Safa Ahmed on Discrimination Against Indian-American Muslims

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): The Good Men Project

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2024/09/29

Safa Ahmed is the associate director of media and communications for the Indian American Muslim Council.

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Today, we are here with Safa Ahmed. We will discuss a topic, which I previously mentioned with Edward Mitchell from CAIR. It involves political and social fallout, particularly the discrimination against Indian American Muslims. This discrimination is not the sole cause of the issue but acts as an amplifier.

Safa Ahmed: Yes, sure. What this new survey reveals is that 80% of Indian American Muslims are reporting experiences of discrimination and exclusion, particularly by a political version of another religion, Hinduism, in the form of Hindu nationalism, often from their American peers.

For some background on where the idea for this survey came from, the Indian American Muslim Council (IAMC) has existed for around 20 years. It was founded in 2002, right after Modi became the prime minister of Gujarat, a state in Northern India. In 2002, he was the chief minister of that state. Under his watch, and as reported by the BBC, many people claim, with his explicit permission, a pogrom was carried out against Indian Muslims.

Around 2,000 people were brutally slaughtered, raped, and mutilated. It was a horrific bloodbath, and this was labelled retaliatory violence by Hindu militant groups against Muslims who were accused of a crime they did not commit. IAMC was founded then because they saw Narendra Modi as a threat. He was going out of his way to legitimize and mainstream at the state level this political ideology known as Hindu nationalism or, as we at IMC often refer to it, Hindu supremacy—because that is what it is.

It is a movement that declares Hindus as superior, the only actual Indians—similar to the narratives of white supremacy, where there is only one “true” type of person who belongs in a country. For Hindu supremacists, that person is Hindu. They claim that minorities do not deserve to be in India, that they should either be reduced to second-class citizens or wiped out entirely and that they do not deserve any human rights, etc. Additionally, they believe that India should not be a secular democracy but a Hindu supremacist state or an ethno-state. This ideology has existed since World War II in India, even before the country gained independence. It has always been a fringe ideology promoted by Indian paramilitary groups such as the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS), India’s oldest paramilitary group. The RSS has been involved in violence before, and one of its former members was implicated in the assassination of Gandhi.

He was ideologically conditioned by the RSS and Hindu supremacist ideology. This movement existed as a fringe idea for decades. Then, after becoming chief minister of Gujarat in the 2000s, Narendra Modi mainstreamed it in a way that had not been seen before. He made it acceptable for Hindu militant groups to come out of the woodwork and say, “Hey, we have the backing of the state. We have the implicit support of the government to carry out the violence we believe Muslims and other Indian minorities deserve, and we will not face any real consequences for it.”

That inflated Modi’s popularity and eventually led to his becoming the prime minister of India. Again, to provide some context, the IMC saw signs of Hindu supremacy, or Hindu nationalism, becoming more and more mainstream in India, and they believed this would eventually impact the United States as well. This issue has only grown over the past several years, especially since Modi’s re-election in 2019 (he has just been re-elected for a third term). 

The exact date is escaping me right now, but around that time, we began to see a proliferation of support for Hindu nationalism and the spread of its ideology, narratives, and propaganda coming to the forefront in the U.S. Because of this, IAMC has been receiving anecdotal evidence for a long time from everyday Indian American Muslims saying, “Hey, there is something different now about our Hindu colleagues.” Even if it is not always explicitly hateful or racist, they say things, or we have experienced discrimination in one way or another, or there has been a disconnect with people we have been friends with our whole lives. Of course, religious harmony in India was never perfect.

It has never been perfect. However, many people in my parents’ generation, for example—those over 40—remember when it was not a big deal to have friends from a different faith. It was not something that divided people. Now, it has become this sense of community fracturing. The diaspora is fracturing around this Hindu nationalist ideology.

So, we thought this survey would be necessary because there has not been any formal research into how widespread the impact of Hindu nationalism is on Indian American Muslims. When we see these large numbers—80% of Indian American Muslims reporting some form of harassment or discrimination from Hindu nationalist colleagues, friends, or social contacts—it is putting numbers to something the community has known and been aware of for a long time. That is generally the story of statistics following the tacit knowledge already present in the community.

Jacobsen: So, in practical terms, how does this feel for the community? Is this experienced differently in a gendered way?

Ahmed: Yes, yes. Most of the respondents in the survey were male. It was a snowball sample, so these are primarily men responding. However, as an Indian American Muslim woman, I do not think this sort of thing discriminates. There are so many different stories we have heard from people encountering anti-Muslim content online, being told anti-Muslim talking points that closely mirror the BJP’s, even in casual conversations.

I have faced it in college classes from Hindu classmates whom I would not necessarily categorize as Hindu nationalists. However, maybe their parents are, or maybe their parents teach them narratives about India, its history, and the Muslim presence there that are hateful but framed in a way that makes them think it is acceptable to discuss because they believe they are talking about their heritage. It is so widespread that the impact is this collective feeling of isolation, fear, and emotional fatigue, which the report addresses. There has been a mental and emotional toll on Indian American Muslims. Some respondents said, “I am emotionally devastated by what is happening.”

In India, another person said, “I am worried about my kids growing up in this climate of anti-Muslim hate.” Another person said, “My Muslim son is excluded from his Hindu peers’ activities at school.” There is much fear, not just about the threat of Hindu nationalism to communities in the United States, but also a massive fear that violence will be enacted on friends, relatives, and family members in India. Some people in the survey even said, “I’m scared that there’s going to be a genocide against Muslims in India.”

By extension, this includes family members we are constantly worried about. We do not know who is going to be the next target of wanton mob violence or lynchings. This kind of violence is so widespread in India that it carries with it a sense of existential dread for the future of Muslims there.

To bring it back to how Indian American Muslims are feeling specifically, let me pull up the exact statistic for you quickly. A percentage of respondents said they think that Hindu nationalism is a threat to democracy in the United States.

Jacobsen: So, we talked about how it is gendered. We are going to pull some other statistics. When it comes to that gender aspect, what is the data telling us? Because 80% is a large number.

Ahmed: Yes, it is a majority. So, the point I was making before the interview stopped is that, yes, the report surveyed primarily men, but anecdotally speaking, this issue is much larger than just the sample population we had responded to the survey. I would say that regardless of gender—and, in some cases, even location—this is happening a lot in big cities where there is a large Indian diaspora population.

Previously, examinations of Hindu nationalism in the U.S. have mainly focused on places like California and the West Coast, particularly in the significant tech sectors. However, we also had many respondents from North Carolina, for example. That is what I mean when I say location. What we are seeing is that many people, regardless of gender, are impacted by the fact that there is so much online abuse against Muslims. There are so many Hindu nationalist groups in the United States working to push anti-Muslim narratives while collaborating, in some cases, with white Christian nationalists and the MAGA movement, allying themselves with the broader American far right. It is now safe to say that this is a multiracial far-right movement.

In those terms, yes, people are seeing that Hindu nationalism has become pervasive. Groups are trying to push these Hindu nationalist narratives about Indian history into the American educational system. There are also groups in civil society spaces that claim to speak for Hindus but are pushing anti-Muslim propaganda, providing cover for the BJP and its actions in India, and trying to kill resolutions. For example, in Chicago, Hindu nationalist groups lobbied hard to kill a resolution in the city council that labelled the Citizenship Amendment Act in India as anti-Muslim.

So, there is this pervasiveness of Hindu nationalism, including in cultural spaces. Indian Independence Day, which is supposed to be a celebration of Indians of all backgrounds, has been hijacked multiple times and turned into a celebration of Hindu nationalist jingoism. This happened in 2020 in New Jersey and recently in New York with their Indian Independence Day parade.

Ahmed: So that is what we are looking at more broadly. If you want more specific statistics about what we are seeing in the workplace or on social media, 70% of respondents experienced biased treatment from Hindu nationalist colleagues. 48% of respondents reported harassment on social media, which includes platforms like Facebook, WhatsApp, LinkedIn, and Reddit. A lot of Islamophobic content originates in India. It gets posted on these platforms, pushing Muslims into a further isolated state. I am trying to find any other more specific stats to give you.

Jacobsen: I also have data from the poll, as reported in Revelation Unplugged. Other numbers connected to quantitative metrics are also listed.

For example, 90% of respondents agreed that Hindu nationalism is “a threat to Muslims in the United States” and “a threat to democracy in the United States.” 70% reported biased treatment from Hindu colleagues, such as being passed over for promotions or receiving anti-Muslim remarks at work. In addition, 48% reported harassment and discrimination on social media, describing the experience as “emotionally exhausting” and “contributing to feelings of isolation and hostility.”

These large numbers reflect the deep feelings expressed in these poll findings. Suppose you are living in the United States, and you are seeing an arm of this politicization of Hindu ideology into Hindu nationalism affecting your life in a completely different country. What are some things the polls might be reporting on, but not directly, in terms of an interpretive lens on it?

So, if you take the raw data—the 90%, the 80%, the 70%, the 48%, and so on—those are direct numbers related to specific statements about biased treatment, harassment, discrimination, discrimination on social media channels, professional damage, and so on. Are any aspects not directly reported in the poll numbers but reflected in them if you interpret the data more professionally, without mere speculation?

Ahmed: If we are talking about things that are not directly reflected in the survey data, one point might be the sense of vulnerability and fear that Hindu nationalists are collaborating with the far-right in the United States, which could have much more tangible consequences for Muslims of all backgrounds in the U.S. If we were to look at global issues, where does Hindu nationalism play a role in complicating those issues? One place to consider is Israel and Palestine.

Ahmed: Reuters reported on how anti-Palestinian disinformation, aimed at justifying the indiscriminate slaughter of civilians, was spread by Hindu nationalist social media users in India. Hindu nationalism is already costing lives in India and has the potential to affect Muslims globally. There is an enormous network of trolls and influencers spreading disinformation and propaganda, which, while not yet costing lives in the U.S. like it is in Palestine or India, has instilled fear in Indian American Muslims. They worry that, as this movement grows, they will face tangible losses.

Survey respondents reported facing harassment campaigns, coordinated trolling, doxxing, death threats, and rape threats, especially those in advocacy. There is a sense that Hindu nationalism is a well-connected, well-organized, and influential movement with links to other anti-Muslim groups globally. These sentiments were revealed in the survey. I hope that answers the question better.

As your executive director Rashid Ahmed said the survey “provides quantitative proof of what many Indian American Muslims have known to be true for decades. Namely, that Hindu nationalism is a corrosive force in American life, just as it is in India.” It impacts the lives of individual Indian Muslims in the U.S., making it particularly corrosive to American society.

Coming from a nonreligious perspective, I recognize that some movements—despite their positive contributions—have made mistakes in addressing these issues. They sometimes built upon existing anti-Muslim sentiment that has long been present in the U.S. My next question is, what is being done—or can be done—to combat this?

This goes beyond individual or legislative discrimination. We are dealing with an active political movement aiming to undermine equality measures at the policy level.

Ahmed: To address this, we need to have a conversation about the pervasiveness of Hindu supremacy, how so many Americans are unaware of it and the dangers it poses. Civil rights spaces in the U.S. need to examine what Hindu nationalism is, how to identify it, and how to recognize when someone uses the language of human rights and social justice but is pushing a harmful and divisive agenda.

Some Hindu nationalists and groups often masquerade as minority rights organizations or progressive/liberal groups to gain acceptance more quickly in the United States. Of course, there is a problem of racism on the right, so in some cases, to avoid that and get their message heard in more liberal spaces, some of these groups present themselves as human rights organizations. They may hold progressive stances on issues like climate change or civil rights in general. Still, then they turn around and support the BJP and Modi, spreading harmful talking points about Indian Muslims, justifying terrible policies, and opposing civil rights protections for minorities in the U.S. Because they are minorities themselves, they often avoid the scrutiny that a typical right-wing movement would receive, making it easier for them to camouflage.

Every group in the United States deserves protection, respect, and dignity, including Indian Americans of all backgrounds. No one should face racism, but there needs to be greater awareness of Hindu nationalism in certain circles. We need to be able to identify who is trying to divide others and make Muslims feel unsafe in the U.S., which is an affront to the First Amendment, and who is making American political spaces more hostile to minority groups within the Indian diaspora. These actions need to be called out, and spaces should make it clear that there is no room for organizations promoting hate, supremacy, and division.

Policymakers must also recognize that while there have been pushes to take Islamophobia more seriously in the U.S., many efforts have been little more than lip service. Islamophobia is a problem often viewed through the lens of the far-right. Still, there is Islamophobia in liberal spaces, too, and it is essential to combat misconceptions about the Muslim community across the board.

We also need to recognize that a multiracial far-right exists in the U.S., where groups use their minority status to shield themselves while pushing hateful and supremacist movements. Policymakers must understand that addressing Islamophobia starts with identifying the various actors aggressively promoting it online and in policy spaces. Who is demonizing Muslim Americans, making them feel unsafe, and pushing them out of policy spaces? For example, the Illinois Senate passed the Indian American Advisory Council Act, which sought to understand the diaspora community better but ultimately changed the definition of “Indian” to exclude Muslims.

The bill initially defined “Indian” as someone descended from any country in the subcontinent that is not primarily Muslim, including India, Bhutan, Nepal, and Sri Lanka. This excluded millions of Muslims from the definition and reflected Hindu nationalist rhetoric, aiming for a concept called Akhand Bharat, an expanded version of India. This supremacist goal seeks to claim the entire subcontinent as a “greater India.” The law had to be walked back after outrage from Indian American Muslims.

There needs to be a better understanding of how Hindu nationalism quietly influences American politics. It has been doing so for a long time. We need to learn how to identify it and understand its implications to combat it. Civil rights spaces and policymakers should focus on increasing their education and making informed decisions based on that knowledge.

Jacobsen: Safa, thank you so much.

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