Bibiána Balanyi on Mensa and IQ

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal (Unpublished)

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2021/01/14

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: How did you first find out about high IQ societies and Mensa or particularly your own level of giftedness?

Bibiána Balanyi: I always had the internal feeling in the school when I was young that I’m not that stupid. I was faster than the others, I immediately understood what the teacher was talking about and I really didn’t need to learn or to study too much and if I was listening to the teacher in school, I could memorize what he or she was saying. I’m very happy with that because I could use my free time for everything else. So, I didn’t have to sit with the books and learn and study and do homework, etc. I could read and go out and be with friends and have all kinds of hobbies. I always loved puzzles and intelligence test and things like that, of course, there was no real possibility to take one because it was not common. When you go to the psychologist for an IQ test as a as a child, you are either deemed to be very bad cognitive ability person and you have problems, so that is why you are sent to the psychologist to measure your IQ or if you have a IQ but you are not a problematic child you won’t get send to the to the psychologist. So, you have no way to find out.

Actually, I just felt that I’m faster than others and maybe I have better comprehension than the fellow people in the school. I was already at the University when the news of Mensa started to come to Hungary so to say. I was reading something somewhere that there is a Mensa with the top IQ people who are very smart and etc. I was always feeling of course I want to be a member of it because it is most probably beyond reach but it would be nice to try myself and take the IQ test to see how I can perform. At the University I saw an announcement that there is a Hungarian Mensa already; it was 1993. In that year Mensa Hungary has been established and they had an advertisement at the University that it is possible to take the IQ test and I went there with one of my friends, also girl and we believed that surely, we won’t succeed but anyway its worth a try. It was guaranteed that only the person taking the test knows about the results. So, there was no problem that others will know that how stupid I am. So, I was free and happy to take the test. 

I was very tired after a big party and I haven’t slept enough and it was all kinds of problems but at that time it was not frequent to have the opportunity to take the Mensa test; it was one time per year or something. So, we really had to catch the opportunity. After about two weeks I received the results. I was going to the cinema with my boyfriend then, and I opened the envelope at a cinema and I was jumping and saying, “What?  Successful… Oh, this impossible,” and then it was written that I can join Mensa if I want which I of course did immediately. So, in 1994 first of January I started my Mensa membership and at that time Mensa Hungary was quite small about 150-200 members as it was a starting group and soon the volunteers working there could make friends and make good activities. Funny enough that I don’t know how but somehow it happened that we had elections for the national board and it’s very typical that males are in the national board because men love to fight for positions and be on the forefront and be the leader and tell anyone else what to do and how to do it. At that time, it was very controversial in the national board, I don’t know if there is the English expression but the alpha male; so, everyone wanted to be the alpha and a board of nine alpha males was not really working and there was a elections for the Hungarian national board.

I don’t know why other people told me “You should try, maybe you should be on the board. It would be good to have at least one woman there” I said okay, maybe I can try. I had no really big ambitions but maybe I can do the something beneficial for Mensa, I can and help my friends and the volunteers. So, I was elected to the board of nine; eight alpha males and me, the only girl, I was 25. So, I was young and the only girl and funny enough that the males could not agree on who would be the chair because there were fractions like “I don’t want him as chair, I don’t want that as chair,” and finally some of them said, “Okay, what about Bibiána be the chair?” And everybody said, “Okay, we’re fine with that,” and it was funny that I became the chair at the age of 25 as the only woman on the board and it worked out so well that I stayed and was reelected many times and I spent some nine years as national chair. 

I think the alpha males believed that it will be very easy for them to control me and influence me from the background and it somehow turned out that it was not like that. I was the Hungarian national chair I think four times which makes about 10 years in total. It was not 10 years in a block but it was part by then Mensa Hungary was growing to 1,000 members. So, it was quite a huge development effort and as national chair, all the national chairs go to the so called IBD meeting which is the International Board of Directors. The national chairs of each Mensa countries plus the international board meet once a year. So, I had the opportunity to participate in these meetings once a year. I participated in 10 of them and there I could collect experiences and information and knowledge how the international level would work and I was thinking first that what I did in development for Hungarian national Mensa, maybe that can be useful for others and I could be a good international officer. 

So, I started to run for international director of development and I did not really believe that I will be elected because I came from Hungary; who cares, Hungary is small and the international directors are mostly from United States and United Kingdom because they have 50,000 members and 30,000 members while Hungary has 1,000 members. There is a big contrast but surprisingly enough, the members elected me. So, I had two terms as the Director of development. Then I took some break again. I was a simple member again and then I had the ambition, so to say, to try the international chair knowing that I have zero chance practically because I’m not American or English and not the native speaker and I’m young and not the international chair type of person but my program so to say was to bring Mensa closer to the young people because it is always a problem especially for Mensa organizations which have been existing for 50,60,70 years that people get older and older and they cannot speak to young people easily. It is very important to bring in the young so that they can grow older within Mensa.

So, my plan was to make international Mensa more open for the young and I also wanted to create and deliver an international website because I was believing it was unworthy to the high IQ Society how it looked at; it was an awful aesthetic page and although it was not among the job description of the international chair to create an international website, I was believing that maybe as chair I will have, so to say, the power and the resources to do something for the international website and make the international level much more visible and have a corporate identity and a visual identity. I’m a professional translator in my non-Mensa life and I’m also a PR expert. So, I was believing that maybe those skill set could be interesting for international Mensa and for other national groups as well and to my greatest surprise, I was elected to be the international chair. So, I had two terms; four years in total as international chair. Currently I’m an ex international chair because Björn from Sweden took over this role and I’m ex or past director of the development and past international chair. So, sorry for the long answer but that is how I found myself from 20-25 years old; youngest Hungarian and maybe youngest other Mensa National chair ever to the youngest international chair ever. 

Jacobsen: To clarify on one phrase: the terms for international chair of international chair mentioned in international Mensa, its terms are four years each or two years each?

Balanyi: Internationally, two years. 

Jacobsen: So, you’re there for four years.

Balanyi: From this year, it will be three years but we can say two years per turn and as far as national groups are concerned, some Mensa groups have one year, two years, three years, or even five years I think as a term but the majority is two years. So, we can say two or three, something like that. I had two years terms on the international level. 

Jacobsen: If you’re looking at the statistics of membership for international Mensa now; if you’re talking about 50,000 members for American Mensa, 30,000 for British Mensa, 1,000 for Hungary along with the other small states.

Balanyi: Now, the Hungarian membership figure has grown to 4,000. My international chair status was such a big hit and the national board was working very nicely and there are very active and very good Hungarian volunteers. So, the Hungarian Mensa grew from my 1000 to 2,000 and then 3,000. So, it’s about 4,000 now. 

Jacobsen: So, how many members are in international Mensa now because I have seen various figures? I know it’s above 130,000. However, I don’t know how much above. 

Balanyi: I think the latest data was 145,000.

Jacobsen: That’s incredible!

Balanyi: Yes. Unfortunately, maybe it should not be mentioned, it will be mentioned by the English work or the American but I think American Mensa could maintain the figures around 50,000 but the English Mensa experienced small decrease but we have 46 national groups and I, as a director of development, if it is allowed a little bit to praise myself, to say I was very active as director of development. I assisted some 15 national groups in their development status upgrades. So, there are newer national groups under formation and fortunately they can increase their membership figures just like the Hungarian one. Development work is really essential, so, overall international Mensa membership is growing and growing and I’m happy to see that more young people are coming in. So, the rate of younger people is also increasing. Even if we had really big problems with the pandemic because there are two crucial issues making Mensa work; one is the social programs, the gatherings being together and the other is attracting new people and have them testing.

Now, the pandemic put all social gatherings and being together absolutely impossible in certain countries and it is also very hard to find new people. So, I was hoping for Mensa to be able to overcome the difficulties of 2020 but still fortunately, the membership figure did not go down. It’s sort of stagnating or a slightly increase can be spotted. 

Jacobsen: Certainly, I mean 2020 was an interesting period, especially just the transition to online activities for example, the special interest groups and other programs that international Mensa provides. 

Balanyi: If you cannot offer programs and social gatherings, you cannot provide the intellectual stimulating environment members are looking for. So, it’s not easy thing. 

Jacobsen: This is one of the few things that I’ve heard very consistently about Mensa that when people join, they understand that they’ve gone through the filtration process of taking an intelligence test and performing in the 998^th percentile or above in cognitive rarity. So, when they go to an event or when they’re dialoguing online with someone, they understand everyone is very bright. So, they don’t need to talk about their IQ or other things like that because that’s already been affirmed and so there’s a culture of just “Okay, what are we interested about now? Are we interested in Star Trek? Are we interested in politics? Are we interested in knitting,” these sorts of things and they join those groups. It’s just finding a place where people can comfortably talk at their own level without having to talk down than their level or have to self-inflate based on ‘my IQ is —’ In fact actually, Björn, in his interview with me he said, “We don’t want it to become a thing where it’s… well my IQ is bigger than your IQ, says no it’s not, oh yes, it is” You don’t want it to become this sort of competitive thing.

Balanyi: In my experience, at least I can talk about Hungarian Mensa because primary I belong to Hungarian Mensa. Even if while I’m international officer, I belong to my national Mensa, that is how it’s going to be. So, Björn belongs to the Swedish Mensa, etc. So, I have the most experience from my national Mensa. Once you jump over that certain part, from that point on it’s not so interesting anymore because you are among people who are equally smart. In that case, it is not a topic anymore. Everyone has the same level. What here in this respect can be important is that for many people who are not so lucky with their family or who are not so lucky with their working environment like me; I was very lucky with the family and working environment, it was not a problem for me. 

Many Mensa member struggled with the experience that they felt alone and they felt that they are surrounded with stupid people. So, they had to keep explaining everything and it was very hard and cumbersome for them to get along with others and to find their place in the work at workplace where you may not say to the boss that he or she is stupid. So, for many Mensa members, joining Mensa is like homecoming or coming to a safe haven where they don’t have to prove anymore that they are smart or they don’t have to discuss with stupid people about stupid things but they can concentrate on common pastime activities and hobbies and all kinds of discussions and they can engage in programs and they can find friends. There is a Latin saying that goes similis simili gaudet, I don’t know how to pronounce that in English but it means similar people are looking for similar people and enjoy the company of similar people. That I think is very important. 

In Mensa, they can be as fast as they want. Outside Mensa, they always have to think about things like, “Am I speaking slowly enough? Am I explaining the things good enough so that others can follow me and others can come with me?” In Mensa it’s not a problem, you can speak very fast. Many members are speaking quite fast and you don’t need to explain things and sometimes it happens that you start the sentence and somebody else is completing the sentence because everyone is on the same page and it can be a relieving feeling. It’s a good feeling for the those who were not lucky enough before to have that experience in their own environment. One of the Mensa members, a female member, she was so funnily summarizing this up. She said, “I love it in Mensa but what I love in Mensa the most is that I can be as stupid as I want,” because in Mensa as a woman, she was not required anymore to prove that she’s able to do that or that she’s smart enough. In Mensa, in that respect you can be more relaxed. 

Jacobsen: We talked a bit about this. So, when I was interviewing LaRae Bakerink from American Mensa about all sorts of things, one thing that came up was the membership of demographics for American Mensa which is 2:1, men to women. What are some of the reasons for that and what are some nuances that someone like me who’s a lay person just may not know? 

Balanyi: Sometimes people just don’t come to the point when they take the test. So, sometimes they need some shock or gross experience. Some maybe a teacher or the boss was telling something bad and then think, “Okay, I don’t let myself to push down and I need some kind of a confirmation that I’m not stupid.” Many people just go and take the test to demonstrate for themselves and for others that they are not that stupid. So, it is a self-confidence boosting something that they feel maybe insecure of their own cognitive abilities and they need the proof that they are right or they are wrong. Some other people just take the test out of pure curiosity, they are interested. Actually, people are interested in each other’s and their own intelligence it seems. 

So, intelligence is quite popular in this sense and I always used to say good news is that everyone has intelligence and everyone has this feature. So, it can be tested and you learn something about yourself if you take the IQ test. It may be in line with what you have been thinking about yourself or it may be just the opposite but it is always fun to learn something about yourself. Many people take the test not just to be able to join Mensa but they are curious about their IQ and they don’t have to go to the psychologist to do that. They can go to Mensa and now they have a certificate saying that your IQ is this and that. There is another saying that IQ is the thing that is distributed in the population in the most fair and rightful way or most even or fair way because each and every person believes that he or she received more of it than the others. So, everybody is happy with the fair distribution of the IQ because everyone believes that he or she has more of it than the others in this respect.

Jacobsen: And one thing I really like about Mensa international and a couple other societies is the fact that they only use proctored mainstream intelligence tests which have been scientifically made reliable and valid over decades and decades of development to make sure they are measuring an actual scientific construct or psychological construct called general intelligence. 

Balanyi: The integrity of testing is key to the Mensa society. So, again there are so many people who want to make money on intelligence. There are millions of IQ tests. You can learn your IQ in 30 minutes if you pay $20. 

Jacobsen: Yeah, nothing suspicious there.

Balanyi: Actually, with those tests, the best measurement of your IQ is whether or not you pay that money but otherwise it’s not a psychological construct of a bunch of puzzles put together with any particular scientific knowledge. So, yes, Mensa has been very keen to use exclusively the scientific product of psychologists. If you take the Mensa test, you can be sure that your IQ is measured and not something else is measured like your naivety paying money or something. And again, it is also a fundamental thing that Mensa is not allowed to make money on testing. The testing fee is only for covering the costs associated with the test. Mensa is living on membership fees. So, from somewhere it has to have money to be able to provide programs and administration and all that kind of stuff. It is actually quite a big problem for Mensa in my eyes that with the age of the internet, these fake IQ tests are proliferating and it is impossible to stop them. 

What we can do is to advertise our test and advertise Mensa admission test as something that is reliable and scientific but of course there are so many websites trying to make money on IQ that this is really impossible. People don’t really know; they just say see an IQ test and take it. Sometimes these fake sites use the Mensa name and we have big problems in fighting them and closing those pages down but if you proceed on one website the next time another be set up. So, the internet in this sense is quite problematic. The thing is that the psychological tests Mensa is using are the products of scientific entities and to generate a reliable and standardized IQ test, you need several years and millions of dollars literally. So, the number of reliable tests is very limited but again as I already told you, you may ask Kristoff about that, there is an initiative in Mensa. 

Mensa Hungary with Kristoff has developed an adaptive test which is used for online pre-test. It is provided for free; you can try yourself before taking the admission test. It’s an adaptive test, it means it’s not the fixed set of items in it but it is changing based on how you respond to the items and therefore it cannot be stolen and there is no possibility to publish the good answer in advance. So, you cannot learn it and you cannot have the key and this one is already working in a number of countries. Hungary has this adaptive practice test for sure and maybe I think Norway also has a practice test online, not much but some and there is a major international project to generate an online and adaptive admission test for Mensa International but it takes time and it takes money which is a huge amount. So, under money you have to think about a rather big number. So, this is going on at the moment but again pandemic prevented real progress. As a summary, Mensa is using only reliable psychological products.

Jacobsen: The fact that you’ve covered 145,000 people with a rarity of 1 in 50, I mean you’ve reliably given the scientific validity of the constructs or the test that you’re using or have developed as in Mensa Hungary, you covered 72.5 million in terms of the rarity internationally as an organization which is really an extraordinary feat to have accomplished. So, what are the projected 2020 goals for Mensa International and Mensa Hungary?

Balanyi: 2020, nothing. 2021 maybe. [Laughs]

Jacobsen: No, 2020 to 2029; the decade, like what discussions have there been about what things to develop, things to start getting online, things to further have online in terms of the activities, the resources, and the provisions of Mensa International.

Balanyi: I don’t really want to answer that question because currently I have no office. It is up to the international chair to have vision for the future. As already mentioned, as international chair, I had the vision to make Mensa more attractive to the young, to get more and more online, to be present in the social media, and to communicate much better not only with the Mensa members but also with the 98%; so, to be visible. We also started with the communications officer app and Mensa International Facebook page. That was also on my agenda to move to the social media space because I think at that time Mensa International, although being a very old and reputable society of gentlemen but on the other hand, based on those traditions and not forgetting those traditions, I believe Mensa International should be more open and move to the online technologies and online communication, etc. So, at that time my vision concentrated on the young people and moving to more visible communication and involving website and social media. 

I don’t want to speak on behalf of Björn; Björn was surely telling about his concept. As an immediate past and past director of development person and somebody who has really a heart for Mensa; because nobody ever questioned that in Mensa and other officers and National chairs always used to say that Bibiana has a real heart for Mensa, so, as a person who has a heart for Mensa, I would say there is still more open room to communicate and continue that work in making international Mensa visible for the national countries, make international Mensa visible for the individual members because the individual members are much more associated with their national groups in the first place and only then a second, the international level comes in. I think communication should be continued to the wider public in my opinion to show people that it is fun being in Mensa and it is good thing to be a part of and even if you cannot belong to Mensa, there are a number of programs or things that you can follow or you can share or maybe use Mensa as a model in your life. Even if you cannot be part of Mensa, you can be brought somehow closer to Mensa by information by presenting the people there by presenting and pursuing the goals and objective that are stipulated in in the constitution; intelligence, giftedness, etc.

So, I think it is still crucial and will be crucial to communicate in that way in the future in the in the next five years or the next 10 years. I still believe that it is also crucial and effort should not be stopped to make Mensa visible and attractive for the young people because we need more and more new people, fresh people, young people with different ideas, with different input, and with different lifestyles. The more varied Mensa is and the more different people and different types of personalities are concentrated in Mensa, the better because the bigger diversity the better. Again, there is a lot to do in taking Mensa to continents and countries where there is no Mensa at the moment. So, I think these are still important things and as they were important things and will be important things in the future. Mensa is a volunteer organization and I think it is also important to show the people outside of Mensa that volunteering can be a can be a good thing. So, you work, you have your family life but again in your free time you can do something good for others and you can go to a charity; there are lots of charity organizations. You can donate things to certain groups but again as in Mensa, you can just work for free in your free time so that you and your friends and other people feel good and learn something and have information and learn something about the world and I think that is also very good to promote the volunteer character of Mensa.

I used to say with the young people that my objective was to show them that there are several ways of spending free time other than being on the phone, being on the chat, or taking drugs or have alcohol, and playing the PlayStation because sometimes I have the feeling that especially young people nowadays don’t really know how to spend their time and they are often bored. Whereas, in Manza it is impossible to be bored. So, I have not a minute of free time. I cannot set aside a minute just to doing nothing, it’s impossible for me. I think this could be shown and demonstrated to young people that it is a good thing if you are doing something you are learning something all the time. I used to say you are not high on drugs, you are not high on alcohol but you are high on information and people and I think it’s much better than being high on alcohol.

Jacobsen: Yeah, although that might be a tough sell for young people sometimes, first year college students, this sort of thing. I think it’s is very good because it provides an alternative for brighter young people to just find something else to do with their free time especially their free mental time because most people most of the time are working in jobs or interacting with people who do not have much of an interest in intellectual activity. It’s just not interesting to them or so to their kind of range for instance.

Balanyi: The intellectual challenges can be really energizing and I also wanted to prove that intelligence is sexy.

Jacobsen: There are some movements, I think. Some people are trying to make intelligence sexy, so to speak. 

Balanyi: It is actually not something boring and outdated concept, it can be fun and intelligence can be used in each and every field of your life. Even if you do something very simple like you drive a car and you go somewhere to a place you don’t know and you haven’t been there before; you need to look at the map, you need to find your orientation, you have to drive a car and if you have intelligence as well maybe you can listen to music in the meantime or thinking about interesting natural phenomenon on the way or you can learn something in between. So, I say that intelligence is a tool that can be used everywhere. Of course, it should not be as big as inventing skyrocket or something or anything scientific but intelligence can be a good tool if you encounter any kind of problem and you want to find a solution and you want to find a solution fast. Then, you use your intelligence again. 

So, I think intelligence is very interesting and fascinating in this way and in Mensa, although we are not discussing intelligence and IQ and IQ test all the time, actually we never discuss that once we are in the society but Mensa opens good opportunities you would not have if not in Mensa. To meet professors, to meet scientists, to learn every day, to meet people who are expert in something or visit any place of interest, or find people who have the same interests. I think it’s very valuable in Mensa and spending the time together with those who have similar interests and the ones thinking equally fast than you also has a side effect of finding friends.

Jacobsen: Also, for some, they can find a partner. 

Balanyi: Yes, exactly.

Jacobsen: Your husband is also part of Hungary Mensa, isn’t it?

Balanyi: Yes.

Jacobsen: So, I’m where one of the specialist interest groups is based around singles looking to mingle, so to speak. So, this is also another common thing not only friendships not only intellectual challenges and community or just simply a sense of belonging or validation of their hunches about their own intelligence, it’s also a place people go to apparently date and potentially marry.

Balanyi: Yes. Some people say openly “I go to Mensa because I want to have a smart husband or a smart wife.” Some others don’t say this so explicitly but anyway it is fun because it is not a surprise and I don’t think this is a bad thing because to be able to spend months and years or even decades with the same person, I think it is essential that you are on the same page and you are of the same type at least intellectually. I personally do not want to live with someone who is boring. So, yeah it should not be denied, it is very good although it’s not the primary objective of Mensa to work as a dating company but it can happen that you end up with a wife or a husband there.

Jacobsen: I’d be curious to know if there’s like people that have on the side, like apart from the main organization, have started meeting among younger people like Mensa Tinder or something like this, like a hookup app. I don’t know if that would be a thing that people have started as well because if they’ve started singles groups looking to marry, dating apps or some form, I would imagine that there would be kind of these one-night stand apps as well the people just started up, I don’t know.

Balanyi: I don’t know about this. Surely there is the youth, for young people and Generation Y and other kinds of generations also have their programs. They go to summer camps and drink and dance and be happy together. So, you can do whatever you want and what I particularly love in Mensa is that you can have whatever peculiar interest or hobby, you will surely find two or three or 20 people who are interested in the same and you can do it together. 

Jacobsen: When I look at and also back to that original line of questioning was around the tests themselves, for those who don’t know or may know I mean the main tests that are considered the gold standard in intelligence testing have been Wechsler Intelligence Scales and the Stanford-Binet Intelligence Scales but when I was talking to LaRae Bakerink, she was noting upwards of 200 tests are accepted for admissions purposes to American Mensa. Is it similar in Hungary Mensa? 

Balanyi: I don’t want to really comment on that one because I don’t want to interfere with US Mensa and the best to ask about this would be Kristoff, the ISP because he knows a lot. US and UK Mensa have much bigger pool of IQ test to choose from mostly because the IQ tests are developed by English speaking people and English-speaking countries and for example, if you want to use a test for Hungary, you need Hungarian standards. It should either be language free or if language is involved you have to generate a completely new test because it is not always easy to translate one test to the other language because in that minute it won’t be the same. So, there are language free tests and there are more international tests which can be used by other countries because they have been standardized there. Of course, US, UK, and Canada are in a much better position because they have a bigger selection. I don’t think it should be 200 or so because it would be surprising but maybe they have 20 or 30 reliable tests to choose from whereas Hungary or Finland or South Africa can choose from one or two. 

All kinds of testing things should be asked to from Kristoff. I think he will be happy to be available and I will say a couple of good words to him because I’m not a psychologist. I’m actually not allowed to speak about the details of testing. All I know is from the national psychology supervisory psychologist because I’m not an expert in that one. So, whatever I say it’s my opinion only and it’s not reliable because I’m not psychologist. 

Jacobsen: What have we not covered? We’ve covered Hungary, we’ve covered international, we covered some of the fun things that are done, we’ve covered some of the demographics.

Balanyi: Maybe one sentence I’d love to say that you can insert somewhere or don’t use is about reflecting on being international chair and surely Björn was saying similar things but I myself, I’m a translator and I speak a couple of languages and I think the members put their valuable trust in me as the international chair maybe because they believe that being a translator and a person speaking several languages, I have a better understanding for different cultures and different people. Mensa is multicultural and you have to find the common language with a person coming from Asia, from Africa, from this community or that community and I think I’m an open personality and I can get along quite well with various age groups and various cultural groups and very various personalities. 

So, I really felt honored by the fact that members from many countries were voting for me and as an international chair I could be the face of this organization and the chief representative and sometimes a mother, sometimes a representative, sometimes a servant to the organization but these roles maybe could be unified in me. Maybe young people had a good interface to me and older people also had an interface to me because I’m something in between. It can be possible. To the other topics you were talking about, I always used to say that intelligence is a common language. I’m speaking several languages but intelligence is really one. It is like a common language, so if I meet someone from Madagascar or Bolivia or Russia or Finland or whoever, and we are also from same organization from Mensa, we can talk to each other as if knowing each other for several years although it is the first time I am meeting this person. So, that is why I say intelligence is a common language. There is something common in Mensa members although they are very different. They are young and old, nice and not so nice, happy and unhappy, employed or unemployed, and this kind of religion they have that kind of religion they have, they have millions of political and ideological convictions. So, they are very different but still there is something common in them and it seems that this common feature which is intelligence actually, that is the only common feature of this whole group of these 145,000 people. There might be something in it bringing people together. So, we can talk to each other as old friends and I love that in Mensa because it gives such a good experience for me and I simply love that, not only as a translator but also as a former international chair. We can get along quite well and we can share the common language and the common interest within a minute.

Jacobsen: Maybe I can incorporate that as something as final feelings or thoughts in conclusion. 

Balanyi: Yeah, you can add this wherever you want. 

Jacobsen: Yes, I think it’s good. I mean those are the kinds of things that are the less hard to make tangible the social media of Mensa international and facilitating a multicultural feel to it. You’re probably right where one part of it is just having that polyglot ability skill as well as being a personality who takes that polyglotism as a means to understand other cultures, not only what words other people speak but how they speak them in their culture.

Balanyi: Yes, because you have to speak to others, not just language but you have to approach completely differently. You contact someone from Japan in a different way than somebody from Spain or Scandinavia or Russia, for example. It’s not the same or India; it was fun to work with them as director of development. How you approach the local volunteers, it was completely different in India for example or in Japan or let’s say Bosnia. Sometimes it works better if you are very young and cool and social media and chatting around and whatever. And with a Japanese person you have to be very polite and slow and you have to be very humble and very official. In India, they just love to have the feeling that somebody from the big international something was reaching out to them and somebody is interested in them and they also appreciate it very much. 

India with its over one billion people, it’s one country or it’s not, like for an Indian from Punjab and from Kashmir and from Goa or various parts, they don’t feel associated with India. They feel associated with their region. There are millions of languages and cultures within India and it seems that I could be so successful with Mensa India volunteers because I was saying right at the beginning that I completely understand that you are so varied in different cultures, tribes, religions, habits, etc. Even the food you are eating its completely different u here and there in India. I see the big differences and I accept them but under Mensa International, you are one country. So, I told them we have to somehow bring this rich and colorful and diverse and varied construct that is India, bring together under one Mensa India and we know that it is so different and so varied and so rich but we also have to unify it. The fact that they saw me as someone understanding their everyday in that respect helped to bring them to unification and it was really a big feat I think for me as director of development, at least as big as delivering the international website as international chair. So, I think if you want to be a good international chair or you want to be a good director of development or actually a good international director, you have to have understanding to different culture and people because only then they can accept you as the main representative. That is why I say I’m so happy and I was so honored, I literally felt honored that so many different countries put their trust in me and said “I accept Bibiana. Bibiana can represent us for sure.” It’s just such a good feeling. So, as a Mensa volunteer you work in your free time and you don’t get paid. Even the international board is not paying you. 

Jacobsen: And you did this for 13 years? Nine as National and four is international?

Balanyi: Yes. Mensa is my hobby actually. Sometimes this kind of appreciation and trust from the members can be energizing and gives a reward in the job you are doing?

Jacobsen: What books do you read?

Balanyi: I have read all the books. [Laughs] The only genre I don’t really consume is criminal novels.

Jacobsen: Murder mysteries? 

Balanyi: Yes, murder mystery books, I’m not so interested in that but otherwise I read everything. I love literature, science, and whatever. The problem is that I don’t have too much time to read especially with Mensa. I spend my time with Mensa, so I have no time to read. I used to read millions of books when I was a student and I have several thousand books here at home. Actually, this is the most expensive hobby to have books because you have to buy furniture to store them. I love my library actually but it consumes time and space and I also collect antique books. So, I love books in all forms and I’m an old outdated person because I don’t read from Kindle or electronic books. I don’t read e-books. I read the old paper books. So, I’m an old lady who is yesterday’s person.

Jacobsen: I mean that fits because when I look at your biography it says here there was a particular person named Béla Balanyi who was an archivist and if you have thousands of books, you have an archive. So, it seems to be running in the family. 

Balanyi: That’s my grandfather, Béla Balanyi. He was an archivist in Hungary. I also have books, not as many as I would love to have. If there would be no constraints on the size of the flat, I would have even a bigger library.

Jacobsen: There’s one last question I had because basically the purpose of interviewing Jennifer Wise, LaRae, and yourself was to get more women’s voices from the high IQ communities within the series because it’s dude heavy. It’s man heavy in terms of interviews and I think your voices are authoritative because you’ve held some of the highest offices in those communities and those societies. So, I think it’s very important to get those voices out there too. One last thing which is that someone did mention, it might have been Monika Orski, a former Mensa Sweden chair, and she was mentioning to me I think that there is or was like a separate group that women in the high IQ communities made for themselves, maybe it was a special interest group or it was a conversational group. It’s kind of like so they can filter but they can have a special interest group where it’s kind of a space for them to just be among sisters, so to speak with similar intellectual level. Do you know anything about that? 

Balanyi: I know about one Facebook group for female Mensa and I joined that one but I’m not very active in that one because I really have not much time left but for me it has never been a big issue being among women. I’m very comfortable being among men also. There is this group I think it is international but maybe I can imagine that some national groups also have women only groups but on the other hand the basic rules for… say that you cannot exclude anyone. So, if it is a female group, it cannot exclude males. They cannot exclude at least in theory; they cannot exclude all people because in Mensa everyone has the same rights. I heard about this group or there are groups like that. I don’t have such an interesting opinion about that one. 

I’m not the feminist type. For me, it’s not so interesting, I always used to say I believe in meritocracy. I believe in in skills and abilities and whether or not it’s from a woman or a man, it’s secondary for me. I mean it’s not interesting for me. Of course, the media loves the fact that females lead the biggest think tanks of the world because that is of course inherently interesting because as you put it, it is the man heavy organization but in Mensa, I really enjoy being a woman because at least in Hungarian Mensa but also on international level I have the experience that I am completely equal with the males. So, it is not an issue if you are a woman or a man. My skills and knowledge are appreciated irrespective of my gender. On the other hand, I can still receive the little nice things like “Oh your skirt is very nice today” or “Oh you look very nice” or “What a lovely earring you have” It’s a good thing that sometimes you can feel like a woman. 

So, if I should summarize, in Mensa I can be a woman. I can lead the man. Nobody makes a problem out of it but I’m not forced to be like a man if you know what I mean. I can be a woman and that’s all and I can enjoy that status. So, I’m happy with it and I only had good experiences with that one but I don’t come from a Scandinavian culture for example, where it can happen that if a man says “Oh your hair is so nice,” then the woman maybe goes to the court because of being harassed. [Laughs] I’m a little bit old-fashioned in that one I would say. I’m not the feminist type, I really love the setup that everyone plays accordingly; the men act like men, the women act like women and everyone can be as he or she wants to be freely. 

Jacobsen: So, a fair statement to that would be the men are men and the women are women but there are many ways for men to be men and there are many ways for women to be women.

Balanyi: I think the Mensa males here are very polite to women and at the same time if it comes to a discussion on something because Mensa members can discuss a lot of things; Mensa members can discuss about this pan for half an hour. So, it often happens that Mensa members love to discuss for the sake of discussing and then there is a fierce discussion and, in the end, they go together and have a beer and everything is fine. I wanted to say my experience; women are equal, they can be board members, they can be leaders easily and male members have been very kind and nice to me saying “Oh you look great to today” or “Oh that was good” but on the other hand, there is one exception to that because if there is discussion, Mensa men or boys don’t care if you are woman or a man. They will shout at you and say Fuck you even if you’re a woman. That would not be allowed to woman or not nice to a woman. In discussion, it doesn’t matter if you are a boy or a girl; you will be equally shouted at but out of discussion if there is a program or we are together or we go to a restaurant and eat something, I think Mensa males are very nice and polite and does not force you as a woman to act like a man. You don’t have to. Of course, it helps if you are a little bit down to the point and more self-confident because then you are easier to be followed but also women have their tricks to convince people and can play with their tools to make men do what they want. I mean you should not deny that; that is a fact. 

Jacobsen: So, with news flash, so women have other tools to make men do what they want them to do; when did this happen? 

Balanyi: It’s a women’s secret. You should not know that but yeah it works. 

Jacobsen: Yeah so, I wholeheartedly agree.

Balanyi: We can convince men to do or act as you want and they won’t even notice that they have been manipulated. It is very helpful to lead men. We always have to care about the feeling that they invented the bill even though it was you who made them to invent but it is funny.

Jacobsen: I think H. L. Mencken talked about this a bit. He wrote a book called In Defense of Women and it was a very comical take with some unique observations. So, I agree.

Balanyi: Again, I’m sure you heard a completely different opinion from Monika who comes from a Scandinavian environment. There, it’s completely different.

Jacobsen: I ran this experiment. So, I’ve been trying different experiments with interviews and one of them I did was with a Norwegian group of men; Tor Arne Jørgensen, Eivind Olsen (Chair of Mensa, Norway), and Erik Haereid; an actuarial scientist from Norway. So, I got them together talking about both; kind of the mainstream societies like Mensa and so on and then also some of the alternative testing community that Tor is part of or Eric Haereid is part of. 

Then I tried another experimental group which was women of the high range and one of them included Monica. I think it was in just after she finished her tenure ship as Chair of Mensa Sweden. Then there was Sandra Schlick, who’s part of the high-range test taker community, she’s in Germany I believe. Third was Beatrice Rescazzi from Italy; she founded AtlantIQ Society. I asked them these kinds of questions and a colleague and friend of mine, Rick Rosner, him and his wife got some questions for me and I sent them to them as well, the kind of standard questions you might ask if you’re asking a group and it’d be things like: What are the barriers you face? Do you think that your gender has been a barrier to your acceptance with this high intelligence? Etc. 

To the point that I wanted to make, I’ve in that discussion group, so far, I have found very little overlap in any of their responses. So, it seems to be culture bound. So, here are women who are very bright and prominent and it really depends. 

Balanyi: So, from where I come from, I would say that women have the superpower to understand other person’s feelings and motivations. So, I think I have good abilities in that one, in decoding other people’s feeling and internal thoughts. And as a woman, I think I’m better at motivating other people and motivating people is especially important in a volunteer organization. So, it can be that if I as a woman go to the volunteer and I need something to be done, like somebody should take this from A to B and I need a volunteer for that, and it can happen that maybe a male Chair says “Please go there and take this there,” and the volunteer says “Yeah, okay I will do it,” but if a woman Chair says the same, “Oh, how are you today? I have a little problem here. Would you please be so kind to take this thing from A to B?” And the person says “Oh, yes course, no problem” I think there is a little difference in that one and when I’m talking about manipulating men. If they feel that they are useful, they feel that they are strong…

Jacobsen: That is very true.

Balanyi: But jokes aside, it can be very useful if you are trying to herd cats which is the saying that says managing or leading Mensa is like herding cats. So, when herding cats or my cats, it really helps a lot that as a woman I have an eye for other people’s feeling and I can motivate them and maybe that is why I could be a successful International Chair and I could be a successful director of development because I could give energy to others and convince them that they want to do this. 

Jacobsen: I think we should leave it there. I think that’s also a very charming end to the interview. So, I just want to say thank you very much not only for your time but your extended time late into the evening today.

Balanyi: Okay. Thank you too. I’m waiting for what you can compose of this. I hope that my image was not so awful and at least partially understandable and I will send you the address of Kristoff and I will suggest him that he accept your request for interview. For that, you’ll have to set aside several hours because he can talk about intelligence and it’s so interesting and he knows so much about it that it’s very interesting to listen to him. 

Jacobsen: That’s what I think needs to be done more because if I’m finding that individuals within the societies have a confusion about what is meant by various terms or tests, etc., with regards to IQ, then that means that outside people who have very little interest in high IQ societies will have many more and so I think getting the proper understanding within the communities is kind of a first step. Also, giving people the idea that there are red flags to watch out for; is this just a moneymaking scheme for one society or test maker and for others is this a democratically elected volunteer organization that has proctored tests that actually measure intelligence? There’s a range of seriousness about admission standards and Mensa and a couple others have very serious admission standards which is why they should be taken seriously.

Balanyi: Thank you very much for the interview and interest and it was a real pleasure for me to get to know you at least virtually. I hope one day we can welcome you in Mensa.

Jacobsen: Oh, that’s a wonderful compliment. Thank you. 

Balanyi: I have quite good abilities in telling who will be successful with the test and who is not. So, I would not recommend you to take the test if you would be completely stupid. 

Jacobsen: I think it’d be great.

Balanyi: I think you should try yourself and continue the interviews from the inside.

Jacobsen: I think that’d be very interesting. I’ve gotten this question a lot and this is from the range of societies from various members and they said “Well aren’t you interested?”  I said “Not right now” and I framed it. So, the co-editor of Noesis of the Mega Society, Richard May who used to be an officer in the Prometheus Society; we were corresponding recently and the way I framed it was this, so, I’ve been listening to a lot of Alan Watts and when I walked to work and so I framed it as ‘neither interest nor disinterest’ because there’s a sense of being careful that there’s not an explicit conflict of interest when doing all of these interviews, so being in the orbit of them; all the these different societies. Like I know the world intelligence network listed 84 societies. So, I’m grappling with that question right now.

Balanyi: I really have to say that many times I’m afraid of interviews because many of them are just pure waste of time because I’m talking and talking and talking. I always used to say you can never be more intelligent than the reporter.

Jacobsen: [Laughs] Yeah, you look at these articles that are written.

Balanyi: It is the reporter who will formulate the sentences and put it down. 

Jacobsen: I’ve written a couple critical comments and articles about the idea that the smartest man in the world, the smartest person in America; like, these are not serious claims. Do you remember Catharine Morris Cox in the 1910s or 20’s did studies of genius or genetics of geniuses and they never took IQ tests. I mean her work was serious but there’s even popular reportage that so and so has IQ 400 and you’re like “What?!” Or even when they look like they’re okay, IQ 160 or something, there’s no standard deviation mentioned. There’s no mention of the test that they took. It’s very frustrating, I can understand. 

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