Dr. Sammy Ramsey on ‘Terrestrials’ and Insects

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): The Good Men Project

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2024/12/16

Dr. Sammy Ramsey is the founder and director of the Ramsey Research Foundation. He graduated with a Bachelor of Science in Entomology from Cornell University in 2011 and focused his research on Predatory & Parasitic Insect Behavior. He cultivated an interest and expertise in the close relationships between insects and other creatures (symbioses) and dedicated his doctoral research to understanding a parasite killing honey bees globally (Varroa destructor). He completed his formal education in Dr. Dennis van Engelsdorp’s Honey Bee lab at the University of Maryland, College Park. Honeybee and native bee health is declining worldwide, with record loss rates in honeybee populations becoming routine (higher than 40% of annual losses reported for 2018). These insects are so integral to crop production that challenges to their health threaten food security worldwide. Ramsey emphasizes the importance of effective science communication, drawing from personal experiences and his entomology expertise. He highlights the need for empathy and storytelling to engage audiences, making complex topics relatable. Dr. Ramsey connects with diverse audiences by sharing anecdotes, such as overcoming his childhood fear of insects and discussing the surprising nutritional properties of roach milk. He also underscores insects’ evolutionary advantages, genetic adaptability, and teamwork in eusocial systems. As a contributor to the kids podcast  Terrestrials from Radiolab & WNYC, he challenges listeners to rethink assumptions about insects, fostering curiosity and appreciation for their resilience and diversity.

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Today, we’re here with Dr. Sammy Ramsey. In public science education, figures like Carl Sagan and Neil deGrasse Tyson have made significant contributions. What key lessons do you aim to share when you’re in the public eye, whether on broadcasts or other platforms, educating people about science or related topics? Many spend years earning doctorates and specializing in their fields. How do you communicate your expertise in a way that’s accessible to those who may not have the same level of expertise or familiarity with scientific language?

Dr. Sammy Ramsey: Language has always been incredibly important to me. I’m increasingly recognizing that, as scientists, we often need to receive more communication training. We’re selected for our positions because we’re skilled researchers who can get the work done in the lab. However, communicating that work effectively is only sometimes a priority in our field. Sharing findings beyond scientific journals is not typically considered part of our job.

This issue became especially apparent during the pandemic when people needed to trust, listen to, and believe scientists. Unfortunately, many people didn’t know us or feel a connection with us. People are far more likely to trust someone they are connected with or understand.

As a result, during this life-threatening event, many individuals turned to TikTok or celebrities with no scientific training for information. This became glaringly clear when my mom shared a video featuring the actor Tyrese Gibson in our family group chat.

Do you know who Tyrese is?

Jacobsen: No.

Ramsey: Have you seen the Fast and Furious movies?

Jacobsen: Yes, I have.

Ramsey: He’s one of the bald guys in those movies. He used to be an R&B singer—famous for his toned physique and dramatic performances. Now, he’s something of an internet celebrity, making viral videos.

In one of his videos, he claimed that if someone thought they had COVID-19 or had been exposed to it, they should boil a pot of water, sprinkle in some salt, place a towel over their head, and inhale the vapours. He said this would burn and cure all COVID-19 particles out of their noses.

Jacobsen: Wow.

Ramsey: That video had over a million views and tens of thousands of comments. People said things like, “Thank you so much for sharing the truth!” or “This is so helpful! Now I know what to do.” Seeing how much trust people placed in him despite his lack of scientific expertise was shocking.

Ramsey: It just continues to reveal to me that when we, as scientists, spend our time siloed in a laboratory and don’t engage in communicating science, we can’t expect that when an emergency arises, we can suddenly run out into the streets yelling, “Hey, listen to me! Trust me, I’m a doctor!” It’s become an important part of my work, not just to communicate science myself but also to help others do the same.

I’ve taken on the role of a science communicator, similar to the Neil deGrasse Tyson style you described. I work to engage people by making science accessible and interesting. At the same time, I’m training other researchers who are doing incredible work, helping them understand the importance of communicating their findings effectively.

It’s been a great experience. I’ve had the opportunity to develop my course in science communication. In just two years, it’s become a popular course, and seeing its impact has been rewarding. Before the next major scientific crisis occurs, we’ll have trained more scientists to communicate their work effectively.

Jacobsen: Your specialization is entomology, so you’re dealing with insects and bugs. How do you foster their appreciation for insects when communicating this to kids? Kids often either crush bugs out of fear or follow a ladybug around the yard out of fascination. How do you channel that childlike curiosity into something more like an empiricist’s curiosity?

Ramsey: I love that you mentioned “empiricist curiosity” because that’s exactly what’s most effective in engaging people with this subject. I often share my story—how I was terrified of insects as a kid and transitioned from that fear to an obsession.

When I was seven, my parents noticed that my fear of insects had become irrational. I had recurring nightmares about bugs and even struggled during recess because of them. They decided to do something about it. They took me to the local library and left me in the insect section.

My mom told me, “People fear what they don’t understand. Learn about these insects, and it’ll change things.” She had no idea just how much it would change things. Later, as an adult, she admitted she had no real plan—she was trying anything that might work.

Well, it worked—exceptionally well. On the way home from the library that summer, I told my parents, “I’m going to be an entomologist when I grow up.” I always followed that path.

What drew me to insects was their resilience. I was always the tiniest kid—40 pounds in second grade, and by the time I got to college, I still didn’t weigh 100 pounds. Insects, being some of the smallest organisms on the planet, seemed relatable to me strangely.

Despite their size, insects are the most successful organisms on Earth. They’ve figured out how to thrive in nearly every terrestrial niche, and every ecosystem depends on insects in one way or another. Their small size doesn’t limit them; it’s part of their strength. That realization made me fall in love with them.

The oceans are the only part where insects have yet to take over fully. They are the most diverse group of organisms on the planet. When I teach insect biology at the university, the first lecture begins with this: “You are now in a class where we are going to study diversity.”

That might confuse students because they signed up for entomology, but entomology is the study of diversity. There is no more diverse group of organisms on this planet. If you were to gather all the species of mammals, birds, fish, and reptiles and combine them into one group, there would still be fewer of them than in just one family of insects.

One family of insects! That is one of those mind-boggling facts that helps students appreciate how remarkable these organisms are, just as I did when I was a child.

When I talk to kids about insects, I try to take them back to where I was at their age. I want them to understand that their size does not diminish their capacity to impact the world even though they’re small humans.

Kids have a unique perspective in many ways. They see the world differently than adults, who often assume their perspective is the most accurate. I show kids all the fascinating things people miss about insects because they don’t look at them up close. Adults tend to see insects from a metaphorical 30,000-foot view. By helping kids explore this “microcosmos,” I connect with them on a deeper level.

Jacobsen: Is it part of the diversity because insects have existed longer than mammals and have short life cycles, allowing for much more rapid changes over time?

Ramsey: Exactly. Insects can evolve much more quickly than what we call K-selected organisms. When you think about life history strategies, we plot them on a selection curve. Some organisms follow a “live fast, die young” model, with populations that grow quickly but have shorter lifespans.

On the other hand, mammals typically follow the opposite strategy. It takes them a long time to reach sexual maturity, and they live much longer. Because of this slower generational turnover, evolution has less opportunity to act on mammals than insects, where rapid generational changes drive faster evolutionary processes.

Ramsey: What has truly made insects the most populous and diverse group of organisms on this planet is teamwork. Eusociality—the capacity for organisms to work together toward a common goal, with overlapping generations raising their offspring collectively—is the most successful life cycle on the planet.

Bar none, nothing even comes close. Ants, bees, wasps, and termites have dominated ecosystems worldwide by adopting this approach. They’ve even become the envy of other animal groups. You can see this in mammals, where naked mole rats have also adopted eusocial behaviour. But they’re the only mammals to do so, whereas insects have cornered the market on this strategy. It has allowed them to thrive in countless ecosystems. The sheer biomass of ants alone is staggering. Ants outweigh us as humans by a significant margin.

Jacobsen: That’s incredible. How large do these ant mounds or eusocial collectives get?

Ramsey: Some of these ant colonies are over a hundred miles wide—just ants. Think about how insane that is. One species, the Argentine ants, has effectively shown it can take over the world. There are more than 16 quintillion individual insects on this planet. That’s mind-blowing. Many of them are ants, bees, and wasps, all thanks to their ability to work together in these eusocial systems.

Jacobsen: Have there been genetic studies on how diverse insects are—not only in their structure but also in their genetics? Are they more diverse than us or other species?

Ramsey: Yes, I’m working on one of those projects now. Have you heard of the Human Genome Project? Francis Collins, who led that project, was one of my heroes growing up. I even thought his book The Language of God was fascinating.

So, it’s no surprise that, as a scientist, I started a similar initiative in my lab called the Honey Bee-nome Project. The goal is to sequence and compare the genome of every honeybee species. We’re currently about 60% of the way through.

We’ve already collected nearly every honeybee species for sequencing, and we plan trips to Borneo, the Philippines, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Malaysia, and Indonesia to gather the remaining species. By studying honeybees’ genetic diversity, we can uncover much about what has made them successful.

We’re looking into what genetic changes underpin their ability to thrive in diverse environments and what genes are most highly expressed under stress or danger. There’s still so much to learn from their genomes about how they adapt and excel.

Seeing how much information we can learn from insect genomes is fascinating. One of the most remarkable things is the incredible flexibility in their genetic makeup. We see similar flexibility in plants. Many plants have doubled their genes multiple times—some even have up to eight copies of each gene.

What does this mean? We’re often in trouble if humans mess up one of our gene copies. We typically get one copy from our mother and one from our father, giving us only two sets of alleles. If something goes wrong, we only have a few backups.

In contrast, plants with eight copies of a gene can afford to “experiment” with six of those copies. They can allow strange mutations to occur. If a mutation results in a gain of function, it can be utilized. If it’s harmful, it doesn’t matter because there are other intact copies to rely on.

Insects demonstrate similar flexibility in their genomes. Due to their short life cycles, they have more time for evolution and possess unique genetic systems. For example, eusocial insects have a haplodiploid genetic system, which allows them to choose the gender of their offspring. Males have half the genetic code, while females have the full complement. By deciding whether or not to fertilize their eggs, they can control the gender ratio in the colony.

In addition, eusocial insects have fascinating systems of genetic management. For instance, queens can store sperm from multiple males and selectively use sperm from those they deem more beneficial for the next generation while ignoring the rest. These genetic systems allow insects to adapt to and navigate a constantly changing world efficiently.

As we face the dramatic impacts of climate change, we often worry that we’re destroying the planet. But we’re not destroying the world—we’re destroying our capacity to live in it. The insects, however, will be fine. When we’re gone, they’ll carry on, thriving in the conditions we leave behind.

Their incredible genetic flexibility and adaptability remind us of the importance of resilience in the biological world. Comparing insects to mammals reveals that many traits insects possess have worked phenomenally for them. This is a humbling realization, as we often consider ourselves the dominant and most important species.

Jacobsen: How did you get interested in “Terrestrials”?

Ramsey: I got involved with Terrestrials after doing an episode with them. I’ve been obsessed with NPR for a long time and have participated in several NPR shows and podcasts. One of those was Shortwave. After I did an episode with them about murder hornets during the pandemic, Maddy Sophia, the host of Shortwave, spoke to others at NPR about my approach to science communication.

She recommended me to Lulu Miller (co-host of WNYC’s Radiolab), leading to my first Terrestrials episode. Initially, the episode wasn’t supposed to be about roach milk. Still, when I mentioned that roaches could produce milk, Lulu was fascinated. It completely took over the episode and shifted its focus.

After that, they asked me to become their official entomology correspondent. Now, I’ll contribute interesting insect-related stories and even some insect-related music every season of Terrestrials. My love for music aligns well with the show, which integrates music into its episodes. It’s been a perfect fit—a little match made in heaven.

Jacobsen: What is the coordination and collaboration process with the “Terrestrials” team? They rely on your expertise in insects, and you rely on them for musical production and storytelling. How do you ensure the key bits of information—like the details about roach milk—are communicated effectively?

Ramsey: For me, the process is a reflective one. Empathy is incredibly important to me as a scientist—the ability to put myself in another person’s place and think about how they experience the world. When I think about communicating science, I reflect on all the science communication I’ve encountered that was boring or missed the mark. Sometimes, even when the subject was fascinating or important, the delivery failed to engage me because they didn’t highlight the parts that could capture my attention.

I always ask myself: What would be most engaging if I were in this person’s shoes? How do I ensure that the most compelling information is at the forefront of our conversation?

When I discussed the ability of insects to care for their offspring, I thought, “What’s the most fascinating fact I can share?”I landed on the fact that some insects can produce milk—not just producing it, but excelling at it. Insect milk is over five times more nutritively dense than the most complex mammalian milk. That’s bound to surprise people, especially since this milk comes from roaches, an insect most people aren’t thrilled to learn about.

Sharing a positive fact about roaches—an insect with such a lowly reputation—creates a memorable moment. I anticipated people would react with, “Ew, how do you get milk from a roach? Do roaches have nipples?” which is exactly what I was asked. I used that as a springboard to compare roach milk to almond, macadamia, and soy milk. I pointed out that you can’t exactly milk an almond, but we still call it milk. So, I encouraged people to open their minds.

Interestingly, roach milk is far closer to traditional milk than plant-based alternatives because it’s produced by the organism to nourish its offspring. It’s a white, viscous fluid specifically designed to feed roach babies. That kind of detail grabs attention—people can’t help but stop and listen.

Since that episode aired, several friends, colleagues, and even strangers on social media have told me they stumbled across it by chance. They were flipping through channels, heard about roach milk, and stopped. They told me it was one of the most interesting, unexpected things they had heard.

Those moments remind me that my instincts for engaging people are usually spot on. While human beings are all unique, certain things consistently capture attention. If you start with something surprising or unexpected, you can always hold someone’s focus.

From there, it’s essential to draw people into a narrative. Storytelling is one of the most effective tools for communication because people remember stories far better than isolated facts. It’s why, when someone asks you, “How was your day?”you can easily recall events in sequence: This happened, then this, then this. Evolutionarily, we’re wired to process the world through stories.

Embedding the information I want to convey within a narrative makes it more engaging, interesting, and memorable.

Jacobsen: If you were to analyze human beings and insects, what makes an insect an insect? And what differentiates humans from other primates?

Ramsey: Good question. Several key traits define insects. From a scientific perspective, it starts with their number of legs and the location of their skeleton. Insects have six legs, which makes them unique as hexapods in the animal kingdom.

They move using something called the “alternating tripod” system. Three legs are always on the ground, giving them incredible stability while in motion. We, as humans, don’t have that. Instead, we use a pendulum-like motion when walking, swinging one leg at a time. This means we technically fall during part of each stride, which is why humans can trip and fall. Insects, however, don’t trip—they’ve figured that out, and I’m proud of them!

Another key feature is their exoskeleton, which acts as a suit of armour protecting their entire body. In contrast, humans protect critical organs like the brain and heart with an internal skeleton—our skull and rib cage. Insects don’t do this piecemeal; they protect their whole body with their exoskeleton.

This combination of traits—the exoskeleton, six legs, and sometimes wings—has made insects the most successful organisms on the planet in terms of diversity and adaptability. Their body plan is unparalleled in its effectiveness.

Jacobsen: What are you most looking forward to for “Terrestrials” in 2025?

Ramsey: For 2025, I’m excited to tell another compelling story about “Terrestrials.” We’ve already talked about roach milk and explored the Honey Bee-nome Project, including the search for a rare honeybee species in the Sundarbans of Bangladesh.

I’ve challenged listeners to rethink their assumptions about roaches and honeybees. Instead of seeing them as simple or singular creatures, I’ve highlighted the incredible diversity within these groups.

For the next season, I want to take another topic that people assume they know everything about and show them how much more there is to learn. Whether it’s about a familiar insect or an entirely new one, I want to scratch beneath the surface and reveal the depth and complexity of the insect world.

Jacobsen: Dr. Sammy, thank you so much for your time today. I appreciate it.

Ramsey: Of course! I’m glad to be here. Thanks so much, Scott.

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