Graham Powell & Dr. Dave Thomas on Mobile Medicine
Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen
Publication (Outlet/Website): The Good Men Project
Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2024/12/30
Graham Powell and Dr. Dave Thomas discuss their project to develop mobile CT scanners. Dr. Thomas, who has worked on this idea for 17 years, highlighted that 25% of trauma deaths are preventable, emphasizing the importance of rapid imaging. While CT scanners exist, current solutions aren’t designed for quick, mobile use. Powell mentioned efforts to secure funding, including support from a Dubai-based sheikh. Dr. Thomas discussed the benefits of CT scanners over other imaging methods, noting their speed and effectiveness. The team aims to create a practical, deployable system that could save lives in various emergency scenarios.
Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Today, we’re here with Graham Powell and Dr. Dave Thomas to discuss ECUs, CT scanners, and a proposal for making them mobile. So, what was the initial inspiration for the idea, Graham?
Graham Powell: That came from Dave. Dave has been working on this for about 17 years. He led an emergency department for many years, witnessing countless cases that could have benefited from quicker imaging. As we’ve discussed before, about 25% of trauma-related deaths are considered preventable, making this an area of significant impact. The fact that Dr. Fassbender pioneered the concept of a CT scanner in an ambulance in Germany around 2008 shows that the technology has been available for some time. However, widespread adoption could have been faster, and Dave felt a strong need to address this gap.
Now, 17 years later, Dave has amassed a large amount of data and continues working to bring this idea to reality. We’ve been collaborating on this for about nine months. I’ve known Dave for over 40 years—we met on my 21st birthday—and we’ve shared many experiences.
I’ve followed his journey from his early days as a medical student to becoming a doctor through immigration to Australia and developing a hospital in Mackay. Now that he’s semi-retired, he has more time to focus on advancing this idea for change.
Jacobsen: Are there notable cases where this technology could have made a difference, like Princess Diana’s accident?
Powell: Dave has reviewed the medical reports from that accident and was shocked at how long it took to get her to the hospital. She sat in the car for about 20 minutes while people took photos and talked to her. The medical response was basic and didn’t identify her left lung as the source of significant bleeding, which led to her losing too much blood. This type of preventable delay falls within the 25% of trauma cases we discussed.
In this context, we’re referring to physical trauma rather than psychological trauma. Another example is King Faisal of Saudi Arabia, who was shot and not treated quickly enough, resulting in excessive blood loss and death.
These are just some of the cases we’ve looked at. Still, the same principle likely applies to about 25% of gunshot and severe trauma incidents. Unfortunately, in North America, we frequently hear about school shootings and other violent events. While changing laws can be complex and slow, improving how emergency services respond to trauma could help save lives.
Jacobsen: So, this technology—most people think of an emergency involving an ambulance. You’re imagining a vehicle on a road, ground transport. What about in the air? What about at sea? Could this transportable CT scanner be used in those contexts as well?
Powell: Yes. Currently, air ambulances primarily use helicopters almost exclusively. However, drone taxis are expected to debut next year in Dubai, indicating that technology is advancing rapidly.
The advantage is that while helicopters can travel long distances, drones only need to fly short distances. Hence, the battery impact is less significant. The main concerns are weight and size. We’re in an era dominated by artificial intelligence, so the drone taxis being promoted for next year in Dubai will be autonomous. You can summon them, and the AI will locate you and dispatch a drone to pick you up. This means there wouldn’t need to be pilots navigating or separate medical experts interpreting the telemetry.
We are close to using drone technology in this way, and public perception will soon shift from thinking of accidents as requiring a road ambulance to envisioning flying vehicles coming to pick people up. One advantage of a traditional ambulance is that it has more space for less critical cases and can accommodate four or more people. I don’t know how close we are to that capacity with a drone. However, helicopters will still be available for larger groups. So, the public perception of emergency care and recovery is set to change soon.
Especially in larger countries, we have moved from doctors communicating over a radio system across Australia to more advanced technology. The idea of quickly picking people up and taking them to the hospital is becoming more common. For example, motorized ambulances may remain standard in Britain due to the country’s smaller size. If we put a CT scanner in an ambulance, it would be more traditional.
Given the short distances, as long as we have the technology to communicate and share information with experts, the slight delay of 10 to 15 minutes to get to a hospital would be less significant. This would still be feasible even with current restrictions in Britain.
Jacobsen: Yes, but one barrier to any new technology is finance. How do you envision getting the capital to build a prototype and move this product from an idea to an actual product?
Powell: I have friends with foundations who are interested in the concept. I’m going to be talking to them next week about that. We have a solid business plan that aligns with what people seek, and we can discuss that. I also have a sheikh based in Dubai coming to London next Monday. He wants my assistance in starting a charity, a peace movement that has been active for quite some time.
Since I am in charge of defining the parameters for creating the charity, including our intentions and how it will be managed, I am confident that I can shape it in a way that supports the development of this technology. It doesn’t conflict with a peace movement; it would be much more impactful for a peace movement to have tools to save lives in non-peaceful environments. He’s a powerful, religious leader who meets with figures like the Pope and other world leaders.
You might think that our project is all about formalities and exchanging gifts. Still, our project would offer a practical way to improve real-world situations. I don’t expect any recognition or awards for this. My main interest lies in saving lives.
I’m hoping he will understand my perspective when I speak to him in London next week. You have military cases—the Diana case and the Faisal case—numerous examples of notable figures and service members who could have been saved with telemedicine.
The sheikh’s secretary is from Lebanon. His secretary recently returned to Lebanon, and he’s been in contact with me. You can imagine how the current situation there is affecting him emotionally. This leader’s influence extends to regions like Syria, Lebanon, Israel, and Jordan. Given the current political climate, these areas are highly relevant to our discussion. They must know countless individuals—not just figures like King Faisal or Princess Diana—who have died due to trauma.
Jacobsen: Dr. Dave, as a medical expert, can you explain the advantages of this technology over current solutions?
Dr. Thomas: Basically, it saves lives. If you had a CT scanner on every street corner, you could save up to 10 million lives annually. The leading cause of death under 55 is trauma—being hit by a vehicle or injuries sustained in combat. Trauma, while not common in everyday thought, is catastrophic when it occurs and can be fatal.
When we talk about older populations, strokes and heart attacks become the leading causes of death. These are also time-sensitive conditions that require a CT scanner for quick diagnosis and treatment, such as thrombolysis for strokes. The sooner a patient can get scanned, the better their chances of survival.
CT scanners, however, are not pocket-sized, if you get my drift. But advancements in technology make it possible. While current mobile scanners exist, they are designed for something other than the rapid, in-and-out use we envision. We need a solution to scan and transport the patient to the hospital quickly.
Because after the scan, you will most likely have to take them to a hospital. In some cases, you won’t have to. For example, my friend had severe chest pain and was taken to the hospital. When they scanned him and diagnosed sarcoidosis, they sent him straight home.
Jacobsen: What about cost feasibility? Why choose a CT scanner over other types of scans?
Dr. Thomas: Well, when you say “other,” MRI scans are too slow to be of practical use in emergencies. PET scans are primarily for cancer diagnostics, and while ultrasound is good, it doesn’t match a CT scanner’s image quality or speed. You can get a comprehensive, full-body image with a CT scan very quickly.
Regarding Princess Diana, here there are some interesting details. She was bleeding into her lung, which would have been an immediate concern because it was life-threatening. But she also had a fractured humerus.
So what? People might think, “I don’t care; it’s just a broken arm.” But if that arm is moved while fractured, it can sever the radial nerve. Then, when Princess Diana woke up, she could have had a paralyzed arm—something that was preventable. Trauma is complex, and it’s crucial to consider multiple injuries.
I’ve seen that happen before. It happened to a friend of mine. The focus was on his chest, and they missed his arm injury, resulting in a paralyzed arm. It would help if you addressed both injuries. If you do, the patient can go home with a healthy arm and chest.
Jacobsen: What are your short sales pitches for this idea, Dave and Graham?
Dr. Thomas: Today’s world is entering an era where this kind of technology should become the norm. It’s time to move forward and create something that can save more lives. Ethically, it’s the right thing to do.
Powell: Mine is straightforward: time-dependent conditions need a CT scan, which is lifesaving, and complex cases require global expertise for better outcomes. That’s the main takeaway.
Jacobsen: Dave, Graham, thank you for your time today. I appreciate it.
Powell: Thanks, Scott.
Dr. Thomas: Cheers, Scott.
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