Nicole Shasha on Being a British Lady Humanist

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): The Good Men Project

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/11/24

Nicole Shasha is a humanist from Britain, a wedding and funeral celebrant whom I met at the World Congress and General Assembly – 2023 – of Humanists International in Copenhagen, Denmark, earlier this year. She agreed to an interview, hooray! Here’s the result. 

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Okay, so, today, we are with a lady British humanist, Nicole Shasha, who I met in Copenhagen. I asked if we could interview being a lady humanist, as a lady, in Britain, as a humanist. 

Nicole Shasha: [Laughing].

Jacobsen: So, how did you come to Humanism? Was there a family background, or did you discover this as you grew up?

Shasha: So, particularly, in calling in Humanism, my family background was two different religions. My dad was Jewish. My mom was Christian. But they, in a quite liberal-minded fashion, decided to raise me and my sister by telling us about religion but not pushing us in any way. When I was about 12, I received, like many people of my age, I think, I stumbled across Richard Dawkins’ The God Delusion and became an atheist. I was always living humanist principles. I’d say 2020. It made me think about things coming across Humanism. I thought, “Oh, this is everything I love and everything I have lived since I was a theist with rationality, science, and empathy.” It was really, really cool for me. That’s how I found Humanism. I was looking for something to get involved as well. I became a big humanist and advocate.

Jacobsen: What kind of advocacy have you done? What kind of activism have you done?

Shasha: My main thing I have been doing and still do. Along with AJ, whom I believe you have already interviewed, we are the youth coordinators for the UK and part of the Humanists UK youth society. We’re Young Humanists UK, which is the name of our branch of Humanists UK. In the UK, one of our issues is the members tend to skew a bit older. There’s nothing wrong with being older. But you need younger people to represent a wider array of generations. They will be the future of Humanism. That is something AJ and I have been trying to connect with youth and youth Humanism, which they definitely do. For instance, something a lot of young people care about now is the environment. That’s a bit part of rational thought, and climate change is happening, so we should get on board with that. I am also a humanist school speaker, which is something we have here in the UK. I get invited to schools, usually primary, just by coincidence, and tell them about Humanism in the religious education curriculum. Now, the law in the UK is that non-religious viewpoints have to be taught alongside religious ones.

Jacobsen: That’s fantastic.

Shasha: I’m also, and this is the last point, a humanist celebrant. The biggest part of my advocacy. I am trained in funerals and weddings. I lead personalized ceremonies with humanists for people marrying or dying.

Jacobsen: How does one become a humanist celebrant? In Copenhagen, a big aspect of workshops and discussions was the popularity of celebrations of life and being a celebrant, and even a chaplain in the military, for Humanism. How does one become engaged, educated, and certified for that kind of advocacy?

Shasha: In the UK, it is quite a big thing we’ve got going on. I’m not quite sure how long we’ve been running it. It was a huge part of Humanists UK, which was, in the past, the British Humanist Association when it was founded 127 years ago when it was providing funerals at a time when they were primarily Christian. You can apply through Humanists UK and train through there. There are people who have been doing it for a long time and have a wealth of experience. I find it really, really meaningful and incredible. When we were in Copenhagen, there were people who wanted to be chaplains from different countries, and their organizations hadn’t got that yet. Humanism can, sometimes, get bogged down in overintellectualism, which is something I am guilty of. The real reason and the real meaning of why we are doing this and why it is important to people’s daily lives is important.

Jacobsen: What do you think could bring humanist discourse down to Earth?

Shasha: That is a really good question. I think there is nothing wrong with our lofty intellectualism on occasion. I think it is a good part of being a humanist to be thoughtful about things. I think making sure, as organizations and members of organizations, not everyone is interested in that. Even if they have what they call a humanist outlook, just being aware, ultimately, if we can get people to resonate with us, it is because we delivered humanist views at a wedding. I think that’s a really big part. Something I’ve been doing recently. I’ve been making a local community branch in a city called Leicester. We didn’t have a humanist group before. One thing that we’re trying to do is that a lot of people have lost a lot of community ties with the loss of religion. I think that’s a great shame. Focusing on community things and social elements and not having to discuss a book or philosophy or anything, tapping into people, and having friends and community and things. I try to focus on that as well.

Jacobsen: When I was on another career path outside of independent journalism, I was in three psychology labs. I was doing quite well and had all these plans. I was struck by other things and realized talents, proclivities, and interests were in another place. So, one thing those psychology labs did was have pub nights and game nights, not as a central piece, but as an item to bring everyone together. We would have our individual research projects. We’d have staff meetings for individual labs to talk about the research and get everyone on the same page about what is going on, and also introduce new members and say “Goodbye” to individuals heading off to graduate school, etc. Another item was those pub nights and game nights. A lot of people showed up to those. In fact, a lot of faculty showed up. That’s not psychology. That’s not research. But it’s an important part of bringing everything down to the ground. We ended up discussing very interesting abstract problems in the philosophy of psychology. Things like that. To your point, it’s a similar point to bringing humanists to the ground, just doing fun things together. I am aware Young Humanists International does game nights and so on. I think that’s a fantastic thing. Do the youth in Humanists UK do much the same things, especially since they’re much closer to the international group than the Philippines, Nigeria, Canada, and so on?

Shasha: Absolutely, we are, comparatively, a much closer country. Because of that, we are used to not travelling so much. But yes, because we’re not as able to do that as much as a local group, obviously, gathering everyone from around the country in one place like London. People who are outside or very far away from London are excluded. We have done that, particularly when it was a big national Humanists UK event. There was always a lecture on Darwin Day, Darwin’s birthday. Something of interest to humanists. Then there are young humanists’ socials afterwards. Absolutely, the convivial nature of having a community and hanging out and having a drink is so wonderful. In Copenhagen, we all had a great time.

Jacobsen: It was really fabulous. 

Shasha: It was really instructive. Yes, it was lovely. We weren’t just connecting over the lectures. It was being in the pubs and hanging out.

Jacobsen: One thing that comes to mind is Kacem Al Ghazzali. I was aware of him. I didn’t know him. He wasn’t even aware of me. [Laughing]

Shasha: [Laughing].

Jacobsen: So, we met at one of the pubs near the pier, I guess. It was some intense conversation about Islam and ex-Muslims, yada-yada-yada. There was a tinge of aggression. By the end of the night, we went partying. Ahmed Elbukhari was there. Ana Raquel Aquino Smith was there. Adrian Nunez was there. So, it was a Libyan, a Moroccan, a Canadian, a Peruvian, and a Brazilian going to a Latin dance club. 

Shasha: [Laughing].

Jacobsen: 4:30 in the morning, we were at some pub or other. It was the two of us. It was the last time and last place that was open in Copenhagen at that time. I believe it was a Sunday. [Laughing] By the end of it, we are in the elevator. I remember we had drunk a bit. I believe he had drunk more than me. At the end of it, he says, “Scott… I love you,” as the elevator doors shut. Those are the memories that sustain you in Singapore throughout the year. That is a memory that will definitely stick with me in meeting this person. We had a very intense conversation. Then, at the end of it, “I love you.” Those are really the bread-and-butter of a humanist life because we’re not referring to some blessing from a deity. We’re just enjoying the company of people with very different backgrounds and very different experiences.

Shasha: That’s exactly it. The fact that we’re all trying to enjoy the one life that we have. Something that I felt lucky to be involved in the international humanist community. You meet people from backgrounds of countries that I wouldn’t have otherwise: hearing about their lives, their backgrounds, whether Humanism in their countries or what their life is like. I am extremely lucky to continue to be privy to that with Humanists International. It’s those minutiae of this funny thing that happened to us. We can talk about all the grand things that we do, and they’re important. It is the little details that you remember.

Jacobsen: I grew up in a community of old women. I was raised by some old women in part. So, to me, the small little things, a new song that you really enjoy, an owl flying into your garden [Ed. actual case]. Things like that. Those make my life. I care about the big things, too. The majority of my life is around the small, thoughtful things that you happen to enjoy. What about the youth branch of Humanists UK in terms of projects that it is doing for its youth members? Are there particular things that are exciting coming and should be focused on this year or coming into next year?

Shasha: AJ and I have some things that we’re probably not ready to announce just yet, but a lot of what we’re doing is making sure our youth members are connected with the wider Humanists UK campaigns at the moment. So, for example, this weekend, AJ and I and a team of volunteers of our young humanists members have a stall at the New Scientist. They have a new show. People who are interested in science are often humanists. We are doing outreach there to get people interested in Humanism. When we describe it, people go, “Oh, I already believed that.” It is having people look at the local group to become involved, how to become a celebrant, or simply being abreast of all the young humanist things. Having spoken to some young people who turn up to the local group, it is full of people who are very old, then people might think, “This isn’t for me.” So, we work to keep people involved and in the thread of humanist thought and what people are doing.

Jacobsen: To the original topic outside of tangents, what is it like being a humanist woman in Britain? Not making you a spokesperson for all women or British humanists [Laughing].

Shasha: [Laughing].

Jacobsen: But in terms of individual experience, is there a different character to the experience in the country that has a large humanist and non-religious population, or is Christianity a large minority but not even close to a majority anymore?

Shasha: Absolutely, it is very far off. In the latest census, the majority of people say they have no religion. As a humanist and a woman, it is interesting. I’ll tackle the humanist part first. While most people are non-religious, and even people who end up having a spiritual belief are against organized religion, I think having a humanist outlook on some people is quite odd. I wouldn’t say it’s any prejudice or something like that. I know that in some countries, announcing yourself as an atheist can be quite dangerous. It’s not that. There are loads of people who end up believing superstitious things, conspiracy things, or even magical thinking. I like being, particularly as a young woman, a voice of reason and science to all things. To other people who might go to the religious side, they might think there are fairies in my garden or something. I try to get them to question that belief slightly. To be a woman humanist, I don’t think someone who is a sexist wouldn’t be a good humanist. I find that gender equality is very good. I think there is a perception among outsiders that it is a male-dominated thing. Things like science and rationality should be, but I don’t think that’s the case at all. I think there have been many cases of British humanist women throughout history who have done amazing things in carrying us forward.

Jacobsen: Would you say this is a relatively common experience and perspective among peer women? 

Shasha: I think no. I think I have most of the humanists I have worked with. I’ve never had a question with them about being a humanist woman rather than being a humanist. I suppose that’s a good thing if we do not really have to think about it.

Jacobsen: That’s a great thing if it doesn’t come up. If it was a problem, people, humanists, especially those who believe in freedom of expression, would talk about it. If it is not coming up, it is not a priority issue. Even though, for some, it may be an issue. Although, in your experience, it appears to be a non-issue.

Shasha: Absolutely, the stereotype of women is about caring and compassion. That’s a stereotype that has worked in my favour in things like the ceremonies that I do for people who are grieved. I think that is one of the sections within Humanists UK that is female-dominated as opposed to male. But yes, absolutely, we can live normally day-to-day; it’s a wonderful thing. We’re lucky for that.

Jacobsen: What do you notice in a young cohort, even, say 5-10 years, of women in Britain coming forward because they’ve experienced an even lessened influence of Christianity in their cultural experience?

Shasha: Absolutely, even when I was coming up, there was very little religious influence. I didn’t have to even believe in a religion. Among my peers, even at university, there were so few people who were truly religious. There might be some people who call themselves Christian. But they weren’t, really. They never went to church. They were it in name. Now, it’s even less. What I like about young humanists is that we get more apostates. But there tend to be very few Christian apostates. They tend to be the individuals who come from communities that are more religious in this country. As they become second and third-generation here, they still have to get a bit more connection from that when they realize that they don’t believe anymore. I think that’s important as a reason for Humanists UK’s existence. While Christianity is no longer the dominating religion, there are other ones that we need to support the people who struggle to leave.

Jacobsen: To quote Jerry Seinfeld for my last question…

Shasha: [Laughing].

Jacobsen: … “The female brain is one of the most competent and capable organs in all of the biological universe.” #girlpower…

Shasha: [Laughing].

Jacobsen: As we can see internationally in statistics, we can see this in reliable sources. The educated majority of the upcoming generations and our current cohort are women, in general, especially in developed countries. The majority of the workforce in some of these countries is increasingly becoming women, especially in key or core intellectual enterprises and areas of society: law, medicine, politics, and so on. How do you see a humanist outlook as incorporating this emancipatory progression that has been happening for centuries, arguably, or, at least, a century and a bit for women and the changing ideas of gender norms in those contexts? How does Humanism provide a healthy fit for this contemporary egalitarian society?

Shasha: I think that’s a really interesting question. I’d say Humanism, of course, has been human-focused, and the idea women and men are fundamentally equal and should be treated equally is a longstanding idea. The humanist outlook is a way to think about these things. Only through dialogue can you deconstruct the latent sexism that some people might be thinking. I have some coworkers in a previous job of mine, a non-humanist job. We had to drive a lot around in it. They were constantly saying, “Women are driving and always crashing.” All those stupid sexist jokes. This is a bit lame. Only through humanist discussion of trying to connect, “Why do you think it’s okay to make these jokes? You don’t think it’s harmful. But fundamentally, you have some beliefs about women that you haven’t looked at.” Connecting to people who may have some hangover from that, also celebrating what we have achieved with humans in so few generations. The fact is that women can do any job that they want and will not be held back by their gender. Most people agree with that. I think that there’s lots of humanist and rational thought to thank for that.

Jacobsen: Nicole, thank you very much for your time today to talk about a little bit of a niche humanist topic of being a lady British humanist. 

Shasha: You’re very welcome. Thank you very much for having me.

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