Anthony Cruz Pantojas, MATS, MALS, BCC on Global Humanist Reflections

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): The Good Men Project

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2024/10/22

Anthony Cruz Pantojas, MATS, MALS, BCC (they/them), is the Humanist Chaplain and Coordinator of Africana Spirituality at Tufts University. Pantojas was the delegate for Atheists United for the Humanists International 2024 General Assembly in Singapore.

Jacobsen: So, Anthony, what was your experience in Singapore at the General Assembly for Humanists International?

Pantojas: I’ve been reflecting on my experience. It was the first time I took an extensive international trip. It was “a shift in my center.” As I headed to Singapore, I reflected on how we define the center of our worlds.

Of course, on a 22-hour-plus flight, I thought about where I was headed, who I would meet, and the purpose of going. It exceeded my expectations. I arrived and left with a deeper sense of humility, awe, and gratitude for the opportunity to go.

Jacobsen: Did you have to apply to get the chance to go, or were you just told, “You’re going,” and suddenly found yourself on a 22-hour flight to Singapore?

Pantojas: It was a combination of different factors. It began as a conversation about my desire to attend, and having worked with Evan Clark, the Executive Director of Atheists United, at a youth conference a few months prior, everything aligned. I received support from Humanists International through a travel grant and financial support from other peers, which made it possible for me to attend.

Jacobsen: When you finally landed in Singapore, did you go straight to the hotel and conference, or did you take some detours, like trying out local food or getting a souvenir?

Pantojas: It was an unplanned detour. I happened to sit right behind one Debbie Goddard, one of the Humanists International board members who also is a staff member from American Atheists. I connected with her and then met with other peers from the US—again, unplanned. We took public transportation together, which was an amazing experience, going directly from the airport to our hotel and sharing a meal. That was a highlight of the trip. The spontaneous interactions created a palpable sense of hospitality and welcome. So, yeah, that was the start of my experience.

Jacobsen: What was it like meeting humanists from different regions of the world? This is often a great wake-up call that helps people realize various concerns while noticing the same core value systems.

Pantojas: I wouldn’t use the term “wake-up call” because I hail from the Caribbean, specifically Puerto Rico, one of the oldest colonies of the United States. I’ve always lived in this experience of being a US citizen while being perceived and understood as outside the North American Imaginary. I’ve always had a pluralizing experience in life, which extends to my practice of humanism.

I’ve always had a sensibility towards broadening the notion of the “center” and understanding humanism beyond the Western conceptions of historical humanism. What I needed, and what I was seeking, was exactly what you’re asking—how do we begin to listen and become proximate to peers and colleagues navigating their sense of identity and belonging? How do they strategize and live through a secular perspective, particularly where they might put their lives on the line for it? To another extent, this is more of a philosophical stance.

Of course, you identify as a humanist, atheist, or whatever term resonates with you. To other understandings, it’s an amalgamation of philosophy, identity, culture, and various concepts of a secular humanist, atheist, or non-theist life. So, again, it was both a microcosm and a global experience at the same time. 

Jacobsen: What are some of the more personally noteworthy presentations or workshops you could attend at the conference?

Pantojas: More than just the presentations, it was the opportunity to participate in the tours I signed up for. Not to my credit, but more to my obliviousness, I met people from the Humanist Society (Singapore) without knowing they were staff or in leadership positions. Just meeting them as members of the tour was amazing to me. I emphasize relationality, one of the main frameworks I’m constantly trying to embody, practice, and center in my work and life.

The Humanist Society (Singapore) curated various tours from various organizations. They were ushering us into a world that isn’t my own and listening to how they frame their histories. They live in a relatively young society, yet the design, intentionality, and work that went into building what they have is impressive. That speaks to human creativity and capacity—what can be achieved in what some might call a modern world.

That leads me to the Humanist Society (Singapore) itself. We were able to come in and see the work they’ve done and are still doing, especially in collaboration with Humanists International, to put together this international conference. I’m still reflecting on and cherishing that in my work here and in conversations with peers.

Jacobsen: Were there particular people you met that you clicked with?

Pantojas: I connected with the president of the Humanist Society (Singapore), Norhaiyah Mahmood, without knowing she was the president at first. Her warmth, hospitality, and how she supported one of the tours in such a non-imposing way stood out to me. I talked with her and later found out she was the president. I was like, “Oh, wow!” It didn’t change anything, but the fact that she modeled a humanist stance that made others feel seen, welcomed, and accompanied was amazing.

I also connected with many other people—spoke, bantered, and strategized with them. I remember connecting with folks from Asia, Africa, and Europe. It was great to chat with them while walking or commuting to different events, and seeing the diverse work they are doing within their contexts was inspiring.

Jacobsen: When it came to what you hoped to get or take away from the conference and General Assembly, what were some of the bigger takeaways? And what were some of the smaller, more nuanced things you wouldn’t necessarily have expected when you first went?

Pantojas: Yes, the more nuanced takeaway is the power of positionality and how it plays out in a space that connects to voting power—in this context, the General Assembly specifically. How does a person representing an organization (whether a full member, affiliate, or otherwise) use their vote, voice, and perspective in a space that then shifts into global humanist and secular policy? I’ve been exposed to and understand this since I serve on humanist and non-humanist boards and organizations. I see the value of shifting or distributing power as board members, staff, and others participate in decision-making. But being in this global space for the first time and seeing how even one vote makes a difference was a mind-shifting experience.

That’s a common experience when you realize it’s not just symbolic democratic action. People take their time and use their votes carefully, raising their cards depending on how many votes they have. It’s a good experience.

Jacobsen: Were any policies, declarations, or new board members that stood out to you during the voting or presentations? Is anything particularly noteworthy?

Pantojas: What stood out for me was how we utilize our experiences, institutional power, and capacity to vote to center other communities that might not be present in the space—and the complexity of what that means. We want more diverse representation, yet sometimes, the work doesn’t fully benefit those not physically present in the space. One of my takeaways is the careful consideration of those voices that are missing.

Where am I, relative to the themes, topics, or changes being discussed? How do I respond, even if I am not directly affected because it’s not my experience? Are we making decisions that perpetuate structural violence? I summed this up in a conversation with a colleague during a recent presentation, reflecting on my positionality—hailing from the Global South but being positioned in the Global North.

How do we navigate those multiple worlds? It’s not about leaving behind or saying, “I’m no longer connected.” In a globalized world, we don’t need to be physically present in a place to feel the power and repercussions that democratic processes have within our global communities. It is about interdependence.

Jacobsen: Were there any conversations about the influence of communications technologies, like the Internet, on organizing activism and community for international humanists?

Pantojas: Yes, on a smaller scale. Using WhatsApp, for example, speaks to people’s preferences. It was interesting to see who already had the app downloaded and who advocated for other apps or media based on what they were used to. For some, this was how they communicated daily—how they connected—especially when it’s not safe to be publicly visible or hold a sign saying, “Hey, I’m a humanist.”

For example, the WhatsApp group had different groups, settings, and formats that were right to hold the global experience and contextualize it to other folks’ different expressions, needs, and desires. Of course, all of them were open. It was amazing to see how we were not just using the material, the physical world, by moving through it but also integrating the digital world, which is so much a part of us. That was something I deeply appreciated because, throughout my time there, it was one of the primary ways to communicate. And I thought it was just amazing to be able to do that. 

Jacobsen: What are some integrations of a theme or style of presentation that you saw in Singapore that could be carried forward into the next General Assembly?

Pantojas: Yes, one of the reflections I held onto was how much I showed up for all these different things, or maybe if I missed something—like a dinner—because, of course, I was exhausted that first time. I wanted to hear more about the Singapore Humanist Society. Not in an incredibly formal way, but more like: What are you doing? What have you done? What has worked? What hasn’t worked? Not necessarily to compare and contrast but to hear about their organizational processes.

During the pandemic, I had the opportunity to attend one of their Zoom conferences specifically for Asia, and I joined. That’s how I continued the work of listening and being in proximity and solidarity with other humanist organizations, communities, and practitioners. I missed that and wanted more of it.

Regarding how this relates to the next General Assembly, General Assemblies should be contextual to the realities of the community hosting it. I wouldn’t translate things directly from one context to another. However, I hope it becomes more open regarding visas and creates opportunities for people to attend. Access is crucial to the human experience in general. The way we’re trying to model that we are a global community invested in democratic processes, connected to radical listening, and genuinely hearing what the members desire, need, and want—it’s important to create opportunities for the most people to participate in an international gathering like this.

Jacobsen: Do you have a favourite food you tried there?

Pantojas: I had duck several years ago when I was living in Manhattan, New York, and got to taste it just a week or two before I left New York, and I never had it again. After one of the tours, which was led by a Chinese woman local to Singapore, she recommended an authentic spot to eat. I had the opportunity to have a meal there with another participant from the international conference. I had duck with rice and Thai tea.

It was such an amazing experience because it was so local. It was like an everyday, ordinary place to have a meal. It wasn’t a flashy, high-end place. It was just, “Hey, everyone’s having a meal here,” and that was amazing—to have the same food that everyday people enjoy was incredible.

Jacobsen: How long did it take to get over the jet lag when you returned from that 22-hour flight?

Pantojas: I was very surprised by how well my body adapted. Whether it was the adrenaline, excitement, or a combination of everything, I adapted quickly. I noticed that, at least on the Singapore side, the nights felt long. But other than that, I was able to do everything. When I returned from my trip, I hosted an open house for my work. So, as we say, I had to hit the ground running.

Jacobsen: Are there any parts I missed? Do you feel comfortable that I’ve covered everything?

Pantojas: Yes, we’ve covered most of it. Unless you want to bring up something or something you’re curious about. Being the only Puerto Rican in that space was surprising and unsurprising. It wasn’t a new feeling, but it still held both surprise and familiarity. In the American context, it’s not unusual to feel like the “other” as a Puerto Rican, so it’s a kind of bland surprise.

Jacobsen: Right. In a place like Singapore, though, you’re removed from that negative historical context that might exist in the U.S. for Puerto Ricans. It’s a different kind of detachment from that history. In Singapore, or even in a broader South or Southeast Asian context, the experience is different because you don’t carry the same baggage of American colonialism or marginalization. You meet people and access services, but it detaches from that historical context. Psychologically, it feels different in terms of being the “other.”

That ties back to what you mentioned earlier about shifting the center and the concept of positionality. When does one hold spatial, cultural power, access, or even domination in certain spaces?

Pantojas: It’s about understanding when and where we hold power and how it plays out in different contexts. How does that shift and change depending on your context? How do you navigate those processes? It was also fascinating to be in Singapore and connect with people from Latin America and South America in that space.

I had to fly 20-plus hours to physically connect with people from other parts of the world, specifically from my immediate area of cultural proximity. That was enriching personally, but also in terms of the invitation I took away from it. How are we continually creating everyday moments of encounter and programming to strengthen and expand our relationships—not just for the sake of the relationships but also for modeling and building a global community?

At least for me, it’s centered on relationships. It’s not just about attending a conference or doing delegate work. It’s about how we think about the character of our relationships. One example of connecting the digital and the physical is that I’ve been using some of the interbelief work published by the Humanist Society of Singapore for several years. They do incredible work navigating interreligious engagement, and other aspects of building bridges between communities.

Regarding HAPI, it was incredible to physically meet many of these young humanists, who are doing incredible work, building generational relationships, producing knowledge, and building capacity and leveraging their funds of knowledge in their contexts. They’re also using digital platforms to allow others, like myself, to witness their work. Sitting down, having a meal, and listening to many different stories was a powerful experience. 

Jacobsen: Thank you so much for your time today. Anthony, nice to meet you. 

Pantojas: Thank you so much. Be well.

Jacobsen: You too.

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