duplantis: The fact of the matter is that it is vital for parents and loved ones that surround children to enhance and cultivate the learning experience and process. A classroom is only going to teach so much. The true learning, as Bill Nye is referencing, is done outside those walls. It comes down to supporting and cultivating the interests of your children. When they latch on to an interest, provide them with the proper resources, outings, and conversations to allow them to dive deeper. In early development, it does not matter what your child is reading, as long as they are learning to love it.

Jacobsen: What are the possible deviancies, the pathways, for ‘troubled’ gifted youth? Any famous cases to exemplify some of these?

Duplantis: Idle hands…. The gifted often find themselves sitting in a class listening to a teacher repeat the same information over and over so the remedial students will grasp the concept. The passing of No Child Left Behind only exacerbated this by placing a strong emphasis on test scores. Teachers now, more than ever, need to ensure that all students are grasping the concepts prior to moving forward. The gifted are left thinking of ways to entertain themselves, which is oftentimes outside of the guidelines of the classroom rules. This is not a new phenomenon. In fact, pop culture has pointed to this for nearly 100 years. It is called evil genius after all….

Jacobsen: What is your relationship with executive positions and membership within the Triple Nine Society now?

Duplantis: Very little. In the most recent election there ended up being vacancies. I advised the Regent, Thorsten Heitzmann, that I would be willing to take up post. He opted to go with alternative volunteers.

Jacobsen: Any further developments in thoughts on fatherhood?

Duplantis: With my son having to go through cancer treatment it really put life into perspective. The most important thing is time. We will never get it back so one must cherish each moment. Hold your children, talk to them, spend time with them. They are only the age they are today, today.

Jacobsen: Have you received the Ph.D., or not? Whether yes or no, what is the status of the research answer(s) to the original question(s)?

Duplantis: As mentioned previously, I have opted to go down a different route and am only pursuing research on a personal level for the enrichment of my children.

Jacobsen: How have you defined “overall intellectual giftedness, as defined by IQ” in the research?

Duplantis: To be clear, intellectual giftedness and IQ are different items, although oftentimes utilized interchangeably. One can be intellectually gifted in a certain subject without having an overall IQ that is noteworthy. My key interest are not in the general intellectually gifted, rather those with IQs in the 3+ SD range. This is where the commonality of characteristics shine through most. I care not only about the education of these individuals, but their mental fortitude in a world that is not built for their speed.

Footnotes

[1] Lifetime Member, Triple Nine Society; Former Editor, Vidya; Former Executive Committee Member, Triple Nine Society.

[2] Individual Publication Date: June 8, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/duplantis-6; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Entemake Aman (阿曼) on the Chinese, Chinese Culture, and Chinese Schooling: Member, OlympIQ Society (3)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/06/08

Abstract

Entemake Aman ( 阿曼 ) claims an IQ of 180 (SD15) with membership in OlympIQ. With this, he claims one to be of the people with highest IQ in the world. He was born in Xinjiang, China. He believes IQ is innate and genius refers to people with IQ above 160 (SD15). Einstein’s IQ is estimated at 160. Aman thinks genius needs to be cultivated from an early age, and that he needs to make achievements in the fields he is interested in, such as physics, mathematics, computer and philosophy, and should work hard to give full play to his talent. He discusses: the Chinese of today; other interests of Chinese people of the older generations; “good learning” as high I.Q.; basic philosophical premise of Chinese education; Mensa stopped testing in China; Wayne Zhang; Qiao Han Sheng; known Chinese high-I.Q. community members in OlympIQ; Sheng Han’s I.Q. Society; the answers of “slseii, slse48 and numerus”; Wen-chin su; the best universities in China; Chinese education and intensive study; exam oriented style of education; the division between science and liberal arts; English emphasized in the education; get into the top university; fate; exam oriented educational system; key middle schools; Chinese education; unlikely to do well in Chinese education; and the major math and physics competitions in China.

Keywords: China, Chinese Culture, Chinese Schooling, Entemake Aman, OlympIQ Society.

Conversation with Entemake Aman (阿曼) on the Chinese, Chinese Culture, and Chinese Schooling: Member, OlympIQ Society (3)

*Please see the references, footnotes, and citations, after the interview, respectively.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: If I.Q. doesn’t interest the Chinese of today, or “only a few people,” what interests modern Chinese people of the young generation? What interests Chinese people of the older generations?

Entemake Aman (阿曼)[1],[2]*: Young people in China are interested in online games, mobile Tiktok apps and other projects. The old man is interested in chess and playing cards.

Jacobsen: Following from the previous question, what are other interests of Chinese people of the older generations?

Aman: The older generation of Chinese are interested in chess, playing cards and the entertainment equipment in the nursing home. In China’s IQ circle, I haven’t seen anyone with an IQ of more than 160 (SD15) and over the age of 60.

Jacobsen: How do Chinese nationals interpret “good learning” as high I.Q., or as a proxy for higher intelligence?

Aman: In China, the IQ of those who study very well is generally between 120 and 130. They often get close to full marks in physics and mathematics. This gives ordinary people the impression that they are geniuses.

Jacobsen: Why has Mensa stopped testing in China?

Aman: Because the former chairman of Mensa didn’t run it well. And British Mensa won’t let it be held in China again.

Jacobsen: What makes Wayne Zhang known in Chinese high-I.Q. culture?

Aman: Wayne Zhang is very low-key. He is the first Olympiq member in China. He is from Shanghai. I haven’t heard anything about him for 10 years.

Jacobsen: What makes Qiao Han Sheng known in Chinese high-I.Q. culture?

Aman: He is the founder of HRIQ (the threshold is 146.3, SD15) association and is well-known.

Jacobsen: Who are the other known Chinese high-I.Q. community members in OlympIQ now?

Aman: Olympiq has several Chinese who cheated in, but there is no evidence. Because some test answers leaked. I hope you can contact Jon and tell him about it. There is also Wang Peng, a well-known member of Olympiq. He once published a book about Mensa

Jacobsen: How is Sheng Han’s I.Q. Society building membership? What are the tests taken for membership into the society?

Aman: Chen Wen Jin is the founder of Sheng Han. His association accepts IQ tests designed by him.

Jacobsen: Who leaked the answers of “slseii, slse48 and numerus”?

Aman: Some people with strong vanity and insufficient IQ leaked it. Anyway, some super high scores in China can’t be trusted. China has 15 people with an IQ of more than 170sd15.

Jacobsen: What was the test Wen-Chin Su scored highest on?

Aman: Numerus Classic 36/36.

Jacobsen: How does Chinese education and intensive study for 12 years differ from other countries of the world?

Aman: Anyway, I feel very hard. I’m not very clear about education abroad, but I heard that education in the United States as a child focused on interest, talent and happiness.

Jacobsen: Is the exam oriented style of education good or bad, in your opinion?

Aman: For most ordinary people (those with IQ below 130, SD15), exam oriented education is good, but it’s too hard. I don’t think it’s good for people with an IQ of more than 130, SD15, because I think we should pay more attention to the talents and interests of people with high IQ, rather than just reciting a lot of knowledge.

Jacobsen: Why the division between science and liberal arts?

Aman: Because universities need to choose majors that pay attention to liberal arts and science when choosing majors, and liberal arts majors pay more attention to recitation.

Jacobsen: Also, why is English emphasized in the education?

Aman: Because English is an international language, some college graduates will study abroad after graduation.

Jacobsen: What score does one need out 750 to get into the top university in the country?

Aman: Most of the top universities in the United States do not accept China’s college entrance examination.

Jacobsen: You mentioned, “Fate.” Why does education determine one’s fate in Chinese society?

Aman: Only when you enter a good university can you have the opportunity to enter a high paying company. Large companies pay attention to college entrance examination scores and the university popularity.

Jacobsen: When does this exam oriented educational system begin for Chinese youth, e.g., age, grade, etc.?

Aman: First grade at the age of 6 to 7 and high school at the age of 15 to 18.

Jacobsen: Why are key middle schools and good teachers the most important for the trajectory of one’s life in Chinese society?

Aman: It’s hard to get high marks in China’s college entrance examination. You must have good teachers to teach you. My personal experience tells me that if the teacher doesn’t teach well, probably there will be no good results in the college entrance examination.

Jacobsen: How does Chinese education fail geniuses?

Aman: Among the 15 Chinese with an IQ of more than 170 (sd15), none of them went to Tsinghua University and Peking University. Most of them went to ordinary universities. China’s education pays great attention to recitation and the application of knowledge. The requirement of g factor in the college entrance examination is 120. The rest depends on non intellectual factors such as effort, teachers and luck. And there are only four to six Chinese universities in the world’s top 100.

Jacobsen: Why are I.Q.s above 140, in your opinion, unlikely to do well in Chinese education (and so society)?

Aman: China’s college entrance examination system pays more attention to recitation and the ability to use knowledge. Smart people from 120 to 130 can go to Tsinghua University and Peking University through efforts, but it is very difficult and needs to work very hard. 1 3000 students can go to these two universities. IQ over 140 (SD15) doesn’t have much advantage in the college entrance examination. IQ over 140 (SD15) is more active in thinking. I think we should pay more attention to their innovative thinking and imagination can make them become talents.

Jacobsen: What are the major math and physics competitions in China?

Aman: Only students from key senior high schools are eligible to participate in the physics competition and mathematics competition of Chinese senior high school students.

Footnotes

[1] Member, OlympIQ Society; Member, Mensa International.

[2] Individual Publication Date: June 8, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/aman-3; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Matthew Scillitani on the Giga Society and the Realizations: Member, Giga Society (7)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/06/08

Abstract

Matthew Scillitani, member of The Glia Society and The Giga Society, is a web developer and SEO specialist living in North Carolina. He is of Italian and British lineage, and is predominantly English-speaking. He earned his bachelor’s degree in psychology at East Carolina University, with a focus on neurobiology and a minor in business marketing. He’s previously worked as a research psychologist, data analyst, and writer, publishing over three hundred papers on topics such as nutrition, fitness, psychology, neuroscience, free will, and Greek history. You may contact him via e-mail at mattscil@gmail.com. He discusses: the Giga Society; the point; the main cautionary notes about high-I.Q. communities; the benefits; self-knowledge; education; exciting developments; major disappointments; and having children.

Keywords: Giga Society, Matthew Scillitani, realization, self-knowledge.

Conversation with Matthew Scillitani on the Giga Society and the Realizations: Member, Giga Society (7)

*Please see the references, footnotes, and citations, after the interview, respectively.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Do you think the Giga Society has fulfilled its function as an incentive for taking high-range tests?

Matthew Scillitani[1],[2]*: Yes, absolutely. Many people have told me they’ve taken several (sometimes dozens) high-range I.Q. tests to try to qualify. Qualifying for the the Giga Society wasn’t something I even considered as a possibility for myself until I finished Psychometric Qrosswords though, the test I eventually qualified with.

Jacobsen: A question sitting in the backs of a lot of people’s minds, “What is the point?” Why take part in the societies? Why take these tests? What purpose do these fulfill in personal terms and in practical benefit outside of the provision of some fun puzzles to solve?

Scillitani: Well, joining high-I.Q, societies used to be one of the few ways to actually correspond with other intelligent people in the pre-internet era. With how many internet forums there are now, societies are largely unnecessary for that purpose though I think. The main reasons I’ve joined high-I.Q. societies was to either take free I.Q. tests or for some minor recognition. It’s not an achievement to have a high I.Q. but it’s always nice to be recognized for having some positive quality about you, like being freakishly tall or abnormally handsome or whatever. Something else I get out of these societies, most notably Paul Cooijmans’ Glia Society, is lots of communication with other members on topics like STEM, politics, religion, and so forth. Some members who have very bright ideas also present them to the society for feedback, which is another benefit of membership. There are other benefits too, like being able to publish papers, puzzles, and play games like chess against wickedly smart opponents, to name a few.

As for taking the tests, I took my first high-range I.Q. test after seeing an interview of Rick Rosner and thinking, ‘I wonder how I’d score on one of those tests.’ After I got my results I had the typical dopamine rush one gets when they do well on something and was immediately hooked and took even more tests. The benefit of test-taking outside of learning about your own intellectual capabilities and for fun is the most important reason of all: to contribute to the research of intelligence and genius. If we can learn which qualities make a genius and can accurately measure them then that’ll go a long way in discovering potential geniuses when they’re young. Maybe there are 500 geniuses on Earth right now but 450 of them have been tossed aside and are working jobs far below their ability level. Very few geniuses are “charismatic” so it happens very often that their geniusness is mistaken for stupidity and they go unnoticed their whole lives. With accurate testing, this can be avoided and we’ll have many more geniuses to aid in the advancement of mankind.

Jacobsen: What are the main cautionary notes about high-I.Q. communities for you?

Scillitani: Hmm, so far I haven’t had many bad experiences in any high-I.Q. communities I’ve been in. There are a few members with weak egos who are quick to anger but aside from that I’d say people with high I.Q.s are more respectful, polite, mentally stable, ethical, and kind than in the general population. If someone ever founds a town of only high-I.Q. society members I’d move there.

Jacobsen: What are the benefits to those who take part in healthy high-I.Q. community life?

Scillitani: The benefits I listed in a previous question apply here too but I’ll add that it is also a great way to make high-quality friends.

Jacobsen: How has self-knowledge, at least, of a higher I.Q. than the norm of the population influenced personal decisions to pursue higher education?

Scillitani: It hasn’t influenced my decisions too much regarding education. I was enrolled in a university before I ever took a high-range I.Q. test or joined any societies, although I considered dropping out several times because I have an extreme dislike of school. I would say on a positive note that it definitely boosted my confidence to know my I.Q. score and be a member of high-I.Q. societies. In terms of education, nothing seems off limits or scary to deal with for me. I passed Calculus I and II collectively in under two months after teaching them to myself, and I wouldn’t have had the confidence to do that prior to knowing my I.Q. score.

Jacobsen: It’s been a hot minute since we last chatted. How is education going, by the way?

Scillitani: I’ve moved away from psychology and business and am now pursuing a degree in Computer Science! I’m hoping I can find a stable day job and make some cool apps in my spare time so I can hopefully retire at an early age.

Jacobsen: Any new, fun, or exciting developments on the educational front?

Scillitani: There’s nothing too exciting going on aside from being somewhat close to getting another degree. I think I’m just ten or so classes away from that.

Jacobsen: What are your major disappointments with the high-I.Q. communities? I’ve had two people, recently, comment on this to me. One left a high-I.Q. society. Another wanted all listings online completely removed from them. So, in this light, people can be disillusioned from prior expectations or considerations about those communities. Many gain some modicum of benefit. While, at the same time, I get those stories, too. The question seems apt with the two recent cases.

Scillitani: My biggest disappointment by far is from something I’ve learned from high-I.Q. communities and not something regarding those communities themselves. Maybe this will come across as arrogant but what I learned is that most people, the extreme majority even, have incredibly weak mental powers. If you do well on an I.Q. test there will be many problems that you solve instantly and think even a toddler could get but when you learn that most people get every single answer wrong or can only answer one or two problems correctly it shatters the illusion that everyone around you is able to actually form coherent thoughts.

Jacobsen: Do you think having children influenced the perspective on getting things more right the next time around with proper facilitation and education of the gifted young?

Scillitani: I don’t have any kids yet (aside from my dachshund, who I treat like a child). I was a child myself once though, and I definitely want to have my future children I.Q. tested at an early age to help figure out how to best accommodate their educational needs. I’d like them to be with children their own age so rather than skipping grades there may be private school options for gifted children that my wife and I can look into. They could always be intellectually average though; we’ll just have to wait and see.

Footnotes

[1] Member, Giga Society; Member, Glia Society. Bachelor’s Degree, Psychology, East Carolina University.

[2] Individual Publication Date: June 8, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/scillitani-7; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Tomáš Perna on German Nazism, God, Virtue, Freedom of the Will, and Scientific Discourse: Member, World Genius Directory (2)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/06/08

Abstract

Tomáš Perna is a Member of the World Genius Directory and United Giga Society. He discusses: the family fight against German Nazism; the heroic stories; theology; simple countrywoman; police inspection; the emotional sense of aloneness; denomination of Christianity; the 4D-differential structure; commercial software; the common sense of quantum theory and relativity; the fundamental definition of philosophy; maths; I.Q. tests; the administered test in the design office; isolation; Socrates; Shakespeare; Newton; Euler; Poe; Mácha; Einstein; the natural or organic aesthetics of parsimony; mastery of the norms of an environment; numerical and logical capacities of computers; the explanatory gap between the human Central Nervous System and digital computational systems; the soul; God; symbolic parables; non-denominational, non-religious theism; scientific research; the prime virtues; Nature; Theologians; free will; human possibilities and natural limitations; Entities-Identity searching; Idealism; and our identities.

Keywords: freedom of the will, German Nazism, God, science, Tomáš Perna, United Giga Society, virtues, World Genius Directory.

Conversation with Tomáš Perna on German Nazism, God, Virtue, Freedom of the Will, and Scientific Discourse: Member, World Genius Directory (2)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: How did the father of your mother and his brothers fight against German Nazism?

Tomáš Perna[1],[2]*: Well, it was in the framework of intelligence service and resistance activities organized by the group called Clay Eva in North Moravia (a part of Reichsprotektorat Böhmen und Mähren). Two brothers of my grandfather were directly involved in the leadership of the organization. My grandfather had contacts and was trying to use and activate them for the group´s goals. The whole group was finally betrayed by one of its closest cooperators.

Jacobsen: What were some of the heroic stories, if the family stories can be told in a public forum, in fighting against the National Socialists of Weimar Germany?

Perna: As I have mentioned above, it was in the Reichsprotektorat, not in Weimar Germany in its concrete sense. As to your question – I feel that I cannot highlight some particular act, there were many “everyday acts” of their heroism. I admire that (during their arrest by Gestapo) they withstand horrible tortures without betraying of any person or contact of the group. It is already very hard to imagine it.

Jacobsen: As an admixture of Czech, Polish, and Italian, Christians, was theology or doctrine discussed much in the family home?

Perna: Not directly, my parents, especially father, explained to me that the world gives no sense without a deep belief in God.

Jacobsen: What was the story of this “simple countrywoman”? It has been said: Intelligence is passed matrilineally. Maybe, not so simple after all, perhaps.

Perna: If it is really the case, then I can express the term “simple countrywoman” in other words: despite her hard destiny, she accepted it without any word of complaint or some “babbling”. She prayed for all people every evening, not only for family members.

Jacobsen: What was the era of police inspection like for your mother’s father? He wouldn’t have had the kinds of technology and techniques available now. Ingenuity may have been an asset.

Perna: Maybe. I know very little about his “criminal cases”. In so far as I know, he would have had to be promoted into one of the highest positions of the police as a young man yet. But … returning home from the service everyday, there were three pubs on the way. He successfully missed them all, but not always the last one … the only contraindication of his promotion, as it was used to say.

Jacobsen: How did you cope with the emotional sense of aloneness?

Perna: Many of the very sensitive people can feel themselves as being emotionally alone. I am not an exception. However, if these are your basic feelings that are not understood or accepted, even partially at least, then your heart becomes alone. The resulting deep sadness cannot be explained out of the heart´s tears.

Jacobsen: What denomination of Christianity, if any, for both parents?

Perna: If any, then a catholic one I would say.

Jacobsen: Does this echo into any views for you, today?

Perna: Of course. In no resignation on a deep sense of things that could seem to be absurd at the first look.

Jacobsen: What is the 4D-differential structure?

Perna: From the calculus we know, how to differentiate functions up to 3D and only locally in 4D. The 4D-differential structure is a way of how to differentiate symmetry related functions in 4D globally.

Jacobsen: How is this applied to commercial software?

Perna: Hard to answer shortly – Roughly speaking, commercial software, mostly based on the finite element modelling method (FEM), should make a job of numerical simulations of some problems of physical reality prevailing. The goal is to understand the problems in more detail. The shortcoming is that you can never know what is an underlying mathematical model (if it exists) of the simulated problem. Using 4D, you can design a mathematical model of the problem at first and solve it subsequently, or solve existing one. Then you design a mathematical model of the FEM-simulation-process itself and by comparing the real and FEM-mathematical models, you can optimize parameters of how the FEM-simulations can be most effectively employed (calibrated). It saves a lot of computational hours and helps to avoid a non-existent phenomena emergence at FEM-simulation-results.

Jacobsen: What is, in short, the common sense of quantum theory and relativity?

Perna: Considering a moving particle, I would say that relativity is more affine to its mass-behavior, while quantum theory to its charge configurations. Charge conjugate solutions of problems are basically connected with the wave associated with a particle, so, without a charge, there were no wave-particle complementarity, or vice versa respectively. Thus, a wave-particle complementarity implies a fundamental quantum-relativistic feature of the physical problems on the elementary level. Common sense itself is mediated via the Golden mean, now slowly emerging in quantum theory. What is an elementary level, however?

Jacobsen: What is the fundamental definition of philosophy to you?

Perna: Oh, Jesus! So, I think that philosophy is an instrument of how to find a sense of existence and being within a finiteness of limitations and explains the difference between both.

Jacobsen: How did maths win over your heart (sorry, philosophy)?

Perna: I can only repeat one point of view, according to which maths is an applied philosophy. When you practice a philosophy, then after a little time, maths starts to emerge itself and perhaps together with vibrations of poetry within your concepts, if meaningfully grasped.

Jacobsen: How are I.Q. tests trickily addictive for you? How did you cut the habit – so to speak – if, indeed, you did?

Perna: Like any “winning game” which need not to be naturally rooted, but is requiring an engagement of a promising thinking process. You must not become a “gambler”, retrying to solve the problems that are unsolvable for you or that are unsolvable at all, being not correctly posted. Fortunately, due to a complete lack of time, I have almost stopped IQ-testing.

Jacobsen: Why didn’t the administered test in the design office state the I.Q. to you? It seems like a common thing, and unfortunate. Any idea as to the rationale behind it?

Perna: I have taken 2 administered IQ tests, 160 and 172 in SD15. However, independently of their origin, I like deep symbolical problems as a basis for any IQ testing; and I don´t like working memory tests.

Jacobsen: What if loners confuse their self-isolation or socially imposed isolation as a mark of genius for themselves when, in fact, they happen to be ordinary or morons with a tendency to self-isolate/with poor social skills?

Perna: If poor social skills, then an isolation regarded by them as a mark of genius brings only more suffering for themselves. I regret to say that many outsiders are suspected to have poor social skills, including people without a home. That is unacceptable either for IQ 90, or 150+, e.g., since it carries a leading feature of ignorance.

Jacobsen: It was a short answer. However, I’ll have to parse it into some more depth, even singular statements or opinions on each. Why/how was Socrates a genius?

Perna: I guess that Socrates had revealed moral patterns that inspired Plato to consider the deep role of archetypes as “generators” of a common sense of things.

Jacobsen: Why/how was Shakespeare a genius?

Perna: Hamlet.

Jacobsen: Why/how was Newton a genius?

Perna: Calculus.

Jacobsen: Why/how was Euler a genius?

Perna: As one of the personifications of great natural science.

Jacobsen: Why/how was Poe a genius?

Perna: Deep sensitiveness together with great analytical skills and ideas covered ingeniously by popular forms.

Jacobsen: Why/how was Mácha a genius?

Perna: He wrote the poem “Máj” (May) that is a very basis of romanticism in poetry itself. More strong than Byron´s works.

Jacobsen: Why/how was Einstein a genius?

Perna: Relativity.

Jacobsen: Is the attribute of new ideas with beauty a means by which to describe the natural or organic aesthetics of parsimony seen in some novel concepts?

Perna: One of the most fundamental properties of beauty is symmetry of revealed forms of Nature. If the symmetry is not an illusion, then it is coupled together with the least action principle at manifesting a dance of phenomena. A tendency to reduce a possible meaning of things to be graspable by rational languages can be a very dangerous parsimony substituting this least action in some novel approaches to the understanding of Nature.

Jacobsen: How do so many with profound intelligence become rock solid ordinary rather than other than this? Is it a mastery of the norms of an environment becoming ossified?

Perna: Yes, completely.

Jacobsen: How do numerical and logical capacities of computers far outstrip human capabilities?

Perna: What should I say? – The comparison itself is nonsensical; otherwise, the answer could be primitive: like a Ferrari is faster than Bolt. Nevertheless, some guys got mad and declared that they have found out an artificial consciousness 🙂 :).

Jacobsen: What is the explanatory gap between the human Central Nervous System and digital computational systems in the realm of the symbolic?

Perna: None in general. There could be some metaphysical approaches to this problem yet, but it is a pure waste of time. The consciousness condition is an existence of neurons. So, if you want to consider the explanatory gap, then you should be able to construct a language learnable and usable by conscious zombies.

Jacobsen: What is the substance vis-à-vis the soul of a human being, i.e., the relation of this substance to God and the God to the substantive of a human being, the soul?

Perna: I would have to be God to be able to answer your question. I think that the human soul cannot be self related or self-dual, respectively, because there arises the question, within which such self-duality could be able to exist to be recognized. Paradoxically speaking then, the fact that God is the essence of our souls (in “vis-à-vis” way, if you want) as parts of Him, is or can be experienced only via the belief in God.

Jacobsen: As God gives identity to me, as a substantive impression of the soul upon me for me – the persona, person, or identity, “Scott Douglas Jacobsen” – to exist in the first place, is this eternal manifestation something in which the temporal manifests as my identity in my lifetime while embedded in this fundament of the eternal? If so, what is cut between the eternal and ‘aeternal’ – so to speak, or the atemporal and the temporal? Where does this truncation or demarcation take place?

Perna: The individual identity given by God is a miracle. I only feel that God, being completely conscious of your consciousness, provides you with your individual identity over all times. Otherwise, you can become one Smith of all Smiths due to the above-mentioned self-duality. On the other hand, a temporarily unique measure in which you personally can be conscious of your consciousness can be called as “Scott Douglas Jacobsen”.

Jacobsen: Do symbolic parables delimit consciousness and permit a mental landscape beyond the numeric and the logical for a “chance to touch God”?

Perna: Yes, the richer the above-mentioned measure, the greatest chance to be conscious of a touch of God. Only symbolic parables out of any rational languages can be generated by this measure; Rationality is limited by itself.

Jacobsen: Does non-denominational, non-religious theism make the most sense of you – with “humility and deepness of heart”?

Perna: Yes. At the same time, we should be aware that Christ does not belong to any denomination or religion. If owned by any such system, then he cannot be the Son of God and the “owning system” suffers from superiority.

Jacobsen: Does scientific research play a role in the theism/deism or the God-substance-soul discourse? If so, how so?

Perna: Of course. Take “only” Gödel´s incompleteness theorems. You namely don´t know, which relevant truth is represented by those true statements (that can be neither proved nor disproved within the considered system). Therefore, you should try to work more with the symbolical solutions of natural problems (like with the wave function in the quantum theory up to its physical measurement) in order to get a perspective, from which they can be perceived as being possibly logically rooted. And, with symbols, you are close to what is discussed above.

Jacobsen: What are the prime virtues in virtue ethics for you? Is this in connection with the role of values leading to non-religious theism for you?

Perna: Yes.

Jacobsen: As Nature continues to become revealed more in the course of time and mental effort, and experiment, what can be said about it?

Perna: If you can really preserve such a great process, you reveal new and more horizons and perspectives. More and more beauty will be revealed to you, until possible manipulations and conscious lies.

Jacobsen: Theologians talk of deism, theism, duotheism, henotheism, monotheism, pantheism, pandeism, panendeism, panentheism, holopanendeism, holopanentheism, et cetera. Any thoughts on each of these while God is on the menu of the conversation, good sir?

Perna: None.

Jacobsen: What is free will or freedom of the will here?

Perna: I think that free will is a unique property of harmonic connections to others. No freedom for the will, where harmony destroyed, cheated or betrayed.

Jacobsen: How should considerations about human possibilities and natural limitations set bounds on discussion about the structure and function of human societies?

Perna: I partially answered this question. But, who will calibrate these considerations such that they could lead to the convergence of (still) human societies to configuration of harmonic relations between its members? If, for example, a constant economic growth does, then you miss constantsof nature, obtaining either global collapse in its possibly many forms, or animal society.

Jacobsen: Can you expand on Entities-Identity searching, please?

Perna: Search for beauty!

Jacobsen: What kind of Idealism?

Perna: That any idea cannot be connected with any matter pattern only then, when it is connected with symbols as the objects of existence and with objects as the symbols of being. In any opposite case, the idea collapses into some kind of existence/being-malformations.

Jacobsen: Is this sense of a non-afterlife afterlife an identification of eternal transformation as a law of Nature? What does this mean for our identities?

Perna: Your identity is not connected with the death of your material body. You will “only” obtain a further opportunity to make your temporarily unique measure of being conscious of your consciousness richer. I believe that this is the law of Nature.

Footnotes

[1] Member, World Genius Directory; Member, United Giga Society.

[2] Individual Publication Date: June 8, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/perna-2; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

The Greenhorn Chronicles 7: Leann (Pitman) Manuel on Wisdom, Intuition, Disabilities, and Elitism (2)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/06/01

Abstract

Leann (Pitman) Manuel’s bio states: “Leann was as good as born on a horse, and has been fortunate to work with them daily since her very early twenties. From Pony Club and 4H as a child, through national level competition and several World’s Show qualifications with her Quarter Horse as a teen, to some Dressage tests, a few Cowboy Challenge clinics, and the daily operations at Riding 4 Life today, Leann’s horsemanship practice continues to seek out anything and everything she may be able to learn or experience with horses. Leann is passionate about helping others realize the value of having horses in their lives – no matter the breed or creed – and she hopes to continue to grow and nurture the horsemanship community in her region well into the future.” She discusses: prospective employee interviews; intuitive sense; make a greenhorn not a greenhorn; developmental disabilities outside of the autism spectrum; narrative of trauma; elitism; and industry’s interactions with outsiders and with one another.

Keywords: developmental disabilities, elitism, employees, intuition, Leann Manuel, Riding 4 Life, wisdom.

The Greenhorn Chronicles 7: Leann (Pitman) Manuel on Wisdom, Intuition, Disabilities, and Elitism (2)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citations after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: When you’re doing prospective employee interviews, how do you evaluate individuals knowing the difficulty of the job?

Leann (Pitman) Manuel[1],[2]: So, I have yet to hire somebody who I am not already familiar with. They have already been a client. I have been their foundation of horsemanship from the get-go. Or I’ve seen them with their horse or other horses and, at a distance, been able to see their horsemanship.

Jacobsen: Is it an intuitive sense when observing them over a long period of time?

Manuel: Some would say, “It is intuitive.” It is not as if I have this conscious thinking template. Every time, my eyes are on a horse. I’m with a student training. It is this mindful awareness. I don’t have to put words or language to understand everything. There are ways of knowing and being, and skills that I have; I don’t necessarily have them written down. I’m trying to write part of my curriculum down because there are opportunities to get some course credit for some of the teens.

Of course, I have to play nice with the school system and demonstrate on paper. It is not my favourite thing to do. I would much rather drag someone out to the riding arena and the round pen, and let’s do this thing. You are going to get better by doing. I can help you do that. So, yes, how do I really know? I don’t know if I have adequate words for that. I can give people words if they really need them. Like any other funder, if I need to prove outcomes, show me the funder requirements, I’ll get it done.

I don’t know if you are familiar with any of Malcolm Gladwell’s work. His book Blink offers something I appreciate. I appreciate many of his books. He talks about the thin, slicing look at something. Folks who become masters or professionals at what they do begin to trust their whole selves. That’s a big part of what I have done over the years. It is a skill and a competence, and teaching people to trust themselves. I am actively pursuing this here.

Jacobsen: It’s difficult translating wisdom and intuition based on experience to a formal curriculum. I could imagine the difficulty in that.

Manuel: Oh, man! Sometimes, staring at the screen, “How do I describe this in three well-written paragraphs?”

Jacobsen: What if someone doesn’t have a lot of experience, though they want to become a part of riding for life? How do you make a greenhorn not a greenhorn?

Manuel: That’s the bulk of what we do. I shouldn’t say everybody. But client-wise, the vast majority of our clients haven’t really ridden a horse before, maybe a pony ride. I almost do this on purpose. When I originally started in 2004, when I started Riding 4 Life formally, I made a point of not re-recruiting the same horse people. Those were not my clients. If you had already been a client at several other places, the ne hottest thing, I don’t want you.

I want beginners, pretty please, because there is a lot of unlearning that has to happen. A lot of habits, preconceived ideas, “cognitive bias” would be one of the academic terms for it. I have got to do battle with a lot of that first. I think I have it easy as far as clients because most of the clients are 8,9, or 10, years old. They are open, curious, in school, skilled in growth and learning. It is their number one job in life.

So, it is super easy to get them started. Our curriculum, some of the core skills, I put under the heading, “Leadership.” Four or five parts of that are abundantly important. One is lead by example. Courage is another one. Those are two things to go to in the curriculum. Never expect students to do things you are not willing to do; you can’t teach something you can’t do. We do it. I learn really well by seeing it, hearing it, and being in the environment, and letting it soak it, without having to focus on having to take the write notes, study, spit it out on the test.

I’ve been there, done that. Let’s get them near a horse, on a horse. One of the other important things, I think, which works well here, anyway. We have the curriculum written down in written form with skills and expectations. Our staff know what the skills look like and what they can get you with a horse. But we are not going to make you read a text about it. We are not going to make you memorize it. We might not even mention that vocabulary.

Somehow, we will get you going through the motions of the skills. We might tell you later what we did. I have a newcomer to our staff who is a parent of a client. They have experience. They own a couple of horses. She is starting to teach beginner teachers with us. She has been certified as a beginner instructor elsewhere. She’s like, “Leann, where is the book? What is the vocabulary? I need to teach them the right word for things.” I’m like, “No, you don’t.” Some of our clients are non-verbal.

I don’t care what it is called. I want them to learn it firs.t The way we encode, the way memory works, we memorize or learn things by hanging them on other experiences. It is useless to tell them what a billet is. “What is the point pocket on your saddle?” Is this useful to their horsemanship journey at this point? Well, no, honestly, the only time “point pocket” has been useful has been saddle fitting at a high-end competition with my fancy horse deciding if this saddle might be costing me a half-pointing on one point on my dressage test at medium level or in a Pony Club test.

Otherwise, I could go my life not knowing what the point pocket was, so we try to keep it down to earth that way. Also, remove those barriers of overwhelm, so many beginners hit them.

Jacobsen: What other developmental disabilities outside of the autism spectrum come forward for some of the clientele?

Manuel: Oh, gosh, a whole range, another thing, I should mention. Autism is such a high percentage of my clients because there is funding. As a social worker, in my past life, I am accustomed to dealing with government legislation, systems, and being able to do the language bit. So, I’ve been a service provider with the Ministry of Family and Children for a number of years. That’s the most available funding pocket, which is autism funding. We get a lot of requests.

We struggle to get those kids’ services paid for, sometimes. But I’d say, “If it weren’t for funding, the number one thing is mental health.” Kids and teens with, usually, anxiety disorders, depression, etc. There are all kinds of labels that come with this. Through my eyes, they come through trauma. They’re all trauma related. Trauma growing up in a family that isn’t the idyllic family, never need a therapist. There are so many people going through so many traumas in our culture.

Our society isn’t good at recognizing them and healing them. Trauma is common. We could normalize it in a lot of cases. We don’t, by and large. We fail at that. That’s one of the things that I’ve been successful at here. “Oh, you have trauma. Welcome to the club! [Laughing] Here’s how we incorporate that.”

Jacobsen: Do you incorporate your narrative of trauma when talking to clientele or staff to normalize the conversation?

Manuel: When it comes up, yes, definitely, I have a staffer who I am thinking of in this moment. They are having overwhelming anxiety attacks. It tends to happen as a new client is showing up. They have to meet the client and been the superhero instructor. All these expectations and intrusive thoughts come, ‘I am going to suck. I am like, “Yeah, you might. But that’s okay. You are just starting and learning. I am here for you. If you suck and somebody complains, then I will have a conversation with that parent. I will remind them what it is like.”

I want to normalize it and bring it back down to Earth. One of my criticisms for my own industry and my own colleagues in the horse industry. There is a certain measure of elitism running rampant.

Jacobsen: Is it worse in different sectors?

Manuel: No.

Jacobsen: It is a thread throughout everything?

Manuel: Yes. It doesn’t matter if you are on the $50,000 dressage horse. You’re hoping to compete in Kentucky. Or you’re on the shining spark show horse… it doesn’t matter at that level. You run into elitism in every discipline everywhere.

Jacobsen: How does this change the industry’s interactions with outsiders and with one another?

Manuel: I have a lot of thoughts about why that is. It would an entirely different interview on colonialism and all that jazz. It is everywhere. I’ve worked in a lot of different disciplines, worked with a lot of different breeds of horses, been to a lot of different horse shows. After a while, they all start to look the same. So, here I am, in my muck boots, with very few brand name pieces of clothing anymore, which you could find at a tack store, most of mine come from Value Village because it does the same job at this level.

Once upon a time, when I was qualifying for the World’s, it did matter that I had the particular piece of equipment for that horse doing that job. For the vast majority of people who want to compete in the industry, if it is, basically, safe, adequate, and not hurting anybody, I don’t want to hear about it. There are more important things to worry about.

Footnotes

[1] Instructor & Founder, Riding 4 Life Equine Enterprises.

[2] Individual Publication Date: June 1, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/manuel-2; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2022: https://in-sightpublishing.com/insight-issues/.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Brandon Feick on Intelligence and Philosophy: Member, Glia Society (1)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/06/01

Abstract

Brandon Feick is a Member of the Glia Society. He discusses: the purpose of intelligence tests; the God concept; an afterlife; genius; science; ethical philosophy; social philosophy; political philosophy; metaphysics; philosophical system; meaning; a genius from a profoundly intelligent person; the mystery and transience of life; and love.

Keywords: Brandon Feick, genius, intelligence, I.Q., Glia Society, life, love, metaphysics.

Conversation with Brandon Feick on Intelligence and Philosophy: Member, Glia Society (1)

*Please see the references, footnotes, and citations, after the interview, respectively.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: What is the purpose of intelligence tests to you?

Brandon Feick[1],[2]*: I believe the purpose is to test for certain capabilities within a person. IQ tests can be used to identify people with a specific type of problem-solving capabilities.

Jacobsen: Any thoughts on the God concept or gods idea and philosophy, theology, and religion?

Feick: I believe in the light of Good. Not all people know of a God, and what God is varies in different parts of the world. I believe that God is Good in that God = Good. First and foremost, I believe in Good in the world. Good has brought us this far, and so I believe we must continue to have faith in Good.

Jacobsen: Do you believe in an afterlife? If so, why, and what form? If not, why not?

Feick:  Unfortunately, I do not believe in an afterlife. I believe my self and my brain would be no longer and that I would no longer have conscious thought. Perhaps in ways that I am entangled with the world I may continue onward at some level, but I do not think too hard beyond that.

Jacobsen: Is profound intelligence necessary for genius?

Feick: I do not think profound intelligence is required to do something that can be described as genius, whether it be/is an achievement in a short series of moments in time or the cumulation of a longer series of moments. However, in cases where someone is described as a genius in fields like music, literature, science, etc., I think that profound intelligence is necessary.

Jacobsen: How much does science play into the worldview for you?

Feick: Science is an integral part of humans being an intelligent species.

Science is a result of the evolution of human intelligence.

Without science, we wouldn’t have many of the things we do that help to make us comfortable living in the world.

I cannot see a way to stop technological advance. For this reason, science must play a significant role in anyone’s worldview…

Unless, they do not dwell on such things as human life…

Jacobsen: What ethical philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Feick:  The most important thing is that people consider what is right and what is wrong, what is good and what is bad. Let the question resonate, and over time, it becomes more natural to consider this question in our actions. Sometimes, people do what would be considered a good thing, and what results from it would be considered bad, and vice versa. People can easily do things that are bad or wrong without realizing it initially. It is hard to predict the long-term outcome of events. The best we can do to achieve the most good is to ask ourselves the question of what is good, what is bad, what is right, and what is wrong.

Jacobsen: What social philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Feick:  Smile often.

Jacobsen: What political philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Feick:  I live in bubbles. If you are in politics, it makes sense to achieve your goals. Philosophically, achieve your goals. It will build a strength which will aid you alongside others who don’t play fair.

Jacobsen: What metaphysics makes some sense to you, even the most workable sense to you?

Feick:  I believe that all is one, and by this I am referring to evolution. If you keep going back through time far enough, it would suggest all of life began at a single point, even if there were multiple occurrences of that point. It suggests we are all interconnected, but I guess in that same thought we’d be just as connected to a tree as a person.

Metaphysics… the first principle of things, time, space, etc.

Jacobsen: What worldview-encompassing philosophical system makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Feick:  I do not think I can answer this question without consideration of my personal wants, and then I find comes in the idea of ideology.

I am not studied on such matters. If I felt inspired to read about such systems, I would probably end up developing my own.

Devote oneself to nature of one’s being, to contribute to evolution as nature through time reveals itself through intelligent beings.

Jacobsen: Is meaning externally derived, internally generated, both, or something else?

Feick:  I am internally driven, although in a different day and time, such as if I lived in a world where there was no external motivation, then perhaps I would not be as internally motivated.

Jacobsen: What differentiates a genius from a profoundly intelligent person?

Feick: Sometimes, nothing at all. Sometimes, experience. Sometimes, …

Then begin writing.

I think a profoundly intelligent person has more limitations.

Jacobsen: What do you make of the mystery and transience of life?

Feick:  Life is only as mysterious as we can imagine it being.

Transience of life I will have to Google…. Lasting for a short time

It is just the self that is transient. I imagine that in nature, the self produces another self because it must… a being produces another being because it must. I imagine that it is inherently tied to the process of evolution. I don’t mind the transience of life… it’s the pain I don’t like. A feeling of ecstasy won’t last forever, but some pains last a lifetime, so it’s a bit lopsided in my opinion, and then there’s the pain of dying. Nobody wants that. Nobody wants the pain of living.

I get excited about the mystery of life. I find it interesting that in a way, life is one continuous being throughout all of evolution. Every human that ever walked the earth, born, lived, reproduced repeat, and I imagine this process goes all the way back to beginning of evolution. I’ll never understand the greatest mysteries of life and the universe, and that’s ok, because it might even be beyond human comprehension, and if somehow humans did unravel the mystery… one would still then have to ask, would that result in good or bad in the world?

Jacobsen: What is love to you?

Feick: Definition: Intense feeling of deep affection. Connected to one’s being, sense of purpose.

It becomes a food, a source of energy, a thrivingness.

Besides the feeling of what is love, I think it incorporates something more. You strongly desire for the wellbeing of what you love. We want the best for those we love.

Footnotes

[1] Member, Glia Society.

[2] Individual Publication Date: June 1, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/feick-1; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Kate Jones on Life, Views, and Work: Diplomate, International Society for Philosophical Enquiry (1)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/06/01

Abstract

Kate Jones is a “bemused and kindly traveler of this world” with a Type A personality, high energy, and a philosophical bent. She was born at the dawn of WWII in Budapest Hungary. She is member of the International Society for Philosophical Enquiry and American Mensa, and a Lifetime member of the Imperial Society of Teachers of Dancing and a Member of the Libertarian Party. She discusses: growing up; a sense of an extended self; the family background; the experience with peers and schoolmates; some professional certifications; the purpose of intelligence tests; high intelligence discovered; the extreme reactions to and treatment of geniuses; the greatest geniuses in history; a genius from a profoundly intelligent person; profound intelligence necessary for genius; work experiences and jobs; particular job path; the gifted and geniuses; God; science; the tests taken and scores earned (with standard deviations); the range of the scores; ethical philosophy; social philosophy; economic philosophy; political philosophy; metaphysics; philosophical system; meaning in life; meaning externally derived, or internally generated; an afterlife; the mystery and transience of life; and love.

Keywords: Budapest, Germany, Hungarian, International Society for Philosophical Enquiry, Kate Jones, Mensa, Russians, World War II.

Conversation with Kate Jones on Life, Views, and Work: Diplomate, International Society for Philosophical Enquiry (1)

*Please see the references, footnotes, and citations, after the interview, respectively.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: When you were growing up, what were some of the prominent family stories being told over time?

Kate Jones[1],[2]*: My parents were Hungarian and didn’t tell children much. I heard how my mother’s sister was a beautiful and famous ballerina in Hungary and Germany, and my father, divorced at the time and a classical pianist, was interested in her until my mother, 22 years younger than my father, somehow managed to divert his attention to where he ended up marrying her. They used to kid about how she stole her sister’s suitor. My mother was only five years older than my father’s daughter from his first marriage. The only person severely disapproving of his marrying again was his sister, a bit of a religious hardnose who didn’t approve of the divorce. Many years later, when the ex-wife died, my parents got married again, so I was born while they were “in sin”. Since I was born an atheist, none of that bothered me at all.

When I was five years old, World War II happened and we had to flee as the Russians came into Hungary, getting out on the last train to Germany before they closed the borders. In Germany we stayed with my mother’s sister (the ballerina/dance teacher), and no stories were told in my hearing. For a few years our stories were about the war and bunkers and no food except cabbage, and hiding out in farm house attics and waiting for the Americans to win the war. The reason we had to flee was not that we were targets for the Nazis but because my father, in WWI, had been a prisoner-of-war in Russia, and he managed to escape through Siberia and get back to Hungary. He figured the Russians would have his number and if they captured him, that would be the end of him, So he got us into the “American sector” of Germany and offered his services to the Americans as an interpreter, since he spoke 7 languages and there were many foreigners piling in from every side.

One of his stories was how, in WWI, he and his troop were in one small airplane and encountered a Russian group, and someone asked, “Do you have any tennis balls?” And they did, so the two officially enemy groups got out of their planes and got a tennis game going out on the field, then parted cordially and went back to their alleged duties. That was my father’s story. His other story was how he escaped from Russia, because his captors found out that he was a pianist and invited him to come and play in their salons. On a couple of such “concerts”, he met Rachmaninoff, who also played. One evening my father played Beethoven and Rachmaninoff performed his own works. The next concert they switched, with my father playing Rachmaninoff’s music.

It was playing at these concerts that gave the alleged prisoner the chance to make his escape. My father was born in 1894. He died in Connecticut in 1968. We ended up in the US because the Germans were trying to get foreigners out, and although they offered my father emigration to Australia, he held out for a chance to emigrate to America. His original profession was as a mechanical engineer, and they found him a job in Connecticut in a small engineering firm owned by a Hungarian. We arrived in America on Christmas Day 1951. I was 12 years old.

Jacobsen: Have these stories helped provide a sense of an extended self or a sense of the family legacy?

Jones:  No, because they were not MY stories. In Budapest where we lived until we had to flee, my parents were what you’d call upper middle class, with a live-in servant to do the housework and other tasks, like cutting the throat of a live goose to get it ready for cooking (I got to watch). I was not allowed to play with her, though I liked her, because she was a lower-class person. I felt betrayed and deprived, not quite understanding that I was supposed to be upper class and treat others from that vantage point. Actually, I think my mother was just jealous that I liked this other person and wanted to be with her, even though my mother ignored me most of the time.

The only family legacy I learned of was that my father’s father was a famous Latin teacher, one of whose students was a famous Hungarian author and my grandfather’s picture is in a museum as the founder of that schooling system. He died the month I was born. None of these stories made any difference in how I regarded myself. I was never given to feel that I was somehow important or valuable; there was little affection shown to children, only scolding. If family culture had any effect, it was to drive down my self-confidence and sense of self. My mother evidently felt that her job was to come up with all kinds of cruel punishments for me for the slightest transgression.

One of my stories from the Budapest years is the time my half-sister visited us with her suitor, and they taught me how to tell fortunes by reading palms. I seemed to have a talent for that and it was a skill I professed for years, informally and for entertainment. Because of how our lives were torn up by being war refugees, not much family “legacy” prevailed. Refugees who survived is the main story.

Jacobsen: What was the family background, e.g., geography, culture, language, and religion or lack thereof?

Jones:  Hmm. I think I covered most of that above:  Budapest, Hungary; upper middle class; Hungarian and German; Roman Catholic. My father did not profess or show any religious tendencies. My mother tried to make me say prayers when going to bed from about the age of three, telling me my guardian angel was sad when I was bad or didn’t want to say the prayers, but I never believed a word of it, anymore than I believed when she tried to tell me about the Easter Bunny. I just didn’t have the vocabulary with which to argue back at that young age. My father never spoke of such things and left it to my mother. She tried to tell me about churches and God, and I never believed any of it, either, though I had to obey when she made me say prayers, which were just meaningless noise to a young, reality-focused mind. My parents took me to Sunday mass, which always made me feel dizzy. They forced me through the ritual of Confession and Communion, all meaningless activities that were part of life I had to go along with.

Leading up to that, at age 6, I was diagnosed with tuberculosis and had to spend 7 months in a children’s sanatorium in Garmisch, Germany, where the fresh mountain air cured me completely. The schooling I missed was made up for when I returned home and had a private teacher for about two weeks, who caught me up in that time with almost a year’s regular schooling. I seemed to learn everything instantly.

Jacobsen: How was the experience with peers and schoolmates as a child and an adolescent?

Jones:  Because of the war years, I did not have regular schooling. After the Americans won, they still occupied school buildings, which left my first year of school to be held in a tavern, with the huge tables and chairs, and they brought in some blackboards. It was in that first year that I was sent to the sanatorium, so after I returned, I was in second grade in a school to which I had a long walk by myself. Relations with my “peers” were not pleasant, as I was picked on by the other kids for not speaking German as well as they did (I was still learning), and I was a little younger, so got slapped around a lot. The only thing that helped was that I was always the best student in the class.

My parents would not allow me to be friends with anyone, so I was pretty much of a loner. Also by now I had had German measles which left me partially blind and I had to wear glasses, which in those days were always a target to be made fun of. I went to a different school every year, so never was a “joiner”, always the outsider, and no continuity of classmates from year to year. Then when I was 10, my mother wanted another child, and when he was born, I was sent to a boarding school run by Franciscan nuns at a nunnery on an island in the river Rhine. In it. It was close to where my aunt had her ballet school, so she must have suggested it. She visited me once a year and ignored me the rest of the time, though she was supposed to see me more often, as I found out later. To attend that school I had to learn French (instead of the Latin that was used in the school I had attended before). German schools followed one of two systems: Gymnasium and Lyceum. Gymnasium had nothing to do with gym. It was a classical Latin-based system, whereas Lyseum was more a liberal system derived from the French. My aunt sent me to a local private tutor, who, in about three weeks, brought me up to date on the French that the other students had done for a year and a half. My aunt didn’t want to believe it but tested me herself and found that I had, indeed, learned all the vocabulary and grammar. I think I had a good teacher, not giving myself credit for being smart or quick to learn. I accepted that that was just way I was.

My grades were always the highest, which made me somewhat of a teacher’s pet. I was not aware of the other kids being jealous here (at the convent school). I was very good athletically, and that did get some respect. Being away from home and with the same group of kids, there were a couple of friends who were steady buddies.

By now it was expected that I would always get the highest grades. I never paid attention to what others thought of me or whether they liked me, in that environment. After a while they even stopped making fun of my clothes, which were made from discarded stage costumes at my aunt’s school. Those clothes had made me very self-conscious and embarrassed. I should include here that the upscale life of Budapest vanished when we fled, and for many years we were very poor.

Nunnery—yes, deep daily indoctrination, mass every morning, none of which took, though I had to go along with it in a very tightly disciplined setting. We all had some favorite nun among our teachers, also one who was much disliked. I wrote an unflattering poem about her, and when the nuns found out, I was afraid of being expelled. That was the time my father accepted a job in America, and so I was taken home and escaped retribution for the insulting rhymes.

Jacobsen: What have been some professional certifications, qualifications, and trainings earned by you?

Jones: Diploma from the Imperial Society of Teachers of Dancing (England) for passing their professional teacher exam with a Highly Commended grade in both divisions, Latin and Modern Ballroom. Won Rising Star trophy with a professional partner in Modern Ballroom competition in 1973. Won over 30 First Place trophies for amateur partner (my student, later my husband) in dance competitions from 1968-1975. Advanced to Diplomate level over six earlier grades in the International Society for Philosophical Enquiry over 1984-2022 of membership. Over 50 prize ribbons in art shows for my playable art over 40 years. Games Magazine selected my puzzles 52 times for their annual “Games 100” list of the 100 best games from 1981 to 2013, the last year the list was published; obviously, some years more than one game was featured. Member of Mensa since 1982. Oh, and salutatorian at high school graduation, 1957, Bridgeport, CT.

Jacobsen: What is the purpose of intelligence tests to you?

Jones:  At the time I took them, the first one for Mensa, it was at the recommendation of a friend to get in with smart people as possible customers for my new business of puzzles (for the joy of thinking®). I passed the test and joined, but found very few customers, even when I exhibited at their Annual Gatherings. A fellow Mensan invited me to try out for the ISPE, as those were more philosophical and I might enjoy them more, and they were allegedly smarter. I qualified there, too. I have no interest in taking more tests or joining more groups. I am too busy with the business to have time for Mensa social activities. With ISPE I am more involved, since I am their journal’s senior proofreader. The older I get, the stupider I get, and I would not want to have to drop out for flunking a retest.

Jacobsen: When was high intelligence discovered for you?

Jones:  Never. I was just good at taking tests. And my father had instilled something in me about that when he took me to the first school (the tavern) on my first day and said, “Now you must always be the best student.” That’s all he said. I’m not aware of trying for that, only of working at it diligently and always doing my homework.

Jacobsen: When you think of the ways in which the geniuses of the past have either been mocked, vilified, and condemned if not killed, or praised, flattered, platformed, and revered, what seems like the reason for the extreme reactions to and treatment of geniuses? Many alive today seem camera shy – many, not all.

Jones:  There is a bug in the human software that is more active in rejecting anything that is too different from themselves, whether in talent, ability, good looks, ideas, beliefs, interactions with others, even styles of clothes and cultural habits. Envy takes over on the one hand, and that is not just emotional but can take the form of predatory hostility, like animals. Carried to a higher level, it gets groups to connive and collude, to turn into mobs and then to war-making, ending in genocide. Any pretext will do for creating excuses and justifications for killing fellow humans. Geniuses are not an exception to being targeted if their ideas are too different or may make them too rich. The schemers and conquerors grab power, since “might makes right”. Might implies physical control and violence. The top dog may be very smart for ruling strategy, while blocking off any policy of universal peace and non-aggression. So your geniuses who don’t have power don’t want to be too visible, lest they become targets.

Jacobsen: Who seems like the greatest geniuses in history to you?

Jones:  Aristotle, Newton, Galileo, Tesla, Pythagoras, Kepler, Da Vinci, Archimedes, Beethoven, Franz Liszt, Charles Darwin, Shakespeare.

Honorable mentions:  Richard Dawkins, Albert Einstein, M. C. Escher, Richard Feynman, Ayn Rand, Voltaire, George Carlin, Carl Sagan.

There are many others that I can’t think of this minute. I’m listing only the good ones. Evil geniuses don’t belong here.

Jacobsen: What differentiates a genius from a profoundly intelligent person?

Jones: His or her output, effect in the world, originality, the good luck of intersecting a particular point in a culture where a change was needed with the unique combination of mind and vision to open new vistas. A true genius does not go around claiming to be one. A genius may not even be recognized during his or her lifetime. They do what they are inspired to do by the need or opportunity in their field. Their “spark” grows more.

Jacobsen: Is profound intelligence necessary for genius?

Jones:  Not necessarily, just enough to make an original breakthrough in the human software. It’s nature’s crapshoot to find the right combination. A total idiot might not be enough. And then there was Forrest Gump… a fiction, but with billions of people in the world, who knows how many fit that picture.

Jacobsen: What have been some work experiences and jobs held by you?

Jones: Started working 1957, selling scarves in a department store; Girl Friday in advertising dept. of that store; copywriter for ads for that store; graphic artist and ad dept. manager for another store; proofreading and document production for Remington Rand Electric Shaver; librarian; copywriter for shoe store; report editor for engineering company; freelance editor/proofreader; self-employed with own Custom Graphics company with private clients; ballroom dance teacher, 1966-1980; overseas assignment (1975-1978) as secretary for Engineering Manager of Westinghouse expatriates in Shiraz, Iran, plus graphic artist for an Iranian print shop; upon return to US, co-founder (1979) and President of Kadon Enterprises, Inc., to produce wooden puzzles and later lasercut acrylic puzzles. Mostly self-employed since 1969. Continue proofreading for authors and publications. Website manager, producer, and graphic artist for Kadon. Puzzle creator, designer, writer of puzzle manuals for Kadon. Selling puzzles on the road at art shows from Florida to Minnesota, some international.

Jacobsen: Why pursue this particular job path?

Jones: Somewhere around 1998 I realized this was my purpose in life, creating unique objects the world can benefit from and drawing on all the skills I had learned through all those other jobs. Intellectually, emotionally, artistically, even physically, this work is soul-satisfying and fulfilling. And it lets me be different from everyone else in the world with no fuss. I have the freedom to do what I want, when I want, and see that it is beautiful. It’s a strange combination of free-spirited artist and practical business entrepreneur. But nothing I’ve done and want to do would be possible without the help of my devoted husband.

Jacobsen: What are some of the more important aspects of the idea of the gifted and geniuses? Those myths that pervade the cultures of the world. What are those myths? What truths dispel them?

Jones:  Ancient cultures lived on myths because the primitive people did not have enough knowledge to understand reality, so fictitious characters and creatures could easily develop in their imaginations. When the brain evolved enough to develop abstract functions, call it an operating system that came with the DNA, imagination was enabled. Ideas acquired almost an independent existence in the cells of the brain. Gifted and genius are just words we now use to describe how some individuals operate differently, on a “higher” or more advanced level, thus capable of functioning in a way the ordinary members of the tribe could not. So the other members either admired them and accepted them as leaders, or resisted and rejected them. Brute strength was still a plus over brains. Smart strength won out over dumb brute force, and thus evolved all the ruling classes and war heroes of ancient times, like Attila the Hun and Genghis Khan and their ilk.

How did humans get infected with the idea of gods as superior specimens? Which early humans thought up the notion of gods who interacted with humans in various ways? Hallucinations? Visiting aliens? Child-like gullibility and uncontrolled fantasies? And the word spread and mythical ideas dug in to the population’s impressionable minds.

One of the brain’s algorithms is to learn what is imparted, right or wrong, as with children who automatically imitate everything. Those who knew more, or seemed to, became the superiors, the respected senior members of the clans. Clans and tribes stuck together, but at some point “otherness” became suspect and rejected. Every group developed a culture of preference and rejection, through evolution of the fit. Every moment had an effect on the mental development of each member, just as all snowflakes are different.

It’s amazing that the world now has over 200 countries, even more than that many languages, endless and different belief systems, and close to 8 billion individual humans. And at any moment, some individuals will have some aspect of themselves wake up and become active in their minds, and from that their actions will interface with the other members and drive their evolution forward, or result in destruction.

Jacobsen: Any thoughts on the God concept or gods idea and philosophy, theology, and religion?

Jones: I have lots of thoughts, some alluded to above. Once abstract thought became possible, early man realized that some were bigger or stronger, or smarter. That established thinking on scales, in effect Zero to infinity. Anyone or anything more powerful than oneself became revered and feared and personified. It’s fun to imagine, though, that some magical species visited and planted ideas in natives’ heads, just as some more advanced cultures made more primitive cultures think of them as gods. I personally don’t believe in any of those beings nor in magic or miracles. There is only one Reality (ha ha, like only one God), and only real things exist, subject to how they can exist. I pretty much go along with the laws of causality. Human intellects are still in babyhood. I’m OK with that, confident that in time we will learn more and more how and why things are as they are and how they evolve.

Jacobsen: How much does science play into the worldview for you?

Jones: Totally, if by science is meant the study of Reality without contaminating with unfounded beliefs.

Jacobsen: What have been some of the tests taken and scores earned (with standard deviations) for you?

Jones:  SAT, 792 out of 800.  Mensa, 167.  ISPE, 181. I’m not smart enough to know what “standard deviations” means.

Jacobsen: What ethical philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Jones: Objectivism comes close. I want to see humanity cure that bug in the program that allows mutual destruction, but not by self-sacrifice.

Jacobsen: What social philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Jones:  Individual rights, equality of rights (not equality of results), freedom of speech (spoken, written, communicated in any form), freedom of assembly and movement, and absolutely no initiation of force or violence by anyone against anyone. The US Constitution comes close but leaves too many openings for government to become tyrannical by elevating some to rule others. The right to property honestly acquired (a libertarian principle) is paramount. Mutual consent in all relationships. Freedom to conduct private enterprise with division of labor, reward for constructive and productive work. Social contract without cheating and exploiting others.

Jacobsen: What political philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Jones: See previous paragraph. No rulers, no dictators, no subjugating anyone. All interactions for mutual benefit by mutual agreement. No cause for envy that leads to internecine hatreds, envy, and rationalization for enmities and strife. The golden rule: do no harm; treat others as you want to be treated. Galt’s oath will do. Ethical, social, political—they are not separate things. And they are of interest and value only to human beings.

Jacobsen: What metaphysics makes some sense to you, even the most workable sense to you?

Jones: “Existence exists”. Everything has a cause, or combinations of causes; and everything contributes to effects, in whatever combinations. The Universe–meaning all that exists—operates on what mathematicians call combinatorics. As my slogan states, “From the Singularity to Infinity, how forms combine and grow.”

Jacobsen: What worldview-encompassing philosophical system makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Jones: The book I’m going to write. The key word is “system”, even if its structure and process are not yet fully understood. The Libertarians are close to it in their principles. Humans fighting against humans must absolutely stop. It is a disease.

Jacobsen: What provides meaning in life for you?

Jones: Being aware that I can think, and how I think, and how I choose values and act to attain them, and that I can contemplate answering questions like these. By “meaning”, I assume you mean “value”–the positive end of the magnet.

Jacobsen: Is meaning externally derived, internally generated, both, or something else?

Jones: “Meaning” (or “value”) has meaning only for living, thinking beings who recognize in their environment the elements that coincide with their inner and outer needs. Everyone’s values are unique to themselves, a unique combination of factors, though there may be close resemblances with those of others. The search for meaning (value) is internally directed, part of the survival kit. It is fulfilled within the conditions of the external reality, which may well be an infinite combination of factors.

Jacobsen: Do you believe in an afterlife? If so, why, and what form? If not, why not?

Jones: No, not in an individual, conscious form. Physically, you may pass on your DNA, which contains much of the DNA of all your forbears mixed with the branch of your mate. Your intellectual material—every thought you had, every word you spoke, every action you took, has left a mark on the grand scheme of human life and is woven into the future if only in a tiny way. Every value you held and imparted lives on after you, for good or ill. So better make it good. And as for your material remains, they become reabsorbed eventually into the stuff of which the Universe is made, whether as fossils or as food for worms and microbes. What pulled together to be YOU goes back to be recycled in infinite ways forever. If you won’t be conscious of it, enjoy it while you live.

Jacobsen: What do you make of the mystery and transience of life?

Jones: In the hierarchy of existence, it is still evolving as part of the energy in the Universe or of the Universe. There is no divine plan, and no divine planner, and all the stuff that exists will mix and match, push apart and recombine as its energy is able to make it. I’m content to see it as an infinite process. Someday science will have a better definition of what makes existence exist and work. Or do we want to fantasize that the entire Universe is a single atom in the next size up?

Jacobsen: What is love to you?

Jones:  To answer that, let me give you an excerpt from one of my poetic ventures, the last few stanzas of a long piece by the title of “A Periodic Table of Polyform Puzzles” – www.gamepuzzles.com/periodic.pdf. It wants to say that love is the function of energy that seeks to nurture and preserve a continuity of existence in all its forms, in all its synergy, from physical reproduction to mental persistence. After showing a variety of geometric examples, it concludes:

This enumeration is not the fullest score.
Geometry leaves lots more of every level to explore.
The essence is to find a starting point and grow,
Expanding ever up and outward by algorithmic flow.

Each chain becomes a Universe, a periodic drive,
Ascending and continuous, its energy alive.
Each step combines from previous stages—evolution’s code,
And at each step we can dissect it back to its first node.

Something there is in human minds that cherishes the new,
That sees the beauty of emerging order, that it’s good and true.
That’s how we build a consciousness, no end in sight,
And how we build the future in growing wisdom’s light.

Every singularity longs for an endless goal,
So mathematics models the Universe’s soul.
Now let us trace one further, wider mega-thought above
And call the Universe’s combinatorial joinings—love.

Footnotes

[1] Lifetime member, Imperial Society of Teachers of Dancing; Member, American Mensa; Diplomate, International Society for Philosophical Enquiry; Member, Libertarian Party; Member, Future of Freedom Foundation; Member, The Planetary Society; Member, SETI@Home; Member, The Atlas Society.

[2] Individual Publication Date: June 1, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/jones-1; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Tianxi Yu (余天曦) on Some Intellectual Interests: Member, Chinese Genius Directory (2)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/06/01

Abstract

Tianxi Yu (余天曦) is a Member of CatholIQ, Chinese Genius Directory, EsoterIQ Society, Nano Society, and World Genius Directory. He discusses: Chen-Ning Yang; Paul Seymour; the “greatest”; more serious thoughts on the fundamental nature of reality; Russell; your own thoughts; school examinations; investment; writing; a Nobel prize a good indicator of a great thinker; focus on the people at the top of the world; want to be recognized; focus on academic activities; thoughts on love; love; tests; identify individuals who can solve complex problems; an anti-intellectual; an intellectual; waste; writing; some projects; some social problems of interest; and development of science and technology.

Keywords: CatholIQ Society, Chinese Genius Directory, EsoterIQ Society, Nano Society, Tianxi Yu, World Genius Directory.

Conversation with Tianxi Yu (余天曦) on Some Intellectual Interests: Member, Chinese Genius Directory (2)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: We’re back after 16 months. Let’s continue, my friend. Why Chen-Ning Yang?

Tianxi Yu (余天曦)[1],[2]*: Because his contribution to his discipline is greater than anyone else’s, even if he is also a Nobel laureate, Yang’s contribution is greater than the vast majority of Nobel laureates. Among the scientists currently alive, Yang is undoubtedly the most radiant.

Jacobsen: Why Paul Seymour?

Yu: Don’t know much about him, hahaha, I read his proof of the strong perfect graph conjecture, it is very interesting.

Jacobsen: Why do you want the world to think you’re the “greatest”?

Yu: I don’t need to be recognized by everyone, I just want to be recognized by the people at the top of the world. Getting recognition is kind of socially satisfying, and the work I’m doing now is definitely something I want to be recognized for.

Jacobsen: What are your more serious thoughts on the fundamental nature of reality? What is reality?

Yu: I would have given an answer to this question 16 months ago, but I can’t give it now.

Jacobsen: What are your thoughts on Russell?

Yu: It is difficult to describe in a few words… When I saw this question, my brain was flooded with very complicated and huge emotions… I first learned about Russell near the end of elementary school, and it struck me as I read it, because I felt that Russell’s thoughts were similar to many of mine… “An austere soul burns in the agony of loneliness”, except that I have a different perception of love than he does, and I have little desire for it, and even rather resent it.

Jacobsen: What makes your own thoughts dismiss those, since established, as meaningless?

Yu: It is a wrong idea that everything that has been established is useful. Useless use is also a use. Although on a social level, there are high and low values, but creating beauty and pleasing ourselves has no value.

Jacobsen: Do you mean the school examinations as the “tests” making you feel disgusted?

Yu: Yes, I hate tests, I think they are obsolete. Put in the past, the test is undoubtedly useful, because human social development is just starting, and needs a lot of fast talent to meet the needs of society. But today’s social development is very slow, and can even be described as stagnant, it is time to discover people who can solve complex problems, which is often referred to as “high IQ” talent in the community. I am more of an anti-intellectual, but I have to say that the IQ of the high ability to solve complex problems is stronger, of course, not gaining expertise, still a waste.

Jacobsen: What kinds of investment?

Yu: Cryptos, but now no more investment, mainly in writing papers and doing projects.

Jacobsen: What are some papers that you’re writing to “earn bonus”?

Yu: Not to go to “earn bonus”, now write papers more inclined to interest. Because I found that some of my knowledge and insights can actually solve some social problems and contribute to the development of science and technology in a small way.

Jacobsen: Is a Nobel prize a good indicator of a great thinker to you?

Yu: From a historical perspective, these Nobel Prize winners have greatly advanced the world and have all made great contributions to the world. And creating these results also requires very deep thinking, and from this perspective, I think it is.

Jacobsen: Why focus on the people at the top of the world compared to others when hoping for proper recognition in the world?

Yu: Only people at the top of the world can understand each other.

Jacobsen: What is the work you’re doing now? That which you “want to be recognized for.”

Yu: Hard to describe, although I want to say “technology”, but not sure.I don’t know if my works really have meaning or what I will do in the future.

Jacobsen: Why the change in the ability to answer some questions compared to 16 months ago?

Yu: 16 months ago I was focused on making money, so I only wanted to think about money-related things. But now money is not as useful as before, so I focus on academic activities.

Jacobsen: What are your different thoughts on love now?

Yu: I now believe that love is useless. Thinking this has to do with the country I live in. Love should be something that brings pleasure and draws pleasure from the other person. But nowadays, there are high mortgage payments (the average person struggles for about 30 years to afford a house), huge education costs (school district, tuition fees), and lack of medical assistance. Not to mention that 715 (9:00 to work, 25:00 to leave work, lasting seven days) is now popular, and society is still in the process of massive layoffs and pay cuts. With so many burdens there is still time to fall in love?

Jacobsen: Why do you “rather resent” love in a sense?

Yu: Women weak my legs.

Jacobsen: What should replace tests now?

Yu: Not yet, existing resources are not sufficient to support a more complex testing approach.

Jacobsen: With social development as very slow now, even stagnant, what can help identify individuals who can solve complex problems in this societal environment?

Yu: Large area for universal high range testing? lol

Jacobsen: Why consider yourself “more of an anti-intellectual”?

Yu: I don’t like to over-emphasize the importance of intelligence, of course it’s more important, but there’s no need to deify it. I also rather resent people who flaunt their IQ.

Jacobsen: In this context, following from the previous question, what makes someone an intellectual?

Yu: Born in an intellectual family has been a big part of success, if not, only by their own desire for knowledge.

Jacobsen: How do the talented, typically, waste their talents, not use them fully?

Yu: Laziness. Although I know that some people may feel that, for example, the family of origin, or school bullying and other reasons, but it all boils down to laziness.

Jacobsen: What are some things you’re writing now?

Yu: “Infectious disease risk calculation and storage system based on 3-tier network system” -Tianxi Yu, first author

Jacobsen: What are some projects you’re doing now?

Yu: “Research on rapid risk assessment, precise early warning and prevention and control countermeasures for major outbreaks of acute infectious diseases”-Major Science and Technology Project on Public Health of Tianjin [grant numbers 21ZXGWSY00010] and the Tianjin Key Medical Discipline (Specialty) Construction Project (2021)

Jacobsen: What are some social problems of interest to you?

Yu: Covid-19 epidemic, economy, corruption, etc., but it’s not convenient to start the discussion.

Jacobsen: What are things in the development of science and technology of interest to you, now?

Yu: Every major scientific advancement interests me.

Footnotes

[1] Member, CatholIQ; Member, Chinese Genius Directory; Member, EsoterIQ Society; Member, Nano Society; Member, World Genius Directory.

[2] Individual Publication Date: June 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/yu-2; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Richard May (“May-Tzu”/“MayTzu”/“Mayzi”) on “More and Less Than Stardust,” “Sound of Morning Light,” and “Braille Shadows”: Co-Editor, “Noesis: The Journal of the Mega Society” (11)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/06/01

Abstract

Richard May (“May-Tzu”/“MayTzu”/“Mayzi”) is a Member of the Mega Society based on a qualifying score on the Mega Test (before 1995) prior to the compromise of the Mega Test and Co-Editor of Noesis: The Journal of the Mega Society. In self-description, May states: “Not even forgotten in the cosmic microwave background (CMB), I’m an Amish yuppie, born near the rarified regions of Laputa, then and often, above suburban Boston. I’ve done occasional consulting and frequent Sisyphean shlepping. Kafka and Munch have been my therapists and allies. Occasionally I’ve strived to descend from the mists to attain the mythic orientation known as having one’s feet upon the Earth. An ailurophile and a cerebrotonic ectomorph, I write for beings which do not, and never will, exist — writings for no one. I’ve been awarded an M.A. degree, mirabile dictu, in the humanities/philosophy, and U.S. patent for a board game of possible interest to extraterrestrials. I’m a member of the Mega Society, the Omega Society and formerly of Mensa. I’m the founder of the Exa Society, the transfinite Aleph-3 Society and of the renowned Laputans Manqué. I’m a biographee in Who’s Who in the Brane World. My interests include the realization of the idea of humans as incomplete beings with the capacity to complete their own evolution by effecting a change in their being and consciousness. In a moment of presence to myself in inner silence, when I see Richard May’s non-being, ‘I’ am. You can meet me if you go to an empty room.” Some other resources include Stains Upon the Silence: something for no oneMcGinnis Genealogy of Crown Point, New York: Hiram Porter McGinnisSwines ListSolipsist SoliloquiesBoard GameLulu blogMemoir of a Non-Irish Non-Jew, and May-Tzu’s posterousHe discusses: “More and Less Than Stardust”; “Sound of Morning Light”; and “Braille Shadows.”

Keywords: Alan Watts, Buddha nature, Erwin Schroedinger, Jacob Needleman, Katha Upanishad, Krishnamurti, Max Planck, May-Tzu, Richard May, The Beatles.

Conversation with Richard May (“May-Tzu”/“MayTzu”/“Mayzi”) on “More and Less Than Stardust,” “Sound of Morning Light,” and “Braille Shadows”: Co-Editor, “Noesis: The Journal of the Mega Society” (11)

*Please see the references, footnotes, and citations, after the interview, respectively.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: “More and Less Than Stardust” makes the distinction between subject and object, internal external. Ultimately, are these distinctions valid? In that, what makes a subject “a subject” and an object “an object,” and “a subject” different from “an object”? 

Richard May[1],[2]*: No, these distinctions are not ultimately real, the ‘mystics’ and some scientists agree. This was one of my points.

“Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature… because… we ourselves are part of nature and therefore part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.” — Nobel laureate Max Planck

Jacobsen: If subjectivities are in the universe, is the universe awake, in, at least, this micro-localized aspect of its existence? If so, can we state unequivocally that the universe has self-awarenesses?

May: We are part of the universe. All intelligent sentient beings anywhere are also parts of the universe. AI units will be or are parts of the universe. If we have at least some very incomplete awareness of the universe, including ourselves, then this would seem to be the universe observing itself. The universe is awake only when little sentient beings within it are awake, unless stars and galaxies also have conscious minds, which they may. Rupert Sheldrake has written about this possibility. — Macro Buddhas and nano Buddhas, mostly sleeping Buddhas.

Jacobsen: What makes some “states of ‘consciousness’” “useful”?

May: Survival of the organism until reproduction is useful from the perspective of evolutionary natural selection. After generating progeny we are food for worms. We could potentially have other higher purposes also, I suppose.

Jacobsen: If subjectivities are in the universe, is the universe awake, in, at least, this micro-localized aspect of its existence? If so, can we state unequivocally that the universe has self-awarenesses? As “we are the universe observing itself,” is it possible to expand the idea of self-awarenesses or consciousnesses in the universe to the concept of self-awareness or consciousness of the universe? Italics make things look serious and impactful, so italics!

May: Consciousness with knowledge and understanding of the universe is empirical science. Consciousness of the universe is empirical science, I think. Self-awareness in the universe is an emergent phenomenon corresponding to a certain level of neurological development of an organism. I don’t know about self-awareness or consciousness of the universe. Maybe … Perhaps the universe can achieve ‘enlightenment’ or ‘awakening’ of its consciousness, if any. I don’t know.

Jacobsen: What are the various levels of “the One”in its withins and withouts?

May: I do wish that I knew!

Jacobsen: How is “‘our’” separate experience a delusion in this light?

May: “Consciousness is a singular for which there is no plural.” — Erwin Schroedinger. Maybe think of quantum entanglement of ‘particles’ and the Katha Upanishad.

Jacobsen: Why use the phrase of Alan Watts, “skin encapsulated egos,” as the descriptive phrase for this?

May: I didn’t know that this was an Alan Watts phrase. I found it somewhere and liked it, so I used it.

Jacobsen: How is the universe a hologram?

May: The universe may not be a hologram. This was speculative; a possibility.

Jacobsen: How is this hologrammatic universe embedded in human consciousness too (and vice versa)?

May: The universe may not be holographic. This was speculative.

Jacobsen: Are there any other binaries to relate the ideas presented with station and state, being and knowledge, and “makam” and “hal”? 

May: I don’t know. I didn’t think of any other binary pairs. (Wave is to Particle) as (Knowledge is to Being)?

Jacobsen: Quoting Krishnamurti, are there any true distinctions between observer and observed?

May: In the case of certain politicians a “rectal-cranial inversion” could give the phrase an additional layer of meaning, I suppose.

Jacobsen: “Sound of Morning Light” is funny. A spring robin, it’s supposed to dance that darned haiku to a 5-7-5 beat, but missed the haiku beat. What was the robin thinking? How did it miss it?

May: The robin was probably thinking about the problem of unifying quantum gravity with general relativity or the cute girl robin next door. Hard to say.

Jacobsen: “Braille Shadows” is terse. A satori moment for a buddha. Zen riddles riddle the landscape. Does morning dew scattering light onto falling petals have the buddha nature?

May: Dew, light and flower petals have the Buddha nature; My writings, as paper and ink, have the Buddha nature and a piece of dung has the Buddha nature.

Jacobsen: There’s some content at the end of the book for No One with this Jacobsen fellow. Who the hell is the damned stupid, annoying, petulant, inconsistent, idiot nobody asking so many gosh dang questions? I heard he has cooties. 

“I am he as you are he as you are me

And we are all together.” — The Beatles

“The question ‘Who am I’ and the question ‘What is God?’ are the same question.” — Jacob Needleman.

If I don’t know who or what I am, how can I know who or what another person is?

Maybe we are both just food in a cosmic food chain.

Footnotes

[1] Co-Editor, “Noesis: The Journal of the Mega Society.”

[2] Individual Publication Date: June 1, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/may-11; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Tomáš Perna on Life, Views, and Work: Member, World Genius Directory (1)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/06/01

Abstract

Tomáš Perna is a Member of the World Genius Directory and United Giga Society. He discusses: growing up; extended self; family background; youth with friends; education; purpose of intelligence tests; high intelligence; extreme reactions to geniuses; greatest geniuses; genius and a profoundly gifted person; necessities for genius or the definition of genius; work experiences and jobs held; job path; myths of the gifted; God; science; tests taken and scores earned; range of the scores; ethical philosophy; political philosophy; metaphysics; worldview; meaning in life; source of meaning; afterlife; life; and love.

Keywords: Czech Republic, life, Tomáš Perna, United Giga Society, views, work, World Genius Directory.

Conversation with Tomáš Perna on Life, Views, and Work: Member, World Genius Directory (1)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: When you were growing up, what were some of the prominent family stories being told over time?

Tomáš Perna[1],[2]*: Especially, how my grandfather and his brothers were fighting for their homeland in conspiracy against German Nazism as the heroism pattern.

Jacobsen: Have these stories helped provide a sense of an extended self or a sense of the family legacy?

Perna: Not directly.

Jacobsen: What was the family background, e.g., geography, culture, language, and religion or lack thereof?

Perna: We have not only Czech roots, but Polish and Italian ones as well. Christians. My father came from teacher´s family, my mother’s mother was a simple countrywoman, her father was a police inspector, both Christians.

Jacobsen: How was the experience with peers and schoolmates as a child and an adolescent?

Perna: The best as a child. And as an adolescent, hmm, I sometimes felt myself very emotionally alone.

Jacobsen: What have been some professional certifications, qualifications, and trainings earned by you?

Perna: I have found the 4D-differential structure. Now, as the mathematical modeller I am using it not only to design the models themselves, but to control some used commercial software as well 🙂 :). (Crazy, isn´t it?) I have written one book about common sense of relativity and quantum theory. I should note, however, that I like especially philosophy: to maths I had an indifferent relation, until “she started to like me”:).

Jacobsen: What is the purpose of intelligence tests to you?

Perna: Yes, your question is a little rhetorical one. For me, they are themselves strongly purpose dependent. Like in music, where you must train and train, doing math modelling or doing any other “diagnostic work”, you must train and train… :). However, one can also see that many items of IQ tests are subjectively overconstructed or “tricky”, which are attributes not “being used in the problems of nature”. Furthermore, the IQ tests are addictive. One must be careful…

Jacobsen: When was high intelligence discovered for you?

Perna: After the industrial (high) school, I started to work in one design office, where they proposed to administer an IQ test to me. I was found to be a highly intelligent person, without knowing the corresponding IQ concretely.

Jacobsen: When you think of the ways in which the geniuses of the past have either been mocked, vilified, and condemned if not killed, or praised, flattered, platformed, and revered, what seems like the reason for the extreme reactions to and treatment of geniuses? Many alive today seem camera shy – many, not all.

Perna: Extremes have extreme reactions in their surroundings. Both in a positive and negative sense naturally. However, if geniuses demonstrate some superiority and pride towards others, their (either implicit or explicit) isolation is then a healthy phenomenon, evidently deserved by them.

Jacobsen: Who seems like the greatest geniuses in history to you?

Perna: Socrates, Shakespeare, Newton, Euler, Galois, Poe, Mácha, Einstein…

Jacobsen: What differentiates a genius from a profoundly intelligent person?

Perna: Original new ideas possessing beauty.

Jacobsen: Is profound intelligence necessary for genius?

Perna: Yes, one should not consider idiotic geniuses. But profound intelligence can be owned also by “simple”, not particularly educated persons, who are not geniuses.

Jacobsen: What have been some work experiences and jobs held by you?

Perna: I think that I have partially answered this question above. One´s loneliness (“we don´t understand neither it, nor you, but do it!”) could have a devastating effect. Financially as well. Everything is a matter of course in the job, automatically quickly solvable, so why money for such a guy? He (she of course too) is after all not hard working like We (!) are…

Jacobsen: Why pursue this particular job path?

Perna: One feels not only its sense, but it satisfies one’s curiosity as well.

Jacobsen: What are some of the more important aspects of the idea of the gifted and geniuses? Those myths that pervade the cultures of the world. What are those myths? What truths dispel them?

Perna: Possessing a finer mental and emotional charge to perceive a common sense. The myths are connected (about geniuses you mean?) with tendencies to assign the genius properties which can be substituted by properties of artificial intelligence. For example, extreme computational abilities, extreme memory, etc.  You have, roughly speaking, 3 levels of problem solving. – Numerical, logical and symbolical. Machine has a chance to find the pattern in the first two levels. The third level with patterns requiring a very deep sense of feeling and understanding is unreachable for it. Therefore, the genius should be attracted by the symbolic level first of all.

Jacobsen: Any thoughts on the God concept or gods idea and philosophy, theology, and religion?

Perna: God is the very substance of the soul of human being. He provides you with your own identity, as being Scott Jacobsen e.g. 🙂 now, namely within the framework of your eternal manifestations. As to philosophy and theology: I am persuaded that without symbolic parables you have no chance to touch God at all by any language. Concerning religion, the role of humility and deepness of the heart should be the leading features. However, being gifted by these properties, you leave all religions to serve God directly.

Jacobsen: How much does science play into the worldview for you?

Perna: If science, then profound.

Jacobsen: What have been some of the tests taken and scores earned (with standard deviations) for you?

Perna: RAPM 35/36. Then max score of 160 sd15 in one Czech-Mensa supertest, designed specially for persons with IQ 140+. Then 170+ in Tonny Sellen´s Spat1, 180 in one test designed by the professional psychologist and 190 in Betts ZEN. Also some lower scores in more “schulmeistern” tests, mostly 135-150 (working memory requiring, but sometimes only very simple ideas extended within big space).

Jacobsen: What ethical philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Perna: Virtue ethics, I could say. Any action trying to reach harmonic connections.

Jacobsen: What social philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Perna: Any interpretation of a collective or society in terms of free will applied within harmonical possibilities and limitations of the revealed nature.

Jacobsen: What political philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Perna: None.

Jacobsen: What metaphysics makes some sense to you, even the most workable sense to you?

Perna: Entities-Identity searching.

Jacobsen: What worldview-encompassing philosophical system makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Perna: Idealism.

Jacobsen: What provides meaning in life for you?

Perna: To serve in the sense of an engaged compassion.

Jacobsen: Is meaning externally derived, internally generated, both, or something else?

Perna: The sense of life is inherently presented in the human´s soul. Meaning of anything that exists should be searched in a connection with this sense. Such an action will find then its form of internal and external manifestations within duality-phenomena especially.

Jacobsen: Do you believe in an afterlife? If so, why, and what form? If not, why not?

Perna: Yes. Or more expressively said: there is no afterlife, since life can not evolve towards its end called the death. This would be an existential contradiction and therefore as a nonsense immediately destroyed in a furnace of entropy.

Jacobsen: What do you make of the mystery and transience of life?

Perna: Allow me to say that I am convinced (as indicated above) that transience of life is transient sub specie aeternitatis. To avoid a cliche, I accent simultaneously that moments of eternity can be directly perceived via a beauty felt as involving a mystery of life, which is for me the Presence of God in everyone.

Jacobsen: What is love to you?

Perna: What I desire to give and to get more than anything else.

Footnotes

[1] Member, World Genius Directory; Member, United Giga Society.

[2] Individual Publication Date: June 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/perna-1; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Dr. Ricardo Rosselló Nevares on Policies in Governance, Negotiation, Faith and Science, and Fatherhood: Former Governor, Puerto Rico (5)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/06/01

Abstract

Ricardo Rosselló Nevares holds a PhD in Bioengineering and Biotechnology. He graduated from Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) with a Bachelor’s degree in Chemistry and Biomedical Engineering with a concentration in Developmental Economics. Rosselló continued his academic studies at the University of Michigan, where he completed a master’s degree and a PhD in Bioengineering and Biotechnology. After finalizing his doctoral studies, he completed post-doctoral studies in neuroscience at Duke University, in North Carolina, where he also served as an investigator. Dr. Rosselló was a tenure track assistant professor for the University of Puerto Rico Medical Sciences Campus and Metropolitan University, teaching courses in medicine, immunology, and biochemistry. Dr. Rosselló’s scientific background and training also makes him an expert in important developing areas such as genetic manipulation and engineering, stem cells, viral manipulation, cancer, tissue engineering and smart materials. He discusses: progressive moves; the status of Roman Catholicism amongst the population; a man of science and a man of faith; and being a father.

Keywords: faith, fatherhood, governance, Puerto Rico, Ricardo Rosselló Nevares, science.

Conversation with Dr. Ricardo Rosselló Nevares on Policies in Governance, Negotiation, Faith and Science, and Fatherhood: Former Governor, Puerto Rico (5)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

*Interview conducted January 21, 2021.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: You mentioned equal pay for equal work. You did work for LGBT+ issues while in office. What were some of these other progressive moves that were not necessarily part of institutionalized culture prior to your government?

Dr. Ricardo Rosselló Nevares[1],[2]*: Here’s a reality. The parties in Puerto Rico are different than others in the United States. If you were trying to superimpose your Canadian system into the United States, there would be things that are similar and things that are different. Even though, we are part of the United States. And it’s not that different. It is still different. One difference, my party tends to be more conservative. Although, if somebody had to describe me, they’d describe me centre-left, probably.

Where I think it misguided analysis, anyway, how I see myself, I am fiscally conservative. I was very much a fiscal hawk. Not because I like to cut or not to spend, but because the initial conditions in Puerto Rico demanded it. By the same token, I felt Puerto Rico was very behind on the times in terms of equal rights. My argument, which I must confess was not successful verbalizing it effectively, was, “Statehooders such as ourselves. Our main argument is that we want equal rights. How can we not? Equal rights can’t be for one thing and not for another. It is conceptual. How can you be for equal rights and then not be for equal rights for women, for example, or for equal pay or for equal rights for LGBTQ?”

I’m not going to say it was smooth. My views evolved throughout the whole process. To give you a few examples of policy, I put into plan for Puerto Rico the elimination of conversion therapies. Everybody signed it. Because they weren’t even looking at it. Their oath was already there. At the beginning, they went with it. Then they started to battle it a little bit. We created a bill. We sent it out to the House and the Senate. It didn’t pass.

So, I looked for the best legal minds I could find and said, “Can I do this by Executive Order?” While it is not as strong, it, certainly, was stronger. I made 13 policy promises for the LGBTQ community and 13 policy promises for the faith-based community. Bear with me for a second, here’s how I made them, I think my story is a convoluted story of success and failure because the success in actually doing all of this was saying, “Okay.” This is from what I told you a little bit about seeing people divided and not knowing why they are divided.

I went to sit people at the table. I took leaders from the LGBTQ community and the faith communities. I said, “Hey, you might not agree with some of these things. But which of these things can you live with? What can you not live with? What do you need on your side?” Try to hash those things. It seems like an incremental approach, but it was working. From my 2.5 years in office, I fulfilled 11 of the 13 for the LGBTQ community and, I think, 10 out of the 13 for the faith-based communities.

The problem was that as we were making progress with everything; they wanted more. Each community wanted more, naturally. Then it became a fist-fight. So, here’s what happened, I sent the bill over to the Senate and the House. They declined it. I signed the executive order. Immediately, they decided to create a bill over there that’s a restrictive abortion bill. Not part of our plan, nowhere near it.

Very much, they knew it was against my vision with this anyways. We weren’t going to tackle it one way or another. I think Puerto Rico had a pretty liberal position relative to the States, at least, with abortion. They wanted to restrict it. It was like a response to me on the other side. They passed the bill. They sent it to me. I veto it. You see all of these things. It starts getting angry. A lot of these folks are the base of my party. I’m actually, on principle, fighting for some of the things that I had agreed upon for a community.

It’s the truth. I was not likely to get the majority of the votes because of the party I was from.

But in the list of things, we created the first LGBTQ council for the governors that would establish policy. We changed – on LGBTQ off the top of my head – the administrative actions for equal treatment on most of the agencies, including healthcare. We established civil rights training on LGBTQ for the police and other forces. There were housing projects that were initiated. One of my concerns was the elderly LGBTQ community. It was sort of a niche. They had to go through the harder times – let’s put it that way. It is still very challenging. Many of them were alone. We were trying to create these concepts of housing for LGBTQ elderly. There was a no bullying policy as well.

We created a pilot program called “The Co-Educational Schools.” Let me step back, my policy in Puerto Rico was to establish a choice schooling system within the island. The reason is: The educational system in Puerto Rico has collapsed. The way I saw it. It’s not that I necessarily want or don’t want private or other sectors in it. We needed to shake the system up, somehow. We open it up, Charters come in.

These co-educational schools come in, which mean, essentially, that they teach without assigning gender roles to work. It is unfortunate. It is true. In schools, at least when I was there, they would think about an engineer as a guy; when they think about cooking, they would think of a girl. These schools are designed as a pilot program of 20 schools across the island to break them completely.

On the other side, we allowed the churches to be part of what are called school churches, which is, essentially, a Catholic school or a Protestant school. But it is part of the educational system. Then you would allow parents to go wherever they wanted, where they chose the place for the kids. That is another policy. Being able to adopt for LGBTQ couples who went through our administration, being able to change your birth certificate for trans, those are, in general, off the top of my head, policies.

It was driven by the idea of having an LGBTQ council. I did the same with women. I created a women’s council. I’m a man. I think I know some of the things. I’m sure I am missing others. I am sure I am missing other things I am not feeling; I need their advice to guide policy moving forward. A lot of it came from those two councils. Those are some of the policies. Of course, the vetoing of the abortion restriction bill was a big one.

They almost went over the veto. They missed by one vote. But they almost passed that, as a rage response after some of the other things that were happening. While getting people together worked for me, in establishing policy, it also inevitably created this chaotic environment at the end. Where, if you moved an inch for somebody else, they would see it as an attack on their essence. Both sides would battle it out. I ended up being attacked by both sides.

That’s the cautionary tale. I would still do it that way, as I think that is the way to do it. I wouldn’t have as much hubris as I had – of thinking I could manage it. There are some things that can spiral out of control. As you said, you need to be more vigilant and not think that you can solve everything.

Jacobsen: Going to these Catholic schools as a youngster, what is the status of Roman Catholicism amongst the population, amongst the hierarchs there, as you’re growing up compared to now? Also, many of these positions would seem boiler plate against many of the standard positions of the hierarchs of the church. I understand there are some differences, sometimes vast, between hierarchs and the laity.

Nevares: I consider myself a man of faith and a man of science. This is something I bring to the equation. I don’t think those two points contradict themselves. I think that science allows us to keep looking forward. Similar to an ant in my backyard not knowing Africa exists and has no idea. There are physiological limitations to our brain capacity. They’re likely to enhance as time moves into the future, if we’re sustainable as humanity.

I respect religion. I see the downfalls of it as well. I respect people having faith and diversity in faith. I was never very much too in tune with just being a Catholic or not. It was the school I went to; my parents didn’t really thrust it upon me, either. I was very independent, luckily, with that sort of thing. So, yes, a lot of positions that I took would fly against the establishment, with those things.

Particularly, my origin from a more conservative-leaning party. The thing is, the conservative nature was more on the fiscal and economic rather than on the social. However, I was open about it. Even though, I confess some of these views evolved. You could get angry at it, but you knew where I was going. It was not just said, but written in a document. I said what I wanted to do. My naïve mentality was that there are some things that both faith-based community and LGBTQ are at odds with, but there is a lot of space where we can progress.

At least, let’s get those out of the way, in Puerto Rico, the Catholicism now compared to then; I can’t give you the numbers. I can recall a Time magazine article that was stunning to me. It shows where Catholicism was growing in the world. Some countries in Africa had the most growth. It was dipping the most in some places. Puerto Rico had like a 23% dip if memory serves, in a span of 20 years.

The reason: Puerto Rico opened a lot of Evangelical churches as well. Obviously, aligned with Christianity, but not with Catholicism, I would say Catholicism has dwindled while these other churches have dwindled. There is, particularly among the young, a growing number of folks who identify as either atheists or agnostics. It is, certainly, more diverse.

Again, the Catholic upbringing, before we were the U.S. colony, we were a Spanish colony. Catholicism was baked into it. Yes, it has fallen down. But again, there’s the environment right now, which is similar to the States. It is unfortunate. Sometimes, you have these two sides metaphorically killing each other, where the vast majority of people on a non-charged situation would agree with a lot of the policy. I’ll give you an example.

I think on a neutral basis. 90% of the people in Puerto Rico would agree with me: Conversion therapy needed to be prohibited. I think, by the same token, 90% of the people believe in religious freedoms. The detail is how you define it, of course. The way I define it. We have a diversified faith-based community in Puerto Rico. We have Muslims. We have Jewish faith. We have Evangelicals and Catholics. One of the activities made after Hurricane Maria. We had all of them represented.

The idea behind that concept of religious freedom was more directed to the following: “Nobody can discriminate against you because of your faith.” Not the other side, “Hey, I can’t bake a cake for you.”

Jacobsen: [Laughing] I remember that.

Nevares: I think 90% of the people would agree. When put into a head of these sides, they become these symbolic victories to either avoid or moved forward some of these things. It gets murky and problematic.

Jacobsen: Now, you consider yourself a man of science and a man of faith. What are the attributes of God?

Nevares: It’s simple. It’s just, “I don’t know.” For me, it’s as challenging to claim there is a bearded man in the clouds as to claim there is absolutely nothing; and it’s just randomness. Could be, I’m not saying they’re not. I’m saying, “I don’t have the foresight or the wherewithal to make those claims. What I do see is there is complexity in the universe, we don’t understand most of it. So, do I think it’s a man who is pulling the strings? Probably not. Do I think there are other forces, which we don’t fully grasp now and might explain or might never understand like consciousness, and so forth? My position: I assume there is a purpose. I don’t think about it necessarily in terms of an afterlife or gods. I just say, “I have faith in that broad definition of what that means to me. That I can’t claim that I understand everything. I can’t claim everything is deterministic, which may or may not be true.”

I do not claim, taking the analogy of the ant, the emergent properties of our consciousness – right now, to us, is the apex in terms of what we analyze. Why should we think rational or logical thinking or scientific thinking, or the analytical basis, is the top tier and the defining element of it all? Again, it’s not taking anything away from science. I think science, as we have been discussing, is a necessary tool to evaluate everything. As with everything, it has its limitations. A lot of it spawned from Newton and his approximations.

Then Einstein made it better, more broad. Yet, Newton’s approximations really run 99.9% of the world around us. I’m saying, in order to achieve some of these higher questions, “I don’t know if some of the tools that we have now are sufficient to get good answers to that.” Obviously, some of those questions are the questions of consciousness, the questions of purpose, afterlife, ‘gods’ if you will.” It is an open-ended book. I see it as something exciting. It is exciting to know and to not know, as there is still a lot to figure out and still a lot to identify.

That’s more or less my worldview. You see it like an onion. You keep peeling layers and information keeps coming. I’ll give an example. I worked on the Human Genome Project, when it was starting at MIT. We thought that we had the road map for humanity. “That’s it! We have the genes. We will be able to solve everything else.” There is a lot more complexity now. You have your proteome. You have interactions. You have junk DNA. All these other things, we are trying to decode that.

We’re figuring out ways to decode all of that. If you ask me, my sense in seeing what has transpired in just my lifetime. We’ve been able to enhance the coding significantly in your and my lifetime. Not to say, in 30 years, we’ll have this conversation, “Wow! Those things talked about back then were outdated and obsolete.” My hunch says, “We’re in an accelerated pace of these things happening with artificial intelligence, with genetic engineering, climate change and the necessity to innovate with it, space travel. Things are going to take a quantum leap forward and have novel systems to survey the landscape.”

Jacobsen: You mentioned having early warnings, then having a gap, then having a late morning for work. What does being a father mean for you?

Nevares: It is a blessing. I’ll tell you. I confess like every father. When you’re in the middle of it, it is grinding.

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Nevares: It is tough. From my perspective, when I ran for governor, I had my baby girl in 2014. I was already on the road 20 hours a day. Then I had my son. My wife was pregnant the hurricane came. She was 7 months pregnant when it came. I, practically, never saw them. The silver lining to all of this. You try to make sense and think about the good things that you have as well. I have been able to spend more time as a father. It’s not all rosy all of the time. It is frustrating right before.

Today, I woke up at 4 in the morning. I did some work. Then my kids wake up, then I’m with them for a little bit. My daughter has class. Today, the first part of the class, I wanted to be with her. She’s in first grade. The attention span of not only her, but all the other first graders is impossible to teach a class to first graders. I don’t know how they do it, but God bless a teacher’s patience. I cherish it.

You see – with kids – all of this potential. To me, again, even though, the world is getting more complicated in all these things. I think my role as a parent is just to help them identify something that makes them happy, lead them, give them advice. My eventual goal is, whether it be becoming a scientist or becoming a painter or a dancer or a builder – whatever they want to be, to try to lead them to make their own decisions and to be happy.

I think the two areas, which I think are most important. Which is sort of in the face of traditional education, two qualities that I see that are very important for humanity moving forward is your capacity to adjust to a lot of the changes. Parallel to that, your ability to critically think, to learn and to unlearn. It is weird. I don’t think that was said 40 years ago. But one’s capacity to unlearn is almost as important as one’s capacity to learn because of all of the changes occurring. They are good kids. I am enjoying tis time. Whatever happens, I hope they can lead happy lives. That’s really the crux of it.

Footnotes

[1] Former Governor, Puerto Rico.

[2] Individual Publication Date: June 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/rossello-5; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

The Greenhorn Chronicles 6: Sandy Bell, B.Sc., M.A. on Windhorse Retreat, Horse Sense, and Resources (2)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/06/01

Abstract

Sandy Bell’s personal biography states: “Windhorse Retreat was born in early 2014 when I transitioned from the urban to the rural lifestyle to pursue my dream of living with horses and offering equine facilitated personal development.  My goal was to establish Windhorse as a place where ‘horses help us reach our full potential,’ and that included my own life-long learning.  At my day retreat in central Alberta, horses and humans come together in deeply meaningful ways for unique learning experiences.  As well as providing equine assisted learning opportunities with horses as your guides, I host related workshops and clinics, so you can learn to help your equine friends or deepen your relationships with them. Community development and volunteerism is core to my lifestyle, so you’ll find me volunteering on committees or boards as the opportunities arise.  Currently, I serve the Alberta equestrian community as the President of the Board of Directors of the Alberta Equestrian Federation. I hold a B.Sc. (Psychology), a M.A. (Communications & Technology) and am an alumnus of EAL-Canada.  I’m a member of the Alberta Association of Complementary Equine Therapy as a Craniosacral Practitioner and Energy Based Practitioner.” She discusses: Windhorse Retreat; Covid impacting the industry; some misconceptions about the economic feasibility of owning horses or having a facility; the equestrian world of a century ago compared to now; gigantic puppy-dogs; horse sense; elected president; separation economically in Canadian society; books, documentaries, or interviews; and final thoughts.

Keywords: Alberta, Alberta Equestrian Federation, equestrianism, Ian Millar, Sandy Bell, Windhorse Retreat.

The Greenhorn Chronicles 6: Sandy Bell, B.Sc., M.A. on Windhorse Retreat, Horse Sense, and Resources (2)

*Please see the references, footnotes, and citations, after the interview, respectively.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: What kind of activities are provided at Windhorse Retreat?

Sandy Bell[1],[2]: Currently, we are shut down because of Covid. Before then, we offered equine facilitated personal development for individuals and for groups. We also offered workshops that were related to horse wellness. So, for example, equine for first-aid or Reiki for horses. Things of that nature. We would consider special events. For example, if the Girl Guides wanted to come for a day to learn about horses, then we would set up something custom designed for them. All of those things, we found impossible to do with the changing landscape of Covid. We have just quietly shut our doors for now – so to speak, and are in the wait-and-see mode.

Jacobsen: How is Covid impacting the industry in the same way?

Bell: Yes, but, maybe, more of a negative impact than I’ve felt, I’ve always been able to have other income coming in, so I could feed my horses, for example. I think some people have had a terrible time in that regard. Last year, the Alberta Equestrian Federation set up a special emergency fund for horses. They supported people’s requests for funds for short-term needs for food and medications in Alberta. Some of the stories of hardship were rather heartbreaking. People lost their jobs. They had a horse that they cared deeply about, and were wondering how they could keep them. We helped them a little bit to make that happen.

Jacobsen: What are some misconceptions about the economic feasibility of owning horses or having a facility for most people? Those who are not in the industry and don’t know.

Bell: I think some of the misconceptions are based on what people see in the media, in terms of the Spruce Meadows kind of events. They might think everyone who has a horse is rich [Laughing] and can afford to show at that level. I think that’s pretty common. I think that might even deter some people from becoming involved because it’s like, “Oh boy, I couldn’t do that. It would be costly, cost too much.” There is a misconception that they couldn’t learn to ride or to drive a horse. Those are the two that come to mind. “It’s not for me because of my aptitude barriers, talent, or finances.”

Jacobsen: How would you compare the equestrian world of a century ago compared to now in Canadian society? How is it different with the combustible engine being completely ubiquitous compared to a time when it wasn’t necessarily so?

Bell: People knew horses then because they lived with them intimately. They worked with them every day. They were their partners in the economy. Imagine managing a city with stables right downtown and horses all over, people riding them, driving them, pulling wagons. People were very comfortable with horses because of that. Life was paced differently because it was by horsepower. Of course, then came the 1900’s first World War, the horses were an integral part of the war effort. You read the accounts of how many millions of horses died in battle. So, horses were part of that as well. Very possibly, that’s the reason why things turned out the way they did in the wars because the Allied forces could win with the horsepower behind them. The farms and the ranches here in Alberta who gave horses, shipped them overseas to the war effort, is an extraordinary thing to think about now.

For example, Bar U Ranch in the south of Calgary had, at the time, a world-renowned Percheron breeding program and Percherons from Alberta were a significant contributor to the war effort. After that, people came back home. As you say, the engine took over and slowly work horses on the farm were phased out for tractors. The world changed for horses. We thought of them in a different way. They became a day-to-day, not partners, companions for sport and for recreation. I’m fortunate to live in the country, where around me; there are still some people who use horses in their ranch work, still in very traditional ways. That’s pretty neat to see.

So, they still have that kind of partnerships with horses. I think we might be missing something not having a broader intimate relationship with the horse, but I don’t know that we can [Laughing]. I don’t know if we can introduce them back into the cities [Laughing].

Jacobsen: [Laughing] Maybe downtown carriage tours in cities.

Bell: Yes. Someone like yourself who was recently thrown into the horse world. You, probably, are feeling some of that going, “Wow. This is interesting how I feel whenever I am around horses.”

Jacobsen: It is fascinating, the feeling they give you. You can’t, as someone new to it, put a word to it, yet. What’s the word coming to mind for you as someone who has been part of it much more than me?

Bell: You begin to see them as individual beings and appreciate the wordless, or the unspoken, power that they have, and to humbled by their willingness to work with and put up with people. They’re quite remarkable creatures.

Jacobsen: I’m surprised in the stalls how goofy some of them are.

Bell: Yes!

Jacobsen: They’re like gigantic puppy-dogs. You clean the stall, put in fresh shavings, and they go hog wild. They roll around. It’s very funny to see.

Bell: Yes, “The majestic equine, the majestic horse,” has some very goofy sides, sometimes.

Jacobsen: The elegance of them comes when they are out of the stall and doing something as simple as lunging. Let’s say they’re doing a canter or a trot in circles, like a light jog, they’re extraordinarily rhythmic in the innate pace that they have, then they get in the stall and do all these goofy things. When I first got into the industry, it was hard to put those two pictures together. It was like two animals in one.

Bell: They are complex, for sure. We should not underestimate them. Surely, we know their brains are different from us. They must have a different way of thinking and being. But it is quite a remarkable brain, nonetheless. I came across an article, recently, about the differences between the horse brain and the human brain are part of the magic or the foundation for the relationship that we can have with them.

So, if you’re really connected with your horse when you’re riding, and you can feel, if you can think that thought, “Let’s canter now,” the subtle changes in your body can communicate to them. You can get it. You can seamlessly, like a centaur, just fly on. The neuroscience behind the horse-human relationship is starting to fascinate me a lot. I need to read more about it.

Jacobsen: This is a new field, where, for a long time, it was more of an intuitive grasp of it rather than a formal empirical study of the human mind in relation to the horse mind.

Bell: They talked about this. Now, there is the neuroscience explaining it. It is not just woo-woo. These people are not just a little off [Laughing]. It’s not, “No, this is real.” [Laughing].

Jacobsen: When I first talked about entering the industry, people would say things like, “All horse people are crazy.” I said, “Great! I’m crazy too. I’ll fit right in.”

Bell: [Laughing].

Jacobsen: Ian Millar, actually, in some footage, some video footage, I don’t recall the source of it, having source amnesia. However, the content was very similar to other things, which I’ve heard from equestrians. Which is, the idea of “the feel” or “feel.” The idea of simply having an intuitive sense with a horse based on experience or innate talent of feeling animals, of just knowing how to work a horse, get it to go left, get it to go right, get it to do what you want, to have the relationship built, but based on the sense, that horse sense, developed over time.

Bell: Whatever you want to call it, is it intuition? Is it some gift you’re born with? Are you feeling their body with your body and vice versa? Because it is all non-verbal. It’s very complex. So, when we horse people get together and talk to each other, and non-horse people hear us, they think we’re crazy.

Jacobsen: There is a symbiotic relationship there for sure. What was the feeling when you were elected president?

Bell: I was very honoured to have people put their faith in me to steward the organization. My goals were to strengthen government, governance, and financial accountability. That resonated with people. So, that was a nice endorsement of how I thought I could contribute to the organization. I previously held the position of treasurer. So, I had a solid grasp of the finances of the organization. I thought I could contribute to the governance structure. Yes, it was really an honour, humbling really, to have people say, “Yeah, we believe you can lead the organization in this way.”

Jacobsen: Do you think a separation economically in Canadian society in some places at some levels can prevent entrance into equestrianism, whether founding a facility, owning the horse, or getting lessons?

Bell: Most definitely. It is something that I think all the equestrian societies or federations should take a look at because involvement in equestrianism is declining. The barriers to becoming involved are part of that reason. What can we do about that? From my own personal circumstance, though as a girl with a passion of horses, I was on the wrong side of the tracks to do anything about it. I’m very sure. There are inner city kids who would love to connect with horses. You have to figure out ways to make that happen. It is a good thing. I don’t know if you have heard of the Urban Cowboys in Philadelphia.

Jacobsen: No, I haven’t.

Bell: Yes, it has been something that’s been part of inner city Philadelphia forever, sounds like. It is people who actually board or stable and ride their horses in inner city Philadelphia. They are giving back to the community by engaging youth that would never have an opportunity to be with a horse. It would be really neat to do something like that, like in Calgary or in Edmonton. Not sure how we’d do it. They have such a longstanding history of being there physically present in inner city Philadelphia. It’d be pretty hard to move them out. We would just need to find a space in inner city Calgary to set something up.

Jacobsen: Would you recommend any books, documentaries, or interviews for individuals who would want to get involved in equestrianism in Alberta?

Bell: I would recommend all the resources on the Alberta Equestrian Federation website and to follow our social media feeds. There’s lots of entry-level and little bit above information, programs, at Equine Guelph – University of Guelph’s equine program. Personally, I like to read about horses. So, anything I can get my hands on from a book about basic grooming to something that’s a little more nuanced like Zen Mind, Zen Horse by Allan Hamilton who is a neuroscientist. There are lots of different kinds of books out there. So, go visit your library and talk to your librarian about whatever your interests are, at whatever level, people who have horses or have a collection books are always to happy share or pass them on.

They could even be exercises to do with your horse if you have one of your own, or more about understanding your horse. So, the body language of horses and communication with horses, that sort of thing. Movies and things like that, there are some good ones out there. You will find horse people watching a Western movie and critiquing the riding [Laughing].

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Bell: Hidalgo is an interesting movie about someone who did a race across Africa and their experience. Of course, for all the younger people, all the oldie but goldy ones, like Black Beauty, The Black Stallion, The Black Stallion Returns.

Jacobsen: Any final thoughts on the interview today?

Bell: I want to thank you, Scott. It’s been fun. I’m really excited for your personal horse adventure. How you’re growing and exploring, and figuring out what fits for you.

Jacobsen: Thank you.

Bell: So, thank you for giving us a ring and allowing me the opportunity to talk about my personal experience and the Alberta Equestrian Federation, and just horse stuff in general.

Jacobsen: It’s been lovely, Sandy, thank you.

Footnotes

[1] President, Board of Directors, Alberta Equestrian Federation; Principal, Windhorse Retreat.

[2] Individual Publication Date: June 1, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/bell-2; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2022: https://in-sightpublishing.com/insight-issues/.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

The American Medical System and Physicians 3: Professor Benoit Desjardins, MD, PhD, FAHA, FACR, FNASCI on Burnout, Quack Medicine, and Litigious American Culture

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/05/22

Abstract

Professor Benoit Desjardins, MD, PhD, FAHA, FACR, FNASCI is an Ivy League academic physician and scientist at the University of Pennsylvania. He is a member of the Mega Society, the OlympIQ Society and past member of the Prometheus Society. He is the designer of the cryptic Mega Society logo. He is member of several scientific societies and a Fellow of the American College of Radiology and of the American Heart Association. He is the co-Founder of the Arrhythmia Imaging Research (AIR) lab at Penn. His research is funded by the National Institute of Health. He is an international leader in three different fields: cardiovascular imaging, artificial intelligence and cybersecurity. He discusses: cruelty; burn out; treatment of physicians; ‘alternative’ medicine; ignorance; masquerading as knowledge; Dr. Oz-ification of culture; scientific illiteracy; deceased or now-disabled colleagues; UDHR; International Labour Organization; Dr. Oz; defense mechanisms or infrastructure to protect themselves from the litigious patients; and those with fewer means and less authority in medical institutions.

Keywords: American, Benoit Desjardins, Medicine, physicians, quack medicine, science, United States.

The American Medical System and Physicians 3: Professor Benoit Desjardins, MD, PhD, FAHA, FACR, FNASCI on Burnout, Quack Medicine, and Litigious American Culture

*Please see the references, footnotes, and citations, after the interview, respectively.*

*This interview represents Dr. Desjardins’ opinion, combined to the current content of the published medical literature, and not necessarily the opinion of his employers.*

On the medical-legal system in the U.S.

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: How is the U.S. comparable to the Middle Ages with patients blaming physicians for illness?

Dr. Benoit Desjardins: It is often taught that the U.S. has been the only country since the Middle Ages in which people blame physicians for their diseases. There is no personal accountability anymore in the U.S. Every problem Americans face is someone else’s fault. They blame most problems on immigrants or rich people, but they blame healthcare problems on physicians. If a woman delivers an imperfect baby, she blames it on the physician and tries to extort money. If a man develops lung cancer after chain-smoking for 50 years, he will often go over his past medical record with lawyers to see if a physician could be blamed for his cancer. Sometimes they discover early imperceptible evidence about cancer and then try to extort money from physicians. Most U.S. courtrooms in medical-legal trials are like the courtroom from the movie “Idiocracy,” where massively ignorant, scientifically illiterate people try to blame top physicians for patients’ diseases. The U.S. medical-legal system has been the laughingstock of the entire planet for more than fifty years.

Jacobsen: Outside of individual violent reprisals by former or current patients, what about the legal repercussions? Where, individual patients may have legitimate claims and may not. However, in a litigious culture, as in the U.S., this can be a major issue. The general litigious culture may become magnified in a context of life-and-death, and general illness, issues. So, what happens?

Desjardins: An entire sector of the U.S. “justice” system has been created to blame physicians for patients’ diseases. There are thousands of primarily frivolous lawsuits filed against physicians in the U.S. every year. Corrupt prosecutors use four well-known techniques of deception to extort money: (1) they suppress published scientific evidence supporting the correct actions by physicians, (2) they commit massive perjury against physicians, (3) they use flawed reasoning techniques from con-artists to fool jurors, and (4) they pay unqualified “experts” to misrepresent the standards of medical practice in court. In addition, U.S. judges threaten physicians with jail time if they try to prove in court that they followed correct science, after corrupt prosecutors suppress published scientific evidence. In other countries, using deception to extort money is a crime. In the U.S., it is the modus operandi of a 55-billion-dollar financial extortion industry against physicians and hospitals, affecting up to 80% of U.S. physicians in some specialties.

Jacobsen: Also, how is the court system in Pennsylvania?

Desjardins: In the past ten years, Philadelphia has been exposed in the medical literature and at medical conferences as having one of the most corrupt, scientifically illiterate medical-legal systems on Earth. The Philadelphia “justice” system frequently commits crimes against innocent physicians.

Jacobsen: What are some fallouts or likely outcomes from this idiocy?

Desjardins: It has led to a severe shortage of physicians in Philadelphia. Physicians have left the city by the boatload, sometimes more than 50% of entire divisions resigning en masse, and we experience significant difficulties recruiting. Several city hospitals have permanently shut down in recent years, and many more are on the verge of shutting down.

Jacobsen: How does this impact the future of the field to recruit sufficiently qualified, even talented, individuals? Where do they go? What about those better physicians in the field who can hack it – the workload and the B.S., but don’t want to deal with the sheer tonnage of nonsense and risks to livelihood?

Desjardins:  In the past ten years, my clinical section, which is in desperate need of more radiologists, has not been able to recruit any radiologists. We have even offered some promising recruits the possibility to work remotely. By never setting foot in Philadelphia, this eliminates their chances of getting assaulted or stabbed in the face by patients. Still, they refused as they do not want to be associated with the city of Philadelphia for the reasons described above.

Jacobsen: How do U.S. physicians keep one another in check, too, in case of malpractice – so back to higher levels of healthcare education and authority?

Desjardins: A tiny portion of lawsuits against physicians are genuine cases of malpractice due to poorly trained or incompetent physicians. Checks and balances are in place to either address the educational shortcomings or remove the practice license if necessary. Most lawsuits are crimes committed against excellent physicians by corrupt prosecutors in cases of bad outcomes or complications, which are part of expected outcomes in medicine. There is no lesson for physicians to learn from these cases. They are discussed in the literature and at conferences to educate physicians about the corruption and scientific illiteracy of the U.S. “justice” system and prepare them to become crime victims.

Jacobsen: Have physicians built any defense mechanisms or infrastructure to protect themselves from the litigious patients, when they inevitably arise, or the top-heavy bureaucratic culture?

Desjardins: There is a malpractice insurance system for physicians, a 55-billion-dollar industry. When physicians become victims of too many frivolous lawsuits, the cost of their malpractice insurance rapidly increases until, at some point, they cannot afford to pay the exorbitant fees and are forced to abandon their medical careers. Physicians practicing in cities with the most corrupt medical-legal systems tend to leave their medical profession early, worsening the massive shortage of physicians.

Jacobsen: How does this – the litigious patients out there and the maltreatment of healthcare professionals by institutions – impact those with fewer means and less authority in medical institutions, e.g., nurses, nurse-practitioners, and the like?

Desjardins: Nurses and nurse-practitioners have their own malpractice insurance system, although physicians and hospitals are the main targets of prosecutors. Nurses also have difficult working conditions, including forced overtime. But they cannot be exposed to working conditions as poor as physicians, as nurses have a union. For example, nurses are “officially” not allowed to work more than 12 consecutive hours in most states. It does not include occasional forced overtime. Some physicians are required to work up to 72 straight hours. It would be illegal and inhumane to make nurses work as long as physicians.

On medical quackery in the U.S.

Jacobsen: What are common cases of individuals able to use the term “doctor,” “physician,” etc., by law, or not, when, in fact, no legitimate training or grounds for the claims to the titles exist?

Desjardins: Many professions outside medicine use the term “doctor.” Any Ph.D. in any field has the right to be called a “doctor,” for example, Dr. Jill Biden has a doctorate in educational leadership. Dr. Phil McGraw (Dr. Phil) is not a physician but provides medical advice on T.V. He has a Doctorate in Psychology but is not a licensed psychologist. In the healthcare field, Doctors of Osteopathy (D.O.s) have the right to be called “doctors” and practice medicine in the U.S. but cannot practice medicine in some other countries. Chiropractors and naturopaths are called “doctors” and practice healthcare but are not physicians. They constitute a hazard to healthcare and are not allowed to practice in most countries. There are cases of individuals pretending to be physicians who practice medicine without training until they are exposed.

Jacobsen: There’s plenty of bullshit remedies out there in the public sold by the boatload. What about medical institutions who buy into them and begin to practice them? What are cases of this? Are there any consequences for individuals engaged in giving out known ineffective treatments?

Desjardins: The medical community scientifically assesses remedies to determine their effectiveness. If they are proven ineffective, respectable institutions will not adopt them. Some physicians dispense some ineffective or dangerous therapy and can lose their license. Recently U.S. judges forced physicians to administer ivermectin (horse deworming medicine) to COVID patients, an act of pure idiocy. It reflects the mindboggling scientific illiteracy of the U.S. justice system. Physicians who have administered such medication have been fired for incompetence and stupidity.

Jacobsen: Also, what are the problems with ‘alternative’ medicine, naturopathic medicine, and so on?

Desjardins: They don’t work. Just look at the late Steve Jobs.

Jacobsen: I wrote a short article critical of Naturopathy in British Columbia, Canada, a while ago – a quickie. A while goes, I received a lengthy email or digital letter from the President of the British Columbia Naturopathic Association (B.C.NA.) at the time. Obviously, the person was displeased. I responded with the same so-called baseless critiques towards this individual, once, saying I would only do it a single time, but covered the territory well.

It was enough to deal with the issue. They were orthogonal to the evidence-based claims, so wrong, pointless – by my estimation, and such lightweight critiques, even a young independent journalist could deal with them. Yet, these forms of alternative practice are present, proliferating, and have been with cultures forever, though more complex in the nonsense with technology.

It’s simply less excusable as medicine and meta-analytic studies’ powers give, not deep insight but, a modicum of reasonable thou-shalts and thou-shalt nots of good health guidelines in general, as you stipulated earlier.

People seem entitled. Professionals who spend their time thinking and researching narcissism claim a rise in narcissism over decades. Entitlement is a facet of narcissism. How is the Dr. Oz-ification of culture and medicine halting progress on the front of proper treatment of dis-ease in American society?

Desjardins: Some individuals with top credentials in a specific field sometimes become self-appointed experts in entirely different fields. Dr. Mehmet Oz is one of those. He is a retired Ivy League Professor and cardiothoracic surgeon fro Columbia University. He is a scholar with top credentials in a highly specialized field, who has become a television personality and started providing general health advice. He has promoted pseudoscience, alternative medicine, faith healing, and paranormal beliefs. Dr. Scott Atlas, a prominent neuroradiologist from Stanford, was appointed by Trump as a coronavirus advisor, an area in which he had no expertise. He then spread massive misinformation about COVID and advised against the official policy of the CDC. Pseudo-experts are tools that ignorant, corrupt people use to spread misinformation in the U.S. These pseudo-experts halt progress of good evidence-based medical policy and affect the quality of care.

Jacobsen: Other than Dr. Oz, who are other ignorance-mongers becoming rich off offering fake medicine?

Desjardins: There are several, especially given the rapid growth of social media. But the most prominent media personalities doctors are Dr. Andrew Weil, a physician and expert in integrative medicine, and Dr. Phil McGraw, a T.V. unlicensed psychologist. Weil has a net worth of $100 million (similar to Dr. Oz). McGraw has a net worth of $460 million. They both offer good and bad advice and are both very entertaining.

Footnotes

[1] Academic Physician; Member, OlympIQ Society; Member, Mega Society.

[2] Individual Publication Date: May 22, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/american-medicine-3; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2022: https://in-sightpublishing.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Masaaki Yamauchi on Thoughts About I.Q., Time, Consciousness, and Metaphysics: Administrator, ESOTERIQ Society (3)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/05/22

Abstract

Masaaki Yamauchi is the Administrator of ESOTERIQ Society. He discusses: mother; the town of 14,000 people; the spirit; acquisition of a graduate degree; the high-IQ communities now; the concept of IQ increasing or decreasing in cultural importance; high-IQ societies self-destruct; life; math; manufacturing industrial jobs; the WIN seven league; no religious dogma; social sensitivity; metaphysics; a miracle; time; and consciousness.

Keywords: administrator, ESOTERIQ, intelligence, IQ, Japanese, JAPANIQ Society, Masaaki Yamauchi.

Conversation with Masaaki Yamauchi on Thoughts About I.Q., Time, Consciousness, and Metaphysics: Administrator, ESOTERIQ Society (3)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: What was the “heavy disease” killing your mother?

Masaaki Yamauchi[1],[2]*: Sorry, that is a confidential information between my family and relations. My mother`s soul will be reborn at next body in the future. Then, I will meet her again someday.

Jacobsen: Did the town of 14,000 people on the countryside make life simpler for you, growing up?

Yamauchi: Yes, It was a simple life. Just I usually read many books in the library at the high school student. I had never felt that life was bored.

Jacobsen: What is the spirit to you?

Yamauchi: There are plenty of meaning about it, but it mainly implies non-physical existence in my definition.

Jacobsen: How are your studies progressing towards acquisition of a graduate degree?

Yamauchi: I wish I would go to a graduate school of Mathematical physics (almost same as theoretical physics) after just graduating from my college with Math major and Physics minor. I hope acquisition of a Master`s degree in social science or humanities, not natural science any more at the present.

Jacobsen: What do you think is needed from the high-IQ communities now?

Yamauchi: No needs. Just I keep my societies (ESOTERIQ and EVANGELIQ) by the end of my life.

Jacobsen: Is the concept of IQ increasing or decreasing in cultural importance? In that, are people taking it more or less seriously, and why?

Yamauchi: In 1996, one famous book, the Bell Curve by Richard J. Herrnstein and Charles Murry, was disputed in U.S.A. It does not make sense about the controversy because IQ is just a psychometric tool psychologically and statistical distribution mathematically. IQ is not factor of human intelligence. All current 8 billion people belong somewhere between 5 and 195 on normal distribution at any time. I am strongly certain that 195 scorer does not imply smarter than 5 scorer.

For example, there are two persons who won 33 times and lost 33 times in Rock-Paper-Scissors-world population championship respectively.

Is really the 33 times winner much luckier than the 33 times loser?

The answer is no because luckiness of both of them is absolutely equal to

1 in 2^33 = 1 in 8.5 billions.

The frequency is just a statistical necessary on binomial distribution.

Let me say again.

“Supposing it never happens to anybody subjectively, it always happens somebody objectively in the world”

I have mentioned before about relationship between normal distribution and binomial distribution on the first interview.

195 scorer (highest IQ person) and 5 scorer (lowest IQ person) are to what 33 times winner (luckiest person) and 33 times loser (unluckiest person) statistically.

Somebody says “Albert Einstein`s IQ was 160, 180 or 200 over!”

So what?

All historical geniuses were recorded by great academic performance, not IQ score itself.

All people can have each own absolute luckiness and intelligence as in 1 in 80 billions.

Jacobsen: Why do most high-IQ societies self-destruct?

Yamauchi: Each founder has each own reason to sustain a society.

Jacobsen: What do you hope to get out of life?

Yamauchi: Living itself. I will leave from this planet and go back to my mother star Sirius after end of my reincarnation on the Earth.

Jacobsen: What kinds of math have you tutored?

Yamauchi: Elementary algebra to high school calculus.

Jacobsen: What are the manufacturing industrial jobs for you?

Yamauchi: Several kinds. Haulage, auto parts, pharmaceuticals, electronic components and semiconductor.

Jacobsen: What most impresses you about the WIN seven league?

Yamauchi: The EVANGELIQ society I founded for Dr.Evangelos Katsioulis‘s 37th birthday gift was admitted to the 37th society. It made me so happy and it was such an honorable.

Jacobsen: Even though, you have no religious dogma. What religious dogma seems reasonable to you?

Yamauchi: Almost all religion has a founder and scripture, but my dogma does not keep neither. My reasonable belief follows to my own inspiration, loving myself and enjoying life everyday.

Jacobsen: What is “social sensitivity” to you?

Yamauchi: Social sensitivity is one of emotional intelligence, an ability to detect the emotions of others. There is no correlation between succeed at project and team`s average IQ.

Jacobsen: Why define metaphysics as a kind of spiritualism?

Yamauchi: Metaphysics is separated into two words “Meta (over)” and “Physics (matter)” which imply inquiring non-physical. Spirit is always non-physical life, so metaphysics is a kind of spiritualism to me.

Jacobsen: How would define everything as a miracle?

Yamauchi: I really love Albert Einstein`s quote which is “There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle.”

One second, one minutes, one hour and one day are filled with a miracle at the given mechanical moment.

The minimum unit of quantum time is made from plank time (5.391*10^-44 s).

Therefore, every moment is momentarily created by the infinite series from the time.

Jacobsen: In our first interview, you stated, “Time will come from future to past, not past to future. All causes occur by a reason from future, not a past event.” Can you expand on this reasoning, please?

Yamauchi: Every event in our life is just a neutral fact even if war, terrorism murder, massacre and pandemic like corona virus on the Earth. A word “Responsibility” comes from combination of “Response” and “Ability”. We have nothing to fear because we can have responsibility to response all events by our ability. Our future will be created by our responsibility, not events themselves. We always hold two choices “Reaction” and “Response” which define negative judgement and positive judgement respectively when one event happens to our life.

For instance, getting a new job after dismissing from a company means what getting a new job is cause, not effect. Dismissing from a company is effect, not a cause.

Jacobsen: How does our consciousness fall into the brain? In this way, how are you technically defining consciousness?

Yamauchi: I suppose brain is to consciousness what matter is to mind. Bertrand Russell said “What is matter? Never mind. What is mind? Doesn`t matter” This is the best joke I like.

By the way, let me ask seriously. Does a line really exist?

According to the Euclid`s elements, “A line is length without breadth”

If so, nobody can see it!

We cannot prove the existence of line in this way.

Therefore, a line exists imaginary, but does not exist actually.

As well as a line, consciousness exists imaginary, but does not exist actually since brain is almost everything as far as our physical body sustains life activity.

However, consciousness separate from brain in a moment when we die (after brain disappear) then move to non-physical world (imaginary world).

I can tell you one pragmatic example in neuroscience field.

There was one famous man named H.M (a man without hippocampus).

https://www.npr.org/2007/02/24/7584970/h-m-s-brain-and-the-history-of-memory

The person had no concept about past and future because he was not able to keep any episode memory.

His consciousness was always on now and today when he woke up every morning, no yesterday`s memory, no tomorrow`s plan.

He was able to know how to ride a bicycle and use some tools even though he had no hippocampus.

That is, past training skill was recorded in different part whose name was basal ganglia and cerebellum as procedural memory.

Same as H.M story, almost all people can never keep past life memory since past life episode memory always disappears before hippocampus cell creates while we are growing up in mother`s uterus, but past life skill can succeed to next body`s basal ganglia and cerebellum as procedural memory.

Brain is to consciousness what egg-york is to egg-white in my theory. Brain itself (the York) as a matter disappears, but only consciousness (the white) as a non-physical matter inherits to next difference body (Reincarnation) when we die.

It sounds impossible to separate the York and white without cracking the cell, but we can temporally separate brain and consciousness by some specific religious ritual like meditation, long time fasting and psychoactive drug (LSD or cannabis)

Let me introduce strongly recommend two safety tools I have experienced before.

Isolation tank by John C. Lilly (origin of the movie, Altered States)

https://www.samadhitank.com/

Hemi-Sync by the Monroe Institute (founded by Robert Monroe)

https://www.monroeinstitute.org/

Furthermore, the beginning of our consciousness is introduced in Voyage to curiosity`s further by Bruce Moen.

https://www.bookdepository.com/Voyage-Curiositys-Father-Bruce-Moen/9781571742032

In a nutshell, we all human came to the Earth to seek unconditional love energy, then we will leave from this planet to each home star like Sirius, Pleiades, Vega, Arcturus and Orion after we are sufficiently filled with it.

Footnotes

[1] Administrator, ESOTERIQ Society.

[2] Individual Publication Date: May 22, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/yamauchi-3; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2022: https://in-sightpublishing.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Tor Arne Jørgensen on Western Europe, Russian Aggression, Putin, Zelensky, China, and India: 2019 Genius of the Year – Europe, World Genius Directory (8)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/05/22

Abstract

Tor Arne Jørgensen is a member of 50+ high IQ societies, including World Genius Directory, NOUS High IQ Society, 6N High IQ Society just to name a few. He has several IQ scores above 160+ sd15 among high range tests like Gift/Gene Verbal, Gift/Gene Numerical of Iakovos Koukas and Lexiq of Soulios. Tor Arne was also in 2019, nominated for the World Genius Directory 2019 Genius of the Year – Europe. He is the only Norwegian to ever have achieved this honor. He has also been a contributor to the Genius Journal Logicon, in addition to being the creater of toriqtests.com, where he is the designer of now eleven HR-tests of both verbal/numerical variant. His further interests are related to intelligence, creativity, education developing regarding gifted students. Tor Arne has an bachelor`s degree in history and a degree in Practical education, he works as a teacher within the following subjects: History, Religion, and Social Studies. He discusses: European interpretation of the Russo-Ukrainian war; the major losses and wins for the Western countries in this war; Putin; Zelensky; the massive disagreement with the Russian Federation’s actions from the United Nations General Assembly; other major players on the world stage; China; African states; the post-colonial states with large economies; this conflict on 1 to 10; reactive commentary; nuclear weapons; the Nordic countries; the U.N. condemnation; the “neutral zone”; health; bold moves and a legacy; a bilateral conflict; a war in the economic sphere; cyberwarfare; democratic development; Sino-Russian relations; and any sympathetic statements by Western European leaders.

Keywords: China, India, NATO, Russia, Tor Arne Jørgensen, United Nations, Western Europe, Zelensky.

 Conversation with Tor Arne Jørgensen on Western Europe, Russian Aggression, Putin, Zelensky, China, and India: 2019 Genius of the Year – Europe, World Genius Directory (8)

*Please see the references, footnotes, and citations, after the interview, respectively.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: What is the European interpretation of the Russo-Ukrainian war at the moment?

Tor Arne Jørgensen[1],[2]*: The general view that we in Europe have, and with that I mean the Nordic countries bordering Russia in particular, is that with this war and the possibility for aggression that Russia poses against us, especially against Sweden and Finland which are not included as per today into the NATO alliance are viewed as grave to say it mildly.

An imminent accession into NATO for these two Nordic countries will not be an easy decision by the two nations leaders to make, as the border with Russia and an ever-increasing narrowing of the “neutral zone” if one can call it that between NATO alliance and Russia. Thus, it is not an easy decision to make, as this neutral zone and its weathering can accelerate an all-out escalation of the conflict between the West and the East. Russia and the West do not benefit from such a direct neighborhood, a neutral zone must be established so that the war does not become global.

Here in the West and especially Europe, we must hold back, send the proper signals to the United States, not to push more than necessary, by that I mean, purposely to create stability and going forward to perhaps put an end through acts of diplomacy and dissolving warring between Russia and Ukraine. This sums up what we in Europe now hope for in my view.

Jacobsen: What have been the major losses and wins for the Western countries in this war?

Jørgensen: The losses are clear, with the intention of looking at oil and gas, but not nearly as bad as for Russia, as this has so far been a disaster for its economy. Western military victories are probably not something to be viewed, as any territories have not been taken or given over by eastern states. So the losses are seen only in economic terms so far, while the victories are noticed by increased support against dictatorial tyranny, and the advance of democratic values.

Jacobsen: What did Putin underestimate?

Jørgensen: The Ukrainian leadership and the will of the Ukrainian people to resist Russian aggression.

Jacobsen: What did Zelensky underestimate?

Jørgensen: He was probably not aware of the role he was to play during this war, in which the similarities with England’s greatest statesman of all time, Winston Churchill has been made openly. Furthermore, the West’s enormous support as to both humanitarian and military, and as well as an overall global compassion and support from all generations young and old.

Jacobsen: How has the massive disagreement with the Russian Federation’s actions from the United Nations General Assembly changed the international discourse on the war?

Jørgensen: The fact that the Russian Federation has a permanent seat at the Security Council and thus cannot be removed indefinitely by allowing the current government to continue to govern as they please. But the suspension from the UNHRC and the symbolic significance it has is possibly a sign of a shift in the balance of power, or the influential effect that the Russian Federation has in its executive mandate.

Whether this will then be what it takes to create a new or alternative direction through changed attitude towards the United Nations and its Security Council, or whether new guidelines should be considered of what a member state can allowed itself to do in accordance with human rights violations in wartime remains to be seen. That a change in membership conditions should be brought up for debate is clear.

The UN’s reputation as a peacekeeping organization during peacetime or not is being put to the test more now than ever before since the organization first began just after WWII and the foundation from which it was built on. Sees now a change of organizational absolutes as an inevitably necessity, viewed from the current situation regarding the Russian-Ukraine war and the powerlessness in which the United Nations finds itself in the same manner as during the time of the League of Nations.

Jacobsen: What about other major players on the world stage either by economy or population size, or both? How is India taking this wartime issue? 

Jørgensen: India’s economic implications resulting from the war between Russia and Ukraine have their clear effect as to the fall in the global market, prompt from the fall in the stock market, specifically with reference to India’s dependence on oil in various forms, including sunflower oil coming from both countries (Russia-Ukraine). Furthermore, technological implicit in the tech sector, not to forget the pharmaceutical sector.

India can certainly adjust towards a more independent policy line, where a rather marginalized strategy, result to a reducing of outsourcing, may in the long run prove to be beneficial not only for India, but for most countries whereas their independence or promos must be reconsidered as these the type of conflicts as we now see will probably not remain isolated in the future. The protection of one’s natural resources, and upscaling of and for one’s close bilateral relations across close neighbors, can break outstretched and more insecure imports of the most vulnerable of resources.

Jacobsen: What is China doing now in reaction if any?

Jørgensen: It seems to me that China keeps a low profile still and cleverly so, because one must keep in mind that China has here a unique opportunity to observe the West’s and its reaction with reference to the Russia -Ukraine ongoing conflict. How stable and structured is NATO today, where is the community’s trust, and to what extent is NATO’s military might view today. One must not look at today’s NATO in the same manner as to its military capabilities as the former League of Nations and to what it had in its arsenal nor its lack of a tight alliance. NATO is probably stronger today than ever before. But I must admit, that to what extent NATO’s role had to play after the fall of the Iron Curtain back in -89, when the need of such an alliance was no longer so pressing in what seemed to be peacetime and added in the Warsaw Pact’s dissolution during the summer of -91.

But back to China and the role of the Chinese government now, is I think, to sit tight, wait, stay calm, take notes regarding, strategically, materially, economically, and finally the key most important thing, honor, to keep their honor and not lose face, something that Russia has so solemnly now done perhaps irrepealably damage its own role as an historically important powerhouse. This is probably what will be mostly important for China to do now, furthermore, its role ahead in terms of the China -Taiwan controversy and adding NATO’s role in its support of Taiwan and thus resistance from the Chinese government of the probability of an extended formation of a NATO pacific alliance.

Jacobsen: How are African states, e.g., Nigeria, taking this into account in terms of impacts on their economy?

Jørgensen: What cannot be avoided in this context is the importance that Ukraine attaches to the world’s food supply, as Ukraine is the main grain stock for many of us. African northern states feel this even more, as many of these states are daily dependent on the supply of stable and secure grain delivery from Ukraine in particular, the same can be said with regards to food oils which then constitute an increased importance in the supplement in grain / food exported from Ukraine to the world.

For those countries that are completely dependent on the safe supply of grain to feed their compatriots, this is a very unfortunate situation to be in, far worse than many of the western countries that have alternative solutions to consider ensuring stability of a stable grain stock etc.

Jacobsen: What about the post-colonial states with large economies, e.g., the United States of America, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and Israel (and South Africa)?

Jørgensen: If one considers the United States, as they are not dependent on Russian oil to the same extent of what Europe is, with Germany as the most dependent state in Europe of Russian oil and gas. Nor when it comes to access to stable business routes to ensure food deliveries to its own population.

The same could be said at least to some extent regarding Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa as well, where one should take certain restrictions in the requirement for stable energy sources regarding fossil fuels, and to a certain extent again in the degree of self-sufficiency of food supply, and the availability of various grains and oils directed towards the food industry. It should probably also be added that Australia’s atomic political foundations, are self-supported through sufficiency by and for one’s own omittance of the import need prompt to the state’s existence, is thereby marked to be define as self-sufficient in accordance with the Australian statutes of sustainability.

Jacobsen: If we scale this conflict on 1 to 10 with 10 being WWI and WWII, and 1 being global peacetime, where does this conflict sit on this spectrum?

Jørgensen: From what you suggested as to what scale to use, I will probably lean towards 3 or 4 out of 10 as of current time, where a upscaled to a clear 4 out of 10 within the next 2 months, for then to be scaled down again to 2 out of 10 within the next 8-12 months.

Jacobsen: There was reactive commentary immediately on social media about WWIII. How much of this is simply hysterics rather than realistic appraisal about the situation in the earlier parts of the war and now?

Jørgensen: A changed state in and around the theme of World War III, is for me not from the state one sees as of today nor what was at the start a realistic picture to form or take in. Why do I say this, probably because Russia’s interests do not, even if Putin and his state may impromptu us to believe, that an end war is a possible comprehend rum? That a long-term planning as it is then described regards to the world media, one quickly sees that his plan (Putin) and his cabinet failed miserably.

For me, when one lays a plan A, then one lays plan B-C-D… In the early stages of the war, the long supply lines regarding the 6km long convoy that was to make Russia and its immense power for the “world to fear,” resulted in a complete ridicule for all of us to watch. After this rather embarrassing mockup by the dreaded Russian war machine, one thinks and sees that this cannot be well planned. If well planned, Russia would have had to be aware of which corner they would paint themselves into when they started their war campaign.

Now Russia is almost looked upon as a global outcast, the Russian leadership is detested completely by a united West. The Russian leader has destroyed the pride of his country and what trace of honor that must be left should now not remain permanently destroyed. A third world war seems to me to be impossible for Russia’s people, internal government, nor for Russia’s allies. Even the participation of Syrian mercenaries will probably not change the outcome of this war, nor will Sweden’s and Finland’s incorporation into NATO’s safe embrace.

Finally, I would like to point out that the West is a greater threat to a third world war with its constant tightening of the net around an ever increasingly pressured Russia, whereby their allies can counteract NATO’s patronage of Russia’s autonomy.

Jacobsen: Would Putin use nuclear weapons? Would NATO nations consider the use of their nuclear weapons if so? In either case, these seem insane, as this is “mutually assured destruction.” 

Jørgensen: We only have this one planet, we all play in the same sandbox, the world has too much to lose. Look at China and all the developments that they are now experiencing, they are one of the world’s strongest economies. They and India will not let Russia end the world in the quest to acquire lost lands. Everyone realizes that the Soviet Union and its heyday are over, and the President of Russia must realize this once and for all.

Jacobsen: Will this grave picture from the Nordic countries create a necessity for wartime participation from most of them on the side of Ukraine? If so, which nation-states?

Jørgensen: If one looks with regards to the application for NATO membership for both Sweden and Finland, thus marking a possible historic Nordic shift, then the Nordic alliance in addition to the alliance with NATO as an extra boost security against Russian aggression. By that said, will then Russia remain a lasting threat for the Nordic countries to deal with, do not think so. Separate we are small and maybe few, but united we are strong and somewhat plentiful.

Finland alone has previously shown the world that they can certainly hold their ground, for example during the Russo-Finnish war back in 1939 -40, where Russia invaded Finland, the Finnish forces not only held their stand, but also manage to push back the invading forces for quite some time. But at the same time, it should be duly pointed out that Russia’s in that sense increased cooperation in every sense with China, as well as North Korea, where Russia’s support in a military sense has been marked in China as well as North Korea’s military with reference buildup after the end of World War II.

One should further keep in mind that the Cold War was never really over, but forever-expanding regards to NATO expansion, the NATO alliance has been eating away more and more of territorially sovereignty on its way towards the Eastern Front, whereby the current tense situation now runs counter to everyone’s astonishment?!

It should also be said that the United States and its status as the world’s only superpower, can no longer be stated as factual.

Iran, Russia, North Korea, and USA, yes, all countries that have nuclear weapons capabilities for use in their arsenal are now to be considered a superpower as their nuclear armaments can reach all targets across the globe. The quintessential question to be asked now is, by what purpose is it to use these weapons, aren’t we all still live in the same sandbox?? If we were to start a third world war, then the outcome would be very possible, as Albert Einstein once said, If, this becomes a reality, that is, World War III, then “the next one will be fought with sticks and stones.” The idea of ​​being bombed back to the Stone Age, where all hope of restoration is to be regarded as utopian wishful thinking, think of a Mars-like scenario, and end of civilization as we know it, the reality hits you.

Jacobsen: Does the U.N. condemnation, overwhelming, of this situation, justify legal ramifications and an investigation into the crimes and human rights violations by Russia against civilians and Ukrainian sovereignty?

Jørgensen: Undoubtedly yes, although one can ask questions of a more investigative position, so yes, here there is no doubt about its legality nor one’s legitimacy.

Jacobsen: How has the “neutral zone” evolved over time?

Jørgensen: The expansion of the “neutral zone” between the West and the East, where a constant invasion, or rather a narrowing of territorial sovereignty based on one’s origins after World War II as it is hereby put forth, regards to the eastern part, and then the expansion of territorial sovereignty in pictorial sense, in a more recent historical perspective indisputably proven with reference to Western NATO alliance due presence.

Jacobsen: Putin is old. Is his health an issue?

Jørgensen: When it comes to age, one would say no, Putin’s age is not a decisive factor in this context.

Jacobsen: Is there a sense, by him, of wanting to make bold moves and a legacy through the invasion? Or is his concern more geostrategic, or both?

Jørgensen: Simply put, to speak of a person who was despairing of the weathering powerlessness that arose in the following days after the Cold War when the Iron Curtain fell. The dissolution of the Soviet Union, a disintegrating nation where total chaos reigned, no one would nor could respond when a desperate Putin asks for advice of his leaders; “what happens now?” A former KGB agent, who has his special field within spreading misinformation promoted for the desire to create fear and control by the few over the many.

A brilliant bureaucrat, where a rapid rise after the end of the Cold War, in which former President Boris Yeltsin at the very beginning of the 21st century, puts Putin as his appointed prime minister and further heir to the presidency at the very beginning of a new millennia. One now sees, at least in some way a clear comparison with the Nazi leader during World War II.

What can be speculated about now is, will we then see a similar demise likes the one we teach our children in schools regarding Hitlers last days in his private bunker or not, will history repeat itself or not once again…?

Jacobsen: What is the process, historically, of other nations being drawn into a wartime scenario, and then a bilateral conflict becoming regional if not global?

Jørgensen: Extensions of alliances, inaugurations of warlords, decisions by and for the incorporation of territorial sovereignty, where a “safe haven” of a supreme guardianship calls out to you. A confident big brother who takes care of the little man, whereby the suppressing duty for little brother is to do everything that big brother says he must do or else, similar to the whim of a madman.

This is a short, but all so true description of the Western alliance, and it does not improve in any way with reference to its eastern counterpart. This is what we (the people) must endure by our wants or not. So yes, the small ones are eaten up by the big ones, the powerful ones rule the impaled ones. Expansions have been made, are now being made, and will in the future be leading for world politics where give and take every day, controls the outcome for peacetime or not …

Jacobsen: Is this primarily a war in the economic sphere at this point?

Jørgensen: The economic implications that we all see and feel in our everyday lives are palpable. What leads in the future can quickly overshadow the financial consequences. As they are the first to emerge, and what is experienced the longest after the actual warfare is over in accordance with clean-up and all the humanitarian work in the aftermath.

Jacobsen: What about the current forms of war found online with digital technology, espionage, hacking, surveillance, and cyberwarfare in general? Have these been much of the conflict?

Jørgensen: Yes, based on Russia’s history of cyber warfare, manipulation, and attempts to gag neighboring states according of their rule of law, democracy, and freedom of speech regarding the general population both abroad and at home. So yes, this is a well-known tactic from the Russian government, historically as well as to current time conflict between Russia and Ukraine.

Jacobsen: How many countries, in varying degrees of democratic development, count as “democratic” globally compared to autocratic? I am aware of a march towards more democratic, secular, and Enlightenment views globally – unsure as to how much, though.

Jørgensen: The democratic index points in the direction of an expanded perspective, with a downward spiral for the autocratic forms of government. If you look at the index today, full democratically governed countries would be around 6.4% and countries with fully autocratic rule would then be around 37% but take these numbers with precaution as they can vary.

Jacobsen: How will, or are, Sino-Russian relations impacting the war? Has the Chinese Communist Party made any formal statements or motions regarding this war?

Jørgensen: The camaraderie between China and Russia is better than it has been for a long time, the border conflict that took place back in spring of -69, has today by no means no remnants of any lasting disputes between these two countries. So no, it does not mean that a consequence of that past tense historical conflict in any regards has been a major factor to calculate into the current wartime conflict between Russia and Ukraine. China and its position now have been all about keeping calm, looking at what is happening by observing the situation in anticipation of its outcome pro-con.

Jacobsen: Have there been any sympathetic statements by Western European leaders towards Putin, as in understanding the aggression against Ukrainian people and the annexation of Ukrainian territory?

Jørgensen: Believes and believes that most Western leaders dissociate themselves from what Putin has now messed up. A clear response in a statement of support for what is happening now, would be met with disgust by a united NATO alliance and a united European population led by the United States. My reply to the initial question is then clearly presented.

Footnotes

[1] Tor Arne Jørgensen is a member of 50+ high IQ societies.

[2] Individual Publication Date: May 22, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/Jørgensen-8; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2022: https://in-sightpublishing.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Richard May (“May-Tzu”/”MayTzu”/”Mayzi”) on “Fragments,” “Yaldabaoth is Dead,” “Don’t Take Your Life Personally. It’s Not About You!”, “Event Horizon,” and “Klein-bottle Clock”: Co-Editor, “Noesis: The Journal of the Mega Society” (10)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/05/22

Abstract

Richard May (“May-Tzu”/“MayTzu”/“Mayzi”) is a Member of the Mega Society based on a qualifying score on the Mega Test (before 1995) prior to the compromise of the Mega Test and Co-Editor of Noesis: The Journal of the Mega Society. In self-description, May states: “Not even forgotten in the cosmic microwave background (CMB), I’m an Amish yuppie, born near the rarified regions of Laputa, then and often, above suburban Boston. I’ve done occasional consulting and frequent Sisyphean shlepping. Kafka and Munch have been my therapists and allies. Occasionally I’ve strived to descend from the mists to attain the mythic orientation known as having one’s feet upon the Earth. An ailurophile and a cerebrotonic ectomorph, I write for beings which do not, and never will, exist — writings for no one. I’ve been awarded an M.A. degree, mirabile dictu, in the humanities/philosophy, and U.S. patent for a board game of possible interest to extraterrestrials. I’m a member of the Mega Society, the Omega Society and formerly of Mensa. I’m the founder of the Exa Society, the transfinite Aleph-3 Society and of the renowned Laputans Manqué. I’m a biographee in Who’s Who in the Brane World. My interests include the realization of the idea of humans as incomplete beings with the capacity to complete their own evolution by effecting a change in their being and consciousness. In a moment of presence to myself in inner silence, when I see Richard May’s non-being, ‘I’ am. You can meet me if you go to an empty room.” Some other resources include Stains Upon the Silence: something for no oneMcGinnis Genealogy of Crown Point, New York: Hiram Porter McGinnisSwines ListSolipsist SoliloquiesBoard GameLulu blogMemoir of a Non-Irish Non-Jew, and May-Tzu’s posterousHe discusses: “Fragments”; “Yaldabaoth is Dead”; “Don’t Take Your Life Personally. It’s Not About You!”; “Event Horizon”; and “Klein-bottle Clock.”

Keywords: C.G. Jung, G.I. Gurdjieff, God, May-Tzu, Nietzsche, P.D. Ouspensky, Richard May, Rupert Sheldrake, Seth Lloyd.

Conversation with Richard May (“May-Tzu”/”MayTzu”/”Mayzi”) on “Fragments,” “Yaldabaoth is Dead,” “Don’t Take Your Life Personally. It’s Not About You!”, “Event Horizon,” and “Klein-bottle Clock”: Co-Editor, “Noesis: The Journal of the Mega Society” (10)

*Please see the references, footnotes, and citations, after the interview, respectively.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Hi! Okay, we’re back-ish. “Fragments” is a complex piece, though brief. In “dances dreams of the dead,” I imagine the dead being nothing, with nothing to dance to or about, and so stillness and emptiness of the ‘howling’ void as the dreams danced about the dead. What are you really getting at there?

Richard May[1],[2]*: ROFL! This little writing epitomizes some of my misunderstandings of G.I. Gurdjieff’s cosmology.

Jacobsen: What is the “devouring moon”?

May: LOL! Gurdjieff said that we were “food for the moon.” Go figure.

Jacobsen: There was an old 20th century science fiction author who tried to speak to a universe with conscious suns and such. I forget the name off the top of my mind. However, the term “star mind” brings this to – ahem – light for me. Is this, in any way, an allusion to this author?

May: no  Read some of Rupert Sheldrake’s works for discussion of possible star minds and galactic minds. Some of Dr. Sheldrake’s material has been banned from TedTalks. He must have a dangerous mind, I suppose.

Jacobsen: Do you know those videos or images of the light from the Sun reflecting less off the Moon as the Moon becomes darker, as the line of light recedes from its surface? The star mind devouring the Orphean strains of the devouring moon with the soul-eyed shadows reminds me of these. The “Endless sun” cycles over billions of years off the surface of the moonscape, the ‘food.’ Throw me a bone because I’m howling at the Moon!

May: The “Endless sun” is a reference to ‘God’ at one of the levels physicality in the cosmos and levels of symbolism. The sun has symbolized God in virtually every culture, as psychologist C.G. Jung has noted. This surreal little writing is based up my misunderstanding of the cosmology of G. I. Gurdjieff. Gurdjieff taught that what he meant literally was taken as an allegory and what he taught as allegory was taken literally. It gets a bit confusing. Some of what he taught is preposterous, e.g., that the moon is going to become another sun. But maybe preposterous was sometimes the point. E.g., “Believe nothing not even yourself.” — G.I. Gurdjieff

Jacobsen: Why title this “Fragments”? 

May: The original title of P. D. Ouspensky’s book In Search for the Miraculous was Fragments of an Unknown Teaching. The publisher preferred the former. Ouspensky, Gurdjieff’s foremost pupil, thought that he did not posses the complete teaching and/or that it was not entirely extant and the teaching was at least to him partially unknown. I repeat, he was Gurdjieff’s foremost pupil.

Jacobsen: “Yaldabaoth is Dead” opens with the line of perpetual unknowability of our ‘inner’ and ‘outer.’ Any statements on the great unknown inner and outer worlds?

May: This little writing is my rendering of the Lord’s Prayer. It begins, perhaps somewhat unconventionally, with Nietzsche’s “God is dead,” using one of the Gnostic names for the God of the Bible, i.e., the Demiurge, a sort of unintelligent, blundering Cosmic Builder.

Jacobsen: Also, “Our Unknown” is not “our unknown,” which seems more accurate. It’s a subtle and important distinction on “Yaldabaoth is Dead.” What is the “Unnameable” set apart from here? (Where is “here,” Scott? I don’t know anymore; I know nothing.)

May: “Our Unknown” is ‘God.’ “The Unnameable” is ‘God’. I think “set apart” is the original meaning of “sacred” in Hebrew.

Jacobsen: “Presence” is, as the others, capitalized, while in the context of “here and now.” The now seems like an interesting one to me. You’re, obviously, a scientifically literate and intelligent person and utilize scientific know-how in the context of poetic statements, where space and time are space-time. “Presence” is “here and now,” in the here-now, ya dig? Are you consciously making these distinctions, or is this more automated based on the rich background in reading about modern physics?

May: Presence is capitalized at the beginning of an almost sentence. I’m not conscious of what is done by me consciously and what unconsciously. I’m rather ignorant of modern physics.

Jacobsen: “As above, so below” is a famous statement, and the “doing” in lower and higher reflects this for me. Do you see a relation between these ideas in “Yaldabaoth is Dead” and the phrase from Hermeticism?

May: Yes, sure, a relationship, but also a rendering of “on Earth as it is in Heaven.”

Jacobsen: What is “transubstantial food”? Is it the insubstantial Catholic form of “transubstantial”?

May: Oh, I don’t know, maybe impressions of something higher than my own illusory-ego identity. I don’t know enough about Catholic dogmas to answer.

Jacobsen: Forgiveness is important. What’s been an important moment of forgiveness in life for you?

May: I forgive you for asking these questions. I forgive entropy and gravitation, for existing. I forgive ‘God’ for sinning against me and my family. I forgive Mother and Father for being f*cked-up human beings, like everyone else. — But can I forgive myself for not forgiving?

Jacobsen: I love the last two lines, quoting you:

And led not into distraction,

but delivered from sleep.

Can you forgive me for being distractible and falling asleep before sending more questions to you, until the next morning, please?

May: Yes, certainly, I can. But you will probably burn in the Hell of the Loving Father for Eternity or at least for the duration of one commercial break.

Jacobsen: “Don’t Take Your Life Personally. It’s Not About You!” has a title almost as long as the content. Bravo! It speaks, to me, to the limits of self-knowledge from recollection, reflections, even contemplative practices. We’re a mystery to ourselves, ultimately. Why does one’s existence preclude publicity of knowledge to oneself and the conveyance of this to others?

May: I first wrote this as irony. What can you take personally, if not your life? Then I realized that it also perfectly embodied certain esoteric ideas; We are food in a cosmic food chain. We may have a purpose in the cosmos that transcends our illusory ego-identity.

Jacobsen: “Event Horizon” plays with terms referencing past and present, and future, and the references to the past and the future. We hope for the future. Yet, the hopes are placed in the past in it. We have a present, “Now,” and it’s placed “too far in the future.” Time’s an illusion, a persistent one; I have it on good authority. Anyhow, is this your physics seeping into the poetry once more, my friend?

May: MIT physicist Seth Loyd thinks that retro-causality from the future to the present can occur and that the past can be changed, I think. But we are rarely present here and now. Now is an imagined future state, ironically. But there is also sarcasm. As ordinarily conceived, we cannot have hope for the past. So how can we have hope for the present? … So this combines ‘physics’, esotericism, and sarcasm. It’s very straight forward.

But actually Event Horizon is the brand name of a delicious high gravity beer!

Jacobsen: “Klein-bottle Clock” is surrealistic, certainly. How many cups of coffee can you make with these eternity-measuring coffee spoons in a tablespoon, even a teaspoon?

May: This writing was inspired by a certain illustrious member of the higher-IQ community who was among those interviewed by a certain well-known publication. When asked what he was doing, he said among other things that he was building an “inside-out clock.”

Doubtless because I have a warped, non-Euclidean mind, this struck me as ridiculous. So as not to be outdone I wrote “Klein-bottle Clock.” The outside of such a clock would be identical with its inside!

Jacobsen: You quote Arthur Schopenhauer in relation to time as one’s life-time and eternity as one’s immortality, which presumes an embedded identity in eternity living out ‘simultaneously’ in the time of one’s life. So, how many coffee cups can you get from this?

May: Not even one at Starbucks.

Jacobsen: How is identity embedded in eternality and terminality?

May: Beats me! Ordinary psychology explains at least to a degree the the origin of our illusory egoic identities. The psychology of Buddhist philosophy and that of G.I. Gurdjieff also deal with this. I doubt that what we regard as our identity is preserved eternally.

Jacobsen: What kind of infinity is eternity?

May: No kind. Eternity is not an infinity, it is not infinite time. Eternity is the condition of being outside of time, e.g., the present moment.

Jacobsen: What kind of finite is a lifetime?

May: The Buddha compare a human lifetime to the duration of a flash of lightening.

Jacobsen: Have you had any difficulties measuring out a mornings cup o’ joe in a lifetime measurement using an eternal coffee spoon? Or is the embedment making it easy to just, you know, reduce the quantification of the grounds in the eternal coffee spoon? 

May: Sorry, I don’t understand the question.

Footnotes

[1] Co-Editor, “Noesis: The Journal of the Mega Society.”

[2] Individual Publication Date: May 22, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/may-10; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Debunking I.Q. Claims Discussion with Chris Cole, Richard May, and Rick Rosner: Member, Mega Society; Co-Editor, “Noesis: The Journal of the Mega Society”; Member, Mega Society (3)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/05/15

Abstract

Chris Cole is a longstanding member of the Mega Society. Richard May is a longstanding member of the Mega Society and Co-Editor of Noesis: The Journal of the Mega Society. Rick Rosner is a longstanding member of the Mega Society and a former editor of Noesis: The Journal of the Mega Society. They discuss: fraudulent activity; messianic posing; criminal behaviour; the three interpenetrating cubes problem; above 4 standard deviations above the norm; the hardest IQ test; and IQ.

Keywords: Chris Cole, IQ, Richard May, Richard Rosner, Mega Society, Mega Test, Titan Test.

Debunking I.Q. Claims Discussion with Chris Cole, Richard May, and Rick Rosner: Member, Mega Society; Co-Editor, “Noesis: The Journal of the Mega Society”; Member, Mega Society (3)

*Please see the references, footnotes, and citations, after the interview, respectively.*

*Rosner section transcribed from audio.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: What would you define as fraudulent activity in a high-IQ community or an individual?

Rick Rosner[1]*: Making claims that you know aren’t supported by your performance on tests.

Chris Cole[2]*: Fraud takes many forms just as it does in common law. Because of the Internet, tests with fixed questions are particularly vulnerable to cheating.

Richard May[3],[4]*: I have nothing to add.

Jacobsen: What would you define as messianic posing in a similar regard?

Rosner: If you end up with a cult, that’s messianic posing.

Cole: The common language definition of messianic behavior will serve. 

May: I have nothing to add.

Jacobsen: Similarly, what about criminal behaviour?

Rosner: If you end up in jail for the rest of your life, if the FBI has a thick dossier on you because you are considered a potential threat in certain ways, that’s criminal behaviour. The FBI has dossiers on lots of people because, historically, the FBI has done good things and asshole things.

So, if they have a dossier on you, because you’re a legitimate psycho who has the potential to do bodily harm to people for some weird political reason, then there you go.

Cole: Again I have nothing to add here to the common language definition of criminal behavior. 

May: I have nothing to add.

Jacobsen: On the Mega Test, why was the three interpenetrating cubes problem seen as the most difficult?

Rosner: It is widely agreed that the three interpenetrating cubes problem was the hardest problem on the test. So, the problem that is agreed upon as likely being the correct answer has not, as far as I know, been proven to be the correct answer.

Interestingly, you can look it up. It depends on what shit is online. But at various times since the ‘90s, it has been agreed upon that the correct answer is floating out there. But you can’t be sure that you’ve found the consensus correct answer.

But the figure, the geometric figure, that corresponds to the consensus correct answer can be found in popular culture, but I won’t tell you where.

Cole: It’s the only problem on the test where the answer that Ron accepts has not been proven. There are a few of these on the Titan.

May: It was the certainly most difficult, but my spatial ability is not sufficiently high to understand why this is so.

Jacobsen: Above 4 standard deviations above the norm, why should there be more scrutiny more than any other cutoff?

Rosner: Isn’t there some claim that “extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence”? You could argue that because claiming to have one of the world’s highest IQs gets you more than claiming to have a 120 IQ.

In practical terms, not so often, it can get you on a quiz show. It can get you on the cover of Esquire magazine. It can get you interviewed. It can get you on TV. It kind of got me laid once. I was going to get laid anyway. But it was part of that package that got me laid, I guess.

Cole: A credible high range score requires credible high range test questions, which are hard to formulate and norm.

May: I have nothing to add.

Jacobsen: What was the hardest IQ test you’ve ever taken in the high-range? What lesson can be learned for test-makers from this?

Rosner: I say that I’ve had a lot of success, but I’d say that I’ve had the most difficulty with Cooijmans’ tests. Because he brings in stuff from a lot of areas. I don’t want to say too much about his tests because he doesn’t want people talking about his tests and helping other people.

But by the time the Mega Test had been published in Omni, it had been through a number of revisions with hinky problems getting knocked out or revised until they were clear and bullet-proof. The answers were tight. I think Cooijmans talks about the pleasure of when an answer clicks into place. That click of satisfaction of when you know you found the answer.

I would say that on some of Cooijmans’ problems. The click is, maybe, not as loud as on some Hoeflin problems. On Cooijmans’ problems, you can find some really good answers that aren’t as good as the intended answer. That’s, maybe, the mark of one type of really good ultra-high-IQ test.

That there are stopping points. On multiple choice tests, those are called distractors. There are answers among the choices that seem right for various reasons if you’re taking desperate stabs at an answer.

On high-IQ tests, you can come up with answers that make a lot of sense. But do they make as much sense as the intended answer? No. But you’ve fallen for an inferior answer. On tough tests, a lot of problems on hard tests are finding the signal among the noise.

I’m writing a book in which somebody or the recipient of what he thinks is a coded message, thinks that it is a true message because it is based on the first letters of four consecutive sentences. That spell out a word.

The odds that this would happen by chance are 26 to the 6th power, which is 676 squared, which is 400,000 to 1. Then you have to knock that down because there are a zillion four-letter words. So, anyway, the odds are tens of thousands to one that it’s not a coded message, especially since it is specific to the character situation.

So, the character reasons that it is likely a true signal. And on a tough IQ problem, you’d like the numerical coincidences to have an unlikelihood of, at least, 1 in a 1,000. When you look at a number sequence, you see a pattern. Then you say, “What are the odds that this pattern would arise by chance?”

On some super-hard IQ problems, there are more than one pattern to be found. Again, you have to ask yourself, “Was this intentional or accidental?” A tough-ass IQ problem really pushes the limit in finding the signal among the noise.

Cole: The only high range test I took was the Mega. 

May: The Mega Test and the L.A.I.T. are the only high range tests I’ve ever taken.
I did not distinguish myself on the latter.

Jacobsen: Is IQ declining in importance now?

Rosner: IQ as IQ is declining in importance because it is a product of the middle of the 20th century when people really believed in it and used it to skip kids a grade, or not, to put them in gifted classes, get admission to magnet schools.

At some point, probably in the ‘50s, you might be able to get laid by your IQ. Since debunked, it has a greasy feeling about it, weirdo, creepazoid. The Cal. State schools, today, decided to get rid of the ACT and SAT altogether and the SAT is an IQ surrogate.

They decided it is not helpful, not worth the shit people go through to prepare for the tests. We can see enough about a student without some IQ surrogate in their admission packet. I’d say intelligence is increasing in importance because we are tiptoeing up to artificial intelligence.

That when we talk about AI – and AI is a misnomer right now; AI means “machine learning.” Eventually, AI will mean “Artificial Intelligence.” We will need ways to mathematicize and to come up with metrics of the power of thought in brains and in other stuff.

So, old school IQ declining; new school AI shit increasing.

Cole: IQ seems to be about as important now as it was when I was young. The SAT has some problems because it has become easy to improve a score via tutoring, but that is being addressed.

May: There is a theoretical possibility that Nature, specifically natural selection might not be entirely “politically correct.” Theoretically there could be differences among human groups that evolved under different conditions. E.g., If only females could bear children, then males would be the expendable ‘gender’. A small number of healthy males could impregnate a large number of females and the group would survive. A large number of males, if males did not bear children, and a small number of females would not allow the group to survive. Hence, there could be more variability among males, including cognitive variability, because males would be more expendable, than among females, i.e., there would be more male ‘geniuses’ and more male idiots.
Fortunately we now realize that there are no biological differences between males and females. Gender is a purely social construct. We now realize that men can menstruate and have babies too, if given a chance. The only important differences are among large numbers of pronouns, all referring to identical nouns.

Footnotes

[1] According to some semi-reputable sources gathered in a listing hereRick G. Rosner may have among America’s, North America’s, and the world’s highest measured IQs at or above 190 (S.D. 15)/196 (S.D. 16) based on several high range test performances created by Christopher HardingJason BettsPaul Cooijmans, and Ronald Hoeflin. He earned 12 years of college credit in less than a year and graduated with the equivalent of 8 majors. He has received 8 Writers Guild Awards and Emmy nominations, and was titled 2013 North American Genius of the Year by The World Genius Directory with the main “Genius” listing here.

He has written for Remote ControlCrank YankersThe Man ShowThe EmmysThe Grammys, and Jimmy Kimmel Live!. He worked as a bouncer, a nude art model, a roller-skating waiter, and a stripper. In a television commercialDomino’s Pizza named him the “World’s Smartest Man.” The commercial was taken off the air after Subway sandwiches issued a cease-and-desist. He was named “Best Bouncer” in the Denver Area, Colorado, by Westwood Magazine.

Rosner spent much of the late Disco Era as an undercover high school student. In addition, he spent 25 years as a bar bouncer and American fake ID-catcher, and 25+ years as a stripper, and nearly 30 years as a writer for more than 2,500 hours of network television. Errol Morris featured Rosner in the interview series entitled First Person, where some of this history was covered by Morris. He came in second, or lost, on Jeopardy!, sued Who Wants to Be a Millionaire? over a flawed question and lost the lawsuit. He won one game and lost one game on Are You Smarter Than a Drunk Person? (He was drunk). Finally, he spent 37+ years working on a time-invariant variation of the Big Bang Theory.

Currently, Rosner sits tweeting in a bathrobe (winter) or a towel (summer). He lives in Los AngelesCalifornia with his wife, dog, and goldfish. He and his wife have a daughter. You can send him money or questions at LanceVersusRick@Gmail.Com, or a direct message via Twitter, or find him on LinkedIn, or see him on YouTube.

[2] Chris Cole is a longstanding member of the Mega Society.

[3] Richard May (“May-Tzu”/“MayTzu”/“Mayzi”) is a Member of the Mega Society based on a qualifying score on the Mega Test (before 1995) prior to the compromise of the Mega Test and Co-Editor of Noesis: The Journal of the Mega Society. In self-description, May states: “Not even forgotten in the cosmic microwave background (CMB), I’m an Amish yuppie, born near the rarified regions of Laputa, then and often, above suburban Boston. I’ve done occasional consulting and frequent Sisyphean shlepping. Kafka and Munch have been my therapists and allies. Occasionally I’ve strived to descend from the mists to attain the mythic orientation known as having one’s feet upon the Earth. An ailurophile and a cerebrotonic ectomorph, I write for beings which do not, and never will, exist — writings for no one. I’ve been awarded an M.A. degree, mirabile dictu, in the humanities/philosophy, and U.S. patent for a board game of possible interest to extraterrestrials. I’m a member of the Mega Society, the Omega Society and formerly of Mensa. I’m the founder of the Exa Society, the transfinite Aleph-3 Society and of the renowned Laputans Manqué. I’m a biographee in Who’s Who in the Brane World. My interests include the realization of the idea of humans as incomplete beings with the capacity to complete their own evolution by effecting a change in their being and consciousness. In a moment of presence to myself in inner silence, when I see Richard May’s non-being, ‘I’ am. You can meet me if you go to an empty room.” Some other resources include Stains Upon the Silence: something for no oneMcGinnis Genealogy of Crown Point, New York: Hiram Porter McGinnisSwines ListSolipsist SoliloquiesBoard GameLulu blogMemoir of a Non-Irish Non-Jew, and May-Tzu’s posterous.

[4] Individual Publication Date: May 15, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/debunking-3; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

The American Medical System and Physicians 2: Professor Benoit Desjardins, MD, PhD, FAHA, FACR, FNASCI on the Poor Working Conditions for American Physicians

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/05/15

Abstract

Professor Benoit Desjardins, MD, PhD, FAHA, FACR, FNASCI is an Ivy League academic physician and scientist at the University of Pennsylvania. He is a member of the Mega Society, the OlympIQ Society and past member of the Prometheus Society. He is the designer of the cryptic Mega Society logo. He is member of several scientific societies and a Fellow of the American College of Radiology and of the American Heart Association. He is the co-Founder of the Arrhythmia Imaging Research (AIR) lab at Penn. His research is funded by the National Institute of Health. He is an international leader in three different fields: cardiovascular imaging, artificial intelligence and cybersecurity. He discusses: the poor working treatment of physicians in the United States; exposing the treatment of physicians; the biggest inroads in sheer viewership or consumption; productions; other proposals at every medical center hypothesized to help with the issue of overwork; the simple and obvious solution; working 36 hours in one period; working 90-100 hours in a week; the social life of the physicians; cruelty; patients kill their physicians; the level of burn out; some of the more egregious examples of (mis-)treatment of physicians; deceased or now-disabled colleagues; human rights violations; International Labour Organization; common statements from physicians; humane working conditions; and the future of the American healthcare system.

Keywords: American, Benoit Desjardins, death, Medicine, physicians, science, United States, working conditions.

The American Medical System and Physicians 2: Professor Benoit Desjardins, MD, PhD, FAHA, FACR, FNASCI on the Poor Working Conditions for American Physicians

*Please see the references, footnotes, and citations, after the interview, respectively.*

*This interview represents Dr. Desjardins’ opinion, combined to the current content of the published medical literature, and not necessarily the opinion of his employers.*

On the work conditions of U.S. physicians

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: What was the earliest known, to you, exposure to the poor working treatment of physicians in the United States?

Dr. Benoit Desjardins[1],[2]*: I realized it as soon as I started my training in the U.S. when I was forced to work 68h without sleep. I had been on call at the hospital two nights in a row, had worked 58 consecutive hours without rest, and was driving back home. As I crashed into my bed, I received a phone call from my chief resident asking me why I was not at the hospital as I was on call again for a third night in a row. I was unaware of it and explained the situation. He ordered me to get back to work. I drove back exhausted to the hospital and could have easily been killed in a car accident. I worked ten additional consecutive hours until I crashed on the call room floor. They found me unconscious later that morning. It was my first exposure to the poor working conditions of U.S. physicians.

Jacobsen: Who have been the most vocal people about exposing the treatment of physicians from 50 years ago to 10 years ago?

Desjardins: In the U.S., it was common for post-MD medical trainees (called “residents”) to work 90-100 hours per week and up to 36 hours without rest. In March 1984, 18-yo Libby Zion died at a New York hospital from a prescription error by a resident doing a 36h shift. It led to an investigation on the effect of resident fatigue on patient safety. New regulations were passed in 1987 limiting residents in New York to work no more than 80h per week and no more than 24 consecutive hours. In 2003, the ACGME (the body regulating medical training in the U.S.) extended the rule to all residents. They also limited resident calls to once every third night and implemented one day off per week. For comparison, in Europe, residents cannot work more than 48h per week. Note that these new rules only apply to residents in training, not to the U.S. practicing physicians who regularly work up to 120h per week and up to 72 consecutive hours without sleep.

Jacobsen: Of various productions about the issue, what ones seem to have made the biggest inroads in sheer viewership or consumption?

Desjardins: Around ten years ago, some physicians started to expose the poor working conditions of U.S. physicians. Dr. Pamela Wible noticed an epidemic of suicide among physicians, and she began accumulating data. So far, she has documented 1620 suicides of physicians caused by their poor working conditions, a clear underestimate of the true incidence of the problem. She publicized her results in a TED talk (“Why doctors kill themselves,” March 23, 2016), maintains a blog, and wrote books on the poor treatment of U.S. physicians. Since then, many articles, blogs, books, medical conferences, and documentary movies have covered the poor treatment of U.S. physicians. As a result of these initiatives, physician wellness is now a topic addressed by every U.S. hospital and medical school.

Jacobsen: There will be variations on a theme with the presentation of the same legitimate complaint of overwork and poor working conditions for U.S. physicians. However, some will ‘get’ it more. In that, they’ll hit the message and the reality, correctly. Which productions have been the most incisive and factually accurate?

Desjardins: On April 8, 2019, the New York Times published the op-ed article “The Business of Health Care Depends on Exploiting Doctors and Nurses” by Dr. Danielle Ofri. The op-ed discussed how the U.S. exploits healthcare workers with poor working conditions that would be unacceptable in other fields and countries. In June 2019, Dr. Pamela Wible wrote a book entitled “Human Rights Violations in Medicine,” tabulating and illustrating with real examples 40 different ways in which the U.S. violates the fundamental human rights of its physicians. It includes sleep deprivation, food deprivation, water deprivation, overwork, exploitation, bullying, punishment when sick, violence, no mental health care, etc. In 2018, Robyn Symon produced a documentary movie on physician suicide and poor working conditions entitled “Do no harm” (donoharmfilm.com). It is available for rent on Amazon and Vimeo. In 2004, Dr. Kevin Pho created a blog (KevinMD.com) on physician issues. Several recent articles and interviews on his blog have focused on the poor working conditions of U.S. physicians.

Jacobsen: What are other proposals at every medical center hypothesized to help with the issue of overwork akin to yoga mats?

Desjardins: The U.S. lacks interest in identifying and solving real problems. It goes well beyond healthcare and applies to poverty, violence, corruption, gun control, climate change, etc. Band-Aid solutions are proposed, and the root causes of problems are rarely addressed. Physician working conditions are treated similarly. Every hospital and medical school is now addressing physician wellness, given the massive levels of physician burnout. They discuss yoga mats, meditation, eating healthy, exercising, and sleeping well. But they don’t address 120h work weeks, 72 consecutive hours call shifts without rest and lack of access to food and water, physicians dying on the job, getting strokes on the job, destroying their health.

Jacobsen: Have any tried the simple and obvious solution by taking issue with the prefix “over-” in “overwork” to deal with overwork of physicians? 

Desjardins: No. There is a lack of interest in identifying the real problems and offering needed solutions. There is only one solution to the overwork of U.S. physicians: getting more physicians (or physician equivalent healthcare workers). The U.S. has 2.6 physicians per 1000 people (WorldBank data). The European Union has 4.9, ranging from 3.7 in the Netherlands to 8.0 in Italy, with much healthier populations. Despite the smaller number of physicians in the U.S., the country has the highest healthcare costs globally: $11K per capita in the U.S., compared to $5K per capita in the European Union. If the U.S. increased its population of physicians, the costs would rise since U.S. medicine is a business with unlimited spending. Hospitals have started to explore substituting physicians with less qualified healthcare workers to decrease costs. The frightening consequences of this approach have been well documented in the 2020 book by Dr. Al-Agba and Dr. Bernard, “Patients at Risk: The Rise of the Nurse Practitioner and Physician Assistant in Healthcare.” The book provides examples of poorly trained N.P.s and P.A.s, allowed to perform physician-level decisions and actions, resulting in preventable patient deaths.

Jacobsen: If working 36 hours in one period, what are the impacts, known in medicine and psychology, on the human brain?

Desjardins: Lack of sleep for 24h is, according to the CDC, equivalent to having a blood alcohol content of 0.10, higher than the legal driving limit of 0.08. Among the many side effects, it creates drowsiness, impaired judgment, impaired memory, reduced coordination, increased stress level, and the brain shutting down neurons in some regions. Lack of sleep for 48h affects cognition. The brain enters brief periods of complete unconsciousness known as microsleep, lasting several seconds. Lack of sleep for 72h will have more profound effects on mood and cognition and can lead to paranoia. Chronic sleep deprivation has a lasting impact on general health and creates high blood pressure, obesity, diabetes, heart disease, and depression.

Jacobsen: If working 90-100 hours in one week, what are the impacts, known in medicine and psychology, on the human body?

Desjardins: In a 2021 study by WHO and ILO, long working hours (> 55h/week) led to 398 000 deaths from stroke (35% risk increase) and 347 000 deaths from ischemic heart disease (17% risk increase). Dr. Maria Neira from WHO stated that “Working 55 hours or more per week is a serious health hazard“. Now imagine how much worst of a hazard for physicians forced to work more than 55 consecutive hours without rest. I cannot find any studies specifically looking at the health effects of 90-100 hours workweeks. Japan has the term “karoshi” to describe death by overwork, and employers are held criminally responsible for such deaths. No such laws exist in the U.S.

Jacobsen: Obviously, when everyone is stressed out and overworked in, sometimes, life-and-death circumstances, it is difficult to make an argument for consistent civility and reasonable social engagement. How do these working conditions – and work expectations – impact the social life of the physicians amongst one another, and the physician-to-patient interaction?

Desjardins: Overwork increases the divorce rate in female physicians, not in male physicians. Many physicians do not have much social life since they work constantly. They mainly interact with other physicians at work, not outside work. Sometimes burned-out overworked physicians have been rude to their patients, especially surgeons.

Jacobsen: Something easily wading beneath the surface here: Cruelty. People aren’t going to behave nicely, sometimes, in high-stress environments, where their life and livelihood are under question, including the health care worker. Although, it’s asymmetrical on oath alone.

Physicians take the Hippocratic Oath; the general public’s patients don’t. Also, a larger aspect is institutions. How were physician friends killed in the midst of maltreatment due to working conditions in medical institutions? How have physician friends been permanently disabled due to the work conditions?

Desjardins: Thousands of U.S. physicians have been killed or disabled because of poor working conditions. It has been extensively described in the literature. In my circle of colleagues, which extends beyond my current institution, three of my close radiology colleagues have been killed, all in their 30s, and many have been disabled for life. One was killed at work under circumstances that are still hidden. Two were killed in car accidents after driving back home in the middle of the night after their workday, completely exhausted. A colleague developed a stroke during his workday resulting in a permanent physical handicap. Another colleague was on his 97th hour of work on a week in which he was not allowed to sleep much or eat much. His body failed under these poor working conditions, and he became blind during work. He was rushed to the E.R., where they diagnosed a work-condition induced hypertensive urgency with bilateral optic nerve damage. They pumped him full of medication until part of his vision returned. But he remains physically disabled for life due to the poor working conditions.

Jacobsen: How many patients kill their physicians every year in the United States? How does this compare to other countries with metrics if any?

Desjardins: There are, unfortunately, no statistics on that. In my city, physicians are frequently assaulted by their patients. Some have been stabbed in the face, and some have been killed. The local news media almost always downplay it. Physicians are killed in other countries, too, notably in China. Physician suicides from the poor U.S. working conditions are also downplayed. When a physician jumps from the roof of their hospital, the local authorities simply throw a tarp over the body and don’t report it in the news media. Hospitals simply do not want the bad publicity from having a series of physicians jumping to their death from the roof of their hospital due to poor working conditions, like what recently happened in some N.Y. hospitals.

Jacobsen: What is the level of burn out in your field? What is the formal definition of “burn out” – whatever terms people want to use to describe physicians simply being taxed beyond reasonable limits and – not even requested – demanded to work more, as in your case?

Desjardins: The current level of burnout in my field is up to 70%. There has been a debate on whether physicians experience burnout, moral injury, or basic human rights violations. Burnout means physical and mental collapse from overwork. Moral injury indicates damage to one’s conscience when witnessing horrible conditions violating one’s moral beliefs or code of conduct. In 1948 the U.N. General Assembly adopted a Universal Declaration of Human Rights, a standard for properly treating human beings. Human rights violations are violations of the rules in this declaration. Physicians experience all three categories of injuries: burnout, moral injury, and human rights violations. It is a symptom of a toxic healthcare system, with working conditions massively out of compliance with safe labor laws from all other industries.

Jacobsen: What are some of the more egregious examples of (mis-)treatment of physicians?

Desjardins: There are many examples in the literature. Some U.S. physicians are forced to work up to 72 consecutive hours without rest. In my circle of colleagues, which extends well beyond my current institution, many of my colleagues experienced mistreatment. A physician friend recently started a new job in breast imaging. At the end of her first workday, which included a half-day orientation, they put her on probation for not reading her daily quota of 100 studies. At the end of her second workday, she became more proficient with her new work tools and read 98 studies, two studies short of her daily quota. They fired her immediately. Another physician friend was starting a new radiology job and went to lunch at the hospital cafeteria on her first day. She was forcibly dragged back to her work cubicle before eating a single bite, yelled at by administrators, and told physicians in her practice are not allowed to eat during the workday. Many physicians are required to work non-stop with no breaks for eating and no bathroom breaks and finish their regular workday in the middle of the night. They sometimes must sleep on the floor of their office at the hospital as there is not enough time to return home before their next shift. Dr. Pamela Wible identified several extreme examples of mistreatment: physicians being forced to work during a miscarriage or a seizure, surgeons collapsing on their patients because of dehydration and hypoglycemia because of their lack of access to food and water during work, and physicians falling asleep on their patient during medical rounds due to massive exhaustion.

Jacobsen: When speaking of your deceased or now-disabled colleagues, what happens to a body as parts of it simply shut down, especially in, basically, peak health years, e.g., the 30s?

Desjardins: For deceased colleagues, their body gets cremated or eaten by worms. For disabled colleagues, their health remains affected by the damage to their bodies for the remaining of their lives and deteriorates faster as they get older. They develop chronic diseases, such as high blood pressure, sooner than other workers, making their bodies deteriorate faster and increasing morbidity and mortality.

Jacobsen: For the UDHR, what human rights violations are discussed the most in the literature?

Desjardins: I would say violations of Article 23 (Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favorable conditions of work), Article 24 (Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working hours), and Article 25 (Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food).

Jacobsen: Is the International Labour Organization, in any way, involved in rectifying these working conditions? Are there any countries anywhere with comparable working conditions, though, perhaps, lacking the advanced expertise and technological sophistication of the U.S.?

Desjardins: Among the risks for physicians identified by the ILO is “Physical and mental fatigue stemming from the specific conditions of this work” and “Danger of being violently attacked by unsatisfied patients.” So, the ILO has identified some of the risks and has proposed some solutions (Improving employment and working conditions in health services, 2017). In that paper, they discuss the European Union 2003 Working Time Directive, setting work limits to 48h per week, minimum daily rest periods of 11h, weekly rest of 35h, and allowing derogations for some doctors. They do not discuss the working conditions of U.S. physicians. Every country has different working conditions for physicians. India, China, and African Countries have difficult working conditions, given limited access to medical technology and the low physician to population ratios. But among the most industrialized countries (G-20), the U.S. and China have the worst working conditions for physicians.

Jacobsen: What are common statements from physicians about the working conditions? The emotional and psychological states rather than the facts and figures of the situation from colleagues who have survived, and continue survive, the insufferable work environment expectations.

Desjardins: The physician workforce has undergone a progressive zombification as it evolved within the current system. Physicians develop learned powerlessness to affect the system and deference to authority. They understand that working 72 consecutive hours without sleep is illegal and inhumane in every other profession except their own but are forced to do it by their hospital administration. They know that they will continue to become victims of crimes committed by corrupt prosecutors. They understand that the U.S. population is strongly anti-physicians and anti-science and will never be their ally. They know that the U.S. healthcare system is collapsing faster than anyone predicted. So, they bear the insufferable work environment and count the days until they can afford to abandon their medical careers or die on the job.

Jacobsen: Have American physicians simply left states to other states, even to other countries for humane working conditions?

Desjardins: Definitely. Physicians frequently move out of state because of working conditions. In some departments, large portions of several divisions leave en masse to practice elsewhere or abandon their medical career. Most would like to move out of the U.S. into countries with better working conditions for physicians, such as Canada, the U.K., or European Union countries, but immigration and licensure issues prevent them from moving abroad.

Jacobsen: What does this bode for the future of the American healthcare system?

Desjardins: The American healthcare system is collapsing. A massive shortage of healthcare workers is rapidly worsening, made even worse by the treatment of U.S. healthcare workers during the recent pandemic. The three-year probation time recently imposed by a judge on a massively overworked nurse for a fatal mistake will likely have a massive negative impact. These factors decrease the interest of foreign healthcare workers to move to the U.S., reduce the appeal of Americans to enter the medical field and make healthcare workers retire earlier. They have caused the development of healthcare deserts in 80% of the counties in the U.S., which lack access to the medical workforce, hospitals, or pharmacies. The present situation is bleak, but the future will be even more dismal.

Footnotes

[1] Academic Physician; Member, OlympIQ Society; Member, Mega Society.

[2] Individual Publication Date: May 15, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/american-medicine-2; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2022: https://in-sightpublishing.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Tianxi Yu (余天曦) on His Life, Scores, and Views: Member, Chinese Genius Directory (1)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/05/22

Abstract

Tianxi Yu (余天曦) is a Member of CatholIQ, Chinese Genius Directory, EsoterIQ Society, Nano Society, World Genius Directory. He discusses: growing up; family legacy; family background; experience with peers and schoolmates; certifications, qualifications, and trainings; purpose of intelligence tests; high intelligence; geniuses; greatest geniuses; a genius from a profoundly intelligent person; profound intelligence; work experiences and jobs; particular job path; myths; the God concept; science; the tests taken and scores earned; the range of the scores; ethical philosophy; social philosophy; economic philosophy; political philosophy; worldview-encompassing philosophical system; ethical philosophy; meaning in life; various disciplines of family member; a particular area of medicine; digital currency theory; the two SCI papers; Japanese; time spent on each test on average; achieve in life; high creativity; “God” the first in a certain field; religion; Mahir Wu; mainstream intelligence tests; money; a life with meaning; pursue “all areas in different subjects”; medicine; proposed immortality; oxidative stress; anime; Comiket; hardest test; easiest test; imagination; attitudes, personally, about religion; the “beauty of logic”; a meaningful life; focus on meaning; immortality; finiteness of human life; the “spirit immortal”; “spirit immortal” seem convincing; an atheist; alternative tests; exhibits at Comiket; Death Numbers; “Death Numbers”; solved all items on Numerus Classic in one week; the first place; Death Numbers; developing numerical alternative tests; find a meaning in life; some of the kings/bosses; great achievements in the world; particular thinkers or philosophers from the West; particular thinkers or philosophers from the East; American President Trump; CCP Leader Xi Jinping; world leader who impresses; and money.

Keywords: China, intelligence, I.Q., Tianxi Yu.

 Conversation with Tianxi Yu (余天曦) on His Life, Scores, and Views: Member, Chinese Genius Directory (1)

*Please see the references, footnotes, and citations, after the interview, respectively.*

*Interview conducted December 23, 2020 to December 31, 2020.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: When you were growing up, what were some of the prominent family stories being told over time?

Tianxi Yu (余天曦)[1],[2]*: 1999/10/13. Nothing impressive.

Jacobsen: Have these stories helped provide a sense of an extended self or a sense of the family legacy?

Yu: No, all the experiences happened at the right time and place.

Jacobsen: What was the family background, e.g., geography, culture, language, and religion or lack thereof?

Yu: My family are all intellectuals, and they work in various fields. No other background.

Jacobsen: How was the experience with peers and schoolmates as a child and an adolescent?

Yu: Not very good, bad sometimes.

Jacobsen: What have been some professional certifications, qualifications, and trainings earned by you?

Yu: I don’t even have a college diploma hhh. I am a medical student, and studying electrowetting technology, digital currency theory and economics, biochemistry, physical medicine and so on. After I publish two SCI papers, I intend to study mathematics. I am also studying Japanese and intend to take the JLPT examination next year.

Jacobsen: What is the purpose of intelligence tests to you?

Yu: Having fun! I like to do intelligence tests when I’m resting. It’s relaxing for me. So I only do interesting tests.

Jacobsen: When was high intelligence discovered for you?

Yu: A year and a half ago.

Jacobsen: When you think of the ways in which the geniuses of the past have either been mocked, vilified, and condemned if not killed, or praised, flattered, platformed, and revered, what seems like the reason for the extreme reactions to and treatment of geniuses? Many alive today seem camera shy – many, not all.

Yu: Maybe they didn’t meet other people’s expectations or come to different conclusions. The second situation is the opposite. I don’t dare to tell others that I have high IQ now, because I haven’t made corresponding achievements.

Jacobsen: Who seem like the greatest geniuses in history to you?

Yu: I don’t know.

Jacobsen: What differentiates a genius from a profoundly intelligent person?

Yu: Genius has high creativity, profoundly intelligent person has high understanding.

Jacobsen: Is profound intelligence necessary for genius?

Yu: No.

Jacobsen: What have been some work experiences and jobs held by you?

Yu: What experience can an undergraduate have…Can working in the laboratory be an experience?hhh

Jacobsen: Why pursue this particular job path?

Yu: For postgraduate.

Jacobsen: What are some of the more important aspects of the idea of the gifted and geniuses? Those myths that pervade the cultures of the world. What are those myths? What truths dispel them?

Yu: Gifted. I don’t know much about myths, and I don’t believe in them.

Jacobsen: Any thoughts on the God concept or gods idea and philosophy, theology, and religion?

Yu: “God” for me is the first in a certain field, I am an atheist.

Jacobsen: How much does science play into the worldview for you?

Yu: 100%.

Jacobsen: What have been some of the tests taken and scores earned (with standard deviations) for you?

Yu: Death Numbers, Mahir Wu,28/30,IQ 200 SD15

NISA128, Mahir Wu,121.5/128, IQ191.5 SD15

N-World, Mahir Wu, 48/48, IQ190 SD15

Numerus, Ivan Ivec, 29/30, IQ190 SD15

Jacobsen: What is the range of the scores for you? The scores earned on alternative intelligence tests tend to produce a wide smattering of data points rather than clusters, typically.

Yu: IQ180~200.

Jacobsen: What ethical philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Yu: Ethical philosophythat make me money.

Jacobsen: What social philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Yu: Social philosophythat make me money

Jacobsen: What economic philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Yu: Economic philosophythat make me money.

Jacobsen: What political philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Yu: Political philosophythat make me money.

Jacobsen: What worldview-encompassing philosophical system makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Yu: Well provided.

Jacobsen: What ethical philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Yu: Ethical philosophy that make me money.

Jacobsen: What provides meaning in life for you?

Yu: Living.

Jacobsen: What are some of the various disciplines of family member? Those places of work and/or study. 

Yu: No family disciplines.

Jacobsen: Do you intend to specialize in a particular area of medicine?

Yu: I’m going to try all areas in different subjects.

Jacobsen: What areas of medicine most interest you?

Yu: Immortality.

Jacobsen: Why does digital currency theory interest you?

Yu: It’s the future.

Jacobsen: What will be the research in the two SCI papers? 

Yu: Oxidative stress and digital currency, maybe.

Jacobsen: Why choose to study Japanese? 

Yu: しゅみです, I like watching anime, going to Comiket.

Jacobsen: How much time do you spend on each test on average?

Yu: Depend on the authors and difficulties. Most tests take two or three days, and the most difficult tests may take about one year.

Jacobsen: What do you hope to achieve in life?

Yu: Have enough money.

Jacobsen: What factors make up the “high creativity” required for genius?

Yu: Imagination.

Jacobsen: How is “God” the first in a certain field?

Yu: Far exceed the second place.

Jacobsen: As an atheist, what reasons make the most sense of this?

Yu: Our country is not affected by religion.

Jacobsen: Why focus on Mahir Wu’s tests?

Yu: I think his test is the best in the world. He expressed the beauty of logic to a very high level. I didn’t find this in the tests of other well-known authors.

Jacobsen: Have you taken mainstream intelligence tests? For example, the WAIS, the Stanford-Binet, the RAPM, etc. 

Yu: No, our country doesn’t advocate IQ, so we haven’t tested it in hospital. And the thinking depth of those tests are quite low. They don’t have deep thinking like high-range tests.

Jacobsen: Why care mostly about money regarding ethics, social philosophy, economics, and politics?

Yu: Economic base decides the superstructure.

Jacobsen: How do you intend to live a life with meaning?

Yu: Happiness is the core of a meaningful life.

Jacobsen: Why pursue “all areas in different subjects” rather than specialize?

Yu: Because I haven’t found the area I’m interested in.

Jacobsen: Why “immortality” regarding medicine? 

Yu: Medical technology may make human body immortal

Jacobsen: What are some ways in which proposed immortality can be attained to you?

Yu: I can’t say this casually. As far as I know, many directions about immortality can’t be achieved at present. I understand “immortality” in three ways: the body immortal; do not need the body as a carrier, through physical means to achieve thought immortal; the spirit immortal.

Jacobsen: Why focus on oxidative stress?

Yu: I have no choice, I’m just an undergraduate. It’s not easy to find a tutor. I can only write whatever direction the tutor gives me.

Jacobsen: What anime do you like most?

Yu: 君の名は.

Jacobsen: What is Comiket?

Yu: Japan’s largest animate exhibition, コミケ.

Jacobsen: What was the hardest test taken to date?

Yu: Death Numbers by Mahir Wu, and it’s the best test I think.

Jacobsen: What was the easiest test taken to date?

Yu: Numerus Classic by Ivan Ivec. It took me one week to solve all items.

Jacobsen: Anything else other than “imagination”?

Yu: Yes, but it’s not worth mentioning under the imagination.

Jacobsen: Any attitudes, personally, about religion?

Yu: I agree, but I don’t accept. If I am the worshiped person of religioner, please forget my previous sentence hhh.

Jacobsen: Can you explain more the “beauty of logic”?

Yu: It’s hard to describe. Simply, it is the numbers beauty that reflected in the case of concise and rigorous logic. Take a simple example: 8127, 2187,1827,? (Mahir Wu’s question,got his permission).Many people’s first reaction is shift, but they can not get the correct answer. But through observation, we can find that: 81×27=2187,21×87=1827. From this we can get the answer. First, if you find this logic, you will be very sure of the answer, the logic is very rigorous and concise. Then, isn’t it beautiful that the numbers of product doesn’t change?

Jacobsen: What else is important for a meaningful life?

Yu: I don’t know. I haven’t found the meaning of life now.

Jacobsen: Why focus on meaning, as in a meaningful life?

Yu: I don’t know. It’s too difficult for me.

Jacobsen: What if medical technology fails in this immortality endeavour? Is it wasted time?

Yu: This process is enough for me to enjoy, even if I fail.

Jacobsen: Do you think the finiteness of human life gives it meaning?

Yu:  I’m not the creator. I don’t know the specific answer, but you can think about it: is the life of bacteria meaningful?

Jacobsen: What do you mean by the “spirit immortal”? 

Yu: Be remembered by the world.

Jacobsen: Does this “spirit immortal” seem convincing to you, or not?

Yu: Not.

Jacobsen: Doesn’t an atheist position, typically, mean only the first two options? The body immortality and not needing the body as a carrier. 

Yu: The atheists that I understand is not believe in Christian God or Catholic Jesus, the unexplained God of science. What I mean is to do it in a scientific way. For example, quantum computers can be used to connect neural networks to carry human thoughts.

Jacobsen: Are the alternative tests a way to exercise the mind when it’s “not easy to find a tutor”?

Yu: You can think so.

Jacobsen: What exhibits at Comiket most interest you?

Yu: Buy my favorite painters’ works and my favourite anime’s unique souvenir.

Jacobsen: How long did Mahir Wu take to develop Death Numbers?

Yu: If you mean propaganda, in my impression, he didn’t deliberately do it.

Jacobsen: Why is it called “Death Numbers”?

Yu: Because it’s very difficult.

Jacobsen: What was the response from the high-range testing community when you solved all items on Numerus Classic in one week?

Yu: No much response. Because I didn’t show it off.

Jacobsen: I asked, “Any thoughts on the God concept or gods idea and philosophy, theology, and religion?” You said. “God” for me is the first in a certain field, I am an atheist.” I asked, “How is “God” the first in a certain field?” You said, “Far exceed the second place.” I asked, “As an atheist, what reasons make the most sense of this?” You said, “Our country is not affected by religion.” I asked, “Any attitudes, personally, about religion?” You said, “I agree, but I don’t accept. If I am the worshiped person of religioner, please forget my previous sentence.” Can you expand on the responses and meanings in those responses, please? What ties them together as an atheist?

Yu: I mean atheists don’t believe in virtual gods. I use the concept of God to refer to the first place. Besides “God”, I can also use other expressions to address the first place, such as “king”, “boss” and so on. It’s a tribute to those who have made great achievements in the real world.

Jacobsen: Logic manifested in complex symmetries seems beautiful to me, too. How long did Mahir Wu take to create Death Numbers?

Yu: He said he didn’t remember. NIT is the predecessor of DN, maybe one year?

Jacobsen: When did Mahir Wu begin developing numerical alternative tests?

Yu: He said from 2014, when he was in junior high school. From then on, he began to set tests.

Jacobsen: Do you think that you have to find a meaning in life, fundamentally? Is it necessary?

Yu: Yes, very necessary, otherwise it’s boring.

Jacobsen: Who do you consider some of the kings/bosses? Those who have “made great achievements in the real world.” 

Yu: Chen-Ning Yang, Paul Seymour, etc.

Jacobsen: What great achievements in the world do you consider the greatest?  

Yu: Let the world think I’m the greatest.

Jacobsen: Do any particular thinkers or philosophers from the West influence you?

Yu: When I was a child, I read some people’s books, such as Russell, Freud, Descartes and so on, but later I didn’t read them. After one’s own thoughts are established, the thoughts of others are meaningless.

Jacobsen: Do any particular thinkers or philosophers from the East influence you?  

Yu: No, but I often do it in exams, such as Confucius, Lao-tzu, Zhuangzi and so on.To be honest, I was still interested in them at the beginning, but when I immersed in their tests, they made me disgusted.

Jacobsen: What do you think of American President Trump?

Yu: He is an undercover agent sent by the great People’s Republic of China. He has accomplished the task very well. I hope he will be re elected.doge

Jacobsen: What do you think of CCP Leader Xi Jinping?

Yu: He is a great president and will lead China’s Renaissance.

Jacobsen: What world leader impresses you?

Yu: Abraham Lincoln.

Jacobsen: How do you hope to make a lot of money?

Yu: Investment, stock speculation, writing papers to earn bonus, founding a company and so on, all of which I have been implementing.

Footnotes

[1] Member, CatholIQ; Member, Chinese Genius Directory; Member, EsoterIQ Society; Member, Nano Society; Member, World Genius Directory.

[2] Individual Publication Date: May 22, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/yu-1; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2022: https://in-sightpublishing.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

The American Medical System and Physicians 1: Professor Benoit Desjardins, MD, PhD, FAHA, FACR, FNASCI on the U.S. Medical System, and American Patients and Physicians

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/05/08

Abstract

Professor Benoit Desjardins, MD, PhD, FAHA, FACR, FNASCI is an Ivy League academic physician and scientist at the University of Pennsylvania. He is a member of the Mega Society, the OlympIQ Society and past member of the Prometheus Society. He is the designer of the cryptic Mega Society logo. He is member of several scientific societies and a Fellow of the American College of Radiology and of the American Heart Association. He is the co-Founder of the Arrhythmia Imaging Research (AIR) lab at Penn. His research is funded by the National Institute of Health. He is an international leader in three different fields: cardiovascular imaging, artificial intelligence and cybersecurity. He discusses: science; medicine; limits of science as applied to medicine; science fiction or science fact; human lifespan; the values of the medical field within the United States; venture capital firms decided to make medicine a business; venture capital firms; businesses made to appeal to patients with higher incomes; CEOs; American medicine; ignorance masquerading as knowledge comes to blows with evidence-based expertise; the lower strata of the educational and authority hierarchy in medical facilities; values and preferences of cultures; American patients different than others; American patients similar to others; pressure from administration towards physicians; rudest versions of this hotel mindset of American patients; American virtues; violent hysterics against Dr. Fauci; great examples of American ignorance; and mutually reinforcing trends.

Keywords: American, Benoit Desjardins, Dr. Fauci, incomes, Medicine, physicians, science, United States, venture capital firms.

The American Medical System and Physicians 1: Professor Benoit Desjardins, MD, PhD, FAHA, FACR, FNASCI on the U.S. Medical System, and American Patients and Physicians

*Please see the references, footnotes, and citations, after the interview, respectively.*

*This interview represents Dr. Desjardins’ opinion, combined to the current content of the published medical literature, and not necessarily the opinion of his employers.*

On science and medicine

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Let’s start by defining terms, what is science?

Dr. Benoit Desjardins[1],[2]*: From Webster, science is the knowledge about general truths or general laws obtained and tested by the scientific method. The scientific method provides a set of principles for the pursuit of knowledge. It involves formulating a problem, collecting data by observation and experimentation, and formulating and testing hypotheses.

Jacobsen: What is medicine? 

Desjardins: From Webster, medicine is both a science and an art, dealing with health maintenance and the prevention, alleviation, or cure of disease. It used to be primarily an art, but it has become firmly based on science as science evolved.

Jacobsen: What is a physician? How does a physician differ from other terms of professionals within medicine?

Desjardins: A physician is someone educated, experienced, and licensed to practice the science of medicine. The difference between physicians and other healthcare professionals is becoming less clear with time, as other professionals take on more and more of the responsibilities of physicians.

Jacobsen: What are the ultimate limits of science as applied to medicine?

Desjardins: Nobody knows. Science progresses constantly, and new scientific discoveries that positively impact medicine are produced every year. There are often tradeoffs limiting the applicability of some scientific advances to medicine. Let’s take an example from my field. There have been advances in cross-sectional imaging to image humans at extremely high spatial resolution. Flat-plate CT scanners can do that but require more radiation, which is a limiting factor for human imaging. As a result, they are mainly used to image small animals.

Jacobsen: Some make extravagant, though grounded in the natural rather than the supernatural, claims about longevity post-human or trans-human states of human life, e.g., Ray Kurzweil. Where, indefinite lifespans for humans are realized and ideal health statuses are attained. What’s the current front on this, more science fiction or science fact?

Desjardins: I have no expertise in this area. I see it as science fiction.

Jacobsen: What fields show the greatest promise in helping extend average human lifespan and ‘healthspan’ in real terms?

Desjardins: I have no expertise in this area.

On practicing medicine in the U.S.

Jacobsen: What are the values of the medical field within the United States? How does this differ from other fields?

Desjardins: There are values related to the patient, including compassion, respect, and justice. Other values are related to the physician, including a commitment to excellence, integrity, and ethics. Physicians take a Hippocratic Oath and swear to uphold specific ethical standards. It differs from other fields. Healthcare is, however, a business in the U.S., which creates conflicts with some of its values. For example, many medical practices start with noble goals, trying to help their community with devoted, caring physicians who will do whatever is best to help their patients. These practices sometimes get bought by venture capital firms. After the purchase, physicians become indentured servants, forced to perform massive amounts of work (e.g., seeing one patient every five minutes). They are forced to do whatever is best to maximize shareholders’ and investors’ profits at the expense of quality of care and consequences to physicians’ health.

Jacobsen: At some point, venture capital firms decided to make medicine a business. Is there a documented timeline of this?

Desjardins: Venture capital firms started buying physicians and medical practices in the late 1980s, a growing phenomenon.

Jacobsen: When do venture capital firms decide, in the life cycle of nobly aimed medical facility, to buy them out now? It must be a systematic process now, as it’s been done so much.

Desjardins: I am not familiar with the field of business, but they seem to buy them when they are profitable or have the potential to become profitable from the exploitation of physicians.

Jacobsen: Since medicine became more of a business than less of one, what are some choices the businesses made to appeal to patients with higher incomes, where these have nothing to do with medicine, saving lives, or better health, simply appealing to the culture of the wealthy or, at least, the rich?

Desjardins: Some hospitals offer entire floors reserved for wealthy patients, with hotel-like amenities in their rooms and increased access to services and physicians, a limousine drive from the airport, and lodging for patients’ families.

Jacobsen: How do CEOs and others interact with physicians?

Desjardins: CEOs have minimal direct interactions with physicians. They often provide mass emails to their entire medical center staff updating everyone on current issues, such as the pandemic or new initiatives, the hospital system’s latest national rankings, or financial health.

Jacobsen: Why is American medicine seemingly so terrible at outcomes while, at the same time, so expensive too – including destroying the livelihoods of the individuals giving the care?

Desjardins: American medicine is known as the “great outlier”: it is the worst healthcare system among high-income countries (Commonwealth Funds) but at the same time is the most expensive healthcare system in the world. It has a high infant mortality rate, low life expectancy at age 60, and high preventable mortality. Its infant mortality rate is comparable to some third-world countries, like Sri Lanka (Worldbank). This poor performance at extremely high costs is due to multiple factors. It includes a minimal focus on preventive medicine, emphasis on fixing catastrophic health outcomes after years of neglect, the practice of defensive medicine, and the business approach to healthcare. The traumatic nature of life in America, and the high poverty rate, have significant harmful effects on the population’s health.

Jacobsen: Whether they have terrible health patterns (so their fault), have a bad physician (so not their fault), both (so both their faults), or simply an accident brought about by something unexpected (so neither patient nor physician fault), the reactions from these events can be misinterpretation or malevolence. Each with consequence.

Although, if medicine marks a business, perhaps, we, the non-expert public, can see the issue as a natural derivative of the customer service axiom, “The customer is always right.” How are these issues exacerbating expectations from American patients coming to American physicians with sophisticated ignorance, when ignorance masquerading as knowledge comes to blows with evidence-based expertise?

Desjardins: Physicians are required by their Hippocratic Oath to serve their patients as best as possible. They use an evidence-based approach to healthcare, which is good medicine that can sometimes lead to bad outcomes. The latter often leads to patients physically harming or suing their physician, as patients are too ignorant to realize that good medicine sometimes leads to bad outcomes. Physicians can respond to this situation in two ways. First, they can continue using an evidence-based approach for healthcare until they either get harmed by their patient or more likely lose their practice license due to too many frivolous lawsuits against them. Or they can adapt to an ignorant, scientifically illiterate society by doing “defensive” medicine. The latter leads to overutilization of medical resources, patient harm, and increased U.S. healthcare expenses.

Jacobsen: What about the lower strata of the educational and authority hierarchy in medical facilities? I mean nurses and the like. How is their education? Are they given the same quality of education? How does their education impact the quality of care for patients?

Desjardins: Every member of the healthcare field receives the best possible quality of education addressing the tasks they are expected to perform, ensuring the highest level of quality in healthcare at different levels. Problems arise when healthcare workers lower in the hierarchy are given the authority to perform duties and actions for which they have not been trained to decrease healthcare costs. It has led to patients’ deaths.

On American patients

Jacobsen: I’ve done extensive interviews with Distinguished Professor Gordon Guyatt at McMaster University on Evidence-Based Medicine and other relevant subject matter. He talks about values and preferences. How are these values and preferences of cultures impacting the expectations from physicians by patients in the United States?

Desjardins: I am originally from Canada. Canadians have a more socialist mindset, think about the greater good, and are more reasonable. Americans have a more individualistic mindset. They will not tolerate waiting lists like in Canada. If they cannot see their physicians rapidly or get the device or the operations they want, they get angry and can become litigious. They will expect physicians to spend millions on extending grandma’s life by a few weeks. They have gone to court to prevent unplugging of brain-dead patients (remember Terri Schiavo), with brain dead U.S. lawmakers forcing doctors to keep these patients on life support.

Jacobsen: How are American patients different than others?

Desjardins: They have no personal accountability. They do not take care of themselves. They can chain-smoke for 50 years and then blame their physician if they develop cancer. They expect their physicians to be at their service 24/7/365, an unrealistic expectation, to work all the time without getting tired, and never make a mistake. They fail to realize that physicians are human beings. They still think of physicians as wealthy, privileged people driving expensive cars and living in mansions. U.S. physicians are instead in massive debts from medical schools, massively overworked, cannot take breaks, and are often suicidal from their working conditions.

Jacobsen: How are American patients similar to others?

Desjardins: They get sick.

Jacobsen: You have been in practicing medicine for over 20 years. How do these expectations from patients impact the pressure from administration towards physicians?

Desjardins: There is increasing use of patient satisfaction metrics by the administration to judge physician performance, which I believe is wrong. Most factors affecting patient satisfaction, like waiting time or access to physicians, are entirely beyond the control of physicians. Hospitals in the U.S. are like hotels. U.S. patients have unrealistic expectations because of this hotel mentality.

Jacobsen: What are the rudest versions of this hotel mindset of American patients?

Desjardins: We see more disrespectful behavior from patients and their families against doctors. Some patients will refuse to be examined by a black, Muslim, female, or foreign physician or by a medical trainee, intern, or resident. They will get angry at physicians if they must wait a long time before visits, if the price of their medication is too high, or if busy physicians do not spend enough time with them. And, of course, angry patients often write bad online reviews against competent, dedicated physicians, negatively affecting the physicians’ careers and livelihood.

Jacobsen: Americans are scientifically ignorant, not necessarily individual faults. They are greedy, coming out of a culture based on the superficial things of life, though, at the end of the adult day, is an individual value, so can be considered their fault. Same with cruelty akin to greed. What about American virtues? How are these ameliorating this issue of overwork or poorly cared-for physicians?

Desjardins: Americans can display generosity, compassion, honesty, and solidarity. They often raise thousands of dollars in crowd-funding of patients for an operation, a transplant, or medication. Unfortunately, there is zero empathy in American culture towards physicians. When Americans are told of the poor working conditions of physicians, they simply respond that physicians chose that profession, and they should accept the consequences of working in that profession, even if this leads to physician deaths. When a football player commits suicide, this is extensively covered in the news media, and small local memorials are erected around which people can deposit flowers and pay their respect. When a U.S. physician commits suicide due to poor working conditions, their body gets covered by a tarp, and the death is not reported in the news media. When patients come to their annual physician visit, they are told the physician moved away. After dedicating their lives to taking care of human suffering, their existence is simply eradicated and forgotten. But Americans will remember the football player forever.

Jacobsen: Are violent hysterics against Dr. Fauci ongoing?

Desjardins: I don’t think they will ever stop. In December 2021, Fox News host Jesse Watters urged listeners at a conservative meeting to take a “kill shot” at Dr. Anthony Fauci, the U.S. top government infectious disease physician. Since April 2020, Dr. Fauci and his family have received multiple death threats and have required security and bodyguards. Think about it for a minute. One of the most brilliant infectious disease scientists in the U.S. receives numerous death threats from Americans due to a world pandemic originating in China. What kind of society does that?

Jacobsen: What are two great examples of American ignorance in biology/medicine and basic astronomy?

Desjardins: At my institution, we invite the best scientists in the world to talk about their research. I was privileged to attend lectures by academics who devoted their entire careers to studying American ignorance and scientific illiteracy and trying to find solutions. Here are some examples they provided. Only about 20-30% of Americans believe in the theory of evolution, the core of all biological and medical science. 25% of Americans are unaware that the Earth revolves around the Sun. More recently, when Trump recommended injecting or swallowing Clorox to kill the coronavirus during the pandemic, thousands of Americans poisoned themselves by following his advice.

Jacobsen: All this commentary around scientific illiteracy is the larger discussion around the smaller discourse of medical illiteracy. Basic facts of health and wellness disseminated to the public for public benefit generally, who, by community social police, by malevolent religious leaders, by charlatans, by hubristic greedy ignorance-mongers, and others, are lied to, about it. They’re told the opposite.

They’re told physicians, as with Dr. Fauci, for example, are agents of malevolence, even of Satan, etc. These disconnects from Ground Zero contribute to this culture of ignorance, as many other cultures. However, everything’s on camera in the United States.  

Is this a similar trend, as with the increasingly worse treatment of physicians over half of a century, of a collapse of the integrity of the proverbial social fabric and institutional trust in the United States? If so, are these mutually reinforcing trends, where, perhaps, some of the more intelligent physicians among physicians (who are already among the most average intelligent people our societies have) want to pull a House, M.D. on them (the patients)?

Desjardins: The combination of ignorance and hostility in the U.S., each reinforcing the other, leads to the current war against expertise, in which the expertise of physicians, scientists, and scholars is downplayed or wholly dismissed. I am reminded of the famous quote by Isaac Azimov: “There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” In his 2017 book, “The Death of Expertise: The Campaign Against Established Knowledge and Why It Matters,” Tom Nichols addressed the issue. Nichols notes that “increasing numbers of laypeople lack basic knowledge, they reject fundamental rules of evidence and refuse to learn how to make a logical argument.” He describes instances where scientifically illiterate patients tell their physician why their advice is wrong. He decries Americans’ lack of critical thinking abilities, their positive hostility towards knowledge, their rejection of science, and of dispassionate rationality, which are the foundations of modern civilization.

Footnotes

[1] Academic Physician; Member, OlympIQ Society; Member, Mega Society.

[2] Individual Publication Date: May 8, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/american-medicine-1; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2022: https://in-sightpublishing.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Dr. Benoit Desjardins, M.D., Ph.D., on Specialization, Tao, da Vinci, and Scientific Illiteracy: Academic Physician; Member, Mega Society (3)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/05/08

Abstract

Professor Benoit Desjardins, MD, PhD, FAHA, FACR, FNASCI is an Ivy League academic physician and scientist at the University of Pennsylvania. He is member of several scientific societies and a Fellow of the American College of Radiology and of the American Heart Association. He is the co-Founder of the Arrhythmia Imaging Research (AIR) lab at Penn. His research is funded by the National Institute of Health. He is an international leader in three different fields: cardiovascular imaging, artificial intelligence and cybersecurity. He is a member of the most elite high IQ societies in the world. He discusses: fonder memories; areas of specialization; pure mathematics; Atheism; some of the influences on this atheism; the Catholic high school education; children’s and your wife’s association with spirituality and religion; each of the degrees’ subject matter; the OSCP test; Prof. Tao; da Vinci; physicians; Canadian society; hacked; religion; education in critical thinking; and American scientific illiteracy .

Keywords: academic, American, Atheism, Benoit Desjardins, Catholic high school, Leonardo da Vinci, OSCP test, scientific illiteracy, spirituality, Terence Tao.

 Conversation with Dr. Benoit Desjardins, M.D., Ph.D., on Specialization, Tao, da Vinci, and Scientific Illiteracy: Academic Physician; Member, Mega Society (3)

*Please see the references, footnotes, and citations, after the interview, respectively.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: That’s a very dramatic reveal at the wedding. At least, it spices life up a bit, I suppose. Any fonder memories come to mind rather than those featuring the dramatis personae? Something unmentioned. 

Dr. Benoit Desjardins[1],[2]*: There were plenty of fonder memories in my early life, but nothing interesting to the readers. You know, getting puppies and stuff like that.

Jacobsen: What were the areas of specialization when doing graduate school? I do not mean the disciplines themselves, e.g., “Pure Mathematics, Artificial Intelligence, Formal Philosophy (Logic), and Theoretical Physics.” I mean the topics within the disciplines studied, e.g., the area of logic, the area of medicine. Also, why not pursue a CEO position within medicine to make even more money rather than make a lot of money, though less than a CEO, and in slave-like conditions?

Desjardins: Well, for Pure Mathematics, it’s your general graduate degree covering all basic areas. For Artificial Intelligence, I focused on the applications to healthcare and basic A.I. theory. For Theoretical Physics, I enjoyed quantum physics and mathematical methods. For Formal Philosophy, I focused on standard and non-standard logic, formal learning theory, formal discovery theory (my dissertation), and philosophy of science. I studied everything in those four fields relevant to theoretical artificial intelligence.

I was not born with the business gene. I developed a few computational tools over the years, and I was strongly encouraged to start a company to make money out of those tools. I had no interest in starting a company and decided to make the tools available for free to the medical community. Doing an MBA (a degree in greed) is undoubtedly an option for someone who collects degrees, but I have no interest in business.

Jacobsen: Why was pure mathematics the hardest? Why does pure mathematics seem to require such high levels of g?

Desjardins:  Graduate-level pure mathematics builds on a full undergraduate-level mathematics curriculum that I never pursued. They did not allow me to register for that graduate program initially. They felt it was impossible for someone without an undergraduate degree in mathematics to complete a level 1 (top institution) graduate-level pure mathematics program. So, I made a deal with them. I asked which first-term pure mathematics graduate course was the hardest. They told me it was Advanced Abstract Algebra. I asked the program director, “if I take that course and do well in it, could I get into the program?” He said yes. It was challenging without an undergraduate background, but I got used to it and did well enough. So, they allowed me to enroll. None of those pure mathematics courses were easy, and many were an exercise in frustration. But I pulled through, somehow.

Jacobsen: What age was Atheism ‘it’ for you?

Desjardins: In early elementary school, when I first learned about religion. The concept of an invisible entity controlling our lives seemed ridiculous to me, and worshipping it sounded even more ridiculous.

Jacobsen: What were some of the influences on this atheism, or lines of thought within the mind of a profoundly gifted young Canadian?

Desjardins: None. I concluded by myself from the very start that religion made no sense. I was not exposed to any atheist group, and the public internet as we know it today did not exist at the time. Religion was starting to fade away in Quebec, which helped a bit.

Jacobsen: What were the benefits, and not, of the Catholic high school education?

Desjardins: It was better than public school. This specific high school also included a strong sports component, and my parents wanted me to become more active, besides reading and playing chess.

Jacobsen: What are your children’s and your wife’s association with spirituality and religion if I may ask?

Desjardins: They vary from strong atheism to mild religiosity.

Jacobsen: Are there fundamental interrelationships between each of the degree’s subject matter? In that, there is a theoretical and empirical foundation unifying the study of each, or these were, just that, a collection of stamps as degrees.

Desjardins: I did not start graduate school by doing four simultaneous degrees. For the first term, I just did artificial intelligence related to medicine. But during that term, I was exposed to formal philosophers with a solid logic and theoretical background. They had an incredibly deeper understanding of everything in the field. They operated at an intellectual level to which I had never been exposed. I was genuinely impressed by them, and I wanted to acquire the same skills, so I got into logic and then pure mathematics. Theoretical physics was just for fun. But all the degrees involved skills relevant to theoretical artificial intelligence, so they were not a collection of random degrees. They also involved topics in which I had a long-time interest.

Jacobsen: What is the OSCP test in hacking?

Desjardins: OSCP is a hands-on hacking course where you initially get exposed to a minimal set of hacking techniques. You then self-learn practical hacking skills by hacking into 50 machines on a virtual network by trial and error, each requiring a different hacking approach. It requires penetration followed by privileges escalation to the root level for each machine. In the final exam, you have 24h to hack into five machines on a virtual network. You must try every hacking technique you know and hope some of them work in the limited 24h of the test while staying awake. Although I have been forced to stay awake for up to 68h in medicine, hacking non-stop for 24h is extremely difficult because of the constant intense intellectual effort. It just burns you out.

Jacobsen: What makes Prof. Tao so smart, or impressively astute with mathematics?

Desjardins: Probably a combination of good genes and training and a well-connected set of neurons. He is the academic that other brilliant mathematicians consult when they get stuck on a problem.

Jacobsen: What aspect of da Vinci seems the most contributive to his creativity?

Desjardins: He was born at the right time in history and with the right set of creative skills for that specific time. I don’t know enough about his life to provide an intelligent answer to that.

Jacobsen: How does American society treat physicians like slaves? We can, as discussed, cover this in-depth a separate educational series here.

Desjardins: I will elaborate in the separate educational series.

Jacobsen: How does Canadian society treat them?

Desjardins: Much better. Canadian society is better educated and has more respect for physicians and scientists. Canadians are not at war with science like in the U.S. Canada is more like Europe. They do not have Fox News in Canada.

Jacobsen: Who are most likely to get hacked, or have attempts at hacking them?

Desjardins: If you think of individual people (as opposed to military installations or government institutions), then political leaders or famous people are more likely to get hacked. Trump got his Twitter account hacked a few times because he used trivial passwords. The actress Jennifer Lawrence got hacked so that they could get naked pictures of her from her cloud account.

Jacobsen: Why does religion, as a statistical tendency and a finding mutually known in psychology based on meta-analyses of I.Q. and religiosity and conservatism, attract more of the left side of the bell curve rather than less of the left side of the bell curve?

Desjardins: I am not an expert on that topic. I might be completely wrong, but this seems to make some sense. People on the left side of the Bell curve accept what they learn in school without much questioning. People on the right side of the Bell curve tend to question more what they learn and can more easily form opinions that are independent and different from that of their teachers. It includes views about religion.

Jacobsen: How much could education in critical thinking help with this problem of negative religiosity infecting public discourse, even politics, and public policy?

Desjardins: It would help a lot, and there is a lot of effort to implement critical thinking as part of the U.S. educational curriculum (e.g., gen-ed courses in U.S. colleges). But this is not easy, and there is surprisingly a solid reluctance to this initiative amongst U.S. students. An anecdote opened my mind to this problem. A physician colleague did part of his training at Harvard and was a mentor in an undergraduate course on critical thinking required for Harvard students. There were many complaints from the students in the class as they could not understand why a course in critical thinking was helpful for their major. If Harvard students don’t get it, how could students in less competitive institutions get it? How could people not attending college get it?

Jacobsen: How does this American scientific illiteracy show itself? In Canada, we have the same with Trinity Western University. The largest Evangelical Christian university in the country, largest private university in the country, is 5 minutes down the road from me, and creates a culture of Evangelical fundamentalism and resultant scientific illiteracy and monocultural prejudice in general, so most cases. 1/4 to 1/5 Canadians are young Earth creationists by title or by stipulated belief systems based on surveys.  

Desjardins: You don’t have to look very far to find recent examples. Just look at the U.S. response to the current pandemic. A large portion of Americans refused to get vaccinated and wear masks. Ignorant and scientifically illiterate governors implemented horrible state policies, leading to COVID cases skyrocketing in red states. It led to over one million U.S. deaths from COVID, more than any other nation on Earth. After Trump suggested it, thousands of Americans poisoned themselves by swallowing disinfectants to try to cure COVID. U.S. judges, who are supposed to be educated and intelligent, forced physicians to administer horse deworming medicine to COVID patients, an act of pure idiocy. Physicians who prescribed this drug for COVID patients were fired for gross incompetence and stupidity.

Footnotes

[1] Academic Physician; Member, OlympIQ Society; Member, Mega Society.

[2] Individual Publication Date: May , 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/desjardins-3; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2022: https://in-sightpublishing.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

The Greenhorn Chronicles 5: Leann (Pitman) Manuel on Becoming a Horse Woman and Riding 4 Life’s Beginnings (1)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/05/08

Abstract

Leann (Pitman) Manuel’s bio states: “Leann was as good as born on a horse, and has been fortunate to work with them daily since her very early twenties. From Pony Club and 4H as a child, through national level competition and several World’s Show qualifications with her Quarter Horse as a teen, to some Dressage tests, a few Cowboy Challenge clinics, and the daily operations at Riding 4 Life today, Leann’s horsemanship practice continues to seek out anything and everything she may be able to learn or experience with horses. Leann is passionate about helping others realize the value of having horses in their lives – no matter the breed or creed – and she hopes to continue to grow and nurture the horsemanship community in her region well into the future.” She discusses: earliest memory with a horse; the trend with a single digit age and a familial line; funding a business around horses; clients and staff; the niche of people or individuals on the autism spectrum.

Keywords: 4H, autism spectrum, equestrianism, Fort Worth, Leann Manuel, Pony Club, Quarter Horse, Riding 4 Life, Texas, Western classes.

The Greenhorn Chronicles 5: Leann (Pitman) Manuel on Becoming a Horse Woman and Riding 4 Life’s Beginnings (1)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citations after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Today, we are here with Leann Manuel. We will talk about equestrianism. It is another addition to the series. So, my first question, typically, is around the foundation or the history of becoming a horse woman, a horse person, in this industry. What was the earliest memory with a horse for you?

Leann (Pitman) Manuel[1],[2]: Gosh, there was always a horse in my backyard. Some of my first memories are as a toddler of a barn being built in my backyard, and my family helping. So, there are pictures of my mom as a 10-year-old on her first horse. It’s in the genetic fabric of my immediate family, I guess. My mom’s passion. Ironically, when I was a kid, she didn’t think I would get into it.

She only had one horse. She sold extra equipment. Only kept around what she needed for her horse. Lo and behold, yes, it became my passion too. I ended up with my own horse, bought specifically for me when I was 11 years old.

Jacobsen: Typically, is this the trend with a single digit age and a familial line in it?

Manuel: It was, certainly, a trend for all of my peers. That I found myself in 4H Club with. I was in 4H Club, Pony Club, Quarter Horse organization, any kind of the communities in the horse industry. It was true of pretty much all of my peers. They came from existing horse families, especially if they stuck with it long-term.

For 4H, as it is government supported, it is a volunteer-based program with provincial and federal funding in it. That’s where we saw more kids who didn’t come from a farm background or an agricultural background, wanting to learn about horse. They would come to club meetings and learn a bit.

But when it came to participation of owning a horse, that’s when we saw a lot of those folks drop off. Because their families were either too intimidated of owning a horse and everything that entailed, and couldn’t financially support it, or there wasn’t an easy inroad for them to continue.

Jacobsen: How did this continue over time and to the point of founding a business around horses? That’s a big step.

Manuel: It was a big step, but a slow and inevitable progression as far as I experienced it. 11-years-old in Pony Club taking lessons. 13-years-old, my mom’s horse passes away. My parents purchase another horse. I fell in love with it. This horse has a rescue story behind it. It was purchased for not much money at all.

I ended up with the kind of bond with that horse that took me from the little novice kid riding up and down the road to a few years later competing at Thunderbird when it was still at 200th Ave. with the Keg restaurant at the end. I was 15 years old and way in over my head, and out of my league.

But the bond I had with this horse. I was competing with pros in the open division and winning. I look back at that. As a kid, I had no idea what I was doing. I was just at a horse show with a horse doing my thing. At 15, you don’t realize professionals up and down the coast from Washington State, Oregon, and California, watching me ride by and take their points, “Where did this kid come from?” [Laughing] I rode that horse for 8 years on the Quarter Horse circuit.

She was an American Quarter Horse. That was the association I was heavily involved with at the time because that’s the horse that I happened to have at the time. Along the way, other projects come along. So, I had her that I was showing. I was in 4H. Someone gave me another project, “Here, Leann, another horse to ride.”

Because my other now really accomplished show horse was way out of the league out of what was available to compete with in 4H. I took this Haflinger Belgian Quarter Horse cross 3-year-old not even halter broke really. It got out of the trailer and dragged me from the trailer to the barn where the other horses were.

That was my 4H project for the year. By the end of the 8-month project year, I was competing walk-trot-canter. He was doing cross rails. We were in some Western classes making it. We were bombing it. He went back to his owner and joined a lesson program. I had a project always cycling through that I was riding. By the time I hit graduation, which was this fork in the road, my dad was determined that there was no real way for me to make money in the horse industry.

Even though, I was competing at the professional level. The only next level to test me was to go to the World’s in Fort Worth, Texas. I couldn’t afford to go. I stayed back and mucked stalls at my friends facility while she went with her family to compete in my spot on the team.

So, financial barrier to really getting access to that community, that market, that level of competition. My dad insisted on my going to university. I got some scholarships and went to UVic. I left horses a little behind. They were what I did in the Summer time a little bit. I had another young horse, which I showed and developed a bit, ultimately, after a few years of university, coming back home in my early 20s, facing some mental health issues and PTSD from trauma, I realized; without horses, I don’t have solid ground to stand on, for myself.

This is part of who I am. It is cellular. It is in my bones. My best self and healthiest is when I have horses to work with. It became the foundation for what I do today at Riding 4 Life. I came home riding horse, teaching a few, riding, lessons. Inevitably, if you have something to offer, and don’t have money, when you’re young and have horses, you teach riding horses, muck stalls, or ride people’s horses to earn money to pay entry fees, to buy the saddle you need.

That’s how I started. I taught my first beginner lessons when I was 14 years old, maybe 13. I was training a few other people’s horses on the side for cash when I was 15, 16. It kept going from there. In my early 20s, I was teaching riding lessons in my parents’ backyard property again when one of my long-time clients who bordered her horse at my parent’s place when I was away at university; she was a foster parent.

She worked with special needs kids. She was starting a business. Getting out of being a foster parent directly and getting into being more of a supporter and foster of the community, she started a business with behaviour intervention and community support work with kids with various barriers. In particular, things like autism or developmental disabilities, or medical issues that made them very fragile.

She was always looking for things to do. She used funding to take them to riding lessons to help them with me, then this happened with 2 or 3, and then hit about 8 or 9. She had clients like that. She said, “You know, Leann, you should start this as a business.” That’s where that jumping off point happened with horses from passion, identity, hobby, skill set, to monetized formally.

It was pretty interesting because I’ve in my work life, never been as successful as when I am growing that. I grew that in my hometown for a few years, Port Alberni. Other life events made it impossible for me to continue. I fall off the radar a bit as an equine business operator. I still had horses. I fight to keep them, feed them. I head off to the Okanagan in 2008, which was my first brush with the restaurant industry. I picked up a job waiting tables in a restaurant in Osoyoos trying to feed my horses.

Tip money was the first money I had in my pocket when I crash landed here. I bought some hay and away we went. Here we are, 2022, I sent emails to all of my clients to see who wants to re-register for this year. There was over 60 clients on that list.

So, it’s busy and growing. Things tend to grow to fill the capacity for whatever resources we have to serve those folks.

Jacobsen: How clients do you have now? How many staff do you have to meet the needs of those clients?

Manuel: Gosh, like I said, the actual individual clients on our weekly roster. We are at about 60 to 65. We operate a Spring, Summer, Fall session. Without an indoor session, we cannot run a Winter session. Myself, my husband, we have 3 or 4 part-time staff who have been interns. Young people who have come up through my program or gained experience. There’s one who has gained experience and recently joined the program.

They help me teach beginner lessons now. They range from 14 to about 20. Then the other detail is roughly 50% of my clientele is on the autism spectrum, including some of my staff.

Jacobsen: How do people find out, by which I mean clients (or prospective), about Riding 4 Life, especially with the niche of people or individuals on the autism spectrum coming to you – at such overwhelming rates out of the proportion of the clientele, which is large itself?

Manuel: So, we specialize in autism services. We recently added beginner lessons as something we put front and center, because I was getting so many people requesting it. Even though, it was not my focus. It created this opportunity where I said to some of my teens who were looking for more, “Do you want to teach riding lessons?” We started an internship riding program.

I held my shingle out for beginning lessons to create work for them. Because we had the skill set here, the equipment. We had great horses. If I am teaching my lesson, and if there are two or three others with me with their students, “Let’s see if it works.” Out first crack at that was 4 years ago.

Of course, in the after school hours here last Summer and Fall, we had a 3 and 4 o’clock session with 6 or 7 horses with 7 instructors running out there at the same time. It offered training wheels. That’s how I describe how I teach. You get somebody going. You get the training wheels. As you get someone going, and develop their confidence, you slowly take those training wheels away. Same for our instructors.

They don’t think they can do it. I had one young woman. She moved away now. She was selectively mute. She came as a beginner, rider, client. She ended up as an instructor. Slowly push her out there, “You can do it.” [Laughing]

If the wheels really fall off there, you can do it. So far, so good.

Footnotes

[1] Instructor & Founder, Riding 4 Life Equine Enterprises.

[2] Individual Publication Date: May 8, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/manuel-1; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2022: https://in-sightpublishing.com/insight-issues/.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

The Greenhorn Chronicles 4: Dr. Julia Jane Stanley on Physics, Show Jumping, and Grand Prix Dreams (1)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/05/08

Abstract

Dr. Julia Jane Stanley is a show jumper equestrian training under Laura Balisky. She earned a Ph.D. in Physics from the University of Calgary. She discusses: the first inklings of an interest in horses; the individuals who encouraged this interest in horses; the focus in horses; highest level of attainment in performance; Medical Physics; doctoral research; Physics; the current pursuits with horses now; plans with horses; physics; other animals; the trainers or mentors in Southlands; trail rides; Laura Balisky; pony club; riding; pursue science or medicine; and Grand Prixs.

Keywords: Canada, equestrianism, equine, Eventing, Grand Prix, Julia Jane Stanley, Laura Balisky, Maynard’s Pony Meadows, Physics, pony club, Show Jumping, Southlands, Sweet Briar College, University of Calgary.

The Greenhorn Chronicles 4: Dr. Julia Jane Stanley on Physics, Show Jumping, and Grand Prix Dreams (1)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: When it comes to equestrians and equestrianism, one trend, certainly, of note, though preliminary in the research: A lesser educational attainment in the pursuit of a dream of becoming the next great Canadian equestrian, or the maintenance of a desired life(style) in the equine. I have zero survey or organization membership data to confirm this observation, but, in conversation, I have noted this – so preliminary, qualitative, and limited sample size. The series will be, and is in the process of, expanding outside of the remit of British Columbia and Canadian equestrianism. When talking to equestrians, and to you, I was informed of something. Your Ph.D. is from the University of Calgary in Physics. You have the highest education of any equestrian known to me so far. We will talk about this. However, as with every story, there is a “once upon a time…” Once upon a time, you didn’t have a Ph.D. You simply had an interest in horses. When were the first inklings of an interest in horses?

Dr. Julia Jane Stanley[1],[2]: I have always loved horses and all animals and I started riding in Southlands, Vancouver when I was five years old.

Jacobsen: Who were the individuals who encouraged this interest in horses?

Stanley: I had to beg for riding lessons when I was younger. My aunt took me on a trail ride when I was little and after my parents finally let me take riding lessons.

Jacobsen: What has been the focus in horses, e.g., show jumping, dressage, etc.?

Stanley: I originally started in eventing and pony club. When I was about 11, I had a very hot thoroughbred off the track who wasn’t suitable for the dressage phase of eventing but who would jump 1.40m and I switched to show jumping and have been focused on show jumping ever since.

Jacobsen: What has been the highest level of attainment in performance in equestrianism at the professional level for you?

Stanley: I currently ride as an amateur but the highest level I have shown at is the World Cup Qualifiers.

Jacobsen: How did you work with horses and then pursue an education in Medical Physics? Where was the undergraduate and graduate school (pre-doctoral level, unless simply jumping from B.Sc. to Ph.D. candidate)?

Stanley: I did my BSc in physics at Sweet Briar College in Virginia.

Riding was an integral part of life at Sweet Briar. My horse lived on campus with me and riding was a course scheduled into my day. I absolutely loved my time at Sweet Briar.

I did my MSc in Medical Physics at Duke University in North Carolina and my barn was an hour and a half drive from the university which was tricky. Luckily, there was another rider at my barn who let me stay with her when I didn’t have to drive back for classes.

Jacobsen: What was the doctoral research question? What were the main research findings in Physics from the doctoral thesis?

Stanley: Quantification of Uncertainty in Stereotactic Radiosurgery.

I found that the highest amount of uncertainty was introduced into the process during the contouring stage.

Jacobsen: While working in Medical Physics, why decide to come back to equestrianism? Is it the lifestyle, the horses, the riding, some admixture, etc.?

Stanley: I rode the entire time I was in school. I was hacking at least 12 horses a day towards the end of my PhD. I can’t imagine not riding. I love both the horses and competing.

Jacobsen: What are the current pursuits with horses now, e.g., leisure, competition, and so on?

Stanley: I compete in hunter/jumper shows.

Jacobsen: What are your plans with horses now?

Stanley: I would like to show in the Grand Prixs again.

06/09/2017 ; Calgary ; Spruce Meadows Masters ; 147, KARAMELL, JULIA STANLEY ; friday csi2 1m40 ; Sportfot

Jacobsen: Why choose physics?

Stanley: I really enjoyed math and problem solving. Physics uses these skills.

Jacobsen: What other animals were an affinity for you, in earlier life?

Stanley: I liked animals in general when I was very young. But horses were my main interest.

Jacobsen: Who were the trainers or mentors in Southlands, Vancouver at
five years old?

Stanley: I started out at Maynard’s Pony Meadows.

Jacobsen: How long were the trail rides with your aunt?

Stanley: We went once to a dude ranch near her house and I believe it was an hour or so. The horse I rode was a grey named Hickory.

Jacobsen: For show jumping, are you associated with a particular barn, ranch, or equestrian facility at this time? Or do you operate independently?

Stanley: I train with Laura Balisky.

05/07/2017 ; Calgary ; Spruce Meadows North American ; 652, KARAMELL, JULIA STANLEY ; 1m45 ; Sportfot

Jacobsen: In my whole not-even-a-year in the equine industry, pony club has been a term of conversation among some equestrians at work and in personal interactions with them, so far, for me. What is pony club?

Stanley: Pony club is an organization that teaches young people about horses. We had weekly stable management lessons and lots of fun activities such as mounted games, rally and quiz (a horse knowledge competition).

Jacobsen: How many days a week is riding an activity for you?

Stanley: I ride every day.

Jacobsen: If other women want to pursue science or medicine, while also wanting to continue to ride, what would be the advice for maintaining the balance of the two parts of life without losing healthy functioning in either?

Stanley: I recommend finding a university that supports and accommodates participation in athletics. I had a very positive experience at Sweet Briar. My passion for riding was supported and encouraged by my college and wasn’t seen as taking away from my academic interests. I was able to travel to horse shows with my college and my participation in shows was seen as representing my college – the same as if I had been on the football team.

Jacobsen: Why the Grand Prixs rather than other options?

Stanley: The horses I currently ride are jumpers. I also enjoy riding hunters but I don’t currently have a hunter.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Ph.D., Physics, University of Calgary; Equestrian, Show Jumper.

[2] Individual Publication Date: May 8, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/stanley-1; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2022: https://in-sightpublishing.com/insight-issues/.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Dr. Benoit Desjardins, M.D., Ph.D., on Financial Stability, Intellectual Stimulation, and the Mega Society: Academic Physician; Member, Mega Society (2)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/05/01

Abstract

Professor Benoit Desjardins, MD, PhD, FAHA, FACR is an Ivy League academic physician and scientist at the University of Pennsylvania. He is a member of the Mega Society, the OlympIQ Society and past member of the Prometheus Society. He is the designer of the cryptic Mega Society logo. He is member of several scientific societies and a Fellow of the American College of Radiology and of the American Heart Association. He is the co-Founder of the Arrhythmia Imaging Research (AIR) lab at Penn. His research is funded by the National Institute of Health. He is an international leader in three different fields: cardiovascular imaging, artificial intelligence and cybersecurity. He discusses: father; financial stability over artistic fulfillment; French-Canadian Catholic culture; not a very religious family; the priest who cursed the family; the wife, kids, and happy marriage of 34 years; “Pure Mathematics, Artificial Intelligence, Formal Philosophy (Logic), and Theoretical Physics”; a big Fellowship from the Canadian Medical Research Council; an M.D. degree, a PhD degree, half a dozen Masters; the scores on the Mega Test and the Titan Test; the pluses and minuses of the Mega Society; the feud between ‘Mega Society East’/ Mega Foundation of Christopher Langan and Dr. Gina Langan and the Mega Society decades ago; the most entertaining test; a recluse prior to and in some of high school; the smartest person; the most creative person; a hacker and cybersecurity specialist; VPNs and encrypted email systems; the highest paid position or specialization in medicine; God as an invention; a social democracy like Canada; Tim Roberts stuff; 5-sigma intelligence; more forceful with the recommendations to patients; advancements in medicine; greater value of the state; metaphysics; post-positivism; scientific theories; “Grand Challenges”; funeral; remembered; hopes for your children; and the community of the high-I.Q.

Keywords: academic, Atheism, Benoit Desjardins, Canadian Medical Research Council, Christopher Michael Langan, cybersecurity, hacker, intelligence, I.Q., Leonardo Da Vinci, Mega Foundation, Mega Society, metaphysics, physician, post-positivism, Terence Tao.

 Conversation with Dr. Benoit Desjardins, M.D., Ph.D., on Financial Stability, Intellectual Stimulation, and the Mega Society: Academic Physician; Member, Mega Society (2)

*Please see the references, footnotes, and citations, after the interview, respectively.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Was there any lead-up to finding out about the adoption of your father? Or was it mentioned nonchalantly, almost casually, at the wedding?

Dr. Benoit Desjardins: My father’s sister was a troublemaker, so I did not invite her to the wedding. My father’s mother was angry about it and did not come to the wedding. My father was furious about these two absences, got drunk, and made the big reveal at the wedding.

Jacobsen: What career paths were considered for you, as you selected for financial stability over artistic fulfillment (or something else like this)?

Desjardins: I initially had planned a double career: one to generate income and one to provide intellectual fulfillment. I studied many combinations and assessed which were realistic. I was a hacker, so I strongly considered math & computer science for intellectual satisfaction and medicine to generate income. I was fast-tracked to medicine in Canada. Then I completed four simultaneous graduate degrees in the U.S. after I was awarded one of Canada’s most prestigious fellowships. It was challenging to do graduate-level training (especially in pure mathematics) without ever having done undergraduate training.

Jacobsen: How was French-Canadian Catholic culture in Montreal at the time – for family background?

Desjardins: It was fine when I grew up. Not a very big part of our lives. I already knew that I was an atheist at a very young age. The Quebec religious and cultural revolution had already happened, and religion was fading away in the province. I did attend a catholic high school but was never abused by any priest or teacher, probably because of my lack of sex appeal.

Jacobsen: When you say, “Not a very religious family,” what is “religious” in this sense?

Desjardins: We attended church at Christmas. I was baptized and did first communion and confirmation. I got married in a church. That was the limit of my family’s involvement with religion.

Jacobsen: For the priest who cursed the family to have a physically disabled child for missing Mass, this tells a bit about some of the church culture of the time. I will ad. In fact, you were born with prodigious intellectual capacities. The priest was very wrong. The Catholic God may vetoed or inverted the priest’s curse – so to speak. Any other stories, good or bad, with the church before leaving?

Desjardins: This happened before I was born. I have not heard of any other stories from my family.

Jacobsen: Congratulations on the wife, kids, and happy marriage of 34 years, what helps make for longevity in a marriage?

Desjardins: Always treat your wife like a queen, with unconditional love, and understand that nobody is perfect.

Jacobsen: Why select “Pure Mathematics, Artificial Intelligence, Formal Philosophy (Logic), and Theoretical Physics” as the simultaneous graduate degree path? Certainly, other disciplines may have been on the table for offer within the four-fold path. Just curious, you had financial stability, probably, by that time, so intellectual fulfillment seems like part of the purpose there.

Desjardins: I was poor during my graduate training. I lived off my Canadian Fellowship money. The tricky part was finding a clever way to not pay for any of the graduate degrees using my Fellowship money: this involved research assistantships and other duties. I only paid half the tuition for one term for my Pure Mathematics degree at CMU. For everything else, I found ways not to have to pay. These four fields had always interested me intellectually, and they meshed very well together.

Jacobsen: What was the title of the “very prestigious Award”?

Desjardins: It was a big Fellowship from the Canadian Medical Research Council. I forgot its exact name. It was about 40K per year, which was good money if I remember well.

Jacobsen: With “an M.D. degree, a PhD degree, half a dozen Masters, and medical post-graduate training certificates. I also completed several additional certifications on the side, like recent certifications in hacking and cybersecurity,” what are some synoptic statements to be made about each expertise or the inter-relatedness of the disciplines too?

Desjardins: Some people collect stamps. I collect degrees. The MD degree was for financial stability. The simultaneous graduate degrees were part of an “intellectual interlude,” where I did everything I wanted to do that medical school did not cover. The additional degrees and certificates were just extensions into areas in which I developed an interest later in life.

Jacobsen: What were the scores on the Mega Test and the Titan Test to enter the Mega Society?

Desjardins: 45, enough to get in.

Jacobsen: What are the pluses and minuses of the Mega Society?

Desjardins: All high I.Q. societies are controversial societies with controversial entry requirements. But it’s the best available requirements, with no suitable alternatives. I enjoy getting regular updates via their mailing list about significant developments in areas of interest, like when someone proves a critical theorem or obtains a huge scientific result. I don’t have time to keep track of all the fields. I also enjoy the quizzes/competitions for high I.Q. people. I usually finish first and get some prize money. It keeps my neurons active as I get older.

Jacobsen: What seemed to have happened with the feud between ‘Mega Society East’/ Mega Foundation of Christopher Langan and Dr. Gina Langan and the Mega Society decades ago? Duly noting, the Langans lost the legal battle over the name, as stipulated on the Mega Society website. One of several in a career of losses, in fact.

Langan’s current research program comprises hypothesizing about logic, the Coudenhove-Kalergi white genocide plan, theology, the I.Q. of Koko the gorilla and Somalians, metaphysics, 9/11 as a cover to prevent the world finding out about his Theory of Everything (ToE), Intelligent Design and evolution combined, the role of Jews and bankers and multibillionaire technologists in global affairs, philosophy, the reality of Jesus & Satan, math, Demonology, world religions, the role of literal magic in the operations of the CIA, set theory, more about some Jews, linguistics, issues with inter-ethnic couplings, ontology, the harms of vaccines and the sociopolitical conspiracies around getting a vaccine, epistemology, how spelling his name wrong “can be interpreted as a passive-aggressive form of sacrilege,” and more.

Desjardins: I briefly interacted with Mr. Langan and decided to stay as far away from him as possible.

Jacobsen: What has been the most entertaining test taken by you? What has been the most difficult test taken by you, and why that test?

Desjardins: Titan and Mega were by far the most entertaining tests. The most challenging test was the OSCP test in hacking. It’s a 24h test, and it’s challenging to stay awake for 24h doing intense hacking.

Jacobsen: What did you do as a recluse prior to and in some of high school?

Desjardins: I read a lot about everything at the library.

Jacobsen: Who is the smartest person known to you?

Desjardins: Probably Prof Terence Tao from UCLA.

Jacobsen: Who is the most creative person known to you?

Desjardins: If we consider everyone in history, then Leonardo Da Vinci.

Jacobsen: As a hacker and cybersecurity specialist, what are the things people should keep in mind to keep privacy and personal information safe?

Desjardins: Keep in mind that anybody can get hacked. Use a layered approach to privacy. You should encrypt your most private digital information with military-grade symmetric encryption and a complex password that you cannot remember but that you can reconstruct. Be very wary of phishing emails. You must keep many backups of your data stored in different media and air-gapped from the internet. Use a VPN whenever you connect to public WIFI. I have two VPN software on my laptop, as some do not work with some networks.

Jacobsen: Are VPNs and encrypted email systems useful in the last questions regard, too?

Desjardins: Definitely. For business-related confidential emails, use the secure communication tools your company provides.

Jacobsen: What is the highest paid position or specialization in medicine now? Because I have no idea at this point.

Desjardins: Hospital CEOs and Health Insurance CEOs are the highest-paid people in medicine and earn millions. Physicians make orders of magnitude less money. The American society exploits physicians and treats them like slaves.

Jacobsen: If “God was an invention of prehistoric man to explain what he could not understand,” what does this state about the significant majority of the world’s population adhering to this “invention”?

Desjardins: 50% of the world population is on the left side of the Bell curve, and most of them are religious. There is also a strong cultural aspect to religion.

Jacobsen: Where could a social democracy like Canada improve itself?

Desjardins: There is always room for improvement in every system. Some of the rules in Canada should be less rigid. I was a victim of this rigidity on several occasions. For example, after my intellectual interlude in the U.S., I was not allowed back to Canada to complete my post-graduate medical training. They had changed the Canadian training access rules during my stay in the U.S. I had to emigrate to the U.S. to complete my medical training. In 1987, they hired me to be chief of radiology at the Montreal Heart Institute, which I accepted. I decided to un-accept the position when the Quebec government did not allow my kids to continue their education in English after two failed appeals against their decision.

Jacobsen: What makes Tim Roberts stuff challenging, intellectually fun?

Desjardins: They are well-designed fun problems. I usually solve almost all of them. I then show them to my physician friends, who usually cannot solve any.

Jacobsen: What do you think would really need to be done to measure 5-sigma intelligence with a much, much smaller margin of error in the final assessment – speaking less in terms of obvious things like larger sample size, more in terms of the character of the problems proposed?

Desjardins: I think this is a complicated problem that we will likely never solve. All the tools we have are imperfect.

Jacobsen: When is it appropriate to be more forceful with the recommendations to patients in medicine?

Desjardins: For example, when thousands of Americans poisoned themselves by ingesting disinfectants to kill the coronavirus after Trump suggested it, it would have been a good idea for physicians to tell their patients not to swallow disinfectants. But very few physicians realized that Americans were so scientifically illiterate.

Jacobsen: With advancements in medicine, what are the top 5 things everyone can practice for a higher probability of a longer healthspan and lifespan?

Desjardins: Don’t smoke, maintain your weight to avoid type II diabetes, keep your blood pressure within the normal range, eat healthily and exercise. It is not rocket science. I follow only two of those, sadly.

Jacobsen: What is the greater value of the state? What is the lesser value, though still value, of unions?

Desjardins: The greater value of the state is to ensure a decent quality of life for everybody and not let people fall through the cracks. The U.S. does a miserable job at this. The value of unions is not to let big companies exploit workers. Full-time workers should not need food stamps in addition to their pay, as some poorly paid exploited U.S. workers require to stay afloat.

Jacobsen: Without a need for metaphysics, what, if it arises in any conversation, has been a response to you, where you “have a purely atheistic scientific view of the world”?

Desjardins: I live in an Ivy League environment surrounded by people who share the same worldview, so they simply agree.

Jacobsen: How do you define post-positivism?

Desjardins: It’s like Natural Selection for knowledge. All researchers are biased, which affects their observations, and therefore cannot see the world objectively. But researchers are part of a research community that criticizes each other’s ideas, and the ideas that survive intense scrutiny remain and get progressively closer to objective truth and reality. It is how science makes progress these days.

Jacobsen: Do scientific theories progress slowly or in stages, more often, in the modern period, e.g., late 20th century to early 21st century? Although, you mentioned “steady progress.” I want to delve a bit more into this, as you’re a properly trained practitioner and an intelligent person.

Desjardins: Steady progress with an occasional breakthrough. Most scientific contributions are incremental these days. But there is such a massive number of scientists and money for science that science evolves quite rapidly in several areas. Just take, for example, the rapid development of RNA vaccines (at my institution) to address the COVID pandemic.

Jacobsen: With these “Grand Challenges,” what one feels the most fulfilling?

Desjardins: Probably my Black Belt at Tae Kwon Do. I pursued it with my twins, and it was a wonderful, shared family experience. We all earned our Black Belts at the same time.

Jacobsen: Have you planned your funeral?

Desjardins: I’m working as a physician in the U.S., which is well known as the country with the most inhuman treatment of its physicians. We all saw this during the pandemic. I suspect I will die on the job, given that many of my close U.S. physician colleagues have been killed or become physically disabled due to their work conditions. Once I die on the job, I wish to be cremated.

Jacobsen: How would you like to be remembered?

Desjardins: He was a great husband and a great father.

Jacobsen: What are your hopes for your children?

Desjardins: I want them to leave the U.S. and return to Canada before the U.S. collapses. They will have a great life in Canada.

Jacobsen: What has the community of the high-I.Q. given you?

Desjardins: It keeps my neurons active.

Footnotes

[1] Academic Physician; Member, OlympIQ Society; Member, Mega Society.

[2] Individual Publication Date: May 1, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/desjardins-2; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2022: https://in-sightpublishing.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Tor Arne Jørgensen on Adolescence and Quirks of Historical Figures: 2019 Genius of the Year – Europe, World Genius Directory (7)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/05/01

Abstract

Tor Arne Jørgensen is a member of 50+ high IQ societies, including World Genius Directory, NOUS High IQ Society, 6N High IQ Society just to name a few. He has several IQ scores above 160+ sd15 among high range tests like Gift/Gene Verbal, Gift/Gene Numerical of Iakovos Koukas and Lexiq of Soulios. Tor Arne was also in 2019, nominated for the World Genius Directory 2019 Genius of the Year – Europe. He is the only Norwegian to ever have achieved this honor. He has also been a contributor to the Genius Journal Logicon, in addition to being the creater of toriqtests.com, where he is the designer of now eleven HR-tests of both verbal/numerical variant. His further interests are related to intelligence, creativity, education developing regarding gifted students. Tor Arne has an bachelor`s degree in history and a degree in Practical education, he works as a teacher within the following subjects: History, Religion, and Social Studies. He discusses: Bill Sidis; streetcar transfers; The Animate and the Inanimate; Newton; the Church Fathers; big discoveries in their mid-20s; earliest memory; earlier indications of a high-I.Q.; academic record; the education of the next generation; the extracurricular activities; the bullying; Ulysses; a healthy culture of keeping a gifted student from getting a big head; certain extremes; James Maxwell; Willard Gibbs; brown horse; interests different than the other kid; the competition with the smart girl in class; behavioural signs of talent; strident stories of violence; Ulysses appeal; the law of Jante; fuel; and theories.

Keywords: bullying, genius, Gibbs, intelligence, Leonardo Da Vinci, Maxwell, Newton, Sidis, Tor Arne Jørgensen.

 Conversation with Tor Arne Jørgensen on Adolescence and Quirks of Historical Figures: 2019 Genius of the Year – Europe, World Genius Directory (7)

*Please see the references, footnotes, and citations, after the interview, respectively.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Let’s continue with a small addendum on some high functioning people in history, and some who appeared to fizzle out, but simply worked in, more or less, solitude: Bill Sidis, or William James Sidis, is referenced a lot, by a lot of people, in the high-I.Q. communities. What are your first impressions about him – surface level stuff?

Tor Arne Jørgensen[1],[2]*: Incredible brilliant person, put in a system that does not “get” him and thereby does not understand his dire needs for acceptance in a far to cruel world. Exploited and give a burden that shorted his lifespan, by the very people his but his trust in and for what, or for who one might ask? Alone, fleeing form the shackles of society and it`s presumptions.

Jacobsen: What seemed to be the fascination with streetcar transfers for Bill?

Jørgensen: We all have our quirky little precious gems; this was his to collect and to enjoy.

Jacobsen: How does his perspective on the cosmos in The Animate and the Inanimate seem to you?

Jørgensen: I have not read all his work, but from what I know about him and his work, a man far ahead of his time. Sidis work at a young age made him even more so an enigmatic study for our understanding of the cosmos. Sidis can be viewed upon as a beacon, that directs us toward an even more clear comprehension of what to grasp of the cosmological spectrum.

Jacobsen: Newton, apparently, was a notorious asshole in his time. A vindictive person against enemies, unsure if real or perceived as I am not a subject matter expert on his life. Also, a purported lifelong virgin, undisputed mathematical genius, and ‘plugged into the universe,’ according to famous smart person and science popularizer with a specialization in astrophysics, Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson. What do you think of Newton?

Jørgensen: As you and me both, of what understanding I may hold of him, that the despitefulness and cruel intentions towards his surrounding can be understood in so far as to being left with the feeling of the “misunderstood genius.” The desperate notion of contentment be fulfilled through ones work as in an attempt of despair to be accepted among one’s general population. Engrossed in one’s work can further be understood, whereby the time spent at anything that does not produce a hint of common sense to a brilliant genius is to be avoided at all costs, a clean mental health and physical outlook is to behold as the standard for excellence.

Jacobsen: Why was Newton able to spend more time on the Church Fathers than on mathematics and still able to mathematically map the middle world of space and time as we know it, Cartesian coordinate system stuff?

Jørgensen: I feel the need for enlightenment at this point, mostly due to the lack of knowledge at this point. Can only guess as to why, but his brilliant mind was preconstructed in the pursuit of knowledge within both the laws of cosmos through his understanding of both physics and math.

Jacobsen: Most smart people make their big discoveries in their mid-20s, I believe, or most mathematical geniuses, e.g., physicists, and the like, then never make another big discovery. Newton was making breakthroughs throughout his life, including into old age. Why?

Jørgensen:  Look at Leonardo Da Vinci, his was productive until he died at age of 67, the intelligence is solving down by age, but is the same true of creativity?

Jacobsen: You wanted to talk about early life for you, too. So, a quick side step, what is your earliest memory?

Jørgensen: My time at a place called Bråstad which is located about 3 miles inland from the town of Arendal. This was back in 1977, remembering a brown horse that we would go riding on with my father, happy times.

Jacobsen: Were there earlier indications of a high-I.Q. for you? Or was this something simply not noticed by parents and surrounding community?

Jørgensen: No there was not, I just felt a bit outside, a stranger to my elements. I did not like what the other kids liked. Remembered that I was curious of my surroundings a lot more then the other kids, I could find myself asking why is about most things, the reply back was always do not worry yourself about these things it is what it is, leave it alone. Sadly, I did.

Jacobsen: How was your academic record in elementary school and high school?

Jørgensen: As I was a late bloomer, and I had no one to support me in academics at an early stage, I was an average kid with average grades. It was not until later in high school that I excelled, but as to records, it was not popular to be clever, amongst my classmates. But there was one test I did, this was fun as we had a clever girl in our class that was looked upon as smart. The test was a 60minutes test, and to make the story short, I used 15minutes and aced the test as the only one in my class. The second best was the girl, and she used the whole 60minutes.

Jacobsen: What do you try to impart to students at your work? How do you try to mentor and educate your children in a similar manner, if so? The education of the next generation of Norwegians is a huge responsibility, and probably hugely underpaid, so thank you for dedicating your talents and taking a likely income hit in the process.

Jørgensen: Well firstly thanks, and yes, we as teachers is vastly underpaid compared to the work, we put in. In my everyday job I try my best to unlock the students inhered creative abilities in the hope of creating a base for self-development and structured direction of how to get where you can realize your most potent potential for academic success.

Jacobsen: What were some of the extracurricular activities, if any, to stimulate mental activity and satisfy personal curiosity?

Jørgensen: Meditation, done as reason to develop an awareness as to maximize your physical/mental capabilities.

Jacobsen: Were you bullied? If so, how? If yes, or not in fact, how would you advise younger bullied students to deal with the bullying?

Jørgensen: Yes, bigtime! To school and back home again, there was a gang that was hounding me and my brother a lot through many years. We back the got into bodybuilding and fought back, it then stopped. This is not a good solution as violence is never a solution, but it is what it is. Now I say to my students, try to walk away, or to confront through dialog. Most important is to stay strong mentally, believe in yourself, it always wins through in the end.

Jacobsen: What was your favourite book to read while young? One of the books that you re-read a lot.

Jørgensen: Mostly I watch movies, all I could get my hands on, books came later in life in high school. Then it was directed towards history, religion, politics, but if I would pick one, James Joyce “Ulysses.”

Jacobsen: How does Norway have a healthy culture of keeping a gifted student from getting a big head about having a more effective cognitive ability than others?

Jørgensen: In short: The law of Jante, keeps us in check.

Jacobsen: Albert Einstein famously was very unkempt. Bill Sidis had a real sweet tooth. Isaac Newton died a virgin. Is this a trend among the people noted as, at least, accomplished or directing their mental energy in a successful direction? A tendency towards certain extremes, e.g., Glenn Gould was a major hypochondriac and used all sorts of prescriptions to reduce anxiety and the like, probably against better medical judgment of experts.

Jørgensen: Did not know about Bill Sidis sweet tooth, funny, I cannot get enough of sweets, I eat as much as I can get every day, not good for my health, try to compensate with more training, I know I am just kidding myself with a healthy output with all the crap that I put into my system, but I can not help myself.

All I know is that time is not on my side, would love if I could live for 200 years, I would then have better time to get around to all I feel I need to do in my life, so for me short meals is an absolute, I do not see food as an enjoyment to be savored, but purely as fuel to keep me going.

Jacobsen: James Maxwell was known to have a huge productive output in a short period of time. How did he do it? History is your expertise, so I’m focusing there. You simply would know more.

Jørgensen: Well, I would hope so, as you say history is my field, but sadly not James Maxwell, I know of him, but not in the extent to say anything that is not already known about him I general. But I understand as to what you mentioned as high periods of output, as this is the case for myself as well. I have these periods where all I do is work on what ever it takes in days end. Do not why this is though.

Jacobsen: Willard Gibbs’ footnotes are said to have been the inspiration for several major discoveries in the lifetime research of the next generation of researchers. It has a semblance of Newton; his crumbs are others’ lifetimes. Is this mythological more than fact, or is there something of a truth here?

Jørgensen: I think that It at least should be noted as such.

Jacobsen: Do you remember the name of the brown horse riding with your father in 1977?

Jørgensen: No sadly I do not, he had 7 horses in total at one point, but do not remember any of their names as I was from the age of 2-5 years old during the time when he had them. We had at that time a small farm where we kept chicken, was breeding dogs, kept rabbits, and had an angry bull as I recall.

Jacobsen: How were your interests different than the other kids?

Jørgensen: We all did the same things as I use to tag a long, but it gave me little pleasure, especial when it came to ride mopeds, cars, I remembered that my brother and his friends use to talk about rims, tire size, sound system, and machine size, my mind was not tuned in, there was nothing special that I can remember thinking about, just that this was boring to listen to.

Jacobsen: Ah, the competition with the smart girl in class. It’s like an old rom-com early life story. Do you know what she ended up doing in later life?

Jørgensen: I think it was within engineering but am not sure as last time I talked to her was about 28 years ago, and I remembered just hearing about it.

Jacobsen: How do you notice behavioural signs of talent in students who may be struggling academically, as this is uncommon, because talent is uncommon, and a hunk of the talented can be spotted in their academic prowess?

Jørgensen: Like myself, one usually sees that something stands out in their behavior pattern that may indicate an inherent talent. It can be so much as to what those who possess this talent usually seek out their field as they then are experts in far beyond what is normal for their age group, and further give indications that they feel that other professional groups are boring, or that they get easily irritating as to their surroundings through the lack of understanding of their own role within a normal school setting.

Jacobsen: Were there any particularly strident stories of violence in the midst of the bullying?

Jørgensen: Yes, but that is a bit hurtful to rip up into now.

Jacobsen: What stood out about Ulysses to you?

Jørgensen: Summed up: The way the characters of the story are portrayed is exposed in all its emotional wonder.

Jacobsen: I recall the law of Jante in prior interviews with other Norwegians, and you. This was mentioned in the Deus Vult interview with Domagoj Kutle, too. He may have indirectly referenced In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal in the opening letter or editorial, in fact, to one issue of the newsletter, in a highly amusing manner. Something about the Catholic Church being under attack – alright then, cool. Also, how did the law of Jante form? Because I have no idea.

Jørgensen: Janteloven is a text written by the author Aksel Sandemose in 1933 and was first presented in the work A refugee crosses his trail. This text gives a good picture of “human beings’ inherent evil and ability to oppress one another”, as Aksel Sandemose believed to characterize human beings from their first interaction.

Jacobsen: Other than sweets, what foods are the fuel to keep you going?

Jørgensen: Incredibly simple diet, consisting of crispbread, plain bread, cereals of varied variety. I’m not a chef, and anything that can be made in under 2 minutes is great, will not waste my time on unnecessary tasks in order to fill my stomach with nutrients.

Jacobsen: Do you have any theories about history, about the cosmos, etc., in development or developed?

Jørgensen: As far as history is concerned, it only repeats itself in newer editions, like an onion where more layers are added as time progresses, only to be peeled away at each major historical event, when the whole process starts all over again. When it comes to the cosmos, where an outer unit should be behind everything and we on earth are considered the center. What, then, is the point of creating a universe that is constantly changing, as well as expanding, where the distances are so great that we will never be able to understand its vast content nor for that matter its sublime substance. What was then the intention of basing such a meaningless existence on such a degree, I find myself constantly asking…

Footnotes

[1] Tor Arne Jørgensen is a member of 50+ high IQ societies.

[2] Individual Publication Date: May 1, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/jorgensen-7; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2022: https://in-sightpublishing.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Michael Isom on New Test Developments and Old Tests: Member, World Genius Directory (2)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/04/15

Abstract

Michael Isom grew up in the birthplace of hip-hop, South Bronx New York, during its original emergence. Having also lived through its rise and urban renaissance of the mid-80s through the early 90s, Michael was able to experience many of the culture’s core lessons of true aboriginal history with respect to cultural identity, knowledge of self, responsibility through adherence to law, studiousness towards becoming the adept, and mastery of one’s being as thematic underpinnings of the rap music produced in that era. In later years after completing high school, he decided to pursue an undergraduate degree in Forensic Psychology and graduate education in Public Policy specializing in Management and Operations. Afterwards, he obtained an M.B.A. in Strategic Management in the wake of the dot-com era. In 2001, during the Super Bowl 35 Baltimore Ravens vs New York Giants intermission, Michael incidentally discovered what may have been the first online IQ test by the late Nathan Hasselbauer, founder of the New York High IQ Society, which soon after became the International High IQ Society. Having scored well past the 95th percentile requirement for entry, Michael was contacted years later by Victor Hingsberg of Canada, and was invited to take the test required to become a member of his newly established Canadian High IQ Society. After meeting its 98th percentile passing requirement and before moving on to TORR (99.86th percentile or 145 IQ requirement), Michael discovered what is undisputedly the most advanced cognitive assessment platform for IQ testing, in the world: IQExams.net. After a completing a battery of 40+ tests within a 1 1/2 year span of signing up, a clear picture of Michael’s scoring attributes emerged within the spatial, numerical, verbal, and mixed item logical areas, with a subsequent RIQ (Real IQ) calculation of 152. As his foray into the High Range Testing world continued, he happened to stumble upon a challenge issued by the ZEN High IQ Society: Two untimed IQ test submissions with a minimum IQ score of 156 (SD 15) are required for entry. And those submissions have to come from a pre-selected set of untimed high range tests. Since Michael already met half the requirements with his first attempt score on VAULT (163), he only needed one other test to qualify – hence Dr. Jason Betts’ test battery: Lux25, WIT, and Mathema are listed as accepted tests for Zen. Scoring 156 on Lux25 not only satisfied the entry requirement, but it also accompanied the rest of his scores on Betts’ test battery for a 151 TrueIQ. With the above experience, Michael decided to gain more exposure to other high range tests from other authors. After taking both the MACH and SPARK tests simultaneously (scoring 168 and 165 respectively on the first attempt), he proceeded towards a specific numerical test, GIFT Numerical III on which he scored 164. After also gaining entry into both the SATORI and TRIPlE4 High IQ Societies, he completed the untimed G.E.T. (Genius Entrance Test) mixed item test in minimal time. After receiving a final score of 162, he returned to IQExams.net and executed one of the most gifted performances on any tightly timed spatial IQ test he’s ever taken. His recent first attempt score of 160 on the incredibly challenging gFORCE IQ test exemplifies that cognitive fortitude can be taken to the brink, while spatial design and difficulty are taken to the next level. He discusses: newer test developers and old tests

Keywords: intelligence, IQ, IQ tests, Jason Betts, Michael Isom, Xavier Jouve, World Genius Directory.

Conversation with Michael Isom on New Test Developments and Old Tests: Member, World Genius Directory (2)

*Please see the references, footnotes, and citations, after the interview, respectively.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Are there particularly newer test developers whose tests you’ve taken where people should be keeping an eye on for themselves? Others are more known because they are more prominent.

Michael Isom: There are a number of emerging test developers, more so in the verbal space. And even among the incumbent developers, it’s quickly learned that certain persons may not even take synonyms into account in the creation process.

This for example results in increased subjectivity risk, in which scoring consistency can be adversely affected. And such debates about objectivity control are also pervasive among different test types, (e.g., verbal, spatial, logical, numerical, mixed) where verbal usually has the highest abstraction risk of heightened subjectivity.

So how do you squelch or best minimize these irregularities? One of my favorite verbal tests ever created is the VAULT test, which contained very noted subjectivity control by keeping the terms very culture fair and more tangibly graphic or concrete. They weren’t too abstract, but still retained certain graduated increments of consistency over the exam’s progression.

In comparison to other tests, it’s still one of the very best verbal tests as a critical reference point, in my opinion. New test creators will expand testing for the high range into new areas. And will eventually innovate a divergent reach of the high range, in which consistent correlation of verified actions in the world will be used to support more detailed accuracy of high range test results.

High Range (HR) items tend to change often in comparison to their proctored equivalents. The initial tradeoff is the ability to test adaptation to item type change under pressure vs long-term data accrual of highly repetitive item types over move granular increments.

Perspectives about the rate of item type change on an IQ test are sharply delineated between high-range (HR) test creators and professional psychometricians, the latter of whom tend to make their items repeat very often. The same question types can appear ten or more times before changing even once. Many in the HR testing space have issues with such non-variability, and one of several reasons is that university-trained psychometricians are required to test the difficulty level increases and the calculi for that particular item type over very small incremental progressions.

So, they have to rigorously test minute gradients of scale in difficulty, whereas test developers in the HR space have a lot more freedom to change the item type. However, they’re accruing less data for any specific item type, as it changes more often – thus revealing a hidden trade-off that occurs, which brings me to the next point of standard and HR tests targeting very different components or areas of cognition. The commonplace response is “Okay, you still need to go to a licensed psychologist to get your IQ tested. You can’t do it using an HR testing scenario.”

I’ve often disputed it because the assertion incorrectly assumes that all dimensions of both an HR and standard IQ test are one and the same in exact precision. And while there’s considerable overlap, there are some very stark differences in terms of how they are steered, with each potentially having mutually exclusive aspects of cognitive targeting with measured components moving inversely to each other.

Standard IQ tests usually hinge much more on processing speed than their HR testing equivalents, for example. HR IQ tests, especially those that are untimed, hinge more on depth. So what you see, is this movement towards an inflection point of equilibrium, in which one cognitive dimension trades off against the other. In other words, speed trades off against depth.

The default test structure starts off favoring speed with simpler items. As the difficulty increases by item and type, depth becomes more important. However speed, at some point will most likely be sacrificed, in favor of depth, which in a substantial number of cases is arguably harder to measure. For example, at 140 and above, it’s very hard to tell the difference between a 140 and a 160 on most tests, due in part to being highly sensitive between the 85 to 115 range, indicating a possible breakdown as one gets closer to 130+.

At the 140 and above mark, you need the HR testing scenario to measure difficulty levels not normally associated with the general population. Even though a significant number of HR tests are timed, these are critically focused on processing speed in relation to the scale of hardness.

There are quite a few parallel debates going on that will actually affect the evolution of the HR IQ test over time. For example, some creators adhere to very strict logic paths on both multiple-choice and open-ended tests, timed and untimed. Others seek to measure targeted amalgams or interfaces of logic, imagination, and perception within the same or at times an even more advanced context.

But it appears to become more complex as the number of test creators arrive and grow the space. And it could be in part due to noted differences in the manner in which general intelligence is measured. One of the caveats concerns HR tests that seem to measure general intelligence (at differing grades), but may more so in fact be measuring highly congruent logic patterns between test author and test taker. Such parallels may still have questionable sampling applicability, especially if the N values with respect to Chronbach’s Alpha and Pearson R correlations are too low. In other words, large sample sizes are a supreme factor.

Dr. Xavier Jouve may have been the first to invent an online computer-adaptive format (JCTI, TRI-52) in matrix testing that attained a 90+% correlation with the WAIS Subtest for Matrix Reasoning. The sample size was around 300. As a matter of fact, he’s the only one to have administered the JCTI and the WAIS to the same populations. And from observation of anecdote, it appears that even though he previously sold (for a very minimal sum) IQ test certificates for JCTI results, the RIX (Reasoning Index) range more accurately applies only in comparison to the WAIS Subtest for Matrix Reasoning – not necessarily the overall of FSIQ (Full-Scale IQ). Several persons who’ve scored in the 130 range on the JCTI reported FSIQs of 140+ on the WAIS. And it’s not that such examples qualify as markers or guidelines for extrapolation, but similar patterns are well noted.

A recent question appeared on social media concerning how test-takers feel about certain spatial designs and their style in HR testing. But there’s an area of subjectivity where a testee can do very well on spatial tests from certain test designers but may have problems with those from certain others, because the visual orientation may be closer to modeled patterns of the former. So in a sense, it goes back to the overlap of (1) the affinity between designer and testee logic paths and (2) a more objective measure of general intelligence.

For example, I did unusually well on the MACH and SPARK tests, both of which I took simultaneously. However, I could see certain affinities in the design of those tests, as positive performance indicators. Because of how my train of thought was naturally oriented towards that particular style in the items, it was definitely a key intuitive advantage.

And given that a very large challenge concerns the correct interpretation of the question, if a testee is in tune with the actual test items, then the testee will not only clearly see the underlying question at hand, but also divergent patterns, whose indication can reveal logic traps or other conceptual detours to be avoided.

To illustrate, Dr. Jason Betts’ test battery  (Asterix, Lux25, Mathema, and the World Intelligence Test) is one of the most accurate HR test batteries I’ve experienced. It has 97 questions among those four specific tests that hone in on measuring several cognitive dimensions. And overall, it seems almost impervious to guessing and luck by mere coincidence.

One of the unusual aspects of his particular type of test structure is the intentional crossroads built into very specific items to see if one can accurately discern the correct path among the competing mirrors. At the same time, this acts as a preventive measure against excessive time leverage, which may result in score inflation. And in a sense, preventing persons from seeing past what is termed their “TrueIQ”.

The JCTI by Dr. Xavier Jouve established one of the most unique presentations of alternative matrices and still remains a paramount reference in cognitive assessment design to this day. I might have been one of the last people to receive a certificate before Cerebrals Society operations halted.

What I found the most unusual about the JCTI was that it was the first computer-adapted IQ test to hone in on a testee’s IQ area early, from where the questions get more difficult in response to more challenging answers. Later on, I took his TRI-52 test, which I believe gave me a much more striking result.

Regarding anything remotely close in design, I’ve only found one specific test with a similar concept; the LDSE or Long Duration Spatial Examination, created by psychometrician Hans Sjoberg. Then again, it was based on the JCTI. However, it boasts an unusually high correlation to professionally proctored IQ tests, as evidenced by a Pearson R correlation of 0.95 with N = 20 reporting scores.

In bringing everything together, you’re starting to see a situation where initial testing opportunities may occur on social media to see if potential items or similar variants are likely to be stable later on, in the official release phase. This usually supports a better Chronbach’s Alpha. Small puzzles or items may be unexpectedly released to get a glimpse of actual vs anticipated answer patterns. Test creators will obviously make the adjustments to correct for unintended distortions in the answer expectancy range.

It’s normal for someone to posit “I created this particular puzzle, and here’s the opportunity to solve it. This numerical sequence, verbal analogy or spatial item has to be tested to get a feel for the expected answer pattern that supports a reasonable Chronbach’s Alpha.” It definitely applies more so to open-ended items. And a key benefit is that the test designer gets to learn from the response mechanisms that accrue in relation to each item, prior to the official test release.

So subsequent test releases can offer a better idea of what to expect over time. And preliminary norms tend to be better adjusted if arising out of initial item examination and subsequent beta testing. Based on mere observation, wide swings moving from the preliminary to the first norm tend to be accompanied by test reliability challenges, looming not too far behind. In other words, even though the preliminary norm is not as important as the first official and beyond, paying very close attention to precise estimates and assumptions in scoring differentiation and test progression scale can improve the transition to the first norm.

And quite a bit of feedback can be gained, even from small samples. In comparison, standardized tests or proctored IQ tests have a massive accrual of IQ test data from possibly hundreds of thousands of people over so many decades of highly controlled administrations.

The only way that the HR testing space could possibly match such incumbent advantages by direct correlation is through consistent increases in score pair reporting numbers and accuracy from gold-standard tests such as the WAIS, SB, Ravens 2, or the Cattell. One of the most overlooked statistical factors is the sample size associated with the Pearson-R value. If one can move in the direction of N = 30 or greater, in terms of official score reporting by testees, then test correlation with the general populace also becomes better supported by the fact that the number of subsequent norm adjustments is precisely minimized.

At present, there is something else occurring that’s a bit more divergent, but supports the evolution of high range examination long-term. Where proctored exams and academia are positioned on one side and HR or online testing uniquely on the other, there is something called the International Cognitive Ability Research or ICAR, which was developed between the University of Cambridge in England and Northwestern University in Chicago, Illinois.

This particular project by mere virtue of its application demonstrated that online testing has several distinct advantages over more traditional modes. One of which is that it allows for very fast data accrual and scale in real-time (i.e., 97,000+ participants in the overall project), with the only limiting factors outside competent application development being bandwidth and network reliability. Two specific ICAR tests have been able to successfully overcome these in their rapid and vast market reach.

One test is the ICAR16 and another is the ICAR60, both of which dealt with visual-spatial rotations, simplified spatial and object orientations (i.e., odd one out anti-patterns or visual sequence fit of presented objects).

One of the original ICAR creators is a psychometrician who had several active tests on IQExams.net termed the Cambridge tests, which were noted to have very high correlations with the WAIS. Although there may have been disagreement about the repetitive nature of the items presented, this serves as the spark where professionally licensed psychologists or psychometricians on an individual basis are willing to work with test developers, statisticians, and technologists in the HR testing space.

Emergent platforms like IQExams.net are very transparent with test statistics. Other incumbent developers may also have specialized knowledge as mathematicians, statisticians, and psychometricians. And a handful usually accrues data analysis archives with some of the best HR test stats available.

Newcomers can better exploit the value of getting near-instantaneous feedback on targeted test items. Although a small advantage, it does serve somewhat as a compensatory measure against the previous time accrual constraints experienced by more experienced developers, especially those who started pre-internet. Now, the feedback loop can be better incorporated into more reliable test designs.

Time allotment in HR testing is another challenging aspect of cognitive measurement design, and can even impact test reliability in a way that poses arguably more risk than item subjectivity. Working memory capacity and processing speed are two of several cognitive aspects typically associated with this dimension. But at its most precise application, it can control for certain other elements in strategic thinking about time tradeoffs, during an actual test.

For example, I can increase the difficulty level of the next several items, by strategically placing what appears to be a time-consuming item just ahead of them. What the testee needs to realize is that what I’m really testing for is the ability to identify the shortcut in the current item that affords more time on the others. Therefore, seeking to set the time within a more precise range of cognitive pressure can give insight into how IQ relates to strategic time allocation.

In psychometric terms, the standard at the university level (i.e., if you look at the SAT, GRE, and GMAT), is about 2 minutes per test question item. It doesn’t necessarily have to be that exactly. In other cases, you have a few HRTs that are close to a minute per item, although most timed HRTs in comparison are substantially longer than 2 minutes per item for testing difficulty within the higher IQ ranges.

Footnotes

[1] Member, World Genius Directory.

[2] Individual Publication Date: April 15, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/isom-2; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2022: https://in-sightpublishing.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Richard May (“May-Tzu”/”MayTzu”/”Mayzi”) on “Why is There No Sacred Music?”: Co-Editor, “Noesis: The Journal of the Mega Society” (9)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/04/08

Abstract

Richard May (“May-Tzu”/“MayTzu”/“Mayzi”) is a Member of the Mega Society based on a qualifying score on the Mega Test (before 1995) prior to the compromise of the Mega Test and Co-Editor of Noesis: The Journal of the Mega Society. In self-description, May states: “Not even forgotten in the cosmic microwave background (CMB), I’m an Amish yuppie, born near the rarified regions of Laputa, then and often, above suburban Boston. I’ve done occasional consulting and frequent Sisyphean shlepping. Kafka and Munch have been my therapists and allies. Occasionally I’ve strived to descend from the mists to attain the mythic orientation known as having one’s feet upon the Earth. An ailurophile and a cerebrotonic ectomorph, I write for beings which do not, and never will, exist — writings for no one. I’ve been awarded an M.A. degree, mirabile dictu, in the humanities/philosophy, and U.S. patent for a board game of possible interest to extraterrestrials. I’m a member of the Mega Society, the Omega Society and formerly of Mensa. I’m the founder of the Exa Society, the transfinite Aleph-3 Society and of the renowned Laputans Manqué. I’m a biographee in Who’s Who in the Brane World. My interests include the realization of the idea of humans as incomplete beings with the capacity to complete their own evolution by effecting a change in their being and consciousness. In a moment of presence to myself in inner silence, when I see Richard May’s non-being, ‘I’ am. You can meet me if you go to an empty room.” Some other resources include Stains Upon the Silence: something for no oneMcGinnis Genealogy of Crown Point, New York: Hiram Porter McGinnisSwines ListSolipsist SoliloquiesBoard GameLulu blogMemoir of a Non-Irish Non-Jew, and May-Tzu’s posterousHe discusses: “Why is There No Sacred Music?”.

Keywords: Eugene Wigner, George Carlin, Gregorian Chants, J.S. Bach, Lewis Eugene Rowell, May-Tzu, Mick Jagger, mirrors, Noesis, Richard Dawkins, Richard May, Salt and Pepper, Sir Fred Hoyle, The Rolling Stones, Vivaldi.

Conversation with Richard May (“May-Tzu”/”MayTzu”/”Mayzi”) on “Why is There No Sacred Music?”: Co-Editor, “Noesis: The Journal of the Mega Society” (9)

*Please see the references, footnotes, and citations, after the interview, respectively.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: “Why is There No Sacred Music?” asks a question, which I must ask: Why is there no sacred music, Tzu?

Richard May[1],[2]*: There’s plenty of sacred music. Have you listened to the musical works of, e.g., Richard Dawkins? The Atheist community has historically written the most transcendent music. Forget J.S. Bach, Vivaldi, and Gregorian chants.

Jacobsen: You wrote, “If sacred music were the only ‘doctrine’ of the church, then I could believe.” George Carlin similarly remarked, “The only good thing ever to come out of religion was the music.” Have you ever had any religious beliefs whatsoever in a mainstream normative sense?

May: Funny, but inaccurate. Carlin missed that Judaism was far more civilizing than Roman pagan religions. The Jews freed their slaves after 7 years, for example. Hillel the Elder, when asked by a pagan to explain Judaism, while standing on one foot, said, ”Do not do to others what you would not have others do to you. All the rest is commentary.” What’s not to like about that?

I don’t remember my religious beliefs in utero, if any, or the color of the wallpaper in my mother’s womb, as so many do. When I was under four years old I was given a wax angel candle and told that it would protect me from goblins coming down the chimney. I may have been scared by a children’s story about goblins. Or maybe goblins came down the chimney.

But at a later age I never understood how Jesus could take-away ‘sins’ or what that even meant. I thought I was stupid. I didn’t know that Jews and Muslims considered this ‘taking away sins’ a heresy. I didn’t understand what ‘sins’ were. No one explained to me that to ‘sin’ came from the Greek word “hamartia,” which was a term from archery meaning “to miss the mark.”

I remember before the age of four asking my father why the moon phases occurred. He said God did it. He knew perfectly well the correct explanation. Then I asked Father what made God? This ended my father’s astronomical explanations.

If my memory of this occurrence is not a confabulation, surprisingly I may have actually been an intelligent little boy!

In the 4th grade I learned that there was no Santa Clause and hence, that parents lied to their children. Afterwards I distinctly remember going to a children’s Golden Book encyclopedia and where it was located in the class room, in order to look up “God” to discover, by analogy with Santa Clause, whether God was also a lie that parents told their children. But disappointingly there was no listing for God in the encyclopedia.

At an older age, maybe my early teens, I decided that if there was a “God,” he would not be worse than men, i.e., primitively tribal and genocidal. I was appalled by the experience of going to church, ancient ladies singing weird songs, which fortunately only happened maybe four times in my life. I told Mother that I did not “believe in” church. She cried.

Jacobsen: What is music? 

May: Music is a tonal analog of the emotions, Thinking about Music, an Introduction to the Philosophy of Music by Rowell. I think Rowell nailed it.

Jacobsen: What is sacred?

May: Something is sacred if it brings you to a higher part of yourself.

Jacobsen: What differentiates music from, simply speaking, sacred music?

May: If music inspires you to shoot your brothers or the neighborhood cop on his beat, then it may be at a different level than say, e.g., J.S. Bach or Gregorian chants.

I like to contemplate as a koan Mick Jagger and The Rolling Stones doing Gregorian chants or “Push it” by Salt and Pepper, done very slowly with the lyrics translated into Latin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCadcBR95oU   .

Jacobsen: If we had a better grasp of mathematics, logic, and reason, would we be able to enjoy music better? Is there an innate sensibility of mathematics, logic, and reason, behind the harmonizing beatifications of the ear in ‘good’ music?

May: I don’t think so. — ‘”the enormous usefulness of mathematics in the natural sciences is something bordering on the mysterious and there is no rational explanation for it.” — Eugene Wigner

Try natural selection! “The logic of our brains is the logic of the universe.” — Sir Fred Hoyle

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Unreasonable_Effectiveness_of_Mathematics_in_the_Natural_Sciences

But what Wigner has called the “unreasonable effectiveness of mathematics,” as applied to understanding physical reality, may in my view have a corresponding principle, “the unreasonable effectiveness of music,” as applied to human brain physiology in achieving altered states of consciousness.

Jacobsen: Following from the previous question, would this mean an objective ability to grasp something akin to the Good via pitch, frequency, tone, and timbre, and higher harmonics, and the talent to reason, ratiocinate, and mathematicize?

May: I don’t know. This is beyond me. Perceiving the Good certainly is dependent upon one’s state of consciousness, which may be altered by music, drugs, dance, massage, prayer and meditation.

Jacobsen: What would Pythagoras say in a pithy way? 

May: “Music is the geometry of the soul.”— May-Tzu

Footnotes

[1] Co-Editor, “Noesis: The Journal of the Mega Society.”

[2] Individual Publication Date: April 8, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/may-9; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Veronica Palladino on Life, Views, and Work: Member, Glia Society (1)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/04/08

Abstract

Veronica Palladino is a Member of the Glia SocietyShe discusses: growing up; a sense of an extended self; the family background; the experience with peers and schoolmates; some professional certifications; the purpose of intelligence tests; high intelligence discovered; the extreme reactions to and treatment of geniuses; the greatest geniuses in history; a genius from a profoundly intelligent person; profound intelligence necessary for genius; work experiences and jobs; particular job path; the gifted and geniuses; God; science; the tests taken and scores earned (with standard deviations); the range of the scores; ethical philosophy; social philosophy; economic philosophy; political philosophy; metaphysics; philosophical system; meaning in life; meaning externally derived, or internally generated; an afterlife; the mystery and transience of life; and love.

Keywords: Cechov, Glia Society, God, Great Britain, Italy, Leicester, Marconi-Tesla, medicine, Molise, Veronica Palladino.

Conversation with Veronica Palladino on Life, Views, and Work: Member, Glia Society (1)

*Please see the references, footnotes, and citations, after the interview, respectively.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: When you were growing up, what were some of the prominent family stories being told over time?

Veronica Palladino[1],[2]*: My parents are two ordinary people but extraordinary to my sister and me. Even though my father passed away a few years ago, his precious teaching is always in my heart and in my mind.

Jacobsen: Have these stories helped provide a sense of an extended self or a sense of the family legacy?

Palladino: My family is the pivot of my life. It is a continuous resource, it is the nourishment for the soul when it needs to be refreshed.

Jacobsen: What was the family background, e.g., geography, culture, language, and religion or lack thereof?

Palladino: My family is Italian. My mother was born in Great Britain, exactly in Leicester. I was born and I live in Italy in a small region called Molise. It is a beautiful place where nature, ancient traditions and authenticity create a jumble of good feelings and spontaneity.

Jacobsen: How was the experience with peers and schoolmates as a child and an adolescent?

Palladino: I was an extremely shy and reserved child. I preferred to invent fantastic stories full of enchanted worlds in which to take refuge to avoid relationship with others. My imposing and robust physical appearance created in me embarrassment and displeasure. I didn’t feel accepted and I kept a low profile to hide who I was. I did not want to share my ideas, thoughts and eccentricities with others for fear of not being understood. I showed a protective armor against evils. Now I know that I am what I am, simply.

Jacobsen: What have been some professional certifications, qualifications, and trainings earned by you?

Palladino: I am medical doctor and I have written four books: Il diario del Martedì, Un mondo altro, La Morte delle Afroditi bionde and Persone e lacrime.

Jacobsen: What is the purpose of intelligence tests to you?

Palladino: According to me the purpose of an intelligence test is to challenge one’s cognitive abilities to improve weaknesses and to corroborate potential. The result obtained should not be taken too seriously. It must be a track to evolve and do better.

Jacobsen: When was high intelligence discovered for you?

Palladino: After twenty, I have done a test for fun with a friend.

Jacobsen: When you think of the ways in which the geniuses of the past have either been mocked, vilified, and condemned if not killed, or praised, flattered, platformed, and revered, what seems like the reason for the extreme reactions to and treatment of geniuses? Many alive today seem camera shy – many, not all.

Palladino: Being a genius is no guarantee of success. Many factors affect the life of a brilliant mind, just think of the Marconi-Tesla comparison or the misunderstanding reserved for a great Italian writer like Svevo. The examples are numerous. Understanding the light and power of a great mind is a difficult task. Every genius has a particular and unique interaction with the world.

Jacobsen: Who seems like the greatest geniuses in history to you?

Palladino: There is not one in particular, I could say Bohr, Leibniz, Goethe, Bach, Ramanujan, Wittgenstein, Aeschylus but it is impossible for me to choose because everyone has a wonderful gift that does not admit comparison

Jacobsen: What differentiates a genius from a profoundly intelligent person?

Palladino: A highly intelligent person has cognitive abilities greater than four standard deviations from the general population. A genius is not just intelligence, it is above all an emblem of strength, determination, creativity, originality and innovation.

Jacobsen: Is profound intelligence necessary for genius?

Palladino: No I think that genius definition does not require a profound intelligence necessarily. It is an extremely complex and various concept.

Jacobsen: What have been some work experiences and jobs held by you?

Palladino: I worked as an on-call doctor. Now I am a resident.

Jacobsen: Why pursue this particular job path?

Palladino: I believe in medicine, in helping people with love and truth, in improving ourselves. I chose my career path because I want to give meaning to my work, helping to alleviate, even if in my small way, the worries of others. Moreover, scientific studies allow you to train your mind and find explanations to the many questions that concern humanity. Then I love to write. It is a necessity to travel continously in fantastic lands. Cechov said medicine is my lawful wife and literature is my mistress.

Jacobsen: What are some of the more important aspects of the idea of the gifted and geniuses? Those myths that pervade the cultures of the world. What are those myths? What truths dispel them?

Palladino: There is a lot of confusion about the concept of genius and gifted. Genius goes back to antiquity. In Roman mythology each person was born with a guardian spirit called Genius. During the Italian Renaissance the world designated something truly exceptional about the individual. Now the term “genius” is no longer in style to describe highly gifted students or adults. Giftedness is a brain-based difference that contributes to our vibrant and neurodiverse world. Those who are profoundly gifted score in the 99.9th percentile on IQ tests and have an exceptionally high level of intellectual prowess. Genius is a poetic dream, gifted is a scientific definition.

Jacobsen: Any thoughts on the God concept or gods idea and philosophy, theology, and religion?

Palladino: God is pure light, perfect science. Many do not believe in the existence of God but those who believe in it know that his existence, even if indefinable, fills life. Words do not have sufficient expressive capacity to describe what God means to those who believe. God is only total love.

Jacobsen: How much does science play into the worldview for you?

Palladino: Science is the key to knowledge because it allows you to evolve and improve by accessing higher levels of knowledge but it is also the lock because without it, the understanding of every process is denied. Our  perceptions are different, false and fragmentary but science is coherent and indivisible because it is a unifying truth that is difficult to reach and the ways that lead to it are manifold and inaccessible. Many are lost and will never be able to grasp its essence which is the ultimate basis of our life, our unique breath.

Jacobsen: What have been some of the tests taken and scores earned (with standard deviations) for you?

Palladino: Numerus 154 sd 15, Matriq 179 sd15, Fiqure 157 sd 15 Lexiq 175 sd 15, Nerve 169 sd 15, Labcube 165 sd 15, VerbaNum 178 sd 15.

Jacobsen: What ethical philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Palladino:  For my professional duties I believe in the power of deontology, an ethical theory that uses rules to distinguish right from wrong. Deontology is often associated with philosopher Immanuel Kant. Kant believed that ethical actions follow universal moral laws. The word deontology derives from the Greek words for duty (deon) and science (or study) of (logos). In contemporary moral philosophy, deontology is one of those kinds of normative theories regarding which choices are morally required, forbidden, or permitted. In other words, deontology falls within the domain of moral theories that guide and assess our choices of what we ought to do (deontic theories), in contrast to those that guide and assess what kind of person we are and should be (aretaic [virtue] theories).

Jacobsen: What social philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Palladino: I believe in the power of social epistemology that is the philosophical study of the relevance of communities to knowledge. Social epistemology can be done descriptively or normatively. Weinstein and Stehr have written: “ From the beginning of scientific revolution  scientists, philosophers and laypersons have been concerned about the effects of knowledge on social relations. Although views differ about the details of this knowledge…, most observers have understood that the kind of knowledge that emanates from estabilished science can indeed be quite powerful in practice.

Jacobsen: What political philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Palladino: Nature is our mother and we should respect it in every political choice. Beyond the traditional ethical disputes concerning the good life for human beings and what political situation would best suit our development, others take up an alternative conception of humanity and its relationship with the living world.  “Environmentalism” is a political philosophy that does not concern itself with the rights of people or of society, but of the rights of the planet and other species. Environmentalism rejects such human-centered utilitarianism in favor of a broad ethical intrinsicism – the theory that all species possess an innate value independent of any other entity’s relationship to them.

Jacobsen: What metaphysics makes some sense to you, even the most workable sense to you?

Palladino: I believe in the priciples of Catholicism: life and dignity of the human person, solidarity, subsidiarity and respect.

Jacobsen: What worldview-encompassing philosophical system makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Palladino:  I follow my philosophy of life which is unique and tailor-made for me. Each of us is unique, each of us is glowing potential and has all the tools within himself to evolve into a better form. Fears, insecurities, excesses divert our path. Respecting yourself to respect others is the most powerful philosophy of life. “Homo sum,  humani nihil a me alienum puto” (Terence)

Jacobsen: What provides meaning in life for you?

Palladino: The purpose of my life is to seek the truth, the truth of knowledge, the truth of love, the truth of affections, the truth of creation. I want to pull away the veil of appearances and artifacts that cover things.

Jacobsen: Is meaning externally derived, internally generated, both, or something else?

Palladino: The meaning is internally generated.

Jacobsen: Do you believe in an afterlife? If so, why, and what form? If not, why not?

Palladino: I believe in life after death in a form inexplicable to human understanding beyond the physical laws. I imagine a density of love so great that it creates more love that does not let anything escape.

Jacobsen: What do you make of the mystery and transience of life?

Palladino:

I would like to answer  with a succinct word: Soldiers.

It is a poem of Giuseppe Ungaretti.

We are as

In autumn

On branches

The leaves.

For me, the poem represents what is transience of life. It underlines the irrationality of the human condition and the inevitable end we must all face. It renders all men no different than leaves that in autumn fall from the branches, following the natural course of nature.

Jacobsen: What is love to you?

Palladino: In my poem “To you everything” I explain love.

To you who told me not to cry,

To you, what a genuflect, you forced me to get up,

To you who have fenced off my despair,

My whole being

All my bright dark,

Everything they don’t see and don’t know.

In every secret, in every lie, in every artifact there

is only one truth,

for you, and no one else.

They tear my flesh, moods, words, dreams … I have nothing left.

I’m already dead but I don’t admit it.

I walk in apocalyptic inertia e I don’t find acceleration.

Limbo is deadly, hell awaits me

Only in the last healthy piece of cancer-defaced tissue

the last memory snuggles up with you,

the impulse of an omnipotent happiness.

To you everything.

According to me love is like quantum entanglement. When two or more particles link up in a certain way, no matter how far apart they are in space, their states remain linked. That means they share a common, unified quantum state.  (i∂̸ – m) ψ = 0.

Footnotes

[1] Member, Glia Society.

[2] Individual Publication Date: April 8, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/palladino-1; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2022: https://in-sightpublishing.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Debunking I.Q. Claims Discussion with Chris Cole, Richard May, and Rick Rosner: Member, Mega Society; Co-Editor, “Noesis: The Journal of the Mega Society”; Member, Mega Society (2)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/04/01

Abstract

Chris Cole is a longstanding member of the Mega Society. Richard May is a longstanding member of the Mega Society and Co-Editor of Noesis: The Journal of the Mega Society. Rick Rosner is a longstanding member of the Mega Society and a former editor of Noesis: The Journal of the Mega Society. They discuss: major warning signs of something awry; the minor, or subtle, warning signs; 4 standard deviations above the norm; the successes and failures of the Mega Test, the Ultra Test, the Power Test, and the Titan Test; 4 and 5 sigma above the norm; the principal design of the Adaptive Test; other extraordinary high-I.Q. societies; associative horizon; the Mega Test; the claims about the Mega Test; legitimate testing; extrapolations well beyond the norms of the mainstream tests; the motivation behind making claims well beyond the norms of the most used mainstream I.Q. tests; the more egregious I.Q. claims in 20th century; and the big lessons in debunking phony I.Q. claims.

Keywords: Adaptive Test, Aleph Society, Chris Cole, debunking, I.Q., intelligence, Keith Raniere, Marilyn vos Savant, Mega Society, Mega Test, Power Test, Richard Feynman, Richard May, Rick Rosner, standard deviation, The Plurality IQ Society, Titan Test, Ultra Test.

Debunking I.Q. Claims Discussion with Chris Cole, Richard May, and Rick Rosner: Member, Mega Society; Co-Editor, “Noesis: The Journal of the Mega Society”; Member, Mega Society (2)

*Please see the references, footnotes, and citations, after the interview, respectively.*

*Rosner section transcribed from audio.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: You have all been around the block. Your membership in the Mega Society has spanned decades. So, you’ve seen controversies, failed high-I.Q. societies, and proclamations to this-or-that I.Q., even individuals who spun off into fraudulent activities, messianic posing, and criminal behaviour. As a note on collectives of high-I.Q. people, when it comes to claimed high-I.Q. societies, what are the major warning signs of something awry, not quite right, with it?

Richard May[1]*: The major warning signs of statistical and psychometric incompetence, fraud, or madness are usually quite subtle. Please see below.

Rick Rosner[2]*: You got to start with the disclaimer that most people in high-IQ societies are well-behaved relatively normal people who like taking tests and solving puzzles, and there are only a few lunatics. And because the ones I belong to don’t get together very often, you don’t have a chance to see any warning signs developing.

Although, in the case of one guy from many years ago, you could see a guy who was kind of being physically dominant and, I guess, mentally dominant getting increasingly frustrated that people didn’t understand him or believe his theories. So, it was just an increasing belligerence or pre-belligerence.

I guess, a skosh of megalomania.

Chris Cole[3],[4]*: The major warning signs are the ones you list: fraudulent activity, messianic posing, and criminal behavior.

Jacobsen: Following from the previous question, what are the minor, or subtle, warning signs?

May: I get slightly suspicious if someone comes up with the most brilliant Theory of Everything ever, explained in a newly invented language of neologisms, which only the inventor of the theory himself can understand, especially if the theory makes no falsifiable predictions and none of those few who claim to understand the theory can explain it in their own words. I’m also slightly suspicious of, e.g., taxi cab drivers or barbers, who have conclusively proved Einstein’s theory of special and general relativity wrong.

If someone claims to be the most intelligent person in the history our solar system or to be the actual God of the Bible, then this level of measured intelligence may be beyond the current development of psychometric science, even with the Flynn effect. I’m probably too skeptical sometimes.

Also, branding of one’s associates by high-IQ types is often unnecessary in my view.

Rosner: Again, I don’t hang. I have no basis or nothing to talk about regarding this. It is not like I was living with a high-IQ person who slowly went crazy, besides myself. Really, in the last few years, I’ve gotten less crazy, more lazy. Lazy has replaced crazy.

Cole: The minor warning signs are incredible IQ claims.  As a rule of thumb anything above five sigma is not credible as is anything that has not been normed using regular statistical methods.

Jacobsen: Why is 4 standard deviations above the norm (e.g., mean 100, S.D. 15, I.Q. 160) such a difficult barrier to break in finding highly intelligent individuals?

May: Almost no one in the alleged “real world” is interested in measuring intelligence beyond the 4 sigma level. Where would you find a large sample of individuals beyond the top 1-per-30,000 level of intelligence to study? This level of intelligence is not a target level for standard IQ tests developed by psychologists. Why should it be? Which professions require IQs beyond the 4 sigma level? Even Nobels in physics probably depend more upon a mathematical ability sub-factor of general intelligence than upon super-high IQ per se. Two physics Nobel laureates didn’t qualify for inclusion in Lewis Terman’s study of the intellectually gifted, because their IQs were not sufficiently high! In addition Nature may sometimes not be ‘politically correct’. What if cognitive differences were discovered among various human sub-groups? For example, what if a growing number of trans-species individuals, who identify as advanced AI units, were found to be better at arithmetic addition?

Rosner: Several reasons, one, there aren’t that many people. 4-sigma level is one person in 30,000. Although, in real terms, it’s less rare than that because the average IQ of people on the street is like 105 or 110. The people with IQs of 35 are institutionalized. You don’t see them around. It’s rare. That’s one problem.

Problem two, it is hard to test. All the good high-end tests take dozens of hours to do well on. Thing two-and-a-half, many people who might score well on them might be successful and may not want to waste their time putting in 40 or 50 hours in something that doesn’t compensate them.

They could be trading stocks or coding or doing business deals or getting laid. None of which taking an IQ test helps.

Cole: High range tests require high range questions which are hard to create. Plus there is not much of a market.

Jacobsen: What have been the successes and failures of the Mega Test, the Ultra Test, the Power Test, and the Titan Test in identifying highly intelligent persons – despite being compromised?

May: There is evidence that uncompromised tests work better.

Rosner: Maybe, some smart people still trickle in. The Mega Test has been compromised since, probably, the late ‘90s or the internet made it possible to contaminate the questions by throwing around answers in chat rooms.

The Mega Test was the most successful in finding high-IQ people because the most people took it when it was published in Omni magazine. 4,000 people took it. It’s more than any other test ever.

Which means, though, more people have taken the Hoeflin tests than tests by any other author, though probably a strong second and possibly somebody who has overtaken Hoeflin because he has written dozens of tests is Paul Cooijmans, who has been writing tests for decades and has cranked out quite a few.

Some of his tests have certainly been taken by more than 100 people. In the aggregate, thousands of people must have taken Cooijmans tests. With the success of the Hoeflin tests, they have found, depending on the cutoff, hundreds of high-IQ people.

Some of those people got together and some people were mentored by other high-IQ people, and had their lives improved, including myself. So, the success of the Hoeflin tests is the large numbers of people who have taken them.

For years, I, and sometimes with partners or being asked to consult, pitched TV involving high-IQ-type competitions. The same kind of shit as Project Runway or American Idol. A talent search, but instead of for fashion designing or culinary skill or singing skill, it was for raw intelligence.

This is an idea that comes to people not infrequently, but just has never been turned into a show. But if you had a show that did that, that would be the most successful project ever to find high-IQ people because millions of people would see the show and tens of thousands of people, if there were high-IQ tests associated with the show, would try those tests.

But that project has never happened, which I think is stupid because reality shows are about following assholes around with cameras and there are plenty of high-IQ assholes. Not as a percentage of high-IQ people who are, as I said, mostly decent, normal-ish people.

But if out of 100 people who have managed to score 160 on an IQ test, there are probably a half-dozen who you could productively, entertainingly follow around with cameras.  

Cole: First of all Ron Hoeflin is a talented question framer.  Next he spent a lot of effort validating his questions.  Finally he normed them several different ways.

Jacobsen: In principle, what is realistically needed to test between – let’s say – 4 and 5 sigma above the norm, reliably and validly?

May: Perhaps advanced AI can be used to develop significantly improved high-range intelligence tests. Other neurobiological methods of assessment of the general factor of intelligence, ‘g’, may eventually make IQ tests obsolete. For example, measures of biological traits such as pitch discrimination ability (of sound frequencies), among other such physical measures, have been found to have surprisingly high correlations with general intelligence. This may be the way of cognitive ability assessment in the future.

Rosner: You need experienced test-builders. You need a decent amount of people to norm the problems on, to make sure the problems can actually measure high-IQs. You need their other scores to see what scores getting those problems right correspond to.

As I said, you need some kind of widespread exposure. You have to let hundreds of thousands of people know that the test exists. Ideally, that it’s something fun and/or cool to do.

Another condition is that it would be really, really helpful if the test took less than 20 hours to take. It would be helpful if someonecould spend 20 hours or 10 hours on the test and score near the ceiling, which is not a common thing among these tests.

Cole: To avoid spoilage you need question schemas, not single questions.  Then you need a way to automatically collect many samples.  Presumably this would be on the Internet.  A group of Mega members is working on this.  Contact me if you’d like to help [Ed. chris@questrel.com.].

Jacobsen: What is the principal design of the Adaptive Test, inasmuch can be stated at this time? (Is this series the first announcement of the test, by the way?)

Cole: Cf www.mental-testing.com.  There are some articles in Noesis.  Let me check with the team.

Jacobsen: What other extraordinary high-I.Q. societies have been observed by you – the highest, most inclusive, most exclusive, the most multi-planetary, least reliant on D.N.A. prejudice, most non-carbon-based, und so weiter?

May: The Plurality IQ Society

Top 0.0000000000000000000000000 … % of Multiverse

Previously the highest-IQ group founded was the Aleph Society, which sought to have at most fewer than one member per Multiverse potentially qualifiable. However, the Aleph is found to be insufficiently selective in its admissions criteria for several reasons. First, it only considered 3 dimensions of space and 1 dimension of time per universe. We feel that it is necessary to include all theoretically possible multiple dimensions of spaces and of times per universe of the Multiverse. (For multiple-time dimensions see, e.g.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_time_dimensions , https://arxiv.org/abs/0812.389 ,
https://bigthink.com/surprising-science/there-are-in-fact-2-dimensions-of-time-one-theoretical-ph ysicist-states/ )

Secondly, the Aleph only sought the highest IQ ‘individual’, including AIs, in the Multiverse ‘now’, i.e., at only one point in ‘time’ relative to one (1) observer, the Wormhole Officer (formerly called the Membership Officer). To remedy this we ‘now’ recognize that to whatever extent possible technologically, the Wormhole Officer must be a time traveler.

Thirdly, it is not sufficient that our psychometric instruments selecting at the Aleph level be culture free. Our IQ tests must also be genome free, i.e., free of any genetic influences upon performance. Speciesism is even more common than racism and gender-bias. We seek genetic justice in our member selection testing criteria. For example, in the past and even today, species with brains are unfairly advantaged over species without brains, including, of course, AIs. Why should an Isaac Newton have an IQ advantage over a slug, simply because a Newton has a brain? This obvious bias must be eliminated.

NB: All of the non-members of the Plurality IQ Society are Full Non-members and Official Non-members.

Jacobsen: What is the system of thought or the psychometric philosophy behind associative horizon?

Rosner: In my mind, when you get hit with a hard problem, one that might take more than ten hours to figure out. Part of it is how many different angles can you come up with on the problem. How many parts of life can you apply? How many possible analogies can you apply? How many keys are on your key ring to approach the problem?

When he talks about associative horizon, it is how many associations can you possibly come up with, with the symbols or whatever, that constitute the problem. To some extent, taking one of these high-range tests is profiling the author, trying to figure out, maybe, them, Hoeflin problems have a Hoeflin flavour to them, let you know if you are on the right track. Other test makers have flavours similar to them too.

It may be similar to their culture, say. The person building the problem found something in their world and boiled it down to an analogy. There is a popularish puzzle that is 7 d in a w.” You have to figure out what the “d” and the “w” are. It’s ‘days in a week.’ The problems can get tough. Another easy one. “5,280 f in an m,” ‘feet in a mile.’

So, “106 billion p who e l.” The “e” “l” is tough. You have to figure out. It is ‘people who ever lived.’ So, for a lot of IQ problems, they have at least some aspect of that. Decoding, figuring out what the symbols represent. Then it is an exercise in figuring out what could the “p” and the ‘p in e l’ stand for.

“6*10^23 As in an M.” My numbers might not be right. But ‘atoms in a mole,’ it is a test of cultural literacy. Often, there is further manipulation done to the symbols, so you have to work through two or three transformation or link two or three transformations to figure out the problem. It is how much cultural literacy do you have or do you give yourself, and then the flexibility for combining these things.

It is how much different stuff can you bring to bear on a fairly obscure or convoluted problem.

Jacobsen: How did you first come to find the Mega Test?

May: Actually I don’t remember. It was about 40 years ago. I probably met Ron Hoeflin through my membership in the Triple Nine Society. This was probably my initial connection to the Mega Test.

Rosner: Some guys in my dorm told me about the Mega. I must’ve already been IQ braggy. Yuck.

Cole: Saw it in Omni Magazine.

Jacobsen: What were the claims about the Mega Test – and your score(s) in each section on it – by Ronald Hoeflin, the media, and others?

May: Ron Hoeflin told me that I was the 2nd person to obtain a perfect score on the 24 verbal analogies, I believe. I think Marilyn Vos Savant was the first. I certainly didn’t tell many people, beyond my girl friend. I remember showing a copy of the Mega Test to one young woman, thinking she might be interested. She just laughed and laughed. Neil Blincom of Mr. Pecker’s original, illustrious National Enquirer tried to interview me once when I was Membership Officer of the Triple Nine Society. I pondered this offer deeply for a fraction of a second. I remembered Chris. (never forget the decimal point) Harding’s interview, “World’s Highest IQ Genius is an Unemployed Janitor” and decided not to be interviewed. I avoided the media.

Rosner: So, the claims were the Mega was the world’s hardest IQ test. By hardest, having the highest ceiling, the score a perfect score would get you, for instance. I think after the sixth norming, after Ron looked at 4,000 test submissions that came through Omni. I think the ceiling became 190 S.D. 16 or a little over 5.6 sigma. The first time I took it, I got a 44, which was 23 verbal problems right and 1 wrong and 21 math right and 3 wrong. I took it a second time and got a 47, which was 1 math wrong, I think. It doesn’t matter whether math or verbal; I got 1 wrong the second time.

What does that translate into for me, after the fourth or fifth norming, my 44 wasn’t high enough to get me into Mega. Marilyn herself turned me down for admission. My score might have corresponded to 172. Then after the sixth norming, after all these scores came in, I think a 44 got you a 180. I think the Mega cutoff is a 176. There you go. The 1-in-a-million level. Next question.

Cole: Omni called it the “world’s hardest IQ test.”   Interpretation of scores can be found in Hoeflin’s normings.

Jacobsen: How does the internet complicate legitimate testing in the high-range?

May: The internet facilitates cheating on tests and meeting other cheaters to work with.

Rosner: The Mega came out in ’85. The Titan, the sequel to the Mega, came out in ’90. Most people got on the internet in the mid-to-late-‘90s. For those tests, it complicated and contaminated them because people went on message boards and threw answers around. Some of which were correct. That was problem one. Problem two was once Google came along; you could put in the words to the analogy and the fourth word would pop up. The analogies were half of the Titan and the Mega.

The 24 verbal problems were all analogies of the type “find the fourth word.” Most of those could be instantly solved using a decent search engine. Tests are different. The Cooijmans tests, which I consider the most challenging of the internet era tests can’t simply be solved by plugging things into a search engine. You still have to figure a lot of shit out. The most general issue with these tests and the internet is just sharing answers. Beyond that, it is a pain in the ass to make sure that the problems on the test can’t be solved through easy searches.

Chris (Cole) and his group of people, who are working on this test that are resistant to having answers shared, are working on tests that give each test-taker the same general problem, but the specifics of the problem are fresh. So, somebody else’s answer on this problem is not going to help you because, even though the problem should score the same – getting it right should reflect the same IQ level, you can’t just post what you got on answer 12. They’ve been working on that for well over a decade.

It’s coming along. Anyway, next question.

Cole: The Mega and Titan tests have been spoiled on the Web.  The Power and Ultra tests are at risk.

Jacobsen: Some, in fact more than a few, claim extrapolations well beyond the norms of the mainstream tests, e.g., the WAIS and the SB, which cap out at or around 4-sigma. Assuming legitimacy of the claims, then, the individuals would be highly intelligent, but the claims can range between a little over 4-sigma to 6-sigma. How is this extrapolation generally seen within the high-I.Q. communities at the higher ranges?

May: I don’t know how other others generally perceive unsound or bogus extrapolations of IQ scores.

Rosner: I think the skepticism of super-high scores is generally more for specific claims than for the entire idea of being able to have an IQ that high. I think most people in the high-IQ community believe it is possible to have an IQ close to 200. But I think most people also have a reasonable idea of the rarity of scores like that. Adult IQs, the deviation scores, are based on a bell curve, where between 0 and 1 standard deviation, you have 34% of the population in a bell-shaped distribution for something like height. Between 1 and 2 SDs, you’ve got 14% of the population. Between 2 and 3, you’ve got about 1.5% of the population. Between 3 and 4, you’ve got roughly one-half percent of the population.

Let’s see, about 4 SDs, that’s only one person in 30,000 should score above 4 SDs. One person in 3,000,000 above 5 SDs. What is it? 1 person in 750,000,000 above 6 SD or so; somewhere, I’ve fucked it up, according to the standard bell curve. People also like to say that at the very far ends; there are more outliers than on the normal bell curve. That there are more high-IQs than would be given if it were a perfectly bell-shaped distribution.

But even so, you shouldn’t see more than a half-dozen or ten or twelve or whatever, people, with scores above 6 SDs. So, Paul Cooijmans has the Giga Society, which has 7 or 8 members. It is for people with IQs that are supposed to be one in a billion. So, there are 8 billion people on Earth, 8 members of the Giga Society, so that makes a certain sense, but not really. That’s as if everybody who could score at that level has taken one of his tests. That’s just obviously not true. So, way too many people scoring at the one in a billion level. It’s not like the Giga Society has 300 members.

Cooijmans is pretty rigorous in his norming and testing. So, if you have taken a Cooijmans test and scored at or close to the Giga Society, legitimately, Cooijmans has written in the past about people’s attempts to cheat on his tests, but I don’t think there has been a successful attempt in decades. So, people are pretty accepting that if you get a Giga level score on his tests; that you’re legitimately pretty smart. The claims of super high-IQs, there are legit claims based on performing well on ultra-high IQ tests or kicking ass as a kid on a test like the Stanford-Binet or the Wechsler. Someone can say, “As a kid, I scored a 200,” or something.

That’s another thing I won’t go into. People who claim high-IQ scores and are lying are generally not sophisticatedly lying. They’re saying something that cannot hold up at all. I don’t know if there are many or any sophisticated lies about having a super-high-IQ. So, then there are people outside the high-IQ community who are skeptical about the whole thing, but no one is really worried a lot about it, because: who gives a shit?

Also, if you want to say something, or know something that I’m not aware of, that contradicts what I’m saying, go ahead.

Cole: Hoeflin’s norms all involve some extrapolation.  I find it reasonable up to the mega level (about 4.75 standard deviations).

Jacobsen: Following from the previous question, what seems like the motivation behind making claims well beyond the norms of the most used mainstream I.Q. tests?

May: It’s a shame Einstein did physics. He could have been on Facebook (now called Meta, I guess).

Rosner: Going off my own experience, I kind of felt like a loser based on when I was about 20. I’d fucked up a lot of opportunities for myself. Then somebody told me about the previous world’s hardest IQ test, which was a Kevin Langdon test. It ran in Omni or Games Magazine. I took it and scored 170. I went, ‘Wow, that’s a good score.’ When Mega came along, I took that. I liked that validation that it gave me. Even though, it is a ridiculous thing. I kind of feel like it might be analogous to a guy who can bench press 500 lbs.

It’s kind of a goofy thing. You wouldn’t tell that guy it is goofy to his face, but the Sven Magnason. He is 6’4” and weighs 310 lbs. and eats 200 grams of protein a day to get that or support that huge bench press and has hypertension and his joints will be fucked in 10 years. It’s a kind of a goofy thing. It is amazing the guy can bench 500 lbs. It is this ridiculous thing. It is a very obscure sport. Sven Magnason is not playing in the NFL for 1.8 million USD a year. He probably works in a warehouse and does strength training on the side.

It doesn’t translate into the kind of fame or success that you might want. So, it is a niche kind of sport.

Cole: Vanity is one motivation.

Jacobsen: What are some of the more egregious I.Q. claims in 20th century by groups and by individuals? This is a free forum.

May: In the 20th century — maybe being the smartest man in America was a fairly egregious claim. Top 1 per billion high-IQ societies may qualify if such came into existence in the 20th century.

Rosner: I don’t know. Anybody can go on the internet and type whatever they want. One of the craziest claims I saw I mentioned before. Somebody had a site or has a site claiming Jesus had an IQ of 300. The idea that somebody with the deep wisdom of Jesus meant Jesus had a huge IQ. His estimate based on nothing: If smartest people have an IQ of 200, then Jesus must have an IQ of 300. William Sidis, people claim 259 based on extreme achievements as a young person, at least it is based on his history and is a fairly earnest attempt to estimate a very smart young man’s IQ.

It is kind of egregious and not based on him being tested. Oh! Some of the most egregious are in the last 15 years; some insane moms, one mom out of Colorado, maybe 18 years ago, got a hold of the answer key to an earlier edition of the Stanford-Binet. Stanford-Binet gets revised every 15 or 20 years. I don’t know. You can still find psychologists who will give an earlier version. In the stacks of libraries. Probably, the Norlin Library at the University of Colorado, she found an earlier editions, found an answer key. Then taught her kid all the answers, so, that kid scored, at age 3 or 4, like a 10-year-old, which, the way they calculate childhood IQs, gave him an IQ well over 300. She tried to get herself and her kid famous off this.

It, eventually, fell apart because the kid did not have a 300 IQ. So, that is pretty egregious. But! Doable if you’re not an idiot about it, I believe. But anybody who would do it would be a kind of idiot. First of all, I don’t know. How much would a 4-year-old be into it? But if you took a 6-year-old and got a 6-year-old into it, “We’re going to ride this pony into a T.V. show, your acting career.” It has never happened, but it is not impossible. Because Alicia Witt was a child actor, an actor now. Great actor and great kid actor, one of the things that makes for a great kid actor is a 4-year-old who can read.

Because if you can give a 4-year-old – Alicia Witt could read at 3 – a script and the kid can read the script and memorize the script rather than having to be told shit line by line, and if the kid is smart enough to do that, then the kid is smart enough to take direction. Alicia Witt was at least a kid actor because she was super fucking smart. So, I’m thinking if you had a motivated 6-year-old and a creepy parent. I even started working on a screenplay on this or thought about it 30 years ago as a good plot. Like a lot of shit I do, I didn’t do anything with it, except the mom did it and a shitty job in real life.

The right combination of psychopathic parent and bright, motivated kid. That team could believably sustain the bullshit that that kid has an IQ of 300+ for quite a while. Although, nobody has done that. Yes, that would be egregious.

Cole: Before they were banned by Wikipedia, there were many articles by groups making incredible IQ claims.

Jacobsen: What seem like the big lessons in debunking phony I.Q. claims from the 20th century?

May: “The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.” — Richard P. Feynman

Rosner: [Laughing] A lot of stuff underlying a lot about high-IQ is “Why?” Why claim to have a high-IQ? Why work your ass off to get a super high score on these tests? Why sweat debunking it? In retrospect, you can see why you might want to hold people who might claim super-high-IQs up to scrutiny, at least given Raniere. The NXVIM sex cult, swindler of the Bronfman’s who is in prison for life now. One of the pillars of his duping people was using a high score on the Mega Test to claim to be one of the smartest people on Earth, though he didn’t really push it.

Because once he gathered enough acolytes, I don’t know enough about him to know how often he dragged out his IQ. But it seems that once he was surrounded by dozens of followers; that he didn’t need to do that. He could rely on his charisma and manipulation skills, and also being at the top of a pyramid of people with good manipulation skills. He was smart enough to recruit charismatic actors, TV stars. A couple actors from Smallville. People with actual show biz careers. One of his selling points and one of the selling points of Scientology can help you succeed professionally in shit where what it takes to succeed, like acting, can seem nebulous.

So, he didn’t need to haul out his IQ a lot because he was surrounded by TV stars who were helping him recruit other people into his cult. He, certainly, deserved a lot of scrutiny, perhaps a lot sooner than he got the scrutiny. There’s another guy who is pretty culty who has a bunch of acolytes who espoused a bunch of scary shit. So, that’s one reason to scrutinize claims of super-high-IQ because people can be up to no good, but those people are fairly rare. Of the 60, 80, 100, people who have qualified for the Mega Society over the past 40 years, 95 or more percent of them are completely normal, undangerous people.

The biggest danger might be that they might be really funny, like Richard May, is a completely decent guy who happens to be extra smart and extra funny. Super-high-IQ people mostly aren’t to be feared. What were we talking about? I always talk myself way away from the question. [Ed. Question repeated.]That, I guess, let the babies have their bottles for the most part, let high-IQ people be high-IQ people, it doesn’t hurt anyone, except for a few cases. Those involved in IQ fraud, the fraud is pretty transparent.

Most of the high-IQ lying is some desperate asshole who is 25 and going to undergraduate parties at his school. That guy finds a freshman girl and says, “Oh, people don’t understand me. I have a 205 IQ. I graduated high school at age 5.” It’s that abject bullshit. There are more sophisticated attempts, but not that much more. Because the payoffs are pretty low. Even lower than getting a hand job from a freshman girl, the end.

Cole: “It’s hard to be right.” — Richard Feynman

Footnotes

[1] Richard May (“May-Tzu”/“MayTzu”/“Mayzi”) is a Member of the Mega Society based on a qualifying score on the Mega Test (before 1995) prior to the compromise of the Mega Test and Co-Editor of Noesis: The Journal of the Mega Society. In self-description, May states: “Not even forgotten in the cosmic microwave background (CMB), I’m an Amish yuppie, born near the rarified regions of Laputa, then and often, above suburban Boston. I’ve done occasional consulting and frequent Sisyphean shlepping. Kafka and Munch have been my therapists and allies. Occasionally I’ve strived to descend from the mists to attain the mythic orientation known as having one’s feet upon the Earth. An ailurophile and a cerebrotonic ectomorph, I write for beings which do not, and never will, exist — writings for no one. I’ve been awarded an M.A. degree, mirabile dictu, in the humanities/philosophy, and U.S. patent for a board game of possible interest to extraterrestrials. I’m a member of the Mega Society, the Omega Society and formerly of Mensa. I’m the founder of the Exa Society, the transfinite Aleph-3 Society and of the renowned Laputans Manqué. I’m a biographee in Who’s Who in the Brane World. My interests include the realization of the idea of humans as incomplete beings with the capacity to complete their own evolution by effecting a change in their being and consciousness. In a moment of presence to myself in inner silence, when I see Richard May’s non-being, ‘I’ am. You can meet me if you go to an empty room.” Some other resources include Stains Upon the Silence: something for no oneMcGinnis Genealogy of Crown Point, New York: Hiram Porter McGinnisSwines ListSolipsist SoliloquiesBoard GameLulu blogMemoir of a Non-Irish Non-Jew, and May-Tzu’s posterous.

[2] According to some semi-reputable sources gathered in a listing hereRick G. Rosner may have among America’s, North America’s, and the world’s highest measured IQs at or above 190 (S.D. 15)/196 (S.D. 16) based on several high range test performances created by Christopher HardingJason BettsPaul Cooijmans, and Ronald Hoeflin. He earned 12 years of college credit in less than a year and graduated with the equivalent of 8 majors. He has received 8 Writers Guild Awards and Emmy nominations, and was titled 2013 North American Genius of the Year by The World Genius Directory with the main “Genius” listing here.

He has written for Remote ControlCrank YankersThe Man ShowThe EmmysThe Grammys, and Jimmy Kimmel Live!. He worked as a bouncer, a nude art model, a roller-skating waiter, and a stripper. In a television commercialDomino’s Pizza named him the “World’s Smartest Man.” The commercial was taken off the air after Subway sandwiches issued a cease-and-desist. He was named “Best Bouncer” in the Denver Area, Colorado, by Westwood Magazine.

Rosner spent much of the late Disco Era as an undercover high school student. In addition, he spent 25 years as a bar bouncer and American fake ID-catcher, and 25+ years as a stripper, and nearly 30 years as a writer for more than 2,500 hours of network television. Errol Morris featured Rosner in the interview series entitled First Person, where some of this history was covered by Morris. He came in second, or lost, on Jeopardy!, sued Who Wants to Be a Millionaire? over a flawed question and lost the lawsuit. He won one game and lost one game on Are You Smarter Than a Drunk Person? (He was drunk). Finally, he spent 37+ years working on a time-invariant variation of the Big Bang Theory.

Currently, Rosner sits tweeting in a bathrobe (winter) or a towel (summer). He lives in Los AngelesCalifornia with his wife, dog, and goldfish. He and his wife have a daughter. You can send him money or questions at LanceVersusRick@Gmail.Com, or a direct message via Twitter, or find him on LinkedIn, or see him on YouTube.

[3] Chris Cole is a longstanding member of the Mega Society.

[4] Individual Publication Date: April 1, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/debunking-2; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with David Miller on the Background, Life, and Views: Member, Glia Society (1)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/03/22

Abstract

David Miller is a Member of the Glia Society. He discusses: growing up; a sense of an extended self; the family background; the experience with peers and schoolmates; some professional certifications; the purpose of intelligence tests; high intelligence discovered; the extreme reactions to and treatment of geniuses; the greatest geniuses in history; a genius from a profoundly intelligent person; profound intelligence necessary for genius; work experiences and jobs; particular job path; the gifted and geniuses; God; science; the tests taken and scores earned (with standard deviations); the range of the scores; ethical philosophy; social philosophy; economic philosophy; political philosophy; metaphysics; philosophical system; meaning in life; meaning externally derived, or internally generated; an afterlife; the mystery and transience of life; and love.

Keywords: Catholicism, David Miller, German, God, Italian, Glia Society, I.Q., intelligence, mathematics, Newton, non-religion, United States.

Conversation with David Miller on the Background, Life, and Views: Member, Glia Society (1)

*Please see the references, footnotes, and citations, after the interview, respectively.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: When you were growing up, what were some of the prominent family stories being told over time?

David Miller[1],[2]*: Both of my parents are immigrants so there were some stories about their lives before immigration. No story was very prominent though; just memories from childhood regarding different foods they would eat and playing in the woods and such.

Jacobsen: Have these stories helped provide a sense of an extended self or a sense of the family legacy?

Miller: No; that has never been important in my family.

Jacobsen: What was the family background, e.g., geography, culture, language, and religion or lack thereof?

Miller: My mother is German and Italian and my father is Scottish but we are all Americanized and grew up without our parents bringing their home cultures into our childhood. My two brothers and I all grew up on the East coast of the United States and learned only English. As for religion, we were all raised Catholic but only one brother remained Catholic into adulthood.

Jacobsen: How was the experience with peers and schoolmates as a child and an adolescent?

Miller: The overall experience was good I would say. In grade school, ages 6 through 11, there was some bullying but nothing too serious. I mostly stuck to my books and had one good friend who I spent much of my time with. We would play almost every day after school and talk about different books we were reading. In junior high and high school, ages 12 through 18, I had a small group of friends whom I could trust entirely. We would talk about normal teenage boy things such as school, girls, our families, and hobbies.Outside of my friends group I was mostly invisible to the other students at school, which I preferred.

Jacobsen: What have been some professional certifications, qualifications, and trainings earned by you?

Miller: I have a Bachelor of Science degree in civil engineering as well as a Microsoft Excel certification. Excel is fantastic, by the way. Too few people see all the potential it has. I have it open at this very moment!

Jacobsen: What is the purpose of intelligence tests to you?

Miller: I think intelligence tests are hugely important and that intelligence is an interesting field of study. The purpose for serious psychometricians is of course to accurately measure intelligence in whatever range is interesting to them. Most mainstream psychologists apparently design I.Q. tests with the low-mid range in mind to detect mental retardation and assist in diagnosing various psychiatric disorders. There are many non-mainstream high-range I.Q. test constructors too but almost none of them should be taken seriously. It’s obvious many of them don’t know the first thing about statistics, they are lacking in what they are attempting to measure, and they are too emotional and subjective when grading test answers.

That is not to say that all high-range I.Q. tests shouldn’t be taken seriously though. Paul Cooijmans, the world leader in high-range I.Q. testing, has the most accurate I.Q. tests ever designed for the range he is attempting to measure. To be clear, that is not an opinion but an objective fact based on his test’s statistics. As for my personal motivation in taking these tests — it is just for the satisfaction of solving very hard problems. If that helps with studying intelligence then that is a great bonus.

Jacobsen: When was high intelligence discovered for you?

Miller: There were hints at that starting from when I was a toddler but it wasn’t until I was 7 that my teacher sat my parents down and told them I was “gifted”. Earlier that week in class the teacher was showing us basic arithmetic and I was doing it in my head faster than the teacher could do it with her calculator. To clarify, these were easy problems such as 14*5 or 28:4. When we learned fractions and percentages I would do those in my head too and my teacher and classmates thought it was amazing, not realizing that it was no harder than any other kind of basic multiplication.

So that you can amaze your friends and colleagues too: If you’re ever asked a problem like “what is 15% of 74?” just move the decimal point, get the product, then move the decimal point back afterward to get your answer. In this case 0.15 * 74 becomes 15 * 74 which can be done in your head to get 1110. After moving the decimal point back two places we get the answer: 11.10.

As for discovering very high intelligence, I took an I.Q. test in high school and got a “beyond ceiling” score but did not know what that meant at the time. Later for work an employer had every applicant take an I.Q. test and again I had every answer right. Decades later in late 2021 my son discovered Paul Cooijmans’ website on a forum called Reddit which resulted in me trying my first high-range I.Q. test the following month.

Jacobsen: When you think of the ways in which the geniuses of the past have either been mocked, vilified, and condemned if not killed, or praised, flattered, platformed, and revered, what seems like the reason for the extreme reactions to and treatment of geniuses? Many alive today seem camera shy – many, not all.

Miller: Ha, the reason for this is actually so sad it’s almost funny. The average person has no ability to grasp, understand, appreciate the work of a genius. Even in art or music they cannot possibly see the meaning behind any of it. The reason a few geniuses are praised is because some “experts” who are barely able to understand their work praise them, and the masses believe whatever experts say. If consensus among experts was that Albert Einstein was retarded then most people would believe that too.

Unfortunately, experts often don’t understand the genius and when that happens the genius is mocked or ignored until someone with authority finally does understand them. This usually happens decades or centuries after their death so they are basically screwed and at the mercy of people who are too stupid to understand them.

Jacobsen: Who seems like the greatest geniuses in history to you?

Miller: Newton, Tesla, Imhotep, and Archimedes come to mind. There is also someone I recently learned about that is very well-known for his work in psychometrics but my crystal ball says his contributions to music theory will be what make him a household name initially.

Jacobsen: What differentiates a genius from a profoundly intelligent person?

Miller: A genius must be intelligent /and/ have a high degree of persistence and obsessiveness combined with resistance to mainstream thinking. More on that last point; when someone accepts everything they are told by authority figures they are doomed to always have many false beliefs and are unable to produce original work.

Jacobsen: Is profound intelligence necessary for genius?

Miller: Yes, if by profound you mean about three standard deviations above the mean. Actually, most geniuses probably aren’t much smarter than that either. I’d guess the average genius, even Newton, had an I.Q. between three and four standard deviations above the mean.

Jacobsen: What have been some work experiences and jobs held by you?

Miller: I worked briefly as a civil engineer but thought it was very unrewarding so found work as a data analyst and have done that ever since.

Jacobsen: Why pursue this particular job path?

Miller: I’m good at math and prefer to do things which I’m good at. = )

Jacobsen: What are some of the more important aspects of the idea of the gifted and geniuses? Those myths that pervade the cultures of the world. What are those myths? What truths dispel them?

Miller: Something very important regarding gifted people and geniuses is that we need more resources put into discovering them and finding ways to help them achieve their potential. It makes no sense for the very brilliant children to study in the same classroom as the normal children. We put a lot of resources into helping intellectually disabled children and I think those efforts are catastrophically misplaced. Maybe that seems unempathetic but imagine how much worse it is for the brilliant child to be left behind compared to the retarded child? It makes me shudder.

Also, almost every mainstream belief about intelligence and genius seems wrong. Some truths are that intelligence is about 80-90% genetic, cannot be trained (but can be lowered), and is highly correlated with success and happiness.

Jacobsen: Any thoughts on the God concept or gods idea and philosophy, theology, and religion?

Miller: Yes; I do not believe in God and am not religious.

Jacobsen: How much does science play into the worldview for you?

Miller: Science is very important to me. When it’s good science; that is, not warped for political or personal reasons by the researcher, I will incorporate that information into my worldview.

Jacobsen: What have been some of the tests taken and scores earned (with standard deviations) for you?

Miller: In high school I took an I.Q. test and scored 150+ (16 S.D.) but do not know which one. Later, for a job application I took what I think was a shortened form of Raven’s Matrices and got everything right. From January 2022 onward I’ve been taking high-range I.Q. tests by Paul Cooijmans and have most of my scores around 167 +/- 10 (15 S.D.). My highest scores are on Narcissus’ Last Stand with I.Q. 180 (44 raw) and Divine Psychometry with I.Q. 177 (30 raw). My first high-range test was The Sargasso Test where I scored 161 (42 raw).

Jacobsen: What ethical philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Miller: I think ethics are absolute, universal, objective, and black-and-white. When someone says that ethics are relative, subjective, or that “everybody is right in their own way” please slap them (legal disclaimer: I’m kidding).

As for philosophers, I like Kant.

Jacobsen: What social philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Miller: The golden rule: “do unto others what you’d have them do unto you.” Many people misunderstand the golden rule and don’t realize it is most applicable when talking about social behavior in general. If you want others to help you when you are unwell then you should help them when possible. That is outside of ethics, by the way. There’s nothing unethical about not helping others; it’s only unethical to be the one intentionally hurting them.

Also, a general remark on socializing is that people should strive to be more introverted. I find people who have many friends and talk a lot tend to have nothing of substance to say and that those with few friends who rarely talk tend to have the most interesting things on their mind.

Jacobsen: What political philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Miller: My advice for people who want to know the answer to this question is to study world history and pay very careful attention to Greece, China, Egypt, and Rome. I can say no more than that.

Jacobsen: What metaphysics makes some sense to you, even the most workable sense to you?

Miller: I cannot say for reasons I cannot say.

Jacobsen: What worldview-encompassing philosophical system makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Miller: To achieve mastery in whatever one is naturally good at and to not waste time with things like hedonism. One only has this life, why waste it never reaching one’s potential? If one is not talented at anything then they would probably make a good school teacher I think.

Jacobsen: What provides meaning in life for you?

Miller: My wife and son; they are the most meaningful things in my life.

Jacobsen: Is meaning externally derived, internally generated, both, or something else?

Miller: Everything has a function and in nearly all cases they have no control over it. For humans we can derive some personal meaning in our lives but there is also an inescapable function we each serve in addition to that.

Jacobsen: Do you believe in an afterlife? If so, why, and what form? If not, why not?

Miller: Nope; nothing after death. It’s sad that everybody around me will eventually die and then no longer exist. I cannot die myself though.

Jacobsen: What do you make of the mystery and transience of life?

Miller: The ultimate function of all life is to achieve the highest level of awareness possible.

Jacobsen: What is love to you?

Miller: My feeling is that romantic love is when one cares for another so deeply that they put their own happiness second to their lover’s and their lover does the same. Platonic love is less intense and doesn’t require reciprocity.

Footnotes

[1] Member, Glia Society.

[2] Individual Publication Date: March 22, 2022: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/miller-1; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Scott Durgin on Life, Work, and Views: Member, Giga Society (1)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/03/08

Abstract

Scott Durgin is a Member of the Giga Society. He discusses: growing up; a sense of an extended self; the family background; the experience with peers and schoolmates; some professional certifications; the purpose of intelligence tests; high intelligence discovered; the extreme reactions to and treatment of geniuses; the greatest geniuses in history; a genius from a profoundly intelligent person; profound intelligence necessary for genius; work experiences and jobs; particular job path; the gifted and geniuses; God; science; the tests taken and scores earned (with standard deviations); the range of the scores; ethical philosophy; social philosophy; economic philosophy; political philosophy; metaphysics; philosophical system; meaning in life; meaning externally derived, or internally generated; an afterlife; the mystery and transience of life; and love.

Keywords: Giga Society, life, Scott Durgin, views, work.

Conversation with Scott Durgin on Life, Work, and Views: Member, Giga Society (1)

*Please see the references, footnotes, and citations, after the interview, respectively.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: When you were growing up, what were some of the prominent family stories being told over time?

Scott Durgin[1],[2]*: Grandma telling of her ancestors being Hugenots. Her son, my father being born late and during a flood, my mother being thrown from a car days before Kennedy was shot, my ancestors active in the revolutionary war, my mother’s father emigrating from Ireland, he could play the fiddle by ear; my dad’s musical inclination and woodworking skills, marksman in the army, ranger in the forest, a few others I can’t recall.

Jacobsen: Have these stories helped provide a sense of an extended self or a sense of the family legacy?

Durgin: Somewhat. Later in life I was able to track my family history through William Brewster and two other pilgrims. Later still, I was able to trace it back further to Fulk V of Jerusalem. Self extension is a critical notion I’m glad you brought that up, as it has great potential for growth, there are many applications of it.  A sense of history is important for future conceptualizations and decision making, so my adult life has been dedicated to satisfying a voracious appetite for studying history.

Jacobsen: What was the family background, e.g., geography, culture, language, and religion or lack thereof?

Durgin: European blend, all English speaking by the 18th century, all Christian (and anti-authoritarian so not many Catholics). Mostly settled in New England by late 1600s. Originated from U.K., France and Germany.

Jacobsen: How was the experience with peers and schoolmates as a child and an adolescent?

Durgin: I was observant but largely socially inept until high school, except for sports. Lots of exploration, digging, sports, outdoor activities, music; voracious appetite for reading started in 7th grade, mostly science fiction Ray Bradbury, Arthur Clarke, Asimov, Heinlein. One or two close friends every few years or so, then drifted away.

Jacobsen: What have been some professional certifications, qualifications, and trainings earned by you? 

Durgin: IEEE, SBE, ASME, Pi-Mu-Epsilon, AA in General Studies, BS in Engineering Physics.

Jacobsen: What is the purpose of intelligence tests to you?

Durgin: Enjoyment in solving problems. Life is a puzzle, so it’s practice too.

Jacobsen: When was high intelligence discovered for you?

Durgin: It was a slow work in progress. By the time I was 25 to 30 years old I began seeking out extraordinarily difficult puzzles because I had been doing so without help for decades prior: Rubiks cube, “The square root”, which is a sliding wooden pieces type of puzzle, mazes, optical illusions, creating my own labyrinths, mastering chess, stratego and other board games. I appear to be the only one I knew (among maybe 2 dozen others or so) who actually solved the Rubiks cube and rubiks revenge without the book. Same thing with the square root. Later on I put together the jigsaw puzzle known as Devils Dilemma which has identical images on both sides but one side is rotated 90° relative to the other, and the puzzle pieces are actually “double died” so you can’t tell by flatness which way the pieces should go. Insane exercise looking back. When I was in my late teens I invented a variation of chess that involved two moves for each person (with certain exceptions of course; certain new rules had to be invented to keep everything sane). It was a great mental exercise but it also hurt my brain. Probably the first time I realized I had an abnormal intelligence started in fourth or fifth grade when I was fairly adept in math and could also recite the alphabet backwards could read upside down, find the Dalmatian among the chaos of black and white spots, things like that. – Finding the pattern within the sea of randomness was important to me early. It was only after a decade or so after that I began to use rational thinking and scientific methods to check whether those patterns were meaningful. Painful process actually.

Jacobsen: When you think of the ways in which the geniuses of the past have either been mocked, vilified, and condemned if not killed, or praised, flattered, platformed, and revered, what seems like the reason for the extreme reactions to and treatment of geniuses? Many alive today seem camera shy – many, not all.

Durgin: Discomfort is the answer. It seems that most geniuses or exceptionally creative people tend to be (at least partially) introverted, meaning they do not require others, or interaction with others but are rather comfortable with solitude. I believe this grates against the weaknesses of the extroverts because they do require human interaction every day, which means they manipulate others into getting energy from them. Introverts do not intrude. Introverts retrieve energy from within. They do not require recognition. People who are comfortable with solitude do not require acceptance in a group and this makes weak people nervous and uncomfortable. One who is comfortable with darkness and solitude can navigate the greatest fears and overcome them.

Jacobsen: Who seems like the greatest geniuses in history to you?

Durgin: Plato, Euclid, Vitruvius, Confucius, Hypatia, Proclus, Roger Bacon, Al-Hazen, Dante, Those who composed the Zohar, those who composed the Hermetic philosophy, John Dee, Leonardo, Mozart, Newton, Maxwell, Goethe, Gödel, Einstein, Emmy Noether, Dirac, Feynman. My favorites in there are probably Vitruvius, Al-Hazen, Mozart, Maxwell, Feynman and daVinci.

Jacobsen: What differentiates a genius from a profoundly intelligent person?

Durgin: Humor, no question. Music too. Film art like South Park, Archer, Veep, Patriot. Those are genius. Watch all the Batman films in order then watch LEGO Batman. That is genius.

Jacobsen: Is profound intelligence necessary for genius?

Durgin: No.

Jacobsen: What have been some work experiences and jobs held by you?

Durgin: Grave digger, Bank proof operator, Security guard, RF Engineer, Physics Teacher, Marketing & Sales Manager, Engineering Manager, Business Manager, Engineering Consultant, Founder and President.

Jacobsen: Why pursue this particular job path?

Durgin: I like a challenge, because puzzle solving is enjoyable and I want to enjoy life, career included. Engineering is by definition problem-solving at the real world level. I eventually settled on RF & Microwave Engineering because it is THE challenging and multidisciplinary activity, especially when one works with high power (multi-kilowatts) and further advances beyond Engineering to Design Engineering. One must be expert as a Thermal Engineer, Mechanical Engineer and Electrical Engineer (a fusion of all three) to accomplish this and solve real world problems in Communications. To top off the “discipline tower”, one must additionally master the physics of waves, which most EEs do not, because the difficult mathematics of waves involves partial differential equations in space and time. Hello Maxwell. Physics supplies the ultimate backdrop. Optics a good subset. Ph.D. highly recommended. Negotiating contracts, working with and managing others and communicating critical information through language barriers also requires an education in the liberal arts.

Jacobsen: What are some of the more important aspects of the idea of the gifted and geniuses? Those myths that pervade the cultures of the world. What are those myths? What truths dispel them?

Durgin: The good and long lasting myths are deep because they are masking truths otherwise not understandable without knowing physics and mathematics. So myths and symbols are extraordinarily important to carry on knowledge even if that knowledge is not understood by the great majority of people. Even if all civilization is destroyed except for a few (where those few are most likely to be uneducated), if the myths are remembered then eventually an intelligent individual will be able to decode the symbols and unpack the physics buried within them.—–Regarding genius, I don’t know. But two words come to mind besides Humor: Polymath and Paradox. Some of the more profound mysteries of the world have been solved by thoroughly investigating a paradox. But I do know that genius is not necessary if you work every part of your brain as much as you work the rest of your body. Take care of your brain. The brain needs a workout just like the body does. Things that harm the brain or suppress brain development are not good: drugs alcohol etc. Sex is also good for the brain. Ecstasy, Exhilaration and Enthusiasm all beneficial.

Jacobsen: Any thoughts on the God concept or gods idea and philosophy, theology, and religion?

Durgin: Mankind creates God, indubitably. Our perception of God’s perfection, capabilities and other attributes/aspects improve with our own improvement in knowledge, until eventually God is irrelevant or gone. Excellent symbol for God is the all seeing eye within a triangle, which is normally shown elevated above an unfinished pyramid. There are very profound reasons for this arrangement. But I will only focus on one: Insight requires a great amount of prior physical and mental activity, then a period of rest like Helmholtz described. The reason the triangle is above the pyramid (itself symbolizing a great labor) is the insight appears to come from nowhere, when in fact it does not. It comes from the brain – but only after rest. In this way, self generated insight can serve as a symbol for an improved version of yourself, or your future self, or your perfect self or God.

Jacobsen: How much does science play into the worldview for you?

Durgin: Science is the true and final method of finding things out; finding THE truth. What seems to be a great way to start that process is exploration and wild speculation, but coupled with and grounded by an education in Science (the hard ones). This also means entertaining and following imaginative leaps, flights of fancy that appear at first to go nowhere, but actually do open the door (or lead down blind alleyways where a hidden door may be) to answers from a sideways path. Balancing the irrational with rational thoughts, feelings and notions seems like the best scientific path, for it is only after subduing the irrational that it truly can be categorized as irrational. In Art, One must explore all paths first to eventually know how to place the ground where it belongs and the figure where it belongs. It’s the same with science; slow but sure. And – most critical is learning to distinguish between evidence and other information; between something physiological and something psychological. Science is EVIDENCE based, or nothing.

Jacobsen: What have been some of the tests taken and scores earned (with standard deviations) for you?

Durgin: I don’t keep very good track of that but most of my IQ scores on tests taken in the late 90s and 2000s range between 140 to 170 with an SD of 15. The tests I truly enjoyed were those by Cooijmans and Hoeflin and a few others but I can’t remember. Two memorable occasions I can think of now are an IQ test and an entry-test to University. Both of these tests were 20 questions. The university test was taken by a few hundred others over a few years to see whether candidates would be suitable for a five-six year very intensive dual degree program in engineering and physics; so one would receive a BS in both. Apparently only two received a perfect score, I was one of them, so I entered the Program.

Jacobsen: What ethical philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Durgin: FREEDOM, period. The only freedoms forbidden are those that remove freedoms from others; so again, balance.

Jacobsen: What social philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Durgin: See last question.

Jacobsen: What political philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you? 

Durgin: See last question, although I would add that a people-owned government is the ideal, with the rules of engagement duly constituted in a document which serves as the law, with a strict separation of church and state, meaning any and all government bodies are perforce religiously neutral. Three reasons for these:  1. A constitution cannot be assassinated, replaced or overturned without great effort and time, so authoritarian regimes are illegitimate. Who is president does not matter because the president’s first job is to protect the Constitution. 2. When the government, sworn FIRST AND FOREMOST to protect the constitution, is owned by the people (ALL the people not just some), then freedom has the best chance AND 3. When institutions like Science, Health, Education etc are owned by the entire public, those institutions are NOT subject to religious influence. How? Because of church-state separation. Allowing religion to be individually based and private is the only way to protect it. So a summary: Freedom is mandatory for individuals but not government. And no royalty, no bloodlines, no authoritarians. Those things have become stupefyingly nonsensical and irrelevant in today’s world. And there is no such thing as religious authority. Nope, Never again. Lincoln was right: By the people, Of the people, For the people (BOF). We all need to be BOF-ed.

Jacobsen: What metaphysics makes some sense to you, even the most workable sense to you?

Durgin: The mystical tradition of Kabbala is actually the most workable, because it is not mystical at its bottom. It’s psychological. A great deal of study reveals this, especially the geometry of it. Knowledge of Hebrew required. Knowledge of Ancient Egyptian required. Buddhism and ancient Druidism are also favorites. Study of Carl Jung helps: Mysterium Coniunctionis, Psychology and Alchemy two excellent examples.

Jacobsen: What worldview-encompassing philosophical system makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Durgin: Physics. Physics covers many planes or correspondence: vibration, polarity, rhythm cause-and-effect and gender. The Universe is ONE THING. All other things follow from this, the most obvious being that all entities are related to one another, like all spokes are connected to a central hub. The simple wisdom expounded in The Kybalion, though dated, is apt here. If the concept of God seems comforting to people then I would maintain that FIELD comes as close as possible to fulfilling that concept. Einstein stated it tersely: “There is no space empty of field”, which is consistent with Descartes. That does not mean that empty space is summarily filled with field, but rather the field….is….space. There is no such thing as empty space. Ever. If all the fields were removed there would be no space left. A rigorous and long term study of General Relativity will convince those who seek to understand this fully. Gravitation Electrodynamics, Light etc. That means 5-6 mathematical steps above calculus are necessary: partial differentials and 2nd rank tensors and higher. Expect despair, pain and mental contortions.

Jacobsen: What provides meaning in life for you?

Durgin: Purpose and growth. Growth Cleaves Stone.

Jacobsen: Is meaning externally derived, internally generated, both, or something else?

Durgin: Subjective.

Jacobsen: Do you believe in an afterlife? If so, why, and what form? If not, why not?

Durgin: Based on evidence so far, a physical afterlife (albeit transformed) seems obvious, but not a mental or psychological one. Will power has no power or life without a brain. You can’t even think about it without your brain. Memory is possibly transferred as a record could otherwise be, but this must be partial at best.

Jacobsen: What do you make of the mystery and transience of life?

Durgin: Life is wonderful. Enantiodromia provides a great path to transformation. My probable future has unfolded many times due to my own efforts. Resonance is possible at every level if one makes the effort. Every breathing second is meant to be purposeful, enjoyed and explored. This I do.

Jacobsen: What is love to you?

Durgin: Passion, Purpose, Obsession, Balance and Generosity.

Footnotes

[1] Member, Giga Society.

[2] Individual Publication Date: March 8, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/durgin-1; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2022: https://in-sightpublishing.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Paul Cooijmans on the Constitution of the Glia Society: Administrator, Glia Society (9)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/03/15

Abstract

Paul Cooijmans is an Independent Psychometitor and Administrator of the Glia Society, and Administrator of the Giga Society. He discusses: correspondence; introduction to the constitution of the Glia Society; provision of a forum for intelligent persons; the study of high intelligence; Section III Structure of the Glia Society constitution; Section IV Offices of the constitution; tests to candidates; the archives of the Administrator of the Glia Society; members; delegated tasks; offices have been created by the Administrator; Section V Admission; the world population; unsupervised untimed tests; supervised timed group tests; unsupervised tests prohibiting reference aids, unsupervised timed, and self-scored tests; most mainstream tests; the difficulty in discernment of intelligence level; Section VI Finance; Section VII Journal; the society’s admission tests in Thoth; verbatim publication; Section IIX Members; fraudulent scores; wrongly communicating, publishing, or spreading, answers; leaking member communication to non-members; admitting non-members to members’ communication for a; extreme rudeness, harassment, insults, lies, misrepresentation of another member’s character, and similar (mis-)behaviour; the highest number of offences by a single individual; highly unethical, including criminal, behaviour; an intelligence below the level of the Glia Society; revisions; the motivation for the ongoing administration of the Glia Society; the major lessons in administration of the Glia Society; and final thoughts.

Keywords: constitution, Glia Society, I.Q., I.Q. tests, intelligence, Paul Cooijmans.

Conversation with Paul Cooijmans on the Constitution of the Glia Society: Administrator, Glia Society (9)

*Please see the references, footnotes, and citations, after the interview, respectively.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: You provide contact information to interested parties:

Paul Cooijmans

De Wolwever 39

5737 AD LIESHOUT

THE NETHERLANDS (Cooijmans, n.d.a)

The email is administrator@gliasociety.org. To act as a small quality control to individuals who read this part of the interview on the Glia Society, and who want to send materials to you, what should individuals who hope to send correspondence bear in mind?

Paul Cooijmans[1],[2]*: With regard to Glia Society admission, one should keep in mind that the admission criteria as published online are complete, and that not understanding those – that is, applying without qualifying scores – is not compatible with the required intelligence level and naturally disqualifies the applicant. One should also distinguish an application from an assessment procedure as described on the web location. One can not do both at once!

I would like to utilize this opportunity to express thorough frustration as to the following recurring conversation:

Correspondent: Is the X test accepted for admission to the Glia Society?

Administrator: The list of accepted tests is online and complete, as so clearly stated there.

Correspondent: Yes, but the X test is not on it, hence my question.

Administrator: ????!!!!

I trust every logical thinker will agree that such a correspondent appears not to be at the required intelligence level.

Regarding myself and correspondence, I tend not to respond to anonymous or pseudonymous messages, or to insults and threats. I also prefer to ignore mass mailings that include me without my prior consent. That reminds me of a person who contacted me regarding admission to “your society”, but, after some writing up and down, turned out to have no clue to which society she was applying and what the membership requirement was! She had sent an application to many societies at once, using the blind carbon copy field. When I referred her to the list of accepted tests online (without specifying a society name or uniform resource locator) she had no idea which web site or society it concerned and became furious, apparently for having been caught red-handed doing a mass application, and began to lecture me about kindness and compassion. But that is not how you apply to an I.Q. society, sorry.

Jacobsen: The introduction to the constitution of the Glia Society states, “This document should be seen not as a formal law imposed upon the society, but as describing the actual state of affairs as it has come to be. It is an ongoing process, an attempt to formulate how an I.Q. society is run.” (Cooijmans, n.d.b) What have been the hardest lessons in the construction of the constitution? Those items needing stipulation due to the actual state of affairs of a high-I.Q. society.

Cooijmans: The first thing that occurs to me is that the goal “Provide ways of self-improvement for intelligent individuals, for instance in fields like study, health, and work” is exceptionally hard to meet. Some members may have improved themselves thanks to their own efforts, but to actually provide to others ways of self-improvement that work is so hard that, after decades, I still dare not guarantee that the Glia Society is doing that.

If I consider my own case, the main things that have worked to improve me are (1) running, (2) joining I.Q. societies.

Items that needed stipulation due to the actual state of affairs: The “Other offices” were added because they actually occurred. The remark on children having to qualify by adult norms was added because of questions as to whether childhood age-based scores were accepted. The remark about the pass level occurring at about one in three among high-range scores was added after this had been so reliably for many years (do note that this is not how the requirement is specified; it is just how it happens to be). The remark about admission tests needing to have at least two different item types came after observing that one-sided tests did not tend to produce qualified members. The assessment procedure is mentioned because it had been conceived and useful. The varying size of the journal is a fact that occurred in reality. The stipulated tearing to pieces of failing candidates by a monster that is a mixture of a crocodile, a lion, and a hippopotamus is a not infrequent state of affairs. The grounds for expulsion have mostly occurred in reality.

Jacobsen: The Glia Society name origin has been described before and the description is provided in the constitution, too. Section II Goals of the constitution states:

II Goals

Provide a forum between intelligent individuals;

Do, encourage, and support work and study related to high intelligence;

Provide ways of self-improvement for intelligent individuals, for instance in fields like study, health, and work. (Ibid.)

Has the Glia Society succeeded in provision of a forum for intelligent persons, as the Administrator?

Cooijmans: Yes, for some of the members that seems to have succeeded. It is an ongoing process.

Jacobsen: Has the participation of individuals in the Glia Society assisted in the study of high intelligence and helped individuals self-improve?

Cooijmans: Yes, it has certainly helped the study of high intelligence. I do not know if it has helped individuals self-improve. Maybe a few. I am always hesitant to make such claims; only the person in question can tell. I tend not to trust people like gurus, therapists, or philanthropists who claim to be helping people. Such strikes me as self-gratifying and narcissist.

Jacobsen: Section III Structure of the Glia Society constitution stipulates official tasks are conducted by the Administrator. A successor would be a member of the Glia Society, appointed after the Administrator retires. Why the emphasis on optimization over democratization of the process?

Cooijmans: To protect the original goals of the Glia Society as stated before by me in this interview. Democratization can be dangerous as it opens the door to hostile takeovers.

Jacobsen: Section IV Offices of the constitution states:

IV Offices

Administrator

Selects admission tests and sets pass levels;

Informs candidates on society and requirements;

Administers tests to candidates without qualifying scores;

Admits qualifiers and registers personalia;

Keeps archives;

Produces and publishes (among members) a journal;

Maintains the society’s web sites;

Delegates any of these tasks to members of sufficient ability when possible and appropriate;

Revises the constitution when needed.

Other offices

Members may hold offices related to any tasks that need to be performed; for instance, administrator of a forum, journal editor, or forum inspector (verifying that the society’s members-only fora indeed house only members). Officers must perform their tasks with dedication, meticulousness, and persistence, which are rare qualities. Officers must be selected with care, as laxity in officers does much damage to a society. (Ibid.)

What is some other information important for society candidates outside of the frequently asked questions for the Glia Society?

Cooijmans: The membership is surprisingly diverse, also in terms of opinions. I see this as a result of a strict admission policy and freedom of speech.

Jacobsen: How do you administer tests to candidates to the Glia Society?

Cooijmans: Through electronic mail and the Internet. In the past I had a few supervised tests that could be taken by visiting me, but almost no one ever did so I ended them. If a test is taken so extremely rarely, it is problematic to maintain it and keep consistency between the far-between test administrations. You have long forgotten how to administer the test by the time the next candidate comes along.

Jacobsen: What is in the archives of the Administrator of the Glia Society now?

Cooijmans: The paper originals of the Thoth issues from the period when there was a paper version. For clarity, these are A4 sheets with two pages per sheet, such that for instance pages 32 and 1 are on one sheet, pages 2 and 31 on the next, and so on. There are a few copies left a of small number of issues. And the electronic archives contain the digital Thoth issues in editable form (so not necessarily in portable document format, which is the read-only format to which it is exported at the very end of the production process) and the member database.

Jacobsen: How many members have been delegated tasks?

Cooijmans: One does not count such things. Probably in the order of ten to twenty.

Jacobsen: How many offices have been created by the Administrator? What ones?

Cooijmans: One does not count such things, one just does them as needed. Forum moderator or administrator, forum inspector, editor of Thoth, ombudsman, prince of peace. Most of those have been fulfilled by more than one person each.

Jacobsen: Section V Admission states:

V Admission

The ideal requirement is to be at or above the level of one in a thousand of the adult population in g (at the high end, that is). This implies that both adults and children are admitted if they qualify; if they score “one in a thousand” by adult (not childhood or otherwise age-based) norms. Acceptable for admission are tests with sufficient degrees of the following:

Robustness;

Hardness — which places the other five statistics in the relevant range (that is, around the 999th millile);

Validity;

Reliability;

Resolution;

Quality of norms.

Formal criteria for these five independent statistics have not yet been composed.

In the light of the differences in average I.Q. across the nations of the world it is needed to specify the “population” meant above; to remain consistent with the actual admission levels of higher-I.Q. societies of the last several decades of the twentieth century, one must realize it is the population of the developed, Western countries that is relevant. Considering the lower average I.Q.’s in many other countries, this “one in a thousand” is probably around 1 in 30 000 of the world population.

Another way to indicate where the actual admission level lies is to give its position among high-range test candidates, which, according to the Administrator’s most recent data, is about the 667th millile; in other words, the level of one in three.

General guidelines for selecting admission tests

Suitable for admission

Unsupervised untimed tests allowing reference aids;

Supervised individual tests;

Supervised group tests.

Avoided where possible

Supervised timed group tests highly loaded on “speed”, even if administered individually.

Such tests have no validity whatsoever in the high range.

Avoided at all times

Unsupervised tests prohibiting reference aids;

Unsupervised timed tests;

Self-scored tests.

On such tests it is extremely easy to cheat.

Specific high-range tests are the principal tools for member selection. Regular tests used by mainstream psychology are avoided as they mostly lack items that discriminate at high levels and therefore have no validity — that is, no g loading — in the relevant range.

Admission tests should contain at least two different item types (out of verbal, numerical, spatial, logical). Tests containing one item type may be used in combination; the pass level must then be met on at least two different such tests.

Assessment procedure

Given the large and increasing number of tests claiming to measure in the high range, it has become impossible to determine for each test individually whether it is suitable for admission. An assessment procedure that considers the quality of a candidate’s (work, creative) output, whether or not in combination with one or more test scores, is also acceptable to determine if the candidate meets the society’s requirement. (Ibid.)

You have articles describing some of the core mentioned terms, e.g., quality of norms, robustness, reliability, resolution, and validity (Cooijmans, 2008; Cooijmans, n.d.c; Cooijmans, n.d.d; Cooijmans, n.d.e). Why haven’t formal criteria been developed “for these five independent statistics” (Cooijmans, n.d.b)?

Cooijmans: These statistics are partly experimental, and the experiment has not yet advanced to the stage that formal criteria could be based on them.

Jacobsen: How does the 1-in-a-1,000 become 1-in-30,000 when considering the world population?

Cooijmans: Because intelligence is not the same everywhere, and the 1 in 1000 is based on the situation in Western countries where the average I.Q. is around 100. Considering the national average I.Q.’s worldwide as published by Lynn and Vanhanen, the average I.Q. in the world (expressed on a scale where the British average at the time of their first study is set to 100) is about 90 (when weighted by national population sizes) or about 83 (unweighted). So the level of 1 in 1000 by Western norms will be more rare worldwide, probably closer to 4 world standard deviations above the mean than to 3 world standard deviations above the mean (this is complicated somewhat by the fact that the world standard deviation may be a bit larger than the defined 15 points of the I.Q. scale on which the British average is 100, because when you merge groups the combined standard deviation tends to be larger than those of the constituent groups).

It has repeatedly surprised me that so many people find this hard to understand. “But I thought the average I.Q. was always 100?!” is a sometimes heard remark. But of course if you want to compare I.Q.’s of different countries, you do not norm the scale separately for each country, because then the average is the same everywhere (to wit 100) and no comparison is possible. You norm the scale on one population (Britain in the case of Lynn and Vanhanen’s study) and express the other national averages on that same scale, using the same norms.

I guess it is so that many people do not understand the concept of “standard deviation” and therefore do not understand the difference between (1) mean and standard deviation of the I.Q. scale (which are defined, set, decided) and (2) means and standard deviations of actual populations (which are the result of measurement).

Perhaps it is good to relate the following anecdote for further clarification: Once I wrote an article in the Netherlandic Mensa journal in which I explained that I.Q.’s as yielded by most tests are normalized standard scores; that is, that they are really “percentiles in disguise”. The scores of the norming population are initially computed as percentiles (or whichever form of quantiles) and those are then converted to I.Q.’s via the normal distribution, mostly via table lookup. This process is known as “normalization” or “forcing the scores into a normal distribution”. In the next issue, a not-understanding member replied, “That is stupid; suppose that on another planet there live only 1000 beings; they highest I.Q. there could never be more than 147 or so, no matter how smart they are?!” Of course he made the same mistake of comparing I.Q.’s of groups that have been normed on different samples and are therefore not comparable. To compare groups, you have to express the I.Q.’s on the same scale. The highest I.Q. on the other planet, expressed by Earth norms, may as well be 200 (or 20, for that matter).

Another lesson to be learnt from the previous paragraph is that the verb “to normalize” means “to force into a normal distribution” and not “to norm”. This is an error sometimes made by incompetent dilettante test scorers, who may say posh-sounding things like “the test was normalized using scores on other tests”. They mean “normed”, not “normalized”. But that does not sound as impressive, does it?

Jacobsen: Why are unsupervised untimed tests allowing reference aids, supervised individual tests, and supervised group tests, suitable for admission?

Cooijmans: Because on those test formats it is possible to include hard problems and obtain validity in the high range, provided that ample time is allowed on the supervised tests. In practice it is often so that supervised tests lack hard problems, and some of them allow too little time.

Jacobsen: How are supervised timed group tests weighted on speed without validity at the high range?

Cooijmans: Because a speeded test has lower “g” loading, especially in the high range. This relation between speed and “g” loading has been found experimentally; if you allow more time for a test, its “g” loading rises. This is reported on by Arthur Jensen in his magnum opus “The g factor”, one of the more important books in psychometrics. Why is the “g” loading of speeded tests lower especially in the high range? Obviously, scores in the less than high range require fewer correct solutions, and the allowed time may be ample to solve such a lower number of problems. But for the high-range scores, many problems need to be solved, and the time is (purposely) too short for that. This type of test – speeded – tends to consist of easy problems that most persons of above-average intelligence could solve all when given enough time. Therefore, the ranking of candidates you get at the high end of such a test’s score distribution is determined by the speed at which one can solve easy problems. This speed has been found to be correlated with the personality trait of extraversion rather than with “g”, the common factor in mental testing. So technically, the test can give very high scores, but beyond a certain point the correlation with intelligence is lost so that the scores in that range are hollow with regard to “g”. That point is typically about the 99th centile. As an aside, I mention that this technique of test construction also prevents or hides the sex difference that is observed on true high-range tests.

After such an explanation, two things need to be stressed: (1) While test-taking speed is not loaded on “g”, reaction time is, and so are other elementary cognitive tasks. Elementary cognitive tasks are NOT test-taking speed. (2) Highly intelligent people are not necessarily “slow thinkers”; some misunderstand the explanation in the previous paragraph thus. But it is nowhere claimed that the correlation of “g” with test-taking speed is negative! Rather, test-taking speed is something else than “g”, lies outside the cognitive domain. Those high in “g” may be fast test-takers or they may not be fast test-takers. This depends on personality traits other than “g”.

Jacobsen: Why are unsupervised tests prohibiting reference aids, unsupervised timed, and self-scored tests, illegitimate for the purposes of the Glia Society?

Cooijmans: Without supervision, one could use reference aids despite the prohibition (which increases one’s score enormously on tests loaded on vocbulary and knowledge) and report the used time falsely or use more time than allowed. Self-scored tests could be scored falsely.

People have privately admitted such offences to me, but some violently deny it concerns fraud, with notorious false arguments like “everyone does it so the playing field is level”. Once in the Netherlandic Mensa journal, I wrote a satirical article in which I announced that the unmasking and punishment of test frauds was imminent. On the day of publication, one of them called me angrily over the telephone, emphasizing that it was not fraud what he had done, and begging me not to betray him. The idiot even offered to “help” me with certain tests, the answers to which he had received from other dishonest persons and was willing to share with me.

Jacobsen: As you note, most mainstream tests lack validity in the high-range because of the lack of items discriminating at the high-range. Why is mainstream psychology having little focus on the high-range given the lack of test items? They have far more resources than anybody else in the area of intelligence testing.

Cooijmans: I have come to believe that this is to avoid or hide the sex difference in performance on difficult tasks in the plane of mental ability. As an extra bonus to this answer, and, of course, entirely unrelated, I invite the reader to ask oneself why there are separate chess tournaments and championships for women.

Jacobsen: The last portion of the admission’s section describes the difficulty in discernment of intelligence level. What are some signifiers of sufficient quality of creative output in further consideration of an individual candidate to the Glia Society?

Cooijmans: I understand the word “signifiers” as objectively observable features, not as theoretical intrinsic qualities. Such signifiers are the continued production of work and availability of that work, the development of that work over time, the being capable of rational communication and the continuity of that capability, and the being a focal point of attention to others; really every creative person becomes the centre of a “school” or starting point of a trend sooner or later, albeit that in some cases this happens after the death of the creative person.

Negative signifiers are self-promotion and “marketing” of one’s work. Promotion, “marketing”, advertising and the like are only needed for low-quality individuals and low-quality work that no one is in urgent need of, that have no genuine place or niche in the market to begin with.

Jacobsen: Section VI Finance states, “The society does not own money. The Administrator kindly finances his work from private funds. This is the better system because one is more careful with one’s own possessions than with common property.” (Ibid.) This seems fairs. What can be careless use of funds in the instances of common property?

Cooijmans: Unneeded spending, spending more than needed, buying from merchants chosen nepotistically, and using common funds privately, to name a few. These things are so common that they seem almost inevitable, and they are hard to stop because the culprits involved are volunteers that will leave when criticized harshly, defending their wrongs with statements like, “How dare you criticize this volunteer’s work?! I am doing all the work while you do nothing”, and “A prestigious society needs to spend much on its promotion otherwise no one takes it seriously”.

An example of unneeded spending was observed in the 1990s in the Triple Nine Society, where members who had not paid their dues in years were kept on the member list and sent the (paper) journal nevertheless, thus giving the impression of a much larger membership than there in fact was.

Jacobsen: Section VII Journal states:

VII Journal

The journal named “Thoth” is distributed among members six times a year. It is produced at low cost and contains, verbatim, copy by members or others. There is no censorship and the Administrator or Editor makes no alterations or revisions. Copy is reproduced as accurately as possible and not shortened. Sole restriction to this anti-censor policy is that in no case correct answers to the society’s admission tests are published. This paragraph implies that, apart from the restriction, any member at any time has absolute certainty that whatever copy that member submits is published verbatim. This guarantee is exceptionally rare and valuable for a journal, and constitutes a golden opportunity for who can appreciate it. If one does not see that opportunity and grab it with both hands though, one does not deserve it to begin with.

The size of a journal issue may vary, depending on the amount of copy available at the time of production of that issue.

The journal is named after the Egyptian moon god Thoth. Thoth, represented as a scientist and magician, was seen as the inventor of writing and reckoning and creator of languages. Thoth weighed the hearts of the deceased at their judgment to decide whether they would be admitted to the hereafter or, if the test was failed, torn to pieces by a monster that was a mixture of a crocodile, a lion, and a hippopotamus. (Ibid.)

Has anyone been foolish enough to try to publish correct answers to the society’s admission tests in Thoth?

Cooijmans: I do not remember any instance of that, so I think not.

Jacobsen: Why is verbatim publication of one’s copy exceptionally rare in a journal?

Cooijmans: Because editors tend to have an irresistible urge to alter other people’s text, thinking they are improving it. There is not enough respect for the integrity of text, there is no understanding of the true meaning of “copyright”. Perhaps a lesson is in place: Copyright is (1) the right to publish a work and (2) the right to alter a work. (2) is not generally known and understood, possibly because by far most people never experience the hell of having one’s work messed up, simply because by far most people never produce any work of significance that could be messed up in the first place. Copyright has nothing to do with money, but serves only to protect the integrity of work. Altering a work without the author’s permission is copyright violation (in the case that the author is the copyright holder); it is like cutting up the author’s soul with knives. That is the part of copyright that is not sufficiently understood.

To complete the lesson I should add that copyright is a natural right that one obtains through the act of creating a work. Contrary to popular misunderstanding, it is not needed or even possible to go to some institution to “copyright” the work. One has the copyright the moment one has created the work. Exceptions are (A) when the work is created as a paid assignment, in which case the employer has the copyright, and (B) when the copyright is transferred to another person, typically by contract.

Jacobsen: Section IIX Members states:

IIX Members

When joining the society, the candidate receives an I.D. with name, member number, and secret U.R.L. of the members-only web location. Members notify the Administrator of changes of address when needed.

Following incidents involving misbehaviour by members, the following grounds for expulsion have been formulated, with in parentheses the number of offences needed for expulsion:

Fraud with one’s, or anyone’s, qualifying score (1);

Publishing, spreading, or communicating to anyone else than the scorer, answers to admission tests (1);

Leaking between-members communication to non-members without the explicit relevant permission (1);

Admitting non-members to members-only communication fora of the society and neglecting to remove those non-members after discovering or being alerted to this offence (several to 1);

Insults, lies, misrepresentation of another member’s character, extreme rudeness, harassment, and similar behaviour (several to 1);

Highly unethical (including criminal) behaviour outside the Glia Society (several to 1);

Displaying in word or deed that one’s actual intelligence level is well below the level required by the society (several to 1). (Ibid.)

Given the statement about misbehaviour, there have been explicit cases to create many parts of the members section. What was the date of the first fraudulent score for the Glia Society?

Cooijmans: This question assumes that that precise date was recorded somewhere for easy access, but that is not so. It takes searching in archives to uncover such information, and as far as I can find, the first known fraudulent score took place in or before December 1998, and was discovered between August 1999 and March 2000. This is the case mentioned in point 7 of the article “Reasons not to spread test answers” at https://iq-tests-for-the-high-range.com/reasons.html (do notice there is a spoken version hyper-referred to there).

Jacobsen: How many fraudulent scores have been uncovered and punished to date for the Glia Society?

Cooijmans: Of course, the numerical answer to a question like that does not exist in a readily available form. There is test fraud, there are fraudulent scores, both in and outside the Glia Society, and I do record the names and references to it when known to me, but with exactly those four qualifications (fraudulent scores, uncovered, punished, for the Glia Society) there is not a ready list, and hours of searching would be needed to count exactly those cases. I find two at the moment, among many that do not exactly meet all four qualifications.

Jacobsen: For wrongly communicating, publishing, or spreading, answers to admission tests, how many have been caught and punished?

Cooijmans: I assume this is meant within the Glia Society, although that specification was left out. I count four now. Of course there are also latent cases, where there is no hard proof yet.

Jacobsen: For leaking member communication to non-members without consent, how many have been caught and punished?

Cooijmans: Zero. Those cowards are hard to catch. Private communication from members to non-members leaves no traces.

Jacobsen: For admitting non-members to members’ communication fora and failing to remove a non-member knowing this fact of non-membership, how many have been caught and punished?

Cooijmans: Zero. While this has certainly taken place, it is not appropriate to punish such people as it does not concern deliberate wrongdoing but laxity. A forum moderator or administrator is supposed to consult the member list before admitting an applicant to ensure that only members are admitted. In practice, it has occurred that such officers would not take the trouble of consulting the list and just admitted anyone who applied. Within months, such a forum becomes infested with non-members, some of whom actually believe they have truly joined the Glia Society and are full members! Only when they happen to contact me – “As you know I am a Glia Society member and…” – and I tell them they have never been members, they discover, to their shock, disappointment, and anger, what happened.

Another form of unpunished laxity took place when I appointed a forum inspector well over a decade ago. He agreed to inspect the society’s fora and report any non-members every six months. He did one inspection right away. A few years later I reminded him he had missed several inspections in a row, and he did another one. Then, he did nothing any more and I eventually appointed another inspector, who did do it punctually. You can not punish such people, but this does show how easily the voluntary participation of members in running an I.Q. society can cause damage and undermine the society’s functioning. You need to keep an eye on it and correct things that go wrong.

Jacobsen: How often are extreme rudeness, harassment, insults, lies, misrepresentation of another member’s character, and similar (mis-)behaviour present?

Cooijmans: I must say this is rare now, but more frequent in the past when the only forum was the electronic mail forum. On that medium, discussion escalated often, but premeditated character attacks also certainly took place.

Jacobsen: Following from the previous question, what has been the highest number of offences by a single individual? What offences have been so egregious to only require 1 instance to qualify for expulsion?

Cooijmans: One does not count the exact number of offences by a serious repeater, but there was one member who, one the electronic mail forum, sent almost only non-messages for months on end. Virtually everything he sent was nonsense, spam, generalities, Rorschach-Barnum material, rather than true forum participation.

Offences requiring only one instance for expulsion: Fraud with one’s, or anyone’s, qualifying score; publishing, spreading, or communicating to anyone else than the scorer, answers to admission tests; leaking between-members communication to non-members without the explicit relevant permission.

Jacobsen: For highly unethical, including criminal, behaviour outside of the Glia Society, what are cases of highly unethical behaviour? What have been cases of criminal behaviour if I may ask?

Cooijmans: That is a dangerous question, as some members might object to there being criminals in the society and leave. In the history of the Glia Society, I am aware of only one case of imprisonment of a member, and I believe it had to do with drugs. Possibly there have been more who did not inform me of their crimes.

Jacobsen: What indicates, in word or deed, an intelligence below the level of the Glia Society, even well below the admission requirements of the Glia Society – enough to qualify for expulsion?

Cooijmans: That is an interesting question. I assume it is about behaviours of people who are already members. The repeated submission of extremely badly written articles, often consisting of copied-and-pasted fragments from online news articles, would be an example. Stupid remarks on a forum might be another example: “If you want to lose weight, the last thing you should do is sport, because then you gain muscle mass and muscles are heavier than fat”. Displaying a course sense of humour. Forwarding chain letters or “memes”. Using different names at different times and not understanding that the other person can not know that they are one and the same person on those different occasions. Filling in only one name (first or last name but not both) for the member list, or wanting to be listed as an anonymous member. Not learning from mistakes, not accepting being corrected but persisting in the error. Trying to order tests one has already taken, not remembering one has already taken them or denying one has already taken them, trying to trick the scorer into retests, insulting the scorer when a score is lower than one would like, trying to bribe the scorer to get a higher score. Expressing oneself ungrammatically in one’s native language (“Do you think your better then me?”) Using idioms when communicating with an international community, not realizing that people from other cultures may not know those idioms even though they are highly intelligent.

An example of displaying a course sense of humour, accompanied by an inability to understand more subtle humour, occurred ten years ago when I gave a member, who had previously sent me some incredibly course jokes and cartoons, the honour of being briefly referred to in my novel “Field of eternal integrity”; after seeing his cameo appearance (which was ever so slightly satirical I have to admit) this member told me “I don’t like this”, broke off communication with me, and wrote a few ugly things about me on a social medium.

Jacobsen: How often do revisions take place for the Glia Society constitution?

Cooijmans: Rarely, once in many years.

Jacobsen: What continues to be the motivation for the ongoing administration of the Glia Society?

Cooijmans: The curiosity as to what a group is like that is truly selected for high intelligence, and its usefulness in test development and intelligence research. Also, the mere longevity of the society adds to its value, provided that its quality is retained or improved.

Jacobsen: What have been the major lessons in administration of the Glia Society?

Cooijmans: The improvements of the admission policy (so, knowing how to truly select at the given level), and learning how to deal with misbehavers. The most important lesson is that the better you select, the fewer misbehavers you will get. I am certain that goes for society in general too.

Jacobsen: Any final thoughts based on the interview on the Glia Society, in particular or as a whole?

Cooijmans: There have been many questions, and some overlap, so I may have repeated or even contradicted myself here or there. I made no attempt to be artificially consistent with prior answers as that would be a narcissist thing to do.

Jacobsen: Thank you for the opportunity and your time, Paul.

Cooijmans: Cheers. Interviews are a great way to communicate with the world.

References

Cooijmans, P. (n.d.e). Quality of Norms. Retrieved from https://iq-tests-for-the-high-range.com/statistics/explained/quality_of_norms.html.

Cooijmans, P. (n.d.d). Resolution. Retrieved from https://iq-tests-for-the-high-range.com/statistics/explained/resolution.html.

Cooijmans, P. (n.d.c). Robustness. Retrieved from https://iq-tests-for-the-high-range.com/statistics/explained/robustness.html.

Cooijmans, P. (2008). Robustness, Validity, and Reliability. Retrieved from https://paulcooijmans.com/intelligence/validity.html.

Cooijmans, P. (n.d.b). The Glia Society: Constitution. Retrieved from https://gliasociety.org/constitution.html.

Cooijmans, P. (n.d.a). The Glia Society Contact information. Retrieved from https://gliasociety.org/contact.html.

Footnotes

[1] Administrator, Giga Society; Administrator, Glia Society.

[2] Individual Publication Date: March 15, 2022: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/cooijmans-9; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Tor Arne Jørgensen on God, Leonardo Da Vinci, and Religion: 2019 Genius of the Year – Europe, World Genius Directory (6)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/03/15

Abstract

Tor Arne Jørgensen is a member of 50+ high IQ societies, including World Genius Directory, NOUS High IQ Society, 6N High IQ Society just to name a few. He has several IQ scores above 160+ sd15 among high range tests like Gift/Gene Verbal, Gift/Gene Numerical of Iakovos Koukas and Lexiq of Soulios. Tor Arne was also in 2019, nominated for the World Genius Directory 2019 Genius of the Year – Europe. He is the only Norwegian to ever have achieved this honor. He has also been a contributor to the Genius Journal Logicon, in addition to being the creater of toriqtests.com, where he is the designer of now eleven HR-tests of both verbal/numerical variant. His further interests are related to intelligence, creativity, education developing regarding gifted students. Tor Arne has an bachelor`s degree in history and a degree in Practical education, he works as a teacher within the following subjects: History, Religion, and Social Studies. He discusses: one of the more favourite geniuses; an enigmatic and a puzzling character; the source of the myth as an artist first rather than a natural philosopher and engineer; noteworthy quirks of behaviour and personal taste; trends; heretical minds; religion; his lack of religion; gods make the most sense; gods make the least sense; religious denomination within a religion, seems the most reasonable, plausible, and balanced; a belief in God; faith justified; faith not justified; the terms “faith” and “religion” conflated; despised throughout the world; the best argument for God; the best argument against God; where one is born, for the most part, determine, largely, one’s belief in a particular religion rather than another; the obsession of religion with women’s bodies; religions make only or mostly men leaders; science and religion; the greatest genius in history; the good of religion; the nature of religious community; an interview with a pastor; long chats with religious community leaders; the different major world religions; demographic advantage for the rest of the 21st century; the Norwegian take on religion and religious community; thoughts on the future of religious evolution; evolution via natural selection such a terrible bane for religious ideology; and, Intelligence Design proponents and Creationists.

Keywords: genius, intelligence, Leonardo Da Vinci, Tor Arne Jørgensen.

 Conversation with Tor Arne Jørgensen on Leonardo Da Vinci: 2019 Genius of the Year – Europe, World Genius Directory (6)

*Please see the references, footnotes, and citations, after the interview, respectively.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Leonardo Da Vinci, in experience of interviewing a decent number of individuals of the high-IQ communities, is consistently ranked among the favourite geniuses of the communities. He seems to have made a deep impression on them. Which raises some questions for yourself, as you’re a growing member of these communities, as a member of more than 50 high-IQ societies, is Da Vinci one of the more favourite geniuses in history for you?

Tor Arne Jørgensen[1],[2]*: The answers present it selves with is resounding yes, by the resolute effort he made to meet his nascent and at most pure sense of curiosity about how the world around him worked. That his legacy perceived as something very distinctive and exceptional becomes for me a desire to learn more about the life of this very special man. Will also add to the fact of carrying the seal even with a promoted awe at its way of self being, whereby expressions of one’s inherent disposition are not obscured, but in fact are parade through the streets of medieval Florence with great sense of pride in a time when narrow-minded prejudices, persecutions further by several acts of terrorism due to church and their tunnel vision views of colorful diversity among men.

The Church’s normal reply in most cases in accordance with their own views as to uphold their interpretation of “high moral standard”, was to deploy its league of death dealers to deliver the lords message of righteousness to the unholiest of men. The defiance shown by Leonardo and the likes of him, the fearlessness, the resistance, and unwavering courage at a time when difference was not accepted back then and still replies today is nothing short of impressive, all credit due to Leonardo the character, the man and what he stood for and believed in, is a designation of the highest dignity even overshadowed by its inherent and shining genius, a true persona indeed. This is for me perhaps the most admirable trait and legacy of Leonardo to be honor through the ages.

Jacobsen: Famously, Da Vinci is seen as an enigmatic and a puzzling character, though recognized through inventions and artistic works. One myth to bust is the fact of having less interest in art and more intrigue in – what is now called – science and technology. The art was a series of techniques developed to study geography, anatomy, flight, and the like. What seems like the purpose of this technique for Da Vinci, personally?

Jørgensen: Leonardo’s notes are based on what is to be found in information, made in the sense of creating an accepted overview of his surroundings in the eternal search to improve his horizons of understanding presented in his paintings and more … these notes are massive and noted in many of his sketchbooks, better known as zibaldone. More than 7,200 pages have been found, but it is believed to be at least double that. The notes that Leonardo made are referred to as; ” the most astonishing testament to the powers of human observation and imagination ever set down on paper.”

Leonardo’s codex collections are varied, impressive, and diverse in its fullest sense. His accumulation of notes was further established, it was a kind of “work in progress”, whereas changing or improvement of previous thought understanding, were improved upon on or deviated from all together, this done in order of being able to fixate on a more innovative approach to be used as a more practical form of understanding. He paved the way as to pass on further the conceptual understanding of our pictorial views, this was due to his lack of mathematical understanding, as Leonardo saw pattern formations to a much greater degree than through understanding of fundamental perceptions through mathematical calculations.

The same can be said about his understanding of written language of Latin, which he also did not achieve to the extent he himself wanted. Seeing patterns in all movements, which one can add that he studied people’s approach, conversation with each other, those of normal hearing and the hearing impaired, namely the deaf, Leonardo who found it extra exciting to observe their sign language, and guidance of understanding each other’s conversational appearances. That to be surprised to such an extent to give oneself completely to the elements surrounding him to see into what I experience as the future perlatives, as we back then and still now today allow ourselves to be amazed at his innovative techniques. We must be able to study, learn, admire, seek, and explore what is facilitated by nature and her fundamentals, then and only then can one truly discover one’s own preconception believes of the wondering surroundings and precise optimal perception of the known universe.

Jacobsen: What seems like the source of the myth as an artist first rather than a natural philosopher and engineer?

Jørgensen: As for the source of his works, it probably lies in the fact that he defended with great effort on his part what it meant to create a masterpiece. Where color, shading, use of light to create contrasts, and removal of lines used to create the outline by and for the contours, also by incorporation of so many different elements from sculptural constructs, scientific discoveries in addition of the geometric figurations of mathematics to create spatial obscurities. Leonardo mentions in several texts that art moves across so many more layers than mathematical calculations will allowed for compilation with regards to geometrical movements, and or sculptural constructs. Fractural summarized by so many more considerations are needed in order of producing a masterpiece, then any scientific endeavor would ever portray, nor any calculating terms against a preconception of universal laws.

Leonardo and his obsession with experimenting to better understand the world around him was motivated by being able to express himself in a way that could last for posterity and present himself in the everlasting spotlight in his quest for world fame.

The fact that painting at that time was not seen as something that would necessarily secure you money and fame, one had to shift focus in the pursuit of easier income by weapon encroachments for a more prosperous living environment, as an eternal tangle of frills with a clear goal. Will finally point out that Leonardo was not known for signing his works, he spent a lot of time on his artworks, and most were not completed. If then the search for fame was so great, why not make yourself known for posterity by signing your art. Or was that exactly what he did, when he drew himself into most of his compositions, perhaps some of the most famous ones, but left his true identity out…

Jacobsen: He wore purple tunics, wrote left-handed, wrote backwards, and may have been either asexual or homosexual, or pansexual or queer, hung out with mostly men and had a trusted young male friend, Salai. What seems like some other noteworthy quirks of behaviour and personal taste of him to you?

Jørgensen: Firstly, some info about the boy Gian Giacomo Caprotti or as he was referred to by Leonardo as Salai or “Little Devil.” Salai in this case came to Leonardo when he was about 10 years old, Leonardo at the time was about 38 years of age, the event took place in July 22, 1490. The relationship that was then to unfold moved over from being seen as firstly of a student, or apprentice, but this is mostly wrong.

The boy started as an assistant at first then later a companion, and eventually a lover at some point in time later on. Now to Leonardo and his other quirks, or extremities if one can call it that.

He wrote down everything he experienced in notebooks, it is mentioned in several texts that he had a pocket notebook with him that was small enough not to be a nuisance, this was used to write down what he experienced of the local community around him, he could bring home with him random people in order to observe them in normal conversations, whereupon there characteristics of their distinctive features appear in a humorous way which could then later be used as sketch drawings where humor, anger, and thoughtfulness was to be expressed. The way forward to create vivid moments, which can be equated today with taking pictures, where the 3-D effect is produced, every detail is recreated and put in its proper element even in its heyday, to make the image production so accurate as possible, was for Leonardo absolutely crucial, fueled by impression of manic behavior in his search of perfection.

Furthermore, his humor was widely acclaimed through his theatrical spectacles and promiscuous inventions in good company with those around him. There are also his slightly macabre aspects of dissecting dead people and various animals to better understand the human and animal anatomy in detail, this paved the way for groundbreaking work within anatomical knowledge, that is in some way still used today.  This of course done so he better could depict his artwork more vividly, to better preform through creative artwork that seemed more alive, more lifelike.

Jacobsen: Some take some quotes out of a larger context of the views of Da Vinci, as if a religious person. He may have had – and seemed to have – deep naturalistically spiritual sentiments, moral convictions, and spelled out personal opinions about God and the soul in paragraphs. He was deeply doubtful of either. Similarly with another character in the history of times before intelligence measurement, William James Sidis, he was clear about personal atheism. These aren’t the majority of the opinions but stand out because of the oppressive circumstances or general views of the laity and the societal hierarchs of their times. Even Goethe may have went through spiritual and other circumstances, he, eventually, ended, more or less, what seemed like an atheist. Einstein considered the biblical texts “pretty childish.” These are the typical views one would gather from the world of theological debate without simply looking at the words rather than what people say about the words, the interpretations. Do you see these trends, too?

Jørgensen: Will in this subtask, if one can call it that, by fortify myself further in the same track to ensure a unifying preconception of the main character (Leonardo) life and work. If one is then going to turn towards the more religious aspect, and what known statures and thereby implications this had on Leonardo’s life and the work that he did, then one must take the following considerations, which in turn can be presented in a questioning range of possibilities, whereas critical conceptualities and fortified truths may crumble if even just a bit, and will probably appear at best as; (speculative observations bordering on heresy towards Christianity’s written truths and religious belief systems).

When one then goes ahead with this task and by that presents what concernments from what one knows in the degree of information is hereby then interpreted, and furthermore is then firstly and foremost to illuminate the following scale view of Leonardo and the supreme position of the Catholic Church according to homosexuality sat era. The era decreed is traced back to the Middle Ages, just before Leonardo returned from Milan to Florence in the late 15th century, I will now refer to a text excerpt from world renowned author Walter Isaacson and his bestseller book about Leonardo Da Vinci the following quote is marked as follows: “In 1494 a radical friar named Girolamo Savonarola had led a religious rebellion against the ruling Medici and instated a fundamentalist regime that imposed strict new laws against homosexuality, sodomy, and adultery.” (Walter Isaacson, Leonardo Da Vinci, p.300).

Now it should be said that a radical fundamentalist does not define the statutes of the Catholic Church per se, but the angles towards this type of “deviate» orientation are clearly consolidated in the Bible, which apply still to this day as well. I would then like to point out that the “elephant” in the room by reference to Leonardo’s orientation, his appearance, as he does not in any way try hide his orientation in the least either in characteristics, or general clothing style, nor who he appeared with point in term to Salai. Is it conceivable that Leonardo’s personal experience of what the church’s general attitude towards homosexuality did not go completely unnoticed? We must not forget Leonardo and his Loki prominent stature, and immense brilliant mind far ahead of his own time, probably the clear dominant intellect in the Western hemisphere at that time. The ecclesiastical council did not quite see from what I can understand, what Leonardo really brought forward to the table as to various works commissioned by the church. It is possible that the interpretation missed completely or at least partial based on the actual intention ambiguity visualized by beautiful and whimsical brushstrokes by the master artist himself.

That the church fathers interpreted the works of Leonardo as an agreed tribute to the biblical characters, for the intended purpose is to me almost a bit on the ridiculous side, no offence intended. With all due respect to the religious believers back then and through the ages, one will imagine that one’s own inherent motions and emotions would at some point materialize via some form of personal confliction through their expressional art in many cases across their professional commitments. I must extract a clear case according to the following painting by Leonardo. Virgin on the Rocks. Two versions were made, the first version which hangs today in the art museum in the Louvre Paris and the second version which hangs in London. The commissioning of the work was done as many know by the Confraternity of the Immaculate Conception.

If one then looks at the picture that hangs on the Louvre, ie the first version that was not completely accepted as a commissioned work, and had to be redone and what almost imposes itself on the testimonies studied, then one sees a prominent phallus, right behind the head of a Virgin Mary. This center stone is clearly and prominently shaped like what is just mentioned. In this case, I tried a small experiment when I asked my class as I I am a teacher of religion about the following artwork: “What do you see in this painting?” The answer that came back was 90% of the 10th grade pupils unanimously agreed with, and without me pointing out the obvious, that; the picture had an erotic twist clearly presented. So, it was concluded that yes, a rock formation of a major phallus was clearly visible in the painting. The question was asked again among my personal friends and colleges, and the same answer came back again. Also, there are several more cases where the artist indulges in their humorously funny elements at the expense of the blindness of the believers.

What then is meant by this, in a clear case about John the Baptist that was one of Leonardo’s most admirable figurants, the love he was shown in Leonardo’s paintings was not equated with Jesus nor Mary Magdalene This is due to the disagreements between John the Baptist and Jesus and more… So, it does not matter. Short Review, John the Baptist is said to have been arrested and later killed by losing his head, at the behest of King Herod. I must also add that Leonardo’s ultimate wish was to become famous beyond national borders at any cost. If one then looks further at the Shroud of Turin and the time around the 13th century, whereby the world’s most likely first photograph was taken, and where the separation of the head and body emerges clearly, with reference to the fate of John the Baptist with his beheading.

This image is supposed to be Jesus’ shroud in the aftermath of the well-known crucifixion, but the height of the cloth itself is measured at over 2 meters, which would then have made Jesus the foremost giant of all time, but which mysteriously does not appear in any biblical texts. Something that would of course have been noticed had that been the factual case. No, what is the most likely being displayed is not the body of our savior, but rather that of Leonardo himself. What I take for granted from what one sees and reads inn various written works is that Leonardo has managed to fool the whole world with his absolute masterpiece to portray himself as Jesus through ways of ecclesiastical statues, paintings and so on, thus secure eternal fame.

As he liked to paint himself into his own artworks, he visualizes him selves through his sketches and paintings as form of young, old, male, and female version. Will then finally point out that the most famous painting of all time the Mona Lisa, is probable self-portrait of a female expressive Leonardo, same as in the drawing of the Vitruvian Man in full scale. The desire to secure total fame for all eternity is in my opinion clearly accomplished, and I might add brilliantly executed, all credit to you Leonardo for your achievements and your contributions to the world.

Jacobsen: We see similar heretical minds considered singular-ish in their own eras. Those who would not be found throwing rocks at a wall, as in the Great Jamara; a wall representing Satan and intended as a practice to remind believers of the Devil’s efforts and to prevent believers from being led astray. Quote-mining is often done by individuals preaching for their interpretation of a sacred scripture. However, the opposite can be done, as suggested above. Hypatia said, “ All formal dogmatic religions are fallacious and must never be accepted by self-respecting persons as final.” Also, “Fables should be taught as fables, myths as myths, and miracles as poetic fantasies. To teach superstitions as truths is a most terrible thing. The child mind accepts and believes them, and only through great pain and perhaps tragedy can he be in after years relieved of them.” During a trial, it is reported that Bill Sidis was an atheist and did not – hilariously stated – believe in the “Big Boss of the Christians.” Goethe, by 1931, seemed highly skeptical of the supernatural or faith-based claims, stating, “I have found no confession of faith to which I could ally myself without reservation.” Da Vinci stated, repeatedly, similar sentiments, “When the followers and reciters of the works of others are compared to those who are inventors and interpreters between Nature and man, it is as though they are non-existent mirror images of some original. Given that it is only by chance that we are invested with the human form, I might think of them as being a herd of animals.” Again, “Along with the scholars, they despise the mathematical sciences, which are the only true sources of information about those things which they claim to know so much about. Instead, they talk about miracles and write about things that nobody could ever know, things that cannot be proven by any evidence in nature.” Once more, “Wherever there is no true science and no certainty of knowledge, there will be conflicting speculations and quarrels. However, whenever things are proven by scientific demonstration and known for certain, then all quarreling will cease. And if controversy should ever arise again, then our first conclusions must have been questionable.” Finally, “It seems to me that all studies are vain and full of errors unless they are based on experience and can be tested by experiment, in other words, they can be demonstrated to our senses. For if we are doubtful of what our senses perceive then how much more doubtful should we be of things that our senses cannot perceive, like the nature of God and the soul and other such things over which there are endless disputes and controversies.” So, these ideas of quote-mining seem silly, in the end, to me, and more indicative of the reasoning given, at times, by profound intellects, more than a proof, evidence, or neither, of some deity. What do you make of these particular cases listed above?

Jørgensen: One can in most cases argue against prudence as to the incomprehensible notion of content presented, where adaptation of that content should be place in order to create a more meaningful utterances for the neglected notion that is being formatted. We cannot forget that the origin must be consolidated in its natural environment, where tested through scientific explanations, cannot be taken out of its legitimate context. A mixed outcome to secure their beliefs neither -nor from must be confirmed fortitude, on this I agree of what emerges from scientific approaches in favor of their religious alter egos.

Jacobsen: What is religion to you? How do you teach this to school children?

Jørgensen: How to answer something that will not be swallowed up, is also not understood for the purpose for which it is intended. I tend to find that my own experience of what religion is or means to me, can hardly be explained in the context of not being experienced as an incantation of consideration for someone other than the creation itself.

One way I experience religion is to engage by seeking something beyond oneself in one sense or another, which one can then leave to be redeemed from one’s sins in whatever fundaments of time this may or may not have arisen, thus dictated against the texts there has its origin in a somewhat sinful state. Or perhaps look inward at oneself, where one’s own strength, creation, discovery of inner spirits, whereby one works to accept what can be experienced as load-bearing foundations for creative structures beyond. I prefer the latter, as the desired qualities which are then best sought are answered by searching inwardly towards one’s exalted spiritual status, as these have a self-observed quality in being more easily fulfilled in those for accusations whereas conceivable mundane.

To the other share questions about teaching students about the true nature and thereof characteristics by fourth fundamentals through personal experienced religion. Can it be answered more pruned than that of the historical element within the religious regime, that is what triggers my intentions.

What is then created by personal enthusiasm in my religion classes is the students’ reflective abilities of and about what is met by informants through teaching situational settings. But it should be said that the principle of neutrality of pure instructive structure where one’s own experiences should not be turned against a subject one’s will, has thus become a burden that is sometimes too heavy to bear.

Jacobsen: Are you religious? If so, in what sense? Or if not, why not?

Jørgensen: If one can describe oneself as a bearing force that cannot be defined, but which in a way can be worshiped in the hope of having their prayers answered in a very different sense, then the answer is yes, more so than that an abstract spiritual unity in the state of fulfilled ideological from shekels, whereby the outcome of prayer is as always absent with its presence in its all-state. No, I would rather seek towards inherent qualitative value where one can get a reply and receive some kind of factual sign, rather this then the alternative…

Jacobsen: What gods make the most sense to you?

Jørgensen: No God creates a sensible mindset in me, as one can rather say by which inherent identity may seem most likely to lean towards an abstract reason-based unity. The search from within is for me what seems to create correction towards a greater spectrum of truth than a sorry entanglement of spiritual eventualities.

Jacobsen: What gods make the least sense to you?

Jørgensen: Every worship of these false idols is to me a fallacy by their mere absent of tangible essence.

Jacobsen: What religion, in fact religious denomination within a religion, seems the most reasonable, plausible, and balanced to you?

Jørgensen: Which denominations that to me seems like the most likely balanced or probable today is probably none. The fact that religion-based thinking should be founded, where we should all submit all of our humanly faith over to a larger autonomous being, is for me by the very definition wrong. The only thing that can be said to have a touch of balanced intelligibility is what was practiced by tribal societies before mainly, whereby the earthly distributions and their naturally established anchors, formed the fundamental basis in most cases of worshiping.

Jacobsen: Some argue for a need for a belief in God. Others argue for a psychological propensity for the creation of many gods, as in animistic gods. Do these claims seem evidenced to you, reasonable to you?

Jørgensen: Thinking that for most people, seeking beyond themselves and leaving their intentions to a type of false idol, where they can seek understanding, awe, comfort, and security becomes quite clear to me. We live in a chaotic society. The question of “are alone in the universe”, what is the true basis for our existence? Why are we, what is our purpose I life, etc. …? This loneliness or lack of understanding for us being created, can easily be applied to the fact that we are specially chosen to serve some tasks given to us by a higher benign being, as I see it, the obvious underlying intent of eternal emotional slavery in one sense or another. What is then more understandable than searching beyond what nature has assumed, where our understanding ends, and we of course seek towards the supernatural realm in the eternal search for an account of one’s own existence, a final answer to the all-consuming question of WHY?

Jacobsen: When is faith justified?

Jørgensen: Faith depends on seeking comfort when there is no comfort to be found, I choose to find comfort not to lift one’s own values ​​before a divine figure, but for oneself. To stand to look at oneself in the mirror and find one’s values ​​and see that this is good. That your inherently inviolable values ​​make you proud of yourself and your actions, they are both a reflection of the inherent transcending being and are justified as such.

Jacobsen: When is faith not justified?

Jørgensen: Now a fort can seem harsh against a huge ecclesiastical movement. “Faith can move mountains”, as the saying goes. Further that faith will prevail in the end is for me in these times of war in Europe and has been displayed up through the ages across the globe, that considering all the suffering that mankind has experienced, for me the belief in an almighty good God, whereby a single intervention from the Almighty would have stopped all the evil that takes place.

The fact that God’s will happens for a reason, such as the fact that, if something good happens, it is a miracle through the will of the almighty God, but if something terrible happens, then God works in mysterious ways. To me, the term of a benign Almighty God, in which we should all praise by his mere kindness to all mankind. His goodness is portrayed regardless. In the film End of days from 1999, where it is said by the antichrist played by Gabriel Byrne to the retired policeman Jericho played by Arnold Schwarzenegger, that “God had a fantastic PR agent”, I must reveal that I agree with what was presented here in his statement. So, to conclude I will say, that for me faith is in most cases is not justified in any sense.

Jacobsen: Why are the terms “faith” and “religion” conflated?

Jørgensen: To think of faith and religion as two polarized entities in which a natural bond does not exist, falls on its own unreasonableness. This will not come as a shock to the most people, where one follows the other, or rather the one cannot exist without the other, they exist in an addictive relationship, like some similar notion of Yin and Yang.

Jacobsen: Everyone has a right to freedom of belief, expression, and religion. However, not all are treated equally. Why are Muslims and, particularly atheists, so despised throughout the world? I assume the reasons are both similar at some points and dissimilar at others.

Jørgensen: Going against generally accepted norms is probably always seen as disgraceful, if one looks back in time, when people who opposed the ecclesiastical communities, or as Leonardo Da Vinci had a different idea of ​​the dogmatic foundations of the time, where persecutions were carried out to a great extent. Creates emotions even today, where ridicule, expulsion, inflicting shame, and intimidation propaganda such as “you will end up in hell if you do not turn towards God, even in today’s society are very real factor of retribution.

This forms much of the basis for not daring to- speak out, though it should be said that we are now experiencing a greater acceptance of the expression of different opinions, where much of the dogmatic returns are not as powerful as before, at least not executive in their practice to the same degree as now. You can actually survive after presenting your counter-perceptions towards the church, and not be burned at the stake or worse …

Jacobsen: What seems like the best argument for God?

Jørgensen: Big brother syndrome, or a fatherly figure that will take care of you in some way. This abstract being is for many an anchor point that gives the majority of people around the world a purpose in life, someone to confine in, to seek shelter in, a kind of safe haven.

Jacobsen: What seems like the best argument against God?

Jørgensen: In short, believe in your own powers, trust yourself, trust that you are born without sin, and that you are born perfect as nature intended. You are strong as a self-governing being, you do not need to seek outwardly to some kind of greater entity for acceptance, or approval, you are born with these qualities. Believe in yourself, and thus pray to yourself, only then will great things happen as you would like them to.

Jacobsen: Why does where one is born, for the most part, determine, largely, one’s belief in a particular religion rather than another?

Jørgensen: In short, the social structures determine which way the religious compass directs us.

Jacobsen: What is the obsession of religion with women’s bodies?

Jørgensen: What is described in what a woman’s body is, Jesus is portrayed as thin and muscular, but the woman here in this case is portrayed as a little fat, where gluttony has its distinct origin. Otherwise, in more general terms, the woman is seen as the driving force, where innocence and piety have clearly emerged.

Jacobsen: Why do most religions make only or mostly men leaders?

Jørgensen: Reasoned in the beginning with the distinction that was put out by Saint Peter him selves against the potential and actual heir Mary Magdalene or rather “Apostle of apostles”. The feud between her and Saint Peter is recorded and fortified in the eternal holy texts, where Jesus himself had to protect Mary from Peter’s wrath. Had the religious outcome been reversed as to gender, where Mary was selected as the natural choice to pass on the gospel of Jesus, then the male-dominated expression would probably have been completely different. High-level politics has created the religious layer that has been accepted as right and proper in everyone’s eyes, but should this be taken as a actual fact or not, that may be up for a serious debate on what gender was the rightful successor in passing on the gospel to all mankind.

Jacobsen: Are science and religion, ultimately, irreconcilable or reconcilable, e.g., via their epistemologies and derived ontologies?

Jørgensen: Leaning against the scientific justifications, where reality is clearly rooted in both the epistemological and the ontological origins, this cannot be said to the same degree for me, as my views of concern regarding the counterpart of religious and its reason for justification.

Jacobsen: Who do you regard as the greatest genius in history?

Jørgensen: A difficult choice to make, by the allusion that several candidates can easily be labeled as the world’s changing individuals, were influential qualities towards a common good are accelerated in the name of development. Since one can probably here in this round lead in the direction of what has been described here as a clear candidate, where the ability to see solution proposals not justified until five hundred years into the future in several cases, can probably and thus easily be presented here in perhaps the greatest prodigy that the world has ever seen by the amazing talents of the one and only Leonardo Da Vinci.

Jacobsen: What is the good of religion? I mean “the good” as in the Good, the positive, the upbeat, the constructive, and so on.

Jorgensen: Religious communities’ main purpose as I see it, is by gathering people from all walks of life in a shared form of communion. They get an experience of sharing something very special together. It forms the basis for affiliation, a sense of belonging without the consequences of social division, regarding the working, middle and nobility classes. Everyone has a common understanding of togetherness. This is probably as much as I can bear to muster up of positivity towards the religious community.

Jacobsen: What is the nature of religious community?

Jorgensen: As I see it, separation, from the rest, a them and us, them who are looked upon as the chosen ones that will be allowed to enter paradise through salvation by the lord all mighty, and we the rest also recognized as the enlighten ones, those who are dammed for our heretical opinions for all time where the next stop is simply put, purgatory and then hell.

Jacobsen: I recall an interview with a pastor a few years ago. He brought to mind something about the nature of a church, or any place of worship, e.g., mosque, synagogue, temple, cathedral, etc. It’s not an empty volume. It’s an idea. It’s a place in which communally recognized dogmas are renewed, reinvigorated, and brought together under a common ideological framework. Often, superstitious, illogical, anti-scientific, and nonsensical, but, in a way; a certain nobility to the entire endeavour – something with grandeur, while sweet and reassuring: a comfort. Do you find the same or different, or similar?

Jorgensen: For those concerned, and by that, I mean those who finds a need for affirmation of the self through recognition, togetherness, understanding, comfort, and assurance that their imprint in this world is affirmed and further considered by the spiritual world as a sure one-way ticket into the hinterland. Furthermore, my impression is, well, a hesitant affirmation, furthered by the proviso of common denominators.

Jacobsen: Have you ever had long chats with religious community leaders?

Jorgensen: During my time as a student of religious history, and with my didactic specialization also within religion. I did meet many Christians that had a special personified relationship towards their religious beliefs and debated whether or not their foundations within their faith could be justified beyond what is referred to in various sacred texts. Duly intended as to how they came into their strong religious beliefs, and what they saw as the most fundamental reason for their personal inclinations towards their belief system. Furthermore, what do they think about scientific truths. Their reply was as ever unified notion of; that science has only so far confirmed what the Bible has always stated and will always state with reference to its factualizing texts about the universe and all its content etc.

Jacobsen: How do the different major world religions build community?

Jorgensen: There are many variations here, but requiting is done manly through different medium, religious gatherings, among other things. Furthermore, emphasis is placed on, as mentioned earlier, a “them and us”, where a promise of eternal life is promoted, in short, a sure way to paradise. This is just some of what is being done in order to requite new members to their distinct religious beliefs.

Jacobsen: What world religions seem to have the demographic advantage for the rest of the 21st century?

Jorgensen: Geographically, based on the standards that have carried the religious imprint that we are left with today, I see no religious section that has a clear advantage. The changes that may or may not come by way of demographic bliss will thus have the intended alteration, based solely through means of assimilation, based on the pragmatic rule. This is absolutely crucial for the religious imprints of the future.

In sum, the understanding of the dominant religious dogmas of the future will be incontrovertible to which religious directions that will have the most distinctive and thus effective control over its followers.

Jacobsen: What is the Norwegian take on religion and religious community?

Jorgensen: Stable downward trend, where more and more people see the real underlying intentions that we have been taught to follow blindly through fear of eternal damnation promoted by the church’s friendly nature or now more precisely its total absence of that claimed notion of righteous friendliness.

Jacobsen: Any thoughts on the future of religious evolution?

Jorgensen: The religious layer will in the long run diminish, or change into an alternative form, it has always had, since the time when the first humans fortified themselves to the earthly elements, or through religious sacrifice in order to appease the higher powers, by human sacrifice or animal sacrifice. Or as in later times whereupon one exalted oneself to the status of God-King like the pharaohs of old. As long as there are people on earth, religion will exist, but as mentioned, it will probably be diluted in the long run.

Jacobsen: Speaking of, why is evolution via natural selection such a terrible bane for religious ideology?

Jorgensen: Reason being is relatively simple, where the genesis narrative in the beginning of the Bible, so to speak, appears as pure fabrication, against its counterpart relation to what is factualized according to Darwinist mindset. That is, what can factually be proven scientifically. The fact that our total existence does not exceed more than 6000+ years, is to me unfathomable, considering the mountain of evidence that indicates the complete opposite. In sum, the whole biblical fact notion would then be inevitably reduced to nothing more than pure nonsense, and possible resulting in a total collapse of all structural foundations on a global scale.

Jacobsen: Why are Intelligent Design proponents and Creationist so hell bent against it?

Jorgensen: As referred to above, the Bible for one loses all credibility, which in turn can lead to a total collapse regarding the ecclesiastical commonwealth. The religious conglomerates are not interested in losing their mighty and clammy hands over their blind subjects, where high politics governed through lust for power and wealth are at stake. The question is how much longer can this misleading policy be allowed to continue before the world finally wakes up?!

Footnotes

[1] Tor Arne Jørgensen is a member of 50+ high IQ societies.

[2] Individual Publication Date: March 15, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/jorgensen-6; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2022: https://in-sightpublishing.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Debunking I.Q. Claims Discussion with Chris Cole, Richard May, and Rick Rosner: Member, Mega Society; Co-Editor, “Noesis: The Journal of the Mega Society”; Member, Mega Society (1)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/03/15

Abstract

Chris Cole is a longstanding member of the Mega Society. Richard May is a longstanding member of the Mega Society and Co-Editor of Noesis: The Journal of the Mega Society. Rick Rosner is a longstanding member of the Mega Society and a former editor of Noesis: The Journal of the Mega Society. They discuss: I.Q.; fake I.Q. and real I.Q.; more reliable and valid I.Q. ranges; robust, legitimate tests; and the status of measuring I.Q. scores above 4-sigma.

Keywords: Chris Cole, debunking, I.Q., intelligence, Mega Society, Richard May, Rick Rosner.

Debunking I.Q. Claims Discussion with Chris Cole, Richard May, and Rick Rosner: Member, Mega Society; Co-Editor, “Noesis: The Journal of the Mega Society”; Member, Mega Society (1)

*Please see the references, footnotes, and citations, after the interview, respectively.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Today, as this is a group discussion with three longstanding members of the Mega Society, the focus is Intelligence Quotient or I.Q., particularly debunking claims. What is I.Q. truly a measure of, at this point?

Chris Cole[1]*: I.Q. is an attempt to measure general intelligence, which is analogous to the power of a computer. There is an enormous literature on this subject. I’m going to take it as a given. It will be embarrassing if when we understand more about how the mind works it turns out to be a chimera.

Richard May[2]*:‘g’, the general factor of intelligence, i.e., cognitive ability.

Rick Rosner[3][4]*: IQ as measured by a high-end test is somewhat different from IQ as measured by a regular range usually group-administered test. Regular range tests measure intelligence, the ability to focus for 45 minutes, and cultural literacy.

High-end tests can measure obsessiveness and attention to detail, a love of puzzle-solving, and in some cases desperation for validation.

Intelligence has changed over the past 20 years to include skill at using tech to get answers.

Jacobsen: What differentiates a fake I.Q. score claim from a real one, e.g., signals of a fraud or claims far above the norms of a test, etc.?

Cole: Since it is difficult to define, it is difficult to measure. There is a desire to claim intelligence which creates a motivation for “vanity” tests. In science we try to overcome such tendencies using experiments to disprove theories. It is a sign of trouble if a test is not carefully normed.

May: You can perhaps find examples on Facebook and the social media generally.

Rosner: Concerted efforts to lie are fairly rare – claiming a high IQ is not very helpful in life and may even hurt – there’s Stephen Hawking’s quote that “People who brag about their IQ are losers.” There are casual claims – BSers at parties, movie stars trying to seem smart. Geena Davis’s PR team used to mention that she’s Mensa. Sharon Stone is said to have a 150 IQ. James Woods 180. And these might be legit. But that’s to address a specific issue of not being considered a bimbo.

One big tell for IQ fraud is people claiming to have completed and gotten a high score on the Mega or Titan in 10 or 12 hours. Back in 1985, I spent more than 100 hours on the Mega. Now with the internet (and coding skills which I don’t have), I could’ve cut that time by 80%. But the internet has also invalidated the Mega – not only with all of the answers floating around out there but also with instantly solving the verbal analogies just by plugging them into Google.

Jacobsen: What ranges for I.Q. scores have the highest reliability and validity, typically?

Cole: The Langdon and Hoeflin tests are on the cutting edge of reliability and validity. The Mega Test, for example, has been normed several different ways. A group of us are working on a new test that is cheat resistant.

May: Scores with the highest reliability and validity are those closest to the mean on standard IQ tests. Hoeflin and Langdon’s tests are untimed power tests more suitable for measuring above average intelligence.

Jacobsen: What tests are considered the most robust, legitimate?

Cole: We have a problem now that several of the most carefully normed, such as the Langdon Adult Intelligence Test, the Mega Test, the Titan Test, the Ultra Test, and the Power Test have been spoiled.

May: Those of Hoeflin, Langdon and Wechsler.

Rosner: Hoeflin’s tests have been the most thoroughly revised and normed. His Mega Test was normed on more than 4,000 test takers. His test items are excellent. But his tests have been voided by the internet – too many easily found answers. The Mega was published in Omni magazine in 1985, I think, a decade before most people had the internet. You had to use actual physical dictionaries.

Today, I think Paul Cooijmans’ tests are the most legit high-end tests. Paul takes pleasure in bursting the bubbles of people who claim high IQs by offering stringent scoring and norming. Doing well on his tests takes much time and what he calls “associative horizon” – being able to come up with dozens of ideas to crack a tough item.

Jacobsen: What is the status of measuring I.Q. scores above 4-sigma – experimental high-range testing, in other words?

Cole: The Adaptive Test, which is a work in progress, is the cutting edge. Contact me if you want to work on it. [Ed. chris@questrel.com.]

May: Apparently measurement at the far-right tail of intelligence has improved astronomically. I mistakenly thought that determining and measuring IQ was quite difficult even at the 4 sigma level. The Mega Society used to have a statement either at the beginning of Noesis or on our website or both, I think, indicating that we attempted to select members at the 4.75 sigma level, but selecting this rarity was experimental and quite difficult for many reasons. (Not exact wording.) 

Today there is an IQ group which has apparently identified the 3 most intelligent individuals on planet Earth! This is quite an achievement in my view.

Since it is well known that the actual distribution of IQ-scores at the far-right tail does not conform to a Gaussian distribution, one has to assume that even if the ceiling of the IQ tests employed was sufficient (not exceeding that intended by the test developers) and the intercorrelation of the various tests at the highest levels was known and that the correct Kuder-Richardson (?) formulas were applied to concatenate the valid IQ scores, that the entire population of planet Earth was actually tested by or on behalf of this group. Since various planetary subgroups of different sizes could have differing means, standard deviations and distribution shapes, a weighted average would need to be taken in order to determine the statistical properties of the global IQ distribution for planet Earth.

This is an unparalleled achievement in psychometric history. I personally don’t know anyone tested for this project in order to determine the actual shape of the global distribution of IQ-scores at the far-right tail, but I assume this is just a minor sampling error. Presumably you and your friends and neighbors have all been tested. Since the three most intelligent individuals on planet Earth have now been identified in fact, the correct protocols were undoubtedly used. If only Lewis Terman were alive now! — LINK here.

Footnotes

[1] Chris Cole is a longstanding member of the Mega Society.

[2] Richard May (“May-Tzu”/“MayTzu”/“Mayzi”) is a Member of the Mega Society based on a qualifying score on the Mega Test (before 1995) prior to the compromise of the Mega Test and Co-Editor of Noesis: The Journal of the Mega Society. In self-description, May states: “Not even forgotten in the cosmic microwave background (CMB), I’m an Amish yuppie, born near the rarified regions of Laputa, then and often, above suburban Boston. I’ve done occasional consulting and frequent Sisyphean shlepping. Kafka and Munch have been my therapists and allies. Occasionally I’ve strived to descend from the mists to attain the mythic orientation known as having one’s feet upon the Earth. An ailurophile and a cerebrotonic ectomorph, I write for beings which do not, and never will, exist — writings for no one. I’ve been awarded an M.A. degree, mirabile dictu, in the humanities/philosophy, and U.S. patent for a board game of possible interest to extraterrestrials. I’m a member of the Mega Society, the Omega Society and formerly of Mensa. I’m the founder of the Exa Society, the transfinite Aleph-3 Society and of the renowned Laputans Manqué. I’m a biographee in Who’s Who in the Brane World. My interests include the realization of the idea of humans as incomplete beings with the capacity to complete their own evolution by effecting a change in their being and consciousness. In a moment of presence to myself in inner silence, when I see Richard May’s non-being, ‘I’ am. You can meet me if you go to an empty room.” Some other resources include Stains Upon the Silence: something for no oneMcGinnis Genealogy of Crown Point, New York: Hiram Porter McGinnisSwines ListSolipsist SoliloquiesBoard GameLulu blogMemoir of a Non-Irish Non-Jew, and May-Tzu’s posterous.

[3] According to some semi-reputable sources gathered in a listing hereRick G. Rosner may have among America’s, North America’s, and the world’s highest measured IQs at or above 190 (S.D. 15)/196 (S.D. 16) based on several high range test performances created by Christopher HardingJason BettsPaul Cooijmans, and Ronald Hoeflin. He earned 12 years of college credit in less than a year and graduated with the equivalent of 8 majors. He has received 8 Writers Guild Awards and Emmy nominations, and was titled 2013 North American Genius of the Year by The World Genius Directory with the main “Genius” listing here.

He has written for Remote ControlCrank YankersThe Man ShowThe EmmysThe Grammys, and Jimmy Kimmel Live!. He worked as a bouncer, a nude art model, a roller-skating waiter, and a stripper. In a television commercialDomino’s Pizza named him the “World’s Smartest Man.” The commercial was taken off the air after Subway sandwiches issued a cease-and-desist. He was named “Best Bouncer” in the Denver Area, Colorado, by Westwood Magazine.

Rosner spent much of the late Disco Era as an undercover high school student. In addition, he spent 25 years as a bar bouncer and American fake ID-catcher, and 25+ years as a stripper, and nearly 30 years as a writer for more than 2,500 hours of network television. Errol Morris featured Rosner in the interview series entitled First Person, where some of this history was covered by Morris. He came in second, or lost, on Jeopardy!, sued Who Wants to Be a Millionaire? over a flawed question and lost the lawsuit. He won one game and lost one game on Are You Smarter Than a Drunk Person? (He was drunk). Finally, he spent 37+ years working on a time-invariant variation of the Big Bang Theory.

Currently, Rosner sits tweeting in a bathrobe (winter) or a towel (summer). He lives in Los AngelesCalifornia with his wife, dog, and goldfish. He and his wife have a daughter. You can send him money or questions at LanceVersusRick@Gmail.Com, or a direct message via Twitter, or find him on LinkedIn, or see him on YouTube.

[4] Individual Publication Date: March 15, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/debunking-1; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Paul Cooijmans on the Tenth Anniversary of the Glia Society: Administrator, Glia Society (8)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/03/08

Abstract

Paul Cooijmans is an Independent Psychometitor and Administrator of the Glia Society, and Administrator of the Giga Society. He discusses: “Glia Society tenth anniversary lecture”; the interaction and reaction of the people present at the tenth anniversary; writing articles and placing advertisements in magazines; founding a high-I.Q. society and learning; the apathetic to the pessimistic; members failing to see the immense opportunities available before them; virtuous individuals; other traits; creative output; e creation of work for the high I.Q. society by members; an important ethical consideration of the lives of individual members outside of the high-I.Q. society; “first test design activities”; 1994; the problems much too difficult for most of the volunteers; September, 1997; the highest scorers; the 3 highest legitimate scores on a Cooijmans test by testees; using the most up-to-date norms on tests; the website and the e-mail forum; communication on the e-mail fora; some distinctions between the new and old logos; the inspirations for the old logo and the new logo; particular difficulties; the total number of high-I.Q. societies; the standard policy changes to high-I.Q. societies; reformation of a society; and changes of the Glia Society between 2007 and 2021; and other changes.

Keywords: Glia Society, I.Q., I.Q. tests, intelligence, Paul Cooijmans, tenth anniversary.

Conversation with Paul Cooijmans on the Tenth Anniversary of the Glia Society: Administrator, Glia Society (8)

*Please see the references, footnotes, and citations, after the interview, respectively.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: “Glia Society tenth anniversary lecture” (n.d.) is a lecture given on October 6, 2007, in Brussels. How many people were present at this tenth anniversary?

Paul Cooijmans[1],[2]*: Six.

Jacobsen: In recollection, what was the interaction and reaction of the people present at the tenth anniversary?

Cooijmans: Early on, there was some discussion around negative topics like test fraud and unqualified idiots in I.Q. societies, but I managed to end that by playing guitar. I gave the lecture twice, and the first time was filmed. The guitar was a handmade steel-string guitar I had bought just one week before, so I was not used to it yet. Two of those present (at least) have died meanwhile.

Jacobsen: You describe writing articles and placing advertisements in magazines (Ibid.). What was the trend in the early responses to the articles and the advertisements?

Cooijmans: People were mostly very enthusiastic and interested, especially from abroad. Responses from my own country, the Netherlands, were relatively often negative. In particular I remember one response saying, “If you want genius, go to the asylum”.

Jacobsen: You remarked on founding a high-I.Q. society and learning “not everyone benefits from membership like I have benefited from it” (Ibid.). Some members “remain passive, consumptive, negative or complaining… are disappointed after joining” (Ibid.). How are these unproductive stances of members of a high-I.Q. society?

Cooijmans: I do not understand the formulation of this question well, but I suppose I could answer like this: These members may be either entirely inactive, or they may complain there is not enough to do, or they may complain that “everything is cast in stone” and they have no influence on what goes on. They may also participate in initiatives of other members, which is good of course.

Jacobsen: How are these particular members from the apathetic to the pessimistic contributing to these problems?

Cooijmans: People with negative, complaining attitudes scare off new members, and do not add to the positive activities going on in the society. A problem with completely inactive members is also that they remain on the member list as long as they do not explicitly resign (which I would rather have them do), thus creating the impression of a larger membership than there effectively is. This is a result of there being no membership fee. With a fee, you could remove members who failed to pay. For information, the member list contains around 500, the active members are probably 100 to 200.

Jacobsen: Also, how are these particular members failing to see the immense opportunities available before them?

Cooijmans: I think the essence is that the opportunities I see in the high-I.Q. community require initiative and an inner drive, while these people expect something more organized or ready-made presented to them. Another factor, with regard to negative and complaining attitudes, is that people in general complain about problems they can not solve; they complain so that others will solve those problems for them. So, people with a high problem-solving ability will complain less than those with lower levels of that ability.

Jacobsen: How is selection by I.Q. scores, even very high I.Q. scores, insufficient to gather virtuous individuals into a society based on I.Q.?

Cooijmans: While intelligence does correlate positively with being virtuous, this correlation is not perfect. The combination of high I.Q. scores and lack of virtues may occur in cases of test fraud, or in people belonging to a caste or bloodline wherein high intelligence has coagulated genetically with evil as mentioned by me before. So even with selection by I.Q. scores, you have to stay alert to unethical behaviour and act against it.

Jacobsen: What other traits “must be taken into account” in the creation and growth of a high-I.Q. society (Ibid.)?

Cooijmans: Being ethical, and conscientious in general. Associative horizon, sense of humour. Combined with intelligence, these will result in creativity.

Jacobsen: Why is creative output another important aspect of people in creating or developing a high-I.Q. society?

Cooijmans: The fact that someone is creative, and produces work, reveals the possession of a combination of intelligence, conscientiousness, and a wide associative horizon, and these people tend to be good members. They are self-directed and inner-driven.

Jacobsen: You remark on the non-necessity of the creation of work for the high I.Q. society by members, as this can sap energy and time of a member who functions in other capacities in the world outside of the high-I.Q. society. Why do some high-I.Q. societies, potentially, not consider the lives of members outside of the high-I.Q. society?

Cooijmans: If such societies still exist, I believe they require such work to make certain that all members are actively involved in the society in a positive way. An example was Ludomind, where it was required to design a certain number of puzzles every year or something like that. I would not commit myself to that, I want to decide for myself where I put my time and energy.

Jacobsen: Why is this an important ethical consideration of the lives of individual members outside of the high-I.Q. society?

Cooijmans: Because the real-world work of a creative person is more important than one’s activities in an I.Q. society.

Jacobsen: You stated:

My first test design activities were not with intelligence tests but with a guitar playing ability inventory called the Graduator. This psychometric instrument could express a guitarist’s advancedness on a scale from 0 to 300. I scored over a hundred guitarists on it; the all-time top score is 237.

Here is the certificate to go with that.

In addition, the Graduator was an artificial composer who created a musical composition to each possible score profile out of 2 to the 300th. The algorithm consisted in pencil on paper and had to be executed by hand for each score profile; this was so much work that I only managed to complete it for one score profile: my own. A recording thereof is available on my web site. The title of the piece is For who loves truth, the garrote called ‘life’ is daily tightened a turn. (Ibid.)

Even though, your “first test design activities” began with the Graduator. What personal proclivities and interests preceded even the construction of the Graduator, the psychometric instrument?

Cooijmans: Composing, music theory, guitar playing, writing, running, reading about science, trying to understand things like awareness and the universe, cycling, chemistry experiments, explosives, fireworks, mopeds, hypnosis, building model aircraft, listening to music, photography.

Do notice that possible proclivities and interests that came after the Graduator are not listed here.

Jacobsen: The pivotal year, perhaps, was 1994 with work on the Graduator for guitarists leading into “intelligence test problems” (Ibid.). You experimented with volunteers. You found the problems “were much too difficult for almost all who tried them…” (Ibid.) Was the transition from the Graduator to intelligence test problems easy, natural?

Cooijmans: Yes, I could even use partly the same volunteers for the early intelligence test experiments, like guitar students.

Jacobsen: Why were the problems much too difficult for most of the volunteers?

Cooijmans: This must be the phenomenon of projection; the problems seemed easy enough to me, so I assumed, involuntarily and unawares, that they would be easy enough for others too. This kind of projection is important, and I have come across it in the fields of guitar playing and music theory too. Teaching and psychometrics are two activities that confront you with this: What is easy, natural, or obvious to me, is not necessarily so to others. What I know is not necessarily known by others. What I am capable of does not always lie within others’ capabilities. To make things understandable and doable to or for others, I have to go many levels below what I initially believe to be the appropriate level of difficulty.

Jacobsen: What made September, 1997, a sufficient year, since beginning with intelligence test problems in 1994, to found the Glia Society?

Cooijmans: I was in contact with a number of people who were willing to join a new society, and I had some ideas about how to run the society, based on what I had seen in other societies meanwhile.

Jacobsen: Who have been the highest scorers consistently on the alternative tests constructed by you? Those who have taken many tests by you and scored high on them.

Cooijmans: I can not say that because it would violate their privacy.

Jacobsen: What have been the 3 highest legitimate scores on a Cooijmans test by testees to date while using the most up-to-date norms on tests? If I may ask, who were these individuals?

Cooijmans: First, I want to say that this is not an easy question. There are many thousands of scores in the database, and they are raw scores. To compare them, they have to be converted to protonorms. This would not be doable by hand in any reasonable amount of time and effort. To our good fortune, over the course of two decades I have painstakingly written programming code and created a protonorm database so as to dynamically link the raw scores to their current norms, and, for instance, put out a list of scores that exceed a certain level, with the name of the test and candidate if desired. This is the largest and most complex informatics project I have undertaken, and I think it is also the most difficult thing I have ever done, intellectually.

Of course, any good programmer should be able to do this. Still, I must say I never see test statistics by others that even remotely have the quality of my reports, so it seems that not many combine their programming skill with statistics. I set the controls such that only the top three scores remained, and they are 76 raw on the Cooijmans Intelligence Test – Form 3E, and 27 and 28 raw on the Cooijmans Intelligence Test 5. The I.Q.’s are 190, 186, and 190, respectively. I can not give the names as that would violate the privacy of the candidates.

Of course, the norms in that range are still uncertain, and there may be a number of scores right under these that, after renorming, turn out to be equal to or higher than these.

Jacobsen: Why make the website and the e-mail forum for the Glia Society in February, 2001, rather than earlier or later?

Cooijmans: I did not have an Internet connection before that time, and had bought a computer in January. The day I got Internet, I had the web location online by midnight. The electronic mail forum was started by another member on 7 March 2001; I did not even know what it was at the time.

Jacobsen: You stated:

Communication on the e-mail fora — there are two now — is different from that in the journal. Because of the easy nature of e-mail, those who could never write a journal article through of lack of ability are now able to rise to the surface and become prominent. Before the e-mail era, such members would have remained invisible. Now, they become conspicuous billboards for the society, signalling to every new member: stupidity rules here. This is a destructive phenomenon that has yet to be exterminated. (Ibid.)

Any sign of extermination?

Cooijmans: Yes, lately I have not seen any such behaviour. This may also be because most communication is now taking place on other than electronic mail fora, and I have not personally kept up with everything.

Jacobsen: Outside of the sex club or the pornographic web site reference regarding the new logo – at the time, what were some distinctions between the new and old logos pointed out by members, even non-members?

Cooijmans: Some found the old logo more beautiful, and it was also noted that the old logo was actually pictorial while the new one consists of styled letters, so is text-based. I have kept the new logo on the web location because I think it looks better on the whole there. For the journal Thoth, I have, in some periods, regressed to the old logo that graced the cover of early issues, but not recently because that logo takes up a whole page, so that the contents table has to be placed on the second page (or on the back, when Thoth was still in paper form). Somehow, that version of the old logo only works if it has the whole page for itself.

Jacobsen: What were the inspirations for the old logo and the new logo, at the time?

Cooijmans: For the old logo, that is meant to represent a brain cell. For the new logo, I do not know as it was designed by someone else. It contains the letters “Glia Society”, perhaps that might serve as a subtle hint as to its inspiration.

Jacobsen: You stated, “Finally a few words about possible improvements to the Glia Society, or I.Q. societies in general. The quality of communication and activity in a society depends mostly on the quality of that society’s membership, which in turn depends on the admission policy.” (Ibid.) How is this more easily stated than practiced? What particular difficulties have occurred with the Glia Society for you, e.g., finding wolves in sheep’s clothing, having to expel frauds, removing rude people from fora, and so on and so forth?

Cooijmans: The easiest part is the fine-tuning of the admission policy. Difficulties have occurred when dealing with undesired behaviour, but most of that has already been mentioned I think. One person who was expelled objected to his expulsion, and then died while his case was being considered. People have been annoyed when (temporarily) removed from a forum and resigned as members, but subsequently tried to stay present on another forum. People have purposely misbehaved to provoke their removal, and then acted as if they were victims and unjustly punished. People who leaked information to non-members could not be identified.

Jacobsen: You continued:

As said before, selecting by I.Q. alone is not enough; additional assessment of personality and creative output or productivity is needed. So for improvement, either the admission policy of an existing society has to change, or a new society has to be formed with a better policy.

The latter is constantly being done, especially since the advent of the Internet which made it easy for every Tom, Dick, or Harry to start its own super-high-I.Q. club, so that there is now an endless proliferation of societies that each think they have invented the wheel. (Ibid.)

Any estimate as to the total number of high-I.Q. societies, or at least claimed high-I.Q. societies, that have been founded since the formation of the first high-I.Q-society?

Cooijmans: I have not counted them, but probably in the order of a hundred or more.

Jacobsen: What have been the standard policy changes to high-I.Q. societies to improve these longstanding issues regarding admission and membership quality?

Cooijmans: There are no such standard policy changes, most societies are all too happy with a defective admission policy and low membership quality. They would not want it any other way. In fact, those responsible for defective policies would not be in their respective societies with a stricter admission policy in the first place.

Jacobsen: Your preference has been reformation of a society. Although, “Reforming an existing society is difficult though, because you have to deal with the current membership which is partly incompatible with the possible new admission policy.” (Ibid.) Has this been an issue since 2007 with the Glia Society? What were the policy changes to the Glia Society between 1997 and 2007?

Cooijmans: These are two questions. I will take the first as “Has this been an issue with the Glia Society since the most significant admission policy changes took place?” There are two issues; the first is that of returning members who qualified under the old policy but no longer have qualifying scores. It has been decided to re-admit those without requiring new proof of qualification. So effectively, past membership counts as qualifying. This decision is based on considerations of humaneness, and concerns a limited number of people.

The second issue is that of existing members who no longer qualify by the current policy. Also for reasons of humaneness (and for consistency with re-admitting returning members with outdated qualifying scores) these are allowed to remain.

The policy changes were to no longer accept homogeneous (one-sided) tests on their own but only in combination with another homogeneous test of different contents type, and to no longer accept tests that proved unsuitable for some reason, for instance invalid in the range where the pass level lies. These were a number of regular psychological tests, but also the later versions of educational tests like S.A.T. and G.R.E.

Jacobsen: What have been the changes of the Glia Society between 2007 and 2021?

Cooijmans: It is not clear if meant here are changes to the admission policy, or changes in general. I think the admission policy has not changed lately, only tests have been added and removed to the list of accepted tests as needed. A general change is that the paper version of the journal has ended. This saved an enormous amount of work, and also the postage rates in the Netherlands had been rising such that I was almost ashamed to ask a fee that would cover the cost. In the end it cost close to 4 euros to produce and mail the booklet. This had almost doubled in ten years time. If you bought stamps, a few months later they were outdated and you had to add extra postage. At some point they stopped putting the amount on the stamp, so that they could raise the price of it without needing to print new stamps. That is privatization of public services for you.

Jacobsen: You stated:

One of the changes I might make in the future is to keep my tests, or most of them, exclusively for Glia Society members, and use for admission other people’s tests and maybe just one or two of my own, in addition to assessment of personality features besides intelligence and assessment of creative output.

Apart from improving the admission policy in several ways, this will have the advantages of protecting my tests better from the general public, and of protecting myself better from the general public. I will probably have to charge a fee then when members take my tests. (Ibid.)

How extensively were these changes pursued?

Cooijmans: Not at all yet, but some of it might occur one day. An alternative scenario is that wherein I become so rich that I do not need test fees any more; I might keep scoring tests then, but restrict them to a select group like Glia Society members and GliaWebNews subscribers, something like that.

References

Cooijmans, P. (n.d.). Glia Society tenth anniversary lecture. Retrieved from https://gliasociety.org/lecture.html.

Footnotes

[1] Administrator, Giga Society; Administrator, Glia Society.

[2] Individual Publication Date: March 8, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/cooijmans-8; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2022: https://in-sightpublishing.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Richard May (“May-Tzu”/”MayTzu”/”Mayzi”) on “No Mirrors” and “Sunrise”: Co-Editor, “Noesis: The Journal of the Mega Society” (8)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/03/08

Abstract

Richard May (“May-Tzu”/“MayTzu”/“Mayzi”) is a Member of the Mega Society based on a qualifying score on the Mega Test (before 1995) prior to the compromise of the Mega Test and Co-Editor of Noesis: The Journal of the Mega Society. In self-description, May states: “Not even forgotten in the cosmic microwave background (CMB), I’m an Amish yuppie, born near the rarified regions of Laputa, then and often, above suburban Boston. I’ve done occasional consulting and frequent Sisyphean shlepping. Kafka and Munch have been my therapists and allies. Occasionally I’ve strived to descend from the mists to attain the mythic orientation known as having one’s feet upon the Earth. An ailurophile and a cerebrotonic ectomorph, I write for beings which do not, and never will, exist — writings for no one. I’ve been awarded an M.A. degree, mirabile dictu, in the humanities/philosophy, and U.S. patent for a board game of possible interest to extraterrestrials. I’m a member of the Mega Society, the Omega Society and formerly of Mensa. I’m the founder of the Exa Society, the transfinite Aleph-3 Society and of the renowned Laputans Manqué. I’m a biographee in Who’s Who in the Brane World. My interests include the realization of the idea of humans as incomplete beings with the capacity to complete their own evolution by effecting a change in their being and consciousness. In a moment of presence to myself in inner silence, when I see Richard May’s non-being, ‘I’ am. You can meet me if you go to an empty room.” Some other resources include Stains Upon the Silence: something for no oneMcGinnis Genealogy of Crown Point, New York: Hiram Porter McGinnisSwines ListSolipsist SoliloquiesBoard GameLulu blogMemoir of a Non-Irish Non-Jew, and May-Tzu’s posterousHe discusses: “No Mirrors”; and “Sunrise.”

Keywords: Buddhas, Capgras, Finnegan’s Wake, G. I. Gurdjieff, Goethe, I Ching, indeterminacy, James Joyce, Jiddu Krishnamurti Man of Tao, May-Tzu, mirrors, Noesis, recursion, Richard May.

Conversation with Richard May (“May-Tzu”/”MayTzu”/”Mayzi”) on “No Mirrors” and “Sunrise”: Co-Editor, “Noesis: The Journal of the Mega Society” (8)

*Please see the references, footnotes, and citations, after the interview, respectively.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: “No Mirrors” – ahem – reflects the same pattern as before in this comedic philosophical work. Are there no mirrors, or are there no people to be reflected by the mirrors, or nothing to be reflected and nothing to reflect at all? I ask on behalf of nobody.   

Richard May: There are no mirrors that work, i.e., allow one to actually see oneself and there are no individuals to be reflected by the mirrors, only fictional narratives in our brains from which we construct our identities, always playing our favorite character in fiction.   See Valentines Moment:  https://megasociety.org/noesis/176#29  “ … two opposing mirrors each reflected, and even mirrored, each other with perfect, but depthless, fidelity; empty mirrors looking into each other eternally, or until someone turned off the lights.”  and Dr. Capgras Before the Mirrors. “Am ‘I’ actually strobing moment to moment among the shadows of shadows . . . of shadows of uncountable Buddhas in a quantized stream of time or recurring endlessly in some fragmented eternity? Will these replacements of myself happen in the past or have they already happened in the future?” “But who or what is the observer, here before the mirrors, and who or what is the observed?” (Noesis The Journal of the Mega Society Issue #200, January 2016, page 44) https://megasociety.org/noesis/200.pdf  Nobody, the Man of Tao, will see what I mean.

Jacobsen: The opening two lines state:  Sitting in a room observing myself,  sitting in a room observing myself,  I ask the prior question within that context. As the point of view of no one is in itself paradoxically formulated when ‘confronted’ with a mirror, it’s the recursion of the system, which continually strikes me in the head like an Acme Co. anvil. So, as if a recursive crash test dummy, why is recursion or a cyclical quality sopopular with you? 

May: It a recursion and an indeterminate nested regress. Observing myself — observing myself — observing myself —

Jacobsen: At 16 or some such age, maybe younger actually, I read Finnegan’s Wake,   

May: I should be interviewing you or you should be interviewing yourself!     \

Jacobsen: painfully. I should have read the preface,     

May: I would probably have read only the preface.

Jacobsen: which stipulated, more or less, in the first sentence, ‘The first thing to understand about this text is that it is essentially unreadable.’ (Thanks.)

May: That may also be the 2nd and 3rd thing to understand about the text.

Jacobsen: Yet, I see a similar cyclical quality in this work and in the works of James Joyce. The themes are presented as jokes,

May: “Some subjects are so serious that one can only joke about them.” — Niels Bohr

Jacobsen: as in a Wittgenstein quote. It, definitely, is a philosophical work; it is, certainly, a comedic work; and, it’s, obviously, recursive in character. Did you ever read any Joyce?

May: Any? Oh, yes, the titles of a few of his works, maybe a few pages here and there, the philosophically important parts. I recall one of his characters was fascinated by the farting of his girl friend, undoubtedly as contributing to Gynecogenic Global Warming versus the issue of the suppression of women’s flatus by the Patriarchy, and perhaps another character was very interested in the stains on women’s panties. Divination by panty stains may be an Irish form of divination, perhaps equivalent in subtlety to the I Ching. I go for the quintessence when I read, because of a tendency to subvocalize, attention deficit disorder and a bit of OCD. (Will this be on the ‘test’?)

Jacobsen: The line, “slumped, chin in hand,” brings to immediate mind the posing philosopher stance, the famous sculpture stance of a thinker. A stance supporting a “concatenation of jokes in a black cap…” 

May: “a concatenation of jokes in a black cap” is a bit of self mockery.

with “no Buddhas,” which goes to some prior points about there being nobody home to show ‘The Way’ or some such master-slave relation.   
May: Eh? Truth is a pathless land. — Jiddu Krishnamurti.

Yet, at the same time, it’s even worse than that… there’s no one home in the stance! This is a headache to think about(!), but for no one. The part seeming ambiguous to me: “black cap.” What is “a black cap” referencing? Do you wear black hats, too? And how so? 

May: A cap is a form of headgear or clothing that you wear on your head. I would have thought that some Canadians would have seen caps. Black is the absence of light. Sometimes I have worn black hats or other colors, mostly on my head. “Alles Vergaengliche ist nur ein Gleichnis.” — Goethe. Everything transitory is only an allegory or metaphor (of the eternal). So I suppose that a hat is not actually a hat. But I thought it was a hat.

I used to dwell in what I generously referred to as the Nigerian sewer system, a city often mistakenly thought to be in New York State. It was cold during the winter, which was eternal. Hence, I often wore a hat, even indoors.

Jacobsen: The lines about stealing truth, in some manner, have been explained before. Then, back to recursive text, the closing lines remark on observing yourself sitting in a room. In this manner, the process of thought creates a ‘you’ or a little i. How do you cross the ts and dot the ‘i’s on the “little i,” as in awaken? 

May: G. I. Gurdjieff taught a certain process of self-observation. One could observe oneself in various “centers” or minds, somewhat analogous to the Hindu chakras or the centers in Taoist alchemical philosophy. One could strive to be present to oneself in the moment, simultaneously aware of the sensations of the body, the solar plexus or the emotions and the ordinary intellectual mind.

Slumped simply refers to my bad posture.

Jacobsen: “Sunrise” is more of a synesthetic reading experience. We see “no one” referenced who is “listening,” or not, with the “taste of Braille shadows.” I am reminded of the “taste of vagueness,” etc., referenced in other works within the text. You’re a poet, No One, not a politician. You lure others into a world rather than lead them there with a gun.   

How was the meal by the way, the “Braille shadows”? 

Sunrise

No one

— listening

— the taste of Braille shadows”

May-Tzu

May: Braille shadows taste somewhat like koans. — Umami Mama, it’s all Dada!

Footnotes

[1] Co-Editor, “Noesis: The Journal of the Mega Society.”

[2] Individual Publication Date: March 8, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/may-8; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Paul Cooijmans on Registration to the Glia Society: Administrator, Glia Society (7)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/03/01

Abstract

Paul Cooijmans is an Independent Psychometitor and Administrator of the Glia Society, and Administrator of the Giga Society. He discusses: registration to the Glia Society; rationale for free membership; the need to submit the registration form if giving a qualifying score; members returning to the Glia Society if they have left; members expelled of the Glia Society; the importance of having the information entered in the registration form available to members of the Glia Society; the optional registration form information; prevent the sharing of members’ information to non-members; and the main ethic guiding the structure of the Glia Society.

Keywords: Glia Society, I.Q., I.Q. tests, intelligence, Paul Cooijmans, registration.

Conversation with Paul Cooijmans on Registration to the Glia Society: Administrator, Glia Society (7)

*Please see the references, footnotes, and citations, after the interview, respectively.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: “Registration: The Glia Society” (n.d.a) is the main page for consideration for registration to the Glia Society. Membership is free. Other high-I.Q. societies aren’t free. What is the typical rationale for charging membership fees among some high-I.Q. societies?

Paul Cooijmans[1],[2]*: In the past, the Glia Society had a fee for subscribing to the journal, which was sent by regular mail, and the fee just covered the cost of producing and mailing the booklet. Since the journal became digital-only, there has not been a fee any more. Other societies may have a fee for the same reason, or to cover costs of online infrastructure. In some cases, the fee serves also as a source of income for the person leading the society; this has never been the case with the Glia Society, or any of my societies.

Jacobsen: What is the rationale for free membership to the Glia Society?

Cooijmans: The cost of conducting the Glia Society is not so high that it warrants a fee. The cost of the society’s web location is technically born by my business I.Q. Tests for the High Range, which is appropriate since it is money from test fees.

Jacobsen: For new members, you emphasize the need to submit the registration form if giving a qualifying score or scores when, or around the time when, submitting it. How often is this instruction misunderstood or missed?

Cooijmans: As good as never any more, but in the past it happened that people submitted the registration form without providing a qualifying score, and then I had all that unusable form data, and had to contact people to tell them they needed to show proof of test scores, which they often failed to do. That is why I added that instruction to the form, and it works well.

A similar situation occurred with the test registration form on my tests web location; in the past, it could be reached via hyper references on the web location itself, and people were constantly submitting it without subsequently taking any tests, so that the database got polluted with useless data. So I removed the hyper references and only referred to the form from within the test files, and that works much better.

Jacobsen: How often are members returning to the Glia Society if they have left?

Cooijmans: That happens regularly, maybe a few times per year, but I am not keeping count of that specific event. In fact, it is because of returning members that I stopped reusing member numbers long ago. In the early years, I reused the member numbers of people who had left, because I am a frugal person and did not want those numbers to go down the drain. But I learnt that returning members sometimes like to have their old number back.

Jacobsen: Also, how often are members expelled of the Glia Society? What are the main reasons for the expulsion?

Cooijmans: Three times so far, in twenty-five years. Once for harassing other members, once for publishing a test item from an admission test with proposed solution and explanation, and once for fraudulently and without permission using the name “Giga Society”.

There are some latent expulsions too; people who leaked out members-only information but have not been identified yet, and people who committed fraud with tests for which I do not have hard proof yet.

Jacobsen: What is the importance of having the information entered in the registration form available to members of the Glia Society?

Cooijmans: Well, members can know who the other members are. Anonymous membership is expressly not allowed, so it is possible for any member to know who all of the others are. Thus it is also possible for any member to verify that those present on the society’s communication fora are indeed members, and report it to the Administrator if not so. And that is an everlasting battle; if you neglect this aspect, the fora get infested with non-members before you know it.

Jacobsen: What part of the optional registration form information do applicants tend to fill out the least?

Cooijmans: The web location uniform resource locator. Not too many people have personal web locations any more. I have the impression that the advent of social media, as well as the omnipresent contents management systems, have killed personal web locations, which had their heyday in the late 1990s and early 2000s when people were still able to write hypertext markup language by hand. It is even so that when people today see a genuine handmade web location, they may be observed making remarks like, “That looks like it has not been updated since the 1990s”. One wonders if they ever look at the source of a page (Ctrl-u) and see the difference between clean hypertext markup language and spaghetti code. One wonders if they appreciate that a proper web page is rendered in a tiny fraction of a second, while a contents management system takes several seconds to load a page because its contents has to be pulled from a database and produced by server-sided programming. One wonders if they realize that all that server activity and sending rubbish code from server to browser use extra energy and cause extra exhaust of harmful gasses into the plagued atmosphere of our planet.

Jacobsen: To prevent the sharing of members’ information to non-members, you state, “By submitting this form you agree to respect this state of affairs; that is, you certify you will not leak out information shared between members to non-members.” (Ibid.) What happens to members who break this social contract?

Cooijmans: They will be expelled when it becomes known who they are. So far, no such moles have been identified though.

Jacobsen: What is the main ethic guiding the structure of the Glia Society, the rules for the interactions between members, and the administrative duties of the Glia Society?

Cooijmans: These matters serve to have and keep a group truly selected at the stated intelligence level, to protect the privacy of members, and to prevent any perversion of these goals by a hostile takeover, such as via “democratic” procedures. I have seen these things go wrong in other societies and try to do better. As said before, I see parallels between the hostile undermining of I.Q. societies and that of societal institutions and industries at large.

References

Cooijmans, P. (n.d.a). Registration: The Glia Society. Retrieved from https://gliasociety.org/reg.html.

Footnotes

[1] Administrator, Giga Society; Administrator, Glia Society.

[2] Individual Publication Date: March 1, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/cooijmans-7; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2022: https://in-sightpublishing.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Norwegians of the High-Range Discussion with Erik Haereid, Eivind Olsen, and Tor Arne Jørgensen: Statistician & Actuarial Scientist; Chair, Mensa Norway; 2019 Genius of the Year – Europe, World Genius Directory (5)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/03/01

Abstract

Erik Haereid is an Actuarial Scientist and Statistician. Eivind Olsen is the Chair of Mensa Norway. Tor Arne Jørgensen is the 2019 Genius of the Year – Europe. They discuss: Nordic cultures; Norway’s birth rate; ‘White’ or Euro-North American racists; racists from across the pond; these same individuals within the borders of Norway; the typical view within the high-IQ circles; an Indigenous high-IQ group; people with higher IQs tend to have fewer kids; the Flynn Effect; smart women tend to have fewer children or none; and other directions.

Keywords: Erik Haereid, Eivind Olsen, IQ, Mensa, Mensa Norway, Norway, Tor Arne Jørgensen.

Norwegians of the High-Range Discussion with Erik Haereid, Eivind Olsen, and Tor Arne Jørgensen: Statistician &amp; Actuarial Scientist; Chair, Mensa Norway; 2019 Genius of the Year – Europe, World Genius Directory (5)

*Please see the references, footnotes, and citations, after the interview, respectively.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: What words best describe Nordic cultures?

Eivind Olsen[1]: Generally speaking, the Nordic culture(s) are somewhat egalitarian — where most people are considered to be equal, unless they’re not. Royalty is one area where that’s not the case (in Norway, Denmark and Sweden).

Erik Haereid[2]*: Hard working. Independent. Naïve. Trustful. Egalitarian and excessive bureaucratic political systems spiced with a dash of double standards and hidden xenophobia. A combination of pietistic order and romanticized nationalism draped in a suit of provincial stubbornness and pride. And beneath these dichotomic layers of infantile behavior and mature responsibility, there is an intrinsic naïve belief in the goodness of mankind.

Tor Arne Jørgensen[3],[4]: Different, neutral, and innovative according to statistical poles. A healthy exterior characterized by an insufficient wish aimed at self-development ensured further by a steadfast and rock-hard economy and efficient institutions aimed at technological innovations. Furthermore, the Nordic Permian position is probably explanatory through its geographical imprint. Not only a barren and frozen landscape but housing a hardy people who sadly sit on their own personal mountaintops and share their interests by and for their own conceivable pleasure.

A historical population within its real-life monopoly state, whereby covered and insured through acquisitions furthered by philanthropic eccentricities fueled in the futile hope of saving an already lost existence by common front to stop global deforestation and beyond with their democratizing intensities, a part where joy, despair and boredom go hand in hand. The Nordic embrace that is postulated only to covers the rest of the world washed over by its cool exterior and shady appearance.

Jacobsen: In spite of the social and health indexes of a healthy society, Norway’s birth rate, as with many developed countries, is below 2.1 or the theoretical replacement level. Its most recent tallied level is 1.53. It’s not Japan bad, but it’s not great. What is the national conversation about this? Countries simply cannot make up the deaths with more immigration indefinitely. It can be a threat to social stability with destructive movements looking to capitalize on demonizing immigrants and to social welfare programs dependent on a productive younger population, especially ages 25 to 54 — more in the actuarial realm and expertise of Erik.

Olsen: There are probably multiple reasons for the low birth rate. I’m guessing that economics play a part (raising multiple children has a cost). People might want to wait until later in life before they have children — and might eventually realise that they have waited too long. We’ve also received sex education, and have good access to prophylactics, which probably leads to fewer “accidental” pregnancies. A society does need a certain amount of productive (as well as
reproductive) citizens. If we look back in time, people needed to have more children since not all of them could be expected to grow up. We also didn’t have the same social security we do today, so people needed to have kids so someone could take care of them when they grew old.

Haereid: “Make more children!”, our prime minister said a couple of years ago. I don’t expect it to have effect in the long run.

It’s an unfortunate combination having an aversion against too many immigrants and an aversion against getting and raising children; it’s a cataclysmic consequence of developing welfare states. Such attitudes are built on romantic beliefs in development; technology and eternal life. It’s like “the only person I am not in conflict with is me”, and this becomes the social benchmark. “To what do I need other people?”; a social dystopia and a narcissistic utopia.

It’s a substantial increase in the population for people older than 45 years, from 1990 to 2021, compared to the increase among those younger than 45. The population growth in the group 45–79 is about 57% from 1990 to 2021! The growth is only 12% in the group 0–44, and 35% for those older than 80 years. The population distribution between age groups is approximately 56% (0–44), 39% (45–79) and 5% (older than 80).

There are some net immigrations and some birth surplus, and there are not expected a lot more net birth nor immigration in the next couple of decades, and the growth in population are expected in the older group. There are about 18–19% immigrants in Norway today, and 20% of these are born in Norway with immigrant parents.

The xenophobia factor will always be apparent in societies with mixed populations, like in most western countries today. Statistics will of course prevent and reduce some of the irrational critics, but the harsh group of haters give a damn in statistics. I think the most important task is to provide statistics and information about ongoing changes to the people. If some exploits the system, independent if they are immigrants or ethnic Norwegians, the society has to deal with that and contribute to get everyone into activities. Assimilation is not about making everyone similar, but allowing everyone to be different together. The genetic similarity between humans is about 99,9%, and that should be an inspiration to nurture and respect our differences.

Jørgensen: Our former Prime Minister Erna Solberg went on national television and tried to influence the people to produce more citizens. We were and are still not able to maintain a positive development according to the birth rate of 2.1

It’s been a few years now, but a noticeable change is yet to be discovered. As immigration goes it cannot replace the growth necessary for the positive development of the population output. If this were to be the case, it would undoubtedly have been, and as one sees in Sweden that ethnic-related conflicts have escalated to conditions that are unfortunate to ensure a stable democratic development. According to what is presented in the media, the government in Norway will not allowed for that to happen here I am sure, as we have strict regulations on who receives a residence permit on the right basis, insofar as family reunification is concerned and more… If we are to maintain a healthy welfare system and at the same time hope for a prosperous economic future, whereby we the citizens can all benefit strongly, a strict regulation must be advisable at all levels- of social structure.

Jacobsen: ‘White’ or Euro-North American racists, typically, stoke fear and prejudice, and territoriality, about Western Europe, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, and America, being taken over by non-‘whites’ or non-European heritage peoples with the implicit claim of very low melanin levels in skin, generally speaking, associated with historical-territorial claims to post-colonial settlement nation-states — Canada, Australia, New Zealand, America(, and South Africa) — and Western European nation-states. These are, as usual, falsified racist lies, not simply for the basis on the non-scientific pseudo-taxonomical term ‘race’ and concept of ‘races.’ It’s not a term validated in scientific literature, by and large, and more reflects the sociological — so artificial — categories of the individual purporting to speak for their ‘actualization’ or reification. Anyhow, insofar as has been documented, the only known Indigenous group in Western Europe is the Saami (previously Laplanders). They live in currently drawn-out parts of Norway and other Nordic territorial boundaries too. They can be traced back to 6,000 years ago, which matches some of the longest-lived extant Indigenous civilizations today. Indigenous Europeans go back along time. What is the treatment and general knowledge about the Saami?

Olsen: Disclaimer: I’m do not, as far as I know, have a Saami background myself, so my reply here is based on my perspective and understanding. It won’t necessarily be universally valid. I think Norwegians in general know that Saami exist, but often just think of the reindeer herders in the northern part of Norway and forget that most Saami are not reindeer herders. The Saami are a diverse group, with multiple different Saami languages (from 3 to 11, I believe, depending on who you ask and how you count). Since the 18th century (at least, possibly longer), the church were campaigning to convert the “heathen” Saami to Christianity, and in that process did their
“best” to eradicate Saami culture and language — a process which was continued by the Norwegian state/government, and which to some extent has continued up until more recent times.

Haereid: The knowledge about the Saami people is poor but growing. The main TV-channel in Norway marked the Saami’s national day 6. February, and I think this is the first time they have done so into this extent. That’s an improvement.

In general, I think the Nordic people respect the Saami more than ever, based on knowledge about their culture. But it’s a long way to go.

Jørgensen: As far as the Sami people are concerned, the knowledge is consequently set up. We in Norway are well acquainted with the origins of the Sami people and the injustice that has been inflicted on them during the course of centuries. This dates back to the early 13th century and onwards well into the 16th century with reference to the persecutions as a result of the rumors of sorcery, shamanism, witchcraft, whereby the result is a witch hunt as recognized on a global scale, these persecutions were set forth by both the official ecclesiastical and the official Norwegian government, all the way to more recent times, now by failed assimilation policies imposed on the northernmost counties and there indigenous population.

The Alta uprising in 1981 that we who have lived a little remember all too well from the national news reports. The recognition of the Sami Parliament’s origins in a newer sense in 1989, the Sami National Day on 6th February and so on. The road to acceptance and recognition of the Sami people has been a tortuous path to walk, a sad testimony and national stain inflicted upon the real Norwegian origin, and not just a steel acquisition, whereby murder, oppression and deportation generally accepted procedure set forth by the Norwegian state. Recently decorated with a vague public apology from government officials far too little, far too late for such a wonderful and proud people.

Jacobsen: How do Norwegians tend to view the, rather loud, racists from across the pond in North America?

Olsen: We shake our heads in disbelief when we hear about blatant racism in the USA. Not that we necessarily understand or interpret the situation in the right way.

Haereid: Norwegians became angry after the George Floyd killing. Most people can’t believe that such an event can happen in a modern, civilized democracy. There is racism in Norway, obviously, and most verbal and subtle. But the violence in the Floyd-case, and some other cases where the American authorities have expressed irrational destructive behavior, is disturbing; it’s a tendency. One mad man; that happens. But when the incarnation of the Law treats people like that, and this is not one case, it is distressing.

Talking about the American racists in general, it depends on who you ask. Some get angry and emotional, and a few agree with them. Most are indifferent. I think some look at it as a part of a movement growing in USA, not at least in the wake of president Donald Trump. He pushed a hidden North-American button. There is something wrong with the distribution of goods.

Jørgensen: Land grabbing of tribe property, the oppressive condition put in place by the early settlers. The near extinction of the total Native American tribe community, furthermore the acquisition of forced labor through the triangle trade, as regards to the African American community, etc… are hereby far too much to deal with at this point. Briefly referring to Donald Trump and his movement, attempt to disabling of the entire democratic foundation by inspiring to attack the U.S. Capital building, nothing more is needed, furthermore the refusal of students to go to school during the decades from the early 20th century onwards.

Police assault and lots more, this for me must be a separate isolated topic, as this is one of my special fields, so one must categorize these events regards to both national and global spectrum for a later interview…

Jacobsen: Although, every country has them. What is the view of these same individuals within the borders of Norway?

Olsen: In general, we like to believe that we’re not racists ourselves. In reality, we as a society have our fair share of racists, somewhat-racists (“I’m not racist, but…”), and people being tarred
with the same brush as racists (“He votes for that political party, so he must be racist”). We have Trump-supporters, and we have “woke BLM-supporters”, and we have many people who are neither. My personal opinion? Racism (and other discrimination) is a tricky subject, and
not everyone agrees on what it is and what it isn’t. For example, some people will claim that racism is a one-way street — that it can only go in one direction (“only whites can be racists, and only towards blacks” — sorry for the choice of words, btw.), but that is a definition I do *not* agree with.

Haereid: Unfortunately, I think many Norwegians are quite indifferent to such people, including own racists. The internal pond is made of mountains, woods, miles and self-centered minds. I think this is one of the negative features with respect to prosperity; the rich don’t care unless they have to pay tax. The racists are usually not in their garden. I think there were a lot of empathy after 22/7 2011 (the ABB-killings). But after some months it disappeared.

Jørgensen: It is perceived as sad as it is, that people should treat each other in this way whereby the difference in skin color or otherwise should judge a person to status of less valuable, how on earth have we not come any further than that, look at what history has displayed with regards to the injustice toward peoples of different skin color. If certain elements of society are to keep up this mind-bending madness, nothing will ever change. Yes, we have this problem in Norway as well, and this is being cracked down on hard by both the general public and the police, hate crime is thus being judged extra harshly in this country and rightfully so.

The terror attack of 22nd of July 2011 on the innocent political youth at Utøya is a grim memory of this white supremacy movement. Populist riots in such a state must be eradicated any way possible. We the Norwegians in a big way as far as history goes been a big part of the disgraced also with regards to the slave trade also called the triangular trade during the 16th and 17th century, a historical record not to be proud of.

Jacobsen: Indeed, the high-IQ communities have them, even well-known ones. What is the typical view within the high-IQ circles?

Olsen: I have the impression that the typical view is pretty similar
to the rest of society.

Haereid: I don’t know the typical, current view among high-IQ people. I am hibernating at the moment.

Jørgensen: It is probably from what I mean and believe, that certain utterances are allowed, but where set outer boundaries are broken, the relevant elements are excluded. The freedom to express oneself as one wishes does not come without restrictions and fortunately one gets to say, when direct violations that move outside the direct events in question and whereby the focus is directed towards one’s ethnic origin are by that fact misplaced. What is in these unreasonable borderlands should be removed to ensure that everyone is accepted regardless of their heritage roots.

Jacobsen: Is anyone aware of an Indigenous high-IQ group or even individuals? I would love to interview them.

Olsen: I haven’t heard of any such high-IQ groups. Mensa is open to all who qualify, regardless of “race”, creed or religion, and I think most (all?) other groups also have similar principles. I know we have members with various ethnic backgrounds, but it’s not something we keep track of.

Haereid: I am not aware of any.

Jørgensen: I do not know, I’m sorry, but maybe Eivind or Erik have some more information to hand out here.

Jacobsen: Why do people with higher IQs tend to have fewer kids?

Olsen: I’m guessing it’s caused by many of the same reasons we have
low birth rates in society. The same factors probably apply to an even
greater extent.

Haereid: The short answer is: Because they (we) are emotionally immature, and/or want to spend their (our) time on pure cognitive, intelligent practices more than developing advanced social skills. This doesn’t mean that people with children are emotionally and otherwise mature, or that people without children are necessarily immature.

Jørgensen: The basis for having fewer children of those with higher IQ than the average is based on higher education in anticipation of better paid jobs. Moreover, career seeking whereby the intense desire to secure their own need for an opportunity into the history books has become for me in some degree an absolute. If one can spend time on self-sustaining activities, where disruptive elements can affect one’s outcome on success, then it becomes decisive for the possible conditions one undertakes.

This is summed up by the fact that the importance of one’s own success overshadows the need for happiness through the acquisition of one’s and for one’s own offspring.

Jacobsen: With the Flynn Effect in a modest stagnancy and decline, though with decades of increase over time before, is there a potential relationship between better nutrition, wider educational access, and improved equality for all — e.g., men and women, for higher average IQs and lower birth rates? Some have attempted preliminary research into test scores and GDP, for example.

Olsen: I wouldn’t be surprised.

Haereid: Yes, I believe so. Humankind is in a peak of its cognitive potential, and achievements are culturally prioritized. In this individual and collective struggle, we easily forget that we are mentally and physically limited as species. Our minds allow us to create ideas about who we are and what we can do, without any prior humbleness that make us get frequently in contact with whom we are; we tend to think we can achieve something we can’t within the timeframe we draw. We will profit on striving for a more balanced development. An example is the production of the neurotransmitter dopamine, which is increased when we experience success, which we feel when we achieve something. It’s like getting a reward. In lack of alcohol or heroin, which obviously destroy our bodies, we use sex, prosperity, titles, chocolate, creating heroes, run and so on to attain the level of dopamine we feel we need. But that level normalizes on an increasing higher level. The problem with dopamine is the lack of it, and that level depends of how much “normal” has become, which is a function of how much pleasure we expose ourselves to. The abstinence factor, the pain, will appear immediately after we stop achieving and celebrating, and endure until the body accepts the lower level of achievements as sufficient. Raising children is more pain than pleasure, I have heard. And this alternating activity between ups and downs competes with the abundance of opportunities the modern unlimited world provides and will provide almost everyone.

Jørgensen: I have personally too little information on the subject, but I think that an improved and healthier lifestyle, less disruption from outside forces and to some extent negative stress, will affect most of us in a positive way according to mentioned better general physical condition and mental health. It seems obvious to me that this should be the norm, but in an age of widespread use of brain-dead mental stimuli, acquired through watching people eat food on YouTube, bloggers talking solely about mental exhaustion through loneliness and boredom, whereby their personal feelings are being exposed on social media in the hope of huge financial gain makes itself very prevalent.

The creative and or intellectual measuring bar that could be characterized by maintaining a previous high standard has now become so low that one simply stumbles across it on flat ground. What personally irritates me the most is that now the more brain-dead material that is presented, the greater the financial earnings, further fueled by a tsunami of “likes” and words of praise for its impressive and innovative content. I find myself torn between the following facts, whether in total belief as to positive social structure input, or in total despair of the foolish ingenuity on a global scale.

Jacobsen: Particularly smart women tend to have fewer children or none, there seems to be multiple factors playing into this. For one, as stated by many smart heterosexual or bisexual women, heterosexual or bisexual men don’t like smart women for long-term partnering as much on average, though only pluralistically anecdotal and women speaking about men rather than asking the men, too. For two, they’re busy with cognitively demanding jobs or educations, which take time and effort away from potential family formation or even supersede any interest in children with or without a partner. For three, there are many women who simply reject the stereotype of women’s innate natalist inclinations; some have absolutely zero desire: Deal with it. Do some of these analyses seem fair and reasonable? What other factors might be at play here? I realize the irony of four guys talking about this. What about smart men? What has been the experience for the three of you, e.g., Tor is a parent of two?

Olsen: Previously, society expected women to limit their ambitions to “breed” and “stay at home”. That is no longer the case. Not every woman has “produce offspring” on top of their bucket list.. I keep hearing how men supposedly only want “dumber” women, but that’s as you
mention anecdotal, and coming from women. I can’t remember having heard *any* man say that they want to find a “dumb” woman — but I can’t say that it never happens at all. Personally, Since we’re sharing anecdotes: I’m a heterosexual male, father of two. I’ve really only been attracted to women with at least half a brain — ideally a fully functioning one at that. My exes, and my current partner, have all been on the right side of the Bell curve (i.e. I’m convinced that
they’ve all had an IQ of 120 or higher (with standard deviation 15), and I know my partner is “Mensa-material” (she’s a member). No, I don’t know the exact numbers, and the numbers aren’t important. What matters is that the person has a brain and can use it, and that we feel like we’re living on the same planet (so to speak).

Haereid: Women want emotionally mature, charming, confident, masculine and strong men, optimized relative to their own self-esteem and social and sexual value. Traditionally, women think of their future children’s welfare, when looking for a lifelong partner. Exaggerated but to a certain degree true: Men look for sexual satisfaction when they choose women; women are traditionally pickier choosing men than men are when they choose women.

It’s something about men feeling unsecure when women beat them intellectually. This is linked to archetypical features. Men do not only provide food and security, but also inventions and technical solutions.

Raising children takes much of women’s time during their “best” years. I think smart women are more selfish in a more modern way, and want to achieve something, using their intellectual capacity. Getting and raising children are not only time-consuming, but also a risk; you depend upon the other half’s genes. You can predict something, but maybe only 10–20% of all the hidden genetic stuff. What if you get a child, you are not happy with? Then the moral issues take place, and invade a brain that you instead could use on evolving yourself.

I think the unconditional love “concept” is real in all of us, also in intelligent women. If you get close to another person, and especially your own flesh and blood, you can’t escape feeling strong love for that person independent of what or who this organic creature is. You can repress it, ignore it, but never get rid of it.

Before you choose to have children or not, you don’t have any; you are not in the condition of feeling unconditional love to your child, only having ideas about it. And our rational behavior doesn’t take such irrational emotions into account. Especially when your brain is filled with intellectual opportunities.

I have been in one fairly long (ten years) adult relationship with a woman, but are not in any now. Maybe I am too selfish, and probably introvert.

Jørgensen: Strong women tend to intimidate men with their intellectual superiority, their regulations governing the household with an iron grip. I easily see that their interests in self-realization can easily be a hindrance for family life, whereby a weaker male partner may have to give into their premises in favor of the strong female partner with reference to stereotypical career woman. For my part, I have now been so lucky that 22 years ago I found the most beautiful woman in the world, and who incredibly has endured me and all my extremities all this time.

I am eternally grateful for this.

My two boys or my two prides are knowingly set to this world of pure love as the desire for self-enrichment through the search for ever new knowledge, has been occasionally pushed aside and created space for emotional based care and parental feelings. The influence that my lady has had on me as an egocentric logic seeker has enriched me in more ways than I care to mention… The best in my life has sought me out and together with my close ones it is again time to seek towards new horizons in the quest for new and possible undiscovered knowledge just waiting to be plucked like ripe fruit from the tree of knowledge itself.

Jacobsen: What other directions are of interest to you? I think we can expand the conversation grounds to more Norwegians now.

Olsen: Other topics? I really like talking about Amiga computers, or why The Last Ninja was the best game ever on the Commodore 64. 🙂

Haereid: Why is little Norway the dominant nation in winter Olympics? And generally, in sport? What about more cognitive activities like art and science?

Libido and drives versus control and cognition. What is unconditional love? Is it possible to learn to like people? Is this necessary to establish civilized peace? Do we try to be civilized when it’s impossible to be? If so, why can’t we just be savage? Is UN and such institutions based on some powerful dictatorship that profit on creating illusions about humans being civilized? Or is the human idea about world peace sincere; embracing everyone?

What is convincement?

What are thoughts? What are perceptions, and how do they appear? What are emotions, and what kind of role do they play? Which social role do emotions like guilt, shame, anxiety, anger, happiness and interest, to mention some, have?

Jørgensen: I have previous mentioned in this interview of topics to be debated forward according to themes about North America and settler mentalities, Native American wars, African American exploitation, and segregation policies with regards to the 21st century. Also, looking forward to getting more people to share thoughts and opinions with.

Footnotes

[1] Eivind Olsen is the current chair of Mensa Norway. He has scored “135 or higher” (SD15) on the test used by Mensa Norway. He has also previously been tested with WISC-R and Raven’s. He recently took the MOCA test and aced it. When he’s not busy herding cats, he works in IT. He sometimes spends time with family and friends.

Eivind Olsen is a member of Mensa Norway since 2014, having filled various roles since then (chair of Mensa Bergen regional group, national test coordinator, deputy board member, and now chair).

He was born in Bergen, Norway, in 1976, but has lived in a few other places in Norway, including military service in the far north of the country.

Since he got bored at school and didn’t have any real idea what he wanted to do, he took vocational school where he studied electronics repair. He has worked in a different field ever since (IT operations).

He is currently residing in Bergen, Norway, with his significant other, 2+2 offspring, 2 cats and a turtle.

[2] Erik Haereid has been a member of Mensa since 2013, and is among the top scorers on several of the most credible IQ-tests in the unstandardized HRT-environment. He is listed in the World Genius Directory. He is also a member of several other high IQ Societies.

Erik, born in 1963, grew up in OsloNorway, in a middle class home at Grefsen nearby the forest, and started early running and cross country skiing. After finishing schools he studied mathematics, statistics and actuarial science at the University of Oslo. One of his first glimpses of math-skills appeared after he got a perfect score as the only student on a five hour math exam in high school.

He did his military duty in His Majesty The King’s Guard (Drilltroppen)).

Impatient as he is, he couldn’t sit still and only studying, so among many things he worked as a freelance journalist in a small news agency. In that period, he did some environmental volunteerism with Norges Naturvernforbund (Norwegian Society for the Conservation of Nature), where he was an activist, freelance journalist and arranged ‘Sykkeldagen i Oslo’ twice (1989 and 1990) as well as environmental issues lectures. He also wrote some crime short stories in A-Magasinet (Aftenposten (one of the main newspapers in Norway), the same paper where he earned his runner up (second place) in a nationwide writing contest in 1985. He also wrote several articles in different newspapers, magazines and so on in the 1980s and early 1990s.

He earned an M.Sc. degree in Statistics and Actuarial Sciences in 1991, and worked as an actuary novice/actuary from 1987 to 1995 in several Norwegian Insurance companies. He was the Academic Director (1998-2000) of insurance at the BI Norwegian Business School (1998-2000), Manager (1997-1998) of business insurance, life insurance, and pensions and formerly Actuary (1996-1997) at Nordea in Oslo Area, Norway, a self-employed Actuary Consultant (1996-1997), an Insurance Broker (1995-1996) at Assurance Centeret, Actuary (1991-1995) at Alfa Livsforsikring, novice Actuary (1987-1990) at UNI Forsikring.

In 1989 he worked in a project in Dallas with a Texas computer company for a month incorporating a Norwegian pension product into a data system. Erik is specialized in life insurance and pensions, both private and business insurances. From 1991 to 1995 he was a main part of developing new life insurance saving products adapted to bank business (Sparebanken NOR), and he developed the mathematics behind the premiums and premium reserves.

He has industry experience in accounting, insurance, and insurance as a broker. He writes in his IQ-blog the online newspaper Nettavisen. He has personal interests among other things in history, philosophy and social psychology.

In 1995, he moved to Aalborg in Denmark because of a Danish girl he met. He worked as an insurance broker for one year, and took advantage of this experience later when he developed his own consultant company.

In Aalborg, he taught himself some programming (Visual Basic), and developed an insurance calculation software program which he sold to a Norwegian Insurance Company. After moving to Oslo with his girlfriend, he was hired as consultant by the same company to a project that lasted one year.

After this, he became the Manager of business insurance in the insurance company Norske Liv. At that time he had developed and nurtured his idea of establishing an actuarial consulting company, and he did this after some years on a full-time basis with his actuarial colleague. In the beginning, the company was small. He had to gain money, and worked for almost two years as an Academic Director of insurance at the BI Norwegian Business School.

Then the consultant company started to grow, and he quitted BI and used his full time in NIA (Nordic Insurance Administration). This was in 1998/99, and he has been there since.

NIA provides actuarial consulting services within the pension and life insurance area, especially towards the business market. They was one of the leading actuarial consulting companies in Norway through many years when Defined Benefit Pension Plans were on its peak and companies needed evaluations and calculations concerning their pension schemes and accountings. With the less complex, and cheaper, Defined Contribution Pension Plans entering Norway the last 10-15 years, the need of actuaries is less concerning business pension schemes.

Erik’s book from 2011, Benektelse og Verdighet, contains some thoughts about our superficial, often discriminating societies, where the virtue seems to be egocentrism without thoughts about the whole. Empathy is lacking, and existential division into “us” and “them” is a mental challenge with major consequences. One of the obstacles is when people with power – mind, scientific, money, political, popularity – defend this kind of mind as “necessary” and “survival of the fittest” without understanding that such thoughts make the democracies much more volatile and threatened. When people do not understand the genesis of extreme violence like school killings, suicide or sociopathy, asking “how can this happen?” repeatedly, one can wonder how smart man really is. The responsibility is not limited to let’s say the parents. The responsibility is everyone’s. The day we can survive, mentally, being honest about our lives and existence, we will take huge leaps into the future of mankind.

[3] Tor Arne Jørgensen is a member of 50+ high IQ societies, including World Genius Directory, NOUS High IQ Society, 6N High IQ Society just to name a few. He has several IQ scores above 160+ sd15 among high range tests like Gift/Gene Verbal, Gift/Gene Numerical of Iakovos Koukas and Lexiq of Soulios.

Tor Arne was also in 2019, nominated for the World Genius Directory 2019 Genius of the Year – Europe. He is the only Norwegian to ever have achieved this honor. He has also been a contributor to the Genius Journal Logicon, in addition to being the creater of toriqtests.com, where he is the designer of now eleven HR-tests of both verbal/numerical varient.

His further interests are related to intelligence, creativity, education developing regarding gifted students. Tor Arne has an bachelor`s degree in history and a degree in Practical education, he works as a teacher within the following subjects: History, Religion, and Social Studies.

[4] Individual Publication Date: March 1, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/norway-5; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Paul Cooijmans on the Frequently Asked Questions About the Glia Society: Administrator, Glia Society (6)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/02/22

Abstract

Paul Cooijmans is an Independent Psychometitor and Administrator of the Glia Society, and Administrator of the Giga Society. He discusses: Frequently asked questions; not attempting to force one’s way into a high-IQ society; other patterns of illegitimate action to try to enter into high-I.Q. societies; Glia Society’s admission policy; tests accepted for admission; the minimum requirements for a test to be “valid in the high range”; the number of high-I.Q. societies focused more on quantity; “a lack or absence of psychometric expertise”; the prime examples of the void in psychometric expertise; the prime examples of profound ineptitude; false impressions from rejection or exclusion of take-home tests by some high-I.Q. societies; take-home tests; and the rarer types of articles submitted to Thoth.

Keywords: frequently asked questions, Glia Society, I.Q., I.Q. tests, intelligence, Paul Cooijmans, take-home tests.

Conversation with Paul Cooijmans on the Frequently Asked Questions About the Glia Society: Administrator, Glia Society (6)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: “Frequently asked questions The Glia Society” (n.d.a) contains three questions and three answers. The first question asks, “I am not able to qualify for high IQ societies but still feel I can make valuable contributions to society. How do I get IQ societies to accept me?” (Ibid.) You deconstruct and concisely answer the question while correcting assumptions in it. To expand on the first question (the one at the top of the web page), is a higher I.Q. indicative of a higher potential to contribute to society? So, if an individual can “do that perfectly outside of the I.Q. societies, via universities, science, business, politics, and so on,” (Ibid.) can one have a higher potential to do that more if they have a higher I.Q.? In other words, they can contribute more, theoretically, if they have proven Glia Society level or higher intelligence and take part in business, politics, science, universities, and so forth.

Paul Cooijmans[1],[2]*: Yes, I am certain that persons of higher I.Q. levels have greater potential to contribute to society, and are in practice indeed contributing more. I am then talking about the full range of intelligence, not necessarily about the situation within the high range, as it is still being studied whether intelligence can be meaningfully measured at all there. I mention this because I know many stare themselves blind on nuances within the high range (“Can I contribute to [this or that field] if my I.Q. is only 143? Or should I try a few more tests to see if I can score over 150?”) but really it is differences within the range 60-140, maybe 55-145, that determine people’s functioning. I dare not say with certainty that even higher I.Q.’s add something extra, although they may.

Having said that, I should add that “intellectual” types of work are hugely overpaid nowadays compared to manual labour, and that is a problem. This gap has grown over time, and is related to the takeover of all vital institutions by certain species of intellectuals, who despise physical work.

Jacobsen: You mentioned, in the first answer, not attempting to force one’s way into a high-IQ society. There was a famous case of Paul Maxim trying to get into the Mega Society, for instance. As others have stated to me, though anecdotal, this is a pattern in the high-I.Q. societies, or, more properly, in the attempts to get into particular high-I.Q. societies by people in and out of the high-I.Q. communities. What is the ethic behind these efforts, as such?

Cooijmans: I think people want to derive social status from belonging to groups with very high admission standards. For illustration, it has happened that someone tried to join the Giga Society with screen shots of online games that reported I.Q.’s over 200 (without even containing the name of the candidate) saying something like, “You really have to admit me now because I have already told all my friends that I am a Giga Society member, please please please do not make me look like a fool before my friends.” That betrays the kind of motivation of such people, although most of them are not that explicit about it.

Jacobsen: What are other patterns of illegitimate action to try to enter into high-I.Q. societies? What are some of the famous cases known to you? You have a long history in this world, not many can stake that claim of longevity and activity.

Cooijmans: A pattern that I have observed is, for instance, very repeatedly sending the same type of “proof” of qualification, of course some test result not on the list of accepted tests. What has also occurred more than once is demanding entrance based on a mainstream psychological test score way beyond the usual ceiling of the test; most typically this is some form of the Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scales, and apparently, some psychologists are in such cases willing to provide reports with absurdly extrapolated scores, like way over I.Q. 200. I am quite certain that some people are fully aware of the contents of the test and its intended solutions, and practise extensively before taking the test, and there may also be cases where the report itself is fraudulent.

I think it is not ethical to name names of these individuals as they are mostly teenagers when starting this behaviour and stop later on when growing up. Sometimes there is also a psychiatric background.

The most common way to force oneself into a society is cheating when taking a high-range test. Those responsible for the unauthorized spreading of test answers, however evil, are not necessarily the ones trying to enter I.Q. societies, so in the context of this question I need not discuss the former. “Creative” ways of “entering” societies are to forge a membership certificate using a specimen that an actual member showed publicly on a social medium, or to add oneself to the listed members in the society’s entry in an online do-it-yourself encyclopedia. I even suspect that such entries are sometimes created purposely by people in order to put themselves in and pose as members.

Jacobsen: The second question asks, “Why is the Glia Society so liberal in its admission requirements, in that it accepts a lot of take-home tests rather then [sic] just official standard tests?” (Ibid.) As you state, the Glia Society’s admission policy is more stringent than other high-I.Q. societies. Let’s expand on this, why are “mainly regular tests” or “regular psychological tests” without much validity below I.Q. 70 and above I.Q. 130, presumably on a standard deviation of 15?

Cooijmans: Regarding below I.Q. 70, people in that range, and especially under I.Q. 60, tend not to be able to take tests in the usual format, and their I.Q.’s are mostly assessed in other ways, such as by observation and interview in direct personal contact. There are special tests for that. And yes, I know there are people who will now bark, “What?! Are you serious?! Why would people below a certain I.Q. not be able to take tests in the usual way?!” These are the ones that deny the real-world relevance of intelligence and I.Q., the ones who claim that someone of I.Q. 65 can just as well be a mathematics professor as someone of I.Q. 165.

The lack of high-range validity of most regular tests is due to the absence or lack of truly difficult problems in those tests. If you include such problems, you may get validity in the high range, but at the expense of violating certain paradigms of the current academic climate, wherein it is unthinkable to create tests and publish data that show significant sex differences in important behavioural variables like intelligence. And on really hard problems for mental ability, there is one sex that does better than the other. This taboo is hidden by leaving out such problems.

Another way in which sex differences in mental ability are hidden in science is by using childhood data when studying sex differences; in childhood, the later-to-develop adult differences do not show up because the hormones of puberty have not done their work yet. In fact, before puberty, girls mature faster than boys, so that childhood studies yield a biased result compared to the state of affairs among adults, favouring girls. The use of childhood studies to “debunk” sex differences in mental ability is a form of scientific fraud.

I suspect that a mainstream scientist who published data on high-range mental tests like I do would be banned for life from the academic world.

Jacobsen: How do tests accepted for admission (Cooijmans, n.d.b) to the Glia Society tap into its minimum required I.Q., and higher, better than the regular intelligence tests?

Cooijmans: By containing sufficiently hard problems.

Jacobsen: What are the minimum requirements for a test to be “valid in the high range” (Cooijmans, n.d.a)?

Cooijmans: When it comes to high-range validity in the psychometric sense, “valid in the high range” means that the test has positive loading on the general factor “g” in the range beyond the 99th centile, so within the top 1 % of the general population. But validity alone is not enough; robustness (resistance to score inflation) is just as important, as is mere hardness.

If “beyond the 99th centile, so within the top 1 % of the general population” is not precise enough, one may read this as “whatever one defines as the high range”, or, when it comes to society admission, “around the intended pass level”. Of course, a test never starts measuring exactly at a given level like the 99th centile; high-range tests typically have a threshold somewhere around the 90th centile but more than half of the scores exceed the 99th centile.

Jacobsen: If you had to estimate the number of high-I.Q. societies focused more on quantity, or growth of membership, than quality of membership, what percent or ratio of extant high-I.Q. societies fit into this identification?

Cooijmans: That is difficult for me to answer because obviously I avoid looking at such societies, if only to prevent vomiting over the keyboard of my electronic computer. I can only make a rough estimation: the majority of them.

Jacobsen: Why is there “a lack or absence of psychometric expertise” in many high-I.Q. societies, even “a deep incompetence” (Ibid.)?

Cooijmans: I imagine the following reasons exist for this: People who feel called to start I.Q. societies tend not to be experts in psychometrics. For instance, when Mensa, the largest I.Q. society, was conceived, its founders thought they were selecting at the level of 1 in 6000. Later they found out it was only 1 in 50. This was related in an issue of the Mensa journal, possibly in the 1990s, in an article about the early history of that society. In more recent years, it has been obvious that some I.Q. societies are founded on a whim by people who were not able to qualify for existing societies, and without having any knowledge of psychometrics.

Then, when people are delegated the task of admissions officer or test psychologist in a society, those who offer to take on this job tend not to be bona fide experts in psychometrics and tend not to be interested in a strict admission policy. Some seem to have “liberal” inclinations and really just want to please and admit anyone regardless of their intelligence level. They secretly despise selecting by intelligence, and it may even be that, when becoming active in I.Q. societies, they did not fully realize they were getting involved in something that went against their moral principles. On the other hand, they may have joined purposely to sabotage the selection procedure and destroy the elitist nature of the society. Such infiltration and corruption of policies would mirror the undermining of democracy that we have seen in Western societies in general, where cultural Marxists have gradually occupied all institutions, resulting in exceedingly liberal immigration and other destructive policies.

Early examples of lack of expertise were observed by me in the first few years of my Mensa membership, when I had some correspondence with the test psychologists of the Netherlandic and International branches, and had to conclude, to my shock, that they were incompetent.

Another reason I believe to be behind the silly admissions policies of many societies is that a strict admission policy, unfortunately, produces fewer female members the higher one sets the pass level. This can be countered by accepting tests without validity in the high range, as on those tests, the possible scores in the high range are meaningless (random, having huge error margins), thus containing more females as well as more unqualified people.

Jacobsen: What are the prime examples of the void in psychometric expertise?

Cooijmans: A list of accepted tests containing tests that can not discriminate, have no validity, in the range where the society’s pass level resides. A list of accepted tests containing scores based on long outdated norms (Raven’s Advanced Progressive Matrices is notorious for that). A list of accepted tests that appears to be more or less copied from other societies (which betrays a lack of independent research). A list of accepted tests that is not updated and adapted based on feedback from the evaluation of incoming members; that is, the functioning of the admission tests is not monitored by assessing whether the members who qualify through those tests are indeed at the required level.

Also, testing potential members with tests that require supervision, but without supervising the test administration. So: simply sending the test by mail and letting the candidate supervise and time oneself (supervised tests tend to be timed, for practical reasons). This causes serious problems in case it concerns a test with heavy loading on vocabulary and knowledge while prohibiting reference aids; candidates can then cheat easily by looking things up. It also causes problems because the self-reported time taken may be off. Mensa International used to do this in countries where they did not have a testing infrastructure in place; early members of Mensa Singapore have told me they received the Raven test by mail from Mensa International and took it unsupervised and self-timed. The International Society for Philosophical Enquiry, too, has a long history of testing for willingness-to-commit-fraud rather than intelligence. Wait, I have to clean my keyboard now.

Jacobsen: Following from the previous question, what are the prime examples of profound ineptitude?

Cooijmans: Hm, I should have waited with cleaning my keyboard I see. Here we go again. An early example took place in the early 1990s after joining Mensa, when I published an article in their journal in which I explained that, when selecting the top 2 % on each of a number of tests as Mensa did, one is really selecting more than 2 % of the population because of the imperfect correlation between the tests, in other words, because the top 2 % scorers on the respective tests have only a partial overlap. To my dismay, the society’s test psychologist replied in the journal, denying me in words that betrayed that he was not able to comprehend the reasoning set forth in the previous sentence. Ineptitude does not get more profound than that (incidentally, I had to look up the word “ineptitude” in order to answer this question).

Other examples of ineptitude I have observed, in people dealing with high-range test and I.Q. societies:

Publishing score histograms consisting of a mixture of first attempts and (multiple) retests, without explicitly mentioning this mixed nature, just to give the impression of more data than there actually is.

Incorrectly computing full-scale reliability of a test from its constituent subtests, resulting in a much too low value; this happens by taking the simple average of subtest reliabilities. This is wrong because, ceteris paribus, reliability increases in proportion with the square root of test length and is therefore not a simple average. Spearman and Brown have provided a set of formulas for correctly computing the reliability coefficient of a test based on partial (subtest, odd/even) reliabilities.

A recent hilarious example concerns an individual who was founding one society after another and charging money for entrance, accepting his own tests as well as many others. He presented himself as an I.Q. test designer, and claimed that the validity of his tests was “insured” by computing the “Pearson R”. A higher density of error is hardly possible: The Pearson correlation coefficient is known as “Pearson r”, not “R”. While it is an informative statistic, computing it in no way affects the validity of a test. Finally, one wonders which insurance company would issue such a policy. Inevitably, such a person puts himself on the member lists of his self-founded societies, even if the nominal requirement is some 70 I.Q. points above his real level. The maxim “fake it until you make it” comes to mind in such cases.

As it does in the case of the one who maintains a counterfeit Giga Society web page, of course listing himself as a member as well as a number of others. At least some of those members are (were) listed there without their knowledge; apparently he has used names and biographical information found on the Internet to fill his fake society, which is perhaps more fraud than ineptitude. Such cases make me think of the current hype of having one’s face injected with silicone, botulinum toxin or whatever, or even have surgery to create a certain appearance. These people focus on appearance rather than essence when striving for success. Seen from the front, they may have nice voluminous lips; but from the side, they look like ducks because their lips are sticking out like a bill. Some even quack.

An extreme case of felonious ineptitude was reported to me by a candidate; a test constructor had invited him to take one of said constructor’s tests, with the guarantee that the result would remain confidential (which should be standard). However, right after the test had been scored, this test constructor, who purports to be a certified psychologist and a PhD, published the score, including the name of the candidate, on a social medium. This is so serious that I consider it my duty to warn the unsuspecting public of characters like this.

In general, the publishing of candidates’ scores including their names and without their permission is typical of inept test scorers. I have received more than one complaint about that. On one occasion, such a bungler even published a list containing only one name (mine) with a fictitious (too low) score behind it, apparently to discredit me.

Publishing item analysis data is another form of ineptitude; it helps future candidates because it reveals the exact hardness of each problem of a test.

And then, congratulating or praising the candidate with one’s score! Those idiots do not understand that an I.Q. score is an objective datum, not an achievement. You praise someone for a scientific discovery, invention, or work of art; not for an I.Q.!

Jacobsen: To some members of the general public with an interest in I.Q. and high-I.Q. societies, as you state in the second answer, they can get false impressions from rejection or exclusion of take-home tests by some high-I.Q. societies. A false impression of a “strict entrance policy” (Ibid.). Why is this the current culture or norm with high-I.Q. communities?

Cooijmans: I think this is already answered sufficiently in the question ‘Why is there “a lack or absence of psychometric expertise” in many high-I.Q. societies, even “a deep incompetence” (Ibid.)?’

Jacobsen: Why should take-home tests be considered part of respectable high-I.Q. societies?

Cooijmans: Because those are the tests meant to measure intelligence with validity in the high range. Most regular I.Q. tests fail at this. And for the minority of regular tests that do possess validity in the high range, a problem is that those who administer the tests in practice are sometimes not able or willing to do so correctly and to report the score correctly and honestly, despite their formal degrees in psychology or psychometrics. Looking at what some psychometrics “doctors” have done in the world of high-range tests, I have to say that such a degree is virtually a guarantee for incompetence and fraud. I am then talking about providing super-high scores to unqualified idiots, publishing names and scores without the candidates’ permission, and leaking out scoring keys of tests. The fingers of one hand barely suffice to count the high-I.Q. “doctors” who have done exactly that.

Another problem with regular psychological I.Q. tests, rarely mentioned but oh so real, is that one can usually buy them as a “kit”, including the intended solutions naturally, if one is at least something like a student of psychology. And I suspect that some of the “certified psychologists/psychometricians” who perverted the admission policies of I.Q. societies have entered those societies with scores obtained thus, and would never have qualified on proper high-range tests or without fraud altogether.

Jacobsen: The third question asks, “What kind of articles are you looking for when taking submissions for the Glia Societies journal Thoth?” (Ibid.) You answer with the values covered before on absolute freedom of speech and no taboo topics for the Glia Society. As a short side question, what are the rarer types of articles submitted to Thoth?

Cooijmans: Esoteric interpretations of works of literature, conspiracy theories about historical events, a few unusual novels, and seven submissions by an early member who was quite brilliant but withdrew from the high-I.Q. world after seeing proof that God existed.

References

Cooijmans, P. (n.d.a). Frequently asked questions The Glia Society. Retrieved from https://gliasociety.org/faq.html.

Cooijmans, P. (n.d.b). Qualification: The Glia Society. Retrieved from https://gliasociety.org/qualification.html.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Administrator, Giga Society; Administrator, Glia Society.

[2] Individual Publication Date: February 22, 2022: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/cooijmans-6; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

The Greenhorn Chronicles 3: Nadine Bollig on Equestrianism and Reaching Strides Equestrian Centre

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/02/22

Abstract

Nadine Bollig is the Owner – and a Trainer, Coach, and Instructor – at Reaching Strides Equestrian Centre. Her biography states: “Reaching Strides Equestrian Centre has been successfully owned and operated by Nadine Bollig since the spring of 2000. Nadine has been involved with horses since the age of 9 when she started to take lessons at a local stable, and within a year had her own first pony, an Appy mare named Sassy who is still a successful member of the school string at the ripe age of 24. Having nearly 20 years of horse experience, Nadine is a current certified Instructor, Equine Behaviourist and Trainer through the Nova Scotia Equestrian Federation and Equine Canada, a certified Level 1 Coach with NCCP Canada, and is currently working to achieve competition coach status. Nadine has been showing competitively since she was a child and showed in many disciplines including dressage, western pleasure, reining, english, hunter, jumper, driving, and even some barrels and poles. She was an active member of Pony Club and 4-H well into her teens. She uses her extensive experiences and her own training, and puts her heart and soul into the operating of the stable to bring out the best in all of the students and horses at Reaching Strides. Nadine has worked with several trainers throughout her career on the methods of non-resistance training through Natural Horsemanship and implements this into every horse or pony that comes through the training program at RSEC. Nadine acts as head coach and trainer for the stable and continues to enjoy competing, now mainly in the hunter discipline. She acts as competition coach and travels with students at all levels and disciplines to competitions from fun/schooling shows to Provincial Bronze and National Gold competitions. Horses and Equestrian are her business and her passion, and she is proud to provide to the stable an environment that is family-like, safe, and friendly, and treats all clientele – whether they are horses or people – with open friendship. One of her biggest beliefs is ‘you walk into the stable a stranger, but you leave as a friend’.” She discusses: the first lesson in riding or working with horses; best moment with Sassy; formal qualifications; long periods of work; the “feel” of working with or riding a horse; the Pony Club and 4-H; the method of non-resistance in natural horsemanship; Reaching Strides Equestrian Centre; educating different students; the state of horsemanship/equestrianism in the far East Coast of Canada; proud moment of competing as an equestrian; and the importance of the provincial/territorial/national equine organizations.

Keywords: Canada, equestrianism, equine, Nadine Bollig, Reaching Strides Equestrian Centre.

The Greenhorn Chronicles 3: Nadine Bollig on Equestrianism and Reaching Strides Equestrian Centre

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Since age 9, you have been involved with horses. What was the first lesson in riding or working with horses for you?

Nadine Bollig[1],[2]: I loved horses all my life, it was the first thing I drew as a young child, I was hooked from the first moment. My neighbour in Germany had two ponies. I had my first pony ride on one of them. I used to walk all on my own to the local stables to see the horses. They didn’t offer riding lessons, so my first actual riding lesson experience was once I moved to Canada.

Jacobsen: What is your best moment with Sassy over all these years?

Bollig: My best moment with Sassy aside from seeing all the smiles she put on thousands of lesson students once I started using her in the riding school over all these years, was the fact that my son got to ride her in a lesson before she passed away. I lost her last summer at age 36 and knowing that I gave her the best possible life a horse could have made the passing a bit easier.

Jacobsen: How does an individual in the Canadian equine industry acquire formal qualifications as, for example, an instructor, equine behaviourist, and trainer? How do the federations (councils, etc.) and Equine Canada set the standard for qualifications?

Bollig: Unfortunately, in Canada there is not a actual requirement to become certified in order to teach lessons. However, in order to be an actual certified coach or instructor, we follow the Equestrian Canada guidelines of completing the rider level program (10 levels in total, 8 of which must be passed to become a coach or 6 of them if to become an instructor). Following along with a mentor and taking training clinics both on line as well as in person, and always remembering that we must continue to learn no matter how much knowledge we acquire. With horses, you never stop learning. 

Jacobsen: What can one never learn about horses, except through long periods of work with them?

Bollig: When it comes to horses, the learning never stops. They have their own individual personalities, and they are each their own unique character. What works for one, doesn’t necessarily work for others. Horses communicate through body language and for those willing to open their hearts and minds and really learn to listen, the experience is something so profound, it’ll blow your mind. They are intuitive, they mirror back our own emotions and force us to live in the now. Horses don’t lie, being around them and really allowing them to open our hearts and soul, is an experience that is more rewarding and more eye opening than anything else I’ve experienced in life. 

Jacobsen: In the interviews and in informal conversations with equestrians, they, often, talk about the “feel” of working with or riding a horse. How would you describe this? I recall Ian Millar speaking to this, too, in media clips. 

Bollig: When they discuss the “feel” it can be as simply put as in us as humans learning to let go. Our number one goal as riders is to learn to work in unity with our horses. Humans are very much control freaks, for lack of a better word. We find it difficult to allow ourselves to get into a situation where we are not fully in control. Learning to have a “feel” is learning to trust your equine partner and move with them in harmony. What I mean by that is, we want to always control what the horse is doing and make them move and work in a certain frame or pace, etc. but if we allow ourselves to move with the horse and feel what that horse is doing under us, and staying out of the way and become one with that horse, your ride becomes a dance of you and that horse moving together, feeling what each other is thinking even before one of you moves in the direction of asking for it. That’s feel!! Some folks are born with the feel and others have to work their butts off to get there. The one thing that is for sure is, the second you feel it, you’ll never forget that moment.

Jacobsen: How were the Pony Club and 4-H helpful in developing as an equestrian?

Bollig: Both of these are excellent programs. There is always so much stuff to learn when it comes to horses. Both Pony Club and 4-H have a set standard of levels to go through where you gain the knowledge of not only riding, but also all the other stuff. In my opinion the biggest problem in the horse world is a lack of the basic knowledge. The off the horse stuff is way more important to learn than the riding portion. But of course, most kids, especially now a day, want to learn how to ride, but feel the rest is not as important. A lot of facilities are so busy that they skip these vital lessons of horsemanship, stable management and the basics of horse care. Programs such as these, are an excellent way to teach our budding equestrians the importance of those steps.

Jacobsen: What is the method of non-resistance in natural horsemanship?

Bollig: So, when it comes to horse training there’s your traditional trainers that work on breaking the horse, which in turn breaks their spirit and turns them into almost a trained machine, because they quickly learn that pain or fear happens if they don’t cooperate. A lot of the time with this type of training, they rush through the process and don’t give the horse a chance to learn at their own pace, forcing them to cooperate or else. Basically, the trainer is the aggressor and because horses are prey animals they tend to give in to the abuse. With Natural Horsemanship we work with the horse at their own pace, and we communicate with them through body language. We establish trust, respect and a bond, and move forward when we know they’re ready to learn more that day, or we take the pressure off if they’ve had enough. The non-resistance part is that they are not forced to do something if they’re not ready for it. It’s all about applying pressure when needed, and backing off and releasing that pressure when they tell us. Reading their body language allows us to know when to apply it and how much of it to apply. In turn once you’ve established that trust, and the horse is not afraid that if they make a mistake that they’ll get punished, they become a willing, loving partner.

Jacobsen: What inspired founding Reaching Strides Equestrian Centre in the Spring of 2000?

Bollig: I always knew I’d do something with animals when I grew up. I had thought about becoming a vet for a while and upon graduating from high school and after checking out several vet programs, I decided it wasn’t for me. I worked at a few big stables and started teaching lessons at one of those. Doing this made me realize my passion was to teach people to become the best horse people they can be.

Jacobsen: As a head coach and trainer at Reaching Strides Equestrian Centre, how do you approach educating different students? 

Bollig: Over the past 21 years I’ve worked with students of all kinds. Kids, adults, seniors, folks with physical and mental exceptionalities, troubled teens, Veterans suffering from PTSD etc. One thing I’ve learned from this and from working with horses is that patience is a virtue. Not everyone learns the same way, and certainly not at the same pace. If one way doesn’t work, it’s my job to explain it, show it, or approach it in different ways until it clicks in.

Jacobsen: What is the state of horsemanship/equestrianism in the far East Coast of Canada?

Bollig: Here on the east coast the horse world has become HUGE, especially in the last 10 years. I feel even though there’s been such an increase in involvement, we are in a bit of a crisis when it comes to actual Horsemanship and basic horse care. There has been a lot of big, beautiful barns with expensive horses and tack that have popped up everywhere as well as some back yard stables that only teach a few etc. The biggest thing that has been brought to my attention, especially in the last few years is that there is a HUGE lack of proper education when it comes to the basics of horse care. Even just proper feeding, hoof care, a total lack of understanding of how important it is working with the horse on the ground to ensure their manners are in check before climbing in the saddle. I feel that we need to train students not just to be riders, but to be horse people that understand the importance of all the stuff it takes to look after these beautiful creatures, and not just learning to ride.

Jacobsen: What is your most proud moment of competing as an equestrian, or a moment – or set of them – of greatest accomplishment, to you?

Bollig: My proudest moments in the show ring have been showing up at these big competitions with our rescue horses and students and beating the butts off those with $40,000 horses, that laughed at us as we got there. They soon learned it’s not how expensive your horse or tack or horse trailer is, it’s the proper training, and hours put in to perfect that training and our riders’ skills that wins the ribbons. As an equestrian myself, I guess I can say some of my proudest moments is when I look up at the smiling faces of my students when they finally figure out a challenge they’ve been working on and when there’s that lightbulb moment and you can see it all over their face. Also, working with rescue horses, my proudest moments is when I finally break through that fear and terror and see them for the first time in their lives allow themselves to trust a human. IT still gives me goosebumps every time.

Jacobsen: What is the importance of the provincial/territorial/national equine organizations?

Bollig: The importance of these organizations is that they are there to help educate folks. They offer programs and learning opportunities and do extensive research on the sport to improve our knowledge on an annual basis. Education is key! I always say, that the second we think we know it all, a horse comes along and teaches us otherwise. I’ve been involved with horses for over 30 years now, and I haven’t stopped learning yet. If anything can be said about them, it is they truly ensure we stay humble and in the moment.

Jacobsen: Thank you for the opportunity and your time, Nadine. 

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Owner, Trainer, Coach, and Instructor, Reaching Strides Equestrian Centre.

[2] Individual Publication Date: February 22, 2022: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/bollig; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Richard May (“May-Tzu”/”MayTzu”/”Mayzi”) on “Identification: to Wake Perchance to Dream” and “Roast Pigeon”: Co-Editor, “Noesis: The Journal of the Mega Society” (7)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/02/15

Abstract

Richard May (“May-Tzu”/“MayTzu”/“Mayzi”) is a Member of the Mega Society based on a qualifying score on the Mega Test (before 1995) prior to the compromise of the Mega Test and Co-Editor of Noesis: The Journal of the Mega Society. In self-description, May states: “Not even forgotten in the cosmic microwave background (CMB), I’m an Amish yuppie, born near the rarified regions of Laputa, then and often, above suburban Boston. I’ve done occasional consulting and frequent Sisyphean shlepping. Kafka and Munch have been my therapists and allies. Occasionally I’ve strived to descend from the mists to attain the mythic orientation known as having one’s feet upon the Earth. An ailurophile and a cerebrotonic ectomorph, I write for beings which do not, and never will, exist — writings for no one. I’ve been awarded an M.A. degree, mirabile dictu, in the humanities/philosophy, and U.S. patent for a board game of possible interest to extraterrestrials. I’m a member of the Mega Society, the Omega Society and formerly of Mensa. I’m the founder of the Exa Society, the transfinite Aleph-3 Society and of the renowned Laputans Manqué. I’m a biographee in Who’s Who in the Brane World. My interests include the realization of the idea of humans as incomplete beings with the capacity to complete their own evolution by effecting a change in their being and consciousness. In a moment of presence to myself in inner silence, when I see Richard May’s non-being, ‘I’ am. You can meet me if you go to an empty room.” Some other resources include Stains Upon the Silence: something for no oneMcGinnis Genealogy of Crown Point, New York: Hiram Porter McGinnisSwines ListSolipsist SoliloquiesBoard GameLulu blogMemoir of a Non-Irish Non-Jew, and May-Tzu’s posterousHe discusses: satori; attachment; a small “i” and a big “I”; intellectual analysis; “But I Hunger and Thirst…for the taste of Vagueness”; circularity; “Dogen Practice”; “Roast Pigeon”; the vagueness; the circularity; a particular, characteristic vague talk in the online chats; and the pigeon.

Keywords: Alfred Richard Orage, Blavatsky, Gautama Buddha, Gurdjieff, James Webb, Jean Klein, J.G. Bennet, P.D. Ouspensky, Richard May, satori.

Conversation with Richard May (“May-Tzu”/”MayTzu”/”Mayzi”) on “Identification: to Wake Perchance to Dream” and “Roast Pigeon”: Co-Editor, “Noesis: The Journal of the Mega Society” (7)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: “Identification: to Wake Perchance to Dream” is a woeful story, sort of. What is “satori”? 

Richard May[1],[2]*: I speak with no official authority about the Gurdjieff work, you should know. None …

I’m not sure that I’ve ever experienced satori. Maybe … But if I have, then I cannot describe it in any case.

But off the top of my head it is an altered state of consciousness (the term satori comes from Zen Buddhism, of course) in which everything is directly seen to be just the way it is in the present moment  — When running by the Charles River in Boston once or twice after long 40-minute runs everything looked like it was just the way it should be! The chattering mind had stopped. I just saw … it was somewhat ineffable … “Suchness,” tathata in Sanskrit. The Buddha is called tathagata, “one who has thus gone.”

People in the online chat groups would kvetch endlessly that they were “identified.” In any spiritual practice the goal is the practice, period.

Jacobsen: What exactly is meant by an “attachment” in this non-philosophy philosophy?

May: Oh, I was talking about online chats in the Gurdjieff work. After 10 or 15 years of being in “the work,” intelligent people did not have a clue as to the meaning of “self-remembering,” a very important fundamental concept of G.I. Gurdjieff’s teaching. Gurdjieff had an injunction that recognized that everyone was going to die, so people must be helped along the way, “The Fifth Being Obligation.” But after 10 or 15 years “in the work” intelligent chat participants often did not have a clue what self-remembering meant!

Gurdjieff’s pupil, J.G. Bennet was recognized as brilliant and he knew both Gurdjieff and Ouspensky, his foremost pupil. He travelled to Gurdjieff’s home and even met Gurdjieff’s father. Bennet read All and Everything, Beelzebub’s Tales to his Grandson 11 times and did not understand it! Where does that leave a person lacking Bennett’s advantages?

In addition after many years the pupils in my chat group were told that the teacher’s teacher had said to his pupils “in the work” that we have a “life time of errors in Beelzebub’s Tales to correct.” How could one understand this writing, All and Everything, the Gurdjieffian Bible, without knowing what the innumerable errors are? This tome was translated and written by committee, not by one person, not directly by Gurdjieff, himself. Belatedly you are told that it is riddled with errors. But Gurdjieff himself had what he called the Fifth Being Obligation. Everyone is going to perish and we don’t know when, so there is an obligation to not waste people’s time.

I was satirically contrasting attachments in Buddhism with identification in the Gurdjieff work. There is a saying in Buddhism that “Original realization is marvelous practice.” The meaning is that the practice is the goal. There is no Buddha, no path, no enlightenment. Just meditate. Follow the path.

Jacobsen: The distinction between a small “i” and a big “I” is implicit in the test with the smaller “i” in the identification and identity. Is this distinction purposeful, or am I seeing a ‘there’ that’s not there?

May: Test? Did you mean text?

We are all always seeing ‘a there that’s not there’! Was that a wave or a particle that just walked by? Often small i refers to the individual fictional ego-identity and big I to the ground of being, itself, the individual wave in the ocean and the ocean, itself.

Jacobsen: Why does intellectual analysis interrupt the potential attainment of satori or enlightenment? 

May: Intellectual analysis is fine during cognition, but not so much during a meditation practice. (Often people have random thoughts, but do not actually think in any case.) Having thoughts is fine, just let them pass. Patanjali defines Yoga as the “Cessation of the modifications of the mind-stuff.” No or less internal mind-chatter is Yoga.

Jacobsen: What is meant by “But I Hunger and Thirst…for the taste of Vagueness”?

May: Gurdjieff wrote of individuals who “hunger and thirst after truth.” In the Gurdjieff chats there was a plethora of vague talk. Vague talk is not truth. I was mocking what generally occurred in the online chats.

And there seemed to be no evidence-based research on the practices of attempted self-remembering (i.e., being present to oneself in the body, emotions and intellectual mind simultaneously) or on “sitting,” one of the Gurdjieffian meditation practices. But the work was claimed to be scientific.

Jacobsen: There is a circularity, sort of, to the path from analysis to not really analyzing to more analysis. Is this reflective of our constant intellectual meanderings away – and away and away, again – from satori experiences?

May: Yes, more or less. I was satirizing the attempted use of analysis to understand why there was endless analyzing. —  Just watch your mindstream of thoughts, your bodily sensations and emotions. The practice is the goal. There is no Buddha, no Dharma (law), no Sangha (community)!

Gautama Buddha was not a Buddhist, Abraham’s mother was not Jewish, hence Abraham wasn’t a born Jew, Jesus wasn’t a Christian and Gurdjieff was not a Gurdjieffian.

Jacobsen: The final quote from “Dogen Practice” states, “Original realization is marvelous practice.” Why is there no definitive distinction between realization of awakening and its cultivation?

May: To have such a distinction would get in the way of realization, create an expectation, make awakening less likely!

Jacobsen: “Roast Pigeon” continues, a bit, with some of the same ideas from “Identification: to Wake Perchance to Dream” “taste” and “vagueness.” What is the association between the vague and the gustatory in these two publications?

May: Gurdjieff said something to the effect that one cannot expect a roast pigeon to fly into one’s mouth in the Gurdjieff work. By this he meant that one must make an effort, constant effort. Work takes effort. It’s not a sinecure.

Jacobsen: Why must the vagueness be stolen?

May: Nothing can be given; Nothing will be given, by the teacher or by Gurdjieff. In Yoga, the Yoga is the effort, not some position. One must steal the truth.

Jacobsen: There’s the circularity in this one, too, with “being in question of being in question” or “pondering pondering.” Are most of our thoughts circuitous-ish? 

May: I was again just mocking the endless vague talk in chat groups about “pondering and being in question.” Must we ponder pondering? Can we question being in question? And ponder being in question? … staining the fragments of silence … “You are the space between your thoughts,” Jean Klein.

Jacobsen: At one point, the amorphous is juxtaposed with the precise in the phrase “certain vague talk.” A certainty in the vagueness, this seems paradoxical, so… traditionally May-Tzu – looking at the other side of the partition to apprehend the whole as with the silence between sounds, background & foreground. The fragments of silence are some of the “Stains Upon The Silence.” Glenn Gould talked about the silence between notes or the gaps in notes – and higher harmonics – as rites of passage in a way. He, so it seems with you, see ‘both sides’ if this can be conceptualized, as such. What do you see as “stains” in the silence?

May: By “certain vague talk” I mean a particular, characteristic vague talk in the online chats, not anything to do with probabilistic certainty.

Jacobsen: Also, what is the pigeon, and why roast it?

May: According to a Google search: “Roasted pigeons have been a well-known delicacy in France since the 16th century.” I didn’t know this, but it makes sense as a context for Gurdjieff’s saying. Truth and moksha (liberation) are not going to fly into your mouth effortlessly.

After decades “in the work” there are individuals who cannot cease smoking or lose weight. Yet unification of one’s being is supposed to be a fruit of the Gurdjieff work. Gurdjieff himself was an obese cigarette smoker with chronic bronchitis for thirty years, according to sources.

Gurdjieff’s most excellent pupil, P.D. Ouspensky at the end of his life was an alcoholic, or nearly so, and completely disillusioned with the system of the Gurdjieff work. He said that nothing can be achieved without the “higher emotional center” and we don’t know how to use the higher emotional center. The title of Ouspensky’s book In Search of the Miraculous was originally intended by Ouspensky to be Fragments of an Unknown Teaching. Fragments … Unknown … The publisher, however, chose the former title. Perhaps that tells us something. My teacher didn’t mention the fate of poor Ouspensky, for some peculiar reason.

Now some people remain “in the work” for more than fifty (50) years, which Gurdjieff would never have allowed. Some individuals today make a career out of “being in the work,” exactly as Ouspensky made a career out of the work, finally lecturing in London.

In The Fourth Way Ouspensky states that there are “no institutions associated with the Fourth Way,” Gurdjieff’s path. What then is the Gurdjieff Foundation, if not an institution? Ironically Gurdjieff’s own system predicts that this would happen. In the relative world everything turns into its opposite, a loose paraphrase of the relevant ideas.

By contrast Alfred Richard Orage left Gurdjieff and the work. After Orage died, Gurdjieff called Orage his friend, a epithet he rarely used, and implied that Orage had “created a ‘soul’” by saying that he hoped he went straight to ‘paradise’.

As someone said to me in a chat group, “The work doesn’t work, but I don’t know anything better.” He also said, “Human beings f*ck up everything they do and Gurdjieff did too.” I asked him what he meant by that and he replied, “You’ll have to figure that out yourself.” I already had.

Gurdjieff said “Believe nothing, not even yourself.”  — The Harmonious Circle by James Webb is an excellent book on the Gurdjieff work. Webb suicided.

Yet I think that there is much of value to be extracted from the traditional wisdom and psychological teachings of G.I. Gurdjieff, e.g., that humans are unconscious automata most of the time, rather than conscious unified beings with free will. We are incubators or wombs for the creation of a ‘soul’, which can survive bodily death. But the precious diamonds are often found lying deep in dung.

And “Most people can’t hear gray.” — May-Tzu

“To know means to know all. Not to know all means not to know. In order to know all, it is only necessary to know a little. But, in order to know this little, it is first necessary to know pretty much.” — G.I. Gurdjieff

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Co-Editor, “Noesis: The Journal of the Mega Society.”

[2] Individual Publication Date: February 15, 2022: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/may-7; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Tor Arne Jørgensen on Nuclear Armaments: 2019 Genius of the Year – Europe, World Genius Directory (5)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/02/15

Abstract

Tor Arne Jørgensen is a member of 50+ high IQ societies, including World Genius Directory, NOUS High IQ Society, 6N High IQ Society just to name a few. He has several IQ scores above 160+ sd15 among high range tests like Gift/Gene Verbal, Gift/Gene Numerical of Iakovos Koukas and Lexiq of Soulios. Tor Arne was also in 2019, nominated for the World Genius Directory 2019 Genius of the Year – Europe. He is the only Norwegian to ever have achieved this honor. He has also been a contributor to the Genius Journal Logicon, in addition to being the creater of toriqtests.com, where he is the designer of now eleven HR-tests of both verbal/numerical variant. His further interests are related to intelligence, creativity, education developing regarding gifted students. Tor Arne has an bachelor`s degree in history and a degree in Practical education, he works as a teacher within the following subjects: History, Religion, and Social Studies. He discusses: atomic weaponry for the future trajectory of the world; the story of the Manhattan Project; the Americans reluctant to enter into the war with Germany; the anti-nuclear proliferation movements; main governments with nuclear weapons; the reduction and preventative capacity of nuclear armaments; nuclear arsenals acted as deterrents; historians who specialize; the Treaty on Open Skies; the current context of nuclear issues; the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty (INF); President Vladimir Putin and (former) President Donald Trump; the implications for international nuclear safety; the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty (NPT) and the Comprehensive Nuclear Test Ban Treaty (CTBT); nuclear-weapon states and non-nuclear-weapon states; some important terms and concepts for future treaties; the main motivation for the treaties; Hypothetical scenario; the opposing case; Einstein; the Doomsday Clock; the systems; nuclear waste; and these nuclear issues likely remain with us.

Keywords: Cold War, Einstein, Franklin D. Roosevelt, genius, Germany, IQ, Manhattan Project, nuclear war, Tor Arne Jørgensen.

Conversation with Tor Arne Jørgensen on Nuclear Armaments: 2019 Genius of the Year – Europe, World Genius Directory (5)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Next, we’ll talk about the nuclear armaments of the modern world now. With the splitting of the Uranium atom in 1938, the directionality of the world changed forever. The power to destroy en masse with minimal means at the hands of a few became available. Hiroshima and Nagasaki as the civilian centers’ victim to the American atrocities of dropping thermonuclear weaponry on other human beings in the midst of war. What seems like the crucial importance of the creation of atomic weaponry for the future trajectory of the world?

Tor Arne Jørgensen[1],[2]*: If one understands you correctly and I think I do, then the focus hereby is on the ability of each sovereign state to produce weapons of mass destruction in order of increased self-security by means of affirming their targets with higher accuracy, through missiles with longer distances capabilities, more destruction capability, in order of a total fear policy through pure desire to create a feeling as mentioned of self-security by their own want for position of sovereignty.

Jacobsen: A single coerced-into-writing-letter by Einstein to then-President Franklin D. Roosevelt set forth the Manhattan Project. How is the story of the Manhattan Project told in professional political historical circles? Duly note, Einstein was not involved in the Manhattan Project. He was a pacifist or had pacifist tendencies.  

Jørgensen: The letter that Einstein signed came at a time when the war was thrown into a state of total chaos. The world was to face its worst enemy to date, with galloping inconsistencies at any cost and by any means. Germany and their desire to develop nuclear weapons that had potential global dominance that we all at the time witnessed then and up through the ages in terms of what the United States let Japan’s two regions undergo in hope of ending World War II with regards to both Hiroshima and Nagasaki in late summer of -45. Racing to be the first to either end or start a war is equally wrong and that is what Einstein knew all too well and should later regret.

Einstein’s voice and fame was a key factor to ensure President Roosevelt’s ear and further ability to follow the advice given for the launch of the Manhattan project. A concerted effort to halt the domination of the Third Reich. Einstein was a pacifist in his belief in the impact of war on peace. But as I previous stated that everyone knows, war never leads to peace. Einstein was all too aware of this, whether they intended in the name of good nor evil. Leo Szilard applied to his former teacher Albert Einstein to get the impact needed in that he and the Hungarian physicist Eugene Wigner together could carry the signature that would be the fortification of the transition within the nuclear age and thus change the world balance for all time to come. The age of nuclear deterrent in the hope of world peace had now begone.

Jacobsen: Why were the Americans reluctant to enter into the war with Germany? Why did they eventually choose to enter into it?

Jørgensen: There are many reasons why the United States did not go to war against Germany, but what is most clear is the divided opinion after failed policies after WWI. The League of Nations and its outcome, furthermore the Great Depression, the despair of all the lives lost in the aid of other states at their own massive expense of human life, and to add an enormous economy expense made the United States divided in its privates to participate in World War II. The idea is, in short, that the United States takes care of its own interests to secure as well as strengthen itself by way of self-preservation.

Grounds for participatory engagement by the United States are clear, the attack made by Japan on Pearl Harbor December 7, 1941.

Jacobsen: In reflection on the aforementioned, this means, still, America is the first and only nation to drop thermonuclear weapons on civilian targets on purpose. That’s a horrifying thought. How has this haunted international relations and politics, and helped the anti-nuclear proliferation movements?

Jørgensen: The devastating force that was confirmed by the United States’ use of nuclear force to end a war against an unjust state that Japan was and still is, the aftermath was all too clear. The memories and images that are burned into all our minds can only be understood as an eternal warning against repeating such a terrible deed to ever be repeated. The terrible destruction is all too clearly documented as the right obstacle to repetition and as a catalyst for the anti-nuclear movement.

The list to repeat this even now almost 80 years later will probably be deterrent enough to follow the current picture for the next 80 years further as well, one must at least choose to believe. The political agenda is then unchanged in its opinion to refrain from all use of nuclear weapons in warfare, and it is further believed that this is also not on the waning front of the world community, no to nuclear weapons will continue to advance for full force against disarmament of this type of mass-destroying weapon. The world has plenty of other material that can more than probably do the same benefit if one can put it that way.

The balance of power throughout the Cold War, the rearmament that was then all too clear and which crippled Russia economically, so that only the United States remained as the one clear superpower and by that changed a worldview that made the United States probably the most feared and the most hated authority, a world police whether the rest of us liked it or not. This has probably driven many of the other states to produce their own nuclear weapons to even out the differences, and possibly face the United States on their own terms. This is clearly not a stabilizing factor for securing world peace, nor the opposite, but it is perhaps what works best for everyone sitting on total power through fear of what the other person may or may not do.

Jacobsen: The main governments with nuclear weapons with readiness capacity known include Russia, the United States, France, China, the United Kingdom, Pakistan, India, Israel, and North Korea. What responsibility does this place on those Member States in the United Nations?

Jørgensen: There is a binding agreement or desired agreement on disarmament under the United Nations Convention of; disarmament, manufacturing and/or any testing of nuclear weapons by the member States and non-member states, also a non – aggression act towards any member state by use of nuclear weapons in any sense. This agreement act is being held to a certain extent but as we see today, North Korea is once again in the process of testing launches, not of nuclear weapons but you get the picture.

Jacobsen: What larger international responsibility is placed on all Member States, defined as such, including non-member observer states Palestine and the Holy See, for the reduction and preventative capacity of nuclear armaments?

Jørgensen: International prohibition and common front against all use of nuclear weapons in the application of sanctions against if any member state should take an upgrading path or non -member states that take the same course of action, this to prevent any form of a “final” nuclear war if one can call it that.

Jacobsen: During the Cold War, the nuclear arsenals acted as deterrents via duopoly of military giants locking proverbial ‘horns’ while retaining a mutual want of survival or non-annihilation. In the current era, if a headcount of the aforementioned Member States, we have 9 major national actors. For Russia and America with 90%+ of the global nuclear arsenals, what responsibilities lie with them, in particular?

Jørgensen: The power that lies with Russia and the United States is to focus on disarmament, to be able to be a stabilizing factor for world peace, to be able to act as a champion for bridge building through the re-creation of weapons of mass destruction through a re-creating forum by the renewal of increased clean power for everyone’s best rather than destruction to everyone’s worst. These two countries are responsible for holding both the East and the West in order to maintaining the status quo, i.e. the balance of power, but should in my opinion rather lead the way towards a new world environment of pure clean energy for everyone.

Jacobsen: How do historians who specialize in the matter view the August 2nd letter of Einstein?

Jørgensen: As I am not an expert according to the specific topics here, it seems to me according to what material is available, that a blurred lines can be removed to ensure transparency between the proper agencies. This can again be applied so that a recommendation from Einstein could again ensure that then President Roosevelt would convey thus present a guarantee that the request is fulfilled as intended.

Jacobsen: What is the Treaty on Open Skies?

Jørgensen: Proposal by Eisenhower in 1955 and expanded later in 1989 by Bush senior, including a joint signature of voluntary participating states, allowing aircraft from other states to fly into one’s own airspace to create transparency of other states’ military activities. There are 33 member countries from NATO and the Warsaw pact that was concluded March 24, 1992. Further comes the agreement on Passive quota which is the number of observations that a state is required to accept from other states, and active quota which are the actual observations to be carried out of by foreign states.

This is a great safeguard with regards to secure evidence to a large extent against the armament of nuclear weapons. Norway has today committed itself to 7 flights in accordance with the terms of agreement thus to ensure that our own military does not put itself in an active rearmament situation. This of course also applies to the extent that we have a lot of NATO exercises towards the border with Russia, something they been known to have repeatedly opposed verbally at top government level. There is also a lot in the media about high level diplomacy between Norway and Russia according to the topics mentioned here.

Jacobsen: What is its relevance to the current context of nuclear issues?

Jørgensen: Will highlight here the obstacle of increased military commitment by the development of nuclear weapons, which has been uncovered in Iran over the past 10 years. Furthermore, it has emerged that North Korea has built up its nuclear arsenal, which is very regrettable for overall world security.

Jacobsen: What is the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty (INF)?

Jørgensen: The 1987 agreement between the United States and the then Soviet Union and their respective presidents Reagan and Gorbachev, in which the agreement consisted of disarming medium-range missiles armed with nuclear warheads. This made it possible to abolish an entire category of weapon systems towards a safer world, whereby global stability was more aimed at mutual trust through mutual understanding of brotherhood and not through fear spreading propaganda of upscale nuclear arms.

Jacobsen: Why did President Vladimir Putin and (former) President Donald Trump pull out of it?

Jørgensen: The short version is that the United States believed that for several years Russia had violated the agreement signed in 1987, by trial testing regarding missile category thus a clear violation of the signed mutual agreement. This was the reason why the United States withdrew from the agreement. Russia, for its part, has repeatedly denied the allegations in a statement issued stating “Similar, baseless allegations concerning Russia’s intelligence have been made more than once.”

Jacobsen: What are the implications for international nuclear safety given the progress from its inception in 1987 and destruction in 2019?

Jørgensen: The implications of the breach of agreement go back to a kind of “Cold War” scenario that Putin says in the media today with regards to the NATO allies a look back at the uncertainty about nuclear war that covered the world for decades. What is happening today between Russia and Ukraine is inevitable in this context, as war is once again on the doorstep of all of us with unforeseen consequences.

Jacobsen: How important were the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty (NPT) and the Comprehensive Nuclear Test Ban Treaty (CTBT) for global geopolitical stability?

Jørgensen: The idea behind these two programs for testing nuclear weapons in space, on land or under water, and disarmament to change the focus from weapons status to a source of clean energy towards a climate-focused society, is all well and good. The only problem is that some of the most powerful and best equipped states choose to say A but not B, they are initially friendly and shows a hint of partly agreement that these are good programs to join, but when the balance of power is changing, well countries like Pakistan will not nor India join when the other party does not want to.

Furthermore, as I said, the United States has joined part 1, but not part 2 of the agreement program, that is, signed with not committed, and then it carries back to the start again. Letting go of power, thus seeing a possible loss of that power for those countries that look upon themselves as gamechangers on a global scale, or see the profits promoted by the gains of nuclear technology, will not yield the obvious gains in either long term or short term. Finally, this is about power security were to let go of one known scenario outcome to give into a new and unknown one may seem like an insecure draw of cards to make; thus the result is already given in advance.

Jacobsen: For the categories of nuclear-weapon states and non-nuclear-weapon states, how might future treaties utilize such terminologies to clarify intents, obligations, responsibilities, and rights?

Jørgensen: By putting pressure from the non-nuclear states onto the states that have nuclear weapons to ratify their plans for the obligation to disarm, limit, transform and secure the waste in safe storage facilities. Will also point out that Norwegian Physicians Against nuclear weapons (NLA) national branch of the International Physicians for the Prevention of Nuclear War (IPPNW) is actively working for the disarmament of nuclear weapons. We are working well in cooperation with the Norwegian authorities to put pressure on the states that are hesitant to commit to a disarmament plan.

This done so that the commitment can enable a reducing unintentional for a safer future. The fact that private organizations in collaboration with non-nuclear states can, to the extent they can, influence enough for change to take place is then the best answer one can give me here about bonds, and active responsibility through pressure from external factors.

Jacobsen: What might be some important terms and concepts for future treaties to consider for improved deterrence capacity frameworks?

Jørgensen: To have a steady balance of power in the world between two dominant actors as during the Cold War between USA and Soviet Union, with the intention that none of the actors was willing to annihilate the world. This balance of fear should not determine the world of tomorrow in the hope that we can continue to live in peace.

The fact that nuclear military power today when we only have this one planet to live on should, in the undersigned opinion, not form the basis for living in peace. The fact that extended use of a missile defense system by the USA as an extended deterrent, and accelerator for the exercise of the terrorist balance. Not to mention terrorist organizations and their role in influencing the current balance of power in any negative direction to end today’s existence.

Jacobsen: What is the main motivation for the treaties? Do these treaties seem to work in increasing the level of safety?

Jørgensen: Self-preservation, and no I do not think so, not as a clear intent of global stability.

Jacobsen: So far, we have talked about the NPT, CTBT, INF, and TOS. There are a bunch of others including SALT I, SALT II, START I, START II, START II Framework, SORT Moscow Treaty), and New START. There are many covering different dynamics of the nuclear issue. Hypothetically, let’s pretend the entire world framework for nuclear deterrence in the form of treaties is shredded, what happens?

Jørgensen: Today, one still sees that the need for protection through deterrence through the possible use of nuclear weapons is as relevant today as during the Cold War. Countries such as North Korea, Russia and China are investing more and more to secure their own national status as a nuclear power to reckon with if any events occur that could possibly shake one’s statuettes.

It is pointed out by various groups that are in favor of disarmament of these types of weapons around the world that today’s society is overdue for a change in security conditions where the nuclear power has lost its role. Finding fully automated weapon systems, we turn our gaze to space and those who may bring this that may threaten our existence as a species. But just look at NATO, which can largely be described as a nuclear alliance, no, the age of nuclear weapons is not in decline, no not in any way, quite the opposite in fact as I see it. So, to sum up, do we need nuclear weapons today, yes maybe more now than ever before? This brings me back to the question of origin, “what happens if all the treaties are shredded”, I guess a complete global fire sale of governing security.

Jacobsen: Let’s take the opposing case, the INF is reinstated, NPT, CTBT, INF, TOS, SALT I, SALT II, START I, START II, START II Framework, SORT Moscow Treaty), and New START remain and others begin to build on them. What happens to the nuclear issue?

Jørgensen: A continuation of the status quo, possibly an increased status of the status quo.

Jacobsen: Ideally, what would happen in regards to the nuclear issue stability as deterrence or elimination of the nuclear option throughout the world, or some other option?

Jørgensen: Some outcomes of what has been mentioned above does not at present time seen as a possible deviation of possible events. But this does not mean that a third alternative cannot arise that has not yet been anticipated and that may or may not tip the scales away from the two mentioned outcome, i.e. an unknown outcome.

Jacobsen: Einstein, unbeknownst to many, was a key player in the prevention of the attempts at manufacturing and stockpiling of nuclear armaments. He argued for a supranational authority as a deterrent because he considered the bomb inevitable. What hasn’t been instituted, which could act as another bulwark against guaranteed mutual annihilation from nuclear war?

Jørgensen: An overarching body. What is meant by that, well today it is left to the nuclear states not to comply with the plan of attack. Where deterrence is the one reason for not attacking and endangering the lives of all of us. If then the UN, or NATO, as a function is in the mindset the overriding body so as not to hand over all responsibility to the individual country.

There are many supreme bodies that can try the individual country’s decisions and at best reverse decisions that violate human rights and so on. What if when it comes to the danger of nuclear war, that the deterrent factor is dropped from the individual country and is overruled by a common union for the preservation of these weapons is set up. Could such a common international body be tested faithfully? It’s the only thing I can think of that power relinquishes – every single country and is protected under a community that most likely does not allow the use of nuclear weapons ever again.

Jacobsen: Human beings made this problem. Human beings must solve this problem piecemeal, probably. What can move the Doomsday Clock dial farther from midnight in the midst of strongmen political gamesmanship, and direct attacks on an international rules-based order and on the rights-based global system of governance?

Jørgensen: Through global cooperation for a safer everyday life, overthrow of standing directives, further by a common front on both sides. Change basic structures through global cooperation, but all this is just utopia.

Jacobsen: There have been a number of instances in which the systems controlling much of the nuclear arsenals have failed with the implied consequence as the annihilation of the human species if not for human intervention. One was the NORAD computer chip malfunction, or more than one in fact. The Cuban Missile Crisis was another. The SACPNORAD communications error yet another. The training tape accident of 1979 was still another. Still another, and on home turf, the Norwegian rocket accident along the northern border of Russia, which plunged into the ocean. Why, if the nuclear are to be kept, should the systems be modernized simply for safety reasons?

Jørgensen: The use of nuclear weapons in any such state is not safe, nor can it be safe. A modernizing condition, or type of upgrade for safety reasons is not advisable due to the release energy potential of the components. The financial gains that follow at both ends advocate the security gain. No, it can be concluded that to modernize to secure, rather to break down or turn into productive environmentally sustainable energy.

Jacobsen: What are some other issues to do with nuclear waste from the stockpile that need some immediate consideration and management?

Jørgensen: Proper storage is a key issue here, storage under water is to some extent what needs to be addressed, it is no longer in extended use for the risk that this poses if leaks should occur for the sea areas in question. What should also be looked at is to move the waste out into space and remove it that way now that Elon Musk and his Space X and or Jeff Bezos` Blue Origin is aiming toward an increase travel schedule for transport into space, also to investigate the use of nuclear reactors as propulsion measures for the space rockets in a much larger extent. But littering in this way is also not, in my opinion, a sustainable solution either. What I am brought back to is transforming the mindset of reintroducing nuclear waste into a resource for environmentally sustainability.

Furthermore, of what should be discussed to a much greater extent than today, let us make use of this clean energy in an innovative and functional way, which is what society is benefited by as a way towards a transition over to a more viable alternative energy source as a direct result with regards to a change of course due to the fossil replacements within a short period of time.

Jacobsen: How will these nuclear issues likely remain with us, even as anthropogenic climate change or human-induced global warming continue to loom over the horizon as two of the three heads of the proverbial Cerberus?

Jørgensen: Today’s thinking is based on additional cost and limitation of visionary implements. Cost must go down, it must be seen as an meaningful act towards key actors within government officials, the feud over military accumulation must change, in anticipation of possible future artificially intelligent forms that can help us naïve mortals to see a new solution to the problem, if then, it is not us as creators of the problem who is the problem and by that is in need of a solution…

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Tor Arne Jørgensen is a member of 50+ high IQ societies.

[2] Individual Publication Date: February 15, 2022: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/jorgensen-5; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Iakovos Koukas on Love, God, and Online IQ Testing Platform: President & Founder, GENIUS High IQ Network (2)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/02/15

Abstract

Iakovos Koukas is the President and Founder of THIS High IQ Society, 4G High IQ Society, BRAIN High IQ Society, ELITE High IQ Society, 6N High IQ Society, NOUS High IQ Society, 6G High IQ Society, NOUS200 High IQ Society, GIFTED High IQ Network, GENIUS High IQ Network, GENIUS Initiative, GENIUS Journal, IQ GENIUS platform, and Test My IQ platform. He is the author of the GIFT High Range IQ Test series, the GENE High Range IQ Test series, the VAST IQ Test series, and the VICE IQ Test series. He was won the WGD Genius of the Year 2015 Award for Europe, the VEDIQ Guild Intellectual Leader of the Year 2019 Award, and the Global Genius Directory Award of the Year 2021, for his contributions to the global high IQ community. He discusses: the new online IQ testing platform; the one major lesson in love; Orthodox Christian roots; a sense of purpose in life; practical lessons of professional learning; the smartest person; the wisest person; the most creative person; the legacy of accomplishments; the attributes of God; the purpose of human beings; passages of the Bible; scientific discovery; the range of IQ scores; Jesus Christ; theological arguments; “His” existence; passages in the Bible and theology; the creation of GENIUS High IQ Network; WGD Genius Of The Year Award Winner — Europe and VEDIQ Guild Intellectual Leader Of The Year 2019; alternative tests; fiction novels, philosophical essays, poetry collections, and scientific papers written; the GIFT High Range IQ Test and GENE High Range IQ Test; and final thoughts or feelings.

Keywords: genius, GENIUS High IQ Network, Greek, Iakovos Koukas, intelligence, IQ.

Conversation with Iakovos Koukas on Love, God, and Online IQ Testing Platform: President & Founder, GENIUS High IQ Network (2)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: What is the new online IQ testing platform you’re developing?

Iakovos Koukas[1],[2]*: My new online IQ testing platform will be named Test My IQ. It will host only timed IQ tests and articles on IQ testing and its importance. IQ tests will be of high quality and various types: verbal, numerical, logical, spatial, and mixed. The authors of the tests (except myself) are Theodosis Prousalis, Anthony Lawson, and Christian Backlund. Currently, I am collaborating with Hans Sjoberg’s IQexams website for the standardization of the tests. The platform will be online by the end of February.

Jacobsen: What is the one major lesson in love, not in an abstract sense, learned from your parents and grandparents?

Koukas: The major lesson is that true love is unconditional. The kind of love that you don’t base it on what someone does for you in return. You simply love them, do whatever is necessary for their well-being, and want nothing more than their happiness. Unconditional love is selfless love.

Jacobsen: How do rich Orthodox Christian roots provide a firm foundation in faith for the family?

Koukas: Orthodox Christian roots mean more than being religious. It is related to very specific teachings, traditions, lifestyles, and values. It is a value system that provides a very firm foundation of faith. Orthodox Christian roots mean a combination of values and traditions from the Byzantine culture and the Hellenistic culture.

Jacobsen: From your parents’ and grandparents’ love stories, and the experience of social isolation and school bullying, you developed a sense of purpose in life. What is this purpose of life to you?

Koukas: There are two significant lessons learned from these experiences: unconditional love is the most important thing in life, and nobody can stop you from fulfilling your dreams even when you are entirely different from others. The purpose of life is to find and spread unconditional love and to fulfill your dreams without being discouraged by the obstacles that others put in your way.

Jacobsen: Out of the work and studying in banking services, shipping industry, investment banking, merchant acquiring, writing, and psychology-psychometrics, what were the practical lessons of professional learning for you?

Koukas: Building strong relationships with other people is the most important thing in any professional field. In every aspect of life, you need to provide some form of service to other people, and since every person is different, the kind of service you provide should be different as well.

Jacobsen: Who is the smartest person you’ve ever met or known about at-a-distance?

Koukas: One of the smartest people I have ever met was Michael Fightmaster, but he is no longer with us. The smartest people I know now are the board members of GENIUS High IQ Network: Dalibor Marincic, Daniel Pohl, Domagoj Kutle, Victor Hingsberg, YoungHoon Kim, and Marios Prodromou.

Jacobsen: Who is the wisest person you’ve ever met or known about at-a-distance?

Koukas: The wisest people I have ever met were my parents. I remember one of my mother’s wise quotations: “Even if you do a good deed for a selfish purpose, it is still a good deed because you ease someone’s pain and suffering.”

Jacobsen: Who is the most creative person you’ve ever met or known about at-a-distance?

Koukas: One of the most creative people I have ever met was my best friend, George. He was constantly writing novels, essays, and poetry collections, trying to solve unsolved problems in mathematics, developing innovative theories in quantum physics, and discovering new winning chess strategies.

Jacobsen: At the end of life, what do you hope to be the legacy of accomplishments for you – the memory of you?

Koukas: I want to be remembered as a person who helped his fellow human beings with his endeavors and creations and took initiatives that promoted humanity’s overall well-being.

Jacobsen: What are the attributes of God?

Koukas: God is omniscient (all-knowing), omnipotent (all-powerful), and omnibenevolent (supremely good). God knows everything, has the power to do anything and is perfectly good.

Jacobsen: As a “Christian Orthodox,” what is the purpose of human beings within the “Universe” “He created”?

Koukas: The purpose of human beings within the Universe is to glorify God, live a life of love, use their gifts in the service of other people, and work hard at making this world a better place to live.

Jacobsen: What passages of the Bible mean the most to you?

Koukas: “Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.”

— 1 Corinthians 13:4-8

Jacobsen: What scientific discovery seems the most significant in the history of humanity to you?

Koukas: Electricity. It constantly penetrates human activity, this world, and every aspect of life; therefore, its discovery can be considered the most influential and important of all time.

Jacobsen: With the range of IQ scores among top scorers on these tests, what score seems the most accurate to the fixed IQ for you?

Koukas: I cannot tell for sure for two reasons. The first reason is the margin of error in IQ measurement, especially in the high range. The higher the IQ score, the larger the margin of error. The second reason is neuroplasticity. IQ is not something fixed. The brain can modify, change, and adapt both structure and function throughout one’s life. Psychological stress and certain neurological diseases can lower IQ while reading books and learning new skills can increase IQ. Therefore, I do not really know which score can be considered as my true IQ score.

Jacobsen: Who is Jesus Christ to you, and to the broader Christian Orthodox world?

Koukas: Jesus Christ is the Son of God or God the Son. God exists in three coequal, coeternal, consubstantial divine persons: God the Father, God the Son (Jesus Christ), and God the Holy Spirit, and all three distinct persons share one essence.

Jacobsen: With “God as the first cause and last end of the universe… the Alpha and Omega… [and] the purpose of everything,” what theological arguments make the most sense, and argue for, the existence of God?

Koukas: One of them is the fine-tuning argument: there are several universal constants and measured values in the universe that, if they were changed by minimal amounts, would preclude the existence of life. As theoretical physicist Paul Davies said, “The appearance of design is overwhelming.” Another one is the argument from consciousness: correlations between brain states and conscious states of persons require explanation but cannot be given an adequate scientific explanation. The best explanation of these correlations (and human consciousness) is that they are the result of the work of a purposeful supernatural being, which is God.

Jacobsen: What, in the phrase “His living and non-living creations” indicate “His” existence to you?

Koukas: God exists in three Persons: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. One can think that a triune God would create beings in His image. The Christian doctrine states that human beings are created in the image of God. Indeed, humans have a triune form: mind, body, and soul. We can see other trinities in nature as well. For example, all atoms are made of three basic particles: protons, neutrons, and electrons. Space itself has three dimensions: length, width, and height. There are many more triadic patterns, which I describe in my treatise, The Rule of Three.

Jacobsen: What passages in the Bible and theology provide the most accurate depiction of the “Second Coming of Christ”?

Koukas: “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.”

–Matthew 24:29-30

Jacobsen: What was the inspiration for the creation of GENIUS High IQ Network, and THIS High IQ Society, 4G High IQ Society, BRAIN High IQ Society, ELITE High IQ Society, 6N High IQ Society, NOUS High IQ Society, 6G High IQ Society, NOUS200 High IQ Society, GIFTED High IQ Network?

Koukas: I became a member of several online high IQ societies a year before I joined Mensa, and I realized that most of these online high IQ societies and networks have no real-life purpose, and they don’t have to offer something useful to humanity. I was inspired by their non-purpose to create high IQ networks and societies that will have two specific purposes: bring together highly intelligent individuals so that they can meet their peers and have meaningful interactions and select the most gifted and creative among them who would be willing to contribute towards the advancement of humanity. GENIUS is the acronym for Global Evolving Network for an Intellectually Upgraded Society. GENIUS serves the high IQ community by maintaining a hospitable and civilized environment for constructive interaction, meaningful engagement, critical analysis, and respectful sharing of ideas between its members, and serves the global society by promoting humanitarian actions through the GENIUS Initiative.

Jacobsen: What do awards such as WGD Genius Of The Year Award Winner — Europe and VEDIQ Guild Intellectual Leader Of The Year 2019 mean to you?

Koukas: Such awards mean that my friends in the high IQ community recognized my efforts towards the advancement of the community. I am truly humbled and honored that I have met such bright minds who are also good people.

Jacobsen: What alternative tests developed, by you, seem the most difficult for testees?

Koukas: My verbal IQ tests, either timed or untimed, seem difficult for many testees, sometimes for the vocabulary used in some items and sometimes for the scientific terminology used in some other items. Provided that they are not too dependent on crystallized knowledge, and they are solely focused on pattern recognition, I think that verbal tests designed for the high range should make use of a more advanced vocabulary and more complex scientific terminology because people in the high range have a higher ability to handle advanced concepts in general.

Jacobsen: Of those fiction novels, philosophical essays, poetry collections, and scientific papers written by you, what took the most effort, meant the most to you?

Koukas: My latest two treatises, The Rule of Three and Between Cosmos and Consciousness, probably took the most effort and meant the most to me.

Jacobsen: With the GIFT High Range IQ Test and GENE High Range IQ Test, what abilities does each test tap?

Koukas: GIFT and GENE are both series of verbal and numerical tests. They mostly measure one’s verbal or numerical abilities, but they are also designed to estimate FSIQ or IQ or g with great accuracy.

Jacobsen: Any final thoughts or feelings based on the interview?

Koukas: I want to thank you for this interview, dear Scott. Your questions were quite diverse and detailed, and you covered the most important issues. There are things here that I am sharing for the first time in public. I hope that the readers were able to know more aspects of my personality and my worldview.

Jacobsen: Thank you for the opportunity and your time, Iakovos.

Koukas: You are most welcome, dear Scott. Thank you for giving me this opportunity.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] President & Founder, THIS High IQ Society, 4G High IQ Society, BRAIN High IQ Society, ELITE High IQ Society, 6N High IQ Society, NOUS High IQ Society, 6G High IQ Society, NOUS200 High IQ Society, GIFTED High IQ Network, GENIUS High IQ Network, GENIUS Initiative, GENIUS Journal, IQ GENIUS platform, and Test My IQ platform.

[2] Individual Publication Date: February 1, 2022: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/koukas-2; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Entemake Aman (阿曼) on Chinese Education: Member, OlympIQ Society (2)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/02/15

Abstract

Entemake Aman ( 阿曼 ) claims an IQ of 180 (SD15) with membership in OlympIQ. With this, he claims one to be of the people with highest IQ in the world. He was born in Xinjiang, China. He believes IQ is innate and genius refers to people with IQ above 160 (SD15). Einstein’s IQ is estimated at 160. Aman thinks genius needs to be cultivated from an early age, and that he needs to make achievements in the fields he is interested in, such as physics, mathematics, computer and philosophy, and should work hard to give full play to his talent. He discusses: Chinese culture’s view of IQ; the main people in the high-IQ culture of China; the highest IQs in China known; more active in China’s IQ circle; Chinese education competitiveness; Chinese education; students’ view China’s educational system; the outcome for students who go through China’s educational system; the educational system in China; different students of different IQs treated in China’s educational system; the gifted and talented; Chinese child prodigies; the Chinese educational system improve; older high-IQ students mentor younger high-IQ students.

Keywords: Entemake Aman, intelligence, IQ, OlympIQ Society.

Conversation with Entemake Aman (阿曼) on Chinese Education: Member, OlympIQ Society (2)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: What is Chinese culture’s view of IQ?

Entemake Aman (阿曼)[1],[2]*: Only a few people in China pay attention to IQ. Many people generally believe that good learning means high IQ. Mensa has stopped testing people in China.

Jacobsen: Who are some of the main people in the high-IQ culture of China?

Aman: Wayne Zhang, Qiao Han Sheng and other olympiq members. I estimate that there are 10 people with IQ over 175 in China.

Jacobsen: What are the high-IQ societies in China?

Aman: Shen Han’s IQ Society (threshold is 130 sd15) and Mensa China. Sheng Han currently has about 4500 members. Mensa China has 800 members. Mensa is a supervised test and Sheng Han is an unsupervised test. Some of China’s high scores are unreliable. In China, the answers of slseii, slse48 and numerus have been leaked. Therefore, I suggest Jonathan Wai pay attention to China’s slse scores.

Jacobsen: Who have the highest IQs in China known?

Aman: Wen-chin su. My IQ is among the top three in China.

Jacobsen: What societies are more active in China’s IQ circle?

Aman: Sheng Han high IQ Association and Mensa China are the most active.

Jacobsen: Is Chinese education competitive?

Aman: Because China has a population of 1.4 billion, it is very competitive. We have to study hard for 12 years before we can enter a good university.

Jacobsen: How is Chinese education built?

Aman: China’s education is exam oriented education for the purpose of college entrance examination. Our college entrance examination is divided into science and liberal arts. We all take Chinese, mathematics and English. Science tests physics, chemistry and biology. Liberal arts exam politics, history and geography. The full score is 750.

Jacobsen: How do students view China’s educational system?

Aman: In China, the college entrance examination is the most fair examination, and it is basically the only chance for ordinary students to change their fate. But it’s hard.

Jacobsen: What is the outcome for students who go through China’s educational system?

Aman: Students who work hard can be admitted to a good university. I think what the college entrance examination needs most is good teachers. If the middle school entrance examination is not good, students will not be able to enter key middle schools, so the teaching teachers will not be very good, and you may not be able to enter a good university. Therefore, it is very important to enter key middle schools in China. Key middle schools have good teachers to teach you.

Jacobsen: How is IQ used in the educational system in China if at all?

Aman: In China, few people pay attention to IQ unless they are interested in high IQ. In China, physics and mathematics may need an IQ of 120 (SD = 15). Other subjects need to study hard and have good teachers (good teachers are the most important).

Jacobsen: How are different students of different IQs treated in China’s educational system?

Aman: Schools pay little attention to students’ IQ. Anyway, whether we can enter a good high school in China and meet good teachers is the most important. In a good high school, you can have the opportunity to participate in competitions, such as mathematics and physics.. If your IQ reaches 120 (SD = 15) and you meet a good teacher, you have a high probability of being admitted to a good university.

Jacobsen: How are the gifted and talented treated in the Chinese educational system?

Aman: If you are a genius in physics or mathematics. You can participate in the competition, then you can be escorted to Tsinghua and Peking University. Of course, the premise is that your high school is a key high school. I don’t think China’s education system is suitable for talents with IQ above 140 (sd15).

Jacobsen: What happens to Chinese child prodigies in adulthood after going through the Chinese educational system?

Aman: For those prodigies with IQ greater than 140, if they do not enter a good high school and receive good teachers, they will probably not enter a good university. Therefore, whether a child prodigy with an IQ greater than 140 can become a talent requires good high school and hard study.

Jacobsen: How could the Chinese educational system improve?

Aman: The current education system only needs an IQ of 120 (sd15) and can be admitted to a good university through hard study. China has a population of 1.4 billion. I find it difficult to change China’s education system.

Jacobsen: How can older high-IQ students mentor younger high-IQ students to help them?

Aman:  Study hard from Grade 7. Whether you can enter a good high school is an important condition for you to enter a good university. After entering a good high school, try to participate in math and physics competitions as much as possible.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Member, OlympIQ Society; Member, Mensa International.

[2] Individual Publication Date: February 15, 2022: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/aman-2; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Paul Cooijmans on the Electronic Mail Forum: Administrator, Glia Society (5)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/02/08

Abstract

Paul Cooijmans is an Independent Psychometitor and Administrator of the Glia Society, and Administrator of the Giga Society. He discusses: the themes within the Glia Society’s electronic mail forum; words, topics, and writing styles seem less frequent in the electronic mail forum than if the cognitive rarity was much lower; communication; “rudeness” “forbidden” from the Glia Society’s electronic mail forum; “personal attacks” “forbidden” from the Glia Society’s electronic mail forum; the perspective of a long-term administrator of a high-IQ society; “no taboo topics” existing and “absolute freedom of speech” as a value; a high-IQ society’s intellectual ‘atmosphere’; punishing “missbehavers”; temporarily removed from the electronic mail forum; permanently removed from the electronic mail forum; subject lines; contributors or participants try to hide their identities; a common confusion or mistake; the motivations for some members ‘repeating their point’ ad nauseam; rule ignored by the Glia Society electronic mail forum participants; challenging “the rules of the forum on the forum itself”; kind remarks; and the successes and failures of the Glia Society electronic mail forum.

Keywords: absolute freedom of speech, electronic mail forum, fora, Glia Society, Paul Cooijmans.

Conversation with Paul Cooijmans on the Electronic Mail Forum: Administrator, Glia Society (5)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: We’re back. My fault for the delay – apology. To continue from Conversation with Paul Cooijmans on Introduction to the Glia Society: Administrator, Glia Society (1),” “Conversation with Paul Cooijmans on Censorship, Freedom of Speech, High-IQ Societies, Moles and Wolves, Cultural Marxism, and “Thoth”: Administrator, Glia Society (2),” “Conversation with Paul Cooijmans on Community Dynamics, Heterogeneous and Homogeneous Tests, and Qualification: Administrator, Glia Society (3),” and “Conversation with Paul Cooijmans on Glia Society, Games, Tests, Puzzles, Thoth, Policy, and Absolute Freedom of Speech: Administrator, Glia Society (4),” on the Glia Society, you have electronic mail forum rules. This may be tedious (bear with me, please and thank you), as an educational effort. It is “open only to the society’s members” (n.d.). What have been the themes within the Glia Society’s electronic mail forum amongst the member-only forum? 

Paul Cooijmans[1],[2]*: So this is about electronic mail forum, not the several other fora that exist nowadays on various “social media”. I first want to say that most of the communication now takes place on those other fora, and the electronic mail forum is not very active. Messages to it are often announcements of new tests, contests around tests or puzzles, or events of some kind. I also announce the society’s journal issues on this forum.

Jacobsen: With the cognitive rarity of the Glia Society, what words, topics, and writing styles seem less frequent in the electronic mail forum than if the cognitive rarity was much lower?

Cooijmans: Football (soccer) is the first that occurs to me regarding this question, and also the use of so-called four-letter words (if they read this, some may at once want to start using exactly those words and that topic to “disprove” me, but that does not count). Having said that, I remember that a Netherlandic member of another society, with a pass level at the 98th centile, used to say that “football, booze, and women” were his main interests. This person died some years ago. He is the one who robbed a casino in the 1990s, I may have mentioned that before here or there.

Jacobsen: How frequent is communication on the Glia Society’s electronic mail forum?

Cooijmans: Lately there have been six messages a month on average.

Jacobsen: Why is “rudeness” “forbidden” from the Glia Society’s electronic mail forum (Ibid.)?

Cooijmans: Because people of higher quality do not seem to like rudeness and will leave a forum if rudeness is frequently employed. What remains is the scum. The forum turns into a gutter. Instructive in this respect is that one of the rude members once asked, “Why do you not form two fora, one with very strict rules for the boring civilized people, and one without rules, for the rest of us?” Of course this idea was highly mistaken, as civilized forum participants do not require rules at all; they behave well by themselves. It is the rude ones that need rules, and need enforcement thereof because they are always breaking them, if only on purpose to provoke their removal. So, strict rules would only be needed on the second forum variant.

Jacobsen: Why are “personal attacks” “forbidden” from the Glia Society’s electronic mail forum (Ibid.)?

Cooijmans: Basically the same answer as to the previous question applies. Also, “argumentum ad hominem” is a notorious logical fallacy, and so persistent that it is no luxury to address it formally in forum rules.

Jacobsen: From the perspective of a long-term administrator of a high-IQ society, what happens in fora when “lies, insults, putting words into another’s mouth, slander, character assassination, crime, or any other type of misbehaviour” (Ibid.) are present or excused?

Cooijmans: Exactly as said a few questions ago: The people of higher quality leave, and the scum remains. The forum becomes a gutter. Once, a past forum moderator of the Glia Society abandoned a forum completely for that reason and started another one, and again later he even deleted an entire forum without prior notice. For clarity, fora in the society have almost always been started and administrated by members other than I myself. I am somewhat of a late adopter of new technology, I still do not have a mobile “smart telephone” for instance, or even a flat-screen television apparatus.

Jacobsen: With “no taboo topics” existing and “absolute freedom of speech” as a value, what have been the reactions to controversial subject matter in the fora?

Cooijmans: Not much, as members do not make a lot of use of their freedom in this regard, in my perception. In an earlier interview I already mentioned a discussion that arose after a member published in the journal Thoth material that some saw as portraying “violence against women”, so I will not repeat that here. Lately some slight controversy occurred around members showing self-made test items, waiting for people to send answers, and then making known the solution. A problem is that such items may resemble actual test items, and that thus existing tests may be made easier to solve. This is an annoying matter that keeps coming back, and it is disappointing that some people lack the discretion to sense that their material may be damaging existing tests. If you forbid such publishing of self-made items completely, this seems like a hard and rigid measure to some; but if you allow it, others complain that you are too soft and are letting them destroy your work before your eyes.

What makes it worse is that if you even mention that such material may help candidates to solve tests, this in itself will draw people’s attention to those forum threads and they will study them to gain an advantage. I fear that matters like this will remain a recurring theme in my life; I am so naive, so the opposite of paranoid, that I tend to realize only years or decades afterwards that people have been fooling around with me at some point.

Jacobsen: How does the existence of “no taboo topics” and “absolute freedom of speech” enrich a high-IQ society’s intellectual ‘atmosphere’ (Ibid.)?

Cooijmans: I must say I have always been amazed how little appreciation people have for their freedom. It seems many do not care much about the limited freedom of speech in society in general. So for those, this freedom does not enrich the atmosphere in an I.Q. society a whole lot. I reckon part of this is that intellectuals are relatively often cultural Marxists, and thus are at “the other side” when it comes to freedom; they are themselves the curtailers of it.

Another problem is that there are traitors within the high-I.Q. community who may bring any sensitive uttering of a member to the outer world in hours, despite the prohibition to do such. So sadly, I can not guarantee the safety of anyone making use of one’s freedom of speech. And this is not paranoia; it has happened once or twice that a non-member was discussed in a members-only forum and that this individual contacted me soon thereafter, fully aware of what had been said. I have never found out who did this; these cowards hide in ambush and commit their treason in silence. It is important for them to know that I desire their demises to be slow and painful, and that I entertain a diverse collection of objects both blunt and sharp to this end.

Jacobsen: Why is punishing “missbehavers” important alongside “no taboo topics” and “absolute freedom of speech” (Ibid.)?

Cooijmans: Again, an important reason is that good people will leave if bad people are allowed to have their way unpunished, and then you are left with an all-bad group. This is always a risk for a naive, good-natured person like I am. If you are kind to the bad, you are cruel to the good. Softness on crime is cruel, death penalty the epitome of humaneness.

An early illustration of this phenomenon took place in my primary school days, when there were periods when only the naughtiest boy of the village wanted to play with me and all other children avoided me because of the company I was in; a company that I tolerated in my naivety and kindness, which were of course taken advantage of by this person. I remember that the teacher, in such a period, once stated in class, “They that touch pitch will be defiled”, looking at me. These periods were interrupted when this boy was away, interned in some special school or youth prison; this was actually the case most of the time.

Jacobsen: How many Glia Society members have been temporarily removed from the electronic mail forum?

Cooijmans: I have not kept count, also because the forum was often administrated by others than I so I did not know about the removals, but I suspect it is in the order of five to ten.

Jacobsen: How many Glia Society members have been permanently removed from the electronic mail forum?

Cooijmans: See the previous answer; I am certain it is less than five.

Jacobsen: You give the reasoning for the rule of only quoting the passage(s) for response and no more.[3] On new topics, Glia Society members should “change the subject line to reflect the new topic” (Ibid.). What confusions happen when subject lines are not changed for a new topic introduction?

Cooijmans: Well, obviously the subject line does not reflect the contents of the message then, and recipients can not decide whether or not to read the message based on its subject line, and are thus forced to potentially waste time by opening it.

Jacobsen: You stated, “It must be possible to identify you from your entry in the member list of the forum. If you use a non-telling e-mail address while withholding your name, you must put your name under every message sent to the forum so that other members know who you are, and also see to it that the non-telling address is mentioned in your member information for the official Glia Society member list (that is, in the information you enter in the Registration form).” (Ibid.) How often do forum contributors or participants try to hide their identities?

Cooijmans: Too often. There are always one or two such cases current, and it is surprisingly hard to make them understand what they are doing wrong. When such a person is contacted and alerted to the fact that the person can not be identified as a member, the response is almost invariably like, “Oh, but you know me! I am [this or that person]”. And then they act as if the problem is solved. But it is not, because all other members can still not identify the person by comparing the person’s forum name to the member list. One then one has to painstakingly explain that either the member list entry or the forum name will need to be adapted to make them match and identification possible; bizarrely, this fails in almost all cases. These people appear unable to understand that privately telling one person who they are does not help others to know who they are. They can not understand that not everyone knows magically to which identity their non-telling forum name corresponds. They can not “curl back on themselves”, can not understand self-reference, have no associative horizon of significance. In fact I do not remember one single case where the person indeed adapted either forum name or member list entry. Such people are then either removed from the forum or the case lingers on for some more time with only the forum inspector privately knowing who they are.

A related problem is that of people registering with the candidate registration form to take a test and then later submitting answers anonymously or under another name. When I then ask them to state who they are so that I can identify them against the earlier test registration entry, they tend to be surprised: “But I already submitted the registration form! You already have my information!?” They can not understand that without also stating their identity when sending answers it is not possible to CONNECT them to the earlier information, which is why all tests, in the instructions section, explicitly and emphatically ask to provide name, age, sex, and electronic mail address when submitting answers. Especially age is often left out, in about half of the submissions. People think that providing their date of birth one time suffices, and do not comprehend that mentioning their age with every submission helps to identify them AGAINST the already registered information.

I learnt these things the hard way; in the old days, it would happen that a test was taken by, say for example, a Miranda de la Hoya. Later on, a candidate named Vera Cardinal took the test. Again later, Miranda Cardinal gave it a shot. Then, Veracruz de la Jolla showed up. Finally, years later, Miranda Veracruz de la Jolla Cardinal came along and the four entries could be fused. Thus, they create multiple entries in the database and trick you into retests. That is why it is needed to identify oneself with every test submission against the existing registration; to prevent multiple entries and retests. Very occasionally, I still find such entries and fuse them.

Of course, sometimes one can guess who the anonymous or pseudonymous person is; but it is tricky to rely on the accuracy of such a guess because a painful violation of the third person’s privacy is the result in case one’s guess is off: Ah, John Smith from South-East Utopia, is it not? Good to hear from you again! How are the haemorrhoids doing? And do you still have that little hooker in the freezer you brutally slaughtered last year?

Imagine how the privacy of poor John would be violated if the anonymous person turned out to be someone else after all!

Incidentally, the two names I just gave are fictitious examples. There is absolutely no need to go looking for them.

Jacobsen: You stated, “If you have a private question to a particular person, ask it in a private message to that person, not in a message to the forum.” (Ibid.) Is this a common confusion or mistake by forum contributors or participants?

Cooijmans: In my perception it is still relatively common, like a few times per year. This mistake originates in the early days of electronic mail fora, over twenty years ago, but has not gone away.

Jacobsen: What seem like the motivations for some members ‘repeating their point’ ad nauseam other than “having the last word,” if any? (Ibid.)

Cooijmans: Stubbornness, and the phenomenon of “seizing the moral high ground” and thus granting oneself the right to reprove the other party without ethical or social constraints. These people think, “I am right and the other party is so wrong that anything is allowed and I do not need to be reasonable, ethical, or provide rational arguments”.

Jacobsen: On objective truth and subjective statements, you comprehensively and clearly state:

Words like “truth” and “true” are reserved for information that is objective, factual, proven, absolute, independent of individual perception. Truth is by definition that which does not differ between individuals. For information that is subjective, opinionative, suspected, relative, dependent on individual perception, use words like “opinion”, “view”, or “perception”. For instance, do not say “One person’s truth is not the same as another person’s truth”, or “Truth is subjective”; such rhetorical contradictions in terms erode the word “truth” and confuse meanings of words. Instead, say “One person’s opinion is not the same as another person’s opinion”, or “Truth does not exist; only personal views exist”. This rule in no way curtails what can be said; it merely forces one to think and formulate clearly and consistently, and as such it helps to see possible errors in one’s thinking. Also note that who makes the claim of “Truth does not exist” (or anything equivalent to it) therewith disclaims one’s right to state that anything is or is not true, or to make any assertion at all, as such would constitute self-contradiction. (Ibid.)

How often is this rule ignored by the Glia Society electronic mail forum participants?

Cooijmans: Rarely any more. The quality of the participants has risen considerably over the years, and in my view this is a result of (1) sanctions against misbehavers, (2) a sound admission policy with ongoing attention to the functioning of the accepted tests, and (3) the influx of younger generations of members, who appear less affected by neo-Marxist doctrines like “truth does not exist” and “the effect of communication is more important than whether or not the communicated is true”. The last factor (3) may have to do with growing up with the Internet and therefore being exposed to information other than that from the educational system and the mainstream media, both of which are under stringent Marxist control.

Jacobsen: On challenging “the rules of the forum on the forum itself,” has this happened, too? (Ibid.) If so, how often?

Cooijmans: In the past this happened a lot, and that was the reason to instate this rule. Ever since, it has occurred hardly ever.

Jacobsen: You have some “remarks,” too, as follows:

In case one does not wholeheartedly agree with and applaud these rules, one is free to leave the forum and choose other ways of communicating with members; please do that rather than to challenge the rules of this forum;

For further study into civilized forum behaviour, see the excellent and highly recommendable free course “How to participate in an e-mail forum”;

For deeper discussion of a specific topic, general fora like the present one are not ideal, and one is free to start a thematic discussion or activity group devoted to that topic, for which some guidelines are in the relevant document in the members-only web location, in the section “Courses, self-study materials, instructional materials”. (Ibid.)

As usual from you, the remarks are reasonable. What have been the disagreements with the kind remarks if any?

Cooijmans: I do not remember any disagreements with this.

Jacobsen: Finally, what have been the successes and failures of the Glia Society electronic mail forum?

Cooijmans: Successes: In some periods, it has served as a medium for discussion between members, and it has always been useful for announcements. Failures: Because of the tendency of negative behaviour to rise to the surface in an “easy” medium such as electronic mail (like scum floating on water) combined with the tendency of good people to withdraw in the presence of negativity, the atmosphere in the forum has sometimes scared off new members. A tragic example of this occurred when a new member once introduced herself, and one of the forum trolls replied something like, “This forum is dead, [name of new member]. Go away”. The new member was never heard of again. I have to admit, you can make rules against misbehaviour until you weigh an ounce, but there is no way to prevent one hundred percent deliberate sabotage like that.

References

Cooijmans, P. (n.d.). The Glia Society: Electronic mail forum rules. Retrieved from https://gliasociety.org/forum_rules.html.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Administrator, Giga Society; Administrator, Glia Society.

[2] Individual Publication Date: February 8, 2022: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/cooijmans-4; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

[3] “The Glia Society: Electronic mail forum rules” states:

When replying to a message, quote only the passage or passages you are responding to and delete the rest, otherwise the full original message (and anything anyone adds to it) is repeated in all subsequent responses, causing unneeded use of bandwidth and energy, exhaust of harmful gasses into the atmosphere, and annoyance, and resulting in the freight-train-length messages consisting for 99.9 % of layers upon layers of quotations of quotations of quotations of… which we all hate so much. Especially, do not leave in an entire previous message that in itself contains one or more quotations. The latter specification of this rule can in no case be evaded with the defence “I was responding to the entire message”, as that would render this obviously necessary rule powerless.

See Cooijmans (n.d.).

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Dr. Katherine Bullock on Hate, Bill C-21, Hindutva and Coptic Groups, the Nones, and Bigotry: Past Chair, Islamic Society of North America-Canada (ISNA-Canada); Lecturer, Political Science, University of Toronto at Mississauga (4)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/02/08

Abstract

Katherine Bullock is a TV host for Sound Vision Foundation’s Canadian Muslim News and Director of Special Programs. She is also a Lecturer in the Department of Political Science, University of Toronto at Mississauga. Her teaching focus is political Islam from a global perspective, and her research focuses on Muslims in Canada, their history, contemporary lived experiences, political and civic engagement, debates on the veil, media representations of Islam and Muslims, and Muslim perspectives on Basic Income. She is currently President of Compass Books, dedicated to publishing top-quality books about Islam and Muslims in English. Her own books include: Muslim Women Activists in North America: Speaking for Ourselves, and Rethinking Muslim Women and the Veil: Challenging Historical and Modern Stereotypes which has been translated into Arabic, French, Malayalam, and Turkish. Her latest research was published by the Yaqeen Institute and is a study of zakat in Canada. She is past President of the Tessellate Institute and the Islamic Society of North America, Canada. Originally from Australia, she lives in Oakville, Canada, with her husband and children. She embraced Islam in 1994. She discusses: hate; discrimination; the levels of Muslim community dialogue regarding Bill C21; Hindutva groups; Coptic groups; rallies and demonstrations; the relationships between Indigenous communities and Muslim communities; the most common scriptural interpretations used to justify “genital mutilation, honour killings, or being confined to the home”; the most common justifications for the notion of ‘Islam oppresses women’; Canadian Muslim women subject to the same issues of anorexia and dangerous cosmetic surgery as Canadian non-Muslim women; the different types of Muslim religious schools in Canada; an interbelief day conference via Zoom; the demographics of denominations of Islam in Canada; international politics; the practical reform needed for removal of racial profiling, excessive force, innocent Muslims being killed, and other suffering internationally within the general faith community; the form of anti-black racism by some Muslims; the Canadian government; and forms of bigotry.

Keywords: anti-Muslim racism, Canadian, Coptic, Hindutva, Islam, Katherine Bullock, Muslims, University of Toronto at Mississauga, Uyghurs.

Conversation with Dr. Katherine Bullock on Hate, Bill C-21, Hindutva and Coptic Groups, the Nones, and Bigotry: Past Chair, Islamic Society of North America-Canada (ISNA-Canada); Lecturer, Political Science, University of Toronto at Mississauga (4)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: How is hate defined regarding anti-Muslim racism?

Dr. Katherine Bullock[1],[2]: Anti-Muslim racism is a form of tribalism, in whatever society it appears. It turns Muslims into an Other that is Outcast from the tribe, by virtue of Muslims’ alleged negative attributes such violence and oppression of women. Muslims are hated for being this Negative Other.

Jacobsen: How is discrimination defined regarding anti-Muslim racism?

Bullock: Similar to what I wrote above, if Muslims are Outcasts then they do not have the same rights (or responsibilities) as the Ingroup, and are treated differently – discriminated against.

Jacobsen: What were the levels of Muslim community dialogue regarding Bill C21?

Bullock: Muslims are still discussing, rallying and organising against Bill C21, especially with the latest development whereby a Muslim teacher was “reassigned” to a different job for wearing a headscarf. BillC21 turns religious minorities into second class citizens in Canada. The National Council of Canadian Muslims (NCCM) is part of a legal challenge to that Bill and is fundraising to pay for the challenge. We are all grateful to Brampton Mayor, Patrick Brown, and other mayors across Canada who have committed funds towards the legal challenge as well.

Jacobsen: How are Hindutva groups engaged in this hate and discrimination?

Bullock: Hindutva groups in India are calling for India to treat its Muslims the same way China is committing genocide against the Uyghur. In Canada, the Hindutva groups organise rallies and lobbying against mosques, prayer in schools, and fair representation in textbooks.

Jacobsen: How are Coptic groups engaged in this hate and discrimination?

Bullock: I begin by acknowledging that Copts in countries like Egypt can suffer from hate and discrimination perpetuated by some Muslims. If we are going to oppose hate and discrimination here against Muslims, we have to have consistent principles and oppose it everywhere. Some Copts here are part of interfaith groups working for diversity and inclusion, while others are part of the hate groups, such as the Hindutva described above.

Jacobsen: With these rallies and demonstrations, of Hindutva and Coptic groups, and with the claims by Prime Minister Trudeau of Canada as the first post-national state, do Muslim communities in Canada see this as a longer road or a shorter road to fairer treatment of Canadian Muslims and Muslims in Canada?

Bullock: While I have never done any empirical research with Muslims asking for their feedback about this statement of Trudeau, my sense is that Muslims would see this as a shorter road to fairer treatment. Many times in my interviews, when I ask about their perspectives on “being Muslim” and “being Canadian,” I am struck by how often they praise and admire Canada’s official multiculturalism. Some older immigrants told me that policy was the reason they chose to emigrate to Canada. Some younger Muslims say when they experience racism “that person isn’t being a very good Canadian.”

Jacobsen: How are the relationships between Indigenous communities and Muslim communities?

Bullock: The relationship between Muslims and Indigenous communities is very good. While a lot of Muslims haven’t paid attention to the ongoing legacies of colonial injustices to First Nations, and we could say a relationship is non-existent, others have recognised the similarities in colonial experiences and current discriminatory treatment in media representation, policing and systemic racism. There are dialogue and support efforts all over Canada.

Jacobsen: What are the most common scriptural interpretations used to justify “genital mutilation, honour killings, or being confined to the home”?

Bullock: We can’t easily discuss these three things in the same paragraph. The most important part to understand is that these are social customary practices with little root in “scriptural interpretation.” There is no scriptural basis for genital mutilation or honor killing, these are things Christians, animists, Muslims, and others do across the world. Female genital cutting appears to have existed at the time of the Pharaohs, and in Europe and the United States, clitoridectomy was practised as late as the 1950s to treat hysteria and epilepsy. Some Muslim proponents of clitoridectomy, which is the least mutilating form, find sayings they attribute to Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, in support of the practice. But this is more like searching for a justification for something you already want to do, rather than the other way around. The same goes for the pressures confining some women to the home – there is one verse in the Qur’an used to justify it, but it is a pre-existent practice that has roots in Ancient Greece, India, and Persia. [https://www.unfpa.org/resources/female-genital-mutilation-fgm-frequently-asked-questions]

Jacobsen: What are the most common justifications for the notion of ‘Islam oppresses women’?

Bullock: People look around the world and see Muslim majority societies that don’t give identical rights to men and women, indeed, give women less rights than men: eg right to work, to vote, to drive, to marry with consent, to divorce at will, to have child custody rights, to education, to go out heads uncovered. It’s a long and sorry list. They attribute these inequalities to “Islam,” rather than historical customs.

Jacobsen: For Canadian Muslim women who were born and grew up in Canada, as with non-Muslim women suffering from notions of beauty leading to “anorexia and dangerous cosmetic surgery,” how are these Canadian Muslim women subject to the same issues of anorexia and dangerous cosmetic surgery as Canadian non-Muslim women?

Bullock: Anyone who lives in this society is subject to the same pressures to be thin and beautiful created by consumer capitalism. It is all around, in advertising, in films, and now in the pressures of social media – the “like” counts on Tiktok, Instagram, or Youtube.

Jacobsen: What are the different types of Muslim religious schools in Canada? What ones are actual? What ones are proposed? What ones are entirely the fabrication of anti-Muslim bigots?

Bullock: Muslim religious schools in Canada are of two types: the first, and the most numerous, are those that are registered as private schools, they must confirm to the curriculum guidelines of the province they are in. They offer the standard provincial curriculum and add Arabic and Islamic Studies. The second, and least numerous, are those that offer a focus on memorising the Qur’an, which is an intense programme. As far as I know they offer secular subjects, but they take up less of the regular school day, at least while the student is memorising the Qur’an. Muslim religious schools teach Muslims to be good Muslims and good Canadian citizens. The bigots fabricate the notion that such schools teach hatred of the West.

Jacobsen: If offered to take part in an interbelief day conference via Zoom, would you provide a presentation and take part in a panel to discuss some of these issues?

Bullock: Absolutely, if I am available during the time allotted.

Jacobsen: What are the demographics of denominations of Islam in Canada to clarify and to denude this myth of Islam as a bloc religion? Every community goes through this to some degree, but the Nones and Muslims go through this to a spectacular degree in this country in spite of the sophistication of much of the discourse in the country.

Bullock: Breaking demographic data down to the sectarian denomination is difficult in Canada, since survey questions don’t always ask such specifics.

The most recent summary I have seen, from 2019, pulled together different data sets, and concluded that 64% of Canadian Muslims identified at Sunni, 8% Shia, 10% Other, such as Ismaili or Ahmadi, and 18% had chosen not to identify with any of these.

[Sarah Shah, Canadian Muslims: Demographics, Discrimination, Religiosity, and Voting, Institute of Islamic Studies Occasional Paper Series, 2019, https://tspace.library.utoronto.ca/handle/1807/96775]

Jacobsen: In international politics, there are cases considered religious issues. I see this semi-universally in secular communities. I say this as an independent journalistic analysis and as an independent freethinker. I take part in these communities as an individual and reserve the right, and privilege, to disagree and leave at any time or point of intellectual or moral divergence, as I have done in the past to professional detriment, but moral correctness (from my vantage at the time). One of the most prominent and longstanding is the issue of Israel-Palestine.[3] Some might posit this as a purely religious issue with one religion fighting against another. Yet, on the ground, and in expert analysis, this isn’t the case. It can be part of the confluence of factors, though. How are issues of international politics from an ignorant perspective impacting Muslim communities in Canada, where views about a sociopolitical and human rights become blanketed as religious in nature – thus, feeding back into general prejudices back here, in Canada? You see the point.

Bullock: You raise an excellent and important point. Much of what goes on in international politics is based in tribalism or nationalism. Control over land and resources is usually the key. Religion can get wrapped up into the discursive justifications leaders give for why they want to do what they do. It is not only religion, witness the US wars in the name of freedom or democracy, which is really about control over land and resources, such as oil and minerals. Revenge is often part of it. The USA went to war in Afghanistan to oust the Soviets partly in revenge for “losing” Vietnam. Muslim terrorists most commonly cite political factors behind their revenge violence, such as getting back at the West for the West’s domination and atrocities in the Muslim world. To people ignorant of Western foreign policies’ brutalities, of Islamic history and law, and of the importance of power politics, all of this is simplified and morphed into “Islam” simple, which then causes the negative stereotypes and the Outcasting that we discussed in the beginning of this post.

Jacobsen: What would be the practical reform needed for removal of racial profiling, excessive force, innocent Muslims being killed, and other suffering internationally within the general faith community, e.g., Uyghurs, Rohingya, Kashmiris, and Palestinians? I mean practical reforms within Canada to ameliorate some of these issues.

Bullock: Canada needs to put its money where its mouth is as far as standing up for human rights worldwide. Boycotts, sanctions, diplomatic pressure are among the tools available. To address these human rights crimes inside its borders, Canada can pass legislation that refuses trade if the product is made from forced Uyghur labour. More policy recommendations are available here: https://www.justiceforallcanada.org/

Jacobsen: What is the form of anti-black racism by some Muslims? How is this more a reflection of larger racist and anti-black movements and perspectives within Canadian society impacting Muslim communities?

Bullock: Anti-black racism has an unfortunately long history in the Muslim world. The Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, spoke out against it. It is a scourge not yet overcome. For Muslims in Canada who are anti-black, Canadian anti-black racism would just be overlapping and reinforcing what pre-exists in Muslim social history.

Jacobsen: What has the Canadian government done well vis-à-vis combatting anti-Semitism, anti-Catholic prejudice, and anti-Muslim bigotry? These ones have seen the increases in hate crimes statistics. If the Nones in Canada are anything like the Nones in America, then enormous prejudice and bigotry, and discrimination, happen to them too. Nones here defined as atheists, agnostics, and nothing in particulars.

Bullock: Whenever a government acknowledges racism, discrimination, or bigotry against any group, it is doing well. At least that is better than ignoring or denying, like the Quebec government keeps doing in claiming there is no anti-Muslim racism in Quebec. The first step to fix a problem is to be aware of it. Organising Parliamentary committee hearings, National Summits, self-education and being able to address such topics in the media are important first steps. But policy must follow talk. There are many who are still skeptical that governments do little but talk and photo-ops at mosques. Again, many Muslims are impressed with Brampton Major, Patrick Brown, who has endorsed the NCCM’s recommendations for municipalities addressing Islamophobia.

Jacobsen: What forms of bigotry seem the most entrenched and probably requiring the longest time to combat in Canada impacting Muslims across the denominational spectrum and throughout the country?

Bullock: Indigenous peoples have battled racism since colonisation, Jews have been battling anti-Semitism in Canada since the 1700s, Blacks have contended with anti-black racism since slavery in Canada, and Muslims have faced anti-Muslim racism since the 1800s here! Allyships are developing and crucial to support and foster. Economic discrimination is one of the most important to address since it affects people’s ability to live.

Jacobsen: Thank you for the opportunity and your time, Dr. Bullock.

Bullock: Thank you too.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Past Chair, Islamic Society of North America-Canada (ISNA-Canada)LecturerPolitical ScienceUniversity of Toronto at Mississauga; Past President, Tesselate Institute; President, Compass Books.

[2] Individual Publication Date: February 8, 2022: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/bullock-4; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

[3] For resources on this subject based on a large number of educational interviews by me, please review here with the hyperlinks active:

Omar Shakir Sessions (Chronological Order)

Interview with Omar Shakir – Israel and Palestine Director, Human Rights Watch (Middle East and North Africa Division)

HRW Israel and Palestine (MENA) Director on Systematic Methodology and Universal Vision

Human Rights Watch (Israel and Palestine) on Common Rights and Law Violations

Ask HRW (Israel and Palestine) 1 – Recent Events

Ask HRW (Israel and Palestine) 2 – Demolitions

Ask HRW (Israel and Palestine) 3 – November-December: Deportation from Tel Aviv, Israel for Human Rights Watch Israel and Palestine Director

Ask HRW (Israel and Palestine) 4 – Uninhabitable: The Viability of Gaza Strip’s 2020 Unlivability

Ask HRW (Israel and Palestine) 5 – The Trump Peace Plan: Is This the “The Deal of the Century,” or Not?

Ask HRW (Israel and Palestine) 6 – Tripartite Partition: The Israeli Elections, the International Criminal Court (ICC), and SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19

Ask HRW (Israel and Palestine) 7 – New Heights to the Plight and the Fight: Covid-19, Hegemony, Restrictions, and Rights

Ask HRW (Israel and Palestine) 8 (w/ Special Rapporteur on the Situation of Human Rights in the Palestinian Territories Occupied since 1967) – Annexation, International Law, Occupation, Rights, and Settlements

Ask HRW (Israel and Palestine) 9 – When Rain is Law and Justice is Dry Land

Addenda

Ask HRW (Israel and Palestine) Addendum: Some History and Contextualization of Rights

Other Resources Internal to Canadian Atheist

Interview with Dr. Norman Finkelstein on Gaza Now

Extensive Interview with Gideon Levy

Interview with Musa Abu Hashash – Field Researcher (Hebron District), B’Tselem

Interview with Gideon Levy – Columnist, Haaretz

Interview with Dr. Usama Antar – Independent Political Analyst (Gaza Strip, Palestine)

Interview with Wesam Ahmad – Representative, Al-Haq (Independent Palestinian Human Rights Organization)

Extensive Interview with Professor Richard Falk – Fmr. (5th) United Nations Special Rapporteur on the Situation of Human Rights in the Palestinian Territories Occupied since 1967

Extensive Interview with Professor John Dugard – Fmr. (4th) United Nations Special Rapporteur on the Situation of Human Rights in the Palestinian Territories Occupied since 1967

Extensive Interview with S. Michael Lynk – (7th) United Nations Special Rapporteur on the Situation of Human Rights in the Palestinian Territories Occupied since 1967

Conversation with John Dugard, Richard Falk, and S. Michael Lynk on the Role of the Special Rapporteur, and the International Criminal Court & Jurisdiction

To resolve the Palestinian question we need to end colonialism

Trump’s Colonial Solution to the Question of Palestine Threatens the Foundations of International Law

Dr. Norman Finkelstein on the International Criminal Court

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Norwegians of the High-Range Discussion with Erik Haereid, Eivind Olsen, and Tor Arne Jørgensen: Statistician & Actuarial Scientist; Chair, Mensa Norway; 2019 Genius of the Year – Europe, World Genius Directory (4)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/02/08

Abstract

Erik Haereid is an Actuarial Scientist and Statistician. Eivind Olsen is the Chair of Mensa Norway. Tor Arne Jørgensen is the 2019 Genius of the Year – Europe. They discuss: Norwegians view themselves; foreigners; Norway ranks highly on world health, on world peace, and on gender equality; Norway implementing advanced medicine for all citizens; education provided for all in Norway; the NATO alliance; national history of Norway and national pride; national disgrace; excellence versus equity; and science advancement.

Keywords: Erik Haereid, Eivind Olsen, IQ, Mensa, Mensa Norway, Norway, Tor Arne Jørgensen.

Norwegians of the High-Range Discussion with Erik Haereid, Eivind Olsen, and Tor Arne Jørgensen: Statistician &amp; Actuarial Scientist; Chair, Mensa Norway; 2019 Genius of the Year – Europe, World Genius Directory (4)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: How do Norwegians view themselves within the various high-IQ communities?

Erik Haereid: I haven’t asked any, and not thought about how I see myself within these communities. I don’t have any immediate answer to that, but I’ll think about it. 🙂

Tor Arne Jørgensen: Well here one can only speak for oneself, that to the extent that one can be considered as members within the various high range community should again be considered best by others. What one then sees from one’s own point of view of the roles of others, is experienced as a careful search for confirmations of some kind in the degree of strengthening the self.

Eivind Olsen: I don’t have any scientific details on this. We’re over 2000 members in Mensa Norway, and we have all sorts of people so I’d guess their view of themselves is also quite diverse.

Jacobsen: How do foreigners seem to view Norway?

Haereid: I haven’t asked any of them either. In general, my unqualified guess is that some see Norway as a remote, rich and beautiful country, with deep fjords and steep mountains, cold weather and people they really don’t know. Once, I met a French couple in Paris, or maybe I read about it in a paper, I don’t remember, and they asked me, or the journalist, if there were polar bears in the streets of Oslo. Paris is not at equator or in Antarctic; it is in the heart of Europe at the 49th parallel north, and Oslo is at 60th. Shouldn’t they know better? Or maybe I, or the journalist, just didn’t catch their joke. Maybe some see Norwegians as mildly provocative? I hope not. Bad humor, maybe. We are quite kind, really.

Jørgensen: What one experiences even from what is being said even from those who visit our elongated country, is that we seem shy but generous. Furthermore, we emerge as a bit naive and complacent, but not striking in such a sense, where a nourishing glimpse of national romance can be viewed. The scandinavian origin seems exciting, given their scenic surroundings and long fjords.

Olsen: That of course depends on the foreigners. I believe we’re often seen as a country with a fairly good gender equality, a social profile with public health care, a mix of urban and rural societies, and with some amazing mountains and fjords. And often with a decent-to-good English vocabulary and a decent-to-bad pronunciation of the same. 🙂

Jacobsen: Norway ranks highly on world health, on world peace, and on gender equality. These amount to internationalist values tied to modernist views, scientific rationalism employed in medicine and engineering, and cosmopolitan attitudes towards social and professional relations. Why is Norway setting such a mark on the world as a visionary nation?

Haereid: The main factor is the Scandinavian and Nordic way of thinking about egalitarian and social balance; to succeed, i.e., live good lives alone and among others, you can’t be too selfish or too empathic. If “success” is defined as being the best, richest and prettiest, you will lose in the end. Prosperity is not only about individual success. Some Norwegians move abroad, primarily to USA, because they want to succeed in the meaning of not sharing; “my effort is my property”. Maybe that gives you some kind of satisfaction in the short run, but as bricks in a cathedral it doesn’t last. If you suppress women, men, children, poor, sick or any ethnic minority you will, at some point, be stabbed and regret. It’s always some kind of payback in Nature.

It’s about gaining an equilibrium; matching opposites; prosperity and hunger, safety and danger, sense and sensibility, warm and cold, and create a cultural web over time that fulfills the variety in the human color chart. I think the Norwegian landscape, changes in weather and variation in seasons, our brutal and also nice history, our historical economic struggle and our recently prosperity, our trust to each other, and our mental surplus that make us believe in the good in people, are all elements in this. We feel quite safe as to healthcare; if we get sick or wounded, we trust that someone will take care of us whether we are rich or poor. We feel in some ways like a big family. Even though there are some double standards, we are decent concerning human rights.

Free education, as an important example, lower the threshold for everyone to gain knowledge and wisdom, and makes the society wiser and more prosper in probably almost every way.

I think the combination of being a young, small and hungry nation (we were completely or partly controlled by Denmark (from about 1400) and Sweden (from 1814) until 1905) and having internalized the importance of a social balance, is the recipe. It’s about taking and sharing responsibility. Competition has to be games to evolve, and has gone too far when it becomes too important, existential, and violent.

Jørgensen: It is conceivable that the community’s innovation, creative joy and future-oriented camaraderie in a positive sense are geared towards strengthening common value creation in a transferable and beyond-friendly sense, according to its cosmopolitan understanding.

Olsen: I’m not sure there’s one single reason for those high rankings. Regarding world peace and being able to sometimes act as a mediator, I guess it helps that we have such a small population that we can’t ever be seen as an aggressor. Norway is a fairly secular atheist society, whereas conservative religions have often been used to strip women of the same rights as men had: “Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord.” (Ephesians 5:22), for example. All the Nordic countries were among the earlier countries that gave women the right to vote in national elections.

Jacobsen: I note Iceland and Finland in these categories too. How do they seem to do it, too?

Haereid: We are almost the same people with the same background. It’s about believing in ones’ abilities and seize what is possible. Doing that is easier when you have to, and no one stops you. I think Island and Finland also has this dawning zeal and hunger, like the Norwegians. We are newly born, sort of, and we discover, limited by the respect of being suppressed. After suppression you can choose to learn from it and at the same time exploit your new-found freedom. It’s not only about being suppressed by other nations or people, but nature, hunger, catastrophes, fear, shame, guilt…

Jørgensen: Based on my rather limited knowledge in accordance with the countries you are hereby referring to, one can only assume that they can be justified on the basis of the same principles as we in Norway can be justified on.

Olsen: I would assume they’re doing it in similar ways, seeing as they are also Nordic countries. Sure, there are some national traits, such as the famous Finnish “sisu”.

Jacobsen: How is Norway implementing advanced medicine for all citizens? How does this improve the society as a whole?

Haereid: It’s controlled by the authorities. Most necessary healthcare is free in Norway, as part of the welfare system. That includes medicines; you don’t have to pay for it. There have been discussions about very expensive medicine, that can improve or prolong lives for instance as to cancer treatment. I assume there is a limit; some medicines are too expensive and are not approved inside the Norwegian healthcare system. Some medicines are not approved of other, more scientific reasons. Some Norwegians travel abroad to buy treatment and medicines that is not provided in Norway.

Obviously, to get the best healthcare and medicine for free is part of making everyone feel more secure, and release people’s energy and make everyone use their abilities.

Jørgensen: As far as Norway and the implementation of advanced medicine for its inhabitants are concerned, we are at the average of the rest of the Nordic region and the western world. Comes a bit to short here within the mentioned topic, to be able to give a more accurate picture, but based on what can be sought and what is covered by the media, general health development in Norway has much to thanks those who are outside our own national borders. Yes, we have set ourselves high goals for an improved national health service, but in the end we only follow natural western attitude-based medical development with all the consequences that this entails.

Olsen: All the Nordic countries have universal health care, funded by the state (i.e. by the people paying taxes). It ensures that you get access to some level of health care. As long as most people are bearing the burden of paying taxes, it all works out quite well. Could it be working even better? Of course. But it could also be working a lot worse.

Jacobsen: How is education provided for all in Norway? How does this improve the society as a whole?

Haereid: In Norway, most education, also higher education institutions, are run by the state or municipality, and are gratis. This is a major part of our welfare-system; to provide everyone the education they want, for free. As to higher education, Norway follows the European standard of three years for Bachelor, two years for Master and three years for PhD degrees.

It’s nine years of compulsory education. This is approximately the same in the rest of Europe. Many go to high school (videregående skole), which lasts three years (15 to 18 years). You also have a lot of vocational schools and folk high schools, if you want some other inputs than pure, traditional education. In general, Norwegian education institutions are of top class.

When you lower the obstacles for taking an education, and make it inviting for everyone that wants it, you get a general higher degree of educated and wise people. In societies where money or anything else is an obstacle, you sort people based on something that is not correlated with abilities, and you get people that in sum is less knowledgeable than in societies where everyone gets more opportunities. Societies with high obstacles as to education are into a larger degree divided into social hierarchies and polarization than the others, and this leads to a stupider society; the bigger the difference between high and low educated, between rich and poor, the more conservative and less knowledgeable is the society.

What is problematic with let’s say egalitarian societies like the Norwegian is that one tends to equalize everyone; if you have a talent, some inner drives that you want to enhance and develop, you also have to get some more education and opportunities than people who don’t have those abilities (like high intelligence). This is not about constructing elites, but letting people have the best ground to build their lives on. We have to differ between environments where people get the opportunity to exploit their abilities, and the glorification of such environments. When the glorification becomes the ambition, we lose wisdom. In general, it’s about giving as many as possible, everyone, the optimal opportunities to develop personally in addition to contribute to optimizing the lives for everyone in the society; creating av win-win situation for each one and everyone. It’s about nurturing each one’s abilities and skills and not nurturing the protection procedures of one’s abilities and skills; everyone has the choice between becoming wiser or protecting their wisdom towards the others.

One problem with elitist societies in general, is that they suppress a majority (or minorities) and through that reduce the total production and development, and at the same time slow down their own development because they are too satisfied with status quo and too occupied by protecting their elitist position.

Elitism is a product of overcompensation, which in this context is a product of not being seen and respected. Human haven’t found, still, any major way to fulfill humans need for respect within the social realm. Letting everyone evolve with their abilities and talents, their wishes and needs, in respect from everyone else, is the key to evolve optimally as society and individuals. And to manage to see one has to be seen. I believe in some sort of egalitarian way of constructing the society, to make this happen.

Jørgensen: As for the paradigmatic constitutional regarding the straight forward change-based education, grounded within its foundations as to the distribution-sought parallels with the intention of leveling out its primary mandate. Does it then serve its ordinary and intentional parameter from their institutional parables? No, not in any way, by grounds of their manufacturing excitations of indelible intellects fueled on by their already associated philanthropic established parables. Now we find ourselves at an political/educational crossroad, where we must decide to enter a new political charter of ithin forward altruistic inaccuracies for both branches of opportunistic incentives at the intersection of conservative jurisprudence.

Olsen: Everyone here have an obligation to get some basic education (currently that’s 1st to 10th grade), and they have a right to use the public education system. They can choose to go to private schools or get homeschooled instead but most follow the public system. The public education is free (or, funded in the same way as universal health care: taxes). Higher education at the university level is also for all intents and purposes free (you guessed it: funded by taxes). Sure, you’ll have to pay a semester fee of perhaps 600 NOK (approx. 65 USD) and buy some study material, books etc, but it’s not a large sum. There are also state-funded grants and loans for students, allowing also those without a wealthy background to get an education and increasing the chance of accomplishing social mobility. The top 5 countries on the World Economic Forum’s “social mobility index rankings, 2020” are Denmark, Norway, Finland, Sweden and Iceland.

Jacobsen: What is the state of the NATO alliance now?

Haereid: With an American and general will to pay and contribute to the alliance, it is a necessary support beam and protector of the member states. It’s important to manifest NATO as a friendly alliance, intended to preserve peace and not to make wars. It’s about how NATO is promoted. I think Jens Stoltenberg is a Secretary General that contributes to such an organization. Communication with the world outside NATO is of high importance to maintain and preserve the peaceful project NATO is and should be.

Jørgensen: Simply put, Allied insecurity, due to their shaky interpolitical support, confusing global involvements and lavish plodding approaches on a grand scale…

Olsen: My impression is that it’s “somewhat flimsy, but holding up”. There has been talk about expelling Turkey from the alliance, and Donald Trump has also expressed interest in withdrawing the USA from NATO. I guess time we’ll have to wait and see what happens.

Jacobsen: What are some important points of reflection for national history of Norway and national pride?

Haereid: We are a young nation. We have fought for our freedom until after WW2, and then we started to climb, like the whole world did, but maybe we did it more than others, because we lacked history and tried hard to establish some kind of national feeling of affiliation. We celebrate our Constitution Day 17. May each year, like no one else do. Some nations ignore their national day, others spice it with military parades. We arrange family gatherings and children’s parades all over the nation; it’s a beautiful gesture and celebration. It reminds us of that we have to construct a strong feeling of national connection, because we lack history.

We are proud of our diverse nature and distinct seasons, actually, and that we have managed to exploit some of our natural resources, like fish, oil and gas, and made it easier for us concerning the welfare-system. At the same time, we want to contribute making the world free from fossil fuel, and as an example, Norway is one of the leading nations as to driving electrical cars.

We trust each other; other nations might see us as naïve in that regard. I think we are proud of our athletes, too proud if you ask me. 🙂

Jørgensen: In short, one can first highlight national pride, then the pride in being a weather-beaten people with lots of courage. We keep to traditions, search externally for new knowledge, an are regarded as bridge builders between nations in addition to be revired for holding the humic value as a base fundation.

Olsen: I think it’s important to know that Norway was part of a union for over 600 years, under both Danish and Swedish rule, and only gained full independence from Sweden as recent as in 1905.

Regarding pride, that depends on who you ask. Some will reminisce about the Olympics at Lillehammer in 1994 and how “we” won some medals. Personally, I don’t understand how it’s possible to take personal pride in what someone else have accomplished. I’ve never been playing when the local football team won a match, and I’ve never participated in the Olympics, so why should I take any pride in that?

Jacobsen: What about points of national disgrace in history or into the present?

Haereid: Even though we are a young nation, we were part of the Vikings and the Viking Age. That’s nothing to be proud of.

On our trip to feel national, we now and then exaggerate, trying things too hard, and listen too much to and copy other nations. Like the USA. I like many of the features of the USA, but it’s still also an imperialistic and white culture, unfortunately. I hope Norway can continue to develop the egalitarian way of thinking; we are not completely there yet, and there are double standards along the road, but I think we have something going on.

I think Norwegians claim to be better, in the meaning of good and altruistic, than they are. But I also think there is some true wishes behind this empathic drive. Norwegians want to be good, empathic, but have some distance left to go. It’s annoying with this flamboyant self-righteousness. It comes with the combination of power and insecurity.

Jørgensen: Will point out 3-4 elements of what is facilitated and thus can only be described by what concerns the stain on one’s national pride. First and foremost is our own present day “Law of Jante”, which is solely to suppress one’s self-esteem completely. Next is the widespread triangle trade by involvement to secure us norwegians sugar and other desirable goods about 300+ years back in time, third is fifty to a hundred years further back in time during the witch-burning, all the hundreds of women and men who were accused of collaborating with evil forces. Finally, the most obvious misconception of them all, our Viking background, where the theft, killing and conquest of another’s property and land is to this day honored as heroic, when everything else is the truth, a true stain on national, Scandinavian and Nordic scale.

Olsen: The Norwegian assimilation policy was for a long time not very nice to the Sámi people. In more recent times we have the bombing of Libya in 2011 which I find somewhat dubious.

Jacobsen: Some discussions in the past have oriented around excellence versus equity division in terms of the innovation and science development in the midst of the welfare system versus the free market system. One values, so it’s assumed, health of all citizens while the other values advancement of the wealth via the valuation of science and technology innovation with utility towards the market. Is this a fair characterization? Is excellence versus equity truly a division?

Haereid: This is basically about motivation and access/distribution. If you have a system that demotivates each and every one, the total amount of advancement is obviously less compared to a more motivating system. It has been discussed since dawn if advancement is good per se. But if you have some kind of decent moral and adjusting compass, some rules that controls innovation into some but not too severe degree, you will still have the motivational element intact. People like to invent, to discover and reveal; that’s our nature. We can’t stop that, nor by making the distribution of the results more equal.

We need different motivational elements, i.e., capital in the general meaning of it, that both preserve the general motivation in as many as possible (because this maximizes the positive outcome) and distributes the outcome fairly; gives as many as possible access to the result, without losing motivation in the invention- and production process. It’s about “what’s in it for me”.

Elitists live on an illusion that they are better than other people. This is one of human’s biggest issues. People often misunderstand by mixing worth and abilities; we are all different with different abilities, needs and talents. It’s like saying that a nurse is less worth than a doctor; that’s an illusion. But people tend to believe in it. Would equalizing nurses and doctors make the MD-education less attractive? Or would it channelize more empathic (and perhaps intelligent) people into the MD-education (I guess there are quite an amount of MD’s today that lack empathy, that are MD’s because they want the glory and money and not because they want to live by Hippocrates’ intentions about helping sick people)?

I think elitists are driven by the same factors as drug abusers; you don’t need it, but it feels like you do. A lot think seriously that they will lose motivation if they have to share the values of the outcome of their inventions, productions and results. We have to rethink the concept of power. It’s a cliché, but it’s about a necessary balance between ego and community, between yourself and the others. When we invent a system, which assure us that sharing is not losing but on the contrary, we have reached a milestone in human evolution.

I think life is not about living forever, but living good; including having a as good health as possible within reason. It’s not about living on behalf of each other, but share into some degree and find the most suitable social and personal fit. Living good lives includes some sort of basic income, health care and prosperity relative to what humans have invented at that time in history. Today almost everyone owns some sort of a smart communication device. If there are enough supplies, no system should prevent anyone from getting what they need.

There are thousand reasons why a person can’t provide what he, she or they need in life; reasons that should not be only that person’s responsibility. When the system nurtures this kind of capitalistic exchange, it produces greed and irresponsibility. These are human features that can be controlled, like alcohol can be controlled before one move into abuse. To claim that greed is uncontrollable, is like giving your children alcohol and encourage them to drink because it feels so good. But parents usually don’t do this to their children. So why do they motivate them to be greedy?

Egalitarianism is not about stopping producing things, but changing the factors which motivates us to produce. When pure egocentric needs are the motivation, and the system motivates us to be mean narcissistic human creatures that deviates from what we could be, warm human beings, we become that evil creature as a culture and individually. We are not born with empathy towards people that we don’t know or care for. We know that. To feel empathy, we have to connect those others to something we relate to and care for. This is one of our limitations, and therefore something we have to take into account.

Jørgensen: Will probably see me a little agree with the value base spun from the basis around alturistic metafunctional creation that is both viewed with orders for scalable investments, as well as an experience of flip-floppers overwintering. It should thus be pointed out the importance of not thinking about the control function experience of aberration for the maintenance of the scholastic obvious. No, let us avoid the obvious misconceptual impression of the espressiveness of impartiality, but rather grasp the idea of a double jeopardy in the hope of liberating justice from the intentional intuition of dissent.

Olsen: As is often the case, some sort of balance seems to prove the good tradeoff. Assuming there are limited resources (personell, funding, time) available, there will always be some competition for those resources. If you give all those resources to “one side only” the other side will suffer. Put all the best and brightest minds to a single task and you might eventually end up solving one problem while creating several other problems due to neglect.

Jacobsen: If this division exists between excellence and equity, what science advancement is lost? What systems could better integrate the two, seriously?

Haereid: No science advancement is lost; it’s not achieved yet. We are a young species, that are going to change the most common human perception of the nature and evolution process. We are not there yet. Human mainstream science believes in absolute brutality, still, and as long as it does, human have no reason to be nice and kind; it doesn’t pay off. We are not born empathic, but with an empathic potential. We have to evolve towards practical empathy, and not ignore it because some people mean that it’s absolute true that human are egocentric megalomaniacs with no real compassion for others. That’s a big lie; we have a great potential to be nice and respectful.

Pure communism and capitalism have failed. You can’t build a system without the right motivation. You can’t force people, only direct them; people behave like water. Compassion, sharing, is not contradictory to egoism; we have to evolve a system that combine person and persons. You don’t have to brake production, i.e., human activities, to be compassionate. On the contrary. We have to build a system that understands that there are enough of everything we need. Science and technology will provide us all we need e.g., food. We are still in the archetypical “lack of supplies” mentality; in the mentality of fighting for one’s goods. That’s history in the future. It’s more of a paramount mental change than a system change; the practical solutions follow the mentality. It’s about giving without the experience of losing.

Jørgensen: With a mix of economic directions that we in Norway have today among other nations also within the Nordic platform, a mixed economy is preferable. This means that there may be better solutions to promote, as well as safeguard its resolutions. Final conclutives are defined on the basis of what is in the line of prohibition with the implicative factors that are drawn up in the approving statutes, this is what one is then left with and which must then be loosely re-evaluated in order for an improved state to emerge from the freemarket economy and its opposite counterpart in the state-controlled planned economy forum where it is kept in the idea of anti-establishmentarianism.

Olsen: It’s not really possible to say which advancements are lost. And it might be just as well to also ask “what science advancement is gained”.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Member, World Genius Directory.

[2] Individual Publication Date: February 8, 2022: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/norway-4; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Anthony Sepulveda (Brown) on Recapturing Everything: Member, World Genius Directory (11)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/02/01

Abstract

Anthony Sepulveda (Brown) is a Member of the World Genius Directory. He discusses: intellectual interests; mockery and ridicule; a more balanced approach to life’s issues; more detailed and involved artistic productions; stopped regular sessions at church; White Christian Nationalists; step-father; a “God” and “the Grand Design”; Naturalism; human nature; a “soul”; Tango; “overall satisfaction” in life; the realization of death; favourite activity with niece; long-term social and environmental stability issues; “relatively unusual form” of the ‘might makes right’ ethic in place; an equal consideration for future generations; human identity; environmental stability; critical thinking; Khan Academy; very tall; average intelligence and high intelligence; the high-IQ communities can take lessons from these narratives; the high-IQ community; the qualities of this poor condition of the high-IQ communities; the fascination with certificates in the high-IQ communities; an individual member of the high-IQ; community is interested in getting involved in real solutions to the problems of their locale or the world; real contributions to community; cheating on the alternative tests; the alternative tests tend to inflate the scores of testees; Mensa International; the stagnant condition of the high-IQ community; alternative tests; Liam Millikan; the most impressive alternative test-takers known in the high-IQ communities; people disillusioned with the state of the high-IQ communities; random question; older individuals; superficial thinking in some of the high-IQ communities; any further controversies; the creation of alternative tests; the Tango affair; the extended sense of moral relativism; Derek; Heidi; Jodi; Elaine; Julia; mother; Jess; Harry; and the lesson in moving on, moving forward, and looking ahead.

Keywords: Anthony Sepulveda, God, high-IQ, human nature, intelligence, Liam Millikan, Mensa International, naturalism, Tango, World Genius Directory.

Conversation with Anthony Sepulveda (Brown) on Recapturing Everything: Member, World Genius Directory (11)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: This will be the final session. Let’s recap from the first session to the tenth: An Interview with Anthony Sepulveda on Background and Intelligence (Part One)An Interview with Anthony Sepulveda on Life and Death (Part Two)An Interview with Anthony Sepulveda on Bucket List and Culture (Part Three)An Interview with Anthony Sepulveda on Academic Institutions, Khan Academy, and Profound Gifts (Part Four)Conversation with Anthony Sepulveda (Brown) on the Art and State of IQ Tests: Member, World Genius Directory (5)Conversation with Anthony Sepulveda (Brown) on Intellectual Function and Personality, Formal Mental Illness, Narcissism, Motivation, AtlantIQ-UNICEF, Jeffrey Ford, Societal Renewal, and a Holy Grail of the High-IQ Communities: Member, World Genius Directory (6)Conversation with Anthony Sepulveda (Brown) on Liam Millikan and Lessons: Member, World Genius Directory (7)Conversation with Anthony Sepulveda (Brown) on An Affair, Psychological Dynamics, and Ethical Considerations: Member, World Genius Directory (8)Conversation with Anthony Sepulveda (Brown) on Depression, Love, Recovery, and Lessons: Member, World Genius Directory (9), and Conversation with Anthony Sepulveda on Abortion, Relational Ethical Quandaries, and Mothers: Member, World Genius Directory (10). We’ve covered a wide range of material.

The eleventh session’s questions will be asked in review of parts one through ten, chronologically. You mentioned an isolated existence apart from the society in a dual-breadwinner household. Those households can make for easy self-isolation, e.g., as in the middle-upper class homes of the ‘grass-eater men’ of Japan. Similarly, you went into college and dropped out, choosing to self-educate now. What was the minor/major at the time? What have been the intellectual interests of 2021? Any planned for 2022?

Anthony Sepulveda (Brown)[1],[2]*: I wanted to pursue mathematics. But was placed in an information sciences program that I was ill suited to. Which, alongside the myriad reasons I mentioned in part 1, inspired me to leave.

Since then, I’ve made it a habit to always have something of interest to work towards; often in the form of a research to perform, a project to complete, etc. – at present date (Feb/1/2022), I’m writing a mystery novel, preparing a number of small projects for peer review this April and trying to develop the personal habits required to heavily reduce my weekly alcohol consumption.

Jacobsen: Fat teens, typically, endure mockery and ridicule. Was this the case for you? If so, did this exacerbate further self-isolation?

Sepulveda: Not that I recall, thankfully. Not everyone is so fortunate.

Jacobsen: You said, “I can’t bear to rely on others for anything important. Whatever goes wrong, I’ll do everything in my power to solve it on my own. It’s only after I’ve exhausted all my effort that I’ll ask for help. And even then, I’ll feel guilty about it.” Have you made any effort to overcome – even getting some therapeutic assistance or intervention – to find a more balanced approach to life’s issues?

Sepulveda: I can’t say for certain. My life has been quite stable for a long time now and I rarely need any kind of assistance.

Jacobsen: What have been some of the more detailed and involved artistic productions by you? Can you provide some examples, e.g., images or scans of sketches?

Sepulveda: Of course. I specialize in abstract art across several different media (painting, drawing, photography and duct tape), many of which have been published across several media outlets (including both platforms online and in a few magazines). A number of examples have been attached below.

Jacobsen: When you stopped regular sessions at church in early adolescence, what happened to social life? I am told by the ex-religious of the rejection by community and loss of friends, even a lover and family, because of it, i.e., exemplifying a tribalism inherent in religiosity.

Sepulveda: My social life didn’t really change. If anything, it improved. I was fortunate enough not to have any close relationships with anyone so unreasonable as to sever a friendship over a simple difference of opinion.

Jacobsen: Any thoughts of White Christian Nationalists in America now? Those in a demographic slide to irrelevancy based on a voiding of overwhelming dominance of the political activism, finances, and demographic numbers in decades prior to the 2020s. Some in the high-IQ communities harbour such views or deny such views, as in rejecting the titles, while publicly expressing the views, prominent and not. It’s akin to the viewing of racists using IQ arguments to bolster racist views, which makes sense, of course, from their point of view: Racists will use anything to justify their ideological stances and prejudices.

Sepulveda: Bigotry of any kind is, by definition, unreasonable and not something I respect to any degree. From my experience and observation, IQ has nothing to do with your ethnic background or even one’s general beliefs. If anything, it comes down to one’s motivation and imagination and how they use them to cope with their social environment.

And I personally believe that religion has no place in politics. At least until someone can definitively prove which one is real and end all the senseless behavior inspired by strong beliefs.

Jacobsen: I was thinking about your relationship with your step-father. There is a sense of mutuality and respect between the two of you. The hinge is your mother and her happiness. What other lessons can be derived from the role of a father for a stepfather in relationship with a non-biological son where respect, mutual trust, and common goals (mom’s happiness) are present?

Sepulveda: The best thing he showed me (by his own actions more than anything else) was not to try to be something I’m not. A quick example – he’s never tried to fill my father’s position. He offered, but never imposed his beliefs or opinions on me or my siblings. If one of us needed him, he was there. But his primary focus was being a good partner to my mother. I’m thankful for that and greatly appreciate him and the role he performs as a part of my family.

Jacobsen: Is faith, in essence, based on an immature pollyanna view of the world with an assertion – or some vague hope – of a “God” and “the Grand Design”?

Sepulveda: I have to say yes. Throughout my life I’ve known many people whose entire understanding of reality balances precariously on the belief in a higher, loving power. It saddens me to see so many otherwise rational people that are too scared to accept their ignorance and reality as it is. But I have little room to judge them. Life can be very stressful and we all need something comfortable to cushion ourselves.

Jacobsen: How would you define the natural, as in Naturalism?

Sepulveda: As that which is and that which can be logically inferred or determined from natural phenomena.

Jacobsen: Are any facets of human nature indeterministic?

Sepulveda: If there are, I don’t see them. All I can do is assure you and anyone reading that wants me to be wrong is that I’ve been proven wrong on many occasions and will continue to keep my eyes and mind open in the future in case I am in this matter.

Jacobsen: What definition of a “soul” makes sense to you? One connected to our physical self. Do you believe in any non-physical parts of the self?

Sepulveda: While many spiritual ideas on the matter make a certain amount of sense, I can’t hold any to be true until I find evidence that souls truly exist at all. Unlike many, I require evidence to form a valid opinion and would rather have questions than faith.

Jacobsen: When you told Tango how much she meant to you, what was her reaction?

Sepulveda: Initially, she’d smile and we’d hold each other close for as long as we could. But the last time we spoke she felt I was trying to manipulate any guilt she had about her choices and, to preserve her relationship with another man, she cut me out of her life.

It still hurts to think about. But my pain has been greatly relieved by the knowledge that my decisions made sense while hers did not. We ended our affair so that she could give her husband one final chance by focusing on marriage counseling. Having another affair benefited no one in the short or long term and went completely against everything she’d been working towards.

Jacobsen: How would you define “overall satisfaction” in life, as this was mentioned as something of greater concern before death – in the second interview sessions?

Sepulveda: I simply want to reach the end of my life with more fun stories than regrets. I feel that’s all I can reasonably expect of reality. Who am I to ask for more?

Jacobsen: What are your priorities in the realization of death? What do you consider your position in the game of life?

Sepulveda: My position is relative to the pieces around me and my priority is the preservation and prosperity of myself and those I care for. Life is brief and fragile. And of course I’ll try to get as much out of it as I can. But if I only succeed in benefiting a few good people, then I can live and die with that.

Jacobsen: What is your favourite activity with your niece?

Sepulveda: I love listening to the things she says. No matter what we’re doing, she can describe the simplest situation in the funniest way. For example, she was three years old when she met my friend Harry’s newborn daughter Cora. Cora was a very calm, sleepy baby and on the day they met Piper got to hold her while Harry and I were doing something in the next room. After looking at her for a few moments, I overheard her say, “She has hair like Uncle.” And I must have laughed for several minutes straight, at least.

Jacobsen: Since the beginning of the interview, what long-term social and environmental stability issues have been made worse, more clearly needing action?

Sepulveda: Outside of my environmental concerns, the biggest issue that’s grown since then (here in America, at least) is the increasing sense of division amongst people along racial, sexual, personal identity and political lines. It’s been a strange couple years (2019-2021) where riots vandalized whole blocks of cities and victims were criticized by onlookers for simply cleaning up the mess left in the wake.

These perceived divisions primarily come from various areas of online social media where complaints can spread and snowball quickly, creating an illusion that these problems are significantly larger than they actually are. Too often, these illusions are enough to scare many businesses and media outlets into implementing changes that the silent majority don’t care for in an attempt to silence the vocal minority. This has caused a lot of problems recently, including the censorship of many people sharing certain opinions, instilling fear that  police should be disbanded (which is absolutely ridiculous) and inspiring some of the most bizarre and violent behavior I’ve seen in my life.

Clearly, we have a lot of work to do.

Jacobsen: What is the “relatively unusual form” of the ‘might makes right’ ethic in place?

Sepulveda: ‘Might makes right’ commonly refers to interpersonal situations (most commonly in prisons, lower class areas and, of course, in nature among animals) where conflicts of interest are resolved using physical force. In these instances, whoever is strongest or most savage usually comes out on top and dictates their will over others tyrannically as the alpha.

In modern times, most interpersonal conflicts are resolved using reason (via discussion, laws enforcement, money or some combination of the three) and who has the advantage is often determined by the social standing or position of authority. Because of this, members of the upper class (especially those of the top 0.1%) have the most privilege and influence over others and results in a social system as tyrannical as any found in nature. There is a plethora of examples of this process occuring throughout history, but I’ll focus on the current state of the U.S..

If you were to ask someone about the American political system, they’d most likely describe it as a democracy. And they’d be incorrect. America is an oligarchy run by the members of the Electoral College and their affiliates. This is a group so influential that they’ve abolished our previous system of checks and balances, giving themselves almost complete freedom to allocate funds as they choose. Coupled with their close ties to big businesses, they’re able to use their political influence to sway insider trading and maximize profits for themselves. So, given the facts that these individuals are among the wealthiest and best protected, who create our laws and can determine their own salaries at will, it seems just as tyrannical as any dynamic found in nature.

And while I can only speak confidently on the status of the country within which I reside, it seems reasonable to presume that human nature is consistent enough for similar dynamics to exist all over the world. The only major differences between them appears to be how open the political leaders of each region are about how the world really works.

This is the nature of the ‘relatively unusual form’ of ‘might makes right’. Because no matter which politician you select (with the exceptions of Mirko Cro Cop and Manny Pacquiao), they will be among the least capable of our species. They’re advantages and positions are determined solely by the circumstances of their birth, the belief of those ‘beneath’ them that they have any real authority and their willingness to do what it takes to maintain their position in the game of life. This is a fairly obvious series of facts and, yet, no one does anything about it. Perhaps that’s due to how well protected these individuals try to be. By why would anyone protect them? Could any amount of personal benefit influence someone’s decision to accept and maintain such corruption?

Jacobsen: How would one apply an equal consideration for future generations as “relative equals”?

Sepulveda: We need to orient ourselves so that we can all exist in a completely sustainable manner. The Earth and it’s environments are the most valuable resources we have, so we need to learn how to maximize their efficiency and reduce all risks of depletion. This will ensure future generations have the same chance we had to have a decent quality of life.

Jacobsen: Does Secular Humanism seem to exemplify personal views most for you? I point to a short series of internationally accepted statements in the Amsterdam Declaration 2002 or exemplified in the life path and personhood of a friend, Nsajigwa I Mwasokwa (Nsajigwa Nsa’sam).

Sepulveda: Yes, I believe strongly that one doesn’t and shouldn’t require an outside force to motivate one’s decision to live ethically.

Jacobsen: If a soul exists, and if it would exist on a ground state of effervescence, or dynamism and transience, what would this mean for reinterpretation of religious perspectives or Pagan views of a soul or a spirit, respectively, as a base of human identity?

Sepulveda: It would be very interesting if that could be proven definitively. As it would imply that, while our external forms look different, we are all parts of the same collective consciousness. I’d like to imagine how this new understanding would bring us all together, but I fear it’d only amount to being another voice in the crowd.

Jacobsen: Are there any other companies than Mycoworks that impressed you, regarding long-term environmental stability?

Sepulveda: There are a number of environmental conservation companies that are doing some wonderful work cleaning the ocean (most notably Clean Ocean).

I’d also like to mention Thorn and the Grey Owl Company. Human trafficking and child abuse are among the very worst things this world has to offer. And while it’s possible that it will continue happening until we go extinct, it’s a small comfort to know that not all those stories end tragically.

Jacobsen: As an example of the radical transformations in education, one might be the reverse classroom. Where, students spend much less time in the class and more time at home, or independently, researching projects and tasks, as assigned. The teacher becomes more of a guide than anything else. Standardization in education can hamper this in being entrenched in its processes and bureaucracy. Everything is structured, which can be good. But everything is, more or less, rigid, which can constrict the learning environment for learners and educators alike. We are seeing this hand being forced with COVID-19. However, if done more progressively, in stages, I could see something of a graduate-level style education as the form of undergraduate education moving forward. Does this seem reasonable to you – having students learn critical thinking through independent semi-guided schooling in a reverse classroom? You alluded to this in one of your answers.

Sepulveda: It would probably work well for many college programs, but I wouldn’t recommend implementing a system like it for all schools. In my opinion, the most important part of attending school is learning about social dynamics and how to talk to, interact with and deal with others. Lacking these experiences would be a massive deficit to the development of one’s personality and maturity and have a terrible impact on their lives.

Jacobsen: Have you jumped back onto the Khan Academy again, yet? I have about 8,000,000 or so points.

Sepulveda: Very impressive. I have not used their services since we spoke about it last.

Jacobsen: You mentioned being very tall. How tall is “very tall” (for your age)? How tall now?

Sepulveda: I grew to over 6 foot in my early teens, almost a full foot taller than average. I’m currently 6′ 3″ (1.9 meters), half a foot taller than average.

Jacobsen: What effects do average intelligence and high intelligence have on personality – differences, similarities?

Sepulveda: It’s difficult to say. Most personality traits developed as a result of your experiences. So I feel safe in saying that the biggest impact it will have is on your confidence and, possibly, your ability to handle stress. If a person has a history of successfully solving or resolving problems (either academic or personal), it stands to reason that it would take more than average to upset them.

Jacobsen: When I worked my way to the Executive Director and Editor-in-Chief/Chief Editor position of United Sigma Korea as we, YoungHoon Bryan Kim and I, transitioned into United Sigma Intelligence Association in 2019-2020, I trained the president, at the time, in a large number of ways, who was the Senior Membership Officer of the Mega Foundation and an acolyte of its president, Mr. Christopher Michael Langan, at the time. He called me his saviour for the guidance and mentorship while working with him. Then, after a time, I formally resigned. He tried to get me back for about a year or more. As far as I have been informed, both the Mega Foundation (etc.) and USIA leadership, in private in one case, or in part of a public statement online for months in another, appeared to claim to know the reason(s), independently. Here’s the catch, I never said all of the formal reason(s), or much of any of them, in fact, if any. Thus, obvious conclusion, both lied, in different ways – one to an entire community based entirely on image. Also, I was promptly erased from most of the public or digital history of the positions from USIA, except a request to republish some interviews, which was permitted. Some should be wary. Acolytes, even simply sympathizers, of the Mega Foundation, or the former member of the Mega Society and leader too, in fact, have a long history (many years) of online harassing or verbally/psychologically abusing perceived ‘enemies’ of them, which goes to your point about narcissistic tendencies, grandiosity, and the like. Anyone can search the online records for these. Myself, I, as far as I know, was called, a “stupid little idiot” or something like this, by the stupid big meta-idiot. Some sympathetic individuals who have done interviews have chosen to become anonymous; some talk about changing a lot and evolving a different outlook. People can take a test and get a big head about it – so to speak. It’s something to be mindful about if wanting to enter the community, as such, and become a responsible leader. The academically qualified, intelligent wife was nice to me, though. As a rule of thumb, it’s similar – not the same – to some of the extreme tribalism and in-group/out-group behaviour of religious zealots, particularly majority white sects of Christianity in America against everyone else. They seem as if mirrors, as in East and West cultural manifestations, of similar phenomena. For myself, I self-publish some productions, have luck to do interviews, and work mostly blue-collar jobs. I’m, basically, a nobody. So, you don’t have to listen to me. Nonetheless, for what it’s worth, I trust members of the high-IQ communities can take lessons from these narratives. It was an interesting experience. I only had myself to rely on, in those instances. Any comments or thoughts on this theme?

Sepulveda: Aside from the positions you previously held within the organizations mentioned, my experiences have been nearly identical. I was associated with several people you alluded to (the heads of the Mega Foundation and USIA) for a short while, but was excommunicated for voicing an unpopular opinion (being pro choice) in one and revealing evidence that supported a dissenting individual in the other. Both cases were quite disappointing because I didn’t see anything wrong with my actions and was open to discussing both matters if I was. But, after reviewing the psychological evidence I’d gleaned from my experiences with these individuals, I feel it’s safe to assume that cultural differences likely motivated one while shear ego motivated the other.

Jacobsen: Is the high-IQ community still in “very poor condition”? Are there any other reasons than personal self-esteem enhancement in general?

Sepulveda: I am not aware of any major changes that may have occurred recently. It still seems like a place to collect new certificates for previous performances.

Jacobsen: What are the qualities of this poor condition of the high-IQ communities?

Sepulveda: The community lacks of a sense of cohesive direction or purpose. Outside of the few individuals looking to use the group’s collective experience for the benefit of others, there’s nothing particularly noteworthy about its members.

Jacobsen: What is the fascination with certificates in the high-IQ communities? I speak only as an orbiting rock – some might say, “Dense as” – in the Oort Cloud, but still…

Sepulveda: Honestly, I don’t see the appeal at this point. They’re essentially just participation trophies for sports you used to play.

Jacobsen: If an individual member of the high-IQ community is interested in getting involved in real solutions to the problems of their locale or the world, what is the first step?

Sepulveda: First, identify which issues are important to you. Then look for local or online groups that work to resolve said issue. If they exist, join them and try to work with them to be as efficient as possible. If they don’t exist locally, consider founding such a group yourself.

Jacobsen: What types of things can advance making real contributions to community – local and global – on the part of a member of the high-IQ community?

Sepulveda: I tried to call attention to the myriad of problems hampering the community and offered several solutions that would greatly legitimize their claims of genuine intellectual superiority. But many people (especially the test designers whose works I’ve criticized) wouldn’t hear it. They seem to believe that their work is above reproach. One particularly arrogant designer asserts that his tests are ‘perfect’.

Jacobsen: How common is cheating on the alternative tests?

Sepulveda: Very common. I’ve learned that even those who consistently score highest aren’t above creating a false identity to take a test multiple times.

Jacobsen: How many IQ points do the alternative tests tend to inflate the scores of testees?

Sepulveda: According to the psychometrician for the ISPE, the best tests around can only accurately measure up to 150 (about 1:1,000). This is about 40 points lower than many tests being pushed throughout the community at large.

A good example would be my own scores. I got 15/16 questions correct on James Dorsey’s test Cosmic which he equated to a theoretical IQ of 174 based on the data supplied by 30 people.

In comparison, my performance on the Cattell’s Culturally Fair Test was around 135. This test has existed for many years and been taken by several thousand people. More than enough to validate it’s results and almost exactly 40 points lower than my Cosmic score.

Clearly, it’d be both presumptuous and arrogant of me to presume that I am an Olympic level ultra-genius based on the results of a flawed test. But I’d like to take a moment to acknowledge those aware of my ‘status’ or ‘ranking’ on the World Genius Directory.

Initially, I attempted to have myself ranked according to my results on the test Fiqure (162 first attempt). While it’s results are somewhat controversial, I had enough faith in Dr. Katsoulis (who accepts admission into the Helliq Society from the results of this test) to deem it acceptable for submission. But this wasn’t acceptable to the person in charge of the PSIQ website (despite there being several people listed under the ‘genius’ category based on their results from the very same test). So, I submitted my Cosmic results instead.

If the accuracy of the results don’t matter, why shouldn’t I be rated as high as I can? This is the crux of the problems within the High IQ Community.

Jacobsen: What parts of the Mensa International community have you taken part in?

Sepulveda: I used to interact with the international community on social media. But I recently concluded that such outlets can be an unhealthy distraction and deleted my accounts so I can focus on those closer to me.

Jacobsen: With the stagnant condition of the high-IQ community now, what are the alternatives in the forms of artistic or scientific societies, or some other alternatives? Areas or organizations in which intelligent individuals with particular focus can find a common ground and community to make some positive humanistic contribution to society.

Sepulveda: Intelligence is irrelevant if you want to find a group with similar interests. There is a plethora of art galleries and community services you can volunteer for. If you have any specific interest you’d like to pursue, just Google (for example – photography) groups in your area and I guarantee that anyone living in areas of dense enough population can find a group of like-minded individuals.

Within a few minutes of online enquiry, I was able to find several art galleries, political groups, writing and poetry clubs, a plethora of religious and nondenominational services, an adult sex education organization and a group of people that like to make functional mermaid outfits and swim together.

To be fair, I live in the Seattle area and will naturally have more options available to me than average. But I’m confident that anyone with a decent internet connection can find something of interest.

Jacobsen: Any submissions to your alternative test, yet?

Sepulveda: Yes. After a couple years there have been four submissions from three people. The highest score at the time of this interview is 25/50.

Jacobsen: Any further updates from the fallout of the Liam Millikan example? Any further commentary? As a community observer, it was intriguing as a phenomenon. Thank you for bringing it to my attention, too, by the way.

Sepulveda: You’re welcome.

It was very interesting to see how the community responded to it. Since then, however, it doesn’t appear to have had any long lasting effects. All the tests that were compromised are still available and accepted for admission into the various groups.

And I have yet to receive any contact from Mr. Millikan.

Jacobsen: Who are the most impressive alternative test-takers known in the high-IQ communities known to you? Why them? What makes their stature, as such, earned sufficiently to garner a respected reputation in the community?

Sepulveda: The only people that come to mind are Domagoj Kutle and Naoki Kouda. When I was using social media, Domagoj would regularly post the results he got on the wide variety of tests he’s taken. And while the tests may not be the best, I have to say it’s very impressive to do so well on so many. Many of them were very strange and I couldn’t get a handle on what they were going for.

As for Naoki, he’s been working on some very interesting spatial tests, has held the highest score on several difficult tests over the course of several years (irrelevant of validity, it’s a fairly impressive accomplishment) and is the only other person I’m aware of who’s been concerned about the quality of those used for admission.

Jacobsen: Are many people disillusioned with the state of the high-IQ communities at this time?

Sepulveda: I believe so. There are only few hundred active members of the community at the moment. And when anyone leaves such groups, they tend not to stay up to date on the comings and goings of them. So it’s entirely possible that such people are now a silent majority.

Jacobsen: Liam seems like a moral person who directed attention in a drastic presentation as to the flaws in some of the foundations of the community vis-à-vis its tests and testing methodologies. C’est la vie ‘Kana Kana,’ and “Hakuna Matata.” Random question: Do you own any animals?

Sepulveda: It may be impossible to determine Liam’s moral character definitively based on a single instance. All I can say with certainty is that I agree with him about the state of the community and the tests used for admission into it.

I hope I get a chance to understand him better in the future, but the odds of that happening are undeniably low. Feel free to pass along my contact info if he gets in touch with you.

No, I dedicate a lot of time to work, personal projects and other people. So I fear that owning a pet would inevitably lead to an unhealthy amount of neglect that it wouldn’t deserve.

Jacobsen: Why did so many older individuals in these societies, from the personal accounting – by you, simply quote famous intellectuals? It seems decidedly anti-intellectual.

Sepulveda: From my experience, the more average type of person would be impressed or intimated by the knowledge base or expertise of someone reciting famous quotes. It can give the impression of a high level of expertise with a difficult or esoteric subject, but it’s really just pretentious pomp. No more impressive than being able to remember what you had for dinner last week. Still they’ll keep doing it if people are more often impressed than not to feel good about themselves.

Being smart doesn’t change human nature.

Jacobsen: Is there a pattern of superficial thinking in some of the high-IQ communities?

Sepulveda: In general, that seems like a fair presumption.

Jacobsen: Have there been any further controversies or updates impactful to community relayed to you, since a reduction in time spent there?

Sepulveda: Not that I’m aware of.

Jacobsen: What might make the creation of alternative tests more honest in their representation of claimed IQ scores?

Sepulveda: The tests would need to be longer (50-200 problems), have a larger sample size for statistical accuracy (2,000 people minimum) and design the problems in such a manner that a majority of mental abilities are tested without requiring any specific knowledge. A decent test could be composed of problems similar to those on humanbenchmark.com and a variety of spatial and pure logic problems.

Jacobsen: How are you feeling about the Tango affair now?

Sepulveda: I used to experience a lot of mixed emotions whenever something reminds me of her (which happens quite often, even a year afterwards. Rarely does a day go by where she hasn’t been in my thoughts) – hurt, longing, anger and sympathy flood my brain and were quite difficult to manage. Since then I’ve made a lot of progress and only feel a certain amount of tension as I instinctively cease all thought until the initial response to such reminders come to an end.

As to the affair itself, if I imagine a scenario where I were to somehow able to place my current consciousness into my younger self, holding her close as we watched the moon rise or our first kiss… I guarantee my dumb ass would do it all over again.

Jacobsen: What is the extended sense of moral relativism when it comes to the real world? Obviously, you mean an empirical moral philosophy taking into account the real feelings and actions of individuals in the world rather than references to transcendental nothingness.

Sepulveda: Of course. In my opinion, transcendental philosophy isn’t grounded enough to reflect the everyday reality we all face. My understanding of moral relativity is founded on psychology.

I believe that, when faced with any divisive situation, the direction of everyone’s individual moral compass is directed by the average result of similar situations we’ve previously experienced.

Jacobsen: Your commentary on Tango was extensive and may not need much more. Have you found love again or hints of it?

Sepulveda: I don’t have much more to say on the subject beyond the details provided below. Almost anything else I could share would be entirely inappropriate for this outlet and incredibly disrespectful to Tango.

No, I have not yet been so lucky. But that’s okay. In the long run it’s probably better that I’ve been focusing on my mental well being.

Jacobsen: Why did Derek ask you how you were at work?

Sepulveda: I’ve never been one to hide how I feel. So it was plain as day to see that something traumatic had happened in my life. Any decent person would inquire and try to help, even if they could only listen. But he was the only one to do so, so it’s only right that I show him how much that meant to me.

Jacobsen: Why did Heidi give you her number and her time?

Sepulveda: Heidi is the owner of a local business I visit daily as part of my job. We met a few years ago when an old woman heard she was single and was trying to play matchmaker. At the time, I suggested that we just play along because it’d make the woman happy and that she would likely keep sending her suitors if we didn’t.

As mentioned above, my mood was easy enough to deduce. So, she offered me her number in case I needed someone to talk to. We talked for a while and even went out to lunch one afternoon (which was wonderful). There, we spoke openly for a few hours and I’m very grateful that she took the time to do so.

Jacobsen: What is the sense of only being heard and not listened to, in any moment? How was Jodi different in this respect, in listening?

Sepulveda: In all honesty, I chose to mention Jodi because she was a friend who was initially willing to let me express myself freely when most others didn’t and felt she deserved to mentioned as a courtesy. But in the time between when that part was published and this one, I’ve completely disassociated myself from her. We have a couple differences of opinion and, while any mature adult should be able to let such things slide, she’d use them as an excuse to start arguments with me at every opportunity. Which is a real shame. I greatly enjoyed talking with her.

Jacobsen: How did Elaine put up with you?

Sepulveda: As I mentioned in part 9, Tango is a lingerie model. So it should come as no surprise that she feels obligated to look a certain way. I grew concerned when I learned that she’d started skipping meals on a fairly frequent basis. So, alongside all the other things I did for her, I made sure that she was eating regularly.

As for Elaine, she is the office eye candy where I work and, unfortunately, has to put up with a lot of extra, completely unnecessary attention from others because of how she looks. I’m not proud to admit that I used be one such nuisance. But I’ve learned a lot and matured noticably as a direct result of meeting her. Now, I try to limit myself to maintaining a (mostly) professional relationship with her, only sticking around to see how she’s doing and/or share ridiculous jokes to make her laugh whenever I perceive that she’s feeling stressed.

One evening after the affair had ended, Elaine was feeling light headed and it turned out that she’d been skipping a few meals as well. I’d been so busy helping Tango every day (keeping her fed, helping her study, working out together via FaceTime, acting as personal security and literally messaging each other all day, every day for months on end) that I felt a vacuous hole in my life after she cut me out of hers. So I jumped at the first opportunity I could to resume that role. And, thankfully, she was receptive enough to my assistance to put up with me while I worked to resolve my anguish.

Jacobsen: Who is Julia? How did she spend time with you? What made this time different than other times?

Sepulveda: Julia was a pretty close friend that I first encountered during the affair. I’d made an offhanded remark about how being too clean during the pandemic could lead to autoimmune disease in some people and she quickly responded with a very, very well educated correction. Little did I know that she works as a lab tech at a local hospital and the last type of person I should be ignorantly speaking around. I was very impressed and wanted to ask for a chance to get to know her.

That opportunity arose shortly after the affair ended. We bumped into each other and, likely due to the combination of my obvious emotional state and her generous nature, she agreed to meet me at a local taproom. Now, it should go without saying that it would generally be very unwise for a young woman to meet up with a very upset man you don’t know and add alcohol to the mix, especially when you don’t have anything to benefit from the situation. But she did. And I am especially grateful to her for doing so. It was a very pleasant evening that did a lot of good for my mental state.

We then became pretty close friends over the course of several months, spending time together frequently at a number of bars and enjoying some of the best conversations I’ve had in years. But, sadly, I’m no longer in contact with her. Various factors that would be inappropriate and disrespectful to share prevented us from spending any more time together.

But that’s okay. I understand why it has to be this way and have nothing but gratitude and respect for her. She truly a wonderful person and I’m so thankful for the time she allowed me to share with her.

Jacobsen: What have been the critical times in life when your mother was there for you, while others were not?

Sepulveda: There are a plethora of examples I could give you. But for the sake of brevity and my ego, I’ll simply say that she’s been the most reliable person in my life and I am incredibly thankful that out of everyone living, I am lucky enough to be the son of the one I respect the most.

Jacobsen: How were you on a path towards prison in the path? How did Jess guide you away from it?

Sepulveda: Once or twice a week, every week, Tango would call me crying over something her husband had said or did. During the affair I would assure her that he was wrong, that no good man would hurt her like that and that it would all go away after the divorce was finalized. After the affair ended, before she cut me out, she continued to call me when things got bad. I soon began to feel culpable, that my knowledge of her situation and inactivity contributed to the pain felt by the one I loved most. Given the complex dynamic she’d established, I worried that she’d lose the courage to leave him. So, I considered all the options I had to help her and how much longer I could allow him to hurt her.

I began to actively consider killing her husband.

I didn’t know much about the photographer, but at least shenever cried about him until the abortion.

I began to weigh the significance of my life against the odds that following through with this act would benefit the lives of Tango, her child, the photographer and all their descendents. As we know, children that grow up in abusive households often follow suit. So I asked those closest to me – how long do I let him hurt her until I make him stop?

Almost everyone responded in the same way. Saying that it isn’t an option because it was wrong, I’m a good guy and it’d destroy my future opportunities. They didn’t understand how much she meant to me, that under most circumstances I wouldn’t hesitate to sacrifice anything for the one I love.

Only Jess (a young woman I met through work that I spent my lunch breaks with every day) understood me well enough to help me see the truth. If her best friend killed her husband and went to prison, that would be the most traumatic thing to ever happen to her. She’d feel indescribably guilty and blame herself for everything (because she always does). And I knew her well enough to be certain she wouldn’t survive that.

Jess proved to me that I was wrong. That my actions attempting to save two lives would have a much higher risk of ending four.

I can’t thank her enough for that.

From now on everything I do is thanks to her. Every project I complete. Every laugh I share. Every second of freedom I experience is thanks to what she said that day.

I’ll never be able to thank her enough.

Jacobsen: Who is Harry? How did he keep engaging with you, keep you smiling?

Sepulveda: Harry is my closest friend. During that period, he spent a lot of time with me. Ghost of Tsushima had just launched the multiplayer option online and we were on it daily. This was important because I couldn’t focus on anything that didn’t require my immediate attention. So games became a very useful distraction (especially Senua’s Sacrifice and Days Gone, which allowed me to feel testosterone again. Fun fact – I loved those games so much I framed them upon completion).

You may recall that during that time I was so depressed I couldn’t even fake a smile. Not even my niece could pull one out of me. But about two months into this period, Harry invited me to his child’s gender reveal party. I went and was content to drink alone in the garage so as not to bring down anybody’s mood. Harry wouldn’t hear of it and kept me busy throughout the proceedings.

They started taking commemorative photos a few hours in and, as Harry has appointed me as godfather to his daughter, he and I had to get a few of us together. Now, due to him being overweight and the pair of us being absolute goofs, we naturally had to take one of me kissing his belly as though he were the one who was pregnant.

That was the first time I smiled in two months.

It was the first solid step in my recovery since losing Tango. I’m not sure I’d be alive today if not for that moment.

I could not be more grateful to have him in my life.

Jacobsen: And to Tango, last but not least, what is the lesson in moving on, moving forward, and looking ahead?

Sepulveda: I was forced to accept many hard truths from my experiences with Tango –

  1. Life isn’t fair. The outcomes we face don’t depend on what anyone deserves.
  2. You can’t always solve another person’s problems. Sometimes, no matter what you offer or how sound your argument is, you’ll never be able to alter another person’s perceptions or course in life. It’s up to that individual to accept their responsibility and better themselves on their own accord. To place any of that responsibility on yourself is unreasonable and will only add an unnecessary amount of stress to your life.
  3. Perhaps the most tragic lesson of all – some people don’t really know what it feels like to love and/or be loved.

This may seem like an arrogant assumption, but let me explain – Most emotions like sadness and anger are simple to understand due to their association with relatively specific circumstances. But love is unique insofar as that it is often confused by experiencing lust, jealousy and sympathy as you express it. So our understanding of love becomes muddled by the extra noise.

But stripped down to the truth, it’s plain to see that love isn’t really an emotion. It’s a motivating factor. To love is have the genuine, selfless desire to make someone feel happy. Whatever that requires.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Member, World Genius Directory.

[2] Individual Publication Date: February 1, 2022: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/sepulveda-11; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation Between Rick Rosner and Scott Jacobsen with Anonymous Moderator

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/02/01

Abstract

Rick Rosner is a Comedy Writer and a member of some high-IQ societies. With an anonymous moderator, we discuss: consciousness or awareness, information processing, Informational Cosmology, and derivations.

Keywords: awareness, consciousness, evolution, information, Informational Cosmology, Rick Rosner, Scott Jacobsen.

Conversation Between Rick Rosner and Scott Jacobsen with Anonymous Moderator

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

*During the interview, when Rick or Scott mentions “We,” this, typically, refers to collaborative work, as in ‘our view,’ ‘we think,’ and so on. However, we retain modest disagreements on some points in theorizing.*

Rick Rosner[1],[2]*: Before we talk about what we were going to talk about, you think China is going to kick our asses.

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: It seems in that direction, yes.

Rosner: I was going to describe some of the crap that I have bought online lately and talk about how crazy labour and tech intensive it is.

Jacobsen: How so?

Rosner: I bought my wife a ring for $2.19, including shipping on some container ship. It had 3 one carat each faceted synthetic sapphires. Someone or some computer had to facet each sapphire. It had a ring of gold over silver and something like 15 half point or 1/200th of a carat faceted white sapphires, which were probably done by a computer, for $2!

I bought my kid who is doing a paper on frogs…

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Rosner: A frog ring that has something like 50 stones, which means little tiny stones next to each other like pavement. Again, some gold over silver, some not, a polished cabochon topaz for $5. I bought my mom a ring for Mother’s Day for $1.82 with 14 faceted synthetic aqua marines and 2 dozen pave set tiny little white sapphires in the place of diamonds.

That is some combination between labor being ridiculously cheap, technology being high, and a bunch of yahoos running this country. They will be happy to chip away at us cheap crappy ring by cheap crappy ring.

That is why people said this stuff about Japan and Japanese cars. When they said it, they were right? Because American cars were really sucking, and Japan came in with great cars for the time. All right, do you want to move onto the next thing?

[Break]

Rick Rosner: In preparation for everyone coming, I have been thinking about IC a lot. I do not have to talk entirely out of my ass. IC is informational cosmology.

Anonymous Conversation Moderator: Okay.

Rosner: IC must be at least somewhat right for this to be right. But it seems as if there is at least the potential for accumulating evidence in several areas that would weigh in favour of IC, a universe that is an information processor and likely a conscious information processor.

Meaning that, the information it’s processing pertains to something.

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Some big questions emerge from that first. Some first questions would amount to how the information is being processed, at what scales the information is being processed, why those scales of information processing, and how those relate to one another. We have discussed them.

Rosner: Yes, we have. But most of the answers are “we don’t know.” Some of the mechanisms seem reasonably persuasive.

Moderator: Do you need consciousness for information processing? Or can you have information processing in the absence of consciousness?

Rosner: I think that when you have a large, self-consistent information processor. It becomes efficient to have a central clearing house for things that are kind of automatic. Though, no computer on Earth, right now, is conscious.

Though, I might be wrong about that. There are suspicious things going on with Google Translate. The computers that have taught themselves to play Go. Just because something mysterious is going on in a computer does not mean that it is conscious. But it seems that if you have a large self-referential or self-monitoring system that is generating all sorts of information and the information is being shared among the various subsystems with the subsystems being the kind of Marvin Minsky subsystems.

That consciousness emerges out of that deal. That beyond a certain scale, you would almost have to engineer against it to not happen.

Moderator: Does something like this recursive looping structure that generates consciousness is out of the self-monitoring thing?

Rosner: Not exactly, because then, you get into falsities, ‘If you recognize yourself in the mirror, people can, but certain monkeys can’t, and dolphins.” All those are stabs at it. But a certain amount of self-recursion also gets involved with stabs at consciousness.

I would make this argument: that everything you think can be described in a sentence or a bunch of sentences. It would take a gazillion sentences to describe even a moment of what you’re thinking, but some of those sentences would be or could be self-referential, “I am sitting here. I am thinking about thinking how I think. I have an itchy neck. My eyes are tired. I am x years old. I am…”

The sentences that describe you being aware of you are no different in structure than the rest of the sentences that say there is a couch. There is a plaid blanket. There is an ab roller. There is a squeaky elephant. It seems the information involved with being consciousness, which is this strong level understanding what is going on, of modelling reality, and every part of your brain being informed by every other part of your brain or mind.

That is not a lot of specialness to sentences because they are all sentences describing what you are thinking. But a lot of them, probably the minority of them, refer to your awareness of yourself. They reflect that feeling that you have of being a thing that is aware in the world.

Although, you could design a computer that could design false sentences like this. We are thinking of sentences that authentically reflect what you are thinking.

Moderator: It seems as if you are using intentional language. This phenomenological subset statements that you are talking about, where we are talking about our own states. How we feel, our own emotions, images in our mind, that there is some position of consciousness vis-à-vis those items that we are describing or noticing in consciousness even prior to linguistic representation of those things.

Rosner: Yes.

Moderator: There is a difference between consciousness proper, in the awareness sense, and the contents of consciousness that arise in consciousness. That bifurcation allows those descriptions of those things to occur.

Jacobsen: Life would be hard too if we had to articulate every non-conscious set…

Rosner: Yes.

Jacobsen: …of statements or emergent set of statements. [Laughing] life would be almost unlivable. I know some reports of people who have eidetic memory, maybe 6 or 7 people in the world. By analogy, they remark on similar things.

They talk about the experience of the memory being so powerful in each moment, of something that is not happening in that moment, as at times unbearable. It would seem evolutionarily efficient to get rid of that simply by having a barrier.

Rosner: Yes, mental thrift, it is not even a substrate. But it is the feeling of experience. Consciousness is, basically, the hyper-felt experience. It does not have to be self-referential. There could be some sophisticated night watchmen software.

It could monitor a bunch of warehouses. The software would, maybe, not even be aware of what it is and where it is. It may simply be hyperaware to the point of being conscious to making judgments about what is going on.

I do not think that you can easily divorce value judgments from consciousness. Anyway, it could be hyperaware of the warehouses without being aware of itself. You can do without language, as with dogs and mice.

I would guess any mammal is conscious.

Moderator: I like it. I would follow a panpsychism that follows consciousness as an awareness. You could push down damn far, certainly evidence in animals. You could probably push down further.

Rosner: Maybe, most reptiles, it gets tricky with bugs.

Moderator: The problem of something so qualitatively different from concrete matter. How do you get that first thing? If it is not a fundamental feature of reality, which I thought you were hinting at.

Rosner: No, I think it is an emergent characteristic of certain large self-consistent, self-informing information processing systems.

Jacobsen: That sounds like an unavoidable derivative. Something that by the nature of the structure brings about certain forms of information processing that have consciousness as an output.

Rosner: Yes, if every subsystem is sharing on a broadband basis with every other subsystem, and being understood, you have something that functions like consciousness.

Moderator: I see. Okay.

Rosner: Although, lately, we have been talking about what an enormous pain in the ass it would be…

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Rosner: …and how expensive informationally it would be if there had to be a language or a bunch of languages having to share information among the brain’s or the mind’s various subsystems, which suggests there is a lot of tacit understanding going on.

It sounds like as-if understanding, which has echoes of quantum computing – which I don’t understand at all. But it does a lot of computation on a multi-conditional, as-if basis.

Moderator: Are we talking about communication between subsystems of the brain like the emotional subsystem?

Rosner I don’t know. It seems reasonable to say there is a sub-system in the brain for language. At the same time, you don’t know if it is localized or only partly localized and then spread through the brown.

What exactly when you think of an orange or the color orange, what is lighting up? What is communicating that information? Does every part of the brain need to understand language in order to understand that orange is being thought of? It seems super redundant and would eat up all the possible information.

There has to be a way to act as if it understands a bunch of stuff, where it isn’t being explicitly informed about that stuff. It is kind of the way that you look at a painting. You only have this frickin’ 2-inch in diameter part of your visual field that can see precisely.

You don’t notice because your eyes wander the painting and then fill in the painting, in your head, as if you have seen the entire painting. Even though, you have only seen the painting in bits.

Anyway, everything is a pain in the ass.

Moderator: [Laughing].

Jacobsen: [Laughing] If you look at the field of psychology, it has problems too. It has problems in its own set of epistemologies. There does seem to be a fragmentation of its knowledge, but a fragmentation of its methodology in acquiring knowledge.

If you look at evolutionary psychology, I believe feminist psychology, cognitive psychology, etc., these different fields use different methodologies and different statistical tools. Those methodologies and statistical tools simply amount to different epistemologies about how the brain operates or how to gain knowledge about how the brain operates.

So, you could imagine all knowledge about the mind as a black sphere that each discipline is providing partially overlapping but distinct lights on that sphere. But even in the academic main, things are not necessarily providing too much help as well.

These are deep questions.

Rosner: Yes, to the point, where we talked about, people just gave up on it in the 1930s.

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Rosner: “Black box, behaviorism, we just won’t worry about it.”

Moderator: Yes, I would look at the ontological ramifications of there being multiple epistemologies and methodologies in such a way that you have to acknowledge that there’s an equally valid and ontologically potent subjective domain that’s worthy of examination not strictly from the third-person, scientific, empirical point of view.

One from another set of phenomenological views. There are many other ways of examining this realm.

Rosner: I’d argue – and we’d argue – that much of this gets cleaned up once there is a mathematics of consciousness, at least in terms of what we’re talking about.

Jacobsen: Yes.

Rosner: Once you have that, what we have been talking about, you have a bunch of definite frameworks to look at the information contained in consciousness through. One is assuming the universe is made of information. That information pertains to something that is not just describing itself.

So, you have the universe as we experience it, living in an information space that is our physical space with the rules of physics. Then you have the armature space that, by analogy, if you argue we have a mind, we have brains. And if we didn’t have minds, we wouldn’t have brains.

If the universe is made of information, then there needs to be a physical structure apart from the universe and accessible to the universe that allows the information that the universe is made of to exist.

Moderator: Like a medium?

Rosner: Like our brain.

Moderator: Okay.

Rosner: Our minds do not give us access to – unless, we go to med. school or work in a lab – our brains. So, you’ve got our minds as we experience them through consciousness. You have the information space that might exist as a map of the information in an individual consciousness.

You have the brain without which the mind couldn’t exist. Then you have the universe as this thing that is doing its own thing informationally. But those processes allow for life to arise and us to experience that information space as a physical realm.

You have like four things, or three. Anyway, several.

Jacobsen: From what I can tell, those amount to a set of rules or principles of existence. Something like a physics, or where the rules of physics become emergent phenomena. You have the universe as the information itself. You have almost the gestalt representation of that information. Then you have the armature from which the rest derive.

Rosner: Yes.

Jacobsen: It becomes a complicated thing. It is a complexification thing.

Rosner: But it gets all cleaned up if there is a mathematics of consciousness. And there should be! There is no reason for there not to be. Because consciousness as a moment to moment picture of the shared information within your mind is an actual thing.

It should be describable mathematically.

Jacobsen: The universe can be described by mathematics. The brain is part of the universe that can be described by mathematics. Therefore, the mind can be described by mathematics. It would simplify the whole process.

Moderator: So, let’s say that I can derive equations to describe the emotional state or sensory state that you undergo when you eat an ice cream cone, I have that set of equations. It captures perfectly this integrated information system in which every part of the brain is communicating. It totally captures it.

I look at that equation. It feels to me something is lost, where I then have to somehow translate that again into a subjective experience that I can internalize, empathize, with. If I do not have the additional step, I am not fully capturing everything.

I have objectively described the brain.

Rosner: I think that is a problem with the whole thing. In that, I do not think it is a set of equations. I think it is an information map that conforms to certain principles, to mathematical rules. You can probably boil it down to a gazillion equations or a zillion numbers that get plugged into a framework.

Not exactly a matrix, but not exactly not a matrix, then you have metaphysical questions. These arise, “If that describes an emotional state or a state consciousness that exists, then why isn’t it conscious?”

Then you have to argue that it isn’t conscious because you don’t really get consciousness in action. Unless, you have a series of these moments stringed together. Each of which describes a moment flowing into another moment.

Moderator: It hasn’t been transduced. So, it would be like raw information that hasn’t been acted upon or something. Like, the equations themselves.

Rosner: Yes, but once you have the math of it –

Moderator: It is like have a floppy disk.

Rosner: Yes.

Moderator: [Laughing] it has the information, but it is not running, maybe.

Rosner: Except, it contains the information that embodies that self-awareness. But since it is only one moment, maybe, it doesn’t last long. It doesn’t describe enough moments because consciousness only lasts for an instant. It is not really consciousness.

Maybe, if you had a floppy disk that had ten moments or a hundred moments or something that described moment-by-moment 23 seconds within a human awareness, you could, maybe, argue that on that disk is an extended moment of consciousness, but maybe not.

Moderator: To me, it seems like a way of transferring. If you are adept enough at reading the equations or have a way or translating that into your own information space, it is like the medium through which you can pass the information and recreate it in your own brain that has the structure to.

Rosner: I don’t know if you should need to do that. The information space, the map, or the description of it should boil down to something that looks like a quantum mechanical description of an almost entirely self-contained cosmos or world, but a teeny one.

The math that would contain all the potentials – the open questions – that would be solved quantum mechanically in subsequent moments. So, you could have a model consciousness that actually functions as consciousness as long as it functioned as a quantum mechanical little universe that was unfolding with your floppy disks plugging in the information, the new information, that’s required for the thing to go from moment to moment.

Jacobsen: The continuity coming from a set of implied pasts and a narrow set of possible futures within an instantiated moment.

Rosner: Yes, a narrowed set. As you know with quantum mechanics, the whole debate and what freaked out Einstein. Quantum mechanics explicitly cannot predict entirely what is going to happen. It has openings where new information has to be plugged in.

But as long as you have this little engine and the information to plug in for moment to moment, you can have a model consciousness conscious for 23 seconds, or how ever long you can make it run depending on the capacity of the disk.

There was a brutal and great science fiction story by David Marusek called The Wedding Album. In the future, on happy occasions, people have not only their photographs taken, but the technology also records their awareness.

The story is about the portrait of the awareness of a bride on her wedding day, and how she struggles over many decades to be acknowledged as a sufficiently conscious entity, which is tough for her because this portrait of consciousness runs into problems.

It was early technology. She isn’t as fully conscious as the products of later technology that could better capture consciousness. It is one of my favourite stories.

Moderator: What is the structure of this technology?

Rosner: I think he dances around that.

Moderator: It is not equations on a page.

Rosner: No, but it is something on a disk or the futuristic equivalent of a disk.

Moderator: Sure.

Jacobsen: There are some tacit assumptions floating around in the conversation, such as the insertion of new information. Perhaps, that leads to new questions. If you want to include it, I leave that to you.

Rosner: We got some questions. We should mention Lisa Feldman Barrett who is a constructivist. There are two schools of thought in contemporary neuroscience. One is constructivist, which is Lisa Barrett’s point of view, which is that we are not born with a lot of evolved specialist systems – particularly with regard to emotions.

She wrote this book called How Emotions Are Made. She argues that based on the neuroscience done by her and other research, comparative psychology across the world. What we think are basic emotions, that are hardwired into our brains through evolution are, really, cultural artefacts.

She argued about schadenfreude. This was a thing that was super common in Germany, but didn’t really start showing up in America until we turned into a bunch of pricks. It is seeming like a basic emotion to Germans. It is a novel emotion to us.

There are certain cultures that don’t feel fear or anger the way that we do. But we feel that fear and anger are these very basic things. She says, “We have basic physical reactions. But beyond that, a lot of stuff is cultural constructs.”

So, there are constructivists or essentialists. Something like that who say, “No, that stuff is here.” She also argues that the brain exists to predict what is going to happen in order to get your reactions – your body ready – to best manage what is going to happen in every next instant.

So, when you talk about the information that needs to be supplied as consciousness unfolds, that information comes from the world, which includes sensory input and also what we’re thinking from other parts of our brain.

The stuff gets filled in. All these questions get answered in the same way that it is an open question at the beginning of a game, a sports game, what the final score is going to be. You have to let the game happen for that open question to be answered.

Consciousness is a bunch of open questions plus predictions, which is reminiscent of a quantum mechanical system that is only partially determined as it goes into the future with the rest of the determination being filled in by the unfolding of time.

Jacobsen: There was the other premise of the insertion of information in a finite system. Right, one big thing is the aspect of finite systems for universe and for minds in it.

Rosner: Yes, for anything that includes an infinity, it is kind of suspect.

Jacobsen: So, it is a particular type of infinity too. This also implies things that we talked about before around limitations in digit span in terms of the oneness of one and the twoness of two.

Rosner: Yes, you and I have talked a lot about the principles of existence. Principles rather than rules because rules seem set from the word “Go.” Principles seem, at least the way that we understand them, kind of emergent.

Things need certain characteristics to exist. Which means, they have to persist across time. They have to be non-contradictory or, at least, self-non-contradictory.

Jacobsen: Which leads to another question, “Why persist?”

Rosner: Because if something exists for zero time, it doesn’t exist, which is kind of a circular argument.

Jacobsen: It is also based on a statistical argument. That things are more likely to exist than not exist. It amounts to a statistical argument for existence.

Rosner: Hold on, let’s do that, then let’s go back to numbers. Where the base assumption for both religious people and for scientific people is that you don’t get something for nothing, the world we live in is something.

Something had to have created it. The assumption behind that is nothing is the default state. In the absence of some force or creator, you’ve got nothing. But there is an alternate point of view that I kind of embrace, I think that you do to some extent.

Jacobsen: Yes, I do.

Rosner: That the principles of existence are not so tight that they prohibit all existence. That some existence is allowed. That there is a set, maybe, because of the set of all things that exist might be so complicated that it cannot exist as a set.

There is, for the sake of argument, a set of all possible worlds that can exist. That set contains, at least, our world. By reasonable assumptions, a potential infinity or near infinity of other worlds.

Jacobsen: I have musings about that too [Laughing]. Go ahead.

Rosner: So, statistically, there is only one null world. There is only one world that doesn’t exist because it contains no space, no time, no mass, no information. The odds that that’s, when you’re picking worlds as random – which you can’t do because of the Anthropic Principle, just the default world; it’s just statistically super unlikely.

Jacobsen: It amounts to a simple twist to centuries of philosophizing on it. You can’t get something from nothing. Why not?

Rosner: Why is nothing the thing? Anyway, to get back to numbers, numbers are really effective in the world. Both as their own system of things and as their own way of counting things. When you use numbers, you are using things that are infinitely precise without realizing that you’re trading in infinities.

The number “1” is really “1.0000000…” out to infinity. Every counting number is infinitely precise. That allows numbers to work in very powerful ways.

Jacobsen: I love that.

Rosner: Yes. Numbers are imaginary. So, you get into not bad trouble because we live in a universe that has 10^85th proton-sized particles. It feels infinite in a lot of ways because it has so much stuff in it, and is so precisely defined, until you get down to quantum levels.

You don’t get much trouble when you talk about one apple. When you go around saying, “I saw one apple. I saw two goats. I saw three Camaros,” you’re probably going to be okay. Unless, you got a quick glimpse of them and were testifying in court.

There is not numerical perfection necessarily in the world because the world is finite and we have a finite amount of information with which to describe and understand it.

Jacobsen: I would love to see the court case with the apple, the goat, and the Camaro.

Rosner: What happened?

Jacobsen: [Laughing] If you look at the statistical emergence of phenomena through principles of existence rather than rules or laws, and with numbers as finite in a finite universe to be able to handle the information to produce numberishness about things, then that does provide a basis for a certain type of dynamism in the sets described before.

You mentioned this universe as part of a set, but each instantiation is different. That implies a certain set of sets of our universe, which does have a certain dynamism about it.

Rosner: I don’t know what exactly you mean. Except, the universe might reasonably be described as a string of present moments. Each of which is picked from among the set of all possible next moments.

With a bunch of caveats about how there is so much information, and so much of the information is quantumly fuzzy, that the mathematics of pegging things as specific moments probably needs all sorts of development and clarification.

But you could probably build model worlds. That’s when you’re starting to learn quantum mechanics. They start you off with a model world of one particle down a potential well, one fuzzy thing. You could probably build fuzzy little worlds from there and then extend.

Let’s talk about how I kind of see IC as possibly in the future getting to the point of kind of being like Wegener’s theory of continental drift. It is a theory with a lot of evidence pointing to it. To the point of it being increasingly obvious, that it is something that is a viable theory.

Jacobsen: What are the pointers?

Rosner: Wegener was an Arctic explorer among other things. He fought in WWI. During and after that, in the early ‘20s, he published some papers looking at the geologic evidence. There is an argument to be made that all of the continents were unified as one continent in the past.

We have talked about how at some point metaphysics and physics will have to be reunified to be effective. Science has avoided metaphysics for a long time. At some point, science should be able to answer some of that questions that is has denied to answer for a long time because they were too tough.

Jacobsen: Yes [Laughing].

Rosner: Wegener argued it was time during his era for geology and geography to start working together again. I just read that in Wikipedia as I was getting ready to talk about this stuff.

Jacobsen: There is a notion. And it is not accurate. The notion is modern. The notion being science is divorced from philosophy. If you look at the history of it, science was natural philosophy. It amounted to a branch of philosophy.

So, natural philosophers, which are now scientists, amounted to and still equate to applied philosophers. So, there become philosophers of a type, but more functional in their approach and applied in their approach.

Rosner: They took over because they got the results.

Moderator: Yes, it is a lot more effective [Laughing] than a kind of a blind metaphysics that isn’t informed by, especially, modern science.

Jacobsen: It’s like Thales, right? “Everything is water.” How is this relevant? What technology is this going to produce? So, we become mystified by our own powerful technological sophistication and scientific discoveries that are allowing us to produce those technologies, but the basic assumptions, for instance, from Sean Carroll, come out when he says, ‘Conclude.’

In other words, a natural conclusion of science is naturalism. Of course! If you look at the history of it, it is grounded in natural philosophy. So, if you forgot the history, then you’ll derive naturalism. It is almost like forgetting your feet, and seeing out in the world, and looking down, and then finding your feet again.

Rosner: So, there are some feet to be found with what we’re doing, which is mathematicize consciousness. Also, with the implications of consciousness being a widely emergent phenomenon, which is a dangerous way to characterize consciousness because it then sounds to people like you’re saying trees and rocks have consciousness, and that the healing amethyst, you’re selling for 20$…

Jacobsen: …I have a crystal in my water. And now, it is filtered [Laughing].

Rosner: Yeah, no, we’re not saying any of that. Systems of information processing, people who promote Intelligent Design or creationists. They like to say that you don’t get eyes without God. Yet, if you look at the evolutionary record, eyes pop up all over the place.

Independently, a number of different times in evolutionary history because they are super helpful and have an easy series of evolutionary steps, where each step is helpful. Like, wheels don’t evolve because it is tough to get wheels.

The steps leading to wheels might not be helpful. You have a patch on your skin detects brightness. Then you start building lenses. After a while, if you’re lucky, you get eyes.

Jacobsen: You can Google it. You can pick a sense or you can pick an ability like echolocation. You can Google it. You can come up with multiple examples of independently evolved senses or abilities.

Rosner: You can argue intelligence is a thing that has emerged, at least, more than once. Octopuses are tragically smart evolved molluscs, which barely have brains.

Jacobsen: If they had a rock band, they would name it that, “Tragically Smart.”

Rosner: Yes, tragically smart because they are super smart and only live for two years – most of them. They have the possum model of reproduction.

Moderator: I see.

Rosner: Spit out a bunch of low quality organisms…

Jacobsen: …[Laughing]…

Rosner: …because most of them are going to get eaten.

Moderator: Okay.

Rosner: Octopuses, some of the really cool ones have a liquid crystal display across their body. Their bodies are TV screens. It is a great mechanism. But after 2 years, it starts peeling off of them. They start falling apart.

Moderator: In that context, it is amazing how effective human natural languages are for communication versus anything else that has been evolved. I mean, you have organisms like octopi that have these strange skins that can do all these things. These things that can morph and change colors.

They seem to be very remarkable and technological breakthroughs evolutionarily speaking for transmitting information.

Rosner: But they don’t do what words do.

Moderator: Yes [Laughing].

Rosner: I also think it helps not to live underwater [Laughing].

Moderator: [Laughing] that’s true. That’s true.

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Moderator: Dolphins are pretty damn smart.

Rosner: Yes. But they still need an occasional crazy person to jack them off.

Moderator: That’s true.

Rosner: Every couple of years, somebody gets arrested.

b[Laughing] sex with dolphins. That’s a whole movement.

Jacobsen: [Laughing] also the name of a band.

Rosner: Editing Noesis was a kind of a lesson or a cautionary deal. But I would get stuff from retired high school teachers.

Jacobsen: Really?!

Rosner: Yes, saying, “Einstein was wrong,” with pages and pages of equations, which made me not want to talk about my stuff until I could talk about it without some concrete stuff that didn’t seem like bullshit.

But on the other hand, I have had to start talking about my stuff, even if it sounds bullshitty because of the march of time.

Jacobsen: Well, one comment I can give to everything, in doing research in terms of trying to do interviews with some of the people who have above 4 standard deviation IQs…

Rosner: Let’s characterize. IQs are set to have a mean or an average of 100. The standard deviation on adult IQ tests is a way to measure the rarity of certain scores. A standard deviation on most IQ tests is 16.

1/6th, roughly, of the population is supposed to score one standard deviation above the mean, above 116. 1/6th is supposed to score one standard deviation below the mean or 84. So, it goes 1/6th of the population scores above 116. One person in 44 scores above 132. One person in 750 is supposed to score above 148. One person in 30,000 is supposed to score above 164.

It doesn’t work exactly that way. There are outliers. But you’re talking about a person with above 4 standard deviations above the mean. It is someone you should find at 1 in 30,000 level.

Jacobsen: It also depends on the test, the test maker, and the country.

Rosner: Some tests are slutty.

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Moderator: [Laughing].

Jacobsen: I don’t mean the online ones that try to make you feel good. I mean 16 is most common, or 15 or 24.

Rosner: Yes.

Jacobsen: Most of the mainstream ones, they would go to 4 standard deviations or 164 with a 16 SD.

Rosner: Yes.

Jacobsen: But I’m sure, you, in terms of research of people who you find of interest. You have to do some background reading. Some of the more casual stuff that is more easily graspable. I will buy the people’s ebooks and then read those. I have written on Creationism in Canada.

In terms of the more high-level stuff, I would leave that to the people in that world who have that background or professionalism. Yet, in terms of things like pseudoscience, e.g., Irreducible Complex, in particular, which is one branch of Intelligent Design, I did interview Michael Behe and have written about Intelligent Design.

He is, as far as I know, one of the founders of the Intelligent Design movement. So, the poster child, as it’s called, of Intelligent Design for a long time was the flagellar motor, which is built out of 30 or 40 amino acid parts.

Rosner: That wheel, it is one of the few things that actually works like a wheel.

Jacobsen: It is an efficient system. Then Kenneth Miller, who is a biologist at Brown University, I did an interview with him as well. I published them side-by-side because they are Roman Catholics. I wanted to put them together.

I asked them relatively fair questions. They gave several thousand words. I used some of the same references in those publications. When I published both of those interviews, the response that I found in some of the research – though, this was a few years ago, so I may be misremembering some of this – was the Type III Secretory System, which is a broken down model of the flagellar motor that is used to inject poison.

It is based out of fewer parts. So, it amounted to someone seeing a transitional fossil, asking, “Where is the transitional fossil?” Then someone showing them the transitional fossil. This sort of thing.

The Type III Secretory System amounted to a pre- from which you would get the flagellar motor. It is simpler mechanism built out of relatively the same parts. The idea of the irreducible complexity is that you cannot get a simpler system than a flagellar motor.

Rosner: But somebody did find one.

Jacobsen: Somebody found a simpler model of the Type III Secretory System.

Moderator: Did Michael Behe accept the finding?

Jacobsen: That is a good question. I would have to look it up again. I do not suspect it. Or he may point to things like the immune system. Things like this. I think one thing in terms of a fairness of representation: Intelligent Design with Dembski and Behe, young earth creationists and old earth creationists, and theistic evolutionists, and unguided naturalistic evolution, which is the main theory.

Those five settings, Intelligent Design as one. Young earth creationism like Bishop James Ussher counting the ages in the Bible and counting back. Old earth creationism accepting the age of the earth at 4.54 billion years or something like this. Then theistic evolutionists accepting evolution, accepting the age of the earth, and then saying, “God did it,” in essence.

‘Man was part of the plan.’ This is one of the rhymes, I think [Ed., not really]. Then unguided evolution is the majority or, I would assume, most of the National Academy of Sciences would accept those ones.

In terms of an accurate and fair representation, I think those five are more fair.

Moderator: So, what about Stuart Kauffman’s take? He kind of falls into a different understanding. I remember there was an Intelligent Design reader that had a similar breakdown. That I think was edited by Dembski and, I think, by Behe as well.

Jacobsen: Okay.

Moderator: They had Ken Miller arguing the standard neo-Darwinian model. They had Stuart Kauffman arguing something involving complexity and chaos and the stuff done at the Sante Fe Institute, which strikes me as the most reasonable kind of skepticism towards a strictly materialistic, neo-Darwinist approach.

That might not make room for certain somewhat intelligent feedback systems or seemingly unconventional forms of intelligence in the evolutionary process. It might have the wherewithal to make room, for instance, of an information universe, the neo-Darwinist model in a way.

Although, it relies heavily on information in terms of its understanding of genetics. I don’t know where I was going with that.

Rosner: That’s at least twice. I would guess that there have been other instances, but I don’t know. Anyway, that it arose on Earth twice argues that it probably has arisen. There are 10^22 stars in the universe.

If you do the Drake Equation, it is likely to have arisen in a bunch of places. It may even be a part of the information that comprises the universe itself. There’s a whole metaphysics around that.

In that, if consciousness, experiencing the world that we experience it – three spatial dimensions and one temporal dimension – and the other stuff that goes along with it, is the way that the world understands itself, then there are philosophical and ethical arguments to be made.

It is not as disheartening a universe as a cold, random evolution universe. Although, it is not the best news in the world either.

Jacobsen: [Laughing] this is true.

Rosner: Anyway, back to it, you were talking about ID people.

Jacobsen: Yes, so, the vast majority of practicing biologists and the elite scientists such as those in the National Academy of Sciences adhere to unguided evolution. So, if they have a faith that has supernatural or metaphysical elements to it, they will put that aside in the laboratory, but will then begin continuing to enact their faith in their place of worship.

I think that is their right to freedom of conscience, freedom of belief, and freedom of religion in that sense. But I think, often, the young earth creationists, the ones that build arks like Ken Ham, the old earth creationists, and the Intelligent Design people get lumped together, but that part seems unfair to me because they do have differences that can be differences of a few billion years in terms of their acceptance of the age of the earth on one metric – to extend an olive branch of compassion, for instance, in terms of the representation of their own worldview in an accurate way. Is that fair?

Moderator: I think that’s totally fair. I actually got into this argument when I was an undergrad. In a philosophy of science class, a relatively well-known thinker came and visited and gave a lecture. I was quite interested in this debate at the time. I was writing a paper and presenting it. My professor was not buying the distinction I was making between Intelligent Design folks and creationists.

But there seems to be a clear distinction to say, “At certain points evolutionary history, there are some morphologies or outcomes, or whatever, or subsystems, or maybe even whole species, that seem to signify some kind of intelligent cause or mechanism.”

Because they are agnostic about that in a way. Although, most of them are of the Judeo-Christian persuasion. They want to insert that divine source. You could leave it open for some Lamarckian system.

You have some primitive eye. You have a mutative moment that was not random, but, maybe, it arose from some feedback with the environment or some other process that we’re yet aware of. That strikes me as opening up a door to a new research program.

But if you’re going to say, “We have proved that this is a divine or a theological intervention because you can’t reduce the complexity of the eye if you take away one piece and whatever. So, you can’t have precursors.”

I buy the argument that most evolutionary biologists make against Intelligent Design in that it is an anti-science program.

Rosner: I got two things. The mainstream media that Lance says is brainwashing me. When it does talk about Intelligent Design, it often characterizes Intelligent Design people as sneaky evolutionists, which is probably true for some and not true for others.

Jacobsen: What does “sneaky evolutionists” mean?

Rosner: I suspect that animals themselves are not completely dumb when it comes to understanding their own abilities or lack of abilities, especially stressed animals who have to take wild gambles to reproduce, to survive, might have slightly increased mental flexibility than the dumb jock animals.

They may not be able to exactly breed themselves, but may be able to engage in cultural evolution to grease the wheels long enough for genetic evolution, in some cases, to catch up.

Moderator: Do you think genetic stuff opens new pathways?

Rosner: Yes, instead of talking about random mutations where some frog will have a couple extra toes, you might have a part of a bigger package, where a frog can see in the infrared or something.

Epigenetics to me means options packages on cars. You get nuts and bolts, and stuff that is close to working.

Moderator: We are discovering more and more how environment impacts gene expression. Gene expression and the products of the gene expression are constraining meiosis and the formation of sperm or egg cells, and that whole process.

In some way, there is a relationship between the environment and the creation of the sperm or eggs that carry the genetic information that’s making it way through.

Jacobsen: If you look at the selection pressures on us throughout evolutionary history, some big factors that have become more understood than in Darwin’s day have been sexual selection and kin selection.

People and other animals select based on various factors relevant to kin and sex. When it comes to influence on, not only gene selection but, the development of the fetus, in developmental psychology, they talk about teratogens.

Things that are poisonous to a fetus in development in the womb. Some obvious ones would be alcohol. We see cases with FAS kids. But I believe some research, though preliminary or not advanced much, are pregnant mothers who are obese passing on the gene expression to their children for obesity.

Rosner: And in general, evolution grabs any easy opportunity and some less than easy opportunities to transmit information. I know a guy. We have the genome. We have people working on what the expression of every gene is.

But my buddy claims that that’s nowhere near enough. You need to find interaction among the systems of the body on all possible or among all possible scales.

Moderator: Interesting.

Rosner: Because evolutionary pressure, any kind of leak or niche that it can flow into. It’ll take advantage of it, which means our bodies are filled. It includes interactions among us, and other species. They are filled with all sorts of unknown feedback loops.

Just because they have all been exploitable, because whatever works, works.

Jacobsen: That good enough principle in evolution does reflect, a little bit, the emergence of the principles of existence, of the type of universe allowed.

Rosner: You don’t necessarily have set rules. You have whatever allows something to persist.

Jacobsen: Now, there might be premature conclusions or derivations from people. Some might take the Teilhard de Chardin notion of some development to an Omega Point.

Rosner: You can always go too far. I mean, the history of trying to figure out consciousness is the history of people getting it wrong.

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Rosner: Anyway, let’s talk about IC and places where there could be evidence that points in the direction of IC, one aspect of IC is that: if the universe really is acting like an information processor or a thinking machine, basically, that doesn’t seem consistent with Big Bang physics.

Big Bang physics seems like a single thought playing itself out or a calculator that blows up after one calculation.

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Rosner: You want a steady progression from the universe now to the universe later to the universes having resembling to one another. Not an exact constant over time, but a regularity. It should have similarity across time.

That is a physical principle. You like things consistent across space or across time. The Big Bang, there is no special point in space. But every point in time is special because every point is different, because every point in time has a different sized universe.

So, IC says, “No, it just looks like that. The universe is roughly, within some statistical variation, the same size across vast spans of time.” It means the universe is much older that it appears to be. One of the huge places for the Big Bang universe to be at risk is if there is stuff in the universe that is older than the apparent age of the universe.

That could include brown dwarfs, which are old burned out stars of a certain size. That cool very slowly because it is not easy for them to lose heat. The way they radiate, they are limited in how they lose heat.

Maybe, they found some brown dwarfs that are much cooler than they should be given the age of the universe. You can look at the early universe and massive black holes, and junk like that. That seem to have formed much faster than they would have had time to have formed.

Galaxies and massive black holes should have taken a few hundred million years to form. As they look back, they find stuff less old than that. So if a lot of that stuff keeps popping up, that’s bad for the Big Bang and good for IC.

Also, dark matter, if the universe is super old, dark matter does not need to be exotic. It could be old burned out stars. They are just hard to see. Yes, they would form a galactic halo because that’s the best place to be to not get knocked out to either into the center of the galaxy or out of the galaxy entirely.

The old stuff is hard to see. It is on the outskirts, where it can orbit undisturbed. There are the galactic filaments, which are these strings that the universe while uniform overall has huge strings and walls of galaxies.

That are more than a hundred million light years across, which suggests a way for old galaxies to be lit up again. If you can light up a whole string of a galaxies in a row, it might be the wiring of the universe.

Jacobsen: So, you would have a bunch of proton rich galaxies that would burn down into neutron rich galaxies, but could be reignited by the resurgence of a certain type of particles.

Rosner: If you have big fluxes of neutrinos and probably other stuff that gets gravitationally lensed from crashing into other galaxies along the line, we were calling it, hotwashing it. If you dipped an old burned out galaxy into the energetic mess that is the universe close to the apparent beginning of time, you might be able to hose it down with enough stuff to unlock a bunch of neutrons and lock them down into protons.

Or you could bring in a bunch of new matter, protons. They would boil down to stars. Then you’ve lit up the galaxy again. You’ve got dark energy, which is needed to make the universe expand in the kind of weird non-Big Bang-y ways that it is thought to expand now.

In the early days of the Big Bang, people thought that there was one initial expansion, explosion, and then we’ve decelerating ever since. Now, it seems the universe is accelerating. Maybe, there is a cleaner reason with the universe being made of information rather than some weird stuff going on with the cosmological constants.

Jacobsen: Also, the Big Bang would not be a single big bang but a series of little big bangs.

Rosner: In IC, it is a rolling series of bangs.

Moderator: What happened with inflation during the time of uniform distribution of hydrogen before you had some quantum fluctuation that gave rise?

Rosner: I don’t know much about inflation. But it happened within the first quintillionth of a second. There are various eras. There is the Microwave Background Radiation, where photons are thought to have come from.

The end of the first period of ionization. That if you have a bunch of matter, just free electrons and free protons because there is too much energy, that is opaque to light, because it is a big soupy mess.

But once electrons start locking into position around protons, the universe becomes transparent. There is probably a couple dozen eras. That is 300,000 years after the Big Bang. With expansion probably occupying the first teeny, hottest, soupiest, energetic part of time, one more thing, quantum mechanics, itself, is super informationey.

It is what happens when you don’t have complete information. You’ve got all this stuff. Much of it points to an information processing universe rather than a just straight out Big Bang.

[Break]

Rosner: You have the life of somebody manic without being manic.

Moderator: [Laughing].

Jacobsen: [Laughing] I will reluctantly cop to that. So, I didn’t answer the question earlier from when the call cut. Not only around biology stuff, but I have interviewed people in Rick’s world. You need to do a lot of reading.

That’s one group. You can go down the listings. You can find various qualities of them. You can find various levels of approachability. By which I mean, some are humble about their gifts. Some are not.

You can tell by the titles that they give themselves. You can also tell by the accessibility that they provide of themselves to the public.

Rosner: That brings up a thing. Yes, I am a dumbass genius because I found a niche that I think is exploitable. My skills do not lie in forming a sex cult [Ed., referencing Keith Raniere].

Moderator: [Laughing].

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Rosner: Although, young me wanted to get famous for doing physics and then go on the Tonight Show and go in a helicopter with my Playboy Bunny girlfriend.

Jacobsen: Pause, for those who do not know the reference, the “sex cult” was a reference of NXIVM or Keith Raniere.

Rosner: I think this is going to be a part of the whole project. That is not my niche. Colossuses stride the world, a big burly man, I had my big, burly days. I was never super burly. I’ve been kind of clowney. It has saved me from being fired in many jobs.

“That guy is crazy, just leave him alone.”

Moderator: [Laughing].

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Moderator: Don’t you think you have certain personality traits prior to developing a strategy.

Rosner: Yes, it is not a full beta cuck snowflake. It is like an A- or Alpha Minus, Beta Plus male.

Jacobsen: You lost me.

Rosner: I can be alpha-y. Unless, there are other alphas around. Then I move to beta.

Moderator: Yes.

Rosner: Which, I guess, doesn’t make me alpha at all, it comes from being socially inept and bad at PE.

Moderator: There is a whole talk these days about the rise of the beta male.

Rosner: I kind of support it. I am older than both of you. I grew up in a time of bullying being good for you. It toughens you up. Does that really need to be the case? Lance likes to argue that by accepting gayness and transness, and other forms of LGBTQness; we’re turning the culture gay. Who cares?

Moderator: [Laughing].

Rosner: What is the big deal?

Moderator: Right, at this point, there is no procreative issue.

Jacobsen: Also, internal to the logic given by them. If it is innate, why the fear?

Rosner: Lance has the fear that everybody has the potential to be somewhat gay. Once you start allowing it, it will encroach.

Jacobsen: He means “metro” then by that.

Moderator: They did a study about homophobia. They put some penis circumference measuring device.

Jacobsen: A penile plethysmograph?

Moderator: Is that what it’s [Laughing] called? Yes.

Jacobsen: I know they have the vaginal plethysmograph. I would assume they have the same for the penis.

Moderator: It measures for erections and whether you were stimulated by certain types of imagery. It turns out that they found a pretty high correlation between homophobia and being turned out, basically, by gay pornography.

Rosner: That makes sense because sex is based, to some extent, on perversity. If you find homosexuality perverse, that will make it a little exciting.

Moderator: Or if you’re just someone who has a very traditional religious worldview.

Rosner: It makes it extra nasty.

Moderator: It makes it extra nasty. It also makes it extra scary. It probably gives rise to all forms of anger and trying to repression and means of wanting to obliterate this very inconvenient desire.

Rosner: But we’re all biology’s bitches. Sex is a dirty trick on the individual. It makes you act against your own interest. We have the worst president in history. There are a zillion reasons. But one of the reasons is because Anthony Weiner could not stop sexting underage girls.

Moderator: Yes, he’s largely responsible for it.

Rosner: Yes. During the writers’ strike of 2008, I produced a pilot just on my own call Don’t Get a Boner.

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Rosner: It was two guys. Each with a penis sleeve that was supposed to go off if they got a boner. Women would compete to grind on them and do whatever else they could to see whoever could be the first to make their guy get a boner.

I don’t that would fly now [Laughing].

Moderator: [Laughing] Yes. Neither would most of the Man Show now.

Rosner: I don’t know. Jimmy did a skit after Hannity was showing old Man Show clips.

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Rosner: It turned out Trump’s doorman had been paid off to keep quiet about a potential scandal. Jimmy had a deal where his doorman showed up during his monologue and decided to blackmail him, “If you do not pay me, I will tell everyone you did a show with girls on trampolines.”

Moderator: [Laughing].

Jimmy’s like, “Yes, the Man Show, everyone knows about that.”

Jacobsen: The things that make the headlines in the United States.

Rosner: Yes.

Jacobsen: In all fairness, some of the things and antics that make the news in Canada as well.

Rosner: I still look back fondly on when Margaret Trudeau didn’t wear panties to the disco.

Moderator: Who is Margaret Trudeau? Is she the prime minister’s mother?

Rosner: She is the prime minister’s mother. But was this super hot, super young, and wild, wife of Elliott Trudeau, right?

Jacobsen: Pierre Elliott Trudeau.

Rosner: A previous prime minister of Canada, it turned out she had undiagnosed manic depressive or bipolar disorder. She banged a bunche of people and went to Studio 64 not wearing undapants in 1978.

Moderator: [Laughing].

Rosner: It was very exciting teenage me who was looking for any opportunity to jack off to something.

Moderator: [Laughing].

Jacobsen: [Laughing] it almost seems benign and quaint now.

Rosner: Yes!

Jacobsen: So, the transition was approachability. Rick found a niche in that world of being approachable.

Rosner: Or schmuckability.

Jacobsen: It builds on the high school experience and bar experience, where you tried to be what you envisioned as a “not-so smart person.” Those skills have been adapted to build an admixture, seems to me.

Rosner: It is a standard comedy strategy. Non-comedy Twitter is people talking about how great their mini-blinds are, “Come to my mini-blinds for 15% off.” Comedy Twitter is “I am a fucking loser. I cannot control my eating. I have a fat butt.” It is people talking how inept and terrible they are.

At least, that is what comedy Twitter was before Trump. Now, comedy Twitter is people going crazy about Trump.

Moderator: There is a Jewish tradition to it, too.

Rosner: Yes.

Moderator: Would you say self-deprecating of this guy who just died, there was an HBO documentary.

Rosner: Gary Shandling?

Moderator: Gary Shandling and Rodney Dangerfield – was he Jewish?

Rosner: We’re all in this thing. We’re all kind of schmucks together.

Rosner: That’s how I got my wife to calm down about me doing this. Because she is always afraid that I will expose too much. I am like, “No, the whole deal is to show that I am human in my schmuckiness.”

Jacobsen: At the same time, there is a certain respect and honouring of privacy of those close to you.

Rosner: I know where to go and where not to go.

Moderator: What is she concerned about?

Rosner: I will give one story. Where I gave an interview to my hometown paper, they asked what it is like to write for TV. I said, “It is mostly good. Some people are nice. Some people are horrible.”

Then I was also asked about what my wife does. I said she worked for a particular celebrity. Somehow, the reporter mixed up the two quotes. It came out. That this certain celebrity was horrible.

Moderator: [Laughing].

Rosner: There was another thing. I was interviewed by an arm of Fox News. It was called The Daily, which was a daily newspaper for your tablet. There is something different called The Daily Now.

I set some ground rules for the interview. That they couldn’t say where I worked. Because I knew if they did, I would get in trouble. When they called up, when the story was ready to go, they said, “We are going to put where you work.”

I said, “You can’t. This was a condition for the interview.” This went on for two weeks. I fought with her. I fought with her editor. I insisted that they not say where I work. It pissed them over. They fucked me in the interview. They said that I was a sex addict.

The way that that came about was the reporter asked me how I get any sleep at all since I am up all night taking IQ tests. I said, “I am not up all night taking IQ tests. I average no more than 45 minutes a day on it.”

She asked the question again. I passive aggressively said, “I probably spend more time looking at porn than I do taking IQ tests.”

Moderator: [Laughing].

Rosner: That thing was turned into “super genius is a sex addict.” Then another outlet picked it up and did the math that I did on Kimmel. It said, “Jimmy Kimmel Writer is a Sex Addict.” This is the kind of stuff that scares Carole.

Moderator: Speaking for myself, I don’t have much interest in getting things wrong, one. Two, sensationalist crap journalism.

Rosner: It is a function of the media people are exposed to. This is the longest session, you and I, Scott, have ever done.

Moderator: How often do you do these?

Rosner: We do these often. I have been flaky lately. When I become tardy on something, I tend to withdraw a little bit.

Moderator: I do the same. What is the protocol? You do the interview. Then you transcribe it, Scott.

Jacobsen: Protocol, okay, we schedule the call at a time often, at this point, that is informal in terms of the scheduling of the call. We have the call. The consent is implied at this time. If I am doing a regular interview, I always ask for consent to record beforehand.

Then we finish the call. I will do a series of these calls and then go back, listen to the early part of the recording if I was conscientious enough, then I would say at the beginning of the call what publication this go into: Born to do Math, some politics one, Ask a Genius, Advice to Gifted and Talented Youth, etc.

Then I would transcribe and live edit, format that, give it some title or other, and then publish on the relevant publication that we put together. The most publications that we do end up on rickrosner.org.

Rosner: Also, you have found dozens of other places to publish your material. You and I have probably generated the most material of anybody that you’ve worked with over the past few years. But you work with a lot of people.

Moderator: You’ve been working several years.

Rosner: Yes. He caught me as I had just been fired by Kimmel.

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Rosner: He has been a great friend and encourager since then.

Jacobsen: I tend to be polite, but – this is the “but” – I remember being afraid of Rick at the time.

Moderator: It’s the wild sex addict.

Jacobsen: As I learned later, [Laughing] not the wild sex addict, as I learned in the journalistic world, sensationalist journalistic world at least, he had been fired at least. I had a suspicion it was the case.

Rosner: I was cranky.

Jacobsen: Yes, he calmed fast. Obviously, it amounted to an acute episode of frustration with someone to vent to, but that was channeled into eleven weeks of work that culminated in about 98,000 words. The longest interview that I have done by most stretches.

Rosner: Over the past 4 years, you have probably generated an average of 400,000 words a year, which is four thick ass books, a year.

Jacobsen: Potentially. It depends on the topic. Often, those will enter into various publications or will be free e-books. I make the ones for charge at a low price for ease of access.

Rosner: Should we call it a night? Or is there anything else that you want to talk about, or Scott?

Moderator: Scott, what’s your day job [Laughing]?

Jacobsen: I worked in a student union. I worked in restaurants. I did construction. I have done paid contract writing work…

Rosner: You have also done administrative and helped run the university.

Jacobsen: Yes, that would be policy and financial work, basically, of a university student union, which is different. I mean, there are large associations of student unions, where, not councillors but, executive officers in a student union go to and represent a collective.

So, they can advocate at the federal level. Sometimes, such as our own, a quarter million students in Canada, the second largest of its type, can advocate for finances for part-time students that are parents, international students, indigenous students.

That provides additional funding for people who would not have education otherwise. Let’s say we argue for $120 million roughly. The government would give us $90 million for this ask. The reason the federal government, not provincial or territorial, is listening is because a quarter million students are being advocate for, and they have been planning all year to meet with the ministers relevant to particular domains of the education system, of the postsecondary system in Canada.

Rosner: So, you’re living in a country that hasn’t gone crazy.

Jacobsen: It depends.

Moderator: [Laughing].

Rosner: I mean compared to south of you.

Jacobsen: Yes, in some ways, there are silver linings to what was called the Trump era. Dave Chappelle commented, which I think is accurate, that this will lead to a more informed voter. That is a positive way to look at it.

In other ways, I think it is leading to social pathologies coming right to the front of the conversation. America having more free speech than probably any other country, which is a very admirable thing.

Most Americans have, at least, an opinion, whether informed or not, on that topic. I do not mean conservatives aren’t informed and liberals are informed. I mean “everyone.” It can provide the basis for a more citizenry, probably, but it can leave room for more tacit or implicit things in the culture to be brought to light for discussion.

Rosner: It allows people to be more easily manipulated. We should have another session on how this election was the first AI election, where tech. was used to mess with everybody’s brains.

Jacobsen: Yes. The World Economic Forum has two words for it. One is the Fourth Industrial Revolution. The other is the Knowledge Economy. So, countries investing in artificial intelligence, in robotics, in higher educational skills of its citizenry, will be the ones to flourish in the 21st century.

Rosner: I think we should wrap up. Thank you! This was friggin’ ridiculous. This was great.

Moderator: [Laughing].

Jacobsen: If you’re interested in other organizations, Rick told me about some personal interest in the Mega Society.

Moderator: Yup.

Jacobsen: The other organizations or people you might want to look into, but it is a standard format: be polite and respectful. You’ll likely get a response in kind. Paul Cooijmans is one.

Rosner: Are you going to talk to Cooijmans? Cooijmans, you’re not necessarily interested in sensationalism. But Cooijmans has a story of someone who took one of his tests who ended up beheaded under a bridge.

Moderator: Is that right?

Rosner: There was someone who was part of Mega who murdered.

Jacobsen: Grady Towers was murdered!

Moderator: Yes, he was murdered.

Jacobsen: I forgot about that. That’s sad.

Moderator: By an Aryan satanist.

Rosner: Was Grady Towers African-American?

Moderator: No, I don’t think it was race-based. I think this guy was going on a killing spree of sorts. I have to dig into that story more. You can find articles of Grady Towers. Wasn’t it in 2000 something?

Jacobsen: If you look at International High IQ Society, it seemed to fizz out pretty quick. It seems that guy was in some intelligence test documentary.

Moderator: Battle of the Brains.

Jacobsen: Yes, that guy, he committed suicide.

Moderator: In Denver.

Rosner: Because he didn’t do well on the competition?

Moderator: No, I think he was a troubled guy in a lot of ways. He was a former Wall Street trader. He started with the New York High IQ Society. Then it became International High IQ Society. I interacted with some of those folks way back when. Some are extremely interesting people.

At the time, it was the second-highest IQ society next to Mensa. It was really big. Then it went to shit.

Jacobsen: It was a big net.

Moderator: Yes, it was a big net. It was below Mensa, 2 standard deviations above the norm. It was a way to have interesting conversations with other folks who may not be super IQ test oriented. A quick thing, they are somewhat intellectual and may have stuff to offer.

Rosner: I wonder if Tinder has put a further wrench into this kind of stuff.

Moderator: What do you mean?

Rosner: The only reason I joined Mensa is cause I thought I might be able to hook up. One time, I wrote to Marilyn Savant. I said, ‘Can I join the Mega Society? Do you want to go on a date?’

Moderator: [Laughing].

Rosner: She said, “You don’t qualify.” She didn’t say anything about the date.

Jacobsen: You could look into the World Intelligence Network. I was working with Manahel on that for a few months a while ago. She was the vice-president. Evangelos Katsioulis was the president. You might have difficulty reaching them. However, you could use that as a resource with, at least, the listings. They may have more societies in it, now.

Moderator: What was the name of the group again?

Jacobsen: The World Intelligence Network, at the head of it, it is Evangelos Katsioulis.

Moderator: Is he a Greek professor of philosophy?

Rosner: Isn’t he a shrink?

Jacobsen: He is a shrink. He has an M.D., Ph.D. He has a masters in philosophy. He has a masters in information technology. He has an M.D. in psychiatry and a Ph.D. in psychopharmacology. He is involved in an incredible number of things.

Rosner: He posts on Twitter in Greek. Without tweeting, I give it a fav. and hope that whatever he says doesn’t involve a dong.

Moderator: [Laughing].

Jacobsen: That’s one thing with people in that world. They have a sensibility of most other people in the general population, which is: if you’re nice, polite, and respectful, you’ll get treated the same if that helps.

Moderator: Yes! It sounds like you’ve been doing this for quite some time. 

Rosner: I am going to call an end.

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Moderator: Good meeting you, Scott, we’ll talk again. I’m sure.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] According to some semi-reputable sources gathered in a listing hereRick G. Rosner may have among America’s, North America’s, and the world’s highest measured IQs at or above 190 (S.D. 15)/196 (S.D. 16) based on several high range test performances created by Christopher HardingJason BettsPaul Cooijmans, and Ronald Hoeflin. He earned 12 years of college credit in less than a year and graduated with the equivalent of 8 majors. He has received 8 Writers Guild Awards and Emmy nominations, and was titled 2013 North American Genius of the Year by The World Genius Directory with the main “Genius” listing here. He has written for Remote ControlCrank YankersThe Man ShowThe EmmysThe Grammys, and Jimmy Kimmel Live!. He worked as a bouncer, a nude art model, a roller-skating waiter, and a stripper. In a television commercialDomino’s Pizza named him the “World’s Smartest Man.” The commercial was taken off the air after Subway sandwiches issued a cease-and-desist. He was named “Best Bouncer” in the Denver Area, Colorado, by Westwood Magazine. Rosner spent much of the late Disco Era as an undercover high school student. In addition, he spent 25 years as a bar bouncer and American fake ID-catcher, and 25+ years as a stripper, and nearly 30 years as a writer for more than 2,500 hours of network television. Errol Morris featured Rosner in the interview series entitled First Person, where some of this history was covered by Morris. He came in second, or lost, on Jeopardy!, sued Who Wants to Be a Millionaire? over a flawed question and lost the lawsuit. He won one game and lost one game on Are You Smarter Than a Drunk Person? (He was drunk). Finally, he spent 37+ years working on a time-invariant variation of the Big Bang Theory. Currently, Rosner sits tweeting in a bathrobe (winter) or a towel (summer). He lives in Los AngelesCalifornia with his wife, dog, and goldfish. He and his wife have a daughter. You can send him money or questions at LanceVersusRick@Gmail.Com, or a direct message via Twitter, or find him on LinkedIn, or see him on YouTube.

[2] Individual Publication Date: February 1, 2022: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/jacobsen-rosner-anonymous; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Iakovos Koukas on Personal and Family History, Work, Genius, and Views: President & Founder, GENIUS High IQ Network (1)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/02/01

Abstract

Iakovos Koukas is the President and Founder of THIS High IQ Society, 4G High IQ Society, BRAIN High IQ Society, ELITE High IQ Society, 6N High IQ Society, NOUS High IQ Society, 6G High IQ Society, NOUS200 High IQ Society, GIFTED High IQ Network, GENIUS High IQ Network, GENIUS Initiative, GENIUS Journal, IQ GENIUS platform, and Test My IQ platform. He is the author of the GIFT High Range IQ Test series, the GENE High Range IQ Test series, the VAST IQ Test series, and the VICE IQ Test series. He discusses: growing up; a sense of an extended self; the family background; the experience with peers and schoolmates; some professional certifications; the purpose of intelligence tests; high intelligence discovered; the extreme reactions to and treatment of geniuses; the greatest geniuses in history; a genius from a profoundly intelligent person; profound intelligence necessary for genius; work experiences and jobs; particular job path; the gifted and geniuses; God; science; the tests taken and scores earned (with standard deviations); the range of the scores; ethical philosophy; social philosophy; economic philosophy; political philosophy; metaphysics; philosophical system; meaning in life; meaning externally derived, or internally generated; an afterlife; the mystery and transience of life; and love.

Keywords: Christian Orthodox, Christianity, family, genius, GENIUS High IQ Network, God, Greek, Iakovos Koukas, intelligence, IQ, metaphysics, Mykonian, philosophy, religion, science.

Conversation with Iakovos Koukas on Personal and Family History, Work, Genius, and Views: President & Founder, GENIUS High IQ Network (1)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: When you were growing up, what were some prominent family stories being told over time?

Iakovos Koukas[1],[2]*: I grew up during the 80s and 90s. I am the fourth child of a Mykonian Greek family. My parents met each other and fell in love when they were still in their teens. My father went to serve the Greek Army as soon as he was eligible for military service, which is mandatory in Greece. He served after the Greek Civil War, during a very tense period of Greek history. His military service lasted for three years, and he had no way of contacting his family, so his family, friends, and my mother thought he was dead. After his military service was over, he showed up one day on the doorstep of my mother’s house. She was so surprised and relieved to see him. My parents had three kids before me (I have one sister and two brothers), and I was born 14 years after the birth of my older brother when my parents were already middle-aged and weren’t expecting another child. Another story was that of my grandfather from my father’s side. He was an immigrant to the United States of America in the first quarter of the twentieth century. He lived and worked for more than 20 years in the city of Joliet, Illinois. He became a very successful and rich landowner but decided to sell everything in the USA so he could return to his home island, Mykonos, and get married to a Greek girl who had stolen his heart: my grandmother.

Jacobsen: Have these stories helped provide a sense of an extended self or an understanding of the family legacy?

Koukas: Of course, they did. The story I mentioned, among other ones, helped me develop a strong self-identity and a deep understanding of my family roots and purpose in life.

Jacobsen: What was the family background, e.g., geography, culture, language, and religion or lack thereof?

Koukas: Both my parents were born, raised, and fell in love with each other on the Greek island of Mykonos. All my grandparents were Mykonians as well. They only spoke Greek, but my grandfather was quite educated and spoke English and several other languages as well. All the members of my family are Orthodox Christians.

Jacobsen: How were the experience with peers and schoolmates as a child and as an adolescent?

Koukas: I had quite bad experiences with my peers and schoolmates during my childhood and adolescence. I had very few friends. Due to my giftedness, I had almost nothing in common with the other kids. I used to spend time writing fiction novels and philosophical essays or building complex electronic circuits for use in automation and robotics when other kids were out playing or going to parties, having fun, etc. I was a victim of social isolation and school bullying. All those bad experiences gave me an even greater inner strength, a stronger will, and a sense of purpose in life.

Jacobsen: What have been some professional certifications, qualifications, and training earned by you?

Koukas: I have work experience in several different jobs. As a senior banking officer, I hold certifications in banking services for the shipping industry, investment banking, insurance-based banking products, merchant acquiring services. As an author, I hold certifications in the history and philosophy of science. I have also attended several seminars in cognitive psychology and psychometrics.

Jacobsen: What is the purpose of intelligence tests to you?

Koukas: Individuals need to know their IQs to evaluate themselves, recognize and improve their strengths, and identify and overcome their weaknesses. IQ scores are predictors of an individual’s school and academic performance, professional career. They are directly related to income and wealth. IQ scores derived from IQ tests are widely used for educational placement, choice of professional career, assessment of one’s intellectual disability, learning disorder, and evaluation of job candidates.

Jacobsen: When was high intelligence discovered for you?

Koukas: I always knew I was intelligent due to my several and diverse intellectual interests, but it never crossed my mind that I might be exceptionally or profoundly gifted. I discovered my high intelligence after receiving the score of my first proctored test (WAIS), where I scored at the fourth standard deviation above average, which was the ceiling of the specific test, and after another two Mensa exams, in which I again achieved ceiling scores.

Jacobsen: When you think of how the geniuses of the past have either been mocked, vilified, and condemned if not killed, or praised, flattered, platformed, and revered, what seems like the reason for the extreme reactions to and treatment of geniuses? Many alive today seem camera shy – many, not all.

Koukas: Geniuses are deviants and belong to a small minority of society. Since the dawn of humanity, human societies have treated all minorities in an entirely different way than the supposedly normal people. In the past but even today, we see geniuses getting mocked and vilified because they are different, and they are only getting praised and flattered after they receive some form of social recognition: a Fields Medal, a Nobel Prize, or any breakthrough which is announced by the media as beneficial to humankind. It’s understandable that most geniuses are introverts and, therefore, shy.

Jacobsen: Who seems like the greatest geniuses in history to you?

Koukas: Plato, Aristotle, Archimedes, Pythagoras, Gauss, Riemann, Curie, Hopper, Newton, and Einstein are some of my favorite geniuses.

Jacobsen: What differentiates a genius from a profoundly intelligent person?

Koukas: Social recognition for a breakthrough (discovery or invention) that benefits humankind. Even though many profoundly gifted people can be as creative and as innovative as some of the most well-known geniuses, the difference is that the latter get social recognition for their creations and innovations.

Jacobsen: Is profound intelligence necessary for genius?

Koukas: Profound intelligence is not necessary for genius. Some renowned geniuses, like James Watson and Francis Crick (who won the Nobel Prize in Medicine for their discovery of the structure of DNA), had IQs below the second standard deviation above the norm, and they weren’t even considered gifted. Certain artistic geniuses, like Andy Warhol, were even considered below average in terms of intelligence. Although sometimes exceptional giftedness is used as a synonym for genius, I don’t think it should be. Most human beings are gifted with positive intellectual and personality qualities, which, if used and developed in a proper way, could lead many people to genius achievements.

Jacobsen: What have been some work experiences and jobs held by you?

Koukas: I have worked as a banker for 18 years, as an author for 24 years, as a publisher for two years, and as an entrepreneur (IQ testing websites owner) for eight years.

Jacobsen: Why pursue this job path?

Koukas: I always pursue to do professionally the things I love. I cannot stop being creative, and I am constantly setting new goals and creating new projects.

Jacobsen: What are some of the more essential aspects of the idea of the gifted and geniuses? Those myths pervade the cultures of the world. What are those myths? What truths dispel them?

Koukas: Many people think that the gifted and the geniuses are some kinds of superhumans or saviors of the world. They think that geniuses could save human species from extinction by discovering the elixir of immortality, stopping climate change, curing all diseases, or leading the way for humanity’s space colonization. This is not the case. The gifted and the geniuses are just people. They have certain limitations as to what they can do because science itself has limitations. They also don’t have unlimited resources and funding available, even when they are top researchers or even tech billionaires.

Jacobsen: Do you have any thoughts on the God concept or God’s idea and philosophy, theology, and religion?

Koukas: I believe that God exists and that He created the Universe. There are many indications of His existence, but there is no evidence in the scientific sense. This is a long discussion, a topic for a treatise, that would combine aspects of the philosophy of science with aspects of the philosophy of religion. I am a Christian Orthodox.

Jacobsen: How much does science play into the worldview for you?

Koukas: I am a man of science. I always use the scientific method and the philosophy of science whenever I am considering a theory, a hypothesis, an idea, or a concept.

Jacobsen: What have been some of the tests taken and scores earned (with standard deviations) for you?

Koukas: I have taken many IQ tests and earned various IQ scores during the last ten years that I am an active part of the high IQ community. Some of my IQ scores: 164 SD15 on WAIS-III (4.27 SD above the norm, ceiling score of the test), 170 SD15 on Einplex (4.67 SD above the norm, top score globally on the test), 172 SD15 on Hieroglyphica (4.80 SD above the norm, one of the highest scores on the test), 175 SD15 on WARP (5 SD above the norm, top score on the test at the time taken), 180 SD15 on Verbatim (5.33 SD above the norm, top score globally on the test), 208 SD15 on MATRIQ (7.20 SD above the norm, top score globally on the test).

Jacobsen: What ethical philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Koukas: I usually use two approaches to my personal ethical philosophy; the first is utilitarian, and the second is deontological. While I believe that an ethical choice is the one that will produce the greatest good (or well-being) for the greatest number of people, at the same time, I think that one should act according to this rule: “Do unto others as you would be done by.”

Jacobsen: What social philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Koukas: A social philosophy that would emphasize the need for collaboration between diverse social groups towards the greater good and finding solutions for the problems we are facing in our modern societies. For example, science through prominent scientists and researchers, religion through prominent priests and believers, politics through prominent politicians and voters, and philosophy through prominent philosophers and scholars should collaborate towards a common goal: finding solutions for the challenges all people are facing in modern societies.

Jacobsen: What political philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Koukas: Equality of opportunity and elimination of any discrimination in society is my preferable political philosophy. Positions and posts that grant superior advantages should be open to all people who would be qualified through their individual skills and hard work, regardless of race, gender, ethnicity, religion, caste, or status.

Jacobsen: What metaphysics makes some sense to you, even the most workable sense to you?

Koukas: The type of metaphysics that would outline God as the first cause and the last end of the Universe. He is the Alpha and the Omega, the purpose of everything, and we can see indications of His existence in His living and non-living creations.

Jacobsen: What worldview-encompassing philosophical system makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Koukas: Christian philosophy. The whole world of our experience is a challenge, a problem that demands to be resolved, but the solution of the problem lies within a region to which only thought and faith can penetrate. Human beings’ natural trend is towards philosophy and religion. The religious instinct forces most humans to recognize their dependence upon the first cause and last end of all existence. Religion, no less than philosophy and science, calls for the exercise of the reason so that every human can be guided to the knowledge of the existence of the Supreme Being: God.

Jacobsen: What provides meaning in life for you?

Koukas: Helping other people become aware of their cognitive potential so that they can further develop it, spreading the knowledge of what is truly important and meaningful in life, working towards the greater good through certain initiatives of my GENIUS High IQ Network, and becoming a more enlightened human being so that I can improve my life and the lives of the people who love, respect, follow or know me.

Jacobsen: Is meaning externally derived, internally generated, both, or something else?

Koukas: Meaning is mostly internally generated after we receive a necessary amount of knowledge and wisdom from science, religion, philosophy, and theology.

Jacobsen: Do you believe in an afterlife? If so, why, and in what form? If not, why not?

Koukas: I believe in the afterlife because I am a Christian Orthodox, and I have done my research in science as well. We are created in the image of God. Each person has a consciousness/mind, a physical body, and a soul/spirit. Our consciousness and soul will live forever, and our physical body will, too, after the Second Coming of Jesus.

Jacobsen: What do you make of the mystery and transience of life?

Koukas: Nobody has ever explained the mysteries of life. I believe that the meaning of life is to discover love and start spreading it to all beings, including humans and animals. Only the physical form of life is transient. As I already explained above, I believe life continues in another form after the death of our physical bodies, and even our physical bodies will be resurrected after the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.

Jacobsen: What is love to you?

Koukas: Love is like gravity or the electromagnetic force that holds things together; love holds people together. Love is a union between people, and people that are united through love can solve most of the problems that now seem unsolved. True love is selfless and unconditional. You strive for the well-being of the people you truly love, and you expect nothing in return.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] President & Founder, THIS High IQ Society, 4G High IQ Society, BRAIN High IQ Society, ELITE High IQ Society, 6N High IQ Society, NOUS High IQ Society, 6G High IQ Society, NOUS200 High IQ Society, GIFTED High IQ Network, GENIUS High IQ Network, GENIUS Initiative, GENIUS Journal, IQ GENIUS platform, and Test My IQ platform.

[2] Individual Publication Date: February 1, 2022: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/koukas-1; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

The Greenhorn Chronicles 2: Sandy Bell, B.Sc., M.A. on Mature Equine Life and the Alberta Equestrian Federation (1)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/01/22

Abstract

Sandy Bell’s personal biography states: “Windhorse Retreat was born in early 2014 when I transitioned from the urban to the rural lifestyle to pursue my dream of living with horses and offering equine facilitated personal development.  My goal was to establish Windhorse as a place where ‘horses help us reach our full potential,’ and that included my own life-long learning.  At my day retreat in central Alberta, horses and humans come together in deeply meaningful ways for unique learning experiences.  As well as providing equine assisted learning opportunities with horses as your guides, I host related workshops and clinics, so you can learn to help your equine friends or deepen your relationships with them. Community development and volunteerism is core to my lifestyle, so you’ll find me volunteering on committees or boards as the opportunities arise.  Currently, I serve the Alberta equestrian community as the President of the Board of Directors of the Alberta Equestrian Federation. I hold a B.Sc. (Psychology), a M.A. (Communications & Technology) and am an alumnus of EAL-Canada.  I’m a member of the Alberta Association of Complementary Equine Therapy as a Craniosacral Practitioner and Energy Based Practitioner.” She discusses: becoming involved with horses; being a later horse bloomer; equestrianism in Alberta; the Alberta Equestrian Federation; organizations that are provincial or territorial for equestrians; the national organization; the bylaws and structures; differences amongst the bylaws and structures; common personalities or backgrounds of people coming into equestrianism; one common theme in responses; demographics; facilities; Canada’s reputation internationally.

Keywords: Alberta Association of Complementary Equine Therapy, Alberta Equestrian Federation, Calgary Stampede, EAL-Canada, equestrianism, equine, facilitated personal development, mature, Sandy Bell, Spruce Meadows, Windhorse Retreat.

The Greenhorn Chronicles 2: Sandy Bell, B.Sc., M.A. on Mature Equine Life and the Alberta Equestrian Federation (1)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Today, we are interviewing Sandy Bell, who is the President of the Alberta Equestrian Federation. She also runs Windhorse Retreat. I want to take a narrative approach, as with most interviews in this series. What age did you start with horses?

Sandy Bell[1],[2]: I was 47, Scott. I came to it as a mature rider.

Jacobsen: How did you come to it, late? Or I should rephrase that, “How did you come to it later than most of the people whom I am aware of?”

Bell: As a girl, I had fantasies of having a horse in my life. It wasn’t possible. Then I got caught up in getting a job, then having a family, then things happen. Time passed. During that time, I, perhaps, went on two or three trail rides. The nose to tail thing, they offer. That’s great. Then a girlfriend said to me, “I do a trail ride. It is an overnight 4-day pack ride. Would you like to come?” I, knowing nothing, really, thought, “How hard could it be?” [Laughing]

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Bell: At the end of the four days, I had never been so sore, so dirty, but so happy. There was something about spending time all day with horses outside that really resonated with my soul. Within the week, coming back home, I booked my first riding lessons. It just grew from there. I learn to ride, bought my first horse within the year, and off we go.

Jacobsen: You have a quote, “The horse has the strength of 20 men, the speed to outrun the wind, and the grace to heal us, yet remains humble enough to let us ride upon his back. – source.” (Unknown Source) What does that quote mean to you?

Bell: That quote summarizes my philosophy of being with horses. I evolved my understanding of them and how I want to be with them. At first, it was more directly related to horses being co-facilitator in horse-powered personal development. Now, for me, it has become more than that. Because I truly believe horses are sentient beings with complex social structures and individual lives as well.

So, it is an extraordinary relationship. If I tease it apart, it amazes me every time I think about it in depth because this being, the horse, can offer us so much if we’re ready to see it and accept it. All the way from riding on their back and gaining that freedom that that grants us to interacting with them in ways that they are, actually, healers.

Jacobsen: What form of equestrianism is most prevalent in Alberta?

Bell: If we base it on the membership of the Alberta Equestrian Federation[3], it is recreational riders. Those are people who do Western pleasure, English pleasure, and trail riding. There is, of course, a significant industry component in Alberta with rodeo sport, e.g., Spruce Meadows, reining horses. That whole other competitions area, overall, I think, it is the pleasure horse or the trail horse.

Jacobsen: How many members are part of the Alberta Equestrian Federation?

Bell: Currently, we have 18,000 members. If I broke that down, I think recreational riders are about 80%.

Jacobsen: That’s a lot.

Bell: It could be an artifact of people who get memberships in something. Because we haven’t really examined that. But there are members who come to us, initially, through sport, because to go to a competition in Alberta, for example, you need an Alberta Equestrian Federation membership. That’s because of the insurance component. Things like that.

Jacobsen: For organizations that are provincial or territorial for equestrians, are they, more or less, run in a democratic manner?

Bell: Yes, they are all not-for-profit. The major equestrian organizations are; I can’t speak to the other horse organizations, e.g., Horse Racing Alberta, but, definitely, the major ones recognized by government as the major sport organizations, e.g., Alberta Equestrian Federation, Horse Council BC. We’re all not-for-profit.

Jacobsen: How do they link to the national organization(s)?

Bell: Through membership, so, each of the provinces and territories can become a member of Equestrian Canada. That’s the linkage there. Canada, that’s how we connect. It’s a fairly similar model, I believe, to other sports. Now, we are not a branch of the national organization. Each of the provinces and territories are independent entities unto themselves with their own separate structures and bylaws.

Jacobsen: Are most of the bylaws and structures similar and seemingly standardized to one another, though independent or autonomous?

Bell: I think, you could say they are similar. It is how boards are to be run, the structure of the board of directors. Things like that. I think there might be some significant differences. Perhaps, not in terms of bylaws, but in terms of operating policies, I think the bylaws at the provincial and territorial level are fairly similar or complementary.

Jacobsen: Which parts stand out as differences amongst them, between them?

Bell: I think it may be in terms of their membership. For example, in Alberta, the bulk of our membership identify as recreational riders. It may be different in other provinces. For example, Ontario may have a higher percentage or proportion of us. People interested in sport. I can’t really say for sure, though, Scott.

It has been interesting, as an aside. I have been President for almost a year now. The whole time has been through Zoom. So, building relationships with my counterparts in other organizations has been hampered a bit, so, my knowledge, about who they really are, is probably limited.

Jacobsen: Are there common personalities or backgrounds of people coming into equestrianism? Or is it basically every personality type and background?

Bell: I think it’s every background and personality type. That’s the beautiful thing about it. [Laughing] Some people might say, “That’s the frustrating thing about it.” [Laughing]

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Bell: If you ask a group of horse people a question, perhaps, about horses, for the 12 people there, you’ll get 20 different answers. That’s a joke that is tossed around, very varied. I think what unites everyone is a passion for the equine.

Jacobsen: One common theme in responses, if not the word, then the concept behind what they’re saying, is the idea of equestrianism as a “lifestyle.” People who start in it. A foot in the door phenomenon, sooner or later, it becomes their whole life; or, they’ve been in it their whole life. Is that a common thing?

Bell: Yes, Scott, I think it’s a common thing. Perhaps, the people who it doesn’t become more a part of their day-to-day life. There might be some barriers to being involved with horses. Personally, I am lucky. My costs per horse are lower than someone who is boarding because I am fortunate to have my own pasture, my own barn. Things like that.

It is, definitely, not cheap to have a horse. Here in Alberta, we have been looking at numbers. We aren’t quite ready to release a study of the economic impact of the equestrian industry on Alberta. But when we look at what people spend on a horse, its quite a lot. $1,200 per horse is a reasonable amount of money. That’s not counting people with horses in competitive programs who need lessons and travel with their horse or who have special needs for boarding.

Jacobsen: Another aspect of some of the conversations has been somewhere between 11 and 18 years old. You find a lot more young women. Then as you move into the older ages and the international level of any area of equestrianism – dressage, eventing, hunting, jumping, etc., you find for men. But it’s more balanced than the younger ages, particularly North America. Is this your observation as well?

Bell: Yes, I think, this is reflected in membership, Scott. I don’t have the number off the top of mind. But it is women of a certain age. Women who can have a horse. They are a primary or large percentage of our numbers. Now, we have identified that, as a board, as something that we would like to change.

Both to change at the entry level and at the age that kids can start to get involved, or would like to see kids involved in the sport – all the way up to retirement age, when people are leaving their full-time jobs. The other aspect of that, Scott, and, maybe, you have observed it. We lack diversity. Why is that? We’re not sure.

We are exploring that as well, trying to tease that apart, because it would be great to have other cultural communities involved with horses. Then we have the Indigenous people who have a very strong history and affiliation with the horse. We’re not sure what we can offer them, what kind of partnerships. They should be more visible. So, it is not just women. It is, also, white women.

Jacobsen: What facilities have garnered the most prominent reputation for all of Alberta for equestrianism?

Bell: Spruce Meadows for sure. The Calgary Stampede, [Laughing] both are very different from each other. At one time, we would have included the racetracks. But they’re kind of folding. The Canadian Finals Rodeo, it was, in Alberta, a source of pride. Then we had some pretty significant horse fairs, which have been discontinued because of Covid: Horse Expo kind of thing. Right now, worldwide, people know about Spruce Meadows and the Calgary Stampede.

Jacobsen: How is Canada’s reputation internationally within the equine world?

Bell: That’s an interesting one to think about. If we didn’t have Team Canada, like Ian Millar, Eric Lamaze, people of that standing. I’m not sure we would even be known on the world stage, really [Laughing]. There have been a few key or extraordinary riders in Canada, who are household names, internationally.

Now, if you’re within that community, so if you’re riding at the FEI levels in Dressage, for example, you would know of the people in Canada, but, for me, that’s not the circle I’m in. I represent more of the grassroots person.

References

Alberta Equestrian Federation. (2022). Board of Directors. Retrieved from https://www.albertaequestrian.com.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] President, Board of Directors, Alberta Equestrian Federation; Principal, Windhorse Retreat.

[2] Individual Publication Date: January 22, 2022: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/bell-1; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

[3] Alberta Equestrian Federation. (2022). Board of Directors. Retrieved from https://www.albertaequestrian.com.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Would You Be My Neighbour? 1: Door’s Open

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/01/15

Abstract

Dr. Herb Silverman is the Founder of the Secular Coalition for America, the Founder of the Secular Humanists of the Lowcountry, and the Founder of the Atheist/Humanist Alliance student group at the College of Charleston. He authored Complex variables (1975), Candidate Without a Prayer: An Autobiography of a Jewish Atheist in the Bible Belt (2012) and An Atheist Stranger in a Strange Religious Land: Selected Writings from the Bible Belt (2017). He co-authored The Fundamentals of Extremism: The Christian Right in America (2003) with Kimberley Blaker and Edward S. Buckner, Complex Variables with Applications (2007) with Saminathan Ponnusamy, and Short Reflections on Secularism (2019), Short Reflections on American Secularism’s History and Philosophy (2020), and Short Reflections on Age and Youth (2020). He discusses: the series; future directions as the perspective; who would have been great guests, who are dead; the ordinariness of a secular humanist philosophy; and a statement or enticement for others to join us.

Keywords: blue collar, Christopher Hitchens, ethics, Fred Rogers, Herb Silverman, Humanism, morality, no collar, Secular Humanism, Thomas Paine, white collar.

Would You Be My Neighbour? 1: Door’s Open

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: “Would You Be My Neighbour?” is named in honour of an advocate of kindness, fairness, and compassion in the United States: Fred Rogers. I posed this as a collaborative series while kept with core conversations between you and me. In short, we have discussions, invite guests, and publish the results. The focus would be less about theory and philosophy of Secular Humanism, and more about the daily life of Secular Humanism. There’s a lot of science fiction discussions about Transhumanism, post-Humanism, neo-Humanism, or tired talk about church and state separation, and the like, though intriguing on the former and important politically and socially on the latter. I work at a stable. I work with horses 7 days per week sunrise to sunset. I consider this one of the biggest blind spots in the enactment of the ethic. People can go online, debate, argue, tweet, TikTok, chat on Facebook, take part in WhatsApp encrypted secular groups all over the world, and take part in academic philosophical discussions, or make declarations (or renewals thereof), so on and so forth. But that’s not really the main deal and never has been with Secular Humanism, for me. The ‘blue collar’ is ignored for the ‘white collar’ academicism of secular humanist thought; the human rights activism can triumph in attention due to its grand intents over daily acts of magnanimity.  The more visceral world: You lose your hair and grow hair in weird(er) places, get pimples (again) and ingrown hairs, acquire stretch marks and deep seated wrinkles and fine lines, start wearing glasses, lose sharpness of mind and physique, add a few pounds here and there, decline in height and muscle mass and bone density, lose teeth and get more stained teeth, care less about fashion trends, get a decline in virility… you know, aging. The world of the everyday, the ordinary, where, in fact, the reality of our greatest sphere of humanist influence could possibly exist. So, blah blah blah, what is the hope or expectation in this collaborative endeavour for the ongoing work together in this series for you?

Dr. Herb Silverman[1],[2]: I guess I’m considered a “white collar” rather than a “blue collar” person because I am an academician who enjoys philosophical discussions about secular humanism. In truth, I’m a “no collar” person, since I mostly wear T-shirts that I got from running in races, or T-shirts that I wear to promote secular humanism. I agree with you that we need to expand our base and find ways to reach the “common man” and “common woman,” many of whom are humanists who have never heard about humanism. A limited way I engage with such people is through common interests in other areas, including concerns about the environment, civil rights, education, health, and charity work. I often try to bring humanism into the conversation, showing why it is consistent with the issues they care about. My expectation in this collaborative effort is to hear how others are reaching out to potential humanists and then try to follow their lead.

Jacobsen: If we take the perspective of future directions, we can explore some of the more high-falutin’ material within secular humanist philosophy, while grounding this in the item of most import to me: The banalizing of it, making it everyday, humdrum, ordinary, normative. What are some topics of interest to you? Those with which every secular humanist must become acquainted to protect the way of life, the lifestance. 

Silverman: What every secular humanist needs to know is that our U.S. Constitution grants us freedom of religion, which must include freedom from religion. When religion is discussed in public, it’s okay to say we have no god beliefs. We should not belittle the religious beliefs of others. That is not the way to make friends and influence people. Better to be a role model based on what we do, rather than what we say.

Jacobsen: Who is dead, but would have made a great guest? Why them?

Silverman: Christopher Hitchens, whom I had the pleasure of knowing, would have made a great guest. He was a member of the Advisory Board of the Secular Coalition for America. He  could discuss and give good arguments on just about any subject. His book, god is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything, deservedly became a best seller. A lesser known but terrific book of his is The Missionary Position: Mother Teresa in Theory and Practice. Hitchens was a true contrarian, with a sharp wit, who could easily get to the heart of the matter. One of his best known quotes, referred to as “Hitchens’s razor” is, “What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.” I hope Hitchens wasn’t thinking of my autobiography, published in 2007, when he said in 1997: “Everybody does have a book in them, but in most cases that’s where it should stay.” In 1992, long before Donald Trump decided to run for president, Hitchens commented about Trump, “Nobody is more covetous and greedy than those who have far too much.” Richard Dawkins said of Hitchens, “He was a polymath, a wit, immensely knowledgeable, and a valiant fighter against all tyrants, including imaginary supernatural ones.”

Thomas Paine, from a much earlier era, would have been a very good guest. Paine has a claim to the title “The Father of the American Revolution,” due to his inspiring pamphlets, especially Common Sense. In 1776 it was the all-time best-selling American title and aroused the demand for American independence from Great Britain. Many phrase in Common Sense became part of the U.S. Declaration of Independence. In The Age of Reason and other writings, Paine argued against institutionalized religions in general and the Christian doctrine in particular. He thought that Deism should replace all revelation-based religion. At the time, as well as now, such words were rather unpopular among Christians and politicians. I visited the Tom Paine Printing Press in England, and purchased a framed quote of his that now hangs on my condo wall: “My country is the world. My religion is to do good.” If I could talk to Paine today, I would ask if he would have switched from Deism to atheism in light of what we now know about evolution and the Big Bang, showing that no creator was necessary.

Jacobsen: Who might embody the ordinariness of a secular humanist philosophy to you?

Silverman: The many “nones,” people who are religiously unaffiliated. They are the fastest growing “religious” demographic in the U.S. They are not all secular humanists, but a significant percentage are and many others are secular humanists without knowing it. A lot of “nones” have examined the available evidence and stopped believing in any gods.

Jacobsen: For those who might be interested in this new educational collaborative discussion series, what would be your statement or enticement for them to join us?

Silverman: I think it is a good idea for us to collaborate and pick up new ideas and ways of explaining things about secular humanism. It is always beneficial to communicate with other secular humanists. We inspire one another in our work to improve society.

Jacobsen: Thank you for the opportunity and your time, Dr. Silverman. 

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Founder, Secular Coalition for America; Founder, Secular Humanists of the Low Country; Founder, Atheist/Humanist Alliance, College of Charleston.

[2] Individual Publication Date: January 15, 2022: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/neighbour-1; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

The Greenhorn Chronicles 1: Joelle Froese on Abbotsford, Bradner Hills Farm, and In Stride Equestrian Training

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/01/08

Abstract

Joelle Froese has been riding since 7 years old. In 1999, her family moved to Bradner Hill Farms. She has been riding and caring for horses for a long time. She has competed in show jumping at HITS Desert Classic, Rocky Mountain Show Jumping, Sonoma Show Park, Spruce Meadows, The Royal Agricultural Winter Fair, and Thunderbird. She won Bronze at the North American Young Riders (senior division) on Condor, her first grand prix horse. Condor and Froese, in the same year, won, as champions, at amateur jumpers and third in the National Talent Squad Finals at the Royal. In 2013, she founded In Stride Equestrian Training. She won her first grand prix in 2016. It was on her mare, Romeos Child,  for the $15,000 Kubota Grand Prix at Thunderbird. Also, she and Romeos Child won the BCHJA Luigi Grand Prix Horse of the Year award in 2017 & 2018. Froese trained with Olympians Jill Henselwood (Canadian), Buddy Brown (United States), as well as Susie Hutchinson (US Nations Cup rider) and Kate Perrin (British team rider). Froese has competed in Third Level dressage and is an Equine Canada certified Competition Coach Specialist. She discusses: riding at 7; The Lower Mainland of British Columbia, Canada; the family move to Bradner Hills Farm; the process of working and training; competitive show jumping; medals, ribbons, and positions; In Stride Equestrian; the different types of competitions or show types for show jumping; show jumpers or hunters who have made the most positive impact on the career in equestrianism; main lessons or takeaways from Henselwood, Brown, Hutchinson, and Perrin; the state of the industry in the Lower Mainland; the international scene; haves and have-nots in Canada; the sense and feel of working with a horse; Bradner Hill Farms; camaraderie; an apparent gender split in the industry in Canada; and advice for younger people getting into the industry.

Keywords: Abbotsford, Bradner Hill Farm, Canada, dressage, equestrianism, Equine Canada, equitation, Joelle Froese, Langley, North America, show jumping, Thunderbird, Thunderbird Show Park.

The Greenhorn Chronicles 1: Joelle Froese on Abbotsford, Bradner Hills Farm, and In Stride Equestrian Training

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Naturally, let’s begin at the beginning, as I intend this as an educational series beginning with Canada and then moving into the international scene of equestrianism, I figure the narrative entering into the equine will be helpful. What were the first inklings of an interest in horses for you? Most of the equestrians with some facility or competing seem to have begun in the single digit ages. You started riding at 7. 

Joelle Froese[1],[2]: Love of animals goes at least as far back as my grandfather. My mother is an animal lover and I have carried on the tradition. You typically think of little girls as playing with dolls. I didn’t. I played with stuffed animals. And toy horses. Lots of toy horses. I owned one Barbie doll – it was the one that came with a horse, a truck, and trailer. When I was 7 years old, my piano teacher’s daughter invited us to see her horses and gave me my first unofficial riding lessons. I was immediately hooked. My parents bought my first pony from her. My sister and I were supposed to share her. That didn’t last long. As a kid, I played T-ball, figure skated, took painting and pottery lessons, but there was no comparison. While I liked skating, I hated waking up at 5am for Saturday morning sessions. But I never begrudged early mornings for horse shows. Spending time with horses was the most natural thing in the world for me.

Jacobsen: The Lower Mainland of British Columbia, Canada is an immense opportunity for any young, aspiring equestrian. How did Abbotsford provide the training grounds or the opportunities for growth as an equestrian for you?

Froese: I think I had two huge advantages living where I do. First is that I live half an hour from Thunderbird Showpark. T-bird is beautiful and has been moving steadily onto the international scene. It gives local riders something to aspire to. It allows you to watch international and Olympic riders and competition up close. I live a stone’s throw from Langley – horse country of BC. It offers access to horses, horse trails, show barns, trainers, and shows of various levels and disciplines, so there is something for every equestrian.

Jacobsen: Why did the family move to Bradner Hills Farm?

Froese: My parents came from the prairies. My mother grew up on a farm, where they raised nearly everything they ate. My father is a visionary. Neither of them is afraid of hard work. Their support is why I got to ride, train, travel, compete, and live on a farm. They are the backbone of everything I have done with horses.

Jacobsen: What is the process of working and training with – and loving – a horse from birth to full maturity for show jumping competitions?

Froese: Well, first of all, it is a long one. Horses don’t reach their prime until around 10 years old. A decade of going to the barn every day in hopes of fulfilling a dream. Horses have to be taught everything: to halter, to lead, let them groom you, let you put on a saddle, bear weight, understand a rider’s aids (cues). Some are spooky and have to learn to be brave. Some are hot (high energy) and have to learn to be calm. They need years of conditioning and strength training to be fit enough to compete in upper level jumpers. They are prey animals that have to focus on its rider and its job at a busy horse show. To gallop, not knowing where they are going on course and in a moment, without hesitation, to sight in on a jump, judge it and make the effort for you. It’s amazing what they can learn to do. And, of course, part of that process is making mistakes. Training a young horse requires patience, knowledge, co-ordination, and a good attitude. I think you appreciate them so much more for the process, for realizing everything they do for us. It can be tough; a thousand pound animal is incredibly powerful. Yet sensitive. They are masters of body language and we have to be too. We have to learn to communicate in ways they understand. Each horse has its own personality. This makes each horse a unique challenge and opportunity to build a unique partnership.

Jacobsen: What facilities tend to garner the most positive reputation for competitive show jumping?

Froese: What I like about show jumping is that it is an objective sport. It is about time and not knocking down rails. People will always remember barns that consistently produce winners. But there is more. People also notice progress. Everyone has bad rounds. But you see the same people year after year, show after show, and you can see who can train. You spend a lot of time with the same people at horse shows. You are stabled beside them. You set jumps side by side in the warmup ring. You try their horses for sale. You see how people treat people and how they treat horses. People remember who was a good teacher, a good person, and a good horseman.

Jacobsen: Of the medals, ribbons, and positions earned at show jumping competitions, what ones make you feel most proud, as they were earned?

Froese: I will always remember my first Grand Prix win – the Kubota Cup at Tbird. There were good riders in that class. It felt fabulous to be among them. But I may be even more proud of what I accomplished with Onyx. He had incredible scope (ability to jump high and wide), but he was high strung and needed someone really good to train him. I had to become that person. It wasn’t enough to be a good rider (get on a well schooled horse and pilot well); I had to become a trainer. I had to learn how to reach him, to communicate with him; something I discovered no manual can teach you. He required feel: the ability to read and react with just the right pressure and right timing and right exercise to help him learn. He required me to find incredible horsemen and women who had feel and could teach it. I call him my best teacher. It took years of work, but he turned into a fantastic horse. I won classes, championships, a saddle with him. Not everyone believed in him when I first got him. But he had heart; he was always willing to try. And he always made me try hard. That partnership will always be special.

Jacobsen: What motivated opening In Stride Equestrian in 2013?

Froese: By the time I was 13, I knew I wanted to be a trainer. I don’t know when I decided; it just seemed automatic to me. In 2009, I went to Young Riders of North America with Condor. He was my once-in-a-lifetime horse. The magic unicorn that makes the impossible happen. Horses with that ability are expensive and hard to find. I was thrilled to just be there. Winning bronze was more than I could have dreamed of.  In 2012 Condor died. He was only 12 years old. He had sudden neurological symptoms that caused him to fall and break his neck. No one ever figured out why it happened. I was devastated. I knew I couldn’t replace him; couldn’t compete at that level any time soon. Maybe never. My options were give up or move on. I had spent the previous winter as Jill’s barn manager and done a little bit of teaching under Jill’s mentorship. I got certified in 2013. Opening a business seemed like the next logical step.

Jacobsen: What are the different types of competitions or show types for show jumping?

Froese: First of all, you can divide jumping into hunters, jumpers, and equitation. Hunters is subjectively judged on the horse, its way of going, the quality of its jump. It derives from fox hunting and uses naturally colored obstacles or mimics logs and brush you might jump on a fox hunt. Equitation is subjectively judged on the rider and how well they pilot the horse around the hunter or jumper ring. Jumpers, or show jumping is judged on time and faults, which you get for knocking down rails, going too slow, or refusing to jump a fence. Jumps are colorful and built very light, so they can be knocked down easily. The most common type of jumper class is a jump off. It has a first round, typically of 10-12 jumps, where the goal is to jump clean (occur no faults). There is a time allowed. If you go slower than time allowed, you incur time faults. If you knock down a rail or stop at a jump, you incur jumping faults. If multiple riders finish with the same number of faults, they jump off. In this case, you jump a shorter course judged on faults and time, so fastest round with fewest faults wins. Speed classes are also common, which is one round based on fastest time with fewest faults.

Jacobsen: Which show jumpers or hunters have made the most positive impact on the career in equestrianism for you – either as signifiers of the virtues to aim for or as individuals who have, simply put, impressive professional resumes?

Froese: The people who have had the biggest impact on me have been my family and my coaches. Those are discussed more in other questions. One rider that gave me something to aspire to was Kyle King. He rode Onyx for me for 2 years early on. To this day, I love watching him because of his brilliant use of track. He makes it easy for horses to jump clean. I wanted to ride Onyx as well as he did. Years later, when I felt like my progress with Onyx was stalled, I happened to be at the ring and watch Patrick Snijders on this one horse. I knew that horse wasn’t easy. I was amazed how different that horse looked by the end of the week. Patrick turned out to be the person who could explain to me what Kyle did on Onyx that made him so successful. He put the final pieces into our partnership that enabled me to finally turn Onyx into a success. Patrick is an upbeat guy with a great sense of humor. He proves better than anyone that you can be winner and have a lot of fun at the same time. Lastly is Sandra Verde Zanatta, she is my dressage coach. I dropped in for occasional lessons for years and she was extremely patient and adaptable with whatever horse, whether it was for competitive dressage or just making a jumper a little more rideable. She is like a walking textbook of knowledge, easy to understand. I began training for a dressage show during Covid; it really helped motivate me when there was little else to do. I am really grateful that I now love dressage.

Jacobsen: You have trained with “Canadian Olympian Jill Henselwood, US Olympian Buddy Brown, US Nations Cup rider Susie Hutchinson, and British team rider Kate Perrin.”[3] What were the main lessons or takeaways from Henselwood, Brown, Hutchinson, and Perrin, individually?

Froese: I credit Jill for getting me through Young Riders. I had never jumped 1.50m before and neither had Condor. Talk about a longshot. The thing she said to me more than anything else over the 3 years I spent with her was, “Hey, missy, jump the jump in stride or slightly collected” (I was notorious for picking the long distance – leaving the ground too far away from the jump). That’s where the name In Stride Training came from. Buddy is particularly special to me. He taught me riding theory  – which I desperately needed at the time. He would sit down in front of a computer (this was before we all had phones that videoed rounds) and would watch my rounds; he would pause and point out where my horse’s leg was at an exact moment in the canter stride and where it needed to be. That amount of time was well above and beyond what trainers typically do. Add to that, this was after Condor died and I was at my absolute toughest time with Onyx; training sessions were long, and, frankly, a mess. And he sat there pleasantly through it all. He helped me believe in myself again. Susie Hutch made winning easy. I always tell my students to do their detailed work at home and not overcomplicate it at shows; trust your training. The first thing I remember about Kate that made me sit up and take notice of her was that she set smart. She set courses at home that would do most of the work of schooling your horse for you. I still trot jumps to this day! For simplicit,y I listed on my website a few of my coaches whose resumes have an international success that is easy to convey to people who may not know show jumping well. There have been many more who are just as good, and each deserves their own paragraph about how they have contributed to my riding.

Jacobsen: What seems like the state of the industry in the Lower Mainland now? I’m told ALR and other definitional and bylaw restrictions make running a full facility difficult, as one example. Is there anything the municipal or provincial governments could do to help ease financial pressures on farms and stables?

Froese: Unfortunately, horses are expensive. Boarding facilities rarely make money. Boarding is not considered agriculture and does not qualify you for farm status. People try to buy or breed horses to flip (train for a short time and sell) to achieve farm status. Here’s the problem: horses almost always cost more than you can sell them for. By the time you have paid the purchase price, upkeep, training, show fees, membership fees, you usually lose money in order to gain farm status. Allowing boarding to qualify for farm status would certainly ease some of that pressure.

Jacobsen: How is Canadian equestrianism viewed on the international scene?

Froese: I may not be the best person to answer this question. After Young Riders I was invited to compete in Europe but it was too expensive to go. My entire experience has been in North America. Spruce Meadows has long been a destination for the best riders and Thunderbird has continually been growing and hosting bigger international events. EC (Equestrian Canada) has been working on developing team competitions for junior riders to help prepare them for a future in international sport. I think identifying talent, training and funding are areas that still certainly could be improved.

Jacobsen: Another socio-economic issue impacting the sport mentioned to me: The division, growing, between haves and have-nots in Canada. Apparently, it differs by sport, too. Dressage may be more out of reach for some than the world of jumper and hunter, as an example. Is this the experience and observation for you, too, or is it otherwise?

Froese: Yes, again, horses are expensive. And sadly, prices are going up. Horses are like houses; they cost what people will pay for them. Which does create a tremendous divide between the quality of horse that one can ride. If you have modest funding, you take a chance on a young horse, usually based on its bloodlines, and spend years developing it. Meanwhile, those with more funding find one that is already at, near, or even stepping down to the level they want to compete at. If that horse doesn’t work out, doesn’t get along with the rider, isn’t quite competitive enough, or goes lame, they can replace it. The rich can constantly compete, which the modest spend most of their time training. And of course, there are those that can’t afford to show at all. It’s heart breaking to see young talent squeezed out of the industry. My understanding is that dressage is slightly less expensive, but I may be wrong. The word dressage means training. I went to my first dressage schooling show last year, and the judge wrote on my test paper that I showed correct training. It was really nice to be noticed and rewarded for working correctly. In that way, I feel it is slightly more obtainable than show jumping; although, I have never competed in upper level dressage, so I can’t really compare them.

Jacobsen: How important is the sense and feel of working with a horse? I recall reading Ian Millar speaking to this as something anyone can develop, but I suspect this may be the hardest thing to make a refined sensibility after its basic development happens.

Froese: Absolutely, anyone can develop feel. I think it is a matter of how much feel they will develop, how far they will go. There are riders that you can see immediately have good feel; they’re naturals and possess skills you never had to teach them. Those riders will develop quickly and be extremely competitive – if they are funded. Legends like Ian Millar. But work ethic can overtake talent, especially if the talented don’t work hard. There is another aspect to feel, and that’s character. It’s a willingness to learn, first from your coaches, then from your horses. I have said this many times. Your horse has never read the riding manual. It’s a good starting place, but trainers have to learn to listen to what your horse is communicating to you, even if it seems counterintuitive at times. To learn, you have to be ok with being wrong sometimes. And to be persistent when you’re right. And experience to know the difference. And we have to offer that same consideration to our human athletes. People have different body types; what works for one may not for another. Being humble and adaptable is hard. Talent is nice, but I suspect most coaches will tell you what they really want in a student is one that listens and works hard.

Jacobsen: For the facilities[4], the training is done by Bradner Hill Farms in Abbotsford with 14 stalls, paddock turnout, and “a heated indoor and a large outdoor arena,” while the “indoor ring was built in 2018.” Interestingly, the same company that built barns for Thunderbird built the ones for In Stride Equestrian Training, Spanmaster. Why select them for the construction? What was the design style kept in mind for the family at Bradner Hill Farms for the indoor ring?

Froese: Well, you guessed the answer. When we wanted to build, the first thing I did was talk to tournament manager, Chris Pack, at Tbird. We figured if it was good for Tbird, it was good for us. The idea behind fabric buildings is that they go up quickly and are supposed to cost less. They allow a lot of light in and create a bright, open environment.

Jacobsen: Another notable fact, “Footing was installed by Thunderbird Show Park”; this arose in some early conversations so far. The sharing of information, expertise, and capabilities, between equestrians in the industry. Is this sharing and camaraderie a common element of the Lower Mainland equestrian industry, in personal experience?

Froese: Networking is a crucial part of the industry. One of my students recently commented to me that there seemed to be a large oral tradition in the industry. So much of what trainers, riders, and owners learn is from talking to, watching, and working with people. For people who love horses, a lot of their friends were met, and friendships maintained at the barn and at horse shows. It connects people. Trainers typically get into the sport because they love horses, but really, it’s a people job. Every horse comes with an owner, owner’s family, vet, farrier, physiotherapist, etc. The ability to communicate well and get along with people is an advantage in the industry. Right now, I have a couple of clients that are taught by a different coach; the coach called me to ride the ponies regularly to train it separately from the rider. One because she was too tall the ride the pony (I am 5’1”); the other is an “old horsewomen” who no longer rides. I think these clients have a great advantage because their coaches were willing to work alongside someone else.

Jacobsen: There is an apparent gender split in the industry in Canada. Any hypotheses as to the gender disparities at different levels of the industry, e.g., clients, jumpers, dressage, barn managers, stable owners, etc.

Froese: There are certainly a lot more women in lower level sport than men. Years ago, a trainer (my senior) told me when he was a kid, the other boys made fun of him at school because he rode; I guess it wasn’t macho enough. A couple of years ago a student (my junior) told me none of the other boys at school would come ride with him because they were afraid of horses. I don’t know if these experiences accurately reflect the views of their generation or not, and anything beyond that would be complete guesswork on my part. I will say this. Horses are extremely powerful and extremely sensitive; as a result good riders and trainers also need to be both very tough and very sensitive. Decades ago, the value seemed to be put a more strongly on being brave or tough, likely stemming from jumping’s military roots; the risk of that is that people can become overbearing or cruel (both to horses and humans). There has been a big shift towards respecting sensitivity, keeping people safe, and helping them feel good about themselves. Which is good but also poses a risk: people become wimps. They don’t work as hard; they allow anxiety to control them and trainers can’t push them to due to liability. But people are safer around horses if they are fit and skilled. And horses are safer working for humans if their humans know what they should do and be physically capable of doing it. It’s a fine balance. Tending to one side or the other will affect what types of horses you will be most successful training. Regardless of gender, I think both qualities need to be valued highly.

Jacobsen: Any advice for younger people getting into the industry?

Froese: I can’t stress enough that you need a good coach. A little time with a quality coach will make you much safer and more successful than many hours under poor coaching just because they are cheap, close, or you just can’t imagine anything else. The hard part is you don’t know what you don’t know. How does a beginner judge what is a good coach? Being a talented, successful rider doesn’t automatically mean you are also good at teaching. Running a large barn might mean you’re good or might mean you don’t have much time to invest in each student. There are 3 things I think anyone can look for in a coach to help them get started: 1. Match the student’s learning style with the coach’s teaching style. Some students are visual and like demonstrations; some are auditory and need explanations and dialogue; others are kinesthetic and need exercises that allow them to feel and do. A rider will learn much more quickly if information is presented the way they most easily understand it. 2. Match personality type. A coach could be loud, quiet, high energy, calm, intense, laid back, competitive, etc. A loud, intense coach might be just the thing to motivate a laid back student. They also might give a timid, sensitive student PTSD. An ambitious student will want to be challenged; a weekend warrior will want to have fun, stay safe and be less concerned about results. 3. Watch for progress. There will certainly be ups and downs but overall there should be a trajectory towards the goal. If it stalls out, maybe that coach did its job, taught you what he or she knows, and it’s time to move on.

Jacobsen: Thank you for the opportunity and your time, Joelle.

References

In Stride Equestrian Training. (2022a). About Joelle Froese and In Stride Training. Retrieved from https://www.joellefroese.com/about-joelle-froese-training.

In Stride Equestrian Training. (2022b). Facility Highlights. Retrieved from https://www.joellefroese.com/facility.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Founder, In Stride Equestrian Training.

[2] Individual Publication Date: January 8, 2022: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/froese; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

[3] In Stride Equestrian Training. (2022a). About Joelle Froese and In Stride Training. Retrieved from https://www.joellefroese.com/about-joelle-froese-training.

[4] In Stride Equestrian Training. (2022b). Facility Highlights. Retrieved from https://www.joellefroese.com/facility.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Graham Powell on Issue XI of WIN ONE: Co-Editor, “Phenomenon” (10)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/01/01

Abstract

His Lordship of Roscelines, Graham Powell, earned the “best mark ever given for acting during his” B.A. (Hons.) degree in “Drama and Theatre Studies at Middlesex University in 1990” and the “Best Dissertation Prize” for an M.A. in Human Resource Management from the University of Newcastle-upon-Tyne, England in 1994. Powell is an Honorary Member of STHIQ Society, Former President of sPIqr Society, Vice President of Atlantiq Society, and a member of British MensaIHIQSIngeniumMysteriumHigh Potentials SocietyElateneosMilenijaLogiq, and Epida. He is the Full-Time Co-Editor of WIN ONE (WIN-ON-line Edition) since 2010 or nearly a decade. He represents World Intelligence Network Italia. He is the Public Relations Co-Supervisor, Fellow of the Royal Society for the Encouragement of Arts, Manufactures and Commerce, and a Member of the European Council for High Ability. He discusses: the pattern for the publication; Elizabeth Anne Scott; Mandela; “The Universe as Automaton”; “A Critique of Modal Ontological Arguments”; “Quantum Computing in 2013”; “The Nine Dots Puzzle Extended to nxnx…xn Points”; “The City Sleeps”; “ATEM (Breath)”; “Photos of the moon”; “Individuality and the Ethical Life in Hegel’s Philosophy of Right”; “Part Two: Individuality and the Ethical Life in Hegel’s Philosophy of Right”; and “The Rectangular Spiral Solution for the n1Xn2X…Xnk Points Problem.”

Keywords: Graham Powell, WIN ONE, World Intelligence Network.

Conversation with Graham Powell on Issue XI of WIN ONE: Co-Editor, “Phenomenon” (10)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: With Issue XI, we have the pattern for the publication with 11/12/13 (11 December 2013). Why?

Graham Powell[1],[2]*: As noted previously, the publication date of the magazine traditionally has a numerical sequence, hence 11, 12, 13… a simple sequence this time.

Jacobsen: For the cover page, who is Elizabeth Anne Scott? What was the inspiration for it? Readers can see page 34 for the cover artwork.

Powell: Elizabeth is a member of the WIN. She is from Scotland and likes to paint. I was busy at the time and she volunteered to do something for the magazine, so I gave her the task of designing the front cover. Her pictures arrived near the publication time and were both of a similar theme: Christmas. I didn’t have much time and expanded one picture to cover the whole page, the originals being quite small – as you can see on page 34. Elizabeth had not added any text to indicate the magazine title, as requested, so I had to do it myself. I upset her (and, in retrospect, she was right to be so) because the picture was distorted. I would do things differently now. Sorry again, Elizabeth.

Jacobsen: This issue was one with a particular charm with the ease of submissions. It shows a changing culture and network of professional trust in the conduct of the journal and the submissions to the journal. Paul Edgeworth, Elizabeth Anne Scott, Beatrice Rescazzi, Phil Elauria, Claus Dieter Volko, Therese Waneck, Anja Jaenicke, Marco Ripà, Alan Wing-Lun, and Krystal Volney contributed to Issue XI. Was there change in the sensibility of the development of literary, artistic, and problem-solving community? Why quote Mandela for this issue of WIN ONE?

Powell: Firstly, Mandela. He is a personal favourite and he had just died – as noted in the editorial. I thought he warranted a quotation. Most of the contributors to this edition had become friends by this point, so the ‘feeling’ was, and is, more congenial, you are right. I think my cosmopolitan lifestyle and breadth of interest by 2013 meant that diverse talents were being expressed within the pages. That was satisfying, I must admit. It was also what I had envisaged for the magazine at the outset of my editorship.

Jacobsen: The issue opens with a piece by Claus Dieter Volko entitled “The Universe as Automaton” (2013). Volko deals with the conceptualization of a three dimensionality of space with a fourth dimension of time (Minkowskian space without explicit statement) while in reference to the Einsteinian formulation of a unified space-time as a computer scientist. He further extends into a hypothetical of a five-dimensional object, which he terms, in the formalities of computer science applied here, a “deterministic, finite automaton.” He writes, “If the hypothesis is right that there was initially just one point and the universe expanded with time, this means that the number of states per unit of time is growing with time, as well as the number of transitions.” In short, the hinges between states grow in proportion to the growth of time as the multidimensional “deterministic, finite automaton” progresses through time. He compares this idea to Stephen Wolfram’s (now-more-prominent) “A New Kind of Science” and cellular automata. Any thoughts on this idea? It links disparate fields and concepts in some principled ways and some others not in its loose extrapolations.

Powell: If you will indulge me a moment, Scott, I think firstly of the Ted Talk “The Invisible Woman”  by Nicole Johnson. In it, she notes how she is not listened to, and humorously concludes that she must be invisible. That continued until, according to Johnson, her friend gave her a book on cathedrals, fundamentally, because the immense work that goes into building any cathedral includes the creation of things that nobody will ever see. The details and finery continue to be worked on, as Johnson points out, even when the huge task that has been set the workforce is going to take longer than any of the craftsmen’s lifespan, and to reiterate, will not be seen by other people. But why do they dedicate themselves so assuredly? Well, Johnson says it’s because “He sees”.

In the case of the search for answers to the origins, existence and the extent of the universe, this seems to have a similar status, only the concept of ‘proof’ is the ‘God’, or the ergon of scientific investigation, as we may call it. Humankind will pursue the explanation of the universe and seek the TOE, even if it takes longer than each individual’s lifetime, which, for each scientist must seem to be so, or was so – and in this, think of Einstein, since you mention him. As we seek explanations, Claus gives a basic prognostication of a five state universe, an extension of Minkowskian space, and which was extrapolated upon by Minkowski’s PhD student, the aforementioned Albert Einstein. The concept of the ‘multiverse’ underpins string theory and this,, for many appears to be the closest we have got to a TOE in modern physics. We’ll see where it goes… perhaps, so will ‘He’.

As for my own opinion, I felt in my twenties until recently that the universe we inhabit is expanding, yet will eventually cease that expansion, then contract, reforming a singularity which will repeat the cycle. Now, as Penrose and others suppose as Conformal Cyclic Cosmology, they influence my thoughts as we have evidence of Hawking Points (as they are known) whereby, large Black Holes also shrink and cause singularities pertaining to the formation of universes. Hence, regarding Claus Volko’s article, I think you summarise it well at the end of your question.

Jacobsen: Phil Elauria wrote “A Critique of Modal Ontological Arguments.” He delves into the formalisms of St. Anselm of Canterbury, Mr. Onto. A sort of “my God is bigger than your God” argument with the pivot solely on “P4” or Premise 4 with the evaluative judgement of existence in the world and in the mind as “greater” than in the mind alone. Elauria states, “Personally, I find it difficult that such an argument could be taken seriously. I leave the task of explicitly criticizing or supporting points in Anselm’s argument to those who feel compelled to do so. I’m certainly not one of them.” I leave this task of interpretation to readers here. However, he references Alvin Plantinga, William Lane Craig, and Kurt Gödel and spins on adaptations of the foundational structure of the argument. We should note. Craig views Plantinga as the single greatest living theologian or Christian philosopher. Dana Scott, Christoph Benzmüller, and Bruno Woltzenlogel Paleo extend the formalization notions from Volko more into Anselm’s modernizations for a proposed ‘proof of the theorem’ as recently as 2013. Looking at the purported or asserted proof, what about an evil or bad god? A god with negative qualities rather than positive qualities. People worship those. Invert the valence of the premises, you ‘prove’ an argument for the existence of an evil god, too – hardly satisfying, let alone reassuring. One could use the logical formulation as a logical and moral refutation of Abrahamic formulations of theology with a ‘proof’ for an evil or bad god and, in a sense, Satan/the Devil/Beelzebub as the good guy, the real god, based on having the real qualities of a god as negative qualities inhered in its being (but then opposite becomes logically consistent and true, too, i.e., one comes to A and not A, where only paraconsistent bandits sneaking in the night can save us from the explosion of a deeper – non-structural – logical contradiction). Elauria admits to the equivocatory nature of the formulation of the MOA god with ‘proof’ of property “possibility” because one can fill in the blanks for a god here, not much substance. This differs from asserted properties of god in pop theology, e.g., omnibenevolence, omnipotence, aseity, etc. One would need connective tissue to make possibility co-extensive with other properties or to derive others. Whence mind-independence for the Mr. Onto disciples? Any thoughts on this argument for the existence of a god or the derivation of a god from abstract notions of proof of property possibility?

Powell: Another deep question, Scott – well done! You’re on a roll!

I suppose this harks back to our previous discussion because: this is the God that Johnson wanted her audience to recognise during her Ted Talk, that is, the best of us do good because the benevolent and appreciative God sees all that we do. We should display ‘good’ Christian values and behaviour at all times, particularly because God is omnipresent.

Whether there is a god (or not) for me is not as important as the moral behaviour that we should follow and display. In my experience, especially since about the time Phil wrote this article, when my life was thrown into disarray for a few years (mainly because I transgressed some Christian social doctrines) I seemed to be punished, and, in this sense, I now follow my wife’s belief that some ‘higher powers’ are mapping out a better future for us, which has definitely reinforced the determination to succeed, though we also share the doctrine of maintaining kindness and civility at all times, which has proven to be helpful and inspirational, not only for us, but for those who interact with us as well. If that can actually be taken as the influence of a god, then fine. If not, that is also fine.

As such, I think that it is in our behaviour (and the mode of interaction that we pursue) which is the major force that binds humanity together. The relationship we have with our bodies and minds (and with other people) plus our notions of our own existence (as purported by Heidegger, for example) have all been shown to influence our emotions and our cognitive responses to them.

So, this is my own philosophy, if you will, and by living this way, affirming the positive as much as possible and maintaining, as best I can, an agreeable relationship with self and others, I think (so, let’ say, ‘believe’) that this is the best way to maintain a happy life. I am certainly happy, and I feel that this will continue, despite the ups and downs that will inevitably come along.

Jacobsen: Krystal Volney talks about “Quantum Computing in 2013.” Her talents of comprehension and clarity of expression shine here. She talked about interviewing an expert named Dr. Vinton “Vint” Cerf. I found the statement of the four primary forms of practical quantum computation – one-way quantum computer, Quantum gate array, adiabatic quantum computer or computer based on Quantum annealing, topological quantum computer – interesting because, almost immediately after listing them, she stated the four competing models do not compete. They equal one another in functional power. The ability to process information through the manipulation of the potentials of states of electrons in a Quantum computer makes them unusual compared to classical computers in ways laid out by Krystal. Any thoughts of the technical presentation of the materials here? What was the original inspiration for Krystal’s submission here?

Powell: I remember that Krystal was studying computing at the time and at quite a high level, so I guess that was the inspiration for presenting this for publication.

Krystal was also interested in journalism and was networking to increase her potential for disseminating her work, hence, to a certain extent, her interview with the expert Dr. Vinton Cerf took place.

Krystal lays out the historical background to computing, much of which I recall because in the early days of my career I was a geophysicist, one who used computers, and hence, computing power, pretty much as she states, though in the late seventies, developments included hexadecimal programming and the utilization of multiple functioning chips, ones which did not cease operating when the first operation being dealt with was paused, a second function being taken on to fulfil ‘the job’ (as we referred to it). An early example was the Vax 11/780 computer, which greatly increased the processing time available, and hence increased our work rate considerably as we searched for potential oil fields.

I know the recent advances in quantum computing are akin to the points outlined by Krystal and the way forward is definitely via the fantastic work that is being done within the relevant university departments around the world. Soon, the knowledge and communication age will be underpinned by almost infinite computing power and our lives will have to adjust ever more quickly and appropriately to address it, preferably via creativity, innovation and the increased interactive means made available to humankind.

Jacobsen: Marco Ripà and Pablo Remirez published “The Nine Dots Puzzle Extended to nxnx…xn Points.” You helped with part of the solution or the presentation of the materials. To shorten this one, what was solved, in plain English?

Powell: The Nine Dots Problem is a famous one in which nine dots, arranged in three rows of three dots, must be joined by a minimal number of lines, the drawing implement used also drawing continuously, so without leaving the page, and it must only touch each dot once. It is the origin of the phrase: ‘To think outside the box.’ The human mind perceives the three rows of dots as ‘a box’ (actually, ‘a square’, so 3 squared), a quirk of the gestalt mindset, which organises to create patterns. Another example would be gazing at the stars at night and seeing patterns, ones we categorize as Astrological Signs. Marco didn’t stop at having nine dots, he increased the number as 4 x 4, 5 x 5, etc. and even produced, at a later stage, a beautiful video whereby the multiples of dots went three-dimensional, so truly expressed ‘Thinking Outside the Box’. I talked to Marco about this problem during the 12th Asia-Pacific Conference in Dubai and we talked again when we met at Rome airport near the time this magazine came out. I still have the original paper on my computer.

Marco worked with Pablo Ramirez on the presentation on YouTube and it is self explanatory there. I recommend people view it. Basically, the team worked on making a formula for the lowest number of connecting lines that would connect any number of dots that formed a square from any number, so, for example, ‘5 squared’ as 25 dots). This became extended to resolve the ‘connection problem’, as stated earlier, in three dimensions.

Jacobsen: Therese Waneck in “The City Sleeps” juxtaposes some of the cynicism and superficiality of the city life and then the expectation of a new generation. On the latter image, the new generations amount to a new spring in some fashion. It is, in its own way, a hopefully cynical presentation of life anew and the world that awaits the new. What do you get from this poem?

Powell: I view her poem as I view my own country of origin, England, even now. There is an innocence in the voice of the poem, the father figure seeking to protect and get his family though hard times, this being expressed a little sardonically on the part of the father, and with a fundamental lie to get them through. Lying about the fundamentals seems to be politically expedient these days, part of the strategy for getting what is wanted, so conscionable to those partaking in it. So, in this, Waneck’s poem expresses some of the zeitgeist of 21st century existence.

Jacobsen: Anja Jaenicke wrote “ATEM (Breath).” Something like an ode to lovers as “stars” while a son, rather than a daughter, brought to life and having its first breath with silent meditation of the story to unfold. I suspect the reference to celestial objects references the cosmic significance in such events. What do you get out of this poem?

Powell: Technically, what strikes me initially is the fact that the first and second lines don’t rhyme, nor half-rhyme. All the others are in rhyming couplets. At that time, I wondered if the first line could end in ‘bridge’, for example, but I don’t like to change poetry and there was no time to liaise with Anja about this point. The line ending in ‘begun’ is also written in a way that should use ‘began’ (past simple) so it would be better to change it to ‘On the day life had begun’, – which would also maintain the rhythm. As for the meaning, it seems to be a case of body parts kept preserved, fallen from the heavens, but for which purpose? Well, that seems to be the point being made: it’s not clear. Perhaps that is why the early structure is unclear too.

Jacobsen: Beatrice Rescazzi published some “Photos of the moon” with some commentary about the context for the visibility of the “tortured” surface of the moon. I really like the upper left quadrant photo with the heavy pock marks on the moon. Was there any commentary behind the submission other than that provided below the four photos?

Powell: The photos were published with Beatrice’s only comments for each photo, so no, there was no other text to be added, and that was what she wanted.

Jacobsen: Paul Edgeworth published “Individuality and the Ethical Life in Hegel’s Philosophy of Right” with a focus on Hegel and Hegel’s emphasis on ethical virtue and ethical conduct bound to individuality and a rational society. That’s a tall order. One may be bound to have a coffee from Starbucks labelled “Karl” in half-legible scrawl for a Mrs. Carla Jakkobsdottir returned with such complicated requirements for the Hegelian caffeinated brew. Edgeworth makes the argument for Hegel and the interplay between individualism and statism for a communal ethic, where the communal ethic is rational. To Hegel’s credit, he accrues a series of concrete examples, freedom and the communal ethic, as the interplay for individuals and states. His individualism as the basis for the communalism rests on an axiom of individual volition bound to an assertion of the “world of spirit” as in a “second nature.” Maybe, something like an active, volitional nature deriving from a second world. Although, even more confusing, Hegel blurs the distinction between the will and thought. To think is to have a rationality, to have a rationality amounts to an ethical conduct in potentia as thought and action (and so ethical acts for ethical conduct based on duties) with possible realization in the world, one assumes in potentia from a “world of spirit.” In Hegel’s system, the individual becomes a singular infinite, as the real “I” is pure thinking or thought. Edgeworth proposes this unlimited thought leads to the “Reign of Terror.” The proper thinking delimits itself into an object for study, so as, presumably, to reduce the possibility of a “Reign of Terror.” A self-determining “I” as a proper will (balanced will). There is an admittance of the fundamental reflective and recursive nature of consciousness in the text, which may belie a particular flaw in the pure thought idea as some pure and otherworldly abstract – and rather a derivation and a special type of derivation that – well – derivates indefinitely due to its recursive nature. (In this sense, it may not be “pure” and could function as a basic undermine of the entire philosophical system.) On objectivity, Hegel works to make objective individual proper will unified with the unity between the proper will of the individual second world comprised of the “whole realm of objective freedom and the whole of objective organization” or the Right. The proper I meets the Right when the subjectivity of proper will and the objectivity of the objective realm and organization come together, where a real world exists external to the mind and the mind can abstract it inside of itself. Hegel assumes a freedom of the will in this formulation. A means to will and own oneself, and a foundation for an “ethical consciousness.” An ethical consciousness as grounds for a common will and social contract, and the objective will as “what ought to be” setting the standard for the proper will (individual will) “as it is.” With a disunity between the objective will and the proper individual will, a wrong exists there. What do you think of this first-half presentation of the philosophy of Hegel with the objective will and the subjective will, ethical consciousness, and pure thought, as the basis for communal or individual-statist ethics?

Powell: In short, I agree with the caveats that you have highlighted in your introduction. Furthermore, I think the disjuncture between individual and statist ethics, as outlined by Hegel, in a great part explains why the British approach to the pandemic has gone so disastrously awry, the ‘common sense’ approach and reliance on retaining a sense of ‘individual freedom’, not being respected by the forces of nature in play. The approaches that have worked are either the common imposition of restrictions, that is, one presented as ‘being for the common good’ (like New Zealand’s government stipulated) or has been a governmental approach from leaders who are not questioned as authority figures (as in the United Arab Emirates). As such, the COVID 19 pandemic has been a great leveller in this argument.

Jacobsen: In “Part Two: Individuality and the Ethical Life in Hegel’s Philosophy of Right,” Edgeworth continues in some of the similar vein. For some reason, he dropped the intellectual scaffolding terms from earlier. There’s a double sense of morality. A moral subject, a subjective proper will with ethical consciousness, must conform itself to the universal will and, in so doing, an act and thought conforms to the Right of the “what ought to be” based on the moral subjects “as it is”-ing. Hegel remains clear: social animals must morally act socially to act morally rightly; pure subjectivism is an evil. Through a process of externalization of the individual will, and in a collective of individual wills in conformity with the universal will, and the construction of institutions in a society in the externalization process, the Right as abstract becomes actual through an intersect of the Right, collections of individuals acting with the rightness of and in conformity with the universal will, and the institutions of the society. The institutions of the society represent this internal-made-external and the construction of a rational state. The in potentia of the universal will represented in the actualization of rightly ordered individual wills in the society via its laws and institutions. Citizens acting in a rational society would act ethically substantively as representatives of the ideals of the society where the ideals and actualities of the society represent the universal will: subjective and objective as substance and, in morality, ethically substantive. Not authoritarianism with a lack of choice, a set of choices constrained in such a manner consistent with a rational society (and so rational life), e.g., choice in career. A choice permitted by a framework creating an individual ethical consciousnesses in accordance with the universal will while within the realm of correct moral choices within the Right. Individual, family, state (institutions and laws), become the three points of tension with a rational society permitting each freedom for construction and constraint for consistency/solidity. The state is “the highest expression of objective spirit,” where the “highest duty of an individual [is] to be a member of the state.” With rationality bound to notions of freedom and freedom of the will, Hegel posits an organicism of the state responsive to some of the changes of its constituents. Edgeworth sums this long formulation as a justification for one form of government: constitutional monarchy. The definitive representative of the individuals, the family, and the state in this constitutional monarchy as the monarch of the state, i.e., a representative of the universal will and collective wills of the people in alignment. An intersect of the subjective and objective discourses as a proposal for a society. Something like the monarch as the “Synthesis” to the subjective and objective “Thesis + Antithesis.” Do you think the constitutional monarchy is tenable? Does this form of thinking about ethics hold water to you?

Powell: To continue the idea of a constitutional monarchy, and with reference (again) to my own country of origin, I believe that the monarchy in place is the best way of representing what is best in society there, with its long sense of tradition and its stability of position, though much of its potential (to vary your phrase a little) has been attenuated, and it is largely a token position at the top, with theoretical powers that are not used, nor desired to be used. The modern era has, I am sorry to say, been identified as being full of falsities and misrepresentations, just to give the appearance of validity, and be falsely representative of the true will of those in power, and many of their followers. In that sense, the state has ceased to be ‘the highest expression of objective spirit’ and the majority of people seem to be accepting it. As such, the arguments presented don’t hold water for the long-term good of the majority because the dichotomy between objective truth and falsity has been blurred.

Jacobsen: Marco Ripà produced a conundrum as a short puzzle and then “The Rectangular Spiral Solution for the n1Xn2X…Xnk Points Problem.” Any thoughts on this one? He has been submitting mathematical pieces to In-Sight Publishing, more recently.

Powell: Yes, Marco presented the spiral solution to the points problem within the workings that we discussed earlier, and this works for all the n values. It is a neat little conundrum.

Jacobsen: Thank you for the opportunity and your time, Graham.

Powell: You’re welcome, Scott, and thank you for the inspiration to review and reflect upon the deep issues presented in the magazine.

References

Edgeworth, P. (2013, December 11). Individuality and the Ethical Life in Hegel’s Philosophy of Right. Retrieved from http://winone.iqsociety.org/issues/WIN_ONE_11.pdf.

Edgeworth, P. (2013, December 11). Part Two: Individuality and the Ethical Life in Hegel’s Philosophy of Right Retrieved from http://winone.iqsociety.org/issues/WIN_ONE_11.pdf.

Elauria, P. (2013, December 11). A Critique of Modal Ontological Arguments. Retrieved from http://winone.iqsociety.org/issues/WIN_ONE_11.pdf.

Scott, E.A. (2013, December 11). Artwork for this WIN ONE. Retrieved from http://winone.iqsociety.org/issues/WIN_ONE_11.pdf.

Jaenicke, A. (2013, November 20). ATEM (BREATH). Retrieved from http://winone.iqsociety.org/issues/WIN_ONE_11.pdf.

Rescazzi, B. (2013, December 11). Photos of the moon. Retrieved from http://winone.iqsociety.org/issues/WIN_ONE_11.pdf.

Ripà, M. (2013, December 11). Conundrum designed by Marco Ripà. Retrieved from http://winone.iqsociety.org/issues/WIN_ONE_11.pdf.

Ripà, M. & Remirez, P. (2013, December 11). The Nine Dots Puzzle Extended to nxnx…xn Points. Retrieved from http://winone.iqsociety.org/issues/WIN_ONE_11.pdf.

Ripà, M. (2013, December 11). The Rectangular Spiral Solution for the n1Xn2X…Xnk Points Problem. Retrieved from http://winone.iqsociety.org/issues/WIN_ONE_11.pdf.

Waneck, T. (2013, December 11). The City Sleeps. Retrieved from http://winone.iqsociety.org/issues/WIN_ONE_11.pdf.

Volko, C.D. (2013, December 11). The Universe as Automaton. Retrieved from http://winone.iqsociety.org/issues/WIN_ONE_11.pdf.

Volney, K. (2013, December 11). Quantum Computing. Retrieved from http://winone.iqsociety.org/issues/WIN_ONE_11.pdf.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Co-Editor, “Phenomenon.”

[2] Individual Publication Date: January 1, 2022: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/powell-10; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Free of Charge 12 – Foundation

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/12/22

Abstract

Dr. Herb Silverman is the Founder of the Secular Coalition for America, the Founder of the Secular Humanists of the Lowcountry, and the Founder of the Atheist/Humanist Alliance student group at the College of Charleston. He authored Complex variables (1975), Candidate Without a Prayer: An Autobiography of a Jewish Atheist in the Bible Belt (2012) and An Atheist Stranger in a Strange Religious Land: Selected Writings from the Bible Belt (2017). He co-authored The Fundamentals of Extremism: The Christian Right in America (2003) with Kimberley Blaker and Edward S. Buckner, Complex Variables with Applications (2007) with Saminathan Ponnusamy, and Short Reflections on Secularism (2019), Short Reflections on American Secularism’s History and Philosophy (2020), and Short Reflections on Age and Youth (2020). He discusses: Kurtz’s intention behind such a comprehensive statement of Secular Humanism; Kurtz; free inquiry; the separation of religion and state; critical intelligence; a moral education without supernaturalism; religion and supernaturalism; reason; evolutionary theory; an education broader than simply critical intelligence, moral education, and defining what is and what is not Secular Humanism; and to get right and appear to miss.

Keywords: ethics, Herb Silverman, Humanism, morality, Paul Kurtz, supernaturalism.

Free of Charge 12 – Foundation

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: With the large number of manifestos on offer including the Humanist Manifesto I (1933), Amsterdam Declaration (1952), Humanist Manifesto II (1973), A Secular Humanist Declaration (1980), A Declaration of Interdependence (1988), Humanism: Why, What, and What For, In 882 Words (1996), IHEU Minimum Statement on Humanism (1996), Humanist Manifesto 2000: A Call For A New Planetary Humanism, The Promise of Manifesto 2000, Amsterdam Declaration (2002), Humanist Manifesto III/Humanism and Its Aspirations (2003), Manifeste pour un humanisme contemporain/Manifesto for a contemporary humanism (2012), I find the analysis of each by a distinguished and elder member of the community welcome, and enlightening, especially with the third Amsterdam Declaration coming from Humanists International with input from the global Humanist community. A document representative, insofar as possible within C-19 conditions, of the democratic aspirations of the practices of Secular Humanism. One of the larger documents is A Secular Humanist Declaration (1980). What was Kurtz’s intention behind such a comprehensive statement of Secular Humanism? 

Dr. Herb Silverman[1],[2]: Paul Kurtz’s Secular Humanist Declaration (1980) described why democratic secular humanism has been a powerful force in world culture, and what we can do to fight anti-secularist trends posed by religion. Kurtz explained why the separation of religion and government is essential and why we needed to oppose the shackling of any type of free thought. He supported trust in human reason and compassion, rather than in divine guidance or untested superstitious beliefs. Kurtz promoted following the best science available.

Paul Kurtz’s greatest strengths were his abilities to found and grow organizations, including the current Center for Inquiry (formerly named the Council for Secular Humanism). He will be remembered as perhaps the most significant force in the second half of the 20th century supporting secular humanism and the ability to live a good life without religion.

Jacobsen: Also, as a short aside, what was Kurtz like as a person – behind the curtain so to speak?

Silverman: I first met Paul in the early 1990s at a meeting of the Council for Secular Humanism (CSH), and I became a regional director of CSH. It was the only nontheistic organization I had known about, and its fine magazine Free Inquiry was the only publication I knew that supported living a good and reasoned life without religion. Prometheus Books, another creation of Paul Kurtz, was the only publisher I knew that was devoted to books about Freethought.

I think Paul’s greatest weakness was his less than enthusiastic willingness to play well with others he saw as competitors. Kurtz became upset with me when I joined the board of the American Humanist Association (AHA). Both CSH and AHA seemed to be fine organizations worthy of my support, but I soon learned about their divisive history. Kurtz had been on the board of AHA and was the editor of The Humanist magazine, published by AHA. After Kurtz and the AHA parted ways in 1978, on less than friendly terms, Kurtz founded the Committee for Skeptical Inquiry, the Council for Secular Humanism, and the Center for Inquiry. When I helped found the Secular Coalition for America in 2002, Kurtz wanted no part of it. He tended to view with suspicion any organization he didn’t lead or create. Shortly after Kurtz left CSH, they joined the Secular Coalition for America.

I was pleased when, in 2007, the AHA, at its annual conference, presented Kurtz with its Humanist Lifetime Achievement Award, which I think he richly deserved.

Jacobsen: One of the main emphases of American Secular Humanism has been freedom of speech. In other countries and at the United Nations, this gets labelled as freedom of expression in legal documents and human rights stipulations. The fundamental idea here seems as if the free inquiry, which is the first idea presented in A Secular Humanist Declaration – a document founded well before I was born. Why is free inquiry the first point made in such a document by a pillar of the intellectual history of Secular Humanism?

Silverman: First, Free Inquiry was the magazine that Paul Kurtz started, so you would expect his document to emphasize free inquiry. Commitment to free inquiry means we tolerate diversity of opinion and respect the right of individuals to express unpopular beliefs. Of course, all views should be open to critical scrutiny. The premise is that free inquiry is more likely to lead to truths with a free exchange of ideas. This applies to science, as well as to politics, economics, morality, and religion. Free inquiry also necessitates recognition of civil liberties, which include freedom of speech, freedom of the press, and freedom of and from religion. Neither states nor religions may impose a religious doctrine on people.

Jacobsen: With the Trump Administration over, another poignant point made by Kurtz was the separation of religion and state, what have been some more aggressive moves in various states in the United States of concern and hammering home the points made by Kurtz once more?

Silverman: Currently, one of the most aggressive moves against separation of religion and government is in the state of Texas, which wants to allow a woman who has an abortion or someone who performs an abortion to be charged with assault or homicide, a crime punishable by death in the state of Texas. Other states have passed bills that greatly restrict a woman’s right to an abortion. The Supreme Court is also imposing a set of religious views on the rest of the country, like insisting a fetus is a person from conception. Our courts and our democracy face a crisis of credibility.

The good news is that many Americans are abandoning organized religious institutions. The “nones,” people who describe themselves as atheists, agnostics, or “nothing in particular,” has risen to 29 percent in America. The Make America Great Again crowd appeals to the nostalgia of a 1950s-era White Christian America. Before he ran for president, Donald Trump favored abortion rights. He changed to get the support of White Evangelical Christians, who rely on the politics of grievance and resentment. Rather than trying to expand its base, the Republican Party is passing restrictive voting and voter suppression laws in different states, and looking for ways to allow Republican-controlled state legislatures to throw out the results of fair elections. This attempt to turn the United States into a Christian authoritarian regime is a grave threat to the secular democracy that Kurtz wrote about.

Other similar concerns include adoption and foster care service where taxpayer funding is going to some faith-based institutions that discriminate against same-sex couples. School voucher programs are funneling taxpayer money to private religious schools that can be exempt from civil rights laws protecting minority faiths, atheists, and LGBTQ students. Tax-exempt nonprofit organizations, including churches, are not allowed to endorse candidates. With Donald Trump’s “blessing,” during his administration many churches endorsed candidates with no negative consequences to the churches. Using public funds to support religiously based discrimination violates the Establishment clause of the US Constitution and the civil rights of those who are denied access to government services. To promote separation of religion and government, we need to ensure that government money is made available only to programs and institutions that provide religiously neutral services without discrimination.

Jacobsen: What is critical intelligence? How is this an important part of living an ethically good life via Secular Humanism?

Silverman: Secular humanists are much more than just atheists, those without a belief in any gods. A secular humanist generally has a positive outlook on life, the view that we can do good and make a difference in our one and only life. Secular humanists recognize that ethics was developed as a branch of human knowledge long before religionists created moral systems based on divine authority. Some early developers of ethics include Socrates, Democritus, Epicurus, Erasmus, Hume, Voltaire, and Kant. They felt that ethical judgments are independent of revealed religion, and that we can apply our intelligence, reason, and wisdom to achieve the good life. For secular humanists, ethical conduct should be judged by critical reason, and the goal is to develop autonomous and responsible individuals capable of making their own choices in life based on an understanding of human behavior.

As Bertrand Russell said, “A good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge.” I’ll close with two quotes from Robert Ingersoll, the Great Agnostic: “The hands that help are better far than the lips that pray.” And, “Reason, observation and experience, the Holy Trinity of science, have taught us that happiness is the only good, the time to be happy is now, and the way to be happy is to make others so.”

Jacobsen: What should be the contents of a moral education without supernaturalism?

Silverman: The real question is: What should be the contents of a moral education with supernaturalism? I see no realistic answer. We live in a natural, not a supernatural, world. We can make up the supernatural, and somehow bring morality into it. But that is just a fantasy, and people have a wide variety of supernatural beliefs.

Moral development should be promoted in children and young adults by public schools dealing with these values independent of religion. Children should learn about the history of religious moral practices, but they should not be indoctrinated in a faith before they are mature enough to evaluate the merits for themselves. A moral education makes use of the scientific method, which is the most reliable way of understanding the world. Science and technology have improved the human condition. They have had a positive effect on reducing poverty, suffering, and disease in various parts of the world, in extending longevity, and in making the good life possible for more and more people. And while technology can be good, we should not accept what we see on the Internet without evaluating it critically.

In comparing religious and secular morality, we should ask whether it is right to stone homosexuals and disobedient children to death or whether it’s okay to beat people you own as property. If you don’t think it’s moral to do these things, then your moral principles do not come from holy books.

Jacobsen: Kurtz synonymizes religion and supernaturalism in the point about religious skepticism. How are they the same? Are they different? If so, how so? 

Silverman: Religion and supernaturalism have much in common. Most religious people believe in a supernatural deity. However, not all religions believe in the supernatural. I belong to three different religions: American Ethical Union, with Ethical Culture Societies; Society for Humanistic Judaism, with atheist rabbis; and the UU Humanists. All three religions are nontheistic and active participants in the Secular Coalition for America. I’ve also met people who claim not to be religious, but believe in supernatural things like astrology, psychics, and crystals.

Jacobsen: What is reason, properly defined, in a secular humanist philosophy?

Silverman: Reason, for secular humanists, is the use of the rational methods of inquiry, logic, and evidence to develop knowledge and test truth claims. Since humans are prone to err, future corrections sometime need to be made. There are no dogmas in secular humanism. Though our reasoning isn’t infallible, we think reason and science make major contributions to human knowledge and intelligence. Reason has led to the emancipation of hundreds of millions of people from a blind faith in religion and has contributed to their education and the enrichment of their lives.

Jacobsen: How does evolutionary theory present a robust support for a secular humanist philosophy and ethic compared to religious ethics based on interpretations of holy scriptures or holy books?

Silverman: The theory of evolution is under attack by religious fundamentalists, who would like to see creationism taught in schools. A scientific theory like evolution or gravity is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that is acquired through observation and experimentation. From Darwin on, countless peer-reviewed scientific papers have supported evolution. We wouldn’t have expected scientifically ignorant writers of so-called holy books who lived thousands of years ago to have described the theory of evolution, DNA, or any discovery of modern science, and they didn’t. Evolution is controversial, but the controversy is religious and political, not scientific. Some religions feel threatened by evolution because it contradicts the creation story in Genesis. Even though there is a Flat Earth Society, we don’t teach the flat/round controversary in science class. Creationism should no more be taught as an alternative to the theory of natural selection than “stork theory” should be taught as an alternative to sexual reproduction. Creationism is an alternative to Zeus or Krishna, not Darwin.

As secular humanists, we recognize that we are a highly social and cooperative species. We have evolved to have an innate sense of empathy as a survival mechanism, coupled with thousands of years of experience creating and maintaining complex societies. We have learned what behaviors are best at keeping our species functioning smoothly.

Jacobsen: What might an education broader than simply critical intelligence, moral education, and defining what is and what is not Secular Humanism, to encapsulate Kurtz’s ideas of a “melioristic” form of educational mindset?

Silverman: Meliorism is the belief that the human condition can be improved through concerted effort, and that we have an inherent tendency toward progress. This fits in well with Kurtz’s view on democratic secular humanism, where we look forward with hope rather than backward with despair. We are committed to extending the ideals of reason, freedom, individual and collective opportunity, and democracy throughout the world. The problems we will face in the future, as in the past, will be complex and difficult. Secular humanism places trust in human intelligence rather than in divine guidance. Secular humanists approach the human situation in realistic terms, holding human beings responsible for their own destinies. We believe it is possible to bring about a more humane world based on reason, tolerance, compromise, and negotiations of difference.

Jacobsen: What does this 1980 document seem to get right and appear to miss?

Silverman: I agree with just about everything in the document, possibly with one minor exception: “This declaration defends only that form of secular humanism which is explicitly committed to democracy.” While I certainly favor democracy, I can picture a country with a benevolent dictator who is a secular humanist and supports human rights. Since secular humanism continues to evolve with new information and evidence, an update to the 1980 document should probably address climate change, racism, sexism, and LGBTQ rights. I would also add suggestions on how secular humanists can improve the quality of their personal life, which includes physical activity, a good diet (perhaps vegetarian), getting enough sleep, reducing stress, and having a sense of humor with lots of laughter.

Jacobsen: Thank you for the opportunity and your time, Dr. Silverman. 

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Founder, Secular Coalition for America; Founder, Secular Humanists of the Low Country; Founder, Atheist/Humanist Alliance, College of Charleston.

[2] Individual Publication Date: December 22, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/free-of-charge-12; Full Issue Publication Date: January 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Larae Bakerink on Intelligence Culture: (Former) Elected Chair, American Mensa; (Former) Member, International Board of Directors, Mensa International (6)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/12/15

Abstract

LaRae Bakerink was the Elected Chair of American Mensa and a Member of the Executive Committee of the International Board of Directors of Mensa International. She has been a Member of San Diego Mensa since 2001. Bakerink earned a bachelor’s degree in Finance and an M.B.A. in Management. She lives in San Diego with her husband, Steve. She discusses: Covid time and organization maintenance; SIGs; intellectual ability; a higher general awareness than others; a gender skew; and where you learn more about her.

Keywords: American Mensa, EQ, Executive Committee, intelligence, IQ, Larae Bakerink, Mensa Foundation, Mensa International, San Diego.

Conversation with Larae Bakerink on Intelligence Culture: (Former) Elected Chair, American Mensa; (Former) Member, International Board of Directors, Mensa International (6)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: So, what are your newest experimental projects or initiatives coming out Mensa now, or is it more in Covid times that you want to keep things at maintenance level?

Larae Bakerink[1],[2]: Yes, Covid times has made things very tough. We have a world gathering coming up this year since it is the seventy fifth anniversary of Mensa International. And world gathering is going to be in Houston. So, American Mensa gets to host the world gathering this year. So, not only do we have the international board of directors coming for their meeting then we’re going to have our board of directors there for the meeting plus the big convention for the whole thing. So, it’s going to be a 9-day event in Houston. So, our biggest thing is trying to figure out, “Can we still make it happen? What are the things we need to put in place?” So, we’re really working on trying to get that, but since it’s late August we think we’re going to be in pretty good shape, but more of it on American Mensa’s level. We’re really trying to focus on focused marketing, how we can give our members more satisfaction because there are so many venues out there for them to find social venues for high IQ.

Like I said, there’s Meetup and a bunch of other groups and Facebook, where I can just get my interaction over here instead of having to pay membership to Mensa for it. So, those are the key things, how to keep and satisfy our current members and how to attract new members because since one out of 50 people can qualify; we should have a lot more members if we could get them to join or even know about Mensa. I was so excited when I qualified. I knew that I would qualify, but when I finally submitted everything and joined. I told a cousin of mine. I was so excited. I was in Mensa. And she looks at me, says, “What is that?” You know what that does to your ego, and you do not even know what it is.

Jacobsen: It’s a rarefied thing. It’s not necessarily something everyone will know about or if they do know about it, whether or not they will have a high degree of concern for it.

Bakerink: Yes, or they’ll have a positive response to it.

Jacobsen: Sure.

Bakerink: Because it’s been made fun of for so long. I mean being a high IQ, smart, geek, nerd, whatever you want to call it, for so many years was looked down upon. And now, it’s like that’s the cool thing. I was so excited. I know people have different ideas about this when Big Bang Theory came out, the television show. And every one of those guys is someone I grew up with. Yes, those are the people that I hung out with. Although, I was the girl in the comic book shop with all the guys because I was hanging out with my cousin, my friends, but that coming out. That becoming more mainstream while, yes, they did poke fun at certain things because anything to the extreme is going to be laughable.

But they brought out a lot of the angst and the concerns that can happen during this, being around those kind of people, and what it entails and how hard it can be. So, I think that was like the turning point for us. I really think it was that it was okay. It’s okay to be smart. Yes, you’re going to be a little different. We’re all a little different, but I think that that really kind of made it more acceptable. Even though, there are still going to be people who make fun and all that. Differences are going to cause that. It’s human nature.

Jacobsen: Do you think the Underachiever Special Interest Group is something reflective of a category of those kinds of individuals based on their experience, more or less, licking their wounds and commiserating with one another?

Bakerink: It’s a big joke. It’s like, “I could have done this, and I didn’t.” Some parts of it are serious. I think some of them do commiserate like, “I probably should have gone on and got my Ph.D.” But why? Because my younger sister has her Ph.D. She’s always gone, “Ha, ha! I’m a doctor.” So, I just think the underachievers is: I think we all feel that way, like the Imposter Syndrome. ‘Why are we here? I do not feel like I deserve it.” So, I think that happens a lot.

Jacobsen: There is also a certain egalitarian mild denial social culture that people differ on a lot of traits including intellectual ability, cognitive ability. Do you think that’s a common thing in North America?

Bakerink: I do not think everyone is really aware. I find that people with a higher IQ are more aware of that and tend to feel like they do not meet their own expectations, but I do not feel like it’s something that’s a common awareness. I think people more in general – trying not to be too general, but, in general, they just view things, “Oh, she’s much better at math than I am,” or, “He’s a great handyman. He can figure anything out kind of thing.” I think that’s more how they look at it rather than as intelligence or a form of intelligence, just in general feeling. Those of us in the High IQ societies. We’re the ones who focus more on whether it’s intelligence or not, but the general population they do not look at it that way. They just think, “Well, that person.” They do not even think that person is smarter than I am.

They think that person is better at this particular thing than I am. So, they’re better at working on their car, or they’re better at building a computer, or they’re better at doing math. That kind of thing. I do not even think, just my conversations with friends, because I have a lot of friends who are not in Mensa; they do not even think about it that way. Their conversations are more, “Steve just is really great at that,” if he can fix any car.

Jacobsen: So, based on that, it seems more surface level direct observation rather than “What’s the root variable for those individuals potentially being better in those domains?”

Bakerink: I do not think that. That’s just not in their realm. I do not mean it to be degrading. I do not mean it in a way that they’re not smart enough to think that. I just think that in general; their perception doesn’t go that way. Their perception is more as I see this, “Hey, that was pretty smart. That was cool. I would not have figured that out. Ok, cool. That was nice,” and kind of move on.

Jacobsen: So, maybe, it’s something like having a higher cognitive ability or rare cognitive ability. You have a certain expanded awareness in general about ideas, social surroundings, and culture. And at the same time, there’s also been an amplification of that within the culture of the High IQ societies. So, it’s just that much more.

Bakerink: It’s that much more for us because it’s something we are aware of, because it’s something that we focused on to get into a society. And it’s something we talk about in the society because we’re constantly discussing the testing and how to qualify, and how are you going to do this and then making sure that presentations are exciting and interesting enough. So, they focus on that more. I think it’s just your general awareness of your surroundings and the IQ part’s just not the focus. “How do I accomplish this?” And I do not even think that sometimes people are smarter than others. It’s just that I got to this place in three seconds. It took you ten, but we got to the same place. I just got there faster.

Does that make me smarter, or does it just make me a little quicker? So, I try really hard to look at it from that point of view. I’m not necessarily smarter. I just got to that place a little faster. And to me, that makes me faster on test. That makes me able to do things or to come up with a solution a little faster, but doesn’t make me necessarily smarter. Someone asked me one time, “Well, do you consider yourself a genius?” I’m like, “No.”

Jacobsen: That’s a very rare title.

Bakerink: That was a reporter that had asked me that. “Do you consider yourself a genius?” I’m like, “No.” And he goes, “But you’re in this high IQ society, yes?” What do I consider genius? Someone who actually takes their ability and does something with it. To me, that’s genius. Just having the smarts doesn’t.

Jacobsen: I mean for every person that’s really good in school. There’s a lot of other people who have the same ability level that aren’t motivated at all or they might have a comorbidity that could prevent learning sufficiently at a particular time. Dyslexia, it’s undiagnosed. English is a core course to graduate high school. It could even be a social thing that impacts like a young male on the autism spectrum. If social life is not too well, they do not understand what’s going on. That’s a lack of self-insight. They’re isolated. They drop out sort of thing. These things happen all the time.

Bakerink: Now, I spent three months training a young Mensan who kept losing his job. He would fight with his bosses all the time and say, “No, this is the right answer. I know better than you.” So, I worked with him for three months. He was a friend. I was really trying to help him and just explain to him, “No, you do not tell your boss you’re smarter than he is.” I go, “Number one, do not ever say that.” I go, “You stop and listen, figure out what they’re trying to tell you. And then say, ‘Well, this is how I see it,’ and give them the work and show them where you may be right and do not insist that you’re right.” He’s been in the same job now for five years, so I’m really happy.

Jacobsen: Congratulations, you’re z.

Bakerink: So, like I said it’s all the EQ with the IQ, can make a big difference.

Jacobsen: Now, in some of the demographics, you’re mentioning there were thirty plus thousand men, fifteen plus thousand women. So, it’s about a two to one ratio. So, obvious question, why?

Bakerink: I have my personal opinion that I think women, often, do not think they’re as smart as they are. It could be the way they were raised just general. Like I said, I’ve had women tell me the only reason they joined Mensa was because their husband told them they were stupid and they had to prove otherwise. And they really didn’t think they would qualify. And the other thing too is women are the ones who have the children and stay home. Not so much anymore that is changing quite a bit. So, they’re social. What they’re seeking for social interaction is not the same. So, many times the men are out there looking for a smart woman.

Jacobsen: So, they join Mensa.

Bakerink: M Available, that’s one of the SIGs. That’s the dating one. That’s the one. They’re looking for a significant other.

Jacobsen: So, what areas have we not covered? That’s a wide range.

Bakerink: It always is when you’re talking about Mensa. That’s one of the beauties and the absolute horrors of Mensa. We are the two percent of everything. How do you run an organization and get people excited when they have nothing in common, but their IQ? That’s why we have SIGs. If we didn’t have SIG,s Mensa wouldn’t really be what it is because you’d have fifty thousand people with absolutely nothing in common and nothing to talk about because they do not know who to talk to, but the SIGs provide that for them. And how do you figure out how do you lead? How do you figure out the path for the organization? Like I said, I’ve been in a bunch of different organizations. They have a specific purpose or a goal to get to. Like DARs, Daughters of American Revolution that’s all based on your history. Or, in trade organizations, you’re focusing on whatever your industry is.

Mensa is not that. We’re supposed to seek out and foster intelligence in humanity and that sort of thing, and part of what the foundation does helps us with that goal, but to provide a stimulating atmosphere is another one of our missions. So, that’s kind of what we focus on is the events, and then the SIGs because those are all different things that can provide a stimulating atmosphere to people in varied interests. There are people who take such joy in Mensa. We’ve had people that have been members for fifty years. I’m a life member, and I didn’t join until I was forty. So, I’m over twenty years now, but, yes, it’s crazy. It’s weird, but it brings great joy. There are people who absolutely do not know what they would do with their lives without Mensa. Because we have second generation members in leadership now. Now, our national treasurer, she’s a second generation member. She attended her first event in the womb. So, for some people, it’s what they need in their life. And for others, it’s just a little badge of honor.

Jacobsen: Now, the proper website is, to close, USMENSA.org.

Bakerink: Yes. If you want to see my full go to my website, Bakerink.com has my CV on it.

Jacobsen: Thank you so much. And have a lovely Pfizer field trip.

Bakerink: Yes, thank you very much. Me too. All right. Well, it was very nice to meet you. Thank you for the opportunity.

Jacobsen: Thank you too.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Former Chair, American Mensa; Former Member, International Board of Directors (Executive Committee), Mensa International; Former Ex-Officio Member, Mensa Foundation; Member, San Diego Mensa.

[2] Individual Publication Date: December 15, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/bakerink-6; Full Issue Publication Date: January 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Free of Charge 11 – Interlude to the Freethought Finale

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/12/08

Abstract

Dr. Herb Silverman is the Founder of the Secular Coalition for America, the Founder of the Secular Humanists of the Lowcountry, and the Founder of the Atheist/Humanist Alliance student group at the College of Charleston. He authored Complex variables (1975), Candidate Without a Prayer: An Autobiography of a Jewish Atheist in the Bible Belt (2012) and An Atheist Stranger in a Strange Religious Land: Selected Writings from the Bible Belt (2017). He co-authored The Fundamentals of Extremism: The Christian Right in America (2003) with Kimberley Blaker and Edward S. Buckner, Complex Variables with Applications (2007) with Saminathan Ponnusamy, and Short Reflections on Secularism (2019), Short Reflections on American Secularism’s History and Philosophy (2020), and Short Reflections on Age and Youth (2020). He discusses: theology and Asimov; empathy and reciprocity; creationism and reciprocity; contributing to secular humanist culture; the God of the gaps; private post-secondary religious institutions; and equity.

Keywords: America, ethics, Herb Silverman, Humanism, morality, religious belief, supernaturalism.

Free of Charge 11 – Interlude to the Freethought Finale

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Your orientation on theology is intriguing to me. The stance from the previous session. Where, “if done right,” theology can be seen as the study of religious belief, which differs from standard definitions as the study of God. Other than an outcome of producing atheists with, for example, reading the holy texts. The idea of rational stances as an outcome of consideration of the broad range of the religious milieu, textual and otherwise. I am reminded of Isaac Asimov, “I prefer rationalism to atheism. The question of God and other objects-of-faith are outside reason and play no part in rationalism. Thus, you don’t have to waste your time in either attacking or defending.” It is about a scholasticism in the sense of coming to a rational comprehension of human irrationality, as found in the religions old and new. Are there any other positive outcomes in the study of the world religions, especially in the most sympathetic and objective light? 

Dr. Herb Silverman: As much as I respect Asimov, I disagree somewhat with his saying that objects of faith play no part in rationalism. It depends on what you mean by “rationalism.” To me, it’s about using facts and coming up with a reasonable conclusion based on those facts. For instance, a person could say the following. Fact: My goal in life to be happy. Fact: I can only be happy believing that I will have an eternity of bliss when I die, and therefore, it only makes sense for me to believe I will have an eternity of bliss. This person makes a logical and rational argument to maintain his belief. He will not suffer negative consequences in this life, nor will we be able to convince him that his afterlife belief is wrong.

When Asimov says he prefers rationalism to atheism, I would say atheism for me was a natural outcome of rationalism. I don’t think it is a waste of time to defend atheism when so many people attack it. I like to give thoughtful arguments defending my beliefs or lack thereof, and discuss with theists their beliefs and how they came to them.

In terms of positive outcomes in studying world religions, I think it’s important to learn what other people think, and why. Theists who study world religions might begin to question why  their religion is correct (usually the religion in which they were raised) and all the others are wrong. As well, while studying world religions, we might also see a lot of positives in them (like various versions of the Golden Rule), and a reason why we should treat all humans with respect, even if we think some of their beliefs are nonsense.

Jacobsen: How can empathy and reciprocity be improved in social relations at the individual level?

Silverman: It helps if we try to look at any situation from the other person’s point of view. As members of a highly social and cooperative species, we can recognize that our innate sense of empathy evolved as a survival mechanism. That, along with thousands of years of experience creating and maintaining complex societies, enables us to know what sort of behaviors best keep societies functioning smoothly. I must acknowledge that “tit for tat” is one of the most effective means for survival—treating others the way they treat you. This often encourages others to be as nice to you as they want you to be nice to them.

Jacobsen: To a scrolling creationist making criticisms of reciprocity in human life, as if against principles of selection in nature, so attempting to use straw men of evolutionary thinking to country evolutionary arguments empathy and reciprocity, any response? As I am sure, you must have come across these phenomena before.

Silverman: Many creationists are not interested in what you think because they claim to be so sure that they are right. They only wish to impart their “knowledge” to you. Some of them do not want to wear masks or get vaccines because they believe their god will save them from disease, despite so much contrary evidence. If we can find common ground with creationists on some issues, we might be able to encourage them to hear our point of view.

Jacobsen: What do you consider the most valuable contribution to the secular humanist community in your life?

Silverman: In my life, it was finding out that secular humanists exist and are now out of the closet. I had been a secular humanist most of my life without having heard of the term until people like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson criticized it. So, I knew it must be a good thing. When I ran for governor of South Carolina in 1990 to challenge the provision in the SC Constitution that prohibits atheists from becoming governor, I heard from a number of atheist and secular humanist groups about all the worthwhile things they were doing. I proudly became part of that movement of people who are good without any gods.

Jacobsen: Will the gap ever completely close for God of the gaps arguments to stop?

Silverman: I doubt it. There will always be a “god of the gaps” argument because there will always be gaps in human knowledge. When science solves a problem, new questions often arise from that problem. Darwin’s Origin of Species answered many god of the gaps questions. When gaps are filled, the remaining gaps for God keep getting smaller. We now know that lightning is an electrical buildup and discharge in the atmosphere, and that earthquakes are shifts in the plates of the Earth’s crust. An interesting modern example of complete ignorance came from Bill O’Reilly on Fox News when he said that tidal movement was an unexplained phenomenon, implying that God willed the oceans to move. We have known for centuries that tides are caused by the gravitational interaction between the Earth and its moon, and we can say in advance when it will occur. One of my favorite quotes, long before the phrase “god of the gaps” was used, comes from the physician Hippocrates: “People think that epilepsy is divine simply because they don’t have any idea what causes it. But I believe that someday we will understand what causes epilepsy, and at that moment, we will cease to believe that it’s divine. And so it is with everything in the universe.”

Jacobsen: How are private post-secondary evangelical Christian universities contributing to this culture of Trumpism or a post-Trump administration, and the sense of besiegement against white Christians in America? A personal and collective sense, amongst themselves, of losing the country. When, as a Canadian looking onwards, America is meant, or should be seen as, for every citizen of the nation, so when one group sees themselves as losing, then everyone loses, because of seeing themselves as a group apart from the whole and deindividuating into a mass, and in resentment and hostility, which seems nationally self-destructive in the long-term (if kept up).

Silverman: When Donald Trump used the phrase MAGA (Make America Great Again), he was probably hearkening back to growing up in the 1950s when Blacks “knew their place” and white Christianity was privileged and viewed by many as America’s religion. Even though our godless U.S. Constitution prohibits favoring one religion over another or religion over non-religion, it was true that the majority of citizens at that time were white Christians. Times have changed, and Christian nationalists are upset by changes that have happened to the country.

We know that many religious universities do not teach subjects like evolution, which conflicts with their religious agenda. Even worse, some religious universities have political agendas, including the well-known Liberty University in Lynchburg, Virginia. Its former president, Jerry Falwell Jr., considered it immoral for evangelicals in 2020 not to support President Trump, adding that Trump could do nothing to lose his support. Falwell was later forced to resign the presidency because of a sex scandal. He hadn’t objected previously to Trump’s sex scandals.

Today, minorities are demanding and receiving some of the equal rights they deserve. We certainly are not yet where we should be, but I think we are moving in the right direction despite Trump and his followers. In the 1950s, in my home state of South Carolina, there were separate water fountains for white and black people. And black people were expected to step into the street to let a white person pass on the sidewalk.

Jacobsen: What specific programs and benefits can help poor schools attain greater equity with the rest of the nation, e.g., decent nutritional programs for kids to have energy and to be able to develop strong minds and to have clarity of mental life, etc.? I ask this as a practical example of secular humanist ethics for those who may benefit the most from it.

Silverman: No school needs to be deficient in any way—enough examples of successful schools exist throughout the country. Students and teachers need adequate resources. When state and local governments make having good schools a specific, primary goal, they allocate adequate tax funds, hire enough competent teachers for smaller-size classes, and have needed counselors. Residents of state and local communities choose what kind of schools they will have, by electing candidates who will or won’t support excellent education for all students, regardless of race or economic level. Education is the tide that lifts all boats and addresses most societal problems. 

Jacobsen: Thank you for the opportunity and your time, Dr. Silverman.

Appendix I: Footnotes

 [1] Founder, Secular Coalition for America; Founder, Secular Humanists of the Low Country; Founder, Atheist/Humanist Alliance, College of Charleston.

[2] Individual Publication Date: December 8, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/free-of-charge-11; Full Issue Publication Date: January 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Larae Bakerink on Mensa Demographics and Testing: (Former) Elected Chair, American Mensa; (Former) Member, International Board of Directors, Mensa International (5)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/12/01

Abstract

LaRae Bakerink was the Elected Chair of American Mensa and a Member of the Executive Committee of the International Board of Directors of Mensa International. She has been a Member of San Diego Mensa since 2001. Bakerink earned a bachelor’s degree in Finance and an M.B.A. in Management. She lives in San Diego with her husband, Steve. She discusses: staff; tests for acceptance; the magazine; demographics; younger people; and types of email.

Keywords: American Mensa, EQ, Executive Committee, intelligence, IQ, Larae Bakerink, Mensa Foundation, Mensa International, San Diego.

Conversation with Larae Bakerink on Mensa Demographics and Testing: (Former) Elected Chair, American Mensa; (Former) Member, International Board of Directors, Mensa International (5)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: We covered some of the tests. That’s for psychiatrists and psychologists. We covered the social aspects of history, covered the important aspects around the fact that it’s democratic. And it’s volunteer based.

Larae Bakerink[1],[2]: Yes, we do have a staff at the national office. We actually have paid employees. We have the largest staff of any of the national Mensa’s ,but we’re the largest national Mensa of any of the national Mensa’s, but yes, the direction is given by the board to the staff, and then the staff carries it out under the executive director.

Jacobsen: So, how many staff and executive directors are there?

Bakerink: One executive director, I believe there’s a total of nineteen staff.

Jacobsen: That’s quite hefty.

Bakerink: It is, but when you consider the fact that we have so many members and we have these huge events, we have the world gathering coming up this year, and then we have Mind Games, which is another national event that’s just game playing. Now, you want to be a board game nerd. That’s the place to go. It’s four hundred people. You have forty hours to play thirty games. There’s usually seventy games. They’re submitted by game board companies. The games have to be less than two years old, but they have to be on the market. So, no prototypes which is too bad because I’d love to get my hands on some prototypes, but everybody in a big room. You play the games together. You rate them. You score them, and then the top five winners at the end of the weekend get what’s called the Mensa Select seal.

And that means that they’re allowed to put this golden seal on their box that says it was voted one of the highest for whatever year by Mensa members. And it’s a big competition, the game companies like it because we’re the only non-paid award they can get. All the other awards that game companies get, they can put money up for it. For us, they have to earn it. Our members have to grade them high for them to earn it. So, they really like getting our award. And it’s a blast. It is so much fun because you stay up all night. Because you want to make sure you get your thirty games, but, most of the people who attend, they want to play every single game there because you get to take a couple of them home at the end of the event. So, they want to pick the game that they want to take home.

So, we have that plus all the regional gatherings. We have a huge magazine that’s put out every month. There’s a lot to running our organization and the employees also support the foundation. And the foundation is a whole separate thing, its own separate board, separate company. So, we do have a big staff, but every one of them plays a really important role in helping our local groups with leadership development, making sure that everything’s all up to date plus taking in all the scoring because the proctors do not score any of the tests. The proctors give the tests then pack them up, and they all get sent to the national office. They’re scored there. So, the staff handles a lot that you would not want to volunteer to handle. Plus, our website is huge and database management is a big deal. That’s all stuff that you do not want volunteers doing.

Jacobsen: So, some of these tests that you’re permitting for admission. How do they go? What’s the reasonable limit in terms of the scores 160?

Bakerink: See, the scores are on percentiles. They’re not on IQ. Only a psychiatrist can determine an IQ. Our supervisory psychologist is very adamant about that because we’re not licensed to do that. All the tests can do is give you a percentile, and then a psychologist can interpret it for you because it depends on your age and that sort of thing, depending on the test. So, I honestly do not know how high it can go. I know we’ve got members from, I believe, right now our youngest member’s two and a half years old and our oldest member’s one hundred and three. We just had a 92-year-old guy join for the first time. He found some old military whatever. He was so excited that he could qualify and join. So, it’s really neat to see people get excited about it.

Jacobsen: This magazine, how big is the publication?

Bakerink: I think its 48 pages. I never remember, but it’s full color magazine. You can choose to get it mailed to you or by email. It’s a lot. We have a lot of articles submitted. In fact, I have to finish writing my column today. We have a lot of articles submitted by members. Our biggest one every year, our fiction issue where we have fiction submitted by all the members that gets scored and only certain ones actually make it into the magazine. And that one’s really, really popular. People just love getting that one and seeing what their friends are writing. And I hate writing, that’s the one thing I hate. I’m a math person. Give me numbers. That is the hardest part for me being chair is having to write a monthly column.

Jacobsen: Do you do like a monthly newsletter things like this to?

Bakerink: Our local group does a monthly newsletter. In fact, most local groups do so they have their own private newsletter along with the national magazine. Because that lists their events that are happening right in their local area. And then the local group newsletters, everyone. They have some kind of puzzle. They have some kind of trivia quiz. There’s always some kind of game or some games in them. And these are new ones that members are coming up with every month and submitting to their editor to put in. So, it’s pretty amazing. Just the amount of information that comes out of our members that they want to put out and show to other members.

Jacobsen: What would you say are the main hunks, demographics, of America Mensa?

Bakerink: Member age breakdown: Currently, our membership is 47,778 seven hundred and twenty eight. We are over 30,000 male, about 16,000 female. Our officer breakdown is almost half and half male and female. Our officer age breakdown, our average age, is between 46 and 65 for officers, but average age of a new members right now is 28. Average age of members as a whole 53, average age of our officers is 60.

Jacobsen: There’s a certain building up to an officer position that makes some sense too. Building up reputation, knowing organization more, and then deciding to sign up for a potential democratically elected position.

Bakerink: So, the majority of our membership right now is between 46, like two thirds of our membership right now is 46 years and olde, but all of our incoming members, the average new member age, is 28. So, the age range is actually going down because the newer members joining have been younger.

Jacobsen: What do you think is the reason for an influx of younger people?

Bakerink: I honestly do not know. It’s interesting because we will get a big influx of like kids who just started college and they found out about Mensa. They thought they would help with their college career, but then you get busy. You get married, or you have kids, and that kind of falls off. but then you’re looking for more interaction again as your life settles. And then they come back into the fold. So, it’s really interesting to see the waves and the dynamic of how that works, but we’ve been getting our officers age range down more too because our younger group, especially Gen Y, has become more and more involved in it. They want to have a say in what’s happening. And I’m like, “OK, you want to have a say in what’s happening, put your seat, put your butt in a leadership seat,” and they took me up on it. And I’m really glad they did.

They have just done some amazing stuff. Our Gen Y and Gen X have really started putting efforts into participating in leadership and leadership development where we do leadership development workshops, which can be used outside of Mensa. But it’s to help them learn leadership roles in Mensa. So, I think that that’s something that they like a lot because some of them have actually told me that it has helped them at work. Some of the things they’ve learned in leadership from Mensa. So, I do not know why we may be getting new members in. I know that we get a big influx whenever there’s an article about a 4-year-old that has joined Mensa or a two year old that has joined Mensa because it always makes great news. And then all of a sudden, I will get one hundred emails from parents, “My child’s really smart too.” I’m very happy to hear that. You will need to have them tested.

Jacobsen: Is this next to the conspiracy theory emails you get – the hundreds you get every day?

Bakerink: I mean they’re excited and they want to know that their child is smart, but we do not test anyone under the age of 14. So, if someone’s under that age, they’re going to have to go to their own psychologist or have school testing done, but we always get a big influx of participants and people wanting to get involved once there’s some kind of news article out about a young child joining. So, it’s interesting. Or if there’s a movie star, it’s like every once in a while; something will come out about Gina Davis. And she’ll be asked about Mensa. She’ll go take the test. She’s a hoot. She’s just an amazing person. All the stuff she’s done for women in Hollywood. She’s working with female directors and that kind of stuff. It’s pretty awesome.

But I guess it depends on what’s out in the news and that’s kind of how we’ll get a big influx. We used to joke one of our biggest influxes ever was in, I think, the early 70s from a Reader’s Digest article because Reader’s Digest was the thing. It was the bomb for years and years and years. Everybody had it in their house. And they got a huge influx of applications and people wanting to take the test for Mensa because of that article in Reader’s Digest.

Jacobsen: What was the particular article?

Bakerink: It was someone who was a writer for Reader’s Digest who took the Mensa test and then talked about like their first couple of events that they went to, and that they were excited about it. And since it was a positive article. It really had a great repercussions for us. And even if there’s something that happens in Japan with Mensa or Britain or something, we see ripples from that. People wanting to join or at least asking questions about Mensa.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Former Chair, American Mensa; Former Member, International Board of Directors (Executive Committee), Mensa International; Former Ex-Officio Member, Mensa Foundation; Member, San Diego Mensa.

[2] Individual Publication Date: December 1, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/bakerink-5; Full Issue Publication Date: January 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Larae Bakerink on American Mensa and SIGs: (Former) Elected Chair, American Mensa; (Former) Member, International Board of Directors, Mensa International (4)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/11/22

Abstract

LaRae Bakerink was the Elected Chair of American Mensa and a Member of the Executive Committee of the International Board of Directors of Mensa International. She has been a Member of San Diego Mensa since 2001. Bakerink earned a bachelor’s degree in Finance and an M.B.A. in Management. She lives in San Diego with her husband, Steve. She discusses: exciting options from Mensa; democratic involvement; and the structure of Mensa.

Keywords: American Mensa, Executive Committee, intelligence, IQ, Larae Bakerink, Mensa Foundation, Mensa International, San Diego.

Conversation with Larae Bakerink on American Mensa and SIGs: (Former) Elected Chair, American Mensa; (Former) Member, International Board of Directors, Mensa International (4)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: That’s like a class of individuals and their expertise that I would really love to interview to get. Some of these questions that I have answers to while others remain open questions or only partially answered. Ok, so, there’s also another category of things that happened within Mensa in general, which are the special interest groups. So, for those who qualify for a certain intelligence level or cognitive ability within the general population, they also have specialized interests. Some people are lucky. They find interests like physics or math or art or music. They find a community; and they’ve been involved in those their entire lives. They had no need for a special interest group with regards to Mensa. For others, they are part of Mensa. They made a conscious decision to seek this out. What are some of the more exciting options or prominent options of special interest groups for American Mensa members?

Larae Bakerink: They are all over the place. I mean I can list off some of the ones: Star Trek. There are every kind of lifestyle type, special interest group, married couples, singles, looking, people in polyamory lifestyles, the LGBTQ, we have like the Gay SIG.  We have some generational SIGs. Gen Y, Gen X, Boomers. We have Teen SIG for the teenagers. There’s history. I know the history SIG is a big one. Physics, in fact, it’s really funny. Our new diversity committee chair is a black woman, but she is also the first black woman physicist. And she’s like the head of the physics organization for physicists in the United States. And so, of course, she’s big in the physics thing. We have one called Sharp Women. It’s women who like to knit, knitting needles.

Jacobsen: That’s a great title.

Bakerink: There’s one for travelling. But that just happened to come up. Yes, we have ADHD SIG, anthropology, art lovers, astronomy, beer me, bitcoin, blazingly lightly armed Mensans.

Jacobsen: Is it like a cavalry?

Bakerink: No. There are people who are interested in range shooting and firearms.

Jacobsen: Oh, cool, OK.

Bakerink: And then Burning Man, which is one of my favorite SIGS. And they have their own camp at Burning Man every year. So, we have another called Snowflake Village. One called shack of SIT.

So, what they have for barter is, they have ice water chairs and shade. So, that’s why they call it a shack of SIT. Of course, debate room, diabetes, Disneyland, Dungeons and Dragons, Evangelical Christianity, Friends of Bill W. Gardening SIG, geo caching, global risk reduction, grammar police, that’s a funny one, hacker nest. Who would not expect a hacker nest in Mensa, right?

Of course, we’ve got High IQ Whovians, because we have got to have Doctor Who, home schooling Mensans, Isolated Ms. Those are people who are not in the United States. These are Mensans who are U.S. citizens, but are placed outside of the U.S. LinkedIn Ms, Muscle Weight Training, M Atheists, M Available, Harry Potter Common Room, M Escape, which is four escape rooms. Right now, they’re doing online escape rooms.

Jacobsen: That’s pretty interesting.

Bakerink: Investment club, sci-fi writers, Spanish, sports fans, M Winers – that’s for wine, not for whining. Military history, multi-sport, musical theater, naturists, needle and thread.

Jacobsen: A common sentiment, I’ve heard there’s a couple of things that come up from just that list. Actually, there’s another point that comes from the very start of the interview as well, at least start of the conversation. I mean, if people are looking for a solid organization in the high IQ community, then a good couple rule of thumbs is look for ones that have been established for a long time, which was a trust among the membership. Two, look for ones that are democratic, it’s not just one person making decisions top down sort of a deal. Rather, it’s bottom up, and then it’s top down based on the democratic structure of it.

Bakerink: Our national board is fifteen voting members plus four non-voting members, so it’s a nineteen-member board.

Jacobsen: That’s a lot.

Bakerink: It’s a lot. Most of the local groups, their boards are five people.

Jacobsen: That makes a sort of sense if they’re going to be local and smaller. That does make more sense.

Bakerink: But the national board is there are ten RVC’s, regional vice chairs. Since we have ten regions, each of the vice chairs is elected by their region. Then we have five national officers, chair, first vice chair, second vice chair, treasurer and secretary. And then we have four appointed officers, director of science and education, which is our link to the foundation because the foundation designates someone that they’re going to have fill that spot. And then we have a membership communication and marketing officer, which are appointees and approved by the board. And those are the ones where you want them to have experience in those areas, so they bring that expertise to the board.

Jacobsen: This is all, I think, just fantastic because it provides a buffer against certain things that can go wrong, as have gone wrong in some other societies. For those who want, I think there’s one article entitled “A Short (and Bloody) History of the High I.Q. Societies,” by Darryl Miyaguchi. So, you have these special interest groups. You have a lot more social engagement. Also, a unique aspect with more social engagement in person outside of Covid times compared to pretty much every other high IQ society that I’m aware of. So, there’s a lot of unique qualities that Mensa brings. I’ve heard some commentary critiquing Mensa as “only” a social club. Yet, I do not see anything particularly negative about that because a lot of people who are aiming for these societies are looking for people that they do not have to talk about their scores, that they can just talk to naturally with, be themselves as you were saying earlier.

Bakerink: And that’s funny. We never talk about our scores. I mean, if someone tries to bring up their score, we’re all like, ‘Where do you think you are? We all are at the 98th percentile or higher. So, who cares?”

Jacobsen: It’s been settled. It’s not an issue.

Bakerink: And it’s really funny. I’ll have a lot of people contact me and say this person swears they’re in Mensa and I know they’re not. “Can we check?”, and it’s like, “You have access to the member directory. If you’re a member, you can look for yourself.” But it’s funny to see the people who claim that they’re in Mensa that are not, and then claim that they are in Mensa and then try to trash us in the process. It’s like: If you’re in Mensa, you wouldn’t trash Mensa. Unless, you specifically set out to do that.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Former Chair, American Mensa; Former Member, International Board of Directors (Executive Committee), Mensa International; Former Ex-Officio Member, Mensa Foundation; Member, San Diego Mensa.

[2] Individual Publication Date: November 22, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/bakerink-4; Full Issue Publication Date: January  1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Larae Bakerink on America and Mensa, Mr. and Mrs. Mensa, and Attractions of Mensa: (Former) Elected Chair, American Mensa; (Former) Member, International Board of Directors, Mensa International (3)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/11/15

Abstract

LaRae Bakerink was the Elected Chair of American Mensa and a Member of the Executive Committee of the International Board of Directors of Mensa International. She has been a Member of San Diego Mensa since 2001. Bakerink earned a bachelor’s degree in Finance and an M.B.A. in Management. She lives in San Diego with her husband, Steve. She discusses: American Mensa; Mr. and Mrs. Mensa; main attractions of Mensa; communication gap, EQ, and IQ; and tests for Mensa admission.

Keywords: American Mensa, EQ, Executive Committee, intelligence, IQ, Larae Bakerink, Mensa Foundation, Mensa International, Mr. Mensa, Mrs. Mensa, San Diego.

Conversation with Larae Bakerink on America and Mensa, Mr. and Mrs. Mensa, and Attractions of Mensa: (Former) Elected Chair, American Mensa; (Former) Member, International Board of Directors, Mensa International (3)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: What states in particular are more prominently represented within American Mensa?

Larae Bakerink[1],[2]: The higher population states. So, it’s going to be the whole eastern seaboard, New York all down through there, San Francisco, Los Angeles, San Diego, Dallas, Houston, just the large cities where more people are located. It’s going to be the same for Mensas. I mean one out of every 50 people qualifies for Mensa. Not everybody joins. And a lot of them do not even realize that they qualify. So, it’s just up to us to figure out how to let them know about us.

Jacobsen: You also have a Mr. Mensa and Mrs. Mensa. What is this?

Bakerink: Mr. and Mrs. Mensa was the contest I was talking about earlier. And what they normally do is then they become like a representative for the foundation. They wear their crown and their sash to events and they encourage people to donate. So, it’s like a big thing for a year. They get to wear their crown and sash to the different events. One of the ways that they raise money is like have a picture with Mrs. Mensa, pay five bucks and then the five dollars goes to the foundation. So, it’s more to encourage our members to let them know about the foundation and then also to get donations for it. And it’s a lot of fun for the people who are involved because someone says, “Why are you wearing a crown?” And then they go, “Well, let me tell you why.” And it just gives them an opportunity to talk about the foundation. And the foundation, they give scholarships. I think it’s from December 1st or November 1st.

People who are going to be in college over the next year can submit an essay as to why they feel that they should get a scholarship. And there’s different scholarships for different things, whether you want to go into engineering or whether you’re LGBTQ or whether you’re going to be a teacher or you want to be an English professor; there’s different scholarships for different things. And you do not have to be a member of Mensa to get a scholarship. It’s for everybody. There are specific ones just for members, but there are designated different scholarship. So, the foundation gives out a lot of scholarships every year. And the nice thing is it involves our members too because all of the essays that are submitted are graded by our members.

Each local group will form a scholarship committee and they’ll review and grade the scholarships and then that goes up to the regional to be graded. And then from there they determine who are the winners and then everybody is notified. And they get anywhere from $600, and then just the regular scholarships goes up to $3,000 to $5,000. And then the foundation has other special awards like the Copper Black Award and stuff, which are large grants that can be $20,000, $10,000, depending on what it’s for. In fact, they just started a new grant program for teachers too.

Jacobsen: What seem to be some of the more main attractions to people?

Bakerink: It’s so different for everybody. Some people want to join just so they can say they have the card. It was a self-affirmation. I did a survey years and years ago just of our local, “Why did you join?” And some of the answers were, “Well, my husband told me, I was too stupid. I qualified. He did not.” I mean because it’s not just Mensa itself. It’s the aptitude that they could qualify and that’s what they care about. Some people are just happy getting their magazine, their monthly magazine. They want to do the crossword puzzles or read what’s going on in their local group. Some people want to do international travel. We have a program called SITE. And I can never remember what it stands for. But basically, what it is, it’s an international travel thing. So, say I want to go to South Africa, I contact their site person in South Africa, and I say, “Where the best hostel is?”

And so, they’ll give you information. A lot of times they may even put you up at their house themselves or take you out to dinner because they get excited about having the foreigners come in from everywhere. And we have it in the United States. It’s not quite as active here because people are a little more nervous or litigious. Not quite sure, but, at least, they provide information. So, when you’re going to go visit somewhere and you’re in Mensa, you can contact their site person in that country and they will provide you with information, let you know about tickets for things and help you along. Some of them will pick them up at the airport. It just depends on the situation and where they are. But I think it’s really given a great flavor to some of our membership that want to travel and didn’t have this ability gather all this knowledge before they go on a trip.

So, some people use it for that. One of our taglines for a while was find the people that get your jokes. Just to be around the people that you feel like you can be normal and be yourself and not have to hold back or worry that they’re going to look at you like, “What did you just say?”

Jacobsen: Do you think there is a communication gap in general – what people experience when they’re at Mensa level or above in terms of their cognitive ability?

Bakerink: I think it has a lot to do with their EQ as well as their IQ. If they have a higher EQ, their ability to communicate no matter who they’re speaking to is better. But if they have a low EQ and a high IQ, they do not understand why someone isn’t comprehending what they’re saying. And so, that makes it a lot more difficult and they feel more separate. They feel distanced from that person. And so, this gives them the ability to just sit and talk and be understood and not worry about being looked at that way.

Jacobsen: I think it’s almost a situation where people in the same country in different regions, but they have a different patois. So, they talk past one another, not all the time but, enough of the time to frustrate one another. And they go, “Those darn x,” and the other people go, “Those darn y.”

Bakerink: Exactly. And it’s that way everywhere. But I mean it really is, I think, more noticeable when you have a big variance in the intelligence level. But like I said, EQ mix can really close that gap if the EQ is high. It’s a lot easier to close that gap to understand and speak to the level of your audience. And that’s kind of what I try to train some of the people coming up in leadership is: gauge your audience. Do not say what you want to say, gauge your audience so they hear what you need them to hear.

Jacobsen: Good point. Now, you mentioned the Stanford-Binet earlier and you mentioned the Wechsler (Adult) Intelligence Scale. To clarify, these are proctored mainstream intelligence tests that are designed to measure intelligence and have the most reliable valid statistics on measuring this psychological construct. So, what other tests can the mainstream of intelligence testing appear to have a higher reliability and validity acceptable to the standards of Mensa international?

Bakerink: American Mensa, I believe, two hundred different tests that we will accept for qualification. And a lot of them, I mean some of them are military admission tests depending on what it is the type of test. There’s different tests that schools give. There’s just so many different tests out there that have to be reviewed by our supervisory psychologist to make sure they meet the standards before she will allow them.

Jacobsen: In conversations with her, what are some of the metrics that you’re gathering that she’s taking into account when considering some of these tests?

Bakerink: That you’d have to ask her. I am not a psychologist, psychiatrist. I cannot speak reliably to that. Especially her, she has only been with us for a couple of months now, so we have a new supervisory psychologist. So, I have not had the time to really talk to her about this. So, I can’t answer that well.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Former Chair, American Mensa; Former Member, International Board of Directors (Executive Committee), Mensa International; Former Ex-Officio Member, Mensa Foundation; Member, San Diego Mensa.

[2] Individual Publication Date: November 15, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/bakerink-3; Full Issue Publication Date: January  1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Larae Bakerink on Mensa and Events: (Former) Elected Chair, American Mensa; (Former) Member, International Board of Directors, Mensa International (2)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/11/08

Abstract

LaRae Bakerink was the Elected Chair of American Mensa and a Member of the Executive Committee of the International Board of Directors of Mensa International. She has been a Member of San Diego Mensa since 2001. Bakerink earned a bachelor’s degree in Finance and an M.B.A. in Management. She lives in San Diego with her husband, Steve. She discusses: Mensa International membership and a 2016 presentation; and Mensa presentations.

Keywords: American Mensa, Executive Committee, intelligence, IQ, Lancelot Ware, Larae Bakerink, Mensa Foundation, Mensa International, Roland Berrill, San Diego.

Conversation with Larae Bakerink on Mensa and Events: (Former) Elected Chair, American Mensa; (Former) Member, International Board of Directors, Mensa International (2)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: And just to give people who are reading this an idea of the age difference compared to every other organization under the label of a high IQ group or society organization, it’s old.

LaRae Bakerink[1],[2]: Mensa International is 100. I think we’re over 150,000 now. I have to go back and look at the numbers.

Jacobsen: I mean Triple Nine society has close to 2,000, the Mega Society, maybe, has 26 to 40, or something. It’s not a lot of people, comparatively, and so Mensa International is really tapping into a good rarity and longevity as an organization.

Bakerink: Yes, this year, we’ll be 75 years. It started with Lancelot Ware and Roland Berrill.

Jacobsen: Yes, so, this kind of organization is, as far as I can tell by doing all of the interviews that I’ve done so far and some of the writing, unique in terms of size and longevity and growth rate, just a continual what would appear to be a year-on-year growth. So, how big is American Mensa?

Bakerink: I think we are at 49,000 right now because we only have a renewal once a year. It’s like our numbers go up, up, up, up, up, up until November 31st and then April 1st it goes back down for those who have not renewed. We’ve lost some members over the years because there’s so many different things out there now. There’s Facebook and different social media groups and MeetUp and all that kind of thing that gives people another avenue to find smart people or likeminded people. I know that British Mensa has been losing some members for the same reason. But the newer national Mensas are like the new ones coming in, like Mexico and Peru and India. They’re really starting to grow because Mensa is new there. So, it just depends on the outlook. And I think that we will be able to bring things back around after Covid.

Because one of the things that American Mensa, I think Mensa International in general, is good at is our events. That’s what really gets people excited about it because of the different things we do at our events. I’ve been to a lot of conferences in my life and Mensa conferences are the most unique I’ve ever been to. Because there are no parameters on what’s going to be discussed or what presentations, they’re going to be everything from aardvark to zoo, just the whole range. I think we had this young man who built his own robot. He’s eight or nine years old. Built his own robot, programmed it and then came and gave a presentation on it. Just amazing, amazing, young man. And then we have people talk about how to travel, where to travel, the best ways to travel, just everything you can think of. But it’s all going on at the same time at the same conference.

So, you’re never at a loss for something to go look at. Plus, there’s a huge games room because our people are really into games and puzzles. And pretty vicious about it, sometimes, the tournaments get real, and then some of them just want to sit around and talk. We have a debate room that goes from like Wednesday all the way through Sunday. And every hour there’s a different thing that they’re going to debate on, and the room is always packed. Because it’s like, “I have an opinion on that, I must let you know what it is.” It’s the in-person version of like online stuff. And they talk about everything, controversial stuff to just really benign. And if you want to learn anything, there’s a way to find it out because there are some experts in it or someone who has so much knowledge that you can learn from them.

And then we have the entertainment, we always have great speakers. My favorite, of course, was Wil Wheaton because that was my speaker. In 2016, I was the chair of the annual gathering here in San Diego. We had 2,400 people and we took over an entire hotel complex. It was all Mensas for four and a half days and Wil Wheaton was our keynote speaker. And he was amazing, I sold 900 tickets because the dinner and the keynote is like separate from the whole rest of the conference. But we sold 900 dinners to be able to see him.

Jacobsen: So, in the 2016 presentation, what’s the keynote speech? What was the particular presentation?

Bakerink: What he talked about is what it was like growing up Star Trek. He talked about how the nerds have won because by that time all the new Marvel movies had been coming out and it’s like all this stuff that as I was a kid and the comic books and stuff that I read, it’s like all coming to life and people aren’t making fun of it now. They’re standing in line at the theaters to go see it. So, that’s kind of what he was talking about is like hey guys we won, the nerds one. But then he talked about his depression and how he deals with it, very, very emotional and there were people in the audience half of them were in tears. He was supposed to talk for about 30 minutes, about 50 minutes later he’s finally walking off of stage just to outrageous standing ovation because he spoke at our level and spoke to a lot of the people that felt odd or different or misunderstood because that’s how he felt about himself. So, he was very, very relatable. But we’ve had like Penn Jillette, we’ve had I can’t remember the guy from Mythbusters.

Jacobsen: Is it the guy with the…

Bakerink: No, not Jamie, not the guy with the moustache, the other guy. But I know I just completely lost his name. He was our keynote one year. In Florida it was Penn Jillette. We’ve had astronauts, we’ve had Dr. Demento. We’ve had over the years some really wild keynote speakers. And it gets people excited and it’s something that we can do for our members as an organization. And it’s something we provide at pretty low cost compared to anybody else. I know all my business type conferences were super, super expensive. But the annual gathering cost’s about a quarter of it and it includes a lot of the meals. So, people are just hanging out and having a great time. And that’s one of the things that really, really gets our members excited is some of the events we put on. But it’s not just our annual one.

Each of the local groups, we have 128 local groups in 10 regions in the United States. And there’s probably 30 of what we call regional gatherings a year and it may be one local group or maybe a couple of the local groups get together and they put on a mini conference. And these are all throughout the year. So, you could travel from what we call RGs because we have all these acronyms, RGs, AGs, everything. But you can travel from RG to RG all year long and visit with Mensas all across the United States. Now there’s always something going on; there are lunches. With Covid, we’ve been doing Zoom meetings like crazy. Zoom presentation speakers just to keep everybody involved. Our groups have been doing Zoom movie nights and puzzle evenings and cocktail hours and wine tastings to where they’ll all order the same wine, and then they’ll get together and taste on Zoom and compare if they’re there together.

So, they’ve gotten really creative with it. And it’s nice because one of the benefits, I think, that’s come out of this whole covid thing is because of Zoom and that availability. A lot of our members that would not go to something in person. Now, they’re hitting New York and Florida and Indianapolis and attending events there all online. But they’re keeping themselves interested and involved.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Former Chair, American Mensa; Former Member, International Board of Directors (Executive Committee), Mensa International; Former Ex-Officio Member, Mensa Foundation; Member, San Diego Mensa.

[2] Individual Publication Date: November 8, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/bakerink-2; Full Issue Publication Date: January  1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Uwe Michael Neumann on Germany Looking Forward: Member, CIVIQ High IQ Society (7)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/11/01

Abstract

Uwe Michael Neumann developed a love of photography when he got his first camera, a Polaroid, at the age of eight years old. From 1982 to 1988, Neumann diverted from photography, studying law at Cologne State University. But his love of photography, driven by curiosity and the desire to see new things and discover and show their beauty, always called him back. He conducted his first photo tour in Provence, France in 1992. In 1998 he visited New York where he further developed his photographic style; experimenting with verticals and keystone/perspectives. Launching into the field of international cooperation he combined his daily work with his photography in Albania, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Estonia, Georgia, Finland, Macedonia, Moldova, Montenegro, Norway, Poland, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Sweden and Ukraine. In November 2014, Neumann attended the wedding of a daughter of the Sultan of Foumban, Princess Janina, in Foumban, north-west of Cameroon. There he met and became friends with the famous French photographer and producer, Alain Denis who inspired him to become a professional photographer, instructing him in portrait and landscape photography. After his life-changing visit to Cameroon in 2014 Neumann returned there in February 2015 taking photographs of Central Africa’s unique nature and everyday life, which differed greatly from Europe, and even tourist destinations in Africa like Kenya and the Republic of South Africa. During his stay in Central Africa, he lived in Yaoundé, Cameroon and travelled frequently to Equatorial Guinea, the Central African Republic, Gabon, Chad and Congo Brazzaville, among the poorest countries in the world. He also visited and photographed Algeria, Kinshasa (Democratic Republic of Congo), Benin, Kenya, Egypt, Mauretania and the Republic of South Africa. Neumann focused on often-overlooked treasures in nature, the environment, and beauty in places seemingly dominated by poverty. In October 2017, Neumann returned to Berlin and worked on over 90,000 photos from Africa, launching his first exhibition in May in ‘Animus Kunstgalerie’, Berlin. In October 2018 his exhibition ‘Inner Africa’ in GH 36 gallery in Berlin was focused on Central Africa displaying not only a huge variety of photographs, but also traditional masks from different regions. In 2019 and 2020, other exhibitions at Bülow90, Berlin and Nils Hanke, Berlin followed. In Ghent, Belgium, he was a speaker at the European Mensa Meeting 2019 on Africa and presented some of his works.  He was also invited to present his works in the online exhibition e-mERGING a r t i S T S. and again at GH36 in the exhibition No Time. One of his photos was on the title page of the Norwegian magazine Dyade in 2019. His photos have also been featured several times in the online Magazine Foto Minimal & Art. In December 2021 his works were part of an exhibition at Basel Art Center in Basel, Switzerland. He discusses: Germans, the French, the English, the First World War, Europe, Bismarck, the Central African Republic, and Russia.

Keywords: Bismarck, Central African Republic, English, Europe, First World War, French, Germany, Russia, the future, Uwe Michael Neumann.

Conversation with Uwe Michael Neumann on Germany Looking Forward: Member, CIVIQ High IQ Society (7)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: So, if Germans are not looking forward as much as they were in the 60s when you were coming up or were in the wave of that as a generation, it’s a cohort. How are Germans looking at geostrategic and raw material issues now? Because in turn, these are regional geopolitical issues as well.

Uwe Michael Neumann[1],[2]*: I think maybe this arrogant, but I think most people don’t understand and don’t see the point at all, geostrategic. I mean, Germans, let’s say, we lack experience with the outside world in a way. Of course, we are travelling a lot, but I suppose or what I think is that the French and the English know more about the world and they understand it better because they have conquered the world. So, there is a different perspective and we were always confined to our middle European spot. And you can see that sometimes historians talk about, what would have happened if this or that battle in the the World Wars would have gone out another way and would have ended in another way. I say that it’s bullshit because, of course, it ended that way, but even if there was never a point because the geostrategic situation was to Germany’s disadvantage.

But people don’t understand that. They’ve seen all the detail. The problem is that I think, yes, even today, people don’t understand the connection. They have just a simple way of explaining things. That is, everything is getting worse, especially in Africa. There are the big corporations that are exploiting the world and making themselves richer and richer. And we cannot do anything about that and we are a small country. So, that’s basically, I think many people think like that. It’s a little bit simplified. And there is not this, let’s say this connected view of things that belong together.

We’re not a global power. We are not capable of ruling the world for sure. But we are also not the smallest country on Earth, so we have an impact. So, we can do something. But, the problem and I would say the geostrategic thinking is weak. There were only some figures like Bismarck in Germany. He was a genius and understood it. And I think it would be important for people to understand how things work together and let’s say, on migration. We don’t have a real discussion about migration. Just some people say that you have to do it like this. But it’s not discussed. The government decides what to do. And when you criticize that, yes, sometimes you regard it as rightwing, but it’s not always good.

What I want to say is that it would be helpful if more people will understand the situation outside Europe or even outside Germany. Many Germans never have been to Eastern Europe, to countries like Albania or Romania or Montenegro or so. And there are people who work for 400 euros a month or much less. So, Germans don’t understand what’s going on there. They know that people are poorer, but they don’t understand how things work together. And I think it would be helpful if people would understand more about the reality in Europe and also in our neighboring continent, basically Africa, because we are interconnected, of course. So, people are afraid of migration. But on the other side, they think it’s because poor people are coming to us, but it’s not the poor people, if you are close to starvation, you don’t travel 5000 kilometers.

The poor people cannot afford to go to Europe. They stay in Africa. I’ve seen that, I’ve seen camps of people from Central African Republic who are moving to the airport at Bangui in Central African Republic, the capital, and they were fleeing from other parts of the country because there’s a civil war. These people cannot go to Europe. And these are things I think the media does not portray correctly. And it’s always about catastrophe. But what is actually going on there? Also in Africa people in general are living better than ever.  And this leads also to the thing about their geostrategic thinking and so on. Knowledge, it doesn’t exist and people don’t think about raw materials like important things about interest. Of course, the leaders, they will know about that. But I think in the general population, the majority they don’t understand that.

Also like if we look at Russia, people don’t understand that Russia is basically a country with problems because Russia is immensely big, but their population lives mainly on the south western brink of Russia. So, that makes it also difficult to rule the country and so to govern the country. But people just see this big landmass, they don’t see the details and they don’t see the strategic implications behind that. So, my idea and what I like to do is to talk about reality basically, and to understand, to help people understand more of the interconnections between raw materials, population and so on. Developments, yes, it’s maybe a little bit vague, but maybe you get the point, and that is my idea to bring reality forward to explain to people.

Jacobsen: It’s all very interesting. It’s such a wide range of things from nature photography to law to mathematics to geostrategic thinking about raw materials. It’s a very wide range of interests for you.

Neumann: Yes, it is.

Jacobsen: I just want to thank you for your time today. It’s been lovely.

Neumann: Okay, yes, thank you. Actually, I love to talk about these things. Thank you for listening to me. And yes, I really enjoy that and to exchange about that.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Member, CIVIQ High IQ Society.

[2] Individual Publication Date: November 1, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/neumann-7; Full Issue Publication Date: January 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Uwe Michael Neumann on Germany and Science, and Religion: Member, CIVIQ High IQ Society (6)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/10/22

Abstract

Uwe Michael Neumann developed a love of photography when he got his first camera, a Polaroid, at the age of eight years old. From 1982 to 1988, Neumann diverted from photography, studying law at Cologne State University. But his love of photography, driven by curiosity and the desire to see new things and discover and show their beauty, always called him back. He conducted his first photo tour in Provence, France in 1992. In 1998 he visited New York where he further developed his photographic style; experimenting with verticals and keystone/perspectives. Launching into the field of international cooperation he combined his daily work with his photography in Albania, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Estonia, Georgia, Finland, Macedonia, Moldova, Montenegro, Norway, Poland, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Sweden and Ukraine. In November 2014, Neumann attended the wedding of a daughter of the Sultan of Foumban, Princess Janina, in Foumban, north-west of Cameroon. There he met and became friends with the famous French photographer and producer, Alain Denis who inspired him to become a professional photographer, instructing him in portrait and landscape photography. After his life-changing visit to Cameroon in 2014 Neumann returned there in February 2015 taking photographs of Central Africa’s unique nature and everyday life, which differed greatly from Europe, and even tourist destinations in Africa like Kenya and the Republic of South Africa. During his stay in Central Africa, he lived in Yaoundé, Cameroon and travelled frequently to Equatorial Guinea, the Central African Republic, Gabon, Chad and Congo Brazzaville, among the poorest countries in the world. He also visited and photographed Algeria, Kinshasa (Democratic Republic of Congo), Benin, Kenya, Egypt, Mauretania and the Republic of South Africa. Neumann focused on often-overlooked treasures in nature, the environment, and beauty in places seemingly dominated by poverty. In October 2017, Neumann returned to Berlin and worked on over 90,000 photos from Africa, launching his first exhibition in May in ‘Animus Kunstgalerie’, Berlin. In October 2018 his exhibition ‘Inner Africa’ in GH 36 gallery in Berlin was focused on Central Africa displaying not only a huge variety of photographs, but also traditional masks from different regions. In 2019 and 2020, other exhibitions at Bülow90, Berlin and Nils Hanke, Berlin followed. In Ghent, Belgium, he was a speaker at the European Mensa Meeting 2019 on Africa and presented some of his works.  He was also invited to present his works in the online exhibition e-mERGING a r t i S T S. and again at GH36 in the exhibition No Time. One of his photos was on the title page of the Norwegian magazine Dyade in 2019. His photos have also been featured several times in the online Magazine Foto Minimal & Art. In December 2021 his works were part of an exhibition at Basel Art Center in Basel, Switzerland. He discusses: Germany and the state of science, and religion there; and unexplored areas.

Keywords: Germany, IQ, religion, science, Uwe Michael Neumann.

Conversation with Uwe Michael Neumann on Germany and Science, and Religion: Member, CIVIQ High IQ Society (6)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: What do you think is the current stance within Germany about science, about faith? In other words, the general public perception of either. How does this impact individual lives? I mean, for instance, if we look at the United Kingdom, Canada, the United States, you can see differences in terms of how the countries adhere to standard scientific stances. Also, you can see the contrasts in the degrees to which in the United Kingdom, individuals, adhere to more of a secular perspective. United States individuals adhere to more to a religious perspective. Canada’s sort of a grey middle ground between them. Although, I have it on good authority; Canadians are good zoo specimens for this kind of stuff, too. So, how does Germany, generally, use some of these things in general?

Uwe Michael Neumann[1],[2]*: I think Germany is not very religious, let’s say. The percentage of people who believe and practice religion is less, let’s say the religions are basically dying out, especially the Protestants; they are going down. And the problem is also that even religious people, they don’t believe in it anymore. They are trying to sell it like religion, especially the Protestants, to me they are more like a self-help group. But it’s not really about metaphysics and so on, because they don’t believe it themselves anymore. But it’s one thing, I would say. So, regarding science, let’s say a vaccination, there is a group, at least. They are very loud and they criticize or they don’t believe that vaccinations would work. So, they criticize science. They say, “It’s all financed. It’s all Bill Gates making profit off it. And that’s all big pharma making lots of money.”

And so, it’s very stereotyped. But this would go out for modern techniques. And that’s an interesting thing because Germany was a very poor country until the Industrial Revolution. We were always poorer than France, and we always had less, our population was always smaller than France because they have better climate for agriculture etc. And the Industrial Revolution brought Germany so much forward. And we owe science and technique and industrial development so much. But still people in Germany are very romantic about nature. They think nature’s paradise and industry is bad and can make us bad and everything is bad. I think that’s a very broad movement and we have this Green Party. I don’t know how familiar you are with the German or the European landscape. But it’s a green movement, a green party that started in end of the seventies.

Many of them were left wing before then they moved to green. And they are against industry, Big Pharma very often. They try to preserve nature, which, of course, is also a good thing. But they are sometimes dogmatic. We also have some kind of natural healers that are officially allowed to practice and they have also an official title. We call them Heilpraktiker. It means practitioner of healing. And these people promise you to avoid any pain and to treat you with natural healing methods. And the idea behind this is that natural healing is always good and it doesn’t hurt. And of course, people are afraid of that.

And so, they like the idea of natural healing. So, that is very popular in Germany. I think, maybe, that’s particular in this scale, on this level. Maybe, in other countries, I think people are less influenced by that. And also, if you look at nuclear science and nuclear power plants in France, they have a lot of them. I think they are building new ones and many countries are building new ones. But in Germany, we have abolished them because people are afraid of nuclear power. Which is understandable, but they tend to forget the other dangers of other systems I mean, it’s very romantic thinking. And remember there was a period of time till the 60s when Germany was very positive about innovation, about developing and growth, economic growth and so on. And now, it’s the opposite. I mean, we don’t have any big player in the computer industry. It’s just SAP.

But there are no computers just being built in Germany. There are no smartphones being built. I think Apple, they have some parts from Germany, but there is no German iPhone, German Nokia, and so on. Because people are not open to this kind of thing anymore. And it’s more like the good of the times before the Industrial Revolution are being regarded as the good old times, and then the air was clean and water was pure, and so on. And then the industrial revolution came and coal and all that. So, that is seen very negative now. So, I think that is very intense in Germany. That’s the view. Yes, so, I would say romantic. It’s backward. We don’t have a plan. Our government does not make plans for Germany 2050 or something. At least, at the moment, because I think Germans don’t think that we will survive the next ten years or so because of climate change and all that will kill us and overpopulation, and so on.

And that’s also a myth because there is no overpopulation, especially not in Africa. I’m giving speech talks about Africa, and what I can say is that Africa’s apart from some points. It’s not as densely populated as Europe. And we cannot talk about overpopulation in general, but OK, that has nothing to do with Germany. But there’s this very romantic backward thinking at the moment. I don’t like that because I grew up in the sixties when we were looking forward and everything was going up. And now we are lacking momentum, I would say. But people like to keep it, and they don’t want change at the moment. So, maybe, that gave somehow an impression.

Jacobsen: Are there any areas that we haven’t explored yet that you want to discuss?

Neumann: Maybe, yes. And what my personal interest is, I’d like to see also the real strategic connections between politics and raw materials and production methods and so on. And that’s also what I’m talking about in my speeches, I think that is also something that people don’t understand, especially not in Germany. And let’s say, when I look at the map and I always wonder, why they went into World War One? You only just have to look at the map. You see that Germany is a country with a small coastline, and we are not a maritime power. And we can be cut off easily from our supply lines. So, it was a complete loss to get into this war.

And then there are many people that I like to talk about I’m trying to see reality and to draw conclusions, which can, maybe, help people understand the world better. And I’ve learned at least by fighting my depressions to see things more balanced. And if I could help to give people more information about reality, that’s what I like to do. It will be great. Also, I think it would help people to understand many things and to calm down a little bit also because I think we have a certain hysteria here in many parts. Let’s say, it’s about Africa and migration and so on. And I think you have to have a more rational approach in this. In this field, it would be good to be more rational.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Member, CIVIQ High IQ Society.

[2] Individual Publication Date: October 22, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/neumann-6; Full Issue Publication Date: January 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Uwe Michael Neumann on General Philosophy and Unusual Experiences: Member, CIVIQ High IQ Society (5)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/10/15

Abstract

Uwe Michael Neumann developed a love of photography when he got his first camera, a Polaroid, at the age of eight years old. From 1982 to 1988, Neumann diverted from photography, studying law at Cologne State University. But his love of photography, driven by curiosity and the desire to see new things and discover and show their beauty, always called him back. He conducted his first photo tour in Provence, France in 1992. In 1998 he visited New York where he further developed his photographic style; experimenting with verticals and keystone/perspectives. Launching into the field of international cooperation he combined his daily work with his photography in Albania, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Estonia, Georgia, Finland, Macedonia, Moldova, Montenegro, Norway, Poland, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Sweden and Ukraine. In November 2014, Neumann attended the wedding of a daughter of the Sultan of Foumban, Princess Janina, in Foumban, north-west of Cameroon. There he met and became friends with the famous French photographer and producer, Alain Denis who inspired him to become a professional photographer, instructing him in portrait and landscape photography. After his life-changing visit to Cameroon in 2014 Neumann returned there in February 2015 taking photographs of Central Africa’s unique nature and everyday life, which differed greatly from Europe, and even tourist destinations in Africa like Kenya and the Republic of South Africa. During his stay in Central Africa, he lived in Yaoundé, Cameroon and travelled frequently to Equatorial Guinea, the Central African Republic, Gabon, Chad and Congo Brazzaville, among the poorest countries in the world. He also visited and photographed Algeria, Kinshasa (Democratic Republic of Congo), Benin, Kenya, Egypt, Mauretania and the Republic of South Africa. Neumann focused on often-overlooked treasures in nature, the environment, and beauty in places seemingly dominated by poverty. In October 2017, Neumann returned to Berlin and worked on over 90,000 photos from Africa, launching his first exhibition in May in ‘Animus Kunstgalerie’, Berlin. In October 2018 his exhibition ‘Inner Africa’ in GH 36 gallery in Berlin was focused on Central Africa displaying not only a huge variety of photographs, but also traditional masks from different regions. In 2019 and 2020, other exhibitions at Bülow90, Berlin and Nils Hanke, Berlin followed. In Ghent, Belgium, he was a speaker at the European Mensa Meeting 2019 on Africa and presented some of his works.  He was also invited to present his works in the online exhibition e-mERGING a r t i S T S. and again at GH36 in the exhibition No Time. One of his photos was on the title page of the Norwegian magazine Dyade in 2019. His photos have also been featured several times in the online Magazine Foto Minimal & Art. In December 2021 his works were part of an exhibition at Basel Art Center in Basel, Switzerland. He discusses: general philosophy and unusual experiences.

Keywords: IQ, Peter Fenwick, philosophy, Rupert Sheldrake, Uwe Michael Neumann.

Conversation with Uwe Michael Neumann on General Philosophy and Unusual Experiences: Member, CIVIQ High IQ Society (5)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: So, we’ve talked about early life morbidities, co-morbidities, intelligence, some professional life, and also some of the philosophy behind the photography. Another aspect that I like to typically dive into with some of the individuals in this particular small subtheme on higher IQ people of this series in the journal is the ideas individuals have developed over time. Some people who I interview are of a younger age and others are of a more advanced age. So, there’s a wide range of amount of experience and time and reading and intelligence to think about a wide range of things not only about their own life, but about human affairs generally insofar as philosophy is concerned. So, some other questions that I might have would be around those more abstract notions: Do you have any thoughts on general philosophy? More reliable at this moment is to come to an ontological stance about the world or even some metaphysical or theological notions about how the world is. What are some of your thoughts there? And this is an open forum. So, it’s not going to be restricted in any way.

Uwe Michael Neumann[1],[2]*: Yes. Actually, I’m thinking a lot about that. I think I have a very particular view because what I see is that many IQ people, high IQ people are very much into science. I’m not saying that science is bullshit and so on. But sometimes I think that’s like religion. I mean, science is good for many things, but I think that science cannot explain everything. And I have had, how to say, experiences that are very strange and which make me think about metaphysical things like only in my life; I’m almost 60 now. But I never had any accident. But I once had almost an accident when a car was coming behind me and I was crossing a zebra crossing. And seconds after I crossed the zebra crossing, the car was coming at very high speed and stopping, braking. And the thing is that this was one time in my life so far.

And one other thing happened one time in my life is that I had an inner voice that told me, look to the left. I was walking on a busy street on the pavement. There was one street leading to the busy street, a one-way street. And I was crossing this one-way street. I was looking to the right because the cars could officially only come from the right, but to my surprise, I heard a voice saying to me, “Look to the left.” And I said to myself, “What, am I crazy now”? since it was one way street.  And the voice said again, “Look to the left.” I thought now. Then it said it again, “Look to the left,” and I looked to the left, and there was nothing. And I went on, I crossed the zebra crossing and seconds afterwards I heard brakes screech. I turned myself. I saw a car that just stopped there. It had entered the one way street from the wrong side.

And I was really like this. And those things, these two things only happened so far once in my life and they happened together. So, that made me think about it. That was one experience, and another was when my grandmother died. I was standing at her bed. She was lying in her bed. I was standing there for one hour and then said, “Goodbye.” And then I went to bed at some point. And in the night I woke up, we were living on the second floor. I woke up because there was some knock on the door. And I woke up. It was also very strange. Maybe it wasn’t anything extraordinary, but when you’re in that situation, you think, “What is that?” And so, I started reading about some near-death experiences. Peter Fenwick and also Rupert Sheldrake, I find very interesting. So, I think science is good. It’s developing. But it cannot explain everything at the moment.

And I think it will never be able to explain everything because we are not able to understand everything. Also, reasoning is not always good. When you are very intelligent, you tend to be very rational and to think about it. But actually, in human interactions, people don’t act rational all the time. Otherwise, nobody would drive a car drunk also at high speeds, because that’s not rational. But people do it constantly and also I do it, not drunk, but I drive too fast sometimes. So, I mean, you cannot always act rational. And I think that is also disadvantageous because you tend to act rationally and to try to convince people of rational things, to do it rationally. But this is not working. That’s my experience because humans are not rational. I think it’s useful, some for some things, but not for everything. And I would also say that rational thinking leads into depression.

What I mean is that when I look at myself, “OK, I’m 59 now. I can calculate. Maybe, I live 15 years on and I live here in this house and the environment situation, the climate change, and so on.” When you take all this into account, the world looks very depressed, negative. So, because, usually, you don’t see the positive sides; when I was at school, Germany was still divided. Europe was still divided. And I had told my teacher that I wanted to talk about the reunification at that time with him, at some point, he was looking at me like I was talking about landing on Mars or something. Because in 1982, when I was doing my schooling, the world was still divided. There was a wall and most people couldn’t imagine that this wall would fall. And especially, they could not imagine that it would fall seven years later.

And if I had told him in 10 years, I will work in Berlin and Potsdam, and I will go across the border every day because it doesn’t exist anymore. They would have called me completely nuts. That would be like if I was talking about living on Mars next year or something. So, I mean, rational thinking. Yes, it has its limits.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Member, CIVIQ High IQ Society.

[2] Individual Publication Date: October 15, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/neumann-5; Full Issue Publication Date: January 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Uwe Michael Neumann on Portraying Reality: Member, CIVIQ High IQ Society (4)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/10/08

Abstract

Uwe Michael Neumann developed a love of photography when he got his first camera, a Polaroid, at the age of eight years old. From 1982 to 1988, Neumann diverted from photography, studying law at Cologne State University. But his love of photography, driven by curiosity and the desire to see new things and discover and show their beauty, always called him back. He conducted his first photo tour in Provence, France in 1992. In 1998 he visited New York where he further developed his photographic style; experimenting with verticals and keystone/perspectives. Launching into the field of international cooperation he combined his daily work with his photography in Albania, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Estonia, Georgia, Finland, Macedonia, Moldova, Montenegro, Norway, Poland, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Sweden and Ukraine. In November 2014, Neumann attended the wedding of a daughter of the Sultan of Foumban, Princess Janina, in Foumban, north-west of Cameroon. There he met and became friends with the famous French photographer and producer, Alain Denis who inspired him to become a professional photographer, instructing him in portrait and landscape photography. After his life-changing visit to Cameroon in 2014 Neumann returned there in February 2015 taking photographs of Central Africa’s unique nature and everyday life, which differed greatly from Europe, and even tourist destinations in Africa like Kenya and the Republic of South Africa. During his stay in Central Africa, he lived in Yaoundé, Cameroon and travelled frequently to Equatorial Guinea, the Central African Republic, Gabon, Chad and Congo Brazzaville, among the poorest countries in the world. He also visited and photographed Algeria, Kinshasa (Democratic Republic of Congo), Benin, Kenya, Egypt, Mauretania and the Republic of South Africa. Neumann focused on often-overlooked treasures in nature, the environment, and beauty in places seemingly dominated by poverty. In October 2017, Neumann returned to Berlin and worked on over 90,000 photos from Africa, launching his first exhibition in May in ‘Animus Kunstgalerie’, Berlin. In October 2018 his exhibition ‘Inner Africa’ in GH 36 gallery in Berlin was focused on Central Africa displaying not only a huge variety of photographs, but also traditional masks from different regions. In 2019 and 2020, other exhibitions at Bülow90, Berlin and Nils Hanke, Berlin followed. In Ghent, Belgium, he was a speaker at the European Mensa Meeting 2019 on Africa and presented some of his works.  He was also invited to present his works in the online exhibition e-mERGING a r t i S T S. and again at GH36 in the exhibition No Time. One of his photos was on the title page of the Norwegian magazine Dyade in 2019. His photos have also been featured several times in the online Magazine Foto Minimal & Art. In December 2021 his works were part of an exhibition at Basel Art Center in Basel, Switzerland. He discusses: myths around intelligent people; Yaounde, Cameroon, and photographing reality.

Keywords: Cameroon, IQ, myths, photography, reality, Uwe Michael Neumann.

Conversation with Uwe Michael Neumann on Portraying Reality: Member, CIVIQ High IQ Society (4)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: This also another aspect of some of the conversations that I have with others. I mean, there are some myths around, not intelligence testing. All of those exist. It’s more around the aspects of intelligence. So, the idea that since someone has higher intelligence level; they, therefore, must have some compensatory mechanism. They must have a deficit in some area, other areas. These kinds of assumptions. And it’s harder to observe: A because it’s not physical prowess, which is immediately observable in someone. You can see someone as fit. Things coming from the mind are outputs. So, you have to see the person’s outputs in terms of intellectual productions, how they behave in life, et cetera, to get more of these more ephemeral qualities of the individual, which would be intelligent output in a wide range of or various circumstances. So, I can see a reason for a larger set of myths around intelligence just based on its being observed. At the same time, it also leads to a question. What are those myths? What have you come across as some of the myths about higher intelligence? And what do you think are some truths to dispel?

Uwe Michael Neumann[1],[2]*: I think many people are afraid of intelligent people. And maybe, also, because they think they are evil or something, and they want to be powerful or they want to use power. There may be some evil people, of course, I have read the Nazi leaders were also very intelligent, some of them. Of course, there are some evil people, but I think it’s not worse than any other layer of society. And maybe, that is one thing. Of course, that intelligent people are crazy; and that they are drug addicts. Some kind in some form. I remember once I spoke to a guy, some working class guy. He said that all the people from the university; they’re not drinking alcohol. They are into other substances and so on.

So, I think, maybe, one thing is also very common, which is also true that people, as far as I know; people rather tend to stay up late. And wake up late, some night owls, at least, that’s perfectly true with me and so many people who I know. But also, of course, there are others, the opposite. I would say that the main thing would be; I think that people think we are some kind of evil or also the myth that we have a high degree, academic degrees. And I know people who are working who are fitness trainers and who are carpenters who have very high IQ. So, basically, there is a high percentage of people who have an academic degree. I’m a lawyer. I have two law degrees. So, of course, many people have that. But it’s not necessarily the case.

And maybe, some professors of mathematics, they don’t have a high IQ, but, of course, they are capable of solving problems. I mean, it’s also, maybe, one myth: some people get tested and they get the result; they think, “Now, yes, I can do anything. I have an high IQ. I can just learn that, and I can do that.” No, IQ is one element. But to be successful in the field, you cannot replace or substitute, let’s say, experience by IQ, by intelligence. Because when you don’t know how to speak – let’s say – the ‘language,’ when you don’t practice, then you cannot speak it. And even if you have the highest IQ in the world, you have to practice.

Jacobsen: These are very important points. So, when you’re in Yaounde, Cameroon and taking photographs. What kinds of nature photographs or photography do you prefer, e.g., animals or landscapes, etc.?

Neumann: Actually, for me, it was very interesting to see the animals, especially the birds, because that’s really something that is really different. You don’t know to see it at first, but when you are sitting on your terrace. You look around. I remember one day I called and talked to my brother on the phone or Skype. The birds were singing, and it was very different from Europe. And I realize that the birds are completely different. And you don’t hear about that when you see a TV program about Africa. But when you’re there, this is a very small detail. And that was very interesting. And they are fast, and it’s also a challenge to take photos of them because they are so quick; and they move around. The spot photographers, they make a lot of fuss about the movement. I mean, it’s also great work.

But if you want to take photos of small birds that move around, that is really also hard work and a challenge. But what I also like is to just take pictures of ordinary people in ordinary situations because, at least we here in German-speaking Europe, we are getting a wrong idea by the media. I think they are completely missing the point when they talk about Africa. They are portraying it as if in Africa, everybody is starving. There’s constant catastrophe everywhere. Nothing is getting better and people are fleeing. But I can tell you: let’s say, if you look at the women, they are not as thin as European women because they don’t have this model culture when you have models like very small.

But when you see models from a fashion show from Nigeria, the models are like Ruben ladies. They’re completely different. And they are not starving. There is enough food for everybody and people are not fleeing, normally leaving the country, because they are so poor. But these are the people who have some more money and who want to go to, basically for most of them; it’s a business. And they want to improve their lives, which I can understand. But if you are starving, of course, that’s where there’s conflict. Usually, people are starving when there is conflict. And when the supply lines are cut off. We were having that in Germany in the First World War because the British blocked our supply lines. So, thousands of people, 10,000 were starving in Berlin in one summer, I think 1917, simply because the supply lines were cut off and that happened.

So also in Africa, that’s the same, when you have a conflict and the supply lines are cut off. Then, of course, people might starve. But the normal situation is not that people are starving. They have lots of food there. And actually, I’m thinking about showing photos of fat women from Africa to break this myth of the starving population. It’s not that I don’t want to help them, but I think the idea we get from the media, at least in Europe and Germany, is completely wrong. And it’s not like a permanent suffering. Of course, people have a lower level of life and the qualities and standards are much lower, but still it’s improving and it’s not like a permanent catastrophe. So, that’s why I’ve to come back to the original point. That is why I just want to show photos of this normal life, which for many people might not be so exciting because they are used to see like people from these tribes with the colorful things, with the spear and so on.

Ok, that is like if somebody from Bavaria is wearing leather trousers. It’s a traditional clothing, but people don’t use that in normal life. So, this is not reality. It’s nice, great photos. But this is not reality. I’m interested in reality. And the problem is media shows very narrow points, which are catastrophe. That it’s like when you have; let’s say, you have a rash on your skin. You’re bleeding, and so on. Like when you put a micro lens on the bleeding, it looks like everything is bleeding. No, it’s not everything. There’s a point that it’s bleeding. But the rest of the body is functioning normal. So, I’m interested to see reality and to show reality might be boring to many people. But that’s what I’m trying to do.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Member, CIVIQ High IQ Society.

[2] Individual Publication Date: October 8, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/neumann-4; Full Issue Publication Date: January 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Uwe Michael Neumann on Co-Morbidities, Heightened Intelligence, and Community: Member, CIVIQ High IQ Society (3)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/10/01

Abstract

Uwe Michael Neumann developed a love of photography when he got his first camera, a Polaroid, at the age of eight years old. From 1982 to 1988, Neumann diverted from photography, studying law at Cologne State University. But his love of photography, driven by curiosity and the desire to see new things and discover and show their beauty, always called him back. He conducted his first photo tour in Provence, France in 1992. In 1998 he visited New York where he further developed his photographic style; experimenting with verticals and keystone/perspectives. Launching into the field of international cooperation he combined his daily work with his photography in Albania, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Estonia, Georgia, Finland, Macedonia, Moldova, Montenegro, Norway, Poland, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Sweden and Ukraine. In November 2014, Neumann attended the wedding of a daughter of the Sultan of Foumban, Princess Janina, in Foumban, north-west of Cameroon. There he met and became friends with the famous French photographer and producer, Alain Denis who inspired him to become a professional photographer, instructing him in portrait and landscape photography. After his life-changing visit to Cameroon in 2014 Neumann returned there in February 2015 taking photographs of Central Africa’s unique nature and everyday life, which differed greatly from Europe, and even tourist destinations in Africa like Kenya and the Republic of South Africa. During his stay in Central Africa, he lived in Yaoundé, Cameroon and travelled frequently to Equatorial Guinea, the Central African Republic, Gabon, Chad and Congo Brazzaville, among the poorest countries in the world. He also visited and photographed Algeria, Kinshasa (Democratic Republic of Congo), Benin, Kenya, Egypt, Mauretania and the Republic of South Africa. Neumann focused on often-overlooked treasures in nature, the environment, and beauty in places seemingly dominated by poverty. In October 2017, Neumann returned to Berlin and worked on over 90,000 photos from Africa, launching his first exhibition in May in ‘Animus Kunstgalerie’, Berlin. In October 2018 his exhibition ‘Inner Africa’ in GH 36 gallery in Berlin was focused on Central Africa displaying not only a huge variety of photographs, but also traditional masks from different regions. In 2019 and 2020, other exhibitions at Bülow90, Berlin and Nils Hanke, Berlin followed. In Ghent, Belgium, he was a speaker at the European Mensa Meeting 2019 on Africa and presented some of his works.  He was also invited to present his works in the online exhibition e-mERGING a r t i S T S. and again at GH36 in the exhibition No Time. One of his photos was on the title page of the Norwegian magazine Dyade in 2019. His photos have also been featured several times in the online Magazine Foto Minimal & Art. In December 2021 his works were part of an exhibition at Basel Art Center in Basel, Switzerland. He discusses: heightened intelligence; a double diagnosis alongside depression with ADS; a social interest group through Mensa; and high-IQ communities are providing support for individuals.

Keywords: co-morbidities, depression, folk psychology, high-IQ, IQ, Uwe Michael Neumann.

Conversation with Uwe Michael Neumann on Co-Morbidities, Heightened Intelligence, and Community: Member, CIVIQ High IQ Society (3)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: And it’s counterfactual too. Because the correlations we have about heightened intelligence are that they’re positively linked rather than negatively linked. So, the folk psychology that you’re pointing out is counterfactual.

Uwe Michael Neumann[1],[2]*: Yes, it is. But I think this situation proved to me that people think so, because that was the only explanation. Why would you think that about this guy mostly, basically? So, what was it? I mean, he was just smaller than me. A lot smaller and he wore glasses. I didn’t wear glasses at that time. So, these two things. But that was really depressing to hear that because you cannot change it.

Jacobsen: You mentioned a double diagnosis alongside depression with ADS before. So, depression, I think in many countries; there’s more of a sensitivity to the difficulties that come along with it, minor and major, in many other forms of depression. Do you feel as if there’s more of a sensitivity to these morbidities? These things that may or may not help in certain areas of life.

Neumann: I think now there’s no sensitivity. Let’s say, I also have problems at work. I did a 10-page report on the U.S. tax reform. And I was focusing completely on the content. And my boss only commented that on page five, instead of font Arial, I was using Times New Roman and size 12. And they were always pointing out, “Yes, okay, that can happen to everybody,” but I think, “Okay, I have the tendency to overlook these things and to forget things and to lose things. I always constantly searching for things.” I now have developed some methods to reduce it a bit, but it’s a problem. But when you explain to people, I have a certificate. It’s officially accepted, officially proven. But when I tell that to my employers, they don’t understand that. They see, but they don’t understand about ADS and everything, so it’s difficult to explain to them.

So, that’s why I’m also trying to say I’m working at the tax administration and here the finance ministry. But I’m also working as a photographer. I’m trying to get independent and to become independent and to work solely. I want to make programs with Africa and international cooperation, and to also combine it with photography and video, and so on. So, I want to become independent because then, I think, I can design my own procedures and so on. So, that would help me out. The only thing lacking is funding, but, at the moment, it’s difficult for everybody.

Jacobsen: Do you think a social interest group through Mensa could be serviced to individuals with ADS, with depression, etc., to provide almost like a mutual support group as in, “I’m not the only one”?

Neumann: Yes. That’s very helpful. It’s always helpful to have discussion on a level that you can discuss things like this that we are talking about. And it’s really some conducted to the point of recharging the batteries. It’s very helpful, especially when you are not used to speak to intelligent people or people who understand the problems. It’s really like a relief. Anything that helps to exchange with all these things; it’s helpful. My friends and me, we are doing a lot of video conferencing like Zooming and so on. And that’s really helpful.

Jacobsen: Do you think that the high-IQ communities are providing support for individuals who might have co-morbidities? So, they have this thing generally seen as a positive, higher intelligence, while having certain things that can impair some functioning in life. It could be anxiety, depression, could be schizoaffective disorders, and so on. These things; I mean, they are distinct. They impact life in different ways. Yet, the commonality of someone having a high horsepower brain while having, three legs – so to speak, having that community of people to help them make sense of what’s happened in their life, for instance, or to have common communication. Do you think it’s at a point at which there is support or not?

Neumann: Yes. Let’s say to see that there are groups like this, and that there are people who have the same problems, it’s very supportive already. So, we are communicating. I think it’s very intense, also, because when you talk to somebody from Mensa; there’s some kind of respect. And how this person has been going through some difficulties in the past, of course, everybody has. But yes, there are specific problems. I mean, for most people the younger years are the best time of their life, but I would doubt at all for us. It’s more like it’s very difficult to realize that you’re different and you realize that you are different, but you don’t realize that in the first place. The first moment, in the beginning, you don’t realize that it’s high intelligence. People just think you are somehow strange and awkward.

So, you start to think somehow. Also, I think it’s also a self-fulfilling prophecy when people see you as something different. You feel uncomfortable. So, every kind of community and exchange helps you lots. It would have helped me a lot when I had this experience before. Actually, when I took the test, the IQ test was combined with the ADS test which was set by my neurologist. He explained the results for me. I was really shocked. I think, for three days, I was like walking like somebody with a shock, like had an accident or attack. It’s because it changes your whole view. And I’m now also on my way to work at the ministry while having my normal job. Many people think that, maybe, I’m stupid. They don’t understand. They wouldn’t think that I have passed this test with that result. They think that it has to be some kind of professor of mathematics in Princeton or – I don’t know – whatever university. That person has that test result, but not me.

Because I’m not perfect. I’m high-IQ, but but I have my shortcomings. So, it’s difficult. It’s also because the public perception of the majority of people; they would regard other people as potentially highly intelligent or whatever. Also, when it’s about partnerships and so on, I often hear the argument that women say that it must be easy for some intelligent men to get women because women want intelligent men. The thing is that the majority of women do not recognize intelligent men like the majority of men do not recognize intelligent men and women, of course. Because they have a different level of perpective, they cannot see it. It’s like basically, maybe; if you are in a bicycle race, and you see the person in front of you, but you don’t see the guy who is 10 kilometers in front of you because it’s so far away and can’t see him. I don’t know if that answered the question, but those were my thoughts about this.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Member, CIVIQ High IQ Society.

[2] Individual Publication Date: October 1, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/neumann-3; Full Issue Publication Date: January 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Uwe Michael Neumann on High-IQ Societies, Depression, ADS, and Alcohol: Member, CIVIQ High IQ Society (2)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/09/22

Abstract

Uwe Michael Neumann developed a love of photography when he got his first camera, a Polaroid, at the age of eight years old. From 1982 to 1988, Neumann diverted from photography, studying law at Cologne State University. But his love of photography, driven by curiosity and the desire to see new things and discover and show their beauty, always called him back. He conducted his first photo tour in Provence, France in 1992. In 1998 he visited New York where he further developed his photographic style; experimenting with verticals and keystone/perspectives. Launching into the field of international cooperation he combined his daily work with his photography in Albania, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Estonia, Georgia, Finland, Macedonia, Moldova, Montenegro, Norway, Poland, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Sweden and Ukraine. In November 2014, Neumann attended the wedding of a daughter of the Sultan of Foumban, Princess Janina, in Foumban, north-west of Cameroon. There he met and became friends with the famous French photographer and producer, Alain Denis who inspired him to become a professional photographer, instructing him in portrait and landscape photography. After his life-changing visit to Cameroon in 2014 Neumann returned there in February 2015 taking photographs of Central Africa’s unique nature and everyday life, which differed greatly from Europe, and even tourist destinations in Africa like Kenya and the Republic of South Africa. During his stay in Central Africa, he lived in Yaoundé, Cameroon and travelled frequently to Equatorial Guinea, the Central African Republic, Gabon, Chad and Congo Brazzaville, among the poorest countries in the world. He also visited and photographed Algeria, Kinshasa (Democratic Republic of Congo), Benin, Kenya, Egypt, Mauretania and the Republic of South Africa. Neumann focused on often-overlooked treasures in nature, the environment, and beauty in places seemingly dominated by poverty. In October 2017, Neumann returned to Berlin and worked on over 90,000 photos from Africa, launching his first exhibition in May in ‘Animus Kunstgalerie’, Berlin. In October 2018 his exhibition ‘Inner Africa’ in GH 36 gallery in Berlin was focused on Central Africa displaying not only a huge variety of photographs, but also traditional masks from different regions. In 2019 and 2020, other exhibitions at Bülow90, Berlin and Nils Hanke, Berlin followed. In Ghent, Belgium, he was a speaker at the European Mensa Meeting 2019 on Africa and presented some of his works.  He was also invited to present his works in the online exhibition e-mERGING a r t i S T S. and again at GH36 in the exhibition No Time. One of his photos was on the title page of the Norwegian magazine Dyade in 2019. His photos have also been featured several times in the online Magazine Foto Minimal & Art. In December 2021 his works were part of an exhibition at Basel Art Center in Basel, Switzerland. He discusses: the Big Five; openness to experiences amongst the high-IQ; rigid structure; finding out about the gifts; the formal diagnosis for depression; and a protective against various forms of mental illness.

Keywords: Big Five, depression, high-IQ, openness to experience, IQ, Uwe Michael Neumann.

Conversation with Uwe Michael Neumann on High-IQ Societies, Depression, ADS, and Alcohol: Member, CIVIQ High IQ Society (2)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: What do you think of the, typically, psychologists who spend their life studying this stuff, speaking of the Big Five personality traits? Do you think openness to experiences, as you’re noting, is a big correlate with higher intelligence?

Uwe Michael Neumann[1],[2]*: Yes, I think certainly. Openness to new experiences, yes, for sure.

Jacobsen: What do you think might be exceptions to that rule?

Neumann: Openness to experiences. Exceptions, I don’t know. Maybe, some people are less interested. Let’s say a place like Africa, also higher IQ people, not everybody is interested to hear about Africa, but many people. But maybe, there are some who are, of course, not so keen on that. But basically, it’s compared to other groups of people. It’s very open and very open minded and very interested. People are very interested in these things. But no exception. No idea at the moment. Maybe later after the interview.

Jacobsen: It might be something like some kind of comorbid cognitive deficit in a social and a socio-emotional area, or something like this, where someone who is, for instance, part of Mensa or some other group qualifies, appropriately, while having a limitation in their interpersonal functioning. So, they would prefer the kind of rigid structure and don’t necessarily have a necessary tendency towards openness to experience. This sort of thing.

Neumann: Yes. Ok. I think many people are shy. So, even though, they are generally open, but, at some point – and also me, they are shy. When I was young, I was very, very lonely because I was growing up in a working class area. There are also very smart good working-class people. But in general, these people are very not smart, not so intelligent – let’s say, the opposite of intelligent. And I don’t have a grudge, but I was very lonely because you don’t fit in and then it’s difficult to interact with other people. I have many problems with that; and I think many people have the same problem when they are young. Many people are shy and that limits their possibilities.

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: So, when were you finding out about the gifts? When did you develop those formal interests in academics to hopefully have your intelligence flourish a little bit more in school?

Uwe Michael Neumann: In school, I knew that I was intelligent, let’s say, in the first class. We had a contest, math contest, arithmetic; and we were given tasks like, “What is five plus five?” and then you have to add to answer. If you were the first one to answer, you could advance one step. And I was very fast. I was the guy who was winning the contest. I was always five six steps beyond the others. So, I realized that, “Yes, there’s something in me.” Also, I realize that I’m more sensitive than other people. I realized this about the world, let’s say. So, that gave me a shock. Because when you’re at a very young age, you realize how the world is. You get depressed, I would say. Because the first few, if you see the world is so big, there’s fighting. There’s aggression. There’s this and that and crime.

For me, at first, it was like when the ideas of the travel thinking. I became aware of my real involvement. Also, in this working class environment, this poor, relatively poor low education working class environment, I was really depressed. Also, I started some kind of meditation when I was 12 or 13 because I was lonely. I had no friends so much in that area when we moved, when I was 12 to a new area. And I was very lonely. I started meditating. I was thinking about things just sitting around, and so on. So, yes, I didn’t feel so good about university because I was also shocked when I came to university because in the first year; we were 800 students and I got really a shock. So, I’ve never felt really at ease at university and wasn’t particularly good at that. Yes, I can only work when I feel good, when I feel comfortable.

And also, I’m basically shy. So, for me, it was difficult. I tend to have depression. So, that’s also difficult when you only can work, let’s say, one hour a day because of your depression. And to get on with your work, so, that was difficult for me.

Jacobsen: What’s the formal diagnosis for depression?

Neumann: Diagnosis, yes. It was diagnosed later. But let’s say, I was constantly in psychotherapy and with a psychoanalyst, which didn’t help, actually. But now, I have a very good neurologist; and this is helping a lot; and Mensa is helping a lot. For me, this is the first time in my life. I became a member of Mensa and other High IQ organizations 10 years ago. And since then, it helped me a lot because now I really have friends and so got some new situation for me. So, I’m very thankful to have that.

Jacobsen: I’m not a psychiatrist. However, do you think that higher intelligence is a protective against various forms of mental illness, or do you think it can make it worse if present?

Neumann: Let’s say, I think in my case, I was more prone to mental illness or depression and things like that. And I suffer also from ADS. I think many people get depression. So, I get to cry. Yes, I get depressed very often. And it helps also to find strategies to get out of it. I developed a strategy for myself to stop drinking alcohol. I never took any drugs. Only once, I tried, but it was very few. But I had the habit of drinking alcohol every evening. I wasn’t an alcoholic. But I just had the habit to drink instead of one beer then it became two beers. In the end, it became three beers, basically, over years, many years. And at one point, I realized that I only drank beer because I was used to drinking beer. And then I developed a strategy to get out of this, and that worked, and that was 10 years ago.

So, I cannot sell it as a program for other people because it’s tailor made for me. But basically, you are able to get out of certain things. The thing of when I was very young was that you are not basically allowed to think that you would be one percent of the population in this group, basically, especially when you grow up in a working class environment, working class lower level public servants, and so on. You’re constantly told that you are not excellent. You cannot be that; or, maybe, they don’t tell you openly. And also, when you’re a man and you’re relatively big one, I’m six foot one and a half or something. People tend to think that you’re not intelligent. I remember when I was in school, I was sitting at a table. We were two students at one table. So, I was sitting next to a small guy with glasses. I didn’t wear the glasses at the time when I was at school. He was very small; and he wore glasses.

And at the end of the school year, the teacher said, “Yes, you got a three or two.“ We have a number system. One is very good and two is good. „But only thanks to your neighbor.” And I was really shocked because he was thinking that the small guy helped me to get through all this. And it wasn’t like that. We were sometimes exchanging, but it’s not like he was feeding me with the information. But people think when you are really big and when you’re a man; that you’re not intelligent, basically. And that is sometimes very… I find it depressing.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Member, CIVIQ High IQ Society.

[2] Individual Publication Date: September 22, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/neumann-2; Full Issue Publication Date: January 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Bob Williams on David Piffer, Latent Variable Analysis, High Correlations with the g Factor, Executive Function, Leonardo da Vinci, DMN, Booze, Promiscuity, and Charles Murray: Retired Nuclear Physicist (4)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/09/15

Abstract

Bob Williams is a Member of the Triple Nine Society, Mensa International, and the International Society for Philosophical Enquiry. He discusses: the more evidenced theories of creativity similar to g or general intelligence as the majority position of researchers in the field of general intelligence; theories of genius; the main figures in these areas of creativity and genius connected to the research on g; personality differences between scientists and artists; conscientiousness; the ability to think; the expected probability of genius at higher and higher cognitive rarities; Howard Gardner; Robert Sternberg; the works of Arthur Jensen building on Charles Spearman; and the questions remaining about genius.

Keywords: alcoholism, Arthur Jensen, Bob Williams, Booze, Camilla Persson Benbow, Charles Murray, creativity, David Becker, David Lubinski, David Piffer, Dean Keith Simonton, Default Mode Network, Executive Function, Flynn Effect, g Factor, genius, Hans Eysenck, Ian Deary, Latent Variable Analysis, Leonardo da Vinci, Linda Gottfredson, Michael Woodley, Nyborg, Promiscuity, Richard Haier, Richard Lynn, Richard Sternberg, sex drive, The Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale.

Conversation with Bob Williams on David Piffer, Latent Variable Analysis, High Correlations with the g Factor, Executive Function, Leonardo da Vinci, DMN, Booze, Promiscuity, and Charles Murray: Retired Nuclear Physicist (4)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: After a hiatus, round four, what would make a general test of creativity valid? Has David Piffer proposed anything? 

Bob Williams[1],[2]*: Piffer has done a good bit of work related to creativity and published several papers on it. To avoid congestion with my answer, I will append references to some of these papers. One of his particularly interesting observations: “There is some evidence that schizotypal triats and temperament are associated with creativity. Schizotypal traits as measured by the O-LIFE questionnaire were related to creative thinking styles and a subscale (but not the other three scales) ImpNon (Impulsive Noncomformity) was positively correlated to Divergent Thinking tasks in a sample of British students.“ 

Among the things he mentions in his papers are that Openness and low Conscientiousness are predictors of creativity. This has high face value and indirectly links creativity to intelligence (via Openness). He found a correlation of 0.54 between scientific and artistic creativity that was 70% genetic. Piffer suggested that the best measure of creativity is the impact of a work on its creative field. I like that definition more than the usual one of something novel and useful

From my perspective, measuring creativity is difficult. It is not like intelligence in that we don’t have a positive manifold and we don’t have good ways to check the measurement instruments. One of the problems I see is the lack of importance in creativity below the level that we see in great composers, directors, writers, etc. If a person has a very low level of creativity, or even no realistically detectable level, he will not suffer in the way that the same low standing would cause problems relative to intelligence. Piffer referred to two kinds of creativity: Big-C (as in true genius) and Pro-C (someone at a level where he can work professionally in a creative discipline). If we add one more category, Little C, we have a group where there is a range of creativity, but where it has little impact. 

People actually try to measure creativity over a full range. I’m not sure why or whether they have paid much attention to how the Little-C people are affected by their level of creativity. 

Tests have a construct validity and an external validity. The construct (internal) validity is simply an indication that the test is measuring the thing it is supposed to measure–in this case, creativity. The treatment of construct validity is less rigorous than a test of external (predictive) validity. One way it 

is done is by comparison to tests or other means of making the measurement. If it matches conventional expectations, it is showing internal validity. In the case of intelligence, the usual method is to factor analyze the test and compare the resulting factors to those found in other tests that are believed to show construct validity. 

If we consider validity to mean accuracy, the question is one of how well the test predicts creative output. If we have people at two significantly different levels of creativity, can we use their output to validate the measure, as we do in intelligence testing? I don’t know the answer; I see the whole approach to creativity measurement as fuzzy, even when compared to other life sciences. 

The more important validity is external or predictive validity, which tells us that the test is measuring things that can be predicted and verified. If the test shows that someone is in the 90th percentile of creativity, we expect that the person will display high levels of creativity in his job and life. For example, he may be a successful screenwriter or composer. Predictive validity is central to the whole

notion of being able to meaningfully test for creativity. If we are measuring things that actually predict real world outcomes, the test is useful. If it fails this, the test is of questionable value. 

Jacobsen: Why is the reliance on latent variable analysis important for the study of creativity? 

Williams: Latent traits are found in multifaceted constructs, including creativity. The use of latent traits allows the researcher to show how multiple variables interact and form a structure. Remote association tests are used in creativity research with good results. The difficulty level of making specific connections (item level in the test) can be determined using latent trait models. This is similar to Item Response Theory as used in intelligence tests. 

Jacobsen: Why is the reliance on latent variable analysis important for the study of intelligence? 

Williams: The often displayed hierarchical structure of intelligence is a representation of latent tra its. These identify narrow and broad abilities and g. All of these are latent traits and are essential to the understanding of intelligence. It is difficult to overstate the importance of g in the study of intelligence. It translates directly to the study of the brain, is remarkably stable over lifespan, and explains life outcomes better than any other single parameter. 

Jacobsen: What five items or tasks in formal intelligence tests have the highest correlation with the g factor? 

Williams: The g loadings of various factors are test dependent. For example, vocabulary is a well known factor that usually shows a very high g loading. But its specific loading depends on the structure of the test and the number of test items that correspond to each factor. If you add more test items, it tends to skew the loadings upwards. Some tests are designed to use only a single category of test items. The best known of these is the Raven’s Progressive Matrices. It can be factor analyzed to show that it has factors other than g, but those factors are usually ignored because they are not the traditional ones seen in comprehensive tests, such as the WAIS. 

The WISC-IV has only 5 Stratum II factors. Here are the g loadings for those: 

 Comprehension-Knowledge (Gc) __ .80 

 Fluid reasoning (Gf) __________ .95 

 Short-Term Memory (Gsm) _______ .62 

 Visual Processing (Gv) ________ .67 

 Processing Speed (Gs) _________ .27  

Timothy Salthouse created a factor structure from 33 of his studies (about 7,000 people, ages 18 through 95) and also found 5 Stratum II factors. The g loadings he found: 

Reasoning _____________________ .95 

Spatial ability _______________ .91 

Memory _______________________ .66 

Processing speed ______________ .60 

Vocabulary ____________________ .73 

Johnson and Bouchard found a natural structure of intelligence by using the 15 test Hawaii Battery, the

Comprehensive Ability Battery, and the The Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale. They eliminated some subtests to avoid duplication. When they factor analyzed the massive test, a four stratum structure emerged. I consider this to be the best fully analyzed study of the structure of intelligence. The top 5 g loadings: 

Verbal ________________________ .96 Stratum III factor Perceptual ____________________ .99 Stratum III factor Image rotation ________________ .97 Stratum III factor Scholastic ____________________ .88 Stratum II factor 

Fluency _______________________ .83 Stratum II factor 

The point of presenting these different results is to show how different tests cause different factors and different loadings. The very high loadings, in the last set, are the result of the large number of diverse test items used. This causes most non-g factors to cancel out. 

Jacobsen: What do these five tasks or sub-tests tell us about the structure of general intelligence and the human brain? 

Williams: If you look at the three sets of factors, you see that they are similar. Tests are generally designed to either fit the three stratum Cattell-Horn-Carroll model, or are forced to produce another three stratum structure. All tests show one general factor, that may appear at stratum II, III, or IV. Ergo, we have accepted and repeatedly confirmed Spearman’s early findings. I am always amazed by how much he reported over a century ago and how dead-on accurate his findings were. 

Richard Haier formulated the Efficiency Hypothesis based on positron emission tomography studies he did, starting in 1988. These showed high glucose uptake in low IQ cohorts and lower glucose uptake in high IQ testees. It meant that, when trying to resolve the same mental task, the low IQ group required high mental effort, while the bright group required less mental effort. Some MRI work was available with Jensen wrote The g Factor (1998), but it has only been in the 21st century that we have had large MRI based studies. It has only been possible to look for g in the brain by using advanced imaging technologies. Among the most important are structural MRI, functional MRI, and diffusion tensor imaging. The latter two have provided the ability to study white matter and brain networks. 

The above comments are a necessary introduction to what has been learned about the general factor within the brain. We already knew that g was unitary at the psychometric level. Now we know that it is not unitary at the neurological level. Richard Haier and Rex Jung found 14 Brodmann Areas that are strongly related to intelligence and problem solving. They created a model known as P-FIT (parieto-frontal integration theory) [described in detail in Haier, R. J. (2017); The Neuroscience of Intelligence, Cambridge University Press]. The model involves a sequential transfer of information between the cognitive centers, ending in the frontal lobes where the integrated information is evaluated. 

The distributed nature of g within the brain has been confirmed by various studies, including focal lesion studies (using the Vietnam Head Injury Study). An important finding from this and other studies of networks is that damage to critical white matter areas causes lowered g. These areas are concentrated networks that link the P-FIT regions. Since the important cognitive centers work by information exchange, we have to think of g in the brain as the areas that are being linked as well as the efficiency of the connecting networks. 

Most of the P-FIT Brodmann Areas (BA) share their associations with g and other non-g traits. BA-10,

however, is only associated with g. This area appears to function as a control mechanism that is critical to the distributed processing nature of g. 

Jacobsen: What do current tests of general intelligence miss? 

Williams: As you would expect, different tests miss different things. While researchers today recommend comprehensive tests (WAIS and Woodcock-Johnson, etc.) other tests that are not diverse still work well for most purposes. This is because of Spearman’s indifference of the indicator. We are ultimately trying to measure g and can do that by a variety of seemingly unrelated tests. Each of the different tests (consider vocabulary and block design) is g loaded and is measuring the same g. 

But, we know from the structure of intelligence that there are factors, particularly at the broad abilities level (Stratum II) that are particularly important to some tasks. Arguably the most important of these is spatial ability. In this paper: [Spatial Ability for STEM Domains: Aligning Over 50 Years of Cumulative Psychological Knowledge; Jonathan Wai, David Lubinski, and Camilla P. Benbow; 2009, Journal of Educational Psychology Vol. 101, No. 4, 817–835.] the authors show that spatial ability is high in people who pursue engineering and sciences and its magnitude increases as the degrees held go from Bachelors, to Masters, to PhD. These fields are heavily dominated by males. At least part of the reason is that there is a sex difference in spatial ability favoring males. Some tests do not have any spatial ability test items, so they would certainly miss this ability. We know that various test designers try to force their tests to show invariance by sex, which may be why they do not include spatial ability test items. 

Jacobsen: How much can an individual train and change the degree of executive function in adult life? Is it a trainable skill or something more innate as with the g factor? 

Williams: I haven’t seen any research showing that the executive function can be enhanced by training. It seems, however, that some people can increase things such as Attention and the inhibitory function (both are components of the executive function) when needed and decrease them when that is appropriate. When we see people focused to a degree that blocks out virtually everything around them, they are using the executive function in conjunction with the inhibitory function to stay on task and to block external stimuli. All of this is strongly related to working memory. High WMC enhances the executive function and other factors such as rate of learning, the formation of long term memories, and fluid intelligence. 

Jacobsen: With someone like Leonardo Da Vinci, what would the structure of such a creative genius mind look like in real-time at peak performance? 

Williams: I don’t think we have any data that relates directly to brain imaging of true genius. If we did have it, I would expect that those in different fields (art versus science) would show behaviors that are similar to their colleagues and quite different from those in other disciplines.  

The issue of artistic and scientific creativity is interesting to me; I see it as unresolved. I once asked Rex Jung if the two forms were the same and he said that they were. Jensen, on the other hand, expressed a belief that intelligence was a larger factor in scientific creativity as compared to artistic creativity. To me, this has more face value. I think that Jung was considering how tests of creativity work over a wide range of ability and was not focused on the rare true genius brains.

Neurologists have done measurements of some people while doing a creative task, such as music improvisation. Their findings are certainly related to real-time creativity, but I do not see this as relating to the brains of Leonardo or Beethoven. The task of learning what is going on in their brains is so difficult that I think it will not be resolved for a long time. The starting problem is to find people who are actually at that level of creativity. Then we have to be able to make meaningful measurements at the moment they are inspired to create. I think that director David Lynch is at that level of creative genius, but I doubt that we can monitor him constantly and figure out when and how his brain comes up with the huge number of elements that go into the finished film. My guess is that it is a series of creative flashes, spaced by tasks that require either different kinds of thought or those that do not demand creativity. 

I would also expect that if we were lucky enough to be able to examine several creative geniuses, we would find different approaches. Some would probably go into long, deep, creative sessions and some would have multiple sudden insights that they combine to produce their works. And we might find some who do both over the course of a project. 

In the specific case of Leonardo we have the most extreme example of a polymath I can imagine. His brain would be a neurological treasure today, now that we finally have the technology to really study it. In such extreme cases of genius it is difficult to imagine what biological factors were combined to 

produce the end results that were so profound. One would have to assume that his brain was an extreme case of factors that simply do not exist together in others. From the little we were able to learn about Einstein’s brain, we know that his too was bizarrely different. 

Jacobsen: What is the DMN, default mode network? 

Williams: The DMN is the network that we use during mind-wandering, spontaneous cognition, imagination and divergent thinking. It is detectable by the presence of increased alpha-power. As is always true, things are messy. While the DMN is clearly linked to these things, the production of novel ideas seems to arise from the interaction of the DMN and various other networks. When the brain stops mind-wandering and focuses on a specific task, the DMN disengages and switches to other networks. We now know that the brain doesn’t lock in on a specific network for a prolonged period; it switches between networks. One of the things that emerged from the focal brain injury studies was the identification of the regulatory role of Brodmann Area 10 as I previously mentioned. I am unsure if this includes network switching, but I think it is likely. 

I once asked Richard Haier if it was known whether solutions to problems (the kind that happen after study and then hit us unexpectedly as we are doing something unrelated) are actually made in real-time while we are in the DMN or if the answers were made subconsciously and then revealed using the DMN as a vehicle. He said we don’t know yet. 

Jacobsen: Odd question, incoming: How would a universal definition of genius expand into other species? So, we see certain traits consistent across species with some conscious cognitive capacity, so as to consider them – exceptional minds in individual species – geniuses. This would seem an enlarged consideration, biologically, of genius with potential insight into the nature of human genius, so the quality of genius itself. 

Williams: The only definitions I believe are appropriate to true human genius are those that relate to a constellation of traits, expressed at a high level. In the case of animal studies, it is difficult to measure as many behavioral traits as we see in humans. For example, researchers have found a general factor of intelligence in some animals, but that factor is based on a rather small group of different categories of problem solving. It may be possible to measure factors such as zeal and persistence in animals, but we have to see that these things are actually productive. For example, I recall a study of wolves and dogs in which there was a barrier between them and food. The wolves continued to repeat the same efforts to go directly to the food. The dogs figured out that they needed help and tried to get it from humans. The point here is that, while persistence tends to be a genius trait, it is so because the genius does not repeat the same failed effort endlessly. We have seen a lot more animal studies in recent years and they are becoming more sophisticated. It is likely that they will eventually have a wider spectrum of tests and measures of animal behavior and that may lead us to identify exceptional individuals. Related to this, much of the animal kingdom is organized around male physical strength and fighting over mates, which creates a situation where the things we see as genius in humans may not show up at all. 

Jacobsen: Why do creative people tend to drink so much? 

Williams: In the book The Cambridge Handbook of the Neuroscience of Creativity (2018) Rex E. Jung (Editor), Oshin Vartanian (Editor), there is a mention of creative professions showing twice the rate of alcoholism as found in the general population. Some of the people in these professions have creativity expectations associated with the use of alcohol. In general they seem to be right, at least for the insight stage of creativity, but as the amount of alcohol they consume increases, their creative output declines. As we know, at least from modern history, creative people tend to use other drugs as well. 

Jacobsen: Why are actors the biggest drinkers? 

Williams: The book cited above confirms that actors (60%) use alcohol at a level beyond the norm for the general public. It mentions writers as being particularly likely to have serious problems with booze. This makes sense in that writers have to constantly create new material and their “writers’ block” is often mentioned in various media. 

Jacobsen: Could those without high levels of executive function, but latent creativity, help themselves with exogenous agents such as alcohol to perform creative functions? However, this leads to the deleterious lives exhibited in high-performing creatives who have to rely on alcohol and other substances to accomplish incredible creative feats. 

Williams: I haven’t seen studies that directly address this situation. It falls into a category of research that is likely to be regarded as too dangerous unless conducted from natural data. I believe that it is a case of “a little helps, but too much hurts.” It follows the distribution that is sometimes called the inverted U curve. We see this in psychosis and neurosis, both contributing positively to genius results, but only when the level is “elevated” and not substantial. Various substances, that are used to enhance creativity, appear to work this way. The problem is that the use of the substances can become a drive and cause the user to not moderate his intake. 

Jacobsen: Is there a correlation between sex drive/promiscuity and genius? 

Williams: I can only guess, as I haven’t seen a specific study relating to it. What we often see in true genius is isolation and often no children. But I expect we can find rather extreme cases of sexual behavior, depending on the specific personalities and possibly on the category of work they do. One discussion

that relates to this: Who are the “Clever Sillies”? The intelligence, personality, and motives of clever silly originators and those who follow them; Edward Dutton, Dimitri van der Linden; Intelligence 49 (2015) 57–65. The title of the paper is somewhat misleading. From the paper: “… creative, original, uncooperative, and impulsive risk-takers. These kinds of characteristics permit them, like artists, to conceive of an original idea, thus showcasing their intelligence and creativity, and take the risks 

necessary – short term ostracism – to achieve their long term goal of high socioeconomic status. The fact that some of those whom we have assessed achieved high social status but not high economic status can thus be seen as the risks only partially paying off. In addition, the lack of sexual success among some of these figures is congruous with many geniuses not having children. But their actions can be interpreted as advantageous at the group level.” 

Jacobsen: If taking one moral perspective on it, is there a correlation between perversion or various forms and genius? 

Williams: That one falls outside of my knowledge base. I can imagine that there may be various forms of perversion, but I haven’t seen anything that explores the relationship. 

Jacobsen: When does conscientiousness become a negative trait? What contexts? I do not mean simply statements on specific professions. 

Williams: Low conscientiousness is found in artistic people and high conscientiousness is characteristic of people more likely to be found in STEM. Conscientiousness is less likely among people who use drugs (per our discussion) and who have random life patterns, consisting of no schedule or traditional jobs. The extent of problems relating to low conscientiousness is probably related to specific professions. There are lots of stories of actors who were difficult to work with, inclined to walk out, or get drunk. The most extreme cases of near-zero conscientiousness are those from the world of rock music, where performers have written the book on bad behavior and short lifespans. The “27 Club” was the subject of a documentary [27: Gone Too Soon] of at least 6 high level performers, but the total toll for young deaths is much larger. Low conscientiousness was one of many things that are obvious in the world of idol worshiped musicians. 

Jacobsen: Following from the previous question, when does conscientiousness become a positive trait? What contexts? 

Williams: In most employment situations, where a person has responsibilities that relate to an entire group, conscientiousness is valuable. You want to have the person who, when given a job, can be counted on to get it done, even if there is a tight deadline. The performers we discussed would not be a good choice for this kind of business. 

Jacobsen: How much is productivity a measure of genius? 

Williams: The magnitude of output of true geniuses is high. We see massive quantities of output from composers, painters, and writers, even from those who died very young. Part of this may be related to the speed with which some art is created. I once watched a documentary of Picasso, showing him painting. He was fast and changed the painting frequently by painting over parts of the painting repeatedly. I seriously doubt that a sculptor could chisel his way through a piece of marble quickly. The task is at least partly related to productivity, in the sense of output rate.

Jacobsen: Are there any substances that temporarily or artificially increase tissue functionality? Or, more generally, what about substances going in either direction of high FA and low FA temporarily due to their intake? What would be the expected effects and productive outputs from such intake, when heading into artificial high FA and artificial low FA? Perhaps, the wording isn’t sufficiently precise in the questions, but, I think, the curiosity for the idea is there. 

Williams: That is a thought provoking question. For the benefit of readers who are not familiar with FA, in this context, it means fractional anisotropy. This is a measure of diffusivity. If FA is zero, the medium is isotropic; if it is at the other extreme, 1, it means that the diffusion is along one axis and there is no loss to radial diffusion. In brain imaging, we see high FA as desirable; this means high tissue integrity. 

In the cases I have seen reported, FA is discussed as a tissue property that does not fluctuate. If it goes down, it stays down. But there may be studies showing that there are agents that can reduce FA temporarily and that it would return to normal when the agent is no longer present. Alcohol or drugs associated with hallucination might have some impact on FA (guessing). During the past week, we had the annual conference of the International Society for Intelligence Research. One factor that was discussed during an open session was the impact of anesthesia on the brain. I was unaware that it is believed to be damaging to intelligence. Unfortunately, the discussion was in the context of a one-way trip down. 

The reason this could relate to creativity (assuming that it happens) is that low FA can result in the brain following longer paths to join information. This presumably causes brain regions that are not related to the task at hand to be activated and may result in the formation of remote associations of the type associated with creativity. This would happen if a network has broken connections, thereby causing the brain to follow longer paths to complete tasks that recruit information from different parts of the brain. 

Jacobsen: For Mensa International, Intertel, the Triple Nine Society, the Prometheus Society, and the Mega Society, you observed a trend or pattern – non-absolute – of individuals who may not succeed in “education, profession, and personal relationships.” They seem more prone to becoming a part of them. Jensen mentioned in the Mega Press interview the dilettantish nature of the interactions and a void in deep, critical evaluation. Yet, the qualifications of the societies ground themselves in higher, sometimes abnormally, higher than normal IQs. Which leads to an associated, but somewhat distant, question, what is IQ missing regarding critical intelligence if that’s the case? The stereotype with some truth to it: A genius level IQ without a sense of the mechanics of the social and professional world, or the right question to probe an intellectual problem appropriately. 

Williams: It is certainly true and easily observable that these groups are statistically more attractive to people who have failed to establish meaningful careers, despite having high intelligence. Jensen mentioned that he was personally able to form satisfying relationships with his work colleagues and that, while all were bright, none belonged to Mensa (the only example he mentioned). Part of the answer may lie in the nature of personality. Of the Big Five, only Openness is significantly correlated with intelligence. That leaves a lot of room for other factors, as well as those that only appear in other personality test batteries, to cause problems. In fact, if you look at the four other traits, all of them can be expressed in a direction that could be poisonous to careers. I would expect that two traits would be particularly damaging: low conscientiousness and high neuroticism. 

Jacobsen: Does Charles Murray account for global population growth with the 1.5 times per year number in genius emergence? In short, is this number larger in more recent history with vastly more people living at the same time compared to the past, e.g. 0.75 times per year at some point in the past and 3 times per year at a time closer to the present? This is taking into account the speculation of a decline in mean national intelligence. 

Williams: No. Murray simply identified 4,002 people of extreme eminence over the period 800 B.C. to 1950 and limited his study to arts and sciences. The problem of computing the rate of genius birth is complicated because of the decline in real intelligence that is largely driven by the negative correlation between intelligence and fertility rate. [See At Our Wits’ End: Why We’re Becoming Less Intelligent and What It Means for the Future, by E. A. Dutton & M. A. Woodley of Menie. Exeter, UK: Imprint Academic.]  Dutton and Woodley express concern that the births of geniuses will become increasingly rare, despite many births among low intelligence groups. They fear that this will or already has led to a reduction in innovation and discovery rates. 

Jacobsen: What are the difficulties in estimation of mean national intelligence? 

Williams: We approach the study of national intelligence (the comparison of mean IQs by nation) by gathering as many datasets as possible for the nation in question, then converting them to a single standard. The conversion is parallel in principle to what we would do in a national economic comparison. In the latter case, we would convert all currencies to a single reference, such as the dollar or Euro. The standard we use for intelligence is white British. This standard is sometimes called the Greenwich IQ Standard. The details of conversion are discussed in Richard Lynn & David Becker (2019). The Intelligence of Nations. Ulster Institute for Social Research, London GB ISBN 9780993000157. 

For the most part, the difficulties are simply that it takes a large amount of work to deal with the full set of nations for which we have IQ data. There are lots of studies available for developed nations and most emerging nations, but some poorly developed nations have limited data available. When The Bell Curve was written, there were only a few reports of intelligence for sub-Saharan Africa. But since 1994, we have had data pouring in from around the world. Today we have so much data for many nations that we can map intelligence within the nation by states or provinces. These data have resulted in within-nation studies that have shown patterns that seem to largely reflect migration and economic factors. A rather large number of nations exhibit a higher mean IQ in the northern regions and a decrease at lower latitudes. The opposite is seen in Britain, where the brightest region is in the south and the dullest in the north. Researchers have explained this as the result of the decline in the coal mining industry and its impact on migration. In India, Intelligence is higher in the South and in states with a coastline (indicating economic factors relating to trade). When Richard Lynn first reported the intelligence gradient for Italy (higher in the North) he explained it by noting that mean local intelligence reflects the fraction of the population that immigrated from the Near East and North Africa. In that study regional IQs predict income at r = 0.937. This resulted in papers objecting to his findings and that resulted in an exchange of published papers. It appears that Lynn was (as I would have guessed) right. [The title of the initial paper is a good summary of what was found. In Italy, north–south differences in IQ predict differences in income, education, infant mortality, stature, and literacy; Richard Lynn; Intelligence 38 (2010) 93–100.] 

Jacobsen: What is the validity of the measurements done globally now? Some areas must be more reliable than others because of the finances and expertise to do it properly. 

Williams: I haven’t seen any reports of reliability for the IQ scores used in the national level studies. When IQ and the Wealth of Nations appeared, two things were triggered. The first was that researchers began to try different curve fits and concluded that a log scale works best and that nations with IQs below 90 were either in poverty or had valuable natural resources (usually oil). Some researchers attacked Lynn as usual. They claimed that his numbers were wrong; that they were based on too few data; that the nations were he used neighboring scores to estimate means could not be true; and that his entire study was politically incorrect and could not be trusted. But, the data, as mentioned above, kept coming in from sources around the world. Now we can say that Lynn was right on every point and that even the estimated mean scores were very close to measured scores that are now available. The validity of this work is shown in the many things that national mean IQ predicts: At the national level, mean national IQ correlates positively with per capita GDP, economic growth, economic freedom, rule of law, democratization, adult literacy, savings, national test scores on science and math, enrollment in higher education, life expectancy, and negatively with HIV infection, employment, violent crime, poverty, % agricultural economy, corruption, fertility rate, polygyny, and religiosity. These are the kinds of things used to establish the predictive validity of IQ tests. Naturally, there are confounds, such as the presence of natural resources in some low IQ nations, but the statistical predictions remain powerful. 

Jacobsen: Who else, other than Gardner, are individuals qualifying as individuals who are “in a category that is highly regarded by the general public and not by many serious intelligence researchers”? 

Williams: The first who comes to mind is Robert Sternberg. His triarchic theory was shredded by Linda Gottfredson and is not something other researchers have accepted. He has been criticized for grossly over citing his own work. In general, the public has embraced such things as emotional intelligence, grit, mindset, and other tabloid worthy inventions. In his book, In the Know: 35 Myths about Human Intelligence, Russell Warne goes through his list of things that the public loves to love but which are not science. I think the single most disliked person (from the perspective of researchers) is the late Stephen Jay Gould. His book, The Mismeasure of Man was an intentional distortion of facts and is loved by the public because politically left people wanted to hear his false message. He attacked g and other factors, such as brain size, using outrageous comparisons to what researchers were doing in the distant past. It was almost as extreme as claiming that chemistry is worthless because alchemists were unsuccessful. 

Jacobsen: Who are the most serious researchers and commentators on genius, on IQ, and on the g factor? I take those as three related, but separate, questions in one. 

Williams: Genius – Jensen wrote a good piece on genius in the last chapter of Intellectual Talent: Psychometric and Social Issues by Camilla Persson Benbow & David Lubinski; The Johns Hopkins University Press (January 22, 1997). Dean Keith Simonton has written numerous articles on genius. His work impresses me as biased and inaccurate. Eysenck wrote about genius and the personalities of genius. Some of this can be found in H. Nyborg, Editor, The Scientific Study of Human Nature: a Tribute to Hans J. Eysenck at Eighty, Pergamon, Oxford (1997). Eysenck believed that true genius required elevated neuroticism and psychoticism. Overall, the material we have about genius is based on observations of various eminent historical figures. Statistical studies are not seen because there is no satisfactory way to find and test a statistically meaningful group of such rare people. 

IQ – The most prolific and brilliant commentator on intelligence was Arthur Jensen. His lifetime output of 7 books and over 400 papers is huge and remains influential. I think that Richard Haier is probably the most important living commentator. With only 1 book and one DVD lecture set, he is nonetheless a major factor in our understanding of IQ from the neurological perspective. While

Charles Murray is accurately described as an author, he is one of the most knowledgeable intelligence scholars alive. Like Jensen, he has been willing to take the heat from the left and calmly discuss the realities of IQ. Ian Deary has been a high profile researcher and department head. Two young researchers have shown themselves to be bright, competent, and broadly focused. Michael Woodley has authored or co-authored half a dozen books, covering a wide range of topics. His work has been at the forefront of new understandings of such topics as the Flynn Effect and the decline of intelligence. Like Woodley, Stuart Ritchie has rapidly become a serious contributor to the understanding of intelligence. I have read his books and find that his writing style is particularly appealing. His most recent book, Science Fictions, is a detailed account of abuses of the scientific process of doing research and reporting it. 

Psychometric g – Jensen almost single-handedly convinced researchers worldwide that intelligence is about g and that their work should be focused on g. His book The g factor: The science of mental ability is the most cited in all of intelligence research. Linda Gottfredson has been a prolific writer of g related papers and articles. She has devoted much of her energy to explaining g and its consequences to non-experts and has made her entire output available to the public on her web site. Today, intelligence research is g research, so it is fair to say that we have lots of people writing about g and studying how it relates to the neurology of the brain. 

References

Can creativity be measured? An attempt to clarify the notion of creativity and general directions for future research; Davide Piffer; Thinking Skills and Creativity, Volume 7, Issue 3, December 2012 

The personality and cognitive correlates of creative achievement; Davide Piffer; Open Differential Psychology April 7th, 2014. 

Shared genetic and environmental influences on self-reported creative achievement in art and science; Yoon-Mi Hur, Hoe-Uk Jeong, Davide Piffer; Personality and Individual Differences, Volume 68, October 2014, Pages 18-22.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Retired Nuclear Physicist.

[2] Individual Publication Date: September 15, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/williams-4; Full Issue Publication Date: January 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Richard May (“May-Tzu”/”MayTzu”/”Mayzi”) on “Picking One’s Own Pocket,” “Did Gurdjieff understand his own teaching?”, “What is the work?”, “Truth,” “Good and Evil,” and “Is this what the work has become?”: Co-Editor, “Noesis: The Journal of the Mega Society” (6)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/09/08

Abstract

Richard May (“May-Tzu”/“MayTzu”/“Mayzi”) is a Member of the Mega Society based on a qualifying score on the Mega Test (before 1995) prior to the compromise of the Mega Test and Co-Editor of Noesis: The Journal of the Mega Society. In self-description, May states: “Not even forgotten in the cosmic microwave background (CMB), I’m an Amish yuppie, born near the rarified regions of Laputa, then and often, above suburban Boston. I’ve done occasional consulting and frequent Sisyphean shlepping. Kafka and Munch have been my therapists and allies. Occasionally I’ve strived to descend from the mists to attain the mythic orientation known as having one’s feet upon the Earth. An ailurophile and a cerebrotonic ectomorph, I write for beings which do not, and never will, exist — writings for no one. I’ve been awarded an M.A. degree, mirabile dictu, in the humanities/philosophy, and U.S. patent for a board game of possible interest to extraterrestrials. I’m a member of the Mega Society, the Omega Society and formerly of Mensa. I’m the founder of the Exa Society, the transfinite Aleph-3 Society and of the renowned Laputans Manqué. I’m a biographee in Who’s Who in the Brane World. My interests include the realization of the idea of humans as incomplete beings with the capacity to complete their own evolution by effecting a change in their being and consciousness. In a moment of presence to myself in inner silence, when I see Richard May’s non-being, ‘I’ am. You can meet me if you go to an empty room.” Some other resources include Stains Upon the Silence: something for no one, McGinnis Genealogy of Crown Point, New York: Hiram Porter McGinnis, Swines List, Solipsist Soliloquies, Board Game, Lulu blog, Memoir of a Non-Irish Non-Jew, and May-Tzu’s posterous. He discusses: “Picking One’s Own Pocket”; “Did Gurdjieff understand his own teaching?”; “What is the work?”; “Truth”; the meaning of truth in “Truth”; “Good and Evil”; so few being awake; “Is this what the work has become?”; the work, and play; identification with the work; identification with the work considered sleeping rather than waking; and Gurdjieff and Wittgenstein. 

Keywords: Blavatsky, Gurdjieff, Ouspenky, Richard May, the work, Wittgenstein.

Conversation with Richard May (“May-Tzu”/”MayTzu”/”Mayzi”) on “Picking One’s Own Pocket,” “Did Gurdjieff understand his own teaching?”, “What is the work?”, “Truth,” “Good and Evil,” and “Is this what the work has become?”: Co-Editor, “Noesis: The Journal of the Mega Society” (6)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: “Picking One’s Own Pocket” describes a context in which the truth, to an individual, gets posed as forever-incomplete, while the truth, itself, can be complete. How is this playing off the poly-agnosticism regarding different levels of knowledge in other braindroppings in Something for No One?

Richard May[1],[2]*: To me picking one’s own pocket meant simply that one cannot abrogate one’s own authority in choosing what or whom to believe, if anyone. It’s your judgement.

Jacobsen: “Did Gurdjieff understand his own teaching?” posits, based on Blavatsky’s and Gurdjieff’s overlap in writings, Gurdjieff taking from other sourcing without full knowledge of the implications of the knowledge or parts of the systems lifted from other sources. Who was Gurdjieff? Why was he important? Is he well-regarded in general or more as a fringe loon, or a excommunicated enlightened figure found, more or less, in obscurity? Same questions on Blavatsky, too, please. (These are not Zen koans.)

May: There are hundreds of books on the topic of who Gurdjieff was. No one knows who Gurdjieff was.

Gurdjieff was important only to his pupils.

He is generally regarded as a obscure fringe loon, as you suggest, except by his pupils, and Blavatsky could only aspire to be regarded as a fringe loon.

Jacobsen: “What is the work?” describes a stick with two ends, but inverts North American Judeo-Christian theological foundations. How does the devil lead to paradise and God to hell?

May: The devil may lead to paradise and God lead to hell? I do not know that there is a devil or a God. This is something Gurdjieff seemed to claim. But Gurdjieff said can lead to paradise, not does lead with certainty.

Jacobsen: “Truth” describes the where the lies of truth lie. Side questions, what was the importance of Ouspensky? What is the importance of Blavatsky? What was the importance of Gurdjieff? Because… they seem neither well-known nor well-understood.

May: Ouspensky is generally regarded as Gurdjieff’s most important pupil. Otherwise Ouspensky had no importance. Ouspensky wrote coherent English. Blavatsky and Gurdjieff had no importance except to their pupils. Blavatsky and Gurdjieff were neither well-known nor well-understood.

Jacobsen: What is “truth,” in that sense,” as stated in “Truth”? What is truth and falsehood in that sense? What does this state about human nature with defilement of truth as necessary for truth to come forth and be heard properly?

May: Gurdjieff seemed to be saying that humans as they were could not understand truth. Truth could only be understood by most humans if presented as a lie.

Jacobsen: “Good and Evil” explains the nature of good and evil as first requiring a realization of them. How do good and evil only exist for a few?

May: That good and evil only exist for a few was a claim made by Gurdjieff. I don’t know how this is true, or if the claim even has any meaning.

Jacobsen: Why are so few awake? What is “awake” in this sense? Is it akin to enlightenment in some philosophies of Buddhism?

May: Why are so few awake? What is the biological utility in an evolutionary context of awakening? Maybe awakening has no biological utility. I think awake may be equivalent to enlightenment in some Buddhist philosophical schools. But I may be incorrect.

Jacobsen: “Is this what the work has become?” talks about the work. First, what is the work?

May: The work is Gurdjieff’s system for awakening humans from the condition of being what he called sleeping machines or unconscious automata.

Jacobsen: Second, why does it have to be work? Why not play?

May: Referring to Gurdjieff’s system as work rather than play suggests that it may be difficult to awaken. But I did not choose the terminology of work or play. Supposedly the sheep in the folk tale of the magician illustrate the illusions of hypnotic sleep.

Jacobsen: The magician sounds sadistic and cruel. What is the identification with the work?

May: Supposedly the sheep in the folk tale of the magician illustrate the illusions of hypnotic sleep.

Jacobsen: How is this identification with the work considered sleeping rather than waking?

May: Identification in any form is considered to be sleep.

Jacobsen: Is the act of identifying the work akin to the universe seeing its own back, so as to mess with the still waters of the awakened — so to speak? By act of observation, the work is broken. One is no longer awake but asleep with an even deeper illusion.

May: I don’t understand your question regarding “the universe seeing its own back.”

Gurdjieff may have taught that one could sometimes awaken if only for a moment.

Ludwig Wittgenstein also noted this changing quality of human attention. He wrote that we may occasionally awaken for a moment sufficiently to realize that we have been asleep and dreaming.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Co-Editor, “Noesis: The Journal of the Mega Society.”

[2] Individual Publication Date: September 8, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/may-6; Full Issue Publication Date: January 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Free of Charge 10 – Theology Transcending Into Nothing, Various Privileges, and Points of Education

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/09/01

Abstract

Dr. Herb Silverman is the Founder of the Secular Coalition for America, the Founder of the Secular Humanists of the Lowcountry, and the Founder of the Atheist/Humanist Alliance student group at the College of Charleston. He authored Complex variables (1975), Candidate Without a Prayer: An Autobiography of a Jewish Atheist in the Bible Belt (2012) and An Atheist Stranger in a Strange Religious Land: Selected Writings from the Bible Belt (2017). He co-authored The Fundamentals of Extremism: The Christian Right in America (2003) with Kimberley Blaker and Edward S. Buckner, Complex Variables with Applications (2007) with Saminathan Ponnusamy, and Short Reflections on Secularism (2019), Short Reflections on American Secularism’s History and Philosophy (2020), and Short Reflections on Age and Youth (2020). He discusses: theology; supernaturalism; “rational analysis”; maximization of happiness; an afterlife; agency of non-human animals; belief in God and fear of death; white privilege and White Christian Nationalism; white privilege, considerations; false rumours and wishful thinking; development of a humanistic outlook; American soft power waning; climate change; education in logic; Christian and private religious schools; and modern sex education.

Keywords: America, Christianity, ethics, Herb Silverman, Humanism, logic, morality, non-human animals, religious belief, sex education, supernaturalism, theology, Utilitarianism, White Christian Nationalism.

Free of Charge 10 – Theology Transcending Into Nothing, Various Privileges, and Points of Education

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Is theology a dead field, at this point? I mean in the sense of ethics connected directly to reality, so the natural sciences, and morality grounded in human concern. What is the point of theology at this point if any? Thousands of Th.D.s, presumably, or some ridiculously high number, must be published annually on the subject matter. To me, it looks as if an entirely farcical endeavour and an enormous waste of human time and talent. Smart people seemingly wasting their lives in fruitless considerations of the attributions of those objects so transcendental that they’ve transcended into nothingness.

Dr. Herb Silverman: I’m not opposed to theology if done right. Theology, to me, is the study of religious belief. I think it’s important to learn about religious and god beliefs that have influenced our culture. Theology is often taught in academic religious studies programs. Learning about different theologies that sound ridiculous to some students often makes them think about the religion in which they were raised, and why it might sound ridiculous to an outsider. It’s sometimes only a short step from thinking that their religion and god beliefs are also ridiculous. So, studying theology can create atheists.

Jacobsen: If supernatural, transcendentalist ethics can be rejected, and if theology seems like a dead field of enquiry in terms of moral truth, what would be the long-form and the short-form statement on a secular humanist Golden Rule? A comprehensive statement covering all relevant concerns mentioned before, by you.

Silverman: Supernatural ethics can certainly be rejected because we live in the natural world, and supernatural is a meaningless expression promoted by people who believe in so-called holy books. I would say a short-form statement for a secular humanist Golden Rule is that we should not treat others in ways that we would not like to be treated. This is not much different from the traditional Golden Rule as long as “others” means all other people, not just a favored tribe (as is the case with most religions). A long-form statement about universal morality requires empathy and reciprocity. We know that humans are an integral part of nature, the result of unguided evolutionary change. Humans are social animals and find meaning in relationships, so we should work on improving our relationships. We need to learn how others would like to be treated as individuals. Since ethical values are derived from human need and interest and tested by experience, we must continually discover new ways to improve secular humanism.

Jacobsen: With “rational analysis” as part of the knowledge of the world considered in the humanist ontology, what about cognitive biases? Those anthropological truths hammering away at the idea of the “rational” individual humanist who makes the “rational analysis.”

Silverman: Cognitive bias is our tendency to listen more often to information that confirms our existing beliefs. We need to be aware of cognitive biases when we try to make rational decisions. Regardless of how rational we think we are, we are all subject to confirmation bias, probably an evolutionary characteristic. Some cognitive bias might have served our hunter-gatherer ancestors well. It likely brought about faster decision-making when speed was more valuable than accuracy.

Scientists are always concerned about confirmation bias, which is why they usually test a theory by first looking for examples that would show their theory to be false. If found, they either modify the theory or discard it. When mathematicians think they have proved a theorem, before submitting it for publication they look for a counter example that would show the proposed theorem to be false.

Religious people are particularly subject to confirmation bias, believing without evidence what their “holy” books say, listening mainly to others who hold those same beliefs, and not considering all the facts in a logical and rational manner.

Many people only pay attention to information that confirms their beliefs through selected news sources and social media. This includes opinions about issues like global warming, wearing masks during a pandemic, getting vaccines, following science, and gun control. This also happens on a governmental level. Witness the confirmation bias that the leaders of the United States have had for 20 years about Afghanistan.  

Jacobsen: Why is maximization of happiness important? Is Humanism, in this sense, a branch of Utilitarian philosophy (Millian more than Benthamite)?

Silverman: Utilitarianism, as I understand it, is a philosophy that aims for the betterment of society as a whole. Where happiness applies to Humanism, I can’t improve on the quote from Robert Green Ingersoll, known as the Great Agnostic: “Happiness is the only good. The time to be happy is now. The place to be happy is here. The way to be happy is to make others so.” 

Jacobsen: Is “afterlife” an oxymoronic phrase? It’s extremely common as both a word and a sentiment. Does this word and idea modestly annoy you, too?

Silverman: I don’t know that “afterlife” is oxymoronic, since I can’t prove there isn’t one. On the other hand, I would bet my life that there is no afterlife. In fact, I am doing so. Since we don’t delude ourselves into thinking we will have an afterlife, we ought to decide what we want to accomplish in this, our one and only life. I am comforted in knowing that I can contribute something useful in the world. Sometimes our choices and their repercussions live longer than we do, impacting on family, friends, people we don’t know, and future generations. 

Jacobsen: If human beings have agency, and if non-human animals have a modicum of agency relative to human beings, should the meaning in life of other evolved critters be respected, too?

Silverman: Of course, we should show respect for other evolved critters, besides humans. That’s why I’m a vegan (except for ice cream). After all, humans are just fish plus time. 

Jacobsen: Is the belief in God based on a fear of death, generally? In my interview with the late James Randi, he considered this core to the whole enterprise of globally held falsehoods from religions and New Age beliefs (what he, in a neologism, termed “Newage”)?

Silverman: I think belief in God is largely, but not totally, based on a fear of death. Some people want to believe they will somehow go on after they die. God is an easy, though false, answer for them. Humans are pattern-seeking animals who like to know answers. When ignorant of why something occurs, some say “God did it,” which is known as the “God of the gaps.”  Of course science often comes up with real explanations, so the gap keeps shrinking. 

Jacobsen: Why is white privilege so tied up with Christian Nationalism in the United States now? 

Silverman: If I were to give a two-word answer, it would be “Donald Trump.” Despite Trump’s unchristian behavior and comments, white evangelicals voted overwhelmingly for him and still support him. The “white” component is partly about stopping immigration of non-whites. White Christian Nationalists would like to return to the days when whites could easily and more legally discriminate against those of a different race and those who were not Christian. That is what they mean when they say, “Make America Great Again.”

Jacobsen: What parts of white privilege seem legitimate and illegitimate in the various presentations of it?

Silverman: It’s hard to come up with a legitimate part of while privilege, other than to say we should not blame all whites for discrimination against non-whites. I don’t favor reparation to all African-Americans regardless of status, but I do favor affirmative action programs and helping those who were deprived of a decent education. We should put more public money and quality teachers into poor schools, many of which are predominately African-American. 

Jacobsen: In either false rumors or wishful thinking, are the same mental mechanisms at play?

Silverman: I see some difference in that people can often show rumors to be false by providing contrary evidence. Wishful thinking might simply be hoping for a best possible outcome in a situation. It can also be holding to a belief, like in a god or an afterlife, that can’t be disproven.

Jacobsen: In personal experience, or based on research into it, what factors seem the most important in the development of a humanistic mentality and outlook on life, earlier in life rather than later? I am only part of the community for the last few years, very few in fact, but I have interviewed and talked to a lot of people, happily. I’m far more impressed with the secular humanist community than most others, while the non-theistic Satanists seem to do the best at provocative and creative sociopolitical commentary through protest. 

Silverman: I think encouraging young people to think for themselves and search for evidence to support their beliefs goes a long way leading them to secular humanism. Explaining why you accept a rational, evidence-based humanist philosophy that is guided by reason and inspired by compassion should be part of their upbringing. Though not everyone is comfortable with the name, I personally like the Satanic Temple, whose members are atheists and have no belief in Satan. They picked a catchy name to piss off the religious right and to protest against those who  try to use the government to support religion. 

Jacobsen: Is American soft power waning? Does this threaten the promise of increases in global democracy? I ask because America, in spite of ridiculous antics and interior flaws, represented an ideal of a largely free state of affairs for citizens in a democratic country in contrast to so many other countries. 

Silverman: I hope we can get to the post-Trump America, where we support human right and democracy at home and abroad, and no longer support autocrats elsewhere. That’s how we can make America great again.

Jacobsen: With climate change as another sword of Damocles to global society, what are the democratic alternatives to this state of affairs? What is being done? How can humanists cast their vote to edge the world towards constraining the runaway effects of greenhouse gases this late in the game? Many in the younger generations may not know old age because many in the younger generations may die before old age might happen for them, due to direct and derivative effects of climate change. 

Silverman: This is not easy to answer. Humanists follow the science about climate change and work with other groups, humanist or not, to try to lessen the effects of climate change. I hope we have not reached the point of no return on planet Earth.

Jacobsen: Why focus on an education in logic for students?

Silverman: Learning logic is a way for students to see fallacies constructed by others, and how to create a solid argument for a position.

Jacobsen: Why have private Christian and religious schools rejected or warped the correct teaching of the theory of evolution in their classrooms? How does this hobble students with an interest in learning biology and medicine, or in simply having an accurate idea as to the origins and development of life?

Silverman: A lot of religious schools reject the theory of evolution because it conflicts with their holy books. Students in these schools who are interested in science need to learn about evolution, perhaps by talking to someone who understands that evolution is an essential component of science or by reading legitimate science books on their own.

Jacobsen: Side note, with a rejection of the teaching of modern sex education, and with the known consequences to the life outcomes of more students on average in the negative, is this another example of the high negative cost of religion in public life?

Silverman: Yes. Schools that reject the teaching of modern sex education usually have an inordinate number of teen pregnancies.

Jacobsen: Thank you for the opportunity and your time, Dr. Silverman.

Appendix I: Footnotes

 [1] Founder, Secular Coalition for America; Founder, Secular Humanists of the Low Country; Founder, Atheist/Humanist Alliance, College of Charleston.

[2] Individual Publication Date: September 1, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/free-of-charge-10; Full Issue Publication Date: January 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Prime Minister Salih Hudayar on Human Rights and In-Depth Interviews: Prime Minister, East Turkistan – Government-in-Exile (7)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/09/01

Abstract

PM Salih Hudayar is the Prime Minister of East Turkistan (Government-in-Exile) and the Founder of the East Turkistan National Awakening Movement. He discusses: human rights abuse; and in-depth interviews.

Keywords: China, Chinese, colonialism, government-in-exile, Prime Minister, Salih Hudayar, Turks, Uyghurs.

Conversation with Prime Minister Salih Hudayar on Human Rights and In-Depth Interviews: Prime Minister, East Turkistan – Government-in-Exile (7)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

*Interview conducted October 20, 2020.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Do you think these human rights abuses and extreme levels of corruption and colonization can continue indefinitely or will there simply be a temporary phase in those efforts of the Chinese government?

Salih Hudayar: So, it won’t continue indefinitely because either they’re going to wipe us out. At that point, after they wiped us out they would have achieved their objective. It’s going to continue until they reach that objective or until we get our independence which is the only two ways to see this. This is not just specific to that; most people don’t know about East Turkistan and our struggle. They think that “Oh, it’s just the Communist Party.” No, it’s just the issue of the Communist Party. Before the Communist Party came in, we were actually fighting against the National Republic of China. We had defeated them. The Chinese, the communists, they’re like, “Hey, let’s align together to fight against the nationalists.”

And we’re like, no, thank you. our leaders, the initial leaders who died in the plane crash were like, no, thank you. The other one due to Soviet pressure, were forced to signed up by their treaty, which ultimately brought us to this day to being wiped out. Even before that, like before the Republic of China even the Chinese imperial dynasties, they always wanted to occupy East Turkistan. In fact, our issue why China said it’s a part of China since the ancient time is because during the Han dynasty nearly two thousand years ago, over two thousand years ago, to control the Silk Road, the ancient Silk Road, because much like today, the ancient Silk Road is what is most connecting China to the Central Asia and to the Middle East and ultimately to Europe.

And so the Han dynasty, they sent ten military expeditions to try to take over East Turkistan and failed, except only they were able to briefly occupy the area. China like the U-9 area which actually has been incorporated into China out of the East Turkistan for about seven decades. So using that because they were able to briefly occupy this for seven decades, 2,000 years ago, China’s claim that East Turkistan is part of China since ancient times. If you don’t be like seeing it, if Greek, for example, Alexander the Great, he’s Greek Macedonian. It’s like saying the Greeks are claiming Afghanistan, parts of northern India and Iran as part of Greece since ancient times. If we’re going to go that way, or even the Romans, they ruled Egypt for over 600 years. But you don’t see Italy coming out and saying that Egypt used to be a part of Rome, of Italy since ancient times.

So for us, there’s only two solutions. There’s only one solution for us. But getting back to your question, to when will the colonization end, what about the genocide and the concentration camps. It’ll end when they have either achieved their ultimate goal of wiping us out and colonizing, fully colonizing East Turkistan to where we are actually a minority like Native Americans or others to where we won’t have posed a threat. There won’t be a threat even if we push for independence. But if you have one percent of the population and you try to push for independence, no one one’s going to take that seriously. It’ll be like, whatever – have your little reservation and go dancing to your music type of thing.

And the other solution, which is a solution that we desire, we will never give up on this independence. That’s when we can truly end this. After that, we can reconcile with them. We can recompile the meeting they remain in China, we remain in East Turkistan. We improve diplomatic relations just the way Israel through diplomatic relations with Germany on the basis that Germany accepted that like under the Nazis committed a genocide and paid reparations.

Jacobsen: Prime Minister, I’m just being mindful of time. So, I like to ask you one last question. Any thoughts or feelings in conclusion based on the conversation today?

Hudayar: Yes. Firstly, I want to thank you for taking the time to do this in-depth interview. I think if we had more in-depth interviews like this, I think the world would be able to understand what was really going on. The issue of East Turkistan, it’s not just a human rights issue. We have to look at the roots of the problem. Why is this genocide happening? Why are these people being sent to a concentration camp? Why are they being used as forced labor? Why are they being sterilized? Why are they trying to colonize? We have to look at the root of the problem. The root is that we were an independent nation that was invaded militarily and occupied. That’s an illegal invasion. We didn’t provoke China to do anything. We were minding our own business. They just came in and took over our country. It’s colonialism in the 21st century.

China is trying to colonize our country to achieve its geopolitical agenda, achieving its Chinese dream. this is something that the world needs to understand if they really want to help address our issue. The U.N., for example, has a declaration on granting independence to colonized people’s, countries and peoples. We still uphold that. Because we through that, we can get our independence through international law. Under international law, under that declaration, we have the right to independence. This is something no one can deny. Ultimately to seek a solution to this problem, people need to know why this problem is happening. Because if we don’t know why it’s happening. If we just think that, “Oh, there’s just locking up.” We go into concentration camps, starting in 2016 or 2017. We don’t look at the historical aspects. We’re not going to achieve any meaningful resolution to this problem.

Jacobsen: Thank you very much for your time today. I appreciate it.

Hudayar: Thank you so much. You have a wonderful day.

Jacobsen: Take care. You too. Bye-bye.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Prime Minister, East Turkistan (Government-in-Exile); Founder, East Turkistan National Awakening Movement (ETNAM).

[2] Individual Publication Date: August 22, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/hudayar-7; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Free of Charge 9 – All Things Ethical

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/08/15

Abstract

Dr. Herb Silverman is the Founder of the Secular Coalition for America, the Founder of the Secular Humanists of the Lowcountry, and the Founder of the Atheist/Humanist Alliance student group at the College of Charleston. He authored Complex variables (1975), Candidate Without a Prayer: An Autobiography of a Jewish Atheist in the Bible Belt (2012) and An Atheist Stranger in a Strange Religious Land: Selected Writings from the Bible Belt (2017). He co-authored The Fundamentals of Extremism: The Christian Right in America (2003) with Kimberley Blaker and Edward S. Buckner, Complex Variables with Applications (2007) with Saminathan Ponnusamy, and Short Reflections on Secularism (2019), Short Reflections on American Secularism’s History and Philosophy (2020), and Short Reflections on Age and Youth (2020). He discusses: current existential risks; the humanist orientation on life; pragmatic side of the humanist ethos; a complete rejection of the existence of gods; no regard for the tenets of Christianity; understanding human behaviour; the existential risks to the American republic; the Universal Declaration of Human Rights; the American educational curricula; make American education more humanistic; Republicans working to restrict African Americans from full voting rights and privileges; and a refined universalist morality.

Keywords: America, Christianity, ethics, Golden Rule, Herb Silverman, Humanism, morality.

Free of Charge 9 – All Things Ethical

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: You made some great points about all religions, as an argument posed for the Golden Rule, having the same fundamental moral theoretic structure. They have the Golden Rule; therefore, they have the same moral philosophical base. Similarly, you stated, “And a version of this can also be found in almost every ethical tradition, with no gods necessary.” In other words, the Golden Rule exists pervasively and human beings use it, and build systems of moral philosophy on it. It can become tricky, as when the definition of the in-group leads to the Golden Rule only applying to one’s narrow ethnic and/or religious group. What can be the application of a humanist ethical orientation on the Golden Rule on current existential risks, globally? In short, how is humanist ethics, here, universal and universally applicable compared to parochial religious ethics?

Dr. Herb Silverman[1],[2]: The Golden Rule can mean different things to different people. Typically we think of it as treating others as we would like to be treated. Alternatively, it says do not treat others in ways that you would not like to be treated. One problem comes with the definition of “others.” Sometimes it means only how we treat others within a certain religion. A religion might require treating “infidels” with disdain, or worse. Treating others as we want to be treated might also involve trying to convert others to the religion of the believer. Many people don’t want to be treated as some people treat themselves. Universal human ethics has nothing to do with parochial religious beliefs. It requires empathy and reciprocity. We should try to find out how different people would like to be treated and try to treat them that way as long as such treatment doesn’t cause harm to them or to others.

Jacobsen: You described a shorthand of the humanist orientation on life. Also, as a side comment, you mentioned a progressive philosophy of life without a laundry list. Is a “laundry list” a bad idea? Simply for the fact, for any example or limited rule, you can find a counterexample to the example or the rule, because life is complex and, often, superficially contradictory. 

Silverman: A laundry list is not necessarily a bad idea, depending on what we mean by such a list. Regarding humanism, we say that knowledge of the world is derived by observation, experimentation, and rational analysis; that humans are an integral part of nature, the result of unguided evolutionary change; that humans are social by nature and find meaning in relationships; that working to benefit society maximizes individual happiness; that we are guided by reason and inspired by compassion, and so on. If this is a laundry list, so be it. On the other hand, we assert that ethical values are derived from human need and interest as tested by experience. This means we continually learn new ways to improve humanism.

Jacobsen: What about individuals who say, “I don’t care,” as in they do not care about others or appear unable to feel compassion? Where do these individuals fit into the pragmatic side of the humanist ethos?

Silverman: We can try to describe how showing compassion toward others can make you feel better about yourself. Failing to succeed, pragmatically we should try to keep such people (perhaps some of them psychopaths) from hurting others.

Jacobsen: Why can’t some individuals stomach a complete rejection of the existence of gods? What reasons have come forward for you?

Silverman: I’m sometimes asked how I can go on living without a belief in God. Such people often believe that the purpose of this life is to prepare for an afterlife. They see no other purpose for human life. Such god belief might be how they overcome their fear of death. There may be no purpose OF life, but humans can and should find many purposes IN life. We have only one life to live, and we should make the best of it.

Jacobsen: Individuals in the United States, White Christian Nationalists, want, in their dying demographic gasp, a complete control of the American republic without regard, or much, for freethinkers and other non-Christian religious Americans. Why? 

Silverman: It’s even stranger. Many White Christian Nationalists in the United States seem to have no regard for the tenets of Christianity. They appear to be worshiping Donald Trump, rather than Jesus. They applauded attacks by Trump on non-white immigrants, African-Americans, women, gun control, science, climate change, and other social justice issues. They seem mostly engaged with anti-abortion, about which Jesus said nothing. They hearken to the days of white privilege when they could discriminate against those of a different race and those who had non-Christian religious beliefs or no religious beliefs. They would like to turn America into their version of a Christian nation, not the secular nation we are. The good news is that many Americans are turning away from their fundamentalist religion, especially younger people, because of political stances that White Christian Nationalists have taken on. They include issues like women’s rights, abortion, immigration, LGBTQ, and other social justice issues, not to mention pedophilia. Some former or present Christians now believe that our humanist positions are more consistent with the message of Jesus than with the message of White Christian Nationalists.

Jacobsen: Furthermore, in that light, why do, indeed, ideas matter, fundamentally, to understanding human behaviour? As the brain is not a black box, but consciousness or an individual mind can appear as if a black box – so probably is, we can only peer at the outward behaviours and the descriptions of inner experience described by an individual. 

Silverman: Human behavior is often irrational, so understanding it is not easy. It might be based on false rumors (think QAnon) or on wishful thinking (think religion). To understand an individual’s behavior, we should communicate with that individual and learn what motivated the behavior. Even then, the individual might lie or make something up. For instance, parents can say how much they love their children, yet beat them and not mind that the child is suffering. To understand present behavior, it helps to know the past history of the individual.

Jacobsen: What are the existential risks to the American republic now? How are these existential risks for global society, given declining American semi-hegemony?

Silverman: The greatest existential risk to the American republic is also the greatest existential risk to the global society—climate change caused by humans and the need to address this danger. Fortunately nations are listening to the dire scientific predictions and coming together to cooperate with the United Nations on landmarks like the Paris Agreement and the Climate Action Summit. A national risk to Americans was the attack on our democracy on January 6, with the storming of the Capitol building by Trump supporters. Those riots for the first time made me worry about what we need to do to keep our democracy. Another serious concern is that America sometimes supports authoritarian leaders for economic gain instead of pushing for human rights.

Jacobsen: In the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, you mentioned an important and oft-overlooked part – skimmed: “nationality, place of residence, gender, national or ethnic origin, colour, or religion.” If looking to a possibly more humanist future, would you add anything into it, in spite of its strengths?

Silverman: We should take all these into account for human rights. When I spoke of “gender,” I didn’t know all the implications. I would include transgender, but hadn’t before heard of gender fluid, bi-gender, and other terminology. Of course, regardless of a person’s pronoun, we should treat everyone with respect.

Jacobsen: What has been excluded from the American educational curricula? Those courses necessary for a more educated populace and necessary for a functioning democracy. 

Silverman: I think too much time is spent trying to instill symbolic patriotism, and not enough time spent talking about some of our faults. This is incorporated in what is called “critical race theory,” which does not denigrate whites but talks about what privileges we have had over the years, and what we might do now to help those who weren’t born with such privileges. People should better understand our real history, including the meaning of our godless Constitution. We should teach people how to think, not what to think. I would like to see critical thinking become part of our national curriculum, including a mandatory course on logic.

Jacobsen: What would make American education more humanistic? I read complaints about vouchers, private religious school financial and other privileges, and discrimination in hiring against atheists and others in America, as examples of issues on some fault lines. It’s unfortunate. 

Silverman: Unfortunately, some private religious schools don’t have to teach topics that every educated person should know, like the theory of evolution. Some of these schools rely on indoctrination rather than education. Conservative Christians are influencing many school districts by introducing legislation to bring back school-sponsored prayers and demand that sex education classes in public schools teach “abstinence only,” instead of preparing teens to avoid pregnancy and disease. Some religious schools often incorrectly get to use some of our public tax dollars to support them through vouchers and other ways.

I like what one of our founders, Ben Franklin, said: “When a religion is good, I conceive that it will support itself; and, when it cannot support itself, and God does not take care to support it, so that its professors are obliged to call for help of the Civil Power, it is a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one.

Jacobsen: The natural question: Why are Republicans working to restrict African Americans from full voting rights and privileges (e.g., easier, reasonable access)?

Silverman: This is an easy question to answer. Most African-Americans vote for candidates from the Democratic party. Of course, the right thing to do would be to make it easy for them to vote their conscience. Unfortunately, Republican politicians these days rarely seem to do the right thing. Their only interest seems to be to get elected and re-elected.

Jacobsen: If we can learn to become more accurate in ethical decisions through an approximation of objective morality through a refined universalist morality, is ethical truth, or are morally correct choices, a natural feature of the natural world if evolved critters are roaming around in it, whether or not they have the mental capacity to know and decide at a sufficiently advanced level? In short, are universalist (approximating objective) ethical truths a derivative feature of universes with evolved or engineered minds? That is, if no beings in a universe, then no ethics in a universe; if beings, then inevitably ethics. 

Silverman: Many people used to equate the Bible with objective morality, but not so much anymore. Throughout history, the Bible has been quoted to justify slavery, second-class status for women, anti-Semitism, executing blasphemers and homosexuals, and burning witches and heretics. Some actions deemed moral 2000 years ago are considered immoral today. Morality evolves over time as our understanding of human needs within a culture changes. Even those who believe in biblical inerrancy interpret some passages in a different way today than in centuries past, in a manner more consistent with many humanist principles. We make judgments about which portions of a sacred text to take literally, which to take metaphorically, and which to ignore completely. We may never reach what we consider objective morality, but we are a lot closer to it than in past centuries.

Jacobsen: Thank you for the opportunity and your time, Dr. Silverman. 

Silverman: Thank you.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Founder, Secular Coalition for America;Founder, Secular Humanists of the Low Country; Founder, Atheist/Humanist Alliance, College of Charleston.

[2] Individual Publication Date: August 15, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/free-of-charge-9; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Prime Minister Salih Hudayar on Economic Concerns and Human Rights: Prime Minister, East Turkistan – Government-in-Exile (6)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/08/08

Abstract

PM Salih Hudayar is the Prime Minister of East Turkistan (Government-in-Exile) and the Founder of the East Turkistan National Awakening Movement. He discusses: concentration camps and labor camps; the U.N. Human Rights Council; and economic concerns trumping human rights concerns.

Keywords: China, Chinese, concentration camps, East Turkistan, East Turkistan National Awakening Movement, human rights, government-in-exile, labor camps, Prime Minister, Salih Hudayar, Uyghurs.

Conversation with Prime Minister Salih Hudayar on Economic Concerns and Human Rights: Prime Minister, East Turkistan – Government-in-Exile (6)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

*Interview conducted October 20, 2020.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: There’s also violations in terms of labor right, alongside these concentration camps and prisons or labor camps. So, two questions follow from that observation. One, how are these prisons, concentration camps and labor camps being documented? And two, what is the extent of the forced labor in the labor camps?

Salih Hudayar[1],[2]: So as far as the first question, in terms of documentation, as far as like the concentration camps and the prisons and the labor camps, the East Turkistan National Awakening Movement, we were the first organization to really put out actual coordinates of these facilities. Back in 2018, and then again once more in 2019, it’s only recently this past, about last month actually, that BuzzFeed and ASPI reproduced the maps that we created with the coordinates. They said that they discovered four hundred something facilities, such facilities. It’s like the same thing. We put it out in open source. We put it out on our Web site to wherever people can push.

And we tried to get the media to cover it. But most of the media, because we insist that they use the term East Turkistan, at least; we weren’t opposed to them saying some other terms, but we insisted that they, at least, get this right with the Uyghurs calling it East Turkistan. So, there are organizations like the ASPI, other organizations; that are doing the research to look at it as well. As far as like the labor camps and the slave labor, the Chinese government’s own propaganda. Their own ads that they put up online.

We located 600 people work in this industrial facility. So, they’re going to get “job training.” That’s what they call it, “Job training.” But it’s like, “Okay, nice way of saying, ‘We’re going to send them to the forced labor camp.’” Many of these people are not getting any salaries. Many of these people don’t even want to leave their hometowns to work in other places. While, at the same time, they’re being replaced by Chinese settlers. Chinese settlers are being given homes, cash, and even a Uyghur or Turkic wife for the man and 6 to 12 acres of land, while we are being dispossessed and being used as slave labor.

ASPI, there is a lot of research and documented real companies. For example, these facilities, they discovered which company was actually running it and how those companies sold their good to Western companies. For example, they documented over 80 different popular global brands complicit in the use of forced to slave labor. In addition to that, we have videos of thousands of young men and women, hundreds of videos of being boarded up, trains being boarded up. People being bussed out to work. Then you have videos of elderly people and women that are left working in labor, building roads, building ditches, irrigation canals, stuff like that.

You have like a very elderly woman, a grandmother, trying to push a wheelbarrow. The worst, the best is you see the Chinese security forces right next to you, right back in that video.

Jacobsen: Recently, there was a press release put out in response to the appointment or election of China to the U.N. Human Rights Council. What has been the reaction of some of the international community to this? What has been a particular response from you?

Hudayar: So other than the U.S. State Secretary, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, you haven’t really had the international community or governments issuing statements or anything of that sort. You have human rights organizations all expressing their disapproval or condemnation or fear. But that’s just been about it. Few media outlets have reported on it. But other than that, there hasn’t been much opposition.

Jacobsen: Why?

Hudayar: Well, China seems to have used this economic and political influence to get those countries in the U.N. to vote for it. It is corruption and a lot of countries, most of these newspapers, the media, they’re owned by wealthy people at the top level. People who have business interests in China. They don’t want to disrupt those business interests in China by writing, by having published an article about some disapproval of government checks of disapproval of China’s membership to the U.N. But a government, they don’t want to upset China. They still want to continue working with China.

Even though, most of the world knows that China is engaging in a genocide. They feel that, “Oh, what can we do. If we express comments on it, we will lose disrupt our relations with them. We won’t be able to get loans. We won’t be able to get support from China, which is the way that most countries behave because they’re economically intertwined with China.”

Jacobsen: So in this case, is an economic concern trumping human rights concerns for most countries?

Hudayar: Yes. For most countries, it’s about economics. At the end of the day, everything, unfortunately, is about economics. The whole reason why China is engaging in the genocide is about economics. Because if they circle down with just that nothing valuable there, China is not going to waste the time and effort to occupy East Turkistan. hey colonize East Turkistan. We don’t have anything there. They would have left us alone. But we have gold; we have natural gas; we have uranium, even the wind power. We have the wind power from East Turkistan, which is what brings energy to Chinese cities inside China. Also, we’re very strategically located roughly about one fifth of China’s total territory, or what is now known as China.

And they bring nine other different countries where, the cornerstone of China’s Belt and Road Initiative, which is again, has to do with economics. It is achieve China’s global dream of becoming the most powerful economic, military, and political power in the world. We are a hindrance to their dream. That’s why China from its security perspective; it’s carrying out this final solution to prevent us from getting our independence.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Prime Minister, East Turkistan (Government-in-Exile); Founder, East Turkistan National Awakening Movement (ETNAM).

[2] Individual Publication Date: August 8, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/hudayar-6; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Prime Minister Salih Hudayar on Colonialism, Terminology, and the Media: Prime Minister, East Turkistan – Government-in-Exile (5)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/08/01

Abstract

PM Salih Hudayar is the Prime Minister of East Turkistan (Government-in-Exile) and the Founder of the East Turkistan National Awakening Movement. He discusses: colonialism.

Keywords: China, Chinese, colonialism, East Turkistan, government-in-exile, Prime Minister, Salih Hudayar, Uyghurs.

Conversation with Prime Minister Salih Hudayar on Colonialism, Terminology, and the Media: Prime Minister, East Turkistan – Government-in-Exile (5)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

*Interview conducted October 20, 2020.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: When we look at some of the historical records of settler colonial societies, in particular some of the European based or enacted settler colonial societies, these include Australia, New Zealand, the United States, Canada and South Africa. These countries have come to work towards some marginal reconciliation, to some extent of reconciliation with the indigenous population. The most prominent people that come to kind of public consciousness would be people like Nelson Mandela. However, there are numerous other individuals who have worked on non-indigenous and indigenous alike towards that form of reconciliation and independence for those peoples, those ethnic and cultural groups who were colonized and then settled in East Turkistan.

This action of the Chinese government is explicitly a colonial effort. So, if the reaction of the international community is strong against historical and current settler colonialism in other societies, in terms of working towards the need towards to work towards reconciliation, why is there not necessarily silence, but a dampened response, towards this form of colonialism ongoing in East Turkistan, occupied East Turkistan?

Salih Hudayar[1],[2]: Many people are one misinformed. Because many people aren’t even aware that we were an independent country or that we were occupied. You still have the media portraying us, as I stated, as Muslims, therefore, making a change in internal affairs issues. You still have what they hear about, the Chinese, they automatically think, “Oh, it’s just a part of China.” They must have this Muslim problem, especially post 9/11. Being Muslim, they had negative complications, including the war on terror. A lot of different governments, including the Muslim governments, used the excuse of counter-terrorism to take out its opponents, some more legitimate. There are legitimate counter terrorism concerns. But others like those being done by China.

It was the much needed excuse that China needed to effectively carry out its final solution, which we are seeing at this point. By portraying us as just a bunch of Islamist terrorists, even though our movement is a national movement, even though it’s largely a secular movement, that doesn’t matter. Because when you have a majority of the population being Muslim, and you have negative perceptions on Muslims across the world, it’s the narrative. In fact, this is another issue. The Chinese prior to 2001 would never refer to Uyghurs as terrorists. Because prior to that, that term wasn’t really known or prominent, let’s say.

However, two weeks before 9/11 happened, China’s puppet the secretary, the Communist Party secretary in East Turkistan. He had a large press conference with international media. He was trying to seek international foreign investment. So, he said, ‘Everything is peaceful here. People get along very happy. There have been no acts of violence.’ Some journalists act upon the actions like other people advocating for East Turkistan. We heard that there was a republic here before. He’s like, ‘Oh, no, no, no, that’s just a few things made up by Western imperialists. There is no East Turkistan. The people here, they’re happy. Everybody’s happy, there’s no resistance of any sort.’

Then 9/11 happened. Then within 48 hours of 9/11 happening, China claimed, president at that time, that China was a victim of East Turkistani terrorism. That China supports the global war on terror. Then in November of 2001, on November 11, the day before Independence Day of November 12, China submitted a document to the UN Security Council stating that since 1990; several thousand East Turkistan terrorist attacks have occurred. They listed various different groups. All of them East Turkistani groups. The majority of them, we don’t even know existed. We’ve never heard of those names. But one of them was the East Turkistan Islamic Movement. This is the first time that it was mentioned. Before that, you can’t find any record of anything.

Whether from China, whether from others referring to the East Turkistan Islamic Movement, China claimed that it was the East Turkistan Islamic Movement. They were pushing for East Turkistan independence and that they were a terrorist organization affiliated with al-Qaida. They began to lobby the U.S., the U.N. to recognize this group as a terrorist organization. Unfortunately, the U.S., the U.N. recognized this group as a terrorist organization in 2002 and 2003, in order to get many people to think that there was a quid pro quo, in order to secure China’s support for the Iraq invasion or the war in Iraq. The way that China portrayed it in our media in East Turkistan at that time. It’s not our media, but in the Chinese media in East Turkistan, at that time, was that the US and the UN declared East Turkistan independence as a terrorist movement.

Because the acronym ETIM, East Turkistan Islamic Movement, also happens to have the same acronym as the broad East Turkistan Independence Movement; there is no organization calling itself the East Turkistan Independence Movement, but it’s a very broad term. Using that, China has been able to put out this narrative. So, there’s two reasons for this. People are informed in the worst about East Turkistan. The media, they continue to spread and to write reports on what’s happening with the human rights abuses that are in a more favorable terms in the Chinese narrative, using the Chinese narrative to write it down. Because at the end of the day, China’s biggest fear is to expand independence.

And in order to prevent that from happening, human rights abuses happen all across the world. Every country in the world, whether it’s the United States or Canada the E.U. or Japan; there will always be human rights issues. This is something that is a reality. In many cases, under international law, it’s like a so-called internal affairs issue. So, China, its biggest fear is East Turkistan as independent. So, in order to prevent that, it’s okay to have some human rights issue backlash, so long as it maintains the control. By using this influence, they have misinformed the world. To this day, that media, most of the media, not all of them, most of the media continues to label us, as, Chinese Muslims or Muslims in China or ethnic minorities almost always exclusively using the Chinese term in the new territory without even giving interpretation or translation of what that term means. So, that’s why many people are uninformed about this. I think that’s why, to get into your question; and I think that’s why we’re seeing this effort.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Prime Minister, East Turkistan (Government-in-Exile); Founder, East Turkistan National Awakening Movement (ETNAM).

[2] Individual Publication Date: August 1, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/hudayar-5; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Prime Minister Salih Hudayar on Government-in-Exile and Instilling Democratic Norms and Processes: Prime Minister, East Turkistan – Government-in-Exile (4)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/07/22

Abstract

PM Salih Hudayar is the Prime Minister of East Turkistan (Government-in-Exile) and the Founder of the East Turkistan National Awakening Movement. He discusses: governments in exile and democratic norms.  

Keywords: China, Chinese, democracy, East Turkistan, government-in-exile, Prime Minister, Salih Hudayar, Turks, UN Charter, Uyghurs.

Conversation with Prime Minister Salih Hudayar on Government-in-Exile and Instilling Democratic Norms and Processes: Prime Minister, East Turkistan – Government-in-Exile (4)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

*Interview conducted October 20, 2020.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: The United Nations recognizes 193 Member States in the world today. In regards to your election as the prime minister, the formal title includes a “Government-in-Exile.” For those who don’t know, what does it mean in regards to a government when it is in “exile”? And why this is important for the historical and ongoing contexts for East Turkistan?

Salih Hudayar[1],[2]: So, the government in exile is essentially a government which claims sovereignty over a territory and it has been forced into exile. It doesn’t see whatever is the current government there, as the legitimate government. It seeks to represent that specific country or a region as its own as the representatives. In our case in December 22nd, 1949, our former country, East Turkistan, formerly known as the East Turkistan Republic, was overthrown. This is not something that we voluntarily gave away, our independence, or voluntarily agreed to be a part of China. Because if you look at Chinese government documents from 1949 to 1954, they killed, according to Chinese state media, 150,000 enemies of China. So, obviously, our people resisted this.

To this day, we have continued to resist Chinese occupation of our country. Some of our leaders were able to escape into the Soviet Union and just general political pressures from the Soviets. They weren’t able to create an actual exile government. They were able to create a national committee, but they weren’t able to create a government in exile. Others fled into Turkey. Even there, because of political pressure, we weren’t able to engage in political advocacy. We were just there. You can’t engage in any political advocacy. You should be happy that we were here very much like that. It’s only after the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991 that we regained our hope for independence.

Not that we have never lost hope of it, it continues. We struggled for it. There are numerous historical uprisings over the past seventy years. The last armed uprising was in 1990, in April 1990 in which we had several hundred people take up arms to advocate and struggle for East Turkistan in the present. The only reason they took arms was because in that town, 200 women forcibly have their babies aborted. I saw our people tried to go to the local government buildings and shortlist grievances. So, seeing what happened in Afghanistan, a guy who was only 27 at that time, 26 years old.

He was inspired by what happened in Afghanistan. He said if he was trying to buy time. He said like if we were able to resist; maybe, we’ll get support from the international community. Maybe, they will help us. Unfortunately, the world didn’t even hear about this massive uprising until months later after the Chinese government arrested over 7,000 people in connection to this. But with the independence of the Central Asian countries, we had to advocate for our independence more openly because from 1960s up until really late, until 1990, everything had been underground. Because the Chinese, they executed a lot of leaders. In prison a lot of people, and so everything was just underground, everyone’s like, “Hey, we should do something.”

But we weren’t able to do anything because there was no real external support. But starting in the 1990s, our people started to go out of Central Asia and into Europe and out of Turkey, into Europe and into the United States. In 2004, September 14, 2004, that is when the pre-existing East Turkistan organizations like East Turkistan National Congress, East Turkistan Freedom Center and the East Turkistan revolutionary branch, the East Turkistan Committee, all these different leaders of the different East Turkistan organizations came together here in Washington, D.C. to declare the East Turkistan government in exile. Since then, we have been based in D.C. I got involved in early 2019, in April, not seeing my success raising awareness and getting the US Congress and others to move on the East Turkistan issue.

The government in exile, they reached out to me and said, “Hey, we’d like you in November 2018,” when they initially reached out to me. At that time, I politely declined because I didn’t want to be; I just wanted to be responsible for other things. Because I was able to get a lot of popular support within our own community, our diaspora getting a petition of 100,000 signatures. On a petition, it might not be a big deal for people in the way. For the rest of the world, it might not be a big deal. But for us, that’s something very difficult to do. To get a 108,000 of our people to agree on one thing and say, “Hey, I want to. I agree with this.” It is very different and it’s very difficult. Because in our diaspora, we number at maximum about a million.

And in the Central Asian countries, advocacy on East Turkistan is prohibited even in Turkey advocacy. Turkistan is limited. So, not only giving us the limited external Western diaspora community to really focus on our issue. Our petition to the White House got over a hundred and eight thousand signatures in more than one month. The only reason I made this petition was that there was a previous petition made by a different organization, human rights organization. They used the Chinese terminology for our country. They just call us human rights abusers. They referred to our people as an ethnic minority, which we are not. We don’t see ourselves as minority because we are still the majority in East Turkistan. They just asked the U.S. government to just condemn the human rights abusers.

And it came to my attention and I was being asked by our people, “Should we sign this?” And I said, “No. Because if we sign this, China’s going to use this.” Let’s say it gets 100,000 signatures and it gets into the White House. China is going to use that to go down our face and we’d be like, “It’s just a few a bunch of people that they don’t want, East Turkistan.” The leaders are happy and China. Yes, there’s a little bit human rights problems, but we can work with that. We have accepted that we were the moral minority. We would have accepted the Chinese colonial term for our country, which means we would have accepted Chinese rule. And we have absolutely have not accepted historically. But I said, “No, we need to – let me put out a different petition.”

So, I filed a petition, condemning China’s 21st century Holocaust in occupied East Turkistan. I have the same thing we’ve been pushing for sanctions on Chinese officials on the Magnitsky Act and passed the Uyghur Act, to recognize the genocide in East Turkistan. Despite the other pre-existing organization, the human rights organization is a large human rights organization. In spite of them pushing against this petition, accusing me of being a suffragist, accusing me of dividing our community, etc., at the end, our people, I told them, “You are human rights activists. How are you going to get it? How are you going to get human rights? If you don’t have a country, if you don’t have a government, if you don’t have a chance to elect your own people, how are you going to get that human right?”

Yes, there are some human rights, written on a piece of paper. Just like under Chinese law, we have human rights. Under Chinese law, we have autonomy on a piece of paper. But you need your own independence to achieve that. I made a video message with tens of thousands of views and people all across the world are in our community. They’re like, “What?” Let’s sign on their petition. So, 108,000 versus 12,700 on the WC petition. So, you get a lot more respect and support. You wonder. If I ask people to do something in our community… which I did, I said, “We need to organize demonstrations in your own country.”

Your governments, parliaments, etc., you need to engage in grassroots activism. We can’t just rely on a few organizations here and there to do it. We need to use the correct terminology. We need to emphasize that this is what our people want. By now, a majority of our population in the diaspora – I would say – prior to me coming out and creating some of this. There was about 60% or 70% who advocated, who wanted independence. But now, it’s over 95%. In fact, right now, it has gotten to the point where if you’re in the community, people ask, “Do you want independence?” You can’t even answer, “No.” Because in our community’s perception, if you answer, “No,” then there’s a problem. There’s a problem with you. Unfortunately, this is the way it has to be.

So, seeing that the government in exile wanted me to represent them because I was appearing at important events, I think the university is talking about our issue meeting with members of Congress and raising our issue, meeting with the State Department and raising our issue. So, they asked me to represent them as their ambassador to the U.S., which I didn’t accept until April of 2019. Then the government in exile, though it was created in the US and based in Washington, the leadership was still in Turkey and they were heavily under Turkey’s influence. They would make a lot of anti-Semitic and anti-Western statements. That’s because Turkey’s pressure has influenced and has been on a leash.

So I began to push back against that within our own government and then, ultimately, a parliament had to choose sides. Then I also said, “We need to get these people in the grassroots. We need to get grassroots elections done.” I tried to push for grassroots elections and tried to get them to allow to change the constitution, which would allow the people to directly vote for the president, the prime minister, and so forth. But I wasn’t able to do that. Before it was only three representatives. They can only vote three representatives in each nation. But I said, “No.” We need to do it to where they can elect ten and then have those ten decide amongst themselves and narrow it down to three.

Because we need to be democratic. We need to run it in a more democratic fashion. We have to teach our people democratic process, because I genuinely believe that we will regain our independence much closer than many people think. We have to be prepared for that. In order to be prepared for that, we have to focus on democratizing the various institutions that we have here in exile.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Prime Minister, East Turkistan (Government-in-Exile); Founder, East Turkistan National Awakening Movement (ETNAM).

[2] Individual Publication Date: July 22, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/hudayar-4; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Alisha Graves on Girls’ Education and Rights, and the Global Education Summit: Co-Founder, OASIS Initiative

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/07/22

Abstract

Alisha Graves, MPH is the Co-Founder of the OASIS Initiative. She discusses: the Sahel region; the Global Education Summit; the organizations that are getting involved; girls who lose out on the access to education earlier in life; the keynote speakers; high levels of population growth typically associated with lower rights for women and girls; fundamentalist religion; freedom of choice at all levels of life; and Oasis.

Keywords: Alisha Graves, education, girls, Global Education Summit, National Institutes of Health, OASIS Initiative.

Conversation with Alisha Graves on Girls’ Education and Rights, and the Global Education Summit: Co-Founder, OASIS Initiative

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

*Interview conducted July 21, 2021.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: So, today, we are here with Alisha Graves. We are talking about the Global Education Summit. In particular, it is focusing on girls’ education and family planning in the Sahel region. Its growth rate is among the highest in the world. This comes from a number of factors. However, with these societies that are in this region and this growth rate, what are the risk factors for girls not getting proper education? And what are the indicators of girls having that access to education? Noting, of course, that this is fundamentally a human right for all children, including girls.

Alisha Graves[1],[2]: Ok, so, related to risk factors for not staying in school, there are many. We started our work with a grant from the NIH, the National Institutes of Health here in the US to look at maternal mortality and morbidity. So, women dying from pregnancy and childbirth in northern Nigeria, which has one of the highest rates of maternal death in the world. Actually, through the really careful, ethical, logical work of a colleague of mine, Daniel Perlman, he and his research team found that early marriage and childbearing is one of the great risks of maternal death. so then, they began asking the communities, “Well, what alternatives are there to marriage and childbearing?” And they heard, over and over again, that the alternative is – in fact, the only viable alternative is – school. then they looked around and noticed that most of the girls were leaving school around the same time puberty started and in early adolescence, 12 or 14. So, they asked the families; this education was so important: Why are the girls not in school? And they found that consistently, the parents said, “The first daughters go to school, a great opportunity cost.” And they finished doing that for 6 years and barely read or write. So, it wasn’t worth sending their other daughters to school.

So that points to the importance of the quality of education. It also goes back to a question about risk factors. There are tremendous risks when girls leave school early and are more likely to be married and more likely to become pregnant. There is a tremendous risk to the girls’ health, which also precludes her from developing. The girl was taken out of school early, very early, is not really able to get a sense of self and a feeling of what she wants in life and ability to be able to express her own wishes and desires and form them in the first place and then express them to the people in their family and community.

So, it precludes girls from leading a full life and girls who marry and start bearing children early in addition to the health risks to them. Their own children are less likely to be educated. Their own children are less likely to have good nutrition. There’s just a lot of detriments at the household level when girls don’t complete school. then conversely, there are a lot of benefits when they do so, both in terms of girl’s self-expression, obviously literacy, numeracy and interest in that ability to work outside of the home. So, you can get a wage-paying job, should be more likely to be connected to social services, including health, health care and just generally more able to contribute to society and to the development of her community and her nation.

Jacobsen: What was the starting point of the Global Education Summit focus on girls’ education and family planning in the first place?

Graves: So, this summit itself is an international meeting to try to increase funding for education worldwide. It really is focused on education. Our event is a side event at the summit. We have been calling for increased funding, especially for girls’ education in the Sahel, for many years. So, we took advantage of this larger summit to offer a platform to make the case for really focusing on keeping girls in secondary school, because now, it’s happening in Africa. The country has changed a lot. The primary education rates have increased a lot over the last couple of decades. Secondary education, especially in the poorer countries of the region is still really low. So, we’re making the case that by keeping a focus or getting focused on girls’ secondary education.

There will be all of these other benefits, not just to the individual girls, but on a demographic level as well, because those girls are likely to get married and start bearing children later and they’re more able to negotiate with their partners about using family planning. They’re more likely to desire a smaller family and be able to achieve both with and through better communication with their partners, but also better access to health services, because that’s something that doesn’t come easily. so there are these regional and demographic benefits that will be reached by changing the demography of the region and in particular, changing the structure. So, we put the girls’ education and family planning together because, through family planning, the demographic benefits are achieved.

Jacobsen: So, the organizations that are getting involved here. What are some of the prominent ones that people can look forward to in terms of their becoming involved in this particular summit? And what are people hoping as some of the takeaways, what have been some of the takeaways in the past?

Graves: And so, we’re organizing this event. I am the co-founder and director of research and started as a project at the University of California, Berkeley. We’re also a nonprofit, also registered as a charitable organization in Canada. That’s the latest initiative in Canada and our partners are UC Berkeley. The partnership coordination unit, which is the Family Planning and Women’s Rights and Girls’ rights organization in West Africa. We have a partnership with the Center for Girls Education, which is a partner in northern Nigeria. It has had tremendous success keeping girls in school. They’ve shown a two-and-a-half-year increase in the age of marriage with girls who participated in the program. So, this is a partnership that we’re organizing this event. In terms of what we can hope for there, we’re really hoping to see a commitment from donors, especially donor agencies and the governments on how to increase aid and increase available programs for girls’ secondary education and for her reproductive health and rights in the West African Sahel.

Jacobsen: For girls who lose out on access to education earlier in life, what happens to them?

Graves: Everybody has a different story, but we know from surveys, demographic and health surveys and national-level surveys; we know that the less educated girls, again, are likely to marry earlier. They’re less likely to have access to health services. That includes reproductive health services, counselling. They’re less likely to have decision-making power in the household. So, that could be regarding household resources like money and making decisions about their own ability to leave home. So, this goes on in terms of how empowerment decision-making/power is correlated with education. So, importantly, there’s a virtuous circle that happens, which is that mothers always want to see their children as educated or better educated than they are. To the one, we can keep girls in school. We know that there’ll be benefits to their own children in terms of what the mom expects and can be able to navigate for her children’s education.

Jacobsen: Now, who are going to be the keynote speakers at this particular summit?

Graves: And so, I feel like I need to clarify this. Our event is a side event at the larger summit. We are an official side event, but ours is a half-day conference. Next Tuesday in the larger summit is full day, next Wednesday and Thursday, I believe, and possibly Thursday and Friday. So, I’m not sure who the keynote speakers at the Global Education Summit are. We have a few very high-profile speakers that were mentioned. One of them is Professor Nicolas Meda, who is a special advisor to the President of Burkina Faso and also a former minister of health. Another is the high commissioner to the Sahel coalition. He’s the former minister of agriculture of Chad. It’s interesting with the conference dedicated to education and training of West African women. But these are two of the most… I don’t know if they describe themselves as feminists, but I know them personally and they’re very active and in a position to influence education and rights in the region. So, we’re hoping to get a special guest, but I know it’s not confirmed and that person is a very high-profile education advocate. So, I’ll let you know if that changes in the next day or two. Another person to mention is one of the key speakers, Habiba Mohammad, who is the director of the Center for Girls Education or a partner in northern Nigeria. She, for 15 years, has been dedicated to helping to keep girls at school and really changing social norms and expectations of girls and in the state, actually. But now, we have seen ripple effects throughout northern Nigeria.

Jacobsen: Are high levels of population growth typically associated with lower rights for women and girls?

Graves: Very good question. My guess is, “Yes.” But I think the probably more careful answer would be to say that we know high rates of population growth generally correspond to an age structure that used to be very young. There is a lot of evidence that shows that a youthful age structure of the country is more associated with greater civil unrest. So, I think in the context of the Sahel, which is a very young population, the regional population is very, very young. There been as long as I’ve been paying attention to it – for about 12 years now. There’s just increasing unrest and violence. So, I think that compromises women’s and girls’ rights. It compromises the well-being of the people in the region at large. But women and girls tend to be more affected by violence in terms of their own safety, facility to move around places and so forth. So, I think that’s part of the relationship there.

One of the things I would say about this relationship is we know when it easier it is for girls or women to access family planning services, which includes counselling and contraceptive methods, the more likely they are to uptake it. So, it’s an obvious thing to say. But I think there are so many barriers to accessing reproductive health services in the Sahel that there’s a relationship between the ability to access, usage rates, and contraceptive prevalence rates, and then that in turn contributes to high fertility and the population growth. One last thing I would say about that is it’s true that there’s generally a preference for large families in West Africa. However, there are more women who want to space or limit their pregnancies, but are not using any contraceptives. There are women who are current users. So, there’s this latent demand for family planning. That’s something that’s there.

Jacobsen: In southern Nigeria, it’s majority Christian. In northern Nigeria, it’s majority Muslim. With northern Nigeria, how is fundamentalist religion associated with exacerbating violations of girls’ rights or with assisting them come to fruition?

Graves: I don’t feel qualified to answer that directly, but I would say our colleagues at the Center for Girls Education have done a really amazing job developing a community approach to get the community members engaged, including, oftentimes, conservative and religious leaders to get them on board with girls’ education because is supported in the Islamic texts. So, for the girls’ education, I think it hasn’t been our experience in working with our partner there hasn’t been negatively affected. In fact, I think they’ve been so successful in getting religious leaders on board that it has contributed to the overall success of keeping girls in school. I think we are now piloting safe space groups. So, that’s like a group of girls who meet with a mentor and develop life skills. Often, they can also help literacy and numeracy equivalents to now piloting with the Center for Girls Education for married adolescent girls, including good spacing of lessons. So far, we’ve been going very carefully because of the things that you just described. So, far, we haven’t met with any resistance.

Jacobsen: For freedom of choice at all levels of life, how will having a higher level of educational access for a girl when she becomes a woman help her become financially independent, and so on?

Graves: That’s a good question, and the truth is: Because it’s such a youthful population, because of the sort of high levels of poverty, the job market looks very, very different. Lots of highly informal work there. So, that’s very different from what most of your readers would be familiar with. That said, I mean, there are a few ways that there’s a promotion of women in the workforce through our service that keeping the girls from school. First of all, through the safe spaces approach that we offer, we are actively promoting girls’ literacy and numeracy improved much more than it was just through the traditional education system. So, they’re more likely to be literate and more likely to be able to do the math and so forth. So, they have the skills. We’re also testing vocational approaches for girls who are out of school and want to learn skills. So, in northern Nigeria, where this is still a relatively small pilot, but so far they’ve been very successful, teaching girls poultry farming, poultry rearing, tailoring, shoemaking, cell phone and small electronics repair. But those are giving girls concrete skills to go into the workforce. It’s still, like I said, a pilot. I don’t know. It’s been a year or two. We’ll have more concrete results. But they’re moving towards opportunities for working outside the home.

Also, I think you’re asking, ‘How is education contributing to them being able to work outside the home?’ One other thing I’d say is: The norms for girls in the communities where we’ve been working have changed radically over the years. When it was just a handful of teenage girls who were in school, families would gossip about those guys sending the girls and putting them at risk. Now that the majority of girls are going to school, the families are gossiping about those families who are keeping girls from going to school. So, expectations for girls have really changed. in northern Nigeria, the culture for a long time now; it’s hundreds of years that families have practiced seclusion until a woman, once she’s married or a girl and she’s married, generally is not allowed to leave the home without the permission of her husband. If we have a cascading mentorship program whereby the girls who go through this program can become mentors, after a few years, given the spaces, the spaces for other girls, those cascading mentors are usually married and they’re usually the first in many, many generations to be allowed by their husbands to work outside the home. So, I find that pretty amazing.

Jacobsen: How can people find out more about Oasis?

Graves: So we just were established as a Canadian charity earlier this year, so we don’t have a Canadian. The website is “www.oasissahel.org.” We as Oasis Canada charity will be fundraising for girls’ safe spaces in Nigeria and Niger. So, Canadians could make tax-deductible gifts to Oasis initiative Canada, that we would pass through without any overhead charges to our partners in northern Nigeria and Niger.

Jacobsen: It’s fabulous.

So different from the US, yes, I think so, too. I think it’s awesome. I have through my Canadian husband; I have some connections in Canada, so I hope to later this year really to get fundraising for that. Because ultimately we want to see this approach. I want to see all girls staying in school for secondary school and being able to make important life choices. Part of our contribution to that will be to continue to offer these safe programs, especially in northern Nigeria and Niger. So, to do that, we need partners in the region and we’re raising as much funding as we can raise.

Jacobsen: Thank you very much for your opportunity and the time today, Alisha.

Graves: Thank you, Scott. I enjoyed talking to you, taking your questions, and hopefully answered them sufficiently.

Jacobsen: Thanks so much.

Graves: Ok, have a nice day.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Co-Founder, OASIS Initiative.

[2] Individual Publication Date: July 22, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/graves; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Prime Minister Salih Hudayar on International Human Rights, the UN Charter, and the Contextualization within the 21st Century: Prime Minister, East Turkistan – Government-in-Exile (3)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/07/08

Abstract

PM Salih Hudayar is the Prime Minister of East Turkistan (Government-in-Exile) and the Founder of the East Turkistan National Awakening Movement. He discusses: similar cases; and international law and rights.

Keywords: China, Chinese, East Turkistan, government-in-exile, Prime Minister, Salih Hudayar, Turks, UN Charter, Uyghurs.

Conversation with Prime Minister Salih Hudayar on International Human Rights, the UN Charter, and the Contextualization within the 21st Century: Prime Minister, East Turkistan – Government-in-Exile (3)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

*Interview conducted October 20, 2020.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: And other than Tibet and some of the concerns about Taiwan or Hong Kong, what are other similar cases or ongoing cases that the Chinese government is working towards enacting similarly to the case for East Turkistan and its peoples?

Salih Hudayar[1],[2]: So East Turkistan has been, since 1950, used as a base for literally everything from nuclear weapons to military software to surveillance systems to new political programs that China wants to test programs, ethnic programs, so, in Tibet, they started with us. They started locking us in concentration camps. They started taking away our language. The international community didn’t respond. Nobody responded effectively. Now, you have half a million Tibetans sent to similar concentration camps. But China is saying that it’s ‘labour camps.’ So, now, China is admitting they’re sending them to labour camps. Half a million Tibetans have been sent to labour camps for ‘labour and training.’ This is one of those in 2020. So, all the national security laws and all the stuff like that, what they did in Hong Kong they just recently passed a national security law. They passed similar laws in East Turkistan and they were kind of gauging the international community to see how the international community would respond.

Between 2014 and 2016, they rounded up 200,000 people, men between the ages of 15 and 45 in East Turkistan. They were the first ones to go into the concentration camps and prisons on the basis that they were prone to become radicalized. They did it so publicly just to see the kind of gauge how the international community would respond and once the international community just completely ignored it. Then that’s when they started locking up millions of people and targeting them regardless of their age, whether they’re male or female, whether they’re religious or not.

Jacobsen: Now, under international law or international fundamental human rights, can you give the audience when they do read this, some of the layouts of the series of human rights violations on the level of the individual right? I’m speaking of, for example, things like forcible sterilization or even coerced or forced marriage to Chinese civilian men. These forms of violations of freedom of choice in a variety of domains. These individual human rights.

Hudayar: Yes. So, from the individual human rights perspective, they are being eradicated. Essentially the UN Charter, it guarantees freedom of religion, freedom of expression, freedom of…, even to engage in their own political views, etc. all is guaranteed under it: a right to live, a right to worship, a right to learn their language, a right to engage in their cultural practices. These are all guaranteed. In fact, even China’s constitution guarantees people the right to practice our religion, to practice our culture, to speak our language, all these things. It’s all on paper. But effectively, what’s happening is, they are being violated.

We can’t even speak our own language in schools or in public places. Our language is no longer being taught. Women and men can’t even wear scarves because if you wear a scarf then you must be an extremist. That’s one reason why you get sent to a concentration camp. If you are male, and if you have a beard, and if you’re under 65, “Oh, then you must be an extremist. Therefore, you have to go to a concentration camp.” If you own matches, that’s illegal. You must be a terrorist, sent to a concentration camp. If you work out, and this is one of another reason, if you physically like to work out, e.g., just doing push-ups, going to a gym, you’re a security threat because you’re training to be a terrorist. You have to go to the concentration camp. If you have travelled overseas, you have to be sent to a concentration camp.

If you believe in any religion, whether it’s Christianity, whether it’s any other religion, you’re probably becoming radicalized. You have to be sent to a concentration camp. All rights are being violated. Children are being separated from their families, half a million children. This is something that the Chinese government has acknowledged. It’s to promote education, to educate and train loyal Chinese citizens. So, what they’re doing is, they’re taking away our children from pre-K up until college, teach them to be loyal Chinese citizens, teaching them to not speak their language, teaching them to hate their own people to be like, “No, these are a bunch of barbarians.” We are actually Chinese people. They were brainwashed into thinking that they were different.

To hate religion, to worship the Chinese state, these are things that are happening: Forcing our women to marry Chinese men, coercing them, in most cases by saying, “If you don’t marry Chinese men, we’re going to send you or your family to the concentration camps.” Many of the people in diaspora countries, in neighbouring countries, even in the diaspora, many of them, even here in the US, a few of them went back, bullishly went back because what the Chinese government did was they arrested their parents and then have them call those children or those relatives outside of the country and told them to come back, “When you come back, they will let you go.” When those people went back, neither those people nor their parents were ever heard from again.

The same thing happened to numerous members of my own family. In Central Asia, I told them, “Don’t go back, don’t be stupid,” because I know they got my mom. I had a cousin. They got my mom and dad. They made my mom call us and said, “They have agreed to let us go if you come back.” None of them are heard from again. There’s so much individual violation like they force DNA collection. They force the collection of DNA and biometric information. Forcibly, a Chinese official lives in your home to ensure your loyalty to promote “ethnic unity” as the Chinese government called it. It is to ensure that you speak Chinese at your home and that you don’t have any or are not engaging in religious practices or anything.

They offer you, “You’re a Muslim.” They’ll offer you drinking. They’ll bring some pork. They’ll be like, “Eat it.” If you don’t eat it, then, you’re an extremist and, therefore, you have to be sent to a concentration camp. In many cases, if you’re a woman, they’ll offer to sleep with you. They’ll be like, “Oh, let’s sleep together.” If you refuse, if you refuse that sexual harassment and the rape that follows afterwards, you’re an extremist and your whole family has to be sent to a concentration camp. There’s no type of oppression like this that is comparable anywhere in the world in the 21st century. The humiliation from the individual basis all the way through the suffering as a national. It’s not visible in any other part of the world at this scale.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Prime Minister, East Turkistan (Government-in-Exile); Founder, East Turkistan National Awakening Movement (ETNAM).

[2] Individual Publication Date: July 15, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/hudayar-3; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Dr. Benoit Desjardins, M.D., Ph.D., on Background, Academics, Intelligence, Science, and Philosophy: Academic Physician; Member, Mega Society (1)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/07/08

Abstract

Professor Benoit Desjardins, MD, PhD, FAHA, FACR is an Ivy League academic physician and scientist at the University of Pennsylvania. He is a member of the Mega Society, the OlympIQ Society and past member of the Prometheus Society. He is the designer of the cryptic Mega Society logo. He is member of several scientific societies and a Fellow of the American College of Radiology and of the American Heart Association. He is the co-Founder of the Arrhythmia Imaging Research (AIR) lab at Penn. His research is funded by the National Institute of Health. He is an international leader in three different fields: cardiovascular imaging, artificial intelligence and cybersecurity. He discusses: growing up; extended self; family background; youth with friends; education; purpose of intelligence tests; high intelligence; extreme reactions to geniuses; greatest geniuses; genius and a profoundly gifted person; necessities for genius or the definition of genius; work experiences and jobs held; job path; myths of the gifted; God; science; tests taken and scores earned; range of the scores; ethical philosophy; political philosophy; metaphysics; worldview; meaning in life; source of meaning; afterlife; life; and love.

Keywords: academic physician, Benoit Desjardins, intelligence, Mega Society, science, University of Pennsylvania.

Conversation with Dr. Benoit Desjardins, M.D., Ph.D., on Background, Academics, Intelligence, Science, and Philosophy: Academic Physician; Member, Mega Society (1)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: When you were growing up, what were some of the prominent family stories being told over time?

Dr. Benoit Desjardins[1],[2]*: Nothing interesting. A very ordinary family, trying to stay afloat financially. I found out on my wedding day that my father was adopted, which added mystery to the family for the first time in my life. But I chose not to investigate further out of respect for his wishes.

Jacobsen: Have these stories helped provide a sense of an extended self or a sense of the family legacy?

Desjardins: No, not much of a legacy. My family history did, however, make me prioritize financial stability as one of my main goals in life.

Jacobsen: What was the family background, e.g., geography, culture, language, and religion or lack thereof?

Desjardins: French Canadian, catholic, I grew up in Montreal. I was a first-generation college student, although I never really attended college and was fast-tracked directly to medical school and graduate school. We were not a very religious family. A priest had cursed my mother to get a physically disabled child when she was pregnant with me because she missed mass, and my parents then dissociated from the church. I was fortunately not born with any handicaps.

Jacobsen: How was the experience with peers and schoolmates as a child and an adolescent?

Desjardins: Not great. I was not good with human interaction. I was a bit of a recluse, although I did attend school but did not have many friends. I went to an all-boys high school. I only became comfortable interacting with girls a few years after high school. Now I have a wife and kids. Happily married for 34 years.

Jacobsen: What have been some professional certifications, qualifications, and trainings earned by you?

Desjardins: My path was unusual. I was fast-tracked to medical school in Canada because of my exceptional intellectual abilities, skipping college. But medical school did not satisfy me intellectually. So, after medical school, I received a very prestigious Award to pursue four simultaneous graduate degrees in the US, combining Pure Mathematics, Artificial Intelligence, Formal Philosophy (Logic), and Theoretical Physics. I called this my “intellectual interlude”. I then completed the medical curriculum (internship, residency, fellowship) to earn a living as an academic physician. So, I have an MD degree, a PhD degree, half a dozen Masters, and medical post-graduate training certificates. I also completed several additional certifications on the side, like recent certifications in hacking and cybersecurity. I love to learn new things, and these certifications force me to learn new fields very thoroughly.

Jacobsen: What is the purpose of intelligence tests to you?

Desjardins: Their purpose is to attempt to evaluate intelligence. I just take those tests for fun as I love to solve complicated problems.

Jacobsen: When was high intelligence discovered for you?

Desjardins: It was in high school since I was pretty much a recluse before that.

Jacobsen: When you think of the ways in which the geniuses of the past have either been mocked, vilified, and condemned if not killed, or praised, flattered, platformed, and revered, what seems like the reason for the extreme reactions to and treatment of geniuses? Many alive today seem camera shy – many, not all.

Desjardins: It usually depends on the mindset of the society in which they live. If it is not open to new ideas or non-traditional ideas, geniuses get vilified, sometimes imprisoned (e.g., Galileo), or killed (e.g., Socrates). On the other hand, if it values new ideas and risk-takers, geniuses get praised or platformed (e.g., Gates, Jobs, Musk).

Jacobsen: Who seem like the greatest geniuses in history to you?

Desjardins: One hundred billion humans ever lived on Earth, so out of those, there were quite a few geniuses throughout history. Here are a few: Socrates, Galileo, da Vinci, Einstein, Darwin, Newton, Aristotle, Turing.

Jacobsen: What differentiates a genius from a profoundly intelligent person?

Desjardins: Extreme creativity and long-term focused effort characterize genius. Profoundly intelligent people are much more common, and most don’t amount to much in life.

Jacobsen: Is profound intelligence necessary for genius?

Desjardins: Profound intelligence is usually a left-brain process. Extreme creativity is usually a right-brain process. So no, it’s not necessary.

Jacobsen: What have been some work experiences and jobs held by you?

Desjardins: The main path I followed is that of an Ivy League academic physician and scientist. But I have always pursued multiple sidelines in parallel. For example, one of my current sidelines is being a hacker and a cybersecurity specialist.

Jacobsen: Why pursue this particular job path?

Desjardins: Early in my life, I sought an intellectually challenging career, which generated good financial security income. However, I quickly realized that such a career did not exist or was very difficult to find. So, I decided to pursue two careers in parallel. I picked academic medicine to generate income and pursued many other activities in parallel to provide an intellectual challenge.

Jacobsen: What are some of the more important aspects of the idea of the gifted and geniuses? Those myths that pervade the cultures of the world. What are those myths? What truths dispel them?

Desjardins: There are many myths. For example, the myth that gifted people always do well in school. But, unfortunately, the structure of the education system is not always appropriate for many geniuses, who either do poorly in school or drop out (e.g., Einstein).

Jacobsen: Any thoughts on the God concept or gods idea and philosophy, theology, and religion?

Desjardins: God was an invention of prehistoric man to explain what he could not understand. Eventually, science explained more and more and made God and religion irrelevant. As for philosophy, it is a field that helps sharpen critical thinking, analysis, and writing. Therefore, everyone should take courses in philosophy, unless one aims for a job not requiring much thinking, like a farmer or a US congressman.

Jacobsen: How much does science play into the worldview for you?

Desjardins: I earn a living as a physician and scientist, so much of my worldview is based on science.

Jacobsen: What have been some of the tests taken and scores earned (with standard deviations) for you?

Desjardins: I took the Mega test and Titan test in the mid-1990s for fun. My scores on those were good enough to qualify for membership to the Mega Society. Whether they are appropriate tests to measure very high IQs is still an open question, but all similar tests face the same problems. I probably have taken other tests as a kid, but I don’t remember much. I also do puzzles and quizzes whenever they come up, such as Tim Roberts quizzes, and I usually finish first at most of them.

Jacobsen: What is the range of the scores for you? The scores earned on alternative intelligence tests tend to produce a wide smattering of data points rather than clusters, typically.

Desjardins: High enough to qualify for membership in the Mega Society. Narrow range, around five-sigma.

Jacobsen: What ethical philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Desjardins: I take a little bit from each of the main ethical philosophies, depending on the context. Deontological ethics mainly guides physicians, but a utilitarian approach often makes more sense to me.

Jacobsen: What social philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Desjardins: I value the “Live and let live” social philosophy with a set of practical constraints. As long as people’s behavior does not harm others, does not harm the environment, and does not harm the social fabric, let people do what they want to do. If they’re going to hurt themselves, it’s their choice. You can always provide them with the best possible advice to help them realize the consequences of their actions, but in the end, it’s their choice. Physicians use that approach a lot. For example, we inform patients who drink too much or do drugs about the consequences of their actions, and if they chose to continue, it’s not our role to forcibly stop them from harming themselves.

Jacobsen: What economic philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Desjardins: Well, I cannot tolerate the cruelty and exploitative nature of predatory capitalism in the US. I instead value any economic system that provides people with the means to achieve their goals in life and reap the benefits of their hard work while at the same time providing a robust social net to prevent people from falling through the cracks. Canada, where I grew up, is a social democracy that provides all these features and makes sense to me from an economic perspective.

Jacobsen: What political philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Desjardins: I oscillate between social liberalism and social democracy, depending on the context. Their basic policies are often the same. I value the power of the state but do not value as much the power of unions.

Jacobsen: What metaphysics makes some sense to you, even the most workable sense to you?

Desjardins: I have a purely atheistic scientific view of the world, and I do not need metaphysics.

Jacobsen: What worldview-encompassing philosophical system makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Desjardins: As a scientist, post-positivism is the worldview philosophical system that makes the most sense to me. Reality is accessible through careful observation and scientific reasoning. Scientists make theories that can evolve, and they use observation to support or disprove a theory, knowing that all observations have a certain amount of error in them. Thus, science makes steady progress towards understanding reality.

Jacobsen: What provides meaning in life for you?

Desjardins: Three elements provide meaning to my life: my wife and kids, job and research work, and achievements. For the past few decades, I undertook a series of Grand Challenges outside work for personal growth and achievement. Each new Grand Challenge had to meet three conditions: (1) be something I had never done in my life, (2) enable me to grow as a person, and (3) have a well-defined end goal. I have pursued many such grand challenges, such as getting a Black Belt at Tae Kwon Do, earning a Wood Badge with Boy Scouts of America, becoming a pilot, becoming a competitive master marksman, etc.

Jacobsen: Is meaning externally derived, internally generated, both, or something else?

Desjardins: It’s both. In my case, my grand challenges are purely internally generated. However, other aspects such as wife and kids are externally generated.

Jacobsen: Do you believe in an afterlife? If so, why, and what form? If not, why not?

Desjardins: We either get cremated or eaten by worms and get recycled, currently into dirt, but eventually possibly into Soylent Green.

Jacobsen: What do you make of the mystery and transience of life?

Desjardins: Life is a beautiful thing. It appeared by itself out of nothing billions of years ago. It kept evolving until it produced Homo Sapiens, which could colonize and change the planet, and might eventually become interstellar. Science has taught us more and more about the mechanisms of life, so it’s becoming less mysterious with time. The transience of life is a good thing, as otherwise there would be 100 billion people living on Earth, 94 billion of them living in old people’s homes.

Jacobsen: What is love to you?

Desjardins: Love is an emotion that binds people to each other. I never thought of it more deeply or philosophically. But I express it regularly. For example, I’ve bought roses for my wife every month since we started dating, and I have not forgotten any monthly roses in the 37 years we have been together.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Academic Physician; Member, OlympIQ Society; Member, Mega Society.

[2] Individual Publication Date: July 8, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/desjardins-1; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Prime Minister Salih Hudayar on Human Rights, Uyghurs, Kazakhs, Turkic Peoples, and Politically Motivated Racism: Prime Minister, East Turkistan – Government-in-Exile (2)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/07/08

Abstract

PM Salih Hudayar is the Prime Minister of East Turkistan (Government-in-Exile) and the Founder of the East Turkistan National Awakening Movement. He discusses: human rights; concentration camps and re-education camps; politically motivated racism.

Keywords: China, Chinese, colonialism, government-in-exile, Prime Minister, Salih Hudayar, Turks, Uyghurs.

Conversation with Prime Minister Salih Hudayar on Human Rights, Uyghurs, Kazakhs, Turkic Peoples, and Politically Motivated Racism: Prime Minister, East Turkistan – Government-in-Exile (2)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

*Interview conducted October 20, 2020.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: With regards to human rights in some of the major human rights organizations in the world today, what has been some of their commentary? What has been some of the work that they have done in regards to these issues around the order of the Kazakhs and other Turks or people who have been locked up in those camps?

Salih Hudayar[1],[2]: So many human rights organizations like Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, have raised the issue to the human rights as a political one. From the human rights perspective, engaging in atrocity, I think the world and the ambassador need to call for sanctions. However, with sanctions, even the terminology that is used is very important, whether referring our people or referring to our country as Turkistan, a lot of these organizations like Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, incorrectly refer to us as Chinese Muslims or Muslims in China, because we always – and other Turkic people, are Turkic people in that context because we don’t see ourselves as Chinese. We are not Chinese. We don’t have any cultural, historical, linguistic ties to China or the Chinese people.

So, that’s something that needs to be corrected. This is something that we have been pushing them to do. Another issue is the term “Chinese,” which they used to describe our homeland in a Chinese colonial term, meaning “territory” or the meaning “frontier.” It’s a humiliating term. Nobody refers to Tibet as “Chinese.” Nobody except China, like China renamed “Tibet” to “Tibet Autonomous Region,” nobody uses that term but China. But you see, most of the governments across the world and human rights organizations and media incorrectly referred to our country as “Chinese.” Therefore, in a way, supporting the Chinese narrative is supporting Chinese colonial efforts, we have been urging people to recognize or refer to our country as “Turkistan” because that’s what we call it.

And whether you look at historical map, if you pull up a map from a hundred years ago of China or surrounding areas or of Asia, you will clearly see that it’s written “East Turkistan.” We were an independent country up until December 22nd, 1949. We were known as the East Turkistan Republic. It was short lived and we lasted for about five years before the Chinese communists came. Previous to that, we had declared independence in 1933 as the Turkistan Republic, and that lasted six months into Soviet intervention. But before 1884, we were known as East Turkistan.

Jacobsen: I also want to focus on some of the terminology around some of the actions, human rights violations or abuses, that have been happening in these particular cases. So, the one that stands out probably for most people in a lay person’s perspective would be “concentration camps.” For those who make the association, they will make the association to the National Socialists in Germany in World War Two. What is the overlap here in terms of the terminology of “concentration camps “in Nazi Germany, in World War Two, and in the cases here of “genocide” ongoing in East Turkistan?

Hudayar: So, the overlap is that the purpose of why these people are being put in the. For example, the Nazis, they demonized the Jews and sent them to these concentration camps, like the same way the Chinese government is demonizing the Uyghurs and sending them to the concentration camps. The structure of the concentration camps, there is barbed wire fencing blocked by watchtowers. These are all things with high walls. In some cases, these things are prevalent. You can’t get out of it. You’re not formally charged with a crime. So, it’s not a prison, where you’re actually charged with a crime and being sent there. The only crime that you have is that your status as an Uyghur.

And just like under the Nazis, the only crime is that where you were, or in most cases you are, Jewish and, in some other cases, you were sympathetic to Jews or you were homosexuals or you were something else – enemies of the Nazis. Just the terminology that China uses, calling them “enemies of the people,” “enemies of the state and the people,” this is the way China portrays our people as we’re the enemy of China and its people. So, therefore, we have to be destroyed. We have to be, as one Chinese official stated, “eradicated.” To this day, they’re continuing to build more and more camps. The Chinese government claims that it’s for re-education; that we’re receiving political language education. The same thing that the Nazis did to reprogram them. Even the propaganda that they showed to the Western world during World War Two, what they said when people heard of these reports, the Nazis set up the stage camps to have the Jews working as in building, working in factories, looking like a productive member of the society, were happy and singing and dancing and playing sports.

And these concentration camps, the same thing that China has done with taking them to specific locations that they created purposely for propaganda purposes and literally having our people sing and dance and clap hands. While clapping their hands, they were saying, “If you’re happy… clap your hands,” in English; by using words like we’re just a bunch of circus monkeys, every time they put out these videos of dancing and clapping and singing and saying, “Hey, we are happy.” This is the same propaganda that the Nazis did as well to dissuade the world from to hide the atrocities that it was committing.

Jacobsen: If you have this case of more than a million Uyghurs, Kazakhs, and Turkic people, basically, having to undergo these kind of actions and ‘re-education,’ in the concentration camps, it’s Chinese citizens on the other side or military personnel. This is a very explicit form of politically motivated racism.

Hudayar: Absolutely. For a long time, since 1954, the Chinese government, because initially when they took over our country, our top leaders including our president, defense minister, general, chief of staff, our secretariat, foreign minister, we don’t know if they actually died in a plane crash or if they were executed and then that was staged like a plane crash. But they were killed. Then the Chinese and the Soviets, they forced the remaining leaders to sign a five-year treaty, which the Chinese communists would help us develop and modernize our country and withdraw their forces. In 1954, when the five-year mark came, the Chinese government now set up the paramilitary, Xinjian Production and Construction Corps. A paramilitary force to colonize, to secure the borders and colonize East Turkistan.

But since then, they’ve been spreading this. They’ve been revising history, stating that East Turkistan has been a part of China since ancient times and that our people are a Chinese people who were invaded by foreign barbarians and brainwashed into thinking that we were different people. So historically, the Chinese have viewed us as barbarians. The way that they’ve been portraying it. Even the shooting of the Mulan, the story of Mulan in East Turkistan near a concentration camp, that’s not coincidental. If you look at the story compared to the original film and the film that was produced this year, you can see that it’s clearly targeting our people, the Uyghur as a bunch of barbarians, because the name of the guy.

The antagonist in the movie is Barbarian, who is called their leader: Bora Khan. Bora in our language means “wolf.” Khan means like “the king.” The king of wolves, historically, in ancient Chinese texts, we were referred to as the wolf people because that was our totem. In fact, that was our imperial flag, like it symbolizes us. So, it was targeting that. the fact that the antagonist in the movie Bora Khan he’s trying to get revenge because the Chinese they killed his father and they took over their lands. This is the political message in there that the American and the Western audience doesn’t get. But, the Chinese audience, they understand. They get the political message. So, it’s a deep rooted historical issue. It’s not something that just happened starting in 2017. This goes back to 1949, even beyond that.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Prime Minister, East Turkistan (Government-in-Exile); Founder, East Turkistan National Awakening Movement (ETNAM).

[2] Individual Publication Date: July 8, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/hudayar-2; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Prime Minister Salih Hudayar on Background to East Turkistan, Uyghur Muslims, and China: Prime Minister, East Turkistan – Government-in-Exile (1)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/07/01

Abstract

PM Salih Hudayar is the Prime Minister of East Turkistan (Government-in-Exile) and the Founder of the East Turkistan National Awakening Movement. He discusses: background, persecution, and the context for Uyghurs now.

Keywords: China, government-in-exile, Muslims, Prime Minister, Salih Hudayar, Uyghurs.

Conversation with Prime Minister Salih Hudayar on Background to East Turkistan, Uyghur Muslims, and China: Prime Minister, East Turkistan – Government-in-Exile (1)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

*Interview conducted October 20, 2020.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: So, let’s start from the beginning, naturally, in terms of some of the upbringing for you and some of the family background, what was some of the family history told to you as a youngster, or even as you discovered a little bit later in your life?

PM Salih Hudayar[1],[2]: So, my first interaction with the Chinese government and the Chinese Communist Party was a very unfortunate interaction. I was four years old at the time. It was 1997. Months after the Chinese government had crushed the Ghulja uprising or the Ghulja protests, which we call the aftermath of the massacre. In February of 1997, thousands working people in Georgia, the former capital of the former Soviet republic, went out into the streets to protest the Chinese government execution of those independence activists. This resulted in the massacre in which the Chinese government killed hundreds of people and arrested thousands just in Ghulja, and then engaged in a massive security lockdown across the entire area in which Amnesty International estimated that they came around 100,000 people during that year.

One of those people that were detained – in the northwest, in my hometown – was my uncle, who was only 17 years old at that time. His crime was that he had read a book, a legal political book, and one of our neighbours followed and someone followed. We don’t know if it was one of our neighbours, but someone found it and they reported him, then were arbitrarily detained by the Chinese government. They came in knocking on our doors with two truckloads of soldiers armed with automatic weapons, shovels. They were trying to find the book. Because if you have any illegals things, you bury them, even if it’s a book. The Chinese government knows about it. They were able to find the book. Then they were trying to get my uncle to confess to being part of a political organization. My uncle refused because he was not a part of any organization.

Then they woke everyone up in the hall. I was the youngest one at that moment. I was four years old, and they pointed a rifle to everyone’s head including mine, and threatened to kill us if my uncle didn’t confess his crimes. My grandmother, my father had fled in 1995 after a demonstration. My grandmother said, “This is your older brother’s trust to us. He needs to survive. You tell them what they wanted to hear.” So, he confessed to being part of some political organization. He spent ten years of his life in prison. So, that was my first interaction, and growing up four years old. In my hometown at that time, there weren’t any Chinese civilians. The only Chinese civilians there. There were Chinese security forces, custom patrol, which you see to this day.

So, hearing from the older generation, they want to talk openly about it. I would hear them talking about the force. I didn’t know that the Chinese, mostly the Russians, because they talked about how we had a country and it was the Russians. So, I thought for a long while. So, I came to the U.S. I thought that the Chinese were actually the Russians. Then I fled in the US with my family and political refugees. My father was able to obtain refuge here in the U.S. in 1997. We came to the U.S. in 2000, on June 14, 2000. My father was the most influential person in terms of informing me about the fact that we were an independent country before. I knew we weren’t Chinese. I knew they were foreigners. I knew that they were occupying our land.

Unfortunately, as I mentioned earlier, I mistakenly thought they were Russians. But I have this desire to resist and to regain our freedom, because, again, no four-year-old in any part of the world should have a gun pointed at their head for political reasons or being carried out by – I wouldn’t call it a mistake, but – reading a book by one of their relatives. My father, when we came to the U.S., the first thing he taught me was he told me, “I thought that you can come here and live and forget about your relatives, your country. But I brought you here so that you can become educated and you can take the opportunity and the education that we learned from here to help free our country.”

My older brother was enrolled in a civil air patrol program. Now, he’s in the Navy, the U.S. Navy, for a little over a decade. I tried to go to the military academy, at West Point Military Academy. But, at the time, I was in the U.S., but because of the medical issues; I had emergency appendectomies with this problem, which led to a medical discharge. So, that questioned my whole military career. But again, I was like, “No, there have to be other ways that I can help. Let me study politics. Let me do something, struggle for my people to freedom and our country’s independence.” In the summer of 2017, right after I finished my bachelor’s, I started the East Turkistan National Awakening Movement with like-minded young leaders and came back here in the United States advocating for not just our human rights, but our political rights.

Because if we don’t have political rights, there’s no way that we can ensure our human rights. The last time that I was able to communicate with anyone inside East Turkistan was when they started locking up people in the concentration camps. My grandfather from my mother’s side, who told me in July 2000, “Don’t call us anymore. I’m too old to go to school, so stop calling.” “School” is a sick euphemism. A code word for “concentration camp,” which China calls the “education camp.” So, we found ETNAM. We began to lobby for the Uyghur Act, which recently was signed into law. We were in the right with the Uyghur Act. We organized a massive demonstration in front of the U.S. Capitol for over a month and every day, Monday through Friday from 9:00 to 5:00, to get their attention to pressure Congress to accept our proposal for the Uyghur Act, to recognize and sanction the Chinese officials for their crimes, we wanted the U.S. Congress to recognize Turkistan as an occupied country like Tibet.

We want the US government to recognize four objectives that we have put to the Chinese officials sanctioned and to get the Uyghur Act passed, to get recognition of the genocide and recognition of our occupied countries that we have. We have achieved two of those goals so far, and we are continuing to push for the other two goals, because at the end of the day, without our own independent state like we had before; these atrocities and oppression, it just shows that the pressure will not ever end. No country is going to guarantee our human rights more than China will claim it. But we have the best China. In fact, that we have the best human rights in the world. But I think of millions of our people are suffering from sterilizing our women, separating millions of children from their families, executing people, stealing their organs, forcing our women to marry Chinese men, forcefully collecting the DNA of over 36 million people, and imprisoning more than three million people in concentration camps and prisons.

I personally, myself, have over 100 relatives that have been detained. Four of them, the ones that I was lucky enough to get information out through other contacts in Central Asia. I discovered; I found the four of them were killed as of April 2019. The others, I don’t know if they are dead. I don’t know if they’re alive. That’s how many of us are in the West, many of us in the diaspora. We don’t even know if our family members, any in Turkistan, are alive, really don’t know if they are alive or if they are dead. In some cases, we find out a year or two years later that they died inside the concentration camp, but China says they die from pneumonia or they die from health conditions. It’s not okay. People are going in and dying.

So, this is a genocide in the 21st century. That’s why independence is the only way to ensure our people’s survival is the only way to ensure our people’s basic human rights. Governments around the world, people talk about human rights all the time. Have they done anything? They have actually done anything to stop the atrocities. The governments know what’s going on. They have more information than we do about what’s going on. The number of people that are dying; the number of people that are in the camps; all the intelligence agencies, they know it. But they are keeping silent on this because most of them; it’s not in their interest.

So if other governments can’t guarantee our human rights, the only government that will be able to do that is our own government once we regain our independence. This is why it’s necessary for our people’s survival. When we were an independent nation, no foreign power, no government was able to come in and start sending us into concentration camps, separating families, pointing guns at four-year-old’s head. No one was able to do that.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Prime Minister, East Turkistan (Government-in-Exile); Founder, East Turkistan National Awakening Movement (ETNAM).

[2] Individual Publication Date: July 1, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/hudayar-1; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Distinguished Professor Graham Priest on Indian Logics, Nāgārjuna, Gottlob Frege and Peter Geach, and the PNC and the PEM: Distinguished Professor, Philosophy, City University of New York (4)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/06/22

Abstract

From the professional website for Professor Priest: “Graham Priest grew up as a working class kid in South London. He read mathematics and (and a little bit of logic) at St. John’s College, Cambridge. He obtained his doctorate in mathematics at the London School of Economics. By that time, he had come to the conclusion that philosophy was more fun than mathematics. So, luckily, he got his first job (in 1974) in a philosophy department, as a temporary lecturer in the Department of Logic and Metaphysics at the University of St Andrews. The first permanent job he was offered was at the University of Western Australia. He moved to Australia when he took up the position, and has spent most of his working life there. After 12 years at the University of Western Australia, he moved to take up the chair of philosophy at the University of Queensland, and after 12 years there, he moved again to take up the Boyce Gibson Chair of Philosophy at Melbourne University, where he is now emeritus. While he was there, he was a Fellow of Ormond College. During the Melbourne years, he was also an Arché Professorial Fellow at the University of St Andrews. He is a past president of the Australasian Association for Logic, and the Australasian Association of Philosophy, of which he was Chair of Council for 13 years. He was elected a Fellow of the Australian Academy of Humanities in 1995, and awarded a Doctor of Letters by the University of Melbourne in 2002. In 2009 he took up the position of Distinguished Professor at the Graduate Center, City University of New York, where he now lives and works. Graham has published in nearly every leading logic and philosophy journal. At the last count, he had published about 240 papers. He has also published six monographs (mostly with Oxford University Press), as well as a number of edited collections. Much of his work has been in logic, especially non-classical logic, and related areas. He is perhaps best know for his work on dialetheism, the view that some contradictions are true. However, he has also published widely in many other areas, such as metaphysics, Buddhist philosophy, and the history of philosophy, both East and West. Graham has travelled widely, lecturing and addressing conferences in every continent except Antarctica. For many years, he practiced karatedo. He is a third dan in Shobukai, and a fourth dan in Shitoryu (awarded by the head of style, Sensei Mabuni Kenei in Osaka, when he was training there). Before he left Australia he was an Australian National kumite referee  and kata judge. Nowadays, he swims and practices taichi. He loves (good operajazz , and 60s rock … and East Asian art.” He discusses: Indian logics; Buddhist tradition; against dialetheism; Gottlob Frege and Peter Geach; the traditional splits between realists and the anti-realists, and the idealists and the constructivist; most significant developments from this challenge to the Aristotelian logic; upcoming projects.

Keywords: Dialetheism, Gottlob Frege, Graham Priest, logicians, Nāgārjuna, paraconsistency, Peter Geach, philosophy, Principle of the Excluded Middle, Principle of Non-Contradiction.

Conversation with Distinguished Professor Graham Priest on Indian Logics, Nāgārjuna, Gottlob Frege and Peter Geach, and the PNC and the PEM: Distinguished Professor, Philosophy, City University of New York (4)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: In ancient Indian logics, there were four possibilities: true, false, both true and false, and neither true nor false. How does this mesh well with the dialethetic approach to knowing?

Professor Graham Priest[1],[2]: Well, it’s not quite as simple as that. Views on the truth values differed an Ancient India. The Hindu Nyāyā philosophers held that there were just two (true and false), as did some of the later Buddhist philosophers, such as Dharmakīrti and Dignāga. Earlier Buddhist philosophers held that there were four (true, false, both, and neither). (This is the catuṣkoṭi.) Jain philosophers held that there were seven! (This was the saptabhaṅgī.) One of these was indescribable. Whether this was a form of both or neither is unclear.

However, any view which holds that some things are both true and false accommodates dialetheism.

Jacobsen: The Mahayana Buddhist tradition through Nagarjuna states all is real and not real, both real and not real, and neither real nor not real. Why is this a statement about the world rather than a mystical incantation about some ineffable property?

Priest: Well, interpreting Nāgārjuna is a vexed question—both within Buddhist traditions and amongst modern scholars. And it is not clear how this passage is best interpreted. But it is standard in Buddhist thought that there are two realities (satyas). There is the conventional reality of the world as we actually experience it, and the ultimate reality of how things actually are. Probably the best interpretation of this passage is that some thing can be real (conventionally), not real (ultimately), both real (conventionally) and not real (ultimately), and neither real (ultimately) nor not real (conventionally). All rather mundane, I’m afraid.

Jacobsen: Why are arguments against dialetheism focused on negations? Any examples?

Priest: Well, a dialetheia is a pair of statements of the form A and ~A. There isn’t much to focus on except negation! Some people have argued that the truth of ~A rules out the truth of A, as a matter of definition. Clearly, such an argument is question-begging and worthless.

Jacobsen: How would you properly respond to them?

Priest: See the previous question. More generally, how negation works and what properties it has been controversial throughout the history of Western philosophy/logic—and no more than now.

Jacobsen: Gottlob Frege and Peter Geach argued, I think, the rejection of X means the acceptance of ~X. Why is the adjoining not necessarily correct or so obvious to bring together?

Priest: Yes, they did, though note that rejection is not the same as negation. Negation is on operation that applies to a sentence and delivers a sentence with different content. Assertion and denial are actions you perform with a sentence. But even without worrying about dialetheism, the Frege/Geach view is clearly false. One often finds that one’s views are inconsistent in a way that one hadn’t realised. (It’s common in a discussion of any complexity.) One discovers that one asserts A and ~A. In the second assertion, one is clearly not denying A. That is, after all, what one accepts (until one changes one’s views). Once one brings dialetheism into the picture, matters become even more obvious. I assert that the liar sentence is true and I assert that the liar sentence is not true. In the latter assertion I am obviously not denying that it is true; for that is exactly what I think it is.

Jacobsen: Given some of the prior commentary, how do paraconsistent thinkers – ahem – think about the traditional splits between realists and the anti-realists, and the idealists and the constructivist?

Priest: Well, dialetheism is neutral on this question. It says that some contradictions are true. It says nothing about whether truth is to be construed realistically or anti-realistically. As far as paraconsistent logic goes, there are many of these. Perhaps some are more realism-friendly, and some are more antirealism-friendly—though this depends on how you think these metaphysical views play out logically. Thus, for example, suppose you think (misguidedly, I believe) that the Principle of Excluded Middle is characteristic of realism, and its failure is characteristic of anti-realism. There are both paraconsistent logics with and paraconsistent logics without the PEM.

Jacobsen: What have been the most significant developments from this challenge to the Aristotelian logic notions or interpretations of meaningfulness, validity, rationality, and truth?

Priest: Well, oddly enough, this changes virtually everything, and virtually nothing. Because the PNC is a principle that has tightly circumscribed nearly everything in Western philosophy, removing it opens up a wide vista of new possible positions on nearly everything; from metaphysics to ethics to the philosophy of mind, to philosophical hermeneutics, to aesthetics. Actually, I think this is a rather exciting development in philosophy.

On the other hand, one thing we have learned is that giving up the PNC changes virtually nothing. All the old theories of meaning are still possible; validity can still be defined in terms of truth preservation, or specified in terms of a bunch of rules of inference; to be rational is still to ‘apportion your beliefs according to the evidence’ (as Hume put it); and all the old theories of truth are still available and viable—to whatever extent they were before. In a way, this all makes it even more puzzling as to why so many philosophers have felt that the sky would fall in if some contradictions were permissible.

Jacobsen: Finally, any upcoming projects or books, or other paraconsistent philosophers for others to look into – plug, plug?

Priest: The book I currently in the process of writing is on socio-political philosophy, and has nothing to do with paraconsistency or dialetheism (or, more generally logic and metaphysics). After that, I have in mind a book on nothingness, which will certainly deploy paraconsistency and dialetheism.

There is so much written on paraconsistent logic now, that it is a long time since I have been able to keep track of it all. Even the literature on dialetheism is now so large that I’m not aware of all the things that are happening. So let me just flag one book in press. This is coming out with Oxford University Press, hopefully later this year. It’s written by Yasuo Deguchi, Jay Garfield, Bob Sharf, and myself. It’s called Whereof one Cannot Speak, and it’s on dialetheism in East Asian philosophy—mainly Chinese and Japanese Buddhism.

Jacobsen: Thank you for the opportunity and your time, Professor Priest.

Priest: You’re welcome.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Distinguished Professor, Philosophy, Graduate Center, City University of New York (2009-Present).

[2] Individual Publication Date: June 22, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/priest-4; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Distinguished Professor Graham Priest on Paraconsistency and Dialetheism, Explosion, Aristotelian Laws of Logic, and Explosions Reframed: Distinguished Professor, Philosophy, City University of New York (3)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/06/15

Abstract

From the professional website for Professor Priest: “Graham Priest grew up as a working class kid in South London. He read mathematics and (and a little bit of logic) at St. John’s College, Cambridge. He obtained his doctorate in mathematics at the London School of Economics. By that time, he had come to the conclusion that philosophy was more fun than mathematics. So, luckily, he got his first job (in 1974) in a philosophy department, as a temporary lecturer in the Department of Logic and Metaphysics at the University of St Andrews. The first permanent job he was offered was at the University of Western Australia. He moved to Australia when he took up the position, and has spent most of his working life there. After 12 years at the University of Western Australia, he moved to take up the chair of philosophy at the University of Queensland, and after 12 years there, he moved again to take up the Boyce Gibson Chair of Philosophy at Melbourne University, where he is now emeritus. While he was there, he was a Fellow of Ormond College. During the Melbourne years, he was also an Arché Professorial Fellow at the University of St Andrews. He is a past president of the Australasian Association for Logic, and the Australasian Association of Philosophy, of which he was Chair of Council for 13 years. He was elected a Fellow of the Australian Academy of Humanities in 1995, and awarded a Doctor of Letters by the University of Melbourne in 2002. In 2009 he took up the position of Distinguished Professor at the Graduate Center, City University of New York, where he now lives and works. Graham has published in nearly every leading logic and philosophy journal. At the last count, he had published about 240 papers. He has also published six monographs (mostly with Oxford University Press), as well as a number of edited collections. Much of his work has been in logic, especially non-classical logic, and related areas. He is perhaps best know for his work on dialetheism, the view that some contradictions are true. However, he has also published widely in many other areas, such as metaphysics, Buddhist philosophy, and the history of philosophy, both East and West. Graham has travelled widely, lecturing and addressing conferences in every continent except Antarctica. For many years, he practiced karatedo. He is a third dan in Shobukai, and a fourth dan in Shitoryu (awarded by the head of style, Sensei Mabuni Kenei in Osaka, when he was training there). Before he left Australia he was an Australian National kumite referee  and kata judge. Nowadays, he swims and practices taichi. He loves (good operajazz , and 60s rock … and East Asian art.” He discusses: Classical logic; the Laws of Logic; the contemporary dialetheic movement; Western philosophy; a dialetheism situation; a dialetheist view; dialetheism and paraconsistency; paraconsistent thinking; a paraconsistent logician and a classical logician come to common ground; and both classical logics and paraconsistent logics.

Keywords: Aristotle, Dialetheism, Explosion, Graham Priest, logicians, paraconsistency, philosophy, Principle of Non-Contradiction.

Conversation with Distinguished Professor Graham Priest on Paraconsistency and Dialetheism, Explosion, Aristotelian Laws of Logic, and Explosions Reframed: Distinguished Professor, Philosophy, City University of New York (3)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Thank you for the first and second parts to the interview. Let’s begin on some of the more substantive areas of analysis for the paraconsistent logicians. It appears to be a minority position within the professional philosophical community, but it is growing for 40 years, as you noted. Although, it may garner some more attention in form within other domains of discourse and representation, where “representation” comes to mean “modes of thought, i.e., without systematic presentation.” Something akin to the logic one might see in some Buddhist philosophy, not an original point. In Part Two, you mention the “high orthodoxy in Western philosophy.” How was this orthodoxy of Western philosophy with the Principle of Non-Contradiction locked into the Western philosophical tradition? Who are the culprits?

Professor Graham Priest[1],[2]: Well, ‘culprit’ is not really the right word, and you need to distinguish between paraconsistency and dialetheism. A logic is paraconsistent if, according to it, it is not the case that everything follows from a contradiction (The principle that everything follows from a contradiction is now usually called by the name Explosion.) As anyone familiar with the history of logic knows, theories of what follows from what have appeared and disappeared in Western philosophy. The earliest such theories were produced by Aristotle and the Stoics. Aristotle’s logic (Syllogistic) was paraconsistent. (He points this out himself.) And as far as we can tell, so was Stoic logic. (We have less documentary evidence of that.) Again as far as we know, Explosion surfaces in Western logic in 12th Century France. Thereafter it appears in various guises in Medieval theories of logic. Virually all of Medieval logic is forgotten with the rise of Humanism, and we are back to Aristotelian logic (and so Paraconsistency) for about the next 400 years. Matters change again around the turn of the 20th century when so called classical logic was invented by Frege, Russell, and others. According to this logic, Explosion is valid. Classical logic became, and still is, the orthodox logical theory of our day. But from its inception, various of its aspects were regarded by a number of logicians as problematic. So we have seen the flourishing of many so called non-classical logics. Modern paraconsistent logics are one kind of non-classical logic, and were developed independently in several different countries (indeed, continents) around the 1960s and 1970s. Since then, they have been developed and studied intensively by many logicians

Dialetheism is quite different. Dialetheism is the view that some contradictions are true. A number of philosophers before Aristotle were dialetheists. We know that because Aristotle himself tells us so. In a famous passage in his Metaphysics, he takes them in his sights, and defends the claim that no contradictions are true—the Principle of Non-Contradiction (PNC). That text really entrenched the PNC in Western philosophy—so much so that no philosopher after him seems to have felt the need to argue for it. There have been some dissenting voices—Hegel is the most obvious; but it is fair to say that the PNC has been high orthodoxy since Aristotle. That’s rather strange, because Aristotle’s arguments are pretty bad. The longest is so tangled that it is hard to know how it’s supposed to work, let alone that it works. And the others are clearly arguing for something else. (Aristotle appears confused.) This, incidentally, is pretty much the standard view of modern Aristotle scholars. The success of Aristotle’s arguments seems to have been more the result of his magisterial authority in the Middle Ages, than of their cogency. Of course, nearly everything Aristotle wrote has been rejected, or at least seriously problematised, since he wrote. The PNC is something of the last bastion of Aristotle’s thought, and it is only in the last 40 or 50 years, with the development of modern dialetheism, that its shaky grounds have finally been exposed.

Jacobsen: Why have Western philosophers, almost as a matter of course or even of faith, taken on the patrilineal intellectual descent of Aristotle on the Laws of Logic? Is it convenience, not questioning, the way education has developed over centuries, etc.?

Priest: As I explained in the previous question. Aristotelian logic was overthrown when classical logic replaced Syllogistic. The question is better asked about the PNC. As I observed in the last answer, Aristotle’s view about everything else have now been overthrown, or at least seriously challenged. Why is the PNC the last of these? I don’t know. Something has to be last. In general, philosophers, as a collective body, are pretty good at challenging each other’s views. Though there is always a tendency to interpret historical philosophers in such a way as to make them fit in to current ideas. This tends to engender conservativity.

Jacobsen: What sparked this revolution 40 years ago as a formal departure, in larger numbers rather than with a single thinker, from more than 2,000 years of philosophical history and thought about the principles of thought seen in the Laws of Logic inclusive of the Principle of Non-Contradiction?

Priest: You have to understand the revolution that occurred in logic at the turn of the 20th century. This was not just a time when classical logic replaced Syllogistic. It was a time when the tools of mathematics (algebra, formal rigor, etc) had developed to a point where they could be applied to logical theorising. For some time, it was simply assumed that the applications of these techniques delivered classical logic. They do not: they can be equally applied to develop a whole host of non-classical logics, including paraconsistent logics. And the viability of paraconsistent logics undercut many of the conservative knee jerk reactions against the LNC. Without these developments in logic, I don’t think the contemporary dialetheic movement would have been possible.

Jacobsen: On Explosion or ex falso sequitur quodlibet, the paraconsistent nature of the statements, as shown or given in Part Two. What does this mean for centuries of Western philosophical and, in fact, religious-theological thought, by which I mean systems of thinking applied to their standard domains? How might paraconsistent theories begin to envelope more and more of science, e.g., areas of emerging science and mathematics?

Priest: Well, for the most part of the history of Western philosophy, logic has been taken to be paraconsistent, as I explained. Dialetheism is a different matter. It has been assumed that contradictions are always unacceptable. That assumption has to go. That certainly opens up new possibilities, but not as much as one might think. In many cases, to accept an area as contradictory would be entirely ad hoc, and not rationally justified.

If inconsistent theories ever come to be accepted in science, I think it will be because a piece of paraconsistent mathematics (of which there are now many, and a growing number, of kinds) seems to give exactly the right predications. This does not mean that the predictions themselves are contradictory. The contradiction could be buried deep in the heart of theory, or about things which are entirely unobservable.

Jacobsen: Are there any examples in American legal history in which a dialetheism situation came forward to amusing effect, in hindsight? For a South African example, one “Coloured” (South African term for mixed black-and-white race person) comedian, Trevor Noah, notes being “born a crime” because of mixed-race heritage in Apartheid South Africa.

Priest: I’m afraid I don’t know enough about the legal history of the US (or of any other country, for that matter) to answer this question.

Jacobsen: To the implied question in the statement, “Of course, the truth if these particular contradictions depends on the philosophical views in question being correct.” Are these aforementioned philosophical views correct?

Priest: Every philosophical view is contentious—almost by definition. In that way, dialetheism is no different from any other philosophical view. And one may hold a dialetheic view about many different subjects: the paradoxes of self-reference, motion, law, vagueness, the limits of language, the ground of reality. One might well be a dialetheist about some of these things and not others. I have argued for a dialetheist view about all of these things, so I take these views to be correct. But I think it is fair to say that dialetheism about any topic is still a minority view.

Jacobsen: Why is the shift in thinking about logic second and a theory first important when considering dialetheism? The theory of dialetheism as a motivator for paraconsistent logic to evolve, naturally, for reasons apart from the dialetheism itself. Is this more a sensibility and a philosophical approach than something formal and rigid? Alan Watts’ goo compared to prickles.

Priest: Well, dialetheism and paraconsistency are both theories. One is a theory about truth; the other is a theory about validity (what follows from what). In truth, all we ever have are theories about these things. Some theories may achieve consensus for periods of time; but all are fallible, and what is accepted can change over time. As I have said, contemporary dialetheism would not have got off the ground without developments in paraconsistent logic. But dialetheism also provides a reason for taking a paraconsistent account of validity seriously. There is, then, a dialectical interplay between the two. In fact, if one’s eyes are open to it, one can see that such a dialectical interplay between logic and metaphysics is a feature of the history of Western philosophy.

Jacobsen: Could “Reasoners,” perhaps, be more aptly stated as “Parareasoners”? In that, human beings, given forms of paraconsistent thinking, are more naturally leaning on paraconsistent theories (and the subsequent logic) than classical logic and classical thinking.

Priest: Well, ordinary reasoners don’t tend to accept that a contradiction entails everything; and as experimental philosophy has shown, many “ordinary people” are quite happy to accept contradictions sometimes—for example about situations in the borderline area of a vague predicate. But we also know from studies in cognitive psychology (if we didn’t know this anyway!) that people often reason badly; and indeed, that they make systematic mistakes. So nothing much follows from that. Logic is not about how people actually reason. That’s a topic for psychologists. Logic is about the norms of correct reasoning, and what those are has to be fought out in philosophical debate.

Jacobsen: When can a paraconsistent logician and a classical logician come to common ground with a reductio ad absurdum? Can you give an example?

Priest: There are many different paraconsistent logics. However, for the most part, they agree on the fact that classical logic (as expressed with its usual connectives) is correct in consistent situations. Thus, for example, no one has every found it plausible to suggest that Euclidean Geometry, or Group Theory is inconsistent. So classical logic seems fine there

Reductio ad absurdum can be formulated in many different, and sometimes non-equivalent, ways. Here is one standard form: Assume A, together with some other things. Establish that a contradiction follows. Conclude that ~A, whilst maintaining the other things. This is a valid classical form of inference. Hence a paraconsistent logician may be quite happy with it in consistent contexts/theories

The crucial question then becomes: when is it reasonable to suppose that a context/theory is consistent? Much philosophical discussion has gone into that question. But assuming that consistency is pretty much the norm, it seems plausible to accept that a theory/context is consistent unless and until one has specific reason to doubt this. If one is found, then one may have to go back and reevaluate matters; but that is nothing that would seem unreasonable if one is, quite generally, a fallibilist.

In fact, this whole idea can be used to frame formal non-monotonic paraconsistent logics which coincide with classical logic in consistent situations. (An intensive study of such logics has been made by the Belgian logician Diderik Batens and his school in Gent. He calls them Adaptive Logics.) This is not the place to go into the technical details.

Jacobsen: Do philosophical theories or logics exist incorporative of both classical logics and paraconsistent logics?

Priest: Yes, this may be done in different ways. In answer to the last question I explained one way.

Another is as follows. Paraconsistent logics and classical logics tend to agree with each other (though not invariably) when it comes to logical operators other than negation. So one may have a logic which behaves as usual for these, but which has two negation symbols. One behaves classically (“Boolean negation”); one behaves paraconsistently. Such logics can be used for many paraconsistent purposes, but not, for example, for handling the paradoxes of self-reference. Standard semantic and set-theoretic principles deliver a contradiction which uses Boolean negation, and so everything follows.

The question then becomes: which is the “real” negation?  It is not at all clear what this question means, or how to go about answering it. There has been a good deal of debate amongst logicians—paraconsistent and otherwise—about this matter. But, again, here is not the place to go into the matter.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Distinguished Professor, Philosophy, Graduate Center, City University of New York (2009-Present).

[2] Individual Publication Date: June 15, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/priest-3; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Anthony Sepulveda (Brown) on Abortion, Relational Ethical Quandaries, and Mothers: Member, World Genius Directory (10)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/06/08

Abstract

Anthony Sepulveda (Brown) is a Member of the World Genius Directory. He discusses: abortion; the 20th and 21st century; ethical views; ethical premises about abortion; the father; religion and abortion; and secular worldviews and religion.

Keywords: abortion, Anthony Sepulveda, mother, relationships.

Conversation with Anthony Sepulveda (Brown) on Abortion, Relational Ethical Quandaries, and Mothers: Member, World Genius Directory (10)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Abortion, what is it, historically?

Anthony Sepulveda (Brown)[1],[2]*: The act of terminating pregnancy.

Jacobsen: What is it now, in the latter 20th century and early 21st century?

Sepulveda (Brown): The same act, if conducted under significantly safer conditions.

Jacobsen: What ethical views seem the most relevant for this subject matter?

Sepulveda (Brown): For many, abortion is no different from murder. Made all the more heinous because they equate the fetus to a healthy, living child. They are mistaken insofar as a developing fetus is not so different from any other arrangement of human cells. If anyone is so passionate about the sanctity of such minute issues, they’d have to express themselves towards all behaviour that could be considered sadistic or masochistic if they didn’t want to seem hypocritical.

Jacobsen: What ethical premises seem the most important to consider regarding the gamete cells of the father, the mother, then the zygote, the blastocyst, and the foetus?

Sepulveda (Brown): It’s most important to reduce the overall suffering of all parties involved once aborting the pregnancy has been deemed necessary. Often, abortions are conducted well before the infant is capable of living outside the womb or even feeling pain. In those cases, the only ones who truly suffer are the parents involved. Once the pregnancy has developed beyond a certain point, the birthing process is induced and the child is put into protective custody.

In Tango’s case, there was one major complication – her husband. He is not a rational man and there’s no way she could hold everything together with him in the picture. Years ago he threatened my life for simply speaking to her. So I could only imagine how far he’d go if he learned someone else had impregnated her.

It was so hard for me to tell her to, in her eyes, kill her child. I knew how hard she was willing to work to give it a good life. But I knew she’d never consider cutting her husband out of their child’s life; that’d be to cruel an option in her eyes. So, I told her the truth – either everyone suffers or just the three of us will (Tango, myself and the photographer). Thankfully, she chose the latter.

Jacobsen: What ethical premises seem the most important to consider regarding the father, whether part of a relationship with the mother or a sperm donor?

Sepulveda (Brown): Most consideration is given to the mother as she has to physically carry the child and her role as parent is certain. In comparison, fatherhood can be doubted for obvious reasons. There are some arguments that men should have some say in what happens. But while it would be fair to let them voice their opinions, I believe that the final decision should be up to the mother.

In the case of sperm donors, they should have absolutely no say in what happens.

Jacobsen: What ethical premises seem the most important to consider regarding the mother?

Sepulveda (Brown): Her highest priorities are her health and safety.

Jacobsen: What ethical premises seem the most important to consider regarding the type of relationship status of the mother?

Sepulveda (Brown): Any consequences to someone’s relationships shouldn’t matter in comparison to the suffering of those involved. To love someone is to want them to be happy, no matter what it takes. It requires you to be humble enough to accept your position in their life and pursue what’s best for them anyway.

To those reading – please don’t judge anyone you know who’s either been through or is going through this process. Rarely is it a casual option. So just keep your mouth shut and support them as much as you can.

Jacobsen: How do different religions view abortion?

Sepulveda (Brown): Many consider the act to be an abhorrent sin for which those who’ve committed it will be punished for eternity.

Tango is one such person. And when she expressed that belief, there was nothing I could do to disprove her religious views. Which I wouldn’t have done if I could because I knew how important her faith is for her. Instead, I tried to assure her that no loving God or reasonable person would judge her unfairly. And I promised her that every year we’d take some time to pray to her child and tell it how things were going so that if our day of judgement comes, God and her child could make an informed decision.

Despite how things went, I intend to keep that promise.

Jacobsen: What about secular (agnostics, atheists, humanists, etc.) people who are “Pro-Life,” so the same or similar views minus the transcendent justification or argument for the views?

Sepulveda (Brown): Their arguments are more reasonable, insofar as they’re grounded here in objective reality. But their views aren’t as logically valid as they think. Beyond the argument about suffering I made above, Judith Jarvis Thomson developed an excellent counterargument that I recently learned about in the video Abortion and Ben Shapiro by Philosophy Tube. It would take me longer to explain here than watch, so I’d highly recommend it to anyone interested in the subject.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Member, World Genius Directory.

[2] Individual Publication Date: June 8, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/Sepulveda-10; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Distinguished Professor Graham Priest on Dialetheism, Truth, True Paradoxes, and Metaphilosophy: Distinguished Professor, Philosophy, City University of New York (2)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/06/01

Abstract

From the professional website for Professor Priest: “Graham Priest grew up as a working class kid in South London. He read mathematics and (and a little bit of logic) at St. John’s College, Cambridge. He obtained his doctorate in mathematics at the London School of Economics. By that time, he had come to the conclusion that philosophy was more fun than mathematics. So, luckily, he got his first job (in 1974) in a philosophy department, as a temporary lecturer in the Department of Logic and Metaphysics at the University of St Andrews. The first permanent job he was offered was at the University of Western Australia. He moved to Australia when he took up the position, and has spent most of his working life there. After 12 years at the University of Western Australia, he moved to take up the chair of philosophy at the University of Queensland, and after 12 years there, he moved again to take up the Boyce Gibson Chair of Philosophy at Melbourne University, where he is now emeritus. While he was there, he was a Fellow of Ormond College. During the Melbourne years, he was also an Arché Professorial Fellow at the University of St Andrews. He is a past president of the Australasian Association for Logic, and the Australasian Association of Philosophy, of which he was Chair of Council for 13 years. He was elected a Fellow of the Australian Academy of Humanities in 1995, and awarded a Doctor of Letters by the University of Melbourne in 2002. In 2009 he took up the position of Distinguished Professor at the Graduate Center, City University of New York, where he now lives and works. Graham has published in nearly every leading logic and philosophy journal. At the last count, he had published about 240 papers. He has also published six monographs (mostly with Oxford University Press), as well as a number of edited collections. Much of his work has been in logic, especially non-classical logic, and related areas. He is perhaps best know for his work on dialetheism, the view that some contradictions are true. However, he has also published widely in many other areas, such as metaphysics, Buddhist philosophy, and the history of philosophy, both East and West. Graham has travelled widely, lecturing and addressing conferences in every continent except Antarctica. For many years, he practiced karatedo. He is a third dan in Shobukai, and a fourth dan in Shitoryu (awarded by the head of style, Sensei Mabuni Kenei in Osaka, when he was training there). Before he left Australia he was an Australian National kumite referee  and kata judge. Nowadays, he swims and practices taichi. He loves (good operajazz , and 60s rock … and East Asian art.” He discusses: dialetheism; the nature of truth; the construction of formal logic; some classic examples of formal logical statements with a dialetheism counterpart; the strengths and weaknesses of traditional logics, paraconsistent logics, and dialetheism-based logic; formal dialetheism; systems build on top of dialetheism; true paradoxes; philosophy and metaphilosophy; and the realm of metaphilosophy.

Keywords: Dialetheism, formal logic, Graham Priest, logic, metaphilosophy, paradox, philosophy.

Conversation with Distinguished Professor Graham Priest on Dialetheism, Truth, True Paradoxes, and Metaphilosophy: Distinguished Professor, Philosophy, City University of New York (2)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Let’s step into dialetheism. What is it, fundamentally?

Professor Graham Priest[1],[2]: Contradictions are things of the form ‘it’s raining and it isn’t raining’, ‘I saw someone and I saw no one’. Melbourne could be in Australia and Melbourne couldn’t be in Australia’. A dialetheia is a contradiction that is true. And dialetheism is the view that there are such things.

Jacobsen: How does dialetheism change the discourse on the nature of truth?

Priest: There are many views in the history of philosophy about the nature of truth (that it is correspondence with reality, that it is what is verified by experience, and so on). Dialetheism does not change this discussion. In saying that some contradictions are true, ‘true’ can mean whatever you think it does. However, it has been high orthodoxy in Western philosophy that contradictions cannot be true (the Principle of Non-Contradiction). Aristotle locked the view into Western philosophy with what can only be described as poor arguments (as most modern scholars of Aristotle would agree). However, virtually all western philosophers have accepted it since then. (Arguably, there have been some exceptions, such as Hegel. But Hegel’s defenders tend to contest this.) Modern dialetheism is a view of the last forty years or so; and it is exactly the view that the Principle of Non-Contradiction is wrong.

Jacobsen: With statements as both true and false, how does this alter the construction of formal logic?

Priest: Let me keep this as simple as possible. Standard systems of logic are usually based on the assumption that statements are either true or false, not both, and not neither. They also have a notion of negation. The negation of ‘the sun is shining’ is ’the sun is not shining’. The negation of ‘all philosophers are happy’ is ‘some philosophers are not happy’, and so on. If A is some statement, logicians write its negation as ~A. And the standard assumption is that A is true if ~A is false, and A is false if ~A is true. This setup has various consequences. One is that if A is any sentence, ‘A or ~A’ is true. (A is either true or false, so one of these must hold). This is sometimes called the Principle of Excluded Middle.

Another is that ‘A and ~A’ is false (One or other of these must be false.) This is the Principle of Non-Contradiction.

Clearly, if some contradiction can indeed be true, the Principle of Non-Contradiction fails.

Other consequences of the standard set up are not so obvious. An inference is something of the form ‘So and so, therefore such and such’. The so and so is called the premise, and the such and such is called the conclusion. An inference is valid if whenever the premise is true, the conclusion must also be true. That is, it can’t be the case that the premise is true, and the conclusion isn’t. But given the Principle of Non-Contradiction, it can’t be the case that something of the form A and ~A is true. So whatever B is, it can’t be the case that A and ~A is true and B isn’t. In other words, any inference of the form ‘A and ~A , so B’ is valid. Everything follows validly from a contradiction! This fact is sometimes called by its medieval name, ex falso quodlibet sequitur. Modern logicians more often call it by another name, Explosion, since it says that once one’s information is inconsistent it explodes to deliver everything.

Now if ‘A and ~A’ can be true, it can be the case that ‘A and ~A’ is true, and B is not true. That is, Explosion is not valid. Modern logicians call systems of logic where Explosion is not valid paraconsistent (beyond the consistent).

Jacobsen: What are some classic examples of formal logical statements with a dialetheism counterpart with more sense made through dialetheism than with formal logic in traditional interpretations of the logic?

Priest: There are many of these—though, of course, they are all philosophically contentions, since dialetheism is too. The ones that most people think of first are those connected with the paradoxes of self-reference. The oldest of these is the liar paradox, a sentence that says of itself that it is false. If this sentence is true, it is false; and if it is false, it is true. So, it seems to be both. A structurally similar, but more modern, paradox is Russell’s paradox. Consider the set of all those sets that are not members of themselves. If this is a member of itself, then it’s not a member of itself. But if it isn’t, it is. So, it seems to be both a member of itself and not a member of itself.

Actually, I think that the most obvious examples of dialetheias concern legal situations. Suppose that a jurisdiction says that all people in class X can do such and such, and no person in class Y can do such and such. Things are perfectly consistent until and unless someone turns up who is in class X and class Y. Then, until the law is changed, that person can and can’t (legally) do such and such.

There are many other examples, but let me just give you one more. There are many philosophers whose views entail that that there are certain things that are ineffable—Kant (noumena), Nāgārjuna (ultimate reality), Wittgenstein (form, in the Tractatus, Heidegger (being)—and they explain why these things are so. Now, if they can do this, then these things must be effable as well. So, we have a contradiction. Of course, the truth of these particular contradictions depends on the philosophical views in question being correct.

Jacobsen: What are the strengths and weaknesses of traditional logics, paraconsistent logics, and dialetheism-based logic?

Priest: Firstly, the standard logic of our day was invented around the turn of the 20th century by Frege, Russell, and others, and is now called ‘classical logic’. Next, in the last 60 years, we have seen an explosion of non-classical logics, driven by many different considerations. Paraconsistent logics are just one class of these. Thirdly, dialetheism is not a kind of logic, but a theory about what kinds of things can be true. It naturally motivates a paraconsistent logic, but one might be motivated to endorse such a logic for reasons other than dialetheism.

The strength of paraconsistent logics is that they can handle inconsistent data, theories, or other information, without these blowing up in one’s face. Reasoners seem to do this quite naturally all the time. A weakness is that there do seem to be times when it is correct to reason in a way that is classically correct, but not so paraconsistently. The most obvious reasoning of this kind is when we reason by reductio ad absurdum. We assume something for the sake of argument, show that a contradiction follows, and conclude that the assumption was incorrect. A paraconsistent logician owes us an explanation of why this is kosher, when it is.

Jacobsen: If we take formal dialetheism system of ratiocination with the appropriate symbol systems (e.g., ¬, ˜, , ≡, , , !, , and so on), can you provide some formal samples of English sentences or statements, arguments inclusive of the previous sentences/statements as premises, and the dialetheism formal representative counterparts with English-based interpretations of the “dialetheism formal representative counterparts,” please?

Priest: Expressing things in a formal language makes things more precise, but it doesn’t really change matters of substance, so let’s stick to ordinary English. First, a valid inference is the following: if the premises are true, then so is the conclusion. Dialetheism affects what sorts of things might be true, but it doesn’t affect that understanding of validity. It means some of the premises of an inference can be false as well as true, but that does not affect validity. Consider an inference from ‘A and ~A’ so A. If ‘A and ~A’ is true, so is A; so, this inference is valid. It makes no difference if ‘A and ~A’ is false as well as true.

But this does raise the question of what interesting things might be proved from true contradictions. The place where that question has been most investigated is in the theory of sets. Let R be the set of all things that are not members of themselves (as in Russell’s Paradox). And let us suppose that it is, indeed, the case that R is a member of R and R is not a member of R. A number of very interesting consequences about sets follow from this. However, many of these involve technical aspects of the theory concerning, for example, higher orders of infinity. This is not the place to go into them.

Jacobsen: What systems build on top of dialetheism, or may build on top of dialetheism, to advance the research into the system of dialetheism-based logic?

Priest: Perhaps, the most obvious are theories where paradox lurks. Theories of truth and sets are clear examples, but there are others. There’s paradox called the sorites. If someone is sober, and consumes 1cc of alcohol, they are still sober. So, start with someone who is stone cold sober, if they consume 1cc of alcohol, they are still sober. So, if they consume another cc, they are still sober. So, if…. So, by the time they have consumed 500ccs (5 litres), they are still sober. That’s obviously false. You can construct a similar paradox with any predicate like ‘sober’, which is vague in a certain sense. How to handle this kind of paradox is highly contentious, but, certainly, there are dialetheic accounts. The idea is that between being sober and not being sober, there is a borderline area where a person is both sober and not sober.

But there are also theories where there are no standard paradoxes, but which allow for formulations where contradictions June arise. These include theories of topology, geometry, arithmetic. It would take several pages to go into these, so I forego this. Some theories in the history of science have used inconsistent mathematics. For example, the infinitesimal calculus from Newton and Leibniz till about the 19th century operated with a mathematics according to which infinitesimals were non-zero (at one point in a computation), and zero (at another). There are, as far as I know, no contemporary scientific theories using inconsistent mathematics. But we now have many new kinds of inconsistent mathematics, and, perhaps, some of these will find application in the future. After all, scientists will use any bit of mathematics appearing to deliver the right empirical results.

Jacobsen: Also, as you study paradoxes, what are true paradoxes in the fullest sense – no matter the system of logic applied, if such things exist?

Priest: I’m not really sure that I understand what you mean. However, there are many systems of logic—accounts of what follows from what. There is one in which nothing follows from anything. That is, for no A and B does A follow from B, in such a system of logic, you can’t establish anything. A fortiori, you can’t establish any paradoxes. Of course, that’s not a very interesting point. What we want to know is what can be established in the correct logic.

Jacobsen: What are philosophy and metaphilosophy?

Priest: The definition of ‘philosophy’ is a hard philosophical question, and there is no consensus as to the answer. I think that probably the best one can do is to give examples of the sorts of questions that philosophers discuss. Questions like: Is there a god? Is reality always mind-dependent? What is it to be conscious? What is it for an action to be good? How should one live? What is the best way to run the state? What makes something a work of art? How do we know any of these things?

The word ‘metaphilosophy’ is a relatively new one. Its meaning is somewhat vague, but, I guess, that a metaphilosophical issue is one that reflects on what philosophy is, and how it goes about its business. The question ‘what is philosophy?’ is a prime example. The term June be a new one, but metaphilosophical questions have always been an important part of philosophy. They are central to discussions in Plato, Hegel, Nietzsche, and Wittgenstein—to name just some of the more obvious philosophers who have engaged with such questions.

Jacobsen: How does dialetheism apply in the realm of metaphilosophy? This can set the stage for Part Three.

Priest: The most obvious way in which it applies is that Western philosophers have virtually always taken it as a methodological principle that contradictions are not rationally acceptable. Hence, any philosophical theories that have endorsed contradictions have been rejected out of hand. Clearly, this should not be the reaction of a dialetheist. This is not to say that a dialetheist will accept a contradictory theory. They June well think that a consistent theory of the issue at hand is better. The matter of rational theory-choice is a complex one. The point is that a theory is not to be rejected simply because it contains a contradiction.

A small corollary of this is one concerning philosophical hermeneutics. I give one example. The general point is obvious. If one reads texts of Hegel, the most obvious interpretation of various of his views is a dialetheic one. Commentators of his work have often strained to interpret him in some other way, for fear of making him appear irrational. They did not need to do so. They can read his texts in a much more straightforward (and charitable) way. If one tries to force the thought of a dialetheist into the procrustean bed of consistency, what emerges is bound to be a badly distorted view.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Distinguished Professor, Philosophy, Graduate Center, City University of New York (2009-Present).

[2] Individual Publication Date: June 1, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/priest-2; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Gulalai Ismail on Human Rights Defenders, Terror, the “Universal Declaration on Human Rights,” Religion, and Human Nature: Co-Founder, Aware Girls (4)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/05/22

Abstract

Gulalai Ismail is a Co-Founder of Aware Girls. She has been awarded the Democracy Award from the National Endowment for Democracy, the Anna Politkovskaya Award, and recognized as one of the 100 Leading Global Thinkers of 2013 by Foreign Policy. She discusses: authoritarian governments and women’s rights activists; terror and fear; the United Nations and the Universal Declaration on Human Rights; religion; Pakistani Islamic interpretations; a way out; Iceland; science; biotechnology and genetic engineering; biology and technology; biotechnology interests; becoming tired of a field; children’s rights documents as a youngster; and human nature.

Keywords: Aware Girls, ethics, fear, freethinkers, Gulalai Ismail, human rights, religion, terror, women’s rights.

Conversation with Gulalai Ismail on Human Rights Defenders, Terror, the “Universal Declaration on Human Rights,” Religion, and Human Nature: Co-Founder, Aware Girls (4)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

*Interview conducted April 24, 2020.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Have you see prominent women’s rights activists cave or cater to the whims of authoritarian governments because it is too scary, too dangerous, or, if careerist, too liable of a threat to their stature in the society with the title of them as an activist or a rights defender?

Gulalai Ismail[1],[2]: In Pakistan, it is not easy when the state institutions are after you, start persecuting you. Not many people can still opt to continue their resistance. Pakistan has amazing women’s rights activists who are working for women’s rights. In my case, in my situation, one of them became public in my support. A few of them were very supportive. Those who were supportive were in the background. They would not come in public. They would give me different kind of support. It was the non-Muslim public in public. Very few women’s activists and very few civil society organizations in Pakistan. They stood with me. Because they were very afraid of the Pakistan military establishment. Have I answered the question?

Jacobsen: It is a hard question. Because there are multiple layers to it. On the one hand, you did answer it. On the other hand, on some other levels, you did not answer it. There are some cases. You alluded to them. The cases in which an individual women’s rights activist will support certain things, but will not speak out and will work against the aims of rights out of fear, terror.

Ismail: See, I do not think any woman activist works against the rights. But they stay silent. I find this problematic. When an activist, when you are silent on certain issues, because people responsible for the issues are not so powerful, but then you do not question issues for which institutions are really powerful, they have to be held accountable for the issue; and, you don’t speak out on it. There is selective activism. The activism depends on who is the perpetrator of the rights. If the perpetrator of the rights community are the politicians, then you are okay with it. If the perpetrators are the most powerful military institution in Pakistan, then you choose not to act and speak out on it. But then, in Pakistan, it is our 5th anniversary of Sabeen Mahmud [Ed. who was assassinated on April 24th, 2015, at the age of 40.]. She showed her solidarity on the issues of enforced disappearances and missing persons, and extrajudicial killing. She was killed. Malala Yousafzai is another one. There is another woman from Karachi, whose name I am forgetting. She was working on land rights. She was killed by the mafia. So, I will not judge so harsh. I will not judge harshly Pakistani women activists because I know it is a country where you can get killed. Women activists get killed. There are many cases where women activists have been killed. Not every woman can choose to speak up at the cost of being martyred. It is not an easy choice to flee the country, not everyone can do it. I will not judge them very harshly.

Jacobsen: That is a fair point.

Ismail: Generally, I will judge harshly civil society organizations because individuals can be at much more risk. I think civil society organizations have a huge responsibility in showing solidarity to the movement, to the rights-based movements, who are under attack by the Pakistan establishment. Civil society organizations stay silent. In Pakistan, the funding of NGO sector is strictly controlled. There are many bureaucratic barriers to the NGOs and the civil society organizations to access foreign funding and implement their projects. If you are someone who supports movements like ours, then the Pakistan military establishment, the security agencies, will not give clearance. The NGOs or civil society organizations can be suspended. There will be difficulties in accessing funds. The civil society organizations do not get funds. I think that they need to be judged. They need to be called out, “If you claim to be human rights organizations and civil society, then you cannot stay silent while the state is persecuting activists, abducting activists. You still stay silent.” That is outrageous. Most civil society organizations of Pakistan stay silent. They only stand for certain kinds of rights, which the Pakistan military approves. That is unacceptable for Pakistan civil society to work only for those human rights are acceptable to Pakistan military.

Jacobsen: Starting on December 10, 1948, as we both know, the United Nations founded, or put into force, the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights. This, to this day, remains a rather universal document, so aptly titled, and continues to maintain a force in international relations for the increase in a more just and equitable world. At the same time, there is an elephant in the room regarding multiple competing ethics in the world today, as they have in the past. One brand comes in Islamic, Jewish, Christian, Hindu, and other ethical systems, religious ethical systems. Another comes in that which can be found in the United Nations in international humanitarian law or international human rights. Either one provides a window into how human beings should be or act in the world in relation to one another based on a particular conception of human nature. With that, it does seem to boil down to transcendental traditional religious ethics versus secular international human rights morality. The latter incorporates freedom for the former with freedom of religion, freedom of belief, freedom of conscience, while the former does not because, as per the Amsterdam Declaration from 2002, if I remember right, stipulates the for-all-timeness [Laughing] of these transcendental traditional religious ethics. So, as you’re fighting for women’s rights or human rights, more generally, incorporative of women’s rights, what do you note as the long-term challenges between, in the big picture, these two different conceptions of ethics that belie two different images of human nature?

Ismail: Scott, for me, it is simple. You cannot use religion as an excuse to deprive people of their human rights. The human rights mentioned in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights are the universal guiding document for the states, governments, and for the communities. These are human rights. If any system of ethics, if any faith, if any religion, or any system deprives people from their certain rights, that is not acceptable. In the modern world, religion cannot be used as an excuse to deprive people of certain rights or to give some extra privileges to some of society, to give one dominance to one gender or one class of people. No, I think, you cannot use religion at all. For example, religion is used to curb freedom of expression. Blasphemy laws are used to cut freedom of expression to raise questions on religion. In every country, wherever there are blasphemy laws, or laws cutting freedom of expression, or other human rights of these people because one or another religion is not happy about it, I think religions have no place in any constitution anywhere in the country. We need separation of religion from the state and the constitution because rights should not be defined by religion or as religion. Rights should be defined by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and not according to religion. We need not only a secular constitution and secular rights. We need to reclaim secular spaces. As with the examples of the religious fundamentalist sections of the society have gained our political spaces, we, as secular people, need to reclaim secular spaces because this world belongs to everyone, not just the political power, which religious fundamentalists enjoy. We need to reclaim that space. I think, we must be very clear. It is a time of science, rationality, and technology. Of course, it is people. It must be limited to a private matter.

Jacobsen: Are there any parts of religion that you do like?

Ismail: No.

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Ismail: [Laughing] The festivals, [Laughing] I like. Because now, they are the only festivals. I like the festivals. People, for example, in Pakistan claim the people in Pakistan are giving, because they give a lot of money in charity, but most of the charity money ends up in terrorist organizations. Some people are more giving because of religion. When I was in hiding, my family, most of my family, is very religious. When the whole campaign started against me, it started on 23rd of May. I will be celebrating my anniversary. Maybe, you can publish this article on the 23rd of May. It was when I left home. It all started there. I am completing one year of it. They are deeply religious people. My aunts used to do a lot of Quran recitation. They prayed a lot to God for my safety. They find mental peace; they find hope in religion, in those dark circumstances. They can get some hope. When I look back, there is not anything, except the festivals.

Jacobsen: Why are the men given more power in Pakistani Islamic interpretations in general?

Ismail: In every Islamic interpretation that I have heard of.

Jacobsen: [Laughing] Correction noted.

Ismail: [Laughing] There is not a single Islamic interpretation where there is general equality as a norm.

Jacobsen: For the men, in some of these fundamentalist Islamic communities, they must put on a certain persona, a false self. This leaves them constricted emotionally and otherwise.

Ismail: It is Patriarchy. Scott, it is patriarchy and the expectations of the gender boxes the culture has set for men and women. Women must have a certain person and certain roles. Men are expected certain personas and certain roles. It is patriarchy that has destroyed both men and women.

Jacobsen: What is the way out?

Ismail: The way out is equal distribution of resources among the genders and ownership of the resources. Economic empowerment is key. The chances women will be able to get their rights is if they are economically empowered, and having more women in the political spaces. Women in the decision-making, more equal numbers of women in Parliament and state governments because that is where the decisions are made. If women are not part of the decision-making, of course, men will create laws and policies protecting their status quo and powers. Equal portions of women in the Parliament. Equal numbers of women in the decision-making and economic resources for women, too. It is the key for women. Also, the religious-based constitutions, faith-based constitutions, go against women. For women’s empowerment, we need secular countries, secular states. Not just secular states, we need secular societies. If the constitution is secular, and if the society is not secular, then it will support Patriarchy and sectarian violence. It will instill mob violence on the issue of violence if the society is not secular. We need secular society, secular constitution. Also, we need welfare state, not security state, because security states prioritize or prefer war over human welfare. They use religion to implement their ideas to promote their narratives. In security states, the money is spent on tanks and bombs, and defense, and not on human welfare. We have seen this in the corona pandemic. The ways countries like Pakistan will not be able to fight back because most of the resources were spent on security, not human security. We need to redefine security and shift from national security to human security because human security is more important.

Jacobsen: For those who want a good example of a country most robust in their efforts towards equality, I would highly recommend looking at Iceland.

Ismail: Yes, I think [Laughing] they should look to Iceland and all Nordic countries. They can look at the Prime Minister of New Zealand, Jacinda Ardern, to see how feminist leadership looks like, because the New Zealand Prime Minister is an example of feminist leadership. They can look to New Zealand too.

Jacobsen: What is your favourite part of science?

Ismail: Biotechnology, genetic engineering.

Jacobsen: Why those two?

Ismail: I was in school when I first heard of human cloning. I fell in love with the idea of human cloning. I fell in love with the idea of human cloning. Because always, we have ben told God is all-powerful. He created human beings. He is the supreme power because he created human beings. I thought the idea of human cloning gave me a sense, “You know, the human brain is so advanced. It can go to the extent of technology. It can do anything. Science is great.” I love the idea of genetic engineering. I love the idea of taking beneficial genes from one organism and bringing it to another organism for the benefit of the other organism. I love genetic engineering. Also, it has played such a huge role in human advancement in fighting against diseases, even in helping with pandemics as well. Biotechnology and genetic engineering have advanced human understanding. Human cloning is the best thing. It gives the idea of a human brain, how we can advance. I am not saying that we should or should not do something. I am not going into the ethics of human cloning. However, in terms of the science and the possibilities, I find this fascinating.

Jacobsen: Do you think there is any distinction, at the end of the day, between the ways in which nature produces functional systems via evolution – human beings and other organisms – and what human beings create with artificial intelligence or various manifestations of conscious design of organisms, whether animal husbandry or the aforementioned genetic engineering? Do you think there is any real distinction between the technology that we make and human beings and other biology as fundamentally just another form of technology? In other words, the line is blurred.

Ismail: I have never thought about it. However, of course, it is different. I am not very aware of the computer technology and the artificial intelligence. I am not that type of technology person. I am the [Laughing] biotechnology person. There are echo chambers. There are proper ecosystems. I am aware of what humans have been doing to the climate, the Earth, causing global warming, how the impacts of industrialization on the ocean and ocean life. Also, we humans have been cruel to the rest of the organisms and the rest of the creatures of the world. We have not quite destroyed the planet. Of course, I cannot make a comparison between human life and artificial intelligence. I am not the right person to talk about it. I am a very naïve person on it. Yet, they seem like quite different things. What do you think, Scott?

Jacobsen: If I look at the natural world as a comprehensive system, the natural world amounts to the animal kingdom and the plant kingdom. Over time, over billions of years, hundreds of millions of years, human beings and other organisms arise. Human beings with opposable thumbs, binocular vision, flat-balled heels, bipedalism, the ability to stand upright, and very large brains in addition to the development of the neocortex, we have this ability to not only think in relatively general ways. We can then physically manifest the cognitive generalism in the environment. The best evidence of this might be the physical dominance of the surface of the Earth by the human species. The things that human beings create, we call tools. We call technology. We get those through a process called science, in general, outside of trial-and-error. Evolution via natural selection among other selection mechanisms develops functional complicated structure. Those structures yield functions. They can be plural functions, not just individual functions. In those plural functions that evolution produces through these structures that it evolves, it amounts to a form of technology. Similarly, human beings develop structures. Those have functions for us. The direction, or the idea of what those structures are for, will depend on the organism or entity using them. However, if one simply takes a designed structure that can function in diverse ways or in a single way, then it amounts to a technology. Similarly, human beings are like a three-and-a-half-billion-year-old or more iPhone. We have a bunch of function centralized in one unit, in one organism. Same with other organisms. My sensibility is such that the distinction between what we call technology and what we call biology is probably an artificial barrier, where one simply comes about via evolution via natural selection and other selection mechanisms and the other comes about by human conscious engineering. But it is all part of the same comprehensive system. So, to me, the line is more blurred than distinct. Biology and human-created things are both technology emergent in different forms. That is what I can come up with off the top [Laughing]. So, your interest in biotechnology. Where did that start?

Ismail: That started right when I was in school and read this article on human cloning. That is where my interested started. I am still into biotechnology. I studied biotechnology for six years. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I love biotechnology. Biotechnology or sciences, too, are dedicated fields of work. You need to work in a lab. If you are a biotechnologist, it was difficult to my human rights activism because my human rights activism was a full-time job. It required travel. It required going to the communities. I was not able to sit in the lab and do human rights work. That is why I continued the work on human rights. Also, in Pakistan, we do not have research institutes as such. We have a few. The most famous research institute is about agriculture. I was not interested in the agriculture part of biotechnology. I was more interested in the human side [Laughing] of biotechnology.

Jacobsen: You know what, I have heard the same from neuroscientists and psychologists. Over time, they got tired of rats, fruit flies, and c elegans. They could not take it anymore. So, they left the field [Laughing].

Ismail: Pakistan is a huge producer of wheat and cotton. Most of the research was around wheat and cotton. I was not interest in spending time on wheat and cotton. If it was about a research institute about genetic diseases or more human, then I would have continued the career in biotechnology. There are very few women who will have the opportunity to work for human rights like me. I felt this is a bigger responsibility to continue the human right activism work.

Jacobsen: Do you think a lot of this interest in science and ethics came about at the same point earlier in life for you? With the interest in biotechnology and cloning on the one hand, and the interest in children’s rights when your father introduced you to the children’s rights documents.

Ismail: Yes, they were around the same time. There was no secret. I wanted to study science and become a scientist. When I was in school, I was in eighth grade in the chemistry class. In the books, we had physics, chemistry, and biology. Chapter 1 or 2 would be about scientists. Lists of scientists who have contributed to biology or physics, or chemistry. All of them were men. So, I was in grade eighth. I raised a question o the chemistry teacher, “Why are you not teaching about women scientists? Why are there only men scientists in the book?” The teacher laughed at me and said, “They are waiting for you to become a scientist to include your name. You have not become a scientist. That’s why we don’t have a woman scientist yet.” Everyone laughed at me. At that point, I was like, “If that is the case, then I am going to become a scientist. There will be women scientists in the book.” It is the thing I wanted too. I was aware. There are fewer women in science than men. Although, at the time, I did not have the access to information and knowledge, which an eighth grader would have today. I was 13 or 14. I was aware of the gender discrimination in academia. I was becoming more aware. I wanted to become a woman scientist. Now, when there is the corona pandemic, I wish I had not disconnected [Laughing] from biotechnology. I wish I could volunteer in a lab. However, it has been 10 years since I studied biotechnology. [Laughing] They would not consider me legible to work in a lab on coronavirus now.

Jacobsen: What do you think is human nature?

Ismail: What is human nature? This is a philosophical question. Mostly, I think, we are a product of our societies. We are mostly the product of our environments. Whatever we learn from our environment, I do not believe people who say, “Conflict is human nature.” I do not think conflict is human nature, or this or that is human nature. We grow in our families, in our communities, in certain cultures. We learn and unlearn. Learning and unlearning is a continuous process, but mostly most of the people would be products of their environment. If there is any nature, I think that is the nature. What do you think is human nature?

Jacobsen: That is a very philosophical question [Laughing].

Ismail: [Laughing] Why is it a philosophical question?

Jacobsen: It is a good question [Laughing].  

Ismail: Someone who has read psychology may be better.

Jacobsen: Yes. Human nature comes from two places at a minimum. Of course, we have nature-nurture. Everyone understands that at this point. However, the human organism is an integrated system. So, we see philosophical traditions around empiricism and rationality. Human beings, though, are an integrated system with sensory input and rational faculties. As any cognitive scientist will tell you, or simply if you look at a list of cognitive biases, e.g., Availability Heuristic, Hindsight Bias, etc., Dunning-Kruger Effect [Laughing], these are images into how the human mind is deeply flawed and incapable of certain kinds of rational inquiry as a matter of innate disposition. These could be, or can be, overcome with knowledge of them. However, not all the time. Even trained medical experts, they may not use their medical expertise, sometimes. Same for other fields or human disciplines. So, this integrated system of sensory input, limited as it is, and rationality, flawed as it is; they provide a window into what seems like a traditional philosophical divide, which, in fact, is a unified system and, therefore, should be seen as a unified philosophical system traditionally divided into two, empiricism and rationality. These are unified in some sense. They may not be 50/50. However, they are united. In that coming together, more of human nature can be something both innate, in the sense that we have certain equipment that we’re born with, but also the degree to which the equipment is responsive to the environment. Then within all of that, after a certain point, human beings develop a certain ability for conscious discrimination and choice in the world. That is where things become murkier.

The idea of freedom of will, since it may exist or how one defines it, would not be boundless. It would be finite. It would be finite based on capacity limits of the human nervous system and capacity limits in terms of time. How long can someone deliberate with the finite computational system? So, this integrated system bringing together empiricism and rationality depicts a human nature. That is both limited, grounded in the empirical, capable of the rational, and potentially capable of developing a certain amount of freedom and choice while in a closed and synergistic system. So, human nature is bounded in those ways. Then to the cultural question of human nature, yes, certainly, the flavours, the colours, the sights, the sounds, those, in a manner speaking, are human nature. It may be like the linguistic facility or faculty. In that, there is a general underlying structure. Something akin to this unified system described before. What comes out of this are the various flavours of culture in the peoples, we see. Many linguists will note a very apparent, stark difference between the world’s languages, written and spoken, while it is belying a certain very fundamental and close similarity of the system that produces all of them. So, it is a very superficial difference, where there is a quite common system of linguistic capability. Similarly with the various things seen coming out of all forms of human culture, whether religious, political, or otherwise, I would make the same argument for the arts and music. What these are telling us are, probably, in fact, what seem like stark differences between Baroque music and Hip-Hop, they are superficial differences. So, human nature is probably functionally infinite in its capacity to have different combinations of its systems to produce cultures in large groups, but also finite in its structure given by the fact that both the sensory systems that we have, and the rational systems that we have, are, no doubt, themselves limited.

Human nature is akin to a string of premises that I am trying [Laughing] to build here from what we get by the very fact of being born human, and how we grow over time akin to the way a snowflake grows over time. Certain capacities will come online over time and produce this integrated system. The things we find in cultures around the world are reflective of a very common set of simple systems that produce – that are themselves finite – a functionally infinite variety, as we have seen over recorded human history for thousands of years among all peoples. I think, the humanist vision is akin to not looking at the superficial image of the world. Something like ignoring Plato’s Cave, but leaving the cave and looking at what are the simple, finite principles that comprise human nature. So that, we can have a little more humility and a universal vision of what is a human being. It is not a universalism of ignoring the complexity or diminishing it, but valuing it as part of a common set of naturally produced parts of what make up a human being. So, human nature seems to be something both dynamic, integrated, while simple, but producing a functionally infinite set of outputs. That was a long road. I am sorry. I do not have enough breadcrumbs. 

Ismail: That was a very eloquent answer.

Jacobsen: I do not have enough breadcrumbs to get home [Laughing]

Ismail: [Laughing].

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Co-Founder, Aware Girls.

[2] Individual Publication Date: May 22, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/gulalai-ismail-4; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Christopher Angus on Family, Background, Life, Philosophy, Being Christian, and Love: Member, ISI-Society (1)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/05/22

Abstract

Christopher Angus is a Member of the ISI-Society. He discusses: growing up; extended self; family background; youth with friends; education; purpose of intelligence tests; high intelligence; extreme reactions to geniuses; greatest geniuses; genius and a profoundly gifted person; necessities for genius or the definition of genius; work experiences and jobs held; job path; myths of the gifted; God; science; tests taken and scores earned; range of the scores; ethical philosophy; political philosophy; metaphysics; worldview; meaning in life; source of meaning; afterlife; life; and love.

Keywords: Christian, Christopher Angus, family, ISI-Society, metaphysics, philosophy, politics.

Conversation with Christopher Angus on Family, Background, Life, Philosophy, Being Christian, and Love: Member, ISI-Society (1)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: When you were growing up, what were some of the prominent family stories being told over time?

Christopher Angus[1],[2]*: Any such stories mainly revolved around being farmers living in a rural community within the larger context of Canada’s stories and Canada’s relationship with the rest of the world.

Jacobsen: Have these stories helped provide a sense of an extended self or a sense of the family legacy?

Angus: I’m no longer involved with farming, but yes they have. My roots are still there, and after having lived in a fairly large city for a while, I am now back in a rural area of our province.

Jacobsen: What was the family background, e.g., geography, culture, language, and religion or lack thereof?

Angus: My family came from western Canada (western Manitoba to be more exact), with a typical prairie culture and the English language. They were Protestant (United Church of Canada). It was a culture steeped in rural activities such as hockey, camping, hunting, sports, motorcycles, snowmobiles, and the like.

Jacobsen: How was the experience with peers and schoolmates as a child and an adolescent?

Angus: It was fairly good, so far as these sorts of things go. I’ve heard horror stories from others that I did not experience. However, I was suffering from insomnia and hypoglycemia for most of my life, so I wasn’t always functioning at full IQ potential. The hypoglycemia is under control, but the insomnia still afflicts me.

Jacobsen: What have been some professional certifications, qualifications, and trainings earned by you?

Angus: I have a certificate in graphic arts, as well as some other smaller things. I’m mostly self-taught in film, more specifically animated film.

Jacobsen: What is the purpose of intelligence tests to you?

Angus: It was mostly curiosity. I knew that I was above average, but I didn’t have any idea that I would score as high as I did.

Jacobsen: When was high intelligence discovered for you?

Angus: Officially, around 6 years ago.

Jacobsen: When you think of the ways in which the geniuses of the past have either been mocked, vilified, and condemned if not killed, or praised, flattered, platformed, and revered, what seems like the reason for the extreme reactions to and treatment of geniuses? Many alive today seem camera shy — many, not all.

Angus: People are uncomfortable with, or scared of, that which they can’t understand. The typical person cannot understand many of whom are classified as “geniuses.”

Jacobsen: Who seem like the greatest geniuses in history to you?

Angus: I think there were interesting people in the late 1900s who became somewhat lost over time in our current cultures. Their ideas and inventions have been overlooked and even replaced by that which has set us back. Edison is an example. Also, I believe William James has some brilliant insights into psychology, the mind/body question, consciousness, etc, which were later largely lost. I think he’s going to be noticed again.

Jacobsen: What differentiates a genius from a profoundly intelligent person?

Angus: The typical response is that genius is what happens when the profoundly intelligent person does something with their intelligence, acts upon it, as it were. But I think it may be more complicated than that. For instance, people can have brilliant flashes of insight and not do anything with them, or have the resources, time, or freedom, to fully pursue them.

So, I’d think genius is when intelligence works with known information in a way that brings about something brilliant and does something fresh with that information, whether it works its way out in science, the arts, philosophy, or whatever. But I would think there needs to be the necessity of it being at least on the pathway to what is true and real, not something that a person just dreamt up that is actually utterly untenable – I’ve seen that in the high IQ “world”.

There are surely plenty of examples of genius that we will never know about, and there’s plenty that we have accepted as genius which likely is not.

Jacobsen: Is profound intelligence necessary for genius?

Angus: How do we define genius? Some would say that Michael Jackson was a genius musician and performer, but so far as I know he wasn’t of profound intelligence.

I would define genius as the ability to take known information and synthesize it into something new and fresh that others haven’t seen or considered before. I’d say that profound intelligence would be needed for that. Michael Jackson didn’t do that as far as I can see. He had an immense talent on display, but it wasn’t outside of the previous box to the extent of being genius, in my opinion.

Jacobsen: What have been some work experiences and jobs held by you?

Angus: I’ve mostly worked within the artist/animation field and am working on my own films.

Jacobsen: Why pursue this particular job path?

Angus: It’s where my passion lies, what I’m best suited towards doing. Also, I believe it can be my voice in the world, and I believe that the arts and story can have an immense impact.

Jacobsen: What are some of the more important aspects of the idea of the gifted and geniuses? Those myths that pervade the cultures of the world. What are those myths? What truths dispel them?

Angus: I think the most important aspect of the notion of “gifted” is to realize that such people have some different needs, peer issues, and some different ways of interacting with the world, all while often still wanting to maintain some sort of sense of normalcy and safety in society. These needs are real and shouldn’t be marginalized.

The myths are that people with high IQ are automatically “geniuses” who have minds that can figure many things out without error. The truths that dispel them are the fact that so many high IQ people have differing views. They can’t all be right. High IQ can help a person along in many ways, but it can also lead them down a path of getting more stuck.

Jacobsen: Any thoughts on the God concept or gods idea and philosophy, theology, and religion?

Angus: There are a lot of philosophical arguments for God being debated right now, arguments such as the Kalam argument (an updated argument of the uncaused cause), the question of absolute morality, various spiritual experiences, fine tuning in the universe, etc. I actually don’t believe that any of these arguments concretely prove God’s existence even if some of them have more weight than others do, although the question of where the information needed to create consciousness is quite interesting — in order to create consciousness, it surely would have had some sort of comprehension of consciousness and thus either be a higher consciousness or have come from it.

But here’s the thing: although these arguments might not give solid weight on their own, none of them exist in a vacuum. They are all part of a whole. So if we look at these various arguments — and life in general — in a holistic manner, then theism becomes the most tenable (for some the only tenable) foundation by which to view the world.

Jacobsen: How much does science play into the worldview for you?

Angus: I respect science and generally understand the scientific method, but it isn’t my primary inclination. I am much more interested in philosophy, theology, and of course the arts. So, I see science’s value, but Scientism is far from being a trap for me.

Jacobsen: What have been some of the tests taken and scores earned (with standard deviations) for you?

Angus: Recently:

GIFT High Range IQ Test – 158 SD15

Verbatim – 156 SD15

FIQURE – 155 SD15

Jacobsen: What is the range of the scores for you? The scores earned on alternative intelligence tests tend to produce a wide smattering of data points rather than clusters, typically.

Angus: Mid to late 150s SD15.

Jacobsen: What ethical philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Angus: I’m not sure if I accept any of the more “official” views on this subject. I’ll suggest that a healed and healthy human psyche also has a strong and healthy light of a conscience that we should live according to. Of course some have scathed over consciences (or scathed over in certain areas) and it is for those with right conscience to influence society in different ways in response to societal concerns. I think the light of conscience is a divine light attuned to a higher law (does conscience have any validity if there isn’t a higher good and thus plumb line for morality?).

Then there’s the question of who has the healthy psyche and is most attuned to their conscience, but often as things unfold, this can become more apparent as society considers people’s motivations. Thus, this would also leave room for some sort of reasoning as people debate the best response according to conscientious interaction with the information around them.

So, perhaps something like Divine Command Theory. Maybe a soft form of Divine Command Theory with an understanding that there is a divine light of conscience in humanity attuned to a higher goodness, and thus, moral law.

In regards to Divine Command Theory, people could argue that morality should be based on certain religious texts, but of course not everyone believes in these texts (or at least certain ones), and besides, how people interpret them is largely based on their conscience (or scathed over conscience). Added to this free societies consider religious freedoms to pursue or reject certain religious texts or views of value.

So where does that leave us? Perhaps, pursue healing and let the light in our conscience shine bright.

Jacobsen: What social philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Angus: I would say that I lean towards Classical Liberalism. I reject Libertarianism because, although I believe humanity has free will in that we are not bound to a chain of cause and effect but can actually make true choices (our own causes with their own effects — which is another discussion), I do not believe that our will is separate from some mighty strong influences on it. Therefore, although we are free as individuals to some extent, we are also deeply influenced by our environments. But this shouldn’t lead to a social stance which takes away from the individual freedoms that we are capable of attaining. Therefore, I support individual property rights, unencumbered business, and the like.

Related to this, I believe in a rule of law and penitentiary system that is merciful to the human condition when appropriate, but also that treats all citizens equally, and that, when appropriate, can also come down hard on certain horrific criminal behaviour.

So, I think we should consider how strongly we are influenced and respond accordingly, but we should also consider that we do have choices to make with certain moral obligations and a conscience to help guide us and also act respond accordingly to those concerns. Of course, this doesn’t lead to easy black and white answers on some issues. But a person’s psyche within their community, isn’t black and white. This, however, isn’t to take away from the necessity of the above mentioned rule of law.

This answer dovetails a bit with my previous comment about ethical philosophy, so it might be pertinent to add that I see great value in a society or culture having an emphasis on inner healing. This would help with a lot of other issues.

Jacobsen: What economic philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Angus:Capitalism and a free market makes the most sense to me. This along with a slight amount of socialism in relation to roads, law enforcement, park systems, some support of the arts, and the like. There can be a stability with some socialism, but it also doesn’t take much for it to get bogged down, and a free market is more easily corrected by the people who retain more control. Some have never lived with their freedoms having been lost and do not understand the importance of freedom. Others are currently realizing its value and how tenuous it actually is. A free market society is the best economic system to protect freedoms while it can also allow for care for the downtrodden via charities, business endeavors, etc, which work towards that end.

So I see freedom as something which should also be considered in regards to economic systems. Some societies or groups within societies put less emphasis on it than others, which is understandable as each society or sub group can have its own “personality” with different views on how much freedom is pertinent, but we should all agree to never allow it to be lost, and actively protect it.

Jacobsen: What political philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Angus:I believe that the US constitution with its emphasis of putting power in the hands of “We The People” and its attempt to protect this sentiment doesn’t just make the most workable sense, it may serve to help to protect freedom not only in the US, but also abroad. If the US loses its freedoms, then it won’t bode well for rest of us.

Jacobsen: What metaphysics makes some sense to you, even the most workable sense to you?

Angus: I would sit somewhere between idealism (the notion that all comes out of consciousness and consciousness permeates the universe), and dualism.

I believe that there is a profound conscious aspect to the universe with consciousness being key. But I also believe that the natural world is a very real and not a mere illusion created by consciousness, as can be found in Idealism.

To put it another way. I’d align somewhat with panentheism, if one considers it to mean that higher consciousness is in and throughout a very real natural world with its own truly independent conscious creatures, but also above that natural world in a way whereby the notion is very clearly delineated from pantheism.

I’m also not sure if this would lead to animism as I don’t know if all “consciousness” is necessarily the same as found in humanity, or even other creatures. For instance, a rock might have some sort of “life,” but that doesn’t necessarily mean that it can interact.

Jacobsen: What worldview-encompassing philosophical system makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Angus:Would populism count as a philosophical system? It’s of course far from my only belief, but I believe it is currently notable as I think that the rise of populism is quite pertinent to the season that we are in — considering what is being exposed — and that this movement has just begun.

Jacobsen: What provides meaning in life for you?

Angus: My faith. Any other aspect to my life has no value unless it is hinged to this in some way. Without that connection, it is ultimately empty.

Jacobsen: Is meaning externally derived, internally generated, both, or something else?

Angus: It’s both, and something else. We often create meaning based on our interaction with external truths, but they are true. The human ability to do so is also an externally true element of existence. So, our creation of meaning is an attempt to grasp what is true and meaningful beyond us.

Jacobsen: Do you believe in an afterlife? If so, why, and what form? If not, why not?

Angus: Yes. As a Christian I believe in a state of conscious awareness and interaction, in a loving existence with Christ when people accept it. I’ve heard and read a variety of interpretations of this afterlife, and while some things said may have validity, I’m just not in the position to fully accept these views. I just don’t know.

Jacobsen: What do you make of the mystery and transience of life?

Angus: Mystery leads to wonder, and part of the human endeavor is to probe into the mystery in some shape or form, but of course it always goes deeper — everything ends in mystery of some sort. We’ve answered some of the hows, but there’s always a deeper why to these things. Why does beauty exist? Why is there something rather than nothing? Why does love exist in the universe? Those are profound questions not enough people are asking these days, and ultimately I would say that those speak into the transience of life.

Jacobsen: What is love to you? 

Angus: Different personalities receive and give love in different ways, and it’s good to understand this when interacting with different people. Yet in these differing ways it isn’t true love unless there is an element of self-sacrifice.

True love, like true beauty, is far beyond the superficial. Which brings an interesting question — to what extent is love related to suffering and beauty?

I mean, can one attain to a comprehension of beauty with any depth, if they have never loved and suffered?

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Member, ISI-Society.

[2] Individual Publication Date: May 22, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/angus-1; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Distinguished Professor Graham Priest on Family, Education, and Opening One’s Eyes to the Wider Intellectual World: Distinguished Professor, Philosophy, City University of New York (1)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/05/22

Abstract

From the professional website for Professor Priest: “Graham Priest grew up as a working class kid in South London. He read mathematics and (and a little bit of logic) at St. John’s College, Cambridge. He obtained his doctorate in mathematics at the London School of Economics. By that time, he had come to the conclusion that philosophy was more fun than mathematics. So, luckily, he got his first job (in 1974) in a philosophy department, as a  temporary lecturer in the Department of Logic and Metaphysics at the University of St Andrews. The first permanent job he was offered was at the University of Western Australia. He moved to Australia when he took up the position, and has spent most of his working life there. After 12 years at the University of Western Australia, he moved to take up the chair of philosophy at the University of Queensland, and after 12 years there, he moved again to take up the Boyce Gibson Chair of Philosophy at  Melbourne University, where he is now emeritus.  While he was there, he was a Fellow of  Ormond College.  During the Melbourne years, he was also an Arché Professorial Fellow at the University of St Andrews. He is a past president of the Australasian Association for Logic, and the Australasian Association of Philosophy, of which he was Chair of Council for 13 years. He was elected a Fellow of the Australian Academy of Humanities in 1995, and awarded a Doctor of Letters by the University of Melbourne in 2002. In 2009 he took up the position of Distinguished Professor at the Graduate Center, City University of New York, where he now lives and works. Graham has published in nearly every leading logic and philosophy journal. At the last count, he had published about 240 papers. He has also published six monographs (mostly with Oxford University Press), as well as a number of edited collections. Much of his work has been in logic, especially non-classical logic, and related areas. He is perhaps best know for his work on dialetheism, the view that some contradictions are true. However, he has also published widely in many other areas, such as metaphysics, Buddhist philosophy, and the history of philosophy, both East and West. Graham has travelled widely, lecturing and addressing conferences in every continent except Antarctica.  For many years, he practiced karatedo. He is a third dan in Shobukai, and a fourth dan in Shitoryu (awarded by the head of style, Sensei Mabuni Kenei in Osaka, when he was training there). Before he left Australia he was an Australian National kumite referee  and kata judge. Nowadays, he swims and practices taichi. He loves (good operajazz , and 60s rock … and East Asian art.” He discusses: the family background; the larger self; early formation; adults, mentors, or guardians; being someone who hardly ver reads anything; pivotal education; formal postsecondary education; being a Distinguished Professor of Philosophy at the CUNY Graduate Center; the main area of research; and advice to aspiring philosophy students.

Keywords: Cambridge, City University of New York, family, Graham Priest, logic, philosophy, upbringing.

Conversation with Distinguished Professor Graham Priest on Family, Education, and Opening One’s Eyes to the Wider Intellectual World: Distinguished Professor, Philosophy, City University of New York (1)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: For this opening session for the series, I would like to begin with an analysis of the family background of you. The ways in which you became choate, philosophically mature. You made a mark in the philosophical world. A history and a trajectory stems from somewhere, not simply talent or insight. What’s family background or lineage, e.g., surname(s) etymology (etymologies), geography, culture, language, religion/non-religion, political suasion, social outlook, scientific training, and the like?

Professor Graham Priest[1],[2]: I was born in 1948 in the UK, and grew up in post-WW2 South London. I was a working-class kid, and an only-child. My father (George Priest) was a manual labourer in a power station, and my mother (Laura Priest) was a homemaker, though she did part-time jobs sometimes, to help make ends meet. Neither was well educated, but my father worked long hours to support the family, and my other was very loving. I could read before I went to school. We had no phone, car, or even TV (till I was a teenager). There was nothing that you would call high culture in my home. So, I had no idea of art, classical music, drama—and certainly not philosophy.

My mother was a Christian. I have no idea of my father’s religious views: he never spoke about them. I was brought up as a Christian. The church was a Congregationalist one. (I believe that this is now part of the United Reform Church.) Congregationalism was Protestant, not as heterodox as Quakerism, but further in that direction than other Protestant groups such as Methodists and Baptists.

In those days, there was an exam called the 11 Plus. Kids who did well in this were creamed off and sent to Grammar Schools. These were state schools, but were academically oriented. I was lucky enough to pass and went to John Ruskin Grammar School in Croydon. When I was there, I discovered an aptitude for mathematics and decided to go to university to study it. This was made possible for working class kids, since the post-WW2 Labour Government had abolished university fees. At least, they made them payable by local government bodies while providing a cost of living grant. So, my going to university cost neither myself nor my parents anything. I applied to several universities and was accepted by St John’s College, Cambridge. My schoolteachers told me that I would be a fool to turn down a place in Cambridge. So, I accepted and went there to read mathematics.

Jacobsen: With all these facets of the larger self, how did these become the familial ecosystem to form identity and a sense of a self extended through time?

Priest: Going to Cambridge was an eye-opening experience for me in many ways. Perhaps most importantly, I was taken out of my working-class culture and put in a highly intellectual and educated one. So, my eyes were opened to art, drama, philosophy, and restaurants—things. Many of the kids came from wealthy families who had gone to public schools, which is what the British call a private school. It was the first time I had mixed with such kids. So, I was brought face to face with the British class system for the first time: the privileges of wealth, power, and the British establishment. I developed a love/hate relationship with the place.

Next, taken out of a Christian environment, I started to think about my religious views more critically. I concluded: no rational ground for the belief in a god, much less a Christian god, exists. For a powerful example, the extraordinary amount of gratuitous suffering in the world strikes me as much of a knock-down argument against the existence of such a god as anything can be. So, I became an atheist, which I am to this day.

In matters academic: I was studying with a bunch of kids. All of whom were very smart. I realised that many of them were much brighter than me. However, an old school friend put me on to mathematical logic. I became fascinated by the subject. It was not really taught in the mathematics degree, so in my last year I changed to philosophy. In Cambridge, the study of a degree is called a tripos. A tripos has two parts. (Don’t be fooled by the name, it refers to a three-legged stool that students sat on when they were examined in the old medieval university.) I had done Part One of the maths tripos in my first two years, and in my final year I did Part Two of the philosophy (called moral science) tripos, which was the logic option. This taught mathematical logic, but, of course, many of the philosophical issues that surround the subject too. I was at a disadvantage in studying these because most of my peers had already studied two years of philosophy. But when it came to technical matters, I had an advantage because of my mathematical training.

At Cambridge, I met Annie. The woman who became my wife. Our son was born about a week before my final exams. After Cambridge, we moved down to London to different colleges of London University. I did an MSc in mathematical logic, and then a doctorate in mathematics in the same area at the London School of Economics.

By the time I finished this, I was aware of two things: first, that I would only ever be, at best, a mediocre mathematician; and second, that philosophy was a lot more fun than mathematics. I applied for 52 academic jobs in my last year as a research student, and got nowhere. I was about to take a job with the British Gas Board as a mathematician modelling gas-flow, when two temporary university jobs came up at the last moment. One was at the City University of London in the mathematics department; the other was in the philosophy department at the University of St Andrews. And for me, it was a no-brainer. I took the philosophy job. Why they offered the job to someone with virtually no background in philosophy, I still have no idea (though I remain grateful to this day!). They didn’t even have me teaching logic. I taught the philosophy of science.

I continued applying for permanent jobs in the UK for my two years in St Andrews, without success. The first permanent job I was offered was at the University of Western Australia, in Perth, Australia. We decided that we would go there. We thought that we would be back in a few years—and I did apply for several jobs back in the UK, without success. In effect, we had emigrated. I became one of the happy band of Australian philosophers.

Jacobsen: Of those influences, what ones seem the most prescient for early formation?

Priest: Clearly, those things engendering a love of mathematics and philosophy in me. I guess I have to say, also, my working-class background, which has given me a deep distrust of the status quo, in philosophy, politics, and everywhere else.

Jacobsen: What adults, mentors, or guardians became, in hindsight, the most influential on you?

Priest: That’s hard to say. For a start, my mother for her love and nurturing. My high school maths teacher, R.D. Pearce, who communicated the beauty of mathematics to me. One of my supervisors in Cambridge, Sue Haack, who engaged me in the philosophy of logic. My Ph.D. thesis supervisor, John Bell, who showed me, amongst other things, what it was to be a good teacher.

Jacobsen: As a young reader, in childhood and adolescence, what authors and books were significant, meaningful, to worldview formation?

Priest: I hardly ever read anything.

Jacobsen: What were pivotal educational – as in, in school or autodidacticism – moments from childhood to young adulthood?

Priest: My being able to read before I went to school was clearly an enormous factor in my education. Falling in love with the beauty of mathematics, and realising that I was quite good at it was another, I do remember reading one book, which struck me before I went to university: Alan Watts’ The Way of Zen. The immediate effect was to make me take to heart the fact that there were religions other than Christianity. Also, that there were smart people who endorse these. More amorphously, I was attracted to a number of ideas of Zen, as Watts described them. These didn’t have a great effect at the time, but they must have lodged somewhere in my brain, since I happily turned to the study of Buddhist philosophy later in life.

Jacobsen: For formal postsecondary education, in academia, why select LSE, and then Melbourne for the academic path? 

Priest: London because I could do an MSc in Mathematical Logic there, and LSE because I could work with John Bell, whom I met as an MSc student, liked, and got on well with. As I said, after that I had a temporary position in St Andrews, but the first permanent job I was offered was at the University of Western Australia. I was there for about 12 years when the chair of philosophy (chair on the British/Australian sense, not the North American sense) came up at the University of Queensland. I was ambitious; I applied and got it. About a dozen years later, the Boyce Gibson Chair came up at Melbourne University. This was the oldest chair of philosophy in Australia, and the then Dean of Arts said he wanted the new chair to regenerate the department. (It had fallen a bit into the doldrums.) All this appealed to me. I applied and got the chair. To tell the truth, I had had it with the University of Queensland by that time. It had been taken over by a self-serving bureaucracy. This had destroyed collegiality (which I value greatly) and introduced top-down line managerialism. Academic values were no longer important, managers were fixated only on money—and climbing the bureaucratic ladder. Melbourne had maintained its older academic values. I was at Melbourne for about 12 years. By the time that I left, the malaise that had affected the University of Queensland had effected Melbourne as well. (Indeed, such managerialism had taken over, and still maintains its hold on, all the Australian Universities, though this is not the place to go into how and why this happened.) I had become tired of fighting rear-guard actions (which I had done at both Queensland and Melbourne). So, when I was offered a job at the Graduate Center of the City University of New York, I was happy to jump ship.

Jacobsen: As a Distinguished Professor of Philosophy at the CUNY Graduate Center, what tasks and responsibilities come with the position? 

Priest: I teach one graduate course per semester, usually on whatever I choose. I also supervise Ph.D. dissertations by any student who asks me. On top of that, I run a weekly logic and metaphysics research seminar, and often go to other research seminars. Sometimes, I perform administrative roles, such as on the departmental admissions committee. Most of the rest of my time is spent on research, writing books and papers. In connection with that, I frequently travel within North America and overseas to give talks and attend conferences. Finally, there is “service to the profession”: refereeing journal articles, writing references for job applications, reports on promotion and tenure applications, reports on grant applications, etc.

Jacobsen: What are the main area of research and research questions now?

Priest: Philosophy is an enormously broad area, with many sub-areas: logic, metaphysics, epistemology, philosophy of science, philosophy of language, philosophy of mind, ethics, aesthetics, social philosophy, political philosophy, history of philosophy, to name but some of the more standard ones. Research in many topics in all these areas is highly active. There is no hope of going into details in any sensible way here. I, myself, have many different areas of research interest: logic, the philosophy of logic and mathematics, metaphysics, socio-political philosophy, Buddhist philosophy, the history of philosophy—and again in many different parts of these. You can get a more detailed sense of some of the questions I have been engaging with from the publications page of my website: www.grahampriest.net.

Jacobsen: If you could give advice to aspiring philosophy students with an interest in metaphilosophy, what would it be for them?

Priest: It would be the same as I would give to students with an interest in any other area of philosophy. Find some questions that engage you. Try to figure out how you would answer them. Reading a few good philosophers who have thought about the questions is always helpful. Then write it up. (That always helps to get your thoughts straight.) Make your answer clear, and your reasons as cogent as possible. Don’t confuse obscurity with profundity, or simplicity with superficiality.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Distinguished Professor, Philosophy, Graduate Center, City University of New York (2009-Present).

[2] Individual Publication Date: May 22, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/priest-1; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Assistant Professor Simon Olling Rebsdorf on Background, Work, Philosophy, and High-IQ Societies: Assistant Professor, VIA University College (1)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/05/15

Abstract

Professor Simon Olling Rebsdorf is an Assistant Professor at VIA University College and a prominent member of the high-IQ communities. He discusses: growing up; a sense of an extended self; the family background; experience with peers and schoolmates; purpose of intelligence tests; high intelligence; the extreme reactions to and treatment of geniuses; the greatest geniuses in history; a genius from a profoundly intelligent person; some work experiences and educational certifications; more important aspects of the idea of the gifted and geniuses; the God concept; science; tests taken and scores earned (with standard deviations); the range of the scores; and ethical philosophy.

Keywords: background, culture, family, IQ, physics, Simon Olling Rebsdorf, society.

Conversation with Assistant Professor Simon Olling Rebsdorf on Background, Work, Philosophy, and High-IQ Societies: Assistant Professor, VIA University College (1)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: When you were growing up, what were some of the prominent family stories being told over time?

Dr. Simon Olling Rebsdorf[1],[2]*: [My private weblog is here: https://humanlifelab.wordpress.com]

The midwife dragged me into this worldly place in the city of Odense, Denmark, in 1971. Looking back from this halfway vantage point, I still wonder whether retrospective selection of milestones or turning points in our consciously remembered life story do in fact contribute to changing our own self-images into a narrative of someone we would rather like to be, instead of who we are. However, this is a risk as well as a cerebral human condition.

When my parents got divorced, I was five and my big brother nine years old. The divorce took a lot of energy, especially when my age was around 10 and 14. In this period, my parents had quarrels, legal cases about custody rights. Thinking about my grandparents is more comforting. My grandfather was a creative man full of ideas. He was a craftsman working at a lathe, in his own shop business in the attic in central Copenhagen. Very ingenious and skilled. During the Second World War, he decided to hang a hand grenade on the back of the front door to the shop, just in case German Nazi SS troops would enter the courtyard. Illegally, he crafted little pieces for weapons of the Danish Resistance Movement. He was never caught. This is probably the most prominent family story, which was told many times.

Jacobsen: Have these stores helped provide a sense of an extended self or a sense of the family legacy?

Rebsdorf: In some sense, yes. Resistance against authority and a critical mind has been heralded as the norm and a necessary attribute of family members.

Jacobsen: What was the family background, e.g., geography, culture, language, and religion or lack thereof?

Rebsdorf: Danish. My father was born in 1930 in the southern part of Jutland, the Danish peninsula, in a city called Ødis, close to Kolding. My late father’s brother was concerned with genealogy and made a family tree dating back to the 1600 hundreds. During World War 2, my father’s family hosted a young boy, who was a member of Hitler Jugend -the nazi boy scouts – but the boy’s parents had managed to escape Germany and in Denmark, they had found my father’s family to host the boy for some time. I remember my immediate shock when my father told me that had he been raised in Germany instead of Denmark, he might as well have been a conscientious Hitler Jugend boy. His point was a cultural relativist one, and I understood this immediately after some explanation. My father is now 90 years old. He has always played classical music and jazz – he plays the violin, and he is the reason, I have learned to appreciate and play music myself from the age of 5, when he forced me to tale violin lessons.

My father, went to Copenhagen aged 17 to study pharmacy. He ended up becoming a fresh water researcher, even publishing in Nature once. I found out about this in 2018. Without him ever letting me or my family know! How typically humble of him, not mentioning it. In 1999 he co-authored a paper on “Regional Trends in Aquatic Recovery from Acidification in North America and Europe,” Volume 401 Number 6753 pp513-622, (it’s on page 575, name: A. Rebsdorf). On behalf of the National Environmental Research Institute in Denmark.

My mother was born in 1945 and grew up in the island Zealand, close to the Danish capital. Copenhagen, in a city called Hillerød. Her father, my granddad who owned a lathe shop, was extremely protective of his youngest daughter, and was known to hire a private eye to follow her on dates. My dad lived across the street from them and they fell in love. The had two children, Morten, my big brother, in 1967, and I, in 1971. In 1976, they god a divorce and have had several other girlfriends/boyfriends since. My mother studied to work in a kindergarten and has done so all her life. She is now retired. My mother has always been the more creative kind, having us dress up, play, dance, draw and just live out ourselves and our curiosity.

Throughout my life, I’ve had a general feeling that my free choices were ok, no matter what they were. Later in life I’ve realized the importance of this and the role this general outlook has had on my life and life choices.

Going to lower elementary school in the hamlet Bryrup in the middle of the Danish peninsula Jutland, I had a great time until control was lost due to the separation of my parents. Looking back, mathematics, English, natural sciences, music and the Danish language seemed quite easy and all-interesting, but they were not trivial topics to me.

Music was the exception. Playing instruments and singing was effortlessly intuitive to me. I played everything by ear and frowned inside when the other kids could not play the right rhythm or worse, couldn’t remember what we played last week. This was a walk in the park for me. I learned the music notations system three times in my life – and forgot it three times. I never really made use of musical scores. The music has always been kept safely in my mind’s ear and my head is always full of music and sounds.

My dad forced me to play the violin from age five, and later I turned to piano, then electric bass, drums and guitar, now upright bass and piano. Today I am grateful to his stubborn demands of weekly rehearsals in my room. Music has always been my thing. However, whenever I have been good at something, I have kept this experience to myself. [https://humanlifelab.wordpress.com/music]

The Nordic Law of Jante completely imbued my upbringing and schooling: A pattern of group behavior that negatively portrays and criticizes individual success and achievement as unworthy and inappropriate, is what usually made me keep my successes to myself. But it also made me try to do better. I never told anyone when I was good at something. Never. I didn’t want to appear as the archetypical, annoying smart-guy.

Regarding religion: My upbringing has had a clear lack of religion. It is a mystery to me why I was baptized at all. More about this ecumenical topic below.

Jacobsen: How was the experience with peers and schoolmates as a child and an adolescent?

Rebsdorf: I didn’t perceive of myself at all as the brainy child who could read prematurely or solve math problems years ahead of the norm. And if I was, I would never have known, let alone been told. I was just a pretty happy little brother with a creative pre-school teacher mum, and an academic dad researching fresh water resources. I loved being left on my own to discover the universe. Philosophizing, as I learned later, was my favorite activity and my mind was a lively place, an inner world not accessible to others. It was my own world. It provided a sense of control. And nobody ever entered it.

I whole-heartedly believed that everybody else in kindergarten and elementary school were likely to have similar individual inner worlds just like mine, filled with colored numbers, friendly creatures of music, physical sensations of huge, imaginary bubbles of tension when pressing together my middle and index finger, as well as inner dialogues and discussions with imaginary people. This was my world, a warm place of structure, texture, and ethereal, rhythmic sounds and shapes. Later in life, I learned that perhaps my assumption wasn’t true for all the people around me, and this was perhaps one reason why my peers sometimes talked about boredom – a mental state completely uncharted by me.

Five years after my parents’ separation, an important milestone unearthed. A bipolar ‘Barbarossa’ artist befriended my mum and they became lovers. With his long red beard and spiky hair, this manic-depressive, psychopathically-bent artist painter completely took over my mum, deprived her of all her self-esteem to his own personal, economical gain by spending all her money on his art production. Emotionally, this became a very dark period of four years, then a happy kid full of inner life from the outset. But at the same time, intellectually, it became four vital years of research and tremendous learning for me. Despite Barbarossa’s bad characteristics and ill temper, he cracked the physical universe more open for me. Perhaps he embodied a provocative counter-movement against the Law of Jante, which ultimately educated me. A ten-year-old, I flipped through his subscription issues of the Scientific American, and I mimicked transmission gears from technical manuals using LEGO technic. He taught me Goethe’s theory of colors, how to play card games, how to draw human faces using charcoal, and he introduced me to the artist M.C. Escher, promptly turning the Dutch mathematician and painter into my favorite artist, owing to his impossible geometrical works, which I copied and developed further. As a result, mathematical topology became a burning interest of mine, but I just didn’t know the technical term at the time. It all took place on a completely intuitive level by way of paper origami and drawings, e.g. of the three-dimensional shadows of the tesseract, a mathematical four-dimensional cube, or attempts to draw the four-dimensional one-surfaced manifold known as the Klein bottle.

One vital problem was that it all happened in a state of complete loneliness. Emotionally, I closed myself down for self-protection, as Barbarossa took advantage of my mother, so I was left to myself a lot. I philosophized in a great cherry tree, looking down on passing cyclists, often falling asleep between two thick, supporting branches. I craved sacrosanct places for myself, making caves in the woods and hugging my impartial, natural friends, the trees. I had too many feelings everywhere around me, so I reduced the emotional complexity by creating my own quiet spaces and letting curiosity lead the way.

Only last year, by the help of a cognitive psychologist, I have discovered former obsessive tendencies, which I had completely forgotten. The loss of control by proxy of my run-down mother turned into obsessive activities to provide some feeling of control. I counted everything countable around me, I pressed my fingers together to feel myself, I had obsessive thoughts of fate, constantly, yet quietly, I was beating complicated rhythms with my fingers and toes – and then came a horrid fear of darkness.

In addition, I also became a proficient liar. Children of divorce are perfectly loyal to both their parents, and to me this simply meant lying to them – but then I also began lying to my teachers and classmates. I made up immense scaffolds of lies taking up a lot of mental energy. I took my lying to the next level when my parents fought over the legal custody of me and my big brother. In the 80’s, in Denmark, the mother usually won such legal custody disputes, despite any father’s stubborn fight against it. My own father fought persistently, which I only got to know later in life. Sadly, the dispute also turned my father from an academic into an alcoholic academic.

I was so good at lying and setting up facades that none of my teachers believed what I had gone through. But finally, and luckily, my mother left the inspirational yet unhealthy crackpot artist. Today, I believe that the four emotionally dark years also provided me with an intellectual strength and mental capacity that I would never have been without. Perhaps I should thank my mother for her emotional dispositions towards the infamous Barbarossa, even if I have become a skilled liar and professional coward as a bi-product of that period.

Thomas – an odd one out in my class – and me, became friends throughout the last two years of elementary school. And we formed a closed sphere not very open for others. I managed to play cowboys and Indians with my classmates, but with Thomas, there was an opening into a common discovery of the universe by creating and drawing comic magazines, practicing British dialects, dressing up as detectives, role playing, producing soundscapes with a ghetto-blaster and cassette tapes, or creating neologisms for fun. Soon we decided to sit ourselves on the front row in physics/chemistry classes, just to break with the present anti-scientific culture in the class. It worked. Quickly I got better at the hard sciences, and I remember my great preparations for the exam – and my utter disappointment that my friend Thomas didn’t invest the appropriate energy into the topics.

High school was not favorable for my self-worth. I couldn’t decode the system of reproducing facts from the blackboard. What got me through high school was the seven hours of music lessons and playing in numerous bands on the side. Also in high school, I teamed up with the odd one out, Martin, and in this way, I found my investigative companion. Together, we found our own motivation outside our classes. We made up a system of linguistic babble creation that turned into a smash-hit at our high school parties. On stage, we read aloud a new text sounding like normal sentences, yet made no sense whatsoever. Our brief success was likely due to the deliberate incorrectness of the prose as compared to all the rational orderliness crafted by the teachers. Socially, I managed to hang out with the popular people due to my merits as the most proficient bass-player – and a ‘world famous’ babble creator. In retrospect, I regard my high school years as a sort of social compensation for an energetic period of research and investigation prior to high school. If only high school could manage to embrace curiosity and out of the box thinking. My sacred inner world from lower elementary school had been partly sacrificed during high school, and it took me years to gain access again.

Another milestone was a library book on astronomy – and sheer luck. I have never had a plan. Curiosity and immediate lust has been my life-guide and I have always been at a completely loss of direction or ambition in life. An important value transferred from my poor grandparents via my mother and then to me is this: money don’t matter. I still believe this to be very true. At least when you are a Scandinavian kid built into an expensive tax system, world class health care safety, great job opportunities and very low crime rates. My high school result was poor, below average. I had somehow lost my academic grip from elementary school. I sucked. And a downward spiral resulted in low self-esteem and lack of trust in the future. All seemed dark and pointless. I worked in odd jobs and sensed my father’s silent frustration of missing future avenues. After high school, when working as an unskilled painter of some locker room walls at the local gym, I secretly read a large book on astronomy from the municipal library. At nights, I drew the night sky constellations and studied stellar creation. I have eaten all sorts of popular science books since age nine. I devoured the astronomy book in the restrooms of the gym as well as during passionate reading marathons in my rented abode. Completely alone. Whenever the gym manager came to check up on me, I managed to hide the book and lie to him about some technical difficulties hampering my painting progression. I just couldn’t believe that the gym manager believed my lies. But I was a pro, so it worked.

And the astronomy monograph had a momentous impact. The necessary passing grade averages were low for many natural sciences studies at university, such as astronomy. This was my luck. I enrolled at the Faculty of Sciences at the University of Copenhagen. And moving to a college in the capitol was my fresh start.

I felt very alone while in Copenhagen, and I seriously though about just killing myself. But I didn’t have what it takes, luckily. And then came the intelligence test. Much of my bad luggage and suicidal tendencies due to loneliness and academic failure were swiftly wiped away after passing the Mensa test. Indeed, even love life became a reality a few years after practicing the art of flirting. And then I met my wonderful congenial, my wife Charlotte.

My ensuing authorship and research highlights include a six-months research visit at the Astronomy and Astrophysics Department, University of Chicago, including a stay at the Yerkes Observatory in Wisconsin, but also an affiliation with the Morris Fishbein Institute of social sciences. In 2009 I published a 500-page monograph on the history of modern astrophysics in the US and in Denmark entitled The Father, the Son, and the Stars. In addition, I published two PhD-based peer-reviewed research papers in the Cambridge periodical Journal for the History of Astronomy, co-authored two master thesis-based peer-reviewed research papers in the renowned Oxford periodical Studies in the History and Philosophy of Modern Physics, and a peer reviewed article in the international history of science periodical Centaurus. Another rich experience was the co-authoring of a textbook on creative idea development for the teaching of bachelor students of innovation management at the Aarhus School of Business. But my hot dream remains the completion of a literary fiction novel as well as having some of my short stories published. One day, I left academia and have tried many sorts of positions since then. After heading the European Space Agency’s Danish education resource office in Denmark and working as project manager and fundraiser at the House of Natural Sciences, I have been appointed assistant professor at VIA University College teaching and researching higher science education. This seems to be the right spot for now. Our kids are 8 and 10, and it’s like life cannot cease to keep educating me.

Jacobsen: What is the purpose of intelligence tests to you?

I never managed to find the very good response to this question. Having always been rather ambivalent about IQ tests, I have tried to live with this inner dilemma. This means that I tend to think, still, that the urge to belong to a high intelligence society is just a Freudian mechanism in order for the insecure snowflake to find some force and energy from like-minded poor things like myself. But at the same time, I tend to feel that like-mindedness rather strongly, and this feeling cannot be ignored either. The clear over-representation of megalomaniac super narcissists within many esoteric high IQ circles and societies tell their own story of the Freudian mechanisms at work. I have never met so many arrogant brain-bragging and apparently self-contained people as I have met in high IQ societies. At the same time, I have made some deep and rare friendships that I would never be without. Perhaps the sea of brain-braggers is the costs of finding congenial soul gems out there.

The history of intelligence tests is dubious and not only very flattering. However, the idea is interesting and the value of a measured intelligence in some ways or another cannot be ignored. The issue of cultural bias (and many other biases) is very important to constantly articulate. History tells us sad stories of some of the apparent pitfalls hidden in the process of defining intelligence.

High mental capacity is there, though. Its existence is indisputable. It is a great responsibility to host high mental capacity “under the helmet,” and I am full of gratitude and humility. Sometimes it fells like a straitjacket to constantly remind myself that time is of the essence and that action is needed in the real world.

I have been Mensa member many times – and then I’ve terminated my membership again. I stopped as member of Mensa recently once again. I fail to see that the society does good in the world outside this club. It is too closed – but I am fully aware that this legitimizes its existence to many members. In turn, I am very ambiguous about Mensa and also about many other high IQ societies. Disillusion is perhaps what is my issue with them. The intention seems to always be the same – good ambitions and hopes for lively activity to change the world to a better place. The question is, what ends it really serves. In a broader perspective, do all these digital (and somewhat physical) societies provide us all a better world in any way? Hardly.

And how does an exclusive club manage to do anything inclusively to – or for – the world? If we really want to make a change, and not just share funny pictures and anecdotes (and make fun of all the low IQ idiots making our lives miserable, as some members seem to believe) how do we organize in order to take steps in this direction? This bugs me these days.

To what extent are the high range (and medium range) IQ societies representations of real life, and to what extent are they esoteric circles of narcissistic megalomaniacs with low self-esteem in which they can feel better than the idiotic low-IQ world. This outlook is somewhat harsh, I know. But this kind of sentiment is exactly what I felt in some of these clubs I have frequented.

On the other hand, of course, are the many interesting discussions that can be had with like-minded people and clearly this serves ourselves very nicely. Self-service is just not enough for me anymore. We need a bigger perspective. Supporting members to get out of their safe esoteric circles and act in the real world might be worth considering.

Another problem: The idea of genius. If the concept of genius is to be taken seriously, we don’t need a list of current “geniuses” whose only achievement that counts is a formal intelligence test. As a PhD in science studies and the history of science and technology, this is not how genius should be defined. This is not the kind of extraordinariness the world needs, in my view. Genius has its linguistic origin from the latin verb, which means “I breed.” So, from a linguistic perspective, a genius displays unique creative power. There is no necessary connection to a high IQ, although there could probably be a common quantity of creative persons within high IQ circles. But it seems clear that you’d also find a common quantity of people displaying creative power from other parts of society, and hence also from non-high IQ circles. The role on creative power played by nature, nurture acquired skills, hard work and experience is of course unknown. Investigations of rare creative composers indicate that many years of practice is a prerequisite for the creation of masterpieces. A high IQ would clearly not be sufficient, and probably completely irrelevant. I fear that some members of many high IQ societies tend to exaggerate the role of mental capacity with relation to the concept of genius. And remembering that the mark of a genius often goes hand in hand with deepfelt admiration, some insecure and non-creative people with impressive high IQ raw scores may elevate themselves to pedestals that they/we clearly didn’t disserve.

My name figures on the World Genius Directory (160 SD15), but I fail to see why, exactly. There seem to be a set formal IQ limit of 145 SD15. By this somewhat empty definition, I am a genius… But society should be the judge, not a formal IQ test. what is my standing unique gift to mankind? What is my creative power, in comparison to the great masters? I may have displayed some creative power – see e.g. my “Creating Stuff” webpage, but apart from two lovely children, my creations are not to be heralded by future generations as something magnificent. My PhD dissertation is probably the most important (scientific) contribution, which also has some creative power built in, but more importantly, this is the result of hard work and not genius. Earning a PhD is by no means unique anymore.

So, High IQ should not stand alone, clearly. It needs to be combined with other traits such as creativity or high skill performance, talent, and hard work. IQ and skill are not at all necessarily correlated. High IQ might even induce laziness on the poor soul getting a high raw score. Humility works better, I think.

Jacobsen: When was high intelligence discovered for you?

Rebsdorf: A key turning point in my life was passing a Mensa test in 1993 at my first year as an astronomy and physics student at the Niels Bohr Institute, University of Copenhagen. Passing the test transformed me from a low-achieving, near-suicidal, rather lonely and insecure young man into a higher-achieving, self-confident student with an increasing amount of self-respect.

I left the Mensa-club same year, though, and I distanced myself from the esoteric society by presenting my experience at social meetings as a botched taboo event not worth taking seriously. The Danish Mensa society was rather small at the time, and I even made fun of the people in the club and, immaturely, I called them losers. This judgement was perhaps partly due to my cultural background in terms of the infamous Law of Jante, but ultimately, the blame is clearly on me. As Seneca have allegedly and wisely stated, “When you judge, investigate.”

I still fail to remember what made me take the life-changing Mensa test back in 1993. For long, this has been a conundrum to me, as I didn’t regard myself to be neither intelligent, nor high-achieving or in any way particularly mentally capable at that time. For years after the test result, I kept telling myself that I had just rehearsed to becoming skilled at passing the test. I thought that I had simply managed to ‘cheat’ the test. But knowingly, I somehow unconsciously forgot the tremendous impact it had had on all my future performances in natural sciences, and an ensuing career of many different interesting employments with the guiding principle of increasing the scientific literacy in society.

Jacobsen: When you think of the ways in which the geniuses of the past have either been mocked, vilified, and condemned if not killed, or praised, flattered, platformed, and revered, what seems like the reason for the extreme reactions to and treatment of geniuses? Many alive today seem camera shy – many, not all.

Rebsdorf: Their views have conflicted with

  • common zeitgeist (original composers like Arnold Schönberg or Karlheinz Stockhausen)
  • religious dogma (examples are legion, sadly, e.g. Giordiano Bruno and the Catholic Church, Galileo Galilei,… or e.g. the 1277 Condemnation of Aristotelianism), or
  • social/cultural norms (artists like painter Picasso, composer John Cage).

In addition, within scientific circles, of course breaking with scientific standard models/normal science have oftentimes resulted in expelling researchers from the scientific community, until a theory had proven strong enough to survive as a new paradigm.

Some examples of self-proclaimed new scientific paradigms are to be found in High IQ circles. One example is the so-called TDVP theory hailed by its own authors as a new paradigm. I have co-written a highly critical article about this – it is to be found at my research publication overview at ResearchGate. In this article, my cowriter and I discuss central aspects of “Triadic Dimensional-Distinction Vortical Paradigm” (TDVP) by Vernon Neppe and Edward Close. In my opinion, the scientific discipline of physics is the most important part of the study of reality (ontology), almost by definition. It appears that some of the most important premises in TDVP are incorrect. It follows that if the basic premises are wrong or meaningless, the whole “paradigm” must be considered to be wrong and meaningless. I question whether or not this proclaimed paradigm-changing framework, in fact, represents a scientific theory, whether the theory is meaningful and substantiated, or whether it is something else.

This is one example, I think, of the display of the lack of humility and perhaps even disrespect of the scientific profession within High IQ circles. The authors behind TDVP should not be the ones to claim the theory to be neither ground-breaking nor paradigmatic. This job is saved for the scientific community, the test of nature, and history. My, and others’, critical claims opposing their theory have been completely rejected by the authors, which is another clear display of their lack of understanding of the negotiation element of the scientific process. Enough about this. Just an example.

Jacobsen: Who seem like the greatest geniuses in history to you?

Rebsdorf: The canon of the greatest geniuses is easily googled. Figures like Goethe, Da Vinci, Galilei, Newton, Descartes, Kant, Einstein, Bill Gates, Elon Musk and Donald Trump (pun intended) often heralded with a bit of envy by many aspiring intellectuals as the embodiment of their wettest dream: to make huge profit by means of mental capacity. Some other names:

– Georges Lemaître, cosmologist and priest, consciously embracing religion and rationality without mutually confusing of mixing the two incommensurables

– Jens Martin Knudsen, late Danish physicist and life-on-Mars-enthusiast

– Nicole Oresme, late French medieval natural philosopher, of whom I’ve written an article

– Ole Rømer, Danish discoverer of the speed of light, which should have been named after him

– Niels Bohr, for his creation of a creative research environment in the 1920’s leading to the Copenhagen Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics

– Steward Brand, for his early premonition that we need to think on the long term

– Fjodor Dostojevskij, for his fictitious creativity and introspection and clear display of the human condition

– Thom Yorke: Iconoclastic and uniquely creative band leader with a faint singing voice yet rare composing ability

– Avishai Cohen: The most brilliant double bass virtuosi and composer of the present: Exceptional creative ability

– Donald Trump: A political genius. But only if you ask himself. In other words, who has got the right to define genius?

Jacobsen: What differentiates a genius from a profoundly intelligent person?

Rebsdorf: We need an unambiguous definition of the term genius first. Utilizing a thesaurus definition of genius, i.e. “exceptional intellectual or creative power of other natural ability,” the difference either stands out as pretty clear, or the opposite. It depends on your use of the logic “or” in the definition. So, having e.g. tested to be highly intelligent potentially puts a person in the pool of geniuses. Yet it might not be enough. Also, some display of unique creative power of other natural ability is required for the person to qualify. Unless you take the “or” literally. And then you can form a long list of geniuses by simply collecting the names of people with rare IQ test results. This has been done already and can be found on the website “World Genius Directory.” Once fascinated by this possibility, I also ended up on that list with a result of 160 SD15. Yet it is of course likely that my range is somewhere else. Perhaps below, perhaps above. No one knows for sure. And nobody really cares. So, in my view, a high IQ raw score is clearly not enough to qualify as a genius. You need some special super power, creative or other rare ability. Otherwise, how does e.g. great professional skill make a genius, like genius jazz players or classical music composers? Some cases might be found in the intersection between profound intelligence and rare creative ability. Mozart of Bach is a likely example, although we will never know their mental ability or intelligence quotient, will we?

More interestingly, a genius might just be a “truly great person.” My wife would be one of the best examples.

Jacobsen: What have been some work experiences and educational certifications for you?

Rebsdorf: Do you mean passed formal exams and work experience? That’s all listed here:

Work

2020 –            Assistant Professor | VIA University College, Denmark

2017 – 20       Head of ESERO Denmark & Project Manager | House of Natural Sciences, Denmark

2017 – 20       Danish delegate representative | European Space Agency Advisory Committee on Education

2010 –            External University Examiner | Science & Technology Faculty, Aarhus University (AU)
– Philosophy and History of Science, Higher Science Education & Science Communication

2015-2017     Publishing Editor| Aarhus University Press, Aarhus, Denmark

2013-15         CCO (Chief Communications Officer) & Project Manager| House of Natural Sciences

2012-13         Communications Consultant| Regional Hospital Central Jutland

201011         Writing Consultant | Niels Bohr Institute, University of Copenhagen

2008-12         Information Officer | International Centre for Research in Organic Food Systems,
Ministry of Environment and Food of Denmark
– Research communication and research coordination
– Secretary of ICROFS’ National Programme Committee in the period 2008-2010.

2007-08         High School Physics Teacher| Eux, Viborg, Denmark

2004-06         Postdoc| Centre for Science Education, Aarhus University

2001-04         PhD Graduate| Centre for Science Studies, Aarhus University

2000-01         Creative Idea Developer | Danish Technological Institute, Denmark
– Facilitating idea development, project management, advising inventors, negotiating with companies and inventors on intellectual property rights.

Education

2018              International Business Academy – IBA Kolding | Fundraising Manager
Academic Education in Communication and Dissemination: Fundraising & lobbying, strategic fundraising and partnerships, financing opportunities, financing, 10 ECTS, grade: A.

2014                NGO-Project Management | Project Management, Leadership, Coaching and Strategy
Practicing project management: Resource management, team management, conflict management, personal management, 10 ECTS, grade: A.

2008                Higher National Diploma in Journalism | Danish School of Media and Journalism
Media studies, press law and ethics, language in the media, journalistic idea development and research, journalistic dissemination, presentation techniques.

2004                Doctor of Philosophy (PhD) in Natural Sciences (Science Studies) | Science & Technology,

2001-2004     PhD Graduate| Centre for Science Studies, AU, Aarhus University

– The PhD project (Amazon) was a study of the development of astrophysics in the 20th
Century. Focusing on the Danish professor of astronomy Bengt Strömgren (1908-1987), in
the USA formerly known as “The Great Dane” amongst scientists, the dissertation is a
biographical study, investigating Strömgren’s life in science and the development of
astronomical and related fields. The project includes institutional and technological
developments and the international astronomical networks of scientists and science-
politicians. At the same time, it is a comparative study of two local contexts, the Danish and
American observatories and the scientific networks of the field of astrophysics.

2000                MSc in Physics | Science & Technology, AU
– Teaching skills of high school physics

1998    BSc in Physics | The Niels Bohr Institute, University of Copenhagen

Jacobsen: What are some of the more important aspects of the idea of the gifted and geniuses? Those myths that pervade the cultures of the world. What are those myths? What truths dispel them?

Rebsdorf: I have already embarked on this question above.

Jacobsen: Any thoughts on the God concept or gods idea and philosophy, theology, and religion?

Rebsdorf: I belong to the agnostic and atheist branch, but certainly NOT anti-theist. The world need no more missionaries, religious or anti-religious. E.g. Richard Dawkins’ choir of non-believers is not productive. Mocking religious people is futile. Science and religion are incommensurable in the sense that a rational argument is given little weight by the faithful, and the religious narrative is given little weight by the rationalist. What we need is mutual respect – and the freedom to believe and think what we want, as long as it is not illegal, and as long as we can keep it to ourselves (or at least away from educational institutions) and stop brainwashing our offspring and the young generations.

I hope that my own children, now aged 8 and 10, will choose not to be baptized (most likely there is just one realistic alternative to choose from: the Christian Lutheran), but it is completely their own choice. I have shown them the world map of religions just to present the clear display of hefty cultural-geographical bias – and we have discussions about the roots and apparent needs of religion, the idea of god and the concept of creation ex nihilo, the humanly biased need for a primus motor and our dislike for infinity before and after the ever-flowing present moment. Kids love these kinds of subjects, if we hear them out.

Jacobsen: How much does science play into the worldview for you?

Rebsdorf: Very much. Working for increasing the scientific literacy as well as the interest and motivation for science and technology has been a guiding principle and the core of my professional working life since 2000. It is important and meaningful to me. And science leads the ways when it comes to training critical thinking, a commodity in general decline. We need a new enlightenment.

Jacobsen: What have been some of the tests taken and scores earned (with standard deviations) for you?

Rebsdorf: Life-time member of a number of intellectual societies (links given) – a crazy collecting hobby of mine, mostly involving puzzle solving but also some (digital) socializing on online platforms. Below you have it all. So, long and not very interesting list:

≥ 160, SD 15:

[150; 160], SD 15:

[140;150], SD 15:

[132; 140], SD 15:


< 132, SD 15:

Numericore test result.

Jacobsen: What is the range of the scores for you? The scores earned on alternative intelligence tests tend to produce a wide smattering of data points rather than clusters, typically.

Rebsdorf: See above. In short: 132 < X < 161 (SD 15)

Jacobsen: What ethical philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Rebsdorf: I am not sure how to interpret this question.

If you mean which established (or home-spun) moral philosophies that I tend to cling to, then perhaps – and somewhat surprisingly to many – a selection of the fundamental tenets formulated in modern satanism (Yes, but in an iconoclastic version completely devoid of the ridiculous biblical embodiment of evil named Satan) combined with Kant’s moral philosophy are good picks. Philosophical ethical ideas could thus be turned into human virtuous practice by including the message of the following inspiring moral principles:

  • Deontology and Virtue: The rightness or wrongness of actions does not depend on their consequences but on whether they fulfill our duty, the categorical imperative
  • Benificense, Least Harm (what is right and good): One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason. Not only existing creatures, but also past and future, unborn creatures (the lack of action on a basis of empathy for unborn generations is one of the greatest challenges of our time, technologically as well as ethically, I believe)
  • Nature: As completely dependent – and intricate parts of – Nature all humans should strive to act accordingly with respect and humility
  • Justice: The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions. Still, we need to abide to the law, national and international
  • Respect for Autonomy: The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend (and take the consequences). To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one’s own. Respect different views of virtue.
  • Human Knowledge Morality: One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one’s beliefs
  • Human Fallibility: People are fallible. Of one makes a mistake, one should do one’s best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused.

Some very important virtues and imperatives are also found in many religions, but in my view that to some extent include messages comparable to the above practical working tenets.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Assistant Professor, VIA University College.

[2] Individual Publication Date: May 15, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/rebsdorf-1; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Gulalai Ismail on International Humanitarian Law, Human Rights, North Waziristan, and Being the Most Dangerous Person in Pakistan: Co-Founder, Aware Girls (3)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/05/15

Abstract

Gulalai Ismail is a Co-Founder of Aware Girls. She has been awarded the Democracy Award from the National Endowment for Democracy, the Anna Politkovskaya Award, and recognized as one of the 100 Leading Global Thinkers of 2013 by Foreign Policy. She discusses: reportage in North Waziristan; most dangerous person in Pakistan; Pashtun Tahafuz Movement; human rights and humanitarian law; freethinkers; most dangerous woman; and a lifelong commitment.

Keywords: Aware Girls, freethinkers, Gulalai Ismail, human rights, North Waziristan,  Pashtun Tahafuz Movement.

Conversation with Gulalai Ismail on International Humanitarian Law, Human Rights, North Waziristan, and Being the Most Dangerous Person in Pakistan: Co-Founder, Aware Girls (3)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

*Interview conducted April 24, 2020.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: You did some rights work and reportage in North Waziristan looking at the cases of women who were raped or sexually assaulted by security forces of Pakistan. What were some of those findings? And what was some of the protest you gave over those acts of the police forces? Also, what was the reaction of the police force or the state forces?

Gulalai Ismail[1],[2]: It was January 2009, when I saw a video on the internet. It was a video of a small boy. Maybe, he was 11 years old. His name was Hayat. In that video, the young boy was saying that he was from North Waziristan. He was saying that his brothers had been picked up months ago by security agencies. However, their home was continually barged into by the security forces. He mother was harassed regularly. He was so fed up with it. When this video came out, there was a lot of anger about the issue of harassment by security force. The security forces tried to shut down the woman. They tried to claim this was a lie, etc. The mother of the little boy, she presented herself in a local council meeting with local elders. She gave a testimony. She said, ‘It is true.’ She is regularly getting harassed by security forces. Home is regularly getting barged into by security forces. Her husband and son have already been taken by the security agencies, as in missing persons. Victims of forced disappearances. A s women’s rights activist, I felt a responsibility. When she spoke about sexual harassment, in a tribal area, where women do not have access to public spaces, where there are not enough schools and the literacy rate is really low with women’s less than 10%, they do not have access to media. There is not internet.

The government has still not given the right of the internet to people of Waziristan. There is not internet over there. It is a complete information blackout area. A woman who is so brave and courageous stood and spoke out against sexual harassment. As a women’s rights activist, I felt a responsibility to go visit her and show solidarity with her. To tell her, she is not alone. I, along with other women activists, I went there to meet her. When we went there, dozens of women came to see us. We were told a number of stories of sexual harassment by the security forces. Also, some of the women claim that some women have been abducted aby security forces. Those women have never been given back. They have not been returned to their families. We got to know the story of the woman who was part of a later incident. It was a policy of the state security agencies. It happened regularly. It was a common policy. The women from the area, it is such a taboo for a woman to be in public spaces all around Pakistan. Every woman in Pakistan is not comfortable to be on media. They are not even allowed by the men in the community and the family to be on the internet or to give any interview. This one woman was very brave. She had a small piece of paper with 25 lines on it. She said that she wanted to give the media an interview. Her husband had been picked up by the security agencies. The security forces keep barging into her home. They come and harass her every time. She drew one line on this paper for every incident. She had this paper with 25 lines marking every time of the harassment by the security forces.

This helps us know sexual harassment is either a policy or the security forces keep on enjoying immunity for the crimes committed against women in the areas, where they are engaged in military operations. Of course, in Pakistan, the mainstream media is not allowed to cover any issues in which people are critical of the Pakistani military. Also, the mainstream media is not allowed to give coverage to any activist of the movement known as Pashtun Tahafuz Movement. We were not given coverage. The story was not given coverage on any mainstream media. Of course, there are some channels like Voice of America or Europe Radio, which gave coverage to the story and gave voice to the issue. We also wrote letters to the international commission on the status of women to take notice of it. To make sure justice is done, the reconciliation commission should be established. Nothing was done. Instead, activists who went there. I went there. I started experiencing harassment by state authorities. A few days later, I was arrested from a protest. We were doing a protest against the murder of a peace activist. Right from there, I was arrested. We were all arrested, who were doing the protest. I was made a missing person. I was kept incommunicado for almost 48 hours, for two days. My family did not know where I had been kept. No one was given any access to counsel, to a lawyer. Soon after it, the crackdown started against me, which never ended. I was released. Even then, I was released only after immense international pressure. Even after the release, the crackdown did not stop.

Then when I highlighted the issue again in May of 2019, I highlighted the issue when protesting against the rape and murder of a 10-year-old girl in Islamabad, which is the capital of Pakistan. We were protesting this. She was raped and murdered by someone in the neighbourhood. The police had not lodged a complaint of the girl gone missing. When the girl had gone missing, they went to the police to find their girl and file a complaint. The police refused to take the complaint, ‘She must have eloped with someone. So, we won’t take the case.’ A few days later, she was found dead and raped. Then the hospitals were not even willing to do her post-mortem. So, a protest was happening. Civil society was doing a protest against it. In the protest, I highlighted the issues of sexual harassment in North Waziristan. [Laughing] For that, I was booked under a case or clauses under the anti-terrorism laws of Pakistan for defaming Pakistan military and for promoting ethnic violence, for engaging in treason, which is a life sentence. I do not know what they would have done if they had arrested me. Soon after the speech, I became the most wanted terrorist in Pakistan. I was highlighted as a terrorist, as someone who is a terrorist. Soon, they started raiding our homes. The digital surveillance was started. My parents were under digital surveillance. The raids were not any raids.

We are talking dozens of commandoes and police who raid our homes, check our homes, every corner of the home, harassing my sister and siblings and parents who were home; they took our mobile phones. We had CCTV cameras installed in our home. Those were taken from our home. Every few weeks, our home would be raided as if it were the home of the biggest terrorist or the headquarters of the biggest terrorist organization in Pakistan. Similar raids were done on my relatives’ homes. Soon, we got to know. My name was put on some state kill list. I was on a blacklist. Before that, my name was added on some personal special interest list. I used to be investigated, interrogated, by the counter-terrorism department of the special investigation agency of Pakistan. It was non-stop for more than a year. It has been a non-stop harassment by the state. I risked disappearances, booking me in cases of terrorism. It has been crazy. The past one-and-a-half year has been really crazy.

Jacobsen: If stated to Pakistan as the most dangerous person, let alone women but person, in the country, many people know the name and know the purported crime. I would assume statements were made in public by them, about you, about then movement you are involved with, or about your organization. If any, if my assumption is correct, what were they?

Ismail: The movement has always been presented very negatively in the mainstream media because the mainstream media is not allowed to invite us or members of the movement. They discuss us. They portray us as traitors. In April, it was the 29th of 2020. The director of the ISBR, the media public relations wing of Pakistan military. The director or the spokesperson of the Pakistan military, he did a press conference and threated the PT movement saying, ‘The time is up for the PT movement. It is time for action.’ His famous sentence, “The time is up for PTF.” Shortly after the press conference and the statement about strict action taken against us, and we’ve crossed the red line and will not be tolerated anymore, many videos emerged online on YouTube saying, “The time is up for Gulalai,‘ and two others. This was the kind of statements that were given about us. They were always threatening and outrageous statements against our basic rights, our fundamental rights. Besides this, when I was still in hiding because of the situation created for me, my life was at risk. Imran Kahn was visiting the United States. He was giving a speech in the United States Institute of Peace. He was asked about me and the crackdown about me. He started using the question as an excuse to promote more propaganda against the movement. He did not answer the question and promoted more propaganda against us over there.

One of the unfortunate situations for us is the political leadership have not come forward. In a way, they should have come forward in support of the movement. They have not come forward against the crackdown against us, in the way they should have come down against the crackdown against us. The political parties did not take a strong stand in support of the movement because, in Pakistan, the elections are engineered b the Pakistan military agency. Anyone critical of the military agency are afraid that they will not win and will not be able to get into the Parliament. They do not put themselves in trouble by questioning, or issuing support in solidarity with people like me or the movement. It is unfortunate. If there was any talk, then it was negative and only negative statements of propaganda.

Jacobsen: For the Pashtun Tahafuz Movement, what is the history there? Of course, you have Pashtun heritage. However, in Pakistan, this is a particularly sensitive issue. One, as you have noted, among many others with some overlap and, in other ways, not. What is the status of the movement? What is the trajectory?

Ismail: The history of the movement is after 9/11, the militant organizations started to organization in the Northwest of Pakistan. The state let them organize. The state hesitated and let them have access to resources because they were a strategic asset of Pakistan. They tried to establish Islamic state in Pakistan. They were killing people, even attacking the government institutes. Military operations started against them. Many more military opens have been dozen affecting millions of people. Millions of people are displaced from their homes. Most of them were displaced on very short notice. Not enough support was provided to the people who were displaced. They were not even given the label of Internally Displaced people. Because when you are given the label, the certain rights apply to IDPs, Pakistan avoided it, even called Intermittently Displaced People., or ITTPs or something to prevent them from having rights of displaced people. Thousands of families, even today, are living in those camps. They are not able to return to their homes. The camps were more like concentration camps. They are guarded by the military, the Pakistani military. They are not controlled by civilians. The civil society is not allowed to enter the camps and meet with the people inside the camps. Political parties are not even allowed to visit these camps. Only the military controls it. Landmines were used, which are against international law. No landmines, no excuse can be used to fill whole villages with landmines, even if you are doing a military operation. However, dozens of people have lost their lives. Dozens have people have been disabled because of the landmines.

Then extrajudicial killing is another phenomenon that emerged. Extrajudicial killing was done not just in the tribal areas of Pakistan, but all over Pakistan. When killed extrajudicially, they would be labelled “terrorists” rather than be given a free and fair trial. Hundreds of them were killed in fake police encounters. They were not real police encounters. They would be abducted, tortured, and killed, and the dumped, and then a fake police operation or encounter would be staged. Then the this would be labelled the “terrorist running away, so he was killed by the state.” Most were killed extrajudicially and were innocent people who do not have any link with a terrorist organization. Thousands of innocent people were killed extrajudicially. If you look at the whole military set of operations, not a single leader of these terrorist organizations was killed in these military operations. Who were these people? These were never shared with the public. Who were these terrorists who were killed? How did the Pakistani military come to the conclusion that this person was a terrorist? No kind of information was given to this day. No one knows, never even names have been given, the information has not even been given to the Parliament. There is one parliamentarian who belongs to the Pashtun Tahafuz Movement.

He has raised questions in the Parliament. He asked the Defense Department to give him the list of the terrorists killed in military operations because more than a dozen have been done. He wants the list. Not even the list of names of people has been provided. Similarly, extrajudicial killing and enforced disappearances became a big phenomenon. Most of the people, even if someone is not innocent, you cannot make them a victim of enforced disappearance. So, thousands of people became victims of enforced disappearances. They are brought internment centers. They are not given the right to a free and fair trial. They are not given the right to access family. They are not given the right to access to a lawyer. Once someone has gone missing, I have met families whose family members are missing for years, for 10 years, for 14 years. They do not know where they have gone. Enforced disappearance is another issue with targeted killings too. The local head witness and the Pakistan military, itself, has allowed terrorist organizations organize in their villages and to kill the local people. No action will be taken against the terrorist organizations, except in the name of military organizations crimes were committed. All of the human rights abuses were committed by Pakistan state military during the war against terror.

Jacobsen: With the lack of transparency with the public comes the basis for a lack of accountability to the public and to the international community, especially around human rights and humanitarian law, what is the status of freedom of expression and freedom of the press in Pakistan?

Ismail: If you speak about the tribal areas of Pakistan, then there is complete informational blackout. There is no T.V. There is only in some parts where you can listen to radio. No T.V. and no internet, the Pakistani government and the Prime Minister of Pakistan speaks so much about the lockdown of Kashmir. He speaks so much against the shutdown of internet in Kashmir. In the tribal areas of Pakistan, this has been like this forever. I do not if internet was ever even given to the trial areas of Pakistan. So, there is complete informational blackout in the tribal areas of Pakistan. In the rest of Pakistan, the situation for freedom of expression is really difficult. It is dire. There is no freedom of expression for voices of dissent. People who are dissidents. People who think differently; people who are critical of the state policy. In Pakistan, only religious clerics has freedom of expression. Only terrorist organizations have freedom of expression. Only banned terrorist organizations have freedom of expression. Human rights activists and common people do not have freedom of expression. IF they dare to use freedom of expression, like my father, then they are booked for cases for terrorism or cybercrime. The cybercrime case filed against his because he has been accused of speaking against the government. In the whole civilized world, you would not put someone in prison because they are being critical of the government. The FIR of my father says that he has been charged for cybercrime because he has speaking against the government. So, the regressive laws like cybercrimes laws and anti-terrorism laws of Pakistan are used against voices of dissent. I am not the only dissident. I am not the only human rights activist who had to flee the country to save my life. Many dissidents have to flee the country, to leave the country, to save their lives. There is a huge community where so many people had to leave Pakistan because it was no longer safe for them living in Pakistan. It was because of their political opinions. They were no longer tolerated in Pakistan for their political opinions.

Jacobsen: How many cases of humanists and others of a similar freethinker stripe, given the information blackout when bad things happen to them, whether injury, death, or otherwise, simply go unnoticed via the information blackout?

Ismail: I do not know how many cases go unreported, Scott, to be honest; because if there is no information, I don’t know the real figures. However, based on the religious fundamentalism and the support militants have enjoyed, I am sure many cases go unreported. The data available, I am sure this is unrepresentative and the persecution by state authorities and by the community is much greater.

Jacobsen: Are you still considered the most dangerous woman from Pakistan?

Ismail: Well [Laughing]…

Jacobsen: …[Laughing]…

Ismail: …just last week, Pakistan submitted an appeal in the court asking to cancel the appeal of my father, as he was booked on a cybercrime case. He is on bail now. But Pakistan is trying to cancel the bail of him. He has been tortured and persecuted because he is my father. In January when my mother received a letter, she is on the Exit Control List. This is based on my being the most dangerous person in Pakistan.

Jacobsen: This title, the most dangerous woman in Pakistan, whether a formal title or informally implied, is going to follow you for the rest of your life. This is not something that just goes away.

Ismail:  Yes, I think those who are ready for war. Those who support terrorism. Patriarchal institutions too, I am glad that they see me as the most dangerous person.

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Ismail: They should be really, really afraid that, now, they have a strong woman who is out there to expose their agenda [Laughing].

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Ismail: She will not sit back. Until, they are all held accountable. I am glad that they think I am dangerous.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Co-Founder, Aware Girls.

[2] Individual Publication Date: May 15, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/gulalai-ismail-3; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Uwe Michael Neumann on Travelling and Youth: Member, CIVIQ High IQ Society (1)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/05/08

Abstract

Uwe Michael Neumann developed a love of photography when he got his first camera, a Polaroid, at the age of eight years old. From 1982 to 1988, Neumann diverted from photography, studying law at Cologne State University. But his love of photography, driven by curiosity and the desire to see new things and discover and show their beauty, always called him back. He conducted his first photo tour in Provence, France in 1992. In 1998 he visited New York where he further developed his photographic style; experimenting with verticals and keystone/perspectives. Launching into the field of international cooperation he combined his daily work with his photography in Albania, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Estonia, Georgia, Finland, Macedonia, Moldova, Montenegro, Norway, Poland, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Sweden and Ukraine. In November 2014, Neumann attended the wedding of a daughter of the Sultan of Foumban, Princess Janina, in Foumban, north-west of Cameroon. There he met and became friends with the famous French photographer and producer, Alain Denis who inspired him to become a professional photographer, instructing him in portrait and landscape photography. After his life-changing visit to Cameroon in 2014 Neumann returned there in February 2015 taking photographs of Central Africa’s unique nature and everyday life, which differed greatly from Europe, and even tourist destinations in Africa like Kenya and the Republic of South Africa. During his stay in Central Africa, he lived in Yaoundé, Cameroon and travelled frequently to Equatorial Guinea, the Central African Republic, Gabon, Chad and Congo Brazzaville, among the poorest countries in the world. He also visited and photographed Algeria, Kinshasa (Democratic Republic of Congo), Benin, Kenya, Egypt, Mauretania and the Republic of South Africa. Neumann focused on often-overlooked treasures in nature, the environment, and beauty in places seemingly dominated by poverty. In October 2017, Neumann returned to Berlin and worked on over 90,000 photos from Africa, launching his first exhibition in May in ‘Animus Kunstgalerie’, Berlin. In October 2018 his exhibition ‘Inner Africa’ in GH 36 gallery in Berlin was focused on Central Africa displaying not only a huge variety of photographs, but also traditional masks from different regions. In 2019 and 2020, other exhibitions at Bülow90, Berlin and Nils Hanke, Berlin followed. In Ghent, Belgium, he was a speaker at the European Mensa Meeting 2019 on Africa and presented some of his works.  He was also invited to present his works in the online exhibition e-mERGING a r t i S T S. and again at GH36 in the exhibition No Time. One of his photos was on the title page of the Norwegian magazine Dyade in 2019. His photos have also been featured several times in the online Magazine Foto Minimal & Art. In December 2021 his works were part of an exhibition at Basel Art Center in Basel, Switzerland. He discusses: background, photography, Yaounde, and the high-IQ mental lifestyle.  

Keywords: Cameroon, IQ, photography, Uwe Michael Neumann, Yaounde.

Conversation with Uwe Michael Neumann on Travelling and Youth: Member, CIVIQ High IQ Society (1)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: So, we are here today with Uwe Michael Neumann. If individuals are in some of the High IQ communities and examine some of the biographical and online information, the one thing that comes straight to the fore, for me, is the extensive amount of travel that you’ve done, in terms of doing the photography. So, I guess my first question would be, did you travel very much as a youngster? When did visual arts, photography become very important for you?

Uwe Michael Neumann[1],[2]*: Yes. They became important for me. I was always a visual type. And I got my first camera, I think, when I was eight or so. That was a Polaroid, you could press the button and then the photo came out at the bottom of the camera. So, yes, I was not continuously doing photography, but from time to time. But I was always interested in that. So, yes, I was not so much travelling because my family was not particularly with the science, so to speak. The modest background, so, the only trouble we had was through Austria in the holidays mostly when I was a kid. And also, later as a student, I couldn’t afford travelling too much. So, actually, when I was studying law for five years, I couldn’t travel anywhere. I didn’t travel at all.

And so, when I made my first money, I started travelling to France and then I started at some point working in southeastern Europe. So, I very often took my camera with me. And I saw a lot of different small countries here, but they are quite different to Germany because they have been part of the Soviet bloc somehow. So, they have a different development. I was also in Albania, which was completely isolated during the Cold War. They were allied with China, at least formally. And then somehow this developed, and at some point, I wanted to go to Africa. My ex-wife and me, we had friends there. It came up. I also made friends in central Africa. Also, some years before I had been at a conference in Bordeaux, in France. And for me, as a German, it was very interesting to see when you went at the French conference. They have guests or they have corporations with their former colonies.

So, I was at a conference of the French trade union, but there were many people from Africa because they are connected still. And I don’t know the exactly how that goes exactly, but they are also involved in – let’s say they were there. So, I made friends with a guy from Mali. I still have the contact now. It was 20 years ago. We are still writing each other. So, I’m also interested in how it’s going on there because when you follow the official media, you don’t get so much information about, not so much precise information, about certain countries or Africa. So, I was always keen to work on that. At some point, I got the contract to work there for three years as a project leader. So, I also, of course, took my camera with me and started taking pictures of Africa.

Actually, before we were invited to a marriage of an actual princess and an actual sultan, so, in Cameroon, you have these official structures or the modern state structures, but you have also the traditional structures. So, you have also the sultan of a region in the northwest. So, he’s also a senator. So, he has two functions. He has a state official function and then he’s also officially the sultan. We were invited to a marriage of one of his daughters, a princess. And it was really like a fairy tale, somehow. When I worked there, my house was in Yaounde. My office was in Yaounde, which is the capital of Cameroon, but I was also responsible for the five other countries (Chad, Congo Brazzaville, Gabon, Equatorial Guinea, Zentral African Republic).

So, I did a lot of traveling not only by plane, but also by car. We went through the jungle. We went through the borders; and we passed the border controls. So, that is quite an interesting experience. When you come from Europe, you could at least travel before corona without any problems. You just drive over the border; and there was no border control anymore in the last years. And in Cameroon, Africa, there is really strict border control that takes you one hour to get through, let’s say. And they have their procedures and their forms; and it’s very slow. And they have fences; and it’s like in the Cold War, basically. So, yes, that reminded me a little bit of the wall because when I was young, with my family we went to East Germany. It was also like that. You had to apply in advance a month before to go to East Germany.

And you have to prove that you have relatives there and you had to change money. And then there was really a border wall; and there were fences; and there were controls. It was taking lots of time, half an hour, one hour,. The fence, of course, and it’s unimaginable. Now, you just go through; and you don’t see anything anymore. But there was a real wall, of course. So that was also very exotic because the lifestyle, the way of living in the former German Democratic Republic (GDR), was completely different from all the Western countries. So, for us, when we went to the Netherlands or to France, it was like, “Okay, this is different.” But the style of life, the living, the system of works, was similar, but in the GDR; it was completely different.

For instance, you couldn’t just go in the shop and buy something because, very often, there was nothing to buy; and people were standing in line outside the shops. And then, sometimes, they even didn’t know what’s inside, what they are selling, but they just bought it to trade it in later with their friends. So, they trade it. They made barter trading. So, they bought something, which they could exchange with somebody to get something so very basic. It’s not for us, of course; it’s not a foreign country, but it was very exciting to go there and was very different at that time. So, yes, basically, that’s how it went. I guess you contacted me because of my membership in Mensa, and so on. And, of course, the good thing about these High IQ societies is that you get to know people from all over the world.

During the first phase of the Covid pandemic, we were having talks not on Zoom, but on a similar thing we’d see. It was running for 24 hours. So, when we were in our evening time, the first people from Canada showed up. So, that was also very fascinating.

Jacobsen: Really like zoological specimen.

Neumann: Yes, I’m very interested. I think that’s typical for high IQ people. You’re interested to see new things and to meet new people, and so on. You easily get bored at some point. So, the daily routine, it’s difficult to keep for us.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Member, CIVIQ High IQ Society.

[2] Individual Publication Date: May 8, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/neumann-1; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Gulalai Ismail on Zia-ul-Haq, Misogyny, Religion, Faith, Science, and Pakistani Politics: Co-Founder, Aware Girls (2)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/05/08

Abstract

Gulalai Ismail is a Co-Founder of Aware Girls. She has been awarded the Democracy Award from the National Endowment for Democracy, the Anna Politkovskaya Award, and recognized as one of the 100 Leading Global Thinkers of 2013 by Foreign Policy. She discusses: faith, misogyny, and uplifting women; science, religion, and the status quo in Pakistan; Aware Girls and Saba Ismail; and extremist organizing.

Keywords: Aware Girls, extremists, faith, Gulalai Ismail, Humanism, Islam, misogyny, Pakistan, religion, Saba Ismail, science, Zia-ul-Haq.

Conversation with Gulalai Ismail on Zia-ul-Haq, Misogyny, Religion, Faith, Science, and Pakistani Politics: Co-Founder, Aware Girls (2)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

*Interview conducted April 24, 2020.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: In some cultures where there is some of the more extreme forms of violence against women and girls, where we see genital mutilation, infibulation, and clitoridectomy, it is mixed up between culture and faith.

How are forms of explicit misogyny in practice – let alone an attitude – reflected in religious values and in cultural values? On the other side, which religious and cultural values appear to uplift women in Pakistan?

Gulalai Ismail[1],[2]: Very interesting question, religion, Islam, has been part of our cultures and every community for hundreds of years. It has mixed with the local culture. So, faith and culture are very strongly linked with each other. I think faith is part of the culture. It is one sub-part of the culture.

They are strongly linked to each other. The religion has changed a lot. It has influenced in so many ways. Faith has influenced and shaped the culture, the festivals, the community activities. In Pakistan, especially in the Northwest of Pakistan, I have seen – and my parents have seen – how regularly the religious fundamentalists took up more political space.

They gained more political space and gained more cultural space. So, the cultural events, the cultural festivals, were declared by the religious clerics as non-Islamic and bad. They were banned or abandoned by the people under the influenced of the religious extremists.

So many cultural events and cultural activities, which used to happen a decade ago, or two or three decades ago, they used to happen; they are not happening now. All the faith-based festivals or mostly faith-based festivals are happening now.

Even some of the cultural events have still survived, however, they are always under attack. People from the agricultural communities, especially from the Punjab, would come together and fly kites.

They would sing. They would dance. They would fly kites. Now, the festival is under attack by state actors and by the religious fundamentalists calling this un-Islamic and part of Hindu culture. Therefore, they should not celebrate it.

Pakistan is such a diverse country because many nations live in Pakistan. Every nation has their own culture. So, sometimes, the festivals are very beautiful. The languages are very beautiful. Not much has been done by the state authorities to preserve the culture and the music.

There is only one federal institute alongside the Pakistan National Council of the Arts at the federal level. These are the two state institutes, federal level institutions, working to preserve languages, music, and culture. They are just two institutes.

There is not much at the state or the culture level to preserve the beautiful parts of the culture because, in Pakistan, the resources is linked to the polices. Pakistan is a country where the resources are invested heavily in defense and security.

On the whole, it is promoting the narrative that Pakistan is a security state. The money is spent on the manta that we are under attack by India and Israel, and the Jews, are conspiring against us; India is conspiring against us. We are under attack on all sides.

Therefore, we need a stronger security and more investment in defense. So, much of the money is spent on tanks, bombs, on the nuclear bomb, education in our curriculum, children are not taught about the music, the heritage, the diversity. They are mostly taught about religion. You will find religion in English course books.

You will find religion in Pakistan study books [Laughing]. You will find religion in Islam study books. You will find religion in Urdu study books. Religion is studied so much in Pakistan. Religion and religious intolerances are taught as the thinking for the kids in education.

Religion has been a huge space in the cultural and political life. Look at the corona pandemic, in the midst of the corona pandemic, every country of the world is asking its people and issuing guidelines to stay at home. The countries are on lockdown.

The whole world is under lockdown. The governments are asking people only to come out for necessities. Only on necessities is business ongoing. During the month of Ramadan, the month of Ramadan has started.

When it starts, even countries like Saudi Arabia, which I think is [Laughing] the epitome of a religious country, when Saudi Arabia mentions the closing of the mosques during the month of Ramadan, people have to stay at home.

The Kaaba is one of the holiest places for Muslims. It has been closed down due to the coronavirus. In Pakistan, the president invited the delegation of religious clerics before the month of Ramadan started. They had twenty demands from the government.

The twenty demands were the mosques must remain open for prayers and prayers much continue. All demands were accepted by the government. It was announced the mosques would remain open for Ramadan prayers during the month of Ramadan. That is a very dangerous president.

Pakistan does not have accessible healthcare. We have a very bleak healthcare system. If the pandemic hit us the way it has hit countries like the U.S. or Europe, then Pakistan will be seeing dead bodies on the roads. Because our healthcare system cannot afford it.

We do not have a strong healthcare system, even the strongest healthcare systems are breaking down in the pandemic. We do not have a system. The government of Pakistan, they agreed to the demands of the religious clerics at the cost of lives of the people.

During the corona pandemic, when all over the world, the media channels are inviting either the mayors, governors, who are giving briefings to people, and the doctors and medical experts. They are coming and giving information on it.

In Pakistan, every media is bringing religious leaders to talk about corona pandemic. Too much media, public space has been given to religious elements at the cost of the lives of people, at the cost of the destruction of the society of Pakistan.

Jacobsen: The former Nobel Prize winner Abdus Salam noted one thing to Steven Weinberg who he collaborated with in the past. He noted that an individual who is in many Middle Eastern countries with Muslim heritage. They will very easily and widely accept the technological and technical masteries that are brought about by science. All of the technological marvels and wonders that one can see implemented in Dubai or in the United Arab Emirates in general, or elsewhere. At the same time, the attitude and thought process of science that brings about the findings through that methodology. Those, he noted, were very, very hard to bring to a wide audience because the religious leaders and some of the political leaders saw this, in essence, as a threat. This is according to Steven Weinberg. In that, this would be an erosive or corrosive force on fundamentalist ideologies. How is this reflected in some of the Pakistan? Not only in the press briefing with religious clerics, but also in the attitudes of the public towards technology, on the one hand, and science as an attitude, a methodology, and a set of findings, on the other.

Ismail: In Pakistan, religion has been used in so many different ways for the benefit of maintaining status quo. It goes back to the history of Pakistan. For example, in Pakistan, if you raise the question, “What does it mean to be a Pakistani?” Who are you when you say you are Pakistani? In Pakistan, the Pakistani identity has been made synonymous with being Muslim and to Islam. It has roots in the subcontinent of India. Pakistan was made for Muslims. It was a country to be made for Muslims or in the name of Islam. Religion was made for the subdivision of the Indian subcontinent in the first place. Also, it was made to define what is meant by a Pakistani. That is why you can see how religion slowly, and gradually, took a huge part in the constitution of Pakistan. Pakistan was formed in 1947, but many years later in 1956 when the first constitution was formed; Pakistan was given the name the “Islamic Republic of Pakistan.” The Preamble of the Pakistan Constitution is known as the Objective Resolution. It says, ‘This country made in the name of Islam. The country will be ruled according to Islam.’ According to the Objective Resolution, people are not sovereign units of the country. God is the most sovereign. God is the most sovereign entity. The Objective Resolution was about how it Islamic the whole country. Slowly and gradually, religion was used by religious political parties. The same religious political parties who initially opposed the formation of Pakistan. After the formation of Pakistan, those religious political parties started using religion to gain more access to politics to have more say in the decision-making.

So, religion was mainstreamed by those religious political parties. The political parties and the military dictators were the biggest users of the religion. Zia-ul-Haq was a military dictator. His justification for overthrowing democracy and establishing a military dictatorship was Islam. He started the Islamization of Pakistan. He Islamized the laws of the country. To this day, we have not been able to recover from the Islamization of Zia-ul-Haq. He was the one who introduced many Islamic laws, which we are still part of the laws of Pakistan. They are still used. Sharia courts were established. The religious leaders have been given a role in the judiciary in the form of Sharia courts. Similarly, there is a religious council, an advisory religious council, which gives advice to the Parliament (of Pakistan). The only time the Parliament consults the religious council is when the Parliament has to legislate about women’s rights. The only time the Parliament thinks that they need to counsel these advisors is for women’s rights. Women are at the receiving end of the mainstreaming of religion in Pakistan. As I said, it has been used by Pakistan military. Then religion has been used for the strategic interests. The military establishment of Pakistan along with the political parties have used religion as a strategic asset. For example, when Pakistan had been supporting Taliban in Afghanistan. Religion was used to recruit people for Jihad.

There are hundreds of madrassahs, hundreds of jihad training institutions, founded all over Pakistan, so people could be brainwashed and trained for jihad in Afghanistan. The school curriculums were changed all over Pakistan. More religion was inserted in the curriculum. The narratives of jihad could be promoted. They are still part of the curriculum. Those jihad materials are still part of the curriculum. So, religion has been used by the military establishment and the political parties. They have been using religion to enjoy more control at the cost of destroying the social fabric of the society. As I said to you, religion is a big part of the curriculum; so, critical thinking skills are not part of the curriculum. People are never given – children, young people – the skills to criticize, to question. Criticism or raising questions, the whole school culture in built in a way that students are discouraged from raising questions. Students are not encouraged to raise questions; they are discouraged from raising questions and from critical thinking skills. So, religion has been used to maintain status quo in Pakistan. Throughout the previous decades, the military establishment, and mainstream political parties, have mainstreamed religious political parties. Most of the terrorist organizations in Pakistan. They try to emerge in the form of political parties. They run their election campaigns. They secure a huge amount; they will not be able to make it to the Parliament, but they secure a huge number of votes.

Jacobsen: When you founded Aware Girls, was it 16?

Ismail: Yes, I was 16.

Jacobsen: A co-founder with Saba (Ismail), what were some discussions that you can recall between Saba and you?

Ismail: While living in a girl while we were witnessing, even becoming victims, to the gender discrimination, we really wanted to do something to change it. One of my cousins was almost our age when she wanted to become a pilot. She was taken out of school and married to a person in the family who was almost twice her age. It was a time when we were very shocked and traumatized how one of our own cousins could be taken out of school and not be given the opportunity to go to school and pursue her dreams. This was the breaking point for us. We could not do anything. We discussed this a lot with our families. No one would listen to these two small girls who were discontented with the cousin’s marriage. We could not do anything to stop the marriage. We wanted to do something. So, it would not happen to any other woman. We talked to women and girls in our neighbourhood, in our schools. Most of the time, when we would discuss this with girls, we would not find a lot of interest among the girls. [Laughing] Starting a revolution against the gender discrimination, most of the girls had internalized it. I think the discrimination is internalized as a defense mechanism. We were these young girls. We thought, “These young girls are not allowed to make a movement, to resist against Patriarchy. Because they are not aware of their rights.” We decided to start by giving them education and awareness of their human rights. We started this campaign with the name of “Aware Girls.” It was a campaign to give girls awareness and education on their rights.

Once in our head, the idea, ‘Once they are aware of their rights and have some leadership skills, they will be able to speak up for their rights. We would go and the girls would have discussions about the issues faced in their daily lives. The kind of discrimination aced by them. What can be done, how they can negotiate for themselves inside of the home in their families for their rights, how to negotiate their rights, that is how it started. Once we started, of course, the more we learned. It is not just about lack of knowledge with the young girls. It is about lack of opportunities, lack of platforms, and about a conducive environment. Girls need a conducive environment to exercise their human rights. It needs supportive families. It needs supportive communities. It needs a state there for young girls to protect their rights. We got involved in advocacy work. We were working on changing the laws. We were working on leadership skills for girls in leadership. In 2009, we started working on peacebuilding after the region was threatened with terrorism and recruitments by the Taliban or by the militant organizations.

Jacobsen: How do terrorist organizations, extremist organizations, encourage men into their ranks, women into their ranks? And how do those men and women who end up in them become slotted to particular roles?

Ismail: The recruitment was started by the state. When they wanted to recruit people for jihad. The number of madrassahs were increased, and the number of terrorist institutes were founded. The media was used by the state. The media was sued to promote the narrative, the extremist narratives. The curriculum was used. In Pakistan, most of the people have been indoctrinated with a fundamentalist form of Islam. It is really easy for militant organizations and for terrorist organizations to identify the most vulnerable in the community and to reach out and recruit them. The madrassah training centers have been used to recruit people. Most of the time, these are the centers for recruitment. Mosques have been used. These militant organizations’ leadership, even until now, visit mosques and introduce themselves. They ask people to come and down join them. They have been given a lot of power to do huge political gatherings. Even last year, there was a huge political gathering of banned terrorist organizations, where they asked people. They took bait. They took promises of people offering for them to join jihad. They do huge public gatherings. They recruit people through mosques and religious madrassahs. Also, they recruit people who are vulnerable, who have different issues, who like the idea of war, who like the idea of weapons, or who like the ideas of jihad.

Also, they recruit through community. There are a number of women madrassahs. Most of the women have been recruited through those religious madrassahs. For example, there was a very famous case, where a madrassah teacher was going to join ISIS along with more than a dozen students of the madrassah. She was arrested and brought. It is not just mosques and religious schools. It is, as I said, generally through community and online recruitment is done and social media is used. Our public schools are good enough to indoctrinate people. There was a very famous case a few years back when a student from medical college. She was a student of medical college. She was recruited online for ISIS. Then she was brought back. This was how we got to know of the incident. Women are recruited are online from public universities, and from religious schools. The militant organizations have a huge network. Their network is limited to universities, schools. They have networks in the bureaucracy as well. They are in the military of Pakistan as well. Even within the military of Pakistan, you could see. People have been indoctrinated with the idea of jihad. It is real. Therefore, they should go for jihad. Almost every part of the society has their network, their people.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Co-Founder, Aware Girls.

[2] Individual Publication Date: May 8, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/gulalai-ismail-2; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Mr. Sudarshan Murthy on: Member, World Genius Directory (2)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/05/08

Abstract

Mr. Sudarshan Murthy is a Member of the World Genius Directory. He self-describes as follows: “My name is Sudarshan Murthy. I am 41 years old male from Bangalore, India. I have studied Master of Pharmacy and working in the research and development of Nutrition Products for general wellness and disease-specific products. I am a creative individual and published research papers in journals and also published books on appropriate strategies for curing acidity and ulcers of the stomach and intestine. I have developed a product called Glucovita Bolts which is a chewable tablet of Glucose and Vitamins and Minerals for energy and reduction of fatigue. This product can be taken by individuals who suffer from chronic fatigue. My hobbies are numismatics, philately and travelling. My interests are astronomy, reading books, solving IQ tests, understanding the secrets of ancient knowledge particularly Indian Vedas which I believe is a storehouse of profound knowledge on various aspects of life and the cosmos.” He discusses:grandfather; proposed medicines; importance of education; missing out on meeting with close relatives; education; innate ingenuity; Mysterium; theories or ideas; Newton; Leonardo Da Vinci; Sushrutha; Bhaskaracharya; “deep observation”; the mind of a genius; the more promising paths; order; the disagreements among “different religions”; scientific principles; eternal mysteries; rule utilitarianism; situational ethics; politics; tripartite metaphysical formulation; and societies.

Keywords: Bhaskaracharya, family, genius, Isaac Newton, Leonardo Da Vinci, metaphysics, order, Rule Utilitarianism, Situational Ethics, Sudarshan Murthy, Sushrutha.

Conversation with Mr. Sudarshan Murthy on Grandfather, Education in Family, Regrets, Newton, Da Vinci, Sushrutha, Bhaskaracharya, Science, and Ethics: Member, World Genius Directory (2)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: As your grandfather was illiterate and living in a village without formal education, your story seems like one of triumph in spite of the circumstances. Why did he study Ayurvedic by himself?

Mr. Sudarshan Murthy[1],[2]*: My Grandfather was an orphan. He was in a small village. He then came to the city in search of a job. When he came here he was taken into the shelter by an elderly gentleman who was an Ayurvedic physician. He took my grandfather as an office boy for his clinic. My grandfather was having sharp intellect. He developed an interest in medicines and gradually became a compounder and then finally started to understand the medicines and Ayurveda under his master’s guidance. As the master’s children were not interested in Ayurveda the master started teaching Ayurveda to my grandfather. My grandfather took a keen interest in this and then started his own clinic. Since he became well-versed in Ayurveda he started developing his own medicines.

Jacobsen: What were some of the proposed medicines by your grandfather?

Murthy: He developed Ayurvedic medicines for memory, hairfall, diarrhea and high fever. He was doing clinical trials on medicines for children’s health when he suddenly expired.

Jacobsen: Between the home life, the surgeon, the doctor, and the electrical engineer, what is the importance of education within the family?

Murthy: I personally believe that education is important to get formal accreditation to start our professional practice but everything depends on our ability to apply our knowledge in our chosen education to be successful in our life. Education, by itself, cannot guarantee success in life. It is the innate ability and ingenuity which is required to succeed in our life. There are many such examples. Baba Ramdev from India who started Patanjali Ayurved became a Rs.10000 Crore company in a span of 6 years which many multinational companies have failed to achieve. He is having no formal Ayurvedic education. He is now invited to IIT and IIM to coach students on how to achieve success in life.

Jacobsen: Do you regret missing out on meeting with close relatives in a different start when younger?

Murthy: Yes I feel bad that I was not able to meet and stay with close relatives during my younger days when intimate relationships do form and stay long-lasting. Now I am not having any close relationship which helps to build emotional strength. This makes me feel lonely and insecure.

Jacobsen: Why pursue the education in pharmacy, business administration, food and nutrition, writing, and the sciences regarding clinical trials?

Murthy: I am crazy as far as education is concerned. I am interested to learn a variety of knowledge, especially in medical field. But only technical knowledge is not sufficient to progress in life but it requires business sense also so I studied business administration.

Jacobsen: Why are internal qualities of “innate ingenuity” so often unseen or unobserved without a formal test, even by the person with the innate ingenuity? It seems counterintuitive at first blush.

Murthy:I think that the world is based on the principle of “what you see is what you believe” and every person is also framed like that. We don’t believe ourselves till we see what we have done. This is a problem with genius people. They don’t believe themselves till others make them see what they have done.

Jacobsen: Is Mysterium still extant?

Murthy: I saw the group on facebook. Mr. Monte Washburn is the admin. The name is “Mysterium Society”.

Jacobsen: Do you have any particular theories or ideas that you’re trying to advance?

Murthy: I don’t have any particular theories or ideas to advance. I believe any theory which is made for common good without exploitation.

Jacobsen: What makes Newton one of the great historical geniuses, in character and in productions?

Murthy: Newton is great because he first observed the theory of gravity operating in the earth by observing and thinking why did apple fall on the ground why did it not go up. As I mentioned before this quality of profound observation is what makes a person genius.

Of course his three laws of motion and various other inventions make him one of the greatest historical geniuses.

Jacobsen: What makes Leonardo Da Vinci one of the great historical geniuses, in character and in productions?

Murthy: The same argument which I put forth for Newton applies here also. Many people know about him and his various inventions but what I admire in him is that he could write with both hands and he could write the words /sentences in their mirror image as well simultaneously. This shows his profound imagination and his ability to visualize the mirror image without actually seeing in mirror. This is an extraordinary quality of usage of his mind.

Jacobsen: What makes Sushrutha one of the great historical geniuses, in character and in productions?

Murthy: Sushrutha is considered the first surgeon of India. He was so brilliant that he could actually fit the nose to a person who had lost his nose. In those olden times, he could perform surgery when knowledge of medical science was not so advanced. This makes him one of the historical geniuses of India. Some even say that he could perform cloning and also able to fit one animal’s body part into humans. Even today we don’t know how this can be done without eliciting organ rejection by the body.

Jacobsen: What makes Bhaskaracharya one of the great historical geniuses, in character and in productions?

Murthy: Bhaskaracharya was an ancient Indian mathematician and astronomer who is said to have discovered gravity much before Newton. He is also known for developing various mathematical equations on algebra, geometry and trigonometry. His achievements can be found on google search. This makes him one of the historical geniuses of his time.

Jacobsen: Can “deep observation” be trained, or is it more innate?

Murthy: I believe deep observation can be trained.

Jacobsen: What explains the level of creativity in the “application of ideas that originates from the mind of a genius”?

Murthy: Let me give you an example of the Wright brothers. Every human being saw the birds flying in the air on an almost daily basis. But it was the minds of the Wright brothers who thought why humans can’t fly. This gave them the idea of designing a machine like a bird having wings that can be used to fly off humans. The result we see today is the aeroplane.

This shows that geniuses can convert the ideas into reality, i.e., they not only get ideas but also know how to apply them as well.

Jacobsen: What are some of the more promising paths for the “various medical and nutrition products in the healthcare industry”?

Murthy: Hippocrates once said, “Let food be your medicine and medicine be your food”. This explains that the food that we eat should be healthy and suitable for our body and mind. Also, the medicine should be in the form of food and not be a separate entity which we take only when we fall sick. The ultimate meaning I believe is that food is healthy to our body and mind i.e.it should make our body and mind fit and should act as medicine to ensure we do not fall sick. The junk foods and synthetic medicines of today are not healthy. They do harm our body in some way or the other. Many medicines are not without side effects.

Jacobsen: Why can “such order” not “happen on its own”?

Murthy: This is a mystery to me. If we the events around us happening or happened in the past it becomes clear that order did not happen on its own. This is because nature is always in the process of change. The process of constant change does not allow the order to happen on its own. For example, seasons change so do the flowering pattern and birds migration. This changes the order. Some plants bloom in winter while some die. Some viruses become active in winter while some lie dormant or die.

Jacobsen: What do you make the disagreements among “different religions” on the aspects, form, and interactions with humanity, even representations to human beings, of “this supreme intelligence” called “God”?

Murthy: There is a story about 7 blind men describing the elephant in seven different ways. All of them are partly true but none correctly describing the elephant as it is. This is what applies to different religions representing the supreme intelligence in their own ways without any knowing correct representation of God. The religions still today is similar to the blind men describing an elephant, partly correct but not wholly true.

Jacobsen: What scientific principles most intrigue you?

Murthy: One scientific principle that intrigues me and also teaches me that all are created equal is the free fall principle. When two or more objects of different masses are allowed to fall freely at the same time from a similar height they fall at the same time irrespective of their masses but our thinking says that objects with greater mass should fall first. This is the most intriguing phenomenon in science.

 Jacobsen: What things about nature seem like eternal mysteries rather than problems with the potential for solution?

Murthy: There are two such things which appear as eternal mysteries of nature: – Why does the natural death occur, i.e., why do animals age and die? The second mystery is: why children born to the same parents have different life events?

Jacobsen: Why rule utilitarianism for an ethical philosophy more than others?

Murthy: Ethical philosophy is concerned with morally right or wrong and utilitarianism is based on morality which advocates actions that bring happiness and pleasure and opposes any action that causes harm. Hence any action which is done to bring happiness and pleasure automatically becomes morally right and otherwise actions that bring unhappiness and pain to all is morally wrong.

Jacobsen: What make situational ethics best for a social philosophy? Does this tie into rule utilitarianism?

Murthy: As I said before social philosophy concerns itself with social behaviour and interprets the society in terms of ethical behaviour i.e. right or wrong and situational ethics is concerned about the particular context of an act when evaluating ethically. Both these are concerned with ethics i.e. what is morally right or wrong. Thus situational ethics is best for social philosophy as helps in evaluating morally right and wrong actions. Rule utilitarianism is concerned with actions that bring the greatest good. I believe that any actions/behavior in society that brings the greatest good for all is morally right. Thus situational ethics is best for social philosophy and both these can be linked to the philosophy of rule utilitarianism.

Jacobsen: Why should politics be above religion or beliefs of people? It seems as if a formal argument for secularism.

Murthy: The politics should be for the benefit and greatest for all. The religion or beliefs of people may not always be for the greatest good of all people but maybe only for their specific religion or belief. Secularism is something seen away from religion and not based on the greatest good for all. It is a viewpoint and not necessarily for the greatest good of all people. Politics should be for the greatest good for all and includes secularism but not necessarily secularism.

Jacobsen: What is the “spiritual” in this tripartite metaphysical formulation of the physical, the mental including emotion and perception, and the spiritual?

Murthy: Spiritual means relating to our soul and not to material or physical things. Being Spiritual means we become consciously aware that we are all one and are a part of the whole divinity which exists and surrounds us. This is something more than the sensory experience.

Jacobsen: What societies seem to fit these social, economic, political, and philosophical views in one more than others, i.e., practical manifestations of them?

Murthy: As of now I am unable to see any societies that fit all these dimensions. But if all of them come together as one society then maybe it will be.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Member, World Genius Directory.

[2] Individual Publication Date: May 8, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/murthy-2; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Saba Ismail on Mubarak Bala, Gulalai Ismail, Aware Girls, Talent, and Ethical Exemplars: Co-Founder, Aware Girls (4)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/05/01

Abstract

Saba Ismail is a Co-Founder of Aware Girls. At the age of 15, she co-founded Aware Girls for the empowerment of young women in leadership capacities and to advance social change. She completed a Masters in Biotechnology from COMSATS University Abbot Asad and the Hurford Youth Fellowship with the National Endowment for Democracy. She has worked as Youth Ambassador for Asia Pacific Youth Network (APYN: 2012-2013), the Steering Committee of UNOY, and is an alumnus of the International Visitors Leadership Program in the United States. Ismail was recognized by Foreign Policy as one of the 100 Leader Global Thinkers in 2013. She is the recipient of the Chirac Prize for Conflict Prevention. She discusses: Mubarak Bala in Nigeria; Gulalai; most talented person; and ethical exemplars.

Keywords: Aware Girls, Humanism, Mubarak Bala, Saba Ismail.

Conversation with Saba Ismail on Mubarak Bala, Gulalai Ismail, Aware Girls, Talent, and Ethical Exemplars: Co-Founder, Aware Girls (4)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

*Interview conducted July 2, 2020.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: There’s the ongoing case of Mubarak Bala in Nigeria. This is a very common people who are cofounders of organizations, presidents of organizations. How is this being received in the United States, which is known as a hub of Humanism?

It is one of the areas where secular Humanism took off in the 21st-century.

Saba Ismail[1],[2]: We have gotten support in a good way from our friends and supporters. People that we know. We have really good supporters from senator Schumer’s office, and others. We have got really good support.

Also, there were senators who actually said things on their Twitter publicly supporting the case. Senator Schumer wrote letters when our father was abducted from the high court. He was made a missing person, abducted, and disappeared.

It was the pressure from the U.S., including U.S. senators and State Department. Any support kept our parents safe to some extent. We were told by many people and friends around that it’s because we have the support, international support, in the form of the stories coming up on the New York Times, senators’ offices, and others – high level support, is the reason our parents are alive.

Gulalai and our parents would not be alive anymore. Having a voice when people know you as a credible person, also, I want to mention this. Gulalai didn’t become famous in the last two years. She has been well-known before.

He got a prize in the U.S. Congress in 2013. She got the Shirac Prize in 2013. There was all this international recognition. That is good on the one side. Yet, not everyone will get this recognition and encouragement at such a huge international level. What do you do with other humanists, where people may not know them?

They are not internationally known. It becomes hard to make sure that they are safe, to make sure that they are going through due legal procedures. We are lucky in this. We had a very credible history of 18 years of work.

People saw us when we started as teenagers. People saw us growing up and evolving in Pakistan and outside of Pakistan. I think, definitely, when someone has become part of this theme for decades, almost two decades.

They know what kind of person you are and what values and principles you stand for. That’s why people are still with us. There were several institutions, several organizations that should with us. Not because we knew them shortly or something, but because we had a really long relationship with each one of those individuals or institutions.

There are so many activists in Pakistan. Recently, I found this one doctor. She had to record a video statement for what she supported, what she said. Humanists issued a statement, recently; even though, she is well-known in Pakistan.

People stood up for her. But because she is not so well-known, she is not so safe. People have different kinds of priorities. What I am saying, if humanists don’t have the really strong support working, it is hard for them to be safe.

Our family’s case, I was based outside of the States. I was not being monitored by these security agencies. I was not be surveilled all the time. Because we would go together all the time. Gulalai was going through hiding all the time.

I was going through a different experience. My parents were going through a different experience. What helped us, I had the privilege to contact and do all this communication, whether with civil society, international community, UN, diplomatic channels.

It was only because I had a really known history of work and experience and people knew me. If a lot of people didn’t even know me. I also knew how to communicate my message. Who are the people who I should contact in this situation? How should I build my strategy?

I couldn’t contact my parents. I didn’t talk to my mother for months when Gulalai was in hiding. Her phone was taken away by security agencies. It was not safe for her to turn her phone on. When you are really disconnected, I didn’t know if she was safe or if arrested, or in custody.

I couldn’t talk to my mother. I couldn’t speak to my father. “This happened. This many people came.” That’s all I could get from him. It is important for humanists and activists to build strategies. I know situations are different and know the different persecution activists face.

From my place, having a strategy, having a person as in our case, it really helped. Gulalai didn’t know anything about these stories coming out of the New York Times. There were statements by humanists and several other institutions and Frontline, Lines for Peacebuilding, Global Observatory, FIDH, etc.

They were several statements. One day, on the day when our Imran Khan was doing his speech, we mobilized people who can go to the embassy. Every day, it would be petitions and all these supporters. Some were public petitions.

Some were open letters. All of that diplomatic work that happened, as I said. It is really important, as least from our experience, what really helped us. I was outside. I was not going through what my parents were going through.

Of course, I was in extreme stress, but I was not going through what they went through. I was in a position. I was in a privileged position. I had more privileges compared to my parents. I was able to mobilize everything.

We did a lot of background work before Gulalai became public and filing her asylum case. We did several visits to Washington, D.C. Several before she became public. It was a lot of work. Everything she went through, where do we want to go? Who should we contact? It was making her safe.

We met with F.B.I. We met with N.Y.P.D. We met at the highest level possible that we could do with the State Department. We made sure that she was safe and that the law enforcement was on her side, so they know and everything. It was a lot of work.

Definitely, if it is not someone immediately in your family, as not every family has one person is an activist and then they have siblings and parents, people and friends should advocate for them. This is a reality for people.

If someone doesn’t want to take responsibility in the family advocating for advocates, people can do it. A lot of these organizations would not have happened if I had not contacted all of these people. Because of where they would get the information, it is that it is not their intention and where they can get credible information.

I was the representative for Gulalai in all letters written for her. It is a lot of work. It is really for humanists and activists working in such environments. It is important that they are aware of the risks and should be trustworthy people who will stand up and do all those.

As a humanist and an activist, we have to go through personal trauma as well. We have to go through the trauma. We couldn’t allow ourselves to be affected by the traumatic experiences. We wouldn’t be able to fight if we were affected by this whole situation.

It is a mental toll. It is really stressful. There are a lot of things that humanists can learn from other humanists if they share. I am not sure if I am directly responding to the question. Also, digital security is important, especially for humanists, to ensure secure and safe communication channels.

I can even share through this email. ProtonMail is one of the safest. Signal for texting. In the process, I learned so much when I had to communicate. Even when I had to go outside, I was always at risk. There were attempts to bug my phone and my devices. It happened in that time.

Humanists’ lives and communication are at risk. Even in normal life, even when they aren’t being persecuted, digital communication so important. Because of the work that we did at Aware Girls, we used to teach girls about safe online spaces, about digital security. All of that.

We were the ones working on it and how important it is. If we hadn’t taken all those measures, Gulalai wouldn’t have been safe. In this time, when the whole world has become a digital world, if someone doesn’t say something on digital media or through a phone, it is a different world now.

In a digital world, you have to be safe digitally. You don’t know if people communicate in unsafe ways.

Jacobsen: Now, I want to touch on a particular individual influenced by Gulalai and you at Aware Girls. She recently graduated from a prominent British university. Who is this young woman?

Ismail: [Laughing].

Jacobsen: How did her story, in fact, start on the ground before fame through Aware Girls?

Ismail: Actually, I think she already had the potential. The way her father brought her up. She already had the potential. When we were in touch with her, she became part of a program for domestic violence awareness.

You mentioned Malala. She took part in a program from Aware Girls. I think it was a year before being shot in the head. I don’t want to take that kind of credit, saying, “Because of Aware Girls, she is Malala.” She already had the potential, won awards.

She is an alumni of Aware Girls. Definitely, a very talented Pakistani girl who we are extremely proud of.

Jacobsen: Who is the most talented person you’ve ever met in general?

Ismail: This is a hard question because there are so many. The world doesn’t have a measurement for talent. There are these IQ tests. Aside from that, we can’t say, “This person has a lot of talent.” Because we can learn things from people who aren’t the extremely genius talented people.

Life is about learning new things. You can learn things from people around us. I can’t say this is the person who is the most talented because I have met many people who are talented in many different walks of life or in the work that they do or in their personal lives.

There are many people. There are people who I have been inspired from, who I look as a strong person, as people who I can learn. I wouldn’t name one person or someone as the most talented who I have ever met.

Jacobsen: What about ethical exemplars who come to mind?

Ismail: For me, ethics are at the institutional level. I see ethics more at an institutional level. I don’t know. It raises the question, “What kind of ethics are we talking about?” It is about basic respect. I understand the question you’re saying.

I wouldn’t tie it to a person.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Co-Founder, Aware Girls.

[2] Individual Publication Date: May 1, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/saba-ismail-4; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Saba Ismail on Criminal Justice, Dominant Faith Group Tied to Military State, Minority Muslims, and Humanists: Co-Founder, Aware Girls (3)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/04/22

Abstract

Saba Ismail is a Co-Founder of Aware Girls. At the age of 15, she co-founded Aware Girls for the empowerment of young women in leadership capacities and to advance social change. She completed a Masters in Biotechnology from COMSATS University Abbot Asad and the Hurford Youth Fellowship with the National Endowment for Democracy. She has worked as Youth Ambassador for Asia Pacific Youth Network (APYN: 2012-2013), the Steering Committee of UNOY, and is an alumnus of the International Visitors Leadership Program in the United States. Ismail was recognized by Foreign Policy as one of the 100 Leader Global Thinkers in 2013. She is the recipient of the Chirac Prize for Conflict Prevention. She discusses: the formal charges; more recent case or cases; the justice system within Pakistan; different minority Muslim backgrounds; extensive periods of having to be in hiding; and the New York Times.

Keywords: Aware Girls, criminal justice, Gulalai Ismail, Islam, law, minority religious groups, Pakistan.

Conversation with Saba Ismail on Criminal Justice, Dominant Faith Group Tied to Military State, Minority Muslims, and Humanists: Co-Founder, Aware Girls (3)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

*Interview conducted July 2, 2020.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: What were the formal charges at the time towards your parents, your siblings, and yourself?

Saba Ismail[1],[2]: At that time, there were no formal charges. At the time, the raid, they were restless ordinary people without uniform. We never knew their identity. There were no charges and no cases. None against Gulalai.

At the time, Gulalai and I were receiving international awards. We were on the 100 leading global thinkers of 2013. Both us won several awards. We were getting the recognition and acknowledgement.

At one occasion, actually, when we both received the 100 leading global leaders award back in 2013, my father had a reception party at our village. The next day, some people came to my father.

It was a reception, but it was family, friends, and relatives. They said that if they knew the party and reception was here. We would be attacked. So, it is not a party as in Western culture. It was people getting together and eating food. It was people coming and chatting and having good food. That’s it.

Even that, my father received a threat that it would be attacked. Always, it received threats and different forms of persecution in one form or another. There was never a formal charge. There was never an FIR (First Information Report) or a police report, or anything.

Jacobsen: In the more recent case or cases, what were the formal charges at that time?

Ismail: Before Gulalai’s speech, she was charged. In total, she has been charged with inciting hatred and violence, inciting people to attack the army, of terrorism, and financial terrorism. These are the kind of charges that my family has been facing.

Gulalai was on the Exit Control List, No Fly List (can’t leave the country). My mother has been denied the right to have a passport. It was denied to her at the end of 2019. When her passport expired, she cannot get a passport because under the instructions of ISI; she will not get a passport.

She doesn’t have her identity documents on her. There is a cybercrime case against my father. There are multiple cases against my parents. On the 2nd of July, Gulalai and my parents were acquitted in the financial terrorism case.

That case started back in 2018 when Gulalai was put on a person of special interest inquiry. There were enquiries from the counterterrorism department. On the 12th of July, in 2019, there was a police case against Gulalai.

They accused Gulalai of taking money from India and transferring it to our accounts from India. The judge decided there is no evidence at all. With no evidence, the case is dismissed. Gulalai and my parents were acquitted in this case.

Because there was no evidence at all. They couldn’t provide any.

Jacobsen: This is insane.

Ismail: How can you charge someone based just on accusations? Because they couldn’t submit any single evidence. The judge was like, “This has to be dismissed and is malicious.” There are still so many crimes against Gulalai and the cybercrime case against my father, Exit Control List of my parents, and Gulalai was on a state kill list. There were orders to kill her.

There were all these charges. The past year (2020) have been a difficult time for our family fighting the legal ways.

Jacobsen: Now, if this is the status of the justice system within Pakistan, how is for other humanists?

Ismail: For other humanists, it is really hard. Same for human rights defenders and activists. It is not easy. It is really difficult. You can imagine. It took one year and multiple court appearances. My father was abducted, disappeared and spent 35 days in prison.

The police raids, everything, at the end, this case was used on social media and troll and spread hatred against my family. Of course, it cannot undo the harm done by Pakistan as a state against our family.

Our family is not united. We cannot go back to our country. Definitely, this is the situation. Even without a single piece of evidence, it still took one year and multiple appearances in course to bring our parents back and be acquitted in this case.

Other humanists are not safe. We have seen professors being accused of blasphemy. We have seen professors being killed in the name of blasphemy. Students have killed their professor.

Jacobsen: Holy smokes.

Ismail: Yes! Yes, recently, another person was accused of blasphemy. A humanist released a statement in favour of the professor. Generally, the space as a country is not safe for humanists. Anyone who dares to speak out will face crackdowns or being killed, false accusations of blasphemy, e.g., Asia Bibi who was falsely accused of blasphemy, spent 8 years in jail.

When she was released, the religious extremists were going crazy to get her killed. Also, a few year ago, a young brilliant student named Mashal Khan was killed by a university fellow at the university, again, because he was accused of blasphemy.

Blasphemy is not only a card used against religious minorities in Pakistan, but against anyone with a different opinion. They will say, “This person has committed blasphemy.” The justice system is not strong enough to protect them.

Or the crazy people, if the justice system fails to get them, there is mob violence to simply kill them if they are a humanist or a committed blasphemy. All the propaganda being spread against Gulalai on social media.

They say, “Okay, look at Gulalai as part of a humanist organization, she is a secular person. People should follow her and her ideologies because she is a secular humanist.” People reference the humanist groups and her being on the Board of Humanists International.

It has been used to spread hate against her. It is on social media. Several years ago, several bloggers were disappeared. They were accused of blasphemy. A lot of these cases stay this way. Because they believe if someone has a different political opinion; that’s where they use it.

Humanism is not a safe opinion at all. It can cost lives in Pakistan. This is a gruesome reality. This is the reality of Pakistan.

Jacobsen: The subtext or the elephant in the room is the idea of blasphemy as a generalized law in public, when, in fact, it’s only religious legal concept. So, the idea of applying a religious legal concept to those without a religion or those with another religion using religious legal law or different religious laws.

It shouldn’t be legitimate, but it comes at the most costly thing: someone’s life.

Ismail: But in Pakistan, it is not just religious persecution. Mashal Khan was a humanist and born a Muslim. He called himself a humanist. It applied to people who are not Muslims. Christian houses and communities have been burned because of these false blasphemy laws.

It is a very easy thing to provoke people in Pakistan. That’s what they’re using to promote. It is a very easy card to provoke people to kill someone or defame someone, or to make sure they don’t listen to someone’s ideas.

Jacobsen: Islamic backgrounds, minority Muslim backgrounds, is there a different reaction to different minority Muslim backgrounds, like the Ismailis? Are there different reactions to the minority Muslim backgrounds amongst the more dominant Muslim groups?

Ismail: Yes, definitely, people who are from the Ahmadi community. By law, they are not Muslims in Pakistan. The irony on top of all of it. I was born a Sunni Muslim. Now, if I want to have a national identity card, and when I am applying for a passport, I have to sign a document saying, ‘I, as a Muslim, do not consider Ahmadis as Muslims according to the Constitution of the country of Pakistan.”

If I don’t sign it, I don’t have an option to not sign it. If I don’t, though, then I will have to show my religion as another religion, such as a non-Muslim, in my identity documents. The amount of persecution that religious minorities within Muslim communities face is immense.

Imagine, people know that they are born in a certain religious identity cannot become the president or prime minister of a country. They know their dreams have limitations because of the religion they are born into.

Also, the persecution of the faith is immense. It is hard to say anything in support of these religious minorities. You say it. There are so many trolls and online armies ready to attack the family and to kill.

It is really hard. They have done it constitutionally, outcast the religious minority in Pakistan. There’s this Pakistani physicist, Abdus Salam. They have disowned him because of his religious identification. It is common to see a warning in a job warning, “Ahmadis are not allowed in this shop. Ahmadis are now allowed to do business in this shop.”

Where they sell clothes, telephone shops, there will be proper notices on the entrance of the doors of the shop. That these people from these religious minorities aren’t allowed. People growing up in a certain country see all this.

Because they’re a religious minority. Their certain rights are being withheld. They are not entitled to basic human rights in this country simply because of that. It is definitely not okay. Also, it has been taught in schools that Ahmadis are not Muslims.

It is repeated by the educated system. People propagate this online. It’s on a daily basis. You see it all around you. The way they are being targeted are several instances. People will travel on a bus. They will be asked to identify themselves and then shot and killed on the spot.

Whether non-religious or religious minorities, they have faced things so inhuman and unconstitutional.

Jacobsen: For some of the family, there have been extensive periods of having to be in hiding. So, without details for safety reasons, how does one even go about making that decision to say, “Okay, this is something that we have to do. We’re going to do it. We’re going to go forward with it”?

Then you drop everything in your lives to come to some form of safety without any certainty of safety in the end. 

Ismail: You’re in a different mode. You don’t have any other option. You don’t have many choices. You have to be resilient, extremely resilient and extremely strong because every step that we did at that time.

There was always chances of us not being safe and us being killed, losing our lives. That is when you know, constantly, about your safety or your parents’ safety. There is no other choice but to fight. You do your best in that time.

We have been through so many situations. My father has been going through so much in his life. He was accused of blasphemy before 9/11. When you live a life of such persecution, we had to do something like a SWOT analysis: strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats.

That kind of analysis. “If I take this route, what are the risks?” Definitely, in those kinds of situations, you can discuss it with your friends. You cannot simply take advice from other people, the community, everything.

We had to do a lot on our own. One person has to be resilient enough to stand in that kind of situation and to come up with solutions. This is what we did. We couldn’t stay in the house anymore because it was not safe for us. In order to save our lives, also, because we come from a middle-class family, we don’t have properties in different areas of the country.

We’d go to a farmhouse in some other part of the country. We didn’t have choices on our plate. We had extremely limited options in what we could do and did our best. Each of us is safe in our situation after going through so much.

We have to understand the risk, but have to be resilient in what we do. Also, it is all the security measures and the precautions when it came to the physical security situation.

Jacobsen: When the stories came out in the New York Times, several of them, about your sister’s case, in your father’s case, it came out in the most influential publication in the Western world. Two members of the same family with similar stories in different circumstances.

One with your father in Pakistan. Two with your sister in New York in the United States. How, in in a very short period of time, were these stories, when they came out, portrayed in the countries that didn’t want things for either your father or your sister?

Ismail: I’m not sure if I will be able to answer this. The people who were definitely not happy with why these stories came out in such a high profile way. I really commend the work of Jeffrey Gettleman. He put in a lot of work to the stories that came out at that time.

It was a lot of background work. When the first story came out, it took weeks and weeks of calls and emails between Jeffrey and I at that time. When the stories came out, it really helps a lot raise the awareness of the case.

The day the New York Times story was published when Imran Khan came to give a speech in the United States. Nancy, the Speaker of the House, asked Imran Khan a question about it. It really helped us. Of course, it was courageous of Nancy to ask the Prime Minister of a country about the persecution of a women’s rights activist at the time.

The New York Times helped bring the awareness to a higher level. Also, when the journalist from the New York Times visited our parents back home in Islamabad, she saw how much military people guarded with weapons and everything.

She saw those people outside watching of the house. They had weapons with them. There were cars with people. The journalist saw everything and documented in a pictorial way. They took pictures as evidences for everything.

When the story of the New York Times got published, those vehicles that would stand there all the time, day and night, were gone. That stopped on the day the article got published. Definitely, at the time, it was a big relief for us.

These people with weapons and guns were watching our parents all the time. It was a really good timing. When questions were being asked of the Prime Minister of the country, some of the persecution stopped because of this coverage.

I love the way Jeffrey articulated the story. I love the way he put his effort into this story towards ensuring that the story was told in a really good and neutral way. At that time, there was so much hatred and propaganda on the media against Gulalai.

No one was taking our side at that time. So, it was really important for us to tell or story to the New York Times. Here is our story, you shouldn’t listen to the Pakistani authorities and the media. In Pakistani, the anchors would say Gulalai should be hanged and shown as an example – how dare she speak against the Pakistani military.

My parents watched this all day. For three days on television, people were repeatedly saying, “She should be hanged in public.” What my parents went through because of that, they still cannot process it. It was a huge mental stress for parents to see all this.

All the stories being covered by the media in Pakistan. No one bothered to tell our story. It was told through social media, through Twitter. Those were the only means for us to actually say things, “This where we stand.”

Later on, I met people who read the story, but I didn’t meet those people. They knew the story of my sister. But they would mention, “Do you know this woman in Pakistan? I read this story.” I would say, “That is my sister.”

It gave us voice to tell our story and to be able to go to the higher levels. We got so much support from U.S. senators. Now, it has become an introduction of Gulalai. If Gulalai introduces herself, the two New York Times stories help.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Co-Founder, Aware Girls.

[2] Individual Publication Date: April 22, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/saba-ismail-3; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Free of Charge 8 – Possible Futures for Humanism

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/04/22

Abstract

Dr. Herb Silverman is the Founder of the Secular Coalition for America, the Founder of the Secular Humanists of the Lowcountry, and the Founder of the Atheist/Humanist Alliance student group at the College of Charleston. He authored Complex variables (1975), Candidate Without a Prayer: An Autobiography of a Jewish Atheist in the Bible Belt (2012) and An Atheist Stranger in a Strange Religious Land: Selected Writings from the Bible Belt (2017). He co-authored The Fundamentals of Extremism: The Christian Right in America (2003) with Kimberley Blaker and Edward S. Buckner, Complex Variables with Applications (2007) with Saminathan Ponnusamy, and Short Reflections on Secularism (2019), Short Reflections on American Secularism’s History and Philosophy (2020), and Short Reflections on Age and Youth (2020). He discusses: some of the paths Humanism could evolve into the future; Humanism’s unification; Humanism and the rejection of the supernatural versus strict atheism; democratic ideals and issues; and limits of an empirical moral philosophy.

Keywords: empirical moral philosophy, future, Golden Rule, Herb Silverman, Humanism.

Free of Charge 8 – Possible Futures for Humanism

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: I want to take an interlude session into unifying evolutionary ethical frameworks as exemplified in part, in Humanism. One widely touted claim by individuals with a leaning towards the secular and a sympathy for religious sentiments is a claim to unified moral principles or frames in every ‘great’ religion, as in Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Chinese traditional religions, and ethnic religions. One group of more superficial thinkers will point to a feeling or some loose intuition about religion, “All religions teach the same things.” I understand what they are meaning, but what they are saying, as a matter of fact, is false. Why have different religions if so? Another group will be selective about the observations. Ignoring the parts of brutality, cruelty, bigotry, and supernatural superstition, only focusing on the Golden Rule, saying, “Oh, it’s the Golden Rule. It’s in all of them. All of the religions teach this as the same basic element of their ethical teachings.” Generally, one can find passages. However, it seems both incredibly naïve and selective, because different formulations of the Golden Rule exist and different religions teach the Golden Rule unequally well. Still others turn into postmodernist philosophers, they ramble off into incoherency and don’t make any sense, while puffed up and self-proud as a cock (rooster) on a dunghill. Humanism is an advanced 20th-century philosophy. It’s about a deep dive into reflection on the depths of human depravity and reformulating, and formalizing, the positive, proactive ethics found in all periods of human history in which civilized advance society existed for those times, when naturalism and the humanities were the dominant discourse of the time. What are some of the paths Humanism could evolve into the future?

Dr. Herb Silverman[1],[2]: It may be true that just about all religions have some version of the Golden Rule about treating others as you would want to be treated. And a version of this can also be found in almost every ethical tradition, with no gods necessary. In my Jewish tradition, the first century BCE Rabbi Hillel was allegedly asked by a prospective Jewish convert to teach him the entire Torah (Hebrew Bible) while standing on one leg. Hillel replied, “That which is hateful to you do not do to your neighbour. The rest is commentary.”

Some equate the Golden Rule with the rule about loving your neighbour as yourself. The problem arises with who we consider our neighbour. In the Hebrew Bible, neighbours were the “chosen” people, other Israelis. Jews were supposed to kill outsiders on their way to the Promised Land. Today in America, many White Christian Nationalists view only their fellow Christians as neighbours and so justify discriminating against non-white immigrants.

Another problem with the Golden Rule is that some people may not want to be treated as we want to be treated. Our values may be so different that the Golden Rule makes no sense. For instance, some fanatics have no aversion to death, so the Golden Rule might inspire them to kill others in suicide missions. For humanists to live by the Golden Rule, we must empathize with other people, including those who may be very different from us and might want to be treated differently.

When you mentioned “dunghill,” I thought of Thomas Jefferson, who in many ways (but not all ways) was a humanist. As he correctly pointed out, there are some words of wisdom in the Bible, but I agree with Jefferson when he referred to them as “diamonds in a dunghill.”

When you ask for paths where Humanism could evolve in the future, I think Humanism is a philosophy that is continually evolving. That’s why we have had three Humanist Manifestos, and will undoubtedly have additional “manifestos” as we learn more about how better to live ethical lives, along with new scientific discoveries.

Jacobsen: Continuing from the previous question, there are areas in which Humanism is a laundry list of principles rather than a unified ethical framework. Such a framework in which it can continually, dynamically evolve while maintaining its former evidentiary coherence, in fact, many of the declarations are such listings. Do you think that there are ways Humanism can be more compact, more unified, showing how its principles interact with one another to create a whole other than a simple titular stamp: “Humanism”?

Silverman: A compact way to talk about Humanism is to describe, without a laundry list, its basic principles, which serve as guidelines for how we should live. Humanism is a progressive philosophy of life that, without supernaturalism, affirms our ability and responsibility to lead ethical lives of personal fulfillment that also aspire to the greater good of humanity. We are an integral part of nature, the result of unguided evolutionary change, and ethical values are derived from human need and interest as tested by experience, along with a greater knowledge of the world. Humanists are guided by reason and inspired by compassion.

Jacobsen: Are there any parts of Humanism that you think should just go, not be there? I believe you had some qualms in earlier variations of declaration with the inclusion of supernatural versus atheist or non-theist as an appeasement to some who couldn’t quite stomach a complete rejection of the impossibility of the gods. 

Silverman: I know some good people who can’t stomach a complete rejection of the existence of gods. They may act in a lot of ways like humanists, leading ethical lives and aspiring to the greater good of humanity. I just don’t like the god baggage that might go along with it. I can’t prove there are no gods. An atheist is simply someone without a belief in any gods, and I think we should not claim to be guided by imaginary beings. That’s why my brand of Humanism is atheistic. I can’t prevent the Pope from calling himself a humanist because he supports immigration, opposes wars, and accepts that humans are partially responsible for climate change.

Jacobsen: Human rights and democratic ideals feature prominently in the humanist lifestance. Are there any particular weaknesses in the claims of human rights, as said in the formal documents of human rights, or in the principle of majority rule (adult age majoritarian voting rule)?

Silverman: The notion of human rights is a modern concept from the 18th century Enlightenment, not from ancient times when the Golden Rule was first quoted. Thomas Jefferson incorporated such “inalienable rights” into the U.S. Declaration of Independence. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights in 1948 was a milestone for its universalist language, which recognizes that all humans are born free and equal in dignity and rights regardless of nationality, place of residence, gender, national or ethnic origin, colour, or religion.

I do have some problems with majority rule, especially if we have an uneducated populace, and leaders (dictators) decide who constitutes voters. After all, Adolf Hitler came to power in a democracy in 1933. Not that it is any way comparable, but democracy may not be working so well in the U.S. now, with many Republicans trying to make it difficult for some African Americans to vote. So, I must agree with Winston Churchill: “Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.”

Jacobsen: Are issues of an empirical moral philosophy found in the epistemologies informing the ethics? So, the ideas of the limitations of induction to give answers about the world – its scope and limits – and then the limitations by logical implication extended into the moral philosophy of Humanism, as in some things can never be known, others partially known now, while others known with a reliably high degree of accuracy. A sort of variation in accuracy of reality maps meaning variations in the reliability, and validity, of the application of humanistic ethics. Sometimes, there’s tons of informations; other times, there’s little; still others, we have, basically, none, and may never have any data to inform the ethic, which would make ethical decisions solely grounded in the lattermost equivalent to a base-level faith-based moral decision-making frame of reference (that which we try to avoid at all costs). 

Silverman: When it comes to what we know and don’t know with a reliable level of accuracy, I usually look to science. I recently read a wonderful new book by Jeff Hawkins called, A Thousand Brains: A New Theory of Intelligence. It compares our old reptilian brain to our new mammalian brain (the neocortex), with implications for moral behaviour.

I’ve been in debates with Christians who insist that objective morality must come from God. My contention is that we don’t know if there is such a thing as objective morality but, if so, we are coming closer to it by learning more about human nature and what works best for individuals. We often learn this through science or experience, not through ancient “holy” books. We need to be careful when we talk about what we know, and, even more important, about what we don’t know. To quote Mark Twain: “What gets us into trouble is not what we don’t know. It’s what we know for sure that just ain’t so.”

Jacobsen: Thank you for the opportunity and your time, Dr. Silverman. 

Silverman: Thank you.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Founder, Secular Coalition for America;Founder, Secular Humanists of the Low Country; Founder, Atheist/Humanist Alliance, College of Charleston.

[2] Individual Publication Date: April 22, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/free-of-charge-8; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Saba Ismail on Pakistan, Women’s Rights Organizing, and Raids Against the Ismail Family: Co-Founder, Aware Girls (2)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/04/15

Abstract

Saba Ismail is a Co-Founder of Aware Girls. At the age of 15, she co-founded Aware Girls for the empowerment of young women in leadership capacities and to advance social change. She completed a Masters in Biotechnology from COMSATS University Abbot Asad and the Hurford Youth Fellowship with the National Endowment for Democracy. She has worked as Youth Ambassador for Asia Pacific Youth Network (APYN: 2012-2013), the Steering Committee of UNOY, and is an alumnus of the International Visitors Leadership Program in the United States. Ismail was recognized by Foreign Policy as one of the 100 Leader Global Thinkers in 2013. She is the recipient of the Chirac Prize for Conflict Prevention. She discusses: human rights and the family in Pakistan; and Gulalai Ismail and Aware Girls.

Keywords: Aware Girls, girls’ rights, Gulalai Ismail, Pakistan, women’s rights.

Conversation with Saba Ismail on Pakistan, Women’s Rights Organizing, and Raids Against the Ismail Family: Co-Founder, Aware Girls (2)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

*Interview conducted July 2, 2020.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Now, how was Aware Girls seen within Pakistan or Pakistani society for years up until a few years ago? Was it mostly positive or mostly negative?

Saba Ismail[1],[2]: It was both. Our work had a great impact on women in Pakistan. We advocated for anti-sexual harassment laws in Pakistan. We advocated for gay rights. We advocated for women in the informal sector, their rights.

We advocated for enhancing the political participation of women in the political process of the country. We helped young women to run in local elections, in the last local elections, in Pakistan. It was historic.

In some villages, it was the first time that women ran for elections. They were amazing. Young women and girls wanted to be a part of the organization and part of the programs. In our organization, we would not just do a one-time training or a one-day activity.

We would engage people over a long period, as long as 1-year. Some have been engaged for years in our programs. Women felt safe working as employees and being part of the programs. They knew it was all women as a platform.

They felt safe to be part of the institution, felt safe to be given opportunities. As I said about these women who ran in the local elections, we are seeing the change brought by Aware Girls. So, there was definitely a huge impact of our work, in our community.

There were men who started supporting women’s rights and women’s issues, e.g., women’s political participation. One of these women who ran for local election. One was run by men in the family. It was helping these women to win these elections.

It wasn’t just women. It was for men too. We reached more than 10,000 young people, preventing them from being taken by the militant organizations. We have been able to help them to promote the values of tolerance, non-violence, and peace.

The impact was huge reaching out to so many young people directly, helping women running elections, helping women run in and participate in political processes. We help run something started back in 2012.

We had something on young women in leadership. We had this in the 16 days of activism. We were raising awareness among women, “If there is violence, report it.” Women were like, “We can report violence. We should report it.”

There should be a place if an action is taken. If a woman is in danger, or if a woman needs a shelter or psychological support, medical support, we started a helpline, started provided free legal services to women facing domestic violence. We established strong educational institutions across the province.

We would do partnerships and programs. We would go to the colleges and campuses and talk on women’s rights, sexual reproductive health and rights, the issues of human rights in general, and peace.

We had good networking and partnership-building with other civil society organizations, including institutes. Even with government agencies, we had good working relationships.

We had women who worked in the informal sector. We developed a good relationship with the Labour Department. Women who were domestic workers or who work in the home are not considered labourers. They are not entitled to basic income.

They’re not entitled to sick leave. They are not entitled to anything anyone working in the formal sector would get normally. We worked with the Labour Department. So, they can help us in making women who are working in the informal sector seen as doing proper work.

Aware Girls established the first ever union of women domestic workers and home-based workers. It was the first ever time, where we organized hundreds and hundreds of women from the informal sector and built their capacity first.

It was educating why labour rights were important for them. We developed programs for them. When we were working in the Pakistani Labour Department, we had relationships with the media. When we ran these conferences and programs, we would always get really good coverage from great media channels.

It would always be people coming from the media. Whether the media or the government offices, educational institutions, or other civil society organizations, or even communities, we used to work with the communities.

It was the only young women led organization in the whole country. Definitely, it was safety. They knew that they would learn something. Also, families would see the change in their own family members.

For example, one story I remember, when I was working with the domestic workers and home-based workers in 2014, when I was organizing some of these programs, we had to postpone some programs because the army public schools were attacked.

It was attacked where more than 140 children were killed. We had to postpone. There were some other administrative issues. We had to stop our programs for 3 months. When we started the program, when everything was set to restart the programs, our team went to the homes of these women to inform them. We were restarting the program.

One woman was not home. Our team member left the message with the husband. This woman, at that time, when we stopped the program, this woman went to Afghanistan because people have relatives in Afghanistan.

But they are refugees. They are doing the work in the informal sector. She went to Afghanistan to meet her relatives. When our team went back and said, “We are restarting the program.” The husband called the wife and said, “You need to come back because your program is restarting. So, you need to be here.”

You won’t believe. This was such a huge change in this family. Because only when this woman started coming to our program. On the first day home, she was beaten by the husband. The husband said: How would she dare go to this? NGOs are viewed negatively in Pakistan.

How dare she go to a program organized by an NGO, the woman was like, “I learned so much on the first day. I have to come here.” She continued to go for the rest of the program. While coming, she learned so much. She transformed her husband so much.

A few days ago, the woman was beaten by her husband for joining a program. Only a few weeks later, the same man was calling his wife and asking her to come back because the program is being restarted.

So, when I think of the impact, it was definitely so huge. At times, we wouldn’t even know the impact or the change that we are bringing in the families, what changes we’re bringing in the society.

We cannot expect some few activities will change anybody’s life. It is not a realistic expectation. But definitely, what we saw, I know, of course, so many years have passed now. I still remember her: her face, her name.

That keeps us going. Gulalai and I are not on the ground anymore now. It was so important, brought so many changes to the lives of so many women. So, we have to continue the work. We have been receiving so many calls on the helpline, which I mentioned earlier.

They needed help in one way or another, help and support. This was the kind of impact. This was the kind of work that we had been doing on the ground. So, this was the positive side. You say, “Okay, how was Aware Girls seen?”

On the other side, we faced a lot of challenges. For example, it was girls at such a young age who can be leading an organization. When we would organize activities, we would be an all women and girls team, not just women and girls but young women and girls.

They would ask, “Where are the organizers of the event?”

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Ismail: We would say, “We are the ones.” They would say, “No, no, the man behind the organization.” We would say, “No, there is no man organizing all this. We are the leaders. This is our team.” It was an unbelievable thing for people to see young girls leading an organization and doing all this.

This is the kind of thing that we faced. We definitely faced confrontation from State and non-State actors. This was before the last year or couple of years. We were countering violent extremism in parts of the country.

We were addressing the root causes. Addressing the root causes is not so easy when you talk about the policies the country is supporting and changing all that, Gulalai and I were threatened to be among the missing persons.

This is back in 2013. So many years ago, we were told that we can be missing persons because we are working on these sensitive issues. They’re causing red flags for the national security of the country because we were preventing young people from becoming part of the militarized groups.

We did face these kinds of challenges. On one occasion, we were organizing on International Women’s Day back in 2012. This one government office called us and asked me to give them a bribe to have this event.

NGOs usually have a bad reputation. They would say, “We don’t allow you to organize events. You are an NGO.” All of that. When they asked us to give them a bribe on International Women’s Day, we were engaging different stakeholders.

Civil society organizations, men, etc., we were also engaging the government. When they said, “If we have to become a part of this program, then you have to give us a bribe.” I refused to give them a bribe.

As soon as I said, “I am not going to bribe anyone.” They immediately said, “International Women’s Day is vulgarity. Aware Girls is promoting vulgarity and Western culture.” They told me that they are going to ban the organization, are coming to raid our office, and then not allow us to do the activity.

The activity was the next day, March 8th. I had this conversation on the 7th of March. You can imagine the stress. We were organizing five activities in one day. We were really a small team, maybe 10 people in total.

We were organizing these five activities at once. There were more than 100 people per event. You can imagine the stress. Yet, we resisted this. We contacted the authorities and told these people, “These people are asking for bribes and saying International Women’s Day is vulgarity.”

There’s a mentality. Women’s rights are a problem. We face this problem in 2014 in Peshawar for the work that Gulalai and I did. At that time, Gulalai was on a trip. They attacked our home. They started to shoot, firing guns.

So, it was a very brutal attack. When I still recall that, that was really, really a difficult time. It was in the middle of the night after 12. These men who really stormed our house and were firing on the house.

They were firing in our direction and to destroy our work. That’s when we decided that city was not safe for us. That was another time relocating. We have been relocating because of these kinds of attacks that we have both faced.

In Pakistan, I haven’t seen such a case in which families are being tracked. Not in the past two years, those have been another story. Our family has been persecuted because of our work. Our family was attacked.

We had to move from one city to another. We went into hiding. That was a short time. We went into complete hiding and strategized how we would move forward with all of that. We have been receiving threats, attacks, challenges, harassment, as being women working on women’s rights or women working on peace.

There has been the good side and the challenges on the other side. In that, our father really stood in that. People who even travel to the US or countries outside. The intelligence agencies will come to our office, to our home, and will gather information and all that.

In our culture, you can’t imagine. The intelligence agency visiting our house to violate the house is really something. You won’t see it; it’s not common. Our father stood up with us. He would be helping us navigating whatever those challenges were.

Jacobsen: What is the feeling of being raided?

Ismail: It was scary, definitely. The society shouldn’t let this happen. It was definitely traumatic. It was hard. At that time, of course, when that happened, it was denied. We weren’t ready, of course. That kind of raid was not something that we were expecting at all.

We were not people to fight back with guns. Because, definitely, we are peaceful people who believe in peace and peaceful protest. It was really hard. It was like Gulalai was not harmed. It was Shola, my parents, and I.

It was the four of us. The hardest thing after the firing happening. Those people left. My father had to go to the airport to pick up Gulalai. He had to leave all of us back at home. We knew that if these people are still outside on the corner waiting for our father to come and to kill him.

We didn’t know. It was an uncertain event. Our father had to go and pick up Gulalai. When she got home, I told her the whole story. She narrowly escaped that situation. Because, what if she was outside? They would have killed her.

It was really hard for her to sleep at night. It was not easy. In Pakistan [Laughing], there was no electricity when she got home with our father. We were – literally – sitting with no lights waiting for Gulalai to come back safely.

It was a sigh of relief. The moment Gulalai came; we thought, “What should we do now? What is our next step?” That is when we went into hiding. Of course, it wasn’t easy. People were so suspicious of things happening. We saw one person standing in front of our house all day smoking a cigarette, all day.

There was another woman the next day who tried to enter our house by impersonating someone else. She was saying, “I have to drop something because someone ordered something from here.” We know that we never ordered anything.

There were people who tried to get in. They impersonated. There were people standing in the street in front of our house. There was a beggar who was actually spying on us. So, the very next day, we noticed some of these suspicious things, especially my mother.

She is good in catching these kinds of things. There was a person impersonating a mentally sick person. They tried to get into our home. He tried to get into it. My mother said it was suspicious and had seen suspicious people outside.

It was the incidents before and after this raid. It was not safe to spend one day in the house. It is not easy. We were a small family. You live so much in your house. Even then, you pack small. Those that can fit in the car. Then we left the home at that time.

There were people in cars following us. We ended up being safe, went into hiding. We moved to safer places. We thought that Islamabad may be safe. But in the last 2 years, everything has changed, because my father was abducted.

There were attempts to kill my father, attempts to kill Shola because they thought she was Gulalai. Even in the city, which is the capital of the country, my family is not safe anymore. That is why we moved back in 2014.

Of course, what happened in the last two years in Islamabad, as you all know by now, so much has happened in the last 2 years, my parents are not safe even in the capital.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Co-Founder, Aware Girls.

[2] Individual Publication Date: April 15, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/saba-ismail-2; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 360: Purple Stormfire

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/03/25

Purple Stormfire: Sitting in a straggle of purple hues, a gaggle of purple yous, storming through, worming to; fire blues, hire fuse; a purple stormfire hue in you, making it through to the blue fuse in the storm fire of purple.

See “A powder puffs brigade”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 359: The show jumping ratio

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/03/25

The show jumping ratio: 14 months of assholery versus 1 day; 1 day gets the punishment.

See “1 day:Guy::14 months:Lady”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 358: “The kiddie diddler”

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/03/25

“The kiddie diddler”: Is it gossip; is it hearsay, is it criminal truth here to stay about him?

See “Equine”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 357: “Recognizing the supremacy of God”

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/03/25

“Recognizing the supremacy of God”: A clown mask atop an otherwise decent document; a pit of hellish symbolic privilege sitting on a dung mound.

See “Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 356: Crime and Punishment

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/03/25

Crime and Punishment: Nature commits the ‘crime’ of moderation in the face of humankind; humanity deems itself arbiter over Nature as part of nature.

See “Where’s the delusion?”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 355: Taking flight

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/03/25

Taking flight: I don’t know if this is a something for you, too, but it must be; a bird in flight on a clear day gives serenity.

See “Giving flight”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 354: Canadian Christianity’s Crimes

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/03/25

Canadian Christianity’s Crimes: Multitudinous with comeuppance; and, the Piper is calling for them.

See “It won’t be pretty”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 353: Dissipative Process

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/03/24

Dissipative Process: Life is a dissipative process; at final rundown, that’s the end of the person.

See “Physiological back to physical”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 352: White Christian Nationalism

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/03/24

White Christian Nationalism: A racist extremist Christian strand committed to theocratic politics; they fear decline.

See “They’re dying”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 351: Eye of the Storm

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/03/24

Eye of the Storm: If I am the stable eye, and if you are the circulating, encircling wind in chaos, and you complain of the disorder’s discomfort; why am I or others to blame for your motions?

See “Own your weaknesses”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 350: The short-form Desperate Ignoramus Test

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/03/24

The short-form Desperate Ignoramus Test: “Do you pray?”: If they answer in the affirmative, then it’s a guarantee.

See “Stupid behaviours”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 349: Sum Over Yesterdays

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/03/24

Sum Over Yesterdays: I am but a Self of old selves & now; what is the self?

See “What is identity in continuity, identity’s continuity?”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 348: Why not a welcoming party?

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/03/24

Why not a welcoming party?: Evolution via natural selection in manifold selective pressures evolved conscience, feeling, instinct, sentiment, and thought, unguided by Divine Hand, merely lead by rhythmic cosmic forces to carbon engineering marvels; similarly, intelligent analysis and disassembly, by smart people with technological assistance, of these “marvels” can reconstruct “conscience, feeling, instinct, sentiment, and thought” into new thought beings, conscious operators — subjectivities — in Universe.

See “They will feel alien, at times, but won’t be extraterrestrials. A Mardi Gras is in order!”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 347: Man

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/03/24

Man: First-born of God Almighty; and a first draft of the final exam, it shows.

See “Errors beholden, no divine accountability”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 346: The Potential Impossible

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/03/24

The Potential Impossible: You’ve dreamt the impossible; so, you’ve made the impossible possible, in some sense.

See “Computable, not actualized”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 345: Birthright

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/03/24

Birthright: To what; Nature doesn’t exist for you, alone.

See “Self-glorification via entitlement”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 344: “Like, in our family, we had a thing: No slamming doors”

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/03/24

“Like, in our family, we had a thing: No slamming doors”: The rich and famous suffer as all; family secrets.

See “Shock and awe”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 343: Our lives are made by the deaths of one another

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/03/24

Our lives are made by the deaths of one another: I am transmitter, and you are a receiver, and vice versa; my withering is a gain into you as I gain from you, or rather an exchange, so life is net zero and transforms of transforms.

See “Reciprocity uncoupled, life beyond ‘you’”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 342: High and low

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/03/24

High and low: When you lower yourself utmost below others, you are free to lead from behind.

See “Shadows cast spells”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 341: No-thing Purified

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/03/24

No-thing Purified: Nothing purifies the soul so much as routine physical activity in self-imposed silence.

See “Some-one purified”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 340: Racial Supremacists

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/03/24

Racial Supremacists: What is with that fact; the fact: How come racial supremacists always look the least evolved?

See “Ignore the teleological assumption in the joke for the joke’s sake”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 339: This is not a stage rehearsal

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/03/24

This is not a stage rehearsal: Your mistakes are permanent; your lessons, corrections, and successes are too.

See “Arrow of Time”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 338: Sing along a song

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/03/24

Sing along a song: When I look upon my lady nude, a part of me sings a jester’s wicked tune; ten times up on the lady in looney tune, and to depart in a fluster as the lady’s in-dude nude.

See “Tryst”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 337: Why fireworks?

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/03/24

Why fireworks?: It’s too lofty; why not simply scrambled eggs and coffee in the morning together?

See “Good enough is good enough”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 336: Existence seems

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/03/24

Existence seems: Everything else is a footnote, including Plato and his footnotes.

See “Existence is?”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 335: “Hey”

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/03/24

“Hey”: Silent repose; lost looks, you’re with him now.

See “Your tone sounds regretful, one child in”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 334: “Democracy is over”

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/03/24

“Democracy is over”: A drunkard’s totalitarian attempts; a pitiful sight to behold, shameful parenting.

See “Construction site, age 15”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Pith 333: “Oh, so, you think you’re better than me!”

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Medium (Personal)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/03/24

“Oh, so, you think you’re better than me!”: I could punch you; I won’t.

See “Do no harm”.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Master Chef Craig Shelton on Economics and Banking Systems: Founder, Aeon Hospitality (4)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/04/15

Abstract

Chef Craig Shelton has over 40 years of experience in science-based cooking and teaching in the hospitality business. He trained in eight of the world’s greatest restaurants, including “El Bulli”, “Jamin”; “Ma Maison”, “L’Auberge de l’Ill”, “Le Pré Catelan”, “Bouley”, “Le Bernardin”, and “La Côte Basque. Chef Shelton has earned countless awards as Chef-Owner of his own restaurants including a James Beard Best Chef medal, NY Times 4-Stars ratings on four separate occasions, a 5-Star Forbes rating, the Relais & Châteaux Grand Chef title; and Number One Top Restaurant in America in 2004 from GQ. Mr. Shelton is also an instructor at Princeton University in the Princeton Environmental Institute, where he teaches a freshman seminar on the interrelationships between public policy, agriculture, diet-related disease and anthropogenic climate change. Mr. Shelton began his expertise in this area while an undergraduate of Yale where he earned his degree in Molecular Biophysics and Biochemistry. He is a co-founder of the think tank, Princeton Center for Food Studies, the founder of King’s Row Coffee, and a co-founder of Aeon Holistic Agriculture, Inc. He is recognized as a consummate business consultant with specialization in macro finance. He is known for his ability to generate excitement in his cooks and instill in them the drive toward excellence by connecting all aspects of gastronomy to the larger intellectual landscape – chemistry, ecology, literature, art and human physiology. His great passions are reading and ocean sailing. His full C.V. can be seen here. More about Aeon HospitalityMountainville ManorAeon Holistic AgricultureKings Row Coffee, and Princeton Studies Food (in the hyperlinks provided). He discusses: economics of hospitality; and banking systems.

Keywords: Aeon Hospitality, banking, British Banking, Chinese Banking, Craig Shelton, finance, German Banking.

Conversation with Master Chef Craig Shelton on Economics and Banking Systems: Founder, Aeon Hospitality (4)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: To close off, what about the economics of everything?

Master Chef Craig Shelton[1],[2]*: Also, the economics of it. I have a passionate love of the study of economics. The moral and historical basis, the heterodox basis, this expression, which I’m talking about, or the transmogrification of agriculture and the food system.

The industrialization of the food system, the Frankenstein’s monster that it became; it is symptomatic of an even deeper problem faced in the world, which is the systematic regressive wealth distribution caused because of the form of banking most of the world uses referred to as British banking.

Unlimited money creation power is given to commercial banks and other financial institutions. We don’t even understand. It almost changes capitalism into a command economy, which redistributes wealth from the bottom to the top and the young to the old through a mechanism of artificial asset price inflation.

This is concerning and one of the key observations of a book, which I am working on now. A contrast of various forms of capitalism possible – trying to bring to light little policy space with such phrases as “How are we going to pay for it?”

The reality: There is massive amounts of policy space, once we are willing re-examine the first assumptions embraced by us – without even knowing it. That’s a long-winded answer as to what I have been trying to do with my life and the food system, and trying to bring back authentic food systems back to it.

It is to restore human health and planetary healthy. It is looking at the looming problems. The British banking system compounded worse with income-based taxation. I think about the fact that when the entire history, of recorded history, of human beings back to ancient Sumer; taxation was always based on wealth.

80%, 90%, 100%, of taxes were property taxes, which corresponded very well with net worth back in the day before derivative instruments and such. So, what we’re living in, the idea today is this radical transformation, where almost 100% of federal revenues are collected on the basis of income.

This is a radical experiment in the history of the world. It has helped to de-tether real estate from the rest of the economy. Germany discovered this over 200 years ago. Germany had a different style of banking. It is called variously, “German Banking.”

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Shelton: Or Industrial Banking, in Germany, commercial banks are not allowed to use this power of money creation for financial transactions. Meaning, an asset not being created new. It is an asset pre-existing and changing ownership.

When you change a piece of land, nothing new is created. You cannot get a commercial bank on that. You would need something resembling a credit union in America. It is more community banking. There, and only there, you are borrowing true savings.

We have this mythology. We were led to believe. Banks are simply intermediaries or financial mediation via a bank. That the role bankers play is purely middlemen. They collect savings and then they allocate those savings out to someone less patient, more impatient, who charges that person a higher interest rate than the depositor. They live off the margins.

That is the simple folk tale people have been told. It is a malicious folk tale. It is the single greatest contribution to the world’s immiseration. There’s simply nothing out there doing more harm to more people.

It’s the reason that inequality keeps skyrocketing. I said at the beginning of my book. Let’s look at these 9, 10, or 11 graphs, here is America since the end of WWII, we see a nearly straight line of tax reduction for the richest and for everyone else.

Down, down, down, down, we ask the corporations to pay in taxes. You would expect profits to be up correspondingly over the next period of time. We look at the next graph. Labour share of sales, of GDP.

Down, down, down, down, every year since the mid-60s. It is a complete straight line down. You would expect the profits of the companies of America to be up. You look at the velocity of money. It is down, down, down, down. You would expect the profits to be up.

You look at the reinvestment of profits into new capital goods – down, down, down, down. It is every single year, a straight line. Look at the profits of American corporations, they are down every single year.

This is extraordinary. How can it be: all of the expenses to businesses are going down and profits are not going up, but going down, too? Then you see the buildup of corporate debt. It is due to the artificial asset price inflation of commercial real estate.

Commercial real estate is rising 10 times, 20 times, even 100 times faster, then the company is able to raise its own retail prices. It creates a massive expense wedge, which is first taken out of labour. This is the reason all productivity gains, not one percent went to labour.

Basically, this is from the 60s forward. These are fascinating observations. This accumulation of debt. The size of the money supply, when you include credit as money, money is a commodity. I think it is tautological.

I think that’s a false construct. Money and credit identical, not merely equal, that produces a theory of banking, which then is called the Credit Creation Theory of Banking. If you use Credit Creation Theory of Banking and substitute that for the Financial Mediation Theory of Banking used by all economists, you develop an economics, a mathematics, with a strong predictive power.

That is the weak link in the whole thing, in my humble estimation. Once you start to think in this out of the box fashion, one cannot un-see the seen. Its explanatory powers go down to agriculture. Why, on Earth, would human beings be so suicidal, so stupid?

In the last 40 years, the finite quantity of crop land, high nutrient dense topsoil; we’ve lost 1% every year. We’re down to 60% of the original size, even as population has doubled or tripled in this time.

How can we account for that? Industrial agriculture is, certainly, to blame. Because when you made it your decision to grow the cheapest possible food, like corn, wheat, rice, and soy, unfortunately, when you grow the cheapest possible crops, you are limiting yourself to the cheapest possible agricultural techniques.

Amongst them, how are you going to irrigate? With corn, you end up with lime on the cheapest form of irrigation, which is, usually, a pivot. It is aerial. It comes from above and drops down onto the soil. The first problem: it is not ecologically sound, and wasteful of a precious commodity, which is water.

Equally important, the ground water coming up is filled with minerals and salts. The process of evaporation only concentrates them. If you use twice as much water as a surface irrigation, you use four times the amount. You end up with salinization.

Eventually, the soils will become inert. That is, you can’t get any nutrients across the salt membrane. We are seeing this across the world now, in many locations. Much more damaging has been the plough, turning over the soil 18 inches as pest control or as weed control.

People need to understand. Plants don’t have a digestive system, like we do. It is the microorganisms on the surface of the soil, which are the effective digestive system for the plants. When you turn it over, you are killing them, temporarily, at least.

In the state of nature, you do not see this type of erosion. But when you start turning over the top soil like this, you see, in the near 100 years or 150 years, since the great migration West; we used to have 12 feet of topsoil across the entire Great Prairies.

Almost all the agricultural lands in America were 10 to 12 feet of topsoil. Now, it is 1 or 2 inches. As bad as it is in America, it is as bad or worse everywhere else. It is the second biggest reason for the loss of volume and square acreage of top soils.

But the single largest may surprise you. The single largest contributor for the loss of top soil is real estate development. This frenzy of selling debt, this embedded growth obligation of the British banking system.

The need this system acquires. This inexhaustible appetite for doubling the quantity of credit in the world again, and again, and again. It is the story of the person who did a favour for the sultan. When promised by the sultan, the man asked to take the chessboard and put one grain of corn on the first square, two on the second, and so on.

Hastily, he laughs and agrees to this. The court mathematicians come and say, “There isn’t wealth of corn in the entire world worth what you have just promised him.” This grotesque, insatiable demand for the doubling of credit in the world.

It needs placement. Credit, the bank credit has this one limitation. Banks, literally, can create money out of thin air, but only out of crediting it into existence. Some project or purchase has to happen.

The present value of the land for the farmer who has been brainwashed into growing corn, for example. The last time I checked, the average yield for a farmer who grows corn is only 60$ an acre, including all the government subsidies going into it.

So, the present value of the land, if you’re using for industrial corn production, is almost zero. You figured out a way to squander one of the most precious resources in the world to its lowest possible use.

It cannot stand up to the competition from real estate developers. The system is designed. They can get $200,000 an acre at present value in real estate development. To understand why this is happening, not just what is happening, it is a passionate concern because the system itself has taken on its own life.

I do not ascribe this to a lot of evil people at the top wanting to destroy the world. It is following rules blithely passed from one generation to the next. It set us on a path of self-annihilation. It takes a lot to not see the symptoms and connect them all together, when they have a root cause in the British banking.

It is made worse with a tax system based on income rather than property, wealth, or net worth. Of course, it is made worse. We act surprised that we have poverty or homelessness, or bad health outcomes, opioid crises.

It is so absolutely obvious. We have chosen this. These are all a result of our public policy choices. British banking was rejected by Germany 225 years ago. It is for that reason Germany didn’t lose its industrial base.

The German worker has relative parity in purchasing power to their grandparents. They can still afford to raise a family. They can still afford to buy approximately the same house, in approximately the same sized lot, in approximately the same location.

With some variation, it’s not perfect. There are no tariffs on foreign money coming in, which does destroy markets. But still, the difference is extraordinary. China adopted the German style of banking to a large extent with something called Guidance of Credit.

Guidance of Credit have three macros. There’s consumer credit used to buy consumer goods. Let’s limit the amount of consumer credit in our nation, so, we don’t produce consumer price inflation.

What about the second macro? The second macro are financial transactions e.g., when you buy houses, when you buy land, shares in publicly traded stock, and so on. In most cases, you cannot lose new money printed out of thin air.

You have to borrow pre-existing savings in a German system, in China. The third category is industrial banking. You will create something new, a new factory, buy new equipment to expand the factory.

That’s called new capital good creation. They allow it. That’s where the banks create the money out of thin air. The goal of German banking and Chinese banking is to make sure that the private debt to GDP ratio stays relatively flat.

That way, new money creation goes to the good of society in expanding the economy rather than just producing windfall profits that punish the buyer and reward the seller in an artificial fashion. This is the reason for the German miracle and the reason for the Chinese and a couple of other miracle nations.

They took this German banking system and elevated it. It is sometimes called Window Credit, Window Guidance. There are various names for it. There is variation between the nations. But here’s the kicker, Germany has never had an internally created banking crisis ever since it made this switch in 225 years.

What you begin to realize, this thing we call the “business cycle” is a complete misnomer. There’s no such thing. It should be called the ‘British Banking Cycle.’ Economists identified more than 100 years in the most persuasive cycle.

All this misery, great depressions and little depressions, are all caused by banks printing money out of thin air for the wrong purpose. Basically, collateral-based lending rather than for the creating of capital goods.

It is a mission for me to get this word out. My industry suffers from the distortions caused by British banking more than any single other industry in our economy. We have what is called the lowest productivity. Most people don’t know what productivity means.

They think of it as a virtue. It is not. A company’s productivity could go up, even as their sales and profits fall. Productivity means how successful are you in eliminating jobs and replacing those people with equipment.

In other words, the true definition is taking the annual sales of the company and dividing by the average number of full-time workers or their equivalent. When you do that, you see the average – 10 years ago, probably not different today – of all the industries in America combined is about $420,000.

But if you pick apart the various industries, you realize, “Oh my God.” Big tobacco is at the highest productivity. At the time, it was close to $3,000,000. Restaurants at the absolute lowest or $50,000. This is another area of gross incompetence, which is the way we pay for a social safety net.

It baffles the rest of the world, “Why could the wealthiest country in the world not have even the basic health program for its most vulnerable, poorest, and working people?” Not people out of work who don’t have it, but working people, nobody asks the most obvious question.

“How do they pay for it in the rest of the world?” Every other nation has it. They never said it. It is because it is distributed. The cost of the social safety net is distributed across businesses, but on a fair topline basis.

Everyone shoulders it equally based on sales. In America, we count on a head tax basis. It means a restaurant will pay 100 times the rate of employment tax that big tobacco will, as a percentage of sales. 100 times!

So, these are the kind of baked in policy choices that encourage a maximum degree of wealth transference from the poor to the rich and from the young to the old. These are choices that have been made through the use of power and wealth.

It’s baked into our cake now. We’re feeling the consequences of it ever more sharply. What a great time.

Jacobsen: Thanks so much.

Shelton: My pleasure, very much appreciated.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Founder, Aeon Hospitality.

[2] Individual Publication Date: April 15, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/shelton-4; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Master Chef Craig Shelton on Common Sense Versus Scientific Validity, and Motivation: Founder, Aeon Hospitality (3)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/04/08

Abstract

Chef Craig Shelton has over 40 years of experience in science-based cooking and teaching in the hospitality business. He trained in eight of the world’s greatest restaurants, including “El Bulli”, “Jamin”; “Ma Maison”, “L’Auberge de l’Ill”, “Le Pré Catelan”, “Bouley”, “Le Bernardin”, and “La Côte Basque. Chef Shelton has earned countless awards as Chef-Owner of his own restaurants including a James Beard Best Chef medal, NY Times 4-Stars ratings on four separate occasions, a 5-Star Forbes rating, the Relais & Châteaux Grand Chef title; and Number One Top Restaurant in America in 2004 from GQ. Mr. Shelton is also an instructor at Princeton University in the Princeton Environmental Institute, where he teaches a freshman seminar on the interrelationships between public policy, agriculture, diet-related disease and anthropogenic climate change. Mr. Shelton began his expertise in this area while an undergraduate of Yale where he earned his degree in Molecular Biophysics and Biochemistry. He is a co-founder of the think tank, Princeton Center for Food Studies, the founder of King’s Row Coffee, and a co-founder of Aeon Holistic Agriculture, Inc. He is recognized as a consummate business consultant with specialization in macro finance. He is known for his ability to generate excitement in his cooks and instill in them the drive toward excellence by connecting all aspects of gastronomy to the larger intellectual landscape – chemistry, ecology, literature, art and human physiology. His great passions are reading and ocean sailing. His full C.V. can be seen here. More about Aeon HospitalityMountainville ManorAeon Holistic AgricultureKings Row Coffee, and Princeton Studies Food (in the hyperlinks provided). He discusses: common sense and scientific tenability; and motivation.

Keywords: Aeon Hospitality, agriculture, Craig Shelton, farming, human health, motivation, nutrition.

Conversation with Master Chef Craig Shelton on Common Sense Versus Scientific Validity, and Motivation: Founder, Aeon Hospitality (3)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: What about on the side of food production? In other words, making a dish, delivering it to the plate of individual customers, what have been some big things taken as folk wisdom or common sense in the culinary arts, which are simply not scientifically tenable?

Master Chef Craig Shelton[1],[2]*: Yes, sometimes, I think only the Marquis de Sade could have designed the restaurant business model.

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Shelton: You could not have designed a model more poorly to do the bigger issues with consistency, delivering high quality. All businesses are supposed to have three divisions: marketing, finance, and operations.

The restaurants, especially independent restaurants, are basically operations divisions. For generations, they only had operations. There is no finance. A bookkeeper comes in and does the damage report every once in a while.

You have no marketing department with a whole group of people who study markets and test ideas and determine memes. None of that happens. I think it is partially because we have defaulted to the critic.

You have these evangelists, originally, in the industry. The connoisseur type critic who is out to spread the gospel and the wonder of arts at the table. It was kind of lovely, but it also invited a certain intellectual laziness saying, “We don’t need to market. That’s the job of the critic.”

When you’re not making a promise to your clients, things get wobbly really fast. It’s a lack of clarity of what operations should be fulfilling. The purpose of marketing is to make promises and powerful promises, and successful promises.

As you build the business, the promises should be meaningful to the market. They should be unique and explicit. People should know what it is that they’re expecting. All of that is completely missing.

If you were to say, “What are the implicit promises?” Since no one has a tagline, if you have a company like Federal Express, we can all remember the opening regional tagline when it positively has to be there overnight.

That is an extraordinary promise in all regards, extremely valuable to the people who use the service. It is unique. No one else can have an overnight guarantee. Thirdly, it is explicit. It is laid out.

None of that is happening in the restaurant industry. You are left with the default premises based on the word “restaurant,” which is from the French restaurer. So, what is it we are promising to restore? We are promising to restore the traditional health of the body.

Of course, wouldn’t you know? That is the absolute largest gap in the pedagogy of cooking schools. There is no training on nutrition, especially on up to date modern nutrition. What about the second? The emotional welfare, the restoring of emotional state of happiness.

Much of that occurs through the intermediation between the senses: taste, smell, touch, and so forth, guess what? There is a second great lacuna missing in the pedagogy of cooking school. There’s no teaching about the neurophysiology of the senses, none whatsoever.

This is why you will see every cookbook with such inanities as ‘seasoned to taste.’

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Shelton: Because if you understand how fluid the sense organs work, the one thing that you can never trust is sense. The momentary rigour of your sense organs. It can be extraordinarily precise, if you will, in measuring the change, the first derivative.

The change, “The thing I just tasted is this saltiness. The thing I tasted now.” It can be a high degree of precision in noticing the change. However, because of fatigue or desensitization, it is remarkable how unreliable the sense organs are.

The nominal quantity, the actual degree of salinity, the actual degree of acidity, the actual degree of sweetness. It can be off by many magnitudes of order because of the immediate prehistory of what has happened before.

Jacobsen: On a personal level, where do you get your motivation? It’s not simply having a high ability level and channeling it. It is drive too. For some, they acquire this from a personal faith. Others, they acquire this from an individual preference for challenge.

Others see it based in some kind of abstract ethical duties. Others, they want to make a living.

Shelton: I judge this by a moral imperative. I grew up as a dual-citizen in the full sense of the word. I enjoy the culture deeply. I was introduced to gastronomy. Here’s what I kept noticing, when I was in France, we ate with reckless abandon, including dessert. No one counted a calorie.

I always lost weight. Enjoying the food to the Nth degree, never measuring anything, never leaving the table hungry, always fulfilled, happy, experiencing the highest states of clarity, cognitive clarity, which I recall.

Then I come back to America to the standard American grain-based diet. I feel sluggish, comparatively, put on weight until it was uncomfortable. So, this is one reality. I am experiencing this.

I am going through high school science classes and chemistry, physics. I am being told a calorie is a calorie is a calorie. Obviously, all of the problems in this society are the fact that we need to justify the idiotic thing called Occam’s Razor.

This belief that when multiple solutions present themselves, then the simplest one is the most correct one. What is the basis for the claim? There is no basis for that. In fact, human experience should tell us the exact opposite.

Almost all things, in fact, that are important that we want to understand require complex systems mathematics, which very few of us are comfortable with and employ. We would rather have this totalitarian Napoleonic-type tale of the totalitarians, which is a desire for a simple folk tale.

To look at all this, and to look at what the standard American diet has done for human health here, and around the world, this grain-based diet and industrial seed oil called vegetable oil replacing wild, organic, 100% grass-fed animal fats.

It has caused more death and more economic harm, and more medical harm, than all the wars America has fought put together. This is a great breaking of the trust, in my mind. It is the idea restaurants are supposed to be peddling life.

Whereas, most of them are peddling death. Many of them are not aware of it. There is a way, in my life. I have been desperately trying to show through Aeon (Hospitality) with combining gastronomy and agriculture some things to people.

The reason French cuisine is still possibly the best cuisine on Earth is because French agriculture is the most beneficial, the healthiest, agriculture. It is the nation that made the decision-tree based on behaviour based on hedonism.

Whereas, everyone else was compromising that with economics. No one worse than America. To me, America and France (and Japan) represent the ends of the spectrum of agriculture. America, I can describe it as corn disguised as protein and water disguised as produce.

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Shelton: Toxic water disguised as produce. That’s what is interesting. Our entire feedback loop is the FDA, which only concerns itself with shape and colour. They don’t even measure nutrient density or nutrient composition.

It is purely superficial, which is exactly the right mechanism if what you’re selling is corn disguised as protein and water disguised as produce. So, even in my work at Princeton, people are much more comfortable with the simple map of unstacked agricultural systems.

Let’s compare the yield in calories, a mono-cultural yield of corn versus a mono-cultural yield of beef. Of course, you’re going to get more calories from corn. However, regenerative agriculture, especially integrated livestock systems, are not to be understood in terms of monoculture, but in terms of multi-culture. It means stacked systems.

You can have trees. You can have fruits. You can have a cycling on-and-off lands, which increases the fertility and the nitrogen fixation. The nutrient density of the produce can skyrocket. The quality of the protein and, most importantly, the quality of the fats skyrockets.

There’s a massive deficit worldwide. The major deficit worldwide is Omega-3. We have these damn vegetable oils. The point, which I am trying to make, is: If you use rotational management of herds and rotational management of produce, and those are well-understood, you rotate those two rotations on parcels of lands.

You end up with a pretty extraordinary case of biomimicry, which captures carbon. So, the net result is a reduction of carbon in the atmosphere. You end up with extraordinarily healthy output as a byproduct of the sale.

In a sense, the price of everything comes down, as long as you have the same scale. That’s the only reason industrial agriculture is able to produce – if you want to call it – food products. The only reason a tomato or a cucumber raised in an industrial farm is less expensive than an organic version is because of scale.

Industrial farms can be 10,000 acres. Most of our organic farms are mini-mom-and-pop places with 2, 5, or 100 acres. They are too small to use the same labour saving equipment. The automated carrot harvester that can do the work of 50 people, better, with less damage to the carrot and to the soil, etc.

For a long time, I have been trying to make a proof of concept to get to the next real level. Where, you are not farming 100 acres, but farming 5,000 acres with this labour-saving equipment. This is the idea of replacing extractive systems with generative systems.

The center piece, most of these problems, e.g., climate change. If we converted 60% of the crop land that we have remaining over to these carbon negative, regenerative, integrated systems, we would have more food than the current system.

We would be growing topsoil instead of destroying topsoil. We would have infinitely healthier human outcomes, so drop the cost of medical expenditures, including diseases of civilization caused by a high grain-based, high-glycemic index, toxic thing.

At the end of the day, this is the idea of integrating all of these things for the love of the biological sciences. My love of cuisine and human health. It is the diet related aspects of human health. The natural health of the planet, planetary sciences, ecological sciences, the environmental part of it.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Founder, Aeon Hospitality.

[2] Individual Publication Date: April 8, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/shelton-3; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Gareth Rees on Genius and Philosophy: Member, Canadian High IQ Society (2)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/04/01

Abstract

Gareth Rees is a Member of the Canadian High IQ Society. He discusses: extreme reactions to and treatment of geniuses; the greatest geniuses in history; a genius from a profoundly intelligent person; profound intelligence necessary for genius; some work experiences and jobs; job path; the more important aspects of the idea of the gifted and geniuses; God; science; the tests taken and scores earned (with standard deviations); the range of the scores; ethical philosophy; social philosophy; economic philosophy; political philosophy; metaphysics; theology; worldview-encompassing philosophical system; meaning in life; meaning; an afterlife; the mystery and transience of life; and love.

Keywords: Canadian High IQ Society, Gareth Rees, genius, intelligence, IQ.

Conversation with Gareth Rees on Genius and Philosophy: Member, Canadian High IQ Society (2)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: When you think of the ways in which the geniuses of the past have either been mocked, vilified, and condemned if not killed, or praised, flattered, platformed, and revered, what seems like the reason for the extreme reactions to and treatment of geniuses? Many alive today seem camera shy – many, not all.

Gareth Rees[1],[2]*: I do not have a great answer for this. Negative reactions that lead to death likely threatened then current paradigms, positions of power or monetary inflows. Those mocked were probably poor communicators or their surrounding kind were of low mean intelligence, making it difficult to be understood. Reasons for the opposite ends of those reactions are usually the witnessing of whatever groundbreaking production. Seeing is believing, and in such cases, it is simply novelty (not seen before). It is a simple rule of deviating from the norm. Deviating enough results in getting noticed and that is sometimes inevitable. It can also get more complex than what I have mentioned though. There is also the social dynamics side of this phenomena but that is not as important. People simply enjoy having role models or heroes, there might be an aspect of divinity therein. The element of rarity is another ingredient for such reactions.

Not wanting to be in the spotlight is probably due to most geniuses being introverts. If nothing or little is gained from it or they find the attention off-putting then perhaps it is the way the media is framing such events. The media can be obnoxious, so I am not surprised.

Jacobsen: Who seem like the greatest geniuses in history to you?

Rees: I believe I have answered this before. The ones that are also mystics are my favorites. Tesla, Einstein, and Newton are my favorites. There are so many geniuses that have lived as enough time has passed despite their rarity. Another one was possibly Walter Pitts, but he was destroyed by a certain someone’s irrationality and might not have been a genius but just one with an IQ >170 SD15.

There’s also Archimedes, Maxwell, Ramanujan, and da Vinci that I admire.

Jacobsen: What differentiates a genius from a profoundly intelligent person?

Rees: One must accept that a genius is more than one identified by IQ. This would best be answered on a case-by-case basis. A high caliber genius such as Ramanujan is extremely difficult to explain. He supposedly did not quite have the distasteful personality that has been most common. Such a personality is not static anyway, or at least is dependent on mood, therefore diet, health, social life, status, resources etc. States of mind change from minute to minute, hour to hour, day to day, week to week and so on. If Ramanujan truly received most of his insights in his dreams, then that is some very powerful unconscious noesis. It is almost as if he was given the knowledge as he claimed. This is extremely disturbing from an artificial intelligence standpoint. It implies a limit, but one can hope his interpretation of dreams are simply coincidental. In other words, Ramanujan was of divine being. More than just IQ, more than just being creative and more than just being in states of high creative output. It would take a super intelligence to deconstruct the algorithms of intelligence that he possessed.

There have been other models of genius that have been extended. Paul Cooijmans has two very well explained definitions that are necessary to grasp the concept. Starting from Eysenck, Paul has reiterated intelligence, associative horizon, and conscientiousness. I would like to add that conscientiousness is required to produce work over extended periods of time, it is not quite necessary to come up with the ideas required for the work. Conscientiousness also aids in learning, but it is not necessary to keep an interest in whatever one’s subject is.

Another important detail is awareness as outlined by Paul Cooijmans. From my understanding, being in a genius state, awareness is increased. This is highly important because not many discuss or reference it. I think this is probably the most common situation for one’s mind required for extreme breakthroughs. High awareness is not sustainable though. It requires a certain brain wiring/structure which is not neurotypical, and on top of that the amplification of awareness is regulated by dopamine/serotonin. Dopamine is the neurochemical driver of mania. There is some research that suggests being in a state of flow leads to genius, but this is something different that is not even that rare. Genius is the rarest of all. We can even stream a synthetic version which is by the pharmaceutical product, Adderall. This is something that is relatively new, released in 1996.

To sum it up, a profoundly intelligent person is much less complex than a genius. A profoundly intelligent person can be identified by IQ alone, if one defines an arbitrary classification as such. 160 SD15 is quite commonly used for this category, but that is just a score achieved on one test. Enough tests need to be taken to qualify one at that level.

It is usually said that Mensa accepts those in the top 2%, but really, they accept a score of 130 (should be 130.8) SD15 which leads to members not actually requiring an IQ within the top 2%. Paul has also mentioned this. This goes for any high IQ society though, including his own, Glia.

There’s more to be said about this distinction but this should suffice. Genius is extremely rare. It requires training of the mind, the necessary genes for the unique brain wiring and reception to neurochemistry. It requires intelligence and optimal personality characteristics. It requires time and isolation. It requires passion and conscientiousness. It requires luck of being born in the right era for whatever that genius is wired to do. It requires being in delicate states which are not sustained, but not all geniuses seem to require this. They are often molded by harsh environments, sometimes involving the death of a parent at an early age. A profound intellect mostly just requires a healthy upbringing. It also doesn’t hurt to have mentors and a strong intellectual social network or more.

Jacobsen: Is profound intelligence necessary for genius?

Rees: If 160 SD15 is a level of profound intelligence, then no, it is not.

Jacobsen: What have been some work experiences and jobs held by you?

Rees: Factory worker, door-to-door sales, IT support worker and software specialist. There are more but they are not anything special.

Jacobsen: Why pursue this particular job path?

Rees: I work best when I am at a computer. That will never change.

Jacobsen: What are some of the more important aspects of the idea of the gifted and geniuses? Those myths that pervade the cultures of the world. What are those myths? What truths dispel them?

Rees: The fact that the word “genius” is overused, and still used as an IQ classification, whether that arbitrary cut-off is 140, 150 or 160 SD15. It is not important; it is just annoying. The researchers know the distinction, so no harm done really.

Harm can come from expectations though, so really if parents think their child is destined for greatness just by evidence of an IQ score, they are likely to be disappointed while at the same time torturing their child.

Jacobsen: Any thoughts on the God concept or gods idea and philosophy, theology, and religion?

Rees: Sure, if I were God and had to please both sides, I would design it so intentional belief with heart was enough to make it so. If one believes in God, then God exists for them in their reality. If they do not think God exists, then there is no existence of God for them. If one wanted to live in an afterlife and did not want it to be heaven, that would be granted too, from God though. This is quite like the CTMU by Chris Langan.

Other than that, I do not care much for it. Some people seem to require it; The need for support or a framework. Provided they are not trying to influence others too strongly then it is mostly harmless. The biggest problems seem to come from wars caused by religion, but there would be wars regardless I would think.

Jacobsen: How much does science play into the worldview for you?

Rees: I am typing on a computer and use electronics daily, and mostly listen to electronic music. The result of science is the biggest aid to my life bar none.

Jacobsen: What have been some of the tests taken and scores earned (with standard deviations) for you?

Rees: My scores worth mentioning are as follows:

DynamIQ (1st attempt) 150 SD15

FIQure (1st attempt) 150 SD15

WARP (avg of 1st/2nd) 149 SD15

LexIQ 152 SD15

CIT5 152 SD15

PIGS3 154 SD15

VAULT 162 SD15

GIFT III N 158 SD15

GIFT IV V 156 SD15

GIFT III V 160 SD15

GENE III V 146 SD15

GET (avg of 1st/2nd) 147.5 SD15

Verbatim 148 SD15

VerbIQ 150 SD15

Vortex 151 SD15

SymboIQ 158 SD15

WIT 148 SD15

Spark 142 SD15

Logica Stella 140 SD15

W-Test 148 SD15

Jacobsen: What is the range of the scores for you? The scores earned on alternative intelligence tests tend to produce a wide smattering of data points rather than clusters, typically.

Rees: My scores range from 115 SD 15 to ~160 SD15. My outlier scores are on homogeneous tests, so they aren’t that meaningful. My attempts are also quite brief as I am not that persistent. I am not the kind of person that is able to work on a test for months on end as I end up getting bored.

Jacobsen: What ethical philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Rees: That is private for now. I will make it public later.

Jacobsen: What social philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Rees: I do not really understand the importance of a social philosophy. People will do what they want to do, given whatever constraints they wish to abide by.

Jacobsen: What economic philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Rees: This is dependent on the citizenry. Different systems work for different people, so I am not sure I would subscribe to one. I would divide the people up and optimize to tailor to their benefit and thus the system.

Jacobsen: What political philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Rees: Same deal as above. Since not one works for everyone, it is best to divide people up. Existing philosophies could have their complexity increased as an alternative, but that’s messy, time consuming and might not work.

Jacobsen: What metaphysics makes some sense to you, even the most workable sense to you?

Rees: My own of course. More detail on that later through other means of communication. I have a negative outlook on the utility of metaphysics. It is hard to transform it into meaningful use for everyone. Making a framework isomorphic to sensory experience is not only very difficult, but not even really necessary.

Jacobsen: What is theology to you? Is this an important part of life for you?

Rees: Theology is an interesting development. People long for an answer and the popular one has seemed to be an easy way to deal with the inception of reality. It is not that important to me.

Jacobsen: What worldview-encompassing philosophical system makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Rees: That intelligence rules all and determines the future.

Jacobsen: What provides meaning in life for you?

Rees: Positive sensory experiences. Being on the computer, being with a woman or exercising. Daydreaming. I am a slave to dopamine as is everyone that is free enough to benefit from it.

Jacobsen: Is meaning externally derived, internally generated, both, or something else?

Rees: Meaning is determined by level of investment, which can be associated with low to high level attribution and time. It is obviously external mapped then internally processed, executed by a continuous process we call consciousness/awareness.

Jacobsen: Do you believe in an afterlife? If so, why, and what form? If not, why not?

Rees: An afterlife could be fun. I would not mind one. I also would not say I believe in it since it implies uncertainty. If it is a possibility then cool, sign me up.

Jacobsen: What do you make of the mystery and transience of life?

Rees: I have no idea. Life just is. If there is a higher order of being then it is not going to be easy to reach.

Jacobsen: What is love to you? 

Rees: A neurological, biological, and chemical process. It is a synergy of many things from awareness of the object, the experience, impact, and evolutionary bind that forms the bond. Pretty faces or beauty gives us dopamine. We cannot escape this constraint, but would we want to? The rest that follows is more complex, but the gist is that love serves as trust and survival for our species.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Member, Canadian High IQ Society.

[2] Individual Publication Date: April 1, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/rees-2; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Dr. Ricardo Rosselló Nevares on the American Social and Political Framework, and Puerto Rico and the Coronavirus: Former Governor, Puerto Rico (4)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/04/01

Abstract

Ricardo Rosselló Nevares holds a PhD in Bioengineering and Biotechnology. He graduated from Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) with a Bachelor’s degree in Chemistry and Biomedical Engineering with a concentration in Developmental Economics. Rosselló continued his academic studies at the University of Michigan, where he completed a master’s degree and a PhD in Bioengineering and Biotechnology. After finalizing his doctoral studies, he completed post-doctoral studies in neuroscience at Duke University, in North Carolina, where he also served as an investigator. Dr. Rosselló was a tenure track assistant professor for the University of Puerto Rico Medical Sciences Campus and Metropolitan University, teaching courses in medicine, immunology, and biochemistry. Dr. Rosselló’s scientific background and training also makes him an expert in important developing areas such as genetic manipulation and engineering, stem cells, viral manipulation, cancer, tissue engineering and smart materials. He discusses: American political extremes; and the coronavirus for Puerto Ricans.

Keywords: complexity, coronavirus, leadership, Puerto Rico, Ricardo Rosselló Nevares.

Conversation with Dr. Ricardo Rosselló Nevares on the American Social and Political Framework, and Puerto Rico and the Coronavirus: Former Governor, Puerto Rico (4)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Looking at Canada, as a comparative metric, we have the similar situation with two dominant parties, but three minor to moderate-sized parties in terms of election numbers. In the United States, much more extreme with the Democratic Party and the Republican Party. You see a  bit with the Green Party and the Liberty Party.

I think you may see this with the Pirate Party or something. Extreme support of anything science-supporting in policy. I don’t know if it is thought out much beyond that. This binary of two extremes becoming more extreme, as you stated it.

It is, certainly, reflective of a condition of the United States that is concerning because when the wind blows with the United States. You don’t what other boats it is going to rock if not bump into because it $20,000,000,000,000+.

Only the European Union and the People’s Republic China have a similar kind of financial force. What are you seeing as some of the root sources of these divisions that  then lead to this bifurcation, this splitting into extremes in either direction?

Dr. Ricardo Rosselló[1],[2]*: I think this phenomena, even though it is occurring in the United States, as you said, is reverberating in many different parts of the world. I think there is a reason or several reasons for this. One, I think social media has changed the game.

There are a lot of voices, which is good. Now, the sort of negative symptom that I see. Unless, you make an outrageous claim. You really won’t get covered. Let’s take healthcare, you have three folks. One says, “I have this proposal: work with the insurance companies, work with choice. This and that,” sort of nuance.

Another says, “Let’s completely privatize healthcare.” Another says, ‘Let’s give healthcare completely for free.” Who do you think is going to get more attention?

Jacobsen: [Laughing]

Rosselló: It is, unfortunately in my view, the person who says, “Just give it for free,” versus the guy who says, “Privatize everything,” because it is a sort of a seemingly simplistic solution to a very complex problem. That’s a fell swoop.

I’m not diminishing. There are some things where solutions may be like that. I’m saying not all the solutions are like that. In fact, many are complex and nuanced. You need to think of secondary and tertiary effects.

What do I think keeps on happening? People see that the more extreme – I do not mean “extreme” derogatorily – or on the fringes that you make a statement, or the bolder the accusation or the bolder the statement, then the more coverage you’re going to get.

It is a symptom of something. Someone might have an interest analytical solution to one of these problems. Nobody cares. That’s one thing. A second thing, I lived this. I told myself as an element of discipline when I was governor, “I am not going to attack the opposition. I am going to oppose them on policy issues.”

The strength of the personal and negative attack, the effect of it, is so much greater than anything positive that you can do. Inevitably, a rational player in the game will always say, “If I want to get to do this, I will have to play by these rules and will have to get nastier.”

If Nancy Pelosi stands up and says, “I kind of disagree with President Trump.” It is not the same as saying, “That guy is crazy and has to be imprisoned.” What one of the two is going to get the headlines? That’s where I think this complexity is a little bit out of hand in a way.

Jacobsen: It’s our fault as journalists too. We play into this.

Rosselló: It’s everybody’s fault. It is like a chicken and an egg thing. People want to consume something. Take CNN, for example, CNN was – 20 years ago, 15 years ago – maybe, left-leaning, but center-left. It was sort of an editorial push.

Washington Post over here, as well. It has gone to a place, where it is very bold, strict statements that fly in the face and catch your attention. When you see that, and you’re producing as a media entity, you see; there’s been other media outlets that have tried to stay informing the news.

Those have died out. Again, taking just the news shows, I say “CNN.” But you could apply this to anyone. Back in the day, I remember watching with my grandfather Crossfire. It was the talking heads show. The rest was the news. Now, it’s the opposite. It’s like there’s an opinion show 50 minutes out of every hour, then it’s like “this happened.”

Because of the strength of that, there has been this emergent phenomenon. In my view, there is this big center. That was partially my calculation and I’ll tell you how I failed. There is this big center looking for rational solutions. Neither from the left or the right.

What is the rational solution to improve the quality of life of the people in my jurisdiction? Because the initial conditions in Puerto Rico are different than the initial conditions in Vancouver. Policy that might apply there might not apply here.

My view was, “I’m going to try to apply this scientific approach.” But because I was so tame, in the middle, I was sort of over-run by the corners. Then there’s another thing that you said. I want to be watchful. I don’t to pass judgment.

But I want to be watchful. I hear people say, “Let’s listen to science. Let’s listen to the experts.” I hope this doesn’t become a tag sentence that becomes cute. Because you can repeat it over and over again. There’s so much noise. They won’t be able to tell the difference.

I can envision two paths. Either we say it and we do it. I have some ideas on how we can get there. Or people say it. They will say it from both sides, but just use different data to support their claims.

Jacobsen: Sure [Laughing], which is primarily anti-scientific.

Rosselló: It is! It is. Even though, on the top layer of it, it is “trust science, trust science, trust science,” but it is really “trust science only if it fits into your storyboard.” Before, there was not a lot of information. People didn’t have enough information, perhaps, to make the correct choice.

Now, there’s so much information. I fear people have an innate feeling of something: “I like this” or “I like that.” They will pick-and-choose whatever data fits into that as opposed to being persuaded because the data is so strong on one side and so strong on the other.

To me, one of the clear issues is climate change. I make no apologies that climate change is happening and is happening at a very speedy rate. Not only do I say this as a scientist, I say this as somebody who had to lead a jurisdiction was the third hardest hit jurisdiction in global climate change in the world.

I – literally – saw an island off the coast of Puerto Rico called Palominito. It was there four years ago. It’s not there anymore. I’ve seen the hurricanes, of course. I have seen the coastlines. For Republicans, unfortunately, depends on your prism, to have veered into this opposition view of climate change – some of them, it seems ludicrous to me.

Because there’s no more conservative agenda in the galaxy than avoiding climate change.

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Rosselló: Somehow, some way, “if my opponent is here, I have to be in a stark contrast over here. Otherwise, I get railroaded.” There’s a lot of that happening. There’s two paths. It could unravel a little bit. My gut tells me: it’ll unravel for a little bit longer, then things will, like the ebbs and flows of waves, start coming back to the shoreline.

It is still concerning to see that that is the paradigm and whoever yells loudest and has the craziest claim has a seat at the table.

Jacobsen: In Canada, our most cited doctor is a epidemiologist named Gordon Guyatt. He makes the distinction between equity and autonomy in medical systems. Western European, most North Americans excluding the United States, value equity when it comes to healthcare.

So, then you get kind of a nationalized healthcare system, in the United States, they value autonomy more, so get privatization more in healthcare. So, he doesn’t make it in terms of a judgment, but the outcome you would expect in different situations of evaluation, intersubjective national evaluation of what matters in certain areas.

Even in Canada, he said ‘by accident’ to me. We don’t have pharmacare [Laughing]. Some Western European countries have pharmacare, which allows them to bargain better. In Puerto Rico, you have a situation in which healthcare and pharmacare are not present.

Yet, after your term in office, Puerto Rico has the coronavirus impacting it. There is a distance from other areas in which there may be more supplies to give the citizenry. How are Puerto Ricans handling the coronavirus? What is the situation for ordinary citizens?

Rosselló: I think it is similar to what is happening in the United States, but with a wider broken structural integrity. When you look at a black elephant event, like a pandemic, some say it is a black swan, because it is unexpected. I think we should expect pandemics.

We should embed them into the design of whatever it is that we are doing. Now, you could see countries that do that responding better. There’s a plethora of different factors. It is hard to compare a democratic society to an autocratic society and how they respond.

Whether you like it or not, that matters, but there are some things that I think are important in this. It’s one of the big things. If we move forward with this scientific mentality in the United States and in the world, I do believe there is a need to create what other places have created.

But we need to tailor it more to a Western mindset, which is a foresight capability. The way I see this is people talk about science and people talk about government. Let me go back philosophically to what I have found are the major differences between being a political figure and a scientist, I happen to be both.

The scientist, typically, explores ad nauseam, looks for every little thing, analyzes, has the whole map in front of them, but are reluctant to make a conclusion from it. They, typically – and by “typically,” I mean “we typically,” the political figure needs no evidence, a whim or an intuition if you will. Some have it; some don’t.

They can make a very clear and concrete determination based on it. If this is the starting point, if you agree with this concept that this is a starting point, and if we endeavour to merge the world’s of science and politics and policy, there needs to be some bridges made to approximate that.

To me, one possible solution, they may be many, which may be better. One possible solution is creating or establishing a basis of your government, like the judicial system, but a system of foresight that is there to do a few functions.

Number one, to care-take for longer term projects, one of the advantages, for example, which could be a disadvantage as well; one of the advantages that Qatar or one of those places has the autocratic rule saying, “The next 40 years, we are going to invest here. This is what is going to happen.”

The liability in the democratic system is I could come and say, “We’re going to invest here,” and then a few years later. Somebody comes to say, “No, no, scratch that, we’re going to invest here.” It might be good, but that might also be bad for long-term growth.

We need to start segregating some of these things that are infrastructure, for example. It needs to be always changing, but a longer term endeavour because, otherwise, you’re never going to see those results. Similarly, crisis and disaster management is something that’s rarely on the mind of elected officials.

Because they operate – their space of operation is solving the problems right ahead or looking forward to a brighter future, but avoiding all these inconveniences, avoiding earthquakes, avoiding pandemics. I see that one possible path is creating a foresight function, embed it into government.

You put scientists there. But also, you put project managers there. The idea is you have all of these people in a dormant state for some time planning, preparing, and doing these things with foresight, expecting, and helping.

In the dormant state, you help the leader develop his path. So, you give the leader, “Hey, here are all the conditions, these are all the things that we see. These are all of the facts. You create a path forward. These are the things that we see. These are the things that we need to look at, and consider.”

Say an earthquake, a hurricane, or a pandemic hit, then these teams, different to the rest of the political establishment, they’re ready to be activated, because they are thinking about this all the time. You couple this with project management, then you deploy.

Now, for example, the United States has FEMA. FEMA is another big bureaucratic monster. It gives a lot of money and that’s great. But it is nowhere near as effective. I’ve had this thought for four years. I tried to implement this in Puerto Rico.

It was a long-term path forward. The pandemic highlights why this is necessary. With the pandemic, you are battling a virus that is really 14-days ahead of you. A lot of policymakers that didn’t understand that were always going to be behind the curve.

They were reacting what is happening today. What is really happening, it is what you are projecting happening in 14 days. I think establishing that model will be very helpful. So, bringing it back to Puerto Rico and to the United States, I think they lack that model. Singapore has that model. Great Britain in some parts has that model.

Again, other factors, just by the sheer or the immediate reaction of some of these countries, “Hey, put a mask on”; whereas, others took months. The numbers are staggering in terms of the difference that one fact provided. I think there needs to be that bridge between science and policy, and politics.

There needs to be that institutionalized mentality of how we create this. I know it’s very raw how I foresee it. But I envision it as a judicial system if you will, which runs parallel and takes care of some of these things that are longer term and reacts to these phenomena.

To me, what is evidently clear, whether for good or for bad, complexity is going to keep increasing. If you have people thinking linearly in positions of power, they’re going to shoot themselves in the foot one time after the next.

Whereas, if you have people understanding complexity, maybe not controlling it, but, at least, understanding it, it changes the ballgame completely.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Former Governor, Puerto Rico.

[2] Individual Publication Date: April 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/rossello-4; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Master Chef Craig Shelton on Science, Food, Farming, and Finance: Founder, Aeon Hospitality (2)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/04/01

Abstract

Chef Craig Shelton has over 40 years of experience in science-based cooking and teaching in the hospitality business. He trained in eight of the world’s greatest restaurants, including “El Bulli”, “Jamin”; “Ma Maison”, “L’Auberge de l’Ill”, “Le Pré Catelan”, “Bouley”, “Le Bernardin”, and “La Côte Basque. Chef Shelton has earned countless awards as Chef-Owner of his own restaurants including a James Beard Best Chef medal, NY Times 4-Stars ratings on four separate occasions, a 5-Star Forbes rating, the Relais & Châteaux Grand Chef title; and Number One Top Restaurant in America in 2004 from GQ. Mr. Shelton is also an instructor at Princeton University in the Princeton Environmental Institute, where he teaches a freshman seminar on the interrelationships between public policy, agriculture, diet-related disease and anthropogenic climate change. Mr. Shelton began his expertise in this area while an undergraduate of Yale where he earned his degree in Molecular Biophysics and Biochemistry. He is a co-founder of the think tank, Princeton Center for Food Studies, the founder of King’s Row Coffee, and a co-founder of Aeon Holistic Agriculture, Inc. He is recognized as a consummate business consultant with specialization in macro finance. He is known for his ability to generate excitement in his cooks and instill in them the drive toward excellence by connecting all aspects of gastronomy to the larger intellectual landscape – chemistry, ecology, literature, art and human physiology. His great passions are reading and ocean sailing. His full C.V. can be seen here. More about Aeon HospitalityMountainville ManorAeon Holistic AgricultureKings Row Coffee, and Princeton Studies Food (in the hyperlinks provided). He discusses: science; Aeon Hospitality; financial consulting; awards; and restaurant models.

Keywords: Aeon Hospitality, Craig Shelton, culinary arts, enterprise, finance.

Conversation with Master Chef Craig Shelton on Science, Food, Farming, and Finance: Founder, Aeon Hospitality (2)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: So, we were cut short due to time constraints yesterday around the subject matter, which you’ve devoted 20+ to 35+ years of your life depending on the metric. This is around culinary arts and business, and the biophysics infused into those, not everyone will do them. Because they take common sense and folk knowledge from centuries past into the current style of culinary art. When, in fact, the science may have some evidence contrary to what is considered wisdom from days past. Let’s talk a little more.

Master Chef Craig Shelton[1],[2]*: What is interesting too, there is so much pent-up demand. When you’ve allowed an entire century to pass, and have almost isolated a discipline like the culinary arts, you’ve isolated it from any and all advances made in the rest of the intellectual world.

Once that pin is pricked, it’s an intellectual prophylactic. Then there’s an explosion. So, it really came in the moment with El Bulli, so, it didn’t just like a light switch happen that one day; no one is willing to embrace or talk about or allow reading about kitchen science, then it became a little bit allowed.

It was like an absolute immersion. It went from nothing to everything seemingly in the top kitchens. It was laboratory-type equipment. People are pushing this thing on steroids. It was quite an extraordinary thing to witness. A deficit has built up over centuries, this intellectual deficit.

When the levy broke, it was quite a flood. It was really quite a beautiful thing to witness. To be in that picture for a while, to see it, it was important.

Jacobsen: Why the name Aeon Hospitality?

Shelton: So often, people and companies are consulting companies, economists. I did not use that because I wanted to emphasize an intellectual position rather than a personality. Most hospitality comes to a brand of a personality.

I was a very reserved, very quiet, very brainy human being. Then all of the sudden, it is my turn to be a sous chef. In those days, back in the mid- to late-80s of the last century, there was this presumption of a larger than life personality. I had to manufacture one, adopt my style.

It took a certain effort to get into producing a persona that I felt was required for the task. I think part of this explosion, which kept some out of the discipline. I think it levels off rather quickly. Then the notion of chefs was not so thoughtful.

It suddenly allowed for a much broader type of presentation.

Jacobsen: How do you build financial consulting into the expertise you have around hospitality and running restaurants?

Shelton: It is a question that deserves a question. In the sense, when you say, “Financial,” there is a whole suite of disciplines in finance. There’s expertise in raising money. There’s expertise in managing money.

The kind of expertise that would come into play when you’re running a restaurant have to do with general knowledge. It’s odd the industry has no exposure to financial concepts, time value of money, pricing of risk.

The most basic fundaments of the entire body of knowledge in our world. But it is most useful for people in understanding the basics: What do you mean by “present value”? What do you mean by “these things”? What do you mean by “return on”? What is the function of a business?

How many thousands of times a manager said to me, “Craig, how can you say this project is upside down when it profits?” They don’t understand the difference between an operating profit and a return on investment, even something as simple as that.

It completely can change the way people can understand their job, the management of labour. So, it’s kind of like this. You have studied a lot of high-range people. You become more – I’m sure – learned in a range of subject matters, which is quite expansive.

Here’s this person who experiences a similar thing, which he chose to stay current, he is reading the Harvard Business Review vigorously each month. Every year, these kinds of journals publish lists of the most important business books ever written.

You start reading some of the stuff. There’s absolutely no limit to how much it could improve your business, how much it improves your life, your inner life and relationships in life. What you find, in a lot of industries, this is a long-time standing observation.

Entrepreneurs are too busy to work on improving their business, more lives suffer, even more tragic on the lives on their employees who dramatically suffer for it. The businesses suffer for it. They are underperforming.

I have read so much. I have real-world experience, as I have CPAs in my companies, MBAs in my companies, who helped me along; I tried to get mentors for me, from an early age. One of my business partners was very, very, very, successful as a United States developer.

He allowed me to be his mentor, and an understudy of how he runs successful companies. Like you, when I was young, my restaurant was in the middle of the world’s most important pharmaceutical center, New Jersey.

One of the centers for telecommunications was there and for business products, e.g., insurance, financial services. So, the people who come to my restaurant every single day for 25 years are some of the best minds in the business world, in the entire world, I befriended many of them.

They were absolutely generous in sharing their insights with me. I was extremely fortunate in that way.

Jacobsen: You’ve had a number of awards. “#1 Top Restaurant in America” in 2004 from GQ, a 5-star Forbes rating, a number of distinguished titles or accolades for performance in your relevant area. What do you attribute most of the success at the highest to now?

How do you integrate that into more improvements still in the performance of a restaurant, of the consulting, while still keeping your feet on the ground while acknowledging individual and collective excellence either under the individual or business name?

Shelton: One of my taglines is “I never witnessed a business in my life ever working harder than us.” Every restaurant, generally, which I have seen fail, is people weren’t thinking deeply enough, certainly not deeply often enough.

Jacobsen: In what way?

Shelton: In every way, business models, the business model was broken 150 years ago, but there was more demand than supply. If you had 25 days, I could start talking and never repeat myself and not run out of new topics.

I’ll give you the simplest example. Every restaurant in the world punishes good customers and rewards bad customers. All of the incentives in restaurants reward things that lead to bankruptcy and punishes things leading to financial success.

Jacobsen: Is this where the restaurant models were broken 150 years ago?

Shelton: Yes, if you used to own a restaurant in Italy or France, you most likely inherited it from your father, who inherited it from his. Your pricing model did not need to include capitalization expenses, because you inherited it tax-free.

Secondly, who were your workers, all these family enterprises didn’t have to account for labour. It was your family. You didn’t need to pay for all the labour and made profits if you will. Overhead was generally diminished because there weren’t a lot of insurance costs, of marketing going on, etc.

These things were negligible to many of their costs. Primarily, it had not yet gone through the artificial asset inflation process of the 20th century in British banking and in Europe. So, what I observed early on, the fact of three macros in business.

The cost of the materials on the plate or on the glass if you’re drinking. Then you have labour, which is the second macro. The third is all the single line items. We call this overhead in business. It could be 500 things all related to this.

At any rate, the point is: If you think about it, if you do the thought experiments, you understand the labour or the overhead costs are, actually, fixed costs. That is, if you filled your restaurants with 100 diners, and if each dish sold might be a chicken dish, on one given night in the suburbs with a single seating (they’re not turning the tables in America in the suburbs), you’re selling chicken at 20$ per person.

On some other arbitrary night, it happens the same number of people, 100 people, came in and ordered the most expensive item. Let’s say the rack of lamb at 50$ a plate, would there be a penny’s difference in the labour between those items? The answer is “No.”

Would there be a penny’s difference in the overhead? The answer is “No.” Those things have to be considered fixed. The only variable thing is the cost of goods. There is not a single restaurant in the world pricing to that reality.

No one says, “I have a million dollars a year of the combination of labour and overhead. I have 100,000 customers in the year. Therefore, my pricing model should be 1,000,000/100,000 equals 10$ at fixed cost plus the variable cost, whatever it is that they choose to eat, plus some amount of profit.

There is not a single restaurant in the world, outside of my own clients, which have even the awareness of this. Then what happens, they are coached by the finance community into this faulty way of thinking, which is the way you price everything.

You only worry about the cost of goods. A 5$ cost of goods for this dish, mark it up times 3 for 15$. A 10$ cost of goods goes to 30$. A 15$ dish goes to 45$, and so forth. Then they’re told, “If you subtract the cost of goods from the retail price, then you get gross margin.”

In those cases, 15 minus 5 is 10, 30 minus 10 is 20, 45 minus 10 is 35. Now, we’re going to allocate a fixed percentage of the gross margin to account for labour in each of these cases, which is – let’s say – 50% of gross margin.

So, that’d be 5$, 10$, and 15$. The overhead may be 40% of those margins: 4$, 8$, and 12$. That is a mathematical representation. It seems to tell you. In the case of the first dish, you are making 1$ on the first, 2$ on the second, 3$ on the third.

It is like mainstream economics, but it excludes banks, credit, and money from their formulas describing the new economy. It may be beautiful mathematics. It may be stunningly beautiful mathematics. But does it have any relationship whatsoever to reality?

The answer in both cases is “no.” Hence, the almost perfect failure of prediction in economics. They resort to calling things black swans, as in unpredictable, rather than realizing the models are based on false assumptions.

Why did you exclude this money from the banking sector, when it’s the single largest source of money? Perhaps, 50:1 or 100:1 depending on the nation. Economics entirely omitted it. It is a similar kind of situation in restaurants.

The reality: Once you understand, it doesn’t matter what the customer orders once the labour and the overhead is fixed. “I am not making money on the chicken dish. I am losing 12$ on a dish, which I sell for 15$. I am overcharging the customer.” Not knowing this, not understanding things such as what the true cost of using your purveyors as your source of interim credit rather than using the financial institution for credit.

These are multimillion-dollar mistakes. I can keep going on, and on, and on, where the first assumptions, almost everything held to be true in the hospitality industry, are absolutely wrong. So, there’s lots of opportunity if you can get someone into a place of willingness to do something generally uncomfortable in our industry, which is this thing called “thinking.”

When you have mispriced your entire array of goods, it comes down to this: Not understanding, every restauranteur has been brainwashed into believing that they have one business, which is to sell food and beverage; the reality is quite different.

The reality: You have two different businesses under one roof, not even in the same industry. You manufacture food. You merely retail beverage. When you manufacture, you have to include the pro rata cost, fixed costs, per product or per customer.

In addition to the variable cost, now, the beverage component is purely discretionary. It’s purely incremental. Therefore, it should be priced as no proportion of the fixed costs in it. What ends up happening, in most restaurants, if you do the forensics correctly, you realize.

They are losing about 75% on the totality of their food sales. If you took away all the beverages, you would see that they are losing the food part at about a 75% loss. That’s the reason that they have to mark up their beverages for an average of 4 times. That’s how they stay alive.

It is two mistakes trying to cancel each other out. You are gouging on the beverage side because you are mispricing on the food side. It is not that they are overcharging or undercharging. They are doing both. You are overcharging on the expensive items.

You are dramatically undercharging on the cheaper items. You are turning your generic customers, unwittingly, with your improper use of math. You turn them into customers who lose money on the food side and aren’t even aware of it.

This terrible so-called solution is to gouge everybody on their beverage purchases, which especially punishes the people who want the finer things, e.g., the nicer bottles of wine or the nicer drinks. They really get gouged. That’s one small example.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Founder, Aeon Hospitality.

[2] Individual Publication Date: April 1, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/shelton-2; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Professor Terry Adrian Gunnell on God, War, Lore, Armies, and National Motto: Professor, Folkloristics, University of Iceland (3)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/04/01

Abstract

Terry Gunnell is Professor of Folkloristics at the University of Iceland. He is author of The Origins of Drama in Scandinavia (1995); editor of Masks and Mumming in the Nordic Area (2007) and Legends and Landscape (2008); and joint editor of The Nordic Apocalypse: Approaches to V†luspá and Nordic Days of Judgement (with Annette Lassen, 2013); and Málarinn og menningarsköpun: Sigurður Guðmundsson og Kvöldfélagið (with Karl Aspelund), which received a nomination for the Icelandic Literature Prize (Íslensku bókmenntaverðlaunin) for 2017. He has also written a wide range of articles on Old Norse religion, Nordic folk belief and legend, folk drama and performance, and is behind the creation of the on-line Sagnagrunnur database of Icelandic folk legends in print (http://sagnagrunnur.com/en/); the national survey into Folk Belief in Iceland (2006-2007); and (with Karl Aspelund) the on-line database dealing with the Icelandic artist Sigurður Guðmundsson and the creation of national culture in Iceland in the mid-19th century (https://sigurdurmalari.hi.is/english). E-mail address: terry@hi.is. He discusses: the conception of God within Iceland; reactions to catastrophes; and the national motto.

Keywords: þetta reddast, armies, Christianity, God, Iceland, Terry Adrian Gunnell, War, World War Two.

Conversation with Professor Terry Adrian Gunnell on God, War, Lore, Armies, and National Motto: Professor, Folkloristics, University of Iceland (3)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

*Interview conducted May 23, 2020.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: The one thing that stands out is God.

Professor Terry Adrian Gunnell[1],[2]: Yes.

Jacobsen: Even in a Christian context, Christians will mean different things.

Gunnell: Oh, yes.

Jacobsen: The mentioning of World War Two is important because countries that tend to go to war a lot or have war imposed on them a lot. They tend to have populations looking to something to rally around or to find some kind of comfort or consolation, or some unifying image they can build a community around in a life of chaos and destruction.

So, if you look at the developed nations, the most religious country is the United States. It is off the spectrum. It is a very war-like country. It is still embroiled in two major wars, Iraq and Afghanistan, which has claimed upwards of 500,000 to 1,000,000, or more, lives depending on the estimates.

There are many estimates. The fact that Iceland does not have army. I want to take this in two directions. On the one hand, a country without too much chaos can maintain and sustain general culture. This includes the beliefs.

The people’s ideas about Fylgjas, a Christian God, about having a sense that the land is alive, etc., will be consistent. On the other hand, things will, more or less, be the same in terms of the trajectories we’re seeing with more comfortable lives with healthcare, pharmacare, education for all or most at least.

We see a decline in formal traditional religions. Those religions with practices and beliefs connected to some kind of transcendent object of worship. So, how does not having an army affect Iceland?

When Icelanders think of “God” in a Christian context or otherwise, how are they conceiving this being?

Gunnell: [Laughing] What is particularly clear, Iceland has been living on the periphery for such a long time. First World War, Second World War, all of the European wars hardly touched Iceland at all.

Jacobsen: That’s amazing.

Gunnell: These are things that Iceland hears about, until the Second World War forces itself onto them and Britain invades Iceland. I’m still not really sure about the word “Invade” there. Yes, it was an invasion, but it wasn’t an invasion that had much affect on people except bringing a lot of money.

It was a flood of cash into the country, which had been up until that time poor. In that sense, war was a good thing for them. So, this is very deep within the Icelandic culture of not having an army. You haven’t got soldiers around all the time.

It is not part of the way that they view history. The soldier, the army, isn’t part of the way they look at the world compared to the way I do or you do. British history is war all the way through from the beginning to the end: French is; German is; American is. Canada is drawn into it wherever Britain goes.

We carry the blood of so many people with us. Iceland just doesn’t have this. It is non-existence. In a sense, to other cultures outside, they don’t really understand in the same way that I do from Britain.

People of a different colour are new. Icelanders will go abroad and stare and walk into lamp posts and say, “Look!” They are intrigued by this. Same way by Judaism and Islam. They are foreign. Nothing against it, but they find it strange.

There is this still island character, much more so than Britain. A periphery culture all the way through. So, armies, in Icelandic history, very recent with the arrival of first the Brits, and then the Americans and the American base, which forced itself onto Icelandic mentalities.

You couldn’t go abroad without going through the American base and get accepted every time you went out there. The influence on Icelandic culture of English-speaking soldiers who were coming into town and going to dances and whatever.

The Icelanders keeping black soldiers out of the base. There’s a fear. This fear of losing the pure Icelandic-ness, which is still floating around in terms of language. So, in a sense, war and armies are never part of Icelanders themselves in spite of the Sages with fighting and battles there.

You fight. You fight for your farm. You have arguments with other farmers, but you don’t have really armies. They know from the Sagas, the contemporary Sagas of the 13th centuries of the civil wars in Icelandic discourse caused trouble.

They haven’t got time for space or war. It’s about daily survival for a long time. It’s simply armies are not the way Icelanders look at things. They’re very different to the way you or I will, as Brits and Canadians. A very strong left movement against NATO, against the American base, and so on.

The right will be more open to it, but not in terms of sending your sons off to join. It brings cash with it. “Okay, come on America, we like you if you bring some money with you.” In terms of God, I think if you asked any Icelander, “Are you Christian?” They would look at you as if you were nuts.

It is a lower level somewhere. This sense about superstition of the cross and a power out there. I would expect them to answer with a power in nature. They believe strongly in a sense of fate. What came out of this, it was a Christian God, which has somehow been brought in on the side.

But the two are very separate. To being Icelandic, that causes problems at the same time. In the sense, it has caused, to a large extent, the banking crash. Icelanders were brought up with the Sagas and their poems from the early 19th century.

The Sagas will tell them when you go to another country; the first person you meet is the King of Norway. Why? You’re an Icelander. It’s quite natural. You’re a poet. You go to Norway. That’ll do nicely. Thank you!

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Gunnell: It’s the equivalent of the American Express card. You have people in the 19th century. The romantic poets saying, ‘Iceland, what has happened to your fame of the past, the golden years…,’ and whatever.

What happened with the crash, they started fulfilling the dream that they’d been presented with for a long time. You have to go out buy a football team, buy a private jet, hang out with the royalty, everybody wants you.

It was a fulfillment of the idea that Icelanders are different than others. You could watch the news and people saying, ‘How could an Icelander in a country like this could buy a football team, could buy half of the main strip of Oxford St.? Because he’s an Icelander. They are different.’

The President says, ‘It is because they are Icelandic. They take risks better more than anybody else.’ It didn’t really bring out the risks that it would have on the economy. The Star Trek idea of going where no one else goes before.

“This is an Icelander. We’re better.” It is the ‘How do like Iceland?’ thing. When I’m teaching courses on Icelandic culture, again, these two sided elements of it. It expresses, on one side, a hope that the person is going to say, “Wonderful, perfect, better than anywhere else.”

“Why is it us?” Because there is an inferiority complex behind it. That you might not be. Then the rest is saved for the football clap. Suddenly, everybody wants Iceland again. Suddenly, I am being asked by bloody English journalists, ‘Does Iceland do so well in football because of their elves?’

Come on! [Laughing] Get over it.

Jacobsen: Who asked you this?

Gunnell: This was when Iceland was winning football games and it was an English newspaper wanting to know if it was their belief in elves. Basically, they know each other. They have grown up together. It is a stronger sense of a team.

Iceland has done some amazing things in terms of the strongest man in the world and the most beautiful. But only if they aren’t putting that in front of your face all the time, being the best. It is part of the, again, island culture: ‘We’re different.’ There’s something about the DNA of Icelanders.

The crash was a matter of shame, which they never had to deal with before. Of going to different places, like islands off Greece, the first question, ‘How are you doing financially? Poor Iceland.’ They went from being the worst in the world to not being the worst in the world.

The first to get over COVID. It is to be the first or the best. But there is a very strong sense of being Icelandic. That we are a little nation that has done so much. Different to the Brits, we’re just hobbits. Icelanders aren’t really hobbits. There’s much more dwarfishness about Icelanders.

Jacobsen: At the end of the 1700s, there was the catastrophe that took out 1/5th of the population. What does this do to people’s faith in lore? Does this look as if it’s, as you’re noting, just simply a matter of fate or the fates playing out?

Gunnell: No, the sense of fate is seen in people interpreting dreams for example. That there is something laid down. You can tap into it. There is a sense that your life is mapped out, a plan behind it, a higher power.

It’s not the Christian God. There’s a higher power that’s laid down. It goes back to the Sagas very much. You die and even know your fate/meet your fate.

Jacobsen: They sound like Spinoza.

Gunnell: Yes, there’s elements of this. It is very much a Scandinavian element. You go down bravely in spite of it. Things go badly. Okay, they go badly. We’ll survive. This wonderful Icelandic motto: þetta reddast. It’ll work out. [Ed. Literal: “It’ll all work out okay.”] Things go badly.

Okay, things go badly. We’ll survive. þetta reddast, people have begun accepting it as the national motto. It’ll all work out. It is both good and bad.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Professor, Folkloristics, University of Iceland.

[2] Individual Publication Date: April 1, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/Gunnell-3; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Professor Terry Adrian Gunnell on Old Norse Religion and Christianity, Women’s Changing Roles Over Time, and Fylgja and Folkloristics: Professor, Folkloristics, University of Iceland (2)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/03/22

Abstract

Terry Gunnell is Professor of Folkloristics at the University of Iceland. He is author of The Origins of Drama in Scandinavia (1995); editor of Masks and Mumming in the Nordic Area (2007) and Legends and Landscape (2008); and joint editor of The Nordic Apocalypse: Approaches to V†luspá and Nordic Days of Judgement (with Annette Lassen, 2013); and Málarinn og menningarsköpun: Sigurður Guðmundsson og Kvöldfélagið (with Karl Aspelund), which received a nomination for the Icelandic Literature Prize (Íslensku bókmenntaverðlaunin) for 2017. He has also written a wide range of articles on Old Norse religion, Nordic folk belief and legend, folk drama and performance, and is behind the creation of the on-line Sagnagrunnur database of Icelandic folk legends in print (http://sagnagrunnur.com/en/); the national survey into Folk Belief in Iceland (2006-2007); and (with Karl Aspelund) the on-line database dealing with the Icelandic artist Sigurður Guðmundsson and the creation of national culture in Iceland in the mid-19th century (https://sigurdurmalari.hi.is/english). E-mail address: terry@hi.is. He discusses: the political context in the early 1900s; when “Christianity comes along; the influence of religion in Iceland now; claimed Christian belief mixing with the worship of the land; a fylgja or a following spirit; and professional folklorist.

Keywords: Christianity, Folkloristics, Fylgja, God, Iceland, Old Norse Religion, Pietist Church, Terry Adrian Gunnell, University of Iceland.

Conversation with Professor Terry Adrian Gunnell on Old Norse Religion and Christianity, Women’s Changing Roles Over Time, and Fylgja and Folkloristics: Professor, Folkloristics, University of Iceland (2)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

*Interview conducted May 23, 2020.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: What about the political context in the early 1900s with famous writers like Laxness, Halldór Laxness? One individual described some of his writings as a way of giving a tip of the hat to women’s movements in Iceland before there were formal movements, and movements in other parts of the world.

He described them as the ‘big mommas.’ They managed the resources, the young, the finances of the household. Some spheres, not all, at least prominent ones, were dominated by women in the family and in the community.

Was there an adaptation of the lore around this time too? Or were these folklore notions a relatively consistent one regardless of relatively rapid – historically speaking – dynamic changes in either gender relations in the culture, economic situations or technology situations in the culture that can have impacts in the home and in the community?

Professor Terry Adrian Gunnell[1],[2]: It is going to be a long answer too. We need to start off with going back to the Viking Period and going back to Germanic tribes. It is very, very clear that religion was in the hands of women. You had some very powerful goddesses.

I got a sense myself when teaching old Norse religions that even the year was divided into male and female. It was a Winter more associated with women and Summer more associated with men, war, and trading.

Certainly, when we look back at that period, women are much stronger, in a sense, before Christianity comes along. The old Norse religion, certainly, has much more respect for independent women. You see that much reflected in the Sagas. You do not mess with these Saga women.

They give back as much as they are given. Very famous figures in the favourite Sagas, they are being read about on the farms and everyone is very well aware of them. At the same time, in the division of labour, women control the farm.

This is partly why I am talking about the division of the year. Summertime, you’re out working, travelling, and out on the fields. Winter, you move to the farm. Women keep the keys to the farm. They are in charge of the slaves of the farm. They are the bosses in the Wintertime.

There is a strong sense of equality right the way through. Gradually, Christianity raises the idea, priests certainly, of men doing the governing. It is the idea of men going out doing the fighting and the travelling; women are out in the farm, but not in a derogatory sense.

They’re very powerful is what I am trying to underline there. As we start, in a sense, moving through time, people are still reading these Sagas right from the beginning. They’re still coming into contact with these strong women.

Men are, certainly, as in other countries beginning to take over governance, law, and this sort of thing. At the same time, Iceland does become one of the first places where women get the vote. This is happening quite early.

There is this strong sense of women demanding equality. I am trying to think of other places giving that same sense. Iceland and Scandinavia are not the same areas. A lot of similarity of equality running across Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Iceland, which is somewhat different from other countries.

Women getting the vote is much earlier than in many countries. It is similar to Scandinavia. As we start moving towards women’s rights, that’s developing quite strongly among Suffragettes n whatever else in Britain. From getting the vote within the city and within the countryside, we have a sense of women demanding equality.

There was the Red Sock movement in the 1960s. It’s not new that Icelanders should be doing this. That’s what I am saying. It’s part of the culture. Certainly, they are held behind other countries in Parliament. They can’t become priests, can’t become sheriffs, and are held more to the farm.

But the respect for the female gender is much higher here than in many other countries. But it also the same in Scandinavia. That provides a foundation for what happens within the 60s, in my mind. I’m glad, at least.

This was a good place to have daughters. We have two daughters who are now in their 30s. I don’t think either of them has grown up thinking they’re lesser to men, which is a good thing in my mind. There’s more equality in wages and jobs than in many other countries. But I think this is a very Scandinavian thing, when it comes down to it.

Jacobsen: You have mentioned the phrase when “Christianity comes along.” What was the sect of Christianity? What is its impact on the present?

Gunnell: We’re going to have two levels. One of them is the slaves who come to Iceland from Ireland and those who have had contact with Irish Christianity. That is brought to Iceland at an underground level.

Certainly, many of the settlers say they are Christian, which is Irish Christianity. A missionary movement comes from Norway and from Norway back to Hamburg-Bremen. That, when it comes to Iceland, led by the Norwegian king; they tried to wipe out the Irish connection and act as if Christianity had never been here.

They tried to pass around the idea that Christianity was wiped out. It wasn’t. It was German Christianity. Britain has less influence here than in Norway, for instance, at that time. It brings in the idea of women had been beginning to lose their position that they had in the old Norse religion.

Men are beginning to take over both religion and politics. This is really the final nail in the coffin as Christianity moves in. You get the idea of the Virgin Mary, for example, versus Freya who will go out and sleep with whoever she wants…

Jacobsen: …[Laughing]…

Gunnell: … who won’t be pushed around by anybody. A very different image of women to the Virgin Mary or Mary the Mother. They’ve been given very new models. The previous model was Valkyries and women on horseback in armour giving back as much as they get.

The idea of the warrior women that you see in the Viking series. It is definitely there. Christianity formally puts an end to that and starts instituting things like women regarded as dirty for four days after giving birth, and having to be locked away, which I’m sure they didn’t know when they first accepted it.

There you go [Laughing]. Catholic, of course, and Protestant come in the late 1500s, early 1600s. There’s more in Iceland, seems to have been more freedom, within Catholic beliefs than there was in the Lutheran beliefs that were brought in.

Jacobsen: What is the influence of religion in Iceland now?

Gunnell: Fading fast, as it is in so many other countries, partly because of the various scandals connected to the Church, you have a number of scandals that have rocked the Church here in the last couple of years.

If you talk about religion, Iceland is different than the other Scandinavian countries. We did a survey of folk beliefs in 2007, 2008. There had been one done earlier in 1970. I was sure things would change radically by that time.

I was tired of people asking about elves based on surveys. We did a national survey with about 1,000 people in 2007/2008. We asked, as part of that, “Do you believe in a God?” I was proved wrong with it. I expected, given a range of questions, differently.

A large number of people said they believed in a God and a good God that you can pray to, which meant that we were dealing with a Christian God here. It was really weird because Icelanders don’t go to church and have no sense of the Bible.

I was teaching a course and doing an oral exam about a piece of literature in which someone was carried across a stage, hanging from a piece of wood, were bleeding from their hands and their side. Who was this character?

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Gunnell: They don’t go to church except once or twice a year, maybe, for Confirmation, which, again, they’ve got no idea about. As a friend of mine who is a son of a bishop and a teacher within the theology department, they say people in Iceland are Christian in spite of the Church.

In a sense, their Christianity doesn’t come from the Church. It comes from the parents. I use the word “superstition.” They think the cross is protective. You find them putting up crosses. You find them putting up icons. You find parents encouraging children to pray.

It is a childish belief rather than anything to do with the Church. It is about the figures. They are probably changing now. At heart, it was something as high as you find in the Catholic countries and the fundamentalist areas of the Stats. 70% of Icelanders would say they are believers in the Christian God.

At the same time, what is fun, it may have changed a little bit. If you ask them in European values surveys:

“Do you believe in God?”

“Yes.”

“Do you believe in the Devil?”

“No.”

“Do you believe in Heaven?”

“Yes.”

“Do you believe in Hell?”

“No.”

“Do you believe in sin?”

“Yes.”

Ha! Which means, basically, if you sin, you go straight to Heaven, which explains the banking crash when it comes into it. The Devil seems to have come to more belief since the banking crash, according to figures. But, again, this says something about the idea that everyone will go to Heaven, whatever they do.

It is a different Christian belief. It is very interesting. It needs to be looked into in more detail.

Jacobsen: It sounds like an inchoate, incoherent set of vague beliefs, where, in Daniel Dennett’s terms, it is “believing in belief.”

Gunnell: It is a superstition in a positive sense. In the same sense, we walk around ladders. When I use the word “superstition,” I don’t mean it in a negative sense. I mean it as a form of protection.

But it partly because the Church, in recent years, hasn’t forced itself on people as you get in some areas of Scandinavia. The Pietist Church worked on wiping out old folklore banned it. Here, the priests were not that Christian.

You didn’t have much choice if you were educated. People became priests. Everyone knew about elves. They weren’t really against these beliefs. It has been more open to spiritualism when the theology departments opened here. It is different. It makes Iceland different than other countries.

Jacobsen: How is this claimed Christian belief mixing with the worship of the land, in a sense, and some of the folklore that goes back many, many centuries like the Sagas?

Gunnell: What was interesting about the survey, all of the strongest beliefs in the survey were not the hidden people (Huldufólk), the elves. That’s only about 10% who say that they strongly believe and 10%/15% who say they don’t believe. Everybody else is in the middle, open to it.

Stronger things like belief in dreams, belief in spirits, belief in telepathy, these are quite deeply rooted and go back to Saba times. They don’t believe in Dobby the house-elf from Rowling. They don’t believe in UFOs. If you bump into one, you’re drunk.

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Gunnell: [Laughing]. It is not a deep belief. But the things that are believed go back a long way. The idea of having a fylgja when you’re born, the following spirit. They all go back to the Saga times. In a sense, they have been passed on by the reading and telling of the Sagas. These are literal cultures.

Jacobsen: What is a fylgja or the following spirit?

Gunnell: It is the idea that when you’re born; there’s a spirit born with you. It follows you around. A little bit like the Golden Compass books, where everyone has a little animal that follows them.

The oldest version in Scandinavia was an animal. When Christianity came, it was an angel. This idea that you hear a door go five minutes before somebody arrives. That’s the Fylgja coming. Or you think about them all of a sudden.

That is very old. You don’t find it in Gaelic belief as much as you find it here. You do find it in the Sagas. People have a sense. That there is a spirit with you, alongside you, can, sometimes, be a part of you, but, certainly, accompanies you.

Jacobsen: As a professional folklorist, what are some aspects of Icelandic folklore that you do not find in any other culture? Not things necessarily quintessentially Icelandic, but you never find them anywhere else.

Gunnell: First of all, I never learned folkloristics. I just researched and studied it. I never called myself a folklorist. What is different in Iceland compared to other countries, what I try to tell other people, if you go o Western Ireland, you will find similar ideas still alive.

Because there, as in Iceland, the move from an almost medieval world to the one that we have now, a modern, up-to-date, online culture happened in the Second World War, the rural culture, suddenly, because the urban culture.

So, memories of these old ideas are still around with parents and grandparents. Kids are still in contact with this rural, early way of thinking. What makes Iceland different, the fylgja idea is different from Ireland.

At least, the elf idea is very similar to Ireland, but you don’t find it anymore in Britain or Scandinavia anymore in the same way. At the same time, I say to journalists who are coming here. It says more about them than about anything else, about their longing for the fairy tale world that they grew up in, which is reflected in Thrones and Lord of the Rings.

This fantasy literature world, a place where people actually believed in these things. They don’t really understand how the belief is; it is a sense that the landscape is alive. It’s not that Icelanders are out there dancing around rocks with little guys with pointy ears and ballet tutus every Friday night, which is partly what they’re expecting.

It’s not like that. It is a sense of respect for the landscape. That was, certainly, in Scandinavia up until the 40s, 50s, and in Britain until the First World War. It is still alive here. How different it was to Scandinavia, in the past, as I say, Iceland is different from the rest of Scandinavia due to the mix of the Irish and the Scottish.

It is a blend. But it is Nordic as a culture. So, I don’t know if there’s anything hugely different, if Icelanders are that special when it comes down to it in terms of beliefs. On the other hand, what I said about the belief in God, that is very different to anything I’ve seen anywhere else.

One other aspect that is true too, which I haven’t seen anywhere else. You name your children after a dream. I don’t know where that came from. There are a few scraps in Norway during the Saga time.

Your wife is pregnant and dreams of somebody who says, “Let me stay.” Then she names her child after that person. You speak to a group of Icelanders. A large number of them will tell you stories of that kind.

You don’t go against it because there is a fierce, “What will happen to your child if you don’t?” One of our children is named in that way. The landscape is different too. It is a volcanic landscape, which speaks to you through the sounds of the hot springs and the grinding of the glaciers.

People are aware that a volcano could go off by the airport and cut Reykjavik off, at any moment [Laughing].

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Professor, Folkloristics, University of Iceland.

[2]Individual Publication Date: March 22, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/Gunnell-2; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Dr. Ricardo Rosselló Nevares on Democratic Participation, Colonialism, and Former President Donald J. Trump: Former Governor, Puerto Rico (3)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/03/22

Abstract

Ricardo Rosselló Nevares holds a PhD in Bioengineering and Biotechnology. He graduated from Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) with a Bachelor’s degree in Chemistry and Biomedical Engineering with a concentration in Developmental Economics. Rosselló continued his academic studies at the University of Michigan, where he completed a master’s degree and a PhD in Bioengineering and Biotechnology. After finalizing his doctoral studies, he completed post-doctoral studies in neuroscience at Duke University, in North Carolina, where he also served as an investigator. Dr. Rosselló was a tenure track assistant professor for the University of Puerto Rico Medical Sciences Campus and Metropolitan University, teaching courses in medicine, immunology, and biochemistry. Dr. Rosselló’s scientific background and training also makes him an expert in important developing areas such as genetic manipulation and engineering, stem cells, viral manipulation, cancer, tissue engineering and smart materials. He discusses: the moves made forward in the 2010s; and the Trump Administration.

Keywords: colonial territory, Donald Trump, Puerto Rico, Ricardo Rosselló Nevares, Trump Administration.

Conversation with Dr. Ricardo Rosselló Nevares on Democratic Participation, Colonialism, and Former President Donald J. Trump: Former Governor, Puerto Rico (3)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Another aspect, I think the big cautionary note is vigilance about no matter how good things are; for instance, the approval ratings two months prior to then needing to resign. Maybe, not hypervigilance, but certainly vigilance.

When it comes to the people fo Puerto Rico, a big thing is a 500+-year colonial history. So, that’s a major issue. Well over 90% of the population wants equal status with other states. In other words, they want equal democratic participation for themselves, for democratic self-governance.

What have been some of the moves made forward in the 2010s that you consider the most significant, whether in the office or not?

Dr. Ricardo Rosselló[1],[2]*: The way I try to tell this story. There is a 500-year story of Puerto Rico. There is a 50-year story of Puerto Rico. Then there is a 5-year story, approximately, of Puerto Rico after that. We are a colonial territory.

We have been a colonial territory all of our existence. The first 400, some of Spain and Italy, after with the Hispanic-American War were transferred to the United States. So, never has Puerto Rico been an independent company or a full partner of another country.

It is something to really keep in mind. It is an inevitable part of our culture because it’s been embedded into it for all of our existence. The second part, the 50 years, how government mismanagement based on these differences, because Puerto Rico as a colonial territory got some government ‘freebies,’ let’s put it that way.

It became a tax haven for big corporations. Bondholders would not have to pay taxes on bonds that they bought in Puerto Rico. So, that was pretty active. It is an hour-long talk. How those mismanagements got us to the place where $72 billion (USD) in debt in the bond markets, about $50 billion in debt for unfunded pension liabilities, then the last 5 years, it has been a crosshair of how it crashed.

In my view, it crashed in 2014, when we didn’t pay our first issuance of bonds. It, essentially, removed us from the market or in the short-term from getting any money back, getting an oversight board. I’m sure all of the things that you have seen.

How do you get those things started and get some transformational reform and structural reform? Unfortunately, there’s no fell swoop here. Everything, as with a lot of things, before it gets better, it’s going to have its cracks.

Through it all, my thesis has been, “Hey, granted, there’s been government mismanagement. There have been all these things. There’s been corruption. But really, the root of all of this is that we’re a colonial territory.”

Citizens of Puerto Rico get a 1/4th of the same citizens in places like Florida. You only have to get a flight. That’s it! It’s not even complicated. All you have to do is make that transfer. That’s one of the reasons people leaving Puerto Rico.

My thesis is that we have been needing to solve this problem. One thing I did prior to my administration was spearheading a first plebiscite that rejected colonial status. We won the plebiscite. Even though, the party lost. That was in 2012.

When I took office, I, immediately, established a plebiscite for the three alternatives – statehood, independence, or free associated states – to keep moving this agenda. Statehood won significantly, but a lot of the opposition members boycotted the event.

The only reason that you boycott an event like that is that you don’t have a chance to win. This year, before I left office, I established another plebiscite that would run concurrent to the election. That way, the idea behind it is, “Listen, if we do it the same day as the election, you can’t boycott it. You are going to vote for your candidates. You can’t boycott this.”

The first argument is in the past ten years. We have three distinct events, where the will of the people of Puerto Rico has said, “We don’t want to be a colonial territory. We want to be an independent state.” The next is, “How will the United States act?”

I thought it was improbable, but it crystallized. Since I was in office, I started working with Mayor Bowser, which is the mayor of Washington, D.C., to create this coalition saying, “You guys want to become a state. We want to become a state. It’s different, constitutionally different, but we are, essentially, equal partners in this.”

Interestingly, both jurisdictions have a focus that minorities are a majority. In Washington, D.C., black people are a majority. In Puerto Rico, Hispanics and Latinos are, obviously, a majority. So, we started doing that.

For the first time, there’s a narrative over here in the States that democrats would stand to benefit, not only on their story, which is, “Let’s give equal rights to all Americans,” but also politically. Sometimes, I know, it is the ugly part of it.

I think that’s also a reason why some Republicans were opposing statehood. They thought that Puerto Rico would become a democratic state and would cost them two seats in the Senate. Now, for the first time, you have a democratic president and a democratic House.

With recent events, you have, by the smallest of margins, a democratic Senate. So, there is a 2-year window in my view. If these things are going to happen, they can crystallize now. There needs to be a push. There needs to be a push from all parties.

From a global perspective, there has never been a clear path because of what has been said, because what is at stake, to have Puerto Rico and Washington, D.C., become states. I’m hopeful that those things will happen and, again, I put my little grain of sand in that process.

I’ll still be [Laughing] pulling for that and helping as citizens or behind the scenes as much as I can, because I really think it is the single biggest difference that Puerto Rico has relative to any of the other states. It is the single different driver – the data is alarming.

Before, you would say, “Hey, so, Puerto Rico is the poorest state, twice as much as Mississippi or West Virginia.” Now, there’s more Puerto Ricans on the mainland than on the island. You can take what they represent as a state or as an economy, or health-wise, or crime-wise, and compare it to Puerto Rico.

The difference is staggering. I think there is an opportunity to do that and things will, hopefully, move along in the next 20 months or so.

Jacobsen: So, I want to touch on some of the recent political histories as well. This is the 500-year, 50-year, or 5-year. This is the 4-year-and-one-month or even a few weeks. For many years back, for many African-Americans, many black Americans, it was an interesting era with the Trump Administration.

Rosselló: [Laughing].

Jacobsen: As a Canadian, it was also interesting to watch from a distance. Probably, less fun in the midst of it, depending on your ethnic identity and political leaning in the United States.

Rosselló: [Laughing].

Jacobsen: Within January, the anti-science, the conspiracy theories, came to a head along with the ethnic nationalism, via the white nationalist form of it being stoked to a riot or an insurrection on the Capitol, on the Capitol building in particular.

As we all saw, one colleague posted about the QAnon Shaman. These sorts of things. From opinions and attitudes from Puerto Rico, what were the Trump years like for them? What was the reaction on social media and in the news to the insurrection on the 6th (Jan.)?

Rosselló: I can speak to this on many levels. First level is the quantitative level, I had access to public opinion polls. I can clearly share that sense with you. Essentially, President Trump had about a 100% approval rating in Puerto Rico. 10% for and 80% (or so) against. Not very different from the rest of the States.

Even though, the quantity was different. That 100% was staunch supporters. They were people that would take up the fight. Let’s put it that way. I think he wasn’t viewed as someone who did good by Puerto Rico.

I had the opportunity of interacting with him. I had this sort of question posed to me, which was, “I’m in a territory. I completely depend on the President allowing these funds to flow to Puerto Rico, so we can get FEMA (Federal Emergency Management Agency), the military, and everybody, to help in this moment.

There are people attacking him. I am a democrat. I was never really quite understood how Trump – I shouldn’t say that. I didn’t expect Trump to win. The election days in Puerto Rico were the same as in the United States.

At 1:00 a.m., I was still in a press conference. Someone said, “Hey, he won, it seems there might be an outside chance Trump becomes president.” My answer was completely dismissive, “Hillary is going to win. I’ll be working within her,” etc.

Then the results came in. The position I was in, I was like, “Do I trash the president just because everybody doesn’t like him and then risk the people of Puerto Rico not getting anything or do I have to play ball with him?”

Even though, I’m going to get attacked and scrutinized because I sat down with the man. I welcomed him to the island. I spent time with him. The position was very clear, very obvious, “I can’t put 3,000,000 people at risk because I will get a headline if I say, ‘This guy is x, y, or z.’”

So, my decision was that while, at the same time, the mayor of San Juan – who was also an opponent of mine – was heavily critical of Trump. She would get all of the headlines, all of the news stories. I was try to get to sit down with this man who doesn’t have the biggest of attention spans and is very much a “you’re with me or against me” type of persona.

I think I, for the first couple of months, was able to manage. Little has been said. But in the beginning, we were going to get nothing, zero. I was able to move that to $19.9 billion (USD). It was a bipartisan effort. Maybe, another time, we can go through that story. It is an interesting one.

I think, obviously, this is my opinion; the man is flawed. I don’t think he cared about policy. I tried to talk to him about policy: didn’t care, didn’t even try to hide the fact that he didn’t care. But I think a lot of people underestimated him, as well.

I have never a met a person with better political, raw political, instincts than him. I think that needs to be part of the story. That is why, and in some ways, Trump represents what is going on, this divisiveness. This is why some people see him as the saviour.

Even though, it is a lower number of people. Some see him as the son of Satan. In some ways – and apologies for getting into this, I think explains a little bit what is going on. The two side, in my view, keep on getting more extreme sometimes.

There are no bridges. There are very few bridges left. I think that’s going to be Joe Biden’s big challenge now. How does he rebuild some of those bridges? How do we get to a point where we can completely disagree on politics, but we don’t have to want to kill the other opposition guy?

In many ways, my fear with Trump is that he was a manifestation of that divisiveness. He, of course, poured gas into the fire, but we’re dealing with Puerto Rico. In the beginning, he was – I can say, I want to give him his due – trying to, but then his White House, apparently, disconnected.

As the years went along, people left. He got himself more in isolation. We could not connect with him anymore. Progress stopped occurring for Puerto Rico. That got me into several media battles with him as well.

So, I think he is going to be seen poorly. Again, on a policy basis, I think it’s accurate. On an execution basis, it was underwhelming. But again, I think there’s a lot to dissect. Instead of saying, “Let’s wipe the slate clean and move forward and heal,” we really need to think about what the hell got us into this situation in the first place.

Why is this happening? How can we start mending this? Otherwise, my fear, Scott: If the prevailing attitude is going to be from the new side, “Hey, you have to heal with us because we say you have to heal with us.” It won’t work out. I hope it does, but I don’t think it will.

I think there needs to be patience, time to heal, and time to understand the phenomena that was this presidency.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Former Governor, Puerto Rico.

[2] Individual Publication Date: March 22, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/rossello-3; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Paul Cooijmans on Glia Society, Games, Tests, Puzzles, Thoth, Policy, and Absolute Freedom of Speech: Administrator, Glia Society (4)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/03/22

Abstract

Paul Cooijmans is an Independent Psychometitor and Administrator of the Glia Society, and Administrator of the Giga Society. He discusses: animated presentation of the Glia Society; three-part polyphonic piece; a palindromic “crab” canon; mind games; Glia Society crossword; the memory game; the Mastermind game; tests, puzzles and games; domain and aesthetic; community; active is the publication; absolute freedom of speech; heated exchanges; the general impression from the more active members of Thoth; the “value” of the “golden opportunity” of Thoth; the major themes of the publications; the policy of Thoth; the frequency of Thoth; annoying moments; parts of the copy section have been altered in the history of Thoth description; italics and bold; unusual font colours, font sizes, font changes, font types; most common font colours, font sizes, font changes, and font types; “the mark of bad authors”; the single most read/viewed article in the history of Thoth; infrequent errors of copy; frequent errors of copy; and further disclaimers or caveats.

Keywords: copy, Douglas R. Hofstadter, Field of eternal integrity, font, games, Glia Society, Paul Cooijmans, publications, Thoth.

Conversation with Paul Cooijmans on Glia Society, Games, Tests, Puzzles, Thoth, Policy, and Absolute Freedom of Speech: Administrator, Glia Society (4)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: For those with an interest in an animated presentation of the Glia Society, they can see the website (The Glia Society, n.d.a; Cooijmans, 2016). Why the creation of an animated presentation?

Paul Cooijmans[1],[2]*: At that time, in 2003-2004, I was taking a web design course, and one of the assignments was to make an animation in “Flash”. I made one that I could actually use. Later I converted it to video. To avoid confusion, I should explain that I took a programming course at the same school in 2002.

Jacobsen: With the “three-part polyphonic piece consisting of three canons using the same theme — a theme beginning with four notes based in pitch and duration on the letters Glia Society in a fairly trivial way — in three different manners,” what has been the feedback if any on the music and the animated presentation? (Cooijmans, n.d.a)

Cooijmans: I do not remember any feedback at the moment.

Jacobsen: Why have a palindromic “crab” canon? (Ibid.)

Cooijmans: Crab canons have fascinated me since the 1980s when I learnt how to write them in counterpoint class at the conservatory. One thing about them is that you do not hear that it is a canon. Another thing is that every note of the theme has to function in at least two different situations: in the top voice and in the bottom voice. That requirement creates a synergy, wherein the whole is more than the sum of parts. Double functions are key to understanding life and the universe. This is also dealt with in my favourite book, “Gödel, Escher, Bach” by Douglas R. Hofstadter. Many phenomena in nature, and many works of genius are, “under the hood”, akin to crab canons. If you learn how to write a crab canon, you understand more of reality and advance to a higher level of creative functioning.

Jacobsen: The mind games section has four parts: Glia Society crosswordMemory gameMastermind, and More tests, puzzles and games. (Cooijmans, n.d.b). What has been the feedback on this section of the Glia Society webpages? Why create this particular section?

Cooijmans: Very little feedback on the crosswords. A little feedback on the memory game and mastermind. The reaction speed test has drawn much more feedback. Someone sent me collected data on it and asked to make a statistical report, which I did. But I fear that its meaning is limited because one’s score on the test may be affected by the hardware of one’s electronic computer, in particular the graphics card or “on-board” graphics. Also, simple reaction time is only one elementary cognitive task with a limited “g”-loading. For a better picture, one needs to test other tasks related to working memory, perceptual threshold, and decision time. And the hardware should be the same for all candidates, so this is not something you should be doing on your own computer with software. It takes standard equipment in a laboratory setting. I see no way to do that with high-range test candidates, because (1) I do not have the equipment and facilities and (2) said candidates are living all over the world so it is not doable to get them to travel thousands of kilometres to a particular location. For the same reason, supervised tests, valuable as they may be, are not usable for high-range purposes, unfortunately. I tried for years because I really like supervised tests and the in-person psychological examination, but could not get more than a small handful of people to travel here to take them.

The creation of this section, too, was part of the web design course I took.

Jacobsen: For the Glia Society crossword, what percent of people get all the answers correct? (Cooijmans, n.d.c)

Cooijmans: I have no idea, no one has ever sent me their answers, and that would also be superfluous because the solutions are given on the crossword itself. Hm, perhaps I should remove them to make it harder.

Jacobsen: For the memory game (Cooijmans, 2003), what was the inspiration for creating it?

Cooijmans: Also the web design course, and I chose to make games that had something to do with intelligence.

Jacobsen: What purpose does the Mastermind game or activity serve? (Cooijmans, n.d.d)

Cooijmans: The same answer as the previous about the memory game, I would say. Regarding the web design course, I might add that the institute where I took this course also housed a bodyguard school and a stewardess academy. Both, on two separate occasions, appeared in a television program during that period because of students who complained about having been ripped of. The episode about the stewardess academy came from a studio full of aspiring stewardesses in their professional attire. My novel “Field of eternal integrity” briefly mentions this stewardess academy.

Perhaps it is interesting to tell a bit more about the web college: When I started there, it was still allowed to smoke in the canteen, but at some point they forbade that, and from then on we were always sitting outside, often in the cold, on the terrace of the building during lunch breaks, overlooking the impressive garden. Several students were chain-smokers, so they could not have lunch indoors any more. One of the students was an astrologer who had worked as a brothel manager before. He was doing the course because he was planning to create an astrology-based dating program. I do not know if he succeeded eventually. For a short period I assisted in the project as a programmer, and he invited me home for dinner, which consisted of paprika filled with meatloaf prepared by his twenty years younger girlfriend. A few other programmers were involved too, including one of our teachers. The astrologer insisted that the dating program allow matches between people with a twenty-year age gap, like he had with his fiancée. Whenever a match was found, the candidate would be notified instantly on one’s mobile telephone. This was futuristic at the time, in the early 2000s, when not nearly everyone had a mobile phone yet, and long before smart phones became common. He was ahead of his time, also having been one of the first sex telephone line operators in the 1980s.

Not all of the students were knowledgeable regarding informatics; this was revealed when the teacher instructed us to make a web site and bring it along on a compact disk so he could see it. “What?! Does a whole web site fit on a compact disk?!” remarked one web designer-to-be. This person was taking the course for the second time, and would not show up any more after the first few lessons. For clarity, the web sites we made were in the order of a few hundred kilobytes, while a compact disk could hold 700 megabytes, so several hundred of those sites. But the astrologer took file-size-blindness to a new level when he tried to share with us the full documentation of a certain corporate developer’s network by electronic mail; he really could not understand why that e-mail had failed to sent after he attached the complete set of compact disks totalling several gigabytes. For information, the upper limit of an e-mail attachment was in the order of a few megabytes at the time, so he had exceeded it by a factor of thousand. Attaching compact disks to an e-mail message would be a remarkable feat even today, if I am correct.

Later on in the course, one of the participants brought a Universal Serial Bus stick of 200 megabytes with him to show his work, instead of a compact disk; this was the first time I saw a U.S.B. stick. This person worked at a fish store and was making a web site for it. On that occasion he printed a page from his site, containing a recipe for plaice. Then he looked around where the printer was, but could not find it. The teacher informed him that the printer was located in the school’s office, where they were probably wondering what to do with the recipe. In the years after the course, I sometimes used the building of the web college as a target when training for a marathon or longer distance. It was 35 kilometres up and down there from my house, mostly along the canal.

Jacobsen: The “More tests, puzzles and games” link leads to “I.Q. Tests for the High Range” (Cooijmans, n.d.e). A page with one of the most quotable phrases in the high-range testing environment, “A megalomaniac’s Waterloo,” which I love dearly. Individuals with an interest in further explorations into the high-range testing world can explore the website and the rich resources from there. Actually, this leads to some short side questions if I may, please. Some comment on the old nature of many of the high-IQ society web domains and web pages within them. When I examined 84 of them formally, or more informally, this appears true. Many are defunct. Others are extant, but inactive. Others are merely directories or listings of individuals who qualify for the societies. Some have a modest level of activity. A few are decades old, active, and well-run. Yours, happily, qualify for the lattermost, Glia Society and Giga Society. For the domain and aesthetics of the Glia Society, or the entirety of the lifework for you, as presented online, why this particular design?

Cooijmans: Regarding web design, I am for accessibility and not bothering visitors with unneeded distractions or intrusions like pop-ups, side-bars, or frequent changes of the site that send people looking for things they could find blindly in the previous design version. Do notice that the text on the site is actually legible, and not illegibly tiny as “professional” web designers insist on. In the past I had advertisements appear on my web sites, but I removed them after it became compulsory to ask visitors permission to store the advertisement-related cookies on their electronic computers. I do not want to harass people with that.

In this respect I want to mention it is nowadays rare to get honest advertising on your web site. I have been contacted countless times by people who wanted to “advertise” on my sites, but invariably it concerned sneaky text links disguised as normal content, not recognizable as advertising, to deceive the search engines and make the advertiser’s web sites seem popular. This is unethical and spoils the Internet. They call this “search engine optimization”; one of the cesspools of modern-day “marketing”.

Jacobsen: Why keep this domain and aesthetic into 2021?

Cooijmans: Because of its extreme beauty and accessibility, and to avoid forcing visitors to waste time and attention by learning to navigate something new all the time. As we say here, “what you do not want done to you, do not do that to others” (this rhymes in Netherlandic). I avoid all those things that make me run away from other web sites.

Jacobsen: What have been the feedback on those aforementioned levels regarding it? I should add. In the first part of the interview, you stated:

First, I must say that it was not the aim to construct a digitally-based community. In 1997, I did not have an Internet connection, and all communication regarding and within the Glia Society was conducted via regular correspondence… Only in January 2001, I bought a modern computer and got Internet access, and that was the first time I used the Internet and electronic mail. Around midnight of the day on which I got Internet access, I had a web site online, and from that moment on, the Glia Society had an online existence (it had been advertised online by a few friends of mine in the years before already though). (Jacobsen, 2020).

So, the original intent changed into the online, where the intent was the non-digital community the whole time, as a reminder to newer readers to this Glia Society series of interviews.

Cooijmans: I do not understand what is meant with “those aforementioned levels” and with “it”. Also I do not remember saying anything about a non-digital community. I said “it was not the aim to construct a digitally-based community” in response to a question about the Glia Society being a digital community. But that does logically not equate to saying “the aim was to construct a non-digital community”. The feedback in the period before going online (if that is the question) was hugely positive. This is also logical, as membership in those days involved regular mail correspondence and paying for a paper journal sent by mail, and I imagine that negatively inclined people would not be willing to go through all that trouble just to be negative about the society. You could not join an I.Q. society on a whim then, as you can now with everything going via the Internet.

Jacobsen: We have talked about the journal Thoth before, a bit.[3] It is a digital publication available to members alone. “It guarantees absolute freedom of speech and has no editorial changes or censorship of any kind. Thoth is filled with members’ submissions, and occasionally contains material by others.” (Cooijmans, n.d.f) What makes “no editorial changes or censorship of any kind” a benefit to the Glia Society community? How active is the publication?

Cooijmans: “No editorial changes or censorship of any kind” is a benefit because it allows members (and possible non-members who submit copy) to express their ideas without interference. Anyone who has ever had an incompetent or corrupt editor destroy one’s work will recognize the value of that. The publication is quite active in some periods, and less active in others. It varies, and with the advent of Internet fora, the importance of a journal has gone down. It is no longer the only communication medium of the society.

Jacobsen: The policy section of the public website states:

Thoth is meant to be a verbatim, uncensored, unedited publication forum for Glia Society members’ materials of almost any kind, and as such offers an almost unique and golden opportunity to who understand the value of such. So, actually to very few.

Copy for Thoth is published without alterations and as close as possible to what the author wrote or created (insofar as electronic word processing allows this; some formatting changes are inevitable). Notice that this means that one’s possible errors too remain uncorrected; to write correctly is the author’s task. Please check copy for errors repeatedly and meticulously before submission. Do not just rely on a software spelling checker.

Notice that the previous paragraph implies one needs to put one’s name and the possible title of one’s submission in one’s copy. Leaving these out implies that the copy is anonymous and/or has no title. For clarity; this means that the name and title must be in the submission itself, not just in an accompanying note. The previous sentence follows from the fact that copy is not altered, implying that the author’s name and title are not added if one does not put them in oneself.

It is recommended to put one’s address in one’s copy so that readers can respond directly to the author if they wish. Remarks to the Administrator about copy are not passed on to the author. (Ibid.)

With absolute freedom of speech, have there been any issues internal to the Glia Society community or Thoth itself?

Cooijmans: The main issue I remember is the publication, in instalments, of a novel by a member. A number of other members objected to its contents, which they found too violent and explicit. There was discussion on it on the electronic mail forum of the society, but no official measures were taken. The novel’s author was not online oneself, which made discussing the topic difficult. Arguments were, “I can not show the journal to my family with this content in it”, which was countered by “but the journal is members-only so you are not supposed to show it to your family anyway”.

Jacobsen: Have there been any significantly heated exchanges in such fora based on absolute freedom of speech?

Cooijmans: The one I just mentioned, about the novel.

Jacobsen: What is the general impression from the more active members of Thoth, in terms of submissions/publications in it, of the quality of the submissions if any feedback at that level?

Cooijmans: There are two types of submissions: From ambitious members who send a lot of material to promote their work and themselves, and from members who send copy to contribute toward a high-quality publication. Both are welcome and fit the goals of an I.Q. society.

Jacobsen: To the aforementioned “very few” from the block quote, what is the “value” of the “golden opportunity”? (Ibid.)

Cooijmans: The value is in the rare chance to publish one’s work uncensored and verbatim.

Jacobsen: What are the major themes of the publications? What is the most common type of submission, e.g., articles, interviews, etc.?

Cooijmans: Articles are the most common type of submission I think. Other types are poems, short stories, photos, things like that. I have no idea how to describe the major themes of the publications, I do not think in themes myself, in fact I have sometimes turned down participation in activities with prescribed themes. It can be said that the articles and other submissions in Thoth often reveal a way of looking at or experiencing the world that is typical of highly intelligent persons.

Jacobsen: Has the policy of Thoth ever changed?

Cooijmans: No.

Jacobsen: The copy section of the public website states:

Copy can be submitted at any time and will appear in the next issue. Please try to get it right at once and not send corrections or corrected versions to already submitted copy. Thoth appears whenever a minimum amount of copy is available. Obviously, there is no “deadline”; the time to send copy is when that copy is ready.

The best file formats for copy are .txt, .rtf, .odt, and .doc. Send the copy in any one of those formats; there is absolutely no need send the copy in more than one of those formats simultaneously. Do not send copy as .pdf; that is a read-only format and can not be edited or inserted into another document without corruption of white space and layout.

To avoid loss of quality, possible images should best be (also) sent separately, for instance as attachments, rather than inserted into a word processor document. Displaying text in image form is extremely unwise as it increases file size in the order of a hundredfold.

Be sparing with layout features like italic and bold, and especially sparing with underlined, font colours, font size changes, font changes and so on. Keep in mind that underlined nowadays means “this is a hyper reference”, and dozens of readers will click on it only to discover it is not. Be informed that the excessive use of layout features is the mark of bad authors.

To obtain an impression of how copy looks, one may consult this Thoth copy template.

It is possible to submit copy even if one is not a member but has material one thinks is of interest to the Glia Society members. Copy should be sent to the Administrator; indicate in an accompanying note that the submitted material is copy, to avoid confusion between personal correspondence and copy. (Ibid.)

What has been the frequency of Thoth issues per year? How many per year? How much does this rate vary? What is the range?

Cooijmans: In the first few years it was eight times per year, then it went down to six and remained at that for over two decades. About a year ago I reduced it to “whenever there is copy”, but in practice it has mostly appeared every two months still. The size of an issue has gone down a few years ago, when I stopped filling it up with my own material when there was little copy. The size now reflects how much copy there is.

Jacobsen: Have there been any particularly annoying moments of corrected versions sent an inordinate amount of times to you? In that, there were a large number of corrected versions sent to you. Is it a fair time to recount these potential historical moments?

Cooijmans: I remember one person who had a habit of sending corrected versions to almost everything said person submitted. This was annoying because I tend to work ahead in producing the journal, so every correction caused unneeded (“double”) work. A typical example of a situation where a lazy person, who postpones his work until the last moment, has an advantage over a conscientious person who wants to get things done.

Jacobsen: Have many parts of the copy section have been altered in the history of Thoth description, based on adaptations and difficulties faced in the midst of production of it?

Cooijmans: Eight parts, it seems. The matter is always, how explicit and emphatic do you have to phrase something to get through to people who are persistently not “getting” it?

Jacobsen: What textual circumstances justify the use of italics and bold to you?

Cooijmans: In technical texts, when there are requirements or conventions to italicize or embolden things et cetera, it is justified to do so, and the best (or easiest) way to reproduce this in a journal is probably in image form, or in a tag-based markup language like H.T.M.L. or X.M.L. But in more informal prose, articles, columns and so on, when one’s writing has to be included in a publication edited by another person, it is plain antisocial to make heavy use of text layout features. Let me explain, for the sake of readers who have not experienced this hell first-hand: A submission that includes such layout as bold, italic, font changes and more tends to come in the form of a word processor document. The editor has to insert (or paste) this into the target document. Almost invariably, the layout is corrupted in this process, especially if the author’s and editor’s word processors are not of the exact same brand and version (which they never are, trust me; everyone’s computer system is different from everyone else’s!)

Repairing this corrupted version is usually so laborious, if possible at all, that it is more convenient to reduce the submission to plain text and redo the layout from scratch. Depending on the submission’s length and the use of layout, this is a tedious task because one has to scan with eagle eyes over the original and reproduce every layout feature one sees, with the risk of overlooking something. And then imagine the joy when the author sends a corrected version after one has already gone through this mountain of labour…

That is why it is generally best to submit copy as plain text. Unfortunately, many do not know these days what “plain text” is. They think that a text in a word processor document can be plain text, but this is not so. It contains hidden layout codes. Plain text is the output of text editors like Notepad.

Jacobsen: What contexts in submissions would justify unusual font colours, font sizes, font changes, font types, and so on?

Cooijmans: Almost the same answer as the previous question, except that these features are even much worse to deal with. For instance, most people do not realize that when they specify a certain font family, readers who do not happen to have that font installed on their system will see the text in a replacement font and it will look different. And this is the rule rather than the exception because, again, everyone’s computer system is different from everyone else’s. There are as good as no fonts that can be relied upon to be present on a random other person’s computer.

And yes, you can include a font in the eventual portable document format publication (popularly known as “P.D.F.”) with the “archive” option, but that increases file size. Is an individual copy submitter so important that you want to do that?

Jacobsen: What are the most common font colours, font sizes, font changes, and font types?

Cooijmans: In principal I use the font Verdana in Thoth, and make the size so that the number of characters on a line, excluding spaces, does not exceed 70. Legibility is about the number of characters on a line, not about actual font size. You have to count them to get it right; otherwise the inexperienced amateur editor will choose a childishly big font, while the graphically inclined visual artist will gravitate toward the illegibly tiny (such people never actually read what they publish, they only look at the “big picture” and care not about the poor eyes of the readers).

The colour is black, except for warnings, which are strong red, or #CC0000 in hexadecimal code; incidentally, this was also the colour of the bow tie of the pianist who used to play in the hall of the institute where I took that web design course. On Saturdays, the day of my course, they were always showing around potential students and their parents, and a pianist was sitting there playing all day on a grand piano to create an attractive atmosphere to reel in new customers. Not infrequently, some of my fellow students expressed their secret desire to slowly strangulate aforesaid musician. The piano did not bother me much though, being used to the cacophony of a music conservatory, where I sometimes sat practising in a study room with the noise of trombones, tubas, trumpets, and sopranos coming from neighbouring rooms so that is was hard to tell if my guitar made any sound at all. When all rooms were occupied, guitarists would sometimes practise in corridors or on the halfway-plateaus of staircases in between floors.

In Christmas time, a Christmas tree was placed in the hall of the web college, with a device attached to it that played pacifying Christmas melodies incessantly. This would not be turned off when the pianist came; he just had to hammer the keys a bit harder, and some students could then be observed making movements as if wringing a wet towel. The lessons lasted all day on Saturday, and many students came from remote parts of the country, some having to travel over 200 kilometres. This had to do with the fairly aggressive marketing by the (locally) somewhat notorious family who ran the institute. Incidentally, a course there would cost a bit over 4000 euros, but if you paid within two weeks you got a discount of almost 1000 euros, and under certain conditions you could take a second course for free.

Ideally, font family never changes. If someone submits copy with some marked and apparently intended layout, I try to copy or reproduce that, which is mostly more work than starting from plain text and applying the default Thoth layout.

While writing the above I realized that the following warning is in place: The default Thoth layout referred to here is applied after reducing a submission to plain text, as explained before. So, there is no point in trying to apply or imitate this default layout oneself in one’s submission; that self-applied layout will be removed anyway.

Jacobsen: Why are “the excessive use of layout features… the mark of bad authors”? (Ibid.)

Cooijmans: If you are an author of text, your task is to express yourself in words, in language, verbally. Layout is non-verbal, it is visual expression. If you find yourself needing things like italic, bold, colours, and font changes, that means you are failing to express yourself in words; that is, you are failing as an author of text. To overcome this, you should force yourself to avoid all layout and write purely in language, exerting yourself to express what you want to say in words. A good method is to use a text editor instead of a word processor; advanced text editors have spell checking, incidentally, so that is feasible. I always write in a text editor (Notepad++), never in an word processor. The advice contained in this paragraph will help more than one writer toward a Nobel prize in literature. (Editor, italicize that last sentence please.)

Jacobsen: If I may ask, or if the information may be divulged, what has been the single most read/viewed article in the history of Thoth? What was its content, theme? Who was its author? What seems like the reason for the responsiveness to the publication?

Cooijmans: We have not done a formal counting, but the novel “Die Wohnungenparkdämmerung” by Barney Vincelette springs to mind. A highly idiosyncratic tale of culture clash, and controversial because of the violence occurring in it.

Jacobsen: On the frequent errors of copy, you state:

Although the above instructions should suffice, for extra redundancy here is a list of typical errors in submitting copy to make absolutely certain that the reader understands what is meant:

Submitting copy in .pdf format;

Leaving out the title of the piece;

Leaving out the author name;

Leaving out contact information (if applicable);

Withholding (not sending) copy that is ready, thinking that copy can only be submitted shortly before a “deadline”;

Sending corrections or corrected versions to already submitted copy;

Using excessive layout features like bold, italic, font colours, font size changes and so on;

Sending copy in several file formats simultaneously;

Submitting copy inside a message that also contains (non-copy) correspondence without very meticulously distinguishing the copy from the correspondence. (Ibid.)

What are the infrequent errors of copy?

Cooijmans: A few infrequent errors: Sending “original” essays that have really been constructed by copying and pasting from existing online news articles; sending esoteric “decodings” of hidden patterns in certain texts, works of art, or historical events; imitating the default layout of Thoth in one’s submission. The last is superfluous because I reduce the submission to plain text anyway and then apply the default layout. I know I already stated that a few answers ago, but these layout matters in word processing are so poorly understood that it is warranted to repeat this once more here, just for extra redundancy.

Jacobsen: What are frequent errors of copy, correspondence clarification, and future copy? Where you see an error in the copy, it’s pointed out by a Glia Society member or the Administrator. Yet, future submissions continue to contain the same kind of copy error by the same author.

Cooijmans: The repeated sending of corrected versions to already submitted copy is an example of that.

Jacobsen: The disclaimer states, “Everything published in Thoth is for the exclusive responsibility of the author. If you have comments on things you read in Thoth, respond to the author or in Thoth.” Are there any further disclaimers or caveats to the current disclaimer needing stating here – minutiae or common misunderstandings beyond the general statement?

Cooijmans: Not really, but it could be noted here that responding in Thoth to another’s article has become a bit old-fashioned, now that things can be discussed easier and quicker on Internet-based fora.

References

Cooijmans, P. (2016, January 25). Glia Society animated presentation. Retrieved from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgqNoHcgQzc&feature=youtu.be.

Cooijmans, P. (n.d.c). Glia Society Crossword. Retrieved from https://gliasociety.org/games/cross.html.

Cooijmans, P. (2003). Glia Society Memory Game. Retrieved from https://gliasociety.org/games/memory.html.

Cooijmans, P. (n.d.b). Glia Society mind games. Retrieved from https://gliasociety.org/games.html.

Cooijmans, P. (n.d.d). Glia Society Mastermind. Retrieved from https://gliasociety.org/games/mastermind.html.

Cooijmans, P. (n.d.e). I.Q. Tests for the High Range. Retrieved from https://iq-tests-for-the-high-range.com.

Jacobsen, S.D. (2020, September 1). Conversation with Paul Cooijmans on Introduction to the Glia Society: Administrator, Glia Society (1). Retrieved from http://www.in-sightjournal.com/cooijmans-1.

The Glia Society. (n.d.a). The Glia Society: Animated presentation. Retrieved from https://gliasociety.org/aboutmusic.html.

Cooijmans, P. (n.d.f). The Glia Society: The journal “Thoth”. Retrieved from https://gliasociety.org/thoth.html.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Administrator, Giga Society; Administrator, Glia Society.

[2] Individual Publication Date: March 22, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/cooijmans-4; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

[3] “The Glia Society: The journal “Thoth”” states:

Thoth is named after the Egyptian moon god, who weighed the hearts of the deceased to determine if they would be admitted to the hereafter or, if the examination was failed, torn apart by a monster. Thoth is also the name used by the future Grail Society member.

Cooijmans (n.d.f).

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Gulalai Ismail on Father’s Rights Activism in Pakistan, Humanism, and the International Humanist and Ethical Union/Humanists International: Co-Founder, Aware Girls (1)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/03/22

Abstract

Gulalai Ismail is a Co-Founder of Aware Girls. She has been awarded the Democracy Award from the National Endowment for Democracy, the Anna Politkovskaya Award, and recognized as one of the 100 Leading Global Thinkers of 2013 by Foreign Policy. She discusses: rights activism and her father; Humanism; and the International Humanist and Ethical Union/Humanists International.

Keywords: Aware Girls, blasphemy, Convention on the Elimination of all Forms of Discrimination Against Women, Convention of the Rights of the Child, Gulalai Ismail, Humanism, Islam, Pakistan, Sunni, Wahhabi, Zia-ul-Haq.

Conversation with Gulalai Ismail on Father’s Rights Activism in Pakistan, Humanism, and the International Humanist and Ethical Union/Humanists International: Co-Founder, Aware Girls (1)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

*Interview conducted April 24, 2020.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: So, let’s start from very early age, even before, your father was – and is – a human rights activist well-known in Pakistan. What kinds of rights activism was he involved in while growing up and while you were also observing him as a youngster?

Gulalai Ismail[1],[2]: As a child, I saw my father as a human rights activist. He was working on the issues of democracy, even before I was born. He was involved in resistance against the military dictatorship of Zia-ul-Haq in Pakistan.

He is in political history as one of the darkest military dictatorships of Pakistan. My father worked for democracy, even during the military dictatorship there. He was put in prison many times.

Growing up, I saw him working on economic inequality and the economic empowerment of women. He was running a program to economically empower women through small loans. It was a fabulous program. You could see how it was helping women in the rural areas to run their own businesses and become economically empowered.

He was working against terrorism and violent religious extremism. He was very vocal against extremism. I was very young, maybe 10-years-old. We had to leave our village. He was attacked for his beliefs, his ideas, and issues related to blasphemy and religious extremism.

Because of that situation, my father decided to move to Peshawar. He didn’t want us to live in an environment where there are risks to life and livelihood based on your opinion. He moved to Peshawar and continued to work for democracy and human rights.

A lot of his work was around peacebuilding and strengthening democracy and local governments. He worked on issues of domestic abuse. He worked on issues of child marriages. He worked on a range of issues.

I remember when he was working on corporal punishment. He was doing research. My father used to run an NGO for children’s rights. It was working on child rights and doing research on corporal punishment.

Right as my father was working on it, my brother was badly beaten in his school. It was all over the news. My father made sure to not let this go; a child should not get beaten in school.

As a child, I viewed my father resisting oppression, resisting against class oppression. If his children were badly treated, then he was not simply letting this go away. He was making the world better for women, children, and other people.

He was vocal on the state’s policies regarding extremism and jihad. It was a time after 9/11. Now, Jihad is known as terrorism around the whole world. Back then, it was not viewed as terrorism as the whole world.

When it happened in Afghanistan, it was in the 1990s when the Taliban were ruling Afghanistan. Pakistan as a state had been supporting the Taliban and the jihadis. My father used to speak out against this saying the jihadism is terrorism. He was given a blasphemy case.

This was the most difficult time for us. Our father was booked for blasphemy. He was put in prison. He got released on bail later. He fought the case for seven years. After 9/11, of course, many things changed in the world. The Taliban were no longer seen as religious leaders, but as terrorist leaders.

My father’s case was dropped as a result. He was released. But it continues. One thing he taught us. You have to speak up for your rights. If you do not get your rights, in communities like this, you have to fight hard and speak for your rights. I was living in this kind of household.

My father was engaged in political movements, in civil society movements. He was working against class inequalities. He was working against religious extremism and for human rights. I was a child grown in an environment of human rights.

Our childhood story books were about equality. They were about rights. I read the Convention of the Rights of the Child when I was 11 years old or 12-years-old. I learned the CEDAW, the Convention on the Elimination of all Forms of Discrimination Against Women, from a very young age. My father taught the human rights perspective. This helped a lot in what I am doing today.

Jacobsen: Was the word “humanism” floating around at all?

Ismail: The word “humanist” has been known in different connotations in Pakistan. My father introduced me to the word “humanist.” I do not know when this word was floating in Pakistan. It was not an era of social media. It was not a tech-savvy time.

My father introduced me in 2005. I attended a human rights leadership course organized by an organization for women and girls. This course helped me unlearn so many things and boxes; I had learned or internalized growing up in my community.

This helped me unlearn stereotypes and vices. It was an amazing human rights course. Also, the course gave the questioning of everything, even questioning religion, questioning status quo, questioning institutions. I engaged in a lot of debates on religion with my father.

He was like, ‘It is time to introduce Humanism.’ He introduced me to the website. Now, it is known as Humanists International. Before, it was known as the International Humanist and Ethical Union or IHEU. He introduced me to the website of IHEU.

That’s when I was introduced to Humanism. Also, I became a member of the organization. I was running an organization called Aware Girls. We became a part of IHEU. That’s how I became introduced to the word Humanism.

In online spaces, the word may have been floating. These are very difficult times in Pakistan. These are the times when the religious extremism was increasingly growing in Pakistan. It was a time when 9/11 happened.

It was a time when the militant organizations were organizations themselves in Pakistan and organized themselves. It is not simply extremist organizations advanced narratives. Our state policy has been actively promoting religious intolerance and religious parties.

The Taliban were organizing, targeting, and killing people. By 2007, the Taliban had already occupied parts of Pakistan. Their suicide attacks already began in Pakistan. By 2007, our city was almost facing daily suicide attacks. Targeted killings were happening. Abductions were happening.

It was really a non-peaceful decade in our region. It was not an easy time to be there, to be openly a humanist or openly a non-religious person. Because if you’re openly a humanist, you could easily have been killed.

Even now, if you look at the statistics of Pakistan, you cannot come out as a non-religious person in Pakistan. You will be accused of blasphemy. You can be killed in mob violence. Many people have lost their lives in mob violence. The blasphemy laws in Pakistan are very regressive laws.

They are used against people who are critical of religion or who do not fit into the box of Wahhabi Islam, Wahhabi Sunni Islam. Sometimes, even to settle some scores, the law is used there. Then it was not easy to be a humanist and talk about it. It has never been easy.

There weren’t any humanist networks. It was much later when social media became very common. People started using Facebook and social media. Different social media groups were formed. We started connecting with other humanists and other non-religious people.

A few years ago, the person was behind – you know the story Scott – who was protesting and then was later arrested. The networks were disrupted later as well.

Jacobsen: When people think about the term atheist or agnostic, they more readily assume: if something negative is happening, then it is more serious. When people hear the term humanist and something negative happening to a humanist, my sense is there is less urgency around it.

Even though, there can be as much or more discrimination against them. You’re perfectly well-aware of this on a personal level. Why is that?

Ismail: In Pakistan, it doesn’t matter if you identify agnostic, atheist, or humanist. It doesn’t matter. You will face similar kinds of hostility. Mashal Khan who was killed in mob violence in university. He was killed three years ago. This young student, his Facebook profile is online to this day saying, “Humanist.”

He was accused of blasphemy. He was killed in mob violence by his own class fellows, by his own university fellows, brutally. It doesn’t matter as long as the box is non-religious, and the box is not Wahhabi Sunni Muslim. Then you are in danger in Pakistan.

Even if you are from a minority sect of Muslim, your life will be in danger. Ahmadi community in Pakistan recognize themselves as Muslim. The constitution of Pakistan states the Ahmadi sect is non-Muslim. It forbids them from saying that they are Muslims.

It forbids them from reading the Quran. They can be charged with blasphemy. There have been many riots in Pakistan against the Ahmadi community where the houses were burned, the Ahmadis were killed.

There were labels on shops in some parts of Pakistan saying, “Anyone, but Ahmadis and dogs, can enter here.” There is a huge persecution of Ahmadi Muslim communities in Pakistan. There are terrorist organizations, which can be banned terrorist organizations.

Nonetheless, they keep declaring the minority Muslim sect, Shia Islam, as non-Muslims. They keep saying, “They are non-Muslims. Therefore, they are apostates. Since they are apostates, they can be killed.” If you are in Pakistan in this box of Wahhabi Sunni Muslims, you are okay.

If any other box, then you are in trouble. If you are in any box that is non-religious, whether humanist, atheist, or agnostic, you will be in a difficult situation in Pakistan. In Pakistan, people are not aware of “humanism” as a term.

They will believe this is someone who believes in human values, human wellbeing, and for the betterment of humanity. They do not necessarily understand the meaning of humanist. If I say, “I am a humanist.” There will be very few people who would understand what the word “humanist” means, actually.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Co-Founder, Aware Girls.

[2] Individual Publication Date: March 22, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/gulalai-ismail-1; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Saba Ismail on Family History in Pakistan, Gulalai Ismail, and Aware Girls: Co-Founder, Aware Girls (1)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/03/22

Abstract

Saba Ismail is a Co-Founder of Aware Girls. At the age of 15, she co-founded Aware Girls for the empowerment of young women in leadership capacities and to advance social change. She completed a Masters in Biotechnology from COMSATS University Abbot Asad and the Hurford Youth Fellowship with the National Endowment for Democracy. She has worked as Youth Ambassador for Asia Pacific Youth Network (APYN: 2012-2013), the Steering Committee of UNOY, and is an alumnus of the International Visitors Leadership Program in the United States. Ismail was recognized by Foreign Policy as one of the 100 Leader Global Thinkers in 2013. She is the recipient of the Chirac Prize for Conflict Prevention. She discusses: human rights and the family in Pakistan; and Gulalai Ismail and Aware Girls.

Keywords: Aware Girls, Convention on the Rights of the Child, girls’ rights, Gulalai Ismail, middle-class, Pakistan, Saba Ismail, The Convention on the Elimination of all Forms of Discrimination Against Women, Universal Declaration of Human Rights, women’s rights.

Conversation with Saba Ismail on Family History in Pakistan, Gulalai Ismail, and Aware Girls: Co-Founder, Aware Girls (1)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

*Interview conducted July 2, 2020.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: You come from Pakistan. You have a family history there. What is the family history there? What are some other contexts for your family, even farther back than your father for Pakistan and for human rights?

Saba Ismail[1],[2]: Gulalai and I come from a middle-class family. Our grandfather was an artisan. My father became a professor. He and my mother became activists. My mother is a housewife. We were brought up by our parents. We were born in a rural village in the Northwest of Pakistan. When I was 7-years-old, we had to leave the village to live.

My father was accused of liberalism and secularism. With his political ideologies, we had to leave our village. We moved to Peshawar. Since I remember, I have never been told or taught that I was different than my brothers.

My parents ensured equal opportunities with our brothers. We grew up in an environment where gender equality was not only preached. It was practiced, too. For example, as kids, in the area where we grew up, men don’t do the housework and the chores.

However, in our house, my brothers would clean the bathroom or elsewhere. Even for my cousins and other extended family members, it was a different situation. As we were growing up, our childhood stories were not about Cinderella or a prince coming to save the princess.

Our childhood stories were about the CEDAW (The Convention on the Elimination of all Forms of Discrimination Against Women), the UDHR or the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and the Convention on the Rights of the Child, and the Constitution of Pakistan.

Generally, in Pakistan, we don’t read about the Constitution in schools or in academia, or about general strikes, basically. There is nothing like this being taught in schools. At our home, our father taught basic human rights. My father used to have workshops with us.

We learned and were introduced to these concepts, whether the concept of secularism, Humanism, or human rights. Our father would give us a paragraph of a convention to read. We had to read a point and understand it, and interpret it to the rest of our siblings.

So, when people do training in the NGO sector, there are group activities and team-building activities. Our father used to do all of these growing up. While growing up, every day was learning and unlearning.

In our schools, we were taught people who were not Muslims had to be beheaded. It is the duty of Muslims to preach the religion. We were taught to hate people who are from other religious backgrounds.

We were taught a Muslim should not share a cup or anything, e.g., a utensil, with a non-Muslim. Muslims should not shake hands with non-Muslims because non-Muslims are dirty. We were introduced to these concepts in academia, in the schooling system, and in our society, generally.

At home, we were taught everyone is equal. Everyone has rights. You cannot hate someone based on their religious identity. It was difficult for a child to learn a completely different set of values at home; a completely different set of things taught than things taught in society, in school, and in the media.

I remember when I was young. We always had hard print newspapers at home. I remember reading descriptions for the government jobs, a sweeper job, for example.

They would want a non-Muslim. It was a requirement. If someone has to apply for a sweeper position, their religion should not be Muslim. This was the type of thing. These were the kinds of things that we were learning from media.

When they advertised these advertisements for jobs in the newspaper, when you read it, and integrate it, and then get a completely different set of things at home, in the public space, you had to cover up and behave publicly.

Boys would go out in public. But we were not allowed, not by family, but the society. Our family was worried about men dominating society. We lived in completely different worlds at one time.

Because our father knew if he introduced us to these concepts at a young age, only then would we become different human beings. Then these concepts, without them, we wouldn’t be who we are today.

Both of our parents, our mother is a housewife. She has been to school, but only until 3rd or 4th grade. She ended up not continuing her education because there was no girls’ school in her area. Her father didn’t allow girls to go to another village for education.

My mother ended up not going to school and not getting an education. When we were being brought up, like both of our parents gave support, our father had the ideological side, the mind. Our mother was the one more implementing the ideas of the children.

Her focus was on education and learning all these different things from our father. My mother would do the housework at all hours, so we would have enough time on our hands and could do all these different things.

They invested their time. They invested their energy in bringing up all of their children. Also, what our father did differently, in the patriarchal and male dominant society, he would take Gulalai and I to different programs.

He used to work in collaboration with different NGOs, INGOs, etc. We used to go to the events that were organized by our father’s organization and participate in them. We were, actually, exposed to and had the opportunity to meet women who were leading an NGO and were in positions of power.

Also, he showed us. Women don’t have to do what society is telling them. The roles and responsibilities of society. It was, ‘We can be like them.’ He showed us, role models, from a young age.

For us, growing up, it was different compared to other girls and women. Also, we saw that our father also stood up for girls’ education within our family. Our own cousins were not allowed to go to school or to go to college to continue their studies.

What our father did, he would talk to the parents. He would say, “I am a parent. They can come to our house. They can stay for a few days.” Sometimes, he would not tell them about being a professor. He would teach them.

They would spend some time with us and help with household things, or spend time with our cousins. It was excused to let these girls have months, sometimes, at our house. My father would teach them everything.

He would enroll our cousins in colleges or schools. Sometimes, in Pakistan, people can give private exams. If they don’t have to go to school or college to study classes, they study at home and only give the exams and pass.

We saw our parents. If other girls from our family were not allowed to go to schools or colleges, then they became able to develop ideas. They did the best that they could do in their capacity to make sure some girls can have degrees.

I’ve never seen someone standing up for other girls in a way trying to create opportunities for other girls as well in our family. This was the kind of childhood and family for us. As I said earlier, it was not only about teaching us concepts, but showing us.

They showed us. You can stand up for someone’s education and be creative. You can help other women doing this other work. You can be like that. This was early childhood. We grew up and had our own ideologies. Our father drove and mentored us, in our work.

Jacobsen: Your name should be as prominent as Gulalai, but is not as prominent as Gulalai. In light of the fact, you co-founded Aware Girls with her. Which is interesting, when people think of prodigies, they think of some mathematical or scientific pursuit.

But I don’t see prodigy applied to morals or rights-based prodigies as much. Gulalai, your sister, and you seem to me like former moral prodigies. Because you co-founded Aware Girls as adolescents.

In a country, Pakistan, rated among the worst in the world for the status of women and girls, so, what was the driver in the context of all this upbringing and experience with women leaders, and so on, for founding Aware Girls? What was the inspiration there?

Ismail: The inspiration was one of our cousins who dropped out of school one day. She was told that she was not allowed anymore. One day, she was told, “Okay, you can’t go to school. Because you’re getting married to a man who was 15 years an elder to her.”

We were too young. I was 13. Gulalai was 12 at that time. We couldn’t do anything. We were already teenagers. We didn’t understand the contexts of a lot of these. We wanted to help. But we couldn’t at that time.

We were like, “What can we do so other girls do not have to go through this?” We have seen dreams shattered. When our cousin used to come to our house, she used to wear pants and shirts of our brothers and act as a pilot.

You see someone so closely. They’re desperate and passionate about something. Then their dreams were gotten destroyed because of their gender. They have to get married because girls are a burden to their parents, and at a young age as well.

We knew it was wrong. But we didn’t know how to fix it, at that time. We had to do something. That was the inspiration, which led to the foundation of Aware Girls. Now, you mentioned Gulalai is more prominent.

One of the reasons I tell people. It does come across. It is not a competition among sisters. We are best working together as a team. She has certain skills. When she’s passionate, she is seen as a spokesperson who can articulate things.

My set of skills comes at a different level. I’m better at the managerial level, managing finances and office management. I am not saying Gulalai is not organized. I am saying I am more organized and structured at the organizational level.

People with different personalities. We have one sister who is a better storyteller. Gulalai is more like a better storyteller. This is the best fit for us. It worked well in Pakistan. Like I said, I took on certain roles and responsibilities, which I liked.

It was never a competition. Who is more prominent or well-known? It wasn’t there. When Gulalai gets an award, it’s my award. When Gulalai gets recognition, it’s my recognition. We were never separate individuals in that way. My siblings would all tease me. Saying, “You’re her secretary.”

When we were too young, my siblings would say, “How much is your salary because you always take her side, never say anything against her?” We were siblings. We used to fight. Gulalai used to always be on my side. I used to always be on her side.

We are one year apart. We were like twins. We went to the same school. We went to the same university. It happened almost at the same place. Our exposure and travel together to different countries. We were and are a good team; we are good together.

We complement each other so much. Also, we understand each other. We are the closest siblings. This is my answer to this person. It is more important what the organization, Aware Girls, is doing. What work are we doing? Who will it impact?

Rather than focusing on, “Who is the speaker?” People have different skill-sets. Gulalai is good at managing social media and public speaking, and saying opinions on different things. This is the good thing about us. Each has a skill set.

We become strong. It was good for the institution, for the organization. It was one thing. Everything we have achieved; we have achieved together. As I said, she has a different skill-set. I have a different skill-set.

I am working from here. Even with Covid-19, people working remotely. In the US, I used to work with Gulalai remotely. That’s it. That’s the inspiration that we got from our own family, our own cousins.

These are the things that we have done together. We co-founded the organization. We have been through thick and thin together. We had to move places. It all started years ago. We were all being harassed and persecuted, had to relocate ourselves, relocate our office, and so on.

We have been doing it. The impact that we had was really important for us.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Co-Founder, Aware Girls.

[2] Individual Publication Date: March 22, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/saba-ismail-1; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Donald Wayne Stoner on Family, Life, Love, and Reality: Member, Epimetheus Society

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/03/22

Abstract

Donald Wayne Stoner is an Author, a Physicist, and a Software Engineer. He is a Member of the Epimetheus Society and One-in-a-Thousand Society. He discusses: growing up; family legacy; the rest of the family; experience with peers and schoolmates; professional certifications, qualifications, and trainings; some work experiences; job path; important aspects of the idea of the gifted and geniuses; myths that pervade the cultures of the world; treatment of geniuses; the greatest geniuses in history; purpose of intelligence tests; high intelligence; some of the tests taken and scores earned; the range of the scores; a genius from a profoundly intelligent person; the God concept; science; ethical philosophy; social philosophy; economic philosophy; political philosophy; metaphysics; worldview-encompassing philosophical system; the mystery and transience of life; meaning in life; meaning; an afterlife; and love.

Keywords: afterlife, Biblical Christian, Donald Wayne Stoner, Epimetheus Society, love, One-in-a-Thousand Society, physics, reality.

Conversation with Donald Wayne Stoner on Family, Life, Love, and Reality: Member, Epimetheus Society

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: When you were growing up, what were some of the prominent family stories being told over time?

Donald Wayne Stoner[1],[2]*: How detailed a response would you like? There have been quite a few books written by and about my ancestors. My grandfather’s book of family stories is here:

http://dstoner.net/Science_Speaks/oneman.html

For a very brief outline of what part of my family has been up to:

My Dad was a Caltech Mechanical Engineer who never stopped adding to his education. Our house was a playground of books and odd equipment. My Mom was a school teacher who took a crash course in physics and electronics during WWII, in order to get a good summer job.

They met at Oak Ridge, TN, while they were both working on the Manhattan project:

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Stoner-640

My Paternal Grandfather was a Mathematics and Astronomy Professor, inventor, and author:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Stoner

His father, “C.C.” was a Civil War soldier, then a Judge, then served on the Kansas assembly. More:

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Stoner-635

The “Stoner” line carried the surname “Steiner” before we emigrated from Switzerland to the Colony of Pennsylvania, probably in 1738. The fellow who made the move was Johannes John Steiner (in local records, there is a double “n” in “Johannes”). He lived from 1673 to 1758. The Swiss records:

https://archive.org/stream/listswissemigrant01fausrich/listswissemigrant01fausrich_djvu.txt

use a single “n” in “Johanes.” The intent of the surname-change was, probably, so we would blend in better. That worked until about 1968 when the meaning of “Stoner” changed.

We were descended from Ashkenazim Jews (Ashkenazim being Yiddish for “German), who have family records dating back to the early 1400s. For the details, work back from here:

https://www.geni.com/people/Peter-Stoner/6000000034847136199

C.C.’s wife was the daughter of a well-known evangelist, Peter Winebrenner:

https://www-personal.umich.edu/~bobwolfe/gen/pn/p8667.htm

Who was the nephew of the preacher John Winebrenner, whose name many churches still bear:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Winebrenner

Jacobsen: I presume this family legacy provided a sense of an extended self.

Stoner: Indeed it did. Of course, I’m focusing on the highlights. It wasn’t all perfect. For example, C.C.  short for “Christian Cowen,” Cowen being his middle name, and his mother’s maiden name), didn’t have much good to say about his parents.

Jacobsen: What about the rest of the family?

Stoner: I’ve mentioned some examples: Engineer, teacher, technician, scientist, inventor, author, soldier, judge, politician, evangelist, and preacher. Add to that: consultant, programmer, farmer, jeweler, lawyer, contractor, homesteader, pitch scraper, artist, musician, and you have a start at it. Most of them came to the eastern “U.S.” from various parts of Europe. Most worked their way west by wagons or trains.

If you let me get started, I’ll probably overload you with my own stories. For example, at least presently, all of my children and grandchildren have Cherokee mitochondria (which is always completely from the mother’s side).

Jacobsen: How was the experience with peers and schoolmates as a child and an adolescent?

Stoner: Not very pleasant, at least in grade school; but I won’t waste any time complaining about that. Occasionally I had an outstanding teacher, and that made a great deal of difference. My third grade teacher suggested that my Mom teach me algebra at home. My Mom did that for a while, then switched to getting me books and materials for studying electronics. My Grandfather gave me a book on how to build simple calculating devices and computers. A 10th grade math teacher took the class to study a now-antique drum-memory computer at the local community college. I wrote a binary program that ran on it, and was immediately hooked. A 12th grade physics teacher started an after-school physics club and taught us some relativity and quantum mechanics. He also entered some of us in a state-wide (California) physics competition for which I received very little recognition outside of my physics class. At graduation, when various student’s names and accomplishments were listed, the last announcement was, “and one of these students placed fifth in a state-wide physics competition.” I turned to my “assigned walking partner” (I didn’t know enough girls to line one up for myself) and told her “that was me.” I doubt she believed me. The hard-core nerds thought I was cool, but I wasn’t usually respected by many of the other students.

College was better. The students who had made trouble were all gone. I majored in physics (and also math and chemistry during the first few semesters). I also took every computer class I could squeeze in. The local community college had an IBM system 360, which impressed me enough that I started building a computer of my own in my bedroom. My dad helped me run down parts for it. As much of it as I ever finished appeared to work correctly. (I still have it on a shelf in my garage, right next to many other complete and working computers which I have designed and built since then. Electronics has advanced so rapidly, that my first attempt became obsolete before it was completed. My most recent addition is thousands of times smaller, thousands of times faster, thousands of times cheaper, and indescribably more useful.)

One of the requirements for a degree in physics was a “bone-head” electronics class. I sat through the first lecture and asked the professor if I could just take the final. He smiled at me as said he’d like for me to look over some notes first. He gave me a thick stack of pre-Xerox copies and I took them home and started looking them over. My immediate reaction was that I had made a serious mistake. I was already learning new stuff in the first ten pages. I decided to stick it out anyway, and worked my way through the stack a couple of times, until I thought I understood what it said.

It had taken about two weeks, so I was a little worried that he might ask me why it took so long. He didn’t ask; he just smiled again and gave me the test. There were five problems. The first one was a shock. I had learned to use differential equations in my physics classes, but I had no idea that they could be applied to electronic circuits as well. I looked at the other four problems; they were even harder. After some experimenting, I figured out how to apply the equations to the first problem. It worked, and I experienced a bit of hope. The second problem was a little harder; but it eventually gave up its secrets and I had its solution as well. The third problem stopped me. I wrote about a page of notes explaining how I would set up the problem, but explained that I had no idea how to work the math. The last two problems were hopeless. I gave up, turned the test in, and explained to the professor that I had not done as well as I had hoped.

He smiled again and asked what I would like to do for the lab part of the class. Seeing a possible opportunity, I told him about the computer I was building, and asked if figuring out how to read and write data into, and back out of, its core memory would be a good enough project. He agreed that it would be an acceptable substitute. I had the use of a well-equipped electronics lab for the whole semester! I managed to get enough of it working that I was able to write up a paper to turn in, which explained how the memory worked. He agreed this met the lab requirements.

During that semester I had repeatedly asked him how I had done on the test. All I could get out of him was, “I’m sure you passed,” and the same smile. It wasn’t until the last day of class, when I was cleaning up my bench in the lab, and the rest of the students were going over their finals with the professor that I figured out that I had just had a brilliant practical joke played on me. Years later, when I compared notes with my friends who had received degrees in electrical engineering, I learned I was better prepared than they were.

When it came time to graduate, my “grad check” reported that I was one general education unit shy of graduation. This was due to my having had a math class “waved.” (I had taken it at a different college; they had waved the requirement but hadn’t transferred the units. I hadn’t bothered to do the math and hadn’t realized that this could become a problem.)

Since I had planned on leaving school and starting my life at that point, that’s what I did. A friend (who, unlike myself, was now a degreed physicist) asked if he should look for a job for me. I told him I thought I would be happy just doing fun stuff; but to keep my options open, I suggested that if a really cool job came up, maybe he should give me a call to check to see if I was hungry.

Jacobsen: What have been some professional certifications, qualifications, and trainings earned by you.

Stoner: Pretty close to noting. My inventions (mostly applications of A.I. to embedded-system computers) eventually earned me a pair of patents which seemed to impress potential employers; but I didn’t go back to finish my degree until a “real” publisher decided to pick up one of my books. Since it was a controversial book, heavily relating to science, I thought a degree in physics might look better than nothing next to my name.

By that time, one of my old professors was the head of the physics department, and he didn’t see a problem, so I retook the offending math class (a quick summer course) and they mailed me a signed piece of paper that purported to be a degree in physics. No employer ever seemed to care very much about it, but it was, technically, a bit of certification. My book was published, and I started to be regarded (and

occasionally quoted) as an “authority” in many of the different technical fields which I had addressed. The book’s controversial nature gained me at least as much notoriety as fame.

Jacobsen: What have been some work experiences and jobs held by you?

Stoner: Roughly in order: draftsman, aerospace electronics designer, [college fits in here] musician, sound system designer, ditch digger, optical disc engineer, programmer, inventor, embedded system consultant, author, lecturer, toy electronics engineer, semi retired, retired. This list reminds me of the spread of occupations covered by various members of my extended family.

Jacobsen: Why on earth did you pursue this particular job path?

Stoner: There was no consistent strategy: I’ve always just done whatever I thought was most needed (in different situations) at each time. Originally I worked for my Dad’s engineering company, doing whatever he needed at the time. But during college, I became interested in a local church-startup, which had caught my interest. By the end of college, I was doing more volunteer work for the church than studying. This included performing music and maintaining sound equipment for churches and evangelical groups of musicians.

I didn’t really have all that much use for money, until I asked a drop-dead gorgeous young lady (with a similar family background to my own) to marry me. I hadn’t warned her that I was thinking in those terms, so she was kind of shocked (understatement) when I asked her. Since, at the very least, I was expecting her to ask if I had any plans to get a real job, so I could support her, I was also kind of shocked (literal clinical “shock” would be a more accurate description) when she immediately and enthusiastically accepted. (In case, you hadn’t already guessed. She’s part Cherokee, on her mother’s side, straight up the female lineage — as are all of my grand kids, since my son’s have not yet produced any grand kids as of this writing.)

I started working on an early power-line carrier invention of a friend of the family who was an electrician. He had a contract to install some underground conduit which would ultimately use this invention, but what he needed immediately was to get some ditches dug. It was a job, and it would cover the immediate bills while I finished his invention.

Unfortunately, that friend died before we finished either the job or the invention. My bride to be went through with the wedding anyway, and we were off to what could have been a very bad start.

Fortunately, one morning, the phone rang. It was my “physicist” friend from college. He asked me if I was hungry. I answered, truthfully, that I actually was hungry. Having received my go-ahead, the next item on his agenda was that he had found that “really cool job” and wondered if I could please come in and apply for it. I did; and I immediately became a member of the team that was in the process of developing the “optical” disc. (These were later called CDs DVDs and a few other more familiar names). While I was there, microprocessors first hit the market. I was the only member of the team who had electronics, computer, and programming experience, so I became a paid participant in a new and wildly growing profession. For details, see:

http://blamld.com/DiscoVision/DiscoVision_History.htmhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DiscoVision

As a relevant aside, Kevin Langdon’s L.A.I.T. came out while I was still working there. That company had intelligent management who, consequently, knew how to pick out intelligent engineers (even those who had questionable education and work experience). Kevin’s test was an immediate hit with all the engineers, who began copying it and passing it around. We were having so much fun with it, that it probably cost the project a day or two of lost work. I played with it long enough to acquire the reputation of being up to Langdon’s standards, which meant something even in that highly cerebral environment.

When the project was completed. All of the managers and engineers found work elsewhere. I soon found myself with large base of clients who all needed consulting help in the new field of embedded-systems microprocessor engineering.

Jacobsen: What are some of the more important aspects of the idea of the gifted and geniuses?

Stoner: There are only two really important categories:

1) Learning to survive: No one is expecting you; they have probably never met anyone like you before; they may not even really believe you exist. Furthermore, they are as different from you as you are from them; you may see them daily, but it may be difficult to comprehend how different they might be. Those other people will do unexpected things, and you can’t let your surprise show. The easiest way to tick people off is to let any implied “contrast” in abilities slip. You either have to master patience or become a hermit. Either path is a “short drive” to becoming “crazy.” For details, see: “The Outsiders”:

I was lucky in this category. My extended family has always been like me and have understood me. I also fell into many professional circles in which I felt quite “at home.”

2) Learning to be useful: The “Peter Parker principle” (popularized by Spider-Man) says, “With great power comes great responsibility.” The proverb dates back to earlier times, and different contexts, but the general message is that we all owe something to the rest of society. Being a hermit is, arguably, a waste of our entire existence; but trying to help others is risky at best. The average person can’t tell the difference between a “prophet from God,” and a “heretic from the Devil.” Both are likely to get themselves crucified. There is a risk anytime you can “see” things which other people can’t.

Erwin Schro:dinger’s “cat” and Fred Hoyle’s “big bang” were both terms used to deride the sources of those ideas. More experiments eventually vindicated both ideas. But that vindication took many years. Those who take a stand, do so at their own risk. Those who don’t, risk the consequences of shirking their responsibility.

Again, I have been acceptably lucky. I have been in the wrong place at the right time, with sufficient frequency, to have made what difference I can; and have certainly earned my fair share of both derision and respect.

Jacobsen: Those myths that pervade the cultures of the world. What are those myths? What truths dispel them?

Stoner: I can make an enemy anytime I want to by identifying any one of those myths. I’ve certainly tried often enough to do this. Some pastors think my book “A New Look at an Old Earth” contains God’s Holy Truth. Others consider it the Devil’s own heresy:

http://web.archive.org/web/20170606063247/http://answers.org/newlook/index.htm

“Truths” do not normally dispel “myths.” Otherwise, Schro:dinger and Hoyle’s “truths” would have won the day. When we are lucky, additional “evidence” will eventually prevail, as it eventually did with quantum mechanics and big-bang cosmology.

Jacobsen: When you think of the ways in which the geniuses of the past have either been mocked, vilified, and condemned if not liked, or praised, flattered, platformed, and revered, what seems like the reason for the extreme reactions to and treatment of geniuses? Many alive today seem camera shy — many not at all.

 Stoner: People like being told they’re right; they don’t like being told they’re wrong. Converting those who are wrong may be difficult or impossible. We all face different audiences; We have different abilities; We each choose our battles; And we get whatever results we get.

Jacobsen: Who seem like the greatest geniuses in history to you?

Stoner: That would, obviously, be whoever’s thoughts matched whatever I happen to be thinking at the moment. [sarcasm warning required?] Seriously, I’m in no position to rank the greatness of any minds which are greater than my own. Instead, I’ll answer an easier question: I’ll identify some men who have actually caused me to change my thinking: [or you could simply ask a follow-up question …]

Albert Einstein: Convinced me that my classical concepts of space and time were completely wrong.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_relativity

John Wheeler: Convinced me that my classical understanding of [the] relationship between “time,” “causality,” and “human observation” was impossible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheeler%27s_delayed-choice_experiment

C.S. Lewis: Convinced me that it was impossible for valid human thought to be produced in a causal environment.

Chapter 3: https://www.amazon.com/Miracles-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060653019/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=miracles+lewis&qid=1609788881&s=books&sr=1-1

Roger Penrose: Convinced me that (and showed me how) “uncaused” human thought could “cause” physical events.

Chapter 6: https://www.amazon.com/Shadows-Mind-Missing-Science-Consciousness/dp/0195106466

Thomas Sowell: Convinced me that differences in human conclusions (e.g. liberal and conservative) result from fundamentally different world views.

Donald Johanson: Convinced me (with his detailed photos and descriptions) that neither Dawkins, Gould, nor my church had evolutionary “jumps” straight.

Bill Watterson: Convinced me that sometimes I just need to relax and enjoy the ride.

Jacobsen: What is the purpose of intelligence tests to you?

Stoner: Mostly no purpose. They generally tend to cause more trouble than good. However, there is at least one exception.

Once, one of my daughters was having trouble quickly sorting guys who were or weren’t “mentally challenged.” (Not really too surprising.) I remembered Langdon’s L.A.I.T. and went looking for it on the internet. Instead, I found Hoeflin’s Power Test. I printed a few copies for may daughter and kept one for myself (to make myself an “answer key”). My daughter decided against using it, but I had been having enough trouble at work (not always understanding or being understood) that I decided to send off my answers (with a check) and see how I’d do. I had kept track of my rate of answering the problems, and how often I had found an error in those answers; from this information, I had calculated that there were probably still two wrong answers left, at the time I mailed it. Dr. Hoeflin scored me with four misses. I didn’t like that, but it was still a good enough score to get into some societies. I joined a couple of them and actually made a few cool internet friends that way. That gave me a chance to try arguing some of my ideas with some people who were prepared to give me at least as hard a time as I could give them. Eventually, I decided the exercise was a learning one, and well worth doing. (This is the one exception noted above.) Over the next few months I located the two mistakes I was expecting to find. Much later I noticed that another problem had multiple possible answers. I wrote to Dr. Hoeflin Explaining this, but wasn’t really expecting the answer I didn’t receive. Recently, I noticed that the problem in question had been changed on the copy of that test which is still on the internet. I don’t know if there was a connection or not. In any case, attempting to measure high-end intelligence is, at best, a “black art.”

Jacobsen: When was high intelligence discovered for you? 

Stoner: My mom told me she was watching me the first time I got a chance to play with my big sister’s blocks after that sister had finished. I was wondering if it would be possible to build “a tower” with them.

(It looked like it might be.) Well it was, but I remember being too clumsy to get the height I’d hoped for. Years later, when my mom told me about it, she also explained how it compared with what she had read

in child development books. But, of course, you can never trust a mother bragging about her own kids. Besides, she also told me that my sisters were all geniuses. I was sure that couldn’t be correct — except that, since then, I’ve watched my sisters grow up. In hindsight, it appears that you also can’t trust a brother complaining about his own sisters.

There were other clues: I was singled out as an artist in kindergarten; I’ve mentioned my 3rd grade teacher suggesting my mom teach me algebra. I had the best score at my jr. high school on a math placement test. There was the state physics competition, and the professor who handed me the effective equivalent of an advanced electrical engineering degree as a practical joke. Those around me often seem to have figured it out quite a bit faster than I ever did. What may have first clued me in was when the L.A.I.T. showed up at the lab where I was working — when I saw some of the actual problems. They were all very hard; but most of them had clear solutions.

A friend of mine once rescued a baby bird who was being pecked to death by a flock of adult birds. While he was trying to figure out what to feed it, he was informed that his young pet was actually a hawk. Maybe the way some of my peers treated me, early on, makes more sense than I could have guessed at the time. I did end up with more than my share of “life’s prizes,” which normal people tend to want to keep for themselves.

Jacobsen: What have been some of the tests taken and scores earned (with standard deviations) for you?

Stoner: My strategy for not acting creepy and ticking people off includes not publishing that kind of information. If anyone cares enough to do their own research, my raw score on the H.P.T. was 32; The other details can be found here:  http://miyaguchi.4sigma.org/index.html (I personally don’t endorse any high-end normings; I strongly suspect all are inflated; otherwise no one would like those tests.)

Jacobsen: What is the range of the scores for you? 

Stoner: I haven’t taken all that many of them, and their scores have differed greatly from each other. The lowest I’ve ever scored was under 120 (above average but not “gifted”), and the highest was on the H.P.T.

Jacobsen: What differentiates a genius from a profoundly intelligent person? Is profound intelligence necessary for genius?

Stoner: I’m not even sure what those two terms mean anymore. In the 1600s, Shakespeare’s plays and the King James Bible kind of canonized the English language. Before that, spelling was kind of free-for-all, and it was difficult to read works which preceded one’s own time by more than fifty years. With “political-correctness,” we’re sliding back into that morass again; words no longer have stable meanings. The I.Q. categories used to be: >=140: genius, >=160: high genius, >=180: highest genius, >=200: unmeasurable genius. Today there doesn’t appear to be any universally agreed-upon definition for either of your terms. Examples:

https://wondergressive.com/the-profound-intelligence-and-intuition-of-elephants/

I’m guessing that if you defined those two terms for me, I would simply use your definitions as the answer to your own question. [or questions]

Jacobsen: Any thoughts on the God concept or gods idea and philosophy, theology, and religion?

Stoner: Yes, quite a few: I happen to be a “biblical” Christian (although I’m widely regarded to be something of a heretic, probably because I also study science and history before I make decisions about what that Bible means). For example, I believe that the first chapter of Genesis needs to be understood in the context of both 5000-year-old Sumerian writing and the best information we have from current cosmology.

I wrote a book on the age of the earth explaining how this works:

http://web.archive.org/web/20170606063247/http://answers.org/newlook/index.htm

I have also posted a short web page explaining the remainder of Genesis, in the context of ancient Sumerian language and history:

http://www.dstoner.net/Genesis_Context/Context.html

Pastors and others who can be persuaded to change their minds often think my writings could save many Christians’ credibility from self-destruction. Those who are unwilling, or unable, to change their beliefs might actually consider “me” to be a threat to Christianity itself (as if that were possible). Unfortunately, most of the latter’s beliefs appear to be grounded in the science and philosophy of about A.D. 1500-1700.  I believe that combining modern understanding with the language and history in which the biblical writings were originally created is a much better approach.

It is my belief that “the Church” has been too slow ditching the ideas of Descartes and Newton, in favor of those of Einstein and Wheeler. Secular philosophers also seem to show the same reluctance to change, but in their case, it’s more easily understood: Not only is it true that modern physics: (general relativity, the Bell experiment, the big bang, …) give back all the ground that God supposedly yielded during the so-called “enlightenment” (circa 1600-1800), it’s also true that modern science doesn’t really even make sense, until we discard many of the philosophical structures which were created under naturalistic, causal, Newtonian mechanics. In one form or another, God” is back, whether or not either camp is willing to recognize “Him” in his real-world embodiment. For more detail, see my online book: Who Designed God?:

http://www.dstoner.net/Philosophy_Religion/WDG.html

Jacobsen: How much does science play into the worldview for you?  

Stoner: Quite heavily. Science is, arguably, inseparable from my worldview. I am, after all, (finally) a “degreed physicist;” (although that is not actually a significant fraction of my scientific education. My chemistry and other science classes didn’t really make that much difference either.)

It started with my home environment: When I was in about the third grade, my dad started a local science club. This meant we always had plenty of interesting scientific equipment scattered around the house. This, coupled with a remarkable collection of readily available science books and other reference materials, got me started on many unsupervised projects of questionable safety. Mixing this kind of activity in with toy trucks and Monopoly games kept science a very real part of my early world. At about the same time, my dad also started taking me to the “Alumni” lectures at Caltech every year until he died. After that, my wife’s uncle, also a Caltech graduate, filled that gap by taking me to those lectures.

For another significant contribution: About forty years ago I was asked to teach a class on the first chapter of Genesis at the church I then attended. That first chapter addresses the history of the universe in approximately the same order in which the 500-579 section of a Dewey Decimal system Library is arranged. This coincidence made it convenient to organize my research by simply reading through that section of the local county library in its natural physical order.

Although I had formal training in physics, chemistry, and mathematics (and the one college biology class), and had been an avid reader of all kinds of scientific material, I realized I was still pretty ignorant of most of what I might need to know for the class. I really needed to fill in the holes.

Time was limited: (I had exactly eight full-time weeks budgeted). To help keep the task manageable, I mostly skipped over the physics and chemistry sections, figuring I was probably sufficiently well-informed there. I also skipped 580-599 just because those parts weren’t sufficiently relevant. To further thin the load: I used Isaac Asimov, as a guide. Dr. Asimov was still alive and writing at the time. He had already written so many books that he had some kind of introductory layman’s guide, spaced maybe about one for every ten or twenty running feet of books — all through the whole science section. Each of his books would introduce me to the key names and events in each division. I would start reading his book, then some of the more significant books, which he had mentioned. Next I would “chain” my way outward, using that additional information, until the authors were all beginning to repeat each other. I would also “judge books by their covers;” skipping over old, scientifically-dated books, among others.

Toward the end of those weeks, I was starting to notice that the authors in one section often appeared to be unaware of what authors in other sections had written. For one example, the geologists appeared not to have read what the astronomers had written about how the early earth lost its original atmosphere; otherwise, they would have had only one theory, instead of two, to explain how this had happened. I used this single theory in my own book (mentioned and linked in the previous question) which I wrote after teaching this class (to document my research and to make it available others). Here is a brief web page which includes the one single theory I had accepted:

http://www.dstoner.net/Math_Science/Solar.html

After teaching the class and writing the controversial book, I received quite an extreme range of reactions (including being vilified and revered). I’ve been invited to speak and debate; I’ve also been “negatively featured” in the works of many who disagree with me. Although I’ve never actually been kicked out of a church, I don’t always feel completely welcome in every one.

This blended approach to science and theology is actually a continuation of my family legacy. My grandfather, Peter Stoner, wrote a book which was similar in many ways but was directed to a different (nearly exactly opposite, in fact) target audience:

Science Speaks

http://sciencespeaks.dstoner.net/

Jacobsen: What ethical philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Stoner: For most of us, the concepts of “right” and “wrong” seem to be, more or less, universally understood. The “Golden Rule” states: “Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you.” This rule is generally regarded to be the best summary of what morality requires. It was taught by Kung Fu Tzu (in the Sayings of Confucius 5:12), the Buddha (in the Dhammapada #129), Jesus (in Matthew 7:12, and Luke 6:31), and by many others. This Rule is not unique to any particular culture or religion; it is something which nearly everyone seems to understand.

Even so, the claim is often made that the terms “right” and “wrong” have no absolute meanings. “The Trolley Problem” is one of many exercises which are designed to support this claim; it forces a person to decide between two choices – both of which are obviously “wrong.” The two options are deliberately balanced to make the choice difficult; the specific options which are normally given in The Trolley Problem are: killing five helpless people by inaction (letting a runaway trolley crush them) or: taking action and killing one helpless person (switching the trolley onto a different track). When presented with these two options, most people will choose to save the five by actively killing the one – but some will argue that inaction is the better choice. Does this prove that moral standards differ – and that morality is, therefore, not really absolute?

In real life, people seldom encounter such extreme choices. They usually consider it their moral responsibility to look far enough ahead to anticipate situations where only bad options remain; once identified, they try to avoid those situations by disarming potential problems while other options are still available.

But this example is still an interesting way to explore what could happen in a situation where very small differences in judgment can produce opposite choices. Those differences can actually be as small as different life experiences. A medical doctor who has worked under wartime triage conditions, for example, may find it easier to make rapid life-and-death decisions (based on mere numbers) than a Hollywood stuntman – who might need to see convincing proof that the five aren’t just stunt dummies before he “takes action” to murder the one real actor.

For more detail, see Chapter Thirteen: The Weird Nature of Morality, here:

http://www.dstoner.net/Philosophy_Religion/WDG2017.01.10.pdf

Jacobsen: What social philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Stoner: My first choice would definitely be living like a hermit. But “God” doesn’t leave me alone when I try it. “He” even enlisted help (in the form of the aforementioned jaw-dropping, nerd-kissing babe). She tends to make sure I live my “social” life by a philosophy which I would, by my own selfish nature, naturally avoid. I do not consider this to be an “error,” even though it is outside of my comfort zone; it is an acceptable compromise in the direction of social (and moral) responsibility.

When possible, I prefer to fulfill my social responsibilities by doing quiet, secluded research, from which others are likely to benefit.

Jacobsen: What economic philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Stoner: Ever since we left the hunter-gatherer phase of our existence, and then moved past the “traditional” nomadic/village existence, there have really only been two choices (or possibly three, counting the various attempted combinations): 1) Capitalism: Let it all take care of itself, and accept the consequences (for better and for worse) which Charles Darwin promised. 2) Socialism: Have someone take care of it all by force, and accept the consequences (so far, always a disaster, but the idea always promises hope): the mutant degradation, also promised by Darwin’s thesis — if not properly implemented anywhere in nature.

I’m solidly with Darwin on this one. Darwin’s other stuff appears to work as advertised with two notable (but presently irrelevant) exceptions:

A) The first living cell: http://www.dstoner.net/Math_Science/cell1.html

B) Punctuated equilibrium: http://www.dstoner.net/Philosophy_Religion/SurMom.html

Jacobsen: What political philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Stoner: I am of the opinion that humans are barely capable of governing themselves, and completely incapable of governing each other. Winston Churchill probably had it straight: “Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.” Here’s the problem: If we start with the two economic systems (remembering that economics is a major part of what government must control), we have to try to strike some kind of balance between 1) Capitalism: self-regulating (but inherently ruthless), and 2) Socialism: idealistic (but requiring ruthless enforcement).

Darwin sorts out the errors in the former (at the expense of the less fit), but even if those who became the “masters” (over the rest of us) were sufficiently “omniscient” to know who should get the STM32F413 microprocessors, and who should make do, the best they could, with the STM32F103s, both producers and consumers will still lose their motivation to improve the system. (This example was deliberately chosen to be obscure, to emphasize the inherent difficulty in managing an entire technical economy.)

When you remove “survival pressure” from a system, the individuals don’t remain the same, they will still “mutate” randomly — and random mutations are seldom an improvement. If you make sure all “voters” are taken care of, by giving them a “living wage,” you will soon find that the majority of those voters will become incapable of supporting themselves. (It is extremely unlikely that many people will bother to study the differences between STM32F103s and STM32F413s without there being a significant reward in return for their efforts.) “Darwin” offers to fix this problem for us (with his bloody teeth and claws), but do we really want his “help?” On the other hand, what if we can’t even “survive” without that help?

What kind of “balance” could possibly keep everyone both happy (satisfied) and motivated (dissatisfied) at the same time? When worded this way, the problem becomes obvious: Any workable system must provide satisfaction to those who are productive and dissatisfaction tho those who are not. Otherwise, productivity quickly “devolves.” Historic examples are ubiquitous. Counterexamples, ephemeral.

Jacobsen: What metaphysics makes some sense to you, even the most workable sense to you?

Stoner: As a very young child, my default presumption was that matter was all there was. I had blocks, and other toys which also had wheels, levers and gears; I understood how these worked, and simply presumed that all other things worked essentially the same way. Then one day (all I remember for sure is that it was before my fourth birthday), I had caught myself staring out through my own eyes, at nothing in particular, and noticed how very strange it was that I could perceive the world around me, and how odd it was that I was aware of my own existence. In this case, there was obviously something very different about the “device” involved; it wasn’t just more complex; it seemed to operate on a completely different principle. (Half a century later, I would learn that scientists call this “The Hard Problem.”)

I was in college — building my own computer, one transistor at a time – before I had completely rejected the idea that an electronic computer could actually “think.” I finally understood “electronics” well enough that I simply knew better. For more detail, See Who Designed God? Chapter 8:

http://www.dstoner.net/Philosophy_Religion/WDG2017.01.10.pdf

At that time, it would be fair to say I’d stopped being a mind-matter “monist,” and was firmly in the “dualist” camp.

This was before my education in physics included very much detail about relativity or quantum mechanics, partly because I was less than halfway to a mere B.S., but mostly because much of the really cool stuff hadn’t been discovered yet. My reading eventually brought me up to date. There were four men in, particular, (mentioned and linked above) who, together, forced my last step: Albert Einstein, John Wheeler, C.S. Lewis, and Roger Penrose. Together, these four finally convinced me that “mind” was the “primordial substance” and that “matter” was the “illusion.”

This makes me a “mind-monist.” Philosophers call this position, “Berkeleyan idealism.”

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/berkeley/

It often requires the “Bell experiment” to convince a skeptic to accept the truth of John Wheeler’s “Delayed-choice experiment.;” but, arguably, all of the evidence is actually present in Wheeler’s earlier and simpler version of this same odd piece of evidence. Wheeler’s Wikipedia page is linked above; the experiment is also summarized here pp.208-213:

Jacobsen: What worldview-encompassing philosophical system makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Stoner: Here’s the very short explanation “Berkeleyan idealism,” rephrased in the language of Wheeler’s experiment: “The “physical universe” doesn’t assume an “actual” form until after “observers” have chosen in what manner they will observe it; “reality” delays making all of it’s “choices” until after the “mind” of an “observer” has made “his/her/its” choice.

This is what George Berkeley (1685-1753) decided, hundreds of years ago, without the benefit of the evidence from Wheeler’s experiments. At that time, most philosophers could easily dismiss his suggestion. But since that evidence became available, this became about the only way I could make any sense out of the universe. Explaining this realization in detail is the central theme of my online book, Who Designed God?:

http://www.dstoner.net/Philosophy_Religion/WDG.html

After Wheeler forced me to drop my naturalistic prejudices, and permitted me to consider stranger options, I was able to understand how that time, and space, might “exist” in “intangible form” — as mathematical properties which are self-existent and only statistically constrained. The final missing piece was the understanding that the “catalyst” which triggers the “solidification” of these mathematical properties (physicists call this “collapse of the wave function”) was “observation” by a “mind” (a “human” mind in every experimental write-up I have ever read, however, I am unconvinced that Erwin Schro:dinger himself was necessary to determine the fate of his “cat;” I suspect the cat was capable of performing his or her own observations.)

In any case, the experiments tell us that a “mind’s” act of “observation” determines the outcome of a “physical” experiment. Further, every bit of the “physical matter” from which the experimental apparatus is constructed, comprise nothing more than statistical mathematical properties, which do not become permanent either, until they are observed by a “mind.”

This oddness extends to the space and time (in which matter exists). They are, themselves, “bent” in odd ways to accommodate whichever “observer” happens to be looking at them at the moment. (This even goes as far as “simultaneously” accommodating two observers with very different coexisting frames of reference.)

Add to this the fact that statistical “mathematics” themselves are arguably more like “mental” concepts than they are like “physical” things, and it becomes hard  to think of anything as being “physical.”

Much of this will sound like patent nonsense to anyone who hasn’t “served time” in a quantum physics lab, as it would to any properly educated person living during the “enlightenment,” but it’s still a much better approximation of the true all-encompassing philosophical system which calls the shots in our universe.

However, this is not the only “possible,” way to resolve the evidence. It is just the “least complex” way. There are other equally absurd-sounding models which otherwise-lucid people propose to avoid the conclusion I have reached. One involves the universe constantly experiencing “infinitely” many bifurcations, to accommodate all possible observations which any sentient being might ever make. This requires a literally-infinitely more complex universe; but some consider this preferable to allowing that “mind” might have cosmic qualities. Here is a quite serious presentation of one such theory: See pp.236ff:

Those, like myself, who take the “cosmic-mind” path, have other issues to consider — such as deciding what to make of a few ancient passages from 2000-year-old biblical Greek:

In the beginning was the “logos” (Logic, thought, mind), and the “Logos” was with/at Theos (God), and Theos was the Logos. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. -John’s Gospel 1:1-3

Or:

He is before all things and in him all things “hold together.” (consist) -Paul’s letter to the Colossian church 1:17

These bits of ancient religion sound suspiciously like the sort of universal mind-monism which is presently haunting the world’s physics laboratories. Men, having once driven “the gods” from their realm (back during the “enlightenment”), are naturally somewhat reluctant to welcome back anything which sounds even faintly like them — or worse yet, anything like “Him” (capitalized and singular).

I’ve chosen to go with the traditional religious understanding followed by my family historically: Originally Jewish, then Christian..

Jacobsen: What do you make of the mystery and transience of life?  

Stoner: That is a very interesting question. Here are some more related questions: Why is it a “mystery” that life is so short? How long is life really supposed to last? Why is it that we all seem to sense that this life is *not* what it is supposed to be? Maybe what is truly strange isn’t that life is “brief,” it’s our firm conviction that this obvious and observable “fact” is somehow “wrong.”

These question could all be answered with the same simple suggestion: “This life” isn’t “real life.” It’s just “a test.” As we all seem to sense: “Real life” must be something which is more real and lasts much longer.

Jacobsen: What provides meaning in life for you?

Stoner: If you mean: “Why are we here?” “What is life all about?” “What is the purpose of existence?” … then this question can easily be answered in the context of the answer suggested for the previous question:

If this “life” is just” a test,” then the only things which are really “meaningful” are the “choices” we make. Those, alone, determine who we “really are.” Nothing else will be “graded.”

(This shouldn’t surprise us: According to Wheeler, those “choices” are exactly

what shapes all of “reality.”)

Jacobsen: Is meaning externally derived, internally generated, both, or something else?

Stoner: People often ask whether “truth” is externally derived or internally generated. Both are really the same question: Are our “minds” alone and in charge? Or do they act within a system of greater definitions?

I’m pretty sure that logic, and therefore mathematical truth, and therefore quantum mechanical truth, make up a greater reality within which my own thoughts can, rightly, be judged to be objectively true or errant. I have a similar opinion about the absolute-nature of the “morality” of my “choices.”

Jacobsen: Do you believe in an afterlife? If so, why, and what form? If not, why not?

Stoner: I do believe in an afterlife. The long explanation for “why” can be found in my online book “Who designed God?”:

http://www.dstoner.net/Philosophy_Religion/WDG.html

It requires a fair sized fraction of that book to nail this question down. I’ll try a shorter answer here. The argument is not easy to follow, so I’ll begin with a simple warm-up problem: Is logic itself valid? There are two ways we might attempt to answer this question:

1) We could construct a “logical” proof that “logic” was valid.

This, unfortunately, would involve a circular (and therefore be an invalid) argument.

Or:

2) We could construct an “illogical” or “alogical” proof.

In which case we would be making an “invalid” argument right from the beginning. It would seem there can be no valid way to prove the validity of logic itself. But should we accept it anyway? Again we have two choices:

A) We can simply reject logic, in which case we are now finished with all logical arguments (including this one).

Or:

B) We can accept logic, in which case we must accept the consequence that logic is “primordial” (in the

sense that it cannot be tested by other things, but that it is a first principle by which all other ideas are tested). That would make it an “uncaused” “first cause” from which all other valid reasoning emerges.

That was the “easy” first step. Next, can our thoughts really be trusted? To answer this we must know how they are “caused.” If they are “caused” at all, do we cause them ourselves? Or do non-sentient forces cause them? If our thoughts are merely the last “domino” to fall, in a long chain of causes, then we might have good reason to distrust them. In my book, “Who Designed God?” I took several chapters to develop this idea properly:

Chapter 5: Quantum Mechanics

Chapter 6: From Quantum Mechanics to Brain

Chapter 7: From Brain to Mind

Chapter 8: Mind, Logic, and Mathematics

Chapter 9: Can Logic be Trusted?

http://dstoner.net/Philosophy_Religion/Who15old.pdf

Here, I’ll just touch a few key points:

As I explain (in an argument borrowed from C.S. Lewis) in chapter 9 (of my book), two different (actually opposite) meanings of the word “because” tend to confuse our thinking about causality. The more causality (because[CAUSE]) encroaches upon the process of our logic and reasoning, the less reason we have to trust the basis for that reasoning (because[GROUNDS]). When causality finally becomes absolute, our grounds for believing our conclusions disappears completely. This is the sense in which because[CAUSE] and because[GROUNDS] are opposites. They are mutually exclusive in our thought processes. When a person has a mechanical reason to say something (for example, because[CAUSE] they are prejudiced, or because[CAUSE] they are drunk, etc.) we believe we are justified in disregarding any “authority” their opinions might otherwise have carried. For more Detail, see: C.S. Lewis, Miracles, Chapter 3:

Next, Physicist Roger Penrose (co-author of Stephen Hawking’s paper on black holes), structures within our brain’s cells. He has teamed up with Stuart Hameroff to present very convincing experimental evidence that consciousness itself is a quantum-mechanical property. See: pp. 348ff:

Quantum mechanics breaks us free from the causal chain which would, effectively, have eliminated our ability to choose and robbed our thoughts of having independent meaning.

Returning to our choice above:

A) We can simply reject logic, in which case we are now finished with all logical arguments (including this one).

Or:

B) We can accept logic, in which case we must accept the consequence that logic is “primordial”

The “A” path rejects truth and logic. The only way we can continue to follow the “B” path is if our thoughts are “uncaused causes” instead of merely “caused” events. If we are sticking with a belief in logic and in our own ability to make choices, then we must conclude that our thoughts are not “caused” by matter. But if so, then it follows that they cannot be “uncaused” (though death) by the absence of, or by the failure-to-function of matter. That does not mean that there is nothing which can “uncause” them, but it wouldn’t be mere physical death. This argument is obviously contingent on truth and logic being accepted, but if they aren’t, then no questions have “answers.” So, it about as strong an argument as I am able to raise in defense of any logical concept. Accept it or reject it as you choose. I also have an opinion about “why” there “should” be an afterlife: It’s what we all sense is missing from this present life. It’s where and when everything will finally make sense.

Jacobsen: What is love to you?

Stoner: “To me?” There’s more to this than “my opinion.” My wife knows (objectively) what “love” is, and what love requires from me. So do I. In real life, “love” is effectively a verb. It’s what we do. Our acts can be either selfish or selfless. If my actions don’t line up with what love requires, It won’t fly. “Love” is what we should do in any situation. Love’s opposite is what we must learn to avoid. Darwin’s world optimizes Whatever works pragmatically best for each individual. Whatever sort of “god” designed this world, he/she/it (all three are technically wrong) obviously put “Darwin” in charge of maintaining survive-ability over the long term, (with wildly shifting climates and environments). Would such a “god” then need to be completely uncaring? Maybe, but if so, then why would we (also a result of that same creation) be designed to feel so strongly that “Darwin’s” path is “morally wrong?” My answer to this question is the same as for many of the previous questions: This isn’t “real life.” It’s a test to see how we will react to the different situations in which we each find ourselves, and what “choices” we will make. Some of us live in Communist China, some in Beverly Hills, some in the Congo or in Bangladesh. Some of us are holding our breaths, waiting to see what our own country might soon become. Is Darwinian Capitalism “good?” Certainly not. Is Communism an improvement? Certainly not (especially if humans are put in charge of either). What should we do personally? In every case, under any government, we  must try to be the solution instead of the problem. We must look out for others with as much sincerity as we look out for ourselves. (The responsibility is our own. No human government can or will take care of that for us.) “True life’s” rewards cannot depend on human governments either. I recommend that everyone make all of their choices as wisely as possible. Slightly edited from my web page: Extraordinary evidence exists everywhere:

The big bang (something from nothing);

the first cell (complex life from non-life);

punctuated evolution (information accumulation exceeding the population-mutation rate);

sentience (awareness from nano-electro-mechanics);

The very existence of logic and morality (an obvious is/ought causality reversal).

These require no more proof than that we observe them to exist.

Theories to explain this extraordinary evidence can rightly be debated.

Such theories necessarily make extraordinary claims.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Member, Epimetheus Society; Member, One-in-a-Thousand Society.

[2] Individual Publication Date: March 22, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/stoner; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Professor Terry Adrian Gunnell on Background, Informal Culture, Native Americans and Icelanders, Choosing Iceland, and Mythologies: Professor, Folkloristics, University of Iceland (1)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/03/15

Abstract

Terry Gunnell is Professor of Folkloristics at the University of Iceland. He is author of The Origins of Drama in Scandinavia (1995); editor of Masks and Mumming in the Nordic Area (2007) and Legends and Landscape (2008); and joint editor of The Nordic Apocalypse: Approaches to Vluspá and Nordic Days of Judgement (with Annette Lassen, 2013); and Málarinn og menningarsköpun: Sigurður Guðmundsson og Kvöldfélagið (with Karl Aspelund), which received a nomination for the Icelandic Literature Prize (Íslensku bókmenntaverðlaunin) for 2017. He has also written a wide range of articles on Old Norse religion, Nordic folk belief and legend, folk drama and performance, and is behind the creation of the on-line Sagnagrunnur database of Icelandic folk legends in print (http://sagnagrunnur.com/en/); the national survey into Folk Belief in Iceland (2006-2007); and (with Karl Aspelund) the on-line database dealing with the Icelandic artist Sigurður Guðmundsson and the creation of national culture in Iceland in the mid-19th century (https://sigurdurmalari.hi.is/english). E-mail address: terry@hi.is. He discusses: family background; highly informal culture; well-preserved culture; Iceland; and Celtic mythology, Native American mythology, Icelandic mythology.

Keywords: culture, Celts, Folkloristics, Iceland, Native American, old Norse, Scandinavia, Scotland, Terry Adrian Gunnell, Tolkien.

Conversation with Professor Terry Adrian Gunnell on Background, Informal Culture, Native Americans and Icelanders, Choosing Iceland, and Mythologies: Professor, Folkloristics, University of Iceland (1)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

*Interview conducted May 23, 2020.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: This is one of the earlier interviews for a series on Iceland. Let’s discuss some family background, personal history, to give a grounding where you’re coming from. What is some family background, e.g., geography, culture, language, religion or lack thereof?

Professor Terry Adrian Gunnell[1],[2]: Born in Brighton and Hove in East Sussex, south of England, father worked with the BBC. From school there, I went onto university to do drama and theatre arts, which is my main subject.

After taking a year between school and university, I went to work in Norway in a hotel. That’s my first connection with Scandinavia. That’s where I met my wife as well working at the same place. She is Icelandic.

She went back to Iceland. I went back to university. She found a way to coming to Birmingham afterwards, where we went on from there. After doing drama, which is not just practical, I ended up doing my B.A. in Icelandic Drama.

I was into Scandinavia at the time. People had written about Norwegian drama, certainly. So, I interviewed people and looked at Norwegian drama, which led me back to Viking times. The beginning of drama and some ancient poems from the Viking Period, certainly monologues and dialogues.

The next step was to do a teaching qualification. A year in my life, as far as I am concerned, a wasted year because you learn much more by teaching practically. One year in teaching in Birmingham in inner-city schools there.

Then we moved to Iceland. I learned Icelandic. I started teaching in the Hamrahlíð College, which had no objection to people having long hair, wearing jeans. Which is part of my problem in Britain, everyone is supposed to wear suits and ties. People are supposed to call the teacher, “Sir.”

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Gunnell: Then I taught English there for roughly 18 years. In between in the summertime, we would be regularly going to Norway and teaching there, doing lectures for tourists, especially American tourists, on Vikings and Scandinavian folklore.

In between, I do a doctorate where I continue with that idea on the background or origins of Scandinavian drama. Then a sense that performance subjects are something that I’ve done since. It brings together things that I’m writing, doing, and in terms of teaching.

1998, I had been teaching for 18 years doing courses. We could do a whole range of experimental courses because it was meant to be an experimental school. We took up a course on Native Americans. We wanted to underline that pigeon-holing isn’t really helping the world.

That if you’re going to understand Native Americans, you need to understand their way of living, and their beliefs and their culture. To understand their beliefs and culture, you need to understand their history and their way of living. Everything was connected.

So, we had a history teacher, an anthropology teacher, and me teaching literature and the beliefs of the different people. We connected the students with Native Americans through the web. That picked up quite a lot of attention around the country.

It was new and making use of the new media. Anyway, 1998, I was offered a position at the university teaching folkloristics. I’d also applied to teach drama as part of comparative literature. I got the folkloristics position. That’s where I’ve stayed since.

Teaching courses on Scandinavian folklore, Celtic folklore, Scottish folklore, Icelandic folktales and beliefs, festivals, Tolkien, old Norse religion, I teach a lot of it. Formal studies of a whole range of stuff, which is what I have been doing now.

I have been moving into retirement from now until next year. That’s basically the story. Strong context with Scotland, Ireland, Scandinavia, and then Britain at the same time. I have a lot of international students coming and taking my courses. Does that do it?

Jacobsen: It’s good [Laughing]. An earlier part of the response, with the transition of teaching in Iceland or even living in Iceland, which is going by a first name, “Terry,” rather than “honourary” this or “Sir” that.

Is that reflective of a highly informal culture where everyone is brought to the same playing field?

Gunnell: It is, certainly, very similar to Germany and Britain, where you have this element of “sir,” “professor,” “doctor,” and whatever else. I’ve got little patience for that. What was great about teaching in senior high, which was where I was before, I was in my early 20s. The students were 18, 19, 20.

The ones, who I were around, were fairly young. There’s a lot more equality. Students and the staff, I did not have much space for the professor. In Iceland, you’re never called “Mr.”

The great thing about Iceland, your name is your Christian name. The surname is a patronymic. Everybody here is called by their first name. The phone book goes by the first name.

Yes, it was healthy. It was nice. This way of doing things. In my case, I had three names, which made it even more confusing.

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Gunnell: I had to change my name when I was given citizenship here. My name didn’t fit into the rules of names, which has to be a Scandinavian name. So, I went to one of the earliest names in the phonebook and found Axel.

“Axel,” we were worried about the axel on the car crashing. We were in Britain for a while. So, I became Axel for a few years.

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Gunnell: Then the University of Iceland refused to have three names and ordered me to just go back and change it. Somehow, Irish names were allowed and Terry was accepted. So, I became Terry, again.

Jacobsen: Iceland is a very well-preserved culture in terms of language. You studied some of Native American history. Is there a similar trend – of those that have been kept – of an accepted norm that the languages have been more or less the same, or is this an incorrect comparison?

Gunnell: Of course, we know very well in terms of Native Americans. We know so little because so little is recorded. We have no idea how the languages developed at the time. Iceland, on the other hand, we have literature.

While it would have sounded slightly different in the Viking times, Icelanders can read that material. It is much easier for them, for example, than for us to read Chaucer. Reading Sagas for them is easier for them than people reading Shakespeare when it comes down it, it comes down to the culture of the Sagas being read on farms for a long time.

It keeps the language in that mode. Languages developed and changed over time. It is a way of speaking and spelling things in the Sagas, but it is not difficult to read. A large number of people can read from an early point.

Literacy in Iceland is much higher than in many other countries. I wouldn’t really compare it to the Native Americans. The pride of the language is, certainly, there. But it is old and an older language in a sense than others that we find around elsewhere.

Jacobsen: Why did you choose Iceland in the end?

Gunnell: [Laughing] My wife’s Icelandic [Laughing], we were working in Norway every Summer. Our plan had been to move to Norway to work. She survived living in England for three years. The idea was that I would survive living in Iceland for three years.

Then we would move to Norway after. She was happy moving back here. I was happy teaching in that school. We found a way of doing both in the sense of going to Norway in the Summer while being here.

I learned Icelandic. It was a good place to work if you could get out in the summertime. Which you can’t at the moment, this year, the first time in, roughly, 40 years [Laughing]. You can’t go anywhere in the summertime.

Jacobsen: If you’re looking at Celtic mythology, Native American mythology, Icelandic mythology, what are some common themes that tend to pop up?

Gunnell: Take them separately, what makes Icelandic mythology and folklore different from other Scandinavian countries, Iceland is definitely Scandinavian. The Celtic side was wiped out, a little bit like the Native American languages were wiped out in the schools. The slaves were not allowed to use their language.

The interesting thing about Iceland is it’s a blend of Scottish, Irish, and Nordic. 50% in terms of DNA, 50% of the women, female DNA, is Gaelic, Celtic. Male, I think, is about 80% Nordic and 20% Gaelic. So, there’s a lot of slaves brought from the Celtic area.

You can see that in the faces and can see it in a number of the folktales and ideas within the Sagas. We are dealing with a culture that is blended. You go to the west of Ireland. You see similar things here, almost Medieval culture, where the land is very much alive and people have respect for rocks.

There are places that you don’t touch or go anywhere near at particular times of the year. Everyone has taken note of Iceland and the elves here. Western Ireland, you have the fairies. You have roads that go around particular trees. You have a strong respect for the land.

It is that that we can connect to the Native Americans. The respect for the land and the sense that the land is alive; that you need to work with it and, certainly, think long-term. Iceland in a sense is split.

Everything you hear me say about Iceland is like two sides of a coin. You were talking about a similar thing in Canada before [Ed. Long, off-tape discussion]. The rightwing is about making money off the land today.

The rightwing is very much an American dream of making cash. The left is more Scandinavian and more aware of the long-term and the need to preserve the landscape. It is a 19th-century romantic sense of respect for the land, which you see among the Native Americans too.

You see this clash in Iceland. Both sides have a historical background. The rightwing, in the 1700s in Iceland, the people were well-aware that you had to live for the day. They were living so much on the edge. They were surrounded by pack ice. The volcanoes were going off, killing 50% of the domestic animals and 1/5th of the population.

This was a time of survival, thinking about just today, became quite instilled within Icelanders. Everybody knows a volcano could go off at any moment. A hot spring could go off in your kitchen at any time.

One is the sense of living for the moment, taking what you can get out of the land. The other is this sense of preserving it, looking at the landscape as beautiful, which is something people in the past didn’t have time.

It is something that you get used to and live with. There is a difference. If you look at Icelandic farms to farms across Denmark and Norway, which are, often, very, very beautifully preserved buildings, in Iceland, you rebuilt your buildings endlessly.

Farms here are more of a dump. A little bit like what you find in Shetland or elsewhere, which I know very well. Because you are living for the moment, ‘Why should we make the farm pretty for anybody. It is just a place that you live.’

That’s one side. On the other side, it is a sense of the power of the country. For everyone, they’ve been brought up with a sense of the country being unique and something that you need to work with and is reflective of those beliefs. It is similar to the Native Americans.

We know it was the same right across Scandinavia and Britain. It is a very long answer.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Professor, Folkloristics, University of Iceland.

[2]Individual Publication Date: March 15, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/Gunnell-1; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Dr. Ricardo Rosselló Nevares on Ph.D. in Bioengineering, Science, Being the Governor of Puerto Rico (2017-2019), and Resignation and Lessons Learned: Former Governor, Puerto Rico (2)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/03/15

Abstract

Ricardo Rosselló Nevares holds a PhD in Bioengineering and Biotechnology. He graduated from Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) with a Bachelor’s degree in Chemistry and Biomedical Engineering with a concentration in Developmental Economics. Rosselló continued his academic studies at the University of Michigan, where he completed a master’s degree and a PhD in Bioengineering and Biotechnology. After finalizing his doctoral studies, he completed post-doctoral studies in neuroscience at Duke University, in North Carolina, where he also served as an investigator. Dr. Rossello was a tenure track assistant professor for the University of Puerto Rico Medical Sciences Campus and Metropolitan University, teaching courses in medicine, immunology, and biochemistry. Dr. Rossello’s scientific background and training also makes him an expert in important developing areas such as genetic manipulation and engineering, stem cells, viral manipulation, cancer, tissue engineering and smart materials. He discusses: moving past a Ph.D. into becoming governor of Puerto Rico and resigning from the position.

Keywords: academia, bioengineering, biotechnology, governor, Puerto Rico, resignation, Ricardo Rosselló Nevares.

Conversation with Dr. Ricardo Rosselló Nevares on Ph.D. in Bioengineering, Science, Being the Governor of Puerto Rico (2017-2019), and Resignation and Lessons Learned: Former Governor, Puerto Rico (2)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: So, you finished your education, you are away from your parents, you get your Ph.D. in bioengineering. Most people think, “Okay, this is a great capstone. I can get going with a straight tenure track job, do some research, and coast into retirement.” More things have happened!

Dr. Ricardo Rosselló[1],[2]*: Yes.

Jacobsen: What is the thought process following from the Ph.D.? Because these are the highest levels of education attainment that any national system provides. So, what was the thinking for you, once that was accomplished?

Rosselló: I love science. Although, I struggle: There’s this strict analytical side and then this emerging observational type of new complexity being observed. I enjoy both of them. I think they are at odds at some points. I’d say: when I was done with my Ph.D., I though that I wanted to continue an academic career – just move forward.

Then I stumbled upon this idea right after my Ph.D. to try a startup. It was very exciting. I must admit. It was new for me. Ultimately, it was not successful. I think the idea was fairly good at the time. Now, you can get all this information without that.

It was a way of extracting more information out of public opinion polling being had at that time. I stayed. I gave myself a year to try that. It didn’t quite work. I sold my part in the company. I sort of need to reconnect with the pure science part of it.

I went to Duke to do a post-doc and get some grants, and practice before I applied to an academic position. Focusing on bioengineering principles, I focused on neuroscience, particularly this phenomena of the vocal learning pathway.

To this, it shows the beauty that I was speaking about before. There are all these connections. There’s even an explanation for evolution, and so forth, but there are some traits that skip some phylogeny. Vocal learning is one of them.

To briefly define it, not to make it about this, though, I find it interesting. Humans are vocal learning. Someone tells us something often enough; eventually, you’ll spit it out. Our closest relatives are not. If you go back, bats are vocal learners. Whales are vocal learners. Songbirds are vocal learners. But close phylogeny to them are not vocal learners.

So, how did this property from really similar brains evolve? There’s many theories. We were looking into them a lot. It is this concept of emergence. Evolution keeps tinkering, tinkering, tinkering, and then all of the sudden finds a way. Vocal learning was a very interesting stepping stone for me to comprehend all of this.

Because I don’t think I’ll ever be able to tap into this question. Obviously, to keep the curiosity juices flowing, the concept of consciousness is really the most complex version of these complexities that emerge. I did that for a while. I was in the States all throughout.

I finished it. I went and applied for an academic position in Puerto Rico. I got it. There’s another parallel track, which is s thing that impassions me. It is the civil rights situation in Puerto Rico. Basically, to reduce it crudely, we are a part of the United States, but not an equal part.

We are a colonial territory. I was passionately linked to that. My family was linked to that. Up until that point, I was really engaged in politics whatsoever, but that issue in particular, to this day, sparks emotion and passion.

So when I got to Puerto Rico, naturally, worlds collide, I start getting involved in this question of how Puerto Rico, from our view, can become a state. My preferred solution is Puerto Rico becoming a state. The tough solution would be becoming something different that what we are not.

Ultimately, we have a say in what happens to the people of Puerto Rico. Then, as I got involved in it, I started seeing all the problems in the island. I started looking around at political cycles. My brain, using my scientific preparation, started seeing that really every political cycle that came and went; there were these promises. The promises were, essentially, the same, even from opposite ends of the political spectrum. For instance, everyone wants a better economy and everyone wants a better education.

The devil is in the details on how it goes. But based on how limited the public discussion is, you could argue there are more ways to get that, but you could argue there are more inaccuracies. Seeing that, unless, we broke with that way of doing things.

Things were going to be the same. Using Einstein’s old adage, ‘Madness is defined by people who do the same experiments and expect different results.’ Not thinking about jumping into politics, I said, “What seems to me, there are complex problems in Puerto Rico. Nobody is touching them.”

If I veer off, take a hold of me, I will try to come back. In the case of Puerto Rico, it had a fiscal and economic collapse. That not only wasn’t like anything seen, barring Greece, in the world. It is a precautionary tale for countries moving forward and states if we’re looking at the United States.

It is complex. It is not just going to be saved by the moxy of somebody saying, “We need more jobs. I’m going to create more jobs.” We really need to dig in deep and question, “How are we going to do this?”

I said, “Let me set up a framework, so whoever runs can buy into it.” The framework was as follows. Let’s start preparing a long-term plan for Puerto Rico, that’s based on a 4-year path identifying the root cause problems.

People say, “The economy is a problem.” Sure, but what is the root of the problem? It is a symptom of other things occurring. Let’s land on these root problems, the second one was: Let’s see if we can go elsewhere, once we identify those problems, in the world, and see what are the best practices.

Even though, the idiosyncratic behaviour is different in the government structures. We can learn something from it, at the principle levee. Some of the guys and girls, and I, went to different countries. We went to Singapore, for example.

There, we studied a few something. Something called the T Government. What is called Urban Redevelopment Authority, which is really cool, we’re talking about how everywhere else infrastructure is falling down.

In Singapore, those guys solved it. They solved it 50 years ago. It is a long-term problem. You need long-term institutions to solve that, not those that change on the whims of politics every four years.

We went to Estonia to see, at the time, e-government. They were at the forefront at the time. We went to Finland to seen the education system to get best practices. We decided to do something, which was the turning point for me in running for office.

It was civic engagement. We went. The idea was: Let’s present what we think are the root-cause problems, and how they connect to what they feel everyday, let’s present what some other places are doing to tackle those problems, and let’s, maybe, present what we can do in Puerto Rico to see if it fits or not.

It was more a call for papers saying, “Hey, look at these things. Why don’t you help us find proposals for the island?” We did. I think it was very successful. At that point, when I decided to really go ahead and run for office, I was running against a guy who was a two-time congressman incumbent, clearly the leader of the party.

But I said, the crystallization moment, “I think this is a critical moment in the history of Puerto Rico. I think there are a lot of things that need to be done. A lot of those things may be hard to explain. But they need to do anyways.”

I don’t think anybody else will buy into this plan for Puerto Rico that we were doing. Long story short, I, through the moxy of that and engaging citizens, was able to squeak out a victory in the primaries by about 2%. I was able to squeak out a victory in the general election by about the same margin.

So, but what I had, which nobody else did before, was a great starting point to start executing reforms, I made everybody in our party sign a document saying that they would support the reforms. Otherwise, they would be kicked out of the party.

The problem: Not a lot of people read them, but they signed them because it was the thing to do. The first part of the administration, we were successful in enacting reform. We were able to push forward some external entities that have said that we were able to do more reform in 100 days than the previous 16 years combined.

It was, essentially, because we had the willpower before rather than arriving over there and starting to figure out what we wanted to do. It started moving along under the most challenging of circumstances. Puerto Rico, at that point, had a little under $300,000,000 in the bank. To give a sense that pays for two payrolls, for about a month’s worth of payrolls in Puerto Rico.

We have to figure out how get more money. We have to figure out how to kickstart the economy. At the same time, with our colonial history with the United States, six months before my administration; there was a fiscal oversight board, which was imposed in Puerto Rico.

So, lots of haggling, lots get done, by the end of Summer, as we were moving along, a black swan or a black elephant event occurs. We get struck, by not one but, two major hurricanes in Puerto Rico.

The first one was September 6, 2017. It was Hurricane Irma. We were able to bounce back quickly from that one. We were able to rescue 5,000 people from the neighbouring islands to give them support, help, and so forth.

The next was Hurricane Maria, which was, by all accounts, a 500- or 1,000-year storm. The strength of it, breadth of it, the complete devastation that it cost. It really set us back. As this thing was unfolding, I felt I had to work on three parallel tracks.

One, the immediate response, people were going to be dying, struggling for their lives. How do we stabilize that element? How could we provide food? How could we provide all these things? That lasted about 2 months, that period.

A typical storm lasts, maybe, a day. For us, it lasted two days. We had no electricity in any parts of the island. No way to communicate with anybody. Roads were clogged or broken down. Different to if this occurs in Vancouver or in Florida, neighbouring parts can come to the aid.

Neighbouring parts were disconnected by a sea. So, it took longer for them to get to Puerto Rico. That was the first phase. The second phase: How do we restore normalcy or a new normal? How do we recover from it?

That meant: When do we start schools? When does everybody have electricity again? The third phase, in my mind, the most exciting phase: the rebuild, how do we take this awful act of nature and try to turn it into something that we can build from?

The truth of matter is we now, or then, have the opportunity to rebuild effectively, to get a lot of federal funds more than ever, and redo our energy grid, redo our education system. That happened when we were getting to the normalization phase.

We went through a second phase of fundamental reforms on energy, on insurance, on poverty, on education, and so forth, to leverage the rebuilding and embed it into this new opportunity. I saw Puerto Rico. Some might find it crude. But we have a blank canvas now.

Pace-wise, instead of building Puerto Rico little by little, we can take a fell swoop at things and fix them. As things are moving forward, we’re stabilizing, reducing the size of government, making some social reform changes.

We abolished – or I had to abolish – conversion therapies in Puerto Rico because the Congress didn’t want to do it. So, I had to do it via executive order. We made equal pay for equal work for women. A lot was happening at the same time.

There was a sort of under-layer of resent and anger for, maybe, things I did, but also because of the environment. Some people didn’t have energy for a year. That’s just ludicrous to think about in the 21st-century.

That was the situation through it all. With the impetus of trying to do reforms, I think I created a lot of enemies. I did an energy reform that would shift energy towards renewables. The petroleum companies were not too happy. Let’s put it that way.

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Rosselló: Similar to a lot of things, coming through to the Summer of ’19, some communications that I had with my government officials, close government officials, had inappropriate language. Of course, I regret using it.

Filtered out, all of the sudden, there was this perfect storm of things happening. Two months before, polls came out saying I would, essentially, win fairly easily if there was a re-election. Two months later, I had to take the determination to resign because of two things.

Number one, I was concerned about the safety of my family because there is a lot of emotion. I don’t blame anyone. It is just what happens. I realized, even if I stayed, I couldn’t do what I was supposed to do.

I did not have the wherewithal to execute the changes that I wanted to. So, if I stayed, I was, essentially, holding the island hostage for two more years. When push came to shove, obviously, after that, there were very unflattering things.

Obviously, part of my effort is correcting some of the record that were said. I made the decision, stayed about a week after – or 10 days approximately – to make the transition to give the opportunity for Puerto Rico to move forward.

Since then, I have stayed away. My mentality, I wanted to removed myself from the equation. Challenges still remain. Hopefully, things can move forward. It has been an interesting life. Obviously, during this process, I’ve reconnected, somewhat, with academia as well – doing some other things.

One of the things that I want to do based on my experience: share those experiences and tackle some of the mistakes I made, so other people can learn from them. Hopefully, Puerto Rico can be a cautionary tale for other jurisdictions of how these things unravel very quickly if you’re not paying attention to them.

That’s a longwinded – sorry if I overextended – account of what happened. There’s many other ways to spiral this. Of course, I will answer any questions coming to mind. That’s, essentially, an overview of what went along.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Former Governor, Puerto Rico.

[2] Individual Publication Date: March 15, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/rossello-2; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Norwegians of the High-Range Discussion with Erik Haereid, Eivind Olsen, and Tor Arne Jørgensen: Statistician & Actuarial Scientist; Chair, Mensa Norway; 2019 Genius of the Year – Europe, World Genius Directory (3)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/03/15

Abstract

Erik Haereid is an Actuarial Scientist and Statistician. Eivind Olsen is the Chair of Mensa Norway. Tor Arne Jørgensen is the 2019 Genius of the Year – Europe. They discuss: the identification of the gifted students in Norway; Norwegian education; Norway improving its education; early childhood education; Mensa Norway; age limits and provisions for the youngest members of Mensa Norway; the upper limit of the measurements of the Mensa Norway proctored and accepted tests; Mensa Norway and the high-range test community; e of the barriers to the coordination and cooperation of the high-range communities with Mensa International or Mensa Norway and the consideration of the high-range community.

Keywords: Erik Haereid, Eivind Olsen, IQ, Mensa, Mensa Norway, Tor Arne Jørgensen.

Norwegians of the High-Range Discussion with Erik Haereid, Eivind Olsen, and Tor Arne Jørgensen: Statistician & Actuarial Scientist; Chair, Mensa Norway; 2019 Genius of the Year – Europe, World Genius Directory (3)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: In terms of the identification of the gifted students in Norway, what are the ways in which to spot them?

Erik Haereid[1]*: Norway is an egalitarian society, where the Law of Jante rules. It’s a lot about suppressing each other, unless the common voice allows the single individual to shine. (I love my people, but I dislike this trait.) That happens with a few, who are marked as ideals. Concerning intelligence, we talk about Magnus Carlsen, who looks good, is young, eccentric and the world’s best in chess. But there are more than 100.000 persons in Norway with Mensa entrance-IQ-level and higher. The main problem is not to spot them, but wanting to keep focusing on them.

Until the society internalizes that there is no threat by providing gifted students an opportunity to evolve, like the society lets many of the cross-country skiers and other athletes do, it will suppress gifted people. It’s about changing views, from feeling personal threat to accept that one can profit on nurturing intelligent and gifted children and students. We have to see the benefits. The benefits by top-athletes are clear to us; people start jogging and feel happy, without comparing themselves like in a competition with those athletes. People have to do the same with gifted people. It’s about respect, about that some are smarter or more gifted in some areas than themselves, and about that they don’t lose worth because of that; on the contrary.

Tor Arne Jørgensen[2]*: Based on the task of “discovering” these most capable students, the general knowledge in our own country of Norway is at best very limited within the field of orientation. However, it should be said that some progress is being made and a few but obvious tell-tale signs can be found, that in turn is viewed as both highlighted as clear indicators, and representative to reveal of subject matter accordingly:

  1. The search for older friends/adults whom can meet them more intellectually.
  2. Constantly searching for new information and learning.
  3. Extended vocabulary, and early understanding of literacy, etc…
  4. Stagnating school teaching bores these students, as they constantly need new and innovative teachings that again can enable the teacher to capture their brilliant intellects.
  5. The imprint of the apparent cliché coated notation of a “class clown” is often used about these students, whereby one prejudices oneself in the fear of not standing out as the clever student that everyone wants to pick on.
  6. Lastly, the overly recognizable designation of «Drop-out» whereby the system fails to catch these students dropping out from schools altogether.

Eivind Olsen[3],[4]: Parents often “know”, but at the same time, parents can also be blinded by the feeling that *their* kid is special. Teachers will also “know”, but there’s not always resources to test the kids. Testing of kids normally happen if either the parents are willing to pay for it at a psychologist, or if the kid is “acting out” in class. There’s no widespread testing so many go undetected.

Jacobsen: How does Norway educate them?

Haereid: Like the others.

Jørgensen: Firstly, Norway does almost nothing to educate these gifted students. Will by that proclaim my statement for the purpose as to address the primary school education system in Norway, by way of exemplifying a purpose directed status quo, as to point out its direct relevance based on which has the greatest impact on these students due to their relatively long education, spanning from early childhood to early adolescence. My personal experiences are by that notation, that the Norwegian schools seem to be knowledge-oriented impaired when it comes to the theme about gifted students, with reference to their innate teaching requirements to get an adapted, as well as purpose-oriented, by implicit targeted schooling. The Norwegian education systems extremely lack knowledge, and extremely lack commitment in order to focus on these students is by that, nothing short of horrible.

I have addressed this issue before in my article in the religious high IQ magazine; Deus Vult, whereby I pointed out a tremendous skewed distribution of resources, according to the learning of weak students who receive full coverage of teacher staffing, and sharpened knowledge tools that follow their specially adapted educational courses from kindergarten level up to and out of high school level. This follow-up system does not include these gifted students, not in the least, at best these gifted students are transferred to a school level above their original school level, or, as in most cases left to fend for themselves, because as the school management always says: “These school-savvy are so self-driven”. When I took my practical pedagogical education (PPU) at the University of Notodden in the South-East of Norway, a fellow student group in pedagogy did a research assignment, that dealt with these gifted students and looked for what type of school programs that was purpose intended and directed at gifted students at these schools. Use of method, was to seek out what type of general knowledge there was to be found in some selected schools in central Norway.

Their findings corresponded to what I expected them to find with regards to my daily profession as a teacher, that these schools had no knowledge of what their obligations were, nor as to what they could do to properly guide these gifted students in their educational course. The Norwegian Directorate of Education (UDIR) has just recently taken up a separate section, where these gifted students appear with vague concretes in accordance with what the primary and lower secondary schools themselves must commit to in accordance with the gifted student educational program and the rights that follow these programs.

In terms of educating these gifted students who represent around 10% of the total number of students in Norway, the Norwegian schools violate these mandatory rights of the gifted students daily! I hope that in the future I can have the opportunity to shed some light on this enormous problem in order to help these gifted students achieving their full potential on an equal footing with regards to the learning weak students at the other end of the intelligence spectrum. This is principle-based on the human rights act, that all children are entitled to the same education according to their inherent abilities. We must therefore now, establish equality before the law for all students, weak and strong!

Olsen: The teachers in the regular school system often don’t have time, resources or knowledge to handle gifted children. When they do, though, they frequently end up giving the kids more tasks, which might almost be seen as some form of punishment. “Oh, you’re done already? Here, solve these equations as well.” In some cases, kids have been allowed to skip a year. Gifted children are not legally guaranteed to get individually adjusted education, that seems to be reserved for the ones struggling in the other end of the pond.

There has been talks about opening up private schools for gifted children, but so far that hasn’t happened either. It seems easy enough to open a private school if it’s based on religion or sports though, but not when it’s based on intellectual giftedness/potential.

Jacobsen: How could Norway improve its education of them?

Haereid: First, accepting the gifted ones, then providing additional environments that give them the necessary freedom to use their abilities. It’s more about a cultural acceptance of extra provisions, than removing the children or students from the others.

It’s about making them feel good, to take charge of themselves and the society, and mix it to a social and common advantage. Creating egocentric capitalists and opportunists is not wanted. I guess this is one possible consequence the authorities are afraid of by making too severe divisions into an already steady egalitarian educational and welfare-system, which already functions quite well concerning the economy.

Jørgensen: Here I must first point out by directing focus on some of the issues mentioned above about the various components that include, the point-by-point concrete references of previously exemplified paragraphs, that this is just one of many ways to recognize that there is an actual problem that must be dutifully addressed according to its severity. But before all this can be started, a serious policy must be properly place, whereby The Norwegian Directorate of Education (UDIR), must have its direct guidelines presented by key political actors, so the way forward is to then properly place the impoder [sic] of the case promoted by proposals and implementation by and for these implementation statutes. Next, the articles of association must be made subjects to the Education Act with a direct reference to immediate measures for these gifted students.

But sadly with regards to the educational policy about these gifted students in schools today whereby an in-depth continuing debate may be presented in its entirety, one experiences that going further into a complementary political debate at the present time may seem futile for now. Will by that notion rather present an expectant hope, that the correct political bodies can now have its final awakening surrounding the debate about gifted students as to the ongoing neglect and ineffective schooling at the expense of negligent involvement on the part of key political actors within school policy, whereby an ongoing skewed distribution is based on prevailing school policy surrounding the Norwegian gifted students in todays schooling programs.

Olsen: It would help if gifted children were legally entitled to individually adjusted education.

Jacobsen: What are some of the things that can help with early childhood education of the profoundly gifted, arguably the most sensitive ability category and exceptional ability category due to significant and obvious mentation differences from same-age peers?

Haereid: I am not sure to which degree one should split very young humans from each other. Everyone needs friends, and to feel socially connected. But assimilation is about using what one has, to everyone’s advantage. It’s not only about how to exploit giftedness, but how to use it for mankind’s best. It’s not a lack of motivation or to find the right path that is the main problem for the gifted child. The challenge is to provide circumstances that make this motivation endure.

To deny a profoundly gifted child its opportunities is as devastating as deny that child a normal social contact. Children need to play and have fun together. If parents and the adult society force prodigies to nurture their gift, it could end as catastrophic as forcing them to be normal.

As a system, one could give gifted children the opportunity to use their abilities, as in separated classes and with special teachers, some hours during the week, and at the same time imprint to the other children that this is not bad for them. I think this has to do with focusing on the other children’s abilities as well. The problem occurs when some define some children better than others, and not by defining some as good at something and others at other things.

Jørgensen: Since there are no clear guidelines within Norwegian public education, hereby understood as the Norwegian Directorate of Education (UDIR) and their exercise of diligence. The Directorate of Education is perceived as then of an weakening confidence, both in terms of idealistic and innovative innovations within the mentioned topic. Consequently, this is justified on the basis of their deficient appropriate indicators, which are indicatively strongly attached within their subsequent specific declarations minted directly at these gifted students and their God-given right to equal education. Thus promoted, as well as desirably presented, to be consolidated in accordance with the same principled statutes as to what their counterpart receives, hereby referring to the special education law’s statutory directives within Norwegian schools regarding student base recipients of special education.

Summed up, an explicit repeal of targeted legislation must be clarified on a point-by-point basis in the Education Act, where scholastic clearing implicators are given with the applicable indicative ratifications regarding; subject material, earmarked for state support by newly acquired competent pedagogical personnel who in turn can carry out targeted pedagogical activities, by and for gifted pupils in Norwegian schools with the assurance of equal education by «all» students hereby enshrined in the Norwegian Education Act.

Olsen: Personally, I believe that broader testing of all the pupils (not just of the “troublemakers”) and following up on the results would be an improvement. Sure, it would require more resources initially but I think it would pay off eventually.

Jacobsen: How does Mensa Norway deal with these issues?

Haereid: Eivind is the best man to answer this.

Jørgensen: This is best answered by Mr Olsen.

Olsen: We have our gifted children resource group that are working on this. As I mentioned previously, we’ve sent answers on a hearing regarding a suggested new law for education. And we have initiated a process to bring more information about gifted children to the schools and teachers, with one major point being that they shouldn’t assume that every gifted child will be fine on their own, “after all, they’re gifted so they’ll figure it out by themselves”.

Jacobsen: What are the age limits and provisions for the youngest members of Mensa Norway?

Haereid: Eivind…

Jørgensen: Do not know.

Olsen: The only qualifications needed to become a member initially is to have taken a valid intelligence test showing them to be in the top 2 %, and to pay the membership fee. There are no other eligibility requirements, such as age limits. That being said, we don’t have a very large percentage of non-adult members. This gives us the “chicken and egg”-problem; it can be tricky to provide for the social aspect when there’s not that many members in your own age group. There are other organisations that are focusing more on providing a social environment for the gifted children, such as Lykkelige Barn (“Happy children”, https://www.lykkeligebarn.no/). We’re more than happy to inform people about them, even if we’re not formally affiliated with them.

Jacobsen: What is the upper limit of the measurements of the Mensa Norway proctored and accepted tests, so the range of scores with the appropriate standard deviation?

Haereid: I don’t know.

Jørgensen: Again best answered by the Mensa Norway leader.

Olsen: The proctored test we provide has an upper limit of “IQ 135 or higher, at SD 15”. This is sufficient for our use, and for what most people would need. As for the other accepted tests: it depends. There are several, but we don’t have a complete list. Accepting (or not) external tests is the prerogative of our test psychologist.

I believe the normal WISC and WAIS tests go up to 160, with SD 15 as well.

Jacobsen: How can Mensa Norway and the high-range test community coordinate or work together more in some early steps of cooperation if not done at this time?

Haereid: My impression is that Mensa Norway is skeptical to this environment, not at least because they don’t rely on the authenticity of the tests, the norms, if the testees cooperate with someone and so on. It’s a homage to the cemented psychometric accepted tools, and a corresponding contempt for tests aspiring to measure intelligence, e.g. the amateur tests made by people who, some of them, scores among the highest on Mensa-accepted tests (like CFIT and WAIS).

One step is to create stricter IQ-norms and tests in the HR-environment. That could be done by constituting a leadership, an instance inside HR that put stars, like Michelin, on tests concerning their validity and reliability, and establishing common norms on those best tests (let’s say with 1, 2 or 3 stars). Then we could exclude the bad tests and every norm made by single creators.

A second step is to evolve some kind of control as to untimed tests. I think these tests are valuable because they measure something more than the timed “easy” ones. All proctored and accepted tests are timed. IQexams.net is a place that strives for something like this; they combine timed and untimed tests, and stretch for uniform norms.

I think a cooperation would be groundbreaking, and a step towards acceptance of more types of IQ-tests aiming to measure intelligence. Maybe the psychometricians, the psychologists, would disagree, because of the so far unstable construction of the HR-tests. But I think such a cooperation could benefit the whole IQ-environment in the long run.

Jørgensen: In the hope of experiencing some kind of early coexistence between Mensa Norway and the high-range community. Then a more sober lying policy must be in place first according to high-range communities within, whereby the implementations of body’s intentions depend on creating stability, as well as the correctness of their individual-based leading figurants with subsequent targeted infinites.

Only when this is in place, then one can look over to the “other” side to put it that way, in the sense of being beyond one`s own statute. The engraving species functional tasks are then understood out of its prominent being, where entrusted to its declaring mandate that a possible cooperation can be produced according to its organist functionalists consisting constructs.

Olsen: That’s a difficult question to answer, as there doesn’t really seem to be much of an active high-range IQ community in Norway. Perhaps the best suggestion I can give is the obvious one: join Mensa Norway, and put in some effort in the areas you wish. We’re more than happy to support initiatives that align with our constitutional goals.

Jacobsen: What seem like some of the barriers to the coordination and cooperation of the high-range communities with Mensa International or Mensa Norway, in particular, if taking into account many members of the high-range communities remain members of Mensa International via local or national representatives or chapters?

Haereid: Attaining more mutual respect. To gain respect you have to listen and look. And the first issue is as mentioned about the tests’ credibility.

Jørgensen: Well the foremost barrier concepts between their polarized thiogramic discrepancy hereby understood as Mensa International on one side, and the high-range communities on the other side. Will by that, start by addressing the explicitly construct with regards to their metronome autocratic forums, whereby it is presented within a presumed alienated statute surrounded by its self-exalted status to which the contaminating paradox is implied. The assessment of its legislative conditions of one’s identity is therefore produced through the consideration of its leading discrepancy consequently as a basis for the question formulated constructs. What does this mean, well simply explained, one must first clarify the grounds of factualization by the extent of which a common unionization is indeed feasible.

Secondly, hereby promotively understood by and for the leading homonymous fortifications and if it can again be proven realizable through a unification of the pole oriented structures regarding the conglomerate respectalizing and their processes, hereby promoted through their tentative extracts as to a possible positive outcome of respectable unionization between Mensa International and the high-range community. As for the outcome of unification of these polarized opponents, well one can only hope for a positive result in the end.

Olsen: For Norway, I think the problem is as mentioned in the previous answer: there just doesn’t seem to be any active high-range community here outside of Mensa Norway. If one such community were to exist, I might have had a more informative answer. As for the international scene, I don’t know whether there has been attempts at contact or why that didn’t come to fruition.

Jacobsen: What would make the consideration of the high-range community more serious within the regular mainstream testing community of Mensa International and others? How could Norway be a leader in this?

Haereid: Creating a leadership, common norms, “Michelin” stars on tests depending of factors that make a test as best as possible, timed or untimed. One problem is that “everyone” creates tests, and make norms, and there are no or just a little supervision or control. The statistical measures are not sufficient. But there are huge differences between the tests, and some authors are more into psychometrics than others. There should be some kind of qualification mark on the tests.

I think the Swedish guy Hans Sjöberg has started a good job here (creator of IQExams.net). The HR community has to establish some common rules, and in cooperation with Mensa or professional psychometricians that want and believe in a future HR-environment with more serious tests gathered under an umbrella.

Jørgensen: Firstly, I guess that from Mensa International point of view with reference of recognition of its overall standard towards the high-range community, is hereby executive exemplary shown accordingly by the fact that the high-range communities is not perceived as a matter of nonsense, but could rather be considered hereby understood as a type of «social camaraderie», whereby means through common interests can lift the impletory impressions outwardly for the common good.

This can only be done by clarifying the «awareness of responsibility” by the high-range communities’ own standards through the equality of a uniform expression brought forward out of respect by one’s own reformatted forum. Only if this proves to be feasible, then the road can be laid further, where mutual understanding and recognition receive the necessary main focus that in turn may seem like the foundation of a hereby understood unison format.

Secondly, regarding Mensa Norway’s possibilities of lead a conglomerate of different online communities towards a conciliatory unison forum. Well if one can hereby look at the stamp of professionalism at its central core, with the understandable purpose of agreeing on common political values, where mutual respect, test correlations and their subsequent implicit functions fulfilled by allowing itself to come into play. Furthermore, to create a new platform that can also act as an intermediary between Mensa International and the high-range community, whereby the best of both worlds can create a new foundation that in turn can be distributed back outwards onto both sides by reasons as to strengthen the grassroots movement by preeminent purpose as to recruit on further, then we will bear witness of the proper consolidation.

Olsen: I’m not sure. We can’t make use of / accept the various high-range IQ tests until they’re accepted by our test psychologists (both nationally and internationally), and that’s probably not going to happen without a solid foundation, proper norming, etc.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1]  Erik Haereid has been a member of Mensa since 2013, and is among the top scorers on several of the most credible IQ-tests in the unstandardized HRT-environment. He is listed in the World Genius Directory. He is also a member of several other high IQ Societies.

Erik, born in 1963, grew up in OsloNorway, in a middle class home at Grefsen nearby the forest, and started early running and cross country skiing. After finishing schools he studied mathematics, statistics and actuarial science at the University of Oslo. One of his first glimpses of math-skills appeared after he got a perfect score as the only student on a five hour math exam in high school.

He did his military duty in His Majesty The King’s Guard (Drilltroppen)).

Impatient as he is, he couldn’t sit still and only studying, so among many things he worked as a freelance journalist in a small news agency. In that period, he did some environmental volunteerism with Norges Naturvernforbund (Norwegian Society for the Conservation of Nature), where he was an activist, freelance journalist and arranged ‘Sykkeldagen i Oslo’ twice (1989 and 1990) as well as environmental issues lectures. He also wrote some crime short stories in A-Magasinet (Aftenposten (one of the main newspapers in Norway), the same paper where he earned his runner up (second place) in a nationwide writing contest in 1985. He also wrote several articles in different newspapers, magazines and so on in the 1980s and early 1990s.

He earned an M.Sc. degree in Statistics and Actuarial Sciences in 1991, and worked as an actuary novice/actuary from 1987 to 1995 in several Norwegian Insurance companies. He was the Academic Director (1998-2000) of insurance at the BI Norwegian Business School (1998-2000), Manager (1997-1998) of business insurance, life insurance, and pensions and formerly Actuary (1996-1997) at Nordea in Oslo Area, Norway, a self-employed Actuary Consultant (1996-1997), an Insurance Broker (1995-1996) at Assurance Centeret, Actuary (1991-1995) at Alfa Livsforsikring, novice Actuary (1987-1990) at UNI Forsikring.

In 1989 he worked in a project in Dallas with a Texas computer company for a month incorporating a Norwegian pension product into a data system. Erik is specialized in life insurance and pensions, both private and business insurances. From 1991 to 1995 he was a main part of developing new life insurance saving products adapted to bank business (Sparebanken NOR), and he developed the mathematics behind the premiums and premium reserves.

He has industry experience in accounting, insurance, and insurance as a broker. He writes in his IQ-blog the online newspaper Nettavisen. He has personal interests among other things in history, philosophy and social psychology.

In 1995, he moved to Aalborg in Denmark because of a Danish girl he met. He worked as an insurance broker for one year, and took advantage of this experience later when he developed his own consultant company.

In Aalborg, he taught himself some programming (Visual Basic), and developed an insurance calculation software program which he sold to a Norwegian Insurance Company. After moving to Oslo with his girlfriend, he was hired as consultant by the same company to a project that lasted one year.

After this, he became the Manager of business insurance in the insurance company Norske Liv. At that time he had developed and nurtured his idea of establishing an actuarial consulting company, and he did this after some years on a full-time basis with his actuarial colleague. In the beginning, the company was small. He had to gain money, and worked for almost two years as an Academic Director of insurance at the BI Norwegian Business School.

Then the consultant company started to grow, and he quitted BI and used his full time in NIA (Nordic Insurance Administration). This was in 1998/99, and he has been there since.

NIA provides actuarial consulting services within the pension and life insurance area, especially towards the business market. They was one of the leading actuarial consulting companies in Norway through many years when Defined Benefit Pension Plans were on its peak and companies needed evaluations and calculations concerning their pension schemes and accountings. With the less complex, and cheaper, Defined Contribution Pension Plans entering Norway the last 10-15 years, the need of actuaries is less concerning business pension schemes.

Erik’s book from 2011, Benektelse og Verdighet, contains some thoughts about our superficial, often discriminating societies, where the virtue seems to be egocentrism without thoughts about the whole. Empathy is lacking, and existential division into “us” and “them” is a mental challenge with major consequences. One of the obstacles is when people with power – mind, scientific, money, political, popularity – defend this kind of mind as “necessary” and “survival of the fittest” without understanding that such thoughts make the democracies much more volatile and threatened. When people do not understand the genesis of extreme violence like school killings, suicide or sociopathy, asking “how can this happen?” repeatedly, one can wonder how smart man really is. The responsibility is not limited to let’s say the parents. The responsibility is everyone’s. The day we can survive, mentally, being honest about our lives and existence, we will take huge leaps into the future of mankind.

[2] Tor Arne Jørgensen is a member of 50+ high IQ societies, including World Genius Directory, NOUS High IQ Society, 6N High IQ Society just to name a few. He has several IQ scores above 160+ sd15 among high range tests like Gift/Gene Verbal, Gift/Gene Numerical of Iakovos Koukas and Lexiq of Soulios.

Tor Arne was also in 2019, nominated for the World Genius Directory 2019 Genius of the Year – Europe. He is the only Norwegian to ever have achieved this honor. He has also been a contributor to the Genius Journal Logicon, in addition to being the creater of toriqtests.com, where he is the designer of now eleven HR-tests of both verbal/numerical varient.

His further interests are related to intelligence, creativity, education developing regarding gifted students. Tor Arne has an bachelor`s degree in history and a degree in Practical education, he works as a teacher within the following subjects: History, Religion, and Social Studies.

[3] Eivind Olsen is the current chair of Mensa Norway. He has scored “135 or higher” (SD15) on the test used by Mensa Norway. He has also previously been tested with WISC-R and Raven’s. He recently took the MOCA test and aced it. When he’s not busy herding cats, he works in IT. He sometimes spends time with family and friends.

Eivind Olsen is a member of Mensa Norway since 2014, having filled various roles since then (chair of Mensa Bergen regional group, national test coordinator, deputy board member, and now chair).

He was born in Bergen, Norway, in 1976, but has lived in a few other places in Norway, including military service in the far north of the country.

Since he got bored at school and didn’t have any real idea what he wanted to do, he took vocational school where he studied electronics repair. He has worked in a different field ever since (IT operations).

He is currently residing in Bergen, Norway, with his significant other, 2+2 offspring, 2 cats and a turtle.

[4] Individual Publication Date: March 15, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/norway-3; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Michael Baker on Blue Collar Labour, Geniuses, Deism, Collective Intelligence, and His Dog: Member, CIVIQ Society (1)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/03/15

Abstract

Michael Baker is a Member of the CivIQ Society, SPIQR, EPIDA, ISI-S, Logiq, IQuadrivium, EPIQ, and IIS. He has sat on numerous executive boards, given more than 100 educational presentations and keynotes, represented the Pennsylvania Department of Education in sharing updates on the Classrooms for the Future program to the US Congress, and been recognized by the National School Board Association as a 20 to Watch in Education. He discusses: growing up; a sense of an extended self; the family background; the experience with peers and schoolmates; some professional certifications; the purpose of intelligence tests; high intelligence discovered; the extreme reactions to and treatment of geniuses; the greatest geniuses in history; a genius from a profoundly intelligent person; profound intelligence necessary for genius; work experiences and jobs; particular job path; the gifted and geniuses; God; science; the tests taken and scores earned (with standard deviations); the range of the scores; ethical philosophy; social philosophy; economic philosophy; political philosophy; metaphysics; philosophical system; meaning in life; meaning externally derived, internally generated; an afterlife; the mystery and transience of life; and love.

Keywords: blue-collar labour, CivIQ Society, collective intelligence, deism, EPIDA, EPIQ, IIS, Iquadrivium, ISI-S, Logiq, Michael Baker, SPIQR.

Conversation with Michael Baker on Blue Collar Labour, Geniuses, Deism, Collective Intelligence, and His Dog: Member, CIVIQ Society (1)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: When you were growing up, what were some of the prominent family stories being told over time?

Michael Baker[1],[2]*: Growing up, my family was made up of steelworkers, construction workers, coal miners, and laborers.  I was drilled on the idea of working smart not hard.  My family didn’t hide their faults and frequently modeled how to be a better person.  All of my family encouraged me to be something different.  

Jacobsen: Have these stories helped provide a sense of an extended self or a sense of the family legacy? 

Baker: Each day, I follow in the footsteps of my family’s encouragement.  Although far from perfect, I hope to set an example for the next generation.  This is what gives me purpose. 

Jacobsen: What was the family background, e.g., geography, culture, language, and religion or lack thereof?

Baker:  I spent some of my youth in the middle class and another in poverty.  The plight of the steel mills in Western Pennsylvania impacted a lot of local families in this way.  We were not an academically focused family, but curious and happy.  Religion never played a true role in my upbringing.  Although I’ve always felt myself a deist, formal religion was never ingrained in me. 

Jacobsen: How was the experience with peers and schoolmates as a child and an adolescent?

Baker: I was quiet but curious.  I would have never stood out.  I think I was in second grade when we were first given a large group aptitude test.  Although I was an amazingly normal student, the school took interest in me after receiving my score.  I was placed in the advanced classes and started to be exposed to a lot of new experiences.  I found my best friends through these classes.  My classmates were deep and knew so much more than me.  Because we were a small school, I stayed with most of the dozen or fewer students throughout high school.  My friends didn’t ask if I would go to college.  They asked what I was planning on majoring in and where would I go.  Being from a family that didn’t have any previous college students, my peers gave me the drive to chase a dream I didn’t know I had.  I am proof that your circle of friends can have a greater impact on your life than even your family. 

Jacobsen: What have been some professional certifications, qualifications, and trainings earned by you?

Baker: I have undergraduate degrees in Elementary and Early Childhood Education and  a minor in Music with emphases in Math and Science.  I received my Master’s Degree in Curriculum and Technology and just recently I finished some post-graduate work in Computational Thinking.  

Jacobsen: What is the purpose of intelligence tests to you?

Baker: They gave me opportunities when nobody seemed to notice me.  

Jacobsen: When was high intelligence discovered for you?

Baker: In my youth, the only real test I took was a group test called the OLSAT.  I think I was in 7th grade.  I missed 1 on the test and outscored all of the gifted students.  When I first started college, I intended to be an engineer.  I took an aptitude test on mechanical ability and was one of a handful of students who receive the 99th percentile.  When I took my first psychology course, our professor gave us the Ravens Progressive Matrices test and he told me privately I received the highest score he has ever had in his classes.  To this day, I have no idea what ‘my number’ really is.  I know I have some natural talents, but am ok with the mystery of my ranking!

Jacobsen: When you think of the ways in which the geniuses of the past have either been mocked, vilified, and condemned if not killed, or praised, flattered, platformed, and revered, what seems like the reason for the extreme reactions to and treatment of geniuses? Many alive today seem camera shy – many, not all.

Baker: Intellect is only one piece of the equation.  Social and emotional intelligence help to harness support and collective intelligence.  Many people smarter than me can lack humility and openness to different ideas.  I try to categorize problems into quantitative and qualitative buckets.  In much of science and mathematics, quantitative solutions can be expressed in a binary way.  In the humanities and society, we see more qualitative problems.  The solutions can be infinite and require relationships, empathy, and popularity to ignite the wisdom of the crowds.  Being smart will always make a larger impact when you are likable.  Innovations only need to be driven by quantitative solutions. 

Jacobsen: Who seems like the greatest geniuses in history to you?

Baker: People like Rosa Parks, Grace Hopper, Upton Sinclair, or anyone else that breaks the functional fixedness society establishes over time.  They are people that conquer qualitatively problems with lasting impact. 

Jacobsen: What differentiates a genius from a profoundly intelligent person?

Baker: A genius changes the world and leaves his/her footprints for future generations to follow. 

Jacobsen: Is profound intelligence necessary for genius?

Baker: No.  Henry Ford was considered to have average intelligence and Andy Worhol was considered dull.  The very idea the reader knows these names speak volumes about their impact. 

Jacobsen: What have been some work experiences and jobs held by you?

Baker: For the majority of my work career, I have had the honor to teach elementary students.  First computers and about 6 years ago, I began teaching STEM.  As a youth, I worked in construction, the steel industry, labor, and a number of side jobs.  The entire time, my family reminded me these were only temporary until I started my career. 

Jacobsen: Why pursue this particular job path?

Baker: You have the greatest impact as a teacher on younger students.  

Jacobsen: What are some of the more important aspects of the idea of the gifted and geniuses? Those myths pervade the cultures of the world. What are those myths? What truths dispel them?

Baker: The first myth would be that they are easy to spot.  I have grown to understand the dunning–kruger effect.  Many people focus attention on confidence and accolades when deciding whom to place their trust.  I have found passion and empathy to better ingredients in the crowd I prefer to follow.  

Jacobsen: Any thoughts on the God concept or gods idea and philosophy, theology, and religion?

BakerI feel comfortable in calling myself a deist.  If I am wrong, I chalk that up to my human imperfection.  I do respect the importance of all religions.  In many ways, religion solves a lot of qualitative problems caused when groups lack faith.  

Jacobsen: How much does science play into the worldview for you?

BakerScience is life.  I understand so little but can learn so much from just listening to those that are curious.  

Jacobsen: What have been some of the tests taken and scores earned (with standard deviations) for you?

BakerMy lowest score came in second grade on the Stanford Ability Test 127.  This is the test that changed my trajectory in life.  The OLSAT was 143.  The Ravens was 150+.  I really enjoy the tests created by Ivan Ivec and have several of my performances listed on his site.  My favorite test I ever took was the SLSE by Jonathan Wai.  I felt my 150+ score was an accomplishment.  Although I don’t share my results with anyone in my direct life, I enjoy seeing my ability to push myself and think deeper.  

Jacobsen: What is the range of the scores for you? The scores earned on alternative intelligence tests tend to produce a wide smattering of data points rather than clusters, typically.

BakerSince college, I typically range between 147-157 on tests I take.

Jacobsen: What ethical philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Baker: The Golden Rule exists in almost every religion for a reason.  Collective intelligence is proven to be the most consistent path to long-term success.  This is why my philosophy is to be nice and try to empathize with everyone you meet.  

Jacobsen: What social philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Baker: Concepts like the Diffusion of Innovation and the Tragedy of the Commons have been very useful in understanding why some things succeed while others fail.  

Jacobsen: What economic philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Baker: Money doesn’t really exist.  All economies are based on trust and faith.  Be careful when trust and faith are fractured.  

Jacobsen: What political philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?  

Baker: e pluribus unum – Out of many one.  In the US, our founding fathers understood the importance of group decisions and diversity of power.  I’m not so sure the US always remembers its roots.  This concerns me for the future.  

Jacobsen: What metaphysics makes some sense to you, even the most workable sense to you?

Baker: Things are the way they are until we say otherwise.  =)

Jacobsen: What worldview-encompassing philosophical system makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Baker: I’ve always been a believer in collective intelligence.  This concept only works when you have leadership that can focus on the qualitative needs of the group without personal gain or bias.  Movements that promote elitism gather strong support from the group but fail to spread beyond the entitled.  Our future is together.  This would be the antithesis of an Orwellian view.  A society that promotes every individual’s purpose will always be stronger than a group that attempts to define how each person should live their lives. 

Jacobsen: What provides meaning in life for you?

Baker: Helping others

Jacobsen: Is meaning externally derived, internally generated, both, or something else?

Baker: I guess I enjoy the Oxytocin boost, but I like to think I make the world a little better each day.

Jacobsen: Do you believe in an afterlife? If so, why, and what form? If not, why not?

Baker: I don’t think life is a line, line segment, or ray in time.  You focus on what you can at each moment and work towards goals for the future.  Neural pruning does a nice job of helping us forget and re-invent the past.  I guess the afterlife is created from the waves you make that help carry the future voyagers forward on this pale blue dot.  

Jacobsen: What do you make of the mystery and transience of life?

Baker: It’s a story you read and write as you go.  There is always something exciting only a page away!  

Jacobsen: What is love to you? 

Baker: My family – including my dog.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Member, CivIQ Society; Member, SPIQR; Member, EPIDA; Member, ISI-S; Member, Logiq; Member, IQuadrivium; Member, EPIQ; Member, IIS.

[2] Individual Publication Date: March 15, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/baker-1; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Bob Williams on Davide Piffer, Francis Galton, Hans Eysenck, Arthur Jensen, Richard Haier and Rex Jung, Scientists and Artists, Howard Gardner, Robert Sternberg, and Charles Spearman: Retired Nuclear Physicist (3)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/03/15

Abstract

Bob Williams is a Member of the Triple Nine Society, Mensa International, and the International Society for Philosophical Enquiry. He discusses: the more evidenced theories of creativity similar to g or general intelligence as the majority position of researchers in the field of general intelligence; theories of genius; the main figures in these areas of creativity and genius connected to the research on g; personality differences between scientists and artists; conscientiousness; the ability to think; the expected probability of genius at higher and higher cognitive rarities; Howard Gardner; Robert Sternberg; the works of Arthur Jensen building on Charles Spearman; and the questions remaining about genius.

Keywords: Arthur Jensen, Bob Williams, Charles Spearman, creativity, Davide Piffer, Francis Galton, g, general intelligence, genius, Hans Eysenck, Howard Gardner, Rex Jung, Ricard Haier, Robert Sternberg.

Conversation with Bob Williams on Davide Piffer, Francis Galton, Hans Eysenck, Arthur Jensen, Richard Haier and Rex Jung, Scientists and Artists, Howard Gardner, Robert Sternberg, and Charles Spearman: Retired Nuclear Physicist (3)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Now, I want to touch on another orbiting topic to intelligence research, which comes from this notion of genius. What are some of the more evidenced theories of creativity similar to g or general intelligence as the majority position of researchers in the field of general intelligence?

Bob Williams[1],[2]*: The evidence lies primarily in neurology. Creativity measurements are not as informative as intelligence measures. We understand g well and have a massive amount of research to support the structure of intelligence, g, the underlying neurology, and finally the genetics picture is coming together. Even in personality, there is a general factor, but if a general factor has emerged from studies of creativity, I have not seen it. Davide Piffer wrote a paper that specifically addressed the question of a general factor of creativity. He made a convincing argument that aspects of creativity were distinct at the descriptive and neurological levels and would, therefore, be unlikely to yield a general factor. Piffer also presented good criticisms of various past studies, particularly with regard to the construct validity of various creativity tests.

Part of the problem is that much of the literature relating creativity and intelligence preceded latent variable analysis. Another part is that creativity is inherently more difficult to measure than intelligence. In intelligence research, we can easily test for the g loading of a category of test items and see if the loading is high enough to justify its use in a battery of test items, such as an IQ test. In creativity measures, the things being measured are sometimes quite removed from the thing we implicitly understand as creativity. 

The other aspect of creativity measures is that people do not have the same degree of agreement as to how a creative response should be graded. For example, one common test of creativity is the alternate uses test, in which a person is asked to list as many alternate uses for a common object (brick, paperclip, etc.) as possible in a short period of time. This is essentially a test of fluency (for example, list words beginning with the letter H). Even when used directly (without grading of individual responses) there is a claimed connection between fluency and creativity.  When the responses are graded by judges, according to the level of creativity, the results are claimed to be better. It is obvious that this sort of test is not a close match with the things we expect are happening when a person is exhibiting creative output.

The neurology of creativity is where I see real explanatory results. For example, creative brains should show these:

  • The inhibitory function is low or can be made low by the executive function. When the brain has a low inhibitory function, it rejects fewer stimuli, creating opportunities for remote associations. While this is good for creative output, it is opposite of the best function for problem solving.
  • Some brains presumably have direct connectivity between parts that are usually combined only by passing through multiple nodes. This also increases the opportunity for unrelated ideas or knowledge to become associated.
  • The brain is able to enter the default mode network (DMN) and generate ideas there. This is the network most associated with creativity.
  • Leaky attention (the opposite of maintaining focus) relates to the inhibitory function.
  • The ability to create remote associations relates to all of the creativity factors.

These brain characteristics tell us that, like intelligence, creativity depends on special properties of the brain. Curiously, these properties seem to sometimes be opposite to those we associate with high intelligence. While we do not have a parallel between intelligence and creativity, in the general factor sense, we do have a set of brain features that have a direct impact on creative output.

Jacobsen: Similarly, creative achievement at the highest levels seems to more often than not earn the title of “genius,” wherein minor creative acts and high intelligence do not. In that, a true act of genius appears to require extremes of creativity and of general intelligence. Both of these rare alone, even rarer together at the same levels. What theories of genius appear the most substantiated now?

Williams: Yes. The enigma is how these traits can sometimes all happen in one brain. The various models of genius that I have seen seem to be relatively unchanged over time, suggesting to me that we have not found measurements that lead us to any one over the others. The various models, however, are not that different and are qualitatively in agreement with the things that are seen in Genius. We have good descriptions of geniuses from the distant past that seem consistent with more recent observations, but we do not have much, if anything, in the way of brain studies because the technology to image brains has only been available for a few decades.

Sir Francis Galton listed intelligence, zeal, and persistence. Another component is probably creativity.

Hans Eysenck believed that both traits Neurosis and Psychoticism had to be elevated in true genius. Obviously if either trait is overly expressed, the individual will be destroyed and not achieve enormous feats of creative genius. When N and P are somewhat elevated they positively impact the individual–at least if he is really a genius. For example, P may cause a person to be seen as aggressive, cold, egocentric, impersonal, impulsive, antisocial, unempathic, tough-minded, and creative… not a pretty picture in terms of attractive personality. This, however, is precisely what we read in the descriptions of the great geniuses of all time.

Arthur Jensen believed that genius is the product of high ability x high productivity x high creativity.

ability = g = efficiency of information processing

productivity = endogenous cortical stimulation

creativity = trait psychoticism

Jacobsen: Who are the main figures in these areas of creativity and genius connected to the research on g?

Williams: The three above (Galton, Eysenck, and Jensen) wrote a good bit about genius and some about creativity. Dean Keith Simonton edited the Handbook of Genius and Scientific genius: A psychology of science. I would classify him as more of an author than researcher.

Much of what we have in the literature on genius is descriptive, due to the scarcity of people to study and their distribution over hundreds of years. In Human Accomplishment: The Pursuit of Excellence in the Arts and Sciences 800 B.C. to 1950, Charles Murray identified 4002 people as having extraordinary eminence. This is a very reasonable list of genius over the long time range

he covered. We are left with a better understanding of what they accomplished than of how they did it. Needless to say, we have no neurological studies of these people.

Today we have researchers who study both intelligence and creativity. The two at the top of my list are neurologists Richard Haier and Rex Jung. Their work resulted in the P-FIT model (described in my second set of questions) and has expanded into a wide range of intelligence and creativity topics. It is my belief that neurological research is most likely to shed additional light on the understanding of what rare conditions produce genius. In the more distant future, geneticists may find ways to understand the underlying genetic traits in true genius.

The neurological characteristics that have been associated with high creativity (see previous answer) include a lowered inhibitory function and long mean path length (networks). Both of these are opposite to the desirable traits for high intelligence. The inhibitory function can be dulled by alcohol or other drugs, precisely not what you want to do before taking a calculus test.  Long mean path length is associated with poor network connectivity, possibly related to low tissue integrity (measured by fractional anisotropy) or with lower numbers of connections to hubs. I have not seen anything that attempts to explain how genius incorporates both high intelligence and high creativity. There is, however, the possibility that these rare people have an ability to achieve divergent thinking and remote associations, without the biological factors just mentioned. Piffer has also argued that the focus on divergent thinking may be overemphasized and the association of creativity with intelligence underappreciated. 

Jacobsen: What explains some of these personality differences between scientists and artists mentioned in (1)?

Williams: There seems to be numerous domain specific traits, including personality, at work. I doubt that anyone would confuse an artist with an engineer when first meeting them. One personality trait that relates to creativity is Conscientiousness–low for artists and higher for scientists. Trait Openness is the only Big Five trait that relates to intelligence, but this trait also correlates positively with creativity. This suggests that intelligence is not the minor factor claimed by some researchers.

One aspect of creative professions is that they show elevated levels of alcoholism, impacting from 20% to 60% of each. The highest is for actors.

Openness is positively correlated with creative achievement in the arts, but curiously does not predict working memory capacity. Among scientists, intellect is predictive of WMC and achievement (as I would expect). In the long and detailed book The Cambridge Handbook of the Neuroscience of Creativity (2018) Rex E. Jung (Editor), Oshin Vartanian (Editor), there is a discussion of how openness and intellect relate to brain regions. As with the many studies of intelligence factors in the brain structure (and properties), neuroscience has produced similar findings for creativity. There are large numbers of structures and measures to consider, but the thing that is impressive is the frequency with which the results are opposite for creativity and intelligence; tissue integrity is one example (high integrity for intelligence, low integrity for creativity). [Tissue integrity is measured by fractional anisotropy. A high FA indicates less radial diffusivity (loss).]

Jacobsen: Does conscientiousness, whether artists or scientists, remain one of the most important traits for the achievement of a true act of genius – to follow-through despite seemingly impossible odds in the moment?

Williams: There is a big story hidden in follow-through and it seems to me to be a flaw in some of the more traditional discussions about creativity. When researchers administer a test, such as a divergent thinking exercise, they are often measuring fluency and then arguing that fluency is related to creativity. The problem is that this measure is about quantity and is completely disconnected from achievement, production, and end result. We see Michelangelo as a genius, not because he imagined the Sistine Chapel ceiling, but because it imagined AND produced it and not that he imagined the David, but because he sculpted the statue. This illustrates the difficulty of dealing with discussions and measures of creativity… the definitions are messy and can be misleading and the measures are often distant from the construct we want to measure.

Yes, Conscientiousness measured as a trait applies to acts of creativity, but in opposite directions for intelligence and creativity. We can see this without measuring creativity directly by simply measuring personality for artists and scientists. Despite the finding that it is low for artists. [I take the finding to be correct from Jung and Vartanian previously cited.]

Jacobsen: Between Mensa International, Intertel, the Triple Nine Society, the Prometheus Society, and the Mega Society, or between the escalating claimed cognitive rarities, what should one expect in regards to the ability to think of the cognitive floor of the membership?

Williams: Since these groups are self-selected, they tend to be atypical of the entry thresholds they represent. One big difference between membership in these is that people who have not been successful in education, profession, and personal relationships seem to be more attracted to them, possibly as a means of signaling their worth, despite failures. My observation from my in-person participation in the groups is that the majority of members are about what you would expect from a random sampling of people above the admission levels, but there remains a disproportionate

number of people who have not shown life success and developed appropriate interpersonal skills. In Mensa, and only that group, I noticed a significant number of morbidly obese members. 

Jensen wrote:

I received a letter from someone I had never met, though I knew he was an eminent professor of biophysics. He had read something I wrote concerning IQ as a predictor of achievement, but he was totally unaware of the present work. The coincidence is that my correspondent posed the very question that is central to my theme. He wrote:

I have felt for a long time that IQ , however defined, is only loosely related to mental achievement. Over the years I have bumped into a fair number of MENSA people. As a group, they seem to be dilettantes seeking titillation but seem unable to think critically or deeply. They have a lot of motivation for intellectual play but little for doing anything worthwhile. One gets the feeling that brains were wasted on them. So, what is it that makes an intelligently productive person?

This is not an uncommon observation, and I have even heard it expressed by members of MENSA. It is one of their self-perceived problems, one for which some have offered theories or rationalizations. The most typical is that they are so gifted that too many subjects attract their intellectual interest and they can never commit themselves to any particular interest. It could also be that individuals drawn toward membership in MENSA are a selective subset of the gifted population, individuals lacking in focus. After all, most highly gifted individuals do not join MENSA. [Intellectual Talent : Psychometric and Social Issues (1997), edited by Camilla Persson Benbow & David Lubinski] {My underline added.}

I only belonged to Intertel for 3-4 years, but I went to their annual gatherings every year until I gave up on them (simply due to inactivity in the journal, which lost contributions of new material). I did notice that when I was with the group, in person, there was a much greater maturity of discussion and sobriety than found in Mensa.

As the entrance requirement increases, I have found that there are more people who are interesting, competent in technical fields, and who have become long term friends.

Unfortunately, that increase is accompanied by the subset of obnoxious members setting new records for repulsiveness. I have not seen this same distribution of personalities in my work. As I explained in my first questions, my career was spent with mostly technical people (physics, engineering, and a few miscellaneous science fields). It may happen that the demands of both education and work in the nuclear reactor business acts as a personality filter, producing a different mix of people from those found in high IQ clubs. 

Jensen responded to a few text interviews from high IQ groups. His comments are worth reading, not only because of his prominence, but also for his style-choice of words:

Discussions on Genius and Intelligence Interview with Dr. Arthur Jensen. Mega Press, Eastport, New York

Arthur Jensen: Its hard to imagine how a group of high-IQ people with little else in common besides their IQ and probably differing in many other ways perhaps even more than a random sample of the population can do much to effect social change or carry out and large project with a unified aim.

An interview with Dr. Arthur Jensen by Steve Coy

Dr. Arthur Jensen: The interaction of ability level with interests and lifestyle confounds selection. I daresay you will find few Mensa or Mega members with few or no intellectual interests, for example, although there may be people out there in the population who are very bright but have few such interests. There is also self-selection at the top end. How many Nobel Prize winners, or members of the National Academy of Sciences are in any of the high IQ societies? I was struck by the fact that the Berkeley chapter of Mensa, with its many members, had only one member who was on the faculty of UC Berkeley, although I’m sure some large percentage of them could qualify if they wished to join. And I know a Nobel Prize winner who was invited to join Mensa, but he had no interest in it and declined the invitation. It has been my (untested) impression that if IQ and achievement could be correlated in the whole population, members of HI-IQ societies would be among those who tend to lower the correlation, falling below the regression line (of achievement regressed on IQ). Most conventional IQ tests have a general knowledge-achievement component which makes the test an amalgam of both ability and achievement and particularly skews the high end of the IQ distribution. 

Jacobsen: Have there been efforts to calculate the expected probability of genius at higher and higher cognitive rarities?

Williams: In the numerous articles I have read about genius, I have not encountered an estimate of the probability of a person being born with the rare combination of genes that lead to genius. There are some obvious problems. One is defining where to draw the line between genius and not genius. As long as you are dealing with the most distinguished individuals (at the level of Einstein, Bach, and Picasso) there is no problem. But when you want to count, who do you count and who do you skip? Perhaps the 4002 listed in Human Accomplishment is about as good as one can do, largely because they were identified by an objective and quantifiable method. [The worldwide number comes out to fewer than 1.5 per year.] Then things become quite muddy… we might argue that the production of genius has been a variable over time. There is reason to believe that mean intelligence (at least in developed nations) has been a variable. Dutton and Woodley discussed this in At Our Wits’ End: Why We’re Becoming Less Intelligent. They also

speculated that we are producing fewer and fewer geniuses, due mostly to the decline in mean intelligence, and that this will have a profound impact on the progression of mankind as it relates to innovation. My personal feeling is that this analysis may be overstated because we have entered a new paradigm, based on powerful computer resources and artificial intelligence that will undoubtedly change how people innovate and carry out cognitive tasks.

In the distant future, geneticists may be able to calculate the probability of a rare set of genetic variants appearing in a population. As of today, they have finally found 1,200 single nucleotide polymorphisms associated with intelligence, but these account for only about a 10% effect size.  It may be even more difficult to find the variants necessary for the other traits, making the problem overwhelming until a powerful new approach becomes available.

Jacobsen: Now, the next triplet tie to ideas proposed about intelligence (covered a bit in the previous two sessions) and genius as laid out above, how do the works of Howard Gardner attempt to address genius? How do these efforts succeed? How do they fail?

Williams: Gardner was interested in creativity and occasionally mentioned creativity in connection with genius. He may have produced significant works relating to genius, but they have not come to my attention. He did discuss the aspects of personality that are often associated with genius and which are well known to relate to the typical non-social and sometimes abrasive behaviors of the people we all know for their monumental works. He also wrote Creating Minds (1993) in which he did a detailed description of seven geniuses, each selected to exemplify one of his multiple intelligences. The irony of this is that his model is based on individual examples of what he claimed were each a different kind of intelligence, but he based his model on people well outside of the range of “normal,” while appealing to those normal people to accept his abnormal model. [The seven people selected: T. S. Eliot, Albert Einstein, Pablo Picasso, Igor Stravinsky, Martha Graham, Mahatma Gandhi, and Sigmund Freud.]

Gardner is in a category that is highly regarded by the general public and not by many serious intelligence researchers. The multiple intelligences model is apparently loved by those who see it as “fair.” Researchers know that there is nothing fair about Mother Nature.

Jacobsen: How do the works of Robert Sternberg attempt to address genius? How do these efforts succeed? How do they fail?

Williams: Unlike Gardner, Sternberg was more involved in matters relating to genius. He was, for example, the editor of the Handbook of Creativity (Cambridge), which included some discussion of genius. The problem is that, like Gardner, Sternberg had a personal invention on the line and was inclined to make that (the Triarchic Theory) the centerpiece of whatever he wrote. The theory was not sound, as demonstrated by Linda Gottfredson, so that carries over to how I see his comments. Per my prior comments, the net observations of genius from all sources remain descriptive and do not tell us much about the underlying genetics and neurology of genius. It’s a case of we know it when we see it, but we can’t explain it from the biological perspective.

Jacobsen: How do the works of Arthur Jensen building on Charles Spearman attempt to address genius? How do these efforts succeed? How do they fail?

Williams: Jensen’s comments on genius strike me as being as good as any that can be found. He believed that the necessary, but not sufficient traits combine in genius at maximum values and that they have a multiplicative effect. I bought the book Intellectual Talent : Psychometric and Social Issues (1997), edited by Camilla Persson Benbow & David Lubinski, just to read the last chapter by Jensen. He described genius as ability at the upper end of a J-curve, which can be thought of as a logarithmic increase. In Human Accomplishment, Murray also addressed the extreme nature of genius but called it the Lotka Curve. Both signify that almost all points relating to high achievement group together, while a few are so far from the rest that they exist in a stratospheric space.

Jacobsen: What are the questions remaining about genius? In particular, what are the unknown, though potentially somewhat known, relations between intelligence, personality, and creativity, and genius?

Williams:  We cannot describe or even effectively study the genius brain or genome. There simply are not enough such brains to find and explore. There also seems to be a lack of interest in this among neurologists who have the technology to probe a brain. The only person I know who has imaged various atypical high achievers is Roberto Colom. But the instances I am aware of relate to sports figures and some creative artists. I would most like to see someone do a comprehensive study of David Lynch, as an example of the most creative level of the arts (cinema). There are various Nobel laureates (physics and chemistry) who would seem to me to be examples of the top minds in science, but I don’t think they are being studied. One thing that concerns me about such a project is the age of the person being studied. I would think the best age would be in the 25 to 35 year old range because the brain is typically functioning at its best then. Would Lynch be too old? Most likely the effort that would be required for such a project would be unattractive to many researchers.

The limited information that we have about Einstein’s brain at least tells us that his brain was highly atypical, as compared to the brains that have been studied in modern times. It would be interesting to see if any of his special properties (brain width, elevated glial cell fraction, and a few Brodmann Area size anomalies) can be found in other people and whether they show special cognitive abilities.

The other thing that I consider to be not fully resolved is the relationship between intelligence and creativity. The measurements that produce small correlations were done by correlating such things as the alternate uses test against IQ. Related to the appropriateness of the measures is whether there is a difference between artistic creativity and scientific creativity. Both allow for exploration (try this, then that) but I think that scientific creativity has to be significantly related to knowledge and understanding of the thing being studied.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Retired Nuclear Physicist.

[2] Individual Publication Date: March 15, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/williams-3; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Antjuan Finch on Separation from Family, Christianity, Autism Spectrum, Leonardo Da Vinci, Jacob Barnett, CAI, and PDIT: Member, CIVIQ Society (2)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/03/15

Abstract

Antjuan Finch is the Author of After Genius: On Creativity and Its ConsequencesThe 3 Sides of Man, and Applied Theory. He created the Creative Attitudes Inventory (CAT) and the Public Domain Intelligence Test (PDIT). He discusses: separated from the larger family; a “heroic attitude”; the involvement in the Christian traditions and churches in Indianapolis; the autism spectrum; formal studies; experimental online tests at IQNAVI.net/IQexams.net; Jacob Barnett; geniuses go unrecognized; Leonardo da Vinci; the recent accomplishments; Creative Attitudes Inventory (V.1); Aberrant Salience (Unusual Thinking), Conscientiousness (discipline), and Polymathic Interests; statistics coming back for the test; Public Domain Intelligence Test (PDIT); updates on the statistical findings; strongest points in intelligence; and a universe with a self-testing function.

Keywords: Antjuan Finch, Charles Darwin, Christianity, CIVIQ Society, Creative Attitudes Inventory, intelligence, IQ, Jacob Barnett, Leonardo Da Vinci, Public Domain Intelligence Test.

Conversation with Antjuan Finch on Separation from Family, Christianity, Autism Spectrum, Leonardo Da Vinci, Jacob Barnett, CAI, and PDIT: Member, CIVIQ Society (2)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Why were you mother, brothers, and you separated from the larger family?

Antjuan Finch[1],[2]*: Largely, because my larger was to a sizable degree involved with drugs, crime, and other things that are best to keep away from children. Although, not everyone in my larger family was associated with these things.

Jacobsen: What is this sense of a “heroic attitude” for you?

Finch: I have the disposition to want to solve big problems, help people, or, save the world, in some sense. I think that these are heroic qualities.  

Jacobsen: How were your brothers perceiving the involvement in the Christian traditions and churches in Indianapolis?

Finch: Both of my full siblings have somewhat of a disdain for organized religions, at the moment. Although my older brother has still maintained some very spiritual beliefs and practices, I believe. The churches that we went to as kids had extremely long services, with no breaks and very intense, moralistic tirades. The situations really weren’t ideal for restless kids. 

Jacobsen: When were you placed on the autism spectrum?

Finch: I remember that my mom, when I was young, sometimes made comments about me being on the autism spectrum, but I don’t think that I was formally diagnosed as being so. I think that, in some ways, my intelligence might mask my autistic traits, and even allow me to compensate for them, in certain situations, which may make me less likely to receive a diagnosis, given that such a diagnosis requires significant impairments in functioning. For an example of how my intelligence may mask my autistic traits, the stilted and overly formal way of communicating that is common among autists, when combined with a wide vocabulary, and clear reasoning ability, may cause someone to appear as sophisticated instead of socially maldeveloped. 

Jacobsen: Out of “creative writing, psychometrics, astrophysics, and evolutionary biology,” what were the more interesting part of those individuated formal studies?

Finch: For creative writing, I was exposed to a lot of incredible literature that I likely never would have read otherwise. For evolutionary biology, it was interesting to see how much the field had developed over time; my autodidactic study in evolutionary theory, for the most, before then, had only involved works that Charles Darwin had written. 

Jacobsen: With further experimental online tests at IQNAVI.net/IQexams.net, did you find a community of other higher-scorers to converse and share stories?

Finch: Not really. While I ended up joining several high IQ societies, I never found gained much of a sense of community from any of them, and was hardly active in them.

Jacobsen: Where is Jacob Barnett now?

Finch: I’m not sure, he seems to have somewhat secluded from the public spotlight in recent years.

Jacobsen: Why do most geniuses go unrecognized, while, simultaneously, living in likely “squalor”? Any thoughts on the potential loss to humanity as a result?

Finch: I think that, in some ways, it may take a bit of genius to recognize one before they’ve been widely regarded as such. But to be more specific, obsessively producing extremely advanced work, creative or otherwise, can easily cause one to miss opportunities to develop the marketable skills and desirable traits which may be useful for becoming well known, and doing things other than what may be needed to just produce more and more creative work — but that may be a somewhat extreme example. Wealth has also historically been concentrated in very few hands, with much more people living in relatively impoverished states than otherwise. Given these notions, it can be inferred that prospective geniuses have been more likely to be born in, and stay in poverty than otherwise. Although, it does appear that, on occasion, a genius might become magnificently rich. 

Jacobsen: Why consider Leonardo da Vinci as the greatest genius in history? What was happening with this left-handed Italian gay man?

Finch: Before I answer your question, I must say that Leonardo da Vinci, in all likelihood, was asexual. I can’t imagine that even a gay man would make these statements: “Intellectual passion drives out sensuality,” and “The act of procreation and anything that has any relation to it is so disgusting that human beings would soon die out if there were no pretty faces and sensuous dispositions.” I further address the likelihood of Leonardo being asexual and schizoid in my paper, On the Schizoid Personality, from my Applied Theory compilation. 

But on Leonardo’s genius: besides his obvious, impressive, polymathic output, which I view as an unmistakable sign of high, general creative ability, he also produced a lot of remarkable work with, by today’s standards, remarkably little resources, and, in all likelihood, poor nutrition. Moreover, given the advances in every field of human interest since Leonardo’s time, alongside the ungodly increase in the accessibility of information that has happened in recent years, one might expect for even average Americans to be matching Leonardo’s creative output, easily. And yet, he’s still impressive. 

Jacobsen: What are some of the recent accomplishments where more desirable jobs may be available to you?

Finch: Most notably, simply being admitted to Harvard seems to confer a lot of market desirability. Some people have also found my recent test creations and website designs impressive enough to offer me paid work.

Jacobsen: Your Creative Attitudes Inventory (V.1) is a test of 55 questions taking a total of fewer than 15 minutes to complete. You posit three traits comprising creative thinking in Aberrant Salience (Unusual Thinking), Conscientiousness (discipline), and Polymathic Interests. Why develop the test?

Finch: I developed the Creative Attitudes Inventory because the creative ability assessment that I created contained tasks that, due to my lack of programming skills, I’m currently unable to administer online, at least in a manner that I think will provide reliable and meaningful data for me to analyze. The subtests of the Creative Attitudes Inventory were actually originally selected to assess the divergent and convergent validity of the tasks in my non-self-report assessment of creativity. 

Jacobsen: Why posit Aberrant Salience (Unusual Thinking), Conscientiousness (discipline), and Polymathic Interests as the core traits for measurement?

Finch: Unusual thinking and Conscientiousness are two of the three facets of my model of creativity. As for why they are included in my model: discipline and proneness for unusual thought are definitive markers of high, general creative ability, as without conscientiousness one would not have the work ethic needed to produce anything of value, or make the most of whatever creative ideas or talents that they do have, and without a high capacity for unusual thought, one could not even think up many novel ideas, to begin with. For more on the justification for the facets in my model of creativity, readers should read my short essay, Preconditions for Genius, from my short book, After Genius.

The third facet of my model, being g, intelligence, or pattern recognition, seems to be poorly testable through self-report questionnaires, so it was not included in the set of questionnaires that would eventually be called the Creative Attitudes Inventory. 

The novel Polymathic Interests Inventory was included, mainly, because I wanted to see if there was evidence that unusual thinking proneness was positively associated with interests in a wide array of scientific and artistic fields, as well as if conscientiousness moderated the relationship between having an interest in many fields, and the belief that one has actually innovated in some of those fields. The theory here was that much discipline and thoroughness may be needed to convert ideas into innovations, as well as to believe that one has done so, despite their not there not yet being much widespread acceptance that they have. 

Jacobsen: What are some of statistics coming back for the test so far?

Finch: Due to some issues with the program that hosts the test, I removed the Creative Attitudes Inventory from my website shortly after posting it, so not enough data was collected on it to produce any meaningful statistics. Although, I recently did an experiment with Shelley Carson on a creativity class at Harvard using the Creativity Attitudes Inventory and other measures of divergent thinking and creative achievement. This experiment also included the Unusual Thinking task that was part of my non-self-report assessment of creativity. I’ll receive the data that was collected from this experiment soon, and will post a report on those statistics shortly after.

Jacobsen: For the Public Domain Intelligence Test (PDIT) measuring Crystallized Intelligence (Gc) and Fluid Intelligence (Gf), what was the inspiration for it? As anyone can see, the basis for the test is derived from the old SATs considered valid for admission to the International High IQ Society of the late Nathan Haselbauer (suicide) and the Triple Nine Society.

Finch: The Public Domain Intelligence Test was developed because I was unable to find a test of general intelligence that was free, quick, openly accessible, and well-validated, both conceptually and psychometrically. The structure of the test was designed to resemble the second form of the Wechsler Abbreviated Scales of Intelligence (WASI-2). The sentence completion items for the Verbal, Crystallized Intelligence section of the test were selected because they were openly accessible, short in form, and that there is considerable evidence validating the psychometric properties of pre-2005 Verbal SAT forms, as well as considerable evidence suggesting that sentence completion items may provide integrative measures of crystallized intelligence. The matrix reasoning item set for the Nonverbal, Fluid Intelligence section were also selected because they were openly accessible, quickly doable, and was satisfactorily validated, both psychometrically, and as a potential measure of fluid intelligence.

Jacobsen: What are some of the responses to it now? Any updates on the statistical findings?

Finch: At the time of my writing this response, PDIT has received a few thousand test sessions. Moreover, the written and spoken responses that I’ve received to the test has been quite varied. Many people have told me that the test seems very hard, and some people have told me that the test seems too easy, considering the range of scores that it provides. Quite a lot of people have lied to me directly about the scores they’ve achieved on the test, and some of those people later confessed to this after they realized that I can see every test session for PDIT, and am given some identifying information about the test’s takers. Statistical findings for the test, so far, indicate that FSIQs from the test are highly correlated with WAIS-IV FSIQs, and very highly correlated with WAIS-IV GAIs. These findings also indicate that, compared to WAIS-IV FSIQs, PDIT FSIQs are not inflated. These findings also indicate that PDIT FSIQs are normally distributed, have a standard deviation of 14.85, and are significantly more correlated with PDIT Verbal and Non-verbal scores than the scores from those two sections are with each other, indicating that PDIT FSIQs load on the common factor between its two subtests, which is presumably g, or what tends to be referred to as the general intelligence factor.

Jacobsen: What do you consider your strongest points in intelligence?

Finch: Apparently I’m most skilled at coming up with analogies and elaborating on the similarities between things. Although, I believe that this ability may be more related to creativity than intelligence, but since high intelligence is required for creativity, this ability seems to have a g-loading sufficient to be included in some intelligence tests, such as the WAIS-IV. 

Jacobsen: Given the “law of non-contradiction” and the “mechanics of emergence,” and a universe with a self-testing function ‘implying self-awareness,’ ‘how might someone become one with God?’

Finch: Become more coherent (constitutionally), creative, and enlightened or insightful. 

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Member, CIVIQ Society.

[2] Individual Publication Date: March 15, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/finch-2; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with LaRae Bakerink on Tales from Youth, MBA in Management, Curmudgeons, Male Brokers’ Temperaments, and Mensa International: Elected Chair, American Mensa; Member, International Board of Directors, Mensa International (1)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/03/08

Abstract

LaRae Bakerink is the Elected Chair of American Mensa and a Member of the Executive Committee of the International Board of Directors of Mensa International. She has been a Member of San Diego Mensa since 2001. Bakerink earned a bachelor’s degree in Finance and an M.B.A. in Management. She lives in San Diego with her husband, Steve. She discusses: family history; the MBA in Management; a difficult personality; brokers; the temperament you most find with people; and American Mensa.

Keywords: American Mensa, Executive Committee, intelligence, IQ, Larae Bakerink, Mensa Foundation, Mensa International, San Diego.

Conversation with Larae Bakerink on Tales from Youth, MBA in Management, Curmudgeons, Male Brokers’ Temperaments, and Mensa International: Elected Chair, American Mensa; Member, International Board of Directors, Mensa International (1)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Superhero movies are very popular now. Let’s start on an origin story, if you want to give any, family history, and any tales from youth of particular influence on you.

LaRae Bakerink[1],[2]: My story: as I said before, I was born in Washington, D.C. I’m the oldest child. My father was the middle child of 9. My mother is the oldest child. Well, she was the oldest child, until she found out [Laughing]. Her father was not really her father. Thank you, 23andMe.

Jacobsen: Wow.

Bakerink: Yes, that’s a whole other story. I found out who my real grandfather is because I made my mother spit into a tube.

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Bakerink: It is just nice to know. I always did well in school. My parents were pretty strict about it. In fact, if I ever thought about getting a B, I would probably be put on restriction. I started Kindergarten when I was 4. Because I had a high aptitude.

So, they wanted me in early. I went to 3 months of second grade and then skipped up to third grade because I had finished all my books, all my math books, English books, by the third month of second grade.

Then I was shorter, smaller, and, of course, younger than everybody. It made me very introverted. When you’re a little kid, and when everyone is a little taller than you, it makes a big difference. I got teased a lot.

But I was pretty good at sports. So, I could, at least, be physical and try and keep up. Then I graduated high school at 16, started college. Discovered my driver’s license and freedom [Laughing], college didn’t go so well for the first few years.

I think I had a pretty good childhood. It was a lot of fun. I was on swim team. In fact, I trained very competitively for almost 14 years swimming. Then I started out as a marine biologist. That’s what I wanted to be when I first started college.

Because San Diego, hello! Scripps Institute of Oceanography and all of that, it’s a big deal here. Then I realized there was not a whole lot of money in that. Even though, I love science. Because if you’re going to be a researcher or something, then you’re going to have to depend on grant money.

Then I fell into a job, a part-time job, at a stock brokerage firm. I discovered my love of finance. I changed my major to finance. I worked in the stock market for almost 30 years. I was on the Board of the NASDAQ stock market. I was on the Board of National Association of Securities Dealers, which is the regulatory agency for the stock market in the United States.

That was my life. My husband’s life, we had our own firm. I always was feeling that I should have done something more with my smarts, but, on the other hand, feel like I’ve done pretty well with my smarts over the years.

I always did well in school with good grades, loved school. One of the people who I know who actually really loved school. Still enjoy learning, I got married at a very young age and divorced at a very young age because, when you get married at 18, I don’t think you’re ready.

I met my current husband. We will be married 36 years this year. He and I ran our own brokerage firm for a while. Now, we’re retired, except I spend more time working for Mensa than I ever spent working for my company.

Jacobsen: You did an MBA too. What drove you to get the MBA in Management in particular?

Bakerink: Actually, the teacher that I had. She was the management teacher I had while getting my finance degree. I am really good with numbers. They tried to talk me into accounting. I was like, “No, it’s not my desire.” When I talked to her (the Dr.), she was adamant about having the management capability and being able to work the teams with the finance degree that I had, which would be very beneficial.

She was right. It was a good addition to the finance degree. Just because it gives you a different insight into working with other people, I hated all the team projects. But they’re probably one of the best things I ever did.

It helped me to work with them even if I didn’t like them, if I didn’t trust them, if I felt what I was doing was better than they were. Some people have a problem if they are better than you. It gave me a lot of good insight into how to work with a different variety of people.

I think that really helped me through the brokerage industry through the years because brokers are a breed unto themselves [Laughing]. They’re very focused on what they do. They don’t pay attention a lot to what is going on around them when they are focused.

I had to find a way to get to them. My husband called me “The Curmudgeon Whisperer.”

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Bakerink: Because I could get even our grumpiest brokers to laugh and to smile, and to get them to do what they needed to do.

Jacobsen: If you’re dealing with a difficult personality, your quintessential curmudgeon. How do you do it?

Bakerink: This one guy, I knew he really, really liked cats. If he started getting really crabby or demanding, or whatever, I would send him a picture of a cat, or I would joke with him about “I will send you a basket of kittens if you don’t behave.”

Because he liked cats and was afraid of kittens. He would laugh. Then he would stop being grumpy. We would get down to business. You find out what their passion is and focus on that, ‘Hey, you got this thing going on here. You don’t need to be grumpy. We can do this.’

It is reading people and figuring out the story as to why they’re really mad. Because half of the time, why they say they’re mad is not why they’re mad; they’re angry about a fight that they had with their wife yesterday.

So, they are going to take this out on me. “Did you have a bad day or weekend?” They go, “Oh, yeah, okay.” [Laughing]

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Bakerink: They calm down a bit.

Jacobsen: Are more brokers women or men?

Bakerink: Men, for sure.

Jacobsen: My image of a curmudgeon is a man. I don’t know if this is good or bad, but it’s the image.

Bakerink: The stock market, they’re so set in their ways. A lot of the brokers are brought up in what they call “Bull Pens.” They are trained in a big room, where they have to cold call customers and have a script. They have to tell customers this script over and over and over again.

It gets pounded into them: This is what you have to do. It is hard to get that out of them. When they get out into the real-world and have to socialize with their customers [Laughing] or their colleagues, once you learn where they come from, it becomes easier.

It is like that with anybody. You figure out what it is that drives them that makes it fun to work with them.

Jacobsen: What is the temperament you most find with people? If you cold call people day-in and day-out, in America and presumably outside it too, what is the general temperament over decades of working in that industry?

Bakerink: This is back in the day. It was all before emails. So, they’d get rejected a lot. They have to be tough skinned. Especially cold-calling, you’ll get yelled at. There are people who don’t want to hear from you, who hang up.

You’re given a phone list. You don’t know who you’re calling. It gives them a tough skin, which is a good thing sometimes. I had brokers quit who said, “I lost a customer’s money. I can’t do this anymore.” [Laughing]

So, you can’t have that feeling and do a good job, or to move forward. I think you have to be pretty tough to be a broker and you have to work with that, and figure out what they need to not be so mad all the time.

Jacobsen: Now, you’re working more in Mensa, as American Mensa’s Chair more than any other job you’ve had – or volunteer position. So, what are the tasks and responsibilities in being chief officer?

Bakerink: Number one, I am Chair of American Mensa. I run the meetings, the agenda. I am the face right now of American Mensa. I deal with the press. I probably get a couple hundred emails a day, not just from members, but people from all over. ‘You know, Mensa needs to look at this.’

I get more projects and ideas from people. Some of them a little crazy.

Jacobsen: Conspiracy theories?

Bakerink: Conspiracy theories they believe Mensa needs to investigate. Also, I am an ex-officio member of the Mensa Foundation Board, but I have designated a proxy for that. Because I feel I need to concentrate of doing a good job.

I am also on the Executive Committee for the International Board of Directors of Mensa International. So, three positions coming from one. There is a lot of interaction with the membership and the staff. We work on our events trying to recruit new members.

One of the things that I am really proud of that we finally got done is testing in a testing facility Prometric. So, you can take our test. You can go into one of our testing facilities. You can take it online at one of our testing facilities.

Prior to that, when you had gone to a psychiatrist and taken the Stanford-Binet or the Wechsler, you could provide that as prior evidence. But we also have proctors authorized by our national supervisory psychologist that will give the tests that we use for entrance for qualification for Mensa.

Those are usually the third Saturday of the month at either a church or some local community hall, libraries. That sort of thing, because it is a regular test. You need quiet. So, we have about 400 proctors nationwide.

Mensa members who have college degree, a 4-year degree, and then have also gone through and done all of the requirements to do a proctor, being observed, doing a test, observing others do a test, prior to being approved as a proctor.

Then they can give the test to potential candidates. But a lot of my Millennials will say, “I’m not taking a test on a Saturday morning. That’s either hangover or Home Depot day.”

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Bakerink: Plus, a lot of them are nervous, introverted and most of them don’t want to sit down in a classroom setting and take a test. Now that we have it set up with Prometric. They’re open 6 a.m. until 10 p.m. 7 days a week.

They can sit you down in a booth in a corner, so you don’t have to interact with other people, which makes some of our introverts very happy [Laughing]. With COVID-19, we haven’t been able to test.

Some have safety standards, so they can test. So, we don’t have to worry about those. But we still have people taking the test and wanting to join. I’ve worked on that for almost 7 years and finally gotten it to pass because everything was done on paper up until that point, instead of being able to take it at a computer.

You can’t take it at home. You have to take it at a center to verify identity and all that kind of stuff. That’s something I’m very excited about.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Chair, American Mensa; Member, International Board of Directors (Executive Committee), Mensa International; Ex-Officio Member, Mensa Foundation; Member, San Diego Mensa.

[2] Individual Publication Date: March 1, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/bakerink-1; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Hiroshi Murasaki on Family, Intelligence, Genius, Philosophy, and Love: Member, ISI-Society

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/03/01

Abstract

Murasaki Hiroshi is a Member of ISI-Society. Hiroshi discusses: growing up; a sense of an extended self; the family background; the experience with peers and schoolmates; some professional certifications; the purpose of intelligence tests; high intelligence discovered; the extreme reactions to and treatment of geniuses; the greatest geniuses in history; a genius from a profoundly intelligent person; profound intelligence necessary for genius; work experiences and jobs; particular job path; the gifted and geniuses; God; science; the tests taken and scores earned (with standard deviations); the range of the scores; ethical philosophy; social philosophy; economic philosophy; political philosophy; metaphysics; philosophical system; meaning in life; meaning externally derived, internally generated; an afterlife; the mystery and transience of life; and love.

Keywords: family, genius, Hiroshi Murasaki, intelligence, IQ, ISI-Society, love, philosophy.

Conversation with Hiroshi Murasaki on Family, Intelligence, Genius, Philosophy, and Love: Member, ISI-Society

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: When you were growing up, what were some of the prominent family stories being told over time?

Murasaki Hiroshi[1],[2]*: My family is far away now. We spent a lot of time together when we were close. I was raised harshly and severely by my mother, to whom I am very much indebted. She is not my real biological mother, but she has taken her place. She taught me the essential values ​​to which I am very attached. The stories she told me were from real life, not fairy tales. We often played together, even video games. The stories she told me, very often, were visions of the future. A future we would build together.

Jacobsen: Have these stories helped provide a sense of an extended self or a sense of the family legacy?

Hiroshi: Everything my mother taught me is like tattooed on my skin. It helped me develop a personal sense of myself vigorously. I learned the value of constancy, commitment, getting things done, and always doing my best. She taught me about having pride in myself and people who deserve respect. She taught me the value of strength, of willpower.

Without her teachings, I would hardly be the person I am: I have a definite love for the identity that I managed to build, I hate making promises I can’t keep, I hate leaving things unfinished. Above all, I hate not achieving the goals I set myself. For me, it is unforgivable. I know I’m very strict, but I like the way I am. My family has had many faults but, to me, they are very precious, more than merits, because they made me proud of both myself and them.

Jacobsen: What was the family background, eg, geography, culture, language, and religion or lack thereof?

Hiroshi: My family is very heterogeneous, it includes different countries, different cultures, different languages, ​​and different religions. I am a native speaker of three languages.

It is difficult to identify a single reference background, even if the common idea is the same. Perhaps a common flaw that many of us have is excessive pride, which I judge badly. An advantage is the sense of unity and the strong perception of the concept of respect and the scientific consideration of things.

Jacobsen: How was the experience with peers and schoolmates as a child and an adolescent?

Hiroshi: I’ve always been the weird, the different, one. In adolescence, I had to deal with a strong sense of aggressivity that alienated me from others. When I was in high school, I enjoyed going to college courses instead. I’ve always done things with absurd timing to say the least, in the negative sense of the term. I never got along with my peers because I have always loved independence and work. I never asked my parents for money and I always made money by myself with jobs. I have always had strong corporate inclinations, linked to ambition, even as a teenager: I liked forming groups and doing creative projects, which always aimed at solving a problem and earning money.

Jacobsen: What have been some professional certifications, qualifications, and trainings earned by you?

Hiroshi: My professional life is divided into two major phases. That of working in the company as a developer and communicator and that of an artist. So I have various certifications for studies and courses that I have done like those of Adobe, those of Magento or WordPress, a slew of certifications for business management courses… I also have a degree in languages ​​that I took when I was younger. Now I’m getting my degree in physics. Lately, I have decided to clear my professional background and focus on physics and art, possibly together.

I’ve worked so hard, now I just want to do things I like. For this I am currently studying social media, how to be a freelance artist in the science sector and how to do a good branding job on myself. The IQ certifications, however, I did not take them to serve me professionally. I took them to solve an insecurity problem with the university and because I was hoping to get financial help to study. As a working student, it can be very frustrating not being able to devote as much time as possible to studying, which is my greatest passion.

So I invented a job where my job was to study for others.

Jacobsen: What is the purpose of intelligence tests to you?

Hiroshi: Intelligence tests provide a not indifferent emotional engine, they can give an answer to some questions when you feel not up to something or not accepted. The first time I took the test it was for an emotional response. At the physics college, a lecturer told me that I wasn’t smart enough to go to college and I took the test to have a counter-proof, a proof that he was wrong.
 At the time, I couldn’t afford to pay taxes and in truth, I admit, I wanted to be pampered for my intelligence. I think it is correct to take care of very intelligent people, rather than forcing them to lower themselves to the level of others, getting bored to death. For me, to a certain extent, a test passed with a high score was also a moral obligation towards myself, I could not say that I was not intelligent enough to do something. If it was my duty to do it, surely I could have completed it, the test obliged me, but it also allowed me to constantly validate myself, to learn and therefore to become smarter from time to time: a learning positive feedback mechanism.

Jacobsen: When was high intelligence discovered for you?

Hiroshi: When I was young I felt smarter than everyone else: I programmed, repaired computers, studied, had a job… In my head it was obvious that I was superior to others and often looked at them with disdain.

When I got to the heart of this issue and my studies, I realized that there was really something wrong.
The first association I met was for 130-140, it was 2016, and I was already studying physics. I had entered to prove to myself that I was enough to attend physics faculty. Although it was an association for high IQs, I did not perceive them as intellectually superior to me, while at university I still felt the same as everyone who attended the degree course, on the contrary, I felt less than them, that they were much better than me certainly on the application part.

Of course, the problem could be the background. I already had a degree in literature, while many of them came from the scientific and had a mindset more adapted to the sciences and their way of thinking.


Later, as the school years progressed, I totally lost interest in IQ. To date, my IQ is certified at 164, and this certificate has done nothing to me except to upset people when I talked about it by appearing superb. I value things for their functionality. Certified IQ makes me feel different, attackable. However, right now I feel anything but confident in my brainpower. If I think about the limits of my reality and try to reason as if I were outside the physical system of which I am a part, my head goes up in smoke.

I feel limited by current mathematics, which, if interpreted as a language, seems to have the same limits as us. When faced with what I see, what I study, I feel small. So, in truth, the discovery of higher intelligence is only an illusion. Intelligence is a complex factor, formed by a spectrum of non-interchangeable and alienable capacities over time.

Jacobsen: When you think of the ways in which the geniuses of the past have either been mocked, vilified, and condemned if not killed, or praised, flattered, platformed, and revered, what seems like the reason for the extreme reactions to and treatment of geniuses? Many alive today seem camera shy – many, not all.

Hiroshi: Because human beings do not tolerate solutions that are incomprehensible to them, genius is not easily understood and is derided, like Baudelaire’s Albatross. The human being laughs at what he does not understand, thinking that humiliating something makes the sense of inadequacy he feels or the ridicule he covers up disappear. As for being shy or not in front of a camera, each person is different and each category collects infinite nuances. The word genius is a whole with indefinite outlines and unclear properties.

Jacobsen: Who seem like the greatest geniuses in history to you?

Hiroshi: I would say Dirac. After Einstein, Noether, Godel and Heisenberg there is Dirac, which is what I feel closest to. What distinguished Dirac more than anything else is the beauty of mathematics, and the idea that theoretical physics can be based entirely on mathematics, not as a tool, but as a language capable of offering direct access to the mechanisms of the universe. He proved that it is possible, opening the door to a new way of doing physics.
Dirac had his own vision of the world made explicit in the affirmation “if science is the attempt to say in words understandable by all things that people did not know before, poetry is its opposite, that is the tendency to talk about things known with dark words“. I like poetry, but Dirac is right. It takes less opinion, more clarity and fewer personal interpretations of nature. The scientific method needs to show everyone its beauty and elegance. What is the meaning of beauty in mathematics, however, should be explored.

Jacobsen: What differentiates a genius from a profoundly intelligent person?

Hiroshi: The genius knows how to put both hemispheres in communication, he knows how to move in multidisciplinarity, he knows how to feed himself and look for things even in the most unthinkable places. An intelligent person looks for answers in his own rationality and in himself. The genius knows how to look for the answers outside. The truth is, we are a not-too-well-planned database of what we see. Furthermore, the genius understands that the difference between reality and fantasy is marked only by hard work, after all, genius comes from ingenuity, not from intellect.

Jacobsen: Is profound intelligence necessary for genius?

Hiroshi: No, intelligence develops over time. It can be trained, genius is a mindset. It certainly has genetic basis, but it is not enough. Furthermore, having high intellectual abilities means nothing: aptitude plays a fundamental role.

Jacobsen: What have been some work experiences and jobs held by you?

Hiroshi: I’ve done a lot of jobs in my life, because I needed to find my way. My studies were also strange, but somehow everything managed to converge in one place.

I was a communicator, with advanced web and graphic development skills.
I worked for important sports clubs in Serie A (football), I worked for the Aerospace department and for companies always linked to aerospace, I worked for universities and I was the technical director of a national TV oriented to children aged from 16 to 25 years.

All these experiences led me to the realization that I want to go back young and dream of my career in theoretical physics. Now I can look at physics studies through the eyes of a more mature person, richer in experience.

At the moment, I study physics full time and my main job is being a science illustrator and communicator. Recently, I have been preparing a path as a scientific V-Tuber. I love science and I want to show its beauty to as many people as possible, without ever making it look boring.

Jacobsen: Why pursue this particular job path?

Hiroshi: I had to build my economic stability day after day, really seizing every opportunity. I have always offered communication and development services, but I started from the bottom. I have always combined my work as a freelancer with some personal projects that were seriously linked to my personal interests.

Since I enrolled in a second university to study physics, I have had to deal with the shortage of time, so I have gradually started to eliminate personal projects and reduce the number of clients. Nowadays, I no longer communicate for anyone who is not linked to the scientific / university sector. I work mainly as a scientific illustrator but I also do more versatile things, if the work team is pleasant and I feel comfortable.

I have recently started, but I have already obtained jobs for very important universities (in the top 10 in 2020), I can finally say that I have found my way.


It makes no sense to work in an industry that you don’t love madly: you become cynical and bored. I study to become a researcher in Theoretical Physics, but I work every day to spread to the youngest, to offer free training, to explain science through art and manga. Because after all, I’m a nerd who believes too much.

Jacobsen: What are some of the more important aspects of the idea of ​​the gifted and geniuses? Those myths that pervade the cultures of the world. What are those myths? What truths dispel them?

Hiroshi: I have always grown up surrounded by people who admired me simply because I knew how to do many things and, in their opinion, well, the truth is that I was curious and hyperactive, but everything I learned, I learned it with effort: I can draw and this has required at least ten years of study. I can speak many languages, but I started as a child and practically never stopped (last year I thought about moving to Denmark and I successfully completed the basic Danish language course). Today I don’t live in Denmark and I have forgotten almost everything I had learned, while in the common idea of ​​a genius they learn immediately without effort and remember forever, which is absolutely not true.

So, the bottom line is that necessity creates virtue. We learn the things we need and probably the genius is the one who has learned his trade and who has understood that he needs to learn more to train his talent. Precisely, as a sportsman continues to train more and more to overcome his limits, the truth is that one day I decided I wanted to become a genius and, therefore, I started doing things like geniuses, even if I never believed in genius as ordinary people do.

I played the part, but I never forgot the work behind the scenes, a bit like a magician would. I believe that people must first understand that intelligence (technical part) and genius (attitude and mental state) are things that are built and it is never too late to do so.

I started building it around the age of 25 (very late), and the results came very quickly. Maybe being a genius is closer to being an influencer than a philosopher, inspiring others by doing what you love. 
It doesn’t matter how big the numbers are.

For example, when I enrolled in college I had absolutely no idea how modern physics was organized. I just knew I was interested in time travel, so I read about Einstein, Dirac, and some other famous names. I started playing the violin at 27 because Einstein played it. Nowadays, I don’t like Einstein as much as I used to, but the violin is part of my life.

I read the biographies and tried to read the same books as in the case of Einstein and Dirac, who have the most particular thought possible: I found that the rationale for their studies was realized through the reading of Mill’s deductive logic. I bought the book and started reading it as soon as I realized it.

What does this mean? If you want to be a sportsman you have to think like a sportsman. Talent is the consequence of doing something with passion by immersing yourself in that way of being, which you learn little by little. When they say ‘want is power’ and that ‘hard work brings results’, it is true. You are not born geniuses, but only very lucky because the environment has already put you in that mentality from an early age. If you weren’t lucky, you can fix it yourself.

Jacobsen: Any thoughts on the God concept or gods idea and philosophy, theology, and religion?

Hiroshi: I don’t believe in a divine figure as imagined by the great monotheistic religions and the figure of a divinity drawn in this way is only a political rather than a spiritual tool.

My first university career was history, cultures and religions.

Studying physics it is difficult not to believe anything, but I believe that this discourse deserves a separate space. What I can say is that the more I study, the more I feel I am small. The smaller I feel, the more I want to grow. For me, the concept of God is this sense of movement. Sometimes I have imagined the existence of the divine, in a place where I thank him for creating something as beautiful as the universe. The truth is that, before we can deal with the big questions of philosophy, we must have better weapons.

Jacobsen: How much does science play into the worldview for you?

Hiroshi: Science is the foundation of every single event that happens in the world. In biology, it is said that nothing makes sense except in the light of evolution. Physics reaches an even more visceral level, so visceral that it leaves you speechless. I love science more than anything else: as a former humanist, I say that the beauty of physics is something that can communicate with the soul better than a Dante’s triplet would.

What moves me every day is science. I absolutely want to get to know it better, day after day. I can’t imagine a world where physics is not part of my existence.

Jacobsen: What have been some of the tests taken and scores earned (with standard deviations) for you?

Hiroshi: I did a Mensa test, Fiqure test with 164 (SD15), ENST20 test of which I don’t remember the score, but always between 158 and 165. All deviations are sd15. I then wanted to focus on getting a 170+ certification because in my worldview of IQ it is not true that you are 160 and remain 160. By raising the aerobic threshold of the brain, IQ can go up, just like in the gym.

Unfortunately, however, the fact that I had to work a lot and that when I asked for a scholarship to be able to focus on my studies, the state of poverty was more important than my intellectual abilities, threw me into a deep crisis. Not only that: talking about your IQ puts you in a compromised situation. People tell you that you want to put yourself above others, that certifying intelligence is nonsense and so I stopped worrying about trying other higher tests because I couldn’t see any achievable advantage. At present, I want to be able to get admitted to a university of the caliber of Cambridge (actually, I would like Cambridge), from what I understand the projects in the portfolio count much more, rather than an exaggerated IQ. So, although my ambition made me think I wanted to try the GIGA, after the 4G I eventually lost the reason behind the purpose. Ultimately, smart or not, we always need a community to feel part of and to feel protected from, with which to share goals and visions.

Jacobsen: What is the range of the scores for you? The scores earned on alternative intelligence tests tend to produce a wide smattering of data points rather than clusters, typically.

Hiroshi:  Generally 162 or 164, I don’t remember exactly. Once there was a 151, as well as a 172. I like to think 164, because my girlfriend did a 166 and I like to say she has a few more points than me, because I find it fun and also very inspiring.

Jacobsen: What ethical philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Hiroshi: I have written my personal Ethical Path over the last 10 years, mixing visions and philosophies, even conflicting with each other, since modern society is a linear combination of these philosophies, even dichotomous ones.

My ethics require me not to waste time on silly thoughts, to work hard to get what I want at any cost, to be sincere and to always show my will, at every opportunity. Don’t lie and use the truth as a weapon, always be true to myself.

Reject prejudice in all its forms, stay curious. Learn from everyone and always offer something from your experience to teach. Research, experiment.
Fight your own defects and improve yourself, set yourself very ambitious goals, reaching at least half of them every year. Challenging the improbability, to find yourself in a life that is always changing. Unlikely calls unlikely, so different occasions, every time.

Living in the cult of one’s vision. Life is too short to sacrifice ourselves, we have to live fully for ourselves. If it’s not possible, try the impossible.

Jacobsen: What social philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Hiroshi: At this moment in my life, I am studying social dynamics with interest for the first time and I am approaching emotional intelligence. Personally, I had a particularly strict and wild background, so I don’t appreciate too soft approaches, but I think it depends on the types of people. The truth is that I don’t like to surround myself with soft people, even if my curious nature makes me want to understand rather than judge.

I’m far from grasping social understanding and trying not to fall into the trap of hypocrisy, but I hope in a few years to be able to answer this question. For now, I say that I am transgender (born woman, became man) and therefore gender issues should be my point of reference. Probably, however, I am only interested in discussing the social dimensions of scientific knowledge and a philosophy that revolves around this. A bit like it happened in the early twentieth century.

Jacobsen: What economic philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Hiroshi: Personally, I believe that capitalism is something unsustainable. However, the possibility of not being able to increase one’s wealth scares me. If in the future there was a payment on time and services, I don’t think I would be happy. Because I’m lazy and because I build job opportunities mainly based on optimizations.

Jacobsen: What political philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Hiroshi: I hate democracy when it makes no sense to exist. I live in a country where people don’t know what they’re talking about. The civic sense is at a minimum and the situation is of profound crisis. People who talk about flat earth, about conspiracies, about not wanting vaccines and so on. These people have the same right to vote as me. This democracy, as Plato said, makes no sense and is a strong degeneration. Each has a weight. One is not worthy, in this context.

To date, the only political philosophy that pleases me is Chinese legalism, which comes from Confucianism. From there the geniocracy, which sees as its basic principle measuring the raw intelligence and giving the right to vote only to those who have an intelligence above the average of a certain percentage while the possibility of government is only for the geniuses that is those most intelligent than the average in a remarkable way. Let’s say 10 and 50% respectively. It would therefore be a question of a selective democracy, which does not neglect emotional intelligence and the ability to introspect.

Jacobsen: What metaphysics makes some sense to you, even the most workable sense to you?

Hiroshi: Like the magic square of the SATOR, every metaphysical phenomenon is just a physical phenomenon not yet explained, it’s just a matter of time. It is up to our sensitivity and our attitude to decide whether Sator refers to a Catholic vision in which the divine is manifested (Ego Sum Alpha et Omega, in the deciphered reading of the sator), an unofficial translation, more than anything else hypothetical, as “Sator Abrepo, Opera tenet rotas” ie the sower disappears, his work continues by itself, or a simple symmetrical matrix.
As I said, I lived first as a humanist, so the fact that only now is seeing the symmetrical matrix makes me think a lot. Nothing proves what the true interpretation is, but nothing proves that reality is univocal.

Anyway, what I see with my own eyes is that will is the most beautiful metaphysics I want to believe in. In emotions, there is the force behind the movement. It seems to me the most relevant thing. Physics has the role of explaining the inexplicable, whether it is photoelectric effect or abracadabra for us, this should not be limiting. After all, today’s photoelectric effect was yesterday’s abracadabra.

Jacobsen: What worldview-encompassing philosophical system makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Hiroshi: To date, no suitable philosophical thought has been produced and it is for this reason that society is still involved. If philosophers were a little more careful about the logical processes to be adopted, rather than forging ideas about discontent, they might have more value to me.

Jacobsen: What provides meaning in life for you?

Hiroshi: There are two things that give my life meaning. The first, certainly the most important of all for me, is to be recognized as myself. The second thing is trivial: to seek an explanation for existence, as the ancient Greek philosophers did. To do this, you have to break the barriers of your intellect, which is anything but easy, and that is why it is my goal to follow logical processes that are not linear, but transcendent (in the mathematical sense of the term).

Jacobsen: Is meaning externally derived, internally generated, both, or something else?

Hiroshi: There is no internal or external, because we are not a closed system with adiabatic processes.

Jacobsen: Do you believe in an afterlife? If so, why, and what form? If not, why not?

Hiroshi: Just recently I wanted to talk to a refrigerator, I believe that electromagnetic fields and consciousness are closely related and I also believe that there is not much difference between our cognitive processes and the computation of a quantum computer, so I made myself the idea that there is an explanation to all the philosophical, religious and literary legacy left by our ancestors. The recurring forms and myths are perhaps a starting point for science. When I go to sleep in the evening, I always think that when I die I will be an electromagnetic wave discharged to the ground in many small fragments or that has the possibility of traveling in the vacuum of the universe for a very long time. If I can put forward a hope I would like to believe that there is no reincarnation, nor death in the epicurean sense, but that it is a phase transformation, in which I will finally be able to explore the universe and be part of it in another form, as long as I am conscious. I hate this sense of helplessness, I would like to know more.

Jacobsen: What do you make of the mystery and transience of life?

Hiroshi: I would like Einstein to be right when he says that God does not play dice, but the problem is that he does, at least as far as Bell’s inequality proves. But in one of my very fanciful ideas there is perhaps another explanation. After my master’s studies, if this idea will withstand the elements of knowledge, I will try to deepen and why not: maybe demonstrate.

Jacobsen: What is love to you?

Hiroshi: When Plato talks about divided souls he didn’t go very far. The person I love is my opposite, so opposite as to be complementary, he is certainly smarter than me, but also more stupid (in the nice sense of the term). He is involved in biology and manages not only to understand what I think, but to feed new thoughts. Probably, since when I think of us the left hand on the violin string and the right hand holding the bow comes to mind, probably love is nothing more than the music produced.

Original Italian

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: When you were growing up, what were some of the prominent family stories being told over time?

Murasaki Hiroshi[1],[2]*: La mia famiglia ora è lontana. Quando eravamo vicini passavamo molto tempo insieme. Sono stato educato con durezza e severità da mia madre verso cui sono molto debitore. Non è la mia vera madre biologica, ma ne ha esercitato le veci. Mi ha insegnato valori molto importanti a cui sono molto legato. Le storie che mi raccontava erano di vita vera, non favole. Giocavamo spesso insieme, anche ai videogiochi. Le storie che mi raccontava, molto spesso, erano visioni del futuro. Abbiamo scritto una storia insieme, una specie di libro, a cui sono molto affezionato. 

Jacobsen: Have these stories helped provide a sense of an extended self or a sense of the family legacy?

Hiroshi: Tutto ciò che mi è stato insegnato da mia madre per me è come tatuato sulla pelle. Mi ha aiutato a sviluppare un senso personale di me stesso in modo molto forte. Ho imparato il valore della costanza, dell’impegno, del portare a termine le cose e di mettere tutto me stesso in ogni cosa che faccio. Di svolgere i miei compiti bene, o almeno provarci. Mi ha insegnato l’orgoglio verso me stesso e le persone che meritano il rispetto. Mi ha insegnato il valore della forza, della volontà. 

Senza i suoi insegnamenti difficilmente sarei la persona che sono: ho un fortissimo amore per l’identità che sono riuscito a costruire, detesto promettere cose che non posso mantenere, detesto lasciare cose incompiute. Soprattutto, detesto non ottenere gli obiettivi che mi sono prefissato, per me è imperdonabile. So di essere molto rigido ma mi piaccio così. La mia famiglia ha avuto molti difetti, ma per me sono preziosissimi più dei pregi perché mi hanno reso orgoglioso sia di me che di loro. 

Jacobsen: What was the family background, e.g., geography, culture, language, and religion or lack thereof?

Hiroshi: La mia famiglia è molto eterogenea, comprende diversi paesi, diverse culture, diverse lingue e diverse religioni. Io stesso parto con tre lingue madrelingua. È difficile se non impossibile identificare un unico background di riferimento, anche se l’ideale comune è lo stesso. Forse un difetto che accomuna molti è l’orgoglio eccessivo, che considero una cosa poco utile. Un pregio è il senso di unità e la forte percezione del concetto di rispetto, unità e considerazione scientifica delle cose. 

Jacobsen: How was the experience with peers and schoolmates as a child and an adolescent?

Hiroshi: Sono sempre stato quello strano, diverso. Il secchione, per intenderci, quando ero più piccolo. Nell’adolescenza ho dovuto fare i conti con un forte senso di aggressività che mi ha allontanato dagli altri. Quando ero al liceo, mi piaceva andare a seguire i corsi universitari. Ho sempre fatto le cose con un tempismo a dir poco assurdo, nel senso negativo del termine. Non sono mai andato d’accordo con i miei coetanei perché ho sempre amato l’indipendenza e il lavoro. Non ho mai chiesto i soldi ai miei e ho sempre guadagnato da solo con dei lavoretti. Ho sempre avuto forti inclinazioni aziendali, legate all’ambizione, anche da adolescente: mi piaceva formare gruppi e fare progetti creativi, che puntassero sempre a risolvere un problema e guadagnare dei soldi. 

Jacobsen: What have been some professional certifications, qualifications, and trainings earned by you?

Hiroshi: La mia vita professionale si divide in due grandi fasi. Quella del lavoro in azienda come sviluppatore e comunicatore e quella da artista. Quindi ho varie certificazioni per studi e corsi che ho fatto come quelli di Adobe, quelli di Magento o di WordPress, una sfilza di certificazioni per corsi sulla gestione aziendale, ho anche una laurea in lingue che ho preso quando ero più giovane. Adesso sto prendendo la laurea in fisica. Ultimamente ho deciso di cancellare il mio background professionale e di focalizzarmi sulla fisica e sull’arte, possibilmente insieme. 

Ho lavorato così tanto, che adesso voglio solo far cose che mi piacciono. Per questo sto attualmente studiando social media, come essere freelance artista nel settore scientifico e come fare un buon lavoro di branding su me stesso. Le certificazioni sul quoziente intellettivo, però, non le ho prese perché mi servissero professionalmente. Le ho prese per risolvere un problema di insicurezza con l’università e perché speravo di ottenere un aiuto economico per poter studiare. Da studente lavoratore può essere molto frustrante non poter dedicare tutto il tempo possibile allo studio, che è la mia più grande passione. 

Allora ho inventato un lavoro dove il mio compito fosse studiare.

Jacobsen: What is the purpose of intelligence tests to you?

Hiroshi: I test di intelligenza forniscono un motore emotivo non indifferente, possono dare una risposta ad alcune domande, quando non ci si sente all’altezza di qualcosa o non accettati. La prima volta che ho fatto il test è stato per una risposta emotiva. All’università di fisica, un docente mi ha detto che non ero abbastanza intelligente per frequentare la facoltà, ho fatto il test per avere una controprova, una dimostrazione che lui si sbagliasse.
All’epoca non potevo permettermi di pagare le tasse e in verità, lo ammetto, volevo essere coccolato per la mia intelligenza. Penso sia corretto prendersi cura anche di persone molto intelligenti, anziché costringerle ad abbassarsi al livello degli altri, annoiandosi a morte. Per me, in una certa misura, il test superato con punteggio alto era anche un obbligo morale verso me stesso, non potevo dire di non essere abbastanza intelligente per fare qualcosa, se era mio dovere farla sicuramente avrei potuto portarla a termine, il test mi obbligava, ma mi permetteva anche di validarmi costantemente, di apprendere e quindi di diventare più intelligente di volta in volta: un meccanismo a feedback positivo di apprendimento.

Jacobsen: When was high intelligence discovered for you?

Hiroshi: Quando ero giovane mi sentivo più intelligente di tutti gli altri: programmavo, riparavo computer, studiavo, avevo un lavoro, nella mia testa era ovvio che fossi agli altri superiore e spesso li guardavo anche con sufficienza. 

Quando sono entrato nel vivo di questa questione e nel vivo dei miei studi, mi sono reso conto che c’era davvero qualcosa che non andava.
La prima associazione che ho conosciuto era per il 130-140, era il 2016, già studiavo fisica. Ero entrato per dimostrare a me stesso che ero abbastanza per frequentare la facoltà di fisica, nonostante fosse un’associazione per alti quozienti intellettivi, non li percepivo come persone a me superiori intellettualmente, mentre all’università mi sentivo comunque uguale a tutti quelli che frequentavano il corso di laurea, anzi, mi sentivo anche da meno rispetto a loro, molto più bravi di me sicuramente sulla parte applicativa. 

Certo, il problema poteva essere il retroterra, io avevo già una laurea in lettere, mentre molti di loro venivano dallo scientifico e avevano una forma mentis più adattata alle scienze e al loro modo di ragionare.


Successivamente, con il progredire degli anni scolastici, ho totalmente perso interesse verso il QI. Ad oggi, il mio QI è certificato a 164, e questo certificato non mi è servito a nulla, se non a indisporre le persone quando ne parlavo apparendo superbo. Io valuto le cose per la loro funzionalità. Il Qi certificato mi fa sentire diverso, attaccabile. Poi, in questo momento mi sento tutto tranne che sicuro delle mie capacità intellettuali. Se penso ai limiti della mia realtà e provo a ragionare come se fossi fuori dal sistema fisico di cui faccio parte, mi va in fumo la testa.
Mi sento limitato dalla attuale matematica, che come linguaggio da noi interpretato, sembra avere i nostri stessi limiti. Di fronte a quello che vedo, a quello che studio, mi sento piccolo. Quindi in verità la scoperta dell’intelligenza superiore è solo un’illusione, l’intelligenza è un fattore complesso, formato da uno spettro di capacità non intercambiabili e alienabili nel tempo. 

Jacobsen: When you think of the ways in which the geniuses of the past have either been mocked, vilified, and condemned if not killed, or praised, flattered, platformed, and revered, what seems like the reason for the extreme reactions to and treatment of geniuses? Many alive today seem camera shy – many, not all.

Hiroshi: Perché gli esseri umani non tollerano soluzioni a loro incomprensibili, il genio non è facilmente comprensibile e viene deriso, come l’Albatro di Baudelaire. L’essere umano deride ciò che non capisce, pensando che umiliare qualcosa faccia sparire il senso di inadeguatezza che prova, o il ridicolo di cui si copre. Per quanto riguarda l’essere timidi o meno di fronte a una telecamera, ogni persona è diversa e ogni categoria raccoglie infinite sfumature. La parola genio è un insieme dai contorni indefiniti e dalle proprietà poco chiare.

Jacobsen: Who seem like the greatest geniuses in history to you?

Hiroshi: Direi Dirac. Dopo Einstein, Noether, Godel e Heisenberg c’è Dirac, che è quello a cui mi sento più affine. Quello che ha distinto Dirac più di ogni altra cosa è la bellezza della matematica, e l’idea che la Fisica teorica si possa basare interamente sulla matematica non come strumento, ma come linguaggio capace di offrire accesso diretto ai meccanismi dell’universo. Dimostrò che è possibile, aprendo le porte a un nuovo modo di fare Fisica.
Dirac aveva una visione tutta sua del mondo esplicitata nell’affermazione “se la scienza è il tentativo di dire in parole comprensibili da tutti cose che prima la gente non conosceva, la poesia è il suo contrario, cioè la tendenza a parlare di cose risapute con parole oscure” . A me piace la poesia, ma Dirac ha ragione. Ci vuole meno opinionismo, più chiarezza e meno interpretazioni personali della natura. Il metodo scientifico ha bisogno di mostrare a tutti la sua bellezza ed eleganza. Quello che è il significato di bello in matematica, però, andrebbe approfondito. 

Jacobsen: What differentiates a genius from a profoundly intelligent person?

Hiroshi: Il genio sa mettere in comunicazione entrambi gli emisferi, sa come muoversi nella multidisciplinarietà, si sa autoalimentare e cercare le cose anche nei luoghi più impensabili. Una persona intelligente cerca nella propria razionalità e in sé le risposte. Il genio sa cercare le risposte fuori. La verità è che noi siamo un database non troppo ben programmato di ciò che vediamo. Inoltre, il genio capisce che la differenza tra realtà e fantasia è marcato solo dal duro lavoro, in fondo, genio viene da ingegno, non da intelletto.

Jacobsen: Is profound intelligence necessary for genius?

Hiroshi: No, l’intelligenza si sviluppa nel tempo, può essere allenata, la genialità è una forma mentis. Ha sicuramente basi genetiche, ma non bastano. Inoltre, avere capacità intellettuali alte non significa nulla: l’attitudine gioca un ruolo fondamentale.

Jacobsen: What have been some work experiences and jobs held by you?

Hiroshi: Ho fatto veramente tanti lavori nella mia vita, perché avevo bisogno di trovare la mia strada. Anche il mio percorso di studi è stato strano, ma in qualche modo tutto è riuscito a convergere in un unico punto. 

Ero un comunicatore, con capacità avanzate di sviluppo web e grafica.
Ho lavorato per importanti società sportive della serie A (calcio), ho lavorato per il dipartimento Aerospaziale e per aziende sempre legate all’aerospazio, ho fatto lavori per delle università e sono stato direttore tecnico di una tv nazionale orientata ai ragazzi dai 16 ai 25 anni. 

Tutte queste esperienze mi hanno portato alla consapevolezza di voler tornare giovane e sognare la mia carriera nella fisica teorica. Ora posso guardare gli studi di fisica con gli occhi di una persona più matura, più ricca di esperienze.

Al momento studio fisica a tempo pieno e il mio principale lavoro è fare l’illustratore scientifico e il comunicatore. Da poco, sto preparando un percorso da V-Tuber scientifico. Io amo la scienza e voglio mostrare la sua bellezza a quante più persone possibili, senza mai farla apparire noiosa. 

Jacobsen: Why pursue this particular job path?

Hiroshi: Ho dovuto costruire la mia stabilità economica giorno dopo giorno cogliendo davvero tutte le opportunità possibili. Ho sempre offerto servizi di comunicazione e sviluppo, ma sono partito dal basso. Ho sempre affiancato al mio lavoro da freelancer qualche progetto personale che fosse seriamente legato ai miei interessi personali.

Da quando mi sono iscritto alla seconda università per studiare fisica, ho dovuto fare i conti con il poco tempo, quindi ho iniziato via via a eliminare progetti personali e ridurre il numero dei clienti. Oggi non faccio più comunicazione per nessuno che non sia legato al settore scientifico / universitario. Lavoro principalmente come Illustratore scientifico, ma faccio anche cose più versatili, se il team di lavoro è gradevole e mi sono trovato bene.

Ho cominciato da poco, ma ho già ottenuto lavori per università molto importanti (nella top 10 nel 2020), finalmente posso dire di aver trovato la mia strada.


Non ha senso lavorare in un settore che non si ama alla follia: si diventa cinici e annoiati. Io studio per diventare un ricercatore in Fisica Teorica, ma lavoro ogni giorno per divulgare ai più giovani, offrire formazione gratuita, spiegare la scienza attraverso l’arte e il manga. Perché dopotutto sono un nerd che ci crede troppo.

Jacobsen: What are some of the more important aspects of the idea of the gifted and geniuses? Those myths that pervade the cultures of the world. What are those myths? What truths dispel them?

Hiroshi: Sono sempre cresciuto circondato da persone che mi ammiravano semplicemente perché sapevo fare tante cose e secondo loro bene, la verità è che ero curioso e iperattivo, ma ogni cosa che ho imparato l’ho imparata con sforzo: so disegnare e questo mi ha richiesto almeno dieci anni di studio, so parlare tante lingue, ma ho cominciato da piccolo e praticamente non ho mai smesso (l’anno scorso avevo pensato di trasferirmi in Danimarca e ho completato con successo il corso basico di lingua danese), oggi non vivo in Danimarca e ho dimenticato quasi tutto quello che avevo imparato, mentre nell’idea comune del genio lui impara subito senza sforzo e ricorda per sempre, cosa che non è assolutamente vera. 

Quindi il succo è che la necessità crea la virtù, impariamo le cose che ci servono e probabilmente il genio è colui che ha fatto dell’imparare il suo mestiere e che ha capito che gli serve imparare dell’altro per allenare il suo talento, proprio come uno sportivo continua ad allenarsi sempre di più per superare i propri limiti, la verità è che io un giorno ho deciso di voler diventare un genio e quindi ho iniziato a fare cose da geni, anche se non ho mai creduto nella genialità come fanno le persone comuni. 

Ho recitato la parte, ma non ho mai dimenticato il lavoro dietro le quinte, un po’ come farebbe un prestigiatore. Credo che le persone debbano innanzitutto capire che l’intelligenza (parte tecnica) e la genialità (attitudine e stato mentale) sono cose che si costruiscono e non è mai tardi per farlo. 

Io ho iniziato a costruirlo circa a 25 anni (molto tardi), e i risultati sono arrivati molto in fretta. Forse essere un genio è più vicino ad essere un influencer che a un filosofo, ispirare gli altri facendo ciò che si ama.
Non importa quanto siano grandi i numeri. 

Per esempio, quando mi sono iscritto all’università non avevo assolutamente idea di come fosse organizzata la fisica moderna, sapevo solo che ero interessato ai viaggi nel tempo, quindi ho letto di Einstein, di Dirac, di qualche altro nome famoso. Ho iniziato a suonare il violino a 27 anni perché Einstein lo suonava. Oggi Einstein non mi piace più come prima, ma il violino fa parte della mia vita.

Ho letto le biografie e ho cercato di leggere gli stessi libri, come nel caso di Einstein e Dirac, che hanno il pensiero più particolare possibile: ho scoperto che la base logica dei loro studi è stata realizzata attraverso la lettura della logica deduttiva di Mill. Ho comprato il libro e ho iniziato a leggerlo non appena me ne sono reso conto.

Cosa significa questo? Se vuoi essere uno sportivo devi pensare come uno sportivo, il talento è la conseguenza del fare qualcosa con passione immergendosi in quel modo di essere, che si impara a poco a poco. Quando dicono ‘volere è potere’ e che il duro lavoro da risultati è vero. Non si nasce geni, ma solo molto fortunati perché l’environment ti ha già messo in quella mentalità fin da piccolo. Se non sei stato fortunato puoi rimediare da solo.

Jacobsen: Any thoughts on the God concept or gods idea and philosophy, theology, and religion?

Hiroshi: Non credo in una figura divina come immaginata dalle grandi religioni monoteiste e la figura di una divinità disegnata in questo modo non è che uno strumento politico più che spirituale.

Il mio primo percorso universitario fu storia, culture e religioni.

Studiando fisica è difficile non credere proprio a nulla, ma credo che questo discorso meriti uno spazio a parte. Ciò che posso dire è che più studio più sento di essere piccolo. Più mi sento piccolo, più voglio crescere. Per me il concetto di Dio è questo senso di movimento. A volte ho immaginato l’esistenza del divino, in un luogo in cui lo ringrazio per aver creato qualcosa di così bello come l’universo. La verità è che prima di occuparci dei grandi quesiti della filosofia, dobbiamo avere armi migliori. 

Jacobsen: How much does science play into the worldview for you?

Hiroshi: La scienza è il fondamento di ogni singolo evento che avviene nel mondo. In biologia si dice che nulla ha senso se non alla luce dell’evoluzione, la fisica arriva ad un livello ancora più viscerale, così viscerale da lasciarti senza parole. Io amo la scienza più di ogni altra cosa: da ex umanista dico che la bellezza della fisica è qualcosa che può comunicare all’anima meglio di come farebbe una terzina di Dante.

Ciò che mi muove, ogni giorno, è la scienza. Voglio assolutamente conoscerla meglio, giorno dopo giorno. Non riesco a immaginare un mondo in cui la fisica non fa parte della mia esistenza. 

Jacobsen: What have been some of the tests taken and scores earned (with standard deviations) for you?

Hiroshi: Ho fatto un Test Mensa, test Fiqure con 164 (SD15), Test ENST20 di cui non ricordo il punteggio, ma sempre tra 158 e 165. Tutte le deviazioni sono sd15. Volevo poi concentrarmi sull’ottenere una certificazione da 170+ perché nella mia visione del mondo del QI non è vero che sei 160 resti 160. Alzando la soglia aerobica del cervello il QI può salire, proprio come accade in palestra. 

Purtroppo però il fatto che dovessi lavorare molto e che quando ho chiesto una scholarship per potermi focalizzare sugli studi, fosse più importante lo stato di povertà rispetto alle mie capacità intellettuali mi ha gettato in una profonda crisi, non solo: parlare del proprio QI ti mette in una situazione compromessa, le persone ti dicono che vuoi metterti al di sopra degli altri, che certificare l’intelligenza è una stupidaggine e quindi ho smesso di preoccuparmi di provare altri test più elevati perché non riuscivo a vedere alcun vantaggio raggiungibile. Allo stato attuale voglio riuscire a farmi ammettere in un’università del calibro di Cambridge (in realtà vorrei proprio Cambridge), da quello che ho capito contano molto di più i progetti nel portfolio, piuttosto che un esagerato QI. Quindi nonostante la mia ambizione mi abbia fatto pensare di voler provare la GIGA dopo la 4G alla fine ho perso la ragione dietro lo scopo. Alla fine, intelligenti o meno, abbiamo sempre bisogno di una comunità di cui sentirci parte e da cui sentirci protetti, con cui condividere scopi e visioni.

Jacobsen: What is the range of the scores for you? The scores earned on alternative intelligence tests tend to produce a wide smattering of data points rather than clusters, typically.

Hiroshi:  Generalmente 162 o 164, non ricordo con precisione. Una volta c’è stato un 151, così come un 172. Mi piace pensare 164, perché la mia ragazza ha fatto un 166 e mi piace dire che abbia qualche punto in più rispetto a me, perché lo trovo divertente e anche molto stimolante. 

Jacobsen: What ethical philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Hiroshi: Ho scritto il mio personale Sentiero Etico nel corso degli ultimi 10 anni, mescolando visioni e filosofie, anche contrastanti tra di loro, dal momento che la società moderna è combinazione lineare di queste filosofie, anche quelle dicotomiche. 

La mia etica mi impone di non perdere tempo in sciocchi pensieri, di lavorare duramente per prendermi ciò che voglio a qualunque costo, essere sincero e mostrare sempre la mia volontà, in ogni occasione. Non mentire e usare la verità come arma, essere sempre fedele a me stesso. 

Rifiutare il pregiudizio in ogni sua forma, restare curioso. Imparare da tutti e offrire sempre qualcosa della propria esperienza da insegnare. Ricercare, sperimentare.
Combattere i propri difetti e migliorarsi, porsi degli obiettivi molto ambiziosi, ogni anno raggiungerne almeno la metà. Lanciare sfide all’improbabilità, per trovarsi in una vita sempre in cambiamento. Improbabile chiama improbabile, quindi occasioni diverse, ogni volta. 

Vivere nel culto della propria visione. La vita è troppo breve per sacrificarci, dobbiamo vivere a pieno per noi stessi. Se non è possibile, si prova l’impossibile.

Jacobsen: What social philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Hiroshi: In questo momento della mia vita sto studiando per la prima volta con interesse le dinamiche sociali e mi sto approcciando all’intelligenza emotiva. Personalmente ho avuto un background particolarmente severo e selvaggio, per cui non apprezzo degli approcci troppo morbidi, ma credo che dipenda dai tipi di persone. La verità è che non mi piace circondarmi di persone rammollite, anche se la mia natura di curioso mi spinge più a voler capire che a giudicare. 

Sono ben lontano dall’aver afferrato la comprensione sociale e cerco di non cadere nella trappola dell’ipocrisia, ma spero tra qualche anno di essere in grado di rispondere a questa domanda. Per ora dico che sono transgender (nato donna, diventato uomo) e quindi le questioni di genere dovrebbero essere il mio punto di riferimento. Probabilmente, però, mi interessa solo discutere delle dimensioni sociali della conoscenza scientifica e di una filosofia che ruoti attorno a questo. Un po’ come accadeva nei primi del novecento.

Jacobsen: What economic philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Hiroshi: Personalmente, credo che il capitalismo sia qualcosa di non sostenibile. Ma la possibilità di non poter accrescere il proprio patrimonio mi spaventa. Se in futuro ci fosse un pagamento in tempo e servizi, non credo sarei felice. Perché sono pigro e perché costruisco possibilità lavorative soprattutto basate su ottimizzazioni.

Jacobsen: What political philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Hiroshi: Odio la democrazia, quando questa non ha senso di esistere. Vivo in un paese dove le persone non sanno di cosa parlano. Il senso civico è al minimo e la situazione è di profonda crisi. Persone che parlano di terra piatta, di complotti, di non volere i vaccini e quant’altro. Queste persone hanno il mio stesso diritto di votare. Questa democrazia, come diceva Platone, non ha senso ed è una forte degenerazione. Ciascuno ha un peso. Uno non vale uno, in questo contesto. 

Ad oggi l’unica filosofia politica a me gradevole è il legalismo cinese, che proviene dal confucianesimo. Da lì la geniocrazia, che vede come suo principio base misurare la cruda intelligenza, dando diritto di voto solo a chi ha un’intelligenza superiore alla media di una certa percentuale, mentre la possibilità di governo è solo per i geni, cioè quelle persone più intelligenti della media in modo notevole. Diciamo 10 e 50% rispettivamente. Si tratterebbe quindi di una democrazia selettiva, che non trascura l’intelligenza emotiva e le capacità di introspettività.

Jacobsen: What metaphysics makes some sense to you, even the most workable sense to you?

Hiroshi: Come il quadrato magico del SATOR, ogni fenomeno metafisico è solo un fenomeno fisico non ancora spiegato, è solo questione di tempo. Sta alla nostra sensibilità e alla nostra attitudine decidere se Sator si riferisce a una visione cattolica in cui si manifesta il divino (Ego Sum Alpha et Omega, nella lettura decifrata del sator), una traduzione non ufficiale, più che altro ipotetica, come “Sator Abrepo, Opera tenet rotas” cioè il seminatore si dilegua, la sua opera continua da sé, o una semplice matrice simmetrica.
Io, come ho detto, ho vissuto prima da umanista, quindi il fatto che solo ora veda la matrice simmetrica mi fa riflettere molto. Nulla dimostra quale sia la vera interpretazione, ma nulla dimostra che la realtà sia univoca. 

A ogni modo, quello che vedo con i miei occhi è che la volontà è la più bella metafisica in cui voglio credere. Nelle emozioni c’è la forza dietro il movimento. Mi sembra la cosa più rilevante. La fisica ha il ruolo di spiegare l’inspiegabile, che sia effetto fotoelettrico o abracadabra per noi questo non deve essere limitante. Dopotutto, l’effetto fotoelettrico di oggi era l’abracadabra di ieri.

Jacobsen: What worldview-encompassing philosophical system makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Hiroshi: Ad oggi non è stato prodotto un pensiero filosofico adatto ed è per questo motivo che la società è ancora involuta. Se i filosofi fossero un po’ più attenti ai processi logici da adottare, anziché forgiare idee sul malcontento, magari avrebbero più valore per me. 

Jacobsen: What provides meaning in life for you?

Hiroshi: Ci sono due cose che danno senso alla mia vita. La prima, sicuramente la più importante di tutte per me, è essere riconosciuto come me stesso. La seconda cosa è banale: cercare una spiegazione all’esistenza, come facevano gli antichi filosofi greci. Per fare questo bisogna rompere le barriere del proprio intelletto, cosa tutt’altro che facile, ed è per questo che è mio obbiettivo seguire processi logici non lineari, ma trascendenti (nel senso matematico del termine).

Jacobsen: Is meaning externally derived, internally generated, both, or something else?

Hiroshi: Non esiste un interno o un esterno, perché non siamo un sistema chiuso con processi adiabatici. 

Jacobsen: Do you believe in an afterlife? If so, why, and what form? If not, why not?

Hiroshi: Proprio in questi ultimi tempi volevo parlare con un frigorifero, credo che campi elettromagnetici e coscienza siano strettamente legati e credo, inoltre, che non ci sia molta differenza tra i nostri processi cognitivi e la computazione di un computer quantistico, quindi mi sono fatto l’idea che c’è una spiegazione a tutta l’eredità filosofica religiosa e letteraria lasciata dai nostri avi. Le forme ricorrenti e i miti sono forse un punto di partenza per la scienza. Quando la sera vado a dormire, penso sempre che quando morirò sarò un’onda elettromagnetica scaricata a terra in tanti piccoli frammenti o che ha la possibilità di viaggiare nel vuoto dell’universo per un tempo molto lungo. Se posso avanzare una speranza mi piacerebbe credere che non esista la reincarnazione, né la morte nel senso epicureo, ma che sia una trasformazione di fase, in cui finalmente potrò esplorare l’universo e farne parte in un’altra forma, purché cosciente. Detesto questo senso di impotenza, vorrei sapere di più.

Jacobsen: What do you make of the mystery and transience of life?

Hiroshi: Mi piacerebbe che Einstein avesse ragione quando dice che Dio non gioca a dadi, ma il problema è che lo fa, almeno a quanto dimostra la disuguaglianza di Bell, però in una delle mie idee molto fantasiose forse c’è un’altra spiegazione. Dopo i miei studi magistrali, se quest’idea resisterà alle intemperie della conoscenza, cercherò di approfondire e perché no: magari dimostrare.

Jacobsen: What is love to you? 

Hiroshi: Quando Platone parla delle anime divise non era andato molto lontano. La persona che amo è il mio opposto, così opposto da essere complementare, è sicuramente più intelligente di me, ma anche più stupida (nel senso simpatico del termine). Si occupa di biologia e riesce non solo a capire ciò che penso, ma nutrire nuovi pensieri. Probabilmente siccome quando penso a noi mi viene in mente la mano sinistra sulla corda di violino e la destra che tiene l’archetto, probabilmente l’amore non è altro che la musica prodotta.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Member, ISI-Society.

[2] Individual Publication Date: March 1, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/hiroshi; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Free of Charge 7 – “Amsterdam Declaration” (2002), Indigeneity and Humanism, and Beyond Western-Dominant Humanism

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/03/01

Abstract

Dr. Herb Silverman is the Founder of the Secular Coalition for America, the Founder of the Secular Humanists of the Lowcountry, and the Founder of the Atheist/Humanist Alliance student group at the College of Charleston. He authored Complex variables (1975), Candidate Without a Prayer: An Autobiography of a Jewish Atheist in the Bible Belt (2012) and An Atheist Stranger in a Strange Religious Land: Selected Writings from the Bible Belt (2017). He co-authored The Fundamentals of Extremism: The Christian Right in America (2003) with Kimberley Blaker and Edward S. Buckner, Complex Variables with Applications (2007) with Saminathan Ponnusamy, and Short Reflections on Secularism (2019), Short Reflections on American Secularism’s History and Philosophy (2020), and Short Reflections on Age and Youth (2020). He discusses: Amsterdam Declaration 2002 and possibly “Amsterdam Declaration 2022”; points preliminarily brought forward for the new declaration; things to add to the potential new declaration; human intelligence and non-human intelligence rights; the environment; non-Western traditions of Humanism for formal inclusion; Indigeneity and Humanism; Amsterdam Declaration 2002; and the ultimate fate of religious ethics.

Keywords: Amsterdam Declaration, Herb Silverman, Free of Charge, freethought, Humanism, Indigeneity, Western.

Free of Charge 7 – “Amsterdam Declaration” (2002), Indigeneity and Humanism, and Beyond Western-Dominant Humanism

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: The philosophy of Humanism[1] does not dictate to its adherents, as in a top-down dogma requiring thou shalts and thou shalt nots on some firm, transcendentalist basis. The supernatural only gets invoked as a negation of it. Even with the organizations and the statements, these amount to individuated communities and documents with individual choice as the ultimate arbiter. It took about 50 years for an advancement of the Amsterdam Declaration 1952 into the Amsterdam Declaration 2002.[2] There has been a call by the team at Humanists International for an advancement into a third edition of the Amsterdam declarations in particular. This may move forward, or has moved forward, for requests on proper ways in which to add updated concerns to the proposed third edition of the Amsterdam Declaration.  The most recent version from 2002 (Humanists International) has been translated into 35 languages.[3] If an updated version proceeds in 2022, then this will be the 70th anniversary of the foundation of the organization, Humanists International, formerly the International Humanist and Ethical Union, and the third version of the Amsterdam declarations. Some of the conversations ranged around sport or physical activity, non-human intelligence, the environment, and non-Western sources within the humanist tradition. Fundamentally, what is the difference in a philosophical stance representing evolutionary changes even to ethical founding documents compared to others declaring foundational texts as complete and comprehensive for all time with nothing ever capable of edit, as in Quranic theological orientations – can’t edit it – akin to the necessity of acceptance of the resurrection of Christ in Christianity? In short, what makes foundational evolution of an empirically informed ethic better than an unchanging asserted morality in centuries-old texts?

Dr. Herb Silverman[4],[5]*: Evolution made it possible for us to becomeHomo sapiens (humans), though my DNA shows that I am 3% Neanderthal. Charles Darwin felt that a difference between Homo sapiens and other animals is our moral sense. He said that our enhanced ability to cooperate may be the most significant distinction between us and our closest evolutionary relatives. Such cooperation, along with concern for others and a sense of fairness, may be the basis of morality in humans. Since evolution works so slowly, I don’t think we can relate evolution to how moral behavior differs in humans today, often based more on philosophical or theological differences.

You ask why our empirically informed ethic today is better than an unchanging, asserted morality in centuries-old texts. Science is empirical and thriveson disagreement and on a willingness to question assumptions critically, while we search for evidence until a consensus is reached. Centuries-old texts, often called “holy” books, were written by scientifically ignorant men. Their ideas of ethics included discriminating against gays, not allowing women to have responsible positions, punishing blasphemers and heretics, and advocating for holy wars. Tying our principles to unchanging, dogmatic religious text makes no sense. Morality, to us, involves using available evidence to help decide what actions might be for the greater good of humanity. We base our ethics on what we learn from human experience, which includes the efforts of thoughtful people throughout history who have worked toward achieving their ideals. We also know that some of our values might change as our knowledge and understanding advances.

Jacobsen: For those points brought forward, “sport or physical activity, non-human intelligence, the environment, and non-Western sources within the humanist tradition,” what seems like the relevance of each to the potential next edition of the declaration?

Silverman: I’ll address your question of “sport or physical activity” here. The other parts (non-human intelligence, the environment, non-Western sources) are asked about in your other questions, so I will answer those later.

Regarding sport or physical activity, I think we should encourage people to remain active for as long as they can. Playing sports, preferably non-contact, can be fun and help us keep a sound mind and body. At 78, I no longer play sports, but I exercise a lot. I walk a few miles every day with my wife, Sharon. We also lift weights or swim several times a week. What I don’t like to see are so many people who only watch others play sports. When a professional player on their favorite team hits a home run or scores a goal, they congratulate each other, as if they themselves deserve credit for it. Being active in sports (and in life) is beneficial; being passive is not.

Jacobsen: Would you add anything else for consideration to such a new Amsterdam declaration?

Silverman: I wouldadd more suggestions on how humanists and others can improve their quality of life. In addition to physical activity, we could mention the importance of having a good diet (perhaps vegetarian), getting enough sleep, reducing stress (perhaps through yoga, meditation, or other relaxation techniques), and having a sense of humor with lots of laughter.

Jacobsen: What is the core of human intelligence? What seem like the prospects for non-human intelligence and the possibility for rights (and responsibilities) applied to non-human operators? Prominent humanists, e.g., Isaac Asimov, posited science fiction ideas of positronic brains, and the like, exploring ideas like these well before the current crop of humanists.[6] These likely have been stewing since that time, potentially even more so in the Computer Age.

Silverman: Human intelligence is the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills. Intelligence has evolved in animals, perhaps many times. We must not forget that non-human animals can also be intelligent. Thinking about other intelligent animals causes some humans emotional distress because they may eat these animals or use them for neurobiology research.

When it comes to robots, perhaps one day they may be designed to have consciousness, and we will deal then with those implications. Isaac Asimov wrote science fiction stories about robots with a positron brain that functions as a central processing unit and, in some unspecified way, provides these robots with a form of consciousness recognizable to humans. I loved Asimov, who was president of the American Humanist Association from 1985 until his death in 1992. But keep in mind that his wonderful scientific fiction robot stories were still fiction. I hope one day we will have conscious robots, but I don’t expect to see that come to pass in my lifetime.

Jacobsen: What makes the environment a core necessity as this time, especially with the ongoing climate crisis temporarily overshadowed by the coronavirus pandemic?

Silverman: I think even now that the ongoing climate crisis should not be overshadowed by the coronavirus pandemic. The pandemic will pass, but the climate crisis might never pass, only get worse. The scientific consensus at the moment seems to be that we need scientific breakthroughs and global cooperation to avoid a catastrophic rise in temperatures and climate disaster.

Jacobsen: Something which I consider important is the inclusion of non-Western, even Indigenous, proposals into the humanist canon formally. For example, the definition provided about indigeneity by the United Nations in “Indigenous Peoples at the United Nations” states:

Indigenous peoples are inheritors and practitioners of unique cultures and ways of relating to people and the environment. They have retained social, cultural, economic and political characteristics that are distinct from those of the dominant societies in which they live. Despite their cultural differences, indigenous peoples from around the world share common problems related to the protection of their rights as distinct peoples.

Indigenous peoples have sought recognition of their identities, way of life and their right to traditional lands, territories and natural resources for years, yet throughout history, their rights have always been violated. Indigenous peoples today, are arguably among the most disadvantaged and vulnerable groups of people in the world. The international community now recognizes that special measures are required to protect their rights and maintain their distinct cultures and way of life. Find below a short history of the indigenous struggle in the international stage.[7]

This is a good start for humanists, possibly. I have been given permission by the Aboriginal Committee, as a member (non-Aboriginal) of the committee for Humanist Canada, to submit a point of reflection via a letter to the representatives of Humanists International.[8] As far as I know, this was a first, which was sent in March of 2020. Different regions and cultures have different flavours of Humanism and distinct difficulties against religious fundamentalism and state totalitarianism. How can proposals, such as these, provide neither a negative view on Western-based Humanism nor a rejection of the current mostly Western-based Humanism, but an expansive global Humanism inclusive of the tastes, sights, sounds, flavours, and unique manifestations of Humanism seen around the world? Those more rounded perspectives can provide a better vision of Humanism and, in turn, a more complete and comprehensive envisioning of Humanism vis-à-vis a more comprehensive and complete imagining of human nature and potentialities.

Silverman: We tend to focus on Western culture and assume that other cultures should behave more like us. Perhaps sometimes they should, and sometimes they shouldn’t. We need to learn more about these cultures and watch how they interact with others, including with us.

One of my most memorable experiences was being a Visiting Mathematics Professor for a semester in 1987 at the University of Papua New Guinea in Port Moresby. My colleagues there treated me very well. Over eight hundred languages are spoken in Papua New Guinea, reflecting the isolation of its many tribes. Not only were most students at UPNG the first in their families to go to college, they were the first to leave their village tribes. Part of our mission was to persuade students not to continue their ongoing tribal disputes at the university, avoiding the “payback” system in PNG. A tribal member at the university explained to me how the payback system worked. If a member from Tribe A killed a member from Tribe B, a designated member from Tribe B could legally kill any member from Tribe A. If he killed more than one member, “payback” would again kick in. Fortunately, the university was a payback-free zone.

In the late 1920s and early 1930s, Australian explorers discovered the highlands of PNG, home to roughly one million people who had never before encountered Europeans. In a video I saw of this “first contact,” one PNG woman said they thought white people were gods, but changed their minds after having sex with them. Women in PNG were treated unbelievably poorly. Village men typically resided in a house, while women and pigs (yes, pigs!) lived together in a shack behind the house. Both women and pigs were sold or used for barter, the woman/pig ratio depending on the quality of both the women and the pigs. (This, of course, does not apply to men and women at the university.)

The country was teeming with missionaries of all kinds. Most tried to improve the lives of the inhabitants, usually accompanied by attempts at religious conversion. I hope missionaries now have become more humanistic than when I was there. At the time, I asked one priest why he deplored the practice of bare-breasted women, but said nothing about wife beating, which was legal there. He told me they couldn’t change everything that was wrong in the country, and bare breasts were a good place to start. Shortly thereafter, the university held a beauty pageant with five participants, four of whom were bare breasted. When I saw that the primary judge was this same missionary, I confidently predicted the winner to my colleagues. After the breast-covered woman won, my colleagues showed an undeserved respect for my powers of judging beauty.

Jacobsen: The second Amsterdam declaration (2002) or the Amsterdam Declaration 2002 posited a number of core values.[9] Its foci are ethics, rationality, ethical, “democracy and human rights,” “that personal liberty must be combined with social responsibility,” a response to the widespread demand for an alternative to dogmatic religion,” “values artistic creativity and imagination and recognises the transforming power of art,” and “a lifestance aiming at the maximum possible fulfilment.”[10] Non-dogmatic principles for being in the world. These are so in line with cosmopolitan global values and positive scientific uses more than almost any other philosophical system known to me. As our ethics advance more and more, how do the more faith-based ethics appear in comparison year-by-year?

Silverman: Assuming faith-based ethics is not an oxymoron, I think more and more people are adopting our improving humanist ethics. This is especially true of younger people, most of whom no longer believe that homosexuality is a sin, willingly accept transgender people, think men and women should be treated equally, and agree that no law should prohibit abortion under all circumstances.

Jacobsen: What is the ultimate fate of religious ethics?

Silverman: Probably there will always be people who follow what they consider to be religious ethics. I hope most of those people will have a religion that allows them the flexibility to follow their own conscience, without being restricted to following everything in a book that was written thousands of years before. I have no problem with nontheistic religions, all of which seem to be humanistic.

Jacobsen: Thank you for the opportunity and your time, Dr. Silverman.

Silverman: Thank you.

References

American Humanist Association. (2021). Definition of Humanism. Retrieved from https://americanhumanist.org/what-is-humanism/definition-of-humanism/

Grudin, R. (2020, October 22). Humanism. Encyclopedia Britannica. Retrieved from https://www.britannica.com/topic/humanism

Humanist Canada. (2021). What is Humanism?. Retrieved from https://www.humanistcanada.ca/about/humanism/

Humanists International. (1952). Amsterdam Declaration 1952. Retrieved from https://humanists.international/policy/amsterdam-declaration-1952/

Humanists International. (2002). Amsterdam Declaration 2002. Retrieved from https://humanists.international/policy/amsterdam-declaration-2002/

Humanists International. (2021). What is humanism?. Retrieved from https://humanists.international/what-is-humanism/

Humanists UK. (2021). Humanism. Retrieved from https://humanism.org.uk/humanism/

Memory Alpha. (2021). Positronic Brain. Retrieved from https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Positronic_brain

United Nations. (n.d.). Indigenous Peoples at the United Nations. Retrieved from https://www.un.org/development/desa/indigenouspeoples/about-us.html

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Grudin (2020), Humanist Canada (2021), Humanists UK (2021), American Humanist Association (2021), and Humanists International (2021).

[2] Humanists International (2002) and Humanists International (1952).

[3] Humanists International (2002).

[4]Founder, Secular Coalition for America;Founder, Secular Humanists of the Low Country; Founder, Atheist/Humanist Alliance, College of Charleston.

[5] Individual Publication Date: March 1, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/free-of-charge-7; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

[6] Memory Alpha (2021).

[7] United Nations (n.d.).

[8] The letter in full as follows:

I send as an independent proposal and through filtration of the Aboriginal Committee of Humanist Canada. In other words, I send this based on prior correspondence alongside feedback caveats from the Aboriginal Committee of Humanist Canada, of which I am a part, in addition to personal justifications and qualifications before too. This amounts to the formalized presentation, numerically ordered (not by importance), of the caveats from Humanist Canada’s Aboriginal Committee and myself. The document below entitled “Indigenous and Tribal Peoples’ Formal Recognition in the Global Humanist Movement” implies global democratic Humanism before comprehensive consultation with the international Humanist indigenous and tribal peoples diaspora should:

  1. not speak for indigenous or tribal peoples in general;
  2. not speak for indigenous or tribal peoples who are humanist;
  3. not take this draft statement as a declaration, resolution, or policy;
  4. take this as a statement of reflection and consideration for the global democratic body of Humanism to seriously consider endorsing established international documents like the UNDRIP; and
  5. further serious reflection on the inclusion and furtherance of consultation and dialogue with humanist groups around the world in bringing in feedback from and having consultation with the humanist indigenous and tribal people diaspora in the “over 70 countries” and beyond?

I drafted the below alone – taking full responsibility for negative and positive implications of its presentation to Humanists International – with feedback (with minor alterations) from the Aboriginal Committee of Humanist Canada:

Indigenous and Tribal Peoples’ Formal Recognition in the Global Humanist Movement

Indigenous and tribal peoples continue to muster and garner deserved recognition in international institutional and rights documents, including the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples (UNDRIP) from September of 2007 and the International Labour Organization (ILO) Convention 169(Indigenous and Tribal Peoples Convention) from 1989, and, by the nature of Humanism, deserve formal recognition in the global democratic Humanist movement too.

Global democratic Humanism marches forward in its greater moves towards a true representation of the vibrant fabric of the human species with more nations, peoples, and flavours of Humanist communities accepted into the international community in a formal manner in spite of the short period ebbs and flows of theocracy and secularity, authoritarianism and democracy, xenophobia and inclusivity, superstition and science, and, indeed, supernaturalism and naturalism. An oft-neglected sector of the international community comes from minorities within minorities. One such sector of the global humanist movement emerges in the context of indigenous and tribal peoples throughout the world. More than 370 million indigenous and tribal people exist in over 70 countries in the world based on estimations of the International Labour Organization (ILO). Those indigenous and tribal peoples recognized in international rights documents including the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples (UNDRIP), adopted by the General Assembly of the United Nations in September 2007, and the ILO Convention 169 (Indigenous and Tribal Peoples Convention, 1989). Together considered the highest standards and singularly comprehensive international instruments available to the indigenous and tribal peoples throughout the world in the defence of their most basic human rights, in particular, with the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights as the oldest and most general. When Humanism enters into the practical applications of daily living and ordinary recognition in a global democratic movement and capacity, Humanists International performs a fundamental role in this regard, especially as its evolution incorporates previously unheard voices and unseen faces. For the full flourishing of the global Humanist movement, indigenous and tribal peoples throughout the world who adhere to the principles of Humanism deserve recognition and support at the international level. This instantiates the first formal effort as such, in the tradition of global democratic Humanism.

We recognise: 

  • the Preamble stipulations of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (1948) on “the dignity and worth of the human person and in the equal rights of men and women,” “a common standard of achievement for all peoples and all nations,” and with special emphasis on Article 1 stating “all human beings are born free and equal,” Article 2 stating “everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms… without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status… [or] on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs,” Article 7, Article 15, Article 18, Article 20, Article 22, and Article 28;
  • the International Labour Organization (ILO) Convention 169or Indigenous and Tribal Peoples Convention (1989) subjective and objective criteria for the inclusion as indigenous peoples or tribal peoples within an international context in Article 1, and with special emphasis on Article 2, Article 3, Article 5(a) and 5(b), Article 6(1)(a), Article 7(1), Article 27(1) and 27(2), Article 28, Article 29, Article 31, Article 34, Article 35, and Article 36;
  • the Amsterdam Declaration (2002) affirms the “worth, dignity and autonomy of the individual,” “human rights can be applied to many human relationships and are not restricted to methods of government,” “Humanism is undogmatic, imposing no creed upon its adherents,” and “Humanism is a lifestance aiming at the maximum possible fulfilment… [and] can be a way of life for everyone everywhere.” 
  • the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples(2007) in full.

We support:

  • the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (1948);
  • the International Labour Organization (ILO) Convention 169 or Indigenous and Tribal Peoples Convention (1989);
  • the Amsterdam Declaration (2002); and
  • the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples (2007).  

Suggested academic reference

‘Indigenous and Tribal Peoples’ Formal Recognition in the Global Humanist Movement‘, Humanists International, General Assembly, Miami, United States, 2020

The Reconciliation with indigenous peoples (2000-11) for Australia represented a generic and national, not international, statement.

[9] “Amsterdam Declaration 2002” states:

  • Humanism is ethical. It affirms the worth, dignity and autonomy of the individual and the right of every human being to the greatest possible freedom compatible with the rights of others. Humanists have a duty of care to all of humanity including future generations. Humanists believe that morality is an intrinsic part of human nature based on understanding and a concern for others, needing no external sanction.
  • Humanism is rational. It seeks to use science creatively, not destructively. Humanists believe that the solutions to the world’s problems lie in human thought and action rather than divine intervention. Humanism advocates the application of the methods of science and free inquiry to the problems of human welfare. But Humanists also believe that the application of science and technology must be tempered by human values. Science gives us the means but human values must propose the ends.
  • Humanism supports democracy and human rights. Humanism aims at the fullest possible development of every human being. It holds that democracy and human development are matters of right. The principles of democracy and human rights can be applied to many human relationships and are not restricted to methods of government.
  • Humanism insists that personal liberty must be combined with social responsibility. Humanism ventures to build a world on the idea of the free person responsible to society, and recognises our dependence on and responsibility for the natural world. Humanism is undogmatic, imposing no creed upon its adherents. It is thus committed to education free from indoctrination.
  • Humanism is a response to the widespread demand for an alternative to dogmatic religion. The world’s major religions claim to be based on revelations fixed for all time, and many seek to impose their world-views on all of humanity. Humanism recognises that reliable knowledge of the world and ourselves arises through a continuing process. of observation, evaluation and revision.
  • Humanism values artistic creativity and imagination and recognises the transforming power of art. Humanism affirms the importance of literature, music, and the visual and performing arts for personal development and fulfilment.
  • Humanism is a lifestance aiming at the maximum possible fulfilment through the cultivation of ethical and creative living and offers an ethical and rational means of addressing the challenges of our times. Humanism can be a way of life for everyone everywhere.

Humanists International (2002).

[10] Ibid.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Daniel Hilton on Family, Intelligence, Genius, and Philosophy: Member, Glia Society (1)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/03/01

Abstract

Daniel Hilton is a Member of the Glia Society. He discusses: growing up; a sense of an extended self; the family background; the experience with peers and schoolmates; some professional certifications; the purpose of intelligence tests; high intelligence discovered; the extreme reactions to and treatment of geniuses; the greatest geniuses in history; a genius from a profoundly intelligent person; profound intelligence necessary for genius; work experiences and jobs; particular job path; the gifted and geniuses; God; science; the tests taken and scores earned (with standard deviations); the range of the scores; ethical philosophy; social philosophy; economic philosophy; political philosophy; metaphysics; philosophical system; meaning in life; meaning externally derived, internally generated; an afterlife; the mystery and transience of life; and love.

Keywords: Daniel Hilton, family, Glia Society, intelligence, IQ, genius, Mensa International.

Conversation with Daniel Hilton on Family, Intelligence, Genius, and Philosophy: Member, Glia Society (1)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

*Interview completed December 17, 2020.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: When you were growing up, what were some of the prominent family stories being told over time?

Daniel Hilton[1],[2]*: That is not really how our family worked, we had many good outings and holidays, but I feel we lived in the moment rather than spending time looking back.

Jacobsen: Have these stories helped provide a sense of an extended self or a sense of the family legacy?

Hilton: As above, we were more focused on the here and now.

Jacobsen: What was the family background, e.g., geography, culture, language, and religion or lack thereof?

Hilton: Unless I am mistaken, I am of Anglo-Irish heritage, I grew up mainly in the North of England and Yorkshire is home, we are an English-speaking household, I am British and for my part I am an atheist.

Jacobsen: How was the experience with peers and schoolmates as a child and an adolescent?

Hilton: I very much enjoyed school, though high school age comes with many trials for most, I was no different. I enjoyed learning the subjects I was naturally quite good at, Mathematics, Science, History and Geography for example. On reflection I was less committed in subjects that fell outside my sphere of interest, though I doubt I am alone in that. I certainly should have worked harder at school; I met some talented individuals who were blessed with intelligence and commitment. I remained in the same school throughout my Senior years, this brought a sense of familiarity and community, it was a large school, so there were always like-minded peers amongst the many students there. I was fortunate to have a group of friends outside school, mostly from other schools that was important to me during the latter part of my adolescence, these friends were the ones I really connected with as I lived close to them and we grew up together.

Jacobsen: What have been some professional certifications, qualifications, and trainings, earned by you?

Hilton: UK education, GCSEs and A Levels and a Mathematics Degree from Birmingham University, PGCE qualifications in Mathematics and Research in Education. I occasionally take courses with the Open University at Master’s level, but I have no real interest in completing a full Master’s degree as the bulk of the courses do not interest me. The things I want to know are readily available online and I can find clear explanations of what it is I wish to understand without expending the time, effort or money needed to secure official certification. Indeed, this for me demonstrates the key difference between intelligence and cleverness. If you take a textbook, someone clever who has studied it would be able to explain the material to you, whereas someone profoundly intelligent is quietly confident that if, and when, they read it, they will readily understand it.

Jacobsen: What is the purpose of intelligence tests to you?

Hilton: I enjoy the questions, when I have spare time I like to think about a puzzle, after mulling a problem over a deeper level of thinking emerges in my mind, and occasionally insight forms and a solution presents itself, other times there is no end product, but it is a depth of thinking and focus that rarely takes place in normal life and it has a deeply cathartic effect on my state of mind. Most high-range IQ tests are untimed so you can spend many hours thinking about a problem before having an insight, if that ever comes to pass.

Jacobsen: When was high intelligence discovered for you?

Hilton: I was 27 when I took the Mensa test, I had recently entered the teaching profession and was working at a Grammar school with many bright students and staff. I felt right at home in that environment. It was a gradual realisation that I was able to quickly understand anything that was presented to me without repetition, regardless of context or complexity. As a teacher you see, and of course guide, the learning process up close and the hard work the vast majority of students put in becomes evident. It dawned on me that I had needed to work as hard as those I was teaching and I began to wonder why? I have since developed a more focused attitude to learning and more importantly understanding.

Jacobsen: When you think of the ways in which the geniuses of the past have either been mocked, vilified, and condemned if not killed, or praised, flattered, platformed, and revered, what seems like the reason for the extreme reactions to and treatment of geniuses? Many alive today seem camera shy – many, not all.

Hilton: For me this is just statistics in action, in any field, group, skill, or whatever you choose to investigate, there will be those who perform to the upper end of the scale, let us assume we are using a normal curve and left to right is a trait becoming more positive. Human beings are fundamentally competitive, so those on the extreme left of the scale in any measure will be looked down up by the majority, pitied, vilified, criminalised (depending on the context). Conversely, those at the extreme right of the scale will be envied by the bulk of the population, this can manifest itself as respect, support, hatred, exclusion, the response really depends on how that individual/culture views that particular trait and how tolerant they are of it expressing itself differently and strongly.

We are each on a near infinite array of these normal distributions representing every attribute of human existence, for most traits we are in the central region and thus fit in relatively anonymously with the wider population. But for those traits where we are too far to the left or right of the distribution, those traits will likely shape our lives. For the most positive traits we have, if we follow the path of least resistance and remain grounded, they should help make our life comfortable and by extension the lives of those around us. In some instances, the reach of the sphere of influence of an individual is much larger than normal, few humans are equipped to deal with this and they risk imploding under the spotlight, some do carry it off, those with high levels of intelligence are no different in this regard. Most highly intelligent people, I would argue, retreat into self-imposed exile and comfortable obscurity.

Jacobsen: Who seem like the greatest geniuses in history to you?

Hilton: They will likely have had little input into history, but to their own folk and/or communities they will have helped herald in good times. Forced to choose a brilliant mind from the past I would have to say William James Sidis stands out for me, if even a small portion of what is written about him is true, then he would have been a fascinating person to meet.

Jacobsen: What differentiates a genius from a profoundly intelligent person?

Hilton: For me there is no difference, their impact upon mainstream consciousness seems to define how they are remembered, of course the majority of people in any field will be footnotes to history. Looking at IQ societies, you could make arguments that up to 1% of the population are geniuses, but that does not mean they are solely responsible for the betterment of humankind, nor that not being in the top 1% is a restriction to greatness. A combination of good levels of intelligence, a conducive environment and luck seem to be what is required to become a “genius”. In the end you could argue genius means whatever people want it to mean, it is used with a degree of elasticity that renders the word meaningless in most contexts.

Jacobsen: Is profound intelligence necessary for genius?

Hilton: They are two sides of the same coin when referring to genius level intelligence. It seems however the modern usage of the word is more flexible and is applied to anyone with any exceptionally developed skills. Take the great footballers, in that context it is not genius level IQ that is being commented on, though that is not to say they may not possess said high IQ, rather exceptional levels of skill are being acknowledged. Messi or Ronaldo offer a useful analogy to genius level thinking, they have the capacity to play at a level well beyond their peers, with the results easy to see, with genius level intelligence it is harder to see, but the same difference in capacity is there, though it is rarely met by the cheering of thousands of fans.

Jacobsen: What have been some work experiences and jobs held by you?

Hilton: I am a teacher and school leader and have been for some 20 years now, no other job, of the few I tried before teaching, brought a similar level of enjoyment or satisfaction. Teachers are exceptional human beings and provide the clearest evidence that not all superheroes wear capes.

Jacobsen: Why pursue this particular job path?

Hilton: The path of least resistance led me here, this path is not the lazy concept it sounds like from the outside, life steers you and guides you toward your talents, you must pay attention and follow the subtle advice the universe prompts you with.

Jacobsen: What are some of the more important aspects of the idea of the gifted and geniuses? Those myths that pervade the cultures of the world. What are those myths? What truths dispel them?

Hilton:  That a genius is some kind of celebrity and must make a huge difference to humanity. That gifted people will find school/life easy and always excel. That extremely high intelligence is desirable, when it in fact comes with many painful downsides, I would argue there is a sweet spot for intelligence where success in life, by most measures is assured, Doctors, Engineers and top professionals are often in this range, with IQs beyond that things become hit and miss, the ‘gifts’ may still lead to success, but there are lots of folk in that highest region who retreat into obscurity, take work well below their capacity, and have to deal with the side effects of understanding things easily.

If you picture life like an unseen road ahead, a person like a car, the mind like an engine, having a profoundly high IQ is like introducing high-octane fuel, when things run well life is good and progress easy, but the higher speeds attainable can make the car harder to control when you hit unexpected bumps in the road, crashes are more likely to be serious and the engine can be blown by the high-octane fuel at any moment. High intelligence without emotional stability and a supportive environment, preferably with some like-minded peers, for many would be a living curse.

Jacobsen: Any thoughts on the God concept or gods idea and philosophy, theology, and religion?

Hilton: No, these offer me no interest whatsoever.

Jacobsen: How much does science play into the worldview for you?

Hilton: Science is the route to understanding, but we have discovered things place restrictions on what we can know, when I first learned of Gödel’s Incompleteness Theorem, it shook the foundations of Mathematics for me, that I could spend my life trying to prove something that is in fact true a Mathematical fact, but one that is impossible to prove to be true within the Mathematics we use, this heavy blow was quickly followed by the crunching uppercut of Tarski’s undefinability problem, in particular where applied to semantics, there are other examples such as that of Church’s demonstration that Hilbert’s Entscheidungsproblem cannot be solved, or Turing’s demonstration that there is no algorithm that can solve the halting problem. These bolts across what was a fervent belief in Science in my youth have made me conclude that not all answers can be extracted by Science and some must be divined by human thought.

Science sees ever deeper and I am a great believer in this, yet I do not believe it is the ultimate answer to everything, that said most things will eventually fall to Science’s blade. I see little progress in it explaining me to me, that is a task left for me to decipher, in this case I mean my individual human consciousness, in the end Science may help us understand everything except our individual self, and by extension the individual self of others, though we may believe we know how all others (as a group) will behave on the average from our studies of Psychology, but that is converting raw data into grouped data, thus the individual is lost. I see progress toward medicines tailored to individual DNA, and the use of big data to garner meta-level insights, if humanity is waking up to the idea of understanding the individual and by extension all individuals in their own right, then perhaps a new golden age of Science is just around the corner, that would be a first step toward helping the individuals understand themselves, thus lessening the need to take anything on faith, which to me is always folly.

Jacobsen: What have been some of the tests taken and scores earned (with standard deviations) for you?

Hilton: In the last few years, the following 3 stand out.

Spectra IQ 174 sd 15

MultDiv IQ 172 sd 15

Narcissus’ Last Stand IQ 171 sd 15

These were the scores awarded at the time of marking, these can be adjusted up or down over time if the test has not yet had a final norming.

However, my natural inclination to share highest scores perhaps demonstrates the unreliability of testing at the high range, my most common score is 164 (though interestingly my average varies by test setter to some degree).

Jacobsen: What is the range of the scores for you? The scores earned on alternative intelligence tests tend to produce a wide smattering of data points rather than clusters, typically?

Hilton: I have taken many tests over the last 20 years. Thinking in terms of sd 15, these have been between 155 and 175, the most common score is 164 on tests that go to that level and beyond to levels I am unable to access. My favourite test was Paul Cooijman’s Narcissus’ Last Stand for which my score of 40 is currently the highest. I have enjoyed many of the tests by James Dorsey, my favourite test of his was the Spectra test, which returned an IQ 174 at the time, and is to date the only perfect score I have ever achieved, it is unlikely to happen again, this score completed my full set of Opals at the Opal Quest Group. I took the test for Mensa UK in 2002 and joined Mensa International once I moved overseas. Unsurprisingly I most enjoyed the tests I scored highly on, but that was true before I knew the results, as I made a connection with these tests, luck must have played a part as they played to my own personal strengths in IQ testing. This is why it is useful to take many tests, to learn where your strengths and weaknesses lie, you are more likely to get a true general intelligence score if you view your average across a variety of tests, with varying question styles and different authors.

Jacobsen: What ethical philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Hilton: What are ethics but the observations of what is right by the majority? They are not absolute truths; you only have to look to History for evidence. In a developed culture ethics seem to be viewed as the truth, the right and true opinion of the majority, with extremes of behaviour diverging from these viewed as unethical. Ethics therefore are an inevitable consequence of society, though societies develop and as such so do ethics. For me a philosophy where the boundaries of ethics are tested with reasoned debate would seem the ideal, where skilled speakers advocate for pushing the boundaries of ethics, others supporting the norm. We are a long way from this as views outside the norm are vilified immediately, for me this is actually a sign western culture is in decline, where intelligent debate is replaced with cancel culture. This does not justify the breaking of ethical norms, only allows platform for debate. After all, have all shifts in ethical belief lead to negative outcomes for humans? I doubt it, yet challenging ethical beliefs comes with huge risks, why must this be so?

Jacobsen: What social philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Hilton: Again, what is society, is it the same the world over? Surely no, so this again has no answer and leads differing groups into conflict. If everyone worked for the betterment of their sphere of influence, whilst taking reasonable steps to avoid disadvantaging those beyond, instead of offering a set of values as a social philosophy, this eventually, would allow individuals to take different value positions within different groups. This is of course is a lofty goal, but the idea of degrees of separation means that your sphere of influence is much smaller than your meta-sphere of influence. It could be argued that the greatest advantages humans have are intelligence and competitiveness, it could conversely be argued these traits are the most likely to lead to our ultimate downfall. If humans can set aside the need to compete, I suspect our long-term chances would increase dramatically.

Jacobsen: What economic philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Hilton: I would give a similar response as the above, a philosophy that maximises inclusion.

Jacobsen: What political philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Hilton: I would give a similar response as the above, a philosophy that maximises inclusion.

Jacobsen: What worldvew-encompassing philosophical system makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Hilton: My own, though it is not so grand as to be a worldview-encompassing philosophical system. What I believe is likely covered by other philosophies, but is assimilated from life experience, indeed I have not read much philosophy, I find I am unable to draw satisfactory conclusions to non-empirical matters by following the thinking of others, so I have to think about it myself. That is not to say I am not taken with ideas when I hear them, I was drawn to stoicism when I first read about it, but while it felt homely for a while, it did not capture me, it was a comfortable cloak at that time in my life. I feel the same about much philosophy, if one is a devout and permanent adherent to one way of thinking, I fear one may be missing the point of life, to grow, develop, change, morph, all philosophies I have heard seem like clay to me, they can be made to fit with my worldview, but they are no longer the same shape, no-one has ever written anything philosophical that I can fully agree with, I hope that is true for everyone, as that would imply philosophy and metaphysics are absolute truths which they are not, for if they were they would be Science, they are evolutions of the views and opinions of either a majority, or more commonly, a significant, in some way, minority.

Jacobsen: What provides meaning in life for you?

Hilton: Looking to the future, my 5 sons and more children if we are blessed, their journey through time and that of those who will follow provides deep meaning for me. To the present my wife, I owe her more than she will ever appreciate and together we have made a good life. Looking to the past, all of those friends, family and loved ones who enriched my life and tolerated my eccentricates with good grace, one in particular who was taken from us much too early through ill-health, much to the detriment of us all. Life has meaning for me because these people will exist, currently exist, or existed in the past.

Jacobsen: To set the stage for the further conversation, what comprises intelligence in the abstract?

Hilton: I think this is literally the human capacity to create ideas, ponder questions and improve systems. As a species we seem to excel at this kind of thinking and our capacity to make connections, see patterns and associate things have led us on an incredible journey.

Jacobsen: What are the mainstream and fringe theories of human intelligence on offer over time?

Hilton: Human intelligence is not evolving quickly enough for us to adapt to the technological world we are creating. We need to look at psychometric, cognitive, cognitive-contextual, and biological theories to better understand intelligence in terms of the species and more interestingly from my perspective the individual, big data should be looking to this, rather than recommending I buy a particular brand of trainers as I happen to be near a store that sells them, having predicted I may like them from my previous purchasing history.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Member, Glia Society.

[2] Individual Publication Date: March 1, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/hilton-1; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Dong Geon Lee on The Right Life, Religion, Science, and Agnosticism Bordering on Atheism: Member, CIVIQ Society (2)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/03/01

Abstract

This is an interview with a youth member of the high-IQ community in South Korea, Dong Geon Lee, who is a Member of CIVIQ Society. He discusses: the right life; the right life being lived as the right life; other people aware of living the right life; religion; rejecting the religion of youth; an atheist; atheism; hostile and jealous; respect; the reaction of parents and the school system; mathematics, physics, and physical theories; Johann Carl Friedrich Gauß; the right moral behaviour; a morally right behaviour; the qualities or characteristics of morally right speech; not harming others in one’s speech; someone born in a house without religion; religion as illogical; parts of religion are good; the believers of the religion; general agnosticism bordering on atheism; the explanation of reality; the forms of “minor bullying”; this deification a form of protection; a relationship between the geometric laws about shapes as ellipses and the expansion of the universe as dark energy; and any limitations to Carl Friedrich Gauß as a mathematician.

Keywords: agnosticism, atheism, Carl Friedrich Gauß, CIVIQ Society, Dong Geon Lee, ethics, morality, physical theories.

Conversation with Dong Geon Lee on The Right Life, Religion, Science, and Agnosticism Bordering on Atheism: Member, CIVIQ Society (2)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Why were you told to live “the right life rather than just being nice”? How has this impacted life view and personal journeys?

Dong Geon Lee[1],[2]*: My mother said that she could be beaten to live a good life, and that she would not be ashamed of herself if she lived properly. And it actually happened.

Jacobsen: What is the right life being lived as the right life?

Lee: It is to behave morally and not to harm.

Jacobsen: How are other people aware of living the right life to you?

Lee: Basically, it will be revealed in my actions, but you will find out other things while talking to me.

Jacobsen: As someone from a religious family, what kind of religion? What form of religion? What were the practices of the religion?

Lee: I was born in a house with no religion. There is only religious freedom. (There must be some mistake.)

Jacobsen: Why did you reject the religion of youth?

Lee: It’s illogical, and the religion itself may be good, but the believers of the religion have not seen anything good.

Jacobsen: Why become an atheist rather than another religion or an agnostic?

Lee: It is an atheism that is close to agnosticism. And if there was God, he would have done nothing but creation.

Jacobsen: What makes atheism most appealing and true to you?

Lee: It is because it does not explain everything with the intention of God, but it holds and explains a logical, big system, and does not wish for faith.

Jacobsen: How were they hostile and jealous of you? What were the behaviours of them to you?

Lee: Perhaps the reason is because of my intellectual ability. Also, they inflicted minor bullying on me.

Jacobsen: What were the manifestations of their respect for you?

Lee: They deified me (did not like it), but they protected me from those who rejected me.

Jacobsen: What was the reaction of parents and the school system to writing at age one and reading books at 4 years old?

Lee: They were surprised and proud of me.

Jacobsen: What kinds of mathematics, physics, and physical theories have you been developing over time?

Lee: It’s hard to say, but in geometry, we’ve discovered many laws about shapes that are different from ellipses.  Physics has also created expressions that describe the expansion of the universe as dark energy.

Jacobsen: Why Johann Carl Friedrich Gauß for than others?

Lee: He did everything he could in math.

Jacobsen: What is the right moral behaviour in this context in addition to not harming?

Lee: First of all, you don’t make unconditional concessions to others. And from the mind to the altruistic mind, it is to practice it. No one should be harmed in the process.

Jacobsen: How does one enact a morally right behaviour, even in speech?

Lee: Words have the power to move people. That moving power is used to bring moral thought to others. In other words, it has an indirect influence.

Jacobsen: What are the qualities or characteristics of morally right speech?

Lee: Expressions that do not hurt others, expressions that make others feel good, but should not be different from the facts, expressions that are not exaggerated, unreduced, expressions that do not contain dual meaning, etc.

Jacobsen: How does one not harm others in one’s speech (another form of behaviour)?

Lee: There is no special technique. It’s to rethink what I have to say in my head and check the expression.

Jacobsen: As someone born in a house without religion, how does this compare to the wider nation in terms of religious identification or not?

Lee: I don’t understand.

Jacobsen: Why is religion illogical? Is this more based on argument or evidence for the premises, e.g., scientific evidence informing argument, or both?

Lee: Science uses the method of exploration to explore. And if there is a problem in the process, make corrections repeatedly. Religion, however, is limited to the worldview created by someone, and if there is a problem, it is hidden or consistent with the will of God.

Jacobsen: What parts of religion are good?

Lee: It teaches people to live in profit.

Jacobsen: Why have “the believers of the religion… not seen anything good”?

Lee: Religious people created the concept of hell (Jesus did not mention hell), used to wage war because of religion, and now in my country, also Covid 19 is widespread because of religion.

Jacobsen: I will relate one similar sentiment to yours, “It is an atheism that is close to agnosticism. And if there was God, he would have done nothing but creation.” The relation is with an exposition by Dr. Heinrich Siemens of the Giga Society and the Mega Society. The part of our conversation went as follows:

Jacobsen: Why live life “without God”? What defines God in this sense of “without” or “a-,” in reference to “-theism” as in “a-theism” for you – in a pragmatic sense of life without God rather than a formal implied ontological stance of the concept “God”?

Siemens: Some people need someone to take their hand and show them how to align their lives with respect to a higher being. I don’t.

Jacobsen: What constituted the trajectory of the “careful consideration”?

Siemens: When I still attended church, I often felt obliged to give witness to my faith, for example at school. However, I noticed more and more how insincere this was, when scientific explanations contradicted those of the believers. I believed one, gave witness to the other, and did not feel good about it. So, I stopped witnessing the other. Let us suppose that our universe, space and time, arose from an initial singularity. Did God exist before because he is eternal? The idea that anything, even God, existed before the origin of time seems contradictory to me. If God came into existence later, when the laws of nature already applied, he must have had a cause, as nothing comes from nothing (Parmenides). But this contradicts the concept of God as taught by Christianity. So, God himself must be the prima causa, an unmoved mover (Aristotle). Okay, if someone is happy with this, he should call the initial singularity God. But this is a wheel that does not move anything.

Jacobsen: What were the ‘final nails’ – proverbial, so-called – to this careful consideration? Why “maybe because of Ockham’s razor”? How big was the beard to begin with for you?

Siemens: The final nail was even literally a beard. The Baptizers have different ideas about what the lower half of a man’s face should look like. The Amish, for example, let the beard grow (because God lets it grow), but they shave the moustache. Well, actually God lets it grow too, but for some obscure reason that is something completely different. I grew up in a congregation where men had to shave. The theological argument was derived from the fact that it is written: “Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.” Little children do not wear beards, quod erat demonstrandum. When I stopped shaving, I got in big trouble with the church leadership. So, I grabbed Ockham’s Razor. However, instead of shaving my beard, I shaved my faith.

Does this more precisely reflect the general agnosticism bordering on atheism for you?

Lee: Aye!

Jacobsen: Why is the “logical, big system” without the “wish for faith” important in the explanation of reality to you?

Lee: When some begin to believe too much in their wish to believe it, like the framing effect, causes many to believe it, and the reality is distorted and becomes like the novel 1984.

Jacobsen: What were the forms of “minor bullying” inflicted on you?

Lee: I told myself important facts or spread bad rumors about me to other children.

Jacobsen: How was this deification a form of protection against those who rejected you?

Lee: They thought I was the smartest person in the world. So when other people are attacking me, I think it’s an insult to the children who deify me. And they attack them.

Jacobsen: Is there a relationship between the geometric laws about shapes as ellipses and the expansion of the universe as dark energy?

Lee: There is no relation between the two. I just studied each topic separately because it was fun.

Jacobsen: Were there any limitations to Carl Friedrich Gauß as a mathematician?

Lee: There are no limitations other than failing to solve Fermat’s last theorem.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Member, CIVIQ Society.

[2] Individual Publication Date: March 1, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/lee-2; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Anthony Sepulveda (Brown) on Depression, Love, Recovery, and Lessons: Member, World Genius Directory (9)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/03/01

Abstract

Anthony Sepulveda (Brown) is a Member of the World Genius Directory. He discusses: the fallout; the process of recovery; religion for support; professional therapy for support; personal, independent methodologies for helping; the religious community; professional therapy; forms of religious comfort; depression; the diagnosis; people’s sympathy; the mental health; and a higher sensitivity to the events in life.

Keywords: Anthony Sepulveda, depression, love, recovery.

Conversation with Anthony Sepulveda (Brown) on Depression, Love, Recovery, and Lessons: Member, World Genius Directory (9)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Since the affair with Tango, what was the fallout?

Anthony Sepulveda (Brown)[1],[2]*:  I became emotionally unstable and unable to focus on anything else. As a result I was suspended and, nearly, fired from my present job. I also spent most of my money on alcohol in a futile attempt to forget about my problem for a few hours.

Jacobsen: How have you developed a sense of healthy self once more?

Sepulveda (Brown): Yes. With a great deal of effort, I managed to get myself back into a healthy state of mind.

Jacobsen: What is the process of recovery?

Sepulveda (Brown): For me, I cannot turn to religion or professional therapy. No one really listened when I did so in the past, often responding with some general cliches that are only effective for those incapable of independent thought. Instead, I dedicated my time towards trying to solve (or at least resolve) the problem. For weeks I couldn’t focus on anything other than her decision to throw me away. I needed it to make sense. And I knew that no matter how painful the truth was, it was the only move I could make. Otherwise I couldn’t move on. And despite how irrational it seemed and how painful it was to think about, I knew it was the quickest way to get through it. So I spent every day recalling every detail of every encounter and conversation we’d had since she’d got back into contact with me, certain that there were enough details there for me to understand why everything went so wrong. Eventually, I found a few incontrovertible truths that clarified everything enough for me to accept.

Jacobsen: Why didn’t you turn to religion for support with this?

Sepulveda (Brown): As I mentioned before in part 1, I consider religion to be a comforting delusion for those unwilling to actually work through their problems and I’ll never turn to it for any amount of solace. Instead, I’ll take the harder route of accepting the truth as it is, no matter how I feel about it.

Jacobsen: Why no professional therapy for support with this?

Sepulveda (Brown): I underwent several years of therapy after my parents’ divorce at the behest of my mother and, personally, found it to be a waste of time and money. While a therapist can be quite useful for many people, I believe that it’s ultimately up to the individual to be willing and able to solve their own problems.

Jacobsen: What were some of the personal, independent methodologies for helping with this situation?

Sepulveda (Brown): There is one universal truth I keep in mind when I work on a problem – this has to make sense. No matter how complicated or confusing a subject can be or how we feel about the answer, every situation has a perfectly logical consistency. So, as I mentioned above, I focused on finding the details I needed to understand my situation. And I found them.

For example, I’d profess my love to her as often as I could. But said that she was unwilling to reciprocate such things verbally while she was married. I accepted that condition quickly and didn’t think much of it until I needed to. And when I recalled those occasions, I focused on her facial expressions. She’d smile, but it was a tight, reserved one and she’d look downwards. Now this matches her generally introverted personality. But it indicates that she’s uncomfortable about something she enjoys. She felt guilty. Not just because she was having an affair, but also, likely, because she didn’t feel as strongly for me as I did for her.

Luckily for me, human nature is fairly universal. So it wasn’t hard to work out why she made her choice.

There are only three reasons why people avoid each other – fear, annoyance and disgust. Given how close we were, it was obviously the former that was pulling her away. She was scared that there wasn’t any way to avoid some unacceptable consequence with me in the equation. With this in mind, I reviewed our last few conversations and concluded that she did, in fact, still have strong feelings for me, that she didn’t think she would be able to suppress them to the point where we could maintain a casual friendship and that if she acted upon her feelings she could lose everything else she cared for.

It should be known that even this little step of progress took me weeks to reach. During which point I was also trying to determine how much I wanted to keep living. Without love in it, everything seemed pointless. And my history of personal relationships has been absolutely terrible. So, if I couldn’t make it work with Tango, the one person who knew me best, then for what reason could I expect to find anyone who’d care about me? There were many occasions where I’d reflect on everything I’ve accomplished (from being a published artist in several different media, to my high IQ scores, to co-hosting a presentation alongside the head of the Pacific Neuropsychiatric Institute without even having a college degree) and thinking that no matter what I did or how hard I worked or how I felt, no one was ever going to care. Because they don’t have to. There’s no incentive for them.

But then, unexpectedly, I got enough of a distraction from my problems to rest my mind. It was then that I was able to objectively consider what would happen if I gave up on my life. I can’t know for certain, but, as I’ve mentioned before, the most probable outcome seems to be reincarnation. And I have no way of determining what the end result of that process would be, so is my life really so bad that it’d be worth rolling the dice?

No, it wouldn’t be.

While my life isn’t always fun or easy, I can honestly say that I like who I am as a person. More importantly, I respect myself. And not everyone can say that. And it’s not worth the risk of being reincarnated as one of those people.

I’ve proven time and time again that I’m a decent, reliable, dynamic person. And I’ve accomplished more than the average thousand people put together with casual effort.

Since then I’ve decided that since I’m going to keep living, I’m going to live the best life I can. I’ve been making plans for my future. And I’m very excited to see it through.

Jacobsen: When others enter such a situation, for example, with religion, the religious community may condemn these states of affair(s). How is this not helpful?

Sepulveda (Brown): Religious people are often too biased and closed-minded to actually consider the context of the situation enough to offer a fair judgement.

For context, Tango found herself in a marriage that was both emotionally and physically unsatisfying. She’d call me crying at least once a week because her husband would yell at her for irrational reasons (often in front of their infant child) and left her so hurt and stressed that most will never really understand why she put so much effort into maintaining their marriage. Yet surely, anyone could why she’d pursue things to enjoy outside it.

Jacobsen: Others may enter professional therapy. However, the therapist may be outdated in training or given Christian therapy certifications. How are these not helpful?

Sepulveda (Brown): In every way. By habitually relying on outdated or illogical methodologies, you limit your ability to actually solve or resolve any existing problem. In reality, you often have to be willing to compromise and work with the problem on it’s own terms to find a solution.

Jacobsen: What forms of religious comfort or professional therapy may help people?

Sepulveda (Brown): It’s seems to me that religious people simply let go of their problems by accepting them as part of God’s plan. While I must admit that this can help people in many situations, I feel that such beliefs are too irrational and lazy to be taken seriously.

Jacobsen: Did you suffer depression after the affair?

Sepulveda (Brown): More so than ever before. She was the most important person in my life. And I became so focused on losing her that I could barely feel physical sensations. I accidentally shut my finger in a door during that period. And all I did was stare at it, unsurprised that I wasn’t capable of feeling the pain.

Jacobsen: Was the diagnosis formal or informal?

Sepulveda (Brown): Informal, but very obvious.

Jacobsen: Were people sympathetic?

Sepulveda (Brown): A few were. But not enough to do anything about it. Which I’ll argue is the key difference between caring and simply saying you do.

Others stopped associating with me altogether.

But there are several people I’d like to thank –

Derek, for being the only person at work to ask me how I was doing.

Heidi, for giving me your number and time.

Jodi, for listening when others only heard.

Elaine, you’re a saint for putting up with me.

Julia, for spending time with me when you didn’t have to.

My mother, for always being there for me.

Jess, I’d be in prison now if it weren’t for you.

Harry, for keeping me going, constantly engaging with me and giving me a reason to smile again.

And Tango, for giving me some of my most treasured memories. I’ll never forget you.

Jacobsen: What seems like the source of the disregard of the mental health of men, by women and men, in our societies?

Sepulveda (Brown): It’s now my belief that people are inherently selfish. So unless alleviating the suffering of another person can also give you some personal satisfaction or you benefit from associating with someone emotionally or physically, there’s no real incentive for you to extend any effort towards that end. Men often feel the most neglected due to their natural position in the gender dynamic; where people tend to feel safer around women because they are often physically stronger and/or are so much more attracted to them that they feel comfortable enough to express themselves honestly. As a result, men are often neglected, even amongst each other. Which is why they comprise about 90% of successful suicide attempts. Few people have the confidence or decency to really listen to what they have to say. All to often, we only receive consideration based on what we can provide (Financially, socially, personally, etc.) because that’s the role we’re ‘supposed’ to fill.

Jacobsen: Highly intelligent people can be emotionally sensitive too – without proper calibration. Something like a hot house tomato. What is an important lesson for those emotionally in tune with themselves, and others, and having a higher sensitivity to the events in life?

Sepulveda (Brown): I’d advise anyone willing to actually focus on a problem to keep in mind that no matter how illogical or ridiculous it seems, it makes perfect sense. All you’re missing are a few pertinent details and some context. Once you have those, everything becomes much easier to accept and/or work towards resolving.

And no matter what the answer is or how you feel about it, life goes on. You should too, when you’re ready.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Member, World Genius Directory.

[2] Individual Publication Date: March 1, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/sepulveda-9; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Dr. Ricardo Rosselló Nevares on Family History, Catholic Schooling, Being Alone, Mathematics, Bioengineering, and Gifted Identification: Former Governor, Puerto Rico (1)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/02/22

Abstract

Ricardo Rosselló Nevares holds a PhD in Bioengineering and Biotechnology. He graduated from Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) with a Bachelor’s degree in Chemistry and Biomedical Engineering with a concentration in Developmental Economics. Rosselló continued his academic studies at the University of Michigan, where he completed a master’s degree and a PhD in Bioengineering and Biotechnology. After finalizing his doctoral studies, he completed post-doctoral studies in neuroscience at Duke University, in North Carolina, where he also served as an investigator. Dr. Rossello was a tenure track assistant professor for the University of Puerto Rico Medical Sciences Campus and Metropolitan University, teaching courses in medicine, immunology, and biochemistry. Dr. Rossello’s scientific background and training also makes him an expert in important developing areas such as genetic manipulation and engineering, stem cells, viral manipulation, cancer, tissue engineering and smart materials. He discusses: the family history; Catholic schools running through kindergarten through high school; earliest stages of being alone as a child; bioengineering as a path in education; and formal tests.

Keywords: bioengineering, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Puerto Rico, Ricardo Rosselló Nevares, University of Michigan.

Conversation with Dr. Ricardo Rosselló Nevares on Family History, Catholic Schooling, Being Alone, Mathematics, Bioengineering, and Gifted Identification: Former Governor, Puerto Rico (1)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: So, superhero movies are very popular now. So, I want to ask, “What is your origin story?”

Dr. Ricardo Rosselló[1],[2]*: [Laughing].

Jacobsen: Some of the family history, as with any historical process, how this led to your coming into being.

Rosselló: When I was a little kid, I had parents that were loving, caring. I was the youngest of three children. I was not necessarily planned for. I came a little bit after the others. Even though I was the smallest of three, I had two worlds.

I was treated as a young child, but was a lonely child, the anomaly child. After that, I had some moments or certain moments creating the person who I am right now. I would say one of them was a pretty serious surgery when I was young. I had to be taken off school for a while.

I had two very complicated kidney surgeries when I was about 8 or 9. So, I mentioned that before because when I was in school in kindergarten, first grade, second grade. I had a hard time fitting in. One time, I went to Catholic school. When they were teaching us to write our name, I would write my name from the center on outwards.

I would take two pencils and start the first letter of my last name with my right and the last letter of my first name with my left. I would then expand outward. Instead of seeing that as sort of a novelty or, at least, a neat parlour trick, they thought there was something wrong with me.

I had to partake in writing lessons, writing calligraphy. It was pretty rudimentary because I was ambidextrous. They, essentially, had to tie a pencil to one of my hands, so I would only use my right hand. That was one of the moments.

I would say like that. I can share other stories. There were unique challenging moments where I had this mix of feeling I had to overcome big obstacles and then enjoying afterwards. It was not until a little bit later that they figured out; I was not possessed.

Jacobsen: Ha!

Rosselló: Or had severe learning disabilities, but that I had a higher IQ, that started changing things. Another story parallel to that, because of this apprehension in the get-go, I didn’t really get into math. I thought I was very bad at mathematics.

Kids that go to these sorts of events start preparing and training from the very early get-go. For my case, I can clearly state that I didn’t get into mathematics or had any interest up until the first two months of 9th grade, where I had a serendipitous event.

One teacher can change the life of a person. I had this one teacher. For some reason, I fell into the advanced mathematic class. Even though, I was horrible. This guy was notorious for calling out people. He was a guy who trains mathletes.

When I came in, he didn’t feel like I belonged there. So, he picked on me. My first reaction was to sit in the back and not say anything, to blend in and move by; one day, he put this math problem on the board for people to solve. He picked on me.

I was afraid. I went up there. I solved it. It was not a technical mathematical problem. It was IMO, the International Mathematical Olympiad, type of problem and took a hold of it. He sat me down and said, “We have this math club. I would like you to come by.”

To me, it was completely surreal. I had no business. I really had big lagoons on basic mathematical operations, and so forth. But the long story short. Through high school, I was able to thrive on that.

One of the first people from Puerto Rico to ever get to the International Mathematical Olympiad. It was really that serendipitous moment in time, where I was really just flowing by, playing sports, and doing that sort of thing, not focusing on my intellectual development.

Thanks to that sort of intervention, it geared me into a more academic route towards the future. I think those are a few of the events. So, it is serendipity combined with bad luck that just turned out in a positive way.

Jacobsen: Were these Catholic schools running through kindergarten through high school?

Rosselló: Yes, back home in Puerto Rico, the education system is really unequal. Over here in the States, right now, for example, I have my kids in public school. These public schools are just as good as private schools.

There are certain tangential things that you can add on the private side, but in terms of looking at how the kids succeed, enter college, and have opportunities; it is pretty much evened out. In Puerto Rico, it is completely the opposite.

If you went to a private school, the chances of going to college were 95%. If you went to a public school, obviously, as kids drop out and so forth, taking the basis as kids that enter the public school and kids that leave, then about 2% to 3% of them get to college.

So, it was a very different mindset. My parents, my dad is a physician turned politician afterwards. My mom, she was social services and psychologist. They put a big value on education and having the opportunities to move forward.

Jacobsen: You were mentioning various earliest stages of being alone as a child. Was this common even as you went into adolescence?

Rosselló: It is very common. I think I had those two compartmentalized – personalities if you will. It sounds awful. This very introspective persona that I have. Even though, I was the youngest. Again, my older brothers were adolescents when I was born.

I played with myself. I did all those things. When I had to go to the hospital for a year, it was a lot of internal mental games and thought experiments that I had to go through. I tried many sports. The one I really enjoyed was tennis. The one I thrived at was tennis.

It was largely because it was very individualistic. I would say that embedded in my DNA is that need. Even to this day, I can do tasks. I can do certain things with people around me, and learn to enjoy it.

But if I am going to do anything that I think is meaningful or creative, then I need to – literally – be closed up in a room to think about these things. The other part involved is the more public persona. I don’t know if I have given it a lot of thought.

I don’t know if it because of the lack thereof that I had in the onset or not, but I do enjoy being with people, working with people. It is trying to rationalize this dichotomy. I think it was (former) President Bill Clinton who said, ‘If you’re an extrovert, then when you’re around people; you get more energy. When you’re an introvert, you expend the energy.’

While I enjoyed it, every time that I had these big activities and so forth. It would take a physical toll on me. I think there is this space – I don’t want to say, “Loneliness,” but a very introspective space that I still need to function. Otherwise, I feel things around me start crumbling.

Jacobsen: Why did you pick bioengineering as a path in education?

Rosselló: These are other stories in the making.

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Rosselló: When I was a little kid, when everybody wanted to be a police officer and a fireman, and so forth, I wanted to be a bioengineer. The reason: Since I was a kid, there were second-generation G.I. Joe toys called Cobra-La.

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Rosselló: They were bioengineered supervillains. Obviously, the superheroes came along with them. I was fascinated by being able to engineer one’s biology. Not simply on the engineering end of cars and so on, but one’s biology.

When I was a very young kid, my dad gave me a few books to read and pick my imagination, Brave New World, which would tap into things that were obvious. But when I was growing up, we were just tapping into it.

That kind of faded into the background. I don’t know. I lost my way there. I was bouncing from thing to thing. All of the sudden, when I went to college, I chose at random, by the way. [Laughing] When I was deciding on what colleges to apply, when the day came to decide, I didn’t really know.

In my internal setting, it was between Princeton, MIT, and Wharton. I thought that I wanted to study business at one point, that’s why Wharton was there. I just left it up to chance. Luckily, for me, I picked MIT.

I really enjoyed my experience there. When I got there, I had no idea what I wanted to do. The MIT platform allows you to navigate freely for about a year-and-a-half before you know what you want to do.

I started looking at engineering. Within engineering, chemical engineering, once you start getting more specialized, I reconnected with the idea of biology and looking at biological systems to essentially enhance our humanity.

It would be medicine or tackling diseases. The way I see it. I used the engineering concepts to try to grasp what was occurring within biology. So, that’s the first Newtonian step. Once you’re there, you realize there’s a lot more complexity. I think it is a beautiful thing about biology and bioengineering.

Essentially, that’s how I had a primitive urge when I was 4-years-old. That dissipated and, somehow, I found my way, again, into it.

Jacobsen: When you’re going through university education, high school education, were there any formal tests to identify, “Oh, he’s a gifted kid”?

Rosselló: Yes, I took the Stanford-Binet. At that point, for some reason, the mentality is very different. I’m sure you’ve encountered this. They would tell the parents. Don’t let the kid know, don’t make him feel different, my parents always treated me as a smart kid.

So, there was no real change. Obviously, when I took that exam, they saw that there was more potential. The immediate aftermath of that was that they expected more of me [Laughing].

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Rosselló: I was cruising along getting the bare minimums. They were very happy when things jelled with the mathematics part of it because it was something that was of interest. I had a very hard time finding anything to read that was interesting to me.

My dad in 4th or 5th grade,  when I couldn’t concentrate or find anything interesting, would give me these little booklets. I remember one was A Brief History of Time. That was by Stephen Hawking and really grabbed my attention.

He started getting me books in cosmology and astrophysics because it was really the only thing I kind of veered towards or had any interest in reading. There was that. Then there was at the University of Michigan, when I was doing my Ph.D. There was another test.

It was the Cattell test. They were doing these trilingual brain studies. They wanted to see what areas of the brain would light up. You had to have a certain minimum IQ score for that. I took that one as well.

Those were the first two indications. One was at some point in the intermediate school and then the other one was more in graduate school.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Former Governor, Puerto Rico.

[2] Individual Publication Date: February 22, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/rossello-1; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Clelia Albano on Italy, Catholicism, God, Poetry, Dawkins, Dante Alighieri, and Genius: Member, Capabilis (1)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/02/15

Abstract

Clelia Albano is from Italy. She’s a teacher of Italian and Latin, painter and poet writing in Italian and English. She has two collections of poetry, In Assenza di Naufragi, that was a finalist for the National Literary Contest “Il Mio Esordio 2018,” selected by the International Festival of Poetry of Genova, and “Come Tutte Le Cose di Questo Mondo”, a prosimetrum. She’s been published also in English on the american anthology “Winter” and by the literary magazine “The Night Heron Barks”. She loves reading, learning languages and editing for Wikipedia, which she has done since 2012. She is a Member of Capabilis and the United Sigma Intelligence Association. She discusses: growing up; a sense of an extended self; the family background; the experience with peers and schoolmates; some professional certifications; the purpose of intelligence tests; high intelligence discovered; the extreme reactions to and treatment of geniuses; the greatest geniuses in history; a genius from a profoundly intelligent person; profound intelligence necessary for genius; work experiences and jobs; particular job path; the gifted and geniuses; God; science; the tests taken and scores earned (with standard deviations); the range of the scores; ethical philosophy; social philosophy; economic philosophy; political philosophy; metaphysics; philosophical system; meaning in life; meaning externally derived, internally generated; an afterlife; the mystery and transience of life; and love.

Keywords: Catholicism, Clelia Albano, Dante Alighieri, genius, Italian, Latin, Naples, Richard Dawkins.

Conversation with Clelia Albano on Italy, Catholicism, God, Poetry, Dawkins, Dante Alighieri, and Genius: Member, Capabilis (1)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: When you were growing up, what were some of the prominent family stories being told over time?

Clelia Albano[1],[2]: I love this question. It brings back memories of incredible people very significant in my life. My father was a teacher of Latin and Greek from Naples. He belonged to a remarkable family. Along with fairy tales I was mostly told stories of some ancestors and of notable relatives but also stories related to specific historical context such as WWII.

With regard to ancestors, my father recounted often about a well known poet of the Renaissance, Luigi Tansillo, one of the most prominent petrarchist of southern Italy – according to Treccani – who was the ancestor of his mother. This created a sort of mythical aura around my dad’s legacy. In addition he loved to recount anecdotes of his uncle -brother of his father- Leonida Albano, who was a magistrate who built a case against the fascist general Rodolfo Graziani. He also had two amazing aunts: Laura and Alba, both teachers, both erudite, both single by choice. In sum they were forerunners of the modern emancipated women. Laura was incredibly tall, a beautiful red-haired woman with green eyes and with an enormous number of men who vowed her hand. Alba was the opposite. A gracious little figure, but equally exquisite and fascinating. She taught Italian literature, Latin and Greek. I keep her vocabulary of Latin, a priceless memory. My father told me that given her skills and competencies she was hired as a private preceptor of the little prince of Montenegro at the time he was in Naples.

Jacobsen: Have these stories helped provide a sense of an extended self or a sense of the family legacy?

Albano: Yes, they have. Particularly they shaped my awareness of the importance of learning and of democracy. With regard to the feminine side of my family I also shaped the idea that a woman can self determine herself and that a woman can be what she wants to.

Jacobsen: What was the family background, e.g., geography, culture, language, and religion or lack thereof?

Albano: My family is of Italian language and catholic religion.

On the paternal lineage, cultural background is characterized by a high educational level. Many graduated in various fields – from teaching to medicine, from the military to law. The majority were teachers and head-teachers. My mother comes from a humble family. Her father was an employee at a municipal office. She has many siblings. Living in a very small town in a mountainous area with a limited budget and resources for traveling and attending universities, made not possible for her to earn a degree. Despite the obstacles they are brilliant and smart people though.

Religion is a relevant point in both my parents’ background.

I was raised as a catholic. Gradually I developed skepticism over faith although I can say I was a believer in my childhood and for half of my adolescence but always dubious. My dad was a church goer and he had an intellectual idea of faith; on the one hand as an intimate and private feeling, on the other as a form of rational dimension that gave no room for superstition, fanaticism and theatrical performance. He disliked the grotesque side of certain expressions of faith.

Jacobsen: How was the experience with peers and schoolmates as a child and an adolescent?

Albano: It was a good experience. I have attended public schools, the high school was a classic lyceum, and what I remember is the environment of the entire scholastic iter was heterogeneous. Honestly I got bored when lessons were too repetitive and I would be lying to say that I enjoyed the small tough chair and the constraint of school time. In my opinion once you have assimilated the contents you should be put in the condition of going further. It’s a mistake when teachers flat progresses. Doing like that transforms them into bureaucrats who close minds in evolution in a box. Being an only child I usually tended to socialize. On the other hand, I also tended to be selective because my tastes and attitudes didn’t often match the peers’ ones. I loved to paint, writing poems, create objects with clay and to draw illustrations, and I loved to listen to British and American pop music; as a child I loved Franco Battiato who is a singer, musician and a painter whose texts were revolutionary for the poetic texture and for the multiethnic influences, an odd taste for a kid. Strangely I have never been a child who giggled to children tunes and enjoyed songs for kids. As a student I was one who easily learned but I often think that a non conventional school would have met my inclinations better.

I have had some good teachers though.

Jacobsen: What have been some professional certifications, qualifications, and trainings earned by you?

Albano: Well, after graduating in Literature and Philosophy – my degree is quadriennal that is equivalent to a Master degree – I earned a certification in Italian literature and history, another one in Italian literature and Latin, a certification in History and Philosophy. All these represent different teaching chairs in Italy, which means I’m qualified as a teacher for each of these certifications.

Jacobsen: What is the purpose of intelligence tests to you?

Albano: I took tests by chance. Before taking them I have had only some fun with taking these IQ tests that pop up in the Internet ads. One day I received a friend request from a Mensan, founder of one of those IQ societies and I told myself why not to give it a try? Since then, given the very good result, I entered several IQ societies and later I was friended to another Mensan who got the highest IQ score in the world a couple of years ago, and I took more than one of his tests. There are incredible, fascinating people in those societies, sensible and humble.

To be frank my personal purpose was to satisfy the curiosity to test my capabilities but I don’t feel comfortable being tested because I think there are aspects of our minds that cannot be measured.

Jacobsen: When was high intelligence discovered for you?

Albano: There always have been things that were easy to comprehend and to retain in my mind, since my childhood. When you’re a kid you don’t notice that much the difference. You think everyone is like you. When you grow up you start to acknowledge that your mind works differently from the standard particularly because of the enormous size of the contents and information you realize you retain and with regard to myself also memory. Acquaintances, friends, schoolmates, and gifted people, were impressed by how easily I remembered contents even of a distant past.

More than memory it would be preferable to call it comprehension, because I retain what I’m interested in and what I want to learn. OK I also remember things that are not useful sometimes ( such as an anecdote of a cat named Sugar who fell down from a skyscraper ten years ago and it landed safe), but they surely were related to a certain mood or particular moment or a context that somehow was affecting my interaction with the world around me ( with regard to Sugar it’s because I love cats) not necessarily relevant context or memorable days though. Anyway across the time I realized that everything I remember is useful and precious. I have developed the idea that reality, life and experiences are linguistic codes and every single memory is a set of words that must be there in the vocabulary of our mind even if we will leave them in pages we will never visit again.

Jacobsen: When you think of the ways in which the geniuses of the past have either been mocked, vilified, and condemned if not killed, or praised, flattered, platformed, and revered, what seems like the reason for the extreme reactions to and treatment of geniuses? Many alive today seem camera shy – many, not all.

Albano: I think the reason is people feel uncomfortable in the presence of extra-ordinary, when someone does not meet the standard, the convention, the predictable. People find attractive those who are simple to imitate, they like to find in the other a mirror equipped with the same notions, prejudices, look, or by contrast they like social models that appear on the glossy covers of financial magazines or fashion zines or gossip. But a genius is different. A genius has nothing to do with social and economic business nor with aesthetical trends to launch. Looking back to the tragic end of many beautiful minds of history I think not only they were considered abnormal but given they were intellectuals, scientists, philosophers, artists and so on who reversed the monolithic knowledge and the officiality of held views (such as religious beliefs), they were seen as dangerous, they were considered a threat.

Jacobsen: Who seems like the greatest geniuses in history to you?

Albano: Many to me are great. It’s not a piece of cake to make a choice. You know, was I a scientist I would have answered Einstein or Tesla but I’m a teacher in Humanities and I’m also a painter and a poet and although I am fond of a long list of writers, philosophers, painters, poets, all geniuses, I must admit that Dante Alighieri is more impressive than others because of the variety of narrative situations, of metaphors, of cultural contents and subjects he put inside the Divine Comedy. Moreover he is impressive because of his imagination. They say his contemporaries saw him as a voyant, strongly convinced he went across the three ultramundane reigns actually. This happened due to the realistic details of every experience he narrates. Beside this, he is the greatest because he had the courage to criticize the Church corruption and because he acknowledged that there is an innate predisposition even to feel love, among other things.

Jacobsen: What differentiates a genius from a profoundly intelligent person?

Albano: Generally I think sometimes they coincide. Profound intelligence is the faculty of understanding and interpreting others emotions, and learning. On the other side genius is intuition, exceptional ability to penetrate and dig inside the most intricate, complex problem. It is also creativity, inspiration but it is not for granted a genius is always empathic.

For a better explanation of what I mean I want to quote a passage from “Imaginary Lives” by Marcel Scwob, on the famous artist Paolo Uccello (Paul of the Birds):

“The truth was that Uccello cared nothing for the reality of things, but only for their multiplicity and the infinite lines and angles that form them; so he painted blue fields, red cities, knights in black armour on ebony horses with mouth aflame, and spears bristling skywards in every direction like rays of light… The sculptor Donatello would say to him: ‘Ah, Paolo, you are neglecting substance for shadow!’

Schwob portrays Uccello like an artist who is obsessed with lines and abstractions to such an extent that he loses sight of life and death, of love. So, if genius is not rooted in the emotional side, it lacks the intelligence of feelings. This is the difference.

Jacobsen: Is profound intelligence necessary for genius?

Albano: Yep.

Jacobsen: What have been some work experiences and jobs held by you?

Albano: All related to teaching. There are other experiences that can’t be considered works. I write poems and I published two books. The first collection was chosen by the International Festival of Poetry of Genova and I was a finalist in this national and international literary contest. My other experiences are related to art. I am also a painter and other experiences are related to cultural fields such as being wikipedian since 2012.

Jacobsen: Why pursue this particular job path?

Albano: I have to repeat myself, my faith in education and the influence of my father and relatives.

Jacobsen: What are some of the more important aspects of the idea of the gifted and geniuses? Those myths that pervade the cultures of the world. What are those myths? What truths dispel them?

Albano: In my opinion a myth is that all the gifted people are sensitive, empathic, altruistic (as I briefly said before). To my knowledge some masters of art considered geniuses, weren’t so nice and good privately and if I think of my personal experience I can say I have known some highly intelligent people who are sadic, racist, misogynist.

I even don’t think that necessarily a poet or a great writer are sensitive. I have no clue why this happens. It might be that emotional intelligence is not always developed in intellectually developed people.

Jacobsen: Any thoughts on the God concept or gods idea and philosophy, theology, and religion?

Albano: As I told you before once there was a time I was a believer, although in adulthood I realized this idea of God was instilled into my mindset by default, given my family’s background and beliefs.

Nonetheless I already doubted the existence of God when I was a child because the deepest mystery for me consisted in His invisibility. I was attracted by the idea of supernatural entities and this was for a certain period of my youth what triggered my curiosity even to the likelihood of another life on another dimension or planet.

When I grew up with my knowledge and critical thinking I lost my faith. Despite this I consider religions necessary. I see them as a form of literature and mythical narrative that specially in Italy with regard to Catholicism, during the Middle Age, passing through Renaissance, gave a strong impulse to Arts, and due to its closeness to the best minds of those times did contribute to the birth of spectacular frescoes, chapels, cathedrals, paintings, manuscripts, and why not, also poetry. Dante’s works, I aforementioned, are a perfect paradigm of poetic inspiration drawn from God. With regard to the other question, study of theology and philosophy is to be considered fundamental. Philosophy played a pivotal role in my formation.

Jacobsen: How much does science play into the worldview for you?

Albano: Science is essential, although I must say it cannot explain everything. I’m scared by scientists like Dawkins, for example. To think there is mystery, that there are unexplainable things, gives me the sensation of being a human being. To think we are only neurons, synapses, chemistry and predictable beings transforms us into machines and it sounds creepy.

Jacobsen: What have been some of the tests taken and scores earned (with standard deviations) for you?

Albano: Spatio, visual and verbal. Respectively 138, SD 15, and 152, SD 15.

Jacobsen: What ethical philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Albano: I can mention many philosophers that have influenced my idea of ethics, but since for me what structures life and society is a series of interconnected values and fields of knowledge – I don’t share the relatively recent habit of separating disciplines into sectors, because it produces only fragmentation – I will answer ethical philosophy that is carried by Gadamer’s aesthetics and hermeneutics. The reason is simple. Gadamer acknowledged there are not absolute truths and in Truth and Method (1960) he formulates the aesthetic concept that Art is related to the transmission of meanings across time. He wasn’t persuaded with the idea that a work of art loses its meaning when it is subtracted to the time of its creation, in opposition with what Schleiermacher theorised, for example. The artistic products are vehicles of objective truths that through an hermeneutical approach take new meanings. This addiction of meaning has an impact on the collective culture, education, ideals and ethics. What he calls prejudices (pre-judices) represent not negative preconceptions but our preformed cultural views, our knowledge, and as such they can be transformed by interpretation, since cultural values and aesthetical values have to be interpreted through the time. They can modify ethics because aesthetic he referred to is a set of signifiers that affects our behaviour, in other words Art, poetry and so forth, forward messages that for every span of time must be decodificated, and trans-codificated. I believe in the educational and ethical power of Art and Literature.

Jacobsen: What social philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Albano: About one year ago I read a book I consider one of the most beautiful books I ever read and one of the best books of philosophy of the last centuries: This Life, written by Martin Hägglund, professor of Comparative Literature and Humanities at Yale University. Page after page I nodded in agreement with the concept that this life is the only life we have. This means we have to employ our time to care for others, since there is neither religious consolation nor the promise of an infinite ultra mundane existence. Sociality is essential in Hagglund’s line of reasoning and so are politics and economics according to an original interpretation of Karl Marx. The ideal society should pursue democratic socialism. That said, I want to focus on social and human meanings this book carries with it because it’s, above all, a work on life and the social function of acknowledging our frailty and values, emotions and feelings related to loss and death which capitalism and neoliberalism tend to erase from our culture for replacing them with a dehumanizing frantic rhythm of living. In this work there’s no transcendent aspiration. Hagglünd argues one has to realize themselves here by cooperating with each other.

Jacobsen: What political philosophy makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Albano: It makes sense the theorisation of equality according to Enlightenment on the one hand, democracy conceived as a process strictly linked to contingency and not democracy as an absolute truth the way Hagglund has formulated in his philosophical speculation also through Derrida and Marx (in two different works).

Jacobsen: What metaphysics makes some sense to you, even the most workable sense to you?

Albano: Metaphysics is a fascinating word. It evocated parallel worlds in my youth, the aspiration to go beyond limits, the platonic Hyperuranius, the inexhaustible query of inspiring emotions. Nowadays poetry is my metaphysics.

Jacobsen: What worldview-encompassing philosophical system makes some sense, even the most workable sense to you?

Albano: I think there isn’t only one philosophical system I can apply to my worldview. As a human being I see myself as part of an extended reality, as a person amongst thousands of people. That’s why I consider myself cosmopolitan and my weltanschauung cosmic. Not universal but cosmic since the word cosmic from the time of the ancient Greeks embraced the idea of multiplicity whilst universe is related to “unus” (one) and “monos” sounding exclusive and merely unilateral.

Jacobsen: What provides meaning in life for you?

Albano: Bonds of affection, empathy, progress.

Jacobsen: Is meaning externally derived, internally generated, both, or something else?

Albano: Part of the meaning comes from experience, the way we interpret the world, part is a construction.

Jacobsen: Do you believe in an afterlife? If so, why, and what form? If not, why not?

Albano: Being not a believer I don’t. This doesn’t mean there is not another dimension, a new form of existence. It would be amazing if reincarnation was a possibility. One thing I can do for sure to grant me an afterlife is to become a tree which is possible due to the so called Bios Urns. I read somewhere it is expensive though. Who knows, when I will die it might be they lower prices. Lol

Jacobsen: What do you make of the mystery and transience of life?

Albano: Inspiration.

Jacobsen: What is love to you?

Albano: Many things. First of all something to cultivate and nourish.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] Italian & Latin Teacher; Painter; Poet, Member, Capabilis.; Memvber,

[2] Individual Publication Date: February 15, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/albano-1; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.

Conversation with Luca Fiorani on the Partigiani, Virtues, Love, Meaning, Philosophers and Geniuses of Note, and Consciousness and the Soul: First Member, RealIQ Society (2)

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/02/15

Abstract

Luca Fiorani is the first member of RealIQ Society by Ivan Ivec with an estimated IQ of 181.2 (σ15) combining 9 tests, where he studies and considers himself a philosopher in nuce. He discusses: a family history in the Partigiani; the triplet values; Roman Catholicism; the reason for being a loner; cut off social reality; studying; the “proper credentials for achieving something non-negligible”; a life work; regrets; discovery and commentary by other people at 7-years-old; the main reasons for the “society of exhibitionism”; Plato; Dante Alighieri; Leonardo da Vinci; Gottfried Liebnitz; Werner Heisenberg; Jacques Lacan; Kurt Gödel; some exceptions to the principle of profound intelligence required for genius; work, love, friendship; the correct properties of God; science changing the views of consciousness; personal perspectives on consciousness and the soul; freedom of the will and human nature; test constructors; Kantianism; Rousseauism; economic liberalism; Rawlsian ethics; Spinozan metaphysics; Nietzscheanism; reject solipsism; conscious agents, operators; the numinosum; and love.

Keywords: consciousness, love, Luca Fiorani, meaning, Partigiani, philosophers, soul, virtues.

Conversation with Luca Fiorani on the Partigiani, Virtues, Love, Meaning, Philosophers and Geniuses of Note, and Consciousness and the Soul: First Member, RealIQ Society (2)

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citation style listing after the interview.*

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: As an irregular army force, the Partigiani fighting against both Fascism and Nazism seems most intriguing to me. These stories of “bravery, fortitude, daring,” while ‘giving up is not an option,’ as a maxim, seems to imbue a family narrative with nobility in sentiment. Is this a sensibility found throughout many Italian families with a family history in the Partigiani?

Luca Fiorani[1],[2]*: Yes, I guess. Without Resistance there is no Liberation and without Liberation there’s no Liberty. Freedom is something valuable. Their sacrifice won’t be forgotten. Our current battles – for rights, against ideological systems, etc. – are mainly possible because of their battle, less metaphorical but even more representative. They’re an emblem.

Jacobsen: What are some aspects of personal life in which you have been able to fulfill the maxim and the triplet values of “bravery, fortitude, [and] daring”?

Fiorani: In the context of my psychological growth. I had demons to face and I fought them without quitting. This granted me the chance of living a more than acceptable life, I’d say satisfying – the only flaw/defect remains the lavorative scope: but I’m less than 30, nothing is lost, I still have opportunities, and I intend to take them.

Jacobsen: What does Roman Catholicism mean to a family living in Tuscany and Liguria while ‘embracing Catholicism in a not too rigid way’?

Fiorani: Roman Catholicism is rule, routine, standard for most families in Italy. The promulgated values are important and elevated. You can follow most of them even without being assiduously practicing, in my humble opinion: in fact, this very thing happens repeatedly, with no clamor.

Jacobsen: What was the reason for being a loner “as a child and as an adolescent”?

Fiorani: I don’t possess all the answers, things just happen, several factors I suppose – i.e. my nature/temperament/personality and others’ cognitive and emotive maturity or lack of it, it depends. Not everything is easily classifiable.

Jacobsen: It seems as if a tendency to only pursue friendships if they fell into your lap rather than heading out into the world to find them, consciously. So, why cut off social reality and from “reality often”?

Fiorani: Maybe I suffered more than I like to admit. Escapism is a response to a stimulus.

Jacobsen: What are you studying now?

Fiorani: Philosophy. I’m about to complete the full cycle of studies. I shall obtain my doctor’s degree within July 2021, I’m preparing my graduation thesis. I am a good student, being A+ my average grade at university. I’ve also obtained full marks with honors in high school, appearing in Albo Nazionale delle Eccellenze [National Excellence Honours Roll] as well.

Jacobsen: What comprises the “proper credentials for achieving something non-negligible” in work?

Fiorani: Master’s degree, for instance. Plus, right motivation and befitting forma mentis. I’ll reach a stability, I’m pretty confident about that.

Jacobsen: Do you have a life work, as in a pursuit or passion intended for life?

Fiorani: Certainly.

Jacobsen: Any regrets on the side of competitive aspect with addiction and competition as the mindset?

Fiorani: Yes, I do have regrets. Anancasm is not fine.

Jacobsen: How did this discovery and commentary by other people at 7-years-old change the orientation to education? As peers, based on prior commentary, they seemed a distant non-concern while in rapture with your own thoughts.

Fiorani: The orientation to education… I’ve progressively become aware of my talent in various fields, almost everything which involved theoretical conceptualizing and abstract reasoning – as for my manual dexterity, my skills were almost null then, and are very poor now. Also, my drawing ability is close to zero. It’s a soft sub-kind of dysgraphia – my handwriting, for example, is something horrible.

Back to the point, people considered me a brainiac but rarely in its pejorative meaning, I’ve never been a eager beaver vel similia, and, as for teaching programmes, nothing changed – giftedness is an almost ignored issue in Italy, which implies de facto not taking into account gifted children and possible specific educational programmes. But I wasn’t an underachiever, and I fought boredom in many ways – being also a precocious autodidact.

Jacobsen: What seem like the main reasons for the “society of exhibitionism,” of the creation of Homo vacuus, of ‘the society of spectacle’?

Fiorani: I cannot clarify with abundance of details. I may become encyclopedic, pedantic, verbose. I suggest to read works of Guy Debord, Zygmunt Bauman, Slavoj Žižek, Peter Sloterdijk.

Jacobsen: Looking at the examples, it raises some straightforward questions with Plato, Dante Alighieri, Leonardo da Vinci, Gottfried Leibniz, Werner Heisenberg, Jacques Lacan, and Kurt Gödel. What makes Plato a good example of a genius?

Fiorani: Plato has been the first pedagogue of the Western world. He was a formidable writer – his Dialogues are literary masterpieces –, his mind was vast. He conceived so many thoughts and ideas (cf. the famous quote of Alfred North Whitehead on Western philosophy: “a series of footnotes to Plato”, in Process and Reality). Philosophy was already alive and strong – Heraclitus, Parmenides –, but Plato let it shine and rise and expand, both following and overcoming his master Socrates. The latter is very present till the end, though. Not a coincidence that Leo Strauss spoke about zetetic skepticism describing the Socratic attitude of Plato: doubt and research as keystones.

Jacobsen: What makes Dante Alighieri a good example of a genius?

Fiorani: If one has familiarity with the Divine Comedy, it becomes truistic. His poetry is unmatched. Each single verse – of the 14233 of which his masterpiece consists – is not trivial nor easy. Consider as well how much theology was in his work. Dante was able to express things in a way that has never been equaled, I’d say. Take the following lines as a golden example:

«Fede è sustanza di cose sperate
e argomento de le non parventi,
e questa pare a me sua quiditate»

(Paradise, XXIV, 64-66)

faith is the substance of the things we hope for 

and is the evidence of things not seen;

and this I take to be its quiddity

I consider the beauty and depth so amazing that I shall leave to the reader other remarks.

Jacobsen: What makes Leonardo da Vinci a good example of a genius?

Fiorani: He is the most classic and complete example of Homo universalis. He was impressively versatile, the novelty of his ideas is now well-known. His skills were various and immense and his contributions to mankind remarkable.

Jacobsen: What makes Gottfried Liebnitz a good example of a genius?

Fiorani: Another polymath… The mind of Leibniz is similar to The Library of Babel of Jorge Luis Borges. I’d say then, the total mind. High standing logician [cf. identity of indiscernibles, etc.], mathematician [cf. differential and integral calculus and refinement of binary system as notable examples], elegant and ingenious philosopher [cf. Monadology, etc.], prolific inventor [cf. stepped drum and other mechanical calculators]. Some of his intuitions were confirmed more than two centuries after his time. He wrote essays in six languages. His erudition too was something nearly unbelievable.

Jacobsen: What makes Werner Heisenberg a good example of a genius?

Fiorani: He won the Nobel prize in 1932 “for the creation of quantum mechanics”. He really has been a pioneer and key figure in physics. This (r)evolution hasn’t perhaps the same vastness of the ones by Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein, but we’re not that far.

Jacobsen: What makes Jacques Lacan a good example of a genius?

Fiorani: Lacan just brought psychoanalysis to another level. He has been able to re-read and re-comprehend entirely Sigmund Freud, his mentor. His studies on the language are sublime. He reaches a rate of elaborateness so high that he is often considered obscure or even indecipherable. Difficulty is there, I mean, that’s unquestionable, but his complexity is also epiphany, brainwave and so on. He appears unintelligible, but as well he enlights us about so many phenomena, that I’m inclined to forgive his excess of sophistication.

Jacobsen: What makes Kurt Gödel a good example of a genius?

Fiorani: I believe that he’s the greatest logician ever lived. I’m not excluding Aristoteles and Gottlob Frege, nor Ludwig Wittgenstein, Alfred Tarski, Saul Kripke and Alan Turing, beware! Gödel’s incompleteness theorems represent a revolution tout court. How we view things – our approach to everything we know, for instance.

The famous Pontius Pilate’s question (cf. John 18:38), Τί ἐστιν ἀλήθεια; [Greek]/Quid est veritas? [Latin]/What is truth? becomes even more difficult or challenging and intriguing after Gödel.

Jacobsen: What are some exceptions to the principle of profound intelligence required for genius?

Fiorani: In some artistic fields it may happen that one brings a revolution (sort of), without being profoundly intelligent. So, at least to a certain extent this person is genius, in a way. To some degree, yes. Andy Warhol seems fitting.

Jacobsen: In a direct sense, you have spent a significant amount of time in intellectual and alternative test-taking pursuits. Why the obsessions with a reduction in the practical concerns for the manner of an ordinary life, e.g., work, love, friendship, and the like?

Fiorani: Assuming that I haven’t spent time for things like love and friendship, for example, is incorrect. I devoted time also to important things.

Jacobsen: What seem like the correct properties of God, “bidden or not bidden”?

Fiorani: The correct properties? Bonum-Verum-Unum-Pulchrum? Yes, I guess so…

Jacobsen: How is science changing the views of consciousness, the soul, and human nature, even the nature of nature? How do these differ from the past philosophical arguments? How do these not differ from the past philosophical arguments?

Fiorani: Materialistic arguments are winning – in the field of philosophy of mind, which includes consciousness & soul. But that’s not a law, just a trend. Neurosciences are changing a bit how we view human nature, indeed. As for the nature of the nature, I guess that contemporary physics arrives. Quantum field theory, Unified field theories, Standard Model, Cosmology, Higgs boson: Wikipedia might help the reader here.

The other two questions require a very long diachronic analysis. Let’s just say I don’t reply ’cause I’m not able to.

Jacobsen: What are personal perspectives on consciousness and the soul?

Fiorani: A curious and thorough perspective about consciousness is described in: The Matrix (1999), directed by Lana Wachowski and Lilly Wachowski; and Memento (2000), directed by Cristopher Nolan. My ‘personal’ perspective is similar. About soul, I might quote The Seventh Seal (1957), directed by Ingmar Bergman; and Life of Pi (2012), directed by Ang Lee. Why do I cite movies? I don’t know, it has been genuine.

Jacobsen: Any thoughts on freedom of the will and human nature?

Fiorani: The verdict of Mahābhārata is a thought of mine: “The knot of Destiny cannot be untied; nothing in this world is the result of our acts”. Please cf. also Dark, the famous German TV series, which debuted in 2017. The ambition and complexity of its narrative deserves our praise. My hasty prose does not deserve praise, instead. Speech is silver, silence is golden – never mind.

Jacobsen: Those test constructors: Theodosis Prousalis, Xavier Jouve, Ron Hoeflin, Jonathan Wai, James Dorsey, Iakovos Koukas, Nick Soulios; they are well-known within the high-range testing community.  Whose tests seem the most g-loaded tests, whether numerically, spatially, or verbally, or some admixture of them?

Fiorani: It depends. The (good) verbal ones might be the most g-loaded.

Jacobsen: Why Kantianism as the ethical philosophy?

Fiorani: Because there is less heteronomy but not less universality.

Jacobsen: Why Rousseauism as the social philosophy?

Fiorani: His Discourse on Inequality and The Social Contract are fascinating. You need to understand the impact of civil society on people – and nature of people – in order to overcome social injustices. Otherwise you won’t go anywhere. I don’t concur with everything he said, for example about private property as original source of all inequality, but I like his method – Rousseau has been a pioneer too.

Jacobsen: Why economic liberalism as the operating system for an economy?

Fiorani: Because that system is the one that, in Wirklichkeit, in factual reality, works the most. In concreto. There are better systems in abstracto, i.e. ideally. But history proves that they don’t work with a similar efficiency for a relevant amount of time.

Jacobsen: What parts of Rawlsian ethics most definitively sets forth an ethical vision of a political system?

Fiorani: Advantaging the underprivileged is one of the main ideas of Rawls. That’s the most important point. How he applies this principle is explained updating some instances of Kantian philosophy. He also uses a variant of the social contract theory (a reinterpretation of Jusnaturalism).

Jacobsen: Why does Spinozan metaphysics (philosophy) as demarcated by Hegel help thinking about things outside of the physical?

Fiorani: There’s a third level of knowledge, the first being by perception and the second by reason. The third kind is amor Dei intellectualis – you may call it intuitive. The second kind of knowledge is OK for the physical, but it’s not enough. To comprehend reality in all its aspects, metaphysics is necessary, thus the third level of knowledge. Spinoza describes these things in the most solid philosophical system I know. That’s all.

Jacobsen: Why does Nietzscheanism provide a comprehensive system of thinking for you?

Fiorani: Thus Spoke Zarathustra… Almost everything is there. A Book for All and None. Explanation concluded.

Jacobsen: Why reject solipsism as in the intersubjectivity of meaning?

Fiorani: Human being is φύσει πολιτικὸν ζῷον (by nature, social animal) and our mind is, Bereshit, in principle/in beginning, relational. Solipsism is wrong, sic et simpliciter.

Jacobsen: With meaning externally and internally derived synchronously, what does this state about a universe or an area in the universe without conscious agents, operators?

Fiorani: There is an universe/area if there are conscious agents.

Jacobsen: With the “ineffable sacred mystery” of the numinosum, what does this mean for the process of discovery of science and the human activity of organizing the findings into theoretical constructs, organizing principles?

Fiorani: Nothing. That process – consisting of: discovery, theoretical constructs, organizing them, etc. – continues and works.

Jacobsen: As love is the “most marvelous sentiment that we have,” what is a life without love?

Fiorani: Life without love would be an error.

Appendix I: Footnotes

[1] First Member, RealIQ Society

[2] Individual Publication Date: February 15, 2021: http://www.in-sightjournal.com/fiorani-2; Full Issue Publication Date: May 1, 2021: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.

*High range testing (HRT) should be taken with honest skepticism grounded in the limited empirical development of the field at present, even in spite of honest and sincere efforts. If a higher general intelligence score, then the greater the variability in, and margin of error in, the general intelligence scores because of the greater rarity in the population.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.