Zaporizhzhia Field Interview With Remus Cernea

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Publication (Outlet/Website): The Good Men Project

Publication Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 2024/02/21

*Further original, internal sources are at the bottom of the article.*

*Video interview embedded at the top of the article.*

*The interview conducted September 10, 2023.*

Remus Cernea is a humanist philosopher and former member of the Romanian Parliament (2012-2016) with a green progressive agenda. He also served as an advisor to the Prime Minister (2012) on environmental issues. He held the position of Executive Director of the first secular humanist NGO in Romania, Solidarity for Freedom of Conscience (2003-2008). He was the founder and first President of the Romanian Humanist Association (2008-2012). Since June 2022, he has been working as a war correspondent in Ukraine for Newsweek Romania. In 2004-2005, Remus Cernea successfully halted the construction of the giant Orthodox Cathedral in a historic park in Bucharest (Carol Park). During his time as a member of parliament, he advocated for various humanist causes, such as introducing Ethics into the curriculum, stop using the public funding for the construction of giant cathedrals, ending religious indoctrination in schools, allocating more funds for scientific research, legally recognizing civil partnerships, ceasing the use of religious symbols in electoral campaigns, and repealing the “blasphemy law,” among others. He also achieved significant accomplishments, including the liberation of animals in circuses and the strengthening of laws for the protection of domestic violence victims. Here we talk about the Russo-Ukrainian war from the Ukrainian city of Zaporizhzia for a remote interview.

Interview audiovisual content, click this sentence.

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: So, where are you now?

Remus Cernea: I am in the city of Zaporizhzhya. The South front is quite near at around 40 kilometres from the city. Unfortunately, this city is bombed often by Russians. You can see here a building, a block flat, that was destroyed on October 9th (2022). 12 people died here. Many dozens were wounded. Unfortunately, there were children who died and who were wounded here. That is why you can see in this place many toys that a lot of people put here in the memory of these children that were killed and wounded here. That place between the buildings is where the building collapsed. So, that place simply collapsed because of the hit of the Russian missile. I will show the crater where the missile hit. Just a second. This is happening quite often in the cities, in the Ukrainian cities, because the Russian army did not have many successes on the front. So, they want to terrorize the people. That is why they’re hitting a lot of residential areas. Because, as you see here, there are only residential buildings. Only residential buildings, there is also a park. There is nothing military here. There is not a place that might be interesting for military reasons. This is the crater. I will try to show it to you. Much better, I will go down. This is the crater. This is the result of the hit. Imagine that the missile did not hit directly the building, but look what huge damage it has done here. 

Jacobsen: To interject, these were directed, targeted bombings of a residential area to instill terror.

Cernea: Yes, I saw a lot of places like this in the Ukrainian cities. I saw similar things in Kharkiv. I saw similar things in Kherson and in other cities, in Sloviansk, Kramatorsk, Mykolaiv, and in other cities. So, the Russian military forces are trying to bring terror to the Ukrainian civilians. That is why they are attacking almost every day. They are attacking civilian places. So, I try to go out from this crater. Look at the building. I will go inside. There is a danger to go inside. But I want to go inside. I will show you the result of this attack here. I will put my helmet (on) because the building is very fragile. So, I will send you some photos from the day that this happened. The building collapsed. What you see here, it is what remains after the hit of the missile, give me a few seconds to put on my helmet.

Jacobsen: Do we know the type of projectile used? It is not a direct hit, but the shockwave.

Cernea: Yes, I will send you the type of missile. I found an article when it is specified, these details. Give me a few seconds to put on my helmet, then I will go inside. So, let’s go inside and see what happened there, as I told you, the building is quite fragile. That is why there are these things here to keep, somehow, the building to not collapse completely. 

Jacobsen: These were makeshift buttresses put up by other Ukrainians.

Cernea: So, this is what happened here. It is quite dark inside. 

Jacobsen: It is completely destroyed. 

Cernea: So, this is inside the building. 

Jacobsen: These were people’s apartment.

Cernea: Yes.

Jacobsen: It was their life savings invested in a piece of property, gone.

Cernea: Yes.

Jacobsen: How many were killed?

Cernea: 12 people were killed here. This is a jacket. You can see it. So, their life, gone. Their life. Their hopes. Imagine that this bombardment was during the night, and the people were at home. Maybe, that is why it was a big number of casualties. Let’s go up. Look. Look at the structure, the structure is very, very fragile. As you can see, yes? The structure is very fragile here. Look. But, sometimes, you have to assume some risk. Here is a mobile phone as I see it. Can you see it?

Jacobsen: Yes.

Cernea: This was the elevator. So, this is what remains. This was the elevator. Here was the elevator. You can see the button here. Yes? Let’s go inside of another apartment, where you can see the destruction. So, this is Putin’s war. This is a huge tragedy. We have to understand that this is the policy of the Russian Army. They are destroying the Ukrainian civilian buildings by purpose. They try to terrorize the people and break the Ukrainian spirit. But they didn’t succeed to do so, until now. They will not succeed. So, this is Putin’s war. 

Jacobsen: Was this the “policy” since the beginning or more a tactic that developed over time with the war?

Cernea: Unfortunately, in the beginning, there were some rapes. Look. In the beginning, the brutality… look at the fridge. You can see a fridge there, yes? This war was very brutal from the beginning, but, at the beginning, there were some brutality acts done by the soldiers. Rapes, stealing from the civilians, and so on. But soon after the Russian’s were unable to conquer Ukraine because, you know, there were some attacks against Kyiv, but they didn’t succeed to take Kyiv. They were defeated there. They were defeated in Irpin and Bucha, and other places. After they were defeated and had to retreat from many zones in Ukraine, these terror became a policy of, the main policy of, the Russian Army. They started to shell and to hit the civilian buildings because imagine almost every day; the Ukrainian cities are hit with missiles like this, or drones, or shells. 

When I have been in Nikopol, the city which is very near nuclear power plant in Enerhodar. 40, 50 kilometres from here. There, there are more than 4,000 buildings, which were hit by the Russians, by the Russian shelling. Schools are in bunkers. The schools in Nikopol are in bunkers. So, I showed you what’s inside. This is a cap. So, I will go out now. These are the realities in most of the Ukrainian cities, which are close to the front. Here in Zaporizhzhia, the front is about 40 kilometres away from the city. The Ukrainian military forces are trying to push back the Russians. There are some cities that were liberated, recently, by the Ukrainians. Of course, there are many sacrifices. There are a lot of Ukrainians who are dying for their country. But these sacrifices seem to be necessary in order to push back the Russians. So, this is happening. This is for real, unfortunately. I don’t want to be here. I don’t want these things. I don’t want it that these kinds of things are happening, but they are really happening. I have to be here. I feel and I think that I have to be a witness to these tragedies, these horrors.

So, this is one of the places. There are many, many other places like this hit by Russians. Unfortunately, a lot of civilians have to face these kind of events. There is a family. You can see a family behind me walking here. There were other children, young boys, walking around. Let me show you also some cars, there were many cars that were destroyed. Some of them are still here. Let me show them to you. Look.

Jacobsen: Barely any left. What cities have been hit the worst?

Cernea: Hard to say, many of them. Kharkiv was… I have been there. I saw a ghost district. A ghost district full of blocks of flats like this. I showed you here one. But there are hundreds of blocks or flats like this, destroyed like this, in Kharkiv. But there are many others. Usually, the cities that were close to the front. Usually, Kharkiv, maybe Kupiansk, Sloviansk, Kramatorsk, the cities… those which are closer to the front are much more hit by Russians. 

Jacobsen: What have been the most significant pushbacks by Ukrainians and others against Russian incursion?

Cernea: Yes, the Ukrainians succeeded to push back the Russians in mainly September, October, and November last year (2022), when they liberated Kharkiv region and Kherson region. There were some cities where there were strong fights. Even when the Russians were not inside of the city, so the fights were not inside the city, maybe Russians were ten kilometres away, 145 kilometres away, the Russians hit the city, hit the civilians, because it is a policy. It is not by mistake. It is not like they want to hit some Ukrainian tanks, they missed, then hit a block of flats. No, because there are no tanks here in the cities, there are no tanks. No military targets, real targets. So, that is why it is cruelty. It is cruelty of the Russian military forces. That they are constantly hitting civilian targets, civilian homes. I have seen this in many cities. I have hundreds of clips like this on my TikTok account, YouTube channel. I have hundreds of clips like this. 

Jacobsen: How is the morale of the Ukrainian forces now?

Cernea: The morale of the forces seems to be high. The morale of the people also seems to be high. Many people still live here. Of course, some left the cities. There are refugees in other countries and inside Ukraine also. Most of them left the cities in the Eastern part of Ukraine, Eastern part of Southern part of Ukraine. They left those cities. They are living in the Western part of Ukraine, which is much safer or in other countries: Poland, Romania, or in other European countries. The morale of the military seems to be high because Ukrainians are doing counteroffensive now. They are pushing back the Russians. Of course, the Russians have some very fortified lines. But despite these things, the Ukrainians are still continuing their attacks. They are pushing back the Russians. They wouldn’t be able to do sow without a strong morale.

Jacobsen: What about armaments coming to Russians from other countries if any and to Ukrainians from other countries?

Cernea: So, you ask me. 

Jacobsen: What about supporting armaments coming to Ukraine from other countries and if Russia is receiving any from any other countries?

Cernea: As I saw in the news, the Russians are trying to get some ammunition from North Korea. Of course, they receive those Iranian Shahed drones. Ukrainians are joking about this. They are calling those drones “Shahedov.” A mixture of the Iranian name of Shahed and Russian letters “ov”. Shahedov. Ukrainians, of course, they are supported by the democratic countries, by United States, by Europe, by Canada, and other democratic countries. Australia sent some drones. We hope all of the friends of democracy, let’s say, hope that Ukraine will prevail. They will be able to push back the Russians from all of the occupied, temporary occupied, territories. We all understand. I understand here very well. This war seems to be a long one. It will take a lot of sacrifices and a lot of resources in order to bring the victory of Ukraine over the Russians. 

Jacobsen: In spite of the assistance of armaments from the United States and other democratic countries to Ukraine, and from Iran and North Korea, potentially, to Russian forces, what are sort of the odds of other countries being dragged into this if it is, indeed, a long war? Where, there is an expansion of the war, where things can spiral out of control in a very negative way.

Cernea: It is a very good question. We do not want war. We Romanians, Poland, NATO countries, we do not want war. As we have seen, the Russians, do you want to tell me more?

Ukrainian Boy #1: Hello!

Cernea: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Ukrainian Boy #1: Hello!

Cernea: He gave me a present. Look.

Jacobsen: It is Ukrainian colours.

Cernea: A present from the Ukrainian children. 

Jacobsen: Do they speak English?

Cernea: Amazing.

[Three Ukrainian boys introduce themselves.]

Cernea: They are so kind. They gave me this Ukrainian flag. Look, this is Ukrainians. This is their spirit. They’re very friendly. They want to express their gratitude for any help because they see me as a foreigner who wants to help them. They did this gesture, amazing gesture.

Ukrainian Boy #1: A present of an auto-machine. [Hands piece of metal to Remus Cerna] Ukrainian car.

Cernea: Look, this is a fragment of a Ukrainian car that was hit by a Russian missile. So, they gave me also as a present. They gave me this as a present. This is their spirit, yes? Children, I didn’t ask them for anything. Maybe, I ask them to tell me something. But they tried to show me the horrors of the war. They are living under this pressure of the war and these horrors of the war. They can die every day because every day there are air raid alarms and the risk of bombardment. They live around here, this place. This place was bombed. These people were killed. This is their spirit. They saw me as a friend from another country. They wanted to help me to show the tragedy that they experienced here. So, it was an amazing moment. Thank you very much. 

Jacobsen: Thank you, and, hello, from Canada.

Ukrainian Boy #1: [Speaks at length in Ukrainian, explaining context of the missile attack.]

Cernea: So, I didn’t know what he said. Maybe, we can find someone who can translate for us. He said something about his father here at the second floor. Maybe, we can find someone who can help us translate. Thank you, thank you very much. Okay, tell me in Ukrainian. Do you speak English?

Ukrainian Man: No.

Cernea: He doesn’t understand me. If you want to say something, in Ukrainian. Speak in Ukrainian. 

Ukrainian Man:  [Speaks at length in Ukrainian.]

Cernea: So, there is also a child here with a car, and his family. Imagine this, yeah, in this tragedy and this war crimes, that you can see here. A family with a child, some very friendly children and other civilians that are walking around. It is almost surreal, but these things are happening here in Ukraine. That is why this is another reason. Let me tell, I see it as another reason to help Ukraine, to support these people that are facing these kind of terrorist attacks from Russia.

Jacobsen: We can see if we can get a translate to see what was precisely said, too.

Cernea: Yes, we will find someone.

Jacobsen: How are the contiguous countries The other countries bordering the other sides, not Russia, of Ukraine feeling about this war and the potential being dragged. You made some commentary earlier about that.

Cernea: I am not sure I understand. Please, please repeat the question. 

Jacobsen: Sure, so, what about the countries that are contiguous to Ukraine, not Russia, but bordering Ukraine? You made some commentary a bit before about the uneasiness of being dragged further into the…

Cernea: …yeah, we don’t want war. I don’t think Russia is so irresponsible to start war with NATO. NATO doesn’t want war with Russia. But we have to be strong. There were some Russian drones that hit Romania in the last few days. So, we have to have a strong response. Not in order to start a war with Russia, but in order to make Russia understand that will not stay like this… yeah, look, some photos taken soon after the bombardment. Can you see them?

Ukrainian Boy #1: [Speaks in Ukrainian].

Cernea: Yeah, terrible. So, they want to show to the world what happened here. They want to be seen. “I have a voice message in Telegram that records the moment of the flight to this house if you interested on this material. I can send it to you.” [Translated message from Ukrainian Boy #1] Yes, I am interested. He has some recording with the explosion. 

Jacobsen: That will be very helpful. 

Cernea: Are you on WhatsApp or Telegram?

Ukrainian Man: Telegram.

Cernea: So, I will give him my mobile phone, my number, in order to keep contact. Maybe, he will send me more things about what happened here. Let me give my mobile phone, my number. Let me type it. My name and magazine, Newsweek Romania. Send me a message, then I will reply to you. My telephone is here. I am busy here. But I will send you a reply as soon as possible. He has a recording with the noise of the explosion.

Jacobsen: Wow. 

Cernea: So, these are the realities here in Ukraine. Of course, the war is changing everything. It is changing the lives of the people. Some of them will experience some trauma. We have to be aware about this. As I understood from a psychologist. Usually, in wartime, about 25% of the people are affected by trauma, by different kinds of traumas. Having in mind that there are more than 40 million Ukrainians, the numbers will be high. So, that is why Ukraine will need support, of course, to win the war, but also to rebuild the country and to rebuild the inner self of the people, of many people who are affected by this war.

Jacobsen: Thank you.

Cernea: Thank you, take care. We will do some other interviews like this in the future.

Further Internal Resources (Chronological, yyyy/mm/dd):

Humanist

Humanists International, Russian Federation, Ukraine, and the United Nations (2024/01/08)

Personal

The Long Happenstance of Iceland and Copenhagen (2023/12/09)

Romanian

Remus Cernea on Independent War Correspondence in Ukraine (2023/08/25)

Zaporizhzhia Field Interview With Remus Cernea (2024/02/21)

War and Destruction With Remus Cernea (2024/02/22)

Ukrainian

Ms. Oleksandra Romantsova on Ukraine and Putin (2023/09/01)

Oleksandra Romantsova on Prigozhin and Amnesty International (2023/12/03)

Dr. Roman Nekoliak on International Human Rights and Ukraine (2023/12/23)

Sorina Kiev: Being a Restauranteur During Russo-Ukrainian War (2024/01/27)

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors co-copyright their material and may disseminate for their independent purposes.