Dr. Nasser Yousefi and Baran Yousefi on Humanist Curricula

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): The Good Men Project

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2024/08/27

The Peace School is new in Canada, founded and accredited by the Ontario Ministry of Education in 2023. Currently, the school has five children with a capacity for 120 and is well-financed and supported by the parents whose children attend. The school’s pedagogy has attracted the attention and support of UNICEF, UNESCO, and UNHCR, which strongly encouraged Dr. Nasser Yousefi, the Principal of The Peace School, to share his pedagogy and learning environment with other countries. Canada was Dr. Yousefi’s first choice for the next Peace School. Dr. Yousefi began his career as a child psychologist, studying in Sweden and earning a Master’s in Education in Childhood Growth and Development. In his exploration of the best pedagogy and learning environment for children, Dr. Yousefi completed a PhD in Educational Approaches at Madonna University in Italy and a PhD in Educational Psychology at Northwest University in the USA. This training combined humanistic and cognitive approaches to education. For many years, Dr. Yousefi was an educational consultant for UNICEF. He has conducted educational and research activities for various groups of children, including immigrant children, minorities, street children, and children with special needs. Dr. Yousefi was the Principal of the Peace (Participatory) School in Tehran, Iran, from 2005 to 2023, graduating 500 students from kindergarten to high school, with graduates accepted at universities in Europe, America, and Canada. Dr. Yousefi is passionate about creating the best future for children and is dedicated to creating safe and nurturing learning environments based on holistic principles.

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: How do you get funding for these educational efforts in the Islamic Republic of Iran? 

Dr. Nasser Yousefi and Baran Yousefi: So, all are provided by the tuition. We didn’t have any extra funding or financial support. The school was supervised by an NGO in Iran. The school was a project of this NGO. The NGO provided all the educational programming and everything else. Nothing came from outside the school; it was all within the NGO and the school system.

Sometimes, we held events to provide fun activities, like concerts or art exhibitions, and all the funds gathered from these events were used exclusively for the school. Most of the support and help we received came from volunteers. Many of our operations, educational programs, research, and even teacher training were handled by volunteers. We needed to pay only for basic things, like the rent for the building and our full-time teachers.

Everything we paid for was solely for the students. Aside from the building and salaries, everything else was handled by volunteers. Research, planning, and everything else were done voluntarily. The parents whose children were enrolled in the school also helped. We wanted the parents to be part of the whole system and to participate. When they helped and supported the school, it became important to them. Sometimes, we would ask if they had a party room in their building for events or meetings, if they could help with transportation or field trips, or volunteered for library operations. Anything that could reduce our expenses. The whole project was so interesting to them that they wanted to be involved.

They were so excited about the whole project and the school concept that they didn’t wait for us to ask for help; they did it themselves. One of the school’s principles was that we believed the whole community was our school. We could use community resources as learning opportunities for our students rather than building or creating new opportunities. We always used available resources provided by families, whether they worked in a company, factory, vet clinic, or lab.

Those opportunities were the best for our students to learn something new. It also decreased our expenses and created more learning opportunities. It helped us create a culture of utilizing available community resources for children. Instead of building something ourselves, we used what we already had. This model could be used in any city, not just the capital or larger cities. It could work in any city based on available resources and people. Looking at it broadly, there are many opportunities for schools to use for their students. It doesn’t mean we must create them; they are already available.

This approach also allowed us to have multiple field trips and use community resources. All the libraries in the city were our schools. All the museums were our school. Every company, factory, and store became part of our learning environment. We viewed the entire city as a learning opportunity. It meant that everyone in society was a teacher for us. The museum guide, or guides, yes. They would have been the best teachers, especially for the Museum of History. Or people who worked at the laboratory.

They were the best teachers for biology. We were open to other people becoming our teachers. We were fearless of letting more people join our team and welcomed them as much as possible. Everyone in Tehran, where we were based, was very welcoming to our students and the school. We wanted to hear from them because we respected their talents, abilities, and everything. We wanted them to be the experts in some situations, and they did everything they could for us. That’s why we never encountered any closed doors from the people.

We did face situations where the government closed doors for us, but people were very open and welcoming.

Jacobsen: A few things come to mind. This will be the shortest of the three I have in mind. When people own a school or the educational system and participate that way, did they adopt a motto or slogan within the school?

Yousefi: Yes, the founders had a motto. The school slogan was “Make the world a better place.” The teachers never expected anything specific from the students but always asked them to improve the world for themselves and others, regardless of their jobs or careers.

Yes, it doesn’t matter what job or career you follow; you can improve the world. You are not allowed to hurt anyone or make someone else suffer. You need to love others and show empathy and compassion. We tried to teach love and empathy. As teachers and adults, we don’t have much to teach students, but we can spread love to them.

Regarding the concerts and other fundraising efforts, we raised funds to reduce operating costs and lower parents’ fees. These concerts were private and not publicly announced. Generally, anyone is allowed to hold a concert, but for larger public events, they need a permit from the government. For us, it was different. Women, for example, are not allowed to perform publicly. Our fundraising concerts were all private and spread by word of mouth.

This touches on the third question, which might require a longer response. We did face some pressure and pushback from the government. The main issue was that they didn’t recognize us as a school. This meant we couldn’t give any diplomas or certificates to our students. So that was one of the issues, yes. The government wants every school to follow its curriculum and textbooks, and the same textbooks are used across the country. It doesn’t matter where the school is; every student has to read the same textbook.

That was one of the main issues and pushbacks. One of our biggest challenges was that the government only believed in one system and approach. They didn’t even allow an alternative approach to be considered. However, we wanted to continue promoting different and multiple approaches and methods worldwide, and we believed we had to at least look at them. We wanted to promote and support diversity rather than singularity, but the government needed help.

They wanted their system and approach to be seen and recognized. It doesn’t matter where you live in Iran, whether in the north, south, east, or west; everyone has to read the same textbook. It doesn’t consider their cultural, religious, or political backgrounds. Everyone has to read the same textbook and take the same exams. However, we must consider the child’s cultural background, history, language, stories, and even religion in their educational program. Iran has a diversity of religions and languages, and we can’t ignore this diversity. You can speak up to one language when there are various languages. In the humanistic approach, we must consider this diversity and these differences. We wanted to do this, and we tried to do it. Of course, we still try to do it, but the government doesn’t support it.

Jacobsen: So, no political violence was enacted against any of you, the students, the teachers, or the families. Is that correct?

Yousefi: Violence in the sense that we might usually imagine? No, because we were conducting a research project. The development of this alternative method over twenty years was a massive research project. We always told government organizations that we were implementing a research project to expand educational diversity. We always spoke as a group of specialists. However, I believe that the fact we were never officially recognized and our students were unable to receive an official diploma is itself a form of violence.

Jacobsen: When you’re in a highly religiously controlled society, and everyone, regardless of background, has to take these examinations and follow the educational curriculum, what is in it? What do people have to learn? Is it anything connected to the real world? Which parts are useful, and which are nonsense that train people to be effective citizens in a theocracy?

Yousefi: The focus of the schools is, after all, the promotion and expansion of religious thought, specifically introducing students to Islamic teachings. However, Iran is a country rich in diverse religions, where followers of different faiths have lived together in peace for centuries. When the official education system ignores this diversity and doesn’t provide opportunities for dialogue among followers of various religions, ethnicities, or minorities, diversity and plurality are ultimately lost. Of course, followers of religions like Christianity, Judaism, Zoroastrianism, and others had their own schools that only enrolled students of their faith. However, there was no interaction between students of different religions within the official education system. 

Jacobsen: As part of the curriculum, are kids taught things that aren’t useful, like prayer and other religious practices, that might be meaningful to the parents but not necessarily effective for dealing with the realities of life when they grow up?

Yousefi: In mainstream schools, there are subjects for religion and prayer. We don’t know exactly how parents feel because we aren’t in contact with parents from mainstream schools, but we hear they aren’t very satisfied with what’s happening. We also hear that sometimes their children practice something at school but something else at home, leading to conflicts.

They only study and read to pass exams. They don’t necessarily believe what they study. This isn’t limited to religious subjects; it includes history, literature, geography, and even science and social sciences. Students memorize the textbooks to pass exams. The textbooks include stories in literature that students have to read, but these are only sometimes the books they choose when they go to the library. We wanted to connect school and personal life, not separate them. It wasn’t easy; being honest with yourself and your education while maintaining balance was hard.

Jacobsen: Does the mainstream educational system make any distinctions between Sunni, Shia, Ahmadi, or Quranist interpretations of Islam, or is it all one version?

Yousefi: No, it only talks about Islam in a general sense. Discussions around Zoroastrianism and other faiths are not included. The government has its version of Islam that it promotes. It could be more realistic and accurate; it’s just something the government developed.

Jacobsen: A friend of mine is a cosmologist at UBCO and Lethbridge. He’s a Quranist Muslim. We’ve been discussing interfaith topics for a long time. He’s big on interfaith dialogues and humanistic interpretations of Islam, which might appeal to secularized individuals. However, this isn’t that. I’m a minor figure doing administrative stuff for them, but the Canadian Quantum Research Center has a decent number of citations. 

Jacobsen: Let’s contrast what was described with the mainstream system’s method and how it doesn’t recognize anything other than a single worldview, and not in an educational sense when I’m thinking about it. They’re taking it as true rather than a secularized world religions class, where they teach what people believe and let you decide for yourself. It’s much different. They’ve pre-decided for you. What’s your humanistic approach to this? 

Yousefi: We consider religion to be part of a child’s background. Many Persian poems have roots in Islam, Zoroastrianism, or even Judaism. So, when you want to learn about Rumi or Hafez, you must also learn about those roots. For example, you can’t understand Hafez’s poems if you don’t know the Torah stories or Rumi’s poems without knowledge of the Quran. The same applies to Eastern countries. If you don’t know the Bible, you can’t fully understand Victor Hugo’s or Charles Dickens’s stories.

Talking about the Bible, Quran, or Torah is necessary to understand literature and poetry. It doesn’t mean we are promoting that religion. Rather, it’s about understanding the culture and history needed to grasp something else. The same goes for science. Some scientific concepts have come from Eastern or Western positions or even how we look at evolution. There are different narratives about evolution rooted in religion. Discussing a scientist or physician doesn’t mean we are endorsing their religious views. We are discussing their ideas and theories. We only focus on religion as a background context. We don’t have a specific subject for religion, but we touch on it to explain the backstory of other topics. If a student is curious about a religion, we open up, considering it a great learning opportunity. But we always respect all religions and those who follow them. We are one of the rare schools with diverse religions, but we never promote any particular one.

We always help students learn more about a religion if they have questions. Some families specifically asked us not to talk about any religion, especially in Iran. However, we could only say yes if a child was interested in learning about Islam or any other religion . We respected their curiosity and taught them about it without promoting it.

In the context of Iran, if you advocate for something other than Islam, there could be negative consequences. But we never wanted to advocate for a specific religion because it would mean we couldn’t respect others. We wanted to allow students from other religions to speak freely and be heard. One year, the students themselves asked for a class on religion. We had a program to introduce each religion without advocating for any. We also explained that some people are atheists and don’t believe in any religion. We focused on diversity, saying, “This is it,” rather than limiting ourselves to one viewpoint.

This approach wasn’t limited to religion. It extended to literature and music as well. Some schools only teach one genre of music or one instrument. We introduced different genres and instruments, even challenging ones. We aimed to discuss the best examples in each genre across subjects like arts and science.

If a school restricts everything to one religion or genre, it restricts diversity. We encouraged students to love their country and respect other countries, lands, and nationalities. We never advocated for nationalism or exclusivity.

Jacobsen: So, that’s good. This last response will be helpful for those in Canada who may have a stereotype of what Iran is like. There’s this ghostly governmental presence that restricts everyone in every way. Can you describe the humanistic model of education, whether about politics, religion or anything else, in a compact way as something like individualistic cosmopolitanism for learning about a wide range of human identities and truths about the world in a semi-autonomous direction?

Yousefi: I am not a representative of the Iranian government, and my educational and research work was never approved by the government. Therefore, I cannot say what the public schools were thinking or what they expected from this education. Whatever it was, I was critical and opposed to the educational system.

Since the humanistic approach’s main objective is respect, it considers every person’s aspect and background. It allows people to talk about who they are today, helping them take the next steps. A humanistic teacher is not an ethics teacher; it’s not someone who judges people. It’s a person who accepts a child in every aspect, in every way possible.

For example, we consider children and see where they stand and what they bring from home, their past, their background, their culture, and everything else. But we don’t judge that child and their background. They will never trust us again if we judge them or share their dreams or thoughts. So, we need to accept them as they are, wherever they are, so we can help them take the next steps toward the future.

A humanistic teacher needs to correct the child immediately. We wait long enough to address their mistakes, issues, or misunderstandings. Sometimes, students come with a racist point of view, and we don’t stop them immediately. We listen and ask them to talk enough so we can understand where they need help. If we start to correct or judge them immediately, they will stop being honest with us and never share their thoughts. So, language, politics, religion, or nationality are not priorities for a humanistic education. What’s important is their characteristics, personalities, emotions, and understanding of the world; we must fully understand them to help them grow and develop. A humanistic teacher is more of a caregiver than a traditional teacher.

It’s someone who takes care of the children. We care about policies that support caring for students and children, whether it’s regulations, concepts, or theories. The world needs caregivers more than traditional teachers—not caregivers in the sense of caring for someone ill but someone who genuinely cares for children’s development and well-being. But that’s where I differ from a behaviourist teacher to a humanistic teacher. 

Jacobsen: Is there a risk in teaching students intellectual and analytical skills without a proportional development of emotional and social skills in students? A healthy development of the sentiments to make the intellectual and analytical skills more rounded.

Yousefi: It’s both the holistic approach and integrated education. Integrated education means we pay attention to the child’s needs immediately. You can’t say that you only focus on their cognitive development without paying attention to their nutrition or malnutrition. You can only focus on social skills by considering society’s rules and regulations. Cognitive psychology and behavioural psychology both caused the issue of segregating these needs. Cognitive psychology focuses only on cognitive needs and doesn’t consider emotional and social needs. 

Behavioural psychology only focuses on individual success and forgets that a child is a complex person with different developmental skills and needs. Paying attention to only one aspect and disregarding the others can be dangerous. It could be creativity, reasoning, or analyzing. We need to work on every need and aspect of a child at the right moment. If we skip paying attention to emotional and social needs, then we might end up with scientists who make bombs, promoting war and destruction.

Who’s making these bombs and weapons of mass destruction? It’s often those specialized individuals who lack emotional and social skills. They never had the opportunity to develop empathy and compassion. Yes, there are doctors and physicians involved in organ trafficking or mutilation who lack empathy. Where did they go to school? They might have attended very controlling and closed schools that forced them to think about war due to their conditions.

The world’s educational system fails to teach people to love each other and empathize; defending any war means going against humanity. Most of the workforce involved in the war, whether in the army, weapons factories, or transportation, attended schools that failed them. Teachers must answer how we taught them and who they became. It’s very sad and makes me emotional.

Jacobsen: Let’s shift topics so you don’t cry. Famously, Professor Noam Chomsky essentially destroyed B.F. Skinner’s behaviourism in an 8-page review article. This brought about the cognitive revolution, and humanistic psychology evolved from it. Rogers and other fundamental humanistic psychologists are dead. How has humanistic psychology and humanistic education evolved since its inception, so the cutting edge in the 2010s/2020s?

Yousefi: This person, Noam Chomsky, wasn’t the first to write against behaviourist education. He was one of the prominent critics. Maslow, Ferrier, Rogers, and Fromm were all critics of the behaviourist approach. People like Yalom and Pinker also criticize it. I am also a serious critic of behaviorism in my country. believe that we cannot easily overlook a system that harms the students’ psychology so much. We must raise our voices against behaviorist education.

Some people start questioning it when you shout negatively. I am  happy to have been among the few to question behaviourist education. It’s good when behaviourist psychologists and educational specialists hear this criticism. Yes, it’s like validation that you’re doing the right thing—not that you intended to, but you were compelled to.

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