Wil Jeudy on Texan American Atheism

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): The Good Men Project

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2024/02/25

Wil Jeudy is the Texas State Director for American Atheists. Here we talk about Houston and Texas and the state of American atheism and secularism there.

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Today, we are here with Wil Jeudy. Regarding Texas, what areas of activism do you have to put out as a fire, if any?

Wil Jeudy: So, I lean progressive. Atheists, nonbelievers, and in Texas, there is a lot of work to be done as far as activism for people. That aligns with my worldview. So, personally, my activism revolves around secular political activism. So, giving secular people a voice in local politics here in Houston also normalizes nonbelief.

Jacobsen: How did you come to progressive politics and atheism as an outlook on the world? 

Jeudy: It was gradual. I grew up a Christian kid until 10th grade. I had daily indoctrination. I believed in all the Christian stuff. Once I left the school, I went to a typical high school, a regular college. I learned about the wider world. Then I got into medical school. It didn’t make sense. I slowly flittered away from Christianity – religion in general. There was no trauma. It didn’t make sense without the daily indoctrination. I flowy flittered away. By my early 40s, I was comfortable saying, “I do not believe in any of these things.” I went through spiritual pantheism; all paths lead to the same place. I explored some other options. In the end, I became comfortable. There is no evidence for any of this. I am okay cutting ties with all of it. That is how I became an atheist. Atheism means you don’t believe in a higher deity. The way I describe it, I am not going to sit here and say, “There is no God,” because the burden of proof is not on me to prove a negative. The way I believe, there is no evidence put in front of me that would make me believe in a higher being, especially the Abrahamic God. 

Jacobsen: I assume you grew up in that area within the American educational system in Texas, particularly Houston. How was it for you? You mentioned that indoctrination was present. However, it wasn’t differentiated whether it was in the home, the school, the community, or the church. 

Jeudy: I grew up in South Texas. Go down until you hit Mexico, then back up 10 miles; that’s where I grew up. My indoctrination was in school. We rarely went to church in the home. It wasn’t a very religious household. It was just in school, a private school. That was the indoctrination where it happened. It was a non-denominational school, reasonably bland. It wasn’t charismatic or anything. 

Jacobsen: Certainly, to paraphrase Richard Dawkins, you should have a basic understanding of some of the texts or some of the core literature of the Bible because a lot of literature, at least Western literature, uses the Bible as a reference point. So, it is helpful to be a literate citizen to know parts of the Bible.

Jeudy: I agree.

Jacobsen: At the same time, I have been doing a series, which may be the first to look at international Indigenous freethought communities. I have done a lot of work interviewing individuals of more immediate African descent. We’re all African. I am taking a more short-term, colloquial definition thrown around a lot in North American parlance. One thing that came up in several interviews, particularly with Mandisa Thomas in a leadership position. If someone is African American in the United States and leaves the church, it can be much more complex than someone who is European American or even an Asian American. It has a lot more connotation within the community. What was the experience for you? You noted that you were part of a community and are an atheist now, so you are not part of that community.

Jeudy: My experience was different than Mandisa’s. I grew up in an area that is 85% Hispanic. I am Afro-Latino. I don’t have that experience. You are an African American. You leave the community. It causes angst and dissonance. That was not my experience. By the time I drifted from religion, I was an adult. I had a career. It didn’t matter what you believed in. The people I knew weren’t a big deal. I was married a long, long time ago. I was divorced a long time ago. I didn’t have children with different beliefs in the household. It was an easy time. That was my experience.

Jacobsen: You mentioned how becoming an atheist was a gradual process. The basic plan of atheism is that it doesn’t necessarily mean anything else other than a denial or a rejection of the concepts of these supernatural interventionist beings. Were there particular moments where there were more significant changes in that process of disbelief?

Jeudy: No, there was no event. I slowly flittered away. I would say the most significant inflection point that was most dramatic was college. I learned about different cultures, religions, and a wider world than what you learn in high school. My skepticism started then in general. Questioning things, questioning things taught as a kid in high school. That was an inflection point. It set up the journey away from religion, which, again, was a gradual one. I stumbled into secular groups in 2016 here in Houston. I wasn’t looking for a community, a nonbelief community. When I stumbled into the Houston Oasis community, I met like-minded people. I was immediately hooked. These are my people. That was another big inflection point. It was okay within here. “I am an atheist. It is fine. It is okay.” By the time I was an Oasis Houston, I was already a nonbeliever. It wasn’t a big deal to me. It didn’t make sense; religion didn’t make sense. 

Jacobsen: What areas of church-state separation are particularly acute concerns in Texas? 

Jeudy: Oh, man! It is all over the place in Texas. This is the perfect example. Church-state separation, the state part of that. The state legislature is oversaturated with Christian nationalists and “conservative” Republicans. They are overrepresented. Therefore, they must pass these laws in Texas over the last six years, probably longer. They get to pass these laws that are dripping with Christian Nationalism, which is another way of saying “Violating separation of church and state.” Some five or six years ago, they had the Ten Commandments Bill. If somebody is a citizen and wants to put up a Ten Commandments sign for a school, then a school must put it up and display it in the school, not can but should. It is imposing this shit on everyone else. Texas is pluralistic and heterogeneous. That screams the violation of church and state. The chaplain bill is legislation that says, “Chaplains can be school counsellors in high schools.”

Jacobsen: What?!

Jeudy: Yes, with no training or special training as a counsellor or certification, if you are a chaplain, you can do it. They passed that law. There is another bill, not about the Ten Commandments. In God We Trust, it was a couple of years ago was one. Texas keeps putting these out as egregious violations of church and state. We need activists to tell the people of Texas. “Hey! This is not good. This is not good because of this.” Do our best to push back against this. 

Jacobsen: This stuff wouldn’t exist without the quiet support of the community. I can give a background. I grew up in Fort Langley by Trinity Western University in British Columbia, Canada. It is the largest private university in Canada. It is Evangelical. I have been to dinners with people who work at this university and prominent students. They will say, “If it is not God’s Law, it is illegitimate.” That thinking implies an overriding secular law, not necessarily god’s law imposed as ten commandment tablets at the courthouse or something, but more trying to edge-wise pass bills in the legislatures that would edge things towards a biblical worldview trying to impose a theocratic system of governance on, as you’re noting, a pluralistic populace. I am aware of that in Canada. But it is not that big or that powerful. It is annoying when you live there. I do not know the experience of living in a state, for you, province/territory me, in which that would be a complex problem. How do you even begin to push back against some of these things other than letting others in the public know, “This is not okay. It is a violation of church and state.”?

Jeudy: Great question; I was introduced to this secular world. I was getting work and getting involved. What I did, I did not have the time or energy for both worlds. So, I mashed them together and formed Secular Houston in December 2021. It has only started. What we do is we send questionnaires out to everyone here locally. The ones who return the questionnaire will decide whether we endorse them in an election. We tell everyone who will listen, “These people, we did the work for you. These people align with the separation of church and state. They respect science and reason.” Do the little extra because these people are worth it; they will advocate for the separation of church and state. With every election, it is more and more robust. We have more of an audience. I consider this very important. These candidates are getting these endorsements. They all of a sudden are like, “Wow, secular people are speaking up about the separation of church and state.” There was never a voice like that in the Houston area. These candidates. Some get into office. They sit in the office. They know there are scholars people there. They are about the separation of church and state. They have church and state separation on their radar. A secular voice is how we are getting more and more of a secular voice in Texas and the Houston area. That has been my response and how I try to advocate for the separation of church and state and push back against the theocracy, as you described. 

This way, elected officials can know we exist. The people who listen to us, who want to get involved. Roe v Wade went away. “I wish there was something I could do!” There is something you can do. I give them options on where to focus the energy, rage, or even love to be efficient and effect change. Now, they know they can do something. It inspires them to bring their friends. It is a multipronged approach, giving them options and trying to push back against Christian Nationalism. 

Jacobsen: Are there particular legislators or groups who tend to be the most vigorous opposition? 

Jeudy: There are a lot of individuals and groups. There has not been a ringing of bells. “Beware of Secular Houston or American Atheists!” I don’t think we are that much of a threat to them. I don’t think we’re that much of a threat to them. We don’t have that much money. They are sitting on a big pile of money. The threat is what we are doing. That is the threat that they put upon us. There are plenty of individual legislators who are Christian nationalists. We try to expose them wherever we can. The problem is that people don’t know why Christian Nationalism is as bad as it is. “There is Christianity and America. What is wrong with that?” We are not alone. We reached out to interfaith groups. They are lobbying as hard or more complicated than we are against Christian Nationalism. They are repulsed by it. They love that we are at the table with them. I love being at the table with them. I am personally inspired by them locally, statewide, and nationally. There are a bunch of interfaith groups pushing back against this. It makes me happy. 

Jacobsen: How big is the American Atheist chapter in Texas?

Jeudy: There is no chapter per se. I am the state director. It is a volunteer position. There are no American Atheist groups or chapters. There are several secular groups. Atheist groups and freethought groups in Texas, I take it upon myself as state director of American Atheists to see if leadership is healthy and to help them in any way I can.

Jacobsen: About the current federal political situation, how is that impacting talks within the secular community within Texas?

Jeudy: I tend to steer clear of federal. It is a dumpster fire. Local, we need to work locally. Look locally; we can effect change here. What I am glad for and am trying to get in with them a little more is that there is a Congressional Freethought Caucus in the US House of Representatives. It was founded and started by, or at least he was the first member, Jared Huffman; he is the only official humanist. He is not religious, per se. He is the only one to say, “I am not Christian. I am not Muslim. I am not Jewish. I am a humanist.” There is a lot of bravery to do that. He started it. So, these are US representatives who sign up for the Freethought Caucus. They say, “It is okay to not be religious. Separation of Church and State is good.” That is the federal level.

Jacobsen: How did you orient around progressive politics connected to atheism? Do you think that is a necessary outcrop or a temperament of political affiliation apart from atheism?

Jeudy: It is separate. My not believing in a deity doesn’t colour what I believe in, as far as politically. I have met conservatives and libertarians. I can only speak for myself. I tend to surround myself with people who think as I do. We are an empathetic bunch. We want the best for as many people as possible. That translates into progressive ideology, as far as I am concerned. 

Jacobsen: Do you find that there are attempts at pushback or undermining you when trying to do honest secular work? Non-secular groups who push back against secular activism will use any means available to them to undermine your efforts and activism in any way.

Jeudy: It hasn’t been that bad. When you start, you think of the worst-case scenario. That wouldn’t get in the way of our objectives. There is a local Houston City Council race. We endorsed this one man. He was in a runoff with another lady. The lady sent a message saying, “Look, an atheist group endorsing this guy!” She tried to use this endorsement against him. He ended up winning. That was the biggest thing. 

Jacobsen: [Laughing] It is this kind of nonsense, right? I know people in the media. I work with many organizations or associations and hope to provide some platform for secular people. Yet, we are all friends. When people try to cancel or defame, they will send the correspondence being sent to them. It’s like, “They’ve been trying this for a while. That ball is pretty worn, don’t worry.” Maybe it is different when you’re on the grounds of activism or state director instead of media or journalism. I suppose we should do the last question. Who would you consider your favourite secular person? What book would you recommend for everyone to read on atheist or church-state separation issues forever?

Jeudy: [Laughing] I have met many super great people. I don’t know much about Hitchens, Dawkins, or those famous atheists. I haven’t looked at a lot of the stuff. My role was more local and then political. I don’t know if I have a favourite. I know Hitchens had a cool line. I will say Hitchens because I know a lot of people in his world. [Laughing]

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Jeudy: I have a favourite book by Andrew Seidel called The Founding Myth. Every point will come at you if you advocate for the separation of church and state. He destroys any argument you hear most efficiently. I love that book.

Jacobsen: Wil, thank you very much for your time today.

Jeudy: My pleasure. Thank you for reaching out.

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