Mario Antonio Liptaj on ETHOS in Slovakia

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): The Good Men Project

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/10/19

Mario Antonio Liptaj is a Board Member of ETHOS in Slovakia and an activist, and filmmaker based out of Slovakia. Here he talks about Humanism in Slovakia.

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: What is your name?

Mario Antonio Liptaj: My name is Mario Antonio Liptaj. I am a board member of ETHOS, which is a secular humanist organization in Slovakia. 

Jacobsen: How long have you been involved in the humanist movement, secular humanist movement?

Liptaj: It is a bit of a difficult question. I think I have been an atheist for as long as I remember. I have labelled myself as such as soon as I read the definition of the word. Obviously, Humanism had that. Even though, I had joined this organization quite a while ago. I hadn’t really been an active member until about 4 or 5 years ago. There were some political controversies concerning the topic of separation of church and state, which is a question that has not yet been resolved in the country. The way in which the country deals with churches and, in particular, the Catholic Church is in opposition to the constitution. In fact, the very first line in the constitution is the ‘Slovak Republic is a sovereign, independent State with rule of law. It does not align itself with any ideology or religion’. Yet, despite this, one of the former governments of the country, for example, signed several treaties with the Vatican giving the Catholic Church special privileges. Even though, I cant directly label them as unconstitutional, as I am not an expert in this field. I do believe, personally, that that is in opposition with the spirit of how the constitution was written. 

In practice, this means that, for example, only the main churches are registered as churches in the country, which is a separate problem by itself, get State funding. This State funding is based on data from the census. It has, unfortunately, also been increasing. I believe somewhere around 56 or 58 million Euros a year, for example, goes directly to the Catholic Church. This has been a number thast has been gradually increasing. Despite the fact that the adherents to the Catholic Church, even according to census data, has been dropping over time, irreligious people are the converse. Sorry! [Laughing] I completely sidelined the discussion. 

What I was trying to say, the topic of the separation of church and state, and the political controversy of churches being funded from public funds was a topic that, at the time, was in the year 2019. It sort of appeared again in public discourse. So, I decided to organize a protest march in support of the separation of church and state. At first, I did it on my own. Then the ETHOS organization, basically, decided to join me in organizing this march. Then, somehow, through that process, it got to the point where I gradually became more and more involved with them, until becoming a board member as well. It was a bit of a long-winded response. But I hope this answered the question. 

This march was also related, again a year later. We have again, but we hope to organize it again next year. 

Jacobsen: For ETHOS, what are the main battlegrounds?  

Liptaj: Okay, so, there are many of them. Obviously, unfortunately, it is not all about funding. What we see in our country is theocratic elements repeatedly attempting to gain more and more political power through – let’s say – more and more nefarious means, which includes – I don’t want to say anything that counts as libel – influencing school curricula, especially with regards to optional religious education classes that we have in the country, they have repeatedly spread anti-LGBT or anti-abortion propaganda. We have, unfortunately, a growing problem with homophobia in the government and in politics, including repeated attempts in the parliament to restrict gay rights through various means, not to mention repeated attempts at restricting women’s rights to choose, Even though, I believe around 70% of the population actually opposes stricter abortion laws. However, as far as societal problems, we do see, at least, an apparent growth in instances of homophobic hatred, which, unfortunately, culminated in a terrorist attack at a gay bar. That happened last year (2022), where two people, unfortunately, died and a third one was wounded.

Jacobsen: How do you describe the activity within ETHOS?

Liptaj: I would say we only have about 20 registered members at the moment. Even though, our online presence is quite a bit larger and an online following as well. As for the structure, even though, I’m not 100% sure of the average age. Our ages vary. I am probably the youngest registered member, definitely the youngest board member for sure. 

Jacobsen: How do you find the other demographics of the organization?

Liptaj: I don’t have the numbers, but, as I said, I’m 26, being the youngest younger board member. I get the feeling that the average age is not quite as high as in some other organizations at the moment. I don’t have the data or anything. As for education, I believe most of us have some form of higher education. Geographically, even though, we have members all around the country. We do usually meet in the capital of Bratislava. That is where we have our meetings. It is informal meetings that happen now and then. This became more infrequent since the start of the pandemic. 

Jacobsen: What do you consider decent allies?

Liptaj: We have collaborated with specific members of two political parties so far. We’re now planning to publish a sort of secular guide to the upcoming election, this September

Jacobsen: Smart.

Liptaj: We look at each of the major candidate parties, which are quite large. We look at each of the issues that might concern secular voters, as well as how the parties had voted with regards to both positive and negative proposals in the parliament. How they voted with regards to LGBT rights or women’s rights, or the separation of church and state, or other related issues, that a secular person might care about. So far, it seems as though on those two parties who we have worked on in the past. They have been entirely unproblematic as for these particular issues. We have also worked with other activist organizations as well as, for example, a small church, whcih is the so-called old Catholic Church. They are a small religious organization that are fairly progressive and agree with us on the separation of church and state as well. When it comes to this topic specifically, we have even had the leader of this organization speak at our pro-separation of church and state marches. 

Jacobsen: Would you consider religion in Slovakia more of a social concern or more of a political effort?

Liptaj: I think it is a very regional distinction. Personally, I find myself lucky to have grown up in the capital of Bratislava, where I grew up an atheist without any major problems. However, I noticed how different it can be for other people as soon as I began attending high school on the other side of the country, where I met another boy who was from a small town or village who didn’t even know what the word atheism meant and was fairly surprised at the fact that there are people who don’t believe in God. So, I had to explain to him what atheism, which is the main label I use. Although, I do identify with secularist and humanist. They’re all the same to me. But that’s another debate. Anyway, I had to explain to him what atheism was.

Jacobsen: It’s an old joke Richard Dawkins tells, not him but, of another person who stipulated that they had an experience talking to their mother. Their mother had come to them saying, “I don’t mind that you don’t believe in God. I don’t mind that at all, but an atheist!” 

Liptaj: [Laughing] I almost forgot. 

Jacobsen: You’re seen as in a degenerate state.

Liptaj: Yes, yes, I remember when I told my father I was an atheist. I grew up – I’m not sure – mostly without him. He’s from a small Italian village. When I told him, he was an atheist. He immediately assumed that was a communist. [Laughing] But I’m not sure how relevant that is to the interview. I’m not sure rural villages in Slovakia are that different from rural villages in Italy, such as the one my father is from. 

Jacobsen: The Red Scare in the United States was about stereotyping as atheists. 

Liptaj: Now, countries that no longer label themselves communist, socialist rather; there can be a similar sort of paranoia about left-wing thinking and socialism. I would label myself a socialist, but it is still very politically and socially controversial to do so – I would say.

Jacobsen: I think a lot of these fears of atheists and secular humanists, and stuff, is more or less an artificial anxiety. Something whipped up for political purposes. 

Liptaj: I wouldn’t just say political, especially in many parts of Europe and in the Catholic – and completely in the Orthodox parts of Europe; you see it’s not just politicians, but priests and the Church, itself, to hold onto pwoer. Unfortunately, what we see in Slovakia is a lot of misinformation, hate being spread, it is by priests, by bishops, etc. Actually, I forgot to mention. Directly after the shooting at the gay bar, which was conducted by a young boy who happened to have come out of the same school as me, who’s father was active in the far-right party, and who was himself radicalized, maybe, that’s neither here nor there. Directly after the shooting happened, one of the bishops or a cardinal, Orosch. He has immediately afterwards, after the shooting like a few days later, responded to the shooting by blaming the victims for doing immoral things, by being who they are, naturally. That’s another thing that we immediately responded to, by organizing a protest gathering outside seats of congress in Slovakia, which, actually, the conference of (Catholic) bishops is very controversial in our country because they have been a major source of spreading hatred in the Catholic Church. 

Jacobsen: Do they, as with the Americans and, maybe, some Canadian parts, export their ideological leanings to the other parts of the world?

Liptaj: Do you mean, “Do they export, or do Americans export, their religions?”

Jacobsen: Do the Slovak fundamentalists, far-right groups, export their fundamentalism to other parts of the world?

Liptaj: Not as far as I am aware of, but we have been and continue to be a target of many fringe…

Jacobsen: You’re speaking of ETHOS now? 

Liptaj: No, sorry, I mean Slovakia, unfortunately, especially in the recent years has been an export target of many fringe and cultish groups. We have seen a rise of activities from groups such as the Scientologists and Mormons, especially the Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Jacobsen: That’s a weird trifecta. 

Liptaj: Now, new groups are popping up, whose names I can’t remember off the top of my head – targeting especially younger audiences, which I find very concerning. Basically, indoctrinating them. These groups have also been involved in questionable activities and have been labelled as cults. 

Jacobsen: From what I’m gathering, the main issue is internal and not external, in terms of the country. Your major issues are religious fundamentalists already in the country. 

Liptaj: From my point of view – not so much from religious propaganda, as from repeated attempts by religious fundamentalists to gain political power. The previous government, which is luckily enough not in power anymore, has had several ministers, including the Prime Minister, who had previously been involved with religious fringe groups, including, I believe, the Charismatics. 

Jacobsen: The people who have glossolalia/speaking in tongues. That sort of thing.

Liptaj: Yes, which I find concerning, unfortunately, it also had an impact on issues such as abortion rights.

Jacobsen: With regards to the census, what are the activites of ETHOS?

Liptaj: In 2021, we had a nationwide census. Most of the countries every 10 years. We saw that as an opportunity to both inform people about the current structure of how churches are funded in our country, but also, maybe, a way to encourage people to rethink their attitudes towards religion and towards organized religion, specifically. Because the funding of churches by the State is mostly determined by census data, we thought that it was important for people to truly reconsider whether or not they are going to declare their adherence to any particular religious group or organization, since many, unfortunately, don’t realize that by declaring themselves, for example, Catholic; they contribute towards increasing the funding of the Catholic Church from the State, or might not realize that they can even not label themselves according to how they might have been baptised. I have, even after the fact, met a person who wasn’t aware that they were allowed not to declare themselves Catholic. Even though, they have been baptised. That is a free choice. We prepared a campaign, which was a mix of a billboard campaign and an online campaign. I was part of a team that prepared the graphical side of the campaign. We made a website and a hashtag (translating as “No Religion” or “Without Religion”). Luckily enough, we got a major discount for our billboards, since the municipality was about to remove those billboards anyway. So, luckily enough, we caught the attention of a nominally conservative, where we are beginning to see more far-right, but still conservative online journal or media. Unfortunately, we offended them enough so that they wrote an angry article and a hit piece about our campaign and ETHOS as an organization, which, luckily enough, gave us even more attention. 

Jacobsen: Yes, it always backfires.  

Liptaj: Yes, it does. Actually, if I can correct myself a bit, they first decided to offer to interview us, in the spirit of democracy and free expression. The President of ETHOS, at the time, gave them an interview. It was only after the fact that they turned against us and started attacking us, and our campaign. So, I would consider that campaign a success and the numbers have risen dramatically from, I believe, 13% to the lower 20s, nowadays, of irreligious people. But also, irreligious people being, now, the largest group in the capital and many other regions in the West and in the South of the country. So, I would consider thast a success. That was a campaign. 

Jacobsen: What wuld your advice be for other organizationsthat would like to reach out, connect, coordinate, and share information with ETHOS?

Liptaj: I mean, suppose, they can just email us. 

Jacobsen: It is always as simple as an email. 

Liptaj: I think so. They can also find us social media, particularly Facebook. We have a Facebook page, but, most of all, we find the most information about the current issues in the country on the website. We publish articles, frequently, about the current state of Humanism and Secularism in the country. 

Jacobsen: Any final feelings or thought based on the conversation today?

Liptaj: I have a lot of thoughts and opinions, but none come to mind right now. 

Jacobsen: Thank you for the opportunity and your time. 

Liptaj: No problem. It’s been a pleasure.

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