Oleksandra Romantsova on Political Events and Public Living

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): The Good Men Project

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2024/09/19

Oleksandra Romantsova works for the Center for Civil Liberties. What are her recent thoughts on public life and politics in Ukraine?

September 19, 2024 by Scott Douglas Jacobsen Leave a Comment

Ms. Oleksandra Romantsova is the Executive Director (2018-present) of the Center for Civil Liberties in Ukraine, which won the Nobel Peace Prize in 2022 under her and others’ leadership in documenting war crimes. This will be a live series on human rights from a leading expert in an active context from Kyiv, Ukraine. Here, we talk about updates from April 17 to May 23.

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: So, there were political prisoners exchanged. Some names reported by the Associated Press include American Paul Whelan, journalist Evan Gershkovich, and Vladimir Kara-Murza, a dissident. When was the last time a political prisoner exchange like this occurred?

Oleksandra Romantsova: Most prisoners are politicians like Ilya Yashin or Vladimir Kara-Murza. For your understanding, Kara-Murza was poisoned twice, in 2015 and 2017, before he was sent to jail. He has criticized Putin from the beginning, long before it became mainstream. Among these prisoners are human rights defenders, journalists, and even an artist who started an anti-war campaign in her unique way. She changed price tags in the supermarket to include questions about the war.

These people have been sentenced to years in prison because they were accused of betraying the Russian Federation or criticizing the army. One of them is Oleg Orlov, a human rights defender. He was our partner in 2014 when we both conducted a field mission to document war crimes in Donbas until I lost access. We did this together when Ukrainian observers were cut off from that territory. Only Russian human rights defenders could collect information and bring it to us until 2016.

After that, access was completely denied to anyone. So, what this means is that Putin wants a specific individual who was arrested in Berlin—Vadim Krasikov, who assassinated a Chechen dissident. Krasikov is the main figure Putin wants in exchange, even though the USA hasn’t handed over anyone from their jails. Instead, they have exchanged hackers and spies who cooperated with Slovenia and Germany. Germany was the most difficult because they did not want to release Krasikov, who had publicly killed someone in broad daylight without any cover-up, making it clear it was an execution.

In exchange, Putin wants Krasikov and seven others so that he will give up twice as many people. All of these individuals have criticized Putin, and they will not only be victims but also witnesses to all the crimes. For Ukraine, this is positive news, but it doesn’t significantly change the situation regarding civilian detainees, war prisoners, or political prisoners from Ukraine who are currently held in Russian Federation jails. So, while it’s good news, it doesn’t change the overall situation for Ukraine. It is also noteworthy that Putin is upset because he had to release people he wanted to be silenced forever.

Jacobsen: The arrival of the F-16s to help Ukraine is significant because they are American-made. This is a major positive development for the Ukrainian side regarding air superiority. 

Romantsova: Over the last three nights, the Russians have been trying to target infrastructure for these airplanes because it is about receiving them and the necessary infrastructure to house and maintain them. Where will we keep them? Where will we maintain them? Some of our pilots have taken special courses on how to use them. Interestingly, this marks an entirely new phase; it was less widely reported than other news. The call for F-16s was loud and constant, but we’ve finally received them.

This could have happened earlier; it is typically Ukrainian to persistently pursue something. However, it will greatlysupport our air defence system, particularly on the frontline. On the frontline, we call the bombs dropped by military airplanes “cops,” and right now, they are the biggest threat and cause of casualties for those on the frontline. So that’s important, and yes, we are glad. 

Jacobsen: There has been further commentary from the Foreign Minister of Ukraine about the importance of having China help with talks or finding common ground to end the war. Former President Trump has been claiming that he could end the Russia-Ukraine war in one day. The Russian UN ambassador says he cannot. However, at the same time, people might be surprised to learn that people are still living their lives in Ukraine. They are used to war at this point. The largest music festival returned despite the ongoing conflict. So, people continue to live their lives. It is an admirable cultural quality. What else?

Oleksandra: So, you mentioned that there is only a little news, but we do have this news that the Russians bombed and destroyed one of the buildings of a children’s hospital and a social center. Now, we are collecting money for the first step of rebuilding it. The old historical buildings will not try to rebuild; instead, they’ll build something that can serve the necessary functions.

Jacobsen: These events are periodic, as you will find in the news cycle. For instance, when Remus and I went to Ukraine, they launched their largest drone strike of the war during that period. I believe there were over 100 drones and missiles when we arrived in Odessa. Then, they had the largest snowstorm, a once-in-a-century snowstorm from Moscow. Trains and buses were shut down, and people got someone with a van to help them reach their destination. Russia has launched its largest barrage of drones in the last seven months, with 89 Shahed drones. The Ukrainian Olympic Chief celebrates Russia’s limited presence at the Paris Olympics. Do you have any cultural comments, specifically the limited presence at the Olympics?

Romantsova: Exactly. I hope Belarus and Russia will never have any team in the Olympics because it’s still strange for me. Russia uses sports and athletes to demonstrate the regime’s development and achievements.

These sportsmen fully support the war. They are part of the public campaign to support the war from the Russian side. So, that’s why I’m exactly against it. Is it fair that some sportsmen who don’t have a country can go to the Olympics? Yes, it is.

But you can check it. You can look at the specific athletes who have the registration. Look at their official page; they have no personal photographs, only official positions spread through the media. I’m terrified that the Olympic Committee doesn’t even want to consider it. These people support the aggression against Ukraine, and yet they’re welcome to the Olympic Games. Yes, there are fewer participants than from North Korea, but still. 

Jacobsen: A Turkish corvette was delivered to Ukraine to help, and there was something more in your expertise. There was an investigation into the deaths of 50 Ukrainian POWs in a barrack two years ago. Do you have any insights for readers about that?

Romantsova: Yes, we do. Russia has taken war prisoners and civilians, and now, after two and a half years, they’ve started to accuse these people and bring them to court. Not all, but it’s becoming more common. It’s illegal because international humanitarian law states that war prisoners cannot be judged for doing their job as soldiers.

So, from one side, it’s legal. Conversely, these cases are completely falsified, creating false accusations. One example is Maksym Butkevych, a human rights defender.

In March 2022, he decided to stop his human rights work and join the army on the front line. That happened in March 2022. He first went to the training base and then to the front line. They fabricated a case against him, accusing him of shooting at civilians in a city in eastern Ukraine, even though he wasn’t on the front line at the time. He was at the training center when the alleged incident occurred.

So, they don’t even care about that. He received a 15-year sentence or something similar based on a falsified case. It’s occupied Luhansk, where this court or trial hearing surrounding the war prisoners is happening. It’s a mockery of justice.  We already have 161 bodies returned in April this year, prisoners of war and illegally imprisoned civilians who died in the prisons of the Russian Federation

Jacobsen: The last time we talked, we discussed Shoigu’s potential replacement, which is now in. It’s a small change; someone was fired, and someone replaced them.  So, when we speak about releasing people, we speak about such situations. I see. He died. 

Romantsova: It’s common. You can find many examples of people being taken to prison. It’s important to understand that prisoner support is a special status given by International Humanitarian Law for protection. Russia’s declaration explicitly gives this status. They talk about their prisoner support.

After that, they don’t feed them, don’t provide medical support, don’t allow them to be in touch with their family, and they even start trial hearings around them. They completely violate the purpose of the status of war prisoners. So, it looks like this.

The cause of death is unknown. The conditions in these prisons are dire. If you’re 55 years old, as Alexander was, you’re not going to be resilient to food deprivation, water deprivation, and other hardships. The body is less resilient at that age.

Jacobsen: What are the human rights implications of Macron giving the green light for Ukraine to strike targets inside Russia with Western weapons? 

Romantsova: It’s interesting—Macron doesn’t give us weapons but permits us. Thank you. So, it’s interesting. The information we have from the USA is significant because the USA provided permission. First of all, they discussed Crimea, emphasizing that Crimea is Ukraine. So, in Crimea, they can target anywhere.

Second, we have this situation where, before, the USA’s legislation regarding support and weapons excluded specific provisions. They excluded the possibility of using American weapons or missiles in connection with the Azov Regiment. This was a problem because Azov is a significant part of Ukraine’s military structure. However, Congress voted and changed it.

We think that’s why Azov had a small conflict here in Ukraine with one former deputy, not ex-PM, but a prominent member named Farion. I will find it. She was killed, and they tried to show that Azov did it.

She had criticized them, but it’s ridiculous in this situation. It brings us back to where we were before.

Jacobsen: So, regarding the living conditions now, what is the general morale of the people within Kyiv?

Romantsova: Now we have enough light. Before that, we had temperatures of 40 degrees Celsius. We use the metric system here. We didn’t have lights or electricity then, so you couldn’t turn on the air conditioning. Imagine, plus 40 degrees, even at night—you can’t relax because it’s so hot. But now, we’ve repaired part of our nuclear power station and seen in the last three days that we haven’t had a blackout. It’s so strange, and now you can use the air conditioner.

The temperature is coming down, so it’s becoming easier. Thinking about how your happiness and comfort improve as conditions become easier is interesting. So now, it’s starting to be easier here.

Jacobsen: I recall you mentioning no light during one of our calls. It was nighttime and pitch black while we were conducting the interview. This highlights the different contexts. What about the price of goods and services? How are people managing day-to-day despite the war?

Romantsova: It’s a question of whether you have light at all. For example, our office has a system that provides light even when the general power is cut off. But it’s still a problem for productivity. Here in Ukraine, we have an economy based on various types of production—food, technology, and more.

Production needs electricity all the time. Blackouts severely damage the economy. People need to find out if they can produce or trade anything. It’s a huge challenge because, in Ukraine, we have many resources to generate electricity, and we usually sell it. Our economy never had this problem of not having light or electricity before.

But now, all of this—the main goal of Putin’s decision to destroy electricity infrastructure—was to ruin our economy. People, for example, might leave or something. But until now, I don’t feel it’s that bad. We all understand that winter will be problematic because, right now, dealing with cooling is not as big of a problem. But heating will be crucial because it gets very cold here in the winter, and you cannot heat homes without a stable energy supply.

Or, in another way, people are moving from cities to villages where they can use fireplaces and other methods like this. So, it’s a huge dilemma for the future. It’s one of the consequences of the war that might become critical at some point. 

Further Internal Resources (Chronological, yyyy/mm/dd):

Humanist

Humanists International, Russian Federation, Ukraine, and the United Nations (2024/01/08)

Personal

The Long Happenstance of Iceland and Copenhagen (2023/12/09)

Violence’s Imaginarium: Informal Follow-Up to ‘War Is Hell’ (2024/07/11)

Romanian

Remus Cernea on Independent War Correspondence in Ukraine (2023/08/25)

Zaporizhzhia Field Interview With Remus Cernea (2024/02/21)

War and Destruction With Remus Cernea (2024/02/22)

Remus Cornea on Ukraine in Early 2024 (2024/04/29)

Remus Cernea on Perpetual War and Perpetual Peace (2024/06/28)

Ukrainian

Ms. Oleksandra Romantsova on Ukraine and Putin (2023/09/01)

Oleksandra Romantsova on Prigozhin and Amnesty International (2023/12/03)

Dr. Roman Nekoliak on International Human Rights and Ukraine (2023/12/23)

Sorina Kiev: Being a Restauranteur During Russo-Ukrainian War (2024/01/27)

World Wars, Human Rights & Humanitarian Law w/ Roman Nekoliak (2024/03/07)

Oleksandra Romantsova: Financing Regional Defense in War (2024/03/11)

Russo-Ukrainian War Updates, February to April: O. Romantsova (2024/05/13)

Dr. Kateryna Busol on Dehumanization in Russo-Ukrainian War (2024/06/20)

Oleksandra Romantsova on April to May in Ukraine (2024/06/24)

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In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. ©Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use or duplication of material without express permission from Scott Douglas Jacobsen strictly prohibited, excerpts and links must use full credit to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with direction to the original content.