Paul Bramson on Communication, Confidence, and Coaching

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): The Good Men Project

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2024/11/06

Paul Bramson is among the most impactful and gifted keynote speakers and trainers globally. He consistently delivers compelling talks and training workshops that leave a lasting impression. Paul is recognized as a thought leader in communication, leadership, and sales. He has over 25 years of experience inspiring all levels of professionals, leaders, and teams. Paul’s ability to captivate and entertain audiences stems from his genuine passion, unique talents, and commitment to improving. He has recently been featured in BuiltIn, MSN, GoBankingRates, Fortune, and Forbes. Hediscusses knowing his communication talents early, becoming president of his high school class, and realizing his passion for public speaking. He talks about developing communication, sales, business, leadership, and keynote speaking skills while emphasizing the importance of confidence, preparation, and audience management. 

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Today, we’re here with Paul Bramson to discuss communication. I have an earlier live question for you. Did you show any early talents or personality style suggesting that you were interested in or effective at communication? Were there any moments in your early life where you realized this?

Paul Bramson: In my life. 

Jacobsen: Yes.

Bramson: What do you think? I just woke up as an adult. I love this question, Scott. I’m going to be very American with you, so be ready. 

Jacobsen: You might be fitting to sound more stereotypically New York.

Bramson: I’m from Boston.

Jacobsen: Oh, you’re from Boston? Excellent! 

Bramson: I went to Boston University. My communication journey began early. I was big into sports and was captain of the basketball team. But it really started when I became president of my high school class, and I got the chance to speak to bigger audiences. That was the moment I thought, ‘Wow, I enjoy this, and I’m pretty good at it.’ However, as an adolescent, you don’t fully know. That was a tell-tale signs. That was a key moment when I realized I wanted to speak in front of people. That passion grew from there when I went to college.

Yes, I joined a fraternity and did a lot of socializing, but it wasn’t until I entered the business world—when I went into sales—and eventually became an international sales speaker and trainer for MCI Communications, traveling the world. I thought, ‘Wow, not only do I love doing this, but I’m also good at it.’ It was a gradual build-up from high school to college, to the work world, and then at age 32, I went out on my own.

Jacobsen: What was your experience with the fraternity? Did that help build your communication skills?

Bramson: It’s been a long time since I’ve talked about my fraternity. Scott, sometimes, people know they’re good at communicating with others. I was good at that. I worked as a bartender and at the doors, so I knew I could communicate well. However, that doesn’t always transcend into the work world.

I recognized I had strong communication skills, and I used them a lot within the fraternity and college life. The next logical step for me, though I’m a lot older than you, Scott, was to move into sales around 1992–1993. Sales helps you, more then than now, to leverage those communication skills. 

Jacobsen: When you are giving training and workshops, and public speaking and professional keynotes, what would you say are the emotional hurdles that can come from most people when they are beginning to do those things… 

Bramson: What do you mean by that?

Jacobsen: I mean by that the Jerry Seinfeld joke that people’s number one fear is public speaking. 

Bramson: Oh, it’s not even close. 

Jacobsen: Their number two is death. So, they’d rather be in the casket than giving the eulogy. 

Bramson: [Laughing] That is his. I used to use that one.

Jacobsen: There you go. In that sense, when you are helping people train in these skill sets, what do you look for in terms of difficulties that they may be commonly having, so you can help them as speakers, as communicators?

Bramson: When I do training, there is a difference between training and keynote speaking. So, I talk about all different topics. Sales, leadership, communications, connecting like a pro is a big one. What you’re talking about is presentation skills, people are nervous because they feel very vulnerable speaking in front of people. They need to get more reps at speaking in front of groups. The biggest challenge is the nervousness. They have been coached and trained appropriately, especially your generation and lower. There wasn’t a lot of the verbal communication, more tethered to the technology. I’m sure you’ve heard all of this, Scott. It is getting more reps and more appropriate coaching from people that are credible and getting less nervous doing it. When you’re older, you have the emotional intelligence and self-awareness to say, “What makes me nervous? What doesn’t make me nervous?”

When I’m in front of people, as long as I know my content, Scott—and this is the key thing—you’ve got to know your content. You’ve got to be prepared. Right now, you’re winging this interview, so I’m making you pivot. I can tell from your facial expressions, “Wow, he’s making me work a little harder at this.” By the way, when you know your content really well, and you do; if I know my content, I’m really good—like world-renowned good, Scott. I realized this when I was younger. I have a lot of inherent, innate skills. I can be charismatic, I can be dynamic. But the other thing I have, Scott, is that I know how to manage an audience. There are three things: you have to know your content, you have to be dynamic, and you have to be able to manage your audience. I can do all three. I knew that at a young age.

Here’s something interesting, Scott: I’ve never had imposter syndrome. I never experienced it. That’s a popular concept these days, right?

Jacobsen: Yes, it comes up a lot when people talk about these topics—even among highly successful people. 

Bramson: You have a good radio voice, Scott. 

Jacobsen: I appreciate that. 

Bramson: I didn’t say face. I said voice. 

Jacobsen: That’s right. 

Bramson: You’ve got an excellent voice.

Jacobsen: There’s this George Carlin line.

Bramson: Did you say, George Carlin? [Laughing] You love the comedians. 

Jacobsen: He once said that various comedians he knew, who were prominent at the time, were “wracked” with self-doubt. That was his word—“wracked.” 

Bramson: Comedians are a different bird. There’s something wrong with comedians to begin with, but that’s another story, as you probably know. Sorry, finish your question.

Jacobsen: Yes, so, when I hear the common more contemporary phrase “imposter syndrome,” which is popularized, I think of the more straightforward language of a prior generation of “self-doubt.”

Bramson: Fair. 

Jacobsen: Someone could have all the skills, they could perform well, but emotionally, they lack that security tied to their abilities. 

Bramson: Now, Scott, you’d have to put them on a therapist’s couch for that. There are some deep-rooted issues at play. But let’s say, we’re not having that conversation.

Jacobsen: Right.

Bramson: Imposter syndrome can come from a lot of different area. In my experience, I never lacked confidence in myself. I thank mom and dad for a strong upbringing. In my experience, aside from getting on a psychiatric couch, the reason why people experience imposter syndrome is that they don’t feel like they belong in that environment. They might be speaking to a much more educated or credible group, and they don’t feel they have the credibility. This is the kind of thing that leads to imposter syndrome from what I’ve seen working with people, especially with people who haven’t developed the skill set. If they haven’t been coached or trained appropriately, it’s like a professional athlete, Scott.

Unless you’ve had the reps, proper training, and coaching, I’ll use hockey as an example, which I’m sure you love being in Canada—I could be wrong. Imposter syndrome, especially among the young, stems from not feeling like they belong in that arena with more experienced people. When young people communicate to older audiences, they feel that imposter syndrome because they think they don’t have the credibility to do it. However, if a younger person has a strong skill set—such as being able to communicate well and having some emotional intelligence—that can mask or create a credibility.

For example, I might be older than you, Scott, but I could think, “Wow, Scott is a better communicator than I am.” As a result, I want to listen to you. Does that make sense to you?

Jacobsen: Yes.

Bramson: I hope that answers your question. 

Jacobsen: What do you find is the baseline skill set most people lack when they come for communication training? 

Bramson: Are we talking about communication, sales, leadership, or all of the above?

Jacobsen: Just communication.

Bramson: So, it depends. This gets a little deeper, especially when we’re talking about presentation skills. What do they lack? Confidence. They lack confidence, but eye contact, movement, posture, gestures—those are all visible actions. People often lack tremendous confidence in executing them. They simply haven’t put in the reps. They often fail because they haven’t practiced enough.

Jacobsen: How long does it take, or how many reps do they need? That’s a two-part question. 

Bramson: Well, this is complicated because reps can vary depending on the audience, the content, or the role they’re in.

Typically, they need about five years of consistent practice. I’m not just talking about getting up and doing one speech. You could do a speech 10 times, practice how you look and sound, and get good at that specific speech. But if we’re talking about building a foundational skill set, it takes about two to three years of consistent practice—at least once a month—to become proficient.

This takes real work, Scott, if you want to be “really good at it.” 

Jacobsen: But how often do you meet people who are motivated to become “really good at it”?

Bramson: Plenty of people say, “I wish I were more confident speaking in front of others.” That’s a huge crowd. People are always enamored when I tell them I’m a professional speaker. They ask, “What do you speak about?” I tell them sales, leadership. They’re like, “Wow, that’s exciting! I could never do that.” I hear it all the time. How do you feel speaking in front of people, Scott?

Jacobsen: Oh, I’m okay. 

Bramson: Do you wish you were better?

Jacobsen: It’s always nice thing to be a little bit better at something, sure. 

Bramson: “Something” or something like that?

Jacobsen: Sure, depending on what it is. It’s probably not good to become a better thief.

Bramson: Sure, but I said something like presenting.

Jacobsen: Yes, something virtuous like that. 

Bramson: “Virtuous” is a good word.

Jacobsen: Yes.

Bramson: This kind of improvement takes time. I still work on presentation skills, but it’s not as popular as it used to be. It’s still popular, but what’s more popular now is how to communicate effectively with people—that’s the connecting part. How can someone connect with others better when they communicate? That’s the stuff that resonates with people now. Presentation skills are still fine. I do virtual presentations. My team does them too—virtual and face-to-face presentation skills. The big ones are connecting like a pro. How can I better connect with Scott so my message resonates with him rather than speaking one way? 

Jacobsen: Do you find this particularly poignant in sales and business?

Bramson: Life, Scott. Yes, it’s a life skill, Scott. If I know how you’re built—I call these your “underlying needs”—then I can speak in ways that resonate more with you. That’s part of a program I offer. If I understand your underlying needs, I can speak words and language more likely to resonate with you. You’re more likely to listen and engage. For example, do you have people in your life who absolutely drive you crazy when they talk to you? The answer is, ‘Yes.” They don’t know how to talk to you. On the flip side, do you have people in your life who just “get you”?

Jacobsen: Yes, in different ways and to different degrees.

Bramson: And you prefer to be around the people who get you, right?

Jacobsen: Sure, when I get out and want to socialize. 

Bramson: That’s because some people connect better with you than others. Let me give you an example, Scott. I won’t tell you what my specific underlying need is, but there are generally four: the need to be right, the need to be liked, the need to feel safe, and the need to look good. I’m on one of those needs. Do you remember what I asked you at the very beginning of this conversation?

Jacobsen: No, I don’t.

Bramson: I asked if you had done any research on me. 

Jacobsen: I said, “No.” 

Bramson: Now, that doesn’t resonate with me—not that Scott doesn’t resonate with me, but that statement didn’t. My underlying need is the need to look good, so I appreciate when people show they’ve prepared. I’m not saying you were disrespectful, but that’s an example of how our needs affect how we connect.

Bramson: So, I want to be clear. I’m not saying that. But if you had said, “Paul, I’ve done all this research about you,” that would have connected with me. When you say, “I’ve got nine other people,” I don’t care about that. I care about you and me connecting. Does that make sense?

Jacobsen: Yes.

Bramson: Now I’m assessing your underlying need. You’re not motivated by the need to look good, by the way. I don’t think that’s one of yours. You’re likely motivated by one of two things: the need to be right or the need to feel safe. Maybe the need to be liked, but not the need to look good. I haven’t fully defined this for you yet, though.

Jacobsen: Right.

Bramson: Anyway, that’s the connecting piece. 

Jacobsen: That four-part theory—is there an underlying psychological framework for it?

Bramson: I’ll make it easy for you. This isn’t about personality types, like Myers-Briggs or a DISC profile. Those are institutionalized systems. They’re fine. They have their place. What I’m talking about are motivational drivers. Why do you behave and react in certain ways when people talk to you? What makes you feel fulfilled or unfulfilled? That’s the underlying basis.

Jacobsen: Where do you find that people seeking communication, business, or sales skills usually fall within those four categories?

Bramson: It’s not about the person but rather the roles they gravitate toward. 

Jacobsen: That’s an interesting question.

Bramson: No, seriously, that’s a great question. I mean it. Very astute, Scott. Typically, people tend to go into roles that align with their underlying needs. It’s about what makes them feel fulfilled or not. For example, in sales, the need to look good and the need to be liked are common. These roles might attract people who want to stand out or build relationships or flex a  bit..

People in account management or engineering roles are more often driven by the need to be safe or the need to be right. They prefer predictable, process-oriented structure. The only reason I hesitate to peg you as someone driven by the need to be safe is that you’re a freelancer, which isn’t the safest of the roles. 

Jacobsen: [Laughing]. 

Bramson: [Laughing] Do you value relationships? 

Jacobsen: It depends, yes, to some degree, particularly close, intimate ones.

Bramson: If you leave this conversation, will you think about whether Paul liked you or whether Paul respected you? Which would matter more to you?

Jacobsen: Third option: neither.

Bramson: No, no, no. There’s no third option.

Jacobsen: Neither really matters.

Bramson: Don’t sidestep the question, Jacobsen. 

Jacobsen: It’s both.

Bramson: You might lean toward the need to feel safe. I said that earlier. 

Jacobsen: It might also be a false dichotomy.

Bramson: [Laughing] It’s not a false dichotomy. They’re not that dissimilar. There’s a lot of overlap. Anyway, I knew I was right. Let’s keep going.

Jacobsen: What are the stumbling blocks that are rarely encountered, but you do find? I’m thinking about areas where people, even after a year of learning basic skill sets and getting those reps in, still struggle. It’s not necessarily about skills or emotional motivations. So, when people are, let’s say, two to three years into developing a foundational skill set, or maybe even up to five years in to become proficient—whether it’s in sales, leadership, communication, or other areas—they’re quite far along. Yet, many people still face common issues, like a lack of confidence, imposter syndrome, or self-doubt. But I’m curious about the rarer challenges people face, even after getting training from you or others. What uncommon stumbling blocks come up at later stages of development?

Bramson: That’s a thoughtful question, so I appreciate it. I’ll give you an answer, and I hope it addresses what you’re asking.

What I’ve noticed isn’t something specific to the younger generation. The Gen Zs of the world are full of, excuse my language, piss and vinegar. They’re ready to take on the world, and they want to be better. They question things, but it’s to evolve.

However, as people progress in their careers, the one thing that is absolutely eye-opening to me is the lack of emotional intelligence, Scott. It’s scary. So, to answer your question—it’s not really an outlier, but it’s a significant issue.

Emotional intelligence has five elements, according to Daniel Goleman: self-awareness, self-regulation, motivation, empathy, and social skills. What I often see is a glaring lack of self-awareness and self-regulation, especially in leadership roles. It’s shocking, really. These are people leading teams, yet they lack those essential emotional skills.

Emotional intelligence has been around for years, and in the early 2000s, companies started to recognize the importance of soft skills. But even now, the absence of emotional intelligence in leadership is a real problem.

I’m not going to invest in this. But fast forward to 2024, and emotional intelligence is high on the list. The problem is that people aren’t being trained or coached appropriately, and they don’t interview for it.

Jacobsen: When they’re not interviewing for emotional intelligence, what about empathy? That’s one of the five elements of Goleman’s framework, which you mentioned. As I’ve interviewed experts on narcissism—and I’ll be interviewing more—there seems to be a rising tide of narcissistic traits over the past several decades.

Bramson: Did you say narcissism?

Jacobsen: Yes. There’s been a rise in narcissistic traits—not necessarily full-blown narcissistic personality disorder, though that might follow from the trend. It’s more of a cultural shift, with a rise in certain traits or subcomponents of narcissism. Social media might be a factor, but regardless of the cause, do you think a reduction in empathy is connected to that? Does this impact people’s ability to excel in sales, business, and communication?

Bramson: Empathy has a bigger impact on leadership, though it’s important for everyone. From a leadership perspective, empathy is often lacking, and it’s crucial—along with compassion and sympathy. While they aren’t the same, they’re closely related and fall under the same umbrella. But it’s not just empathy that’s the issue.

There’s also a significant lack of social skills. Some people just don’t connect well with others, and yet they’re put into leadership roles. It’s like, wait a minute—you’re leading an organization, but you don’t have the social skills to connect with people? That’s counterintuitive. So, it’s not just a lack of empathy; it’s also poor social skills. And those two—empathy and social skills—are critical for connecting well with others. The first three elements of emotional intelligence are more about the individual.

So, I’d argue it’s a combination: yes, empathy is lacking, but so are social skills. Have you ever been around someone and thought, “My god, they’re awkward”? I’m sure you’ve interviewed people like that—people who come across as awkward despite their professional achievements.

Jacobsen: That’s fair. Some people’s professions speak to those issues, and others just come across that way naturally. Recently, there was a story involving a student association. The student newspaper was reporting on improper actions by some of the executive members, and I reached out to interview them about it.

There was a petition to dissolve the student newspaper and the arts publication, along with the ink society publishing house. They wanted to remove any mention of the student association from past or future publications. The petition seemed questionable, with invalid student IDs and mismatched names.

One individual told me it was their first interview, as they had just jumped into the job. It was an awful situation to start with, so I kept the interview short and light. In that case, it wasn’t necessarily a lack of skills but rather sensitivity to inexperience. It echoes what you said earlier—sometimes younger people haven’t had the chance to develop those emotional or social skills yet.

So rather than something situational, they might be on the spectrum, or there might be something that makes it harder for them to develop these skills. That’s something deeply rooted. And it’s not something easily extirpated. It’s just there.

Bramson: Yes. 

Jacobsen: So you have to be sensitive to that. I’m not sure what my question is exactly, but when dealing with leadership and someone lacks those skills, how do you build them up? And if the issue is intrinsic, how do you help them develop those skills? I might be assuming something in that question, because it’s probably more about helping them facilitate their own development, rather than just teaching them.

Bramson: That’s fair, of course. Well, let’s do the first part first, and then don’t forget the second part. Do you have the second part ready?

Jacobsen: Yes.

Bramson: I’ve done a lot of this in my career, though I’ve moved away from it recently. You need one-on-one coaching. Forget about psychologists and sociologists—you can have them, but I once worked with a company that had a psychiatrist on staff. Fascinating guy, super smart. He was from Chicago and did institutionalized work with them, which was helpful, but most companies won’t do that. People need one-on-one coaching.

For instance, Scott, if I spent an hour with you, I wouldn’t be where I am today, but I’d be more effective after that hour—not because I don’t respect you, but because we’re talking about deep coaching. You’ve got to get into someone’s psyche, understand how they grew up—that’s something you touched on earlier. You need to understand their foundation and start from there. For example, let’s talk about where someone is empathetic and why they feel less empathy in certain situations.

Coaching is essential. No one gets better on their own—they just don’t. By the way, someone who grows without coaching or without what I call a “personal board of advisors” or mentors will find it hard to elevate. Sure, they can attend a training program, which is fantastic. But after leaving a great training program, it’s like a sermon—they’ll forget it in two weeks. You need consistent follow-up coaching. That’s how you become more aware and better. I hope that answers your first question.

Jacobsen: And what if the issue is intrinsic?

Bramson: What do you mean by intrinsic?

Jacobsen: So, qualifier: I’m not a medical professional. But if someone comes to you and says they have a particular issue that results in social deficits—something intrinsic that a medical professional has diagnosed—how do you handle that?

Bramson: That’s something for a medical professional to handle. If someone tells me they have a personality disorder, I’m out. I won’t go near that because I’m not a medical professional. I know what I’m good at, and I stay in my lane. I’m not a medical professional, so I can’t provide medical advice. When you talk about intrinsic or foundational issues—oh, I’m out. It’s funny—not funny in a humorous way, but interesting that you bring this up.

If someone brings up medical issues, I say, “I’m out.” I don’t touch that. You need to talk to a medical professional. I can discuss things from a work perspective, or from a life or work landscape perspective, without touching on medical topics. That’s where I’m comfortable. But anything medical—I’m out. People take medication for these issues, Scott, and if anyone without a medical degree attempts to handle that, it’s a scary situation. I wouldn’t go near it. So, are you getting what you need?

Jacobsen: Yes, this is interesting.

Bramson: Good. By the way, you’re doing a great job, Scott. Are you an academic? You’re very thoughtful. I imagine you were good in school. I have a slight suspicion. Either that or you didn’t try hard. 

Jacobsen: I’d say average in school.

Bramson: But you come across as very sharp. You come across as an academic, and that’s a compliment.

Jacobsen: Thank you. So, what’s your take-home message for people at the end of a session, like a keynote? When you finish up a keynote, what are you hoping people walk away with?

Bramson: I want them to be better. I want them to be better at work and better in life. People often get into relationships—whether it’s a work relationship or a personal one—and they don’t understand why things aren’t going well. The relationship isn’t evolving positively because they don’t connect well. You need to ask yourself, “Why is that?” It could be something you’re doing, or it could be something they’re doing, but you need to coach people to be better.

As Dr. Phil says, you have to teach people how to treat you. The other thing I want people to take away is this: stop talking from your own perspective and start speaking from someone else’s perspective if you want to connect with them. That’s what I want them to do. Stop communicating the way you’re built and start communicating based on how others are built. You’re more likely to connect if you speak the way they think, not the way you think.

Jacobsen: Drop the mic?

Bramson: Drop the mic! I’ll drop the mic on that one.

Jacobsen: I’m sure you do that occasionally.

Bramson: I will drop the mic!

Jacobsen: Excellent. It was nice to meet you. Thank you so much for your time today.

Bramson: Scott, thank you for carving out the time. I look forward to seeing the article. Excellent. It’s been a pleasure.

Jacobsen: Thanks, Paul. We’ll see you soon.

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