Lynne Denison Foster: Canadian Horse Girl Mom Exemplar

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): The Good Men Project

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2024/03/09

Lynne Denison Foster is the mother of Rebecca Foster, owner of the Bale and Bucket restaurant, and Tiffany Foster, a professional equestrian show jumper ranked the highest in Canada. She was an aviation professional for 48 years, beginning with Pacific Western Airlines in 1969 in the Edmonton Reservation office and moving to Vancouver in 1973. She helped with the implementation of the first computerized reservations systems for a regional air carrier in North America. Since 1974, she has been an instructor and in 2012 was awarded BC Aviation Council’s Lifetime Achievement Award for her contribution to educating the aviation community. At Canadian/Air Canada, she trained CEOS, Pilots, Aircraft Groomers, and worked on training initiatives and programs for aviation safety management system, computerized reservation systems, corporate change, customer services, frontline leadership, human factors, interpersonal skills, management practices, and service quality. She taught at BCIT between 2000 and 2017. Foster was key in the development of the Aviation Operations Diploma Programs. She was Chief Instructor for 7 years. In 2015, she won BCIT’s Teaching Excellence Award. Here we take a comprehensive look at her parenting and parenting philosophy. 

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Today, we are here with…

Lynne Denison Foster: …Lynne Denison Foster…

Jacobsen: …who is the mother of…?

Foster: …Tiffany Foster…

Jacobsen: …and?

Foster: …and Rebecca Foster…

Jacobsen: …who are known for?

Foster: Tiffany is known for being a professional equestrian show jumper. She has been to the Olympics twice and won the Pan-Am gold in 2015 with the Canadian Team. Rebecca owns a restaurant at the horse show, at Thunderbird Show Park in Langley here. She has been offering food service for the last 11 years from her restaurant. Before that, she worked in hospitality with me and prepared food.

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Foster: So, that is what she is known for, her good food.

Jacobsen: As you have shown me with great hospitality in your home, so thank you very much for that.

Foster: Oh, you’re welcome. 

Jacobsen: I enjoyed the apple cider vinegar with honey. It was good. I wanted to start recording some of the things that you were describing [Ed. extensively describing] of the earlier history of your role, self-identified role, as a mother, which was with Tiffany’s child acting or being in film, in commercials, and the building of some life skills that would be important later on, especially given some of your background at teaching adults these business skills, interpersonal skills, at the Airlines and BCIT.

Foster: Right.

Jacobsen: These are more important than a lot of academic skills. As we are noticing in Canadian society and many, many developed societies, women are increasingly becoming the majority of the workforce. They are far more educated. The “soft” skills important for business and general social acumen are much, much more important than muscle, brawn, force, of voice or of body, to get things moving because much of the infrastructure of societies has been built. So, those skills that you were building at that time were, in fact, building character and skills for modern society. To me, this is one interpretation that I’m taking when I hear these stories when they are kids [Ed. Off-tape in the evening, Lynne’s kids.] of building those skills moving into the present, where they are succeeding in restaurants or professional show jumping. I was taking those as principles of parenting with practical examples that you were giving. How do you interpret now, looking back, as a parent? You’re making decisions about the progression of a child and giving some skills that will be helpful down the line.

Foster: First of all, I am very proud of both of my daughters. What I think has been really incredible for them is that they have been able to have careers pursuing their passion. That is a great accomplishment for them. Perhaps, the way they were raised might have had something to do with that. My family’s motto on my father’s side is “Perseverando”. “Perseverando” means “by persevering”. As you already know, both of these girls have worked since they were kids, and Tiffany, as I mentioned before we started the principles, was working from the time she was 7. She has continued to work until she is 39 now. From age 7 to 11, she was a principle in 32 television commercials. When she finished television commercials, she had to work for her horse board and her lessons. Approaching it from that perspective, what I have tried to encourage in them, I have it right here. 

[Shows tea mug]

Jacobsen: “If you want the best the world has to offer, offer the world your best…”

Foster: This was given to me by one of the student pilots when he graduated from the polytechnic post-secondary school, BCIT. That was one of the things that I really wanted to instill in my daughters, is that if you have to work or do something for somebody for whatever reason, then make sure that you do the best that you possibly can with what you’ve got, so that when you leave; they will either want you to come back or will wish you never left. 

Jacobsen: [Laughing] That’s great.

Foster: I did that with my adult students who were coming to BCIT, British Columbia Institute of Technology to study for a career in Aviation. That is what I also told them until I found this quote,which is much more succinct. I posted it in all my classrooms. That is what I thought was important for my children to understand as well. When they were working, they were working for Brent and Laura, your employers. They were young. They were tired and wanted to go home. I said, “No, you stay here and do it right to the best of your ability. Otherwise, you are going to have to do it again”. That was one principle of my parenting style for my children. The other one was… can I tell you a story?

Jacobsen: You can go right ahead.

Foster: When Tiffany was about 10-years-old, I asked her to do something. She chose not to do it. I asked her again. She just was not going to do it and ignored it. I said, “I am asking you to do this. If you don’t, I’m going to have to give you a consequence”. I didn’t believe in depriving my kids by saying, “No, you can’t have riding lessons” or “you can’t go to granny’s tomorrow”. I didn’t think that was an appropriate consequence. She was going to go to her friend’s place for a sleepover. I said, “You will not be able to go to Vanessa’s until you do what I am asking you to do”. She ignored my request. She was too busy.I asked her  a couple of more times. She just didn’t do it. I said, “Okay, Tiffany, you have chosen. You have made a choice. You are not going to Vanessa’s tonight”. She got very upset with me. She was crying and blaming me. “Why? You are so mean! You won’t let me do this”. This kind of stuff. I said, “What do you think would have happened if you had done it? I don’t want you to be a victim”. I had a colleague that she knew. This colleague, every time something happened because of her own actions; she would blame our employers. I said, “Do you want to be a victim like Auntie Izzy?”

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Foster: “Do you really, really want this?” She said, “Yes, I do”. I said, “There is an obstacle, which is the consequence of your action. It is your responsibility. You created that obstacle. But now, you know that I am a reasonable person. If that is so important to you, then why don’t you think about how you can overcome the obstacle and get what you want, which is to go to Vanessa’s. But it is your actions that caused that obstacle in the first place. What do you think you can do? Go away and think about it”. She went away and came back, “Okay, how about I do what you asked me to do?” I said, “No, that is not enough. The obstacle is the consequence because you didn’t do it. Think about it again”. She went back and said, “Okay, I did what you asked me to do. How about I do this and if I…” I said, “That’s not good enough”. 

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Foster: “How about the consequence?” So, she chose her own consequence if she didn’t follow through with what she told me was the solution. I said, “Okay, that makes sense to me, because you decided your consequence. If you don’t do it, then it’s the consequence you have to live with. You understand that?” “I do”. We all make mistakes. We all have poor judgments. She had made a poor judgment. There was a consequence to that. But if it is something that you really want, then you have to find a way to get around it. That is what I believe. I saw it as a teaching moment for her. Again, I am not the one to blame… if I make a threat like a consequence, then I have to follow through. As they got older, I‘ll tell you this story, too. When they were teenagers and doing things that they should not have been doing, or making mistakes…

Jacobsen: …as teenagers do…

Foster: …Yes. So then, I thought. I told them this. “As you get older, I know you want to be more and more independent and be able to be responsible for making your own choices. I think that’s good. Because you need to learn how to make your own choices and live with them. But if you make a bad choice, it’s my responsibility…” – and I laid it on thick.

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Foster: “… as your mother, I want to be a good mother…” 

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Foster: “…I want to be sure that I look after you and guide you. If you do something that you are not supposed to do, then I have to help you with that”.As I did with that situation when she (Tiffany) was 10. “So, I have to take away that responsibility from you, and I have to take it on. Your punishment, or your consequence, is that you are stuck with me. So, it might be 24 hours. It might take 48 hours, depending on the severity of the errors of your ways. But I am telling you right now. If you don’t do what you are supposed to do, then I have to take it on, as your loving mother”. I laid it on thick. [Laughing] 

Jacobsen: That’s pretty vicious.

Foster: I said, “I will call work. I would ask for vacation time because I will be with you. I will be with you when you are sleeping to make sure you make the right choice. I will travel with you to school. I will talk to your principal saying, ‘Rebecca or Tiffany can’t make good decisions. So, I hope you don’t mind that I am in the classroom and at school with them so I can help them.’. You will be stuck with me to help you make your decisions for a certain amount of time.” And…I only had to do it once [Laughing].

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Foster: Rebecca, I never had to do it. Because Rebecca was always watching what Tiffany did and learning from her ‘mistakes’. [Laughing] “Oh my God!” It was just so embarrassing, right? So, again, I don’t remember what it was that required my interception. “Okay, Tiffany, I guess I’ll just have to stick with you”. 

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Foster: At the same time, her friend came over to visit her. I think they were 15 or 16. Something like that. Her friend said, “Tiffany, come outside, I’ve got to tell you something”. I was coming along with Tiffany, because she was stuck with her mom to help make good decisions. “Carry on, don’t mind me, I’m just here to help Tiffany”. We go outside. Her friend says, “Well, uh…” Finally, Tiffany goes, “Okay, mom! I get it! I get it!” And that was it. That was the only time I had to do it. Both girls weren’t stupid and they knew I would do it again if I had to. That is the parenting I did. Tiffany tried to run away from home a couple of times too. [Laughing]

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Foster: I came after her. “We have to talk. Running away is not going to help. Let’s work it out”. Ask me another question, I get sidetracked. Punishing a kid for making mistakes doesn’t work. So, I laid it on kind of thick. “I am your loving mother. I just want to help you make good decisions”. 

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Foster: Another question?

Jacobsen: Yes. So, in the article we found together in the 50th/bicentennial of Show Park magazine, it stated. Rebecca and Tiffany started early. Costs were an issue. What were the first reactions to the costs? How did you take that approach of facing the problem, problem solve, towards those kinds of costs when income may not necessarily be so high in a sport that was expensive at their level, even more expensive now?

Foster: You should get Brent to tell you this story. Because he was telling it when we were at the World Equestrian Games in Normandy. I said to him, “Brent, tell me the story of how Tiffany Foster came to your barn as if I am not me.” He tells a really good story. So, you should ask him. 

We came from the North Shore with three other families. They thought we had good money for our kids because the other families did. 

Jacobsen: Which isn’t an uncommon thing in this industry.

Foster: Yes, basically, you have to. He kind of thought that we were… He spoke with the other parents of the other kids. Because he kind of saved me for the last, I guess. I don’t know. Tiffany and Rebecca were nice kids. And I was a nice person. So, we had a meeting with Tiffany and Rebecca, and Brent and Laura. He [Laughing] asked me how much I was willing to spend. Basically, what was in my budget for my kids…

Jacobsen: I can imagine how those conversations would go.

Foster: You should ask him, because it is a funny story. He says, “How much are you thinking of spending on your daughters’ lessons?” Brent would, probably, remember. I couldn’t remember. I said something like, “Uhhhh, probably, $12,000 a year.” [Laughing] He and Laura looked [Laughing] like, “Is she delusional?” Brent realized, ‘Oh, this lady has no idea how much these girls need if they want to ride and compete in equestrian sport.’ But he said, “Since these two scrawny little kids were such good little kids and the mother was nice, they decided at the time that they would give us a break.” At the time, he said, “It costs more than that. We need a working student. If you pay for your pony’s board, the girls could work for their lessons…” then he said, “Tiffany needs another horse.” Laura had this horse. They paid a lot of money for him, and he was injured. He was on rehab. They could free-lease him to Tiffany, and she could earn her lessons anddo  a couple of other things if I paid for the board. That is how the girls got into that. He said, “The next day, there they were. The mother and two little girls hauling hay and mucking stalls.” Whenever my girls had to do something new, I went with them, showed them how it was done, explained what they needed to do, then “let’s do it together” and then “show me how you do it.” Rebecca was nervous. But they were confident because I was there. So, when they knew what they had to do, then it was like, “Okay, get out of my way, I know what I am doing.” Tiffany did a babysitting course when she was 12. A young couple from our church were her first customers. I asked them  if I could come with Tiffany, orient her, and explain to her that a good babysitter didn’t just look after the kids, she should do more than that: cleaning up the kitchen, tidying up, etc. I followed the same formula with her: Do it together, explain, let me see how you do it, then do it alone. Even with Rebecca and her cooking, it was the same thing. That was another principle. “Let’s do it together, discover it, be clear and understand what our tasks are, and then I will watch you and give you advice, and then let you do it by yourself, when you are ready, I won’t be there anymore.” 

Jacobsen: From your own perspective, these are principles, ways of thinking, ways of delivering those ways of thinking to your kids at appropriate ages, with appropriate consequences, even choosing those consequences. What about situations for yourself as a parent, as any parent has?

Foster: I think I was very lucky with the children that I had. They weren’t hard to raise. I have to say, like I find it more challenging as an adult parent to adult children than I did when they were children.

Jacobsen: How so?

Foster: They were devoted to me. They really were. Do you want another story?

Jacobsen: Please.

Foster: It is kind of late. I’ll do a quick one. We lived in North Vancouver. Part of being in grade 6, children were enrolled in outdoor school for 1 week and learned about  nature. Rebecca, whose birthday is in January, was 2 years behind Tiffany in school.  The same incident occurred with both of those girls. I took Tiffany to the bus. We lived right behind the school. We walked through this greenspace, which the girls called “Fairy Land.” It was easy for me to walk them with their little backpacks. She was getting on the bus to go to outdoor school. Tiffany asked, “Why aren’t you coming with me?” 

“No, Tiffany, I can’t.”

“What?! You have to come.”

“Sorry, Tiffany, there are already enough parents who volunteered.” 

“No, you have to come with me. You have to come with me! I don’t want to go by myself.”

She started crying. Clinging to me, and didn’t want to get on the bus, I finally convinced her by getting one of her friends to help me. She got on the bus and I saw her face looking out the window at me with tears coming down her face. Rebecca knew nothing about that. Two years later, “You’re not coming with me?” Exactly the same kind of reaction, they were attached to me, because their dad was a kid. He goofed around with them and loved them , but really didn’t parent them. That was part of it. Another time, okay, riding, they were, probably, 9 ½ and eleven. I decided that they should go to an English riding camp in the summer for a week. So, I was telling them I had registered them.   The first words out of their mouths: “Are you coming?” 

“No, no, it is a kids’ camp. I can’t go.”

“We’re not going if you’re not going.” 

“It is going to be exciting,” blah-blah-blah. So, they wouldn’t go. They didn’t want to go and were upset. Then I found out there was a mother-daughter weekend camp in May. I said, “Hey, let’s go to this one, you’ll see. Then you’ll go to the other one without me.” So, we went to the mother-daughter [Laughing] camp. That was the first and only time I’ve ever ridden English, on this postage stamp piece of leather [Laughing]. 

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Foster: I was used to sitting in a Western saddle with this big saddlehorn to hang onto, sitting on a big comfortable seat queueing on a trail ride. That was one thing I did for my daughters. I took this English riding camp. I was so sore. I could hardly move [Laughing]. 

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Foster: They were not difficult children to raise. They were usually happier when their mother was around. You know what I am saying? There was another thing. I taught customer service and leadership skills to the staff and management at the airline. One thing that was very important in the Pacific Western/Canadian Airlines culture was the concept of reward and recognition: how necessary, critical, and important it is to humans… I studied this theory developed by a guy named Eric Berne, a Human Behavior psychologist. In the 70’s, Thomas Harris wrote a book called I’m OK – You’re OK, based on Berne’s research. It was very popular in those days. 

Jacobsen: I recall these phrases.

Foster: He developed transactional analysis. 

Jacobsen: Transactional Psychology.

Foster: Yes. 

(Belgian military, Chief of Humanist Chaplains and 2-Star General, who was visiting me and joined us) Hans De Ceuster: Games People Play.

Jacobsen: Games People Play.

Foster: In the book, Games People Play, Eric Berne described three principle needs humans instinctively crave. You may be familiar with this as well.  Although you’re probably more familiar with  Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs and all that. I liked Berne’s theory because it is much more simplified. He explains that humans crave three things: Recognition, Structure, and Stimulation. So, I did extensive  research and included it in my course. Being in the Service industry, I focused most on recognition. But, as a parent, I realized that all three of them are important. That’s, basically, the principles that I raised my children by, in many ways.

Jacobsen: What about recognition?

Foster: In terms of recognition, often, as parents, typically we will focus on what kids do wrong instead of what kids do right, right? The principle I learned from Eric Berne,  is that what gets recognized gets repeated. When teaching this to the leaders for their employees and staff, I use the example of children. Let us say you and I meet in a supermarket; I have my children. You and I are in a conversation. The kids want my attention, saying, “Mommy, mommy.” I say, “Behave yourself, be quiet.” The kid wants my attention. Because I am talking to you and ignoring the kid, sometimes, the kid will knock over a display, hit the brother, or do a naughty thing. Then, what does the parent do? They pay attention to the kid. Now, the kid learns that the parent will pay attention to them if they do naughty things. My principle is that it’s more important torecognize when the kids do good things. Because what gets recognized, gets repeated.

So, instead, say to the little child, “I am speaking with Scott. Let us listen to what Scott has to say, then it will be your turn.” and then at the end, say to the child, “Thank you for being polite and listening to what Scott has to say.” Coincidentally, I made a point of recognizing a good action the day before yesterday. There was a kid competing at the horse show. His dad had left his riding boots in the car. The car was way over in the east parking lot. The kid had to go right away to the ring and get on his horse. The dad says to me, “Lynne, I left Jairo’s riding boots in the car. Do you know any kid who can let him borrow boots so he doesn’t miss the class?” 

Do you know Veronica Dromboski?

Jacobsen: No. 

Foster: Veronica is a trainer and she was there, training some of her younger students. She said, “Skye, can you lend Jairo your boots?” Skye said, “Yeah.” I said, “Skye did something nice and readily helped him out, without hesitating. She is eight years old.” I spoke to Veronica. I said I wanted to recognize Skye for that. I got some George bucks (Thunderbird gift certificates) and wrote a note to say, “Thank you so much for your kindness and generosity, and it was good of you to give up your boots and allow Jairo to enter the ring.” I gave it to her yesterday. The girl was over the moon. This is another example of how much recognizing even the simplest ordinary gestures can have an impact on the person who did something nice. It made her day! You must recognize this. That even not-so-great, ordinary gestures can be recognized. 

Jacobsen: I cannot say. However, you have made a very kind gesture for a young lady, a teenager I know. One was having a tough day. That was a very sweet thing that you did. I appreciate that. Things like that are the currency of many equestrians I know. 

Foster: Yes. I am fortunate because I did have children who were easy to [Laughing] manage. I do not know how to explain, but it is easy to impose those principles. However, I have to say. I had a father who was like that. He would do similar things and help us learn things by living our lives. 

Jacobsen: You mentioned earlier the church you’re a part of; your partner, Glenn, was more of a kid. 

Foster: He is still a kid. He is 74. I am still his mother [Laughing].

Jacobsen: Did you feel alone in that parenting effort regarding the heavier lifting?

Foster: We were married for ten years before we had children, and we were married for 25 years when he chose to leave the marriage. I always say I was a better mother than a wife for him. He needed a mother at the time. I was told by my childhood friend, who is still my friend. “You have always been a mother, even when we were in elementary school. When someone was fighting, you would try to help them resolve their issues.” I realized I did not know what kind of person I was then. Even a few days ago, I was cleaning the house, and found a good citizenship award certificate I received when I was 11 years old. Also, when I was a young teenager, I belonged to the Anglican Girls’ Auxiliary, and was awarded the GA Honor ring. It was an honouring of my contribution to the values and principles of that organization. I didn’t realize that was the kind of person I was; I probably imposed some of those principles on my daughters when they were growing up. 

Jacobsen: It is a sense of temperament rather than role. There is a sense that temperament comes first, and the role is derivative. 

Foster: I wanted children so much. I lost one child. She was born too early. But there was a reason for that. I am very grateful for that. That is another long story that I don’t need to tell you. I had Tiffany when I was 35 and Rebecca when I was 36. Sometimes, you have a different approach when you are that age. Like, my friend said, I was always a mother. I had that attitude and gratitude for being gifted with two precious daughters. Tiffany was a very sweet baby. Rebecca, if she could eat, she was happy. [Laughing]

Jacobsen: There is a trendline there, too. I have approximately two years in the industry with no background. When I am at competition grounds, do work, or even at the home barn, most of the people who show up for these kids are the moms. In much of the community, at least in English riding, show jumping, and eventing, the mothers are the ones who are the support, the infrastructure as you called it yesterday, for the wellbeing and trajectory of health and wellbeing in this sport for mostly girls in this country. 

Foster: Your original question was if I feel alone.

Jacobsen: Yesterday, I interviewed one woman who is the mother of a girl in para-dressage. I asked her, “Do the mothers talk and have a similar experience? “She said, “Yes.” Not necessarily the aloneness, but just the anxiety about getting kids to a functional, independent life, such as it is. I would assume a similar thing for you and other mothers of daughters in show jumping. 

Foster: At the North Shore Equestrian Centre, we would sit there watching our children, and we became friends. As a result, when the three families chose to come out to Thunderbird, it was the moms, not the dads, who were there. The moms initiated, ‘Our children should be going somewhere else’. The environment wasn’t good for them or the horses at the time.  It was another mother and I who did research and site visits. Also, we were all living on the North Shore. One family did move out to Langley. My husband was a firefighter and worked four days on and four days off. He used to say, “It is a pain in the ass, to have to drive the girls to the barn” etc, even though he had the most free time of all the parents.

Jacobsen: That’s horrifying. 

Foster: The one set of parents that moved out to Langley had one daughter. The other six kids had to be driven there from North Van six days a week. The other Moms also had children who were in different sports. So, they were only able to drive one day a week for the six days. I drove three days a week. 

Jacobsen: That’s the teamwork. 

Foster: We supported each other. I had two daughters who were both in the sport. They each had two more kids in sports that they also had to support. I lived in North Vancouver, worked at the airport in Richmond, and had to get out to Langley from the North Shore. The best I could do most of the time with their father, Glenn, was to have him drive the kids over the bridge so I could get them to their lessons on time. There was a Costco on the Grandview Highway and Boundary Road. He would bring them there, all of them. I would pile them into my car. I would drive to Langley after work, hang out with the kids, and bring them back. We developed a system that worked. I don’t know if I felt alone because I had those women. I had the women who were there. The dad provided the money to be able to have the kids go. Mine didn’t. He liked to spend the money on other things that were important to him. But again, you manage as you can. Tiffany and Rebecca began working and earning their lessons and things like that.

Jacobsen: Do you notice any changes in cultural trends, speaking of equestrianism? Women in developed societies are a significant portion of the employed economy and are far more educated than men. It is not even close. For instance, in some countries, women are 40% of the breadwinners, making more or being the sole income. Do you think dynamics are changing some of the assumed roles within a partnership, a heterosexual partnership?

Foster: I was the only mother of those families that worked. The other two (women) did not work. They were stay-at-home moms. I suppose, yes, it must be changing. I cannot say because I am not in that society anymore. I am 74 years old. I have a 37-year-old and a 39-year-old children, now women, who are my daughters. Perhaps, in my role with Thunderbird, I do see. But I do see fathers there more than when my kids were younger. I do see dads supporting their kids and being with them. A lot of them support their young kids. Then there are the  mothers who are the ones that are riding, and the fathers are there with the children. That is a different society than what it was when I was there. Again, my kids didn’t start riding until they were 8.  It wasn’t like competitive riding, and  I wasn’t a rider.

Jacobsen: Also, the options available to women were more limited.

Foster: I was a working mom, an airline customer service instructor who had to regularly travel for my work.I did not even think about a hobby. I was involved at the church in my community in North Vancouver when my children were younger.  We had a group called  St. Martin’s  Players. We did musical theater and performed pantomimes. I also was a Brownie leader. That was my recreation. When my husband and I split up, and I moved to Langley, I joined an A Cappella singing group. That was my personal self-preservation indulgence. I was also very lucky in my life path because of my daughters and their interests. 

Jacobsen: You’ve given your life to them.  

Foster: I did. I did. I gave my life to them. That was important to me because I wanted children so badly. I love kids. 

Jacobsen: My mother had miscarriages and a similar sensibility. 

Foster: You value them so much. They are very precious assets or whatever. I don’t know. But if you can provide something to help them to grow, why not do it? I get a sense of accomplishment. I can take credit for providing the opportunities to pursue those paths because they couldn’t do it without me. If my husband and I hadn’t split, we probably wouldn’t have come to Langley. They wouldn’t have started to work for Brent and Laura. Tiffany wouldn’t have shown that she has this talent. Brent and Laura wouldn’t have put all this effort into Tiffany because she was riding their sales horses. Maybe, if we had the money, Tiffany wouldn’t have gone that path anyway. She would probably be an amateur owner doing it as a hobby. I don’t know how to explain it. I feel like there was a destiny kind of thing.

Same for Rebecca. She has great respect in the food service community with influential people because she worked with them. Rebecca is an incredible person, too. She was attending university and because we could not afford her to attend full-time, she would go from September to December. Then, she would work in the horse world grooming from January until August to earn money and then return home to attend the fall semester.  I started working in the industry to keep my eye on my kids because they were working. I wanted to ensure they were doing what they were supposed to do and that they weren’t exploited. Young kids, “I love horses. I will do anything.” Sometimes, adults take advantage of that. 

Jacobsen: Correct.

Foster: I did not want that to happen to my girls, particularly with Tiffany in the film industry. I was there, so I made sure everything worked for her. I wanted to do the same when they were working in the horse and equestrian worlds. By that time, I was working at BCIT.  I was getting nine weeks of vacation. Brent suggested that I go talk to Dianne(Tidball), Laura’s mom, to see what I could do for work at Thunderbird during the horse shows. He said, “Dianne could probably use some help at the new facility, go and see.” I did. That’s when she said, “You can do hospitality.” I was feeding everybody. She wanted all the employees fed: office staff, in-gate people, ring crew, officials, and also to provide some interesting exhibitor events. 

I was the only one in hospitality at the time. I did it. But I had a 13-year-old, Rebecca, who loved to prepare food. She helped me when she wasn’t grooming or going to school. Then Chris Pack who was working at Thunderbird, and his friend, Pat Kerr bought this little trailer that they made into a little food concession. They called it The Tasty Bit. I co-signed a loan for him. They were going to university at the time, and I thought, “I need to help you with this.” So, we developed a menu that offered a healthy alternative to fast food, and Rebecca became a cook at age 15. She stood at the 4-burner stove in that trailer for 3 to 3.5 hours a day preparing custom-ordered hot pasta without a break. She would cook the food and I would buy local produce and prep it for her.  It was a good concept…healthy fast food.

By the time she graduated high school and had attended four semesters at university. She thought, “What am I doing going to university?” She thought that was what she had to do. She loved working with food, so she switched to Vancouver Community College and registered for the Culinary Arts Diploma program. While going to college, she got a job at a Belgian-style pub.

There were three jobs available. One was dishwashing. The other was hostessing. The other one, I forgot, was doing food prep, maybe. She applied for the dishwashing job. I said, “Rebecca, you have been helping me prepare food and you have experience as a cook. Why are you applying for a dishwasher job?” She said, “I applied for a dishwasher job because I already know how to be good at washing dishes so I don’t have to worry about it when I’m at work. If there are other things I can offer to learn to do that aren’t my responsibility, I will get more skills.”

‘If you want the best the world has to offer, offer the world your best.’ She did. Then she started helping the chef and the sous chef. Pretty soon, the restaurant owner said, “Rebecca, I want you to do this and that…no more dishwashing!” They were teaching her things because she was eager to learn. She did her job well. So, he wanted to reward her. She went to culinary arts school and then graduated top of the class. As a result, she had an opportunity. 

Do you know the Chambar Restaurant in Vancouver?  Nico Schuermans, a chef originally from Belgium, owns it. He is well known. He co-owns the Dirty Apron Cooking School and Cafe Medina. Rebecca worked for him. He thought she was incredible. He is still her mentor. By thinking, “When I go to work, I want to do the job well. Then I can learn more things and can contribute,” she has gained a very valuable relationship with someone who willingly has supported her in her venture as a restaurant owner herself. It will be 12 years next season that The Bale and Bucket has offered healthy fast food at Thunderbird Show Park.  

Jacobsen: Start with what you know. Before starting here, I worked in four restaurants. I took any position I could get, even Event Coordinator, for a little while. They even made a card. Everyone gets thrown in the dishpit to start, to know what that is like because everyone thinks it is the worst job – because it is.

Foster: Another opportunity! Thunderbird asked Rebecca to come into the horse world and take over the restaurant that was there.  When she took it on, she had an advantage that others who had been in it before her didn’t have. She was a groom. So, she knows what the grooms need when it comes to food service and she had her previous horse show food service experience.The timing was everything. She has been there 11 years and people rave about her food.

Jacobsen: Do what you can reach out to because you will be surprised by the cross-linkages; I can give you an example if you want – it takes about a minute. I have been doing interviews for about a decade with Mensa and various other high-IQ groups. There is one that is called the Mega Society. It was a one-in-a-million society when they had the world’s highest IQ category in Guinness; that was the society they used as the metric. Smart person and a comedy writer for Jimmy Kimmel for about 12 years; there were other members like Marilyn Vos Savant and Keith Raniere. This guy (Raniere) is one of the worst scandals I have seen in the high-IQ world. He formed a multilevel marketing scheme in the 90s. Then he formed a cult. The cult branded like cattle, women. These women would sleep with him. He was involved in trafficking. It was an organization called NXVIM. His name was Vanguard within it. Two ladies who got involved with him were part of a family fortune. He swindled them out of $150,000,000 (USD). If you check their bios, it says, ‘Brief equestrian career.’ I asked my friend about it. I check it up. Those names were Clare and Sara Bronfman. When I talked to one of my bosses, they knew about it. They were in that world. One has been safe-sported, at least. I will be writing on the SafeSport cases. One, at least, is in jail. It is weird to me that this one area was related. With cross-pollination, you should pursue your passions. Explore your talents; they can be dramatic or benign, like being a groom and dishwasher and knowing the timings in the different industries. 

Jacobsen: Because of that, there is a lot of corruption in this world. There is a lot of exploitation and things like that. Getting back to the role of the mom, where do you belong? 

Foster: I am not an important person, but I am part of the infrastructure because I went in and worked for Dianne. Dianne had some strong principles. Her daughters and son will tell you that as well. She ran the ship. She had expectations. One of the things she told me. “You are Hospitality. But when you are at the Show Park, you look after it. Whatever you can do, do it. If a toilet is plugged, unplug it. If there’s litter on the ground, pick it up and throw it away. It is important that that is part of your role as well. Make sure it is clean and safe.”

 It is based on her personality of hospitality and a family-oriented environment. Making sure if there was anything I could do to make anyone else feel welcome and safe, I would do it. My career was in a safety and service-oriented (another word for hospitality) industry, which brings me to my current job at Thunderbird. You read the article. It was about rewards and recognition. 

I am now responsible for coordinating Ribbons and Awards, and I volunteered to be the employee advocate. One of my jobs that I felt was necessary, was to provide support to the crew, (which I haven’t done very well this year because I have been super busy), and introduce myself to each one of the employees.

I used to do orientations. We’ve let it slip by the wayside because other things, like COVID  have distracted us. We would do orientation sessions at the beginning of the year. Just because you pick up poop or  serve coffee or serve food, it doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be part of the team. I initiated the Tbird Spirit Recognition program. But again, I have to depend on management to see it through because I am a seasonal employee and don’t have the ability to provide special awards and stuff like that. I had it all laid out for them. It has fallen to the wayside because they thought other commitments were more important than that. 

I also created the Legacy Club. 

Because I did hospitality and fed everybody when this Show Park started up , I knew all of the old regime; the people who were judges and stewards and the coaches 23 years (or so) ago. Eventually, they retired. More people now come to the shows and there are more employees. They don’t know these veterans of the equestrian sport. I know them because I fed them. They were retired people working as officials. I saw Dave Esworthy, an elderly gentleman who was well-respected and known in the industry, wandering around Show Park maybe 12 years ago, looking for someone who knew him so that he could go and watch the Grand Prix.

Jacobsen: No one knew who he was. 

Foster: No one working in Hospitality knew who he was. Dianne, by this time, was ill. She had early dementia, and Jane had recently taken over. At the time, Jane didn’t know him because, originally, Jane wasn’t in the equestrian sport world. She was in the skiing world when she was younger [Ed. Olympics, Jane Tidball]. I greeted Dave with pleasure and asked, “Are you going to the Grand Prix field?” I took him to the TimberFrame, introduced him to the hostess and invited him to take a seat. 

I thought it was so sad that this man was such a longtime integral and influential contributor to the sport and on that day, he was a nobody until I recognized him.  So I approached Jane and Chris and said, “I think we should have…” You will get a kick out of this. I wanted to do something to give recognition to the people who initially supported the equestrian industry years ago because, in Canada, equestrian sport is not a high-visibility, popular sport. Right? Here was Dave; he put his heart and soul into it since he was young. He was a trainer, rider, and coach. He was a judge. That was how I knew him because I fed him as a judge. I introduced him to Chris and Jane. I said, “We should be honouring these people and offering them some kind of membership in a club.”They wholeheartedly agreed. Because everyone knows “Captain Canada,” Ian Millar, we wanted to think of a good name for these folks. You’re going to get a kick out of this.  I suggested “The Pasture Prime Club”, but Jane didn’t like it, so we settled for The Legacy Club.

Jacobsen: [Laughing] That’s very good.

Ceuster: [Laughing] You’re past your prime. 

Foster: Isn’t that good? When a horse has done its best and is finished doing its job it’s put out to pasture. And prime is a word used to describe the best possible quality or excellence!

Ceuster: [Laughing].

Jacobsen: The girls at the barn would know. That would be something I would say. 

Foster: The farm Tiffany operates out of in Belgium is now the retirement farm. Those barns are in a pasture. 

Ceuster: Antwerp?

Foster: Just outside of Antwerp.

Ceuster: Vrasene.

Foster: Yes! That’s it! 

Ceuster: Yes, I found it on the website.

Foster: Thank you for doing that. That barn is still there. It is now also a breeding farm. Artisan Farms still owns it. The owner of Artisan Farms keeps his favorite horses there and Tiffany’s Olympic horses are retired there.  They spend their time in the pasture. They were prime.

Jacobsen: These horses must be incredible.

Foster:  Yes! So, we called it the Legacy Club instead. It’s kind of boring, but it does offer membership to someone who has contributed to the industry, is over the age of 70, is not actively working anymore, and has retired basically from whatever their contribution was, but their heart is still there. What they get is free access to the VIP area and the TimberFrame; they can go anywhere in Thunderbird and enjoy being a special person there. There are about five of them that come to the shows these days and have been welcomed into the Club.. Dave passed away as did Alfie Fletcher.  To me, that’s a part of honouring the infrastructure there.

Jacobsen: You have to do this. 

Foster: You cannot put on a show without having those people. 

Jacobsen: The best form of memory right now is institutional memory. Word of mouth degrades fast. Print, few people read. So, having a place for these people, they can tell their stories.

Foster: It is to show that we respect and honour them and have gratitude for them, for they have made the industry what it is now. 

Jacobsen: As a teenager, I was kicked out of the house for several months. I was a troublesome kid. I got back! I got back. 

Foster: I can tell you. I am surprised you didn’t end up at my house because I took in a lot of kids whose parents kicked them out. After all, they weren’t happy with them. 

Jacobsen: One of your kids, you told me, threatened to run away.

Foster: Tiffany only tried twice, but there were other kids. One was hooked on speed. The other was promiscuous. Her stepfather said, “Get the hell out.” She was 16! Tiffany said, “She has nowhere to go. Can she come and stay with us?” Long story short, it was eight years that I lived just outside of Walnut Grove by the Redwoods Golf Course; the house was brand new in 1999 when my girls and I moved in. When I sold the place and went back to North Vancouver, I thought, “This place has had a lot of people (besides my two daughters and me) live in it.” I decided I would figure out how many, using the time frame of anyone who had lived with us for more than three months: 13 people…not all at once, but over the eight years.

 I had a homeless guy staying in the basement once. But the girls that worked for Brent and Laura and lived in my house, they felt uncomfortable. Brent was the one who found him. I don’t know where he found this guy. He was trying to help him out, and asked me if he could stay in the basement. I was okay with him. The girls weren’t. I had to ask him to leave.  Jesse, Sarah, and Sid were living there when I sold . Jesse and Sarah had been there for three years. They were disappointed when I said I was selling and moving back to North Vancouver. Jesse is the one who is now married to Chris Pack, who also lived in my house for about 2 years. 

Jacobsen: It is a very tightknit community, like Fort Langley. Once they are there, they’re there. 

Foster: I’m surprised you didn’t come to live at my house! [Laughing] How old are you?

Jacobsen: 34. 

Foster: Yes, so you could have been one of those kids. 

Foster: So, questions?

Jacobsen: Last question.

Foster: Did you get what you needed? 

Jacobsen: Oh yeah. You mentioned about a half hour ago. It is more challenging to be a parent of adult children now than of children. 

Foster: I was 50 when my husband and I split up. I was married at 25, ten of which I had no children, and 15 with the kids. I was working in a high profile job and involved in several activities. I am not a solitary person. You probably gather that.

Jacobsen: Yes!

Foster: I had my husband. Like I said, I was a good mother to him – maybe not a good wife. As a mother, I was occupied. I had a lot of things happen at the same time. I grew up in my career because I was 19 when I started working, almost 20, in the airlines. I always had a goal or something to work for, etc. Then, when my husband and I split, Air Canada gobbled up the airline I grew up in. I left my community where I had my society with the church and the performing and all of that kind of stuff. I left that and all of my friends. I came out here for my kids. Then, I was able to take on this new role for Dianne.

I also took on launching two new diploma programs and teaching for BCIT Aerospace Campus. I was busy. I was needed. Then, I wasn’t thinking of myself in terms of what I needed. Somebody to support me or to be there for me. I was busy being there for them. My daughters went their separate ways. Then, I had another tragic incident that happened. I was able to support the affected family through that. I was needed. So, I was okay doing that. My daughters left me. I had the other girls in the house. I had people with me. Then, I moved back to North Vancouver, and Rebecca was going to UBC so she lived with me for the semester. Then she said, “I am 22-years-old. A 22-year-old should not live with her mom.” So, she moved out. But, I still had my students at BCIT until I retired in 2017.

Suddenly, I am by myself. My daughters had moved on. There is some other stuff, a dynamic, which was hard for me when I went to Florida. That’s when I was lonely. I was done at BCIT. My daughters were doing their own thing. I tried to explain to them how I was feeling. They didn’t want to hear it. Eventually, I called a meeting with them. It was a meeting with expected desired outcomes because I felt I needed to express how I felt. I felt I was being left out of their lives. Do you know what Tiffany said to me? She said, “You are the reason why. You raised us to be independent, freethinking, good thinking, capable, confident women who can now solve their own problems.” She didn’t say it in this way, but I got the message: We don’t need you anymore.

Jacobsen: You gave us the principles.

Foster: I was used to being the one who gave everything. Then they didn’t want anything. That was hard for me. Then, Debbie, you didn’t meet her. She is cleaning the bedroom over at the house right now. She and her sister have been a part of my family. My husband and I would borrow these kids before we had ours whenever we wanted a ‘kid-fix’.. Their mother…we had been friends since we were 11 years old. Sorry, I like to make long stories longer. Anyway, their mother died at age 35, a week after Debbie turned 13. Her sister, Becky was 11. It was three weeks before Tiffany was born.  Those girls helped me with my new baby because it was summertime. Becky has always been very close to me. She is now grown up and she is my sounding board, but she lives in Ottawa..

I was feeling so lonely and hurt because my daughters weren’t integrating me into their adult lives. They were moving on, etc. That kind of stuff. I kind of vented how I felt with Becky. She said – and there is more to it, “Okay, all right, I want you to answer this question. If I asked Tiffany and Rebecca who they would choose for a mother, would they choose your sister? someone else? or you?” I didn’t hesitate.. I knew they would choose me. I was just lonely. I had no partner, you see. If I had a partner or somebody I could talk to and feel like he cared for me, my state-of-mind would be different. I didn’t have that with Glenn because I cared for him. I do not mean to make it sound like it was one way. He was devoted to me as long as I was devoted to him. You know what I am saying? But when I had children, I focused more on the kids than on him. He was used to 10 years of just him.

Jacobsen: It was probably a blow for him.

Foster: He couldn’t handle the responsibility of parenthood. So, he had an affair with a woman for two years. The girls were the ones who found out. Anyway, that is another story. I felt like I wasn’t needed in their lives anymore. So, that was hard for me. I think if I had a partner and if I had somebody, it wouldn’t… you know. I think there were some other causes, but they were resolved. I had my students. I retired in 2017. What do I have? I have Thunderbird and I drive around and wave at everybody; then everybody waves at me. That makes me feel good. [Laughing]. 

Jacobsen: [Laughing]

Ceuster: So, you’re part of Pasture Prime. 

Jacobsen: Yeah, ahhh!

Foster: I should be put out to pasture now. [Laughing] So, that’s what I mean. Does that make sense to you? It was a big part. My kids were devoted to me, and then they were gone. Like Tiffany said, “You were the one who helped us be who we are today.” 

Ceuster: Sometimes, my mother feels that way. She is in Europe. 

Foster: So, you understand.

Ceuster: My mother was part of the European Parliament and started an NGO. 

Jacobsen: She was! God, your whole family. 

Ceuster: She started an NGO to combat human trafficking. My youth was with the children victims of human trafficking in the house the whole time. 

Foster: Is that why you chose the path you’ve chosen for your life?

Ceuster: I first ran away, not physically. I ran from Antwerp and went to Brussels for school.

Jacobsen: Another runaway. 

Ceuster: Antwerp was too scary and dangerous. My mother was being protected by security. All the while, she was fighting mobsters and human trafficking. 

Foster: Mobsters, woah. 

Ceuster: Albanian. 

Foster: Where is your mother now?

Ceuster: In Belgium. 

Jacobsen: So, Albanian mobsters were after your mother.

Ceuster: She is still there. She can come to Vancouver to teach at the university. We have students from Vancouver coming to Belgium for our NGO. 

Jacobsen: Did she ever go to Albania?

Ceuster: Many times, all over. So, now, she is taking care of my father. 

Foster: How old is your mother?

Ceuster: 71

Foster: Oh, she is younger than I am. 

Ceuster: I can understand if you’re always with or helping people. 

Jacobsen: Any more questions? Any final feelings or thoughts based on the conversation today?

Foster: I think I would ask you that question.

Jacobsen: [Pause] I asked first.

Foster: [Laughing] I talk a lot. I tell a lot of stories. I was raised to trust people. Unless they prove untrustworthy, I would trust that the information or the stories I have given you will be treated with integrity. Does that make any sense?

Jacobsen: Accurately represented in the text. They would be veracious. They would have veracity. They would have truth value in presenting tone, context, and word choice. My thoughts: Your personality resembles the one you noted about Berne. “I am okay. You’re okay.” Hence, the concluding statement about raised to be trusting. To me, that seems more like temperament than how you were raised because I think many of our temperaments and proclivities are inborn. It seems. We seem to be an incomplete package. But a snowflake will form if it is frozen water or freezing water. How that snowflake will form? We don’t know.

Similarly, I think our character, temperament, and talents are largely heritable. The form in which it takes will also be dependent on culture. We find this in linguistics, as Noam Chomsky told us or taught us. There is something like generative grammar, where we see these differences in languages, representations of languages, symbols, and symbolic structures. Yet, those differences in symbolic structures have a standard grammar and structure. So, you can draw all of those surface differences rather than differences to an underlying core structure. It is similar to our character. 

What I notice with you, I see, “I am okay. You’re okay.” We all have encountered people who are, “I am not, you’re okay. You’re not okay.” We typically say those people are depressed [Laughing]. Other things that come to mind. 

You use practical examples to convey principles. Those principles are taught as per your self-identified role as a mother. Both of your children are very successful in their chosen passions. One recognized nationally for her food prep is in the restauranteur world. The other is recognized internationally in terms of current Longines rankings as the best Canadian rider, just behind Laura Kraut as the #2 woman rider in the world. It’s very tight, like 25, 29. Last year, in July, she was number one. Erynn Ballard, the first half of the year, was number one. The reason for Canada creating such great women riders is from Mac Cone; in my interview with him, he put it down to a focus on equitation and hunters. That’s probably a reasonable thing to think. Your parenting is devoting your entire life to your kids. So then, it has been a thought to me. Less as a journalistic point, if you look at the top riders, typically, they will be European, Western European men. 

Foster: Yes.

Jacobsen: I think if there was an effort to have more gender balance for show jumping in that way, maybe that area of the world – The western European region – could consider Mac Cone’s statement to me. If the focus is on equitation and hunters to have so many great women in the industry in Canada, maybe, if they had more focus on equitation and hunters in Europe, you could get a little more talent development and interest from girls for a little bit of a better balance.

Foster: It is quite puzzling when you look at the younger kids who come to the show, mostly female. I don’t know if that is what it is like in Europe. But it is primarily females who are coming.

Jacobsen: Everywhere has said this. 

Foster: Yet, when you get to the professional level, Tiffany was the leading lady rider in the world but was number 33 in the standings. 

Ceuster: I was thinking. Does Tiffany have a partner or have children?

Foster: No.

Jacobsen: No, she has mentioned this in interviews: She doesn’t have a partner, a husband, or children. She is doing this solo. She has her team.

Ceuster: It is not about solo. Still, in this society, women get their careers sidetracked. I do not know anything about show jumping or horses, and I do not know what age you are in your prime to be a rider. 

Foster: That’s an interesting question, Hans. This is what I say to my non-horsey people: There is no gender differentiation at all. And…there is no age limit.

Jacobsen: That’s right. 

Foster: Ian Millar was 69-years-old, I think at the London Olympics. The last time he competed. he was 72. 

Ceuster: It is about the age between 24 and 40 when…

Foster: … when they have childbearing and stuff. You have to time your childbearing.

Jacobsen: There are extremes, though. There is a Brazilian rider. She has been on the Olympic team for Brazil 2 or 3 times. She was first for the Olympics for dressage at age 16 or 17. That’s insane. Yet, you can have outliers like those who set that time range in a different mixup. What I find with a lot of horse people is that there are too many variables with a live animal. So, a lot of stuff is a rule of thumb. You can say 24 to 40. 

Ceuster: It is about giving people chances. What you see now is the mothers riding. The fathers…

Foster: …looking after the kids. 

Ceuster: Maybe, there will be more.

Foster: There will be a shift. You’re right. I just thought of something. For Canada, for the team, the successful team, all women. 

Jacobsen: Erynn Ballard, Beth Underhill, Tiffany Foster, and Amy Millar.

Ceuster: His daughter.

Jacobsen: They went to Herning, Denmark. 

Ceuster: Maybe, it is getting better.

Foster: She (Tiffany) was the only one who qualified for the final. They had some issues there. 

Jacobsen: We can leave those for articles. People can get mad at me. 

Foster: It is not really my position to discuss it. The point is that there were four women on the team. 

Ceuster: Women fade out of careers because they become mothers.

Foster: I was surprised this year. There were so many babies at Thunderbird for the season!

Jacobsen: Yes. You should see the barn. So many kids! So many.

Foster: These were babies. All these women had their babies in the last year or so.

Jacobsen: Miriam!

Foster: The dads are there packing their little kids around in their pouches.

Ceuster: In Europe and Belgium, it is pretty normal to have kids later and pursue your career.

Jacobsen: In that department, I would argue that America is 25 years behind us and Europe is 25 years ahead of us. 

Foster: Yes, it is interesting. Just based on gender more than anything else, women tend to be more resilient than men simply because they have to be. You guys don’t have to go through any pain to have those children [Laughing].

Jacobsen: Correct.

Ceuster: We don’t need the muscle as much to develop the countries. Public schools are needed right now.

Jacobsen: In the not-too-distant future, it’s just a matter of reverse engineering in a way, or just improving that engineering, before you get semi-autonomous robots, which can do basic tasks for us. They will be expensive at first. They get cheap like every cellphone. Who knows? Some of these artificial intelligence are well-developed in the military. Thank you very much for the time and hospitality and for being so wonderful. 

Foster: I tend to tell a long story. I hope I gave you what you wanted and what you’re looking for. I can talk a lot about infrastructure. 

Jacobsen: We talked about those before. It’s not the physical infrastructure. It is the understanding: Pick one of these choices, and they have various consequences. You live in a free country – go. They learn this at a young age. So when they make those choices, you are teaching them the non-tangible infrastructure of life. Life is just about choices. There is no single answer. That’s life. You’ll find out the hard way or as you grow. 

Foster: Can I give you one theory which I have?

Jacobsen: Go!

Foster: It is about one’s life. This is my theory: From 0 to 20, you, as a living, breathing human, don’t have much control over your life. Your life is influenced and managed by your parents, caregivers, teachers, and maybe your first employer in the first 0 to 20 years of your life. You are not managing your life. Somebody else is managing. You are a vessel. They are contributing to your growth. Your caregivers are depositing their values and ethics based on what they have learned themselves, so they are influencing you. Like with my daughters, I am contributing to providing that influence. I, as a parent or as a caregiver or as a teacher, from 0 to 20. 

After 20, you get to take whatever you’ve got from those who were managing your life at that time or caring for you during that time, and you get to try it on and see. What is it that fits you? What doesn’t? Go and experience your life, seeing other families, cultures, religions, environments, whatever; you check it all out and see what fits with you based upon what was given to you first, learn things, and try them on yourself. I have this theory. I have said this to quite a few young people. We ask our kids to decide about the future and their lives too soon. How can you, at 17, say, “Yes, I am going to go to university and study this, that, and the other thing”? Unless you have a specific passion like Tiffany. You always wanted to be a doctor. You want to be a truck driver, whatever. Most of us don’t know that yet. I certainly didn’t know that at 18 or 19. 

So, you’ve got from 20 to 30 to figure it out. What you’ve been given, what you can use, how you can gain more. It is your responsibility to go out, learn and make mistakes, have triumphs, whatever it takes. Then, at 30, if, after you’ve tried yourself on for ten years and you still didn’t find what fits for you, you have to decide, choose a path, and take that path. Maybe it is the right path, or it could be the wrong path. By 50, if you haven’t found the path that leads you to your self-actualization needs, as Maslow talked about, you still have a chance at 50. 

Now that you’ve got 50 years of experience, 30 of which you’ve had within your control, you can still go and try something new and see, especially if you feel you haven’t gotten what you’ve wanted in your life. Until you’re 70, then you must either reap your rewards or accept your punishment [Laughing] for your bad decisions because it is too late to do anything about it. You’re now on the downward slope and just looking at your life, either reveling in it because you’ve gotten so much out of your life or “shit.” My ex-husband is that way. He is a man riddled with regret. He dwells on the past. Be grateful for what you’ve got; look for the good things in your life.

Ceuster: The last phase after 70 is the latter, right? We talk about it in our meetings. 

Jacobsen: The NATO meetings?

Ceuster: Yes. At certain points, people start to reflect on their lives, regret what they’ve done, and say, “I’m sorry.”

Jacobsen: If they have a conscience… There is a small portion of the population who have none.

Foster: Right, that is when you can seek restitution. If you realize, “Oops,” [Laughing], “What have I done? What have I done to others?” Something else: Tiffany and Rebecca…when we found out that a very close family friend was suddenly diagnosed with terminal cancer. She only had about a month, if she was lucky, to live. These girls, they were in their teens then, were stunned and wondered how she was dealing with the fact that her life would end sooner than ever expected.. “Auntie has been told she only has that amount of time to live.” I said, “What we are guaranteed in our lifetime is that we will die. How or when do we die? Most of us don’t know yet. We have a certain amount of time on this earth. You have to live your life as if every day will be your last, and do what you can to make sure you have no regrets. That is all you can control.”

Jacobsen: That’s true. That’s true. 

Foster: So that you have no regrets. You have to live your life. My kids always say to me, “YOLO.” [Laughing] You only live once. 

Ceuster: No, you only die once.” 

Jacobsen: [Laughing] I have heard that retort once.

Foster: You do. You have to live your life. If you leave today, will you regret not doing what you should have done? Will you regret something that you did do? You have to think that there has to be a purpose on this Earth to do some good. Unfortunately, there is a certain length of time for you. We all have an expiration date. What you are focusing on is that you’ve got to build up that purpose instead of the corruption and evil in this world as you talk about humanness. 

Ceuster: I do not know the term that you use for it. I always call myself a positive naif. I am positive, nice to people, and naive because I don’t know the reaction. Someone says, “Bad person.” I can find that out for myself. Most of the time, I don’t get hurt. 

Foster: You’re right. Pre-judgment is called prejudice, and attracts  negative behaviour. Right after I graduated from high school, I went one year to university. I shouldn’t have gone then because I was not ready for it. I came from a small school and went to this big university, and I didn’t know anybody except for about 12 other students who were in my high school graduating class. I didn’t do well in university, so I didn’t go back after the first year.The following year, my sister and I spent a summer traveling through Europe in a Westphalia Volkswagen camper that our parents gave to us as a Christmas gift. We were 17 and 19 at the time. We celebrated her 18th birthday in Belgium. When we returned, I started working for the airline and turned 20.. We traveled for six weeks, driving our Westphalia camper, which we picked up at a factory in Germany. I had never travelled that long without my family. My dad, he trusted me. He made assumptions about me, which I was able to fulfill. When my dad gave us the gift, he said, “You’ve got to work to earn spending money for your trip. So, I got you a job as a front desk clerk in a new hotel in Yellowknife. I went to work in Yellowknife, saved all the money I earned and used it for travelling expenses for my sister and me.

Ceuster: [Laughing].

Foster: My dad gave me a single envelope which contained the bill of sale for the van, the insurance, the flight tickets, a woman’s phone number and that was it. . He said, “The van  is at a Volkswagen factory somewhere near Hanover.” 

“You are going to fly from Edmonton to Amsterdam. My insurance agent’s sister lives in Amsterdam. He told her that you’re coming. Get ahold of her; she will help you a little.”  That is all he told me.  We were driving to pick up my sister from her last exam from high school. Then we drove straight to the airport so we could catch our plane. I said, “Dad, what do I do when I get there?” [Laughing]

Ceuster: [Laughing].

Foster: “I have to contact this lady. Then what?” He said, “It is your holiday, kid.Do whatever you want, but just make sure you take care of your sister.” That is all he told me. 

Ceuster: Now, people can get five years for that. [Laughing] 

Foster: We flew to Amsterdam. We had to figure out how to get from the airport to the city and meet up with this lady. I will tell the whole story but  it is getting too late and we must go to bed. I phoned her. She said, “It is good you are here.”

Jacobsen: [Laughing]. 

Foster: “It is 6 a.m., and I must go to work. I won’t be done until 7 o’clock tonight.” We travelled 12 hours. Now, we have to wait another 12 hours. We are in this strange city. [Laughing] What do we do? We figured it out. What you were talking about when you said naive, we trusted everybody. The Dutch lady did help us. A kid from Canada whose sister was a flight attendant on our flight was at the airport. He was travelling and ran out of money. His sister brought money. He befriended us and gave us some tips.

‘Go to VVV or the tourist information centre at every central station,’ we learned that and stuff. The German people were nice to us. We brought six pieces of luggage with us. We didn’t know. [Laughing] We were carrying all this luggage because we had to carry our sleeping bags, camping gear and things like that. The German people looked at us getting on these trains with all our bags as if we were nuts.

We wandered all over Europe naive, like you wouldn’t believe. We picked up hitchhikers, drove them, left people with our Volkswagen van, the key and passports and went off with these Italian guys we just met on the beach; no harm came. We had a good time. Something could’ve happened. We could’ve lost everything. Just trusting and believing, we had no idea what we were doing. We met many people who guided and helped us during the six weeks of travelling. I looked after my sister. So, when you said naive, it reminded me of that trip because we were quite naive and extremely trusting because we assumed that everyone had good intentions, like us!. 

An interesting thing is that a classmate of mine from school went to Europe  in September that same year. He bought a motorcycle in England to use for transportation. Two weeks after he was there, he was mugged. His motorcycle was stolen. All his money was stolen. He had to come home. Our experience was so different. Crazy, huh? Anyway, you guys have to get up early. Are you staying with Scott?

Ceuster: No, I am going back to Vancouver. 

Jacobsen: I have two interviews. We will see if she is up. She is constantly travelling and giving talks. She is based in Kyiv. She went from New York to Rome and then went every few days to a new country with a very high-demand schedule. The other one is that he is in the war zone, but his money might run out. I will send some to them and other charities. 

Foster: When are you going (to Ukraine)?

Jacobsen: [Laughing] I have mouth surgery on November 22nd in the morning. Then I will go straight to the airport. 

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