An Interview with Munroe Ro, Founder and Outreach Director of Karmik

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): Karmik

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2017/03/30

Note: This interview has been edited for clarity, readability, and concision. What was the inspiration for Karmik?

I love when people ask us this; inspiration comes from many places. Karmik was started through collaborative ideas and recognition of an identified need in the community. It did not come from just one person.

I grew up in places like Toronto, Prairies, and Central America; I am not from Vancouver originally. In Toronto, we had a similar harm reduction organization called the TRIP! Project. It is run and funded through the public health system. For me, one of the first raves I went to was where the TRIP! Project in Toronto was present. They seemed to be very supportive and at the same time, realistic – they didn’t seem to pressure people and were just so warm and inviting, their vibes. I thought, “Wow! What is this?”

They have similar supports to Karmik at youth events through Toronto and some of the festivals around Ontario. Many harm reduction organizations working in nightlife and community settings will have similar setups. Karmik keeps in line with things that work, and we all share similar structures that have success in supporting our target demographic. Also, since we have the same structures, it allows us to create projects and collect data municipally and federally.

I was impacted by my experience with TRIP! Project. After that point, I wanted to make sure something existed. I grew up in the arts and music scene. I want to see the supports there. I have been around a bit. When I came to Vancouver, I moved here for professional life. I work in addictions, mental health, and social work as well. It is my day career.

When I moved out here, I was integrating into the communities more. I did not see many other projects like TRIP! Project. I started to ask questions. I started to figure out if that existed in Vancouver. A program to fill the identified gaps of public health in certain communities.

When I found none, I started to think about where I could place some skills there. From that point, I was active in online forums. I met Alex Betsos, who is the volunteer coordinator. He is another co-founder of Karmik.

Also, I met Margaret Yu there too. She is another co-founder. She stepped back in her duties (recently). We recognized the same gap in public health. We have a similar background in electronic music and festivals.

We did not see active support for people in harm reduction. The inspiration came from that. There were few historically active harm reduction groups; Mind Body Love and a Vancouver DanceSafe chapter were two of the identified previous supports. in Vancouver, BC.

What tasks and responsibilities come with Karmik?

I own the business and am one of three co founders. I am also the outreach director and on staff Naloxone trainer. I am definitely the annoying person bugging somebody about an event, having harm reduction at their space or festival, and pressing them to talk about it and explore the new concept with me.

Also, I do back-end work with Karmik; this is variable from engagement to advocacy to engagement and research projects. Everyone in the organization will meet once a week together to then focus further on different tasks.

I facilitate naloxone training bi weekly for people under 30 years of age. I do naloxone trainings with different community groups, bar and event staff, citizens in general. I also facilitate Karmik volunteers in their Naloxone training for every cohort; Naloxone is an essential aspect of training for prospective volunteers.

I do live event support as well; during this role, we are called coordinators. When on site for an event, I am one of these coordinators. Coordinators are also different people (than our back end staff) employed to Karmik to be the team leads. They manage, support, and interact with the event staff, patrons, as well as managing the peers on shift during these events.

With the scope of Karmik, you mentioned harm reduction for the organization. What is harm reduction? Why is it the preferred strategy for Karmik?

Harm reduction can be applicable and accessible for many different people. It depends on our perception. Harm reduction is any practice that reduces harm for an individual. No matter the category or stipulation that falls into.

It is a practice with yourself. It will reduce harms of any associated behaviours for you. We can think of how harm reduction is basic. When you cross the road, will you look left and right? That is harm reduction.

You are making a safer choice and decision based on education and information. It is about making informed decisions. You looked left and right to cross the road. How did you know to look left and right? How does that factor into your choice?

A big part is increasing honest education for people, which is a key component of harm reduction. It will empower individuals to make better choices for themselves in any situation, which is inherently leading to harm reduction behaviours in all situations. If we dig deeper into this, why is that a good choice? Think a moment.

My scholastic achievements include a Bachelor of Health Sciences with a Major in Addictions as well as a Substance Use Counsellor diploma. Usually, I work as an addiction counsellor for youth with concurrent disorders, heavy opiate use and mental health. When we look at how people make decisions and care about their lives, it is about being empowered by the choices made by them.

We have an emphasis on their choices. Everyone can think back on times when people said, “You need to do this.” We reply, “Why do we need to do that?” Then somebody doesn’t give a great answer connected to our reality. It does not feel great for us to do something which is not true or genuine. We do not feel connected to our reality when we make choices for other people.

We do not feel that we are engaging in our reality to create our own lives to lead. When we are actively engaged in our lives with genuine connection and passion, we will make better decisions for ourselves. We want to continue that in life and have a personal measure of success.

Firstly, harm reduction is a great way of increasing accessibility to honest education. We want to give people the right education and tools to make the right choices.

Secondly, it increases people’s empowerment and engagement with their own lives. It increases people’s want and desire to control their own lives. It creates a healthier life. It increases the confidence and ambition to take control and create our own lives.

Individuals take control in a way considered the route of least resistance, typically. It’s a concept of self-autonomy. We do not resist decisions or actions that we want to inherently want to do ourselves, that are genuine and connected to our true sense of self. When those choices are made in a healthier way, harm reduction is a relative concept.

We have to look at oppression, traumatized societies, peoples, and communities. The choices forced on us historically as well as currently, are not necessarily the choices we want to make. Harm reduction has to do with supporting people from oppressed, traumatized communities; individuals and communities that have been subjected to stigmatization or stereotyping.

Everyone has been a victim to some aspect in their lives; we can all be empathetic and compassionate when we take a look deeper inside ourselves, to those experiences or times. In regards to positive progression in public health we want to see; increased accessibility to honest education about substances and substance use, as well as increasing engagement strategies with peer to peer resources.

This is primarily so people can feel heard and share the education learned with their communities. This inevitably leads to people making the right choices for themselves and their communities.

It is a no-brainer. Harm reduction works because it works. I appreciate the humor… I used to roll my eyes when I heard that slang. Just kidding; I never did because I always cared about harm reduction. Harm reduction can be as simple a concept, as we allow it.

It is a strategy of, by, and for the people. It has the people’s best interests at heart. In BC, the funds allocated for treatment and harm reduction are put towards incarceration and halfway strategies. Without addressing the root causes of any challenges, how can we hope to find or create pragmatic solutions?

Media attention has focused on looking at treatment programs and substance use support. Specifically, it looks at the reasons for them working and not working. Typically, the ones that do not work come from an oppressive mentality. Additionally, media has focused around the traditional, conservative question of philosophy concerning substance use: just say no? Personally, I spend the majority of my interviews combating Nancy Reagan and her archaic attacks on our personal autonomy.

Harm reduction is another means to increase openness for people that want to connect and for people that want to engage with self care practices. Harm reduction asks that you engage with your experience as who you are; to be present, raw and honest with yourself about what your needs are, and how significant a space they hold in your life. Harm reduction and self care are consistent commitments to yourself and your lifestyle, to stay safer in all aspects.

Looking into the present and into the future, what is the current scale of Karmik in terms of helping out youth activities and youth involved in them? And what are the plans for expanding operations?

I always want to expand and am always looking to expand further globally. We are passionate about how we want to move forward and this influences our ability to move forward quickly. It is a fantastic pace currently, for better or worse. Why? Because in this moment: we could choose to accept the newfound accessibility to modern harm reduction policies through our current health crisis with fentanyl. Although it might feel grim, we [harm reduction groups] can use the available supports in this situation, to push for justice and progressive drug policies. We have a higher likelihood of being heard, given our current health epidemic. I am sure other people have noticed this also; harm reduction is becoming a media hot topic and is very present in our public health discourse.

People are having a voice; people are being heard. We have a lot on the horizon. Karmik facilitates harm reduction through live support at music festivals, events and community spaces globally. We train peer-to-peer support groups to travel to all of our live events/festivals to support any type of “sanctuary” or “chill” space. The sanctuary is designed to provide a safe space for festival attendees to calm down and seek support in all kinds of challenging situations. Staffed by Karmik coordinators and trained (peer support) volunteers, we strive to provide meaningful connections for those struggling with adverse effects of drugs and alcohol, as well as those who cannot find their friends, or those who simply need someone sober to talk to. In order to create an inviting space, we set up themed decorations and therapeutic activities such as Lego and art stations. The sanctuary also helps to deal with strain on the capacity of the medical team. Sanctuary staff monitor individuals who do not require professional medical treatment and the medical team is able to act more efficiently in cases where their attention is desperately needed. Additionally, when attendees no longer need medical attention they are moved to our sanctuary space by the medical staff, allowing medics to continue addressing more serious concerns effectively.

Often we might travel for more than one to attend events; our routine is to be on tour through the North American festival season (late spring/summer); we staff local, municipal, and exterior events in BC. Additionally, we support harm reduction at international festivals (such as Bamboo Bass Festival annually in Jaco, Costa Rica). Recently, we were hired for a municipal event in Kamloops, BC through our festival connections with Electric Love Music Festival (held in Agassiz, BC). Karmik is not in Vancouver alone, although this is our home base. We run training programs for our volunteers year round, in order to provide opportunities for different levels of engagement for our volunteers/peer support workers with Karmik. At present, our training sessions are run x3 per year; spring, summer and winter session; x2 weekly for 3 hours, local to Vancouver, BC. They are extensive and year-round opportunities for new volunteers and supporters to connect with our larger network. All prospective, live event peer support workers go through our rigorous training program. Prospective volunteers must complete the full training program before being able to volunteer as peer support workers with Karmik for live events/festivals. That being said, Karmik volunteers come from all backgrounds and walks of life. Our volunteer roster includes interested parties from: public health, academia, government officials, non profit partners, djs, musicians, models, artists, media/film contacts, authors, frontline social workers), family, friends, loved ones and more; those who have been affected by the war on drugs find compassion and empathy in our spaces.

These training workshops are done partially by Karmik coordinators including: Alex Betsos (Drugs 101), Cameron Schwartz (Live Event Support) and myself (Peer Counselling 101 & Naloxone training), and rotating Karmik staff/practicum students for our Self Care workshop.

Some of Karnik’s peer support training workshops are facilitated by other members of our harm reduction community who are local Vancouver, BC and engage with our demographic. Karmik seeks to engage and empower our collective community strength, aware that we are not (and should not), be the only source of positive influence, empathy and knowledge. Karmik is aware of the possible intersections across different disciplines in these communities of knowledge and support. For example, we have a local organization called The Consent Crew, which runs a one evening workshop on consent; Kaschelle Thiessen with Vancouver Pride Society, who facilitates our anti oppression workshop; Mitchell Cummings who is a paramedic in Vancouver, BC, who facilitates our Live Events workshop; John Woods who facilitates our Sexual Harm Reduction 101 from OPT Sexual Health; and many more!

We attend drug policy conferences, both internationally and nationally. For example, I was at the Reform Conference in Washington 2016 in Washington, DC with Alex Betsos; we are often funded through scholarships and our working groups who have an academic interest in Karmik succeeding globally as an advocate for harm reduction. For conferences, we attend as Karmik, our independent harm reduction organization. At other times, we attend as part of other harm reduction communities on panels for collaborative pieces. There is the International Harm Reduction Conference happening in May 2017 in Montreal where both Betsos (as part of Canadian Students for Sensible Drug Policy) and myself (Karmik) have been accepted to present posters/harm reduction material. Additionally, we may attend the Reform 2017 and Club Health conference in Dublin, Ireland. My participation at the IHRC focuses on the accessibility to knowledge and support created through harm reduction and nightlife networks globally. Our participants are: Lori from TRIP (Toronto, CAD), Julie Soleil from GRIP (Montreal, CAD) and Chloe from Ankors (Kootenays, CAD). These global harm reduction networks are significant and essential to the academia and our active front line support. These allow us to create projects, facilitate shared research data collection goals, attend conferences and place positive pressure on legislative bodies for shared harm reduction goals.

Karmik works with different bodies of harm reduction organizations, nationally and internationally. We are part of lots of different projects at different levels. Some of our projects and ongoing working groups/meetings include: drug checking/testing; drug policies globally; municipal, federal and provincial task force groups focused on fentanyl and opiate ODs, mental health, addiction. A significant piece of our international networking projects includes, but is not limited, to: nightlife and networking in the Americas, which international supports for harm reduction with aligned harm reduction goals: The Loops (UK), ACEID (Costa Rica), ESPOLEA (Mexico), Regeneration (EUR), DanceSafe (USA), Stay Safe Seattle (USA), Safer Raving (USA), Amend the Rave Act! (USA), MAPS (INTL), Drug Policy Alliance (USA), Open Society Foundations (USA), CSSDP (INT’L), Healthy Nightlife (USA), Canadian Drug Policy Coalition (CAD), AIDS Committee of Ottawa (CAD), TRIP! Project (CAD), GRIP (CAD), Canadian Centre on Substance Use (CAD), and more.

We are in all possible and present spaces. In our off festival time, we are participating in all of these groups to move harm reduction projects forward on a greater scale and with more influence. For conferences, we attend as Karmik. Other times, we attend as part of other harm reduction communities on panels.

We work in different ways with others for social awareness and acceptance around harm reduction year round. I am working to expand Karmik into different chapters and communities in BC.

In Vancouver, we have public health primarily provided through Vancouver Coastal Health. Throughout BC, we can see the following public health authorities: Fraser Health, Providence Health, Interior Health, etc. Karmik is well-connected with all of these health authorities. Why? Because we are all working together to support each other. We have a great working relationship with everyone involved that is non judgemental, empathetic, compassionate, raw, genuine, loyal and progressive. Also as of 2016, we are listed on the Healthlink BC website; another example of how we work together to support communities.

For example, if I get an event request for Kamloops, I would love to say, “Hey Karmik chapter in Kamloops, let’s do this!” and provide accessible opportunities for people wanting to volunteer at events who aren’t based in Vancouver, BC. Also, the health authority in Kamloops is different, and we [as] Karmik want to engage with like minded communities, whether that is our Karmik volunteer pool or professional public health collaborations. We also want to see harm reduction supports increasingly accessible in remote communities of BC; we have fielded requests from community members to start Karmik chapters in their communities because they perceive Karmik as a strong conduit to affect their municipal networks and eventual policies.

Karmik does not have to, nor does it need to, support all of the harm reduction requests throughout BC. I would love to see others be able to step up and use our collective powers to create some real changes in our society, starting with communal success as opposed to individual success based on monetary values. Karmik’s intention of expansion is to create the same power of accessibility for all communities. That is some of our work for the future.

We recently hired some new people for our larger Karmik organization; we have different levels of engagement with Karmik, from paid positions to extended volunteer engagement. Recently, we have hired two new live event coordinators; they are responsible for managing onshift at events for Karmik presence, as well as responsible for our coordinator and managing our peer support volunteers on shifts at events/festivals. Also, for someone as part of the full organization, we hired one individual; we call these positions back end Karmik. We are always looking to expand and bring on inspired, passionate and revolutionary individuals as part of Karmik! Watch our Facebook group for job postings and volunteer training announcements! There is so much interest in what we’re doing and we are so happy to involve others who similarly, feel compelled by harm reduction philosophies.

However, we want to give due diligence by admitting that we need more people on board with Karmik. That is why we do our hiring. It is based out of needs and the understanding that we’re growing rapidly and that we want people want to grow with us.

In the future, we are always trying to run national and international drug testing projects. We are always on the tip of what is coming up, how to come together for Canada particularly, and so on.

I manage harm reduction for Bamboo Bass Festival in Jaco, Costa Rica in February annually, which is great. I bring down our Karmik volunteers and coordinators who are able to make the commitment; we always have an exciting and eclectic group of all kinds of volunteers. Some of our volunteers for BBF are coming back for their second year with Karmik and are performers, DJS, musicians, etc. at BBF who feel a need to give back to their communities as well. It is going to be exciting this year because it is our first year connecting with local organizations for Central America and South America to support BBF harm reduction! Although we had the same plans last year (2016), it didn’t work out.

This year in 2017, there is: ACEID which is a NGO (non governmental organization) in San José, CR run by my friend, Ernesto Cortes. Also we have Brun Gonsalez, from ESPOLEA in Mexico. They will be bringing their expertise as well as peer support volunteers to BBF. We will all be working together for the harm reduction for the Bamboo Bass Festival in Costa Rica, which is one of the first actions from our working group Harm Reduction in the Americas. We all met last year at the Reform 2016 conference, and spent our time making plans together.

Karmik is always extending internationally to move the harm reduction philosophy forward to help with parties in different regions. In Costa Rica, there is no data and no collection on research on harm reduction philosophy that is accepted into legislative bodies that create changes in policy. Karmik is extremely excited to work with these organizations from Central and South America at BBF because we will be supporting Costa Rica to create their own network of accessible, acceptable harm reduction support.

To be able to start moving those forward with any pragmatism, we need to collect the data, which is always what Karmik is doing. At every event/festival, we are collecting generalized data that is later used in the area of Festival Health & Safety, an emerging health and safety field that Karmik collaborates with. Also, we are always looking for funding; we are currently funded only through private donations (on our website) as well as contracts fulfilled year round. However, we are always looking for external funding; these can be one offs or subject to project completion as well.

We will see what comes next! We will have some more media coming out in 2017, even some documentaries – keep an eye on us to be in the know!

Thank you for your time, Munroe.

Yeah, totally!

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