This Gay Week 2: Charlie Kirk Assassination, LGBTQ Asylum Cases, and Global Rights in 2025

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): The Good Men Project

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2025/09/26

Charles Karel Bouley, professionally known as Karel, is a trailblazing LGBTQ broadcaster, entertainer, and activist. As half of the first openly gay duo in U.S. drive-time radio, he made history while shaping California law on LGBTQ wrongful death cases. Karel rose to prominence as the #1 talk show host on KFI AM 640 in Los Angeles and KGO AM 810 in San Francisco, later expanding to Free Speech TV and the Karel Cast podcast. His work spans journalism (HuffPost, The Advocate, Billboard), television (CNN, MSNBC), and music. A voting member of NARAS, GALECA, and SAG-AFTRA, Karel now lives and creates in Las Vegas.

Scott Douglas Jacobsen and Karel Bouley discussed the dramatic assassination of Charlie Kirk, the arrest of 22-year-old Tyler Robinson, and the political fallout. Their conversation explored U.S. gun violence, Trump’s rhetoric, and LGBTQ community responses. They examined Canada’s precedent-setting asylum cases for LGBTQ Americans, Rainbow Railroad’s surge in calls, and the persistence of discriminatory bathroom bans. The discussion also highlighted global LGBTQ struggles, from incremental progress in Hong Kong to renewed repression in Russia and Chechnya. Bouley reflected on compassion, political violence, and the need for measured responses amid escalating polarization and human rights challenges.

Interview conducted September 12, 2025 

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: We have a busy week. We begin with the most dramatic moment: the killing of Charlie Kirk—widely described by authorities and media as a targeted political assassination. I watched some of the footage. A listener sent me a video from only a few feet away. It shows Kirk being struck in the neck. He did not survive.

Karel Bouley: From what I know of medicine, a catastrophic neck wound—likely involving the carotid artery—can be unsurvivable, and that appears consistent with reports and the video evidence. Investigators say the shot came from a distance; early briefings and verified videos indicate a single round was fired from a nearby rooftop, roughly a few hundred feet away, on the order of 200 yards or 600 feet.

As of this morning, a 22-year-old Utah man, Tyler Robinson, is in custody and charged with aggravated murder in Kirk’s death. Prosecutors say they will seek the death penalty. Reported evidence includes DNA linking Robinson to the rifle and text messages that appear to acknowledge planning and intent.

Some online claim the identified suspect could not have executed a precise long-range shot; however, law enforcement has outlined specific forensic and digital evidence supporting the charges. At this stage, there is no confirmed evidence of a broader conspiracy or co-conspirators.

Context around the moment of the shooting: witnesses and coverage say Kirk had been taking a question about mass shootings—often in the context of debates over transgender issues—just before the attack. Official agencies have not released any verified details about the inscription on the firearm or ammunition.

One unusual aspect: President Donald Trump publicly confirmed Kirk’s death shortly after it happened and has been highly visible since, including remarks abroad and plans to attend the funeral. Federal agencies say they’re elevating security for the memorial. Presidential confirmation is atypical; typically, authorities or family announce first, but that’s the sequence here.

In LGBTQ spaces, there’s an honest debate about calls for compassion toward Kirk given his record on LGBTQ rights and rhetoric. Whatever one’s view, political assassination is unacceptable in a democracy. You argue, you organize, you vote—you do not kill. That principle has to hold even when emotions are white-hot.

This case also slots into a grim backdrop: gun violence in the U.S. remains pervasive. The killing has already become a political cudgel; Trump and allies have blamed “the left,” while investigators have not presented evidence tying the suspect to any organized group. That leap—from grief to partisan accusation without facts—only deepens the danger.

They have already said he’s a leftist activist and that the left killed Charlie Kirk. That’s irresponsible. It’s also not factual. This is an evolving, troubling story. Gays and lesbians are making it clear they’re not going to miss him. That’s fair. It’s fair to say they’re not going to miss him. There’s a difference between dancing on a grave and simply not showing empathy. I don’t think anyone should delight in his death. I don’t believe so responsible gays, lesbians, or trans people are delighting in his death. I think they’re not upset about it.

I’m upset because it’s another case of gun violence against a public figure in America. It makes me reluctant to do live performances because I can be a galvanizing figure. It has made this an even scarier time in this country. We’ll see how it plays out.

What we know now is that the alleged shooter is in custody. Authorities allegedly have video of him coming off the roof. They claim to have a fingerprint on their forearm. I’ve looked into forensic pathology, and there’s no such thing as a forearm print. It’s not used like a fingerprint. There’s nothing uniquely identifiable on your forearm. But perhaps there’s new technology I’m unaware of.

They also claim to have a partial palm print. Palm prints are not conclusive, but they can be suggestive. We’ll see. Allegedly, he told his father he did it. We don’t know, and we won’t know for some time. What we do know is that Trump has seized the moment to further galvanize his base against the left.

Charlie Kirk was a father and a husband. I wouldn’t debate him, but he had every right to say and do what he wanted.

Jacobsen: The following item is exciting: the Rainbow Railroad, which helps gays, lesbians, and trans people escape from countries where being LGBTQ is punishable by death or criminalized. They’ve had an 800 percent increase in calls from the United States.

There are currently two precedent-setting cases in Canada. Gay people sought asylum, and the judges did not summarily dismiss the cases. The judges are examining whether it may be dangerous for a trans person to live in Arizona. These cases could set a precedent: gays and lesbians seeking asylum in Canada or elsewhere based on anti-LBGTQ rhetoric in the United States.

Bouley: The Kirk shooting directly plays into this story. I anticipate Rainbow Railroad will receive even more calls because anti-gay and anti-trans rhetoric will increase after the shooting. If it turns out the shooter was a trans activist—which I doubt, but if claimed—it will make Rainbow Railroad even busier. We’ll see how the Canadian cases are adjudicated.

Jacobsen: The next issue is the South Carolina bathroom ban. 

Bouley: It’s 2025, and we’re still debating bathrooms. 

Jacobsen: The Supreme Court essentially deferred to the lower courts. Two courts have already ruled that the ban is discriminatory. SCOTUS let those rulings stand, but hasn’t given a final ruling because it wants first to address other cases related to the legality and fairness of bathroom bans.

Bouley: It’s a ridiculous distraction. Meanwhile, Consumer Reports released data this week showing that prices are soaring across groceries and everything else. There’s a lot we could be focusing on, but instead, the Supreme Court is tied up debating bathrooms.

Trans people should be able to use the bathroom of their gender—the gender they are living in. We’ll see. The two Canadian asylum cases are still sub judice; they haven’t been fully adjudicated. I don’t think the Supreme Court will side with trans people broadly, but in this ruling, they effectively did, since they didn’t overturn the lower courts. We’ll see how it plays out, as other pending cases will likely dictate the outcome.

Jacobsen: What else should we know?

Bouley: There’s the case in Georgia. A sheriff’s deputy was prescribed gender-affirming care—essentially gender reassignment surgery—by her doctor. Her workplace refused to pay for it, so she sued, arguing it was discrimination under the 1964 Civil Rights Act, the same Act Charlie Kirk denounced.

A lower court agreed with her and ruled it was discrimination. Another court also agreed. However, the Court of Federal Appeals disagreed, ruling that it was not discrimination. They argued that denying gender-affirming care is not a discriminatory healthcare practice. She could appeal to the Supreme Court. If she does, it will be up to them to decide whether workplaces must cover gender-affirming care.

If it were any other medical procedure, she likely would have been approved. But because it was gender-affirming, it was denied. The lower courts ruled that it was discriminatory. The upper court said no, framing it as an elective procedure. They concluded insurance isn’t required to pay for elective procedures. It’ll probably end up in the Supreme Court.

Bouley: Since we last spoke, Tyler Robinson has been arrested and named as the suspect in the Charlie Kirk shooting. He’s 22. Allegedly, his father turned him in. Reports say there were Discord messages between him and his roommate about the gun and about etching the bullets. He also discussed on September 10, the day of the shooting—or the night before—with family members about Kirk coming to town and how he hated his viewpoints.

The bullet etchings, investigators claim, were anti-gay. One reportedly said, “If you can read this, you’re gay LOL.” Another was the lyrics to the Italian song Ciao Bella. I’m not sure how they’re interpreting those as anti-gay, but they certainly weren’t pro-gay. Robinson is not trans and not gay.

Jacobsen: What about his political leanings?

Bouley: He didn’t vote for Donald Trump or Joe Biden. In fact, he hasn’t voted in the last two presidential elections. According to the Utah election board, his party affiliation is none. He’s unaffiliated—neither left-wing liberal nor right-wing MAGA. It’s unclear what his motive was. Some people are saying he’s already confessed.

It all feels a bit too neat. But that said, it undermines the narrative that this was a left-wing terrorist or trans activist. That is clearly not the case if Robinson is indeed the shooter. Officials are calling him a suspect and a person of interest. He has been arrested and charged with reckless discharge of a firearm, murder, and one other offence.

Trump is calling for the death penalty. I had to check whether Utah has it—and it does. This would be a state case, not federal, since it wasn’t on federal land. The governor of Utah is calling for calm, while Trump is escalating rhetoric. So we have two competing voices: one urging restraint, the other inflaming the situation.

Jacobsen: If Utah pursues the death penalty, how would that work?

Bouley: It would be up to a jury. They’d first have to find him guilty, and then, in a separate penalty phase, decide unanimously on the death penalty. So, we’ll see how it plays out.

Right now, the prosecution’s narrative is neat, tied up in a bow. But Robinson doesn’t fit the story that Trump and MAGA wanted. He isn’t a left-wing radical. He isn’t a Democrat. He didn’t vote for Kamala Harris—or anyone, for that matter. That erases the claim that he was some trans or gay activist, or a leftist ideologue. He appears to be neither.

Since we last spoke, Tyler Robinson has been arrested and named as the suspect in the Charlie Kirk shooting. He’s 22. Allegedly, his father turned him in. Reports say there were Discord messages between him and his roommate about the gun and about etching the bullets. He also discussed on September 10—the day of the shooting, or the night before—with family members about Kirk coming to town and how he hated his viewpoints.

The bullet etchings, investigators claim, were anti-gay. One reportedly said, “If you can read this, you’re gay LOL.” Another was the lyrics to the Italian song Ciao Bella. I’m not sure how those are being interpreted as anti-gay, but they certainly weren’t pro-gay. Robinson is not trans and not gay.

Jacobsen: What about his political record?

Bouley: He didn’t vote for Donald Trump or Joe Biden. In fact, he hasn’t voted in the last two presidential elections. According to the Utah election board, his party affiliation is none. He’s unaffiliated—neither left-wing liberal nor right-wing MAGA. It’s unclear what his motive was. Some people are saying he’s already confessed.

It all feels too neat. But it undermines the narrative that this was a left-wing terrorist or a trans activist. That clearly isn’t the case if Robinson is indeed the shooter. Officials are calling him a suspect, a person of interest. He has been arrested and charged with reckless discharge of a firearm, murder, and one other count.

Trump is calling for the death penalty. I had to check whether Utah has it—and it does. This is a state case, not a federal case, since the crime didn’t occur on federal land. Meanwhile, the governor of Utah is calling for calm, while Trump is escalating rhetoric: two competing voices: one urging restraint, the other inflaming the situation.

Jacobsen: What about Hong Kong?

Bouley: Hong Kong is schizophrenic at the moment. There’s a story of two lesbians who had a child through in vitro fertilization. Hong Kong has now recognized both women as parents and granted them parental rights—a first for Hong Kong. At the same time, their parliament turned down same-sex marriage.

Now there’s a bill under consideration to at least give same-sex partners some benefits. They’re struggling. It mirrors what happened in the United States: some states introduced domestic partnerships that carried maybe 20 or 25 of the benefits of marriage. That served as a buffer until same-sex marriage became legal nationwide.

So it sounds as if Hong Kong may be moving toward something like domestic partnerships, but we don’t know yet. It’s still tied up in their courts and parliament. For now, the recognition of both mothers as parents will help other same-sex couples raising children.

Jacobsen: So, while they rejected same-sex marriage, they might allow partnership benefits?

Bouley: This week, the bill was moving forward, and next week we should see a ruling. It’s difficult in countries—predominantly Asian nations—with strong stigma against LGBTQ couples. But they are coming into the 21st century and realizing gay couples won’t simply accept erasure. Courts are increasingly siding with LGBTQ people, so governments are under pressure.

Meanwhile, in Russia, we’re seeing the opposite. There’s a massive influx of gay refugees into Spain because Putin is cracking down again. Remember, while Chechnya is semi-autonomous, its leader listens to Putin. There’s a concentration camp in Chechnya—a former World War II site—now being used to detain suspected gay people.

There’s a documentary called Welcome to Chechnya that covers this. It won awards. It was produced with the involvement of Jesse Tyler Ferguson, the red-haired actor from Modern Family. He helped bring attention to it.

So yes, Chechnya has operated a concentration camp for at least five years, targeting gay men or anyone accused of being gay. All it takes is an allegation, and someone can disappear. It’s an effective tool for eliminating political enemies, and it continues with Putin’s blessing.

Russia is now cracking down further. Gay clubs, organizations—anything public—are being shut down. Gay people are fleeing. We’ve talked about asylum from America to Canada, but it’s actually easier right now if you’re gay in Russia. There’s proven danger there, so countries like Spain have opened their doors, and likely Malta as well. Canada is also receiving refugees.

More people are leaving as Putin ramps up enforcement against the LGBTQ community. Like so many deluded dictators, he seems to believe he can eliminate gay people. But every society has had them, and always will. The only thing he can do is force people underground. They’ll still exist.

The problem is, there’s no one to stop Russia. The UN denounces, human rights organizations condemn, but no country is willing to spend real political capital to punish regimes for persecuting LGBTQ people. So it’s a patchwork system. If you’re gay in Russia, you escape if you can. And that’s what’s happening—people are going to Spain, Malta, and Canada. Judges in some places are beginning to recognize the danger.

It’s astonishing that in 2025, we still see gay and lesbian refugees fleeing countries around the world.

Jacobsen: Thank you, Karel, for your time this gay week.

Bouley: What a week. The Charlie Kirk shooting has dominated everything. Type “LGBTQ” into Google right now—the first fifty stories are about Charlie Kirk and his stance on the gay community. That’s the biggest story for us this week.

There was even an editorial in LGBTQ Nation titled, “I Won’t Mourn Charlie Kirk.” Personally, I don’t think it benefits our community to dance on his grave so quickly, no matter how despicable he was.

I’ll end with this: When Ronald Reagan died, I was on KGO radio. The day he died, I played Ding Dong! The Witch Is Dead. I was reprimanded. It made national news. I ended up writing a letter of apology to Nancy Reagan, which she received. The reason I apologized was that when I saw her saying goodbye to Ron at the funeral, I saw the same look in her eyes that my mom had when she said goodbye to my dad.

I felt bad. Reagan wouldn’t say the word “AIDS” for seven years. He let my generation die. He laughed about it. So for me, the day he died, I was glad. I was in my forties at the time. I’m a little older now, and I realize there’s a place for that conversation—but not on the day he died. People can’t hear it that day.

And no one who likes Charlie Kirk, but might have an open mind about gay people, wants to see us revelling in his death on the very day he was killed. There’s space to critique his views about gay people, but I don’t think it serves our community to do that before he’s even buried—no matter how despicable he was.

There should be a buffer zone. I learned the hard way with my Ding Dong! The Witch Is Dead incident. My views on Charlie Kirk: I won’t miss him, but I’m not going to celebrate his death or revel in it. I mourn him as an American. Gay people should remember they are Americans first. An American was gunned down in public.

We shouldn’t be shooting anyone in public. Even Trump. When he was allegedly shot, I wasn’t happy. I say “allegedly” because his ear seemed to grow back, and cartilage doesn’t regenerate. But still, it’s the same principle. Privately, if you’re gay and you want to share your relief with friends, fine. But going on social media the day someone dies and rejoicing? That’s not a good look.

I hope people with level heads remember this: an American was shot and killed. Whether he “deserved it” or not is a conversation for later. Not now.

I hope my community rises above and waits until after the funeral to debate his positions. No one is going to change their mind in the heat of the moment. You’re not going to get a Charlie Kirk supporter to suddenly become sympathetic to gay issues by bragging about how happy you are he’s dead. That won’t happen.

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