Conversation with Tor Arne Jørgensen on High-Range Tests, Writing, Social Media Dieting, and Teaching: 2019 Genius of the Year – Europe, World Genius Directory (9)
Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen
Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal
Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2022/08/01
Abstract
Tor Arne Jørgensen is a member of 50+ high IQ societies, including World Genius Directory, NOUS High IQ Society, 6N High IQ Society just to name a few. Tor Arne was also in 2019, nominated for the World Genius Directory 2019 Genius of the Year – Europe. He is also the designer of the high range test site; toriqtests.com. He discusses: the first one developed; numerical and verbal tests; 11 tests; Zgonglin Li, Nitish Joshi, and Jason Betts; pluses and minuses; Jason Grant; writing and thinking skills in a dialogic format; areas to explore; the world of tests and test construction; written communication; prepare mentally for these interviews; a break from social media as an experiment; needless distractions; the temptation of time wasting; schooling the young; credentialed in the study of some aspects of history.
Keywords: Jason Grant, numerical tests, schooling, social media, the young, Tor Arne Jørgensen, verbal tests.
Conversation with Tor Arne Jørgensen on High-Range Tests, Writing, Social Media Dieting, and Teaching: 2019 Genius of the Year – Europe, World Genius Directory (9)
*Please see the references, footnotes, and citations, after the interview, respectively.*
Scott Douglas Jacobsen: There’s an interesting niche community all over the world. One in which you’re immersed. I have interviewed people in them, heard and read the vast amount of gossip from people about one another (shocking, hilarious, insightful, and scary, depending on the story). I would, hopefully, engage this more in depth in a separate series, but I want to cover some of the aspects of novice test construction. Individuals with various types of problem-solving skills in the variants of the high-I.Q. communities. What test was the first one developed by you?
Tor Arne Jørgensen [1],[2]*: The first high range test I designed was a collaboration with myself and Arne Andre Gangvik back in 2016, and it was decided to be called: Scout, which is a verbal test with 30 tasks of varying difficulty.
Jacobsen: Why focus on numerical and verbal tests?
Jorgensen: Simply explained, that these are the tests that I like best and are best at. When I first started taking these high range tests, I spent far too little time, around 30 minutes to 1 hour on tests that one should have spent 8-10 hours on. I learned a lot along the way about what I was good at and what I was not good at.
I’m not good at figurative tests, they are to be recon as my Achilles heel, then there are the numerical tests that I am somewhat better at, then lastly, verbal testes, whereas the association tests are the most preferred ones. Furthermore, I cannot rush as I am not good at time-limited tests at all, but at deep analysis, that is my strength. This corresponds well with how I am otherwise in terms of physical abilities, where I am a 10-15K runner, and as a cyclist I am to be considered a tempo rider.
Jacobsen: You have 11 tests: Gradus 3 Light, Gradus 3, Quinque, Quinque 2, Quinque 3, Quinque 4, Spot, Scout, Capiuntiq, MVNLT 20, and Lambda XIK. What test has been taken the most? Who has done the best on them if I may ask? Alternatively, what has been the highest score on the one of your tests on the 1st attempt and on the 2nd attempt?
Jorgensen: The tests that have the most attempts is MVNLT20, then my Quinque tests.
- To the question of who has the top score, I cannot reveal it, but all the Quinque tests except Quinque 3 have been totally solved. MVNLT20 has been solved 19/20 as a top score, but all the tasks have been solved correctly. The same goes for Spot, Gradus 3 and Gradus 3 Light. The remaining tests have been partially solved according to the 1st and 2nd attempts; this applies to all my tests. It should be mentioned that only Quinque 4 has been solved completely right in the first attempt.
Jacobsen: You link to Zgonglin Li, Nitish Joshi, and Jason Betts, on the website. Why those individuals?
Jorgensen: Simply justified, by the fact that they are according to what I know great people, with lots of talent for creating high range tests among other great qualities. Fantastic, and to add kind individuals that have a solid reputation for being serious test developers.
Jacobsen: Most people who develop tests independently do not have professional qualifications directly relevant to psychometrics or experimental psychology, or neuropsychology. For example, Dr. Xavier Jouve of the former Cerebrals Society has a doctorate in experimental psychology. He’s into photography now. Dr. Gina Langan of the Mega Foundation/‘Mega Society East’ has a doctorate in neuropsychology. Dr. Evangelos Katsioulis, M.D. is a psychiatrist and a medical doctor. So, well-educated people and intelligent exist in pockets of the community with directly relevant or almost directly relevant qualifications. Yet, back to the main observation, most do not. So, what pluses and minuses can arise in this context of a lack of relevant structured formal education or qualifications?
Jorgensen: Since the high range tests, or advance puzzle tasks, as an uneducated person according to what you are referring to here in your line of question, then these tests are not to be considered as intelligence tests, as they are to be considered to be mere logically based tests and nothing more. It should also be noted that I have received the standardization that is requested on my website and on each test. The fact that with each submission, scores from other high range tests must be brought with the persons test submission regarding the need for norm validation, and then a previous certificate from supervised tests is then provided by request from the test author. These supervised psychometric tests are the very best for providing a valid norm.
The norm is then usually based on 30-50 attempts, whereas many are based on these monitored psychometric tests, this in return provides me the test author with a deviation normed base of around 1-3 points at most, this example applies well to my MVNLT20 test, here the deviation has not exceeded on the last 15 attempts more than 3 points deviation plus minus from the supervised tests.
Positive sides regard to high range tests; they are much cheaper than these standard supervised tests, whereas my own tests are free of charge, the standard supervised tests on the other hand cost at least from 50 to 60 dollars as to what I last saw. As previous stated, the deviation from the standard supervised test and my own MVNLT20 test seems to be within 1-3 points.
The negative side is that you will not get the validness as to a correct supervised normed IQ score.
High range tests does in most case, not provide you with a proper IQ score as they are not correctly based on the correct psychometrics and are further not supervised by an certified professional psychologist, thus making them unreliable for a proper IQ score.
Jacobsen: Thank you for the mention in the interview with Jason Grant, by the way, how was the live interview compared to the more formal back-and-forth correspondence interviews done by you and I?
Jorgensen: I liked it very much, a wonderful format that gave me an extra boost. The only thing that was and still is a bit sad, is the time it took and now takes to publish these interviews. Jason Grant is a nice person, but it’s slow going to publish each interview, still waiting for part 2 of the interview series… That said, I like the format that we currently work as to the written format, this allows me to be a bit more colorful with regards to my particularities, as my orally flamboyance is not quite on par with my written formulations.
Jacobsen: We can cover more of the high-range test materials in another series, as I will be exploring some of these issues with others. You have some plans to transition, apparently rapidly, from the world of tests and test-development into the world of writing and thought. How have some of these interviews together helped to develop some writing and thinking skills in a dialogic format?
Jorgensen: Undoubtedly yes, these interview interactions that we conduct on a steady basis, the exposure of what is to be covered, as well as the nature of the content produce by its excellent qualitative elements, are thus promoted in dialogue-learning qualities that in turn can be viewed as evolving mantras.
Jacobsen: What seem like areas to explore into the future for us?
Jorgensen: To be able to continue very much in the same direction as now, perhaps direct the focus even more so towards the world of tomorrow and perhaps dig more into the world of fiction. Divide your interview format, create a separate platform by and for a book only format, in the anticipation by the desired intent of a more personal in-depth interview etc. Furthermore, to entertain the notion of a Podcast interview setup, done so to create new innovative appearances for both the interviewer and the interviewee also it gives you the opportunity to get down and dirty with the interviewee.
You have here, a golden opportunity for positive outlook expansion, as well as variety for yourself and the person being interviewed, and to add, that this Podcast format is the most applied platform by todays standard, also it lets you learn more about you the interviewer and the person you are interviewing. You have an absolute unique access to some of the most exciting and brilliant interview objects there is to get a hold off on a global spectrum both inside and outside the high IQ community. Think about the mind-bending opportunities that this could bring for you, both in terms of revenue and publicity. Hope you will one day embrace this idea as many of us would like to see this become a reality!
Jacobsen: Why decide to retire from the world of tests and test construction, and so on?
Jorgensen: Time was apt for change as I can go no further on my quest for new high score records. I currently hold the Norwegian record with my high range IQ score of 184 on my 1st attempt, this is good enough for me. But should someone beat this record, well…
When it comes to designing these high range IQ tests, the selection is so diverse. The creative side of designing something new and exciting as a high range IQ test is valued to be, becomes a bit suspicious to me, due to the fact that the ones I create, are not to be considered as an IQ tests per say, as I am not a certified psychologist, nor am I an expert as to what data I am supposed to collect from the test, i.e., what psychological trait I am supposed to extract etc. My personal excitement of designing these advanced puzzle test, regards to one’s creative engagement has for me now ended.
Jacobsen: For those who don’t know, you’re writing in a second or nth language when writing with me. Most of the high-I.Q. communities tend to do this if taking an international focus. English hasn’t been an issue for many of them. Even so, they learn quickly and adapt – duh. Acquisition of an innate sensibility to emotive content and intuitive-instinctive capacities may be too late for most if learning a language past teenage years; however, the content and capacity to communicate with analytical clarity remains a strong possibility and a trend for those who put in the effort. Have you noticed an improvement in written communication since our first interview together?
Jorgensen: For me personally, as I do not know about you and your opinion as to the level of improvement of my English skills, but as to my own experience, the improvement is tremendous, hopefully this spells well for me as I am about to start an English course this coming fall, at; The University of Agder (UIA).
Jacobsen: How do you prepare mentally for these interviews with me? Questions can range widely. Time commitment can be intensive. The audience of the high-I.Q. will be, by definition, more cognitively powerful, so more likely to be critical of any and all content and opinions expressed. Also, why repeatedly choose to be a willing interviewee (victim) with me? (!)
Jorgensen: When it comes to preparing for these interviews here, there is not much preparation necessary for me to do as I am sitting on most of the information needed to be quoted further and just run with the question formulation presented by the interviewer. But it should be said, that when it comes to interviews, which revolve around historical aspects, some preparations must be made as it can be good to freshen up a little on any eventualities that one should not necessarily remember there and then. When it comes to a part with which you mention with people with high intelligence is a little pickier about what is presented when it comes to spelling of sentences, presentation, content, depth, and variation and so on, then this is not viewed upon as a problem at all, rather as I think that it makes everything a little more exciting. I tend to see it all as a challenge, where you must stay on the alert and do your very best when presenting the topic of discussion, it creates credibility as to what is then being presented, which is just as it should be all purpose intended.
When it comes to the last bit where it refers to being a willing interview object. Think in terms of all ones has on one’s mind, must then be properly present it in the best possible way, thus it is very nice to be able to relate to the people who are good at presenting good quality question formulations, that allows the interviewee to elaborate on and enjoy. And that in turn creates an interesting topic field that many of the article readers out there can then have the opportunity to take part in, which I personally find very exciting and which I think others may think is exciting to gain insight into.
And so, I must be allowed to emphasize that being a “willing victim” in that sense is just the icing on the cake.
Jacobsen: I decided to take a break from social media as an experiment, as I need more time after returning to work following a back injury. I am noticing a lot of time freeing up. Have you tried this?
Jorgensen: In referring to; “time away from social media”, for me it will be a yes and no answer. A bit confusing, I know, but let me explain, I have taken time away from the social media that does not give me enough “feedback”, in the sense of enriching my everyday life. I have become much more alert about which social medias that gets my attention or not. I, for example, was in my earlier years in reference to the high IQ communities, an active person in debates on many different high IQ platforms, I was involved in debates and delivered posts for debate, that could in return be debated. After a while this became somewhat boring for me, as I felt I spent a lot of unnecessary time dabbling on with no real sense of directional purpose. I have a family to considered, and when I had full-time studies and back then as now a full-time job, and to add at that, I spent a lot of time on high range IQ tests, and lastly, I designed my own test page and eleven high range tests, then the hours in a day was just not enough.
Then it was ripe to take stock as to what to remove what could be removed of unnecessary social distractions, so I could again spend my newfound time on what was most important to me. Nowadays I no longer work with high range IQ tests, nor with my test page (toriqtests.com), my focus now is to help bring national and global awareness upon the dire need for proper attention as to correct measurements of education by and for the gifted students. This I have worked on a lot, in collaboration with the school where I work, and the municipal council in my hometown Grimstad, which I am now awaiting for a positive response from the letters I have sent over with propagated directives for educational purposes directed towards the “twice gifted”, this is in collaboration with Professor June Maker from The University of Arizona, who is a pioneer within the field of Psychoeducational Studies. (https://coe.arizona.edu/person/carol-j-maker)
Will also bring forth, of my fervent hope of showcasing this most wonderful community of high intelligence society and all its brilliant intellectuals within it, out to the rest of the global population, through what we here do here and what we are all about. This conveyed through various forums like; articles, YouTube clips, and in the future to be able to write books about what makes us the very special and unique individuals we all are.
Topic of; “time away from social media”, for me, is to specify what type of media that gives the most back as to enrich your everyday life and enables a pursuit for educational enlightenment.
Jacobsen: With more free time, it seems like one of those needless distractions. Do you think people would have more time and focus for time with family, on hobbies, with their partner, etc., if they took a time off electronic devices a little more?
Jorgensen: No doubt, but one must consider that by changing one’s pattern of awareness, whereby one frees up time away from mobile phones, computer games or other things, only to fill it with another activity that meets society’s expectations of expected pro-social behavior not necessarily is for the betterment of the person concerned. One’s sphere of interest can in many cases be experienced as contradictory to what is expected of one persona. The best solution would then be to work within the realm of the famous Golden rule, not too much of anything, nor too little. The acquisition of new knowledge through these technological innovations is not a waste of time, one must bear in mind that everything is relative according to whom it concerns. The joy of life is doing what you want, even if this comes at the expense of those around you. It is society’s expectations of us as individuals, which in turn place limitations on the day’s itinerary.
One’s social circle should not place limitations on that individuals’ specific interests. They should rather be adapted, as I said, everything is relative to everyone’s personal field of interest, what is exciting for me is not necessarily exciting for you, and vice versa. We must adapt, restructure our metal constructs. As time free from something, is only going to be filled with time directed towards something else, and in most cases not in favor of the person concerned. Education comes in many forms and shapes.
Concept of “wasting your time” is then no longer wasting your time, the time you spend on whatever content is thereby valuable to you by that reason alone and is therefore to be considered as not wasting your time at all, but rather valuing it on what you hold dearest to you heart, rather than then the alternative.
Jacobsen: Do you think even for smart people that the temptation of time wasting applications is too much? It feels as if it is a pervasive phenomenon at the moment. Different age cohorts emphasize some social media more than others, naturally. Older generations like Facebook/Meta. Younger generations like Instagram and TikTok.
Jorgensen: We`re are all human; we have all followed the same exploratory path, all humans alike find themselves innately searching for self-recognition through exhibition, we constantly follow the urge to restock on whatever comes our way. The dire need to quench our thirst for recognition on various media platforms is inescapable, age-related, or not. As far as the intellect is concerned, for me at least the jury is still out on that one, but what is clear is that we are all equal regarding our biological blueprints, be that of jocks or nerds.
Controversy or not:
Humans’ primordial instincts still to this day manages to overshadow the sovereignty of man’s intellect…
Jacobsen: We’re doing a series on schooling the young at the moment. What are you hoping to convey to anyone reading it about the importance of proper education?
Jorgensen: That our experience of the concept of education is a fleeting perception of reality. A constantly changing structure, which follows society’s need for virulence incentives. History has shown us the purpose of what underlies that existence until now, but my fear lies in whether it has played out its role today or not. The experience of holding on for dear life as to its very existence or not in the future. More and more of the most forward-looking innovators today renounce the importance of an education right down from kindergarten age and upwards. The social aspect in schools today is unchanged, but not its academic content. Social interaction is perhaps more important now than ever before in the age we live in with all the technological temptations we have today. Before, the children didn’t want to stay at home, they couldn’t wait to get out of the house, now the children no longer want to go out unless they are either taking part in organized sports or being forced to go to school. Yesterday’s children used to be directly involved in social interactions, today they are merely indirectly so.
Social anxiety is on the rise, the same can be said in relation to the refusal to contribute to society after finishing school. What was previously mentioned about “what do I need that particular subject for?”, has now developed into “why do I need to go to school”, I can just become a YouTuber, Instagram celebrity or I will live on my parents until I inherit everything.” The schools’ struggle to keep the students’ concentration, make them see the importance of an education, and do their homework. A transaction from before seeing students present at their school desk both physically and mentally, to now just physical presence but nothing more, as in “I am here am I not, but that’s all you get.” This does not apply to all students of course, but the transition is significant. Much of this lies in the pupils’ ability to access new information, we as teachers are no longer the Wessels of informatics. We are now merely the facilitators of the right method of approach and process of this information. We have gone from lecturers to observers, not that there is anything wrong with that, but this transformation affects the structure of education significantly.
An evolving education is all well and good but based on what terms one might ask. The outcome of this change, for me, is divided into evolving sections. The lecturer as the governing body, a walking encyclopedia that was responsible for all information is handed down. Tired students who had to stay focused on what was conveyed in blocks of 30-40 minutes, are now reduced to lectures with an introduction time of no more than 5 minutes, and then work independently in periods of 20 minutes, then review again by the teacher in periods of 3-5 min, then back to work independently for 20 min, etc.
This use of time flows like this and will progress further according to what I see. Keeping students in school today is mostly of socially importance, but not so much of academically importance by todays educational standard.
When we had the Covid-19 epidemic going around the world, the most important criterion for opening primary schools was the social aspect. It was for the sake of the pupils’ mental health that the schools had to reopen as soon as possible. Today, schools are almost only for the students to get social stimulus. All education today can be done interactively as I see it, as almost all teaching is digital.
The students themselves say that we could do this at home, but not under controlled conditions, at least not well enough as of today. It becomes a bit like at the universities, whereas the lectures are outdated, even looking at a separate lecture at the University of Agder, that around 80% of the students would rather watch YouTube, online newspapers, or betting sites rather than to pay attention to what the lecturer has to say to say. Ask yourself as to what one is actually doing at these fields of studies if it is not to acquire important new knowledge within ones chosen field of expertise.
The answer is quite simple and is experienced in a wide range of primary schools, to meet fellow students, again social interaction, or the protection of student fellowship if you will. The vast majority of students are not at school to learn, but as to as what is pointed out, to meet fellow students. The entire school system is missing the target, but this is nothing new, the only big difference is that today it is just so much more visible not only to the researchers who study this, but to us adults, and to the children themselves. We miss the mark of making education important in the eyes of the children, the exciting factor is not made visible until primary school and most of upper secondary school is over for many of these students. The basic package that all students must go through today must be changed drastically so that the content becomes meaningful for all students, even those who hate school. I have previously proposed to individually adapt the education to create an experience of importance within the student him or herself, which can be equated with the social aspect.
At a much earlier stage, the individual must adapt the content to the individual student’s abilities and aspirations. If this change does not take place in an extended volume, then the future of the current school structure will most likely parish. A global educational commitment to interact must be regarded with the upmost importance to be able to keep up with the technological developments. Furthermore, specially adapted positions must be tailored to the individual student’s wishes, where groups no larger than 10 per individual teacher, who then work with, for example, space travel, or game development or nature management adapted to their age specific level. I the future, the local, and even national/global companies must go all the way down to the primary school’s level, and Conway what they are looking for within their specific fields, and what then the students must work towards. Now, in most cases, this does not happen at primary school level, it first starts at high school level, to late I say, where students today get to choose their field of study.
Get this into primary school level.
The teachers of the future should only be subject-specific teachers on hire from the specialist fields of the commissioned companies. My hope is for that the schools themselves will set up what is needed and order in the proper educators of what to focus on for the next 3 years, then either continue in the same path or change direction. What then you say about learning how to write, read, calculate etc., that should, in my opinion, be done by units with general educators, everything else must be brought in externally to meet society’s need for innovation. This may seem somewhat extreme, but we are now in a time when the current school structure is becoming increasingly outdated, and many aging teachers are unable to change their old and outdated teaching style, so fresh minds must come in who have their mental clocks set on tomorrow’s needs and demands. This will require major structural changes at all levels, but the time is overdue for change anyway, so why not just do it…
Jacobsen: Since you’re credentialed in the study of some aspects of history, what are the perennial issues? Those issues affecting every generation cohort after cohort. What are lessons in those trends through time?
Jorgensen: What remains to be seen, or better yet, what has come to light through studies carried out within the subject of the review reads as follows. History has shown us time and time again, that formative changes within people are patterns from previous set systems with paramount constructs, pursued in the eagerness for the next level events beyond believes. We are demonstrably addicted to ever increasing stimuli of that what already is or in the eternal search for whatever may lie behind the horizon. We are driven by our innate curiosity towards a higher state of existence. This craving after intention conditioned innovative permeates all social structures of society from early days and forward into present day. For me, this innate curiosity is our most important quality by renewal towards a new and rendered state of existence. Our drive towards the unknown strengthens us as individuals, this means that we are better equipped to cope with whatever comes next.
The stamp of opportunism that is tattooed upon us all is not to be mistaken by its mere blinding nature. One can almost say that our opportunism in combination with our curious nature, thereby secures our path from this current stage of existence to the next. I am adamant that this is so, in any case it will be exciting to see what the outcome for our species will amount to in the future of what educational ties to the past has presented to us in the present.
Footnotes
[1] Tor Arne Jørgensen is a member of 50+ high IQ societies.
[2] Individual Publication Date: August 1, 2022: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/jorgensen-9; Full Issue Publication Date: September 1, 2022: https://in-sightjournal.com/insight-issues/.
Citations
American Medical Association (AMA): Jacobsen S. Conversation with Tor Arne Jørgensen on High-Range Tests, Writing, Social Media Dieting, and Teaching: 2019 Genius of the Year – Europe, World Genius Directory (9) [Online]. August 2022; 30(A). Available from: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/jorgensen-9.
American Psychological Association (APA, 6th Edition, 2010): Jacobsen, S.D. (2022, August 1). Conversation with Tor Arne Jørgensen on High-Range Tests, Writing, Social Media Dieting, and Teaching: 2019 Genius of the Year – Europe, World Genius Directory (9). Retrieved from http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/jorgensen-9.
Brazilian National Standards (ABNT): JACOBSEN, S. Conversation with Tor Arne Jørgensen on High-Range Tests, Writing, Social Media Dieting, and Teaching: 2019 Genius of the Year – Europe, World Genius Directory (9). In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 30.A, August. 2022. <http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/jorgensen-9 >.
Chicago/Turabian, Author-Date (16th Edition): Jacobsen, Scott. 2022. “Conversation with Luis Ortiz on Family, Intelligence Scores, and Views: Member, Glia Society (1).” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 30.A. http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/jorgensen-9.
Chicago/Turabian, Humanities (16th Edition): Jacobsen, Scott “Conversation with Tor Arne Jørgensen on High-Range Tests, Writing, Social Media Dieting, and Teaching: 2019 Genius of the Year – Europe, World Genius Directory (9).” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal. 30.A (August 2022). http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/jorgensen-9.
Harvard: Jacobsen, S. 2022, ‘Conversation with Tor Arne Jørgensen on High-Range Tests, Writing, Social Media Dieting, and Teaching: 2019 Genius of the Year – Europe, World Genius Directory (9)’, In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vol. 30.A. Available from: <http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/jorgensen-9 >.
Harvard, Australian: Jacobsen, S. 2022, ‘Conversation with Tor Arne Jørgensen on High-Range Tests, Writing, Social Media Dieting, and Teaching: 2019 Genius of the Year – Europe, World Genius Directory (9)’, In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vol. 30.A., http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/jorgensen-9.
Modern Language Association (MLA, 7th Edition, 2009): Scott D. Jacobsen. “Conversation with Tor Arne Jørgensen on High-Range Tests, Writing, Social Media Dieting, and Teaching: 2019 Genius of the Year – Europe, World Genius Directory (9).” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal 30.A (2022): August. 2022. Web. <http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/jorgensen-9 >.
Vancouver/ICMJE: Jacobsen S. Conversation with Tor Arne Jørgensen on High-Range Tests, Writing, Social Media Dieting, and Teaching: 2019 Genius of the Year – Europe, World Genius Directory (9) [Internet]. (2022, August 30(A). Available from: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/jorgensen-9.
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