Alan Goffinski, Composition and ‘Terrestrials’
Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen
Publication (Outlet/Website): The Good Men Project
Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2024/10/30
Alan Goffinski is a producer, sound designer, and storyteller, currently a producer and music director for Terrestrials, a Radiolab for Kids podcast. With experience at WNYC, BBC, and more, Alan has earned multiple awards, including 2 Black Podcasting Awards and a Webby. A former touring musician, he co-founded Know No Stranger, an arts collective blending creativity with community. Alan’s diverse talents extend to gardening, fire-breathing, and bicycling, and he served as Executive Director for a community arts nonprofit in Charlottesville, Virginia. He continues to freelance in sound design and music composition. Goffinski talks about his role in Terrestrials, focusing on creating music that engages both kids and adults. Goffinski emphasizes the importance of authentic musical choices, avoiding condescension, and exploring varied genres. They discuss themes like recursive islands and treasure hunts, using music to enhance storytelling and foster emotional connections with listeners.
Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Today, we are here with Alan Goffinski. First question: What is a songbud? I need to familiarize myself with the term.
Alan Goffinski: Honestly, it’s not a name that I gave myself. It’s a name that Lulu Miller, the show’s writer, assigned me. In addition to producing episodes of Terrestrials, my role is to create music, write music, and play it to move the story along, add depth or context, or emphasize a scientific idea or point. You can think of my or this character’s role as a musical sidekick in the program.
Jacobsen: I listened to some of the performers, including a guest named Tasha. I enjoyed her music and listened to some of it before the interview. How did she get connected to the show? How do these artists get connected to the show? Do you search for them, or does another representative find them and ask, “What do you think?”
Goffinski: Yeah, we have a great lineup of musical cameos this season, with Tasha being the first you mentioned. She just released a new album on Bayonet Records. She recently finished a stint on Broadway in the Sufjan Stevens musical. All the cameos featured this season are from artists our team respects and is excited about incorporating into our work. We like to have fun with what we do. In the vein of Yo-Yo Ma on Sesame Street, we figured that including some Easter eggs for adults in the episodes would make the show more enjoyable for everyone, including ourselves. All of these connections are ones I’ve made through music or by reaching out because I was interested in a possible collaboration.
Jacobsen: Now, we have NASA scientists, poets, painters, even ethnologists coming on. It’s a science-oriented presentation. So, how do you characterize music and composition when thinking about scientific topics? Are you in a particular state of mind, rather than Jay-Z giving props to Tom Ford or rapping about New York? When approaching scientific and educational topics, are you asking about the process or the aesthetic choices around composition?
Goffinski: Many of these songs start as a group effort with the whole team. We have an excellent, dynamic team. We’re all friends who love to work together and collaborate. That might be our secret weapon—pitch meetings and brainstorming sessions are creative lightning, generating many fantastic ideas. You’ll notice in the show that we don’t write “kiddie music.” We try not to write down to kids. Instead, we invite them into varied musical genres and styles. This approach is partly because we want to create a family-friendly show everyone can enjoy. We also believe kids feel more valued and appreciated when they hear content that doesn’t talk down to them.
Jacobsen: So, that leads to the question: What does that mean in practical terms, in terms of aesthetic choice? How do you ensure the type of the music doesn’t stay the same while inviting kids into a wider range of musical styles? Because that’s a very interesting point that I hadn’t considered—you’re creating a family-friendly podcast for the whole family rather than just for kids. Some cartoons are strictly for children, with no inside jokes for adults or anything like that.
Goffinski: Yeah, we try not to do that. As much as we’d love to have a global hit like Baby Shark, we’re not trying to create something that annoys parents and makes them want to turn it off. We want the program to be one that people keep coming back to. So, we write songs that can be very emotional or fun, depending on the moment in the episode where the song appears. If we need a musical stinger to transition from one part of the show to the next or emphasize a point, that could be fun and playful. But we’re aiming for a big moment at the end of an episode, where we want kids to connect with the storyteller meaningfully or see themselves in the creature or character we’re focusing on. In that case, we are open to writing something more emotionally resonant. Does that answer your question?
Jacobsen: It helps a bit, but let me ask from a different angle. What are the guiding principles when it comes to musical selection? When people think of kids’ movies, they often have certain expectations, like a PG rating, which influences sound, visual effects, and storyline choices to stay within those boundaries. Are there specific choices you’re making to reflect family values and to create something enjoyable for families? Then are certain musical genres more appropriate for a family environment? Does that factor into your process?
Goffinski: Yes, I understand what you’re asking. Nothing is necessarily off-limits. When I write a song for kids in any genre, I aim to do it authentically. I want to honour the genre’s history and style, not create a caricature. We want it to be truly soulful if it’s a soul song. If it’s a punk song, we want it to feel like real punk. We want the music to have an impact and to resonate with listeners. We choose to include a punk or metal song in an episode. In that case, genre best serves that particular moment in the story. One thing I appreciate about working on this show with this team is that we don’t limit ourselves regarding musical style. We focus on what best fits the story we’re telling.
And I’m writing a different song repeatedly. It’s not all baby music. It’s not all childish. Yes, it’s for kids, but it’s also for us. We make the show and want to love and be proud of it. So, we put everything we’ve got into the songs we write. None of them are throwaways.
Jacobsen: There was one particular episode, “The Bull’s Eye,” about treasure hunts and recursive islands. So, when you’re presenting on Treasure Hunt and Recursive Islands, what does it involve? Is it like an island on a lake, an island on a lake on an island, and so on? I recall a family member mentioning something like this during a camping trip discussion, which was very confusing. So, when you’re thinking about this concept—this idea of a lake on an island on a lake on an island—how do you approach that as a composer? How do you build that into your musical structure?
Goffinski: I’m excited about this one because it was my pitch, and I produced the episode. It allowed me to incorporate music and singing more deliberately and intricately, embedding them within the narrative. Using stacked harmonies and pitch, I was able to illustrate this idea of “stacking”—this nesting effect that happens with the geographic phenomenon of the island within a lake.
I know this can be hard to describe in words, but by stacking these harmonies—using higher voices to represent the tiny island in the center, then building out to the lake, the next island, the next lake, and so on, to the ocean—you end up with this layered, bull’s-eye sound. It’s like a rippling auditory experience that mirrors the concept of a recursive island. It’s satisfying. We use this musical device throughout the episode to help listeners grasp this somewhat confusing and abstract concept, framing it as a treasure hunt.
Jacobsen: That’s interesting—it makes me think of a quest. Is there a way to weave that theme into the musical structure so that listeners almost feel like they’re following a path or hunting for something? Is it possible to create that feeling through the music beyond just using stacked harmonies to replicate what’s happening visually in the landscape? It could even be as playful as Monty Python on their fake horses in The Holy Grail when they’re on a quest and run into the Frenchman or the man with three heads who wants little potted plants.
Goffinski: That concept is captured in the episode’s closing song. We wanted to convey the idea that there’s excitement in the search, in keeping your eyes open and being willing to look at the world in new ways. So, I wrote a very upbeat, driving song that gives a sense of movement—like you’re travelling, moving forward in life, searching for a goal or pursuing something exciting or meaningful.
The song I’m referring to features a Nashville harpist named Timbre. She’s a fantastic musician who adds a delicate yet driving countermelody to the composition. This ties together the overlapping vocal lines and the unique time signature in a beautiful way, balancing the tension of the search with the joy of it and the joy of pursuing knowledge—or, in this case, the pursuit of a hobby or even a small, undiscovered patch of earth.
Jacobsen: What else is important for listeners to understand about using a wide range of musical genres and tuning them to the themes of these episodes centred on education and science?
Goffinski: I always come back to this idea of not talking down to kids. I will not teach them down but invite them into big ideas and conversations. In the same way that we use complex words in the podcast or invite kids along on emotional journeys—like those dealing with grief or loss—the musical compositions can do the same. They can bring kids along and invite them to explore a deeper sense of their own emotions. This way, they feel better equipped to carry what they learn from the podcast into their day-to-day lives—maybe they can exhibit more empathy, find more joy, or keep an open mind when encountering new ideas.
With that musical connection and a song that sticks in their heads, I’d like to think that kids and listeners of all ages can hold onto that experience. Hopefully, they carry it more firmly and deeply in their hearts and emotions.
Jacobsen: Excellent. Alan, thank you very much for your time today. I appreciate it. All good?
Goffinski: We’re good, man.
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