Ahmed Elbukhari on the Tanweer Movement in Libya
Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen
Publication (Outlet/Website): The Good Men Project
Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2023/08/12
Ahmed Elbukhari is a Co-Founder of the Tanweer Movement (2013-) and the Executive Director of the Tanweer Movement (2015-). Here he discusses the Tanweer movement in Libya.
Scott Douglas Jacobsen: We are here today with Ahmed Elbukhari.
Ahmed Elbukhari: Thank you for having me.
Jacobsen: [Laughing] Like a radio show. What was your story in coming to a non-religious point of view, not seeing religion as viable personally?
Elbukhari: I think I started critiquing Islam because I found it, day by day, as something not valuable as a modern religion. Because I am kind of a science nerd. I started seeing the scientific facts and values as more accurate for me, rather than something the religion promotes as ‘facts’. I came gradually, day by day. I didn’t wake up one day from a Muslim into an atheist or an agnostic. But it came step by step from a normal Muslim to a modern Muslim to a secular Muslim, until I said, “Why am I bothering?” Before, many people converted from Islam to an atheist or agnostic state of mind. They started questioning the Sunna, then become Quranists. Stuff like this is believing in only the Quran and trying to say the Sunna is something written later. This is the road.
Jacobsen: The Tanweer Movement, how did it get started? What was the inspiration for it?
Elbukhari: It was founded in 2013 in Libya. It came from the idea that religion can be a big obstacle to evolving our country. Tanweer, it is a word meaning “Enlightenment”. It is because we read about this Enlightenment movement in Arabic. We learn about Voltaire and Jean Jacques Rousseau and how the Church acted, and started putting some humanist facts forward. This is where the idea came from. I can tell that now, after more than 10 years; a lot has changed and evolved. We didn’t stick with this idea. We evolved it, until we stayed here as a humanist organization.
Jacobsen: Coming to a place like the World Congress, you see people from different areas of the world, but a smaller amount from the Middle East and North Africa region. How does it feel to come into a situation where certain things aren’t assumed about you? You can have a more comfortable conversation.
Elbukhari: First, it is nice to be sharing a place with people who share the same non-belief [Laughing].
Jacobsen: That’s a weird way to phrase it [Laughing]. We are shared by what we don’t believe. In atheist organizations, you can find that.
Elbukhari: It’s also the values we share too. It is great. At the same time, it is sad more people from under Islamic regimes don’t come here. Maybe, that’s because Humanism, as a movement, isn’t well-known. There are a lot of atheists, agnostics, non-believers. Everyone knows that. This time, our countries are having this period of change because now it’s like the 1700s in Europe. Everyone is questioning. Every day, there are people coming out of a religious state of mind. Still, there is no promoting the alternative. “What’s the alternative that we have?” That’s when humanist values and the movement is very important. It establishes that there is a different way, a different path to take. Our problem in being non-religious: You don’t have the emotional support. “I don’t believe in God. What I am believing, now, certain things: like death.” It is an issue. I hope next year’s could be better and better.
Jacobsen: Armin Navabi of Atheist Republic, his story is out of Iran as a teenager attempting suicide and forming the atheist consulates [Ed. clever in and of itself] of the larger organization online. One of the connections for ex-Muslims – I notice in interviews – is the Internet and digital connection, and other people, to share information and experiences as a portal to opening one’s mind or getting out of a difficult circumstance in which the speech is being suppressed, freedom of thought is being suppressed – even in the family. Those digital spaces – I have noticed – are some of the most effective ways people from the Middle East and North Africa region have found freedom in theocratic countries or (from those) values. It could be Christian, Jewish, Hindu, or whatever. However, the historical context for many people in those parts of the world happens to be Islamic. Have you noticed this with people in Libya? Are they finding their way out of religious ideology more often in online spaces?
Elbukhari: Of course, this digital revolution and having the sources to read and to watch. Because YouTube makes a very big difference, especially in the Arab-speaking world. It has had the most impact because we don’t have other sources, to be honest.
Jacobsen: [Laughing].
Elbukhari: If you don’t have these sources from the internet, where are you going to get it? For some countries, it is one voice, one religion, one point of view. You have to read in the school, hear from your father and mother, and the State. This is what you are ‘meant to be’; there is no other point of view. Yes, internet sources and, now, YouTube, even P.D.F. posts or books. It is a major road, to be honest. Also, ah! Internet can help you also build your own community. This has helped a lot in coming out as nonbelievers. Although, sometimes, coming out could be pressure, we don’t encourage people to come out, because this is very sensitive in our countries. Because, sometimes, when you are involved in communities of nonbelievers or atheists, you will have some pressure that you want to openly say, “I am atheist”, in the platform. Because this is a lot of risk.
Jacobsen: I have noticed that more men are able to come forward as ex-Muslims, to have ‘safe spaces’ for them. There are fewer women. I have been told that financial access is more of an issue for women and freedom of movement is a little greater, not a huge amount greater, for men. Are there gender considerations for ex-Muslims when coming out or trying to come out?
Elbukhari: Somehow, in our traditional culture, men have more power than women, so have more freedom to an independent state. At least, they can choose to go away from the family or leave the country. Or they have their own business. One of the things that I learned is that the financial state is to be independent: Women don’t have this privilege. I found, often, they stick with their family and beliefs rather than take this big risk.
Jacobsen: The definition of a “challenge” can vary widely depending on the country. Countries with more time to develop – centuries or decades – to get the infrastructure, education, and culture of a people, to allow for a difference of opinion on things. The definition of a challenge in the United Kingdom, Canada, or the United States, will be more than a little different in various areas, where there is a very heavy theocratic hammer, which can be used against people. In Libya, what are defined as challenges or threats for nonbelievers?
Elbukhari: It is a big, big difference. I often feel like we’re talking about two different worlds. It is everything, like daily life instructions from the State, authorities, the social structures, and deep, deep under starting with your father, mother, and the State. Declaring you are a nonbeliever is declaring war, actually, normal people could have their own ‘justice’ on you.
Jacobsen: Could this put their employment, life, or the well-being of people they know, at risk?
Elbukhari: Yes, exactly, starting with putting your life at risk, isolating you, they will disgrace you, put your family at risk, put a lot of shame on you. They will not even treat you as a human being. They put you as some garbage that they have to take away from them. Also, the problem is that they are so on the offensive. They start on this offensive. Sometimes, normal street guy – like from the street – who has a lot of problems. The corruption in his country is high. Even with those that he has in his life, he will put you as a priority. He has to kill you first, then everything will be okay with him. He will obsessively think about you. This is society, societal rejection.
Jacobsen: What are ways in which people can help? I should rather ask, “When it comes to the local organizations, speaking regionally: How can we build the momentum in those areas to get better representation?” That which has been listed by lots of humanists. There is limited access to external resources and limited representation in the Middle East and North America. It is a big gap and should be put on the loudspeaker more.
Elbukhari: Paying attention at all levels, like financially, giving more platforms, getting more involved, I must raise the issue of language. There is no Arabic, Kurdish, or Swahili script or translation for humanist values or websites. Also, for example, the Arabian organizations are so close to each other. They have a good financial state. They could reach, at least, an event on the ground. They could travel. There is a problem with travelling. The issue of the visa, and financial support. These could build more platforms for our region. That’s the way. We could contact more and could see more people come here.
Jacobsen: Thank you very much, Ahmed.
Ahmed Elbukhari: Thank you.
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